Log in

View Full Version : Small Mafia Game Visor's Small Mafia Game [Concluded]



Pages : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 18:05
Right now I couldn't give a damn where someone is voting.

I do care what they're talking about and who. And I'm not impressed by the content so far.

Especially if they resist me on this point, I will bite down and never let go. I want to hear opinions on those slots that haven't been discussed.

If that's not cool, I will expend the remainder of my energy caring about this game going to war about it.

Montmorency
12-04-2016, 18:10
That all sounds like your typical scum device, but fine:

Most of the case against atheotes as I see it would be a continuation of my "stagnant" pursuit of the DP101 file, which you didn't feel was worth commenting on. Aside from atheotes not having to throw in much of himself - which on the long trend is in character as either alignment for him - and my idea, what do you think we have to talk about in regard to him? He may or may not be scum, but he's worth talking about - so is there anything else you can say?

novice
12-04-2016, 18:15
Talk us through why you lynched Dp, Pizza.

seireikhaan
12-04-2016, 18:44
Pizza, if you can't see a case on GH/Khaan by now especially after that terrible catch-up thing Khaan pulled out last night, I don't know what to say. That's why I'm suspicious of you, as much as anything. Khaan needs to die.
....Ow? Mind elaborating?

Vote: Al Sipsclair

I'm sticking to my guns for now. Sips has been mostly inactive and seems content to just try and rebound fire against himself.

seireikhaan
12-04-2016, 18:50
I can do that, but I thought we were lynching Pizza today?

Khaan refused to read Pizza in his big introductory post. Makes sense as Pizzas buddy.
Uh huh. I subbed in, noted that my role was under a high probability of immediate lynch, so naturally, as mafia, I refused to read my teammates.... Do you think I've never played this game before?

novice
12-04-2016, 19:00
So Pizza isn't your teammate then?

novice
12-04-2016, 19:19
There may be some uninterpretable votes that are not included in the voting history of these tallies.

Day 1 lynch tally:

Lynch votes
5 votes: Dp101 (GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725427#post2053725427), atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725497#post2053725497), Newyn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725601#post2053725601), Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725718#post2053725718), Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725961#post2053725961))
5 votes: Riedquat (Choxorn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725683#post2053725683), Stork (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725877#post2053725877), Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725885#post2053725885), Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725887#post2053725887), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725905#post2053725905))
2 votes: Montmorency (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725453#post2053725453), Scarlett Aria (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725669#post2053725669))
1 votes: Al Sipsclar (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725315#post2053725315))
1 votes: newyn (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725808#post2053725808))
1 votes: No Lynch (Riedquat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725623#post2053725623))

Voting history:
Stork

Stork

Montmorency

Al Sipsclar

Stork

El Barto

Dp101

Choxorn

Choxorn

Dp101

general hankerchief

Unvote

Unvote

Montmorency

Dp101

Atheotes

Choxorn

Dp101

Dp101

Newyn

No Lynch

Montmorency

Riedquat

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Dp101

Newyn

newyns

BSmith

newyn

Unvote

Choxorn

Choxorn

Choxorn

Riedquat

Dp101

Riedquat

Riedquat

Dp101

Unvote

Riedquat

Riedquat

Dp101

Day 2 lynch tally:

Lynch votes
5 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726291#post2053726291), Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726408#post2053726408), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726413#post2053726413), Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726514#post2053726514), Choxorn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726607#post2053726607))
5 votes: Choxorn (Newyn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726432#post2053726432), Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726461#post2053726461), Riedquat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053726581&viewfull=1#post2053726581), seireikhaan (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726576#post2053726576), atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726611#post2053726611))
1 votes: Newyn (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726229#post2053726229))
1 votes: Riedquat (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726567#post2053726567))

Not voting: Stork

Voting history:
Newyn

Newyn

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Montmorency

Stork

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Riedquat

Choxorn

Choxorn

Al Sipsclar

GeneralHankerchief

Riedquat

Choxorn

Choxorn

Unvote

GeneralHankerchief

Choxorn

novice
12-04-2016, 19:53
Confirmed villagers marked with strikethrough.


Newyn, Askthepizzaguy, GH/seireikhaan, atheotes voted as a block on a townie on both days.
Choxorn, Al Sipsclar, and Montmorency voted as a block on both days.
Day 1 was villager vs. villager so things are not quite as simple as they seem though.


Day 1 lynch tally:

Lynch votes
5 votes: Dp101 (GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725427#post2053725427), atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725497#post2053725497), Newyn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725601#post2053725601), Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725718#post2053725718), Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725961#post2053725961))
5 votes: Riedquat (Choxorn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725683#post2053725683), Stork (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725877#post2053725877), Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725885#post2053725885), Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725887#post2053725887), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725905#post2053725905))
2 votes: Montmorency (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725453#post2053725453), Scarlett Aria (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725669#post2053725669))
1 votes: Al Sipsclar (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725315#post2053725315))
1 votes: newyn (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725808#post2053725808))
1 votes: No Lynch (Riedquat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053725623#post2053725623))

Voting history:
Stork

Stork

Montmorency

Al Sipsclar

Stork

El Barto

Dp101

Choxorn

Choxorn

Dp101

general hankerchief

Unvote

Unvote

Montmorency

Dp101

Atheotes

Choxorn

Dp101

Dp101

Newyn

No Lynch

Montmorency

Riedquat

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Dp101

Newyn

newyns

BSmith

newyn

Unvote

Choxorn

Choxorn

Choxorn

Riedquat

Dp101

Riedquat

Riedquat

Dp101

Unvote

Riedquat

Riedquat

Dp101

Day 2 lynch tally:

Lynch votes
5 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726291#post2053726291), Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726408#post2053726408), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726413#post2053726413), Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726514#post2053726514), Choxorn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726607#post2053726607))
5 votes: Choxorn (Newyn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726432#post2053726432), Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726461#post2053726461), Riedquat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053726581&viewfull=1#post2053726581), seireikhaan (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726576#post2053726576), atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726611#post2053726611))
1 votes: Newyn (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726229#post2053726229))
1 votes: Riedquat (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726567#post2053726567))

Not voting: Stork

Voting history:
Newyn

Newyn

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Montmorency

Stork

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Riedquat

Choxorn

Choxorn

Al Sipsclar

GeneralHankerchief

Riedquat

Choxorn

Choxorn

Unvote

GeneralHankerchief

Choxorn

novice
12-04-2016, 19:56
Tally as of post 758:

Lynch votes
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726674#post2053726674), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726703#post2053726703))
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726678#post2053726678))
1 votes: atheotes (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726691#post2053726691))
1 votes: Al Sipsclair (seireikhaan (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726748#post2053726748))

Voting history:
Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

GeneralHankerchief

atheotes

Askthepizzaguy

Al Sipsclair

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 20:12
Key for this portion:
Blue- town
green- town lean
black- no town lean
orange- scum leanD1
5 votes: Dp101 (GeneralHankerchief/khaan, atheotes, Newyn, Askthepizzaguy, Renata)
5 votes: Riedquat/novice (Choxorn, Stork, Al Sipsclar, Dp101, Montmorency)
2 votes: Montmorency (El Barto, Scarlett Aria)
1 votes: Al Sipsclar (BSmith)
1 votes: newyn (Zack)
1 votes: No Lynch (Riedquat/novice)

D2
5 votes: GeneralHankerchief/khaan (Zack, Al Sipsclar, Montmorency, Renata, Choxorn)
5 votes: Choxorn (Newyn, Askthepizzaguy, Riedquat/novice, GH/seireikhaan, atheotes)
1 votes: Newyn (BSmith)
1 votes: Riedquat/novice (El Barto)
Not voting: Stork


=====================================

Key for this portion:
Blue- town
Green- Tied for the lynch, assume town for the sake or argument
Orange- everyone elseD1 history
Renata View Post
Stork

Montmorency View Post
Stork

Dp101 View Post
Montmorency

BSmith View Post
Al Sipsclar

Scarlett Aria View Post
Stork

El Barto View Post
El Barto

Choxorn View Post
Dp101

El Barto View Post
Choxorn

Dp101 View Post
Choxorn

GeneralHankerchief View Post
Dp101

Zack View Post
generalhankerchief

El Barto View Post
Montmorency

atheotes View Post
Dp101

Dp101 View Post
Atheotes

Montmorency View Post
Choxorn

Renata View Post
Dp101

Newyn View Post
Dp101

Dp101 View Post
Newyn

Riedquat View Post
No Lynch

Scarlett Aria View Post
Montmorency

Choxorn View Post
Riedquat

Zack View Post
Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy View Post
Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy View Post
Dp101

Renata View Post
Newyn

Zack View Post
newyn

Al Sipsclar View Post
BSmith

Zack View Post
newyn

Montmorency View Post
Choxorn

Dp101 View Post
Choxorn

Al Sipsclar View Post
Choxorn

Stork View Post
Riedquat

Al Sipsclar View Post
Dp101

Al Sipsclar View Post
Riedquat

Dp101 View Post
Riedquat

Renata View Post
Dp101

Montmorency View Post
Riedquat

Renata View Post
Riedquat

Renata View Post
Dp101
Al's vote for dp, then Riedquat, looks like he doesn't care which of them gets lynched as long as one of them does.
Note Riedquat's vote placement at end of day 1.

D2 History:
Renata View Post
Newyn

BSmith View Post
Newyn

Askthepizzaguy View Post
Al Sipsclar

Montmorency View Post
Al Sipsclar

Zack View Post
GeneralHankerchief

Montmorency View Post
GeneralHankerchief

El Barto View Post
Montmorency

El Barto View Post
Stork

Al Sipsclar View Post
GeneralHankerchief

Montmorency View Post
GeneralHankerchief

Choxorn View Post
Riedquat

Newyn View Post
Choxorn

Askthepizzaguy View Post
Choxorn

Riedquat View Post
Al Sipsclar

Renata View Post
GeneralHankerchief

El Barto View Post
Riedquat

seireikhaan View Post
Choxorn

Riedquat View Post
Choxorn

Choxorn View Post
GeneralHankerchief

atheotes View Post
Choxorn
The vote that jumps out at me here is atheotes' vote to tie it up at the very end of d2.

I may not have all the votes here, if the vote counter missed them. But these are the ones I can easily find.

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 20:14
Note for above post, that is me looking at the vote pattern with my previous leans. I'm not done doing analysis so those leans can change and do not represent finalized leans.

I just needed workspace so I can visualize it.

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 20:19
TLDR version

Riedquat's vote on d1 and behavior all game doesn't lend itself to a scum read from me.
GH is less clear, but because reasons, he's also a town read from me.
And our worst case scenario is when they're both townies, so we have to look at that. I also think it's more than 50% probable. Maybe a lot more.

Looking at that scenario, you see questionable vote patterns emerge.

I don't know what Al's doing this game with his vote, but it's not townie stuff. I also think the votes on Al came from townies this game, and weren't picked up on because it's tough to build a case for Al, and everyone was demoralized yesterday, and scums seemed to have a comfortable position, not needing to bus.

Unless Newyn was scum, in which case, they got pressure recently.

Atheotes' final vote on d2 is the clear winner of the worst vote of the game contest, I don't need an explanation or even context to see that. That's just clear from the vote tally.

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 20:20
You know, I'm not sold on Newyn, but I trust the folks who have voted for him. If you need a fourth, that's my fourth.

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 20:21
Half dead townies, half my strongest town reads are there.

I don't know if it's right, and I think Al and atheotes have worse vote patterns. But I'll vote with those people if that's my fourth option or it's him v me.

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 20:24
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (novice, Montmorency)
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Renata) <-----Remove votes from here
1 votes: atheotes (Askthepizzaguy) <--------Put votes here
1 votes: Al Sipsclair (seireikhaan) <--------Put votes here

Want to leave me dangling at the top, feel free. I just want those two as my counter wagons.

Montmorency
12-04-2016, 20:28
Re: Atheotes, if you take for argument's sake that Khaan/GH is town, then why would Atheotes' vote be scummy? If scum was chilling out and riding on a demoralized town then an EOD chaos vote is not a credible scum move. I could see him as scum, but not for this and not today. Otherwise, atheotes' pattern is indistinguishable from yours (only item is the D1 DP101 vote).

What's your analysis of Barto?

novice
12-04-2016, 20:32
Looking briefly at seireikhaan:




Al Sips: Low relative activity. Post 330 strikes some scum radar for me - types words, but none of it really means much. Some admitted hesitance is fine, though. Saying he'd leave someone who came out town as someone to end game strikes me as a bit perfect information syndrome-y. Saying people he doesn't like doesn't add anything. Revenge voted for GH today adding a fairly vindictive "Planning to lynch another townie today, General?". Seems PIS-y, as well as possibly hoping to out someone on his trail if mafia. Strong scum lean.

There is some "maaybe you have a point" to this, but I struggle to see how it adds up to a strong scum lean.



Vote: Al Sipsclair

I'm sticking to my guns for now. Sips has been mostly inactive and seems content to just try and rebound fire against himself.

Then you vote him today with an incredibly generic followup reason which doesn't even particularly apply. Al Sips actually said it would be a relief to be lynched.

In short, even without judging Al Sips alignment, the reasons for your vote are not very believable.

As for the incident which we are banned from discussing, I'd love to discuss it. But let's just say I think in the end it's not alignment indicative.

Renata, what are your (additional) reasons for voting Seireikhaan? The day one Dp101 push?

novice
12-04-2016, 20:35
Pizza, you're saying Al Sips is scum for his voting pattern, right? Any other reasons? What specifically about the votes makes him scum?

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 20:41
Re: Atheotes, if you take for argument's sake that Khaan/GH is town, then why would Atheotes' vote be scummy? If scum was chilling out and riding on a demoralized town then an EOD chaos vote is not a credible scum move. I could see him as scum, but not for this and not today. Otherwise, atheotes' pattern is indistinguishable from yours (only item is the D1 DP101 vote).

What's your analysis of Barto?

Atheotes' vote is scummy because he waited all round to make a move, then his move was to go against the 5 vote lead wagon on someone a lot of folks found scummy. The slot is probably town, and keeping a mislynch alive is a great idea. If the khaan slot dies, he looks better for voting for the not cleared choxorn, and if the slot doesn't die, he can blame others for driving the lynch and simply suggest that GH/khaan looked townie to him. It's defensible both ways, and both ways causes headaches for town.

Pattern is indistinguishable from mine if you are deliberately trying to not look for distinguishing characteristics. So you're either playing devil's advocate or you can be scum atp.

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 20:43
Pizza, you're saying Al Sips is scum for his voting pattern, right? Any other reasons? What specifically about the votes makes him scum?

That's the meat and potatoes of why he needs to be looked at. I can dress it up with cheese and onions, but what I gave you should be enough to do your own analysis. I haven't finished mine yet, I will need to iso everyone, starting with the folks I've named.

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 20:45
I also think that if Al would find it a relief to be lynched then we should give him his earned respite.

Sounds like he doesn't want to pretend to be town.

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 20:51
I've isoed everyone, and can't make my mind.
If I were mafia, I'd leave town DP to the endgame. I think DP might still be town, though. His wagon is probably mostly town, there might be a single scum there.
Don't like GH, but I never like him. Same with Monty.
Don't like Pizza, Quat, Chox.

I think the bottom line is 3 townies.
I think the second to bottom line contains another townie, possibly two, but I'm not feeling the "same with Monty."
If I'm mafia something that didn't happen this game. Kind of random declarations about dp's wagon which are generic.
I can't make up my mind = struggling to be a scum. Particularly given how he has five suspects. Sounds like he's found his mislynches.

Montmorency
12-04-2016, 20:54
Atheotes' vote is scummy because he waited all round to make a move, then his move was to go against the 5 vote lead wagon on someone a lot of folks found scummy. The slot is probably town, and keeping a mislynch alive is a great idea. If the khaan slot dies, he looks better for voting for the not cleared choxorn, and if the slot doesn't die, he can blame others for driving the lynch and simply suggest that GH/khaan looked townie to him. It's defensible both ways, and both ways causes headaches for town.

Is it more scummy than if he had made it earlier? Why? The same logic you present still applies, and in a way that draws less attention to himself.

In fact, atheotes gave his reasoning as finding nothing scummy about Khaan, so scum atheotes would gain nothing by playing that move later rather than earlier.

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 20:58
lolstork

Vote: Choxorn

Any claim would be good.

I'll follow Stork. Vote: Riedquat

GN
^
Shifts the blame to Stork while voting for quat, then asks for a claim and tells people he's leaving, thus preventing him from moving his vote even if there is a claim.

Given that Riedquat was his suspect, he made no positive effort to defend his vote with reasons why quat was scummy, and doesn't seem to even want to embrace his own suspicion on quat, preferring to pre-emptively defend his vote reasoning as following Stork.

It's not a slam dunk but the next day when votes arrive, his wagon stalls.

And we'd rather not talk about him yet, because reasons.

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 21:00
Is it more scummy than if he had made it earlier? Why? The same logic you present still applies, and in a way that draws less attention to himself.

Scummy people don't do scummy things, because it draws attention to themselves.

Nevermind the fact that I'm the only one discussing it and we'd better wait until tomorrow at the earliest to take a look at him.

Lol u monty.

Montmorency
12-04-2016, 21:01
Scummy people don't do scummy things, because it draws attention to themselves.

That's what I was getting at?


Nevermind the fact that I'm the only one discussing it and we'd better wait until tomorrow at the earliest to take a look at him.

What?

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 21:05
772 and 774 is the extent of where I stand on Al Sipsclar. He's got something like 19 posts of mostly empty space, the two posts I picked out are the problem.

Atheotes will take a bit longer to unpack, so I'll pick this up tomorrow.

Askthepizzaguy
12-04-2016, 21:08
I could see him as scum, but not for this and not today. Otherwise, atheotes' pattern is indistinguishable from yours (only item is the D1 DP101 vote).

"Not today".

Plus whitewashing the vote record as being indistinguishable.

You are quite distinguished yourself at this point.

Montmorency
12-04-2016, 21:10
So your top suspect is Al, ok. Any preliminary comments on your third suspect?

Montmorency
12-04-2016, 21:10
You are quite distinguished yourself at this point.

Why thank you.

Renata
12-04-2016, 23:30
11 left, 4? mafia would make tomorrow LYLO. Time to get in a lynch from each "group". We need to consolidate. I'm fine with Al Sips as one candidate. Pizza or Khaan as the other and why?

Zack
12-04-2016, 23:49
go town style comment

Renata
12-05-2016, 00:19
Newyn looks better to me on re-read, but I'm not convinced. There's very little to go on. Mostly, it's that the stork-wolf read was so incredibly pointless, if scum.

Renata
12-05-2016, 00:48
Khann's catch-up post, otherwise known as Exhibit A why I think he's mafia.


Oooookay, in summary, let's summarize:


Renata: Pretty friendly, much appreciated. Nice to see a recognizable face around. Could be the difference of 4-5 years, my advancing age, rampant alcoholism, or the PTSD of losing my Pokemon Moon nuzlocke team to the champion, but she seems a decent bit chattier than I remember for this early on. Reading the thread blind and knowing nothing about them, I liked the case against DP and would not fault people for voting for him. Mild town lead, seems a bit too chatty overall for mafia is my gut.

Stork: Something seems off here. Is english your first language? Tone and text are confusing me a bit. Tends to post in batches, which could be an excuse to appear visible without having to decide things at EOD. Discussion of Scarlett Aria kill is complete WIFOM and totally pointless as a defense. Mild, leaning to strong, scum lean.


Tangential comment -- Another Stork scum read, and I guess calls into question my lessening my scum read on Newyn for doing the exact same thing.


Askthepizzaguy: Like I can read this guy. My best chance at deciphering pizza is with LYLO shenanigans. Next.

El Barto: Like I can read this guy either. Next.

Bsmith: Currently afk-ish in the Phillipines on business. Try to enjoy yourself if you can, and watch out for army majors. :bow: Anyways, not a ton to read on. Early joke on Al Sips, who I have some suspicion towards, raises a small flag, but that's about as much as I have. Slightly scum lean.


Monty: Both his original case and wanting to save DP(who he apparently can read better than me) seem authentic in my opinion. Could be a case of maf trying to build cred by "trying" to save a doomed townie, but that seems less likely(maybe 30-40% chance) than he simply had a better read on DP than those not familiar with him. That said, I'll need some better explanation on the vote for GH/me for being "polished". GH has played the game, strictly speaking, longer on the .org here any any present, so polish is.... bad? Clarification? Could be looking to get on a convenient wagon. Unsure lean, d1 seems likelier town, d2 confusing that.


Al Sips: Low relative activity. Post 330 strikes some scum radar for me - types words, but none of it really means much. Some admitted hesitance is fine, though. Saying he'd leave someone who came out town as someone to end game strikes me as a bit perfect information syndrome-y. Saying people he doesn't like doesn't add anything. Revenge voted for GH today adding a fairly vindictive "Planning to lynch another townie today, General?". Seems PIS-y, as well as possibly hoping to out someone on his trail if mafia. Strong scum lean.

While I can see Al Sips as scum, I cannot see Al Sips as scum for almost any of these reasons. That raises a red flag for me. It's the opposite of a mind-meld.



Zack: Decent enough case on Newynn on day 1 and pursued it appropriately if he felt decently about it. I tend to agree with most of the posts he's made except on possible Stork Scum which might be a troubling sign. Zack explanation for current day's vote? Decent town lean.

I feel like 'decent town lean' for someone who's voting on you requires a little more self-convincing than this. At least there should be a reason. Explanation? It was clear enough. He didn't like a few of GH's comments, right before he voted. This is a weirdly unfocused question, under the circumstances.


Choxorn: Lurking, relatively speaking. Ironically asks of Riedquat : "Did you just think you'd try to get a post in and make it look like you were doing something?" While himself being quite low poster. Gave a basic recount of his accusation of Riedquat's D1 post on D2, but it feels to me like the kind of thing I do on occasion as mafia where I just latch on to one bad post from someone relativley under the radar to get "free" votes off. Strong scum lean.

Strong scum lean on a guy who's done basically nothing out of the ordinary for him and nothing different from what half the game has done at least once so far at that? And it just so happens to be a strong scum lean on the guy he needs to vote to self-pres? (And who happened to be town at that, something I was actually expecting after reading this post!) This is the 'read' that made me go 'yeah right' last night.


Newyn: Gave a weird read on the first page which he didn't follow on, and kinda lazed into a DP vote by the end of D1. Low-ish on activity. On the surface, seems scummy, but the reads cannot have been that serious so early in the first day, which makes me suspicious of those latching onto this case. Was correct in his argument with Stork about night choice kill and the wolf discussion. Decent town lean.

Another red flag. "Those latching onto this case" include me, Zack, Bsmith. That's it. He's given town reads to me and to Zack. So who's the 'those'? There is no 'those',is there? It just sounded logical in your head.


Atheotes: Early discussion of NK choice - possible maf trying to create false lead on his own kill? Hmm... Tone reads town, however, decent convicition in lynch choice. Read - null.

Riedquat: Goof vote on day 1, THE HORROR. On the surface, seems clearly scummy and lackadaisical. Well, one of those is true at least. Post asking himself to by lynched on day 2 is too much. Too aggressively off the wall. Strong town lean.

But it's not too much for Al Sips, who did the same exact thing?

This is a fairly well put together post in places, but the rest is a three-alarm fire.

BSmith
12-05-2016, 01:05
vote: khaan

Renata
12-05-2016, 01:10
I'm not so sure you or I should do that. I have a bad feeling about the split votes thus far. But I guess there's still tomorrow.

Renata
12-05-2016, 01:30
I haven't seen anything that makes me push any of my town reads away from being town.

On the other hand, I don't have a strong suspect at the moment. Renata's case on Newyn seems fine.

I'll add pressure to Al Sipsclar until I can come up with a reason not to, or I find something stronger.

Vote: Al Sipsclar

This post continues to bother me, even on its own. I've seen the pattern too often from scum. "Here's a case on X, now watch me vote Y." For 'pressure', at that.

El Barto
12-05-2016, 01:40
That's fine, I'm glad someone can read Zack, because I cannot.
It's just a four-letter word.

Re: Atheotes, if you take for argument's sake that Khaan/GH is town, then why would Atheotes' vote be scummy? If scum was chilling out and riding on a demoralized town then an EOD chaos vote is not a credible scum move. I could see him as scum, but not for this and not today. Otherwise, atheotes' pattern is indistinguishable from yours (only item is the D1 DP101 vote).

What's your analysis of Barto?
‘Get off it.’ :martass:

i have never seen Khaan post so much! I did not think GH was scummy. and nothing yet from Khaan to change my mind.
Vote: Choxorn

I note there's no reason given that choxorn is scummy. :inquisitive:

Nope. Dont find him towny either.
:stare:

Renata
12-05-2016, 01:52
Renata do me a favor and drop all the bullshit and start playing the game in a somewhat straightforward manner.

Just a word to the wise, Pizza. When you say shit like this you lose me.

Renata
12-05-2016, 01:59
El Barto, opinons on Al Sips, Khaan, Pizza.

El Barto
12-05-2016, 02:11
While I re-read their particular posts, (btw whom did seireikhaan replace? General Hankerchief?) why did you switch your vote off pizza early in the day? There's no hammer here.

El Barto
12-05-2016, 02:34
The problem when I play like this, reading a hundred posts or two in one go, is that I get sensations rather than individualised reads. I've been offline for 48 RL hours.

So, you asked and I skim through the thread:

Al Sipsclar and seireikhaan: one votes for the other, (is #754 'khaan's reason for his vote is townie-sounding, #711 from novice is still a good one, I'm not sure whether 'khaan convinces me with his reply in #756) I can't see them being scum together if they do that. Where is Al? I could go with lynching an unproductive townie who hardly posts at all, but hey, that would still be a townie getting lynched and they sound like a circular firing squad.

ATPG: As of posts #661, 662 and 664 I was having a bit of a beef with him and he chose to ignore me from then on rather than convince me that I was wrong. And he's accusing me of being scum on post #760 where he does his townie act.

Refer to my post above, I'm still itchy about Monty, but he'll probably just continue to tell me to ‘get off it’. Policy lynch?

Renata
12-05-2016, 02:36
To see if novice was going to be willing to vote GH/Khaan, because I think it possible they're teammates. He wasn't willing. Also because Khaan is a stronger scum read right now than Pizza is.

El Barto
12-05-2016, 02:41
novice/khaan…? Coooould be, so you say #711 and the other posts I mention are them throwing each other softballs? :creep:

Well, I'll wait for you to read #792 first.

Renata
12-05-2016, 02:44
Al Sipsclar and seireikhaan: one votes for the other, (is #754 'khaan's reason for his vote is townie-sounding, #711 from novice is still a good one, I'm not sure whether 'khaan convinces me with his reply in #756) I can't see them being scum together if they do that. Where is Al? I could go with lynching an unproductive townie who hardly posts at all, but hey, that would still be a townie getting lynched and they sound like a circular firing squad.

ATPG: As of posts #661, 662 and 664 I was having a bit of a beef with him and he chose to ignore me from then on rather than convince me that I was wrong. And he's accusing me of being scum on post #760 where he does his townie act.

Refer to my post above, I'm still itchy about Monty, but he'll probably just continue to tell me to ‘get off it’. Policy lynch?

I'm pretty sure I came up with the same conclusion about Al Sips and Khaan not being mafia together, can't quite remember.

Pizza ignored you, played "don't be dumb" with me, heck if I know what it all means except that I would prefer it means he's mafia.

Policy lynch Monty? Sure, El Barto. You do you.

Renata
12-05-2016, 02:46
novice/khaan…? Coooould be, so you say #711 and the other posts I mention are them throwing each other softballs? :creep:

Well, I'll wait for you to read #792 first.

Oh, heck if I even know anymore. I could be talking out my ass.

Renata
12-05-2016, 02:47
Pretty sure I get shot tonight regardless, so it would be nice to have something right somewhere for posterity.

El Barto
12-05-2016, 02:51
Your ass and posterity… OK.

I'm pretty sure I came up with the same conclusion about Al Sips and Khaan not being mafia together, can't quite remember.
I was only looking through their posts, nobody else's.

Pizza ignored you, played "don't be dumb" with me, heck if I know what it all means except that I would prefer it means he's mafia.
He did it two games ago when I was Flexo the unkillable proven townie.

Policy lynch Monty? Sure, El Barto. You do you.
Lacking better leads and proper sleeping hours, vote: Montmorency.

BSmith
12-05-2016, 02:52
I'm not so sure you or I should do that. I have a bad feeling about the split votes thus far. But I guess there's still tomorrow.

I should be around. Heck I might even be able to be online at/around day end the next couple of phases.

Renata
12-05-2016, 02:55
Lacking better leads and proper sleeping hours, vote: Montmorency.

You know I said you do you and all but you do realize it's getting close to LYLO and all and oh never mind.

Renata
12-05-2016, 02:56
I should be around. Heck I might even be able to be online at/around day end the next couple of phases.

That'd be cool. I like having somebody to talk to.

El Barto
12-05-2016, 03:00
You know I said you do you and all but you do realize it's getting close to LYLO and all and oh never mind.
:stare: Are you going to tell me to get off it next?

Renata
12-05-2016, 03:15
Get. off. the road. Before you get hit by a car. I worry about you.

El Barto
12-05-2016, 03:16
So, this is probably my last effort tonight:

a) why is 'khaan scummier than Pizza? You've said Pizza's lost you, I'm missing something from your analyisis of his catch-up post, I think. I should reread it tomorrow.

b) why're you gonna get shot tonight?

El Barto
12-05-2016, 03:17
Get. off. the road. Before you get hit by a car. I worry about you.
xpost! Yeah, I'm closing shop for tonight. We still have over 24 hours left, right?

El Barto
12-05-2016, 03:18
Right now I couldn't give a damn where someone is voting.
!!!!!

(final read of the night)

Renata
12-05-2016, 03:20
Yeah, we do. I should get some sleep as well.

I don't know about Pizza; it's a couple of posts that hit me as a scummy, none that hit me as townie, and a whole lot of depressing.

I think I'm next in line after Stork as most obvious town. Unless they shoot for power roles and figure I'm not one, or try some weird WIFOM or something.

Renata
12-05-2016, 03:22
Oh, by "lose me" I meant that's the point where I stop wanting to consider the possibility that Pizza is town.

El Barto
12-05-2016, 03:24
Yeah, I know, I read it as you claiming he lost your support.

Renata
12-05-2016, 03:34
Oh, regarding Monty, if you have something besides 'get off me' to point to, I'll look at it. I may as well; I'm suspicious of everybody else. One of those games.

Al Sipsclar
12-05-2016, 04:14
Vote: Askthepizzaguy

Not going to respond to Pizza's accusations. I've lived an empty space and I'll die the empty space. I don't believe a town Pizza would not read me as town this game.

Al Sipsclar
12-05-2016, 04:26
i have never seen Khaan post so much! I did not think GH was scummy. and nothing yet from Khaan to change my mind.
Vote: Choxorn

This was a terrible way to clear khaan and condemn choxorn.

I can also lynch khaan or atheotes today, maybe novice, too.
Then Newyn or Monty or El Barto.
BSmith and Renata probably never, though I'm going to tinfoil about BSmith.

novice
12-05-2016, 08:39
To see if novice was going to be willing to vote GH/Khaan, because I think it possible they're teammates.
We're not, but we can revisit that if Khaan flips scum.


Khaan is a stronger scum read right now than Pizza is.

Reading your Exhibit A (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053726808&viewfull=1#post2053726808) post I tend to agree. It still feels like not lynching Pizza while there is support for it is a mistake though. I agree that Renata is top townie currently, and if she's scum she's very confident in so off-handedly claiming that. So I guess the onus is on you, Renata. If you insist on Khaan as today's lynch I'll sheep you.

Vote: Khaan


Lacking better leads and proper sleeping hours, vote: Montmorency.
That's not very productive.


This was a terrible way to clear khaan and condemn choxorn.
Very true. As Pizza said, that is undoubtedly the worst vote of the game.*

*OK I guess my/Riedquat's Choxorn vote is bad also, but as a neutral observer it was Atheotes' vote that I noticed.

novice
12-05-2016, 09:04
Tally as of post 813:

Lynch votes
3 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726678#post2053726678), BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726809#post2053726809), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726847#post2053726847))
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726703#post2053726703), Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726843#post2053726843))
1 votes: atheotes (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726691#post2053726691))
1 votes: Al Sipsclair (seireikhaan (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726748#post2053726748))
1 votes: Montmorency (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726824#post2053726824))

Voting history:
Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

GeneralHankerchief

atheotes

Askthepizzaguy

Al Sipsclair

GeneralHankerchief

Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

GeneralHankerchief

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 10:38
Worst case, Khaan is town, Pizza kills Renata tonight, takes control. Pizza has little to say about Khaan, and he's preparing a soft landing for himself tomorrow.

Pizza-atheotes, or Pizza-Khaan? Pizza shouldn't ignore a partner while under heavy suspicion himself, no less putting up a third partner for the lynch. I think any Al Sipsclar scum pairings with Pizza are much less likely.

I'm going to venture Barto as a general third-candidate for scum team.

Unvote: Pizza

Vote: Khaan

I'll finish what I started, but if the wagon collapses then I hope it doesn't migrate to Al Sipclar over Pizza.

Newyn
12-05-2016, 11:11
Vote: Aetheotes
Sheeping Pizza for better or worse. I've been distracted too much by other stuff lately to pay too much attention.

Renata
12-05-2016, 12:17
Worst case, Khaan is town, Pizza kills Renata tonight, takes control. Pizza has little to say about Khaan, and he's preparing a soft landing for himself tomorrow.

Pizza-atheotes, or Pizza-Khaan? Pizza shouldn't ignore a partner while under heavy suspicion himself, no less putting up a third partner for the lynch. I think any Al Sipsclar scum pairings with Pizza are much less likely.

I'm going to venture Barto as a general third-candidate for scum team.

Unvote: Pizza

Vote: Khaan

I'll finish what I started, but if the wagon collapses then I hope it doesn't migrate to Al Sipclar over Pizza.

If Khaan's lynched and is town, where do you go next? If Pizza's lynched and is town, where next?

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 12:30
Pizza-Khaan-atheotes-Al Sips needs to be narrowed down.

I'm not voting for khaan.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 12:33
This was a terrible way to clear khaan and condemn choxorn.

I can also lynch khaan or atheotes today, maybe novice, too.
Then Newyn or Monty or El Barto.
BSmith and Renata probably never, though I'm going to tinfoil about BSmith.

Al would be able to lynch atheotes today if he were to vote with me. But that's not happening.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 12:39
I didn't create my suspects as convenient scapegoats I think I'd be able to lynch today. There's clear resistance to votes landing on these folks.

I can't convince my townies to vote there, so you guys better hope I'm wrong.

Renata
12-05-2016, 12:47
At this point I just want to end this game and move on. It's not been a good vibe for me.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 12:54
At this point I just want to end this game and move on. It's not been a good vibe for me.

I believe that lynching khaan will hasten that end, yes.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 12:59
Once again atheotes is just skating through the round. You want a clear alternative to khaan, it has to be him.

Renata
12-05-2016, 13:00
I don't know if we get told if it's LYLO, but could it be right now? If four mafia, we lynch today, kill at night, 8 left. That's parity. Three mislynches sounds a bit low, though, even with what appears to be a failed vig shot.

If it's three, then there's one more shot at it. I could almost see Monty teeing up Pizza for tomorrow knowing it would win the game -- realistically I think we need to vote in a completely different suspicion group tomorrow if today's lynch doesn't work out. Tell me your opinion on this Monty.

With even numbers we could also no-lynch today, though I don't see much benefit to that beyond likely leaving me out of the decision making.

Renata
12-05-2016, 13:03
I believe that lynching khaan will hasten that end, yes.

I can't trust you, is the problem. You're basing your entire defense of khaan -- without actually examining his posts at all, mind -- on meta that I can't follow myself and must therefore take your word for. And you're being manipulative toward me in a way I'd vastly prefer to believe is a scum ploy.

Renata
12-05-2016, 13:06
Monty, do you hear me? You don't get to lynch Pizza tomorrow if Khaan doesn't work out. Either today, or not at all (unless khaan is lynched and comes up scum, of course).

So make your choice, who do you want more?

Renata
12-05-2016, 13:08
vote: Atheotes

I'm taking myself out of the picture for a while. Sick of people laying off their votes on me.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 13:10
If Khaan's lynched and is town, where do you go next? If Pizza's lynched and is town, where next?

You, atheotes and Newyn/Bart. If there are three scum - and I don't think there are 2 or 4 - then tomorrow should begin LYLO, so it either has to work out or take a totally different approach starting now...


I could almost see Monty teeing up Pizza for tomorrow knowing it would win the game

Is novice my partner in that case?


With even numbers we could also no-lynch today,

It would have to be unanimous.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 13:15
If you lynch atheotes today and he is town, then I am certain it's Pizza-Khaan, and Visor have mercy tomorrow. Together those two could lynch anyone they like.

One of Pizza and Khaan have to resolve today, unless I'm taken out of the picture and whoever is left sets a new agenda.

Renata
12-05-2016, 13:15
Those are your next options either way?

Renata
12-05-2016, 13:17
Only thing I don't want to see is Pizza-town then Khaan or the reverse. I should probably analyze wolf-wolf possibilities more than I have, but I'm not going to. Right now, while I could see a team involving one of them and not the other, I think we're better off not to try to double down on the Pizza/Khaan idea if wrong the first time.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 13:19
If it really comes down to it, I will fight you of course.

Renata
12-05-2016, 13:23
Meaning what exactly? In the hypothetical world where we're both alive tomorrow, Khaan is lynched and is town, you'd still go after Pizza? I thought you just implied the opposite.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 13:26
I thought you just implied the opposite.

No?


In the hypothetical world where we're both alive tomorrow, Khaan is lynched and is town, you'd still go after Pizza?

If you're doing wrong in general. It seems by now we don't have any overlap of standalone candidates.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 13:27
If we ignore obvious examples of overlap, such as Al agreeing that atheotes is scum but voting elsewhere, for example.

Novice agreeing atheotes is scum but voting elsewhere.

Sure, there's no overlap.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 13:34
In the hypothetical world where we're both alive tomorrow

Let's get deeper and introduce the NK (assume one) into the equation. Here are some thoughts:

Assume in the meta-scenario that Renata, Montmorency, and Pizza do not get killed.

Barto - Pizza would kill, otherwise null
Novice - null
Newyn - null
Al Sipsclar - Pizza wouldn't kill, you or others would
BSmith - null
Atheotes - Pizza might kill, you more likely



If we ignore obvious examples of overlap

I was speaking between myself and Renata, sir.


Novice agreeing atheotes is scum but voting elsewhere.

Don't whitewash novice's record.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 13:36
How is that whitewashing? Do you know what the word means?

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 13:37
How is that whitewashing? Do you know what the word means?

You think El Barto is scum, yet you won't vote or even discuss him. How's that? That's the sort of thing you're doing.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 13:43
You think El Barto is scum, yet you won't vote or even discuss him. How's that? That's the sort of thing you're doing.

He's falling off my radar at this point. He's been pressing you for half the game and you're the leading contender for atheotes' scum buddy.

But feel free to change the subject.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 13:43
and you're the leading contender for atheotes' scum buddy.

:laugh4:


But feel free to change the subject.

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 13:47
I'd put atheotes, Monty, and Al in a shipping container and set it on fire.

I'd ship them so hard.

Here, have a smiley.

:heart:

Renata
12-05-2016, 14:08
^ That right there is why I don't want you to get away with voting Pizza/Khaan tomorrow if Khaan/Pizza is lynched today and not scum, Monty. Are we at least clear on that? I still can't tell.

Renata
12-05-2016, 14:09
So pick your honest best guess target today and I'll sheep you. Just be right.

Renata
12-05-2016, 14:10
(No pressure. But I'm not going to be here tomorrow to deal with the fallout if it's my call and I'm wrong.)

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 14:13
You may need to clarify which alignment you are reading me as, because as obvious as it may seem given your current vote, there's plenty in your posts which can be interpreted the other way.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 14:13
That right there is why I don't want you to get away with voting Pizza/Khaan tomorrow if Khaan/Pizza is lynched today and not scum, Monty.

I understand, but I can hardly tell you that I will abandon the case, especially if Pizza turns around and calls for a crusade against me.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 14:19
I understand, but I can hardly tell you that I will abandon the case, especially if Pizza turns around and calls for a crusade against me.

Are you going to lynch atheotes tomorrow? I don't think I can rely on you to do that regardless of your alignment.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 14:21
Are you going to lynch atheotes tomorrow?

Would you be willing to die today to see atheotes lynched?

What if, heh, atheotes claims a scan or track result on you?

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 14:24
In response to Renata about who tomorrow if khaan is town, you said:

You, atheotes and Newyn/Bart.

We don't have 4 lynches left.

And if you're saying you'd go for atheotes tomorrow, what's the difference? Why is it so important that we not discuss atheotes "today". "Not today". Your words.

Why is tomorrow better?

If you're willing to go khaan ---> atheotes, why aren't you willing to look at atheotes ----> Khaan?

My guess is because khaan's a critical mislynch that may not happen if it doesn't happen today. But enlighten me.

Renata
12-05-2016, 14:24
I understand, but I can hardly tell you that I will abandon the case, especially if Pizza turns around and calls for a crusade against me.

I would never expect you not to fight back if he goes after you directly. What I don't want to see is "Pizza's scum group" -- the people he's got on his scum list -- neglected at LYLO if the current idea doesn't work out. I think we need to shift gears at that point. I've all but given up on reading people in this game; I'm thinking more strategy, and who's mafia with who.

Renata
12-05-2016, 14:26
You may need to clarify which alignment you are reading me as, because as obvious as it may seem given your current vote, there's plenty in your posts which can be interpreted the other way.

See my response to Monty.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 14:29
In response to Renata about who tomorrow if khaan is town, you said:


We don't have 4 lynches left.

And if you're saying you'd go for atheotes tomorrow, what's the difference? Why is it so important that we not discuss atheotes "today". "Not today". Your words.

Why is tomorrow better?

If you're willing to go khaan ---> atheotes, why aren't you willing to look at atheotes ----> Khaan?

My guess is because khaan's a critical mislynch that may not happen if it doesn't happen today. But enlighten me.

I said that in response to you and Khaan being town. IOW this is the flip we see following the words "MAFIA VICTORY", in that case of you and Khaan being town.


"Not today". Your words.

Because today is you or Khaan, and my thoughts on atheotes, as I described, depend partially on the flip.


If you're willing to go khaan ---> atheotes, why aren't you willing to look at atheotes ----> Khaan?

I believe it more likely that atheotes is scum if khaan is town, so it isn't that straightforward.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 14:29
Would you be willing to die today to see atheotes lynched?

What if, heh, atheotes claims a scan or track result on you?

I don't need reminders of my failures. But if I were "willing to die" I'd still have no guarantees anyone follows up.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 14:31
I believe it more likely that atheotes is scum if khaan is town, so it isn't that straightforward.

Yeah I think it's pretty likely myself, and the order matters. Lynching a scum can't be undone. Promising to lynch a scum tomorrow can be undone.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 14:32
I couldn't even clear your slot atp if you lynch atheotes and he flips scum, based on everything you've said today.

But if you are town it is the only way.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 14:32
Promising to lynch a scum tomorrow can be undone.

I'm not promising.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 14:34
I'm not promising.

No kidding.

It's w/v wagons at the moment, and you're on the wrong side of the aisle.

Renata
12-05-2016, 14:34
I keep waiting for a claim of the vig shot, at least. Nobody seems to want to claim it. Curious.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 14:43
I keep waiting for a claim of the vig shot, at least. Nobody seems to want to claim it. Curious.

If you hum a few bars I can probably fake it.

Renata
12-05-2016, 14:46
It goes something like "I killed Zack, oh yes I did, because I'm totally a townie and that was totally the most useful shot to take, oh yes it was."

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 14:48
I've been apologizing for it practically all round.

Renata
12-05-2016, 14:52
For realz? Well, then. I'm not sure what to ask, now.

Renata
12-05-2016, 14:53
Is there anyone reading you as town, Pizza?

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 14:55
Is there anyone reading you as town, Pizza?

Not even you.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 14:59
I have worse news for you, that was my only shot.

Renata
12-05-2016, 15:01
I know that much, or guessed. That's not what I can't figure out.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 15:12
Zack said something similar to what's bugging me about Al Sipsclar this round.

Al said that if I'm town, I should be able to read him as town here.

Here's what's wrong with that: Al Sipsclar is not someone who self-clears by their own posts, ever. He's usually one of the smallest posters, and when he does post, it's very fluffy and null. Similar to El Barto. He's not someone who gets widely town read, least of all by me. I literally can't remember the last time I ever town-read Al Sipsclar where we were both townies.

Zack made the same kind of nonsense assertion. If anything, all I do with Zack is mislynch him, early. It makes absolutely no sense to declare that. And you ISO either one, what is so amazingly townie that can be found there?

You'll have to explain it to me, because regardless of how people feel after the fact, I cannot read him until I see his card. And I don't like being told how it's so obvious that someone is town that I should be able to figure it out, no explanation ever given as to why that is.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 15:12
NETA

El Barto being fluffy and null, not a low poster.

Renata
12-05-2016, 15:18
Nah, I was pissed because Zack was not in my personal shit list, not that he couldn't hypothetically be on anyone's. Maybe you should ask Khaan this question, seeing as he had Zack as townie despite apparently having no idea why Zack had voted for him.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 15:23
Nah, I was pissed because Zack was not in my personal shit list, not that he couldn't hypothetically be on anyone's. Maybe you should ask Khaan this question, seeing as he had Zack as townie despite apparently having no idea why Zack had voted for him.

I'll admit it's a relevant thing to ask khaan.

I still think that slot is town. Khaan didn't necessarily do anything to earn it, but it is what it is.

I don't want to vote there. I think the team is Al-theotes with a generous dollop of Monty. But I got nothing to back it up except their vote pattern, and no one has a good one. I just think some people managed to get town reads out of this mess in spite of that-

Riedquat slot not self pres on d1

And who was pushing GH.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 15:24
If khaan is scum then I am having officially the worst game of my life. I don't even want to be that wrong, but what are my options here? To vote my town reads?

novice
12-05-2016, 16:05
Why don't you talk your town reads through why you lynched Dp101.



The thing is, I expect it will be difficult to get Pizza lynched, so I'm reluctant to get sidetracked.Lol this.

Case in point:

Lynch votes
3 votes: GeneralHankerchief (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726809#post2053726809), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726847#post2053726847), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726855#post2053726855))
2 votes: atheotes (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726691#post2053726691), Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726871#post2053726871))
1 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726843#post2053726843))
1 votes: Al Sipsclair (seireikhaan (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726748#post2053726748))
1 votes: Montmorency (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726824#post2053726824))
1 votes: Aetheotes (Newyn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play/page11showthread.php?152287&p=2053726857#post2053726857))

Voting history:
Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

GeneralHankerchief

atheotes

Askthepizzaguy

Al Sipsclair

GeneralHankerchief

Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Aetheotes

Atheotes

Renata
12-05-2016, 16:13
I've just ISO'd atheotes, and damn, but there is nothing there.

Below some interactions with Monty from day one, since those need explained in a Monty/atheotes w/w world.

Bottom post is the only one that pings at all, and it's for the shallowest of reasons. Strategy or no strategy, I don't know I can keep my vote here.


I dont think these "changes in circumstance" explain his behavior.
Atleast i am voting my strongest scum read...


Well, scum monty would know he is town. and it was an easy defense. So he could get cred for trying to save a townie.


Looks like you are convinced that Choxorn and GH are scum...
What your take on Renata?


So you believe that scum got rid of Dp. I guess you will be going after the people on that wagon.


i have never seen Khaan post so much! I did not think GH was scummy. and nothing yet from Khaan to change my mind.
Vote: Choxorn

novice
12-05-2016, 16:15
I've been apologizing for it practically all round.


I have worse news for you, that was my only shot.

This is not a joke?

Renata
12-05-2016, 16:18
By the way, regarding Pizza's vig claim in a roundabout way:

I do have a bulletproof vest. Single use, have to guess properly when to use it. I didn't have it at start of game, and my assumption was a power role had given it to me. (That may have been an incorrect assumption. I'm asking.) If a power role gave Pizza the vig power similarly, then using the vig says nothing about Pizza. If the vig power was in the game from the start like a conventional power, then barring CC today the only person who could have had it other than him is Stork, who died last night. (I don't see mafia killing Zack.) Stork, unfortunately, went silent after the GH thing, and I don't know what his reads were.

But Pizza, I'm not liking the atheotes idea right now.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 16:18
This is not a joke?

No.

Re: dp101, read these posts and I'll answer follow-up questions you may have.

Go to this post: 210
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053725705&viewfull=1#post2053725705

Read through 225.
Picks up again 242.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053725747&viewfull=1#post2053725747

Continues on there for a little bit.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 16:28
But Pizza, I'm not liking the atheotes idea right now.

Al Sipsclar, in any universe where atheotes is town.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 16:31
If you're looking to resolve khaan first, I have seen nothing indicating he's scum. I don't think we lynch there.

But if you're worried about blame or the game going to slop if we lynch there and he's lynched and he's town, I'm more than sure I'm going to get the lions share of the blame. And if the game ends sooner, so be it. We're just guessing.

novice
12-05-2016, 16:33
I didn't believe in your end of that discussion, Pizza. It read to me like you just digging up a plausible reason for voting Dp, which the poor puppy obviously couldn't refute.


I don't know why he'd be looking for reasons to town read me, least of all ones that don't follow.
Of course he's looking for reasons to town read you, that's how he operates, by looking for townies to follow. And he never posts anything without qualifying it.


I have to check your thought process and see if it makes any kind of sense from a no information standpoint.

This was where you left it, without every letting us know if it did make sense or not.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 16:33
I laid out the reasons, but it's two posts because the others are basically a null set. It's also buried and garnered no interest from anyone but khaan and Al himself.

novice
12-05-2016, 16:36
You know how easy it is to push Dp into a web of contradictions, I did it to him in our first game here, where both he and I were town. So when the first thing you did in this game was push Dp, I was not impressed.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 16:36
I didn't believe in your end of that discussion, Pizza. It read to me like you just digging up a plausible reason for voting Dp, which the poor puppy obviously couldn't refute.

Of course he's looking for reasons to town read you, that's how he operates, by looking for townies to follow. And he never posts anything without qualifying it.

This was where you left it, without every letting us know if it did make sense or not.

That was my response to his question about why I was questioning his motives. I had already decided I didn't trust them.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 16:36
So you claim a 1-shot vig. Way to up the ante.


Al Sipsclar, in any universe where atheotes is town.

if atheotes is town, and you and Renata are town, and Khaan is town, and let's add novice for good measure, then that leaves Al-Monty-Barto-BSmith-Newyn, and I doubt you would consider BSmith in light of the other targets.

Your claim succeeds in making me more hesitant to lynch you, but now there is no way I'm backing down from Khaan. One way or another you're protecting him and if both you and Khaan survive through tomorrow it's game over. You'll be shielded by the claim, and Khaan's moment will have passed. You're ranging to lynch me, and all that atheotes-Barto-Al Sipsclar stuff is just filler or primer to seal the deal tomorrow.

novice
12-05-2016, 16:37
I laid out the reasons, but it's two posts because the others are basically a null set. It's also buried and garnered no interest from anyone but khaan and Al himself.

Not quite sure what this is in response to.

Anyway I have to run. To be continued.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 16:38
You know how easy it is to push Dp into a web of contradictions, I did it to him in our first game here, where both he and I were town. So when the first thing you did in this game was push Dp, I was not impressed.

After his rampant paranoia about me following 2 scum games vanished without a trace, I wasn't. It looked like a poor attempt at pocketing.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 16:39
Not quite sure what this is in response to.

Anyway I have to run. To be continued.

If you're suspecting me and you ask me no questions that I can answer, I can't help you correct your mistake.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 16:40
I laid out the reasons, but it's two posts because the others are basically a null set. It's also buried and garnered no interest from anyone but khaan and Al himself.

This was directed at Renata / anyone else hesitant to lynch atheotes and has a desire to lynch khaan.

Renata
12-05-2016, 16:45
Pizza did you have the vig power from start of game, or did you get it later?

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 16:49
Pizza did you have the vig power from start of game, or did you get it later?

I had it from the start of play. Didn't use it night 1, because that's too early to shoot a single shot. Gotta narrow things down a bit more than that.

Didn't want to wait until N3 because I could have been dead by then.

novice
12-05-2016, 17:05
Did you breadcrumb the ability?

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 17:05
I feel like I'm wasting my time here. I'm being asked to talk about dead townies, and asked to wait until tomorrow to even discuss my suspects. Renata may be the only person who actually looked and gave me her opinion. The alternative option I put forward, as I mentioned, gained no attention or discussion or votes outside of the guy who could get lynched today. I'll vote there but not many other people have said they'll go there, nor have they looked into Al. And as for khaan, I'm being told this is a good vote and it's not clear to me why this is. And, the people pushing khaan, have made no real effort to convince me that khaan is even the right choice.

I'm ready to wash my hands of this round. You want me to vote for Al, that's my vote. You want me to stay on atheotes, that's my vote. I've been here for five hours, ready to call it a night.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 17:06
Did you breadcrumb the ability?

No, I did not.

If you have one vig shot, there's no need to do so. The proof is in the shot itself.

seireikhaan
12-05-2016, 17:10
So you claim a 1-shot vig. Way to up the ante.



if atheotes is town, and you and Renata are town, and Khaan is town, and let's add novice for good measure, then that leaves Al-Monty-Barto-BSmith-Newyn, and I doubt you would consider BSmith in light of the other targets.

Your claim succeeds in making me more hesitant to lynch you, but now there is no way I'm backing down from Khaan. One way or another you're protecting him and if both you and Khaan survive through tomorrow it's game over. You'll be shielded by the claim, and Khaan's moment will have passed. You're ranging to lynch me, and all that atheotes-Barto-Al Sipsclar stuff is just filler or primer to seal the deal tomorrow.
My moment will have passed? How so? What kind of town logic is this anyways? Look, I can get Renata jumping my bones(:heart:), because yes, my big elaborate post probably wasn't my best work, but guess what, that's not normally my schtick and I didn't exactly have a ton of time left in the round, so I had to run with my gut at points. But what argument is *this*? "I have to lynch khaan now, just in case he's mafia"? How does me not being lynched today somehow prevent my lynch tomorrow? Heck, that's one of the things I've historically been best at - getting the threat of lynch for a few rounds before people tire of me and throw me into the volcano later in the game. I don't get this.

Renata
12-05-2016, 17:12
For what it's worth, Stork's latest comment on Zack was a positive one. I don't see him being the vig and Pizza just taking the credit. Don't mind me, working through my issues now. Scum vig? Not too likely, I don't think.

I don't know. My head hurts.

Khan's voting Al Sips. I think that makes a more appropriate counterwagon than atheotes right now.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 17:14
Unvote: atheotes
Vote: Al sipsclar

If we can get the vote movement that way, otherwise I go back.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 17:14
My moment will have passed? How so? What kind of town logic is this anyways? Look, I can get Renata jumping my bones(:heart:), because yes, my big elaborate post probably wasn't my best work, but guess what, that's not normally my schtick and I didn't exactly have a ton of time left in the round, so I had to run with my gut at points. But what argument is *this*? "I have to lynch khaan now, just in case he's mafia"? How does me not being lynched today somehow prevent my lynch tomorrow? Heck, that's one of the things I've historically been best at - getting the threat of lynch for a few rounds before people tire of me and throw me into the volcano later in the game. I don't get this.

Because if you don't lynch today, there will be no more impetus behind the case aside from me, and Pizza will dominate the day - the day being D4 being LYLO if scum isn't lynched today. If you are scum and you don't swing today, the game is effectively over.

There is no scenario in which I can lynch you tomorrow, period.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 17:17
If you need my vote to lynch a scum you'll have to decide your final vote relatively early in the round. These rounds end well after I go to sleep and then to school, in Norwegian time.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 17:18
Otherwise I can just faff about and be a lone voter. I can't help you cfd someone.

seireikhaan
12-05-2016, 17:23
Because if you don't lynch today, there will be no more impetus behind the case aside from me, and Pizza will dominate the day - the day being D4 being LYLO if scum isn't lynched today. If you are scum and you don't swing today, the game is effectively over.

There is no scenario in which I can lynch you tomorrow, period.
How on earth is there suddenly no impetus for it? Consider:

Town lynches someone else. Most likely, I will have to vote for said person because of self-preservation. If they are mafia, yay, we're not lylo, high fives etc. If they are town, suddenly I am sitting here being the guy who self preservation voted twice and got two townies lynched. On top of the fact that there is consistently multiple votes onto me ever phase. How on earth, again, do you lose the impetus to lynch me?

And, just another thing to toss out:

Consider, for a moment, if I am *not* scum. Wild theory, I know. I know that you want to pair atheotes with me or something to that effect if I am. But what if I'm not? Suddenly you're back here at LYLO, only instead of having your clear scum target, you have.... what? You already seem to think a town me implies a town atheotes.

seireikhaan
12-05-2016, 17:25
This was a terrible way to clear khaan and condemn choxorn.

I can also lynch khaan or atheotes today, maybe novice, too.
Then Newyn or Monty or El Barto.
BSmith and Renata probably never, though I'm going to tinfoil about BSmith.
Rather silly analysis, by the way. This is some social commentary on me generally being a lurker in most games, and anyone who takes it as "clearing" is a silly goose.

novice
12-05-2016, 17:26
Scum vig? Not too likely, I don't think.

Scum vig was my working theory even before Pizza's claim.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 17:28
I know that you want to pair atheotes with me or something to that effect if I am.

No, I didn't. More like the opposite.


You already seem to think a town me implies a town atheotes.

Opposite.


Town lynches someone else. Most likely, I will have to vote for said person because of self-preservation. If they are mafia, yay, we're not lylo, high fives etc. If they are town, suddenly I am sitting here being the guy who self preservation voted twice and got two townies lynched. On top of the fact that there is consistently multiple votes onto me ever phase. How on earth, again, do you lose the impetus to lynch me?


If you ignore everything else going on, maybe. You haven't been the center of attention since yesterday, and even then for only a small part of the day. If you live today and get atheotes or Al Sipsclar lynched and they flip town, I guarantee then that Pizza will do everything possible, directly and indirectly, to direct attention away from you. Winning concretely as opposed to RNG only solidifies the lack of interest.

Renata
12-05-2016, 17:29
Khaan, atheotes or Al Sips?

seireikhaan
12-05-2016, 17:30
Nah, I was pissed because Zack was not in my personal shit list, not that he couldn't hypothetically be on anyone's. Maybe you should ask Khaan this question, seeing as he had Zack as townie despite apparently having no idea why Zack had voted for him.
Zack's day 1 on read seemed pretty townie to me, so I was willing to wait a bit and ask for his input on the case against me.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 17:30
Scum vig was my working theory even before Pizza's claim.

Heck, he may well be an SK.

seireikhaan
12-05-2016, 17:31
Khaan, atheotes or Al Sips?
Al Sips.

seireikhaan
12-05-2016, 17:36
No, I didn't. More like the opposite.
Derp. MB.


If you ignore everything else going on, maybe. You haven't been the center of attention since yesterday, and even then for only a small part of the day. If you live today and get atheotes or Al Sipsclar lynched and they flip town, I guarantee then that Pizza will do everything possible, directly and indirectly, to direct attention away from you. Winning concretely as opposed to RNG only solidifies the lack of interest.
.....I don't get this. Like, seriously. If we counterwagon someone and lynch them as opposed to me, and they flip town, how do I suddenly drop off the radar? I'm actually baffled at this line of logic. Are you this terrified of Pizza?

Renata
12-05-2016, 17:45
Al Sips.

vote: Al Sipsclar

Can't believe I'm doing this. But we need both options.
novice -- why was scum vig your working theory?

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 17:51
how do I suddenly drop off the radar?

OK, in that case, who wants to lynch you? Me? Not Pizza. He would propose me or atheotes. Would you help me lynch Pizza in this scenario - or whom would you cast eyes upon? If you and Pizza are scum, it's catastrophe. If you are scum but Pizza is not, there are numerous other candidates who would pick up 2+ votes before you. If you are town and Pizza is not, then you don't seem to have any good ideas to turn things around.

I figure these odds:

If you are lynched as scum today, 75%+ of victory.
If you are lynched as town today, 50% of victory.
If you are not lynched as town, and town is lynched instead, 33% of victory.
If you are not lynched as scum, and town is lynched instead, 10% of victory.


That's why you must die.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 17:51
If Renata is scum, GG.

Renata
12-05-2016, 17:56
I'm not. That's why I always get shot tonight.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 17:58
Why Khaan must be lynched usually should include some reason why he's even scum in the first place, but you do you.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 18:04
Why Khaan must be lynched usually should include some reason why he's even scum in the first place, but you do you.

How the slot acted toward DP101, but you categorically refuse to acknowledge that type of argument, so there's no point reminding you of it.

novice
12-05-2016, 18:16
novice -- why was scum vig your working theory?

Because both Stork and Zack were very obviously town.

novice
12-05-2016, 18:16
novice -- why was scum vig your working theory?

Because both Stork and Zack were very obviously town.

Askthepizzaguy
12-05-2016, 18:18
I'm glad that this stuff is obvious in a guessing game. Why do I even bother to play?

novice
12-05-2016, 18:22
If you're suspecting me and you ask me no questions that I can answer, I can't help you correct your mistake.

I already tried to engage you in post 753, but you were in full spin mode.


Talk us through why you lynched Dp, Pizza.

novice
12-05-2016, 18:28
Renata, where are you headed?

Pizza, ok so you can't read Zack. Why did you shoot him though? Didn't you say on day 1 that you would wait until you could get a read on Zack?

novice
12-05-2016, 18:30
This is what I remember, I guess.


you should be reading me town but you have completely ignored me

I've ignored a lot of people. Trying to look at folks I'd have a shot at reading.

Renata
12-05-2016, 18:32
Nowhere, forgot you'd said Zack was obvious town and thought there might be some other reason.

novice
12-05-2016, 18:35
Renata, I mean, where are you headed with your vote. I'm not following you off Pizza/Khaan.
(If I were, my third preference would be Atheotes.)

Reading Pizza's day two I see nothing leading up to a Zack vigging.

Vote: Pizza

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 18:37
Time to rally.

Unvote: Khaan

Vote: Pizza

Renata
12-05-2016, 18:41
I don't know yet here I'm heading with my vote.

Al Sipsclar
12-05-2016, 19:49
Your claim succeeds in making me more hesitant to lynch you

If I learned something, that's Pizza claiming anything should remove any hesitation to lynch him.


Rather silly analysis, by the way. This is some social commentary on me generally being a lurker in most games, and anyone who takes it as "clearing" is a silly goose.

Honk! Please, don't call that an analysis, I feel offended. My posts are 100% analysis-free, certified as empty space by leading experts. I never claim an attempt at "analysis" - analysis is one of many things I'm incapable of. When I have a thought, I try to communicate it, however awkward, silly, or weird, but I don't "analyze".

The thought I'm having right now is that if I pretend that Pizza is town, and atheotes and newyn are just clueless and misguided townies, then maybe it is khaan-Monty-novice we're looking at. They seem rather confident in their convictions. Plus a deep wolf among Barto-BSmith-Renata, with Barto being at the shallow end of the deep wolf pool.

Renata
12-05-2016, 20:29
Khaan and Monty w/w? Can we just give them the Emmy for best dramatic performance now?

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 20:45
Monty-Renata-Pizza

Renata
12-05-2016, 20:59
Let's call it a win and blow this pop stand.

Al Sipsclar
12-05-2016, 21:08
Khaan and Monty w/w? Can we just give them the Emmy for best dramatic performance now?

Monty already got one for Futurama.

Renata
12-05-2016, 21:15
Well I'm pretty much already resigned to having been embarrassingly outplayed by somebody, so that doesn't mean much to me.

Montmorency
12-05-2016, 21:19
Monty already got one for Futurama.

Haven't received anything in the mail.

And remember, Sips, if we want to lynch either Khaan or Pizza then your vote carries a lot of weight. You can't shade others for switching from Khaan on that account.

Newyn
12-05-2016, 22:03
Vote: Pizza

I've been more paranoid about Zack and Stork than most of the thread and I don't see myself shooting either of them as a one shot vig over multiple other people that I think would have given more information.

El Barto
12-05-2016, 23:41
I'm going to venture Barto as a general third-candidate for scum team.
Get off it.

I'll finish what I started, but if the wagon collapses then I hope it doesn't migrate to Al Sipclar over Pizza.
You will?

atheotes
12-06-2016, 04:15
Hi Renata.

I've followed this somewhat up to GH being replaced. From that, Zack and Stork were very obviously town. Too bad that's not news anymore. Also, Pizza looks extremely scummy to me.

Vote: ATPG

Oh yeah DP was also obvtown.

Shame only the dead townies were obvious town to you!

atheotes
12-06-2016, 05:21
My team of lurking scums I came up with, based on post count.

1. Renata
7. Montmorency
3. ATPG
6. El Barto <-----4th most talkative living player, guy I accused.
13. Atheotes <----- 5th most talkative living player, guy I accused.
14. Riedquat/novice <----Guy I've defended
8. Seireikhaan <----Guy I'm not pushing
9. Al Sipsclar <----Guy I voted once and still suspect but am looking other places.
12. Newyn <----Guy I'm not pushing.
4. BSmith <------Guy I said is town.


Look at that team of lurkers I came up with.

Renata do me a favor and drop all the bullshit and start playing the game in a somewhat straightforward manner.

going with 4 scum, a smattering of PRs to balance out.

scum 2 - El barto/Al Sips -
scum 3 - Newyn/Khaan
scum 4 - BSmith/Novice

atheotes
12-06-2016, 05:26
For a change, i seem to be understanding what Monty is saying. thats a first.

atheotes
12-06-2016, 05:35
TLDR version

Riedquat's vote on d1 and behavior all game doesn't lend itself to a scum read from me.
GH is less clear, but because reasons, he's also a town read from me.
And our worst case scenario is when they're both townies, so we have to look at that. I also think it's more than 50% probable. Maybe a lot more.

Looking at that scenario, you see questionable vote patterns emerge.

I don't know what Al's doing this game with his vote, but it's not townie stuff. I also think the votes on Al came from townies this game, and weren't picked up on because it's tough to build a case for Al, and everyone was demoralized yesterday, and scums seemed to have a comfortable position, not needing to bus.

Unless Newyn was scum, in which case, they got pressure recently.

Atheotes' final vote on d2 is the clear winner of the worst vote of the game contest, I don't need an explanation or even context to see that. That's just clear from the vote tally.

How so? Please elaborate

Montmorency
12-06-2016, 05:50
going with 4 scum, a smattering of PRs to balance out.

scum 2 - El barto/Al Sips -
scum 3 - Newyn/Khaan
scum 4 - BSmith/Novice

Do you realize that you have almost everyone as scum? That's not funny.

atheotes
12-06-2016, 06:35
Atheotes' vote is scummy because he waited all round to make a move, then his move was to go against the 5 vote lead wagon on someone a lot of folks found scummy. The slot is probably town, and keeping a mislynch alive is a great idea. If the khaan slot dies, he looks better for voting for the not cleared choxorn, and if the slot doesn't die, he can blame others for driving the lynch and simply suggest that GH/khaan looked townie to him. It's defensible both ways, and both ways causes headaches for town.

Pattern is indistinguishable from mine if you are deliberately trying to not look for distinguishing characteristics. So you're either playing devil's advocate or you can be scum atp.

ok. Your logic is pretty sound. But you are not taking into account all possibilities. it looks like you have an agenda. Town pizza would have surely noted the other possibility.
I was not waiting. Just that i did not have time on D2.

atheotes
12-06-2016, 06:37
Do you realize that you have almost everyone as scum? That's not funny.

Dont be so serious. It would be lol if it turns out that Pizza is scum 1 and the rest are one each in those tiers.

atheotes
12-06-2016, 06:52
This was a terrible way to clear khaan and condemn choxorn.

I can also lynch khaan or atheotes today, maybe novice, too.
Then Newyn or Monty or El Barto.
BSmith and Renata probably never, though I'm going to tinfoil about BSmith.

Nice hedge!

novice
12-06-2016, 08:01
Tally as of post 940. Al Sips is actually on 3 votes in total.

Lynch votes
4 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726843#post2053726843), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726983#post2053726983), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726985#post2053726985), Newyn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727010#post2053727010))
2 votes: Al Sipsclar (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726946#post2053726946), Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726962#post2053726962))
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726809#post2053726809))
1 votes: Al Sipsclair (seireikhaan (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726748#post2053726748))
1 votes: Montmorency (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053726824#post2053726824))

Voting history:
Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

GeneralHankerchief

atheotes

Askthepizzaguy

Al Sipsclair

GeneralHankerchief

Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Aetheotes

Atheotes

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

atheotes
12-06-2016, 08:09
I'll admit it's a relevant thing to ask khaan.

I still think that slot is town. Khaan didn't necessarily do anything to earn it, but it is what it is.

I don't want to vote there. I think the team is Al-theotes with a generous dollop of Monty. But I got nothing to back it up except their vote pattern, and no one has a good one. I just think some people managed to get town reads out of this mess in spite of that-

Riedquat slot not self pres on d1

And who was pushing GH.

riedquat voted on 306 .his last post was 308 - about 6 hrs before EOD. at that time he had 1 vote on him (Choxorn) whom he OMGUSed.

How can you say Riedquat did not self pres? BS. You are just fitting things into your narrative.

atheotes
12-06-2016, 08:17
I cant shake the feeling that pizza is scum. the fact that he has claimed 1-shot gives me pause.
He chose to shoot Zack, whom he has claimed he was unable to read. I cant understand the choice.

We are 10 alive now.
if we have 4 scum - mislynch today and game over possibly. it doest make sense unless there are some town PRs that can reduce kill power or atleast aid in catching scum.
But we have a claim for additional kill power and 1-time limited save.
It makes me believe that we have 3 scum with an additional 1 shot kill ability.
Vote: Pizza

novice
12-06-2016, 08:43
riedquat voted on 306 .his last post was 308 - about 6 hrs before EOD. at that time he had 1 vote on him (Choxorn) whom he OMGUSed.

How can you say Riedquat did not self pres? BS. You are just fitting things into your narrative.

Maybe not relevant, but for information: The tallies I posted listed Riedquat as voting No lynch on day 1, which was his initial vote. His vote in post 306 wasn't counted by the vote counter plugin. I think Pizza worked off a tally I posted.


Unvote; Vote: Choxorn because OMGUS!

At any rate, Riedquat demonstrably didn't self pres. The real question is whether scum Riedquat would be less likely to be completely offline near the deadline.

atheotes
12-06-2016, 08:53
Maybe not relevant, but for information: The tallies I posted listed Riedquat as voting No lynch on day 1, which was his initial vote. His vote in post 306 wasn't counted by the vote counter plugin. I think Pizza worked off a tally I posted.



At any rate, Riedquat demonstrably didn't self pres. The real question is whether scum Riedquat would be less likely to be completely offline near the deadline.

If Riedquat had come into the thread and did not vote the counter wagon, you can say "Riedquat demonstrably didn't self pres"
There was no pressure on him when he left the thread.
From what i know, Riedquat is not an active thread presence. So him not being here during EOD is not alignment indicative.

Newyn
12-06-2016, 12:02
Where I'm at:
I think Pizza is lying but there's one thing I can't ignore - BSmith and El Barto have been off wagon literally every day.
Could we be completely wrong and be in a situation where we've had V/V wagons 3 days in a row with BSmith and El Barto avoiding everything to not attract attention?

BSmith
12-06-2016, 12:13
Not quite, for me anyway. I have started on wagon the past couple of days. The wagon has just drifted away from my position. Same case today. Right now it seems heavily on Pizza. I don't see the need to pile on one more vote and will stay on khaan. I'll be in and out over the next hour or so and can adjust as necessary if a viable counter wagon should appear, but for now I am fine with either pizza or khaan.

novice
12-06-2016, 12:25
One person switching from Pizza to Al Sips would give us yet another random lynch.

Tally as of post 947:

Lynch votes
5 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053727065#post2053727065showthread.php?152287&p=2053726843#post2053726843), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053727065#post2053727065showthread.php?152287&p=2053726983#post2053726983), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053727065#post2053727065showthread.php?152287&p=2053726985#post2053726985), Newyn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053727065#post2053727065showthread.php?152287&p=2053727010#post2053727010), atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053727065#post2053727065showthread.php?152287&p=2053727044#post2053727044))
3 votes: Al Sipsclar (seireikhaan (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053727065#post2053727065showthread.php?152287&p=2053726748#post2053726748), Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053727065#post2053727065showthread.php?152287&p=2053726946#post2053726946), Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053727065#post2053727065showthread.php?152287&p=2053726962#post2053726962))
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053727065#post2053727065showthread.php?152287&p=2053726809#post2053726809))
1 votes: Montmorency (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053727065#post2053727065showthread.php?152287&p=2053726824#post2053726824))

Voting history:
Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

GeneralHankerchief

atheotes

Askthepizzaguy

Al Sipsclair

GeneralHankerchief

Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Aetheotes

Atheotes

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Newyn
12-06-2016, 12:27
Fair enough, only other thing I'm worried about is that Pizza's claim is so ridiculous that it might be true.
I have great respect for Pizza's play so if he is scum, what do you think is his motivation behind such a claim? it feels like if he doesn't make a 1 shot vig claim, there wasn't that big a chance of him been the lynch today.

Askthepizzaguy
12-06-2016, 12:38
Hey look, Al Monty and atheotes are all voting for me, what are the odds.

glgl town.

BSmith
12-06-2016, 12:39
The one shot vig claim certainly draws more attention to Pizza, but with him that is often a null tell. I could see it going either way with him, which is one of the reasons I don't really want to jump on his wagon. I could make the case for either outcome and feel good about it.

BSmith
12-06-2016, 12:40
Alright. Let's make this interesting. vote: Al Sips

Renata
12-06-2016, 12:44
There was a lot of back and forth between him and Khaan. He was always a lynch possibility. He failed to get traction on atheotes or Al Sipsclar despite that they're perfectly good candidates for mafia.

I don't pretend to have the first idea how this flip is going to go. The feeling of being played like a fiddle is pervasive.

atheotes
12-06-2016, 12:49
Hey look, Al Monty and atheotes are all voting for me, what are the odds.

glgl town.

How many scum do you think there are?

Askthepizzaguy
12-06-2016, 12:50
How many scum do you think there are?
The only one that matters to me at the moment is Al Sipsclar.

atheotes
12-06-2016, 12:52
The only one that matters to me at the moment is Al Sipsclar.

I am willing to lynch Al sips. I am asking you a simple question.

Askthepizzaguy
12-06-2016, 12:53
I am willing to lynch Al sips. I am asking you a simple question.

No lylo was announced, so three.

Renata
12-06-2016, 12:58
Up to you, atheotes.

Newyn
12-06-2016, 12:59
Not sure if I'm more scared of Pizza actually been town or getting fooled by him more.

Askthepizzaguy
12-06-2016, 12:59
Sips wagon had 4 townies on it. Lynch outside of that wagon and you win the game 90% of the time.

Newyn
12-06-2016, 12:59
Vote: Al Sipsclar

Renata
12-06-2016, 12:59
Not sure if I'm more scared of Pizza actually been town or getting fooled by him more.

Tell me about it.

Newyn
12-06-2016, 13:01
Please don't make me regret this switch Pizza.

Renata
12-06-2016, 13:01
Granted, he's going to be his lovably insufferable self either way.

atheotes
12-06-2016, 13:01
you should have stayed
anyways, i think al sips is scum with pizza

Askthepizzaguy
12-06-2016, 13:01
That might have been the clutchest vote switch. Everything rides on Al Sips' flip.

Round ended at 1pm my time, right? Or is the round still in play?

Visor
12-06-2016, 13:01
somebody post a tally please

i have no idea how to work that thingo

Newyn
12-06-2016, 13:02
It's ended, waiting on Visor now.

Visor
12-06-2016, 13:03
Lynch votes
4 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Al Sipsclar, novice, Montmorency, atheotes)
5 votes: Al Sipsclar (seireikhaan, Askthepizzaguy, Renata, bsmith, newyn)
1 votes: Montmorency (El Barto)

al sips lynched, dead town

23 hours for night orders 24 hours for night

Visor
12-06-2016, 13:05
Alive: 9
1. Renata
3. ATPG
4. BSmith
6. El Barto
7. Montmorency
8. Khaan
12. Newyn
13. Atheotes
14. Novice

dead
5. Dp101 town d1
15. Scarlett Aria town n1
11. Choxorn town d2
2. Stork town n2
10. Zack town n2
9. Al Sipsclar town d3

Al Sipsclar
12-06-2016, 19:54
'gah, town' style comment

Visor
12-07-2016, 12:50
novice dead town

Alive: 8
1. Renata
3. ATPG
4. BSmith
6. El Barto
7. Montmorency
8. Khaan
12. Newyn
13. Atheotes


dead 7
5. Dp101 town d1
15. Scarlett Aria town n1
11. Choxorn town d2
2. Stork town n2
10. Zack town n2
9. Al Sipsclar town d3
14. Novice town n3

48 hours for day

Renata
12-07-2016, 13:02
vote: Askthepizzaguy

Newyn is a teammate, known it since that Al Sips vote, fucking ignored it.

Montmorency
12-07-2016, 14:02
OK, so that was storybook nonsense, and it throws quite a lot of shade.

Renata, that did not look good overall.

Atheotes more or less did what was expected, but those analysis posts didn't have a lot of substance.

As we all witnessed, Newyn clutched that whole round, and BSmith technically helped, but given the timing and sequence I can conclude that there is no way they are partners. No more than one of them could be scum now.

This is the Era of Bad Feelings, and somehow El Barto is the closest thing to null I have now.

So let's stick with what I know, which is two things:
1. Khaan must be lynched.
2. Pizza must be lynched.

Vote: Khaan

Pizza can't serve as the immediate consensus wagon, as we learn little from its course. I will probably be voting him by the end of the day, but by Khaan's own admission I should not let the pressure slide from him.

Once we have set out those things which we know, namely that Khaan and Pizza are scum, we at least have a little more time to discover the final, deep, scum.

Montmorency
12-07-2016, 14:06
vote: Askthepizzaguy

Newyn is a teammate, known it since that Al Sips vote, fucking ignored it.

Wouldn't that be so neat, that Newyn would expose himself at the last minute, and take the lynch from some inconvenient other target.

I will vote to lynch the two scum-in-hand before any prospectives. The endgame has arrived. You know what that means.

atheotes
12-07-2016, 14:09
no Lylo (or potential lylo) notice?
surprised with the novice kill...

atheotes
12-07-2016, 14:12
OK, so that was storybook nonsense, and it throws quite a lot of shade.

Renata, that did not look good overall.

Atheotes more or less did what was expected, but those analysis posts didn't have a lot of substance.

As we all witnessed, Newyn clutched that whole round, and BSmith technically helped, but given the timing and sequence I can conclude that there is no way they are partners. No more than one of them could be scum now.

This is the Era of Bad Feelings, and somehow El Barto is the closest thing to null I have now.

So let's stick with what I know, which is two things:
1. Khaan must be lynched.
2. Pizza must be lynched.

Vote: Khaan

Pizza can't serve as the immediate consensus wagon, as we learn little from its course. I will probably be voting him by the end of the day, but by Khaan's own admission I should not let the pressure slide from him.

Once we have set out those things which we know, namely that Khaan and Pizza are scum, we at least have a little more time to discover the final, deep, scum.

My analysis proves that pizza is scum!
What are the odds that you are scum with pizza again? hmm..if so, you have played a different game and hats off to you. Dropping the tinfoil for now.

atheotes
12-07-2016, 14:14
Newyn's vote is scummy. Has he even come back for EOD before? Will check later.

Vote: Pizza

Montmorency
12-07-2016, 14:30
My analysis proves that pizza is scum!


Other than the Riedquat self-pres posts and that one post where you labeled almost everyone alive at the time as scum, here is what you had to say:


I cant shake the feeling that pizza is scum. the fact that he has claimed 1-shot gives me pause.
He chose to shoot Zack, whom he has claimed he was unable to read. I cant understand the choice.

We are 10 alive now.
if we have 4 scum - mislynch today and game over possibly. it doest make sense unless there are some town PRs that can reduce kill power or atleast aid in catching scum.
But we have a claim for additional kill power and 1-time limited save.
It makes me believe that we have 3 scum with an additional 1 shot kill ability.
Vote: Pizza


You have barely even said anything about Pizza specifically. You could easily be his partner by the same token.

Renata
12-07-2016, 14:39
Wouldn't that be so neat, that Newyn would expose himself at the last minute, and take the lynch from some inconvenient other target.

I will vote to lynch the two scum-in-hand before any prospectives. The endgame has arrived. You know what that means.

I'm actually more convinced of Newyn than of Khaan at this point, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. I think the bit at end of day with Newyn first voting Pizza, then switching, was a bit of theater to make him look not quite so much like a teammate, enabled by BSmith changing his vote. Look at Pizza talking about Newyn throughout this game and tell me you don't see mafia tiptoeing around a teammate.

I don't understand why you would go Khaan today and risk splitting votes at LYLO.

Renata
12-07-2016, 14:40
Newyn's vote is scummy. Has he even come back for EOD before? Will check later.

Vote: Pizza

Yeah, he was here to witness dp's death and not change his vote to Riedquat despite finding me scummy (he said).

BSmith
12-07-2016, 14:52
vote: Pizza or Newyn.

Montmorency
12-07-2016, 15:02
I'm actually more convinced of Newyn than of Khaan at this point, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. I think the bit at end of day with Newyn first voting Pizza, then switching, was a bit of theater to make him look not quite so much like a teammate, enabled by BSmith changing his vote. Look at Pizza talking about Newyn throughout this game and tell me you don't see mafia tiptoeing around a teammate.

I don't understand why you would go Khaan today and risk splitting votes at LYLO.

To remind everyone that Khaan is on the agenda. I would of course stick around to ensure that their scum team couldn't ram a third candidate through EOD.

In principle, can you show how different Pizza's treatment of Khaan was from his treatment of Newyn?

Renata
12-07-2016, 15:09
I'm not sure it means anything, but they're clearly different. Pizza ignored Khaan until he started saying he was obvious town for meta reasons and would never lynch him. After that, he proceeded to continue to ignore him.

With Newyn, Pizza first liked my case against him, then ignored it, then reversed course into saying my logic sucked, then held forth at length on the virtues of Newyn's gameplay without giving any read at all, then ignored him again. Something like that.

But to sum up, Pizza's never expressed a read on Newyn, while he's been unwavering on never-lynch Khaan ever since he first expressed an opinion.

Montmorency
12-07-2016, 15:32
then held forth at length on the virtues of Newyn's gameplay

I remember the "better liar" post, though I think it was earlier in the sequence than you placed it.

Here are all the posts referencing Newyn that I can find by Pizza (from newest to oldest):



You know, I'm not sold on Newyn, but I trust the folks who have voted for him. If you need a fourth, that's my fourth.

TLDR version

Riedquat's vote on d1 and behavior all game doesn't lend itself to a scum read from me.
GH is less clear, but because reasons, he's also a town read from me.
And our worst case scenario is when they're both townies, so we have to look at that. I also think it's more than 50% probable. Maybe a lot more.

Looking at that scenario, you see questionable vote patterns emerge.

I don't know what Al's doing this game with his vote, but it's not townie stuff. I also think the votes on Al came from townies this game, and weren't picked up on because it's tough to build a case for Al, and everyone was demoralized yesterday, and scums seemed to have a comfortable position, not needing to bus.

Unless Newyn was scum, in which case, they got pressure recently.

Atheotes' final vote on d2 is the clear winner of the worst vote of the game contest, I don't need an explanation or even context to see that. That's just clear from the vote tally.

Vote history cross-examination post, in case it's useful in general (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053726761&viewfull=1#post2053726761)


My team of lurking scums I came up with, based on post count.

1. Renata
7. Montmorency
3. ATPG
6. El Barto <-----4th most talkative living player, guy I accused.
13. Atheotes <----- 5th most talkative living player, guy I accused.
14. Riedquat/novice <----Guy I've defended
8. Seireikhaan <----Guy I'm not pushing
9. Al Sipsclar <----Guy I voted once and still suspect but am looking other places.
12. Newyn <----Guy I'm not pushing.
4. BSmith <------Guy I said is town.


Look at that team of lurkers I came up with.

Renata do me a favor and drop all the bullshit and start playing the game in a somewhat straightforward manner.


Leans post with Newyn and Khaan as null, side by side. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053726702&viewfull=1#post2053726702)


I think the weakest push on me so far is the bit about Newyn. It's pretty clear from the context of my posts that I was giving my impression of his meta, not an assessment of his alignment this game.

It's nice that folks think it's a slam dunk case, so when it isn't, they should probably have a contingency plan for tomorrow, if they're town and still alive.


If you say so. I think he's a great lynch, and I would definitely lynch him if there was support.


Newyn isn't particularly jumpy.

Newyn strikes me as a particularly measured, deep thinking, not reveal your cards until the right moment, kind of player. As either alignment.

As town, he is uncannily like me: Will lie and create gambits that help town. However, he will do it in 10,000 fewer words, which makes it more effective.

As scum, I can figure out his plan. I can even explain his plan to you. But his plan will still work.

That's Newyn in a nutshell. I would love to town clear him. I don't know how to do that, but it would be a very strong move. If he lynches scum repeatedly, then him not being dead at final 3 should be a clue. But he should eat a murder instead by then.

If that helps you read him, great, if you have a better read on him than I do currently, and my experience with him is what he's playing into, then I apologize in advance.


I'm being super slow but I'm only just absorbing this now.

I kind of get what you mean here, but I'd think it's more important to try to get your scum suspect lynched than to try to create teams, particularly that early.

Was there something more compelling that I'm missing? Because I wouldn't be surprised.


I'm voting for choxorn with anyone who is. The fact that it's Newyn doesn't enter into it much.


I haven't seen anything that makes me push any of my town reads away from being town.

On the other hand, I don't have a strong suspect at the moment. Renata's case on Newyn seems fine.

I'll add pressure to Al Sipsclar until I can come up with a reason not to, or I find something stronger.

Vote: Al Sipsclar



I can't agree with your overall characterization based on Pizza's posts, Renata. There is little to distinguish his treatment of Newyn and his treatment of Khaan, beyond the particulars of who was pushing whom, at what time, and how aggressively. Pizza was consistently nullish about Newyn, but prepared to lynch him if he could get a wagon.

Montmorency
12-07-2016, 15:34
Btw any bolded text in those posts (other than the vote at the bottom) are my emphasis.

Renata
12-07-2016, 15:50
That 'if you say so' post was referencing being willing to lynch Al Sips, not Newyn. Take that out of the equation and see if you still buy that Pizza's got any intention of sending Newyn to the gallows. He's got Newyn as a fourth in a game with three scum, that's as close as you get.

Montmorency
12-07-2016, 16:06
That 'if you say so' post was referencing being willing to lynch Al Sips, not Newyn. Take that out of the equation and see if you still buy that Pizza's got any intention of sending Newyn to the gallows. He's got Newyn as a fourth in a game with three scum, that's as close as you get.

That actually reinforces my point, which is that Pizza was effectively nullish in regard to Khaan and Newyn.

The only demonstrable difference is that Pizza claimed willingness, in hypothetical, to back your case on Newyn, and comments regarding Khaan's lynch were more universally disapproving.

Renata
12-07-2016, 16:20
I feel like we're talking past each other or something. He was nullish on Newyn, but strongly never-lynch on Khaan. You wanted differences between, I'm not even sure why right now, that's the difference.

Montmorency
12-07-2016, 16:29
This issue was raised in connection to one (or both) of these guys' relationship to Pizza.

This is the significant difference I see in the posts I quoted:

1. The case on Newyn is not very strong but Pizza will back you if it means gaining your support.
2. The case on Khaan is unclear, and until he hears otherwise Pizza will treat that slot as town.

And as I hinted, much of this depended on when the cases were being advanced and by whom. Clearly Pizza has been more interested on bringing you onto his side than he has with me, and you didn't broach the subject much after early D3 so he could afford to let it slide.

I do not see the above as painting Newyn a more-likely partner than Khaan.

Renata
12-07-2016, 16:33
I disagree but fair enough. It could well be all three of them.

Askthepizzaguy
12-07-2016, 21:35
Vote: Atheotes

A futile gesture, but I'd like to be right once this game.

Renata
12-07-2016, 21:42
So would we all.

Newyn
12-07-2016, 22:23
Pizza/Renata/BSmith is my scum team.
A moment of madness made me change when I shouldn't have because I refused to believe that Pizza could rand scum 3 games in a row.
Renata's 1-shot bp claim is a very convenient excuse for why he doesn't get night killed.
Bsmith said he wants khaan or Pizza but votes to save Pizza.

Vote: Pizza

Renata
12-07-2016, 22:26
Pizza/Renata/BSmith is my scum team.
A moment of madness made me change when I shouldn't have because I refused to believe that Pizza could rand scum 3 games in a row.

Oh please. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.


Renata's 1-shot bp claim is a very convenient excuse for why he doesn't get night killed.

Is this your way of telling me you're going to wimp out of shooting at me tonight, too?

Newyn
12-07-2016, 22:29
I do not believe khaan can be scum because I think Renata is almost always scum here and he could have saved khaan d2 if they were both scum.

Newyn
12-07-2016, 22:34
Oh please. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.



Is this your way of telling me you're going to wimp out of shooting at me tonight, too?

You made the claim to support Pizza's claim of 1 shot, you claimed to be given the bp vest.
This is a simple setup, there are no roles I'd consider simple that would magically give or receive a BP during a game.
You're either scum buddies with Pizza or the SK. You been SK could actually explain why there's no lylo announcement.

Newyn
12-07-2016, 22:36
In a world where Renata is sk, I can see Khaan been scum with Pizza but in a world with a sk, we already lost.

Newyn
12-07-2016, 22:39
Actually, thoughts on a 2 mafia, sk "mountainous" setup?
That could explain why we havn't had a PR claim all game outside of Pizza/Renata.

Renata
12-07-2016, 22:46
You made the claim to support Pizza's claim of 1 shot, you claimed to be given the bp vest.
This is a simple setup, there are no roles I'd consider simple that would magically give or receive a BP during a game.

Inventor. That's why I assumed Pizza had been given a one-shot vig, not had it originally, check my ISO. I mentioned my vest hoping for some kind of handshake from others who might have received something or from the inventor themselves; when I got nothing, I started asking more pointed questions about the vig because then the obvious assumption starts to become the Inventor gave the power to a scum.


You're either scum buddies with Pizza or the SK. You been SK could actually explain why there's no lylo announcement.

This from someone who just tried to sell that a bulletproof vest was too much for a simple game now wants to posit a SK who's killed nobody. You should quite while you're behind.