View Full Version : Small Mafia Game Visor's Small Mafia Game [Concluded]
Askthepizzaguy
12-09-2016, 09:12
There is no danger of me being w/w with Renata. We could have lynched Newyn this round if that was the case, there were 5 people willing to lynch him today.
Askthepizzaguy
12-09-2016, 09:13
There is no danger of me being w/w with Renata. We could have lynched Newyn this round if that was the case, there were 5 people willing to lynch him today.
^
This is the most important one. You guys can see all this and know Renata is scum, but you won't move if you think I am because you think I'm worse.
atheotes
12-09-2016, 11:17
Couldn't finish, at school now.
Scummary:
Her one-time and still villager reads Monty, El Barto, atheotes, and Bsmith shouldn't all be alive if that's an entire block of villagers.
She gives El Barto a pass to ineffectively push Monty all game for no reason. Unwilling to lynch here or on Montmorency.
El Barto pushes Monty ineffectively all game, making no case on him whatsoever, latching onto a thing he said, and skating through the game. When I offer to help him lynch Monty, he utterly refuses, even though that was his opening vote today and his game-long suspect. Refuses to push Renata.
Montmorency unwilling to lynch anyone but khaan or myself, not willing to lynch his accuser El Barto, or Renata.
Renata knew I was a one shot vig, pressed me to claim the shot, knew the vigilante shot Zack and not Stork, and then claimed bulletproof.
She claimed bulletproof even though that's not a thing a villager does as bulletproof. Evidence points to her being a tracker.
Renata pushes choxorn and Al sipsclar as wolf/wolf then goes after anyone who agreed with her, except Monty.
Renata pushed dp101 and Reidquat and then went after people who agreed with her.
She passed the blame for dp101, Reidquat, choxorn, and Al sipsclar onto others and asked them to make the call. Example: Telling atheotes it was up to him last round, instead of taking a stand and pushing her own suspects.
I have a visibly confirmed power that has not been counterclaimed, which, if I am scum, means the scum team had a one time shot in addition to their regular shot. It's more traditional for them to have let's say a strongman shot which replaces the team kill that night.
Instead of pushing me yesterday, Renata was willing to lynch my suspect, since it was wrong.
What's scummier- guy who made cases on people and was wrong, never backed off any of his own reads or passed the blame, or person who allowed all of those lynches to happen, but positioned herself such that it was never her fault.
What's scummier- guy who claimed a one time vigilante shot, or person who claimed bulletproof for no reason after there's a vigilante known to be in the game?
Keep in mind for the above line: She is claiming she no longer even had that bulletproof power at the time she made that claim. But she still claimed she had it after I claimed vigilante, to deter me from shooting there.
El Barto and Renata have been hinting they're scum together all game.
Does Scummary mean "summary done by scum"? :creep:
atheotes
12-09-2016, 11:21
Pizza, i know what you are doing. I was the subject of it in the Futurama game.
I am fairly convinced that you are scum. its only the simplicity of the whole thing that bothers me. But that is not for today.
My vote stays.
Wow, Pizza. That's amazing.
atpg lynched dead mafia
23 hours for night orders 24 hours for night
Askthepizzaguy
12-09-2016, 13:19
Oh. OH....
You wanted me to lynch scumbags and not townies.
Well that's just a miscommunication thing. More your fault than mine, really. I cannot be held responsible for the pile of dead bodies in my wake.
atheotes killed, dead town
Alive: 6
1. Renata
4. BSmith
6. El Barto
7. Montmorency
8. Khaan
12. Newyn
dead 9
5. Dp101 town d1
15. Scarlett Aria town n1
11. Choxorn town d2
2. Stork town n2
10. Zack town n2
9. Al Sipsclar town d3
14. Novice town n3
3. ATPG mafia d4
13. Atheotes town n4
48 hours for day
Fucking mafia.
vote: Newyn
Waiting for El Barto to show up and vote Monty and ruin my life.
I'll come back later to make a proper case and try to check my assumptions and oh god why.
And great, nobody's here. And nobody's going to be here, because I'm probably in Monty's pocket and nobody else cares. If I'm wrong about everyone, please don't blame me. I'm doing my best.
I have to believe BSmith is town. He's been doing nothing but sheeping me since day one, hardly even any commentary. If he's mafia, it worked, but it's so disrespectful to the game IMO to play scum like that and I seriously hope he wouldn't do it. I will actually be upset to lose to that kind of tactic.
I'll check him along with everyone else when I get that far, but I don't think my opinion will change.
All day three votes, in order, coming right up if I can figure out the stupid multiquotes. It keeps glitching out on me. Here's the first bunch.
Good morning, Pizza!
vote: Askthepizzaguy
For being a scumbag.
Hi Renata.
I've followed this somewhat up to GH being replaced. From that, Zack and Stork were very obviously town. Too bad that's not news anymore. Also, Pizza looks extremely scummy to me.
Vote: ATPG
Oh yeah DP was also obvtown.
Will you vote Khaan with me, novice? Come on, I know you can.
vote: Seireikhaan
Vote: atheotes
~:wave:
Best case against Pizza. I missed it and I even cited scum-Pizza's shading of DP in the last game.
Next-best case against Pizza.
Adding to an earlier comment, I suggest that if Khaan is actually town, then Pizza's first vote of today (on Atheotes) makes Atheotes likely as a scum. Pizza breadcrumbs partners with his initial votes when he becomes center of attention, I think.
Vote: Pizza
What Riedquat/novice did wasn't pristine, but I don't think a scum novice would pick out that fact about Pizza's D1 presentation. Hardly even makes sense if novice had been following the game expecting to sub in for scum, which is a silly thought itself.
....Ow? Mind elaborating?
Vote: Al Sipsclair
I'm sticking to my guns for now. Sips has been mostly inactive and seems content to just try and rebound fire against himself.
A few more.
vote: khaan
Your ass and posterity… OK.
I was only looking through their posts, nobody else's.
He did it two games ago when I was Flexo the unkillable proven townie.
Lacking better leads and proper sleeping hours, vote: Montmorency.
Vote: Askthepizzaguy
Not going to respond to Pizza's accusations. I've lived an empty space and I'll die the empty space. I don't believe a town Pizza would not read me as town this game.
We're not, but we can revisit that if Khaan flips scum.
Reading your Exhibit A (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053726808&viewfull=1#post2053726808) post I tend to agree. It still feels like not lynching Pizza while there is support for it is a mistake though. I agree that Renata is top townie currently, and if she's scum she's very confident in so off-handedly claiming that. So I guess the onus is on you, Renata. If you insist on Khaan as today's lynch I'll sheep you.
Vote: Khaan
That's not very productive.
Very true. As Pizza said, that is undoubtedly the worst vote of the game.*
*OK I guess my/Riedquat's Choxorn vote is bad also, but as a neutral observer it was Atheotes' vote that I noticed.
Worst case, Khaan is town, Pizza kills Renata tonight, takes control. Pizza has little to say about Khaan, and he's preparing a soft landing for himself tomorrow.
Pizza-atheotes, or Pizza-Khaan? Pizza shouldn't ignore a partner while under heavy suspicion himself, no less putting up a third partner for the lynch. I think any Al Sipsclar scum pairings with Pizza are much less likely.
I'm going to venture Barto as a general third-candidate for scum team.
Unvote: Pizza
Vote: Khaan
I'll finish what I started, but if the wagon collapses then I hope it doesn't migrate to Al Sipclar over Pizza.
Vote: Aetheotes
Sheeping Pizza for better or worse. I've been distracted too much by other stuff lately to pay too much attention.
More.
vote: Atheotes
I'm taking myself out of the picture for a while. Sick of people laying off their votes on me.
Unvote: atheotes
Vote: Al sipsclar
If we can get the vote movement that way, otherwise I go back.
vote: Al Sipsclar
Can't believe I'm doing this. But we need both options.
novice -- why was scum vig your working theory?
Renata, I mean, where are you headed with your vote. I'm not following you off Pizza/Khaan.
(If I were, my third preference would be Atheotes.)
Reading Pizza's day two I see nothing leading up to a Zack vigging.
Vote: Pizza
Time to rally.
Unvote: Khaan
Vote: Pizza
Vote: Pizza
I've been more paranoid about Zack and Stork than most of the thread and I don't see myself shooting either of them as a one shot vig over multiple other people that I think would have given more information.
The rest, including one non-vote post I'm too tired to remove.
I cant shake the feeling that pizza is scum. the fact that he has claimed 1-shot gives me pause.
He chose to shoot Zack, whom he has claimed he was unable to read. I cant understand the choice.
We are 10 alive now.
if we have 4 scum - mislynch today and game over possibly. it doest make sense unless there are some town PRs that can reduce kill power or atleast aid in catching scum.
But we have a claim for additional kill power and 1-time limited save.
It makes me believe that we have 3 scum with an additional 1 shot kill ability.
Vote: Pizza
Where I'm at:
I think Pizza is lying but there's one thing I can't ignore - BSmith and El Barto have been off wagon literally every day.
Could we be completely wrong and be in a situation where we've had V/V wagons 3 days in a row with BSmith and El Barto avoiding everything to not attract attention?
Alright. Let's make this interesting. vote: Al Sips
Vote: Al Sipsclar
I mean, Newyn's equity to being Pizza's partner here is huge, never mind any of the other connections such as Pizza constantly deflecting from giving a real read on him. Even with my vote on Al Sips (along with Pizza and Khaan), Pizza was going to be lynched. Newyn piles on the end of that wagon with nothing resembling a read, just the idea that Pizza's vig made him likely scum. When if anything the logic should go the other way around, as indicated by BSmith in a post just before BSmith switches votes.
IMO Newyn is bussing, here. Look at what's the next thing he does after that vote (I included it in the post): set up BSmith and El Barto as possible mislynches for the next day, assuming Pizza flips mafia.
And then of course, after BSmith's vote change makes it possible, all of a sudden Newyn's willing to give Pizza the benefit of the doubt, and saves him.
And I didn't even mention that earlier in the day (when Khaan was leading and Pizza's wagon was fading), Newyn voted with Pizza on atheotes.
So I don't know. Convince me I'm wrong.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 16:34
Or, you were bussing Pizza. :shrug:
By now, you've kept letting Khaan slip away, and put him in a position where by dint of UTR he hasn't had to make any serious moves or contributions. Meanwhile, Newyn has made only bad moves and I find it hard to believe he had no alternatives.
I'll put it straight: lynch Khaan, and then we'll talk about final arrangements. It's not going to happen without your vote, but Newyn's lynch won't happen without mine.
Vote: khaan
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 16:36
Newyn voted with Pizza on atheotes.
That would have been part of his surefire scum strategy of 'I have to play like Pizza is town or I'm doomed'. It's difficult to see him as scum serially incriminating himself for no good reason or gain.
Or, you were bussing Pizza. :shrug:
By now, you've kept letting Khaan slip away, and put him in a position where by dint of UTR he hasn't had to make any serious moves or contributions. Meanwhile, Newyn has made only bad moves and I find it hard to believe he had no alternatives.
I'll put it straight: lynch Khaan, and then we'll talk about final arrangements. It's not going to happen without your vote, but Newyn's lynch won't happen without mine.
Vote: khaan
You don't have to sell me on Khaan's scumminess, you have to sell me on you. Make your best case. You were back and forth a bit on Pizza and Khaan -- make me feel it.
Khaan was lead on the Al Sips wagon on day three, ignoring Pizza completely, and on day four just voted for me with no reasoning given at all, so if we're looking at doing obviously bad things as mafia I'm not sure one of them has a leg up on the other.
vote: Seireikhaan
This is stupid (of me). If you're mafia, gg. You've been hitting me as town in little tiny ways the whole game, the kind of stuff that Pizza, for instance, never managed to pull off. I don't think you're mafia. If you are, you own me and you deserve it.
glgl as they say. Remember Newyn for tomorrow, if you're here and I'm not.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 17:04
I've already given all I have, several times. I don't spew.
GH on DP101, GH on Al Sips - transition to Khaan - Khaan is lead wagon, Pizza jumpstarts Choxorn wagon, Khaan joins him.
From then on Khaan and Pizza live in parallel worlds, while Pizza gives Newyn similar flipflop treatment as with atheotes, but over a more condensed discussion.
Like I said, you don't need to sell me about Khaan.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 17:20
you have to sell me on you. Make your best case. You were back and forth a bit on Pizza and Khaan -- make me feel it.
So, what are you asking for? Passion?
So, what are you asking for? Passion?
Nothing, anymore.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 17:30
If Khaan is not scum, then it must be Bart with you or Newyn.
If Khaan's not scum, it's game over. No pressure.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 17:46
Then examine that universe (what's with the Newyn-style angst?) while we're sitting around here.
Barto scum, regardless of partner, has done something between lurking and power-wolfing.
Newyn scum, under simmering pressure throughout, has been fairly consistent in presentation. Said yesterday would be willing to lynch Bart as alternative to Pizza.
Pending...
Looking at other universes was what got me in trouble on day three. I've been saying Newyn/Khaan all along and I'm reluctant to second-guess myself again.
I did look at El Barto's day three catch-up while I was compiling votes. Feel free to take a look yourself, but it felt good tone-wise. El Barto's been on the right side of wagons when he's been on them and IIRC was the first person to vote Pizza back on day two.
I don't think Newyn and El Barto are w/w -- that "howsabout BSmith or ElBarto tomorrow guys" with Pizza on the brink of lynch looked way too sincere an effort for me.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 17:59
The problem I see is that Khaan-Newyn has become much less likely. Khaan would have been better served making no vote yesterday - what happened to the 4-posts rule anyway? - than voting you. If he is scum and not partners with you, that's a terrible move.
was the first person to vote Pizza back on day two.
Very briefly. He also voted Stork for a short period. If null, then it's just further screwing around and/or a vote on the recent sub for its own sake. If scum, then just to register activity against the subbed partner (replacing Wytch, who posted all fluff in her time other than to read DP101 as "most villa" (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053725410#post2053725410)!)
The problem I see is that Khaan-Newyn has become much less likely. Khaan would have been better served making no vote yesterday - what happened to the 4-posts rule anyway? - than voting you. If he is scum and not partners with you, that's a terrible move.
Very briefly. He also voted Stork for a short period. If null, then it's just further screwing around and/or a vote on the recent sub for its own sake. If scum, then just to register activity against the subbed partner (replacing Wytch, who posted all fluff in her time other than to read DP101 as "most villa" (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-In-Play&p=2053725410#post2053725410)!)
If you want to vote El Barto I will vote with you there, too. I might not like it, but I have no choice. El Barto will surely vote against you, and of the two of you, I'll take you.
I do have Newyn over Khaan in my own personal ScumoDex for a reason, but we're way into WIFOM here. There's no reason for you to be alive if Khaan is scum. There's no reason for me to be alive if Newyn is. Unless they thought that our deaths would lead automatically to votes on our top suspects and decided that making us second-guess ourselves was the better option. I don't know. I don't know why scum Khaan votes in Pizza's favor yesterday with no comment. Newyn's got himself set up to do so based on his vote at end of day three, so that's not a problem. El Barto was happily off wagon on day three -- his vote sucks, I'm banking everything on tone.
Why do you have Newyn-ElBarto as an option but not Khaan-ElBarto? Is there evidence somewhere?
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 18:20
Why do you have Newyn-ElBarto as an option but not Khaan-ElBarto? Is there evidence somewhere?
I was speaking from the Khaan-town scenario: two of Newyn-Renata-Bart. I didn't yet insert full considerations for you.
Can you link the Bart post you have in mind? I'm not sure what to look for.
I don't think Newyn and Pizza ever directly address each other, the whole game. Even when Pizza does his scummy little monologue on Newyn's mafia talents, Newyn says nothing. Same might be true of GH/Khaan and Pizza,but I don't remember GH's contributions as well. I know Pizza and El Barto spoke to each other at least once. Will find.
I was speaking from the Khaan-town scenario: two of Newyn-Renata-Bart. I didn't yet insert full considerations for you.
Can you link the Bart post you have in mind? I'm not sure what to look for.
Oh right. Which post are you talking about? His vote for you, or something else?
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 18:22
I know Pizza and El Barto spoke to each other at least once.
Most of yesterday was them riffing off each other; before, that, a few posts of Pizza being dismissive toward Bart.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 18:23
Oh right. Which post are you talking about? His vote for you, or something else?
When you referred to a "catch-up post" while you were compiling votes.
Oh, not a post but posts. I'll get them, be right back.
I'm still having trouble with multiquote. It starts here and goes for his next ten posts. Khaan and Pizza are both under pressure at this point I believe.
It's just a four-letter word.
‘Get off it.’ :martass:
:stare:
seireikhaan
12-10-2016, 18:41
Vote: Renata
:knight:
Hi Khaan. I like your little knight.
seireikhaan
12-10-2016, 18:48
:norway:
:on_yell:
:skull:
:charge:
:quiet:
:embarassed:
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 18:50
Why did you post a Norwegian flag, Khaan? To symbolize your allegiance to Pizza?
Trolling aside, do you not have anything to say for yourself?
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 18:51
Norwegian Pizza spew dead, Khaan quiet quite embarrassed?
seireikhaan
12-10-2016, 18:58
!
:charge:
:quiet:
:norway:
:argue:
:england:
:driver:
He's saying he's been silenced, I think. Is that the Danish flag?
Come on, Monty, look at those posts of El Barto's.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 19:07
Khaan quiet. Norway England argue - driver?
He's saying he's been silenced, I think.
Then he wouldn't be posting at all, surely.
Come on, Monty, look at those posts of El Barto's.
I don't see anything notable about the tone, which is consistent with his other posts. At that point the count increased, as he seemingly made up for lost time on D1-2, when his presence had been barely top-10.
Khaan and Pizza are both under pressure when he posts. His first comment of note is to ask me why I moved my vote off Pizza. He follows up with brief, fluent reads on Al Sips, ATPG and I think novice, complete with post numbers he must have had to go look for. The vote on you is the only shitty thing about it, and even that requires me to assume you're town. My meta on El Barto is mostly five years out of date, and I can't tell the difference between unhelpful townie and scum townie El Barto anyway, but is that sequence in his scum range? It reminds me of flashes I saw during the Sherlock mafia game I followed, in which he was town tracker.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 19:17
complete with post numbers he must have had to go look for.
:/
but is that sequence in his scum range?
I don't know, he might be more aloof as scum. On the other hand, for apparent personal reasons he only shows up in this game the same few hours every day. I don't think his tone, certainly not meta-tone, is going to mark him as scum or town in this game.
seireikhaan
12-10-2016, 19:18
He's saying he's been silenced, I think. Is that the Danish flag?
Come on, Monty, look at those posts of El Barto's.
:wall:
:wizard:
:charge:
:rtwno:
:norway: :hmg:
:belly: :hmg:
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 19:20
The only part I got is shooting Norway/Pizza and shooting lady = Renata?
What is wizard dragon? Post thumbs-up if that's referring to a role affecting you, Khaan.
seireikhaan
12-10-2016, 19:22
:shrug:
I have a really hard time believing in the honesty of anyone who's voting me at this point, even if Khaan looked townie otherwise. There is no f-ing way I can post like this as scum. The votes, sure, that's the easy part. It's everything else. I mean, I was pissed off when Pizza started pulling that 'stop with the BS, Renata' crap on me, and it showed, even though I didn't want it to.
seireikhaan
12-10-2016, 19:37
I have a really hard time believing in the honesty of anyone who's voting me at this point, even if Khaan looked townie otherwise. There is no f-ing way I can post like this as scum. The votes, sure, that's the easy part. It's everything else. I mean, I was pissed off when Pizza started pulling that 'stop with the BS, Renata' crap on me, and it showed, even though I didn't want it to.
:belly:
:soapbox:
:coffeenews:
seireikhaan
12-10-2016, 19:39
I have a really hard time believing in the honesty of anyone who's voting me at this point, even if Khaan looked townie otherwise. There is no f-ing way I can post like this as scum. The votes, sure, that's the easy part. It's everything else. I mean, I was pissed off when Pizza started pulling that 'stop with the BS, Renata' crap on me, and it showed, even though I didn't want it to.
:wine: :charge:
You guys are out to personally torture me, aren't you.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 19:43
He's saying he isn't impressed.
Enough with the charades. If you won't speak English outright, at least follow a letter-substitution code.
seireikhaan
12-10-2016, 19:44
He's saying he isn't impressed.
Enough with the charades. If you won't speak English outright, at least follow a letter-substitution code.
:no:
:charge: :skull:
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 19:44
You guys are out to personally torture me, aren't you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SDGlDo0Lng
El Barto
12-10-2016, 19:59
Waiting for El Barto to show up and vote Monty and ruin my life.
Seriously? Well then, vote: Montmorency. I was right before and I am right today as well.
El Barto
12-10-2016, 20:00
But also seriously.
Vote: Renata
:knight:
:stare: vote: seireikhaan
You about gave me a heart attack there, Mr Barto. I thought I was going to have to argue with you and I'm about all out of argue.
seireikhaan
12-10-2016, 20:11
But also seriously.
:stare: vote: seireikhaan
:inquisitive:
:belly:
:norway:
:thwack:
:driver:
El Barto
12-10-2016, 20:13
Look, for the record, as I posted a gazillion times yesterday, it's atpg plus Monty plus Newyn or seireikhaan (both have voted to save pizza, both have been faffing about). Now, four is too much, people somehow seem completely disinclined to vote for Monty, so it's Newyn or 'khaan. Your cardiac problems notwithstanding, we must vote within those three people to win.
El Barto
12-10-2016, 20:13
:thwack:
Oh no you bloody didn't.
El Barto
12-10-2016, 20:18
btw I was more willing to lynch Newyn than 'khaan (failing to lynch Monty, of course) until the latter a) voted Renata and then b) fish-slapped me. Grrrr.
I'd still rather vote Newyn myself. You, me and BSmith would make three, but we'd need a fourth to get the lynch out of rand. Monty doesn't seem inclined, unless he comes down on the you/Newyn camp at some point as being a likely idea. Newyn obviously isn't going to go for it. Khaan seems to be happy voting for me and is my top pick for Newyn's scumbuddy anyway, so I could hardly trust him.
I'm confused why you would go with Khaan if you think Monty is for sure wolf and is voting for Khaan. You seem to be accepting you could be wrong about Monty, but that's not what you're saying.
El Barto
12-10-2016, 20:39
Oh, I completely missed Monty's vote on Khaan.
I think Monty bussed pizza yesterday, tbh, (I'm still sure it's him plus EITHER Newyn OR 'khaan) so that's not much of a tell. Right now it's 3-1 in his favour so at best you go to RNG provided Monty somehow busses 'khaan who'll flip scum… which wouldn't make sense unless they have another two kills or something like that, so we'd better vote Newyn because Monty is not voting Newyn and Newyn voted to save atpg twice while 'khaan only did it once. Noticed how everyone shut up, almost as if askthepizzascum had said ‘let's eat the lynch’. Maybe they were hoping for another last-minute switch and Newyn was really gullible (twice?).
OK, my head hurts.
The paranoia is horrible right now.
El Barto
12-10-2016, 20:41
Argh, I posted before time.
At this point I am sure that, if we forced them to, 'khaan and Newyn would vote each other. Monty votes one and we vote the other. Of course, Monty will play mind games with us and switch his vote. Or not. >_<
Khaan did vote to save ATPG twice. He was on the Al Sips wagon as well, in fact he started it.
El Barto
12-10-2016, 20:45
Both twice…? Let's see, Newyn twice, including his EOD switch, 'khaan yesterday and when else? ach, there are no links from Visor to his updates, but if you say he was there I'll take your word for it. That's 2-2 instead of 2-1 as I thought. I still want to see what the hell shenanigans Monty pulls.
Argh, I posted before time.
At this point I am sure that, if we forced them to, 'khaan and Newyn would vote each other. Monty votes one and we vote the other. Of course, Monty will play mind games with us and switch his vote. Or not. >_<
Townies can't force suspects to vote each other at LYLO. I mean I guess presumably 3 townies voting together could force them to bus or face a flip that increases their risk at final 4. But if it's not 3 townies there's no chance. I want to believe you and Monty (and BSmith) are all townies and therefore we can't go wrong, but I am so freaking paranoid.
I need a break. I'll be back this evening.
El Barto
12-10-2016, 21:08
Townies can't force suspects to vote each other at LYLO. I mean I guess presumably 3 townies voting together could force them to bus or face a flip that increases their risk at final 4. But if it's not 3 townies there's no chance. I want to believe you and Monty (and BSmith) are all townies and therefore we can't go wrong, but I am so freaking paranoid.
You and BSmith, practically sure (unless I've completely misread the game), me, certainly (obviously), that's three. Monty's scum. One of Newyn and 'khaan is scum. If we can come in and vote tomorrow then we're practically set. The other scum is exposed, game, set, match.
El Barto
12-10-2016, 21:12
I need a break. I'll be back this evening.
Ep, missed this. See you later then.
seireikhaan
12-10-2016, 21:18
btw I was more willing to lynch Newyn than 'khaan (failing to lynch Monty, of course) until the latter a) voted Renata and then b) fish-slapped me. Grrrr.
:no:
!
:belly:
19248
:norway:
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 21:20
Argh, I posted before time.
At this point I am sure that, if we forced them to, 'khaan and Newyn would vote each other. Monty votes one and we vote the other. Of course, Monty will play mind games with us and switch his vote. Or not. >_<
This is a good way to have town running in circles while mafia dictate the lynch.
It's difficult to imagine a townie proposing this sort of logic at endgame.
El Barto
12-10-2016, 21:23
Would you rather we lynched Newyn, 'khaan?
El Barto
12-10-2016, 21:25
vote: Newyn
C'mon, here's your chance to prove to Renata that you're not the scummo and we all vote Newyn. This will last until I'm done watching Miraculous Ladybug.
El Barto
12-10-2016, 22:02
Well, today's episode is over, so let's go back to vote: seireikhaan
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 22:38
Pizza has taught you well.
Vote: seireikhaan
I think Pizza bussed like hell yesterday to bring Renata completely out of the suspicion list as he knew he was going down but if Renata's scum, we're not winning this anyways since he has the rest of town pocketed.
None of you remaining players really know me but if I was scum, I'd never have made that switch to save Pizza unless it literally wins the game right there.
El Barto
12-10-2016, 22:43
You're mentioning the fact that he once posted his one-hour only let's all vote Monty? He wouldn't have bussed you, Montscumency. Not really, and you know it. He would have just -regreftully and accidentally of course- mislynched as amny townies of possible. I was right about him and I was right about you. Wanna switch votes, Ren, to deprive Monty of his allies? I suppose I'll be back later tonight; if not, tomorrow (thank Visor for the lack of hammers).
El Barto
12-10-2016, 22:44
I think Pizza bussed like hell yesterday to bring Renata completely out of the suspicion list as he knew he was going down but if Renata's scum, we're not winning this anyways since he has the rest of town pocketed.
Where the hell are you getting that Renata's scum?
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 22:50
You're mentioning the fact that he once posted his one-hour only let's all vote Monty? He wouldn't have bussed you, Montscumency. Not really, and you know it. He would have just -regreftully and accidentally of course- mislynched as amny townies of possible. I was right about him and I was right about you. Wanna switch votes, Ren, to deprive Monty of his allies? I suppose I'll be back later tonight; if not, tomorrow (thank Visor for the lack of hammers).
I'm not sure what you're even talking about in this comment. As for what I was saying, I notice that you're faffing around with votes and reasoning in a way reminiscent of Pizza.
El Barto
12-10-2016, 22:53
Monty, every time I accuse you of being scum you either ignore it (just as atpg did) or copy-paste ‘Get off it’ into your posts. Now it seems that you are resorting to the slightly more advanced ‘NO U’ tactic. I accuse your scumpartners of being scum and faffing about and then you say now, El Barto is faffing about. Seriously, man. What gives?
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 22:55
Monty, every time I accuse you of being scum you either ignore it (just as atpg did) or copy-paste ‘Get off it’ into your posts.
Not since Day 2. As for your accusation, you don't really have one beyond "you're scum".
El Barto
12-10-2016, 22:58
Do I have to restate every post I made regarding you?
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 23:03
Do I have to restate every post I made regarding you?
You already have, I'm afraid.
Where the hell are you getting that Renata's scum?
Look at my posts, I havn't felt good about him for a long time and he was sort of subtly nudging Atheotes to save Pizza at eod when I made my biggest mistake this game.
That said, if he's scum, we're losing today not tomorrow since I see no world where he is scum with khaan.
Both of you -- Monty and El Barto -- should really be switching to Newyn right now. El Barto's voting for the guy who according to his logic would have to have been bussing his partner the whole game including up to now. Which OK, fine, but the reasoning isn't really there. It should make more sense to go with Newyn. And Monty's only possible scum team that doesn't include Newyn is the one that includes me and El Barto -- for him to believe that he'd have to believe I'm scum -- might as well vote with Khaan in that event because then you don't have to convince Khaan to switch. But I don't think Monty really believes I'm scum.
Look at my posts, I havn't felt good about him for a long time and he was sort of subtly nudging Atheotes to save Pizza at eod when I made my biggest mistake this game.
That said, if he's scum, we're losing today not tomorrow since I see no world where he is scum with khaan.
I'm female, btw.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 23:20
And Monty's only possible scum team that doesn't include Newyn is the one that includes me and El Barto -- for him to believe that he'd have to believe I'm scum -- might as well vote with Khaan in that event because then you don't have to convince Khaan to switch.
It could be Khaan-Renata, sure enough. :/
Go back and look at me twisting novice's arm to get him to vote Khaan with me on day three. It's not me and Khaan.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 23:22
Under these circumstances you may just get your wish.
If El Barto and BSmith vote with you, and the rest stay their course, then I won't vote to tie you with Newyn.
I'm not sure I understand.
Go back and look at me twisting novice's arm to get him to vote Khaan with me on day three. It's not me and Khaan.
I agree with Renata here. It's never her + Khaan unless they agreed beforehand to a bus the day khaan tied to gain late game credit for Renata.
Which is why I think either lynch today probably loses the game but I can't do much about that since if Renata didn't get lynched yesterday with a confirmed scum on her, she ain't getting lynched today.
I would need your actual vote for Newyn, not just you not voting for me. Are you offering that?
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 23:31
Go back and look at me twisting novice's arm to get him to vote Khaan with me on day three.
What I have to say, as we should all be aware of by now, is with Pizza as scum don (not a role claim), we don't even need bussing as a factor for why you might temporarily wagon against your partner.
If you aren't counted, then its Khaan-Bart-Newyn, and I would not want to lynch Bart today just because he's a common denominator amongst higher suspects.
Bart-Newyn
Renata-Newyn
Khaan-Newyn
All are weakened at the moment. At their expense, non-Newyn teams rise to the fore. I'm doubting now that Newyn is scum singularly or in combination, so Khaan is the superior candidate; I see him as scum individually, and in multiple teams.
Montmorency
12-10-2016, 23:44
Fine, you know what? Screw Barto.
Unvote: Khaan
Vote: Newyn
OK. I can't quite follow your reasoning, but I'm not going to argue.
vote: Newyn
BSmith, when you get here, please say if you'll be available near end of day (which is 37 hrs from now).
Montmorency
12-11-2016, 00:10
I'm basically taking the easy way out: Pizza carried his team and it really is the most straightforward arrangement for his partners. I take a hard bet that you aren't scum with Bart, who maybe just hasn't made much commitment this time around.
Every time I think about the vote going for one of those three I get paranoid about it actually being the other two. This is what sucks about mafia when too many people don't fully play the game of interactions and talk. You're left with nothing to go on. I mean, this is what there is for El Barto reads coming from Khaan:
"El Barto: Like I can read this guy either. Next. "
How do you do anything with that? But maybe I'd feel like this anyway.
On the plus side, this is a masterpiece.
"Newyn: Gave a weird read on the first page which he didn't follow on, and kinda lazed into a DP vote by the end of D1. Low-ish on activity. On the surface, seems scummy, but the reads cannot have been that serious so early in the first day, which makes me suspicious of those latching onto this case. Was correct in his argument with Stork about night choice kill and the wolf discussion. Decent town lean. "
Ugh, just looking at that read makes me want to vote Khaan again. What a mess.
El Barto's willingness to vote Khaan even after it's pointed out that his main scum suspect is voting Khaan really bothers me, though.
El Barto
12-11-2016, 00:51
See posts #1322 and #1324, Renata. At this point I am sure that one Newyn and 'khaan is Monty and atpg's scumpartner. I'll let you choose between them. Back to voting el Newyn then -or not, Monty, as I predicted in those two posts, has switched votes to mess with my mind.
Every time I think about the vote going for one of those three I get paranoid about it actually being the other two. This is what sucks about mafia when too many people don't fully play the game of interactions and talk. You're left with nothing to go on. I mean, this is what there is for El Barto reads coming from Khaan:
"El Barto: Like I can read this guy either. Next. "
How do you do anything with that? But maybe I'd feel like this anyway.
Because he's aping atpg's earlier repeated statements that he can never read me?
Bottom line, I'll vote whomever you want me to vote, Renata-chan. Just don't let Monty fool you by sheeping you all the time.
vote: Newyn (temporarily?)
Montmorency
12-11-2016, 00:56
You were already voting Newyn.
El Barto
12-11-2016, 01:00
Do I have to restate every post I made regarding you?You already have, I'm afraid.
Ye- no, as I say below, you don't read my posts.
It could be Khaan-Renata, sure enough. :/
It's about a fortnight too early for the eggnog, Monty.
You were already voting Newyn.
wtf no, I was voting seireikhaan as of post #1335. Once again, we have proof that you do not read my posts for fear of having to defend yourself.
Montmorency
12-11-2016, 01:07
wtf no, I was voting seireikhaan as of post #1335. Once again, we have proof that you do not read my posts for fear of having to defend yourself.
See post 1336.
El Barto
12-11-2016, 01:08
Yes, yes, no. We both know you're lying there, Monty.
Montmorency
12-11-2016, 01:12
You're right: Post 1336 doesn't exist after all.
Now if we have no more to discuss...
El Barto
12-11-2016, 01:14
You say that I was voting for Newyn. I wasn't, not after 'khaan wimped out. What else are you trying to drive at? And why are you ignoring my answer to #1336 in #1338?
vote: newyn
Apologies but I am traveling right now. Probably won't be here at end of day. I'm fine with Newyn or khaan. Should be able to post on Sunday during the day US time.
Renata. Yes I have been sheeping you but it is mainly because I am VT and have had less time this game to devote than normal. I've read you town pretty much all game and have generally agreed with your analysis.
Montmorency
12-11-2016, 01:26
You say that I was voting for Newyn. I wasn't, not after 'khaan wimped out. What else are you trying to drive at? And why are you ignoring my answer to #1336 in #1338?
You did precisely what I pointed out you had done and were going to do, namely volley between votes.
I replied to 1338 indicating it was incoherent and had nothing to do with anything.
El Barto
12-11-2016, 02:13
Blah, blah, blah.
Renata, decide which of Monty-'khaan-Newyn you want to lynch. Two out of those three are scum and I'll be only too happy to lynch whichever of them is in the lead tomorrow. I'd better dedicate myself to playing rock-paper-scissors by this point. Next day phase I'm voting Monty until he dies. Goodbye, everyone.
Tally as of post 1372:
Lynch votes
4 votes: Newyn (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727844#post2053727844), Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727845#post2053727845), El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727854#post2053727854), BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727864#post2053727864))
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Newyn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727822#post2053727822))
1 votes: Renata (seireikhaan (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727757#post2053727757))
Voting history:
Newyn
GeneralHankerchief
GeneralHankerchief
Renata
Montmorency
GeneralHankerchief
Newyn
GeneralHankerchief
GeneralHankerchief
Newyn
Newyn
Newyn
newyn
Wolves have town pocketed at this point so I'm all for game just ending today with my lynch.
Don't care anymore since game was pretty much lost the moment I decided to save Pizza.
At this point I wouldn't even be the least bit surprised if khaan is town even though his posts the past couple of day is consistent with caught scum not caring.
Wolves have town pocketed at this point so I'm all for game just ending today with my lynch.
Don't care anymore since game was pretty much lost the moment I decided to save Pizza.
I'm hoping the second sentence is true, from a scum-you perspective. The first sentence remains my fear. I keep having visions of dead chat yelling at me for being an idiot, like Monty's just been tunneling Khaan all game, you idiot! If you're right about Newyn, why are you even alive! That sort of thing. :shame:
Scum should let me into LYLO every time. I have no practice at it -- I usually die much earlier regardless of alignment -- and very little confidence. And yet I can't shut up. Bad combination.
Seriously, I should not be here if it's Khaan and Newyn. I just shouldn't be. The only mechanical rationale I can come up with is staying away from bp vest just in case, plus Visor not announcing LYLO, which makes more sense if there's still technically something that can stop the win even after a bad vote. I know I second-guessed myself before on d3, but it's a bit much to assume I'll do it again.
I think it's too late to look into changing votes though (b/c of BSmith unavailability); I don't really have the energy anyway. Too worn out. gg Monty if it's you and El Barto just like Pizza kept saying -- you never did vote him back that I remember, and if there's a flaw in the act, that's it. Shit, El Barto didn't even vote you today, when he absolutely should have.
I feel like whatever I do, I'm wrong and dumb, lol.
The vote tally says it all. I'm getting voted over someone who posted nothing but a vote and some emoticons. Stop bsing about LYLO Renata, we're already there and you got what you aimed for - my mislynch.
That's why I'd rather end it today. The town members on me can say they're tossing up between multiple people been scum but actions speak louder than words - everyone's pretty much decided it's exactly me and Khaan. No other reason why I would ever be lynched over Khaan otherwise.
I see more chance of being wrong about Khaan than about you -- there's not really any Monty-Khaan equity for instance, while you-Monty would work fine, all else being equal. Barto-Khaan worries me some. I talked myself out of it somewhere up above but I can't remember why. This is why I feel like no matter what I do, it's wrong.
Montmorency
12-11-2016, 22:22
There's already a quota for angst-posting. Why is so-and-so alive? Why is BSmith alive, being your left arm and never more than squinted at? Survival is not the narrative itself, but it can tie it together and call for consistencies. No one has really delved into that and nightkills in our game, but if you want to liven up the EOD with WIFOM the space is there.
you never did vote him back that I remember, and if there's a flaw in the act, that's it.
Why should I have voted Barto? I was never interested in lynching him, and at this point the mechanics of the roulette aren't sufficient to shift my ground. The single worst point for Barto is that he hasn't truly been interested in lynching anyone; OMGUS hardly factors.
there's not really any Monty-Khaan equity for instance
But Khaan was wrong about his lynchability, wasn't he (when still speaking English)? After the middle of D3, Khaan has only had a base vote of 1.5 on him, 1 from me and 0.5 from your potentiality. If you're going to entertain Barto-Monty, Khaan-Monty is not a leap.
I see more chance of being wrong about Khaan than about you -- there's not really any Monty-Khaan equity for instance, while you-Monty would work fine, all else being equal. Barto-Khaan worries me some. I talked myself out of it somewhere up above but I can't remember why. This is why I feel like no matter what I do, it's wrong.
So to you, I have more wolf equity than someone who has deliberately chosen to post nothing over the past few days.
If you are actually town and thinking this, then yeah, I'm glad wolves win today.
But Khaan was wrong about his lynchability, wasn't he (when still speaking English)? After the middle of D3, Khaan has only had a base vote of 1.5 on him, 1 from me and 0.5 from your potentiality. If you're going to entertain Barto-Monty, Khaan-Monty is not a leap.
Yeah, my discounting of you-Khaan comes from earlier in the game. I liked you switching to his wagon after Zack voted him d2.
I'll try not to be so angsty.
So to you, I have more wolf equity than someone who has deliberately chosen to post nothing over the past few days.
If you are actually town and thinking this, then yeah, I'm glad wolves win today.
:shame:
But Pizza said I was being silly, too.
El Barto
12-12-2016, 02:00
But pizza was scum.
I'll be back tomorrow to point out how stubborn you have been today or congratulate you on fooling the rest of town. It's obvious I'll have as much luck talking to a brick wall at this point.
El Barto
12-12-2016, 03:25
Whom is that rant directed at?
Not intended as a rant but it was aimed at Renata. She pretty much came out today intending to get me lynched.
She achieved her goal so now she's pretty much shutting down any further conversation with statements like the one she made previously.
El Barto
12-12-2016, 05:11
And thus you maintain that she, of all people, is the remaining scum?
And thus you maintain that she, of all people, is the remaining scum?
Yes, I still think she's scum but at the same time I know that what Pizza did yesterday made her almost unlynchable now meaning game's over in all but name if she's scum.
That's why I'm voting Khaan today because I have to hope that he's scum as the lynch today is always going to be me or him.
El Barto
12-12-2016, 05:34
Or Monty if you'd listened to me in time. But why would you lynch your scumpartner?
Or Monty if you'd listened to me in time. But why would you lynch your scumpartner?
I'm prepared to lynch anyone that's not me at this point because I know lynching me guarantees a loss for town so even a long shoy is better than me from my point of view.
My lynch preference at this point though is:
Renata
Khaan
BSmith
Anyone else
No change in tally, just making it easier to access by putting it on a new page.
Tally as of post 1392:
Lynch votes
4 votes: Newyn (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727844#post2053727844), Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727845#post2053727845), El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727854#post2053727854), BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727864#post2053727864))
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Newyn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727822#post2053727822))
1 votes: Renata (seireikhaan (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287&p=2053727757#post2053727757))
Voting history:
Newyn
GeneralHankerchief
GeneralHankerchief
Renata
Montmorency
GeneralHankerchief
Newyn
GeneralHankerchief
GeneralHankerchief
Newyn
Newyn
Newyn
newyn
wolves win
newyn dead townie
renata
khaan
bsmith all endgamed townies
el barto
monty
alive wolves
Damn. I was right at the very end. Good acting, guys.
Sorry town. I tried. :(
I think on the whole I was more of a harm than a help what with reading Monty town so early, letting Pizza off the hook, etc. I'd appreciate tips, things I should have seen and done differently.
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/aFmRTmE6fpeV
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/RVpfecrzNj5py
quicktopics
zack was the only PR (I accidentally deleted the pm)
but he could give
1 shot vig - stork d2. stork holstered
1 shot vest - renata d1
1 shot protect
1 shot bus drive
1 shot motion detector
(mightve been one more thing idr)
el barto was a 1 shot n2 vig
monty was a roleblocker
atpg vanilla
rest of town vanilla
I called the game because nothing could prevent a mafia victory (and they had submitted orders)
thanks all for playing
Thank for the game, Visor. :)
I really am bad at LYLO!
I think on the whole I was more of a harm than a help what with reading Monty town so early, letting Pizza off the hook, etc. I'd appreciate tips, things I should have seen and done differently.
i thought you played quite well on the whole
i think the unfortunate part of the game is people always let pizza off the hook and people refuse to read monty and el barto because they act weirdly
el bartos town game of doing nothing helps him with his scum game of... also doing nothing - (i know this can seem kind of mean, but its more that neither of his games are super invested in the results of what happens on a day to day basis)
though i think his scum game he cares even less
monty hard defended too many townies imo which should bring up the idea of TMI/PIS because he didn't die either or was a serious candidate for lynching
just thoughts to consider (for the wolf side of things fmpov)
not to say neither of you played well, just my comments
obviously earned your victory
sometimes i like to reread the thread and see who really cares about the outcome and who really doesn't
a lot of the time you will catch 'safe' mafia by seeing those who don't care overly much
el barto is definitely one of those kind of scum
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 13:12
Thank you Visor for hosting!
Thank you very much fellow substitute players, for keeping the game relatively playable even with all the sub outs.
Thank you town team for your valiant efforts. Congrats to every townie who guessed any of us correctly at any point, especially if you voted there.
Thank you fellow scums for bringing it home.
(hug) to everyone who needs it.
~:pimp: for the cigar.
So saved a wolf and read every town as scum. Guess if I'm going to be wrong I might as well be spectacularly wrong about everything.
i thought you played quite well on the whole
i think the unfortunate part of the game is people always let pizza off the hook and people refuse to read monty and el barto because they act weirdly
Pizza got me on day three when he stopped being a jerk and started appealing to my paranoia like a normal person. I thought I could have the best of both worlds by lynching Al Sips first, but I took the wrong lessons from it. I did see some weirdness with Monty's attitude toward Pizza and Khaan the last couple of days but chose to ignore it. Barto pretty much had me fooled right up until the end when he showed the cracks I pointed out. I don't know if I'd ever have switched to him last day if there'd ever been a real opportunity to, but with 2/3 living townies reading me mafia and the third unavailable there was pretty much no point in thinking about it.
I want to tell Khaan and Newyn to stop acting scummy but they probably think the same about me!
Need more WIM, I guess!
So saved a wolf and read every town as scum. Guess if I'm going to be wrong I might as well be spectacularly wrong about everything.
that vote switch made me so sad :(
I couldn't believe it was real, lol. "You're not scum because you can't be scum 3x in a row"? :)
I don't think Monty or El Barto ever got a single vote from a townie. You know it's a good scum team when Pizza's the easiest read on it.
This was one of the worst games I've played in awhile so sorry town.
I literally forgot to turn up for every eod except for the one that mattered.
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 13:28
So saved a wolf and read every town as scum. Guess if I'm going to be wrong I might as well be spectacularly wrong about everything.
(hug)
I know how much of a monster player you are. It feels good to actually be able to get one over on you. I don't anticipate I'd be able to do so often. We respect each other too much to be that easy a mark.
If I were a townie, I would have loved you forever for that save. No one saves me when I'm town.
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 13:32
I couldn't believe it was real, lol. "You're not scum because you can't be scum 3x in a row"? :)
I don't think Monty or El Barto ever got a single vote from a townie. You know it's a good scum team when Pizza's the easiest read on it.
I was hoping I'd be an elite townie sub-in, but the first person to wig out this game was mafia. I coulda been a contender! I coulda been somebody! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz6YMrJt7xk)
That messes with your rand chances. It's not rand anymore if it's a scummo subbing out and they need a body.
It really would have been a pleasure to town with you. Sorry I had to be evil again.
Dat's OK. You're pretty much the only read I got right the whole game long, so I can't be mad.
From that Giraffe game to this, eek.
Montmorency
12-12-2016, 13:47
I rolled scum 2/3 of the last games, and both times with Pizza: it probably deserves a silly name. I anticipated him revving up and of course he 'forced' me to work hard after reaching full spin on D3. I feel like I was better-prepared for it this time than in Futurmafia, though of course that game was longer and fairly role-heavy. To be frank, Pizza largely delivered the touchdown for us to run down the clock. I can't deliver that kind of workflow.
El Barto may have been a bit too consistent in his full performance, which seems to be one of the things that cracked at the very end.
Visor is right about me on townies in terms of development for endgame alternatives, but in terms of the thread I only remember defending DP101, which wasn't difficult for me to channel (I defended atheotes very briefly early D1). Maybe it seemed like I was buddying Renata - if so, it was due to her vigor in driving the game, her compliance with many of our goals, and her being fun to play with. Thank you and good game Renata.
She lived because we never saw the need to test the bulletproof, though it was largely unsustainable for the endgame alternatives I mentioned. After Pizza was saved we almost felt like hog wild.
Good game from Visor and all.
It was so cozy in your pocket. Sigh.
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 14:06
Remember, you were only endgamed, so technically, we were far too sentimental about you to actually kill you.
<3 you all too. Thanks for running the game/thanks for playing with me.
Montmorency
12-12-2016, 14:19
To expound more on choosing to defend DP101: it made perfect sense to me to do so from (my) town POV.
I believe what I said for motivations was correct; the problems that arose had to do with PIS but in the sense that I could see the direction the thread discussions were moving and after mid D3 I had trouble figuring a way to adapt my theory to the changing circumstances as a townie would. In the end, too complicated, so I took the lazier route of minor modifications. By D4 it was already difficult to articulate how this theory would apply as a function of scum teams, and I was beginning to argue myself into a corner by admitting that Newyn-Khaan-Pizza was looking defunct. That I wasn't mercifully killed that last night in place of atheotes was perhaps the largest tell against me in the game.
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 14:39
I think clearing atheotes that hard by practically begging for his vote had the unintended side effect of also giving several other people a basic explanation for why they could still possibly be alive as town.
"Reasons why you're still alive" are an overlooked component of scumming. Like being the claimed tracker in Futurama or a claimed weak investigator in Ciretako, or a claimed vig here, why are you not dead is an important question that always needs to be addressed.
Mafia want to avoid ever being categorized as "must-murder" targets. If they are, they need a damned good reason to continue not being the murder.
I do want to say I was trying to go for something more useful, and it wasn't my intended idea. But I don't think anyone lynches atheotes after that round, so it was important to take him out.
The other important concept of "who can possibly be my partner" needs to be as many of the live players as possible. All the murders were aimed at removing people from the game who would never, ever look like my partner if I died first. That seems simple, but it is often times overlooked in favor of power role hunting or strong player killing.
The effect of the lynch of a scumbag should, in the best case scenario, make it harder for town to solve it, or at least, not any easier. The wrong people should be spewed townie, not the right people, or ideally, no one should be. Any groups of people who are clearing each other (Zack/Stork) or wouldn't look like my scum partner ever (Scarlett/Sipsclar/atheotes) were more important to kill than anyone else. You always assume you're going to finally pay for all the bad things you've done, but the end result should be a board relatively free of cleared townies.
If mashes have done anything to improve my understanding of scum theory, it is: Do not murder your mislynches. And don't look so townie that it becomes a problem for people to grasp why you're still breathing.
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 14:52
Also lol me for thinking Renata was a tracker.
To my credit, I played it like it was possible she was a tracker, watcher, bulletproof, or SK. I chose the option that defeated all of those possibilities just in case I was wrong on any of them.
Block there, kill elsewhere. It can't go very wrong. Just play it safe.
If nothing else, I've set myself up well to be able to do nonsensical counterproductive things as mafia, should I ever find the courage. :)
What's a mash?
Montmorency
12-12-2016, 14:56
Also lol me for thinking Renata was a tracker.
Finally I did want to ask in-thread something to verify that all the discussion on Pizza was ultimately backed up by a role result (there were subtle indications that Renata had nothing beyond Pizza's spew), but I'm glad I just ignored that line of discussion. Nothing to be gained from raising the issue, especially when so far only Pizza has been talking about it.
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 14:56
Btw its highly unusual for someone with a vest to claim it under no pressure.
...
She's playing games with your heart.
Me, to Monty in the scum qt. Lol me so much.
I get it now. She was trying to handshake with Zack's role. That's not a usual situation to find myself in though.
I was trying to find me a townie or two. So sad you kept killing them.
Montmorency
12-12-2016, 15:00
I also refrained, early in D3 before Pizza claimed, from suggesting that one of Stork or Zack killed the other (i.e. vig). It would not have added anything from either town or scum game.
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 15:03
If nothing else, I've set myself up well to be able to do nonsensical counterproductive things as mafia, should I ever find the courage. :)
What's a mash?
They are generally very large, 40/50 players to 80 players, something like that, where the scum team is roughly 1/3 of the total number of players.
As compensation, the town has Shots.
During the Day phase, for a couple select hours each day, people are allowed to take shots at one another publicly. The shots have like a 15 percent chance of actually hitting, and no guarantee it kills the person it hits, due to daytime protective roles, bulletproof, or whatever.
A dozen people probably die every day before the lynch even happens. You can kill multiple scumbags in a day phase, and you pretty much have to in order for town to have a chance at winning the game.
Town usually has multiple cop peeks in play, doctor, day vigilante, night vigilante, and so forth. Scums are similarly loaded up, day vigilante in addition to the team kill, night vigilante, certain-night-only vigilantes, roleblockers, role cops, day protective roles, night protective roles, triple-voter, etc.
They can be fun, but they're also way more chaotic than a regular game. They also tend to run some 10,000-40,000 posts or something crazy like that, in the span of a week or so. The game, while massive, is typically over for most players within a few real life days.
You don't bother to try to read every post. You note when the shots are open each day phase, you show up, and you try to shoot a scumbag (or a townie, if you're scum), and walk away happy that you caused someone's untimely death.
Probably the only game where a vanilla townie can personally execute more than one scumbag by their own hand, with no assistance, vote or otherwise. It's rare, but it can happen.
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 15:05
Your attitude basically has to be "killin people is fun" and not take it too seriously.
Sounds promising. I did sign up for that PR game Dp was talking about in the hopes I'd be a serial killer, lol. Watch me be town seer. Bah!
GG all, thanks for hosting Visor.
GG, everyone. It was an interesting game, and it was very comfortable being able to observe and sub in without being emotionally invested in its outcome. And well done to everyone on handling three replacements without the game feeling like a train wreck.
Fun thought: In an epic alternate reality, Newyn fake claims inventor on the final day, and town goes on to win. :)
seireikhaan
12-12-2016, 17:57
And here I was sure that Pizza/Renata was a bus... looks like I couldn't read a thing this game, shame that. Thanks for hosting, Visor. :bow:
Winston Hughes
12-12-2016, 18:27
why are you not dead is an important question that always needs to be addressed.
https://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/smilies/nope.gif (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/WinstonHughes/media/smilies/nope.gif.html)
Wow, Barto and Monty? Never would have guessed that, you guys did a GOAT-level job of distancing from each other in a way that it made it look like you could never be scum together.
Also Khaan and Newyn were scummier than you were by leaps and bounds, but that's another story.
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 19:57
GG, everyone. It was an interesting game, and it was very comfortable being able to observe and sub in without being emotionally invested in its outcome. And well done to everyone on handling three replacements without the game feeling like a train wreck.
Fun thought: In an epic alternate reality, Newyn fake claims inventor on the final day, and town goes on to win. :)
Your next challenge is to have me rand town in a game with you and be confident I actually am town with the same ease that you seem to sniff out my bullshit.
XD
Do this and ye shall be greatly rewarded, maybe. Don't ask me, I'm not in charge of the universe. Yet.
I have to admit I'm curious what your town game looks like. :) Do you have any past town games that are good reads?
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 21:24
I can't remember the last time I was an effective townie. I'll look though.
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 21:41
I was maybe 50% effective, 50% terrible in this game (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?151575-IKEA-mafia-Concluded). But I was a townie and we did win, and I did get murdered, probably only because I was a mason, so bad example. I did get a ping of scummy off of GH on day 1 and pushed it hard, but I got distracted by the shiny. 4 scums and a SK needed to be lynched/vigged.
I was town and ineffective, even though I had good reads here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?151262-Mafia-v-Cult-Concluded). Surprisingly not recruited in a cult game, which is usually impossible. Town v mafia v cult. I blame less active town for our struggles there.
I don't play as often as I used to, or I'd have more town games to show you. Here's a hydra game (http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/4686-Hydra-Game-4-The-Perils-of-Australia) where I was town with Sooh and found a scum day one, once again failing to convince anyone.
That should be a sample of my most recent town work.
though i think his scum game he cares even less
...
it is an interesting juxtaposition that he cares so much about the votes while simultaneously not caring who is lynched
wut
people should care who get lynched
how am i the one with a "really weird attitude"
like you don't find anything wrong with him not being able to find anything to say other than commenting on incorrect tallies? how is that such a weird observation for me to make??
To expound more on choosing to defend DP101: it made perfect sense to me to do so from (my) town POV.
I believe what I said for motivations was correct; the problems that arose had to do with PIS but in the sense that I could see the direction the thread discussions were moving and after mid D3 I had trouble figuring a way to adapt my theory to the changing circumstances as a townie would. In the end, too complicated, so I took the lazier route of minor modifications. By D4 it was already difficult to articulate how this theory would apply as a function of scum teams, and I was beginning to argue myself into a corner by admitting that Newyn-Khaan-Pizza was looking defunct. That I wasn't mercifully killed that last night in place of atheotes was perhaps the largest tell against me in the game.
I'd argue that your "town POV" is meaningless when you're not town. Your strategy as a wolf isn't to mirror your town game, it's to keep your team alive and kill townies. Though you won so what do I know.
anyways I don't think I played particularly well
gg wolves
gg renata
They knew what they were doing when they killed you, Zack.
Askthepizzaguy
12-12-2016, 22:21
I think everyone on the scum team admitted to being scum at various points in time. I also opened the game with lolcats, an open admission that I was scum, and I even hardclaimed neutral survivor to break the curse.
@Visor (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=66432)
gg your game is over
Montmorency
12-12-2016, 22:36
As you say it's been a while since we've seen you hero-towning, but again the impression with this game is that as scum you begin reserved and fairly benign towards direct threats toward you, only to take a sharp plunge into full Palpatine mode. You raise the stakes more than is reasonable for your non-role/network town play. Perhaps you love being evil a tad too much? You can only convert so many Skywalkers per play. :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBLcxXR1PMw
Al Sipsclar
12-12-2016, 22:40
Thanks Visor for hosting, GG everyone! Monty should finally get his Emmy.
Sorry GH/khaan for not reading you correctly.
El Barto
12-12-2016, 23:12
My lynch preference at this point though is:
Renata
Khaan
BSmith
Anyone else
That would be Monty and myself, hilariously.
el bartos town game of doing nothing helps him with his scum game of... also doing nothing - (i know this can seem kind of mean, but its more that neither of his games are super invested in the results of what happens on a day to day basis)
though i think his scum game he cares even less
Well, frankly I have gotten so used to being a scum or a vanilla townie (never a power role) that I forgot how to power-town until I finally drew a power role a month or two ago and found I could actually lead town -my vanilla townie and scum games have become indistinguishable, as in both I just aim to survive.
Remember, you were only endgamed, so technically, we were far too sentimental about you to actually kill you.
For the record, I did state the intention to ‘welcome’ Renata on N1, as I felt certain that Zack would be targetted by others as is lawful custom.
What's a mash?
If my understanding of USian English is sufficient, it's boiled potatoes plus butter, milk, salt and a little pepper.
Wow, Barto and Monty? Never would have guessed that, you guys did a GOAT-level job of distancing from each other in a way that it made it look like you could never be scum together.
I don't know what GOAT means, but I didn't know Wytch at first, then when atpg came in I just gave him up as lynched by D3 at the latest (sorry pizza!) and so went off for distancing myself from Monty so that it would be implausible for both of us to be on the same team -a lynch or vig on either would clear the other.
I think everyone on the scum team admitted to being scum at various points in time.
I believe I did claim on D1 that I wasn't going to be the usual unhelpful townie nor the newer helpful townie but a useless medium ground, and then I've stuck to it. :D
Also I'll take the opportunity to shill my game (http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/5570-Signups-Rock-Paper-Scissors-tournament!-(gambling-allowed)) here and promise everyone with the exception of Kiwis (I like Sprig so he gets a pass, though) that they can be allowed for the one last spot remaining.
seireikhaan
12-13-2016, 00:11
Thanks Visor for hosting, GG everyone! Monty should finally get his Emmy.
Sorry GH/khaan for not reading you correctly.
Eh, it happens. I spent the entire game misreading everyone, if it makes you feel any better.
Montmorency
12-13-2016, 00:14
Khaan, why did you spend the last day playing smiley charades?
I don't know what GOAT means,
Greatest Of All Time
That would be Monty and myself, hilariously.
Well, frankly I have gotten so used to being a scum or a vanilla townie (never a power role) that I forgot how to power-town until I finally drew a power role a month or two ago and found I could actually lead town -my vanilla townie and scum games have become indistinguishable, as in both I just aim to survive.
For the record, I did state the intention to ‘welcome’ Renata on N1, as I felt certain that Zack would be targetted by others as is lawful custom.
If my understanding of USian English is sufficient, it's boiled potatoes plus butter, milk, salt and a little pepper.
I don't know what GOAT means, but I didn't know Wytch at first, then when atpg came in I just gave him up as lynched by D3 at the latest (sorry pizza!) and so went off for distancing myself from Monty so that it would be implausible for both of us to be on the same team -a lynch or vig on either would clear the other.
I believe I did claim on D1 that I wasn't going to be the usual unhelpful townie nor the newer helpful townie but a useless medium ground, and then I've stuck to it. :D
Also I'll take the opportunity to shill my game (http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/5570-Signups-Rock-Paper-Scissors-tournament!-(gambling-allowed)) here and promise everyone with the exception of Kiwis (I like Sprig so he gets a pass, though) that they can be allowed for the one last spot remaining.
you do know that when you are a vanilla townie you WANT to draw a nightkill right?
Montmorency
12-13-2016, 03:06
you do know that when you are a vanilla townie you WANT to draw a nightkill right?
:creep:
El Barto
12-13-2016, 03:19
Khaan, why did you spend the last day playing smiley charades?
Heh, this is a worthwhile question. It reminded me of t om from MU.
Greatest Of All Time
Oh. I'll take the praise and run.
you do know that when you are a vanilla townie you WANT to draw a nightkill right?:creep:
How would I be alive to survive the game and actually contribute? VT El Barto is hardly ever useful before D3 or D4.
you want to keep PRs alive, it is a team game
Askthepizzaguy
12-13-2016, 04:03
Snobby town power roles, thinking they're more powerful than the rest of us. From my point of view, the town power roles are evil.
How would I be alive to survive the game and actually contribute? VT El Barto is hardly ever useful before D3 or D4.
Eh, from experience, VT El Barto usually isn't all that useful endgame either, he's usually a prime mislynch candidate
From my point of view, the town power roles are evil.
WELL THEN YOU ARE LOST!
El Barto
12-13-2016, 23:33
Snobby town power roles, thinking they're more powerful than the rest of us. From my point of view, the town power roles are evil.
Only a Sith talks in absolutes.
Eh, from experience, VT El Barto usually isn't all that useful endgame either, he's usually a prime mislynch candidate
Two words:
Impending.
Retribution.
Two words:
Impending.
Retribution.
https://i.imgur.com/0mw1I8e.gif
That wasn't entirely you, though. :p
atheotes
12-14-2016, 12:14
Well played wolves! I was totally fooled by Monty.
Thanks for hosting Visor.
i thought you played quite well on the whole
i think the unfortunate part of the game is people always let pizza off the hook and people refuse to read monty and el barto because they act weirdly
I am very guilty of this :shame:
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