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Whoooooosh.
Good to know I am, indeed, an idiot.
Cuthillius
06-22-2017, 23:01
You know, I'm actually becoming gradually mroe ok with a Champ lynch. Him just popping in really does not feel that typical of his play.
no, it is
he's a serial lurker
not an effort guy
crimson_snow
06-22-2017, 23:02
Good to know I am, indeed, an idiot.
I wouldn't go that far, but that post was 5% to call out people not playing at all, and 95% to make the Unvote joke.
crimson_snow
06-22-2017, 23:04
no, it is
he's a serial lurker
not an effort guy
How does that reconcile with like, the enthusiasm he had at game start though. Read his ISO, it's only 12 posts. I linked it earlier - not sure if the link still works.
If it was more like BSmith or Autolycus or someone who just isn't posting at all I'd call it not indicative, but coming in all excited and posting rapidly with fluff/jokes but then when the actual game starts....just, stopping, feels pretty off.
crimson_snow
06-22-2017, 23:08
I don't think I support a Csargo lynch. But I always tend to be gunshy about lynching active players on day one especially in a game plagued by inactives.
crimson_snow
06-22-2017, 23:10
I think my problem is that I don't necessarily super disagree with a push on DP, I just don't like the way some people went about the push. So I'm having a lot of trouble cleanly separating the two things.
oh right end of school something something
Granted, I'm pretty sure that was like 24 hours ago.
Vote: Sooh
Cuthillius
06-22-2017, 23:16
I don't think I support a Csargo lynch. But I always tend to be gunshy about lynching active players on day one especially in a game plagued by inactives.
would you prefer lynching active scummy person or inactive ~rand person
Cuthillius
06-22-2017, 23:18
Granted, I'm pretty sure that was like 24 hours ago.
Vote: Sooh
...and?
i'm not lynching a one poster, and she did leave a legit excuse
crimson_snow
06-22-2017, 23:20
Granted, I'm pretty sure that was like 24 hours ago.
Vote: Sooh
I'm not...sure how productive that is going to be.
I'm fully aware my own vote might not be productive either, just there is a difference between Champ's drop off and someone not really posting at all due to real life things.
Cuthillius
06-22-2017, 23:21
How does that reconcile with like, the enthusiasm he had at game start though. Read his ISO, it's only 12 posts. I linked it earlier - not sure if the link still works.
If it was more like BSmith or Autolycus or someone who just isn't posting at all I'd call it not indicative, but coming in all excited and posting rapidly with fluff/jokes but then when the actual game starts....just, stopping, feels pretty off.
it doesn't necessarily, but enthusiasm to not isn't really a universal wolf tell, not that those exist
i
don't think he's TOWNY
but i think there are several people that'd be better lynches here
crimson_snow
06-22-2017, 23:24
would you prefer lynching active scummy person or inactive ~rand person
It's not binary. I tend to prefer lynching low-medium content posters I think are very likely to be a wolf, and less likely to be able to more clearly clear or condemn themselves by virtue of having higher activity in future days.
I want to at least pressure Champ because I think there's a mindset discrepancy between his early game enthusiasm his actual game content. Plus he just popped in to respond to a joke without actually making a game relevant post. It's not just an inactive, it's someone deliberately not playing the game who looked excited to do so.
ignore that then
it's mostly been that, you've mentioned a few other people as consideration but apparently are scumreading DP SO highly that you're not even considering anyone else
look, you quoted those posts, yeah? i don't see how those outweigh the many towny posts he's made
there are a few posts that are scummy
they're not even that scummy
but you are acting like they are, and bringing them up like they're worth more than they are
it COULD just be that i vastly disagree with you, but that just seems
wrong or off or something
but i just see a massive discrepancy between your stated confidence in your reads and the basis you're grounding them on
Clearly we just view it differently. I don't view the townie posts with a huge amount of weight, especially after being pressured, because if Dp101 is a skilled player, and I think he is, it's not terribly hard to fake early on. So yeah I don't think it's unreasonable to view him in the way that I am. You can lynch me for it, but I've not seen anything convincing enough to definitively say he's town.
I just disagree with you on a fundamental level. That's a terrible reason to vote for someone though imo.
Cuth is quite strong town from my perspective right now. Also hate the vote on Sooh.
Mobile posting: exoect errors.
Brief insight: if Dp101 is scum, I find it unlikely that novice is on his team. I saw at least one post by novice that looks like too convincing a case for Dp101 and novice to be on the same team.
And Cuthillius I don't think I've greatly improved over the 4 games I've played since the one on CFC. If I remember right, I was killed n1 that game.
Plus, you were around to see me royally mess up Pokemon, so I'd say I haven't been given enough time to show how bad I can be.
Of the lurkers, I'm most comfortable taking down Monty. Any takers?
Vote: Montmorency.
Clearly we just view it differently. I don't view the townie posts with a huge amount of weight, especially after being pressured, because if Dp101 is a skilled player, and I think he is, it's not terribly hard to fake early on. So yeah I don't think it's unreasonable to view him in the way that I am. You can lynch me for it, but I've not seen anything convincing enough to definitively say he's town.
I just disagree with you on a fundamental level. That's a terrible reason to vote for someone though imo.
So, what would I have to do for you to actually accept that I'm towny? Because while I appreciate the compliment, being told that I'm a good enough player that I could fake anything towny does not exactly fill me with confidence with regards to you getting out of this push on me anytime soon.
You know, I'm actually becoming gradually mroe ok with a Champ lynch. Him just popping in really does not feel that typical of his play.
This is what he did in ATPG's game. His early game was off though.
So, what would I have to do for you to actually accept that I'm towny? Because while I appreciate the compliment, being told that I'm a good enough player that I could fake anything towny does not exactly fill me with confidence with regards to you getting out of this push on me anytime soon.
I'll iso you when I get home and see how it looks with a different day. I'm considering Monty or crimson_snow, what do you think of them?
This is like the antithesis of Sooh in pizza's game, which doesn't inspire confidence.
Winston Hughes
06-22-2017, 23:37
Vote: Logic
The background is that he was the host of the recent game where I randed a miller-type role, in which I opened with the same hardclaim bit as I opened with here. Discussions around that claim ended up dominating the whole first day, culminating in me getting mislynched, but not before I correctly picked out several townies and scumbags based on their reactions. He and I then spent a while talking about the day's events in dead chat.
In this context, his reaction here looks bad to me. It was like he felt he needed to react in some way, but got caught between playing along with the claim and showing that he knew it wasn't for real.
Then there was Manasi's reaction, which felt like he was giving us both town credit far too cheaply, and made me wonder if he'd got some inside line from scumchat.
And looking at their ISOs - and Manasi's weak (and delayed) response to my question - I'm not seeing any great reason to townread either of them, or to doubt that they might be scumbuddies.
Granted, I'm pretty sure that was like 24 hours ago.
Vote: Sooh
I :sweetheart: you, but I don't like this.
I'll iso you when I get home and see how it looks with a different day. I'm considering Monty or crimson_snow, what do you think of them?
This is like the antithesis of Sooh in pizza's game, which doesn't inspire confidence.
Monty just has nothing, at all. He seems completely different to any of his prior games, so I have no idea what to really think of him. Crimson is a terrible option, they are pure as the driven snow. Try again.
Sup I'm going to Wonder Woman
I would usually say that I'll read later but we all know I won't
Going to see Wonder Woman
Winston Hughes
06-22-2017, 23:44
Aww, man, I was hoping that 'to Wonder Woman' was some kind of wild gambit. :laugh4:
Going to see Wonder Woman
So, you turn up, just to say that you won't turn up. Great.
crimson_snow
06-22-2017, 23:50
Eh.
Probably makes Champ a sub-optimal lynch though I'd cry approximately zero tears if he were to die mysteriously in the night for reasons.
I'm out for a while will be back in a few hours well before end of day.
So, you turn up, just to say that you won't turn up. Great.
Yes
Monty just has nothing, at all. He seems completely different to any of his prior games, so I have no idea what to really think of him. Crimson is a terrible option, they are pure as the driven snow. Try again.
Crimson tone good, but content was questionable from what I remember.
An excuse that excuses one day of a 48h phase is fine
never coming back is the issue.
K i n d a r i d i c u l o u s i m o
Also COMPLETELY not okay with a Monty lynch.
If we're lynching a low poster, it's gonna be Sooh and not Monty.
Yeah. Sorry about lurking today. I'm on vacation through this weekend so things are a little off. That and I am never that talkative let alone on D1 when there really isn't much solid to go on other than tone and meta analysis, which absent gross incompetence usually isn't indicative. Most of my time is just going to keeping up. But at least the noise ratio is lower this game than other recent D1s. Don't expect much from me the next couple of days.
Will attempt to catch up.
Any excuse for not being here is just that, an excuse. No excuses anymore though.
500 posts. I can do this.
Sorry in advance if I bring up points that have already been discussed to death.
An excuse that excuses one day of a 48h phase is fine
never coming back is the issue.
K i n d a r i d i c u l o u s i m o
Also COMPLETELY not okay with a Monty lynch.
If we're lynching a low poster, it's gonna be Sooh and not Monty.
Monty def your scumbuddy huh. I see.
Cuthillius
06-23-2017, 00:14
An excuse that excuses one day of a 48h phase is fine
never coming back is the issue.
K i n d a r i d i c u l o u s i m o
Also COMPLETELY not okay with a Monty lynch.
If we're lynching a low poster, it's gonna be Sooh and not Monty.
let's say we lynch someone who's at least moderately active
who'd you prefer if that were the case
let's say we lynch someone who's at least moderately active
who'd you prefer if that were the case
not csargo
not atpg
not logic/winston
not crimson
not monty in italics
Cuthillius
06-23-2017, 00:16
unvote: for now
Cuthillius
06-23-2017, 00:17
not csargo
not atpg
not logic/winston
not crimson
not monty in italics
so, like
nobody who's been on the table all day except dp?
crimson_snow
06-23-2017, 00:20
so, like
nobody who's been on the table all day except dp?
This kind of feels disingenuous. Champ, El Barto, Jowy have all gotten serious votes that I can recall off top of head, while I think Csargo is only one of those that has.
Has BSmith even moved his vote once?
Cuthillius
06-23-2017, 00:20
day end at 11:30 manasi
i have to go soon, won't be back for eod
Cuthillius
06-23-2017, 00:23
This kind of feels disingenuous. Champ, El Barto, Jowy have all gotten serious votes that I can recall off top of head, while I think Csargo is only one of those that has.
not talking about getting votes
talking about players that should ever be lynched today
day end at 11:30 manasi
i have to go soon, won't be back for eod
fzzt
Logic's first postings are weird. First that vote on the Miller claim, then he's obviously in the thread posting gifs, but misses a question directed at him.
Could vote here.
crimson_snow
06-23-2017, 00:26
Popping back out. Will be back around in a couple hours until EoD.
Manasi prolly town.
El Barto ehhhhh
Crimson Snow cares enough about the game on the first couple of pages to be town.
Cuthillius
06-23-2017, 00:30
sooh decent chance town
no lynchee there
Cuthillius
06-23-2017, 00:32
vote:montmorency
I has tireds, but my divine insight sees a Logic, El Barto, Pizza scum team.
Probably just my tireds though.
Not going to get on Winston's case yet or Sooh's or Auto's or BSmith's for not posting much yet.
This game and this site too casual to press on that kind of thing, so enjoy your free round. I want to see a process I can understand, and 4 townies and a scum lean by midday D2 from each of you. 2 townies a day is not hard to find.
Townie list:
Manasi
Crimson Snow
Suspicious individuals:
ATPG
Logic
El Barto
Looks like I need to think more on the townies.
Prolly going to add Fredwood to townies. Need one more to complete my homework early.
Pls can people be here and talk to me?
It's like less than 4 hours until DL and I just want to discuss my leans with people.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 00:55
If you lynch inside my townies, or me, after the day I had today.
Why is no one voting Jowy?
I'm about to put my vote back on dp101. But I honestly don't get how you guys are letting an obviously fake process like his fly.
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 00:55
To those upset that I haven't shown myself enough, see the last game. The burst in activity around midday leaves me cold.
As of page 6, my impression is this is super-scum Pizza and DP is town. I don't want to antagonize potential scum Pizza, especially with unread content, so I've stayed away from the game for the last day.
If we have 3.5 hours, I guess I can catch up, but whatever.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:06
lol
So what I saw with Barts vote and dismissal was a null push and asking non-solving questions? I don't see how, I literally said he was my top scummread today and stated why, then asked if I should rethink the read (no one has even addressed it outside of novice). I thought it was based on his lax pressure vote and ignoring of my response (which I thought was a bit scum), then cleared 3 people that I likely think are town. I have no input on the meta-analysis that is rampant currently, and I still gave my strongest reads with rather specific reasons for them.
And I am scum hunting, this is why I'm asking you this question. In my mind it was super specific in the reasons I was voting and not voting for those people (with the exception of CS),for you to say it wasn't either means there's a disconnect either intentionally or unintentionally. If it was a bad read for bad reasons, I can handle the critique, it's kind of why I'm playing here, to actually get better.
Fredwood didn't do anything since I slightly scum read him but post this and peace out.
No one followed up on this guy either.
This is a textbook flinch.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:10
I'm suspicious of Dp101 but don't feel that the full focus on him is good for us. If he flips town, what have we really achieved today?
Jowy "suspicious" of dp101 but didn't want him to be voted, wanted votes removed.
Is that because he's scummy and not in your wolf team, or why would you read someone as specifically a 3P?
Did that hit too close to home?
This nonsense was not followed up with a vote on me.
Jowy is calling people scummy and then voting elsewhere, going after Montmorency the lowest-hanging fruit outside of Autolycus.
The
Process
Does Not Match
The votes.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:16
Also, my gut agrees with pizza that Monty could be third party. In contrast to Csargo it doesn't feel like he's really enjoying himself, which would be unusual for him as either town or scum.
It should be noted the votes on Montmorency happening only after I mentioned him as a possible third party, while he's done little to defend himself this round.
A potentially hostile third party especially with killing power would pose a major threat to the scum team, more than one town pizzaguy could ever provide.
I'm not a fan of the Monty votes. If we had zero scum suspects then maybe, although it really behooves town to find scums as a priority. Any mafia team is much more powerful if they only have town to deal with.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:18
To those upset that I haven't shown myself enough, see the last game. The burst in activity around midday leaves me cold.
As of page 6, my impression is this is super-scum Pizza and DP is town. I don't want to antagonize potential scum Pizza, especially with unread content, so I've stayed away from the game for the last day.
If we have 3.5 hours, I guess I can catch up, but whatever.
No offense Monty, but I don't think you could ever read me scum on d1 correctly.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:21
Just reading the room since I had dinner and a nap, the climax of this day was my pushing Jowy and mentioning fredwood.
Neither one of them handled that push well.
Then, after I was gone, look at their behavior. You all let them go, and the tension all vanished.
Neither one of them did anything at all, really. Jowy's back on low-hanging fruit that won't fight back, and Freddo didn't do anything. Literally.
Pls can people be here and talk to me?
Sup? Sooh
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:29
vote:csargo
Hang on a second.
Csargo, have you noticed something odd about today?
Sup? Sooh
Hello. I'm tired. What's your name?
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:32
Vote: Manasi
Vote: Champ
This might mean nothing. Votes in red happened last game. But that's not the color that caught my eye and stuck in my brain.
Hang on a second.
Csargo, have you noticed something odd about today?
I haven't been around much today, so no not really.
Hello. I'm tired. What's your name?
My name is Csargo!
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:35
vote:monty for this and followup
was not super fond, felt like took advantage of longish dp post, not hugely natural feeling
/shrug
Here it is.
Cuth also voted in a strange color here.
I noticed the color ATPG. I commented on it earlier. Didn't notice Manasi/Champ though.
Wait. Current tinfoil is that voting in a different color does what exactly?
I'm gonna eat and think about this sweet new paranoia ATPG has given me.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:46
Wait. Current tinfoil is that voting in a different color does what exactly?
I dunno. I didn't even remember who did it, I just thought I remembered a colorful vote that didn't match any normal vote color before.
At first I thought it was some neutral or third party people handshaking, but both of the obviously out of place colors were from Cuthillius.
Which now might mean it's meaningless.
However, I don't know. I also don't think Cuth is actual scum or anything, but his behavior and votes are strange to me.
Sounds rather reachy tbh. I'm going to go to sleep now. Lynch at silly o'clock is lynch at silly o'clock.
He's signaling his buddy.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:48
In any case, time is basically up for a lot of people this round.
Sooh and I are not going to be around I'd imagine, just due to where we live on the earth.
A lot of people have already peaced out for the round, and many of them were my suspects, and those people looked super comfortable with the tally.
I think this is a mislynch or non-scum lynch in progress, just by reading the room.
I think those of us who are here need to throw our weight around and push a scum now.
If you're not following me then I need a scummy candidate I can lynch. And most of the folks with votes ain't cutting it.
He's signaling his buddy.
You mean like a lone wolf?
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:50
Csargo I'd lynch Jowy, Fredwood, Novice, and very few other people.
I gotta go. What's the call?
Csargo I'd lynch Jowy, Fredwood, Novice, and very few other people.
I gotta go. What's the call?
Why are you asking Csargo?
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:51
You mean like a lone wolf?
That's possible.
I feel that's something to discuss with the entire group on d2 I don't feel comfortable tinfoil lynching him exactly right now after townreading him.
Why are you asking Csargo?
I'm the towniest person in this game obviously.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:52
Why are you asking Csargo?
He's one of my top townreads and is present.
You are not a townread yet.
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 01:52
No offense Monty, but I don't think you could ever read me scum on d1 correctly.
I've had some experience over the last game, scumming with you twice, once cursing you from the dead town bench, and once working together as town.
What you looked like today is scum Pizza shock-and-awe flitting between a swarm of commitments and evaluations, with intent to confuse the landscape and prime one of any number of future gambits. :shrug:
I haven't been around much today, so no not really.
I'm reading that you have been.
I'm the towniest person in this game obviously.
Also probably the last person I wanted to respond to that question tbh.
Much <3 though. I'm sleepy and feeling generous.
Csargo I'd lynch Jowy, Fredwood, Novice, and very few other people.
I gotta go. What's the call?
Eh,
Vote:Jowy
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 01:53
Last year, not game.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:53
I've had some experience over the last game, scumming with you twice, once cursing you from the dead town bench, and once working together as town.
What you looked like today is scum Pizza shock-and-awe flitting between a swarm of commitments and evaluations, with intent to confuse the landscape and prime one of any number of future gambits. :shrug:
You just have PPSD.
I doubt you could read me right this game if I gave you five rounds to do it. You're too paranoid about me.
He's one of my top townreads and is present.
You are not a townread yet.
Oh, you thought I meant why him out of the two of us?
Nope. I meant why him in general.
Also probably the last person I wanted to respond to that question tbh.
Much <3 though. I'm sleepy and feeling generous.
sorry. I'll try harder next time.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:55
Monty, you want to lynch an actual scumbag, one that would have been fine picking you off today, lynch Jowy.
You want to stop tinfoiling me? If I lynch a scum day one, you can call it bussing tomorrow. But a dead scum will still have happened.
Lynch me and I flip townie, and you'll never push Jowy because I've read the room and no one's paying attention.
I've had some experience over the last game, scumming with you twice, once cursing you from the dead town bench, and once working together as town.
What you looked like today is scum Pizza shock-and-awe flitting between a swarm of commitments and evaluations, with intent to confuse the landscape and prime one of any number of future gambits. :shrug:
I'm reading that you have been.
I was on my phone, and not really reading anything except Cuth tbh.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 01:56
And that's it.
It's 3am and I have school in a few hours.
I put in a monster day one and all my reads and suspicions are posted. There's also night chat, so you can ask me stuff before day 2 even happens.
But that's all I can do.
You remaining folks that need to have every little thing wrapped up in a bow aren't going to get it. Make a gutsy call.
Good night.
I'll be zzzzing too.
You have my hot takes.
Nobody wanted to talk about them.
Gngn
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 01:59
Monty, you want to lynch an actual scumbag, one that would have been fine picking you off today, lynch Jowy.
You want to stop tinfoiling me? If I lynch a scum day one, you can call it bussing tomorrow. But a dead scum will still have happened.
Lynch me and I flip townie, and you'll never push Jowy because I've read the room and no one's paying attention.
That's also a common scum-Pizza move, deflect and put the onus on the accuser. :(
If there's night-chat, I want to peace out for EOD. My vote is still on Pizza, novice's votecounter misses that.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 02:07
One would think you could just place a new vote so it counts, Monty. But Zack'll see it regardless.
Official Tally as of #593
----
Day 1 ends in: tunnel snakes rule
----
2 Champ (crimson_snow, Jowy)
2 Csargo (Dp101, novice)
2 El Barto (Fredwood, Sooh)
2 Jowy (Askthepizzaguy, Csargo)
2 Montmorency (Logic, Cuthillius)
2 Sooh (BSmith, Manasi)
1 Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency)
1 Dp101 (El Barto)
1 Logic (Winston Hughes)
1 Manasi (Champ)
1 novice (autolycus)
----
Not Voting: (everyone has voted :2thumbsup:)
Not Posting: (everyone has posted :2thumbsup:)
----
If you notice anything wrong, PM me.
I think I forgot to mention how ties are resolved -- random number generator.
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 02:22
I was on my phone, and not really reading anything except Cuth tbh.
You are a top-3 poster with 70 posts. As I said last game, Csargo-postmore trend. Scummy?
One would think you could just place a new vote so it counts, Monty. But Zack'll see it regardless.
Yeah sure, maybe I'll humor you. By Zack tally, Champ shouldn't be lynched.
Here are my notes for P6. I think I'll take my time on these evaluations for nighttime and won't speed-read to get a grip on who should be lynched. Too many posts.
PIZZA
151: Manasi real town lean 50% (thanked by DP)
159: Destroy anyone who tries to lynch Champ or Manasi(?)
160: DP not "generic someone"
163: Different folks I hold to different standards. Specifics, not generics.
168: Champ not scum for barging in with no reads and posting, apparent no read rules, scum more careful; more engaged than last game; less likely randed scum and is excited; "I feel good about the townie lean. So we'll see."
169: Agrees with csnow on explaining town reads with process
176: Votes El Barto, "have some info Barto"
177: DP "can town-clear himself well by midgame if he is town. only reason I'm not sinking my teeth into his leg atm"
SNOW
P6: Doesn't like Pizza pushing DP; Early spam NAI; not going to take things like 'X is town' with no explanation at face value; on Champ case to Pizza, more likely player-indicative (Champ style) than AI; doesn't want to vote DP, but "lack of town reads/leans, calling people null, yet not really trying to change that sends up a couple red flags"; small talk Logic;
REDWOOD:
P6: (to Barto voting him) D1 lynch first game, so be it, random gods sated
DP
P6: Tells Jowy reads null on [ ] wagon from earlier; agrees with Csnow on NAI spam; "Wagons to end spam never work";
BARTO
P6: Bookmark my last post on Pizza; smalltalk w/ Manasi;
LOGIC
P6: Smalltalk to Champ and Pizza; "somehow missed the "unclaim" in my first read-through" (???);
CSARGO
P6: "Champ y u so engaged this game? You scum? 3rd party? Neutral? Turtle?"; votes Pizza for disappointing him;
I think that Jowy is not the worst option, but I am rather partial to that sweet sweet Pizza tinfoil that Monty is putting out there.
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 02:34
Pizza telling me I'm paranoid of him is another subtle bit of gaslighting.
Just to get it down:
All-angling, savage pushes and momentous mind-changes on a dime without real process (which is lost in the sea of evaluations). Bookmark down to see if this will describe Pizzas behavior from 24:00/48:00 up to now.
What he said about Champ and Manasi P6:
Manasi is a real town lean at about 50 percent confidence.
I can't claim to be an expert Manasi reader at all, but I'm not lynching there anytime soon.
If anyone tries to lynch you or Champ this game, wipe them out. All of them.
(Although in the second post he could be replying to Jowy with [you], who is his recent marked-for-lynch.)
Some mush in his final posts for the day about people with odd vote colors, and then from Manasi and Champ mutual votes (but totally not color):
This might mean nothing. Votes in red happened last game. But that's not the color that caught my eye and stuck in my brain.
Why would Pizza even mention these mutual votes from the first page of gameplay, at EOD and long after he townread Champ and Manasi? What could this possibly serve other than to muddy the waters and prime future reversals?
Pizza's always lynched D1, live a little.
Wonder Woman was good
That's cool, tell me other things.
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 02:39
Pizza's always lynched D1, live a little.
That's not true!
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 02:41
http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-16-at-1.07.21-PM.png
You, Monty, are purely daft for thinking that I as scum cannot manage to get more than 2 votes on a given candidate, and would let a massive tie like this at 2 votes apiece happen.
You guys remember what I've always said about low-tallies and how pro-town they are on day 1?
How it ruined the scum team in representative democracy to get lynched on so few votes, for similar albeit different principles?
You're going to overlook (a) my townieness which couldn't shine any brighter today unless I was literally in the champs finale and (b) how I'm actually a competent wolf that would never,
Ever,
Ever
Let this current tally be how things stand
Then I don't know if you will ever read me properly in any game. You just don't have it in you. Point blank.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 02:44
Not moving my vote. I'm gonna let it be 2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2.
I vow upon pain of being called a wolf, I'm not moving my vote.
But it needed to be said. Monty, you're just bad, bro.
That's not true!
It's 99% true 67% of the time.
You are a top-3 poster with 70 posts. As I said last game, Csargo-postmore trend. Scummy?
That's a bad way to read people, you probably shouldn't do that.
This wagon formation always lynches a wolf.
Tally as of post 606:
Lynch votes
2 votes: Sooh (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751655#post2053751655), Manasi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752136#post2053752136))
2 votes: Champ (crimson_snow (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752056#post2053752056), Jowy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752120#post2053752120))
2 votes: El Barto (Fredwood (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751947#post2053751947), Sooh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752187#post2053752187))
2 votes: Csargo (Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751867#post2053751867), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752110#post2053752110))
2 votes: Montmorency (Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752145#post2053752145), Cuthillius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752179#post2053752179))
2 votes: Jowy (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752029#post2053752029), Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752216#post2053752216))
1 votes: No Lynch (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751586#post2053751586))
1 votes: Dp101 (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751865#post2053751865))
1 votes: Novice (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751651#post2053751651))
1 votes: Manasi (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751579#post2053751579))
1 votes: Logic (Winston Hughes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752149#post2053752149))
Voting history:
Manasi
Champ
No Lynch
Fredwood
Dp101
No Lynch
Askthepizzaguy
crimson_snow
Askthepizzaguy
Novice
Novice
Winston Hughes
Autolycus
Sooh
Manasi
El barto
ATPG
Dp101
dp101
Cuthillius
El Barto
Dp101
Csargo
monty
El Barto
Cuthilius
Unvote
Montmorency
Jowy
Champ
csargo
Csargo
Champ
Sooh
Montmorency
Logic
Unvote
montmorency
El Barto
Jowy
What kind
The kind that help me, help you.
This wagon formation always lynches a wolf.
Tally as of post 606:
Lynch votes
2 votes: Sooh (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751655#post2053751655), Manasi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752136#post2053752136))
2 votes: Champ (crimson_snow (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752056#post2053752056), Jowy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752120#post2053752120))
2 votes: El Barto (Fredwood (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751947#post2053751947), Sooh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752187#post2053752187))
2 votes: Csargo (Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751867#post2053751867), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752110#post2053752110))
2 votes: Montmorency (Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752145#post2053752145), Cuthillius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752179#post2053752179))
2 votes: Jowy (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752029#post2053752029), Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752216#post2053752216))
1 votes: No Lynch (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751586#post2053751586))
1 votes: Dp101 (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751865#post2053751865))
1 votes: Novice (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751651#post2053751651))
1 votes: Manasi (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751579#post2053751579))
1 votes: Logic (Winston Hughes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752149#post2053752149))
Voting history:
So you're gonna keep voting me? Coolio.
I wanna vote on Pizza just because he triggered me by posting Phighter's MU picture.
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 02:56
Not moving my vote. I'm gonna let it be 2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2.
I vow upon pain of being called a wolf, I'm not moving my vote.
But it needed to be said. Monty, you're just bad, bro.
You said it held so long as scum could be threatened. Perhaps, if you're scum, you have found a situation in which your team is not threatened. In this case, a multi-tie is pretty pro-scum.
I haven't even bared my teeth yet.
That's a bad way to read people, you probably shouldn't do that.
Don't worry, I'm sure something else comes up.
Vote: csargo
Got opportunistic scum vibes from him. Once is a coincidence, twice probably not.
Also going to bed so gnight.
Vote: csargo
Got opportunistic scum vibes from him. Once is a coincidence, twice probably not.
Also going to bed so gnight.
https://i.imgur.com/Ux1pUxQ.gif
Confidence in Csargo read dropping by the second.
I 2/2 in the OMGUS department, sweet.
I'm 2/2 in the OMGUS department, sweet.
https://i.imgur.com/GX3Ryzp.gif
Official Tally as of #617
----
Day 1 ends in: tunnel snakes rule
----
3 Csargo (Dp101, novice, Jowy)
2 El Barto (Fredwood, Sooh)
2 Jowy (Askthepizzaguy, Csargo)
2 Montmorency (Logic, Cuthillius)
2 Sooh (BSmith, Manasi)
1 Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency)
1 Champ (crimson_snow)
1 Dp101 (El Barto)
1 Logic (Winston Hughes)
1 Manasi (Champ)
1 novice (autolycus)
----
Not Voting: (everyone has voted :2thumbsup:)
Not Posting: (everyone has posted :2thumbsup:)
----
If you notice anything wrong, PM me.
El Barto
06-23-2017, 03:54
Not on my watch. vote: Jowy
Noting that there is a new note noted in my notes.
Hah! I *TOLD* you people that he wasn't asleep.
Also, I'd probably not call me cs, if that's what you were referring to. That's mildly confusing with a Csargo in the game.
It is meant to be pronounced as [t͡s], actually. It's from the Russian ‘царь’.
The second thing that stands out to me is Barto's pressure of me and subsequent ignorance of it, even after I addressed it in a non-commital, half confrontational way. Early pressure and votes seem to be a rather important part of the meta here. So I kind of have a question that i hope doesn't get lost in this wall of text that's forming. With new players, how likely is a null read lynch likely to happen? Is it kind of a courtesy policy to not lynch a new player in that situation?
If the answer is yes to this question, would a town not reroll for pressure? Further if Bart is scum, it's an easy vote to place knowing it won't get much traction and likely little information, but still appears like he's participating by deliberately picking a weak vote on a not likely to be lynched target.
If he kept pressuring me after my response I'd feel better about this interaction. Playing the helpful townie explaining how the pressure works here, asking if I'm just not going to respond to pressure, are just two options I would have liked to have seen among many. There's a precedent for players not responding to early pressure that has already been stated in thread, but with no meta to read on me there's no way he'd know this. Instead of pushing more, he ignores the interaction entirely then votes for low hanging fruit with some built-in cover. (The Cover being CSARGO and ASTPG who I have slight town reads for different reasons...ASTPG mainly for his insistence that he was going to bed and then not actually going to bed and still posting in thread).
SOOOOOOO
Vote: El Barto
With Bart voting for him, I think DP is likely telling the truth about being unable to participate and just made a bad post (from my perspective), and Barto is trying to cash in on the opportunity to get in some low information participation votes early.
Pressure, sir? My vote in these games is always, by definition, a random vote.
Not even I would go to such ridiculous lengths to justify a belated OMGUS-type vote.
It's beautiful up here.
Are you admitting to being, as they call it, ‘high’?
I'm the towniest person in this game obviously.
Yes, you are.
Official Tally as of #620
----
Day 1 ends in: tunnel snakes rule
----
4 Jowy (Askthepizzaguy, Csargo, El Barto, Champ)
3 Csargo (Dp101, novice, Jowy)
2 El Barto (Fredwood, Sooh)
2 Montmorency (Logic, Cuthillius)
2 Sooh (BSmith, Manasi)
1 Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency)
1 Champ (crimson_snow)
1 Logic (Winston Hughes)
1 novice (autolycus)
----
Not Voting: (everyone has voted :2thumbsup:)
Not Posting: (everyone has posted :2thumbsup:)
----
If you notice anything wrong, PM me.
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 04:04
I don't know what I'm doing, so I won't tie it.
Vote: Jowy
I was moderately ready to vote Jowy before this, Pizza's opinion on him not notwithstanding, but this just makes the wagon look even more scummy to me.
I don't know what I'm doing, so I won't tie it.
I appreciate the honesty.
I was moderately ready to vote Jowy before this, Pizza's opinion on him not notwithstanding, but this just makes the wagon look even more scummy to me.
Why are you scum reading champ?
El Barto
06-23-2017, 04:10
I notice that, for the second time in the day, I have joined with Askthepizzaguy and Csargo to be third on a leading bandwaggon.
Disclaimer I will be phoneposting almost every EOD bc I'm an old and I get in bed at 10:50
I notice that, for the second time in the day, I have joined with Askthepizzaguy and Csargo to be third on a leading bandwaggon.
How does it feel?
Why are you scum reading champ?
The sudden jumping onto the wagon feels wrong, from him.
How does it feel?
Appropriately scummy I would hope.
El Barto
06-23-2017, 04:13
How does it feel?
I am not sure yet. But it is a good question, even after taking into account the age of the asker. ;)
The sudden jumping onto the wagon feels wrong, from him.
It does, a bit. So why are you not voting for him?
I dunno. I feel that Jowy is rather scummy, but I just hate the behaviour of those on him.
I am not sure yet. But it is a good question, even after taking into account the age of the asker. ;)
It does, a bit. So why are you not voting for him?
Because I have one vote and many people to kill.
The sudden jumping onto the wagon feels wrong, from him.
You know what his personality is like though. Why are you suddenly jumping on him for being exactly himself?
You know what his personality is like though. Why are you suddenly jumping on him for being exactly himself?
I never remember him just bandwagoning away.
I am not sure yet. But it is a good question, even after taking into account the age of the asker. ;)
Are you flirting with me?
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 04:16
I guess I won't be able to sleep until I see this flip, and that's far too late in the morning for actual sleep.
El Barto
06-23-2017, 04:16
Appropriately scummy I would hope.
Oh? So being scummy is suddenly appropriate, my good sir?
Because I have one vote and many people to kill.
And whom would you include among those on the kill list?
I never remember him just bandwagoning away.
I'm not talking about how he plays.
I'm talking about how he acts.
El Barto
06-23-2017, 04:17
Are you flirting with me?
Well, you certainly aren't jailbait now, are you?
I guess I won't be able to sleep until I see this flip, and that's far too late in the morning for actual sleep.
See post #619.
You know what his personality is like though. Why are you suddenly jumping on him for being exactly himself?
Because he's scum, I've literally been saying this the entire day.
https://i.imgur.com/kOjFpJs.gif
Oh? So being scummy is suddenly appropriate, my good sir?
And whom would you include among those on the kill list?
I mean that your company is not the towniest.
Some combination of Pizza, Jowy, Champ, and Csargo.
I'm not talking about how he plays.
I'm talking about how he acts.
Well, I was talking about his play when I called him scummy.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 04:18
This is my emotional state over the past 3 hours:
1) I do not want to be wrong especially on a new player, especially how hard I was pushing him.
2) Cannot sleep due to that stress.
3) The counterwagon is Csargo.
4) There's just no way that Csargo town should ever be lynched before Jowy town, so even if Jowy is townie, this is a much better lynch.
5) Jowy still looks really scummy. Not even backing off of that a little.
Because he's scum, I've literally been saying this the entire day.
https://i.imgur.com/kOjFpJs.gif
Omg ok fine I'm sorry I was just trying to get there myself
Dp101
Omg ok fine I'm sorry I was just trying to get there myself
Dp101
???
Omg ok fine I'm sorry I was just trying to get there myself
Dp101
Don't play with my heart Manasi pls.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 04:20
That vote won't count, Manasi. Gotta say "vote: "
Well, you certainly aren't jailbait now, are you?
I haven't been jailbait for a while.
I haven't been jailbait for a while.
This conversation scares me.
That vote won't count, Manasi. Gotta say "vote: "
Zack plz count it
Vote DP101
Too many sites too many voting formats
This conversation scares me.
You get scared when someone mentions kissing. Relax.
Vote:Dp101
huehuehue
https://i.imgur.com/rM9d91L.gif
Jowy peeked me he can't be scum.
Csargo, I hate you right now. :D
Am I top wagon right now? Or tied?
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 04:24
Your pussyfooting around with scum reading Jowy but also everyone voting him means I'm going to cap you here, dp101.
Vote Jowy or die.
Vote: Jowy for self-preservation.
Csargo, I hate you right now. :D
I get that a lot actually. I'm okay with it mostly.
https://i.imgur.com/Mzetfra.gif
I think I forgot to mention how ties are resolved -- random number generator.
Reminder.
Pls escort yourself (and your freckes) out of my thread.
ESPECIALLY your freckles.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 04:25
Vote: Jowy for self-preservation.
That is more like it.
Now tell me why Csargo tosses his own head into the fire like that as scum. For the record.
Am I top wagon right now? Or tied?
I have more votes than you. Why are you so afraid?
That is more like it.
Now tell me why Csargo tosses his own head into the fire like that as scum. For the record.
I don't know right now, I really have to go. I'll think about this overnight though.
Why are there no gifs from the best episode yet?
Zack plz count it
Vote DP101
Too many sites too many voting formats
use "vote:"
I ctrl+f to find votes
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 04:26
I'm not placing my vote in any manner that allows Csargo to be lynched today.
You want that to happen, you're going to have to convince a bunch of folks day 2.
Pls escort yourself (and your freckes) out of my thread.
ESPECIALLY your freckles.
https://i.imgur.com/WmiPYuz.gif
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 04:27
I don't know right now, I really have to go. I'll think about this overnight though.
weaksauce.
use "vote:"
I ctrl+f to find votes
Ugh. A colon on mobile is so hard.
Vote: dp101
Where did Barto disappear
Why are there no gifs from the best episode yet?
Which episode? Tell me pls.
Some of them are videos that I can't tag, or at least I don't know how.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/mkJU7em.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/mkJU7em.mp4
El Barto
06-23-2017, 04:28
Vote:Dp101
huehuehue
https://i.imgur.com/rM9d91L.gif
????
Jowy peeked me he can't be scum.
??????
Official Tally as of #674
----
Day 1 ends in: tunnel snakes rule
----
4 Jowy (Askthepizzaguy, El Barto, Champ, Dp101)
2 Csargo (novice, Jowy)
2 Dp101 (Manasi, Csargo)
2 El Barto (Fredwood, Sooh)
2 Montmorency (Logic, Cuthillius)
1 Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency)
1 Champ (crimson_snow)
1 Logic (Winston Hughes)
1 novice (autolycus)
1 Sooh (BSmith)
----
Not Voting: (everyone has voted :2thumbsup:)
Not Posting: (everyone has posted :2thumbsup:)
----
If you notice anything wrong, PM me.
El Barto
06-23-2017, 04:29
Where did Barto disappear
I was playing videogames.
????
??????
Hi, I'm your biggest fan. Also, how is this confusing to you?
DAY IS OVER.
STOP POSTING until I explicitly state you can continue.
:skull: 4 Jowy (Askthepizzaguy, El Barto, Champ, Dp101)
2 Csargo (novice, Jowy)
2 Dp101 (Manasi, Csargo)
2 El Barto (Fredwood, Sooh)
2 Montmorency (Logic, Cuthillius)
1 Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency)
1 Champ (crimson_snow)
1 Logic (Winston Hughes)
1 novice (autolycus)
1 Sooh (BSmith)
----
Not Voting: -
Not Posting: -
End of Day 1.
"I heard a rumor that Jowy wants less balaten."
Oh, how quickly those pesky rumors spread. Despite Jowy's earnest protestations that he indeed wanted more balaten and that this was all a gross misunderstanding, it was too late. His time was up.
https://i.imgur.com/raM8rAo.png
Jowy was a Faceless!
He was town!
-------
It is now Night One.
Deadline for night orders in: tunnel snakes rule
-------
Living Players: 16
Askthepizzaguy
autolycus
BSmith
Champ
crimson_snow
Csargo
Cuthillius
Dp101
El Barto
Fredwood
Logic
Manasi
Montmorency
novice
Sooh
Winston Hughes
------
Dead Players: 1
Jowy - Faceless
You can now post.
Night is a little longer than usual, because my schedule tomorrow is a bit different than I was expecting.
El Barto
06-23-2017, 04:55
Oh look, we can post at night! And I have to go to bed! Yay!
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 04:56
I needed to see that flip.
Not what I wanted to see on the other side, but out of any d1 mislynch outcome, that one was definitely the most useful to my ability to solve this, and I still firmly do not think Csargo was a better option.
If I had to do it over again I wouldn't even move my vote to dp101: If it randed and Jowy lynched, he flips town and it's much more difficult to analyze the end of round and the day leading up to it.
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 05:19
lololol this is textbook scum-Pizza
Yeah but it also depends on what he does do. And it also puts our suspicions on record as being genuine pressure we'd be willing to kill for, not merely scum distancing.
That's just as important to the solve. Open-mind and willing to change good, pure wishy-washy not good and makes it harder for townies to see who actually is willing to do what.
Not moving my vote. I'm gonna let it be 2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2.
I vow upon pain of being called a wolf, I'm not moving my vote.
But it needed to be said. Monty, you're just bad, bro.
Just kill me tonight, you're too strong for me.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 05:20
Looking back at people who had any opinion at all on Jowy, ctrl+F shows this:
Page 2:
Manasi is the first to call Jowy town based on his obviously fake fakepeek.
Page 3:
Jowy gives reads but no one called him townie.
Page 4:
Barto scumreads Jowy
Dp reads Jowy slight town.
Barto insists I take a look at Jowy-crimson
Page 5
Cuth puts Jowy as town
"jowy a nice free-flowing game BUT going in the right directions, has a mildly cocksure aura to him that i like"
Novice townreads Jowy as a top town read.
dp backs off his town read of Jowy a bit as a response to my push
novice gives reason for townreading jowy
after iso, novice suggests that jowy might have deliberately pocketed him.
Page 6
Winston townreads Jowy
" Jowy because if this is his scum game, it's improved radically since I saw it last. "
crimson also questions jowy townread.
novice asks jowy to explain his behavior / process conflict.
Cuth defends Jowy.
Page 8
Csargo votes Jowy after I push the issue.
Monty doesn't push Jowy.
dp waffles a bit on Jowy.
Barto votes Jowy to tie the game 3-3 csargo-jowy
Champ pushes Jowy to 4
dp suggests ready to vote Jowy but champ's vote makes him hesitate
dp again suggests Jowy is scummy.
Page 9
Manasi defends Jowy unconvincingly
I force dp101 to self-pres on Jowy or be lynched, so he does.
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 05:22
Looking back at people who had any opinion at all on Jowy, ctrl+F shows this:
Page 2:
Manasi is the first to call Jowy town based on his obviously fake fakepeek.
Page 3:
Jowy gives reads but no one called him townie.
Page 4:
Barto scumreads Jowy
Dp reads Jowy slight town.
Barto insists I take a look at Jowy-crimson
Page 5
Cuth puts Jowy as town
"jowy a nice free-flowing game BUT going in the right directions, has a mildly cocksure aura to him that i like"
Novice townreads Jowy as a top town read.
dp backs off his town read of Jowy a bit as a response to my push
novice gives reason for townreading jowy
after iso, novice suggests that jowy might have deliberately pocketed him.
Page 6
Winston townreads Jowy
" Jowy because if this is his scum game, it's improved radically since I saw it last. "
crimson also questions jowy townread.
novice asks jowy to explain his behavior / process conflict.
Cuth defends Jowy.
Page 8
Csargo votes Jowy after I push the issue.
Monty doesn't push Jowy.
dp waffles a bit on Jowy.
Barto votes Jowy to tie the game 3-3 csargo-jowy
Champ pushes Jowy to 4
dp suggests ready to vote Jowy but champ's vote makes him hesitate
dp again suggests Jowy is scummy.
Page 9
Manasi defends Jowy unconvincingly
I force dp101 to self-pres on Jowy or be lynched, so he does.
Why do you make a note about me Page 8? My last post at the time was on Page 5.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 05:22
lololol this is textbook scum-Pizza
Vote me until I die, just don't expect me to take you seriously. You're like a brick wall to me at times. I'm going to try to solve the game. You're welcome to spectate that or tunnel me to death, I really don't care which.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 05:23
The note you're questioning me about refers to your decision to abstain from making a decision on Jowy at my prompting here:
Monty, you want to lynch an actual scumbag, one that would have been fine picking you off today, lynch Jowy.
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 05:24
Vote me until I die, just don't expect me to take you seriously. You're like a brick wall to me at times. I'm going to try to solve the game. You're welcome to spectate that or tunnel me to death, I really don't care which.
I won't tunnel you, just work with me to find scum. What do you think of DP right now?
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 05:24
Also I'm viewing this at maximum ppp I think. There are 9 pages and this page starts on 641 at my ppp.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 05:27
I won't tunnel you, just work with me to find scum. What do you think of DP right now?
He's been active enough to make reading him possible, especially if he keeps it up. I don't have good feelings but I really want to analyze the Jowy commenters.
Give me minutes to do that and note that school starts for me in about an hour+, so some re-reads will have to wait until post-school and post-nap.
I will do whatever I need to do before night ends. This is a rare chance to make use of the night phase and I intend to.
Cuthillius
06-23-2017, 05:28
I needed to see that flip.
Not what I wanted to see on the other side, but out of any d1 mislynch outcome, that one was definitely the most useful to my ability to solve this, and I still firmly do not think Csargo was a better option.
If I had to do it over again I wouldn't even move my vote to dp101: If it randed and Jowy lynched, he flips town and it's much more difficult to analyze the end of round and the day leading up to it.
i agree that csargo and dp were bad lynches
i posit that jowy was also a bad lynch
but at that monty is also a bad lynch, given his posts afterwards
lessons learned
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 05:29
He's been active enough to make reading him possible, especially if he keeps it up. I don't have good feelings but I really want to analyze the Jowy commenters.
Give me minutes to do that and note that school starts for me in about an hour+, so some re-reads will have to wait until post-school and post-nap.
I will do whatever I need to do before night ends. This is a rare chance to make use of the night phase and I intend to.
God, you're evil. :tongue:
i agree that csargo and dp were bad lynches
i posit that jowy was also a bad lynch
but at that monty is also a bad lynch, given his posts afterwards
lessons learned
Was there a good option?
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 05:43
Looking back at people who had any opinion at all on Jowy, ctrl+F shows this:
Page 2:
Manasi is the first to call Jowy town based on his obviously fake fakepeek.
Page 3:
Jowy gives reads but no one called him townie.
Page 4:
Barto scumreads Jowy
Dp reads Jowy slight town.
Barto insists I take a look at Jowy-crimson
Page 5
Cuth puts Jowy as town
"jowy a nice free-flowing game BUT going in the right directions, has a mildly cocksure aura to him that i like"
Novice townreads Jowy as a top town read.
dp backs off his town read of Jowy a bit as a response to my push
novice gives reason for townreading jowy
after iso, novice suggests that jowy might have deliberately pocketed him.
Page 6
Winston townreads Jowy
" Jowy because if this is his scum game, it's improved radically since I saw it last. "
crimson also questions jowy townread.
novice asks jowy to explain his behavior / process conflict.
Cuth defends Jowy.
Page 8
Csargo votes Jowy after I push the issue.
Monty doesn't push Jowy.
dp waffles a bit on Jowy.
Barto votes Jowy to tie the game 3-3 csargo-jowy
Champ pushes Jowy to 4
dp suggests ready to vote Jowy but champ's vote makes him hesitate
dp again suggests Jowy is scummy.
Page 9
Manasi defends Jowy unconvincingly
I force dp101 to self-pres on Jowy or be lynched, so he does.
These are my first impressions only, but snap reading this after watching it all unfold from the control-search perspective,
El Barto's read of Jowy looked genuine, specifically his odd pairing of Jowy-crimson and insistence I look there on page 4, just because it's so specific and audacious. I do not feel El Barto was scum pushing Jowy. That looked like a real tinfoil from him.
In general, Cuth's read of Jowy is specific and well-formed, and despite his odd vote coloring I have no scum read on Cuth here. I think he arrived at Jowy town based on superior knowledge of Jowy's meta and methods, and this was not a forced or hollow scum reading a townie as town.
I don't really trust Novice that much, but his process on Jowy matches what I've seen him do as town. He gives a reason or two to back off the town read, and I think he can fake all this as scum, but if he is scum he's not being caught by any of his behavior toward Jowy, I don't think. It all looks on the level, pretty much.
Winston's townread of Jowy looks probably the most solid of the bunch. It's very firm, doesn't waver, and is based on his experience. I also don't think Winston had a chance to defend Jowy after the latest pushes of him, so he did everything he could to defend Jowy as a town read and none of it looked fake.
crimson mirrors my thoughts on Jowy but never pushes it at all, and I do not detect a scummy agenda from crimson. He's also town to me.
Csargo's push of Jowy looks normal, for him, and especially him unvoting Jowy looks great when csargo has 3 votes since his big tinfoil was always dp101 this game. I think he was on Jowy just to lend me a hand, but was willing to die to lynch dp101 who honestly had a bad first half of d1 and looked iffy all round. He can be scum because I've seen him make no effort to save himself as scum before, but this is just very gamble-y.
Monty took no action which is nai for him, but I didn't see him ever defend Jowy for town credits.
The least convincing person who commented on Jowy was Manasi.
Jowy's fakepeek and cop cover was downright terrible and wouldn't have convinced town or scums alike, in my view. Manasi hanging on to that almost 2 full days later and bringing it up as her only comment about Jowy isn't realistic to me as an actual defense.
If Manasi is scum and got a moderate townread from me, her behavior toward Jowy this game should be looked at.
Will add a bonus read here: Sooh was present near end of round and I don't believe most of her reads. Suspicion on her is warranted and I want a lot of activity and behavior from her on day 2. She needs to be closely examined. She didn't take a stand for or against the Jowy lynch, and is dead wrong about me being scummy.
Bad feelings about Sooh-slot can be due to her lack of engagement and being plugged into the game. So I want to see more before I make another hasty decision. Still, as someone who has seen her town and scum-sides, I didn't feel townieness yet.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 05:45
tl;dr
FoS: Sooh, and mild FoS Manasi for that round.
Those are my takeaways from the Jowy lynch. A lot of other people actually had very solid takes on Jowy that did not read scummy at all.
Cuthillius
06-23-2017, 05:46
Was there a good option?
yes, a couple
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 05:47
Missed giving a read on Champ.
I don't think his vote on Jowy was scummy, and I don't think he really needed to put a 4th vote on Jowy because I don't think Csargo was scum in need of rescuing.
Still, I can't give out town points for that vote. It can be a scum vote approximately the same frequency I'd say as randing scum in the first place.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 05:49
That's all I can do before school besides just chill out.
Will be here until then, though.
Cuthillius
06-23-2017, 05:53
That's all I can do before school besides just chill out.
Will be here until then, though.
do you really think sooh as scum ever comes into thread and says
hey lemme challenge pizza and just call him scum straight up
now noted the only two times i've seen her scum iirc
were in the games i hosted where she had to sub out and thus are not very represented
but calling el barto pizza and ?manasi? was
not something i think she does there as scum
if so more subdued
and i wholly disagree with your read on her in general
please elucidate about what feels contrived about her reads
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 05:57
Yeah I think she has no problem calling me scum when she's scum.
There are games when she will try to pocket me, and this wasn't going to be one of those since she had a weak d1.
Given how light and un-fleshed out all of her reads were, they were not at all dangerous for her to post as scum if she is scum.
I don't agree with most of her scum reads as being likely to be scum.
Cuthillius
06-23-2017, 06:00
Yeah I think she has no problem calling me scum when she's scum.
There are games when she will try to pocket me, and this wasn't going to be one of those since she had a weak d1.
Given how light and un-fleshed out all of her reads were, they were not at all dangerous for her to post as scum if she is scum.
I don't agree with most of her scum reads as being likely to be scum.
interesting
ok
thanks for response
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 06:01
dp101-Jowy interaction difficult to parse for alignment. I can see it both ways.
Of everything he's done this game that scum reads to me, the waffley-ness on whether to vote for Jowy or not and his being timid about voting there even while calling him scum-
It looks worse before the Jowy flip. If Jowy flipped scum there I think dp101 is hard to resolve as town if town.
After Jowy flips town, the behavior is still questionable but could also just be dp101 town being timid and unsure.
A better read on dp101 comes from looking at his d1 as a whole, and even better than that is his d2 or d3 and then taking all of that as a whole.
So I will constantly re-assess on his slot as it gets easier to read with time.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 06:08
Manasi-Sooh interaction looks bad on first glance.
I don't think Sooh was in serious jeopardy at any point and it's good distancing. Both can be scum or one, and I'm starting to think 1 is way more likely than zero.
i agree that csargo and dp were bad lynches
i posit that jowy was also a bad lynch
but at that monty is also a bad lynch, given his posts afterwards
lessons learned
Hey! I know you, you're the guy that tried to lynch me that one time! Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame!
I feel like trying to guess the setup based on the flavour for a bit, if you have no patience for that sort of thing, please skip the below spoiler.
Based on the opening post describing the scum as an XCOM team, I'm guessing that the scum's roles are the 4 basic classes in the game. Of those 4, the specialist (healing/hacking focussed class) is probably the easiest to guess, and is almost certainly a doctor of some kind.
Remote chance of rolecop/watching/tracking abilities due to drones, but I doubt it. Grenadier has 2 strong possibilities. One is that he roleblocks or jails via his suppression ability, as in-game it is an effective way to lock enemies down. The other is that he's a strongman based purely on the size of his gun and explosives. Sharpshooter is more difficult, my guess is maybe tracker because snipers thematically watch everything with their sights, but I'm unsure. Reaper (shotgun/sword user) is the hardest, as they don't do much other than kill. Maybe a vig shot?
These are my first impressions only, but snap reading this after watching it all unfold from the control-search perspective,
El Barto's read of Jowy looked genuine, specifically his odd pairing of Jowy-crimson and insistence I look there on page 4, just because it's so specific and audacious. I do not feel El Barto was scum pushing Jowy. That looked like a real tinfoil from him.
In general, Cuth's read of Jowy is specific and well-formed, and despite his odd vote coloring I have no scum read on Cuth here. I think he arrived at Jowy town based on superior knowledge of Jowy's meta and methods, and this was not a forced or hollow scum reading a townie as town.
I don't really trust Novice that much, but his process on Jowy matches what I've seen him do as town. He gives a reason or two to back off the town read, and I think he can fake all this as scum, but if he is scum he's not being caught by any of his behavior toward Jowy, I don't think. It all looks on the level, pretty much.
Winston's townread of Jowy looks probably the most solid of the bunch. It's very firm, doesn't waver, and is based on his experience. I also don't think Winston had a chance to defend Jowy after the latest pushes of him, so he did everything he could to defend Jowy as a town read and none of it looked fake.
crimson mirrors my thoughts on Jowy but never pushes it at all, and I do not detect a scummy agenda from crimson. He's also town to me.
Csargo's push of Jowy looks normal, for him, and especially him unvoting Jowy looks great when csargo has 3 votes since his big tinfoil was always dp101 this game. I think he was on Jowy just to lend me a hand, but was willing to die to lynch dp101 who honestly had a bad first half of d1 and looked iffy all round. He can be scum because I've seen him make no effort to save himself as scum before, but this is just very gamble-y.
Monty took no action which is nai for him, but I didn't see him ever defend Jowy for town credits.
The least convincing person who commented on Jowy was Manasi.
Jowy's fakepeek and cop cover was downright terrible and wouldn't have convinced town or scums alike, in my view. Manasi hanging on to that almost 2 full days later and bringing it up as her only comment about Jowy isn't realistic to me as an actual defense.
If Manasi is scum and got a moderate townread from me, her behavior toward Jowy this game should be looked at.
Will add a bonus read here: Sooh was present near end of round and I don't believe most of her reads. Suspicion on her is warranted and I want a lot of activity and behavior from her on day 2. She needs to be closely examined. She didn't take a stand for or against the Jowy lynch, and is dead wrong about me being scummy.
Bad feelings about Sooh-slot can be due to her lack of engagement and being plugged into the game. So I want to see more before I make another hasty decision. Still, as someone who has seen her town and scum-sides, I didn't feel townieness yet.
I voted Jowy because you wouldn't vote Dp101, so I figured I'd just sheep you for a bit, because I thought his reaction to the 3rd party Monty thing was kinda scummy. He was pretty much null for me the rest of the day.
Then Manasi revived my dream, so I had to go ATPG and follow my dreams. In the end I was disappointed though, so I will try again tomorrow.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 06:32
Everything about Sooh.
Bsmith votes for Sooh
Manasi calls Sooh awkward and forced.
pg2
Manasi clarifies her first self-wolf read is crimson. Doesn't mention sooh in that post
Nothing happens for a while.
pg7 onward
Cuth asks if Sooh has posted at all.
Manasi votes Sooh
Cuth doesn't want to vote sooh yet
crimson doesn't want to vote sooh yet
dp hates the sooh vote
Csargo not confident in sooh
Csargo doesn't like Manasi's vote for Sooh
Manasi would rather lynch sooh than monty, doesn't give additional reasons.
Sooh notes Bsmith voted her and didn't move.
Sooh thinks about voting Logic, reads Manasi town, El Barto "ehhhhh"
Sooh reads crimson town
Cuth reads sooh town
Sooh puts pizza - logic - barto scum team
Sooh puts fredwood as townie, not sure why. These reads feel rushed and not well supported, particularly with fredwood. Just seems thrown in there.
Sooh votes barto and I don't think barto-sooh team is possible.
_________________
If Sooh is scum, I don't think Bsmith or El barto are scum with her.
Manasi interaction with sooh can be distancing. After the first "awkward" comment, there's no follow up and doesn't even mention as the first scum read when she scum reads crimson. Later, her pushes on Sooh are a bit stronger, but not in a way I think anyone would find convincing.
In fairness, I don't think you could plausibly push Sooh even stronger at that time because there was nothing to push.
Sooh town can read Manasi as town even if Manasi wants her dead, that's NAI.
Crimson is consensus town.
Don't buy Logic as scum at all.
Barto push had possibility because Barto had been around all day with mixed feelings about his alignment from several people. Barto was always more in danger of the lynch than Sooh.
Cuth went on a limb to read Sooh town and I continue to have no issue with Cuth's alignment.
Sooh's read of fredwood looks problematic to me.
If Sooh town, Manasi looks less and less good. If Sooh is scum, I believe Manasi is still not clear, which I'm sure is irritating but this is how I see it.
Now I must skip out, last day of school.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 06:34
I voted Jowy because you wouldn't vote Dp101
I was at 49/51 of switching back to dp101 for his inability to vote a scumread of his, and his timidity surrounding even calling it a scum-read.
The main reason I did not is you become a lot more likely to be lynched with those vote totals, and I was trying to do a tally and I wasn't sure I had it correct before end of round.
You were always light years ahead of either candidate and I was not going to risk you.
It's your head to risk, and what showmanship. But I was not prepared to do that.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 06:36
I abandoned the tally because I had 2 minutes left when I was making it, and the previous tally was on the other page. If I was going to make a final call between jowy and dp I needed to see the end of round in real time to make sure I met deadline.
Ok now I really gotta run.
tl;dr
FoS: Sooh, and mild FoS Manasi for that round.
Those are my takeaways from the Jowy lynch. A lot of other people actually had very solid takes on Jowy that did not read scummy at all.
I'm with Monty here I think. I was going to wait and see for another day, but my takeaway is this:
Pizza has a D1 full of theatrics. He's obviously starting out excited and ready to go. Throughout the day he does a ton of analysis, which for the time of the game and the state of the game I'd say is redundant at that point. He's giving a weak push on El Barto, but changes direction quickly. During EOD when I'm actually online despite not having been so for most of the game, he doesn't engage me in talk or ask my opinions or why I said I thought he was scum, he just tries to push and derail. I don't actually believe he cares so much who was lynched at all, as long as it wasn't anyone on his team.
The cautionary tale here, and the reason why I wasn't pushing for his lynch D1, other than the obvious that I was sleepy as hell and wasn't sure I was grasping the game state right from speed reading 500 posts, was that there was, and is, a nagging "but he is capable of all of this as a townie too". So that's where I stand.
I think he's scum, but probably will want to give him D2 to redeem himself and talk to me if he's interested.
ignore that then
it's mostly been that, you've mentioned a few other people as consideration but apparently are scumreading DP SO highly that you're not even considering anyone else
look, you quoted those posts, yeah? i don't see how those outweigh the many towny posts he's made
there are a few posts that are scummy
they're not even that scummy
but you are acting like they are, and bringing them up like they're worth more than they are
it COULD just be that i vastly disagree with you, but that just seems
wrong or off or something
but i just see a massive discrepancy between your stated confidence in your reads and the basis you're grounding them on
unvote: for now
i agree that csargo and dp were bad lynches
What turned you off Csargo?
Fredwood
06-23-2017, 13:02
I really don't know what flinching is, so not sure how it would be textbook. I was checking in on the thread but there still no interaction with the post and more things that I had no reason to weigh in on, kind of interesting that there was pushback on it once it seemed certain I was not active in the thread. Seems convenient coupled with the fact that there was a number of people who "bugged" off after a period of time. Inconsistent stance. Pocketing the other top poster, focusing down easy mislynches (the new guy, the quiet guy, the inactive guy), using volume as a defense. I'll be inclined to think that I won't be voting for anyone who Pizza is voting for anytime soon, If you aren't scum I have 0 percent faith in your reads especially with them being so flimsy.
Good feels about: CSargo, novice, and DP because of Barto, Cuth I liked the chunk of time he was active.
People I want to feel good about: Sooh, reads are mindmelding, but have concerns about buddying (was a recent victim of buddying so I'm still scurred). Winston...if anything for him aggressively going after someone everyone seems to be afraid of. CS belittling him and dismissing him is another good look for Winston in a game where Pizza is scum.
I've noticed Logic's posts, but I haven't formulated a read yet.
Pressure, sir? My vote in these games is always, by definition, a random vote.
Not even I would go to such ridiculous lengths to justify a belated OMGUS-type vote.
Lol nice try, I reaction tested you and you failed miserably, wasn't OMGUS. I may be new to this site, but I'm not new. So good job just enforcing my stance on you by trying to misrepresent my argument.
Fredwood
06-23-2017, 13:07
Winston...if anything for him aggressively going after someone everyone seems to be afraid of. CS belittling him and dismissing him is another good look for Winston in a game where Pizza is scum.
I meant Pizza there not CS.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 15:29
I'm with Monty here I think. I was going to wait and see for another day, but my takeaway is this:
Pizza has a D1 full of theatrics. He's obviously starting out excited and ready to go. Throughout the day he does a ton of analysis, which for the time of the game and the state of the game I'd say is redundant at that point. He's giving a weak push on El Barto, but changes direction quickly. During EOD when I'm actually online despite not having been so for most of the game, he doesn't engage me in talk or ask my opinions or why I said I thought he was scum, he just tries to push and derail. I don't actually believe he cares so much who was lynched at all, as long as it wasn't anyone on his team.
The cautionary tale here, and the reason why I wasn't pushing for his lynch D1, other than the obvious that I was sleepy as hell and wasn't sure I was grasping the game state right from speed reading 500 posts, was that there was, and is, a nagging "but he is capable of all of this as a townie too". So that's where I stand.
I think he's scum, but probably will want to give him D2 to redeem himself and talk to me if he's interested.
Here's a big red flag. This is all backwards.
Now I pretty much know you're lying. You've seen the difference in how I handle day 1 as scum and how I handle it as town.
One moment, I gotta bury my wife, you guys.
A sad day for pizza, most certainly.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 15:56
Previous game on this site. Town pizza. Sooh was in it.
This is my 6th post of that game, extremely early in the round, in fact, so early that I got some guff for even having a reads list. I don't waste time getting down to business and trying to town-read people based off of anything they can give me as early as possible, mainly because the random vote stage and joke vote stage is utterly useless to an analyst.
Sooh: "Throughout the day he does a ton of analysis, which for the time of the game and the state of the game I'd say is redundant at that point."
I have some time to take a look and here's my look. This is my impression of who is not a royalist and getting voted right now.
(votecount)
^My guess is all these votes are misses
Not sure what to think about these, I'd guess at least 5 townies being voted in this group.
I feel roughly about here due to all the posts so far, and the vote count as it stands.
Askthepizzaguy
Renata
Manasi
BSmith
NotACop
atheotes
Montmorency
Snerk
Monstrdude
Kagemusha
Zack
seireikhaan
Lewwyn
Csargo
Logic
Choxorn
If I had to place a serious vote, I'd guess there are 3 scums reside inside these 8, with my vote going most likely toward the bottom pile.
Sooh
Dp101
Jabbz
Fenn
Arakhor
autolycus
Al Sipsclar
El Barto
reactions at the time, followed by my justification:
Is that post supposed to be ironic or something?
This is a lot of reads for seemingly a lot of fluff stuff. ATPG idk if we've ever played together, I just remember you yelling at me for an MU game. Are you the goatest?
That was my thought. Wagon analysis and 11 town reads at this point in the game? Not sure if I buy that's legitimate.
I see the game has finally started.
I didn't really want to get into this with an "analyze ATPG" session, but you put it out there when you could have just played silly buggers like me. Without getting too spammy, can you please justify your top three and bottom four reads?
I could, but I don't think it would be very persuasive to people. I can say it in general terms, to aid people in understanding that there was thought put into it.
It's largely experience and instinct, based on paper thin first impressions, understanding of what I'd do if scum in this setup, what most players would do, and my analysis of the people inside my own faction who I don't want to name. I think I have a 70/15/5/5/5/0 read on my group based on their reactions to my opening posts there. The odds also just favor the votes being almost entirely on townies at the moment, if they were random, and they're not. The mafia's votes aren't random and even though most of ours are semi-random, there will also be biases regarding not necessarily piling votes on one's own faction members this early. Scum would likely be voting outside their own faction here, on a townie. I'd even put the odds of them voting for each other as higher than voting inside their own faction on a townie. That goes against the strategy of manipulating one's seeming faction-mates, it also draws attention and is therefore probably counterproductive.
I haven't caught anyone, I just haven't found some people to be showing revolutionary colors yet. I'm working from a town-down perspective and including some gut suspicions into the bottom 4.
Oh and nobody ever thinks I'm acting like I do as town when I act the way I do as town, no one ever thinks I believe my own gut.
I could only remind people (ineffectively as always) that I frequently go out on a way limb as early as possible in the game to get reads out.
Gonna cite my strong opposition to the wagons on the MTGS crossover game on day one that no one believed were authentic but were, and my strong opposition to the current suspects in the hydra game, both games I was lynched day one.
I know these patterns go against your instincts but my instincts are all backwards from yours.
Note the bolded.
How I ended the day 1 of that game: By voting specifically to protect my town read. Which lynched a scum. Then I shot one that night. Why? Because I try to find as many townies as possible as early as possible so that these early rounds aren't all faffing and wasted time.
That crossover game I cited at the end of the above, btw, not only was I town, but I was a hydra account with Sooh. So not only has her last town-town experiences with me matched this game entirely, but she got to view it from inside my player slot in one of those. I was all business and hunting towns and defending them from death even when the silly nanners tried to lynch me for it. And I pushed a scum case hard there too, and that time I was right. So I have experience trying to make day 1s not a waste, because I know for a fact they don't have to be. Even this mislynch gave me tons of info.
That's why this particular comment from Sooh triggered me.
Next: Why it's backwards.
Sooh: "But he's capable of it as townie too"
In my view, town-Sooh logic should go like this;
"This is how pizza behaves on day one as townie, in every game I can recall, he's just capable of it as scum."
Next:
"During EOD when I'm actually online despite not having been so for most of the game, he doesn't engage me in talk or ask my opinions or why I said I thought he was scum, he just tries to push and derail."
Not sure I talk directly to Sooh much at all during the early days of any game. My stance on Sooh is to wait and see what she does, interfering with it as little as possible.
Sooh, my dear, you aren't right this game.:bow:
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 15:58
Actually now that I think of it, I might be mixing the hydra and the crossover game. The underlying point I was making doesn't change though.
Your case on me is that I'm not doing enough.
Your case is the flimsyest of flimsy. That's ok. Your turn to get me lynched this time. I'll lie down and roll over.
Seriously, if you're town I'd love to work with you tomorrow, because I'm still feeling my case is on the wobbliest of shaky ground. I'm not going all in for Pizza lynch tomorrow. I'm just showing my hand and where I am with you right now. You can do your thing tomorrow and prove you're a good guy to everyone.
Pro tip: It helps lynching a scumbag and I ain't one.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 16:23
That was my town game. Let's look at the 3 games of scum back to back that happened before that.
Compare to scum game: Visor's Small Game in nov/dec
I found two townies and tunneled dp101 as soon as possible, and made way fewer posts. And, got away with all of that not-working because scumming is easier than towning.
Compare to scum game: The one right before that. This one has Sooh in it.
I began tunneling Scarlett Aria immediately, and made no effort to find townies.
I can be online for a bit later, I'll give preliminary thoughts on things, but here's the main problem- There's not been flips yet.
I think we could use some different names as the top wagons, is my initial impression. But who, is something I haven't figured out yet. If someone wants to be a hero and lynch a wolf on the first day, and set us up for a great opening, sell me. My vote is not occupied atm.
I'm turning the next person who posts into a double-voter. (votes the way the next person voted)
Look at the blatant excuse I use to not find townies there. Also watch me rely on others to push things, because it's dangerous to push things d1 as scum.
The differences between how I approach d1 as scum and town are night and day, but I keep getting away with doing zero on day 1 in every scum game because it works, and it's safe.
Compare to the scum game before that: Futurama.
How many posts did I make on day one that game?
I didn't even count, because I'm not even present on most pages of that day phase.
Now, honest question: Can I change this up?
Yes, yes I can. I'm capable of utterly blowing your collective socks off as scum on day one if I ever choose to.
Do you know why I basically never choose to?
Because it brings scrutiny! Because it brings suspicion!
Because it hurts my survival chances, every single time I do it!
I know, because my shitty town record proves it! So, I do the smart thing and let town self-destruct on day 1 as scum.
http://www.startrek.com/uploads/assets/articles/Worf.png
[Worf curses in Klingon]
Town-Worf: "You have always used your knowledge of town's d1 general lack of vigilance to get what you want from me as scum!"
Scum-Pizza-Picard: "Because it always works, Town-Worf! Your problem is that you really *do* let me get away with the shittiest d1s imaginable, and really *don't* ever punish me for it! Don't blame me for knowing you so well."
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 16:29
Your case on me is that I'm not doing enough.
Your case is the flimsyest of flimsy. That's ok. Your turn to get me lynched this time. I'll lie down and roll over.
Seriously, if you're town I'd love to work with you tomorrow, because I'm still feeling my case is on the wobbliest of shaky ground. I'm not going all in for Pizza lynch tomorrow. I'm just showing my hand and where I am with you right now. You can do your thing tomorrow and prove you're a good guy to everyone.
Pro tip: It helps lynching a scumbag and I ain't one.
If you can't read what I just said, and know how absolutely true it is, you're no townie. Point blank.
You may not feel confident in reading me in games, but you've watched me play dozens of games and played dozens of games with me.
You know my main priority as scum is protecting the team. I can't do that if I spew half a dozen people townie by killing it day one and then dying.
You also know how much I want to kill scums right away, but mostly, find townies. You know this because you saw me start doing it in every town game since we started turbo-ing, where finding townies is key to locking the game away, and I'm hit and miss for finding scums.
Scums have to mess up for you to find them, townies don't.
Alright.
Theatrics may perhaps be excitement to play after not having done so for a while. Same with the excessive ISOing.
You can be town, but I reserve the right to tinfoil at any moment in time. I still feel eeeeehhhhh, but I'll let it go. Who knows, perhaps the scums think our thunderdome is exciting enough to let us both live to fight each other another day :P
Maybe Pizza is town after all, I dunno.
Maybe Pizza is town after all, I dunno.
Yeah. It seems kind of like his annoyed "Now I'm being suspected for ridiculous reasons again" personality.
Pizza is town, and if you disagree I'll fite you all!
Nah, but really, pretty sure he's town.
Pizza is town, and if you disagree I'll fite you all!
Nah, but really, pretty sure he's town.
Everybody has their process. If I didn't have a process with him I'd never feel comfortable calling him that this game.
Everybody has their process. If I didn't have a process with him I'd never feel comfortable calling him that this game.
Yes.
Why are you not scum? Or are you scum? Which one is it?
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 17:35
Alright.
Theatrics may perhaps be excitement to play after not having done so for a while. Same with the excessive ISOing.
You can be town, but I reserve the right to tinfoil at any moment in time. I still feel eeeeehhhhh, but I'll let it go. Who knows, perhaps the scums think our thunderdome is exciting enough to let us both live to fight each other another day :P
I am well-rested from playing games, haven't been town a ton lately, and this day one had actual substance.
If I don't have exactly this level of effort under those circumstances, you pretty much should always lynch me. Quote this post when you do.
Yes.
Why are you not scum? Or are you scum? Which one is it?
Pls don't ask me to analyze myself and defend myself without accusations. I can't deal with that again.
I'm not scum. I'll try to show you over the next day, little by little.
Pls don't ask me to analyze myself and defend myself without accusations. I can't deal with that again.
I'm not scum. I'll try to show you over the next day, little by little.
Fine. Fine. Fine. Fine. Fine. Fine.
brb
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 18:14
This is what I'm looking at;
Now that a full day has completed, and we have a flip, my process is to imagine what I'd be doing as scum in this game (which is to barely meet expectations or happily not meet them), that's in-general. Then I look for specific behavior problems. People who meet expectations and aren't lock town can be scum having a good game. But I still don't lynch there for no reason. So, who is meeting or exceeding expectations well? Who is meeting their average expectations or less, or is otherwise bad for specific reasons? This is what I think about that.
Askthepizzaguy 141
As I said, and my meta should show, this is one of the towniest games I've had in a long time. That's true even if my reads are no better than throwing darts. There's more to it than that, if I decided to make this game one of the best scum games I've ever done, out of nowhere. But, that's super dangerous in a game where it's even possible that there are vigs or third parties or serial killers or cops. And it's dangerous in general because it gets me dead. And if I don't get dead, everyone will wonder why I'm not dead come endgame.
Dp101 93
This is the best thing in dp's favor right now. He may be capable of this as scum, but there are so many ways he could have taken it easier on himself, and so many ways he could have screwed things up in a much more definite manner. I still have issues with his game, but I think it's looking more and more in line with how he described his own day 1s. He's just not in his comfort zone yet. But, he's not stopping what he's doing, and questionable is the worst he ever looked. More questionable than most on day one, but it can be a false positive.
Csargo 91
Much of his iso is low-content spammy stuff, but let's be clear. This is csargo's greatest scum game of all time, or his greatest town game of all time. And given how I'm approaching d1 in the generic sense, I don't favor the former theory. I favor the latter. If he's not dead come endgame, re-assess. But never lynch him d2.
crimson_snow 66
This was a really good day for him, regardless of who he is.
Manasi 52
Manasi is within her range as wolf or town. I haven't got a true scum read on her yet, I have some worries and concerns. But she should be looked at for specific reasons. These reasons can be wrong. But if the scum team has a high-poster, it's probably this person.
Cuthillius 50
I think Cuth looks pretty solid. He's not as solid as many of my town reads but this is him at least hitting his own hurdle of towniness.
Jowy 39
Now I know better and will be able to read Jowy better in the future, and kudos to those who read him right based on his meta. Apparently he is straightforward to read, but his process is just like nails on chalkboard to me. At one point he put csargo in his town core and then voted him. This is part of the problem I have with Jowy. Now, it is still MY fault I didn't read him right. But it's gotta be understandable. Even if you know Jowy better. His process was not the same as his votes, and I always vote someone who does that, and it's usually right.
novice 35
This is within his range. I think he hit his hurdle but he's not clear.
El Barto 28
He's not particularly spammy and I have mixed feelings. That's the generics. Specifically, I think he's not clear, but even so, many of his posts look ok and I can go into why.
Sooh 26
Her d1 had slank cover so let's call it NAI until I see her day 2. Specifically, however, I take issue with her reads and the way she read both me and fredwood in particular. It has to be discussed and analyzed, you can't let that go. You don't always lynch her, but you have to examine it.
Montmorency 22
He's got enormous range and is indecipherable to read. That said, in general, he didn't do much on day 1 and I'm not convinced he's towning. I think neutral is a strong possibility. I don't want to speculate that much, because unless I have a specifically scum read on him, I don't push him. I think he can be a lynch option, but we've got better info lynches than Monty.
Champ 18
I haven't played with champ that much, but this is an improvement over his previous game. That said, for reasons given that others have noted, he'd pretty much have to step it up if he rolled scum. So, specifically, this doesn't help.
Winston Hughes 17
Winston can do more than this, but he can also have a low day 1. It's not strongly indicative. Specifically, there were several posts from him that I liked. But he's not clear.
Logic 14
He comes from a place where posting twice a round flies. This is a good day one for him. I cannot lock him townie yet, but he's a solid town read.
Fredwood 13
This is what I'm concerned with.
BSmith 2
This is normal BSmith, and definitely how he'd play it as scum. And, I might even say, I've seen much better day 1s from him.
autolycus 1
This is below what we know he's capable of. That said, it's not atypical of him. So he's not clear.
_______________________________
What do you think the scums were doing on day one, if dp101 was town and csargo was town and Jowy was town? (the main lynch candidates)
Because my suspicions go to Fredwood, Sooh, and Manasi under such a metric. Not as a complete team, maybe 1 or 2 out of those 3.
You also cannot clear auto or bsmith, monty, winston, or barto, and maybe still have specific issues with dp's game despite his high post count, but I dunno. Need to re-read him again. And even those people you cannot clear, now you go through them specifically and see if you can't find more people you're not supposed to be lynching.
But I do think you back off csargo, crimson, me x1000, and even dp101 for at least 1 round. I think the day ones from all of those 4 warrant it.
Remember what you said about me earlier in D1 Pizza, that's how I feel right now. You're taking me for a ride, but it's fun so I'm okay with it for now.
Don't like Sooh's iso. Questions are questionable, not much there if I'm honest. Reads list is all kinds of weird to me. Disagree about Manasi, she's played very similar to the last game I feel, until maybe EoD. I've got Barto as null, I don't see him as overly suspicious or townie. Logic I kind of agree with. Crimson_snow I don't know, haven't gotten a terribly townie vibe from him. ATPG slight town, so disagree with that as well. Tone is worrying as well.
Askthepizzaguy
06-23-2017, 19:11
Not in response to your latest post, just a thought while I'm cooking dinner.
Csargo, you are in my town far enough that I'm not gonna tell you to pull back from suspecting dp101. That's up to you whether or not to assess him differently, and I am eager to see his day 2 to see if I can assess him differently as well. But, one of the dangers of focusing on the same people each round is that by endgame, a lot of people were never under any pressure.
As of right now, I think day 2 needs to be about Fredwood and Sooh.
Between Bsmith and Sooh, due to the vote placed on her, I lynch sooh first. If sooh is scum, bsmith just got clear. That's an excellent get for a very hard to read slot. Until Sooh looks townier, that's my default decision between those two unclears.
Between Manasi and Sooh, it's really up to their respective day 2s. I think Manasi is more townie than Sooh, but I don't discount it the other way or both. I think it's less and less likely they're both town.
Fredwood didn't get pushed or talked about much and he was mainly defensive, not solving. He's my number 1 at the moment.
Alternatively, some people who are vaguely town or nullish can also be examined and pushed. But I would like the above folks to be a big part of the discussion, especially if I die tonight.
It doesn't mean they're scum if I do, but look at them, as my request.
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 19:50
Previous game on this site. Town pizza. Sooh was in it.
This is my 6th post of that game, extremely early in the round, in fact, so early that I got some guff for even having a reads list. I don't waste time getting down to business and trying to town-read people based off of anything they can give me as early as possible, mainly because the random vote stage and joke vote stage is utterly useless to an analyst.
Sooh: "Throughout the day he does a ton of analysis, which for the time of the game and the state of the game I'd say is redundant at that point."
reactions at the time, followed by my justification:
Note the bolded.
How I ended the day 1 of that game: By voting specifically to protect my town read. Which lynched a scum. Then I shot one that night. Why? Because I try to find as many townies as possible as early as possible so that these early rounds aren't all faffing and wasted time.
Sooh, my dear, you aren't right this game.:bow:
In FrenchRev you were much more measured and cautious D1.
As for the next post, in visorSmallGame, while you were an early sub and it wasn't D1, through the late game (d3-4) you worked very hard to find townies. You made similarly elaborate cases on why so and so is probs town due to voting and process, while other so and so are probs partners because whatever - please work with me you townies, I know you are town because bla, if you think I'm scum then lynch me and we lose. And then you flipped all the reads and rhetoric, with equal reasoning and rhetoric and conviction. It was all part of playing the field to create the situation that you want. You are kind of similar to that late-game pizza so far.
Just noting a few things that weaken the overall comparisons.
Won't read the rest of night posts till later.
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 19:50
Still need to read second half of d1 posts.
I meant Pizza there not CS.
I like the biography post but I know others wouldn't. Yet I can't say on what account. Reaction test?
Montmorency
06-23-2017, 19:51
Not "biography", big post. The one by fredwood tonight.
crimson_snow
06-23-2017, 21:07
Not going to be around rest of night and probably not first 12-24 hours of D2 (if alive).
Still think Champ is very likely a wolf. I'd like to look into El Barto and Fred a bit closer on D2 - think they have pretty high wolf equity. Decent odds one of our low/no posters is a wolf too, but no real way to solve those slots yet so shrug.
Fairly sure Pizza is town, though the way he's handling Champ makes me worry that they're plausible partners. He keeps doing the "He's not townie but he's still better than last game and hey look at all these other people" thing, when I don't think Champ being better than last game is at all a reasonable take to have because he's not...posting or participating. He has two game related posts, a naked vote on the mislynch wagon, and calling Csargo town. That's it.
Sooh is a possible wolf. The catchup felt sort of superficial and going-through-the-motions, but that's mitigated by RL circumstances + EoD. There's just no real depth there.
Kind of having trouble really getting town reads as easily as I'd like given I don't know anyone very well, and there's very few people displaying conventional drive to solve the game. I kind of think Csargo is town just for going against the grain a little bit on the read of me - I feel like wolves are better at reading the room, and identifying when someone is obviously town and widely town read and just go with it. There are better places to open up possible mislynches. It's thin, but it is what it is.
I should probably try to point out what I want to look at in El Barto in case I get dunked in the night or something - I quoted (and voted for him due to) an early post of him where he kind of encouraged the pressure on DP, but didn't vote him. He did vote him after that vote and fleshed it out more, but if DP is town it feels pretty wolfy. Comes into thread and sees Pizza/Csargo bullying DP due to ??? reasons and eggs it on without actually voting there felt off.
The fact that I don't actually have a great read on DP himself is the main reason I swapped off El Barto because that's never a way someone handles a partner getting pressure I don't think. You either commit to it or you defend you don't just kind of egg them on. If I had to bet the game on guessing his alignment I'd say town, but there's very little confidence in that. I didn't like the way he was being pressured, but I've kind of come around to most of the people pressuring him being town, so that's not indicative of someone being piledriven by wolves.
I'd be kind of surprised if both Manasi and Cuth are town, but that's in that holistic kind of probability thing where they're both posting a bit but don't feel super high impact. That blending middle ground wolves so often exist in. I'll try to shore up these reads on D2 I think.
Novice should maybe be included in that grouping since I remember literally nothing they've done off top of my head. Reminder for future Crimson to re-read them. And Montemorency. And Logic.
I recall liking a post or two Winston made, but not recalling why I liked them. I also recall there just not being many of them so, there's that I guess.
I kind of hope at least one of BSmith and Autolycus is a wolf because town's probably in trouble if no posters are mislynches/misvigs. That's pretty much the extent of my feelings/reads on those slots.
Just dashed vague thoughts off here quick and I guess realized I don't have as many firm reads as I'd like after D1, but alas, life goes on. Be back in a day or so.
I love the "Sooh must be a wolf. Let's have D2 be about her before she gets a chance to get into the game"
Good plan guys. Really going to make me want to read and do the work.
Sooh is a possible wolf. The catchup felt sort of superficial and going-through-the-motions, but that's mitigated by RL circumstances + EoD. There's just no real depth there.
Catchup started 1 am and ended 3am. Sorry for no depth at that time of night. Not sure what you expect tbh.
Fredwood
06-23-2017, 23:59
Still need to read second half of d1 posts.
I like the biography post but I know others wouldn't. Yet I can't say on what account. Reaction test?
Barto voted me to open the day with a random vote, which felt strange because I was a new player, didn't know what it would really accomplish. I chose to ignore it to see if he brought it up, he did, and then I gave kind of a scummy answer. He never addressed it an moved the vote. I was expecting to see some kind of push back, otherwise why bother voting in the first place.
I don't know about big posts, other's seem to do it a lot, the good news is that there's not a lot of them because I do kind of get lost in the meta analysis.
El Barto
06-24-2017, 00:01
Missed giving a read on Champ.
I don't think his vote on Jowy was scummy, and I don't think he really needed to put a 4th vote on Jowy because I don't think Csargo was scum in need of rescuing.
Still, I can't give out town points for that vote. It can be a scum vote approximately the same frequency I'd say as randing scum in the first place.
No need to rescue Csargo? 50% of the votes on Csargo were cast by proven Innocents.
I really don't know what flinching is, so not sure how it would be textbook. I was checking in on the thread but there still no interaction with the post and more things that I had no reason to weigh in on, kind of interesting that there was pushback on it once it seemed certain I was not active in the thread. Seems convenient coupled with the fact that there was a number of people who "bugged" off after a period of time. Inconsistent stance. Pocketing the other top poster, focusing down easy mislynches (the new guy, the quiet guy, the inactive guy), using volume as a defense. I'll be inclined to think that I won't be voting for anyone who Pizza is voting for anytime soon, If you aren't scum I have 0 percent faith in your reads especially with them being so flimsy.
Good feels about: CSargo, novice, and DP because of Barto, Cuth I liked the chunk of time he was active.
People I want to feel good about: Sooh, reads are mindmelding, but have concerns about buddying (was a recent victim of buddying so I'm still scurred). Winston...if anything for him aggressively going after someone everyone seems to be afraid of. CS belittling him and dismissing him is another good look for Winston in a game where Pizza is scum.
I've noticed Logic's posts, but I haven't formulated a read yet.
Lol nice try, I reaction tested you and you failed miserably, wasn't OMGUS. I may be new to this site, but I'm not new. So good job just enforcing my stance on you by trying to misrepresent my argument.
If you go for not knowing what flinching is then the rest of your post is meaningless.
Once the sun is up I am voting for you unless we get a better candidate.
Actually now that I think of it, I might be mixing the hydra and the crossover game. The underlying point I was making doesn't change though.
But the hydra game had more than one person on each account… get back to your normal sleeping schedules.
Manasi is within her range as wolf or town. I haven't got a true scum read on her yet, I have some worries and concerns. But she should be looked at for specific reasons. These reasons can be wrong. But if the scum team has a high-poster, it's probably this person.
What are these ‘reasons’? It is not like you to just say ‘because reasons’.
[El Barto]'s not particularly spammy and I have mixed feelings. That's the generics. Specifically, I think he's not clear, but even so, many of his posts look ok and I can go into why.
I wonder what I have done this time.
Fredwood 13
This is what I'm concerned with.
Do elaborate…
El Barto
06-24-2017, 00:02
Barto voted me to open the day with a random vote, which felt strange because I was a new player, didn't know what it would really accomplish. I chose to ignore it to see if he brought it up, he did, and then I gave kind of a scummy answer. He never addressed it an moved the vote. I was expecting to see some kind of push back, otherwise why bother voting in the first place.
I don't know about big posts, other's seem to do it a lot, the good news is that there's not a lot of them because I do kind of get lost in the meta analysis.
Do you really not know what a random (random.org) vote is?
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 00:09
As to being defensive, I can't really be defensive if there isn't actually a case. I'm asking to defend myself, but aside from just saying I think Fred is scum I'm not really seeing any actual effort into seeing if I'm scum.
Also getting the whole, he's not scumhunting stick is garbage, I gave my read on multiple people and cleared a number of them who I wasn't going to pursue tomorrow. I mean I understand if Pizza keeps repeating the same accusation over and over again it will be thought into existence as groupthink, but I don't think the whole "He's not trying to scumhunt clear town" really holds weight, especially if you're asking it from other people.
I will say, I very much expect to lose a Pizza v Fred square off in this environment, but it should be fun and maybe contribute to the town solving the game.
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 00:14
Do you really not know what a random (random.org) vote is?
Yes I know what random is, my point is that it wasn't a random vote. It was a faux vote on a target not likely to be lynched day 1 to look like you're participating. If it was a random vote and I dismiss your pressure in a garbage way. Why do you say NOTHING? The reaction test was to see if it was genuinely a random vote, or just a disguised one. From my perspective it was just a disguised one.
Why bother voting if you're just going to give up that easy and not even mention it until I bring it up again? I don't see another reason other then I what I've said for not following through or even at least mentioning it.
El Barto
06-24-2017, 00:35
Yes I know what random is, my point is that it wasn't a random vote.
Images are better than words at this juncture.
:crazy:
Okay, I'm with Sooh now, I'm not liking Barto at all.
El Barto
06-24-2017, 01:08
Et tu, Csargo?
You've suddenly forgotten that my very first vote in each and every game is a random vote?
Also, what's with your sudden change of vote late in the game?
Yes I know what random is, my point is that it wasn't a random vote. It was a faux vote on a target not likely to be lynched day 1 to look like you're participating. If it was a random vote and I dismiss your pressure in a garbage way. Why do you say NOTHING? The reaction test was to see if it was genuinely a random vote, or just a disguised one. From my perspective it was just a disguised one.
Why bother voting if you're just going to give up that easy and not even mention it until I bring it up again? I don't see another reason other then I what I've said for not following through or even at least mentioning it.
I think it's pretty clear that the vote was only intended as a joke, and that there is no reason to assume that Barto was trying to get town point/look active by making it. Not sure why you think he's so scummy because of this.
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 01:18
I think it's pretty clear that the vote was only intended as a joke, and that there is no reason to assume that Barto was trying to get town point/look active by making it. Not sure why you think he's so scummy because of this.
First time Joke has been brought up, even by him. Plus he reiterated that he was voting for me after I purposefully ignored it.
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 01:24
Images are better than words at this juncture.
:crazy:
Cute, you're trying to be cute now. So you always make pointless votes that accomplishes nothing and even ignore responses to them that are scummy...cool. I'm convinced now.
El Barto
06-24-2017, 01:26
Making random votes on Day One as a joke is something of a tradition here, Mr. Wood.
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