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Fredwood
06-24-2017, 01:39
So you have an inside joke that is SOP for the meta in nearly every place I've ever played, I ask a number of times is there is a reason to reassess my read if there was any site related meta that would explain the behavior, and instead of saying ah man it's cool new guy it's just a cute lil' inside joke we have here. You wait 3 days to say it is after calling them crazy and patronizing them.
https://media.tenor.com/images/924e40a817787719b10c64a7f436a304/tenor.gif
Fair nuff. I guess Csargo had the right idea all along.
Oh no.
El Barto and Fredison fighting. :(
Mooooooom.
lol atpg/crimson are just clear i cba to read that
The problem is Sooh's "Oh nice guys when you push scum on me I wanna try soooo haaarddd" sarcasm/AtE/plea is not something I see coming from a villager.
Or at least, I don't do it as a villager and I'm bad so it must be a horrible play lol.
Fun.
So you have an inside joke that is SOP for the meta in nearly every place I've ever played, I ask a number of times is there is a reason to reassess my read if there was any site related meta that would explain the behavior, and instead of saying ah man it's cool new guy it's just a cute lil' inside joke we have here. You wait 3 days to say it is after calling them crazy and patronizing them.
https://media.tenor.com/images/924e40a817787719b10c64a7f436a304/tenor.gif
Fair nuff. I guess Csargo had the right idea all along.
I wouldn't pay much mind to Barto.
He comes off as really mean and unapproachable and not pleasant for your first few games but he's a softy I promise.
Et tu, Csargo?
You've suddenly forgotten that my very first vote in each and every game is a random vote?
Also, what's with your sudden change of vote late in the game?
Yea.
I honestly wasn't talking about your argument with Fredwood, but your replies to ATPG. Little bit of the Fredwood stuff, but not the argument just your responses give me pause. Think they're a bit on the scummy side.
Did you miss the part where I wanted to lynch DP101 for like 80% of that day? Or are you talking about Jowy? Jowy was kinda scummy, not much though, so I was okay with it.
So you have an inside joke that is SOP for the meta in nearly every place I've ever played, I ask a number of times is there is a reason to reassess my read if there was any site related meta that would explain the behavior, and instead of saying ah man it's cool new guy it's just a cute lil' inside joke we have here. You wait 3 days to say it is after calling them crazy and patronizing them.
https://media.tenor.com/images/924e40a817787719b10c64a7f436a304/tenor.gif
Fair nuff. I guess Csargo had the right idea all along.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
El Barto
06-24-2017, 02:21
I wouldn't pay much mind to Barto.
Thanks!
He comes off as really mean and unapproachable and not pleasant for your first few games but he's a softy I promise.
And by ‘really mean and unapproachable and not pleasant’ Miss Manasi means that I actually insist on proper written English and that last game I tried to vig her on Night One, correctly surmising that she was mafia.
Yea.
I honestly wasn't talking about your argument with Fredwood, but your replies to ATPG. Little bit of the Fredwood stuff, but not the argument just your responses give me pause. Think they're a bit on the scummy side.
Did you miss the part where I wanted to lynch DP101 for like 80% of that day? Or are you talking about Jowy? Jowy was kinda scummy, not much though, so I was okay with it.
What I do not understand is why you wanted to draw my vote onto Dp101 earlier in the day but not the second time you were voting him. Maybe you didn't really want Dp101 to swing? My vote would have made it 3-3 and off to a random tiebreaker. 50% is not good odds for a scummioso!Csargo.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 02:27
Fredwood quixotic town a la dicetosser?
What I do not understand is why you wanted to draw my vote onto Dp101 earlier in the day but not the second time you were voting him. Maybe you didn't really want Dp101 to swing? My vote would have made it 3-3 and off to a random tiebreaker. 50% is not good odds for a scummioso!Csargo.
I was hoping you'd follow me, suffice to say I was disappointed.
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 02:43
Fredwood quixotic town a la dicetosser?
Do you mean in the idealistic, romantic, impractical, or delusional sense?
I savvy two of those interpretations and will tilt at all your windmills for the others.
El Barto
06-24-2017, 02:54
I was hoping you'd follow me, suffice to say I was disappointed.
Or someone would...
Maybe you could have been more explicit.
Do you mean in the idealistic, romantic, impractical, or delusional sense?
I savvy two of those interpretations and will tilt at all your windmills for the others.
Do you know who dicetosser is?
Maybe you could have been more explicit.
I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have mattered, since you know, I'd been saying the entire day he was scum, so yeah.
El Barto
06-24-2017, 03:17
You spent the whole day saying he was scum and then you unvoted him! How could you expect any votes on him to remain credible? I was not about to sheep you a third time.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 03:17
Do you mean in the idealistic, romantic, impractical, or delusional sense?
I savvy two of those interpretations and will tilt at all your windmills for the others.
Do you know who dicetosser is?
Dicetosser was an on-again off-again townie participant in the Representative Democracy game hosted by Pizza in late Fall '16, AFAIK his only game here.
He vehemently called for the lynch of me and some other players because we considered Renata and Cass lock-town for lynching two scumbags, on the basis that no one can be lock-town without a confirmed mechanical basis and that pushing it made us likely mafia buddies. Obviously you're not anywhere near maintaining a comparable misguided maximalism, it's just the principle.
You spent the whole day saying he was scum and then you unvoted him! How could you expect any votes on him to remain credible? I was not about to sheep you a third time.
I figured it wasn't going to happen, since you were the only other person, so I moved. You should have.
El Barto
06-24-2017, 03:27
I figured it wasn't going to happen, since you were the only other person, so I moved. You should have.
*gapes at post*
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 03:53
Dicetosser was an on-again off-again townie participant in the Representative Democracy game hosted by Pizza in late Fall '16, AFAIK his only game here.
He vehemently called for the lynch of me and some other players because we considered Renata and Cass lock-town for lynching two scumbags, on the basis that no one can be lock-town without a confirmed mechanical basis and that pushing it made us likely mafia buddies. Obviously you're not anywhere near maintaining a comparable misguided maximalism, it's just the principle.
W/e I was referring to the use of Quixotic which is broad but a bit insulting, you didn't have to spell the insult out. If you honestly think it was a "joke" that he pointed out to make sure I didn't ignore it that 0 other people participated in, then cool, I'm not really not bothered anymore and won't push him.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 05:57
Since I only have a few minutes remaining before night ends and flips happen, I want to get this out there as briefly as possible.
"Defensive" refers to Fredwood's entire day one iso, and in more than one sense. He's much more wordy when any kind of suspicion rolled his way, and he seemed to pop up right when I was mentioning him, which is a bad coincidence. Felt to me honestly like wolfy lurking and then responding to something that interested him, which was himself. Not clearing townies, not finding scums or pushing them.
Look at the first x number of posts he made in the game, none of them having anything to do with solving. And the timestamps involved.
Very few posts of content, then responds to me suspecting him, and then dips out for the rest of the phase.
That's what I am looking at. Defensive, self-concerned scum play. Not solving.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 06:00
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/158/327/i-dont-care-what-you-say-ancient-fucking-aliens.jpg
Also, we're all a bunch of aliens and that kicks ass.
Night is over
Do not post
End of Night 1.
crickets chirping
No corpse is found.
-------
It is now Day Two.
Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule
-------
Living Players: 16
Askthepizzaguy
autolycus
BSmith
Champ
crimson_snow
Csargo
Cuthillius
Dp101
El Barto
Fredwood
Logic
Manasi
Montmorency
novice
Sooh
Winston Hughes
------
Dead Players: 1
Jowy - Faceless
Cuthillius
06-24-2017, 06:23
i n t e r e s t i n g
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 06:26
No death means it's very likely someone townie-looking got doctored properly.
Which means I am going to reiterate my point about the top 4 posters not needing to be pushed today.
Also Sooh, my love, my decision about you today will be based on what you put into it. Pre-emptively deciding you're not going to try looks bad.
Just find townies and find scums. I won't even deluge you with accusations. Have some space. Do your thing.
Then I'll judge.
It's as fair as I can be.
Same with Fredwood. On the chance his behavior is self-focused townie, my advice to him to break our deadlock is to have a better day 2. My feelings are on record, I don't have to reiterate them.
No death means it's very likely someone townie-looking got doctored properly.
Which means I am going to reiterate my point about the top 4 posters not needing to be pushed today.
Also Sooh, my love, my decision about you today will be based on what you put into it. Pre-emptively deciding you're not going to try looks bad.
Just find townies and find scums. I won't even deluge you with accusations. Have some space. Do your thing.
Then I'll judge.
It's as fair as I can be.
Same with Fredwood. On the chance his behavior is self-focused townie, my advice to him to break our deadlock is to have a better day 2. My feelings are on record, I don't have to reiterate them.
re: fredison
I think he sounds comfortable, for whatever that's worth.
At least.
His TOAN seems rather conversational. Idk how good he is at this thing I just think he's probably okay.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 06:29
Tone is fine, behavior is not.
Fredwood seems like a good guy to play with, and he's got experience playing in unfamiliar places. But, on that note, I'm going to go get to know Fredwood better since I don't feel myself in the hotseat.
That means meta-gathering. If you don't see me, I'm still doing stuff to form a better-informed opinion.
I agree with Fred being kind of defensive/bland, but I won't pass judgement until I see what he does today.
Dp101 Are we going to be friends today or nah?
Cuth you going to explain the colorful votes from yesterday? I want that sweet, sweet intel.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 06:45
No death means it's very likely someone townie-looking got doctored properly.
Which means I am going to reiterate my point about the top 4 posters not needing to be pushed today.
Also Sooh, my love, my decision about you today will be based on what you put into it. Pre-emptively deciding you're not going to try looks bad.
Just find townies and find scums. I won't even deluge you with accusations. Have some space. Do your thing.
Then I'll judge.
It's as fair as I can be.
Same with Fredwood. On the chance his behavior is self-focused townie, my advice to him to break our deadlock is to have a better day 2. My feelings are on record, I don't have to reiterate them.
Roleblock, bulletproof, MAFIA HOLSTER
But yeah, maybe.
fzzt
That's a good Cuth impersonation. Impressive.
Dp101 Are we going to be friends today or nah?
Maybe? Your little spat with Barto earlier looks weird, but I can't tell if it's scummy or not.
Maybe? Your little spat with Barto earlier looks weird, but I can't tell if it's scummy or not.
For the love of everything you're testing my patience real hard Dp101, I extend an olive branch of peace and you throw it in my face.
https://i.imgur.com/aGdThQj.gif
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 06:54
For the love of everything you're testing my patience real hard Dp101, I extend an olive branch of peace and you throw it in my face.
https://i.imgur.com/aGdThQj.gif
What do you want from him? Submission? Fealty?
Surrender of his person so you can research his vivisected body for tech goodies?
For the love of everything you're testing my patience real hard Dp101, I extend an olive branch of peace and you throw it in my face.
https://i.imgur.com/aGdThQj.gif
How do you interpret that as throwing it in your face? I'm currently in a neutral position, far better than the outright scumreading of you I was doing earlier, and you call that completely rejecting peace?
What do you want from him? Submission? Fealty?
Surrender of his person so you can research his vivisected body for tech goodies?
Seems not unlikely after that overreaction.
Cuth you going to explain the colorful votes from yesterday? I want that sweet, sweet intel.
I think it might just be that zack explicitly said he doesn't care about color.
Maybe? Your little spat with Barto earlier looks weird, but I can't tell if it's scummy or not.
For the love of everything you're testing my patience real hard Dp101, I extend an olive branch of peace and you throw it in my face.
https://i.imgur.com/aGdThQj.gif
What do you want from him? Submission? Fealty?
Surrender of his person so you can research his vivisected body for tech goodies?
All those sound nice. I would like that v much.
I think it might just be that zack explicitly said he doesn't care about color.
I'm gonna start using that then.
Vote:Manasi
Cuthillius
06-24-2017, 07:06
Cuth you going to explain the colorful votes from yesterday? I want that sweet, sweet intel.
zack was going to ctrl+f
i decided why the heck not make them colorful
that's the long and short of it
Cuthillius
06-24-2017, 07:07
I think it might just be that zack explicitly said he doesn't care about color.
this yeah
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 07:09
This is what I'm looking at;
Now that a full day has completed, and we have a flip, my process is to imagine what I'd be doing as scum in this game (which is to barely meet expectations or happily not meet them), that's in-general. Then I look for specific behavior problems. People who meet expectations and aren't lock town can be scum having a good game. But I still don't lynch there for no reason. So, who is meeting or exceeding expectations well? Who is meeting their average expectations or less, or is otherwise bad for specific reasons? This is what I think about that.
Askthepizzaguy 141
As I said, and my meta should show, this is one of the towniest games I've had in a long time. That's true even if my reads are no better than throwing darts. There's more to it than that, if I decided to make this game one of the best scum games I've ever done, out of nowhere. But, that's super dangerous in a game where it's even possible that there are vigs or third parties or serial killers or cops. And it's dangerous in general because it gets me dead. And if I don't get dead, everyone will wonder why I'm not dead come endgame.
Why couldn't it be a slight tweak to be more engaged with D1 than you may have been in some other games? That's not exactly a radical departure, and if it's one of your best scum games, well that would surely be judged in retrospect.
What do you think the scums were doing on day one, if dp101 was town and csargo was town and Jowy was town? (the main lynch candidates)
Because my suspicions go to Fredwood, Sooh, and Manasi under such a metric. Not as a complete team, maybe 1 or 2 out of those 3.
You also cannot clear auto or bsmith, monty, winston, or barto, and maybe still have specific issues with dp's game despite his high post count, but I dunno. Need to re-read him again. And even those people you cannot clear, now you go through them specifically and see if you can't find more people you're not supposed to be lynching.
But I do think you back off csargo, crimson, me x1000, and even dp101 for at least 1 round. I think the day ones from all of those 4 warrant it.
The other aspect of the multi-wagon you have discussed in the past is that it is often bad for scum precisely because they have not been able to avoid that distribution coming about. In that light it is plausible to see the Jowy lynch as involving at least 1 scum after the original 2 votes, a scum sufficiently dissociated from the thrust of the day and some of the specific wagons and their drivers, to come in and seal the deal before some townie shows up and places the exact wrong vote. There are so many scenarios involving this logic that one wouldn't even want to venture into them - well, other than someone like you. Why haven't you mentioned this possibility in its permutations, since it seems like just the sort of thing you would love to game out, if only for future reference.
Disagree about Manasi, she's played very similar to the last game I feel, until maybe EoD.
Really? Manasi seems much more focused this game. Last game you were both quite flighty and lolcatty, not just under pressure but overall. Manasi's activity is more grounded in the game course - isn't yours as well?
How do you interpret that as throwing it in your face? I'm currently in a neutral position, far better than the outright scumreading of you I was doing earlier, and you call that completely rejecting peace?
This is my problem with you. Every accusation you've thrown at me has been neutralish. You say I'm scummy, but then you come out the other side with 'it doesn't make sense' or some form of ambivalence, like you don't believe anything you're saying. You've done it numerous times, and it's never felt like you've actually thought I was scummy. This is my conundrum with you Dp101 this game.
Really? Manasi seems much more focused this game. Last game you were both quite flighty and lolcatty, not just under pressure but overall. Manasi's activity is more grounded in the game course - isn't yours as well?
Not until EoD I'd disagree, felt pretty similar to me. Most recent stuff was definitely as you've described though, so I'm leaning Manasi town right now.
Unvote:
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 07:19
Roleblock, bulletproof, MAFIA HOLSTER
:laugh4:
I know you're not serious, but I think it's amazing that you'd even imagine that possibility. I don't think I've ever seen a holster night one from mafia.
I'm not implying anything here, it just never would cross my mind as a possibility.
The part of the game where protection is least likely to succeed, and it's the easiest to avoid obvious protection targets. Why would you ever holster on night one. Townies gotta die and they're everywhere. You can even use the kill to make yourself look good with levels and wifom. You don't have to attack someone you need dead. Attacking someone you don't need dead makes it hard to understand what the mafia's agenda is, it's basically just as good.
Like the time I nightkilled Alette, and everyone was like lol that kill sucked, and then it didn't suck after all.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 07:21
I'm gonna start using that then.
Vote:Manasi
My eyes! God that's awful.
:laugh4:
I know you're not serious, but I think it's amazing that you'd even imagine that possibility. I don't think I've ever seen a holster night one from mafia.
I'm not implying anything here, it just never would cross my mind as a possibility.
The part of the game where protection is least likely to succeed, and it's the easiest to avoid obvious protection targets. Why would you ever holster on night one. Townies gotta die and they're everywhere. You can even use the kill to make yourself look good with levels and wifom. You don't have to attack someone you need dead. Attacking someone you don't need dead makes it hard to understand what the mafia's agenda is, it's basically just as good.
Like the time I nightkilled Alette, and everyone was like lol that kill sucked, and then it didn't suck after all.
What game was that?
I fell out of my chair when he said holster tbh.
My eyes! God that's awful.
I think you mean beautiful my good sir!
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 07:23
zack was going to ctrl+f
i decided why the heck not make them colorful
that's the long and short of it
Lesson learned: Don't be a unique individual.
It was this close to being a lost wolf tinfoil after townreading you, just so you know.
That might have been the dumbest lynch you'd ever get, and I'm pretty sure you've been the subject of some dumb lynches before.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 07:24
What game was that?
I fell out of my chair when he said holster tbh.
The all caps sold it.
That's the reason why I felt like he was joking. There are times when I can't even tell.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 07:26
The all caps sold it.
That's the reason why I felt like he was joking. There are times when I can't even tell.
I may have been joking about one of the three things?
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 07:32
What game was that?
This (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-Concluded)
Alette is Scarlett Aria. No one figured out why she died ever. Scum did great.
Cuthillius
06-24-2017, 07:40
Lesson learned: Don't be a unique individual.
It was this close to being a lost wolf tinfoil after townreading you, just so you know.
That might have been the dumbest lynch you'd ever get, and I'm pretty sure you've been the subject of some dumb lynches before.
i care
very, very, very little
This (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-Concluded)
Alette is Scarlett Aria. No one figured out why she died ever. Scum did great.
We were talking about it earlier, but she couldn't remember the name. I can see why.
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 08:15
So don't make wall posts cus none of you moths read them, because I've cleared like 4 people already, and have said I'd like to clear a few more but have concerns.
I doubt I'll be scum hunting this phase cus you guys are meanies and the last time I scum hunted I was treated like the lady at the Supermarket that starts yelling about the potatoes not being arranged properly.
BRB going to therapist.
"Anybody know a good therapist?"
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 08:17
Why couldn't it be a slight tweak to be more engaged with D1 than you may have been in some other games? That's not exactly a radical departure, and if it's one of your best scum games, well that would surely be judged in retrospect.
I have a long, meandering response to this that I feel would be better read in postgame so it won't be read as something I'd say to win a game. It's about my approach as either alignment and it's so self-focused that I don't feel it would do anything here but distract from the work that needs to be done, and I spent way more time on it than I should have.
I'm saving it to a wordpad, you can see it in postgame.
The extremely short version is that it's better for me specifically to invest early as town because I tend to die one way or the other, so if I'm gonna catch a scum or stop bad lynches I need to do it now, and it's better for me specifically to invest less as mafia under many different circumstances (including day 1s), because people see more posts of mine, they tend to find things to tinfoil over. This is only not true if there are a ton of overperforming townies. I can find several select games where town had enormous investment and therefore I had to match it, but this is extremely rare. And truth be told, even in games where I couldn't match it, I still did okay, bafflingly. It's also good to give people less info about my team from spew, and my goal is simply to cause damage as scum. Not survive. Sometimes it happens anyway.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 08:41
Question to Fredwood
lol
So what I saw with Barts vote and dismissal was a null push and asking non-solving questions? I don't see how, I literally said he was my top scummread today and stated why, then asked if I should rethink the read (no one has even addressed it outside of novice). I thought it was based on his lax pressure vote and ignoring of my response (which I thought was a bit scum), then cleared 3 people that I likely think are town. I have no input on the meta-analysis that is rampant currently, and I still gave my strongest reads with rather specific reasons for them.
And I am scum hunting, this is why I'm asking you this question. In my mind it was super specific in the reasons I was voting and not voting for those people (with the exception of CS),for you to say it wasn't either means there's a disconnect either intentionally or unintentionally. If it was a bad read for bad reasons, I can handle the critique, it's kind of why I'm playing here, to actually get better.
Who did you clear by this point in time and post number in the game?
I'm re-reading to see if I missed something, and what I'm seeing are "slight" town leans. I didn't sleep very well so I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility that my reading comprehension is really bad. I'm staring at lots and lots of posts right now and it's all starting to blur.
Assistance on this point would be great in terms of being able to tell if you're on the level or exaggerating.
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 08:56
So had a mod moment. Could the lack of the NK be kind of representative of the XCom game. So much of the game is about setting up the ambush and getting the positioning just right. Maybe they couldn't kill N1, and will have multiple kills on other nights. That's more of a "this would be cool" workshop type thing then really a helpful thing, but it was a thought.
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 09:03
Question to Fredwood
Who did you clear by this point in time and post number in the game?
I'm re-reading to see if I missed something, and what I'm seeing are "slight" town leans. I didn't sleep very well so I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility that my reading comprehension is really bad. I'm staring at lots and lots of posts right now and it's all starting to blur.
Assistance on this point would be great in terms of being able to tell if you're on the level or exaggerating.
I had the point on DP, but felt the Bart's vote on him cleared DP for that phase and that post was just a bad one.
I also had Csargo as a town lean, and you specifically on your insistence that you were forcing yourself to go to bed but still kept posting. Tonally felt like genuine excitement about the game.
It was a lengthy post where I said them, so formatting the names in bold in big posts is probably advised.
I tend to give more credit to my town reads then my scum reads in general though.
I also posted a bit of a wall after the Jowy flip where I TR a few more.
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 09:09
I had the point on DP, but felt the Bart's vote on him cleared DP for that phase and that post was just a bad one.
I also had Csargo as a town lean, and you specifically on your insistence that you were forcing yourself to go to bed but still kept posting. Tonally felt like genuine excitement about the game.
It was a lengthy post where I said them, so formatting the names in bold in big posts is probably advised.
I tend to give more credit to my town reads then my scum reads in general though.
I also posted a bit of a wall after the Jowy flip where I TR a few more.
Also my definition of clearing may be different then yours, my process is more looking for positive then negative, so if I'm mentioning positive leans or even if I say slight leans I'm typically clearing them for that phase.
I did get pinged by Bart and tried something a bit foreign to my playstyle, maybe it contributed to the awkwardness of the interaction, maybe it didn't and Bart is actually scum and I just broken clocked him.
Skimmed to the end, caught up to page 7.
I'd love to say that this behaviour, coming from champ, is atypical of an average game of his, but unfortunately, this isn't uncommon enough from him to easily write him off as frozen.
The initial enthusiasm followed by not playing, Crimson described it, IS atypical though.
What made you come around so quickly on this by the way, in post 500 you say:
"You know, I'm actually becoming gradually mroe ok with a Champ lynch. Him just popping in really does not feel that typical of his play."
Brief insight: if Dp101 is scum, I find it unlikely that novice is on his team. I saw at least one post by novice that looks like too convincing a case for Dp101 and novice to be on the same team.
Are you saying I made a convincing case on Dp101? Where?
so, like
nobody who's been on the table all day except dp?
This kind of feels disingenuous. Champ, El Barto, Jowy have all gotten serious votes that I can recall off top of head, while I think Csargo is only one of those that has.
Agreed.
If you lynch inside my townies, or me, after the day I had today.
Why is no one voting Jowy?
I'm about to put my vote back on dp101. But I honestly don't get how you guys are letting an obviously fake process like his fly.
Question/analysis task for everyone, really: How did we end up lynching Jowy after Pizza repeatedly promised to vote Dp101?
Fredwood didn't do anything since I slightly scum read him but post this and peace out.
No one followed up on this guy either.
This is a textbook flinch.
Why am I the only one who engaged with Fredwood regarding his theories? I think his case on El Barto was perfectly valid, but it seems people are trying to hush it up.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 09:29
I had the point on DP, but felt the Bart's vote on him cleared DP for that phase and that post was just a bad one.
I also had Csargo as a town lean, and you specifically on your insistence that you were forcing yourself to go to bed but still kept posting. Tonally felt like genuine excitement about the game.
It was a lengthy post where I said them, so formatting the names in bold in big posts is probably advised.
I tend to give more credit to my town reads then my scum reads in general though.
I also posted a bit of a wall after the Jowy flip where I TR a few more.
Don't take this as pressure, I'm not doing pressure today. I got most of the info I needed last round due to tallies and content.
The issue I am having with this characterization is, you said "cleared", and to me, a slight town lean is not clear. Those are worlds apart and this is not a nitpick. It's a big deal, because you're giving yourself credit for clears, which is much harder to do that give someone a slight town lean.
Clears means you'll probably go to bat for them if the lynch vote is between them and a null. People's reads fluctuate, and a slight town lean and a null can switch places very easily and for little reasons. It doesn't paint you into a corner like clearing townies does.
Csargo was slight town lean, so was I.
I'll give you the read on me, in fairness, because of the specifics you gave.
That said, I read your commentary on dp and it calls out his post as scummy and talks about why for a while, and in the end, it really wasn't obvious to me how strong your lean was on dp and it didn't seem very confident at all, and truth be told, I can't tell if your lean there was town. It looked a bit like fence straddling.
Anything that happened after the referenced post is something I can look at, but not in terms of a time-frame analysis. At the time, you said you had already cleared 3 townies. If you clear people later that doesn't justify the earlier assertion.
In my opinion, that claim that you had cleared 3 people is inaccurate. And based on the way you worded it (in your own words, you said slight, and then you said clear, which means I think you have a difference between the two in your own mind, not just how I view it) I think you knew it was inaccurate.
I think you were exaggerating how much solving you had done.
Can you have done that as town? Yes, but I don't know why you would. And I don't find it that common. My impression of you is that you're not particularly someone who tends to exaggerate your accomplishments. You seem put together and more sensible than that.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 09:30
Also my definition of clearing may be different then yours, my process is more looking for positive then negative, so if I'm mentioning positive leans or even if I say slight leans I'm typically clearing them for that phase.
I'll consider this explanation. Trying really hard to keep an open mind and not tunnel here.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 09:33
I found this tally interesting in my re-reading. I stopped and looked for potential partner exclusions.
Teal are the strong town leans I have currently.
Green are the mild town leans I have currently.
Light green indicates I favor Manasi in a lot of situations where it is either Manasi or the other party (ex: Sooh or Champ) but it's not strong.
Purple is the not-mafia lean I have on Monty.
No scum leans put on the board.
Official Tally as of #593
2 Champ (crimson_snow, Jowy)
2 Csargo (Dp101, novice)
2 El Barto (Fredwood, Sooh)
2 Jowy (Askthepizzaguy, Csargo)
2 Montmorency (Logic, Cuthillius)
2 Sooh (BSmith, Manasi)
1 Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency)
1 Dp101 (El Barto)
1 Logic (Winston Hughes)
1 Manasi (Champ)
1 novice (autolycus)
Based on this, if Champ is scum it clears snow, which isn't a lot of people but I think there were others who bothered to scum-push champ yesterday and I think those can be genuine pushes from towns, if he's scum. I think Manasi gets a town lean that expires close to endgame if Champ is scum.
One of Auto and novice can be scum, would not anticipate both. Not even saying I'm leaning that way, just noting it's not a couple probably.
Fred or Sooh flipping scum looks great for El Barto. They look very unaligned with Barto and vice-versa.
Sooh flipping scum looks great for Bsmith, but it's too easy distancing to lock him town. I'd give him a round or two.
Barto flipping scum would give Fredwood and Sooh at least a round or two of relief. They're individually problematic enough that I don't know if I ever lock them town, but the scum team really should not be Barto-Fred or Barto-Sooh. So if Barto was scum I think I have to swallow both of those reads and start hunting inside places like Winston or Autolycus. Probably Champ first, in that universe.
Csargo and novice are not a couple, I don't think. Not really thinking that was a strong possibility anyway.
Auto probably not scum with Novice.
Champ can be scum with almost everyone.
Winston and Logic low odds of being a scum team.
Monty scum clears Logic and Cuth quite well.
This is why I like the low tallies on day one, folks. It's quite pro-town for analysts. This isn't always precise but it narrows a lot of possible universes which gives scums less wiggle room even when the game should still be wide open.
Now, unlikely tinfoils.
If Csargo is scum, Dp101 is clean, and novice looks pretty damned good, because Csargo was getting a lot of town reads. You don't put the 2nd vote on him there as his partner, especially when he's feeling 50 times peppier this game than most others I've seen. Novice basically lock clear unless it's final 3, in Csargo-scum universe.
Dp101 scum clears the folks that pushed him early, but not late. He looked bad so bussing probs increase after mid-round.
Logic scum looks great for Winston and Monty. Additionally I don't see why Cuth (as Logic's scum buddy) would place his vote in the above manner. Too many other good places to put it. That's a good vote for Logic-Cuth scum team because it is anti-analysis, but I think the odds are very low that's where that vote goes.
Manasi scum might clear someone, but she was never under serious pressure. Even Champ's vote was looking like a mutual early game vote. So not based off of this tally. I might be overlooking something, have to look at Manasi-Champ interactions again to make a judgment.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 09:46
Also my definition of clearing may be different then yours, my process is more looking for positive then negative, so if I'm mentioning positive leans or even if I say slight leans I'm typically clearing them for that phase.
I did get pinged by Bart and tried something a bit foreign to my playstyle, maybe it contributed to the awkwardness of the interaction, maybe it didn't and Bart is actually scum and I just broken clocked him.
If he is scum then you look much better.
I will say he is fantastically difficult to read for me. I don't know if I ever lock clear Barto in any game without a cop check. Not because I'm afraid of him, just because his behavior and thinking process is so different from mine. I can't tell what he would or wouldn't do and I've scummed with him before and I can't really process him by putting myself in his shoes.
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 10:11
Don't take this as pressure, I'm not doing pressure today. I got most of the info I needed last round due to tallies and content.
The issue I am having with this characterization is, you said "cleared", and to me, a slight town lean is not clear. Those are worlds apart and this is not a nitpick. It's a big deal, because you're giving yourself credit for clears, which is much harder to do that give someone a slight town lean.
Clears means you'll probably go to bat for them if the lynch vote is between them and a null. People's reads fluctuate, and a slight town lean and a null can switch places very easily and for little reasons. It doesn't paint you into a corner like clearing townies does.
Csargo was slight town lean, so was I.
I'll give you the read on me, in fairness, because of the specifics you gave.
That said, I read your commentary on dp and it calls out his post as scummy and talks about why for a while, and in the end, it really wasn't obvious to me how strong your lean was on dp and it didn't seem very confident at all, and truth be told, I can't tell if your lean there was town. It looked a bit like fence straddling.
Anything that happened after the referenced post is something I can look at, but not in terms of a time-frame analysis. At the time, you said you had already cleared 3 townies. If you clear people later that doesn't justify the earlier assertion.
In my opinion, that claim that you had cleared 3 people is inaccurate. And based on the way you worded it (in your own words, you said slight, and then you said clear, which means I think you have a difference between the two in your own mind, not just how I view it) I think you knew it was inaccurate.
I think you were exaggerating how much solving you had done.
Can you have done that as town? Yes, but I don't know why you would. And I don't find it that common. My impression of you is that you're not particularly someone who tends to exaggerate your accomplishments. You seem put together and more sensible than that.
Maybe but at the time you said 0 solving. Semantics aside I was not going to vote for you, CS or DP last phase. I don't see how it's exaggeration, especially with the caveat that I didn't have a lot of reads because Day 1 was a lot of meta analysis that I didn't have enough reference to weigh in on. so from my POV it's rather significant given the both the situation and the nature of most day 1's. So I do think the reverse of what you say about me and exaggeration can be said in regards to you about minimizing a person's contribution.
As for DP, to me as long as Bart is alive, I will not vote for DP. Yes it's not a town read per say, it's a contingent town read I guess.
I wasn't posting my post Jowy flip post as justification I was posting it as reference to what I view as a similar post even after you said I had done 0 solving, why would I ever lynch even my slightest of town leans? I doubt I'll be hardclearing many people this game non-mechanically because this is my first time playing with all of you.
Also, I just like arguing and talking about me. Answering this has less to do with me viewing it as pressure as much as it does with me being full of myself.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 10:35
Is there anything presently hampering your ability to be active in any way?
I don't care what it is specifically, a yes or no is fine and I'll leave it at that.
How do you feel about the game state?
In any case, time is basically up for a lot of people this round.
Sooh and I are not going to be around I'd imagine, just due to where we live on the earth.
A lot of people have already peaced out for the round, and many of them were my suspects, and those people looked super comfortable with the tally.
I think this is a mislynch or non-scum lynch in progress, just by reading the room.
I think those of us who are here need to throw our weight around and push a scum now.
If you're not following me then I need a scummy candidate I can lynch. And most of the folks with votes ain't cutting it.
Csargo I'd lynch Jowy, Fredwood, Novice, and very few other people.
I gotta go. What's the call?
Two townies and a town lean, nice. Waiting for people to go offline and then starting lynch wagons on them is not the best process.
Your pussyfooting around with scum reading Jowy but also everyone voting him means I'm going to cap you here, dp101.
Vote Jowy or die.
I thought Dp's posts on Jowy had a natural progression:
I think that Jowy is not the worst option, but I am rather partial to that sweet sweet Pizza tinfoil that Monty is putting out there.
Confidence in Csargo read dropping by the second.
(In response to Jowy voting Csargo)
I was moderately ready to vote Jowy before this, Pizza's opinion on him not notwithstanding, but this just makes the wagon look even more scummy to me.
(In response to Champ voting Jowy)
I dunno. I feel that Jowy is rather scummy, but I just hate the behaviour of those on him.
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 10:58
Is there anything presently hampering your ability to be active in any way?
I don't care what it is specifically, a yes or no is fine and I'll leave it at that.
How do you feel about the game state?
Aside from sleep and just buying CIV VI no, not really...I have an eclectic sleep schedule because of my work, so I tend to be active when I am active.
The game state as in what, in regards to other places I've played? P. standard day 1 more meta dependence then usual which is why the low post count (though I could have probably had like 10 more if I broke up my walls). That probably dies down as the game goes on though, which would mean I have more things to post about.
The least convincing person who commented on Jowy was Manasi.
Jowy's fakepeek and cop cover was downright terrible and wouldn't have convinced town or scums alike, in my view. Manasi hanging on to that almost 2 full days later and bringing it up as her only comment about Jowy isn't realistic to me as an actual defense.
Yeah I would like to see Manasi's response to this.
If Manasi is scum and got a moderate townread from me, her behavior toward Jowy this game should be looked at.
This is strangely formulated though, what are you trying to say? It's a little late to cross-examine Jowy, and if Manasi is scum we should lynch her, right?
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 11:18
Yeah I would like to see Manasi's response to this.
This is strangely formulated though, what are you trying to say? It's a little late to cross-examine Jowy, and if Manasi is scum we should lynch her, right?
The sentence is a bit garbled.
If Manasi got a moderate townread from me and is scum, her behavior toward Jowy this game should be looked at (to determine if that is the case).
Which is also not a great sentence. The "if" doesn't really apply.
It should be "her behavior toward Jowy should be looked at to determine if Manasi is scum". A lot simpler, but that thought was happening at the same time I'm thinking I've got a moderate townread on her and what if she's scum.
Those thoughts all combined into one cluster of a sentence.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 11:21
The game state as in what, in regards to other places I've played? P. standard day 1 more meta dependence then usual which is why the low post count (though I could have probably had like 10 more if I broke up my walls). That probably dies down as the game goes on though, which would mean I have more things to post about.
Are you optimistic? Is town in a good spot right now or a bad spot, do you think?
Vote: Jowy
A bad day ended by a bad vote.
Vote: Champ
For everyone's perusal, here was the tally before this vote:
Lynch votes
3 votes: Csargo (Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751867#post2053751867), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752110#post2053752110), Jowy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752246#post2053752246))
3 votes: Jowy (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752029#post2053752029), Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752216#post2053752216), El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752253#post2053752253))
2 votes: Sooh (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751655#post2053751655), Manasi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752136#post2053752136))
2 votes: El Barto (Fredwood (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751947#post2053751947), Sooh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752187#post2053752187))
2 votes: Montmorency (Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752145#post2053752145), Cuthillius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752179#post2053752179))
1 votes: Manasi (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751579#post2053751579))
1 votes: Champ (crimson_snow (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752056#post2053752056))
1 votes: Novice (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751651#post2053751651))
1 votes: Pizza (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751677#post2053751677))
1 votes: Logic (Winston Hughes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752149#post2053752149))
Voting history:
Manasi
Champ
No Lynch
Fredwood
Dp101
No Lynch
Askthepizzaguy
crimson_snow
Askthepizzaguy
Novice
Novice
Winston Hughes
Autolycus
Sooh
Manasi
Pizza
El barto
ATPG
Dp101
dp101
Cuthillius
El Barto
Dp101
Csargo
monty
El Barto
Cuthilius
Unvote
Montmorency
Jowy
Champ
csargo
Csargo
Champ
Sooh
Montmorency
Logic
Unvote
montmorency
El Barto
Jowy
csargo
Jowy
@Cuthilius: What turned you off voting Csargo yesterday?
Will study N1 and D2 later.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 11:32
A bad day ended by a bad vote.
Other than Jowy's alignment being town, what was bad about day one?
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 11:35
I'll even make it a softball question. I think it would be a scummy narrative to call day one bad. Or be at all unenthusiastic about the game state.
No death last night is great, and the actual information that can be gleaned by the tally for much of the round is extremely useful for pairing analysis.
And I have a lot more townies than I did at end of day 1 than start of day 1.
The narrative that day one was bad, is wolfy as hell.
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 11:35
Are you optimistic? Is town in a good spot right now or a bad spot, do you think?
Well it's early? Good position, day 2 and we're only down 1 townie. Why has yet to be seen, I'm going to tinfoil my mod workshop thought though. You're leading the phases but have enough pushback on you so you're not uncontested so it's a balanced domination, which is my preferred scenario. Good amount of info out there to dissect once we get that scum flip.
Askthepizzaguy
06-24-2017, 11:40
Well it's early? Good position, day 2 and we're only down 1 townie. Why has yet to be seen, I'm going to tinfoil my mod workshop thought though. You're leading the phases but have enough pushback on you so you're not uncontested so it's a balanced domination, which is my preferred scenario. Good amount of info out there to dissect once we get that scum flip.
This is a good answer.
And a good crosspost.
My remaining issue is, if the game state is so positive, what are you doing right now for town, with that optimism in your mind?
What have you been looking at for the past few hours. Any new impressions?
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 12:27
Well, tbf it's just been me you and novice having a cas q&a sess for the last few hours, so nothing has changed aside from enforcing what I felt. I read the EOD 2 times, probably 3 times while I was compiling my thoughts. I had no interaction or read on Jowwy before he was even voted for. But I'm afraid I'm already suffering from a little group think and would be parroting there, so I'll observe with interest DP's and Novice's threads about that.
Novice has graduated to probably my strongest town read currently. I'm still paranoid about buddying, so that's in the back of my mind when seeing some of his posts. I do feel the effort is genuine and is less likely to be a case of buddying the new guy then Sooh because his content has been high effort this phase.
My plan is to try to get a better read on nulls, primarily Manasi (though I have a feeling that might be a lost cause) and logic, which I think won't be.
Fredwood
06-24-2017, 12:29
This is a good answer.
And a good crosspost.
My remaining issue is, if the game state is so positive, what are you doing right now for town, with that optimism in your mind?
What have you been looking at for the past few hours. Any new impressions?
Oh and if in regards to you, I don't know I'm at a weird place. I'm still giving you a ton of credit for the tonal read I got earlier, but have concerns about your reads borne out of what I think was an inaccurate representation of mine and possibly a few others
The narrative that day one was bad, is wolfy as hell.
A bad day by Champ.
ISOs bottom up.
Autolucus is a great big ??? with his 1 post.
BSmith not much better with two. Him placing a joke vote on someone to start off the game isn't uncommon. He did the same last game. Him leaving it when he came back and arguably didn't know much about game state is more troubling to me, but I guess there was no real danger that I was being lynched at the point he popped in again.
Logic has many gif posts, jokes and quips. Not much in terms of content otherwise. I don't know why people are townreading him (by people here I guess I mean Pizza, because he's the only one I remember having Logic up high). If anyone is reading him town, can you please let me know why?
Winston started the game with a miller claim, which he later redacted. I think him feeling confident enough to do so is a good sign, plus the fact that he cared enough to follow up when Manasi missed his question. Also he's scum leaning on Logic, which I like :P
Champ not paying attention to the game again. NAI.
Those were the easy ISOs. On to the bigger ones.
Fredwood: Classical new player until #345 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053751947&viewfull=1#post2053751947). I understand the read on El Barto from someone not used to him. I can also see what he's saying about DP, so good feels in general about that post.
I don't understand who #399 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053752015&viewfull=1#post2053752015) is talking to. Is it to Pizza? I feel like I'm missing context.
From what I see Fredwood is mixing up joke votes with pressure/random votes, which is fine for someone not used to the concept. I still feel pretty good about this ISO, and while I see the defensive that's being brought up I don't think it's unnatural in this case where it's a new player on a new site who's being bugged repeatedly about one misunderstanding. I still have a town lean here.
Montmorency:
#119 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053751712&viewfull=1#post2053751712) is wut? I don't see how that question led to that answer.
I don't think Monty goes all in on Pizza as scum if Pizza is town. At least that's something I don't remember seeing before. I dislike on both ends the attempts to discredit one another's reads and feels. It will never impress me.
A wish for D2: Can you make more reads all around so that I know your stance on people who aren't Pizza? I don't see Pizza lynched D2 this game, even if he is scum.
I'm having a hard time seeing Monty/Pizza V/V here. One or both may be wolves.
El Barto:
Obvious joke vote on Fredwood.
Sidenote: After 4 posts in the game, all jokes, Pizza thinks El Barto is cagey.
Another sidenote: Ugh I'm tunneling Pizza.
Why did you vote Jowy here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053752253&viewfull=1#post2053752253)?
Conclusion: lol.
I don't have the same positive vibes from El Barto that I did last game, but at the same time I'm not sure how much negative there is. On second read through he seems ok-ish? I don't feel like he's town for me yet, though I do like his continued questioning for clarification on people's votes and posts.
Novice: I like #83 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053751664&viewfull=1#post2053751664), #121 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053751715&viewfull=1#post2053751715), #348 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053751953&viewfull=1#post2053751953) (he said earlier he was going to go back to check and then did), the list can go on and on, because I think he's showing incentive to solve, townie process and I like what I'm seeing, even if volume is down from the previous game.
Sidenote: I think #826 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053752498&viewfull=1#post2053752498) is a townie point for Pizza.
Short break before continuing.
Read Cuth ISO and feel relatively good about it. I don't have any particular posts to point out, but overall doesn't seem very agenda-y and seems to voice his opinions.
Manasi:
I don't like this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053752003&viewfull=1#post2053752003). Idk if it's a joke, but if true I really don't like it. She also voted me towards EOD and made no comment I think to what I posted, but moved her vote rather late to DP101. I don't like that she had no further opinion of me stated at all. Scum lean.
Crimson is very much pushing a wifom read of himself. I don't know why he would do that. His first page and a half of ISO seems oddly self centered, advocating a cop check of himself and teasing about hoping he's not the GF etc. There's a lot of "Read me like this" "Don't read me like this" which to me is strange as any alignment, but for him to keep the focus so very much on himself as scum is probably not a thing that happens. Then again it's very scummy to be very self aware, so ugh.
Said he'd be back before EOD, didn't post again until middle of the Night phase.
I'm at null here very much.
Too lazy to read Pizza, Csargo and DP ISO, at least right now.
TL:DR
Askthepizzaguy - 164
autolycus - 1 - ???
BSmith - 2 - ???
Champ - 18 - ????
crimson_snow - 67 - ???
Csargo - 113
Cuthillius - 54 - mild town
Dp101 - 98
El Barto - 37 - null to town
Fredwood - 28 - towny
Logic - 14 - scummy
Manasi - 57 - scummy
Montmorency - 31 - null to scum
novice - 40 - towny
Sooh - 28 - town
Winston Hughes - 17 - Towny
A bad day ended by a bad vote.
Vote: Champ
For everyone's perusal, here was the tally before this vote:
Lynch votes
3 votes: Csargo (Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751867#post2053751867), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752110#post2053752110), Jowy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752246#post2053752246))
3 votes: Jowy (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752029#post2053752029), Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752216#post2053752216), El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752253#post2053752253))
2 votes: Sooh (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751655#post2053751655), Manasi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752136#post2053752136))
2 votes: El Barto (Fredwood (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751947#post2053751947), Sooh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752187#post2053752187))
2 votes: Montmorency (Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752145#post2053752145), Cuthillius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752179#post2053752179))
1 votes: Manasi (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751579#post2053751579))
1 votes: Champ (crimson_snow (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752056#post2053752056))
1 votes: Novice (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751651#post2053751651))
1 votes: Pizza (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053751677#post2053751677))
1 votes: Logic (Winston Hughes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751&p=2053752149#post2053752149))
Voting history:
@Cuthilius: What turned you off voting Csargo yesterday?
Will study N1 and D2 later.
He saved my life, the man's a gosh darn hero if you ask me!
Cuthillius
06-24-2017, 17:13
@Cuthilius: What turned you off voting Csargo yesterday?
Will study N1 and D2 later.
talked about it a bit yesterday, liked a bit of the tonal stuff afterwards
still not sure how i feel about it
i'm at the point where i'm almost sure there's at least one scum in pizza/csargo
but i'm not quite sure there's one scum in pizza/csargo
i think IF csargo is scum there's quite a solid chance of pizza being such along with him, what with his defense and townreading of csargo being to an unusually disproportionate level compared with the rest of the game
like you look around thread and say, yo, who really thinks csargo's town
and that's mostly pizza, but then some people seem to be taking that and running with it because pizza said it
if y'know what i mean
reverse i don't think is NECESSARILY as likely
but
they COULD both be town
i'm just looking around the game nonplussed
if they ARE, then i'd be looking more at barto/sooh/manasi/auto/winston group
if they aren't everything makes more sense buuut at the same time
hrmhrmhrmhrm
i do get the sense that pizza's been misrepresenting people and cases he's talked about in ways that seem ??? as town, but
i don't KNOW the inner workings of his mind
it just seems like he's creating a framework of people and townies and scums and pushing it super aggressively
which could be fine, could be town leading, could be great
but on the whole i'm not too fond of the way he's been going about doing that or reading people to achieve said framework
yesterday when he picks up on jowy, he's all hey i think he's scummy, and then ASKS THE THREAD AT LARGE why they think jowy's town, ignores, gets any people together he can, and today makes lame excuses about "at least he feels good he lynched there"
he frames things like my colored votes in a very odd way
rather than something like "people could have gotten paranoid" he was all "that could have made me tinfoil you and something something GET LYNCHED"
it was completely blowing everything out of proportion in a way that just didn't really make sense
i think the meta arguments are wholly wifom, highly variable and undependable, and a waste of time
anyway, this is where i feel most comfortable today
vote:askthepizzaguy
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 18:13
I found this tally interesting in my re-reading. I stopped and looked for potential partner exclusions.
Teal are the strong town leans I have currently.
Green are the mild town leans I have currently.
Light green indicates I favor Manasi in a lot of situations where it is either Manasi or the other party (ex: Sooh or Champ) but it's not strong.
Purple is the not-mafia lean I have on Monty.
No scum leans put on the board.
Based on this, if Champ is scum it clears snow, which isn't a lot of people but I think there were others who bothered to scum-push champ yesterday and I think those can be genuine pushes from towns, if he's scum. I think Manasi gets a town lean that expires close to endgame if Champ is scum.
One of Auto and novice can be scum, would not anticipate both. Not even saying I'm leaning that way, just noting it's not a couple probably.
Fred or Sooh flipping scum looks great for El Barto. They look very unaligned with Barto and vice-versa.
Sooh flipping scum looks great for Bsmith, but it's too easy distancing to lock him town. I'd give him a round or two.
Barto flipping scum would give Fredwood and Sooh at least a round or two of relief. They're individually problematic enough that I don't know if I ever lock them town, but the scum team really should not be Barto-Fred or Barto-Sooh. So if Barto was scum I think I have to swallow both of those reads and start hunting inside places like Winston or Autolycus. Probably Champ first, in that universe.
Csargo and novice are not a couple, I don't think. Not really thinking that was a strong possibility anyway.
Auto probably not scum with Novice.
Champ can be scum with almost everyone.
Winston and Logic low odds of being a scum team.
Monty scum clears Logic and Cuth quite well.
This is why I like the low tallies on day one, folks. It's quite pro-town for analysts. This isn't always precise but it narrows a lot of possible universes which gives scums less wiggle room even when the game should still be wide open.
Now, unlikely tinfoils.
If Csargo is scum, Dp101 is clean, and novice looks pretty damned good, because Csargo was getting a lot of town reads. You don't put the 2nd vote on him there as his partner, especially when he's feeling 50 times peppier this game than most others I've seen. Novice basically lock clear unless it's final 3, in Csargo-scum universe.
Dp101 scum clears the folks that pushed him early, but not late. He looked bad so bussing probs increase after mid-round.
Logic scum looks great for Winston and Monty. Additionally I don't see why Cuth (as Logic's scum buddy) would place his vote in the above manner. Too many other good places to put it. That's a good vote for Logic-Cuth scum team because it is anti-analysis, but I think the odds are very low that's where that vote goes.
Manasi scum might clear someone, but she was never under serious pressure. Even Champ's vote was looking like a mutual early game vote. So not based off of this tally. I might be overlooking something, have to look at Manasi-Champ interactions again to make a judgment.
In this kind of post, please more analysis on the road to that tally (i.e. timing and pushes). Multi-ties are bad for mafia, but they don't control all of them so even when things get awkward it may be tactically unadvisable to deploy wild vote switches for the sake of quickly resolving the danger. In such a case, this sort of skittishness is likely one of the major factors in allowing the distribution to later out individual and grouped scum. So if the Mafia were more circumspect in anticipation of the scenario, the exact process toward the 6-way tie could be more useful to investigate.
For example, as novice is going about, EOD1 saw Csargo and Barto switching onto Jowy (solidly voted by Pizza), then Champ onto Jowy, then DP self-pres from Csargo onto Jowy at Pizza's pressure, then Csargo went back to voting DP and was joined there by Manasi, closing the phase.
One way to see it is that Csargo was being reckless with his towny convictions, another is that this was indeed part of a final push to rescue mafia Csargo. We need to do the rest of the day from after the first stage of DP pressure. It's needed overall and it may help illuminate the events of EOD.
Crimson is very much pushing a wifom read of himself. I don't know why he would do that. His first page and a half of ISO seems oddly self centered, advocating a cop check of himself and teasing about hoping he's not the GF etc. There's a lot of "Read me like this" "Don't read me like this" which to me is strange as any alignment, but for him to keep the focus so very much on himself as scum is probably not a thing that happens. Then again it's very scummy to be very self aware, so ugh.
Said he'd be back before EOD, didn't post again until middle of the Night phase.
I'm at null here very much.
If you want a read, here's one: CSnow is the towniest player in the field so far, but he's not pure, so you can't trust it.
Night chat makes for boring days it seems.
I have no idea what Monty is putting forth with that post. The end as well, so cryptic.
Cuth can you bring up examples of what you're talking about? ATPG misrepresenting people/cases, because I don't recall any posts that I would describe that way.
I also don't understand Monty's last post, although I don't think that that tells us anything about his alignment. Sooh's ISO posts feel pretty NAI, which kind of worries me because I feel I should get at least some kind of a town lean on them as a result of so much work. I dunno, feeling pretty uncertain. As much as no kill is nice, having half as many flips as in a normal game by this stage makes things harder.
Cuthillius
06-24-2017, 19:32
Night chat makes for boring days it seems.
I have no idea what Monty is putting forth with that post. The end as well, so cryptic.
Cuth can you bring up examples of what you're talking about? ATPG misrepresenting people/cases, because I don't recall any posts that I would describe that way.
will do so later
I'm waiting for Sooh's last three iso's because those are the most interesting. :smug:
I'm tempted to vote Monty, because he's just been odd this game. Not sure though.
I should probably start isoing people, but like Cuth I'll do it later.
I'm waiting for Sooh's last three iso's because those are the most interesting. :smug:
I'm tempted to vote Monty, because he's just been odd this game. Not sure though.
I should probably start isoing people, but like Cuth I'll do it later.
Already told you I don't wanna do them :P
I'll see how I feel after dinner though.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 20:05
I'm waiting for Sooh's last three iso's because those are the most interesting. :smug:
I'm tempted to vote Monty, because he's just been odd this game. Not sure though.
I should probably start isoing people, but like Cuth I'll do it later.
How's that?
If you want a read, here's one: CSnow is the towniest player in the field so far, but he's not pure, so you can't trust it.
I do want a read, but this isn't a read. It's very odd, that's what it is.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 20:18
I do want a read, but this isn't a read. It's very odd, that's what it is.
Is it the contrast between "town" and "pure"?
Already told you I don't wanna do them :P
I'll see how I feel after dinner though.
https://media2.giphy.com/media/xUA7b9xWeTfN4EM8vu/giphy.gif
Holy moly Cuth, that post.
Regarding my lame defense of Jowy, I wasn't paying enough attention to see he was actually on the table for a lynch. Y'all know I'm a very jokey person in game and I thought the peek claim, however horrible misplaced and obviously fake, was a funny thing to ride out.
Mostly a joke between friends I suppose, nothing alignment indicative. I get why people are reading into that tho.
lolmafia
Sooh's iso results just seem like a lot of recap.
Where she does give reads/leans, they seem like.. hesitant, almost?
How's that?
You're low effort, low WiM, etc. Seems fairly unusual for you.
wtf did Monty defend me lmfao
hi csargo
wtf did Monty defend me lmfao
hi csargo
Hi!
Is it the contrast between "town" and "pure"?
He's the towniest, for idk raisins, but he's not pure for idk raisins, so it's not really telling me anything, no.
Sooh's iso results just seem like a lot of recap.
Where she does give reads/leans, they seem like.. hesitant, almost?
Yes, because town me is always sure of her reads.
I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 21:04
You're low effort, low WiM, etc. Seems fairly unusual for you.
For real? I'm just taking up Pizza's offer to work with him on finding scum.
wtf did Monty defend me lmfao
hi csargo
I did?
He's the towniest, for idk raisins, but he's not pure for idk raisins, so it's not really telling me anything, no.
You want reasons? Tough luck. Only Pizza gets reasons.
You want reasons? Tough luck. Only Pizza gets reasons.
Why?
I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.
https://i.imgur.com/tZjnH0l.gif
Vote: Sooh
just gonna keep this here from yesterday
For real? I'm just taking up Pizza's offer to work with him on finding scum.
you are doing me a concern
Csargo - Jokey start, basically all gifs for a long time. Finds DP scummy because he doesn't like spam apparently? Seems dismissive (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053751820&viewfull=1#post2053751820) in terms of DP talking to him. I don't think being dismissive of even your scum leans is a towny trait at that stage of the game.
I genuinely think Dp is scum, so I make no apologies for pushing/voting him. If I'm wrong, then so be it, but I don't think I am. I also hate the theories pushed by C_S/novice just fyi. This is D1, and the pressure Dp has been under is moderate, but not terribly severe I don't think. Not enough to make a townie post poorly imo, so those arguments make me sad.
Dislike the notion that all townies are always the same and react the same way under pressure.
In general I dislike Csargo's tone this game. It seems gleeful and condescending, not helped by the office gifs that are strewn throughout his posts.
Don't like Sooh's iso. Questions are questionable, not much there if I'm honest..What does "Questions are questionable" mean?
Tone marginally better at the start of D2. I don't get the condescending, so that's an improvement.
I don't remember who said it (DP??), but I kind of agree with the statement that I don't think Csargo is having this much fun as scum unless he's scum with ATPG. With that caveat, mildest of town leans.
DP101 - Down to bizniz start. Annoyed with the amount of spam. Can relate.
Can I get a link to what this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053751822&viewfull=1#post2053751822)refers to?
Defensive start, though also getting a lot of pressure.
I like this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053751918&viewfull=1#post2053751918) with some leans.
I also like the setup speculation. Especially at that point in the game.
Despite many posts I didn't get a lot out of DP's ISO. Neutral read so far.
ATPG - I have already talked a bit about Pizza and don't really have anything to add except I want to see how D2 goes.
The problem is Sooh's "Oh nice guys when you push scum on me I wanna try soooo haaarddd" sarcasm/AtE/plea is not something I see coming from a villager.
Or at least, I don't do it as a villager and I'm bad so it must be a horrible play lol.
Fun.
Sooh's iso results just seem like a lot of recap.
Where she does give reads/leans, they seem like.. hesitant, almost?
Vote: Sooh
just gonna keep this here from yesterday
Glad to see that it didn't matter either way what I did today.
Glad to see that it didn't matter either way what I did today.
lol
Csargo's iso is the only one that actually like, yielded something that wasn't just a "oh maybe this one is town"
lol
Csargo's iso is the only one that actually like, yielded something that wasn't just a "oh maybe this one is town"
You missed the questions I had in some of them then. Or is it better when it's not just a link but an actual quote? What is it you want exactly?
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 21:52
you are doing me a concern
Concern trolling, is it?
Monty, why are you not talking to me? I asked why only Pizza gets reasons. Alternatively you can respond to my original question. The dismissive "tough luck" is NAGL.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 22:02
No. I do what I want.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 22:11
Forgive them Pizza, for they know not what they do.
Forgive them Pizza, for they know not what they do.
Why are you talking to him?
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 22:19
Why are you talking to him?
He is always with us.
He is always with us.
https://m.popkey.co/cf702f/9eNjo_s-200x150.gif
Csargo - Jokey start, basically all gifs for a long time. Finds DP scummy because he doesn't like spam apparently? Seems dismissive (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053751820&viewfull=1#post2053751820) in terms of DP talking to him. I don't think being dismissive of even your scum leans is a towny trait at that stage of the game.
Yeah, that's me. He was scummy because he made an excuse, then followed up with posts that I didn't like the tone or content of. Yeah, I was spamming and maybe a few others(?), but coming into the thread like that is scummy. I don't think the entire day up until that point was devoid of content, so coming in like that is something that pings me as scummy. It just comes off as bad imo.
I couldn't answer the question, still can't tbh. Maybe I do if I feel strongly enough, but I've never really thought about it. So I made a jokey post, not to be dismissive, but because I couldn't answer.
Dislike the notion that all townies are always the same and react the same way under pressure.
I already talked about this in regards to Dp101. Don't think that he was under enough pressure for him to falter. He did perfectly fine later, so I didn't like the arguments. Using a general term was my mistake, noted.
In general I dislike Csargo's tone this game. It seems gleeful and condescending, not helped by the office gifs that are strewn throughout his posts.
There's a method to my madness, I promise Sooh. If I tell you though, you'll steal my secrets, and I can't have that. You don't like my office gifs? That makes me sad. Real sad.
What does "Questions are questionable" mean?
They did lead anywhere, seemed fluffy and not attempting to solve. That's just a sad boys opinion though.
Tone marginally better at the start of D2. I don't get the condescending, so that's an improvement.
My tones been great this entire game, no idea what you're talking about :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :stupid:
I don't remember who said it (DP??), but I kind of agree with the statement that I don't think Csargo is having this much fun as scum unless he's scum with ATPG. With that caveat, mildest of town leans.
Fun? I couldn't even get the guy who I thought was scum lynched, and subsequently almost got lynched myself! I blame ATPG tbh...
https://m.popkey.co/cf702f/9eNjo_s-200x150.gif
Well well well, what do we have here? A change of heart?
He's just a boy who wants to get lynched.
Unvote:
Also, Sooh have me as slight town, and Dp101 as neutral makes no sense from what she posted. Feel like it should be the other way around from that analysis. At least to me anyway.
I don't get what anyone really thinks this game, because apparently it has to be rolled in sarcasm and dipped in irony before posted.
Also, Sooh having me as slight town, and Dp101 as neutral makes no sense from what she posted. Feel like it should be the other way around from that analysis. At least to me anyway.
I hate myself.
Yeah, that's me. He was scummy because he made an excuse, then followed up with posts that I didn't like the tone or content of. Yeah, I was spamming and maybe a few others(?), but coming into the thread like that is scummy. I don't think the entire day up until that point was devoid of content, so coming in like that is something that pings me as scummy. It just comes off as bad imo.
I couldn't answer the question, still can't tbh. Maybe I do if I feel strongly enough, but I've never really thought about it. So I made a jokey post, not to be dismissive, but because I couldn't answer.
I already talked about this in regards to Dp101. Don't think that he was under enough pressure for him to falter. He did perfectly fine later, so I didn't like the arguments. Using a general term was my mistake, noted.
There's a method to my madness, I promise Sooh. If I tell you though, you'll steal my secrets, and I can't have that. You don't like my office gifs? That makes me sad. Real sad.
They didn't lead anywhere, seemed fluffy and not attempting to solve. That's just a sad boys opinion though.
My tones been great this entire game, no idea what you're talking about :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: :stupid:
Fun? I couldn't even get the guy who I thought was scum lynched, and subsequently almost got lynched myself! I blame ATPG tbh...
I make a lot of mistakes...
Also, Sooh have me as slight town, and Dp101 as neutral makes no sense from what she posted. Feel like it should be the other way around from that analysis. At least to me anyway.
You post daring posts, not worried at all about backlash. DP101 has a more neutral, less bold game. It may not make sense to you, but it makes sense to me.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 22:46
You post daring posts, not worried at all about backlash. DP101 has a more neutral, less bold game. It may not make sense to you, but it makes sense to me.
In itself, I would call that better looking for DP than Csargo. But I don't like DP this game.
In itself, I would call that better looking for DP than Csargo. But I don't like DP this game.
Playing it safe is a good look on a townie?
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 22:48
Playing it safe is a good look on a townie?
Neutral, less bold is a default DP characteristic, while Csargo seems to tend for superficially-bold scum (when not straight lurking?).
Neutral, less bold is a default DP characteristic, while Csargo seems to tend for superficially-bold scum (when not straight lurking?).
Well, I haven't called DP scum, but I find it hard to call him townie on neutral posts. With Csargo I just don't know. I choose to lean town for now, and then we'll see.
In itself, I would call that better looking for DP than Csargo. But I don't like DP this game.
??? You townread me earlier, is there some post that shows your shifting of opinion?
Wow, rude. I'm not superficial, so cruel.
Wow, rude. I'm not superficial, so cruel.
This post is exactly what I would call superficial, though.
This post is exactly what I would call superficial, though.
I already know you hate me, it's well established itt.
Regarding my lame defense of Jowy, I wasn't paying enough attention to see he was actually on the table for a lynch.
Wait, what? You seemed very present and attentive at end of day. Here are some sample posts:
I was moderately ready to vote Jowy before this, Pizza's opinion on him not notwithstanding, but this just makes the wagon look even more scummy to me.
Why are you scum reading champ?
This is my emotional state over the past 3 hours:
1) I do not want to be wrong especially on a new player, especially how hard I was pushing him.
2) Cannot sleep due to that stress.
3) The counterwagon is Csargo.
4) There's just no way that Csargo town should ever be lynched before Jowy town, so even if Jowy is townie, this is a much better lynch.
5) Jowy still looks really scummy. Not even backing off of that a little.
Jowy peeked me he can't be scum.
After a lot of collective hand-wringing regarding Jowy, you repeat your lame defense of him. Surely you knew he was up for a lynch?
I already know you hate me, it's well established itt.
I don't, that much, the constant gif-posting just feels scummy to me.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 22:58
??? You townread me earlier, is there some post that shows your shifting of opinion?
lol dude that was the beginning of D1, your first few posts.
lol dude that was the beginning of D1, your first few posts.
Ok, but what changed in my play, from your perspective, since then?
Winston Hughes
06-24-2017, 23:13
I'm back and caught up, with a bottle of cognac at hand and a free pass for the morning from my good lady wife.
First take is that pizza is breaking new ground, whatever his alignment. Extreme lucidity, convincing progression, agenda either super-obvious or exceptionally well disguised. The Jowy lynch was terrible in a way that speaks of either genuine misread or remarkably brazen scumming. If this was D4, paranoia would be kicking in hard, but at this stage he looks really good, simply because I can't see why he'd play the early game this way as scum.
Second take is that my suspects from yesterday still look scummy. Neither Logic nor Manasi responded to my suspicions, and neither has broken out to give me that townie goodness I'm looking for.
Third take is that Cuth and Csargo have moved in opposite directions. I really like how Cuth has been posting. If he's faking that flow, then it's very well done. By contrast, Csargo has carried on with the same reactionary bit he started the game with, which is townie enough on the surface, but starts to look a bit weak and easy when there's more substance to engage with.
Winston Hughes
06-24-2017, 23:22
Dp101
Montmorency
What's your read on me right now?
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 23:23
Ok, but what changed in my play, from your perspective, since then?
No sense of the bigger picture. You have focused on putting out fires as they come, which while not exactly tunneling, suggests a specific agenda. You should be much more engaged with the analysis Pizza has been promulgating, for instance.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 23:24
Dp101
Montmorency
What's your read on me right now?
Fine?
Winston Hughes
06-24-2017, 23:27
Fine?
Why?
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 23:33
Why?
I don't have anything on you.
Reactions to Pizza's "why I'm town" opus in post 719-720:
Alright.
Theatrics may perhaps be excitement to play after not having done so for a while. Same with the excessive ISOing.
You can be town, but I reserve the right to tinfoil at any moment in time. I still feel eeeeehhhhh, but I'll let it go. Who knows, perhaps the scums think our thunderdome is exciting enough to let us both live to fight each other another day :P
Maybe Pizza is town after all, I dunno.
Yeah. It seems kind of like his annoyed "Now I'm being suspected for ridiculous reasons again" personality.
Pizza is town, and if you disagree I'll fite you all!
Nah, but really, pretty sure he's town.
I found it pretty convincng too.
I'm back and caught up, with a bottle of cognac at hand and a free pass for the morning from my good lady wife.
First take is that pizza is breaking new ground, whatever his alignment. Extreme lucidity, convincing progression, agenda either super-obvious or exceptionally well disguised. The Jowy lynch was terrible in a way that speaks of either genuine misread or remarkably brazen scumming. If this was D4, paranoia would be kicking in hard, but at this stage he looks really good, simply because I can't see why he'd play the early game this way as scum.
Second take is that my suspects from yesterday still look scummy. Neither Logic nor Manasi responded to my suspicions, and neither has broken out to give me that townie goodness I'm looking for.
Third take is that Cuth and Csargo have moved in opposite directions. I really like how Cuth has been posting. If he's faking that flow, then it's very well done. By contrast, Csargo has carried on with the same reactionary bit he started the game with, which is townie enough on the surface, but starts to look a bit weak and easy when there's more substance to engage with.
Good post.
In FrenchRev you were much more measured and cautious D1.
As for the next post, in visorSmallGame, while you were an early sub and it wasn't D1, through the late game (d3-4) you worked very hard to find townies. You made similarly elaborate cases on why so and so is probs town due to voting and process, while other so and so are probs partners because whatever - please work with me you townies, I know you are town because bla, if you think I'm scum then lynch me and we lose. And then you flipped all the reads and rhetoric, with equal reasoning and rhetoric and conviction. It was all part of playing the field to create the situation that you want. You are kind of similar to that late-game pizza so far.
I completely agree with this description also, which is probably what's feeding our paranoia. But there's a strategic difference between scumming like this on day one and in the late game. Early days you generally want to narrow your footprint as scum. (I guess I'm parroting Winston here but whatever.)
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 23:48
I completely agree with this description also, which is probably what's feeding our paranoia. But there's a strategic difference between scumming like this on day one and in the late game. Early days you generally want to narrow your footprint as scum. (I guess I'm parroting Winston here but whatever.)
Pehraps. But we don't need to be convinced that Pizza is town to cooperate with him.
Pehraps. But we don't need to be convinced that Pizza is town to cooperate with him.
There's a difference between cooperating with and appealing to, but sure.
Winston Hughes
06-24-2017, 23:52
Reading DP's iso, I struggle to see why he was a candidate D1.
Posts like these would represent a significant step up from what I've seen from him as scum:
I take that back, I don't think that scum Pizza is quite this arrogant.
Oh, I forgot about something critical. Vote: Csargo. It really looks like you are trying to powerwolf from my perspective, and while I may end up voting a townie who just wants to try hard, hit a scum, soar high, and then get shot down by scum, I feel like this kind of early aggressive pushing is more commonly seen from scum on this forum.
The second paragraph here feels very scummy to me, but I also can't explain why. I just can't come up with a single reason for scum to ever actually post it, in this situation, but the tone of it is horrible regardless.
That said, today's contribution has been very reactive. The set-up analysis is cute if scum, but everything else is very much within his scum range.
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 23:55
Posts like these would represent a significant step up from what I've seen from him as scum:
Are you comparing to Jabbz' game?
(To Csargo)
What I do not understand is why you wanted to draw my vote onto Dp101 earlier in the day but not the second time you were voting him. Maybe you didn't really want Dp101 to swing? My vote would have made it 3-3 and off to a random tiebreaker. 50% is not good odds for a scummioso!Csargo.
I must have missed what you're referring to, El Barto. When/how did Csargo not want to draw your vote? How does one even do that? Did he say "people, let's vote Dp - but not you, El Barto."?
Montmorency
06-24-2017, 23:57
(To Csargo)
I must have missed what you're referring to, El Barto. When/how did Csargo not want to draw your vote? How does one even do that? Did he say "people, let's vote Dp - but not you, El Barto."?
I was also confused about this. I think it refers to EOD, when Csargo and Barto suddenly switched onto Jowy from DP, but when Csargo went back on DP, Barto didn't follow.
Right?
Reading DP's iso, I struggle to see why he was a candidate D1.
Posts like these would represent a significant step up from what I've seen from him as scum.
Did you see him in this year's championship game?
Winston Hughes
06-24-2017, 23:59
Are you comparing to Jabbz' game?
That and at least a couple of others.
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 00:02
There's something immediate and unfiltered about the emotional reaponse.
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 00:03
Did you see him in this year's championship game?
Aye.
Montmorency
06-25-2017, 00:03
That and at least a couple of others.
DP wasn't threatened for most of the day that game, and he didn't go on an offensive D1 here like he did there (other than some OMGUS toward Csargo) - but hasn't his focus been similarly narrow? What do you get if you consider French Revolution in comparison?
(To Csargo)
I must have missed what you're referring to, El Barto. When/how did Csargo not want to draw your vote? How does one even do that? Did he say "people, let's vote Dp - but not you, El Barto."?
I think it has more to do with when he DID try to draw Barto's vote.
El Barto
06-25-2017, 00:09
Since I only have a few minutes remaining before night ends and flips happen, I want to get this out there as briefly as possible.
"Defensive" refers to Fredwood's entire day one iso, and in more than one sense. He's much more wordy when any kind of suspicion rolled his way, and he seemed to pop up right when I was mentioning him, which is a bad coincidence. Felt to me honestly like wolfy lurking and then responding to something that interested him, which was himself. Not clearing townies, not finding scums or pushing them.
Look at the first x number of posts he made in the game, none of them having anything to do with solving. And the timestamps involved.
Very few posts of content, then responds to me suspecting him, and then dips out for the rest of the phase.
That's what I am looking at. Defensive, self-concerned scum play. Not solving.
Hmm-mmm.
Maybe? Your little spat with Barto earlier looks weird, but I can't tell if it's scummy or not.
Please use the pronoun ‘he’ to refer to me.
So don't make wall posts cus none of you moths read them, because I've cleared like 4 people already, and have said I'd like to clear a few more but have concerns.
I doubt I'll be scum hunting this phase cus you guys are meanies and the last time I scum hunted I was treated like the lady at the Supermarket that starts yelling about the potatoes not being arranged properly.
BRB going to therapist.
"Anybody know a good therapist?"
You justify your lack of scum-hunting for this phase in advance. You hope that it will clear you retroactively for Day One.
vote: Fredwood
So had a mod moment. Could the lack of the NK be kind of representative of the XCom game. So much of the game is about setting up the ambush and getting the positioning just right. Maybe they couldn't kill N1, and will have multiple kills on other nights. That's more of a "this would be cool" workshop type thing then really a helpful thing, but it was a thought.
If you really want to go for that discussion, then it is pertinent to point out
I don't get what anyone really thinks this game, because apparently it has to be rolled in sarcasm and dipped in irony before posted.
Remember to serve it sautéed lightly with crushed garlic, two minced onions and a diced bell pepper. Sprinkle with rock salt a piacere.
(To Csargo)
I must have missed what you're referring to, El Barto. When/how did Csargo not want to draw your vote? How does one even do that? Did he say "people, let's vote Dp - but not you, El Barto."?I was also confused about this. I think it refers to EOD, when Csargo and Barto suddenly switched onto Jowy from DP, but when Csargo went back on DP, Barto didn't follow.
Right?I must reply in the affirmative to this.
Alright, I'll be serious.
El Barto
06-25-2017, 00:12
So, some reads cobbled together on gedit:
Manasi is posting too much fluff. See post #858!
Holy moly Cuth, that post.
Regarding my lame defense of Jowy, I wasn't paying enough attention to see he was actually on the table for a lynch. Y'all know I'm a very jokey person in game and I thought the peek claim, however horrible misplaced and obviously fake, was a funny thing to ride out.
Mostly a joke between friends I suppose, nothing alignment indicative. I get why people are reading into that tho.
lolmafia
:stare:
Fredwood: states he won't co-operate. I'm voting him
Champ: What a nasty vote at the end of the phase. Does Csargo benefit from that? 1 out of 2 votes on Csargo was was Jowy, the only proven townie™.
Crimson_snow: I do not think I have ever played with him before.
Sooh and her farinaceous boyfriend are trying to solve.
Autolycus - standard operating procedure for him.
Of Winston and Cuthillius I would like to see more. The former, preferably sober.
Monty - ???? - null read.
I find this line at the bottom of my text file:
Csargo-Manasi-Champ for trio of mafiosi?
Disagree about Manasi, she's played very similar to the last game I feel, until maybe EoD.
Really? Manasi seems much more focused this game. Last game you were both quite flighty and lolcatty, not just under pressure but overall. Manasi's activity is more grounded in the game course - isn't yours as well?
Besides which, Manasi was scum last game.
That reads like a made up read from Csargo.
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 00:15
DP wasn't threatened for most of the day that game, and he didn't go on an offensive D1 here like he did there (other than some OMGUS toward Csargo) - but hasn't his focus been similarly narrow? What do you get if you consider French Revolution in comparison?
I'm not judging him by actions or positioning. Frankly, I'd be disappointed with him if he got himself caught off that shit.
What I'm looking at is his tone: the choice of words to represent his emotional state. That stuff is hard to fake, and while I have a lot of respect for his game, I feel like the posts I quoted represent a higher level than he's shown before.
Montmorency
06-25-2017, 00:19
I'm not judging him by actions or positioning. Frankly, I'd be disappointed with him if he got himself caught off that shit.
But - isn't that how much of the game goes? I have to say I'm thrown.
ION, Barto more suspicious than before with a mealy reads post.
Dp101
Montmorency
What's your read on me right now?
I think you are town.
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 00:24
But - isn't that how much of the game goes? I have to say I'm thrown. .
Further into the game, for sure.
In the early stages that ought to be scum101. ~;)
That said, today's contribution has been very reactive.
I've been busy having a social life for a change.
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 00:25
I've been busy having a social life for a change.
Good luck with that.
I've been busy having a social life for a change.
What does that mean? I'm confused.
What does that mean? I'm confused.
I haven't been spending as much time on the game to make large cases/readslists and things of that nature, and have only had time to do the small reactive posts.
El Barto
06-25-2017, 00:31
ION, Barto more suspicious than before with a mealy reads post.
Could you please clarify?
I haven't been spending as much time on the game to make large cases/readslists and things of that nature, and have only had time to do the small reactive posts.
A-ha… is this related to your learning Japanese?
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 00:32
I think you are town.
Why?
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 00:34
Good post.
Why?
Why?
It's meaty, not just copying what other people are doing, and overall shows a town mindset towards solving.
I haven't been spending as much time on the game to make large cases/readslists and things of that nature, and have only had time to do the small reactive posts.
lol I was more making a joke on somebody actually having a social life for the lack of my own.
<3
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 00:38
It's meaty, not just copying what other people are doing, and overall shows a town mindset towards solving.
You don't see anything scummy about how I played this so far?
El Barto
06-25-2017, 00:43
You don't see anything scummy about how I played this so far?
Are we meant to? This post reeks of wine being in front of you.
You don't see anything scummy about how I played this so far?
No, I really don't, and I don't see why you are asking this question.
lol I was more making a joke on somebody actually having a social life for the lack of my own.
<3
Oh trust me, this isn't all amazing, I have the worst sunburn right now.
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 00:49
No, I really don't, and I don't see why you are asking this question.
Drunk reads ftw.
You don't see anything scummy about how I played this so far?
My response to this post would be:
"Why?"
El Barto
06-25-2017, 00:51
Drunk reads ftw.
So you've been drinking cognac since the morning? What does Mrs. Winston say?
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 00:54
So you've been drinking cognac since the morning? What does Mrs. Winston say?
I took the bullet of a three-hour child's birthday party today, so I'm sitting pretty right now.
Besides which, Manasi was scum last game.
That reads like a made up read from Csargo.
Thanks. I can't dispute that.
I appealed to Barto initially because he had posted recently, and that's about it. I'm not sure why he's so focused on me not asking him at the end of the day. If he wanted to vote Dp he would have, not sure what the problem is here.
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 01:13
What was I talking about?
What was I talking about?
cognac
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 01:14
cognac
Good idea.
El Barto
06-25-2017, 01:19
I took the bullet of a three-hour child's birthday party today, so I'm sitting pretty right now.
Three hours? My condolences.
Thanks. I can't dispute that.
I appealed to Barto initially because he had posted recently, and that's about it. I'm not sure why he's so focused on me not asking him at the end of the day. If he wanted to vote Dp he would have, not sure what the problem is here.
Well, I even pointed out that I found myself voting the same way as you and Askthepizzaguy, but you seemed to ignore that.
El Barto
06-25-2017, 01:19
Good idea.
CIFOM?
BIFOM?
Winston Hughes
06-25-2017, 01:23
I'm regretting not eating that pizza now.
Three hours? My condolences.
Well, I even pointed out that I found myself voting the same way as you and Askthepizzaguy, but you seemed to ignore that.
I mean if you actually wanted to lynch Dp101 you would have moved your vote. I made it pretty clear throughout D1 what I wanted, and when it became unlikely I sheeped ATPG, because I think he's town. Then I moved back because Manasi voted Dp. I dunno what to say honestly, generally I don't think, and just react. I just figured you were happy with lynching Jowy.
autolycus:
Multicultural? We are a multi-species community, not merely a multicultural community. You must be XCOM :P !
Vote:Novice
One post, nothing. autolycus usually posts a couple of times a phase I think, so this is a bit abnormal, but nothing more than a null read.
BSmith:
Random Gods tell me to vote: Sooh though I am tempted to vote for one of the no lynchers.
Yeah. Sorry about lurking today. I'm on vacation through this weekend so things are a little off. That and I am never that talkative let alone on D1 when there really isn't much solid to go on other than tone and meta analysis, which absent gross incompetence usually isn't indicative. Most of my time is just going to keeping up. But at least the noise ratio is lower this game than other recent D1s. Don't expect much from me the next couple of days.
Pretty standard for BSmith, yet again nothing much to go on here either. More null.
Logic:
Vote: Winston Hughes
I know he's probably joking, but I gotta say I did what I could to check.
Seems harmless to me, jokey.
And if he isn't joking, he's scum because...?
Logic, when you have a minute free from GIF hunting, I have a question for you in post 82.
Yup, I totally missed the question. Sorry about that.
Scenario 1: He's joking, partially for my benefit (he was a miller in the only game I have ever narrated back in April.)
Scenario 2: He really is a miller, which could prove to be a distraction should the cop (or seer) choose to scan him.
Scenario 3: His "miller" claim is to cover for true scumminess.
I believe Scenario 1 is the most likely, but I'm not going to ignore a miller claim, so until given other reasonable reads, I'm putting a vote on a slightly-more than reasonable scum chance.
Seems odd, but not necessarily scummy, so D1 not a terrible reason to vote someone. Slightly reachy though.
Rough estimate?
92% fakeclaim
1% Miller
7% scum
(For reference, 6.25% is the individual chance anyone besides oneself is scum.)
Joke I'm assuming? I have no idea how to parse this at all.
And since I don't have any strong scum leans, I'm going to vote the Miller claimant. Every time.
Guess so, everyone's got their reasons.
Think 403 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152751-XCOM-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053752019&viewfull=1#post2053752019) is pretty good. Shows thought process/opinion on quite a few people. I like it, tones good as well. Disagree with the reads somewhat obv, but overall a good post.
Mobile posting: exoect errors.
Brief insight: if Dp101 is scum, I find it unlikely that novice is on his team. I saw at least one post by novice that looks like too convincing a case for Dp101 and novice to be on the same team.
And Cuthillius I don't think I've greatly improved over the 4 games I've played since the one on CFC. If I remember right, I was killed n1 that game.
Plus, you were around to see me royally mess up Pokemon, so I'd say I haven't been given enough time to show how bad I can be.
Of the lurkers, I'm most comfortable taking down Monty. Any takers?
Vote: Montmorency.
This post is meh. Vote on a lurker is a cop-out imo, even if Monty is somewhat suspect, don't particularly like using lurker as a reason. The rest is NAI to me, maybe not the Dp101/novice not partners, but I don't put much weight on that honestly.
I wouldn't call Logic overly scummy, but don't think he's obviously townie either. I struggle putting him in either camp at this point, probably a tiny bit on the scummier side of null, because I only really like the one post from him. I'm more concerned with ATPG(?) saying he almost had Logic as locktown last phase iirc, which I'm not seeing at all. I don't think he's anywhere near lock-town, so that's pretty odd.
Champ:
Outside of early D1, Champ has posted exactly like his town game here, pop in make a random remark/vote pop out. His early posts reminded me of the game on MU where he was a mason, which he posted a bunch D1. Same type of excitement I see here initially. Not gonna quote his posts because there's not much there. My gut says Champ's town, but there's not much content to support that assertion. Kinda hard to accurately read a guy like Champ. Few posts-little content.
More later. I am slow.
Hottake: El barto is cagey. He could be third party neutral wolfy non-townie or Barto-y, an alignment that only pertains to El Barto in every game he's ever been in.
Spicier take: I watched the first episode of the office, with Sooh. I chuckled once, she didn't laugh. Based off of that one episode alone, and no other, the Office sucks balls.
Too spicy for this crowd? :hide:
You should watch more than the first episode, the first seasons not particularly great, but it's only six episodes. Just saying.
@GeneralHankerchief has replaced Champ.
Do not discuss substitutions.
GeneralHankerchief
06-25-2017, 04:46
Hey guys.
Haven't read a thing, probably won't before tomorrow. Can I get a quick summary?
Fredwood
06-25-2017, 04:49
There goes Bart, misrepresenting and conveniently leaving out contradictory data again.
You're really bad at setting up mislynches huh? Literally said I was going to focus on townclearing and not try to scumhunt.
I can tell you one person who I haven't cleared.
I feel better about Sooh, at the very least there's effort in appearing townie which could be exploited. Manasi still is a bit null but I have a feeling she's the queen of null reads. There is the push on Sooh, but the pressure isn't aggressive or confrontational enough to eliminate the possibility of a W/W scenario and just setting up a contrarian IG relationship. So not willing to extrapolate a read on the other based on one's flip.
Winston and Montgomery seem null but have context and content that's been generated, Winston seems to be more analytical of the meta but did self-clear Pizza and Cuth in a concise and specific manner, so giving him pluses.
The Monty interactions have been interesting this phase. Amusing at the very least.
I should have questions, the only ones I have are to someone I'm washing my hands of. So, I'm just kind of blankly staring at the screen currently.
Official Tally as of #964
----
Day 2 ends in: tunnel snakes rule
----
1 Askthepizzaguy (Cuthillius)
1 Fredwood (El Barto)
1 GeneralHankerchief (novice)
1 Montmorency (Sooh)
1 Sooh (Manasi)
----
Not Voting: Askthepizzaguy, Csargo, Dp101, Fredwood, GeneralHankerchief, Montmorency, Winston Hughes
Not Posting: autolycus, BSmith, crimson_snow, Logic
----
If you notice anything wrong, PM me.
Fredwood:
Fredwood is sort of hard for me to read. I don't particularly like this post:
Oh, I do love Eddie Izzard.
I hope you have noticed that I am voting for you to be hanged from the neck until you die.
Cake please.
Seems like a you problem not a me problem. I guess I could beg but if I get lynched day 1 in my first game, then I get lynched day 1 in my first game. The Random gods must be sated.
I think the tone's off in response to Barto. Honestly, don't think much of the back and forth between both of them wasn't very good. Neither looked good from that argument imo.
The problem is I really liked Fredwood's interactions with ATPG from the tone and points he made. Looks good from that interaction, and not the best from the Barto one.
I'd agree that he's been defensive/reactionary, but it's understandable given the situation, so I'm not really going to hold that against him. New forum might have him a bit on edge, so I'd just chalk it up to that for now.
Would like to more reads honestly before I make a final call on my lean. Fairly sparse in that department I feel, so that's something I'd really like to see from him today.
Vague thoughts really.
GeneralHankerchief
06-25-2017, 04:52
There goes Bart, misrepresenting and conveniently leaving out contradictory data again.
You're really bad at setting up mislynches huh? Literally said I was going to focus on townclearing and not try to scumhunt.
I can tell you one person who I haven't cleared.
I feel better about Sooh, at the very least there's effort in appearing townie which could be exploited. Manasi still is a bit null but I have a feeling she's the queen of null reads. There is the push on Sooh, but the pressure isn't aggressive or confrontational enough to eliminate the possibility of a W/W scenario and just setting up a contrarian IG relationship. So not willing to extrapolate a read on the other based on one's flip.
Winston and Montgomery seem null but have context and content that's been generated, Winston seems to be more analytical of the meta but did self-clear Pizza and Cuth in a concise and specific manner, so giving him pluses.
The Monty interactions have been interesting this phase. Amusing at the very least.
I should have questions, the only ones I have are to someone I'm washing my hands of. So, I'm just kind of blankly staring at the screen currently.
Without having read a single thing, all these reads appear to check out in terms of people acting in line with expectations.
Hey guys.
Haven't read a thing, probably won't before tomorrow. Can I get a quick summary?
GeneralHankerchief GH. Give me soul reads. Go!
Hey guys.
Haven't read a thing, probably won't before tomorrow. Can I get a quick summary?
I was pushed D1 by Csargo and Pizza, Pizza was also pushing Jowy who everyone thought was independently scummy and thus he died, and some people were defending me and voting Csargo. Those were the major wagons. If I got something wrong, someone please correct me.
I was pushed D1 by Csargo and Pizza, Pizza was also pushing Jowy who everyone thought was independently scummy and thus he died, and some people were defending me and voting Csargo. Those were the major wagons. If I got something wrong, someone please correct me.
I think that's pretty spot on.
GeneralHankerchief
06-25-2017, 04:55
I was pushed D1 by Csargo and Pizza, Pizza was also pushing Jowy who everyone thought was independently scummy and thus he died, and some people were defending me and voting Csargo. Those were the major wagons. If I got something wrong, someone please correct me.
Jowy flipped town I take it?
Who else died?
Jowy flipped town I take it?
Who else died?
Nobody.
GeneralHankerchief
06-25-2017, 04:57
Nobody.
No nightkill?
We get any leads from that?
Fredwood
06-25-2017, 04:58
Fredwood:
Fredwood is sort of hard for me to read. I don't particularly like this post:
I think the tone's off in response to Barto. Honestly, don't think much of the back and forth between both of them wasn't very good. Neither looked good from that argument imo.
The problem is I really liked Fredwood's interactions with ATPG from the tone and points he made. Looks good from that interaction, and not the best from the Barto one.
I'd agree that he's been defensive/reactionary, but it's understandable given the situation, so I'm not really going to hold that against him. New forum might have him a bit on edge, so I'd just chalk it up to that for now.
Would like to more reads honestly before I make a final call on my lean. Fairly sparse in that department I feel, so that's something I'd really like to see from him today.
Vague thoughts really.
You're literally quoting the reaction test to see Bart's response. I was purposefully exhibiting what I thought was scum behavior to try and read his response for something that felt off to me. There was none, not even a mention and later switched. The reaction, or the lack of one, is the basis for my scum read on him, within the thread the progression should be obvious.
You're literally quoting the reaction test to see Bart's response. I was purposefully exhibiting what I thought was scum behavior to try and read his response for something that felt off to me. There was none, not even a mention and later switched. The reaction, or the lack of one, is the basis for my scum read on him, within the thread the progression should be obvious.
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks.
No nightkill?
We get any leads from that?
Monty thinks scum holstered.
Fredwood
06-25-2017, 05:01
No nightkill?
We get any leads from that?
None...I have a tinfoil mod brain theory about trying to incorporate flavor into the game, and think N1 was a ambush set up phase. I'm hoping i'm wrong but it would mean multiple kills in a single night phase.
Montmorency
06-25-2017, 05:02
Jowy flipped town I take it?
Who else died?
That's a very strange thing to ask.
GeneralHankerchief
06-25-2017, 05:02
That's a very strange thing to ask.
Hey Monty, nice to see you again too.
Montmorency
06-25-2017, 05:02
Monty thinks scum holstered.
Lol no
Monty thinks scum holstered.
I thought that was a joke?
Montmorency
06-25-2017, 05:03
Hey Monty, nice to see you again too.
I assume you would have read the first page host posts.
You asking that sounds like a handshake re: why no one died.
I thought that was a joke?
It was in all caps, I thought it was really serious. /s
GeneralHankerchief
06-25-2017, 05:04
I assume you would have read the first page host posts.
You asking that sounds like a handshake re: why no one died.
I said I haven't read a thing in the first post I made after subbing in. I meant what I said.
But congrats, you get my first townread of the game.
Montmorency
06-25-2017, 05:07
I said I haven't read a thing in the first post I made after subbing in. I meant what I said.
But congrats, you get my first townread of the game.
GH hasn't read the rules of the game!
https://i.imgur.com/389VbEl.gif
GeneralHankerchief
06-25-2017, 05:12
I think that's my cue to head out for the night.
Looking forward to chatting with everybody and figuring out just what I've got myself into tomorrow. :yes:
I said I haven't read a thing in the first post I made after subbing in. I meant what I said.
But congrats, you get my first townread of the game.
Congrats, you played yourself. 1st townread for Monty all game. That's not a good start.
Montmorency
06-25-2017, 05:24
1st townread for Monty all game.
False.
False.
You can't count yourself.
Who else townread you?
Montmorency
06-25-2017, 05:46
You can't count yourself.
Who else townread you?
Manasi, and probably Pizza.
crimson_snow
06-25-2017, 05:56
Got home, probably going to crash. I'll be around tomorrow.
Are there generally anti-claim mechanics on this site, or is it safe to full claim? Obviously while respecting the game rules.
Wait, what? You seemed very present and attentive at end of day. Here are some sample posts:
After a lot of collective hand-wringing regarding Jowy, you repeat your lame defense of him. Surely you knew he was up for a lynch?
Moreso I didn't really know he was like a viable lynch candidate.
I didn't know he had that many votes and it wasn't like, just a scum read as opposed to a "let's lynch this guy today," because those are two different things.
Got home, probably going to crash. I'll be around tomorrow.
Are there generally anti-claim mechanics on this site, or is it safe to full claim? Obviously while respecting the game rules.
Should be safe.
Moreso I didn't really know he was like a viable lynch candidate.
I didn't know he had that many votes and it wasn't like, just a scum read as opposed to a "let's lynch this guy today," because those are two different things.
What flip did you think Pizza was waiting up for then?
I said I haven't read a thing in the first post I made after subbing in. I meant what I said.
Seems true, and earned a town read from me, because as scum I would read the quicktopic before doing anything else.
Of course now that I think about it, not reading the QT seems like an excellent idea.
Thanks. I can't dispute that.
You made up a read?
El Barto, I still haven't seen you explain this: Why did you specifically call Fredwood's attention to your vote on him, but then not follow up his (intentionally scummy, according to him) response afterwards? Instead you moved on to Dp without further comment.
Montmorency
06-25-2017, 08:50
Seems true, and earned a town read from me, because as scum I would read the quicktopic before doing anything else.
Of course now that I think about it, not reading the QT seems like an excellent idea.
It was pure WIFOM frowny face. Good night.
Vote: El Barto
Don't like him brushing off Fredwood, and if Dp is town his behaviour towards Dp on day one is bad also.
Askthepizzaguy
06-25-2017, 09:04
Manasi, and probably Pizza.
Woah there cowboy, I just said you're maybe not scum.
I didn't go as far as to call you town. I just said we shouldn't lynch you. Maybe not until all the scumbags have died even.
That's an older read, but I haven't had that much reason to change it.
You look very self-focused even for you, only superficially interested in the mafia v town struggle. I think your main concern is survival and not pissing off the mafia faction.
That's how I arrived at a neut read on you. It's also how El Barto pushed himself out of being a neutral read, because he did the opposite.
I rarely even have neutral reads, but the last two I had in games each found a serial killer, and I specifically called them not mafia but not town.
I'm risking the streak by calling you of all people a neut, based only off of one and a half days of a game.
https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder849/51578849.jpg
If that read turns out to be correct, I'm going to make my signature line "greatest newt hunter of all time".
I don't honestly have high hopes of that, but it's a tinfoil that I'm kind of rooting for. I'm gonna be sad if I have to reverse it.
But if you "get better" I'll swallow that read and tell everyone.
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