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GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 02:31
1 Montmorency (Pzelda,)
4 El Barto (Zack, Cuth, Csargo, Monty)
5 PZelda (Insaner, Dya, GH, Fable, ladd)
1 Newyn (Choxorn)
3 Ladd (Logic, Egix, merl1n)
1 Insaner (El Barto)
2 Choxorn (Empoof, Newyn)

Wonder if the game's just easy.

Barto ended up on Insaner, pretty late too. That was kind of weird considering the circumstances but Insaner's 99% town anyway so I'm not looking into it any further.

Here's pzelda's vote on Monty, early on in the phase:



I think this is a strong look for Monty, considering that he and Barto were the two main wagons early on in the phase. Pzelda's townreads are also worth noting. Insaner is town, Poof is flipped town, Egix and Merl1n are there and unflipped. I feel like there has to be one partner in there. I know that I wasn't a big fan of Merl1n yesterday relative to the thread but haven't really looked at his posts yet in-depth.

2. Csargo
4. Choxorn
5. Zack
11. ladd
12. Cuthillius
13. Egix
14. Newyn
17. merl1n

Scum probably in here. Let's get this list pared down even more.

Vote: Egix

I should have removed Zack from the above.

2. Csargo
4. Choxorn
11. ladd
12. Cuthillius
13. Egix
14. Newyn
17. merl1n

Where I'm actually at.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 02:31
barto cares so little about surviving and it's actually starting to seem kinda wolfy

this looks pretty good tho. he couldn't know that el barto would die at night, so hed be voting 1 partner and shading the other

merl1n
12-08-2019, 02:36
something i thought about overnight when looking at who was in the game was that i think no one mentioned csargo at all yesterday, despite him barely posting. other ppl who didn't post much got scrutiny/votes, but he got none. meaningful? idk

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 02:41
Tonal meme read: Zelda saying "thrice" instead of "three times" is towny

This is a really rough post.

ladd
12-08-2019, 02:42
:rolleyes:

gg poof

gj vig

Csargo
12-08-2019, 02:43
1 Montmorency (Pzelda,)
4 El Barto (Zack, Cuth, Csargo, Monty)
5 PZelda (Insaner, Dya, GH, Fable, ladd)
1 Newyn (Choxorn)
3 Ladd (Logic, Egix, merl1n)
1 Insaner (El Barto)
2 Choxorn (Empoof, Newyn)

Wonder if the game's just easy.

Barto ended up on Insaner, pretty late too. That was kind of weird considering the circumstances but Insaner's 99% town anyway so I'm not looking into it any further.

Here's pzelda's vote on Monty, early on in the phase:



I think this is a strong look for Monty, considering that he and Barto were the two main wagons early on in the phase. Pzelda's townreads are also worth noting. Insaner is town, Poof is flipped town, Egix and Merl1n are there and unflipped. I feel like there has to be one partner in there. I know that I wasn't a big fan of Merl1n yesterday relative to the thread but haven't really looked at his posts yet in-depth.

2. Csargo
4. Choxorn
5. Zack
11. ladd
12. Cuthillius
13. Egix
14. Newyn
17. merl1n

Scum probably in here. Let's get this list pared down even more.

Vote: Egix

Don't feel like that's a great reason to remove Monty from the list, if you want to be thorough.

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 02:47
Yes, in both MU Anni and Throne game

In the former of those, he was on my scum team so I didn't have to read him ;), but I do think he played very well. He was one of the team captains, I guess you could say.

And in Throne, he was the Mad King (leader of one of the evil factions), I was a neutral, and I TRed him for most of the game.

So that considered, if he's scum this game, he's probably not taking it as seriously cos this isn't a mash game? Or cos he's just a goon?? Idk really.


I'm kinda internally debating with myself whether lynching you d1 is a good move or not

As for Mont, I can't really interact with him further until he comes back, which I don't think he has done yet

Couple more Egix posts I found noteworthy. First quote has him responding to Zack, second is to ladd.

On its own, I'm 99% sure I want Egix dead today and will probably not be moving my vote from him at all day. Similar to what I picked out about pzelda being scummy for. Lots of backchatter about old games, little actual solving. On principle I think his pushing of Monty is also a bad sign and a good sign for Monty, but that's almost certainly me leaping too far ahead and looking into associative reads assuming Egix is already a dead mafioso.

---

In terms of why I like Monty for town, I just find it pretty hard to picture that the leading wagons for the first half of the day were both for mafia. Like, they had to push some townie to start off, you know?

ladd
12-08-2019, 02:48
monty is a villager imo

perfectly fine clearing him, just look at the people voting him mid day+afaik pzelda isnt a busser

merl1n
12-08-2019, 02:50
choxorn and egix look the worst to me so far

ladd
12-08-2019, 02:51
Hold ladd to possible m/m for zelda-bart if one flips scum.



I know I've passed on most MU stuff. Walk me through how, as it sounds to me, GH became the next Pizza on your meta.





Cool.



Tie Barto and Zelda.

yea

merl1n
12-08-2019, 02:52
didn't someone make a post about how pzelda is a wolf if barto is a wolf, but not necessarily if barto is town? or something? maybe i'm mixing ppl up

ladd
12-08-2019, 02:53
didn't someone make a post about how pzelda is a wolf if barto is a wolf, but not necessarily if barto is town? or something? maybe i'm mixing ppl up

yeah that was me

yw

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 02:53
yea

Word of warning: Monty's a busser, so I think solving him in terms of how other people treat him is going to be more useful here. I still think he's town though.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 02:55
yeah that was me

yw

okay

maybe you're just good here then, sorry about pushing on you d1! at least i didn't manage to get people to listen to me, which feels kind of interesting given both of the top voted ppl were bad. what were the others doing??

Csargo
12-08-2019, 02:56
Word of warning: Monty's a busser, so I think solving him in terms of how other people treat him is going to be more useful here. I still think he's town though.

I'd tend to agree, but it might just me being overly cautious.

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 02:57
okay

maybe you're just good here then, sorry about pushing on you d1! at least i didn't manage to get people to listen to me, which feels kind of interesting given both of the top voted ppl were bad. what were the others doing??

I think we might just have an easy game, especially if Egix is one of the last remaining scum.

Reread Choxorn's iso, still too early to tell for me. I'd like to see him more involved today.

ladd
12-08-2019, 02:58
Word of warning: Monty's a busser, so I think solving him in terms of how other people treat him is going to be more useful here. I still think he's town though.

I still fon't think he is a wolf fue to the other side of interactions anyway, but noted

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 02:58
I'd tend to agree, but it might just me being overly cautious.

Csar, what are you thinking right now? Can you give me an overview of your headspace?

merl1n
12-08-2019, 03:00
early game insaner/el barto interactions are kinda weird, but insaner threatened to kill himself if pzelda was good yesterday so that's probably not something

Csargo
12-08-2019, 03:18
Csar, what are you thinking right now? Can you give me an overview of your headspace?

Feel like Egix or Choxorn should be lynched today. Choxorn's hard to read in my experience, and I don't know anything about Egix. I read Choxorn's iso yesterday and wasn't impressed I guess you'd say and what you've posted of Egix doesn't look good.

I'm not sure what to make of ladd at this point. I want to give them some amount of credit for putting the damning vote on zelda, but looking at the vote count at the end makes that hard for me. I wouldn't vote them anytime soon though.

Felt like merl1n was good on my initial read through, and haven't really seen anything to change my mind so far other than being off the two main wagons yesterday.

Don't know anything about Newyn and nothing has stood out to me about them so far.

I'm 90% certain Logic is town. I'm pretty alright with saying you, Zack, and Insaner are town.

I feel like Cuth is playing different from what I remember about their play, so it's up in the air.

I have no read on Dya, other than zelda vote is good.

Montmorency (Pzelda,)
4 El Barto (Zack, Cuth, Csargo, Monty)
5 PZelda (Insaner, Dya, GH, Fable, ladd)
1 Newyn (Choxorn)
3 Ladd (Logic, Egix, merl1n)
1 Insaner (El Barto)
2 Choxorn (Empoof, Newyn)

Csargo
12-08-2019, 03:20
I think Monty is town, but I'm always wary of him. So there's that.

Montmorency
12-08-2019, 03:37
Cool. I was a bit worried about Poof there too, so that'll remove some tinfoil.

Will look into vote movements, etc tomorrow probably.

I'm lock town!

But without knowing the differences in powers between Barto and Zelda, it's hard to read the wagons. Is there 1 mafia, 1 3P remaining? 2 Mafia? 1 Mafia? Mechanically alone, with a distribution like this the remaining scum(s) could be anywhere, including on the scum wagons. Fable, for example, could certainly be scum if Zelda was less important for night actions than Bart.


people not voting pzelda or el barto at day end: choxorn, logic, egix, merl1n, newyn

i know im good and i think logic and newyn are good. that leaves choxorn and egix

I agree, but don't townread Newyn.


i still think it could be ladd, but i need to read with the information that el barto was bad and see what that changes. ladd and choxorn were options to vote but the top 2 vote getters were both bad. feels meaningful

Considering Bart's last vote, and the existence of a ladd wagon as a counterwagon to Bart at least, and merlin's quote of ladd on Bart's self-pres, and his consistent tone, I would actually say he's probably clear. Egix is a good place to start today, I told ya he was mean (and I heard he likes pillaging).


something i thought about overnight when looking at who was in the game was that i think no one mentioned csargo at all yesterday, despite him barely posting. other ppl who didn't post much got scrutiny/votes, but he got none. meaningful? idk

I'm going to err on the side of caution and say he's within town meta.


Don't feel like that's a great reason to remove Monty from the list, if you want to be thorough.

I did vote both Barto and Zelda (and Barto, that was for a reason).


yea

Is this what they call mindmeld?


Word of warning: Monty's a busser, so I think solving him in terms of how other people treat him is going to be more useful here. I still think he's town though.

To be precise, I only bus on occasions when I see no alternative (except for those few times when my partners wanted me to bus them early as a gambit.)

I suppose I'll compile one of those representations of vote history for D1 wagonomics. Tomorrow.


LEANS

:bow:
insaner
merlin

:whip:
Zack

:pray:
Ladd
GH
Logic

:shrug:
dyachei
Csargo
Cuth
Choxorn
Newyn
Fable

:drama1:
Egix

Montmorency
12-08-2019, 03:45
Also too, I think Zack shot Barto because that would be most narratively appropriate.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 03:46
confirmed/dead good:
empoof

very strong good:
zack
insaner

probably good:
ladd
general
montmorency

voted for bad(s), need to look at closer:
fable
dyachei
cuthilius
csargo

didn't vote for bad(s), but think they're good:
logic
newyn

didn't vote for bad(s), could be bad on own merit:
choxorn
egix

dead/confirmed bad:
el barto
pzelda

Csargo
12-08-2019, 03:47
I did vote both Barto and Zelda (and Barto, that was for a reason).


:2thumbsup:

merl1n
12-08-2019, 03:50
in a irl game we'd just instantly kill egix and choxorn and then see where game stands in this kind of situation

merl1n
12-08-2019, 03:57
I don't know how but, a few months away from turning 30, I feel that i don't have the levels of insanity required to batshit-post my way through two games in stereo, so I'll take on this game as I do the 36/12s on MU. Out for the day in the summer heat, back home, concentrate on the thread a bit, then back into overnight horror film marathons. I just can't post 12 hours in a row as I did when Zack et al. first knew me.

OK, I'm parking my vote here for now. Be more constructive or else.

vote: Fable

i forgot el barto attacked fable for memeing. initial instinct is it makes fable good, but it could go either way from barto's end. i've attacked partners for not taking the game seriously before. i like fable's play independently later in day where he could have stayed on ladd but switched to a wolf instead because he'd have felt bad if we voted ladd or something?? idr details but it seems okay

fable probably good

merl1n
12-08-2019, 04:17
Things wolves say about other wolves

if barto is a villager, ignore

i dont really like ladds early game posting about both of the dead bads but this post is hard to shake

merl1n
12-08-2019, 04:39
newyn voting for el barto but only doing so because he liked the people voting el barto rather than having any read on el barto themselves is good i think

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 04:55
in a irl game we'd just instantly kill egix and choxorn and then see where game stands in this kind of situation

This is pretty much where I'm at right now, but we get the added bonus of 45 more hours to fully iron things out. :wizard:

merl1n
12-08-2019, 05:00
i reread through game and updating my groupings that seem so popular with ppl

confirmed/dead good:
empoof

very strong good:
zack
insaner

probably good:
ladd
general
montmorency

likely good:
fable
dyachei
newyn

maybe good:
logic
cuthilius
csargo

maybe bad:
choxorn
egix

dead/confirmed bad:
el barto
pzelda

ppl are already voting egix so

vote: choxorn

maybe i should have logic a grouping lower than i do, bcz with ladd no longer being a strong bad read for me idk why i think logic is good. if there are bads voting for bads it is probably one of cuthilius or csargo

merl1n
12-08-2019, 05:03
general and ladd are close to being up 1 grouping but the interactions going both directions are stronger for zack and insaner

fable is maybe 1 grouping too low too, i think i think i think he is more good than the other two in his grouping, but all 3 are probz good

ama if u have questions

Newyn
12-08-2019, 05:46
This is where I'm at -
Never lynch outside of a lylo situation: Zack, Insaner, ladd
Probably town: Cuth, GH, Monty
Voted for confirmed mafia: Fable, Dya, Csargo
Don't like their vote but their posts seem towny: Logic, Merlin
Lynch with fire: Egix, Choxorn

I'd prefer a Choxorn lynch over Egix for selfish reasons (I'm clear if he's mafia :laugh4:)
Merlin would be higher in the probably town section if I base it off only his content but I'm a little worried that his posts feels abit too towny for someone who's supposedly new to forum mafia and I don't really like his reason for voting ladd yesterday.

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 05:50
I'm about to go to bed, and while obviously we still have a long while to go before the day ends, I'd much rather prefer an Egix lynch here over a Choxorn one (or one for anybody else, but this post is talking about Choxorn specifically). This is partly because I think Egix has straight-up been scummier than Chox, partly because of various nightkill-related musings I've had that I'll share if I deem the time to be right. Somebody ping me about this tomorrow or Monday in case I forget to elaborate on it.

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 05:52
This is where I'm at -
Never lynch outside of a lylo situation: Zack, Insaner, ladd
Probably town: Cuth, GH, Monty
Voted for confirmed mafia: Fable, Dya, Csargo
Don't like their vote but their posts seem towny: Logic, Merlin
Lynch with fire: Egix, Choxorn

I'd prefer a Choxorn lynch over Egix for selfish reasons (I'm clear if he's mafia :laugh4:)
Merlin would be higher in the probably town section if I base it off only his content but I'm a little worried that his posts feels abit too towny for someone who's supposedly new to forum mafia and I don't really like his reason for voting ladd yesterday.

Why is ladd in your top category?

Newyn
12-08-2019, 05:57
Why is ladd in your top category?

What he posted yesterday regarding El barto and Pzelda doesn't feel w/w to me and more importantly, El Barto listened to Insaner and switched to ladd when Insaner asked even though he was voting for Insaner before this. I don't see a wolf willingly going along with that if they're partners with ladd.

Csargo
12-08-2019, 06:00
Maybe I was wrong about merl1n.


i guess pzelda can be lynched, but i think a lot of people pushing/voting them are suspicious

Who were you talking about here?

Insaner
12-08-2019, 06:01
I feel validated and embarassed at the same time.

Newyn
12-08-2019, 06:03
Also for ladd to be a wolf, the top wagons at the end of yesterday was w/w/w or w/w/w/w if both ladd/Choxorn are wolves in which case, what are the wolves doing this game?

Csargo
12-08-2019, 06:03
I feel validated and embarassed at the same time.

:bow:

Insaner
12-08-2019, 06:08
I have some thoughts but I think I'd rather hold on to them for now. I wanna see how today develops first.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 06:11
Tally:
1 Montmorency (Pzelda,)
3 El Barto (Zack, Cuth, Csargo)
4 PZelda (Insaner, monty, Dya, GH)
1 Newyn (Choxorn)
4 Ladd (Fable, Logic, Egix, merl1n)
1 Insaner (El Barto)
3 CHoxorn (Empoof, Newyn, ladd)

LMK if i've made a mistake.

insaner and somewhat dya pushing on them so strongly skeeved me out as i didnt think theyd been all that memorable. i thought ladd was bad and insaner was maybe bad, though they werent together. with two confirmed bads to look at posts of, i think i was probably wrong on all accounts there

Csargo
12-08-2019, 06:15
This is where I'm at -
Never lynch outside of a lylo situation: Zack, Insaner, ladd
Probably town: Cuth, GH, Monty
Voted for confirmed mafia: Fable, Dya, Csargo
Don't like their vote but their posts seem towny: Logic, Merlin
Lynch with fire: Egix, Choxorn

I'd prefer a Choxorn lynch over Egix for selfish reasons (I'm clear if he's mafia :laugh4:)
Merlin would be higher in the probably town section if I base it off only his content but I'm a little worried that his posts feels abit too towny for someone who's supposedly new to forum mafia and I don't really like his reason for voting ladd yesterday.

What makes you view Cuth as probable town at this point?

merl1n
12-08-2019, 06:17
I'm about to go to bed, and while obviously we still have a long while to go before the day ends, I'd much rather prefer an Egix lynch here over a Choxorn one (or one for anybody else, but this post is talking about Choxorn specifically). This is partly because I think Egix has straight-up been scummier than Chox, partly because of various nightkill-related musings I've had that I'll share if I deem the time to be right. Somebody ping me about this tomorrow or Monday in case I forget to elaborate on it.

im agreeable to egix being lynched, i just want them to both have votes. theres only a few ppl who didnt vote a now known bad and i think the others are all good

Csargo
12-08-2019, 06:18
insaner and somewhat dya pushing on them so strongly skeeved me out as i didnt think theyd been all that memorable. i thought ladd was bad and insaner was maybe bad, though they werent together. with two confirmed bads to look at posts of, i think i was probably wrong on all accounts there

pzelda wasn't that memorable? I can't say I fully understand where you're coming from, but fair enough.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 06:20
pzelda wasn't that memorable? I can't say I fully understand where you're coming from, but fair enough.

i think you were even less memorable if that helps. i thought you and pzelda were the same person because someone called them capage, and i thought that was you posting on the wrong acct or something xD

Csargo
12-08-2019, 06:23
i think you were even less memorable if that helps. i thought you and pzelda were the same person because someone called them capage, and i thought that was you posting on the wrong acct or something xD

That's my special ability, I'm the least memorable person you'll ever play with. Remember that. :soapbox:

Newyn
12-08-2019, 06:25
What makes you view Cuth as probable town at this point?

I've read them as town since early yesterday because I was pretty much on the same page as him regarding Merlin. He also voted for a confirmed wolf relatively early so unless something changes, I see no reason to reevaluate my read on him for now.

Choxorn
12-08-2019, 06:31
I don't think I can really defend how crappy I was yesterday- I'm busy IRL a lot and don't always pay enough attention and that turns into me being way too inactive.

Current thoughts: Zack is lock town, merl1n, Insaner, ladd, GH, and Fable are all likely town, lots of the thread looks somewhere between town and scum to me. Looks like lots of folks wanna lynch either me or Egix today based on how we acted yesterday, and I also thought he was suspicious yesterday- but I also tracked him doing nothing last night, which is far from clearing but is certainly a point in his favor.

Really need to read things a bit more to get a stronger idea of who's scummy, I'll get to that later but for now I need to go eat dinner.

Csargo
12-08-2019, 06:31
I've read them as town since early yesterday because I was pretty much on the same page as him regarding Merlin. He also voted for a confirmed wolf relatively early so unless something changes, I see no reason to reevaluate my read on him for now.

I completely forgot Cuth was on Barto before me, it didn't register in my head for some reason.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 06:34
Meh. I think

Insaner
12-08-2019, 06:36
I think it's probably just Egix tbh.

Was gonna ask what Choxo did in order to remove himself from exactly rand category but they just claimed tracker.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 06:45
Oh they claim track on Egix. I don't think wolf Egix would've thought himself to be a good kill carrier given his position at the end. I think mechanically we aren't supposed to lynch him now =/ But I think he is a good info lynch and I don't recall him ever commenting on my pzelda push yesterday.

Mainly I want them lynched so GH can clear himself by flipping a wolf. I liked him a lot today actually, buy if Egix flips villa I will be suspicious.

Egix
12-08-2019, 07:03
I'm town. I don't have any powers (apart from my voice and vote ofc)

Insaner
12-08-2019, 07:13
I feel validated and embarassed at the same time.
1 wolf hard pushed. 1 wolf hard defended. Balanced as all things should be.

Egix
12-08-2019, 07:19
This is a really rough post.

I wouldn't have made such a careless post about someone if I actually knew they were scum.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 07:22
Should take a look at Empoof's reads at some point.

ladd
12-08-2019, 07:22
heyo scoobs, how is kife going?

I realized it was you yday at eod with avatar change et all but I was too tired to process it

ladd
12-08-2019, 07:24
heyo scoobs, how is kife going?

I realized it was you yday at eod with avatar change et all but I was too tired to process it

life*

also egix, what are your reads rn? Part of me thinks you would not push me d1 as scum but your posts arent good

Insaner
12-08-2019, 07:24
Should take a look at Empoof's reads at some point.
But my initial guess is lolspk.

ladd
12-08-2019, 07:30
insaner, how did you know pzelda=capage?

Insaner
12-08-2019, 07:31
insaner, how did you know pzelda=capage?
Tmi

Insaner
12-08-2019, 07:36
I'm sorry. I should stop trolling you now. I feel bad about treating you the way I did yesterday.

Visor said who they were in the recruitment thread on mu. The reason I decided to join this game was the absolutely hype playerlist, and Capage was one of many players I was eager to play with. I feel a little bad for murdering him with my meta case when he wanted to play anonimously. I would not have gone for him as hard as I did yesterday without prior experience with him.

Cuthillius
12-08-2019, 07:45
hi i'm cuth and i'm inordinately upset at the extent to which people are still putting me in the poe

but it's tired and i'm late so maybe words tomorrow

gj all us though

Egix
12-08-2019, 07:45
life*

also egix, what are your reads rn? Part of me thinks you would not push me d1 as scum but your posts arent good

Well, Insan is town unless he hellbussed, which I doubt.
Fable and Logic are still my pet townreads.
And Chox is probably just town, considering his claim.

ladd
12-08-2019, 07:51
Well, Insan is town unless he hellbussed, which I doubt.
Fable and Logic are still my pet townreads.
And Chox is probably just town, considering his claim.

can you go more in depth on fable/logic?

and who do you think are the wolves? if you are a villager you have the best pov of us all

Insaner
12-08-2019, 08:03
I wouldn't have made such a careless post about someone if I actually knew they were scum.
Was that the only purpose behind this post? :P

Like, I don't recall you memeing much about anyone else in the game.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 08:29
Was that the only purpose behind this post? :P

Like, I don't recall you memeing much about anyone else in the game.
I mean it wasn't even a funny meme. It was just awkward.

Newyn
12-08-2019, 08:42
heyo scoobs, how is kife going?

I realized it was you yday at eod with avatar change et all but I was too tired to process it

Hi, I've been taking a break from forum mafia but this player list looked too good to pass up.

Cho gets a pass today at least with his claim but still don't like Egix. Going nowhere just means he's probably not mafia PR, doubt he'd carry kp after yesterday.

Claiming vt after Cho claimed to have tracked him as his opening post feels off to me and "I wouldn't do x if I knew they were scum" is pretty much just wifom.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 08:47
Well since it looks like Egix has given up I suppose there's no use holding this back now. What I was gonna say is I think that Cuth is the last wolf based on the following quotes:


I like Newyn. I don't know if I'm comfortable calling him either alignment yet, though.

Pzelda's opening was rather bizarre and really really awkward if wolf, so villager points there. In particular the interaction with Zack.

I'm unsettled by wagon comp on Monty, think I'd rather hold off there for now, since I'm personally not confident on reading him generically speaking.

Was going to vote Logic, but now I sorta think him calling GH and Zack null, if lazy particularly in the first case, is mildly villagery.

Hum ho.


would you say capage's the kind of person who makes equivalently off the wall reads as any alignment?

hm

lot more willing to excuse ladd based on those reasons, given the size of the game and how we've just started

but curious to see how that evolves over time

appreciate the answer, genuinely :)

Cuthillius
12-08-2019, 08:57
lol

you don't say

Insaner
12-08-2019, 09:48
lol

you don't say
Told you I was gonna get ya after Capage flipped wolf.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 10:31
Everyone else looks like a villager to me. Maybe Monty? He is just plain weird. Choxorn is self resolving as wolves will want to get rid of him if he is a village tracker. Just give him until F3 to catch all wolves and snap him then if he fails to do so. I don't see who else it could be.

ladd
12-08-2019, 11:23
I have today completely free but tomorrow I'll barely be able to post so the plan is to re read as much as I can today and PoE this game

doesn't seem too hard atm but I wouldn't wanna let something slip by us

forgive me for the likely number of consecutive posts I am about to make

ladd
12-08-2019, 11:31
I find Monty's unrelated thoughts to be some type of content for content. I'm not a big fan. Other than that, It's been a nice game so far. I don't even feel like throwing my vote around and killing someone.

Actually, Empoof has been the loudest voice so far and I like him for that. I read some mashes on MU and he's usually loud trying to powertown or powerwolf. Finding the difference might be hard but this has felt like a honest effort so far.

Townreads so far:
Empoof
Merlin
Insaner
Egix

Zack and Barto produced some activity and I definitely spotted them. The latter's definitely more lackluster of the two. Zack's late posts are solid and filled with micro reads. My only fear is that the read on him is so consensus. Barto's posts are trashier with more fluff, but I think that him going against the thread might be a good look.

Cuth made a long post I skipped, then returned to it and read the last sentence:


I'm not a big fan of the wording here. I agree with the read, tho.

The rest is of players consists the bottom pile. I guess monty and gh stand out but not in a good way. GH might be too much of a MU champs meta read, but Monty's just been making fluffy unrelated posts.

Vote: Montomercy

just don't think it makes much sense for p to awkwardly defend barto (who was being pushed more) in this post and then decide to buss anyway by voting monty

ladd
12-08-2019, 11:32
also El Barto have we played together before? did you have a different username?

dyachei why did you ask this question?

ladd
12-08-2019, 12:14
There really isn't as much spew as I thought from El Barto/Capage, at least from their sides. Will try to read it from player's sides later on, but for now between the ISO function on here (no offense, I just got too used to all the tools on mu) and me being a bit burnout of ww in general, I don't really feel like doing too much back reading and would rather just real time it when people are around mash style.

Anyway here is the situation.

Zack is a villager, everyone agrees and he should never be lynched.

GH is a villager, he is just playing like his obvious villa self imo. Not much to do with his zelda push really (2 wolves were wagons for a good portion of the day so wolves bussing is perfectly plausible esp later on), I think it could totally come from wolf gh given the situation but like he is just villagery and that's worth more than anything else to me.

Insaner is a villager too. The way he pushed zelda, zelda reaction to it, overall villagery, etc...

Monty is a spewed villager, don't think him being a wolf makes any sense.

I am an obvious villager.

I don't really see Fable playing yesterday like he did as a wolf almost ever. First of all I don't think he votes me the way he did and then he just busses pzelda like that? Just a villa.

Logic is a villager cause GH says so (and also cause I think his push on me while bad, made logical sense)

These guys are all ~locks to be villas.

Then there is merlin who imo has been villagery but also very wrong. I'll re read his EoD later but I think his post about agreeing with the last person to post that GH disliked shows a mindset that is just hard to fake as a wolf. Also he as Empoof top villa read.

That leaves us with:

dya
Cuth
Chox
Newyin
Egix
Csargo

I think last 2 wolves are in here.

Chox claimed tracker and is self resolving as long as we lynch the other wolf before we get to f-whatever. Would leave alone for now, he is not endgaming with that claim.

I think dya will probably be able to clear herself just by being villagery given time, I didn't mind her d1 but not to clearing levels.

newyin is in a similar spot as dya, maybe liked his d1 slightly more.

Csargo is just rand unless someone has meta on them.

cuth could be a wolf? I haven't read the context of his barto vote, will do so in a bit but going by what I remember they did nothing particularly clearing and I just read their long wall for the first time rn and it just seems like a word salad. If you are a villager, can you quote me what you think is clearing for you since you feel that way?

Egix has the least going for them, I don't think this is a smoking gun as much as GH and am willing to entertain them being a villa, but they just have nothing going for them except the fact that maybe they would not have the balls to go after me as a wolf but that's worth little at this point. His monty push in particular was super lazy and Egix can you explain more in detail why you thought I was a wolf so much that you voted me d1 and ended the day voting me?

ladd
12-08-2019, 12:23
vote: El Barto


I do think Monty looks better, and I'm less comfortable with my company on that wagon

plus Barto is definitely pretty low-key

and I think it's a helpful lynch no matter what

can you elaborate on both of the bolded?

I know the first is kinda self explaining but I wanna know exactly how you felt about people on both wagons at that point and what made you switch like that

ladd
12-08-2019, 12:24
also for post game credit, I had empoof as a PR

that's the thign that kinda makes me fear this game maybe not be super easy as we are thinking since after that EoD I feel empoof would be the nk only if choxorn is a wolf or if wolves are paying attention and PR read him as well

ladd
12-08-2019, 12:39
i liked insaner staking a LITERALLY 100% read strength on someone, bc i dont think a bad ever does that, but him walking it back some mitigates it a little



my problem with that is i think insaner might be bad, so unless he's willing to stake a VERY strong claim on something that he can be held accountable for i'm reluctant to follow his lead


merl1n can you go again over why exactly you thought insaner could be a wolf?

also why that stopped you from giving any kind of read on pzelda all game afaict

ladd
12-08-2019, 12:40
alrighty, merl1n d1 is really wolfsided and not as villagery as I remember

still feel his mindset on the "last one to talk seems right" is something hard to fake as a wolf

so would still lean on him being a villager

Zack
12-08-2019, 12:45
Insaner spitroasted a wolf and thinks it's a role madness game. The wolves didn't know barto was going to die and should have been expecting to sacrifice him d2 if they let me live through the night.

Empoof defended zelda iirc and was not really gunning after anyone except choxorn that I remember. I don't know why they would kill him if chox is villa

Not sure why everyone thinks dya is so villagy. She is near the bottom of my POE.

I'm also chuckling at insaner's God read of capage now being correct 3 out of 4 games, which is literally just rand lol

Zack
12-08-2019, 12:46
Maybe one of those people that was all "why do people think Merlin is so villagy?!?!?!" is w/w with Merlin

ladd
12-08-2019, 12:49
Maybe one of those people that was all "why do people think Merlin is so villagy?!?!?!" is w/w with Merlin

lol an ever green

choxorn just claimed tracker fwiw. I agree with you that game would make more sense if Choxorn was a wolf but shrug, seems pointless to go there today

Zack
12-08-2019, 12:49
Also let's take a moment to acknowledge that I had the sickest soul read of all time

Zack
12-08-2019, 12:51
kind of a weird read but I kind of like that GH stepped away from the game after the hydra game ended. feels like if he were wolfing he'd be more likely to try hard after a loss there

This is like the reasons Yates would give when he townread someone

I don't get it at all. Feels like an enormous reach

Zack
12-08-2019, 12:52
When I was reading eod, the way GH joined the zelda wagon made me think of how he joined me on Darren Sanders in the finale

GH is an extremely likely villager but I wanted to seed the thread with that knowledge anyway

ladd
12-08-2019, 12:53
This is like the reasons Yates would give when he townread someone

I don't get it at all. Feels like an enormous reach

:thumbsup:

was weird for me as well, think I called it out yday

Zack
12-08-2019, 12:54
What wolf team would have ever had egix carry the kill there?

ladd
12-08-2019, 12:56
what do you think about scoobs? I kinda don't think that's the way he would buss but not suepr sure if I remember his meta correctly

also interested in your cuth read

Zack
12-08-2019, 12:57
what do you think about scoobs? I kinda don't think that's the way he would buss but not suepr sure if I remember his meta correctly

also interested in your cuth read

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
On both

ladd
12-08-2019, 13:00
reading pzelda/barto posts I think the wolf team didn't wanna buss at least early on fwiw

ladd
12-08-2019, 13:06
any ORGer has tips to read csargo?

ladd
12-08-2019, 13:08
one of egix/merl1n is almost surely a wolf imo

just going by pzelda read list and by how I think he was trying to play

Egix
12-08-2019, 13:21
Egix can you explain more in detail why you thought I was a wolf so much that you voted me d1 and ended the day voting me?

When I first voted you, it wasn't completely serious. I was aware that you could have just been memeing, but I didn't have any better idea of who to vote, and as you could probably tell from the 1610 reference there was always a chance that you were scum seeking refuge in audacity.

Then when I voted you again closer to EoD, it was because I ultimately decided that a wagon on you was more likely to go through than one on Monty (I understand that people may find this scummy, but putting my vote where I predict it will have more relevance at deadline is something I normally do in games where I can't make deadline [see: all of my MU games])

ladd
12-08-2019, 13:25
When I first voted you, it wasn't completely serious. I was aware that you could have just been memeing, but I didn't have any better idea of who to vote, and as you could probably tell from the 1610 reference there was always a chance that you were scum seeking refuge in audacity.

Then when I voted you again closer to EoD, it was because I ultimately decided that a wagon on you was more likely to go through than one on Monty (I understand that people may find this scummy, but putting my vote where I predict it will have more relevance at deadline is something I normally do in games where I can't make deadline [see: all of my MU games])

ok buy why did you think I was a wolf?

literally just because I was trolling a bit? that's it?

I mean your votes this game were:

- monty for saying I was 3p

- me for trolling a little bit

I hope you understand that we need soemthing more friendo

liek who are the wolves if it's not you and it's not chox?

Egix
12-08-2019, 13:27
What wolf team would have ever had egix carry the kill there?

In all honesty?

One where I am a goon and my buddies are non-multitasking PRs.
At least that's how it would be on MS. I have no idea whether multitasking scums are the norm or not on this site tho.

Zack
12-08-2019, 13:37
If I'm to put this in a readslist I think it goes something like:

Logic
Fable

Zack
Insaner

Monty
ladd

--- town line ---

Csargo
dya
Newyn
Pzelda
Cuth
Egix

Empoof
Choxorn

--- null/idk line ---

merl1n

El Barto

Spicy Merlin placement

Dumb read incoming: if Merlin is a villager, and he was getting read villa by pretty much everyone, how come no one ever asked GH about his placement of Merlin? No wolf thought to ask GH about his Merlin placement there? Kinda strange if he's town. That's such an easy and common wolf question / discussion point to have with villa GH

I'm going to sleep lol

Egix
12-08-2019, 13:41
ok buy why did you think I was a wolf?

literally just because I was trolling a bit? that's it?

I mean your votes this game were:

- monty for saying I was 3p

- me for trolling a little bit

I hope you understand that we need soemthing more friendo

liek who are the wolves if it's not you and it's not chox?

Not just for that, he also made a vote that seemed like it had been tacked on the end without any forethought.

I don't have much more to give honestly, if you're expecting me to have built solid cases on Day One (which was never my strong suit!) then you're asking for too much.

As for who scums are, I really don't have much of an idea yet (still need to have a go at rereading D1) but if I had to name two people I would say Csargo+Cuth.

Zack
12-08-2019, 13:48
Spicy Merlin placement

Dumb read incoming: if Merlin is a villager, and he was getting read villa by pretty much everyone, how come no one ever asked GH about his placement of Merlin? No wolf thought to ask GH about his Merlin placement there? Kinda strange if he's town. That's such an easy and common wolf question / discussion point to have with villa GH

I'm going to sleep lol

This post is so stupid :laugh4:

ladd
12-08-2019, 13:56
vote: merl1n

ladd
12-08-2019, 14:00
meh

doesnt feel great given he was empoof top villa read but we'll see

Insaner
12-08-2019, 14:00
When I was reading eod, the way GH joined the zelda wagon made me think of how he joined me on Darren Sanders in the finale

GH is an extremely likely villager but I wanted to seed the thread with that knowledge anyway
Fwiw I didn't get a good vibe on GH when he was riding the pzelda wagon either. It seemed like he was looking for excuses to sway the votes elsewhere the entire time.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 14:04
Is dya a busser? Because she was the person who stood behind my case on pzelda the most.

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 14:10
I can see where Zack would make the comparison to my DS vote in the last game where I was mafia against him, but you're forgetting the part a little later on in the day where I independently iso'd Zelda, picked out a post that I found to be a bad look, and signed off on the lynch based on my own reading.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 14:11
Insaner spitroasted a wolf and thinks it's a role madness game. The wolves didn't know barto was going to die and should have been expecting to sacrifice him d2 if they let me live through the night.

Empoof defended zelda iirc and was not really gunning after anyone except choxorn that I remember. I don't know why they would kill him if chox is villa

Not sure why everyone thinks dya is so villagy. She is near the bottom of my POE.

I'm also chuckling at insaner's God read of capage now being correct 3 out of 4 games, which is literally just rand lol
Well to be fair the one time I misread him was in the biggest game of the year where I entirely skipped most of his posts lol

ladd
12-08-2019, 14:53
Is dya a busser? Because she was the person who stood behind my case on pzelda the most.

yes

havent seen her wolf in a while though, generally I am the one who rands wolf when we play together

Insaner
12-08-2019, 14:57
I think merl1n wanting to hold me accountable for Capage flip shows he really had no clue he was going to flip wolf. His posting was super villagery even though his reads were very wrong by the looks of it. He's still in my top towns.

ladd
12-08-2019, 15:04
unvote

ya, don't feel great voting here for now

still wanna hear more about how he handled you/zelda early on

ladd
12-08-2019, 15:07
All right, you know what

Unvote
Vote: ladd

Choo choo mothertruckers


Tally:
4 El Barto (Montmorency, Zack, Empoof, ladd)
3 Montmorency (El Barto, Pzelda, Cuthillius,)
3 Ladd (Fable, Logic, Egix)
1 Choxorn (Newyn)
2 PZelda (Insaner, GH)
1 Newyn (Choxorn)


Not voting: Merl1n, Dyachei, Csargo

This seems correct?


When I first voted you, it wasn't completely serious. I was aware that you could have just been memeing, but I didn't have any better idea of who to vote, and as you could probably tell from the 1610 reference there was always a chance that you were scum seeking refuge in audacity.

Then when I voted you again closer to EoD, it was because I ultimately decided that a wagon on you was more likely to go through than one on Monty (I understand that people may find this scummy, but putting my vote where I predict it will have more relevance at deadline is something I normally do in games where I can't make deadline [see: all of my MU games])

Egix explain why it was more likely to go through iyo

Insaner
12-08-2019, 15:07
yes

havent seen her wolf in a while though, generally I am the one who rands wolf when we play together
She certainly may have felt like Capage was going always down here with how much I was pushing for his death while claiming to have a god read on him. And his posting wasn't very good. It's possible that she thought she was obligated to read him right after I said that this is what I expected of her. Perhaps I shouldn't be giving her THAT much credit for that and read her with more scrutiny.

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 15:25
I wouldn't have made such a careless post about someone if I actually knew they were scum.

My problem with that post is that it's just a bad post regardless of the person you're townreading's alignment. It's like... of all the things to make a joke read for, using "thrice" instead of "three times"? I know you dropped the phrase "tonal memes read" but it doesn't even make sense really, just seemed super awkward in general. And then to have PZelda flip mafia, and have you make that post at a time when they weren't picking up much heat (and thus your post was more likely to disappear into the ether assuming PZelda would have survived for longer than he did)... just oof.


Well, Insan is town unless he hellbussed, which I doubt.
Fable and Logic are still my pet townreads.
And Chox is probably just town, considering his claim.

What about scumreads? You see the great majority of us going through the thread and POEing it down, or at least trying to. There are obviously some disagreements over exact placements (dya, merl1n, etc), but if you're town you're in the unique position of knowing that the general consensus is incorrect at some point besides you. Who do you think we should be lynching instead of you today?

Egix
12-08-2019, 15:30
Egix explain why it was more likely to go through iyo

Insaner was willing to vote you, and the general impression I was getting was that other Monty voters might be moving off him (e.g. on to Zelda/Bart)

ladd
12-08-2019, 15:34
can you elaborate on both of the bolded?

I know the first is kinda self explaining but I wanna know exactly how you felt about people on both wagons at that point and what made you switch like that


Tally:
4 El Barto (Montmorency, Zack, Empoof, ladd)
3 Montmorency (El Barto, Pzelda, Cuthillius,)
3 Ladd (Fable, Logic, Egix)
1 Choxorn (Newyn)
2 PZelda (Insaner, GH)
1 Newyn (Choxorn)


Not voting: Merl1n, Dyachei, Csargo

This seems correct?

to add some context, this was the votecount at the time where cuth switched from monty to barto cause he said wagon composition looked better

I don't get why you thought so since you had pzelda as a villa read?

and you didn't town read anyone on bart wagon except zack afair

feel free to correct me if I am misremembering something, or if insaner vc was wrong

ladd
12-08-2019, 15:35
I feel pretty decent about emp/gh v/w world in some order but curious to see how some stuff plays out

why did you think so? and what was that "stuff"?

ladd
12-08-2019, 15:36
Insaner was willing to vote you, and the general impression I was getting was that other Monty voters might be moving off him (e.g. on to Zelda/Bart)

alrighty, I knew you were probably gonna answer like this but worth a shot anyway

so why did you not care to see why people were wolf reading bart and pzelda?

Insaner
12-08-2019, 15:36
I'm telling yall this better flip wolf or I'm sussing GH HARD tomorrow.

vote: Egix

ladd
12-08-2019, 15:40
also egix, can you explain why you villa read fable/logic more in depth?

Egix
12-08-2019, 15:55
My problem with that post is that it's just a bad post regardless of the person you're townreading's alignment. It's like... of all the things to make a joke read for, using "thrice" instead of "three times"? I know you dropped the phrase "tonal memes read" but it doesn't even make sense really, just seemed super awkward in general. And then to have PZelda flip mafia, and have you make that post at a time when they weren't picking up much heat (and thus *your post was more likely to disappear into the ether assuming PZelda would have survived for longer than he did)... just oof.



What about scumreads? You see the great majority of us going through the thread and POEing it down, or at least trying to. There are obviously some disagreements over exact placements (dya, merl1n, etc), but if you're town you're in the unique position of knowing that the general consensus is incorrect at some point besides you. Who do you think we should be lynching instead of you today?

I thought that that specific choice of word made it more believable that he had actually read the post more than once, which is something that I thought town would be more likely to do. 'Thrice' is quite an archaic word so I would feel like, if someone actually went out of their way to read a post more than once, they would also go out of their way to choose fancy words.

Yyyeah it's only when I actually type this out that I realise how absurd it sounds :sad3:

*: It's not like I was intending for that post to go unnoticed. I would have been able to give that explanation at the time if anyone had asked me about it when it was new.


As I said to ladd earlier, my GTH scums are Csargo and Cuth... possibly dya as a plus-one. The problem I see now though, as I type this, is that really I'm just going with the consensus on you/ladd/Zack.

ladd
12-08-2019, 15:57
I thought that that specific choice of word made it more believable that he had actually read the post more than once, which is something that I thought town would be more likely to do. 'Thrice' is quite an archaic word so I would feel like, if someone actually went out of their way to read a post more than once, they would also go out of their way to choose fancy words.

Yyyeah it's only when I actually type this out that I realise how absurd it sounds :sad3:

*: It's not like I was intending for that post to go unnoticed. I would have been able to give that explanation at the time if anyone had asked me about it when it was new.


As I said to ladd earlier, my GTH scums are Csargo and Cuth... possibly dya as a plus-one. The problem I see now though, as I type this, is that really I'm just going with the consensus on you/ladd/Zack.

this seems villagery

keep it up broski

ladd
12-08-2019, 16:00
wait, you are syaing you have no read on me /gh/zack but you have one on like newyin for example?

that'd be peculiar

Insaner
12-08-2019, 16:09
vote: GeeEich

Egix
12-08-2019, 16:14
also egix, can you explain why you villa read fable/logic more in depth?

From what I've read of Fable's games (mainly Champs), I would say that they are more aggro (can't really think of a better term than this, it's like they actually do a lot of stuff to look town) as scum, and more laid-back (or, dare I say, lackadaisical?) as town. Ofc I think that Fable's play this game is more in line with the latter.

As for Logic, my impression of his meta is that he's a bit like me - obvious scum as scum, and not-obvscum as town. I thought that p#321 (idk if this forum has a button/tags for postnums, apologies) was a well-thought-out post (hence why I described it as a source of good vibes) and I feel that if he were scum it would have been... not as good? Obviously this read doesn't apply had that post been written by anyone else, and this isn't as strong as the Fable read.

Egix
12-08-2019, 16:19
wait, you are syaing you have no read on me /gh/zack but you have one on like newyin for example?

that'd be peculiar
I forgot Newyn was a thing tbh
He's null for me rn


vote: GeeEich

Huh, I'm intrigued by this. Lemme find your reasoning.

ladd
12-08-2019, 16:21
alrighty thanks

guess I ll read some of your games to check if it s true there is such a difference between your villa play and your wolf play

ladd
12-08-2019, 16:22
alrighty, I knew you were probably gonna answer like this but worth a shot anyway

so why did you not care to see why people were wolf reading bart and pzelda?

still would like this answered too

Egix
12-08-2019, 16:31
Is dya a busser?

I'm pretty sure she's well known for it. IIRC she herself says that she busses like a madman.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 16:34
Huh, I'm intrigued by this. Lemme find your reasoning.
The first reason is he was trying to find reasons to move votes off pzelda yesterday. I might provide quotes when I'm on computer but not rn.

The other reason is this post.


My problem with that post is that it's just a bad post regardless of the person you're townreading's alignment. It's like... of all the things to make a joke read for, using "thrice" instead of "three times"? I know you dropped the phrase "tonal memes read" but it doesn't even make sense really, just seemed super awkward in general. And then to have PZelda flip mafia, and have you make that post at a time when they weren't picking up much heat (and thus your post was more likely to disappear into the ether assuming PZelda would have survived for longer than he did)... just oof.


I don't believe GH believes his scum read on you. Like, you have so many things going against you: you ended up on what seems to be the only villager wagon at EoD (and the timing of that vote was horrible as well imo), you had no good interactions with any of the flipped wolves, and this quote where you give a meme read on pzelda is truly unfortunate. I think that all of the above means that we oughta just hammer you right now tbh. And yet he is giving you so much benefit of the doubt here which I just don't understand. It's like he has 0 faith in you flipping scum.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 16:37
Btw the way ladd is questioning Egix right now feels honest to me.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 16:44
I guess it isn't the fact that GH is giving Egix the benefit of the doubt itself but rather the contrast between how he started today ("Egix is always the lynch") and the sudden loss of conviction that is putting me off so much. Egix didn't make any towny posts in that time and GH didn't come up with any new suspects either so I don't understand where this change of heart is coming from.

Egix
12-08-2019, 16:45
so why did you not care to see why people were wolf reading bart and pzelda?

Sry, missed this

I had read enough to get the general idea of why they were being scumread but I guess I just hadn't found any of it compelling enough.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 17:04
how many bads are we probably looking at in a game this size? insaner keeps talking like there's only 1 left but that seems like not many. we usually have 9 good/3 bad in our games

Insaner
12-08-2019, 17:08
how many bads are we probably looking at in a game this size? insaner keeps talking like there's only 1 left but that seems like not many. we usually have 9 good/3 bad in our games
There are usually 4 wolves in a 17er. I was assuming Egix was a wolf and I was talking about his remaining partner, but I am now beginning to doubt it.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 17:13
There are usually 4 wolves in a 17er. I was assuming Egix was a wolf and I was talking about his remaining partner, but I am now beginning to doubt it.

i could have sworn you said something about egix being the last, but it was a bleary eyed read through of stuff i missed overnight on my phone. ill chalk it up to misreading/misunderstanding, ok thx

merl1n
12-08-2019, 17:14
I think it's probably just Egix tbh.

Was gonna ask what Choxo did in order to remove himself from exactly rand category but they just claimed tracker.

was this post i think my brain added a left in there somewhere

merl1n
12-08-2019, 17:20
it feels awfully convienent that the 2 ppl i was suspecting are semiclearing each other with the track to someone going nowhere. they probably arent bad together tho, espec with choxorn saying it doesnt clear egix

Csargo
12-08-2019, 17:23
I guess it isn't the fact that GH is giving Egix the benefit of the doubt itself but rather the contrast between how he started today ("Egix is always the lynch") and the sudden loss of conviction that is putting me off so much. Egix didn't make any towny posts in that time and GH didn't come up with any new suspects either so I don't understand where this change of heart is coming from.

Where are you seeing a loss of conviction? Am I just completely missing something here?

Montmorency
12-08-2019, 17:31
PART I

Prefatory statement: Have fun with your towncore guys but I've learned from painful experience that you shouldn't take them too rigidly or extensive. Many a successful town has been felled by complacency out of the early game. GH for one knows this well. Giving people until F3 never works because there's inevitably too much disruption in the meantime. I'm still lock town though. And I still have to produce wagonomics.


I'm about to go to bed, and while obviously we still have a long while to go before the day ends, I'd much rather prefer an Egix lynch here over a Choxorn one (or one for anybody else, but this post is talking about Choxorn specifically). This is partly because I think Egix has straight-up been scummier than Chox, partly because of various nightkill-related musings I've had that I'll share if I deem the time to be right. Somebody ping me about this tomorrow or Monday in case I forget to elaborate on it.

I don't know if you've done this yet, but I ping.



I don't think I can really defend how crappy I was yesterday- I'm busy IRL a lot and don't always pay enough attention and that turns into me being way too inactive.

Current thoughts: Zack is lock town, merl1n, Insaner, ladd, GH, and Fable are all likely town, lots of the thread looks somewhere between town and scum to me. Looks like lots of folks wanna lynch either me or Egix today based on how we acted yesterday, and I also thought he was suspicious yesterday- but I also tracked him doing nothing last night, which is far from clearing but is certainly a point in his favor.

Really need to read things a bit more to get a stronger idea of who's scummy, I'll get to that later but for now I need to go eat dinner.

Now, I'm not saying we should lynch Choxorn today but his unnecessary and jarring tracker claim makes me think the following, if you could hear my thoughts as I was stylistically representing myself reading them to you:


KILL CHOXORN

KILL HIM WITH FIRE

HE'S A MAFIA TRACKER

HE'S GONNA GO DEEP FOR GOD's SAKE SOMEONE DO SOMETHING

If he goes deep we're all dead

0. Tracker is almost as mafiatized a role as roleblocker.
1. There was no reason for Choxorn to make that claim in this gamestate.
2. Despite a tracker claim there's little reason to expect town-Chox to resolve by nightkill because, if he were town Mafia would have many other plausible targets - whom Choxorn could point to to excuse his own survival as scum-Chox.
3. Any Town PRs out there, blocking or investigative or whatever, get on Chox's rear tonight.

Choxorn is one of those players who can go deep UTR when his partners have been demolished. If only Renata were here.

But I'll let it slide today. Not tomorrow or any day after, but today - not you.


Tally:
4 El Barto (Montmorency, Zack, Empoof, ladd)
3 Montmorency (El Barto, Pzelda, Cuthillius,)
3 Ladd (Fable, Logic, Egix)
1 Choxorn (Newyn)
2 PZelda (Insaner, GH)
1 Newyn (Choxorn)


Not voting: Merl1n, Dyachei, Csargo

This seems correct?

From 1.5 hour before EOD.

VERY INTERESTING

I am lock town my dudes

Love it when I'm lock town.

Vote: Cuth

Montmorency
12-08-2019, 17:32
PART II


Well since it looks like Egix has given up I suppose there's no use holding this back now. What I was gonna say is I think that Cuth is the last wolf based on the following quotes:





GH, Zack, and others should tell me if I'm right to notice that Cuth is more passive-aggressive lately. Is that real or is my meta busted?


lol

you don't say

This post sounds like caught scum.


also for post game credit, I had empoof as a PR

that's the thign that kinda makes me fear this game maybe not be super easy as we are thinking since after that EoD I feel empoof would be the nk only if choxorn is a wolf or if wolves are paying attention and PR read him as well

Can you explain what you mean? What does an Empoof NK have to do with Chox specifically being mafia?


I'm also chuckling at insaner's God read of capage now being correct 3 out of 4 games, which is literally just rand lol

How is 3/4 rand?

So, wanna get Choxorn, or not yet?


Also let's take a moment to acknowledge that I had the sickest soul read of all time

Renata soul read on Choxorn Representative Democracy - and then she and Cass nabbed Barto soon after. :eyebrows:

But yeah, good job if you're town.


any ORGer has tips to read csargo?

Read the two mini games in 2018. In one he was scum, in the other he was town. My reads were switched though. There was also the Pokemon game in 2017 where (primarily) Zack nailed him for scum.

My career gut on him is probably ~rand in the end.


This post is so stupid :laugh4:

I don't really get it, but why is it stupid? Is merlin your partner? :smash:


I think merl1n wanting to hold me accountable for Capage flip shows he really had no clue he was going to flip wolf. His posting was super villagery even though his reads were very wrong by the looks of it. He's still in my top towns.

Yes. Merlin is mislynch reach goals for mafia IMO.


Insaner was willing to vote you, and the general impression I was getting was that other Monty voters might be moving off him (e.g. on to Zelda/Bart)

Who were the voters on me besides Zelda, Bart, and Cuth?

merl1n
12-08-2019, 17:34
open ? for ppl

is ladd some1 with good reputation?

the way i see it we had 4 options yesterday by the end: pzelda, el barto, ladd, and choxorn. bads knew that el barto and pzelda were both bad, so its important to consider that when looking through what happened. why did pzelda and el barto end up as top 2 vote getters if there were other options? im good and i was pushing ladd. empoof was good and was pushing choxorn. but ppl didnt do either

i still dont understand how el barto or pzelda were correctly identified. ive read their posts KNOWING they are bad last night and it doesnt seem any different from some of the other players who werent posting much yesterday. i can accept maybe its the kind of thing where when u know someone rlly well u pick up on small things, i do that in irl games where some of my friends i can just know when they are bad because its small differences from when good

i think with choxorn and egix not both being bad we had to have had some1 voting for a bad who is also a bad and knew they were doomed. idk if i want to kill ppl who voted for bads yet though

Insaner
12-08-2019, 17:40
Still reading up but pls don't listen to Monty on Chox lmao

Cuthillius
12-08-2019, 17:40
can you elaborate on both of the bolded?

I know the first is kinda self explaining but I wanna know exactly how you felt about people on both wagons at that point and what made you switch like that

4 El Barto (Montmorency, Zack, Empoof, ladd)
3 Montmorency (El Barto, Pzelda, Cuthillius)

most recent vote tally at the time

monty was trending up relatively heavily, i've been reading zack soundly villager all game, and i also thought empoof was town-- my only real hesitation there was gh wolf-reading him pretty strongly

didn't and still don't really have much of a personal opinion on ladd's alignment

at this point i was on board with the idea of el barto because, like i said (more or less), he typically has a certain fire that was, as zack pointed out, definitely lacking

also i think there's been a similar lynch in the past with me on the wrong side? something like that

i remember this being a Thing before

but the other option was just a completely disengaged village barto who'd been about the most talked about person this game, and that wouldn't be a terrible lynch either if it came to that

also while i was initially reading pzelda as villagery because his posting was too awkward, other people who actually knew him were saying otherwise so that was trending down

but i didn't have as much reason to go there or anywhere else, barto was the strongest wolfread i had apart from private tinfoils which were coming in and out of style throughout the phase

ladd
12-08-2019, 17:43
4 El Barto (Montmorency, Zack, Empoof, ladd)
3 Montmorency (El Barto, Pzelda, Cuthillius)

most recent vote tally at the time

monty was trending up relatively heavily, i've been reading zack soundly villager all game, and i also thought empoof was town-- my only real hesitation there was gh wolf-reading him pretty strongly

didn't and still don't really have much of a personal opinion on ladd's alignment

at this point i was on board with the idea of el barto because, like i said (more or less), he typically has a certain fire that was, as zack pointed out, definitely lacking

also i think there's been a similar lynch in the past with me on the wrong side? something like that

i remember this being a Thing before

but the other option was just a completely disengaged village barto who'd been about the most talked about person this game, and that wouldn't be a terrible lynch either if it came to that

also while i was initially reading pzelda as villagery because his posting was too awkward, other people who actually knew him were saying otherwise so that was trending down

but i didn't have as much reason to go there or anywhere else, barto was the strongest wolfread i had apart from private tinfoils which were coming in and out of style throughout the phase

where?

and why was monty trending up?

if you explained it yday, just say so and I can dig it up on my own

merl1n
12-08-2019, 17:44
0. Tracker is almost as mafiatized a role as roleblocker.
1. There was no reason for Choxorn to make that claim in this gamestate.
2. Despite a tracker claim there's little reason to expect town-Chox to resolve by nightkill because, if he were town Mafia would have many other plausible targets - whom Choxorn could point to to excuse his own survival as scum-Chox.


i read the opening rule thing after part of it got quoted to me d1, and it said powers are randomized, so my understanding is that any role can be good or bad. i dont understand why you think #1 here? everyone had him and egix as the two ppl that looked the worst, and he had clarifying information potentially on both ppl

#2 also seems wrong bc if hes not killed and we narrow it down to only 1 bad left he is incredibly strong as a role. so he either has to clear ppl as bad or bads have to kill him or risk getting caught

with regards to #3, investigative seems fine but not blocking??? he can either catch a bad if good or has to target in who we want him to target as bad and be accountable for target selection/result

merl1n
12-08-2019, 17:48
tracker is the investigative role i play w/ the most in irl games bc no one likes cops. it's rlly weak early in game but rlly strong with most of the bads dead. i actually kind of think chox might be good for the claim bc as bad it means he never wins when making that claim and not dying

ladd
12-08-2019, 17:48
Can you explain what you mean? What does an Empoof NK have to do with Chox specifically being mafia?



empoof is a strong player, but in this game there are other strong players who are also villas

if chox is a villa, empoof didn't have the best EoD so it'd be weird to kill him over someone like zack or gh (who I personally thought was gonna get attacked tonight)

Insaner
12-08-2019, 17:48
Where are you seeing a loss of conviction? Am I just completely missing something here?
In the post I quoted, lol.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 17:48
vote: egix

Cuthillius
12-08-2019, 17:49
also @ ladd, i'm not going to quote specific posts of mine because i don't think that's really going to help anything

is less a "i did this specific thing" than a "i'm playing outside of my typical wolf range" in a fair number of ways and i'm disappointed people like gh in particular aren't picking up on that where i'd expect them to than a "i'm objectively super villagery"

in particular: i'm terrible at motivating myself to play as a wolf unless there's good reason to

if the game looks quite winnable/i'm widely villageread OR i have wolfmates i know and trust

i can easily outpost my village self if i need to in terms of general wim, whether that's length or frequency or intensity

if none of that is the case, well

i typically post like a wet paper bag pretty quickly

granted, if there's a four-wolf team that's perhaps not the most compelling argument but it's very definitely a thing

furthermore

this is sort of a two-headed point

number one, i bussed in some unfortunate places many years ago and the reputation has managed to stick with me for a long time since i've renounced the practice in almost all cases

if i did so in this particular game i'd be setting myself up perfectly for loads of fun in that department

number two as such my wolf game is typically to try to outvillage the villagers, which i actually manage surprisingly frequently, and then convert, which i don't

but i typically go out of my way not to bus and to sort of poke the game in different directions

which, let's be honest, hasn't really happened this game

i've been pretty passive and not expecting anyone to listen to me or trying to make them, but not in a dejected sort of way like i've given up?

iunno

it's a thing

Insaner
12-08-2019, 17:51
empoof is a strong player, but in this game there are other strong players who are also villas

if chox is a villa, empoof didn't have the best EoD so it'd be weird to kill him over someone like zack or gh (who I personally thought was gonna get attacked tonight)
Zack said he was gonna be busy on N1. GH was somewhat wolfread by a few people and so were you to an even bigger extent. I think Empoof was the best NK from a purely lolspk standpoint.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 17:52
can ppl explain reads on logic?

i thought he was good bc of his read on ladd, but with ladd probably being good now, logics posts look pretty suspect

Cuthillius
12-08-2019, 17:52
where?

and why was monty trending up?

if you explained it yday, just say so and I can dig it up on my own

gh's wall shortly beforehand

not like a top wolf read but


Empoof is gut mafia for me. Can't really explain it now. Kill me tonight if you don't want me to flesh this out please.

monty was trending up because i didn't find anything objectionable about his posts after the initial one i took issue with and the homesiters were all saying he was rather villagery

Egix
12-08-2019, 17:53
Who were the voters on me besides Zelda, Bart, and Cuth?

Oh that's right, I remembered wrong.

It was actually this: I thought that {Fable, Logic} ({town, town} both then and now) was an overall purer wagon than {Zelda, Bart, Cuth} which I had as {null-town, null, null-scum} at the time.

Cuthillius
12-08-2019, 17:54
oh and i think someone asked why i was associating gh and emp v/w possibilities

because of that post

the dichotomy seemed strange

and i have a lot of respect, typically, for gh's post

but it was out of place compared to the rest of the thread and i thought it seemed like the sort of post i could see wolf!gh coming in with as a not incredibly risky hot take potentially

Montmorency
12-08-2019, 17:54
i read the opening rule thing after part of it got quoted to me d1, and it said powers are randomized, so my understanding is that any role can be good or bad. i dont understand why you think #1 here? everyone had him and egix as the two ppl that looked the worst, and he had clarifying information potentially on both ppl

It's very good timing if you're mafia.


#2 also seems wrong bc if hes not killed and we narrow it down to only 1 bad left he is incredibly strong as a role. so he either has to clear ppl as bad or bads have to kill him or risk getting caught

Dangerous mindset. You have no idea who else would be left alive at F3. Like I said, I know Chox knows how to go deep.


with regards to #3, investigative seems fine but not blocking??? he can either catch a bad if good or has to target in who we want him to target as bad and be accountable for target selection/result

Depends on the role assortment. You know anything about that?


tracker is the investigative role i play w/ the most in irl games bc no one likes cops. it's rlly weak early in game but rlly strong with most of the bads dead. i actually kind of think chox might be good for the claim bc as bad it means he never wins when making that claim and not dying

You can't think of any worlds in which Choxorn makes it to F3 and mislynches? Mafia control the night kill after all.

ladd
12-08-2019, 17:55
Oh that's right, I remembered wrong.

It was actually this: I thought that {Fable, Logic} ({town, town} both then and now) was an overall purer wagon than {Zelda, Bart, Cuth} which I had as {null-town, null, null-scum} at the time.

you mean this was the reason for sticking to me and not voting monty instead?

Egix
12-08-2019, 17:56
Still reading up but pls don't listen to Monty on Chox lmao

Why not?

Insaner
12-08-2019, 17:56
if the game looks quite winnable/i'm widely villageread OR i have wolfmates i know and trust

Like GH?

ladd
12-08-2019, 17:56
can ppl explain reads on logic?

i thought he was good bc of his read on ladd, but with ladd probably being good now, logics posts look pretty suspect

GH has a ~100% read on Logic afaik and he says he is a villager

I also don't really mind logic's posts anyway

merl1n
12-08-2019, 17:56
i think general is good

he had a very different read on me than the rest of the game and i think bads are reluctant to go against grain like that. he also voted for barto, and then followed empoof onto choxorn, before going to pzelda, when he could have stayed on choxorn and had the accountability b on empoof

Insaner
12-08-2019, 17:57
Why not?
Oh I don't know, maybe because the wolves HAVE TO kill him if he is real or get roasted?

Csargo
12-08-2019, 17:58
In the post I quoted, lol.

I'm just not seeing what you're seeing apparently, I don't see a loss of conviction in that post.


I can see where Zack would make the comparison to my DS vote in the last game where I was mafia against him, but you're forgetting the part a little later on in the day where I independently iso'd Zelda, picked out a post that I found to be a bad look, and signed off on the lynch based on my own reading.

This is the scummiest thing I've seen GH post all game tbh. I find it hard to believe GH would vote a scum partner so early in the game, from my experience with him, but I haven't played with him in a while. It's possible I guess, but I don't think it's likely imo.

ladd
12-08-2019, 17:58
oh and i think someone asked why i was associating gh and emp v/w possibilities

because of that post

the dichotomy seemed strange

and i have a lot of respect, typically, for gh's post

but it was out of place compared to the rest of the thread and i thought it seemed like the sort of post i could see wolf!gh coming in with as a not incredibly risky hot take potentially

alrighty, you said it depended on "some stuff"

what did you mean?

merl1n
12-08-2019, 17:59
It's very good timing if you're mafia.



Dangerous mindset. You have no idea who else would be left alive at F3. Like I said, I know Chox knows how to go deep.



Depends on the role assortment. You know anything about that?



You can't think of any worlds in which Choxorn makes it to F3 and mislynches? Mafia control the night kill after all.

no, i dont think a claimed tracker that has reason to be suspected ever wins in a f3 as bad. itd mean he had to avoid catching the final bad probably multiple times and the mental gymnastic hoops and sheer # of ppl hed have to clear would be impossible. blocking a potential strong role for town seems not worth it at all, even if he could be bad

ladd
12-08-2019, 17:59
vote: dyachei

Cuthillius
12-08-2019, 17:59
Like GH?

eh, not if he peaced out entirely for the majority of the first day

but yes he fits that category more than most people in this game lol

Egix
12-08-2019, 18:00
you mean this was the reason for sticking to me and not voting monty instead?

Yeah sry

It wasn't until Monty questioned me that I was reminded of what I had been thinking at the time.
Back when you first asked me, I was trying to recall why I had done what I did but hadn't quite got there.

Montmorency
12-08-2019, 18:00
Oh I don't know, maybe because the wolves HAVE TO kill him if he is real or get roasted?

Why? What if you, Zack, merlin, and GH are all town?

What happens if it's F3 with me, GH, and Choxorn? Who do I vote? Oops!


Zack said he was gonna be busy on N1. GH was somewhat wolfread by a few people and so were you to an even bigger extent. I think Empoof was the best NK from a purely lolspk standpoint.

What is lolspk?


This is the scummiest thing I've seen GH post all game tbh. I find it hard to believe GH would vote a scum partner so early in the game, from my experience with him, but I haven't played with him in a while. It's possible I guess, but I don't think it's likely imo.

Remember Chess game? GH basically committed suicide to avoid bussing Logic. Not sure how to extrapolate though.

Cuthillius
12-08-2019, 18:01
alrighty, you said it depended on "some stuff"

what did you mean?

if i remember correctly, i was figuring the lynch would clear some things up there

because there was likely to be at least a little contrast between the viewpoints of the thread

as it is that happened and gh swung more towards the center of consensus

which i think is fairly resolving for that thread

Montmorency
12-08-2019, 18:04
no, i dont think a claimed tracker that has reason to be suspected ever wins in a f3 as bad. itd mean he had to avoid catching the final bad probably multiple times and the mental gymnastic hoops and sheer # of ppl hed have to clear would be impossible. blocking a potential strong role for town seems not worth it at all, even if he could be bad

I think you're making a big mistake thinking this logic is safe. Remember, you were pretty wrong about EOD1 too. :shrug:

Egix
12-08-2019, 18:04
Oh I don't know, maybe because the wolves HAVE TO kill him if he is real or get roasted?

All right all right keep your shirt on

Insaner
12-08-2019, 18:05
Why? What if you, Zack, merlin, and GH are all town?

What happens if it's F3 with me, GH, and Choxorn? Who do I vote? Oops!



What is lolspk?



Remember Chess game? GH basically committed suicide to avoid bussing Logic. Not sure how to extrapolate though.
You obviously vote Choxo if it gets this far WTH. The point is if he's town, he isn't supposed to get to F3.

Spk=strong player kill.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 18:06
I think you're making a big mistake thinking this logic is safe. Remember, you were pretty wrong about EOD1 too. :shrug:

i had bad reads on d1, but it doesnt mean i dont have a lot of exp playing with trackers in irl games and how to handle them. ur not considering that hes going to have a lot of night actions between now and a final 3 to either catch bads, not catch bads, or have to explain away not catching bads. i think ur concerned about something that is basically impossible to happen

ladd
12-08-2019, 18:07
Yeah sry

It wasn't until Monty questioned me that I was reminded of what I had been thinking at the time.
Back when you first asked me, I was trying to recall why I had done what I did but hadn't quite got there.

this is villagery, I am liking your posts today a lot more :thumbsup:

can you link me a wolf game if possible?

Egix
12-08-2019, 18:08
What is lolspk?

Remember Chess game? GH basically committed suicide to avoid bussing Logic. Not sure how to extrapolate though.

- SPK = Strong Player Kill. Lol is as in 'lolwilves' I can only presume.

- From your recollection, how towny did Logic appear to be in that game?

Csargo
12-08-2019, 18:11
Remember Chess game? GH basically committed suicide to avoid bussing Logic. Not sure how to extrapolate though.

Yeah, it's difficult.

ladd
12-08-2019, 18:12
reading el barto now and it seems pretty empty?

can you explain this read, dya?

I don't think barto iso was empty at all

Montmorency
12-08-2019, 18:15
You obviously vote Choxo if it gets this far WTH. The point is if he's town, he isn't supposed to get to F3.

Spk=strong player kill.

I'm not giving GH the satisfaction of that classical victory! You're gonna get us killed, insaner.


i had bad reads on d1, but it doesnt mean i dont have a lot of exp playing with trackers in irl games and how to handle them. ur not considering that hes going to have a lot of night actions between now and a final 3 to either catch bads, not catch bads, or have to explain away not catching bads. i think ur concerned about something that is basically impossible to happen

Well, I've done what I can. Let's see how the chips fall.


- SPK = Strong Player Kill. Lol is as in 'lolwilves' I can only presume.

- From your recollection, how towny did Logic appear to be in that game?

You can read the game, it's called Chess Mafia (full disclosure: I solo-scummed to victory). Pizza had some kind of soul read on Logic based on differences from the previous game's performance, something to do with passive-aggressiveness. He was annihilated, and GH and Zack sacrificed themselves trying to save him. Now apparently GH has taken over as the knower of Logic meta, and this game was two years ago, so I figure we can defer to his judgement. I would like to see Logic comment more though, especially now that he's only playing one game.

Egix
12-08-2019, 18:16
can you link me a wolf game if possible?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80920

My most recent one

merl1n
12-08-2019, 18:17
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80920

My most recent one

how did the cop get lynched day one

Insaner
12-08-2019, 18:18
I'm not giving GH the satisfaction of that classical victory! You're gonna get us killed, insaner.

So you are going to mislynch our tracker earlier than that? I'm curious how that works out in your head, honestly.

Montmorency
12-08-2019, 18:20
So you are going to mislynch our tracker earlier than that? I'm curious how that works out in your head, honestly.

I said from tomorrow onward, bloods.

If only you understood how pro-town I'm being.

Egix
12-08-2019, 18:21
how did the cop get lynched day one

tl;dr he was quickhammered by another townie

Insaner
12-08-2019, 18:22
I said from tomorrow onward, bloods.

If only you understood how pro-town I'm being.
We should join our forces and lynch GH today tbh.

Can't give him that satisfaction amirite

merl1n
12-08-2019, 18:25
egix is a lot more serious and content heavy in this other game im reading pretty much immediately

ladd
12-08-2019, 18:25
well your wolf game isn't as bad as you are claiming it to be from a quick skim

sorry if I am asking you a barrage of questions (I am trying to decide if I want to stone wall your lynch), but why exactly do you have no read on me/zack/gh? and why ar eyou nto trying to get one?

for example you had me as scum yday and now today you are sheeping consensus on me without understaing the reasons, why?

Egix
12-08-2019, 18:30
You can read the game, it's called Chess Mafia (full disclosure: I solo-scummed to victory). Pizza had some kind of soul read on Logic based on differences from the previous game's performance, something to do with passive-aggressiveness. He was annihilated, and GH and Zack sacrificed themselves trying to save him. Now apparently GH has taken over as the knower of Logic meta, and this game was two years ago, so I figure we can defer to his judgement. I would like to see Logic comment more though, especially now that he's only playing one game.

I was aware of it from scrolling down in this same subforum, I don't really think I'll have time to read it tho.
I didn't know you were another one of his buddies, I was just assuming you had been town in it :rolleyes:

Logic
12-08-2019, 18:32
I'm at my second job this weekend, and thus I haven't read much beyond the flips. But the wagon composition tells me Ladd probably isn't scum.

Will post more later, but that's my updated reads for now.

ladd
12-08-2019, 18:37
I'm town. I don't have any powers (apart from my voice and vote ofc)

:inquisitive:

ladd
12-08-2019, 18:39
also I let the tinfoil theories run for a bit cause it's fun, but gh is ~always a villager

only small detail giving me pause is that he should have me as clear but besides that I don't really think he is a wolf

don't let the #fear get the better of you

Egix
12-08-2019, 18:40
well your wolf game isn't as bad as you are claiming it to be from a quick skim

sorry if I am asking you a barrage of questions (I am trying to decide if I want to stone wall your lynch), but why exactly do you have no read on me/zack/gh? and why ar eyou nto trying to get one?

for example you had me as scum yday and now today you are sheeping consensus on me without understaing the reasons, why?

Well er, thanks I guess? I'm probably pretty biased here but I think that anyone who knows me well would have easily determined that I was scum...

The problem is that this game is going a lot faster than I was anticipating, and atp I'm feeling like I can't go back to reading older posts from this game without missing out on a lot of more recent stuff.

Hmmmmmm you've got me on that one. So what are those reasons?

ladd
12-08-2019, 18:42
Well er, thanks I guess? I'm probably pretty biased here but I think that anyone who knows me well would have easily determined that I was scum...

The problem is that this game is going a lot faster than I was anticipating, and atp I'm feeling like I can't go back to reading older posts from this game without missing out on a lot of more recent stuff.

Hmmmmmm you've got me on that one. So what are those reasons?

zack buried barto

I pushed both pzelda and barto

gh has been villagery and voted zelda/barto

Egix
12-08-2019, 18:43
:inquisitive:

Just to be safe ;)

merl1n
12-08-2019, 18:43
I'm at my second job this weekend, and thus I haven't read much beyond the flips. But the wagon composition tells me Ladd probably isn't scum.

Will post more later, but that's my updated reads for now.

id like to hear this logic (xD)

if anything, the fact that the bads didn't vote for ladd despite him being the #3 vote getter should make him more likely bad himself at a superficial look

merl1n
12-08-2019, 18:44
the known bads i should say (barto/pzelda)

Egix
12-08-2019, 18:44
zack buried barto

I pushed both pzelda and barto

gh has been villagery and voted zelda/barto

:rtwyes:

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 18:45
I'm always town here for two reasons: First of all, while I wasn't on Barto quite as early as Zack, I too quickly pointed out a discrepancy in one of his earliest comments and would have explored it further were the f3 in my other game (now concluded) not about to start. Secondly, I consistently voted for and pushed the two mafiosi pretty much all day yesterday, always ranking Barto ahead of Monty in my personal "lynch preference" list, jumping to PZelda, independently isoing PZelda and providing further ammunition to the fire, and ultimately ending up on him. I briefly switched to Chox, yes, but that was mostly out of deference to Empoof trying for some wagonomics and I was always intending to end back up on PZelda, as I think I made pretty clear over the course of EOD1. I will tolerate this tinfoiling of me for exactly the remainder of this dayphase, but once Egix flips mafia then it needs to stop.

ladd
12-08-2019, 18:45
Just to be safe ;)

did you go back and recheck or rememebr it by heart?

I don't wanna go too much into detail on this one but it's actually been bugging for a bit and it should be fien since it's in the OP

merl1n
12-08-2019, 18:45
idk. reading this other game egix linked, it felt like he faked a lot more content in it than he would have if he was a bad this game

ladd
12-08-2019, 18:46
I will tolerate this tinfoiling of me for exactly the remainder of this dayphase, but once Egix flips mafia then it needs to stop.

you are really that convinced he is a wolf uh

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 18:47
Re: Egix

As far as I'm concerned, he is looking behaviorally better today, yes, but the PZelda list I quoted earlier today from D1 where he lists four townreads, two of whom have already flipped town, is almost certain to contain a partner and I think it's more likely that it's PZelda than Merl1n (the other unflipped townread).

merl1n
12-08-2019, 18:48
Re: Egix

As far as I'm concerned, he is looking behaviorally better today, yes, but the PZelda list I quoted earlier today from D1 where he lists four townreads, two of whom have already flipped town, is almost certain to contain a partner and I think it's more likely that it's PZelda than Merl1n (the other unflipped townread).

think that's a poor assumption that a bad has to include a fellow bad in their good reads

(admittedly its part of why im voting egix xD)

merl1n
12-08-2019, 18:50
general, skim his posts in that game egix linked? i think there different than here, more serious and more contentful. is giving me a little pause, but idk how much to weight that given 1) he linked and chose the game himself 2) idk how much ppls play differs from site to site/game to game in this setting

Insaner
12-08-2019, 18:50
I'm always town here for two reasons: First of all, while I wasn't on Barto quite as early as Zack, I too quickly pointed out a discrepancy in one of his earliest comments and would have explored it further were the f3 in my other game (now concluded) not about to start. Secondly, I consistently voted for and pushed the two mafiosi pretty much all day yesterday, always ranking Barto ahead of Monty in my personal "lynch preference" list, jumping to PZelda, independently isoing PZelda and providing further ammunition to the fire, and ultimately ending up on him. I briefly switched to Chox, yes, but that was mostly out of deference to Empoof trying for some wagonomics and I was always intending to end back up on PZelda, as I think I made pretty clear over the course of EOD1. I will tolerate this tinfoiling of me for exactly the remainder of this dayphase, but once Egix flips mafia then it needs to stop.
Lynch a wolf today, or perish.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 18:51
Lynch a wolf today, or perish.

thats dumb. ppl can be wrong and still be good.

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 18:53
general, skim his posts in that game egix linked? i think there different than here, more serious and more contentful. is giving me a little pause, but idk how much to weight that given 1) he linked and chose the game himself 2) idk how much ppls play differs from site to site/game to game in this setting

I'm about to head out and won't be able to read it in detail for the next few hours, but I don't really ascribe much to any differences there might be simply because of the environment (it was specifically a newbie game and this one has a lot of experienced players who know each other well) and the phaselengths are very different. Easier to fake content if you're doing so over a period of 10 days and have time to think about it compared to 48/24.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 18:53
i thought dyachei was maybe good because of her hard attack on pzelda and fact that like only ppl she asked questions to were the two known bads. maybe that's a little too on point u could argue

Insaner
12-08-2019, 18:54
Re: Egix

As far as I'm concerned, he is looking behaviorally better today, yes, but the PZelda list I quoted earlier today from D1 where he lists four townreads, two of whom have already flipped town, is almost certain to contain a partner and I think it's more likely that it's PZelda than Merl1n (the other unflipped townread).
This is a fallacy.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 18:55
thats dumb. ppl can be wrong and still be good.
Call me dumb, then.

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 18:55
Lynch a wolf today, or perish.

I'm glad to know that my pushing of two flipped mafia in one phase is enough to buy me exactly one day of goodwill. :wings:

ladd
12-08-2019, 18:55
talk to me about:

newyin

dya

cuth

soemone has a strong read on any of them?

Insaner
12-08-2019, 18:56
I'm glad to know that my pushing of two flipped mafia in one phase is enough to buy me exactly one day of goodwill. :wings:
Good. I am not usually this generous.

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 18:56
This is a fallacy.

There's other wagonomics-related reasons too, but I'm annoyed at this point and just wanted to get my thoughts down. Will get more into detail about it when I get back but I really don't deserve the treatment that I'm getting from exactly you right now considering how my D1 and would greatly appreciate it if you recognized my contributions and started looking elsewhere.

ladd
12-08-2019, 18:58
gh has a point that egix just makes the most sense from every PoV

also it does look like he doesn't care about who the wolves are

but I find some of the things he is saying kinda villagery?

we shall see

merl1n
12-08-2019, 18:59
i have a kind of uneasy setting that im getting set up for a mislynch, but its hard 2 tell bc i was pretty wrong on d1 and its understandable to have doubts

merl1n
12-08-2019, 19:00
Call me dumb, then.

no. id call ur actions dumb, but not you xP

ladd
12-08-2019, 19:00
Choxorn

I know you cliamed tracker but I find it weird that you admitted that yday you played like crap, considering that imo your posts were whatever and you simply were inactive

why did you think you played like crap besides inactivity which is perfectly explainable by real life?

who are the wolves?

merl1n
12-08-2019, 19:01
talk to me about:

newyin

dya

cuth

soemone has a strong read on any of them?

I think newyn is good! maybe its dumb reasoning but i feel it. can try 2 pull up posts

ladd
12-08-2019, 19:03
unvote

should be back for another round of posting in abit

after that I am full of meetings tomorrow so I'll barely be able to post probably, but will try to sneak in for the last couple of hours of the day if manage

rest of the week should be a bit better

merl1n
12-08-2019, 19:22
newyn stuff

1) i liked his opening post, and the back and forth w chox. was very casual and easy, find that hard 2 do as bad

2) he expressed paranoia of me with a twist, that i was secretly some experienced player. i liked him thinking that way bc as bad hed know i was good and would take me at face value (fwiw i am pretty exp just not on forums)

3) he voted el barto but only bc he liked the ppl on the el barto wagon. this is probably my biggest reason he's good. he gets no credit if el barto is ever confirmed bad bc he just hopped on due to his good reads being on him. i think bads handle that diff

4) he pushed back on me when i called him good for the wagon formation accountability dodge. said he was just lazy and wld do it as either alignment. think bads wouldnt tell me not 2 read them as good for voting a partner

5) he feels consistently at ease after 2 bads die, think itd be different if he was bad with his team going kaboom

ladd
12-08-2019, 19:47
newyn stuff

1) i liked his opening post, and the back and forth w chox. was very casual and easy, find that hard 2 do as bad

2) he expressed paranoia of me with a twist, that i was secretly some experienced player. i liked him thinking that way bc as bad hed know i was good and would take me at face value (fwiw i am pretty exp just not on forums)

3) he voted el barto but only bc he liked the ppl on the el barto wagon. this is probably my biggest reason he's good. he gets no credit if el barto is ever confirmed bad bc he just hopped on due to his good reads being on him. i think bads handle that diff

4) he pushed back on me when i called him good for the wagon formation accountability dodge. said he was just lazy and wld do it as either alignment. think bads wouldnt tell me not 2 read them as good for voting a partner

5) he feels consistently at ease after 2 bads die, think itd be different if he was bad with his team going kaboom

alrighty, thanks

I am not sure how much of this is super indicative (in particular I think 4 means nothing and it s actually kinda wolfy) but I do kinda dig point #2

merl1n
12-08-2019, 19:57
alrighty, thanks

I am not sure how much of this is super indicative (in particular I think 4 means nothing and it s actually kinda wolfy) but I do kinda dig point #2

i think the way #3 played out is v good for him, if u read back through that

i paid the most attn to ppl who didnt end on a confirmed bad in my reread (newyn, egix, choxorn, logic) bc it makes sense for a starting point

dyachei
12-08-2019, 20:14
dyachei why did you ask this question?

because I didn't know who el-barto was and he mentioned earlier in the game he had played with me before


can you explain this read, dya?

I don't think barto iso was empty at all
I read the first half of it before it was 5 minutes to EOD and had to stop. Empty meaning very little content. Felt like a lot of talking about nothing

Logic
12-08-2019, 20:16
id like to hear this logic (xD)

if anything, the fact that the bads didn't vote for ladd despite him being the #3 vote getter should make him more likely bad himself at a superficial look
Quick answer:
Scum almost certainly had a village counterwagon at some point. You should be looking more closely at the D1 Ladd voters, especially when he was in serious contention.

It's not foolproof, but the odds are slim that Ladd is also scum.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 20:19
Quick answer:
Scum almost certainly had a village counterwagon at some point. You should be looking more closely at the D1 Ladd voters, especially when he was in serious contention.

It's not foolproof, but the odds are slim that Ladd is also scum.
I think merl1n's point is that they in fact didn't.

dyachei
12-08-2019, 20:20
need a live playerlist if anyone has one.

think barto's push on monty looks fairly not w/w so I'm comfortable keeping monty in my top towns

I think zack still looks good, too, for his d1 and his read of barto. I think he's fallen off a bit today, but I like yesterday enough he can stay there, too.

I saw some of the interactions merl1n posted for ladd and agree ladd probably not a wolf, either. And the work merl1n is putting in at this stage looks pretty good

Insaner
12-08-2019, 20:21
Alive 14/17:
1. Montmorency
2. Csargo
4. Choxorn
5. Zack
6. GeneralHankerchief
7. Logic
8. Dyachei
10. Fable
11. ladd
12. Cuthillius
13. Egix
14. Newyn
16. Insaner
17. merl1n

Dead 3/17:
9. Pzelda, Princess, Mafia, lynched D1.
15. Empoof, Priest, Town, died N1.
3. El Barto, Diviner, Mafia, died N1.

ladd
12-08-2019, 20:22
agree merl1n is posting well today

what you think abiut cuth dya?

dyachei
12-08-2019, 20:25
Alive 14/17:
1. Montmorency
2. Csargo
4. Choxorn
5. Zack
6. GeneralHankerchief
7. Logic
8. Dyachei
10. Fable
11. ladd
12. Cuthillius
13. Egix
14. Newyn
16. Insaner
17. merl1n

Dead 3/17:
9. Pzelda, Princess, Mafia, lynched D1.
15. Empoof, Priest, Town, died N1.
3. El Barto, Diviner, Mafia, died N1.

thanks insaner

Town
Montmorency
Zack
ladd
insaner

lean town
fable
merl1n
GH
logic

null
Chox
csargo
cuth
egix
newyn

lean wolf

wolf

I obviously have some work to do today to work out what to do with my null section. And yeah, i'm aware of chox' claim

Insaner
12-08-2019, 20:25
It looks like you can't save more than 7 multiquotes at a time here? uhhhh

dyachei
12-08-2019, 20:25
agree merl1n is posting well today

what you think abiut cuth dya?

he's someone I consistently have a hard time reading and I usually let others do it. I'll be looking at his posts hopefully in a bit.

merl1n
12-08-2019, 20:30
can you elaborate on your logic read dyachei?

dyachei
12-08-2019, 20:33
I'm still reading through the thread, I've had a busy few days, but my impressions so far:

Zack's opening was strong, but that's to be expected, Zack's a strong player. I'm hesitant to prematurely say he's town, but everything points in that direction. He spews sunshine and rainbows.

Empoof seems in a similar vein to Zack, nothing gives me pause about their play so far. Though I'm not familiar with Empoof's play in general, but from my perspective it's all been good so far.

I'm okay with merl1n, Insaner, and Logic overall. I don't particularly think Insaner's "I'm townier, answer my question." was productive, but to each their own. Other than that I haven't read anything from Insaner that would make me think negatively. merl1n just seems pure and engaged, it's refreshing, nothing negative to say about any of their contributions honestly. Logic's opening was meh, but his recent postings were pretty good I thought, and that makes me think he's town.

I agree with Zack's meta read of Barto's behavior, generally I'd expect Barto to vote Insaner there. It probably doesn't mean much, but it seemed cautious to me, which is unexpected from Barto. I might be reading too much into it though.

GH's opening bothered me initially, a bit generic maybe? or just fell flat with me I'm not sure exactly how to describe it. Plus his interaction with Zack about Insaner seemed odd to me. I generally agree with what he posted this morning, so I'm a bit torn overall about how to feel.

Monty is an enigma. I'm not sure how to feel about him currently.

I don't have much else, but I'll continue reading.

tried to grab the quotes that have substance from csargo. But like this entire post is hedgy af. He gives himself an out at every turn.


My reads on people who I don't have much or any experience playing with are extremely tentative. I'm not terribly confident nor is my track record terribly good in such cases. I have trouble reading generally in mafia games, so there's that. What I'm trying to say is I'm bad :sweatdrop:

he even talks about that here


Vote: El Barto

good vote though


Don't feel like that's a great reason to remove Monty from the list, if you want to be thorough.

but again, he's afraid to clear people


Feel like Egix or Choxorn should be lynched today. Choxorn's hard to read in my experience, and I don't know anything about Egix. I read Choxorn's iso yesterday and wasn't impressed I guess you'd say and what you've posted of Egix doesn't look good.

I'm not sure what to make of ladd at this point. I want to give them some amount of credit for putting the damning vote on zelda, but looking at the vote count at the end makes that hard for me. I wouldn't vote them anytime soon though.

Felt like merl1n was good on my initial read through, and haven't really seen anything to change my mind so far other than being off the two main wagons yesterday.

Don't know anything about Newyn and nothing has stood out to me about them so far.

I'm 90% certain Logic is town. I'm pretty alright with saying you, Zack, and Insaner are town.

I feel like Cuth is playing different from what I remember about their play, so it's up in the air.

I have no read on Dya, other than zelda vote is good.

Montmorency (Pzelda,)
4 El Barto (Zack, Cuth, Csargo, Monty)
5 PZelda (Insaner, Dya, GH, Fable, ladd)
1 Newyn (Choxorn)
3 Ladd (Logic, Egix, merl1n)
1 Insaner (El Barto)
2 Choxorn (Empoof, Newyn)

Here are today's reads and they feel pretty...safe? like it's not saying a lot to me in either direction


I'm just not seeing what you're seeing apparently, I don't see a loss of conviction in that post.



This is the scummiest thing I've seen GH post all game tbh. I find it hard to believe GH would vote a scum partner so early in the game, from my experience with him, but I haven't played with him in a while. It's possible I guess, but I don't think it's likely imo.

But here he's starting to get spicy with GH and I'm not sure how I feel about it.

I think overall maybe a slight scum lean? feels like he was trying to give himself an out on the barto read (though he did vote there later) and he's afraid to town read people

dyachei
12-08-2019, 20:34
can you elaborate on your logic read dyachei?

don't think GH would lie about it as either alignment. So it's probably just real

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 20:36
don't think GH would lie about it as either alignment. So it's probably just real

I just lied about it the game we just got out of though...?

dyachei
12-08-2019, 20:39
I just lied about it the game we just got out of though...?

I must have missed that because I thought you just *didn't* lie about it there

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 20:40
I must have missed that because I thought you just *didn't* lie about it there

I called him mafia and pushed for his (mis)lynch in the hydra game.

Insaner
12-08-2019, 20:42
Don't mind me, this took a while to fetch so I'm just saving it here for my own perusal so it doesn't get lost :hide:



Vote: Csargo


Sup everyone.

Think there might be a phone interface through Tapatalk or something? Or check skins/styles in a dropdown list at the very bottom of the page, the default should be something like "TheGuild" or "STW" or something, idk, it's been like a decade since I've changed skins here.

Barto defense is interesting because "being busier in another game" (which I don't dispute) doesn't stop him from making a funny vote as opposed to talking about his suspicion.


Also to honor this site's heritage I'm going to exclusively use townspeak.


Calling things town/mafia/scum etc instead of "w*lf/v*llager" etc.


Barto claims being busy/distracted as a reason why he didn't just drop a vote on you for saying you were going to phonepost (him shading people for that here is NAI; long story)

If we accept this explanation at face value, then think about which takes longer: dropping a simple vote, or posting what he posted instead in response?


I don't mind Insaner so far.


oh boy here we go again

Talk to me about why? Seems like he's just kind of easing into the flow of things and trying to dig into something he's not sure about.


Checking in, haven't read since last night, won't be able to until tomorrow. Apologies.


Morning.

Skimmed a bit, haven't reread in depth (hope to do that before EOD), but here's some of my takes so far:

Barto/Monty wagons are not particularly spicy but I guess not really surprising considering this playerset. Between the two of them I think Barto has a higher chance of flipping mafia due to his start and Monty seemingly being whimsical Monty-self instead of really trying to accomplish anything in particular in this game. This is more of a "I like Monty for town" read than "I like Barto for scum" read, and while I recognize that I haven't played with either in literal years, I think the old meta still holds.

Fable can be town just because he's Very Obviously being a brat with the way he's treating the thread/game right now, I don't mean that in a particularly bad way, it's just like he doesn't feel obligated to actually try and put on a performance, and that's generally indicative of Town!Fable from my experience. I don't think this is a result of the low activity of the game, either, it's still a quality playerlist and he'd know he'd have to do stuff to fit in as mafia despite the low volume so far. Furthermore, I see that he just recently dropped a random townread on me that's kind of against the grain, and if it's for the reasons I suspect it is, then it's 100% something that Fable would do as town.

dya gets a day pass, I expect she'll be more active on D2, as will I.

I actually like Logic's three posts. Want to see more, but not worried yet.

Zack is... tentatively in my town. This has nothing to do with how he's approached my slot. It's more related to the fact of how he's dug into things that have caught his attention and hammered away at them until he's satisfied and refused to let up on things. There's less :daisy:posting than I'd expect, but I don't really think that's alignment-indicative in this environment. My main goal here is to further reinforce his townreads so that the mafia don't kill him at night for fear that he'll be protected by a doc or jailkeeper or something and be more likely to move on me instead. :book2: (but seriously, I think he's probably ok here)

Those are the takes that have stood out most to me so far, I don't really have any mafia yet beyond potentially Barto. Will make another pass later on today. If I haven't talked about someone here, it's because their posts haven't really left much impression on me. Yes, that includes you, Empoof.

I'm glad people are enjoying the emotes.


> "This is more of a 'I like Monty for town' read than a 'I like Barto for scum' read"
> GH is totally holding onto that Barto scumread amirite


I don't know what this is supposed to mean.


Confirming this.

Taking a few hours off to get my head straight and then I'll dive in here.


Logic's town, consider this locked in.

Chox... might be mafia, but I'm not confident enough to go there today I don't think, and I think I can get him locked in one way or the other on D2. Would prefer not going there today.

ladd seems fine, think he's a miss.

I guess Insaner can be town and it's largely for his weird gif at me earlier today moreso than anything else he's done/general temperament.

Not as sold on Merl1n town as everyone else, and it's largely for this post:



It just seems a little overdone, even for the "I'm new and this is my first game" act he's putting on. I don't doubt that this is his first game but I feel like he's putting it on a little too much.

Empoof is gut mafia for me. Can't really explain it now. Kill me tonight if you don't want me to flesh this out please.

Guess I'm voting with my two large posts as a guideline. Anyone I haven't talked about I'm probably ambivalent about.


If I'm to put this in a readslist I think it goes something like:

Logic
Fable

Zack
Insaner

Monty
ladd

--- town line ---

Csargo
dya
Newyn
Pzelda
Cuth
Egix

Empoof
Choxorn

--- null/idk line ---

merl1n

El Barto


Not actually sure how much I like El Barto at the bottom but I don't really have the energy to try to find a different non-Monty lynch right now in my null territory.

Vote: El Barto


Ok.

Vote: PZelda


Honestly, I'd probably describe it as Not Your Town Game and then go into the process of describing your town game.


Straight up, I'm a bit annoyed that Insaner was like "I HAVE A PERFECT READ ON PZELDA AND HE IS ALWAYS MAFIA HERE" and then immediately walked it back to "well I've read him right 2 out of 3 games" but whatever, riding with this for now.


Ah no, Voxx and I were DMing about something at the time and he asked me to do one. I forgot I even made it until this very moment.


Consider the alliance sealed.


EST+1 I believe, maybe 2.

Last I was aware he was in South America.


I've read the pzelda iso for myself and am officially signing off on that wagon beyond "I'll sheep Insaner on it". My main problem can be best summarized by this post:



There is no attempt at following up on this. There is no hint of an attempt at following up on this. There's clarifications, a good bit about talking about MU people and meta and anything besides actual reads and takes on people, but there's very little actual solving spirit, and in my experience people making statements similar to the bolded and going absolutely nowhere with them is a pretty reliable scumtell.


ISOing is similar to POG, dya.

Gotta go back to the Gameroom index, click on the number of posts, and click on the person's postcount in the window that pops up. One of the sticky threads (the offsite guide) provides pictoral help.


Pretty much same.

Would feel kinda bad about Choxorn going down but that's mostly because I think I can get him with another day. Would certainly prefer him to ladd if it comes to it.


Got any mafia? Top town? Why?


Re: Choxorn

There's a concept about him on this set of communities (org, cfc, etc) called the Choxorn Line where anybody below his post count is officially labeled a slanker and anyone above him is ok.

Which is a roundabout way of saying yeah he's kind of a lowposter regardless of alignment, which is part of why I'm somewhat gun-shy on going for him today. His actual post content is mildly concerning, but the volume is not. Not yet, anyway.


Hm. Usually tally manipulation, if caught, is like instalynch material.

Think it's more likely that he just didn't see Monty's vote when he was making that?


Did you see later on where I ISO'd pzelda and started scumreading him on my own?


:stupido:

Vote: Choxorn


Here, Insaner.

Click through to read the quote within.


NAI, I think.


Give him a day, I think.

Though if it ends up being you/him then I'm going for him.


Already planning the nightkill, eh.


I'm hopping off in a couple minutes back on pzelda, FYI.


I'm gonna laugh so hard when it's Choxorn and he flips something like "Mafia N1 ONLY vig".


Vote: pzelda


pzelda > choxorn >>>>>>> el barto >> ladd

in order of preference


Looks like the cavalry arrived just in time, team. :charge:


Feeling decent. Glad to be back here.

GL, here's hoping.

dyachei
12-08-2019, 20:43
I called him mafia and pushed for his (mis)lynch in the hydra game.

Honestly, that didn't really register to me and I just reread your iso the other day lol. I was more focused on your interactions with flipped wolves

move logic to null pile then

dyachei
12-08-2019, 20:56
Yes. Are you?







Wait, who exactly are all the wolfy people going after Barto? Zack is the strongest pusher of him and you have Zack as one of your townreads.

kind of like this question from chox but I guess it could be as either alignment


Had a chance to go look back through the thread again, and yeah, it's mainly been Zack and Empoof pushing Barto, as well as ladd, (so, 2 of Insaner's townreads and 1 scumread), with a few others occasionally mentioning him (and Monty's voting for him now, of course). Not really sure why Insaner thinks Barto is spewed town by "all these wolfy people" going after him. Ladd going after Barto certainly doesn't mean he can't be scum, or that those two couldn't be scumbuddies.

he follows up with it here. I'd like to hear more from chox regarding if he still thinks ladd can be scum with barto


I don't think I can really defend how crappy I was yesterday- I'm busy IRL a lot and don't always pay enough attention and that turns into me being way too inactive.

Current thoughts: Zack is lock town, merl1n, Insaner, ladd, GH, and Fable are all likely town, lots of the thread looks somewhere between town and scum to me. Looks like lots of folks wanna lynch either me or Egix today based on how we acted yesterday, and I also thought he was suspicious yesterday- but I also tracked him doing nothing last night, which is far from clearing but is certainly a point in his favor.

Really need to read things a bit more to get a stronger idea of who's scummy, I'll get to that later but for now I need to go eat dinner.

and here we have his claim. And his town read on ladd now.

I really want more from this slot. I think the claim could come from either alignment and the change in ladd stuff is weird. But like...I can't sort it

dyachei
12-08-2019, 21:05
A couple logic posts:


I'm back. I've not read much, though I did go back to see why Empoof called me towny. It's ok reasoning, I guess. It's also brave enough to be against the grain that I'll call him lean town.

I'll read more into Cuth. I was willing to call him a villager, but P#170 makes me think otherwise.

kind of like that he at least looks willing to delve more into reading cuth


Quarter-assed sort by postcount reads

I feel like I should have a better read on Zack besides null considering he's got 60 some-odd posts. I'll be watching this one some more.

I've currently got Insaner as my top town. He's playing like he's bulletproof; questioning people left and right.

I'm sticking with my Empoof is town read until forced to reevaluate. Nothing yet tells me to rethink that.

Ladd feels like his pushes are entirely too easy, and his defenses of things feel the wrong kind of dismissive.
Vote: Ladd

See my comments regarding Zack for the same feelings towards GH.

I didn't really get the suspicion of Monty, so I ISO'ed him. Upon reading it myself, I could see that as a wolf. I'd rather give him time, but he get's a slight scumlean today.

I think this post kind of reminds me of how I felt d1 with the exception of Zack and ladd.


ladd

You're going nowhere with your scum-reads, as if you are afraid to commit. However:

You've got some subtle shade on Pzelda that looks like you are reluctant to vote there.

You hedge on calling a post of mine good content wise, but wolfy in tone.

You are reluctant to to do anything with a probable Barto scum-read, instead deferring to others for meta.

You give a out of nowhere ">rand Fable/Barto W/W" and don't follow up.

I feel like you are taking pot shots to see what sticks rahter than actually solving.

Also kind of like this post. feels like it would be way too blatant to do as a wolf. But I also like the points he was talking about and the way he was looking into ladd


light town

Montmorency
12-08-2019, 21:27
Just to be safe ;)

h/t


id like to hear this logic (xD)

if anything, the fact that the bads didn't vote for ladd despite him being the #3 vote getter should make him more likely bad himself at a superficial look

Barto did, unless you believe he calculated it at the last minute as anti-spew. Doesn't seem like Bart but idk. But there were those other reasons I and GH mentioned.


I'm always town here for two reasons: First of all, while I wasn't on Barto quite as early as Zack, I too quickly pointed out a discrepancy in one of his earliest comments and would have explored it further were the f3 in my other game (now concluded) not about to start. Secondly, I consistently voted for and pushed the two mafiosi pretty much all day yesterday, always ranking Barto ahead of Monty in my personal "lynch preference" list, jumping to PZelda, independently isoing PZelda and providing further ammunition to the fire, and ultimately ending up on him. I briefly switched to Chox, yes, but that was mostly out of deference to Empoof trying for some wagonomics and I was always intending to end back up on PZelda, as I think I made pretty clear over the course of EOD1. I will tolerate this tinfoiling of me for exactly the remainder of this dayphase, but once Egix flips mafia then it needs to stop.

One point I dislike is leaning on ISOs of scum. When I had to bus you and Zack in Chess, I went to feverish lengths to ISO you (but in an authentic way). Also, the "once Egix flips" line stirs some unspecified deja vu in me; I'm tilted.

What would you do in a F3 between you, me, and Choxorn?


thats dumb. ppl can be wrong and still be good.

:bounce:


There's other wagonomics-related reasons too, but I'm annoyed at this point and just wanted to get my thoughts down. Will get more into detail about it when I get back but I really don't deserve the treatment that I'm getting from exactly you right now considering how my D1 and would greatly appreciate it if you recognized my contributions and started looking elsewhere.

You said you had comments about Choxorn and night kills at the beginning of the day.



Town
Montmorency
Zack


Suck it Zaccino! :clown:



Also kind of like this post. feels like it would be way too blatant to do as a wolf. But I also like the points he was talking about and the way he was looking into ladd


@ladd

You're going nowhere with your scum-reads, as if you are afraid to commit. However:

You've got some subtle shade on Pzelda that looks like you are reluctant to vote there.

You hedge on calling a post of mine good content wise, but wolfy in tone.

You are reluctant to to do anything with a probable Barto scum-read, instead deferring to others for meta.

You give a out of nowhere ">rand Fable/Barto W/W" and don't follow up.

I feel like you are taking pot shots to see what sticks rahter than actually solving.

light town

Hmm, that's actually kind of a pinging post. I feel like Logic calling out a player for easy pushes and dismissive defenses is SLIGHT scum equity. Concerning that he only really talked about his top town reads plus this one scum push, that he has recanted today (for good reason).

What I would be looking for is who he targets for potential scumreads once he can buckle down, and how. Comment, Hankerchief?

Zack
12-08-2019, 21:30
Can you stop bringing up chess revisionist history

Kthxbye

Insaner
12-08-2019, 21:36
I would like to preface this by saying that this post is NOT intended to be a scum case on GH. What I aim to do with this post is call the narrative of "GH pushed two wolves on D1" into question. In fact, based on a reread of his D1 iso I can't say that he pushed anybody on D1. Zack pushed for El Barto to be lynched. I pushed for pzelda to be lynched. Everybody else on those wagons was a follower.

El Barto quotes:


Sup everyone.

Think there might be a phone interface through Tapatalk or something? Or check skins/styles in a dropdown list at the very bottom of the page, the default should be something like "TheGuild" or "STW" or something, idk, it's been like a decade since I've changed skins here.

Barto defense is interesting because "being busier in another game" (which I don't dispute) doesn't stop him from making a funny vote as opposed to talking about his suspicion.


Barto claims being busy/distracted as a reason why he didn't just drop a vote on you for saying you were going to phonepost (him shading people for that here is NAI; long story)

If we accept this explanation at face value, then think about which takes longer: dropping a simple vote, or posting what he posted instead in response?


Morning.

Skimmed a bit, haven't reread in depth (hope to do that before EOD), but here's some of my takes so far:

Barto/Monty wagons are not particularly spicy but I guess not really surprising considering this playerset. Between the two of them I think Barto has a higher chance of flipping mafia due to his start and Monty seemingly being whimsical Monty-self instead of really trying to accomplish anything in particular in this game. This is more of a "I like Monty for town" read than "I like Barto for scum" read, and while I recognize that I haven't played with either in literal years, I think the old meta still holds.

Fable can be town just because he's Very Obviously being a brat with the way he's treating the thread/game right now, I don't mean that in a particularly bad way, it's just like he doesn't feel obligated to actually try and put on a performance, and that's generally indicative of Town!Fable from my experience. I don't think this is a result of the low activity of the game, either, it's still a quality playerlist and he'd know he'd have to do stuff to fit in as mafia despite the low volume so far. Furthermore, I see that he just recently dropped a random townread on me that's kind of against the grain, and if it's for the reasons I suspect it is, then it's 100% something that Fable would do as town.

dya gets a day pass, I expect she'll be more active on D2, as will I.

I actually like Logic's three posts. Want to see more, but not worried yet.

Zack is... tentatively in my town. This has nothing to do with how he's approached my slot. It's more related to the fact of how he's dug into things that have caught his attention and hammered away at them until he's satisfied and refused to let up on things. There's less :daisy:posting than I'd expect, but I don't really think that's alignment-indicative in this environment. My main goal here is to further reinforce his townreads so that the mafia don't kill him at night for fear that he'll be protected by a doc or jailkeeper or something and be more likely to move on me instead. :book2: (but seriously, I think he's probably ok here)

Those are the takes that have stood out most to me so far, I don't really have any mafia yet beyond potentially Barto. Will make another pass later on today. If I haven't talked about someone here, it's because their posts haven't really left much impression on me. Yes, that includes you, Empoof.

I'm glad people are enjoying the emotes.


> "This is more of a 'I like Monty for town' read than a 'I like Barto for scum' read"
> GH is totally holding onto that Barto scumread amirite


Logic's town, consider this locked in.

Chox... might be mafia, but I'm not confident enough to go there today I don't think, and I think I can get him locked in one way or the other on D2. Would prefer not going there today.

ladd seems fine, think he's a miss.

I guess Insaner can be town and it's largely for his weird gif at me earlier today moreso than anything else he's done/general temperament.

Not as sold on Merl1n town as everyone else, and it's largely for this post:



It just seems a little overdone, even for the "I'm new and this is my first game" act he's putting on. I don't doubt that this is his first game but I feel like he's putting it on a little too much.

Empoof is gut mafia for me. Can't really explain it now. Kill me tonight if you don't want me to flesh this out please.

Guess I'm voting with my two large posts as a guideline. Anyone I haven't talked about I'm probably ambivalent about.


If I'm to put this in a readslist I think it goes something like:

Logic
Fable

Zack
Insaner

Monty
ladd

--- town line ---

Csargo
dya
Newyn
Pzelda
Cuth
Egix

Empoof
Choxorn

--- null/idk line ---

merl1n

El Barto


Not actually sure how much I like El Barto at the bottom but I don't really have the energy to try to find a different non-Monty lynch right now in my null territory.

Vote: El Barto


Got any mafia? Top town? Why?


Hm. Usually tally manipulation, if caught, is like instalynch material.

Think it's more likely that he just didn't see Monty's vote when he was making that?


His early callout on Barto was A Thing™. But later he walked it back to "it's not that Barto is a wolf but rather that Monty is a villager" and even denied holding a wolf read on Barto to my face. Doesn't mention him in his next post where he puts wolf leans on 3 other people (Choxorn, merl1n, Empoof). Has Barto as the lowest placed person on his next readlist and votes him in the next post but still doesn't provide a compelling reason for the scum read.


Got any mafia? Top town? Why?


Hm. Usually tally manipulation, if caught, is like instalynch material.

Think it's more likely that he just didn't see Monty's vote when he was making that?

The only interaction he had with Barto at EoD was that question. After which he made this sneaky attempt to OPPORTUNISTICALLY™ turn the lynch on me, his supposed town read, whom he was sheeping on pzelda, his supposed wolf read.

pzelda quotes:




Morning.

Skimmed a bit, haven't reread in depth (hope to do that before EOD), but here's some of my takes so far:

Barto/Monty wagons are not particularly spicy but I guess not really surprising considering this playerset. Between the two of them I think Barto has a higher chance of flipping mafia due to his start and Monty seemingly being whimsical Monty-self instead of really trying to accomplish anything in particular in this game. This is more of a "I like Monty for town" read than "I like Barto for scum" read, and while I recognize that I haven't played with either in literal years, I think the old meta still holds.

Fable can be town just because he's Very Obviously being a brat with the way he's treating the thread/game right now, I don't mean that in a particularly bad way, it's just like he doesn't feel obligated to actually try and put on a performance, and that's generally indicative of Town!Fable from my experience. I don't think this is a result of the low activity of the game, either, it's still a quality playerlist and he'd know he'd have to do stuff to fit in as mafia despite the low volume so far. Furthermore, I see that he just recently dropped a random townread on me that's kind of against the grain, and if it's for the reasons I suspect it is, then it's 100% something that Fable would do as town.

dya gets a day pass, I expect she'll be more active on D2, as will I.

I actually like Logic's three posts. Want to see more, but not worried yet.

Zack is... tentatively in my town. This has nothing to do with how he's approached my slot. It's more related to the fact of how he's dug into things that have caught his attention and hammered away at them until he's satisfied and refused to let up on things. There's less :daisy:posting than I'd expect, but I don't really think that's alignment-indicative in this environment. My main goal here is to further reinforce his townreads so that the mafia don't kill him at night for fear that he'll be protected by a doc or jailkeeper or something and be more likely to move on me instead. :book2: (but seriously, I think he's probably ok here)

Those are the takes that have stood out most to me so far, I don't really have any mafia yet beyond potentially Barto. Will make another pass later on today. If I haven't talked about someone here, it's because their posts haven't really left much impression on me. Yes, that includes you, Empoof.

I'm glad people are enjoying the emotes.


Logic's town, consider this locked in.

Chox... might be mafia, but I'm not confident enough to go there today I don't think, and I think I can get him locked in one way or the other on D2. Would prefer not going there today.

ladd seems fine, think he's a miss.

I guess Insaner can be town and it's largely for his weird gif at me earlier today moreso than anything else he's done/general temperament.

Not as sold on Merl1n town as everyone else, and it's largely for this post:



It just seems a little overdone, even for the "I'm new and this is my first game" act he's putting on. I don't doubt that this is his first game but I feel like he's putting it on a little too much.

Empoof is gut mafia for me. Can't really explain it now. Kill me tonight if you don't want me to flesh this out please.

Guess I'm voting with my two large posts as a guideline. Anyone I haven't talked about I'm probably ambivalent about.


If I'm to put this in a readslist I think it goes something like:

Logic
Fable

Zack
Insaner

Monty
ladd

--- town line ---

Csargo
dya
Newyn
Pzelda
Cuth
Egix

Empoof
Choxorn

--- null/idk line ---

merl1n

El Barto


Ok.

Vote: PZelda


Straight up, I'm a bit annoyed that Insaner was like "I HAVE A PERFECT READ ON PZELDA AND HE IS ALWAYS MAFIA HERE" and then immediately walked it back to "well I've read him right 2 out of 3 games" but whatever, riding with this for now.


I've read the pzelda iso for myself and am officially signing off on that wagon beyond "I'll sheep Insaner on it". My main problem can be best summarized by this post:



There is no attempt at following up on this. There is no hint of an attempt at following up on this. There's clarifications, a good bit about talking about MU people and meta and anything besides actual reads and takes on people, but there's very little actual solving spirit, and in my experience people making statements similar to the bolded and going absolutely nowhere with them is a pretty reliable scumtell.


I'm hopping off in a couple minutes back on pzelda, FYI.


Vote: pzelda


pzelda > choxorn >>>>>>> el barto >> ladd

in order of preference


Feeling decent. Glad to be back here.

GL, here's hoping.



He straight up doesn't mention pzelda at all in his first two read posts and then puts him into a null pile in the third one. Immediately votes him after I claim to have a god read on Capage, but wasn't pleased with the situation when I later walked it back later. Ended up voting pzelda there at the end.


In summary: GH only ever spoke negatively about each of the flipped wolves, but to say that he pushed for any of them to be lynched is a stretch. There are posts where he is seen wolf reading them and being willing to vote there, but I haven't found any attempts to actually reinforce either of those wagons.

GeneralHankerchief
12-08-2019, 21:50
@ Monty

Ping acknowledged but I don't think my nightkill musings is as important/sharable now.

Fable
12-08-2019, 21:53
https://media0.giphy.com/media/BpLDGapjAOf5salQqm/giphy.gif

merl1n
12-08-2019, 22:11
https://media0.giphy.com/media/BpLDGapjAOf5salQqm/giphy.gif

i lack the appropriate words

dyachei
12-08-2019, 22:20
Fable are you going to do anything this game? I mean other than post gifs

Fable
12-08-2019, 22:34
Fable are you going to do anything this game? I mean other than post gifs

I keep trying to post a reads list and then getting distracted and I'm lynching wolves so it's k.

Fable
12-08-2019, 22:52
Insaner
GH
mont


----

merl1n
ladd
Zack
--------
csargo
dya
newyn
egix
logic
---------------
chox
cuth