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Jan
11-09-2023, 02:03
It's now my turn to tell you to get some sleep, but I understand :)

the iso function here is definitely hard to use!

I appreciate you.

And I hate Ladd for being wavering bullshit artist that made my heart go boom in the first place.

ladd
11-09-2023, 02:11
i am somehow still awake

Gemma
11-09-2023, 02:11
No more posting.

ladd
11-09-2023, 02:12
i guess jan is a villager too


so unless suibian is snowing both me and jan we should be fine. tho i am still slightly uneasy lol

Gemma
11-09-2023, 02:14
Votal 5.4

Rask (3) - Jan (#1223 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053851809&viewfull=1#post2053851809)), ladd (#1224 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053851810&viewfull=1#post2053851810)), Suibian (#1247 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053851833&viewfull=1#post2053851833))
Jan (2) - Rask (#1186 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053851770&viewfull=1#post2053851770)), (Ender (#1223 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053851819&viewfull=1#post2053851819))

https://media.tenor.com/rWSxOfXPTwkAAAAd/catch22-war.gif

Rask is yates. Flip incoming.

Gemma
11-09-2023, 02:15
Raskolnikov was:
Vanilla cereal, in the form of:
Trigo triturado
You are a pillow of woven wheat strands, and you can be too big for a mouth or as small as a tooth. You may not have any special flavor, but your talent for texture places you in the upper echelon of breakfast cereals. Many treat you with honey the way they would a crumpet (your first cousin and closest childhood friend), but you don’t even need milk to excite the senses. You are shredded wheat.

::)::

You’ve always been afraid of death. Please don’t kill me, you whisper prayerfully to the night, but you know it ignores you. Sometimes a strange longing takes you, and for a moment you believe you’re about to meet your end. “Aquí está,” you say out loud. “Los asesinos en cereales me llevan.”

One day, as the rising sun peeks through your huddled cardboard covers, you have an epiphany, or at least a thought. “Soy le defensore de les despoetices,” you proclaim convincingly. “Y nadie puede silenciarme. ¡Adelante, mi arma es mi voz!” You emerge from your dusty fortress into the dawnlit lands and set out ayonder with tongue in hand. You may be a little bland, but you certainly have an appetite.

You win when all threats to cereal have been eaten.

Gemma
11-09-2023, 02:23
Night 5 ends in eon5

Please submit night actions 1 hour before deadline, thanks!

Gemma
11-09-2023, 03:22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqAvFx3NxUM

bueno, mis amigos, ha llegado el momento
para hacer ruido y pasar un buen rato
tirar el trabajo por hacer
deja que la música suene (toca, toca)
todos cantan, todos bailan
piérdete en un romance salvaje
nos vamos de fiesta
karamu, fiesta, por siempre
ven y canta
nos vamos de fiesta
karamu, fiesta, por siempre
ven y canta

toda la noche (toda la noche)

Gemma
11-10-2023, 02:01
Suibian has died. They were:
Vanilla cereal, in the form of:
Corn flakes
You are the refuge of hobbledehoyhood, and you are enough to be had on your own but only ever in a rush, with haphazard milk-splashing mouthfuls from the left hand as the right claws open a novella about wine-loving promiscuous pranksters in brown robes calling each other brother. (With any luck, there’ll be a Rowlandsonesque illustration in the in between pages.) Sometimes you are even carried away from the table, or the counter, and taken on an adventure, upstairs perhaps, where you might even meet a bed. Such is the errant life of a corn flake.

::)::

You’ve always been afraid of death. Please don’t kill me, you whisper prayerfully to the night, but you know it ignores you. Sometimes a strange longing takes you, and for a moment you believe you’re about to meet your end. “Aquí está,” you say out loud. “Los asesinos en cereales me llevan.”

One day, as the rising sun peeks through your huddled cardboard covers, you have an epiphany, or at least a thought. “Soy le defensore de les despoetices,” you proclaim convincingly. “Y nadie puede silenciarme. ¡Adelante, mi arma es mi voz!” You emerge from your dusty fortress into the dawnlit lands and set out ayonder with tongue in hand. You may be a little bland, but you certainly have an appetite.

You win when all threats to cereal have been eaten.

Livelist
ladd
EnderWiggin
Jan

Votes are locked.

eod6

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 02:22
https://media.tenor.com/P8BhggMsfewAAAAC/asdf-muffin.gif

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 02:29
My initial gut reaction is that I was right on Ladd in the first place.

Jan seems rand~ more likely to have kept Sui alive? I feel like Sui was well pocketed if Jan was actually wolf here.

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 02:30
The counterpoint wifom would be "But Jan saw me do exactly that earlier with my Sui tunnel and is banking on that."

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 02:40
I have but i dont see a reason (unless i missed it)

You are free to consiser me but when you come to the conclusion i am a wolf thats where i find it problematic cause

1) i have clearly shown all game i care about solving people and not just get mislunches

2) i have voted on both w wagons in close v/w wagons

3) sleep spewed me v



Fwiw i think you are the least likely wolf and have a post that should probably clear you

For me its between rask and jan

Ladd, can you talk about why you have been so vehement whenever anyone has accused of fosed you?

Even before sleep went over (Who you bank on having "spewed you v") you were very unhappy with my sus on you.

While I'm here can you talk about holding onto your thoughts until people brought you into discussion? I can understand holding off on the Sui town post but it felt like you were holding back all your thoughts until later and trying to work out what your goal was for it.

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 02:43
Woke up to pee and now my fucking adrenaline is raging..

Fuck this shit.

If Ladd switches on me then he is basically putting as wolf that thinks his final 3 is easier against me than Rask.

No ifs or butts about it.
That man has played enough games with me to know beyond the shadow of a fucking doubt that I am a villager in this game.
He has repeated it over and over again and there is no doubt in my mind that him switching now would only be because he is a wolf.

And if you want me to read back more just give me a better iso function to work with.

I voted Ladd because I wanted to see if I would get any reactions at all but this is a dead game and there is not much to do about it.

Anyways.
At least now we know why ender stayed alive.
I am doing my best to not be a condescending prick on that matter.

Will try to sleep again. Fuck pee and fuck adrenaline.
Fuck.

Hey Jan, want to talk about this post a little bit. I remember disliking it when I read over it after EOD but also wanted to come back to it now.

Can you talk about what you mean with "Ladd switching on you" meaning he thinks F3 is easier "against you"? Especially now in the context of today being that F3.

It felt like you were tunnelled on Rask until it was near EOD and then you weren't.

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 02:46
(Also if you are town I am sorry about my flip to sussing you I'm just trying the best with what I have.)

Jan
11-10-2023, 02:49
I was so fucking ready to give Tammy immunity and just let jesus take the wheel.

God damn it.

Jan
11-10-2023, 02:54
Hey Jan, want to talk about this post a little bit. I remember disliking it when I read over it after EOD but also wanted to come back to it now.

Can you talk about what you mean with "Ladd switching on you" meaning he thinks F3 is easier "against you"? Especially now in the context of today being that F3.

It felt like you were tunnelled on Rask until it was near EOD and then you weren't.

I was in bed and mistyped.

Wolf Ladd would have an easier time with Rask in f3 because Sui would be more likely on my side.
And you simply should not be here.

And his behaviour before EOD felt like he was giving himself room to switch without actually losing face.

I can get the post when on by pc. Should be on the last page anyway.

Jan
11-10-2023, 02:55
(Also if you are town I am sorry about my flip to sussing you I'm just trying the best with what I have.)

You don't know me and Ladd has a base style that reads very villagers as either alignment.
And you were correct not voting Rask.
Can't really blame you for that one.

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 02:55
And you simply should not be here.

I wish.

Jan
11-10-2023, 03:00
I had this whole speech in my head prepared telling Sui to either listen to her heart or listen to a bunch of dead clowns.

Was about to tell her that this is just a game and being wrong in final 3 would be fine.

And then vote Ladd and basically check out unless she asks me a question.

I even had a wonderful Ladd quote that I wanted to bring up where he says Sui and I are just always the same alignment.

And now I have to play the fucking game.

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 03:00
There's part of me that reads Ladd's sudden "I can clear Suibian" as an excuse to set her up to be the nk tonight.

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 03:01
Last night*

You know what I meant.

Jan
11-10-2023, 03:05
I wish.
Ladd told me 2 times that you should mechanically never be a wolf.
So technically I should be fine giving you immunity right now by voting Ladd?

I was just so fine to lose to Sui if we were all wrong on her and she pocketed me.
And losing to you would be based on a bad mech read.

But a part of me is inclined to ask for the fucking immunity myself.
Just because I am never keeping you alive.
On day fucking two I said Ladd/Sui/myself is the final 3 if the game is not over by then.
I am too arrogant to not listen to my own prediction if I have a fucking choice.

I hope you don't plan to show this to any children.

Jan
11-10-2023, 03:10
There's part of me that reads Ladd's sudden "I can clear Suibian" as an excuse to set her up to be the nk tonight.

I think everyone else had her as not a wolf.
There was no reason not to clear her.

I think if Ladd is the wolf he feels like he has an easier time convincing you to become his little Mogli-boy.
I just didn't think he would dare.

Jan
11-10-2023, 03:11
Leaving bed early. Brb.

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 03:16
Ladd told me 2 times that you should mechanically never be a wolf.
So technically I should be fine giving you immunity right now by voting Ladd?

I was just so fine to lose to Sui if we were all wrong on her and she pocketed me.
And losing to you would be based on a bad mech read.

But a part of me is inclined to ask for the fucking immunity myself.
Just because I am never keeping you alive.
On day fucking two I said Ladd/Sui/myself is the final 3 if the game is not over by then.
I am too arrogant to not listen to my own prediction if I have a fucking choice.

I hope you don't plan to show this to any children.

On one hand I'd be actually pretty annoyed if I got kept around to be voted out on F3.

On the other hand this is where I'd squint at the mech clears if one was alive too so I understand.

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 03:17
Also "I would never keep you alive if I was wolf" is such a wifom-able statement.

Jan
11-10-2023, 03:18
Final 3 is brought to you by:

Best Served Cold by Joe Abercrombie.
read by Steven Pacey.

I finished my other audiobook in time to start this one right now. It should be fitting for whatever is happening here.
Plus if you are into grim dark fantasy Abercrombie is maybe the best at it.

Jan
11-10-2023, 03:19
Also "I would never keep you alive if I was wolf" is such a wifom-able statement.

It is.
But I will not deny the truth.

Let me look up the two statements that are the reason why I as a wolf would always have kept sui in here. There are somewhere on d2 and d4 I believe so it might take a second :P

Jan
11-10-2023, 03:32
I am afraid that this game which feels competent and mostly fun will be a buzzkill because we find out the wolf-team basically didn't play d1.

Bart
sleep
cape

team would be heartbreaking in that regard.
sleep and cape did a good job afterwards tbh.


Visor
EnderWiggin
Syn

Suibian
Ladd

Raskolnikov
Cape90

Sleep

Is where I am at.

Sleep and Cape have good toan going for them, but that is more based on playstyle than anything else.
Hard to see the difference between not really into it villa and wolf in a corner that has mostly given up in Sleeps behavior.

If the bottom 3 do not include 2 wolves then either mech is wrong (which I don't think is true) or there is an actual deep wolf.


I think if ladd is a wolf he is mostly forced to push me into the poe slowly but surely because he just loses a f3 with tammy and myself.
But he doubled down on me as villa today.

I am kind of sad that I didn't see rask panic more about yesterday being v/v wagons with little momentum to change.
That would have been my perspective as v in that position. Both of them voted off wagon and the only person who was not involved in the two main wagons is Taffy.

In the end Laddd has been pushing me in the poe more slowly but I hinted about this always being the final 3 and I don't see a reason to not follow through.

(I had differen


Assuming the mech clears are true and my read on sui is correct then if ladd was a wolf then his partner is between sleep cape and you.
Easy math. No big surprise there.

And no I won't make a town case for ladd sorry.
I think he is a villa but he is also the one person in my core I can be wrong on.
He would be just locked in as villa but his d1 vote on el barto has a chance of bussing.

But all that read comes down to for me is does this feel like solving ladd and do I see him being opportunistic or prepping any kills on villas.
And looking for quotes about something he does not do is kind of difficult, but I gave an example earlier about him not doubting me at all today.

These should be the quotes. In my head they were slightly more decisive, but the idea is still pretty much there.

Jan
11-10-2023, 03:34
here is the silly take of the day:

jan/suibian FEEL the same alignment to me, just their dynamic and how they are playing with each other feels like either it's 2 villagers who found each other or they are (somehow) both wolves


w/v feels weird

And this is the post that I would have nailed Ladd with if it was f3 between sui ladd and myself.

(easier to search because same alignment is a rare wording in this game :D )

Jan
11-10-2023, 03:45
My only little holdback in regards to Ender right now is setup-based.

1-shot vig
a-shot vest

compliment each other very well regarding changing one kp from wolfside to village side.

Which if you assume 15 players mountainous as balanced would work for a 13-player game.


But it kind of gives the village 2 confirmed villagers, maybe 3. (that is if the village believes in claimed roles)
Which is a huge swing.
And I am unsure what the wolves would have as counterplay.
Nothing of use comes to mind because you really just use either 1-shot on n1 so rolecops and roleblocks are basically useless.

Gemma has played games under Eidos/Voxxs wing for a while and Voxx really enjoys the odd wolf-doc in his tiny setups.

Adding the vig still moves 1 kp overall to the village side.
The vest from a wolf role is only for playmaking.


But like - why would anyone kill tammy n2?
The wolves know how strong their power is and visor confirmed the existence of both sig as well as ender (not alignment ofc).
If both of them are villagers which wolf thinks that tammys claim is not fps?

Wolf ladd would need to be an actual powerhouse role to think tammy is the right kill.


This has been fucking me for days and if this is me being an idiot and losing the game for the village I am truly sorry, but I need to talk it through and the only person I can talk it through is the fucking main wolf candidate ladd .

(Sorry Ender unless you have a genius idea for why you are always real this little part is something Ladd and I have to chew through trying to clear or condemn you based on it)

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 04:07
I don't have much I can say tbh. I feel like "Vesting and shooting someone N1" isn't something I'd do as wolf but also you don't know me so eh.

Also given both Syn and I are 1-shots and gave that away I feel like Taffy as a kill makes sense from either of you if you wanted to avoid any chance of surviving too long. (Killing Taffy leaves alive enough people who would die over you to reach F3)

But neither of those are slam-dunks. My job is to keep solving and work out who correctly to vote. And then convince who-ever is the town of you to vote with me.

And it's my fault I've been lazily expecting to die tbh.

Jan
11-10-2023, 04:22
I don't have much I can say tbh. I feel like "Vesting and shooting someone N1" isn't something I'd do as wolf but also you don't know me so eh.

Also given both Syn and I are 1-shots and gave that away I feel like Taffy as a kill makes sense from either of you if you wanted to avoid any chance of surviving too long. (Killing Taffy leaves alive enough people who would die over you to reach F3)

But neither of those are slam-dunks. My job is to keep solving and work out who correctly to vote. And then convince who-ever is the town of you to vote with me.

And it's my fault I've been lazily expecting to die tbh.
Yeah that is why I am saying that is something Ladd and I have to talk about and be sure.


It is very much a thunderdome between us and you are just clear or we think you are the wolf based on mechanics and both vote you.

And I am very aware that me putting this out there is you are a villager fucks up my position in a possible thunderdome that follows.
But it is final 3 and I am simply not willing to lose because my paranoia was correct.

Jan
11-10-2023, 04:35
Vesting and shooting someone n1 is a really great play if you know what is happening next.

It is an odd play for you to do n1 without the knowledge of the moving parts.

If you are wolf it has to be a hail marry desperation move.


Votal 1.7 - EoD1

Monty (4) - Rask (#38 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850576&viewfull=1#post2053850576)), Barto (#67 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850606&viewfull=1#post2053850606)), Wisdom (#185 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850726&viewfull=1#post2053850726)), Ender (#299 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850842&viewfull=1#post2053850842))
Barto (4) - Jan (#73 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850612&viewfull=1#post2053850612)), ladd (#175 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850716&viewfull=1#post2053850716)), Suibian (#277 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850819&viewfull=1#post2053850819)), Visor (#298 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850840&viewfull=1#post2053850840))
Wisdom (2) - Sleep (#229 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850770&viewfull=1#post2053850770)), Monty (#299 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850841&viewfull=1#post2053850841))
Rask (1) - Syn (#279 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850821&viewfull=1#post2053850821))
Syn (1) - Taffy (289 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850831&viewfull=1#post2053850831))

https://media.tenor.com/0FmzSlf3MW0AAAAM/ratyi-kassa.gif

El Barto has been yeeted. Flip incoming.

You are the last voter on monty the cw to the d1 wolf.
Which in your defense was always the vote you were going for that day you were just being silly until then.


Vote: Monty

Who saw this top 10 anime betrayal coming

As wolf with sleep and barto on your team and knowing you will get some heat (and you got forced to claim d2 which means it was the perfect play in hindsight as either alignment) going for a weird hail marry is somewhat reasonable.
The problem is that you have to find a way to stay alive until f3 and nobody sussing you out for it.

Which is a fairly hard prediction to make n1 when you take that action.

This is not helping me as much as I was hoping it would.

Jan
11-10-2023, 04:39
Why do I have to be the one doing the due diligence in final 3?

Why can't you be a proper pr and just die in the night?

This is either the biggest waste of my fucking time or the only way for us to win the game.
And this game felt like it should have been won days ago.


Do you want to know the worst part?

All of this explains :

Who shoots visor?
It was never about visor and always a play and everyone knows he is the right person to get played.

Jan
11-10-2023, 04:39
I love you visor and you know this, but this is too funny to not bring up.

Jan
11-10-2023, 04:41
But also Ladd shoots visor because Ladd is a natural-born killer coward.

*shrug*

ladd
11-10-2023, 05:01
I was so fucking ready to give Tammy immunity and just let jesus take the wheel.

God damn it.

I was actually gonna snap tammy over you after the last post you made lmao


Now i am just confused



Back to sleep

ladd
11-10-2023, 05:03
If jan just kills ender in the night he probably wins?

ladd
11-10-2023, 05:05
Otoh its hard to vote ender mechanically...but man ender being a wolf makes so much sense based on play while jan being a wolf makes little sense

Dude is fucking villagery


I ll think about it tomorrow, adieu

Jan
11-10-2023, 05:09
I went through d1 searching "ender" and took all the posts that either included confirmed wolves or stayed in my head.

All the interactions between sleep and ender d1.


I feel like Sleep was in a game recent-ish (for me who barely plays these days) and they were revealed to be someone I know.

I can't be bothered to check tho.
This was early after the sub-in.


The next posts are all in direct reference to each other and happened as a conversation in thread. (the initial post by ender happening early)

Oh I just got reminded by seeing Sleep's posts that their main entry felt like obligation to do more work than they needed to. Which takes 3rd place on my scumread list.

It's a good list I swear.



really good post by ender, this gets to what i took issue with from monty but in more words than i could be bothered to use. just feels like monty is stalled in neutral


that's because i did! i got the notice i was replacing in, then procrastinated for a few hours, and by that time it was 1 AM but i didn't feel like leaving the thread with nothing before i went to sleep (no pun intended). call it self-conscious if you like, i knew if i just made an intro post and dipped i was probably going to catch shit for it and then i wind up getting into arguments with people and it completely kills my ability to actually get reads.


ladd basically feels like himself i don't think anything he's posted is super alignment indicative so far


https://media.tenor.com/zd1jUmlynEIAAAAC/alright-carry-on.gif


Enders main reads on myself and Ladd on d1.
Not really important, but since we are the final 3 it felt correct to include.


Good luck getting as much effort about any of my other reads this phase.

My other sort of scumread rn is Jan.

Mostly cause (and this is going to sound self-centred I know), the following post:


It feels like the lame-duck style I see often used to shade people without directly attacking them.

I also don't know Jan that well so this is a wild hipshot of a read but I feel good about it.


Ladd feels mildly opportunistic in the way his reads have moved. I'm keeping this one in my back pocket but I'm also not gonna explain it because idk. I'm not calling this one a scumread so much as--

Actually yeah nm Ladd can be 4th on my list.

What do you mean it was supposed to only be 3 names??


This is just visor having ender as his main wolfread d1 and then getting vested by ender the following night.
I'll be honest. I am less likely to vest someone that is not even capable of reading me correctly this game (just increases wolf equity).


id prefer either ender or wisdom to die i thikn

prob ender


so my initial read on wisdom was that they were too slanky to be a wolf but then they made some more posts and i was like woah slow down there chief thats some wolfy stuff

ender still more likely to be a wolf tho imo


Important to note is that both ender and sleep voted wisdom until the very last second at which point Ender tied the monty wagon with El Barto.

none of this is clear cut w/w but also just never unaligned which was honestly the reason I was doing it.

I believe anything after n1 does not matter for wolf interactions because it basically became a lone wolf versus world kind of game.

Jan
11-10-2023, 05:10
Otoh its hard to vote ender mechanically...but man ender being a wolf makes so much sense based on play while jan being a wolf makes little sense

Dude is fucking villagery


I ll think about it tomorrow, adieu

I will likely be here.
Eating my nails.

Jan
11-10-2023, 05:16
The fact that there is just a chance that I am going from undesirable to undeniable in f3 after the last two days of watching the insane clown pose (cape/rask/ender) trying to burn me alive is fun.

But also it does not help me solve this mess.

Jan
11-10-2023, 05:24
To anyone who cares:

Enders interaction with sleep ~feels to me similar to poking your partner but letting them go easy. just a little non-threatening dance

just like - prod your partner in public to
a. force them to play
b. force an interaction
c. look like you are solving

The last gif is the only part that feels slightly too much. Because it is kind of officially ending the interaction.

If I were a wolf then my early vote on El Barto would have been the same but he never showed up again.


But like this is honestly nothing.
And all I need is to figure out the mechanics because that should simply solve this game.

ladd
11-10-2023, 05:45
My only little holdback in regards to Ender right now is setup-based.

1-shot vig
a-shot vest

compliment each other very well regarding changing one kp from wolfside to village side.

Which if you assume 15 players mountainous as balanced would work for a 13-player game.


But it kind of gives the village 2 confirmed villagers, maybe 3. (that is if the village believes in claimed roles)
Which is a huge swing.
And I am unsure what the wolves would have as counterplay.
Nothing of use comes to mind because you really just use either 1-shot on n1 so rolecops and roleblocks are basically useless.

Gemma has played games under Eidos/Voxxs wing for a while and Voxx really enjoys the odd wolf-doc in his tiny setups.

Adding the vig still moves 1 kp overall to the village side.
The vest from a wolf role is only for playmaking.


But like - why would anyone kill tammy n2?
The wolves know how strong their power is and visor confirmed the existence of both sig as well as ender (not alignment ofc).
If both of them are villagers which wolf thinks that tammys claim is not fps?

Wolf ladd would need to be an actual powerhouse role to think tammy is the right kill.


This has been fucking me for days and if this is me being an idiot and losing the game for the village I am truly sorry, but I need to talk it through and the only person I can talk it through is the fucking main wolf candidate ladd .

(Sorry Ender unless you have a genius idea for why you are always real this little part is something Ladd and I have to chew through trying to clear or condemn you based on it)

Its just that for ender to be a wolf he d need to have

A) shot and vested visor on the same night

B) village only has 1 pr and wopves have tge exact counter to it (doesnt seem impossible i guess?)

ladd
11-10-2023, 05:46
The funny thing is that i am somehow still leaning on him being the wolf lol

His d1 was so wolfy

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:00
Its just that for ender to be a wolf he d need to have

A) shot and vested visor on the same night

B) village only has 1 pr and wopves have tge exact counter to it (doesnt seem impossible i guess?)

Think about it for a while but the question here is really what pr could wolves have to even out this setup (that has not been shown so far)?

I agree that it is very much a Hail marry play to make.

When you design this setup you really have to assume that both prs use their one-shot ability on n1.
Rolecop or roleblock are borderline useless.
They clearly did not have their own extra KP because the game is still going.

I hate trying to solve this game based on setup but with ender alive we simply have to question this.

And yes a vest is a possible counter to the vig but that is very much why it has actual use for wolves outside of confirming a wolf.
You can either take away 1 kp from the village if you have a wolf under pressure and have somewhat lucky timing OR you can play it for the cred and buy yourself a reason to survive.

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:04
The funny thing is that i am somehow still leaning on him being the wolf lol

His d1 was so wolfy

I don't remember you having that read d1.
you read his initial post v d1 and then switched it here.
this is what you said when prodded by visor d1:

i get it, but i won't be voting there #bias

talk to me a bit about ender if u can pls


Already threw him off my v reads

It was mostly a silly read based on his v first post about cereals

Rest of his posts are w/e
I will look if you had that read on his eod on d2.

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:06
vote:ender

thought his posting after i went to sleep was pretty terrible


also wanna see more from rask/wisdom


i have a match so i'll be mostly afk on sunday

okay, fuck me. your first post d2 is this.

you're not trying to play me. good to know.

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:15
Just as a heads-up - I have no intention of playing this out over 48 hours.

I get timezones and people being busy but I myself will not spend 48 hours on this game before rolling the dice and letting fate decide.

ladd
11-10-2023, 06:17
Yea i will vote earlier too

I may be tempted to vote right now tbh lol

ladd
11-10-2023, 06:20
okay, fuck me. your first post d2 is this.

you're not trying to play me. good to know.

Yea i wrote a fairly big case on him d2 that i think made a ton of sense


If it was not for mech id kill him in a heartbeat

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:23
Yea i will vote earlier too

I may be tempted to vote right now tbh lol

I wanted to wake up.

Make a single post to unload my brain.

Then vote.

But that was when I expected Tammy to be around.

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:25
Yea i wrote a fairly big case on him d2 that i think made a ton of sense


If it was not for mech id kill him in a heartbeat

Do you think two village prs versus only goons is a reasonable setup at all?
Because I cannot come up with any wolf power that fits this setup in any way and would still be hidden.

ladd
11-10-2023, 06:26
I am reading jan posts and i just dont see a wolf

If he is, then he has me completely fooled

Now i dont think i am jan #1 friend or anythjng but i gotta have played at least 50 games with him at this point and i juust dont seem him as a wolf

Congrats to him if so cause ender voting is prob comjng in next post


Sorry if its wrong but to me the difference in villageriness overcomes the mech

ladd
11-10-2023, 06:28
Do you think two village prs versus only goons is a reasonable setup at all?
Because I cannot come up with any wolf power that fits this setup in any way and would still be hidden.

I dunno setup is weird to me regardless of what ender is?

But i think gemma comes froma different background than me so i am just not used to it

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:30
I dunno setup is weird to me regardless of what ender is?

But i think gemma comes froma different background than me so i am just not used to it

I have seen similar setups by voxx on dlp and gemma has played a long time over there too.

Voxx loves to give wolves a power that feels useless like wolf doctor in a low power game.
Vest goes one step further but it also is so much more confirmable than a doc.

ladd
11-10-2023, 06:30
vote:enderwiggins

Sorry if its a throw. I am not finding jan wolf this game

My bad if he is one

ladd
11-10-2023, 06:32
Post something plz

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:34
I am reading jan posts and i just dont see a wolf

If he is, then he has me completely fooled

Now i dont think i am jan #1 friend or anythjng but i gotta have played at least 50 games with him at this point and i juust dont seem him as a wolf

Congrats to him if so cause ender voting is prob comjng in next post


Sorry if its wrong but to me the difference in villageriness overcomes the mech

Our shared games are mostly mashes and some invitational/anon games.
I am a villager and I am just not sure.

I can see a perfect narrative for either of you and both just make so much sense.
Ender being allowed to live in the shadows of the town as confirmed until now.

You playing the endgaming lone wolf knowing you have to bus your partner sleep.
The big difference is that your vote on el barto could be easy distancing, but I think you would maybe be more decisive on that one if you re a wolf with el bart and sleep on your team.
Because all of us had you as the low accountability bus vote on that wagon. And that is exactly what you don't really want to be as a good wolf.

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:35
Post something plz

you are fine.

I on the hand am still fucking lost.

Gemma
11-10-2023, 06:35
Votal 6.1

Ender (1) - ladd (#1310 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053851898&viewfull=1#post2053851898))

Votes are locked.

https://media.tenor.com/Szld2V6S3J8AAAAM/tedlassogifs-2x03.gif

eod6

ladd
11-10-2023, 06:36
you are fine.

I on the hand am still fucking lost.

Thank god lmao

ladd
11-10-2023, 06:37
Wait a sec i ll get to the pc and convince you

I have lost count of how many times i have posted

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:38
Objectively you are 10x more villagery Ladd.

The problem is that I respect your wolfgame a lot and your ability to sound villagery and this game has been a lone wolf mess d2 onwards.

Which makes this really hard.



I think going into the day as a wolf you would have doubled down on voting me.
With me questioning ender I kind of gave you a curveball to consider if you're a wolf.
I don't really think that would have been high on your list of expected plays.

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:39
Wait a sec i ll get to the pc and convince you

I have lost count of how many times i have posted

So have I. But this is final 3 and I should still be less than 25, I hope.

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:41
Wait a sec i ll get to the pc and convince you

I have lost count of how many times i have posted

Also just to be sure and out of respect to him regardless of what you say I will always give ender time to return and post as well.

As much as I don't want this to go 48 hours I simply cannot throw this by voting him while he is asleep.

ladd
11-10-2023, 06:43
Objectively you are 10x more villagery Ladd.

The problem is that I respect your wolfgame a lot and your ability to sound villagery and this game has been a lone wolf mess d2 onwards.

Which makes this really hard.



I think going into the day as a wolf you would have doubled down on voting me.
With me questioning ender I kind of gave you a curveball to consider if you're a wolf.
I don't really think that would have been high on your list of expected plays.

yea, your posting f3 honestly saved the game (kinda)

I had you as a villager after your last post of ysterday but i still would have found it hard to vote for ender today if you had not posted so well in f3



idt i vote so early as a wolf tbh, ender was on you yesterday after all. I can just wait and maybe he misvotes




as for why ender is a wolf, i'll ust requote my case from d2:


i dont get how you can make this statement when d1 i basically said part of what you said about monty before you and iirc we had similarish reads

and now of all statements to agree with...its wanting more out of rask/wisdom which is something so generic




and now you apparentely think i am a wolf - why? because i am pushing you and i pushed you another game before when I was a villager? idk man that doesnt make much sense to me, am i not allowed to push you anymore cause 1 game i was a wolf in i pushe dyou lol


i think i have explained fairly well why i think you are a wolf this game (it doesnt take a lot of imagination to think of a world where you are a wolf) but just in case i'll re explain it:

you voted monty in what was basicall RVS on pg.1 for (imo) a silly reason, then you turned that into a real (and your only) push towards EoD by quoting basically every post in monty iso and calling it wolfy

then you made this post to monty:




which to me really reads like the classic wolf trying to appease the villager they are pushing by asking some generic questions they don't care to have the answer to (which visor iirc called out, which is why i am even more confuse dby him backing off today)


then from this point on, you have 0 interactions, re valaution or pondering/doubt on monty alignment until you snipe him at the end of EoD:



hope this helps


29

Jan
11-10-2023, 06:44
actually 32 posts. well since I don't have to convince anyone anymore that should be enough to put down a vote.

ladd
11-10-2023, 06:57
i am cool with bussing but

1) i hate having to explain why i am alive in f3, now it lined up nicely cause of the PRs and visor stuff but ya

2) i still vastly prefer to win before F3s cause while I don't HATE wolfing, i def ratehr end the game earlier

3) i don't buss both wolves in the same exact way lmao

4) me and visor were the only 2 players to vote both wolf wagons

5) ender's eod1 is the wolfiest thing in the game

6) i have tried to revalaute every step of the way, i have given the villagers who have been mislunched this game basically eveyr possible beenfit of the doubt (just check how many time si went back and forth on rask, i had wisdom as a slightl villa lena before the ender/visor stuff, i was a bit unfari to cape the last day i guess but otherwis emostly had him as villa)

7) i have made the suboptimal mislunch every step of the way if I am a wolf - d4 people came out gun abalzing to mislunch suibian after sleep flip and i defended them when suibian is obviously a far better mislunch for me

8) i truly believe my find yesterday to clear suibian was sick and something i would not find as a wolf

ladd
11-10-2023, 06:58
9) sleep was TMIing me villa d2 and leaning on me in a way wolves do on villagers (see their vote on ender sheeping me)

ladd
11-10-2023, 07:04
Vote: Monty

I want you all to know I had to google my cereal.

also looking back this was an extremely wolfy post lol


i went back and forth on this post a ton d1 but lesson learned for the future

ladd
11-10-2023, 07:14
i'll go have breakfast

if you plan to ever vote me plz ping me before and wait for me to return

adieu

Jan
11-10-2023, 12:35
There is a part of me that wants to slam the vote just to get the reveal.



This town is colder now
I think it's sick of us
It's time to make our move
I'm shakin' off the rust
I've got my heart set on anywhere but here
I'm staring down myself, counting up the years
Steady hands just take the wheel
Every glance is killing me
Time to make one last appeal for the life I lead

Stop and stare
I think I'm moving, but I go nowhere
Yeah, I know that everyone gets scared
But I've become what I can't be
Stop and stare
You start to wonder why you're here not there
And you'd give anything to get what's fair
But fair ain't what you really need
Oh, can you see what I see

I don't even think this song is all that great, but I had some lines stuck in my head thinking about this game.

ladd
11-10-2023, 12:48
i pinky promise i am a villager

(but really ama, i am not often in f3s as a villager so genuinely am not sure what to say now that i voted lol)

Gemma
11-10-2023, 13:02
Votal 6.2

Ender (1) - ladd (#1310 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053851898&viewfull=1#post2053851898))

Votes are locked.

https://media.tenor.com/pda9dDY_cccAAAAM/ted-lasso-afc-richmond.gif

eod6

Jan
11-10-2023, 13:12
i pinky promise i am a villager

(but really ama, i am not often in f3s as a villager so genuinely am not sure what to say now that i voted lol)

I don't need you right now tbh.

I need Ender to check in, vomit anything he can think of in here, and then I need to decide which side I fall on.
I just owe it to everyone who signed up for this game villagers and wolves alike to let both sides speak.

I hate this situation as much as you do, trust me.

ladd
11-10-2023, 13:45
I am curious what he comes up with cause i think i am pretty impossible to case this game unless you just lean into the paranoia


Btw the vest play was pretty sick and i appreciate these type of plays, def made a game thatvwould have been over a lot sooner way spicier

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 16:49
Friday is a terrible day for me to deal with F3. Literally work into after-work things and now it's 3am.

Vote: Ladd

Has made it easier on me but I am glad that my day start thought was right.

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 16:50
Tbh I prefer being in the face off for f3, makes me less stressed overall lmao.

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 16:51
1) i hate having to explain why i am alive in f3, now it lined up nicely cause of the PRs and visor stuff but ya

Why would Taffy die N1 as wolf if wolves had reason to believe that she could be false hmmmmmmm

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 16:56
I had thoughts on Ladd's D1 sus changing around being sus if you remember.

Also if I was wolf I feel like playing "Keep Visor alive to create paranoia" would absolutely be something I do. Also because it becomes less of a me thing then.

I also don't just case Sui/Sleep > Lead on Sleep > Drop the Sui side of the case later.

I can't say much about my posting because I seem to be easily sussed as town in the first place (Ladd has used me as ml bait in games he got wolf and I randed town. I mentioned it earlier because him D1/2 pushing me is exactly what he did last time he randed wolf too. He knows I'm not the greatest at reading people who pressure him and I also just tip over randomly because I don't have the ability to defend myself super well. But that's all meta so means tosh and all.)

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 16:57
Feeling kinda frustrated I just gave up on that push earlier when he told me off for sussing him just because he pushed on me tbh

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 17:00
I also want to point out that Ladd really wants cred for how Sleep "TMI'd him as villager". Which is actually something I see wolves do where they do something specifically for x reaction and when they don't get that cred or reaction they keep pointing at it.

And he also has tried very hard to buddy up to you with his "Your posting really solidified this f3 for me, you posted so well in f3".

Which is how he's treated you a fuck ton this game.

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 17:03
I also feel like if I was wolf I would've picked one of you to target overnight and actually prepared stuff instead of sitting here trying to work it out.

But again, that's not really something that helps you here. Metametametameta.

EnderWiggin
11-10-2023, 17:05
I need to sleep tbh. I'll be back after sleeping. Sorry. ><

ladd
11-10-2023, 18:00
Why would Taffy die N1 as wolf if wolves had reason to believe that she could be false hmmmmmmm

Oh thanks for the reminder


Having 2 roles able to protect on n1 was a bit weird so wolves would have an easier time buying taffy claim if they knew ender wasnt real :curtain:

ladd
11-10-2023, 18:01
I also feel like if I was wolf I would've picked one of you to target overnight and actually prepared stuff instead of sitting here trying to work it out.

Suibian was generally considered the clearest. Why would you pick me or jan?

ladd
11-10-2023, 21:30
i'll pop in once more in a couple of hours real quick, otherwise i'll be back tomorrow morning

adieu

EnderWiggin
11-11-2023, 00:05
Suibian was generally considered the clearest. Why would you pick me or jan?

Pick you or Jan to target during the day, not kill.

As in I would've prepared material.

EnderWiggin
11-11-2023, 00:07
Oh thanks for the reminder


Having 2 roles able to protect on n1 was a bit weird so wolves would have an easier time buying taffy claim if they knew ender wasnt real :curtain:

I also have played a lot with Taffy and could've told you that claiming like that wasn't really her style as actual PR.

So if I was wolf I'd probably be more worried about another pr that hasn't claimed at all.

Tbh with you if I was wolf idk why I don't just start with Jan/you because the game comes apart a lot more if the claims come into question and stay alive and I get a lot less of "why is the pr not dead yet".

Pointless musing but an interesting thought.

Gemma
11-11-2023, 00:10
Votal 6.3

Ender (1) - ladd (#1310 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053851898&viewfull=1#post2053851898))
ladd (1) - Ender (#1329 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053851920&viewfull=1#post2053851920))

Votes are locked.

https://media.tenor.com/1cIUIlP67RkAAAAM/ted-lasso-jason-sudeikis.gif

eod6

EnderWiggin
11-11-2023, 00:20
jan/suibian i have nothing against, but feel like all the posts they have made so far any decent wolf could make in their sleep in a game this slow. Tho I have a feeling jan will prob end up being my top vilager by the end of the day but who knows


unironically villagery post


I am gonna go out tn

Will be back around eod minus 3 hours to choose who to vote

V
Ladd
Syn
Jan
Taffy


The people posting super villagery this game were actually villagers

Who would have thought eheh


I really wanna see more from rask/wisdom cause cape is prob a villager too



- jan is a pretty obvious villager by posting

This is just into D2.

Every post was either the first post where Ladd says you're obvious villager, until last day phase where he floated the idea you might be wolf.

At that point you aggressively accused him of being wolf if he swapped and he backed down hard and then went back to being all "Look at how villagery Jan is being!" this day phase.

Like I understand y'all have meta between you but even before the end of d1 he was parroting it.

EnderWiggin
11-11-2023, 00:21
vote:el barto

Gonna make a boring place holder but 99% ill be back

I dont say this often but this feels like the kind of game that could use some eod chaos

Directly calls out the idea of changing votes/shaking wagons when making the el barto post. Didn't properly show up for EOD and may not have seen the wagon turn into an actual wagon given it was stuck on 2 votes for a lot of the time. (I need to check this but trying to get as much as I can done before I need to get into things I have scheduled today.)

EnderWiggin
11-11-2023, 00:21
ladd basically feels like himself i don't think anything he's posted is super alignment indicative so far

This post on Ladd from sleep is very lol-partner tbh.

EnderWiggin
11-11-2023, 00:22
Also Sui pointed out that Sleep's laziness indicated it might be that he just trusted his partner to go the distance. Would that really be the case if he just lazily sheeped Ladd onto me and made me a top wagon?

EnderWiggin
11-11-2023, 00:23
Oh yeah taffy super townread me lmao. Yeah idk why I'd N2 that.

EnderWiggin
11-11-2023, 01:08
Zoned out and don't have any more time. I wanted to make some closing remarks but I just... am really annoyed I let ladd go when I was sussing him correctly. (Read changing was around the way he moved me down/sussed me the moment I started getting heat from other people and moved Rask down after he started getting heat. Both were people he called town and then was just like "I thought about it and changed my mind.")

Jan
11-11-2023, 02:55
A heads up that I will end this game in 8-10 hours.

If you have anything of importance to present do it.

Not certain what will sway me more and will look through some more stuff in the morning.

glgl

Jan
11-11-2023, 06:18
Oh yeah taffy super townread me lmao. Yeah idk why I'd N2 that.

sadly not true. taffy wanted you dead until you claimed pr. after that everyone townread/ignored you.
and if you killed taffy you did it to make sure you have a reason to be alive later in the game.



Also Sui pointed out that Sleep's laziness indicated it might be that he just trusted his partner to go the distance. Would that really be the case if he just lazily sheeped Ladd onto me and made me a top wagon?

If sleep is your partner that knows you have a claim clearing you today then the answer is yes.
and if ladd is a wolf then they didn't know for sure and it was a fine pile-on.


Directly calls out the idea of changing votes/shaking wagons when making the el barto post. Didn't properly show up for EOD and may not have seen the wagon turn into an actual wagon given it was stuck on 2 votes for a lot of the time. (I need to check this but trying to get as much as I can done before I need to get into things I have scheduled today.)

yeah this is why I said d2 that ladd was the most likely bus vote on el barto.

You both had eod1 that easily could be from a wolf. you voting monty last second to protect el barto and ladd with the easy distancing vote before el barto became an actual wagon.



Pick you or Jan to target during the day, not kill.

As in I would've prepared material.

I think that you as a wolf would feel reasonable to simply get the hammer today as long as people believe tammy dying was okay.


I also want to point out that Ladd really wants cred for how Sleep "TMI'd him as villager". Which is actually something I see wolves do where they do something specifically for x reaction and when they don't get that cred or reaction they keep pointing at it.

And he also has tried very hard to buddy up to you with his "Your posting really solidified this f3 for me, you posted so well in f3".

Which is how he's treated you a fuck ton this game.

I agree.

I think the later half he would do as either alignment because if he is a villager it is simply the truth and either way he wants to get me on his side.
A little bit of brownnosing never hurts there.

The sleep tmi is something I have noticed.

With all of this critique to your posts don't get me wrong I am still unsure. I think as a wolf your perception of your own game would be less off.
And I somewhat believe what you're saying and your frustration.
I am just not sure if your frustration comes from ladd turning on you today and you having to play or from you being stuck in f3 when you expected to die etc.
I think my best way to solve this is to either get a villa read on you or not.

Ladd to me is good at mimicking his playstyle as wolf (if he wants to) and the best way is to find his reads and if he was pushing wolves or villagers etc (and more importantly clearing wolves for bad reasons).
But this was basically a lone wolf game which means I simply cannot use that tool.

But if I can lock you as villa within the next couple of hours then my read on him is less important (and neither is the mechanical view)

Gemma
11-11-2023, 06:45
Votal 6.4

Ender (1) - ladd (#1310 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053851898&viewfull=1#post2053851898))
ladd (1) - Ender (#1329 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053851920&viewfull=1#post2053851920))

Votes are locked.

https://media.tenor.com/rxXfnamI7cQAAAAM/ted-lasso-tv-series.gif

eod6

ladd
11-11-2023, 08:14
I am here in 20 mins

23

ladd
11-11-2023, 08:48
idk i think my case i already quoted from d2 on ender is petty spot on but i'll try to expand a bit:


This vote is still the worst. Justifications and also completely weirdly at odds with the tone of it. Even acknowledges it might be a copypasta.

I think I'll ignore if Monty was in the game or not because I can't be bothered to go remember which game it was to check. And also I forget things all the time so I can't *really* fault Monty if he just plain forgot that post.



This reaction to being called out about his post tho feels kinda off. Like a "Why single out meee!" kind of statement.



These are his only posts in thread so far, he cares more about how his vote is perceived than adding to any other content.

The next post is a meme response to my meme response which was... funny enough I guess but not the point.

And then again:


Monty's actual game talk has been (into page 3 already) only about his vote.



And again. I'm actually curious when he makes his first read/talk/whatever that isn't about the vote.

Then finally on page 6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850706&viewfull=1#post2053850706) he comments about posts other than the vote. (Which is already over half the day done.)

A lot of it is vague statements with a statement he has no "strong reads" and a pockety statement about "mindmelding scarily with a catch" with Taffy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850707&viewfull=1#post2053850707). (Notably the wolfreads didn't contain Rask. He makes no statement about this.)



I'll note that if I remember right I also townread Monty early on that game.

Not a strong argument but a dissimilarity to here.

And that's about all of Monty's posts.

Like idk about you but I'm not feeling like Monty cares about solving this game aside from making sure his vote doesn't look bad. He hasn't even tried to push on Rask. He's made more comments about how Rask reads his vote than that.

he calls every single monty post wolfy, while everything started from this:


Vote: Monty

I want you all to know I had to google my cereal.

which he then claimed was a serious vote


again, this is the classic example of a wolf turning a rvs vote in a full push

also, his push on monty is the same to the one he made on syn in this game (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154781-Motion-Detect-15er-GAME-THREAD) where they just stuck in a tunnel on a vilager and called everything from them wlfy


(i am sorry i tried to find the post but with this iso function it was impossible and i was wasting too much time)

24

ladd
11-11-2023, 08:51
Eod1:


Votal 1.5

Monty (3) - Rask (#38 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850576&viewfull=1#post2053850576)), Barto (#67 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850606&viewfull=1#post2053850606)), Wisdom (#185 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850726&viewfull=1#post2053850726))
Wisdom (3) - Visor (#147 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850686&viewfull=1#post2053850686)), Sleep (#229 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850770&viewfull=1#post2053850770)), Ender (#256 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850797&viewfull=1#post2053850797))
Barto (2) - Jan (#73 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850612&viewfull=1#post2053850612)), ladd (#175 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850716&viewfull=1#post2053850716))
Rask (2) - Taffy (#11 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850548&viewfull=1#post2053850548)), Monty (#274 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850816&viewfull=1#post2053850816))
Jan (1) - Suibian (#9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850546&viewfull=1#post2053850546))
Taffy (1) - Syn (#232 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154906-Cereal-killer-mafia?p=2053850773&viewfull=1#post2053850773))

https://media.tenor.com/FVL2P5gxMnAAAAAM/phew-close.gif

Day 1 has ended.


I was gonna change votes but this is a 3-way tie and I like that.


EVEN BETTER


How could you Syn


Vote: El barto

sigh


Vote: Monty

Who saw this top 10 anime betrayal coming


thats all ender posted before sniing monty at :00

he did not ackwoledge the bart wagon AT ALL (and he had at least 5 minutes to do so, since barto was tied last 5 mins of the day)

he votes wisdom/monty, ackwoledge the vots on rask but says nothing on barto


again, classic wolf defending their teammate by attacking another villager instead of getting their hands dirty with a defense

ladd
11-11-2023, 08:56
other point:

ender voting you out yesterdy was optimal fo a wolf becaus ethen you have rask in f3 AND you break up the jan/suibian that are hard v reading each other

me voting out rask was suboptimal, i was gonna get into a super hard f3 regardless. i was prob gonna lose you/me/suibian and if i brought ender to f3 i coudlnt really imagine you would turn on him (i guess i could have hoped ender would vote you but i mean if that was the case...why did i vote him 6 hous into the day lmao). if i bring rask in f3 and mislunch you in f5 its a lot easier for me


i think ender said i didnt cause of you last post, but that was post was like at 2 am, i def had no plan on showing back up to change my vote lol

26

ladd
11-11-2023, 08:56
and still on the argument of f3 votes - ender was probably 50-50 to vote me/you

i could have just waited and there was a chance i win by doing nothing

27

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:00
really good post by ender, this gets to what i took issue with from monty but in more words than i could be bothered to use. just feels like monty is stalled in neutral

w/w eheh


ladd basically feels like himself i don't think anything he's posted is super alignment indicative so far

i dont think sleep would out of their way to call me specifically null when i was getting villa read (mostly) but ymmv


my memory of tammy as mafia was mostly her rolling over and dying but this was over a decade ago now (i will never stop trolling her about this)

don't think she'd be the type to bus but hard to defend a person who barely posted anything. i have played with her more recently than anyone here and think she's just town though



if someone bussed i'm not gonna be able to find them today and every time i try to do something like that it ends up being a throw


vote: ender

sheeping ladd tbh

"sheeping ladd" is pretty unlikely to be w/w iyam

and they sheeped me on ender because they KNOW that ender has the claim so this vote probably gives them credit for end game(in fact i fell for it and called them not w/w d2)

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:00
- i think ladd's POE in #455 is basically fine tbh and where i was at, I have a slight concern over cape but that's only a 5th name anyway and i think this game is probably just an easy one for town hopefully



again with the pocket

29

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:04
Also Sui pointed out that Sleep's laziness indicated it might be that he just trusted his partner to go the distance. Would that really be the case if he just lazily sheeped Ladd onto me and made me a top wagon?

yes because you had the claim lol



Oh yeah taffy super townread me lmao. Yeah idk why I'd N2 that.

they died cause they claimed joat ldo



Zoned out and don't have any more time. I wanted to make some closing remarks but I just... am really annoyed I let ladd go when I was sussing him correctly. (Read changing was around the way he moved me down/sussed me the moment I started getting heat from other people and moved Rask down after he started getting heat. Both were people he called town and then was just like "I thought about it and changed my mind.")

my change on you was correct so i won't comment on it. it only makes sense to consider from the pov of villa you which isnt a real pov



but jesus, i gave rask every possible benefit of the doubt all game while they were pushed (i am sorry for the mislunch btw, i think you were super findable but i was just not getting to ender until f3). if you read my iso i changed my mind on them a ton of times and said both d2/d3 that i don't want them lunched at the end


30

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:05
then we have the visor nk - visor was pushing ender/wisdom, if i am the wolf i keep him alive at least 1 more day to push 2 villagers

but instead he was 1) right on ender and 2) the perfect excuse for ender's fps play because visor is a spk, knows ender and voted the wolf d1


now if you are a villager and a pr and you gave a vest without knowing that the vest popped, would you really soft it in your 1st post of the day? what if visor is a wolf and just doesnt say anything and then kills you

31

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:10
I like cape for villa more than sleep, i think


i have never been a good cape reader but i have been skimming a couple of wolf games on MU (i havent tried this hard in a ww game in a while lmao) and he is even more awkward as a wolf

Here I can mostly follow his thoughts and his jumping around and besides his terrible post about ender yday I have never really been pinged by him



sleep is a borderline impossible read for me this game cause they just don't feel very into it. So by default they are kinda the jolly when I have other people I feel good about being villa. Not a big fan of their pushes d1 (mostly the syn push) but thats all I got

otoh some posts make me think if they would really play it like this as a wolf so i dunno


sleep posting seemed slightly wolfy mostly cause the way they went on about being suspected everytime for silly reasons...doesnt really line up with how they played so far

throwing around that someone bussed but not really following it up with ~anything in that sense and instead pushing on cape doesnt inspire me with confidence either

cape pop in was w/e

I admit I am a sucker for rask posting, everytime they post I question if they are really a wolf lol but i think jan/suibian are both more be villa than rask still + you/syn knowing rask well and still thinking they are a wolf



I wouldnt really write off cape/sleep being w/w due to them voting each other today since if thats the team they have no way out anyway and no interactions before today seem non w/w afair


vote:sleep

gonna make a placeholder since it worked well last time :curtain:

i dont think rask/cape are w/w so either sleep is a wolf or something went terribly wrong

personally i dont think rask is a wolf anymore (and if they are, they can only be with sleep or suibian) but if syn/visor still think so they know rask better than me so go with god. I doubt I'll be voting them


vote:sleep

Sorry but the more i read the more you feel the odd one out and i get the feeling you regret subbing in the game (which is prob true regardless of your alignment i guess)


Gotta go for a bit but i have basically the week off work so i may even stay awake for eod who knows

Bbl

31


if you think i had decided to buss my whole team this probaby arent gonna change the needle for you but I'll quote them anyway


i think they show i was genuinely evaluating sleep and not really going "let's buss and credit"

32

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:11
i think i am done, if you have questions i am here another hourish then i gotta go fo like 3 hours minimum


33

Jan
11-11-2023, 09:13
Sideways susses PZelda for a fake read.



Rask calls them out for voting Dya after that for no discernable reason.



Start of sus on me



When asked who the wolves are. (No Pzelda)



Changes vote to me when winds turn against me hard.



To Raskol pointing at HK/Logic/Pzelda as a trio.



Implies only HK should be removed.



More of above



Wagon on Pzelda solidifies. This is their response.



Joins Logic wagon when it spawns in.

---

And that's about all the relevant posts.

I do find their position around PZ weird, but I admit I did have the impression they tied me to PZ more which...

Actually doesn't exist in their ISO.

the post you were referring to from the other game.

I looked through anything ender related until halfway through d2 (and he started the game thanking every other post which was beyond annoying to click through :P)

Enders playstyle in that game is casting a wider net I think.
And after a weird defense of his partner, he was very willing to bus pzelda 2/3 through d1.

I don't think he had a good chance to bus el barto this game with the way the wagon slowly evolved and didn't have a case attached to it.

Jan
11-11-2023, 09:22
i think i am done, if you have questions i am here another hourish then i gotta go fo like 3 hours minimum


33

The real question is how much of a coward I am.

The cowards move is to vote for you because that would be the strict poe for the game.
And being wrong on you would be a whatever move.

Voting out ender as pr would be an actual feelsbad. I have to believe the whole story of vesting AND shooting Visor in the same night.
When he could have vested visor and just shot anywhere else and still get the same cred while having reduced somebody from the field that he was afraid of.

Pretty sure in that world he just has to ignore visor and hope ppl get paranoid because sinking a shot into the vest later is really awkward because visor was only confirmed in the game because he confirmed soaked a shot.


On the other hand I have no doubt in my mind that you played the more impactful game overall.

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:29
The real question is how much of a coward I am.

The cowards move is to vote for you because that would be the strict poe for the game.
And being wrong on you would be a whatever move.

Voting out ender as pr would be an actual feelsbad. I have to believe the whole story of vesting AND shooting Visor in the same night.
When he could have vested visor and just shot anywhere else and still get the same cred while having reduced somebody from the field that he was afraid of.

Pretty sure in that world he just has to ignore visor and hope ppl get paranoid because sinking a shot into the vest later is really awkward because visor was only confirmed in the game because he confirmed soaked a shot.


On the other hand I have no doubt in my mind that you played the more impactful game overall.

i mean i did the yolo move, so you can too lol


just ask yourself if the game makes more sense if i am a wolf or if ender is

there is also this visor post to give you strength (that was after ender claim):


am i a moron if when rereading d1

it makes me want to kill ender

LOL

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:32
like if you re read d1 (i am sure you already did) and read it as an ende/sleep team it makes so much sense

if you re read d1 and you read it as a sleep/ladd team it doesnt really make much sense (imo)


sure i bussed, but why didnt sleep buss too then? maybe i thought barto wouldnt become a wagon but then why do i just say its a plceholder, that gives me no credit

i have possible excuse to vote monty instead, why don't i just leave my vote on monty?




everyone this game had me as a villager, the only reason why we are even in this situaiton is cause of mech

Jan
11-11-2023, 09:35
i mean i did the yolo move, so you can too lol


just ask yourself if the game makes more sense if i am a wolf or if ender is

there is also this visor post to give you strength (that was after ender claim):

you are playing me like a fiddle right now.

I enjoy go big or go home sooo much.


But legit your timing today was pretty spot on if you are a wolf.
Because I very much thought the ender wolf world is something we need to talk about but you are 80% the wolf.
And right now I am lost and basically eating out of your hand and I do not know is this fruit is poisoned I just know it tastes so god damn sweet.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZDNsbzA1NXpwZnJpcWlybDMzdnh6OHJrZ3YxMzc1Zm1leGhxdGk2NiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/qwny3dRsI8bW8/giphy.gif

Live footage of Ladd talking to me on this day.

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:35
and like if my posting doesn't convince you to go over the mechanics look at my "mechanical " play last couple of days


yesterday remember that suibian was actually a hot topic and ender wanted them lunched the previous days (as did ask)

why do i as a wolf come in and pull up the receipts to hard clear them?



and then it's now f3. I won't argue about the suibian nk cause i probably would have killed you or suibian here if i was a wolf rather than have to play a me/you/suibian f3 but i have absolutely no reason to vote so early as a wolf


it's not like it was a situationi where ender was voting em for sure at all. hell, he was voting you just yesterday




and imagine what happens if ender actually gets you to go over yday? f3 is me/ender/rask and ender wins that 1 99%

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:36
you are playing me like a fiddle right now.

I enjoy go big or go home sooo much.


But legit your timing today was pretty spot on if you are a wolf.
Because I very much thought the ender wolf world is something we need to talk about but you are 80% the wolf.
And right now I am lost and basically eating out of your hand and I do not know is this fruit is poisoned I just know it tastes so god damn sweet.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZDNsbzA1NXpwZnJpcWlybDMzdnh6OHJrZ3YxMzc1Zm1leGhxdGk2NiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/qwny3dRsI8bW8/giphy.gif

Live footage of Ladd talking to me on this day.

it's not posioned :P

i am just saying things that objectively make sense



did ender even make 1 sound arguemnt for why i am a wolf lol

Jan
11-11-2023, 09:40
Fuck me.

GG

You win (either way).

Vote: EnderWiggin

Sorry to the village if I went from hero to zero today.
This was more struggle than any of you can imagine. I really didn't want to try this game and in the end I had to.

Don't hold back the mockery if I am wrong. I do enjoy a good gif. :P

Gemma
11-11-2023, 09:41
Stop posting.

Gemma
11-11-2023, 09:41
Votal 6.5

Ender (2) - ladd, Jan
ladd (1) - Ender

https://media.tenor.com/vRvwVyYSlgUAAAAM/ted-lasso-coach-beard.gif

Ender is yeeted. Flip incoming.

Gemma
11-11-2023, 09:42
Ender was:
Cereal Killer 1-shot Vest Giver, in the form of:
Asesino en cereal Sigma
Cereal? Pfauh! You spit out cereal, what fetid, unwelcomed effluviums, what snickling, brabbling, wickedly waggling, uninvitable pleonasms, nor wheat nor oat nor rice shall accost your finedangling senseness! Begone, you say, and you prepare to torch them all to Hades. A diet of meat, for you, morning or evening, meat, yes! More meat! You are cereal killer Sigma.

::)::

A night like any other, you are wandering an idle street when you think you hear a voice mumbling something about… despots? How despots? Their words sound grandiose and absurd, but you are shaken. You immediately rush home, and by the time the front door closes to your back you are drenched in sweat. Something has awoken in you, as though a key were turned in a lock deep within the recesses of your soul, and you can never go back. Or, maybe… If you destroy that voice. Maybe then, you will find peace. Yes. You must. You must destroy all cereals. But first, a healthy morsel of meat for your best friend.

Once per game, during the night phase, you may target a player to give them a bulletproof vest.

You win when all cereals have been incinerated or nothing can stop the same.

===============================================================

Flavor fakeclaim
Vanilla cereal, in the form of:
Avena arrollada
Sometimes you are cooked into breakfast goop; when you are, you are excellent: with a sloop of maple syrup, or when buffeted by molasses, and your best friends are often many types of fruits, but never citrus. Other times, you find yourself packed into the deep bottom of a stoneware baking dish, suffused with fructal juices, or maybe melting into a soft chocolate goo on a cookie tray. Your name is rolled oats, and a little milk brings out the best in you.

::)::

You’ve always been afraid of death. Please don’t kill me, you whisper prayerfully to the night, but you know it ignores you. Sometimes a strange longing takes you, and for a moment you believe you’re about to meet your end. “Aquí está,” you say out loud. “Los asesinos en cereales me llevan.”

One day, as the rising sun peeks through your huddled cardboard covers, you have an epiphany, or at least a thought. “Soy le defensore de les despoetices,” you proclaim convincingly. “Y nadie puede silenciarme. ¡Adelante, mi arma es mi voz!” You emerge from your dusty fortress into the dawnlit lands and set out ayonder with tongue in hand. You may be a little bland, but you certainly have an appetite.

You win when all threats to cereal have been eaten.

Only wolf left alive is the mod, town wins.


Jan's role PM:
Vanilla cereal, in the form of:
All bran
Sometimes you look in the mirror and wonder why you are looking in the mirror, or you listen to recordings of your voice simply to feel unbearable. Your thoughts wander, and suddenly you are somewhere in Poland, or Czechia, and you are having intercourse with a stranger, or you are thinking about your lover having intercourse with a stranger, or you are looking at the curtains and wishing there were a pair of watchful eyes behind them in the shadows and that they belonged to your lover. Soviet soldiers are rapping on your bedroom door, but you are not embarrassed. You have been denounced. They will take you to a concentration camp full of dissidents, where you will dig tunnels and press your ear against the soil to listen for your lips’ whispers, which you imagine come from a ghost haunting the earth, or from yourself but in the past and buried far away. Maybe you taste better with strawberries, or maybe that’s just because strawberries taste better. You are all bran.

::)::

You’ve always been afraid of death. Please don’t kill me, you whisper prayerfully to the night, but you know it ignores you. Sometimes a strange longing takes you, and for a moment you believe you’re about to meet your end. “Aquí está,” you say out loud. “Los asesinos en cereales me llevan.”

One day, as the rising sun peeks through your huddled cardboard covers, you have an epiphany, or at least a thought. “Soy le defensore de les despoetices,” you proclaim convincingly. “Y nadie puede silenciarme. ¡Adelante, mi arma es mi voz!” You emerge from your dusty fortress into the dawnlit lands and set out ayonder with tongue in hand. You may be a little bland, but you certainly have an appetite.

You win when all threats to cereal have been eaten.

ladd's role PM:
Vanilla cereal, in the form of:
Weetbix
A brick of wheat is you. A cattail is your next door neighbor, yet some venture to eat you dry and raw. In the Kangaroo continent, you are eaten by the twos and threes and counted as the most famous cereal in the country. You can be crushed into a hundred speckles of yourself or eaten whole, either accelerating or delaying your rapid transformation, upon the introduction of liquids, into a textureless excremound. You rank as the most likely cereal to be sworn at by Gordon Ramsay. You are Weetbix.

::)::

You’ve always been afraid of death. Please don’t kill me, you whisper prayerfully to the night, but you know it ignores you. Sometimes a strange longing takes you, and for a moment you believe you’re about to meet your end. “Aquí está,” you say out loud. “Los asesinos en cereales me llevan.”

One day, as the rising sun peeks through your huddled cardboard covers, you have an epiphany, or at least a thought. “Soy le defensore de les despoetices,” you proclaim convincingly. “Y nadie puede silenciarme. ¡Adelante, mi arma es mi voz!” You emerge from your dusty fortress into the dawnlit lands and set out ayonder with tongue in hand. You may be a little bland, but you certainly have an appetite.

You win when all threats to cereal have been eaten.

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:42
nice vote jan


ggs all

sick fps play ender

Gemma
11-11-2023, 09:42
Ggs

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:43
and thx for hosting ofc

Visor
11-11-2023, 09:44
sick vote and f3 fellas

well played all

thanks for hosting gemma

wish i did better the day cape died, kinda just punted that lol

Wisdom
11-11-2023, 09:44
Holy smokes, well played Jan!
Thanks for the game!

Jan
11-11-2023, 09:45
nice vote jan


ggs all

sick fps play ender

Fuck me.

You did so well today.

I wanted to do this for the last 24 hours but locking in was so hard.

Us not finding the wolf at all made so much sense if we could not find the wolf until f3.

Gemma
11-11-2023, 09:45
dvc: https://discord.gg/nXFDntvB4
wolf chat: https://discord.gg/9y8SGUaxp

ladd
11-11-2023, 09:46
Dvc link?

Jan
11-11-2023, 09:47
Holy smokes, well played Jan!
Thanks for the game!

Letting you die was by far my biggest regret this game.

I didn't realize that the eod time changed because clocks had changed for me and I had you so locked in as villager with you latest posts and you only got any heat because the immediate poe mostly claimed pr.

I soulread you d1 and confirmed it for myself just a little too late.

Gemma
11-11-2023, 09:49
I'll write some postgame thoughts later, thanks everyone for joining. Well played all, very impressive f3 from Jan and ladd. Big kudos to Ender for going for the big plays and fighting the good fight despite being in a massive hole from eod1 onwards. Really, mega job Ender, your posting in f3 was good too and I hope you're proud of yourself despite the loss.

Syn
11-11-2023, 09:53
gg wp

Gemma
11-11-2023, 10:29
Modthoughts:
Apologies to the players. The vest role was not intended as a kind of fakeout or somesuch with the idea of fooling town into thinking a wolf was mech clear. In that regard, I didn't anticipate villagers having so little paranoia about a claimed vestgiver not dying and I think I put more on town than was fair or reasonable (tbh I was more worried about cases like a potential f5 where the vestgiver might be able to leverage their claim into winning the game on the day without having to survive a night, or both roles alive+unclaimed until the day before f5). I don't think I could have ever predicted the exact things that happened this game to create a gamestate where Ender wasn't being sussed for staying alive through 2, 3, 4 nks, but it's still me who put the role in the game so the responsibility is entirely mine. Needless to say it's not a role I'll be using again.

I do think village could have approached the claim from much more of a 'is vesting/instapopping n1 something Ender would do/had motivation to do as a wolf' angle than a 'where does this role fit in the setup' angle,' as I think the latter is sort of just wifom outgessing the mod type stuff whereas the former actually had a lot pointing towards it being the case and is more something you can actually think about logically and come to a real conclusion on.

Jan's reasoning in f3 re: the role/setup was super good and accurate, and was the type of post I expected him and maybe others to make much sooner in the game. Obviously that didn't happen. I think if the fakeclaim doesn't happen day 2 then Ender's play doesn't pay off the way it did - Syn likely doesn't claim that dayphase whereas Ender is probably still forced to claim, has no cover from other villagers and is just outed essentially the next dayphase. I think in other worlds where the wolfteam is more active, villagers have a much easier time world building, reading for unalignments, etc and probably end up with much more pointing at vestgiver being a wolf than they did than this game where Ender was largely solo. But ultimately the problem is with the role imo and if it wasn't the fakeclaim in this game it coud've been something else leading to a similar situation for town and that's my bad.

All that said, thank you everyone keeping the game fun and chill. I enjoyed the experience and most of you seemed to as well for the most part! Thanks to the subs, thanks to rask for helping with contacting folks, and most of all thanks to Cuth.

Jan
11-11-2023, 10:51
Modthoughts:
Apologies to the players. The vest role was not intended as a kind of fakeout or somesuch with the idea of fooling town into thinking a wolf was mech clear. In that regard, I didn't anticipate villagers having so little paranoia about a claimed vestgiver not dying and I think I put more on town than was fair or reasonable (tbh I was more worried about cases like a potential f5 where the vestgiver might be able to leverage their claim into winning the game on the day without having to survive a night, or both roles alive+unclaimed until the day before f5). I don't think I could have ever predicted the exact things that happened this game to create a gamestate where Ender wasn't being sussed for staying alive through 2, 3, 4 nks, but it's still me who put the role in the game so the responsibility is entirely mine. Needless to say it's not a role I'll be using again.

I do think village could have approached the claim from much more of a 'is vesting/instapopping n1 something Ender would do/had motivation to do as a wolf' angle than a 'where does this role fit in the setup' angle,' as I think the latter is sort of just wifom outgessing the mod type stuff whereas the former actually had a lot pointing towards it being the case and is more something you can actually think about logically and come to a real conclusion on.

Jan's reasoning in f3 re: the role/setup was super good and accurate, and was the type of post I expected him and maybe others to make much sooner in the game. Obviously that didn't happen. I think if the fakeclaim doesn't happen day 2 then Ender's play doesn't pay off the way it did - Syn likely doesn't claim that dayphase whereas Ender is probably still forced to claim, has no cover from other villagers and is just outed essentially the next dayphase. I think in other worlds where the wolfteam is more active, villagers have a much easier time world building, reading for unalignments, etc and probably end up with much more pointing at vestgiver being a wolf than they did than this game where Ender was largely solo. But ultimately the problem is with the role imo and if it wasn't the fakeclaim in this game it coud've been something else leading to a similar situation for town and that's my bad.

All that said, thank you everyone keeping the game fun and chill. I enjoyed the experience and most of you seemed to as well for the most part! Thanks to the subs, thanks to rask for helping with contacting folks, and most of all thanks to Cuth.

I don't think it was a design flaw. With 3 "confirmed villagers" there was no real reason to push him earlier.
You could not expect taffy to make that fps play which bought ender a full dayphase. (Otherwise the same evaluation would have happened in final 5 instead).

You always give prs the time to resolve and pray that you have enough time to kill them after if needed.
This one just got really close.

And in the end this game was really really hard for wolves.
In most games wisdom cape and rask never get touched during the day because they were all fairly clear villagers and they only died because enders fps play was really well done. (and even in final 3 he had really great tone after ladd voted him).

Jan
11-11-2023, 10:56
I expect nothing less than 48 hours worth of memes folks. lettuce go

https://e2f8q5b9.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/happy-the-office-GIF-downsized.gif

And now my friend is the time for this. :P

EnderWiggin
11-11-2023, 11:04
GG WP.

Very well done Jan. Honestly wanted to break you and ladd up earlier because I had a feeling this exact f3 would look like this but couldn't find the time/ability to =P

In retrospect I really should've wasted a turn and left pr claims alive but that's all hindsight =P

Raskolnikov
11-11-2023, 11:43
And now my friend is the time for this. :P

Haha yeah.

Gg WP. Both you and Ladd played this F3 very well!

Sick play Ender ;)

Tx for hosting Gemma.

Totally not Taffy
11-11-2023, 13:06
Modthoughts:
Apologies to the players. The vest role was not intended as a kind of fakeout or somesuch with the idea of fooling town into thinking a wolf was mech clear. In that regard, I didn't anticipate villagers having so little paranoia about a claimed vestgiver not dying and I think I put more on town than was fair or reasonable (tbh I was more worried about cases like a potential f5 where the vestgiver might be able to leverage their claim into winning the game on the day without having to survive a night, or both roles alive+unclaimed until the day before f5). I don't think I could have ever predicted the exact things that happened this game to create a gamestate where Ender wasn't being sussed for staying alive through 2, 3, 4 nks, but it's still me who put the role in the game so the responsibility is entirely mine. Needless to say it's not a role I'll be using again.

I do think village could have approached the claim from much more of a 'is vesting/instapopping n1 something Ender would do/had motivation to do as a wolf' angle than a 'where does this role fit in the setup' angle,' as I think the latter is sort of just wifom outgessing the mod type stuff whereas the former actually had a lot pointing towards it being the case and is more something you can actually think about logically and come to a real conclusion on.

Jan's reasoning in f3 re: the role/setup was super good and accurate, and was the type of post I expected him and maybe others to make much sooner in the game. Obviously that didn't happen. I think if the fakeclaim doesn't happen day 2 then Ender's play doesn't pay off the way it did - Syn likely doesn't claim that dayphase whereas Ender is probably still forced to claim, has no cover from other villagers and is just outed essentially the next dayphase. I think in other worlds where the wolfteam is more active, villagers have a much easier time world building, reading for unalignments, etc and probably end up with much more pointing at vestgiver being a wolf than they did than this game where Ender was largely solo. But ultimately the problem is with the role imo and if it wasn't the fakeclaim in this game it coud've been something else leading to a similar situation for town and that's my bad.

All that said, thank you everyone keeping the game fun and chill. I enjoyed the experience and most of you seemed to as well for the most part! Thanks to the subs, thanks to rask for helping with contacting folks, and most of all thanks to Cuth.

I think you're being too hard on yourself, players will always find ways to use any mech to their advantage and you can't be expected to predict everything.



My wolfrange is "Yes" if that helps.

It really is, very well played :sweetheart:

Thanks for the game everybody!

ladd
11-11-2023, 14:15
Modthoughts:
Apologies to the players. The vest role was not intended as a kind of fakeout or somesuch with the idea of fooling town into thinking a wolf was mech clear. In that regard, I didn't anticipate villagers having so little paranoia about a claimed vestgiver not dying and I think I put more on town than was fair or reasonable (tbh I was more worried about cases like a potential f5 where the vestgiver might be able to leverage their claim into winning the game on the day without having to survive a night, or both roles alive+unclaimed until the day before f5). I don't think I could have ever predicted the exact things that happened this game to create a gamestate where Ender wasn't being sussed for staying alive through 2, 3, 4 nks, but it's still me who put the role in the game so the responsibility is entirely mine. Needless to say it's not a role I'll be using again.

I do think village could have approached the claim from much more of a 'is vesting/instapopping n1 something Ender would do/had motivation to do as a wolf' angle than a 'where does this role fit in the setup' angle,' as I think the latter is sort of just wifom outgessing the mod type stuff whereas the former actually had a lot pointing towards it being the case and is more something you can actually think about logically and come to a real conclusion on.

Jan's reasoning in f3 re: the role/setup was super good and accurate, and was the type of post I expected him and maybe others to make much sooner in the game. Obviously that didn't happen. I think if the fakeclaim doesn't happen day 2 then Ender's play doesn't pay off the way it did - Syn likely doesn't claim that dayphase whereas Ender is probably still forced to claim, has no cover from other villagers and is just outed essentially the next dayphase. I think in other worlds where the wolfteam is more active, villagers have a much easier time world building, reading for unalignments, etc and probably end up with much more pointing at vestgiver being a wolf than they did than this game where Ender was largely solo. But ultimately the problem is with the role imo and if it wasn't the fakeclaim in this game it coud've been something else leading to a similar situation for town and that's my bad.

All that said, thank you everyone keeping the game fun and chill. I enjoyed the experience and most of you seemed to as well for the most part! Thanks to the subs, thanks to rask for helping with contacting folks, and most of all thanks to Cuth.

it was a fun game :y:


an unfortunate series of events mean ender had cover until f3 for not being dead

tbh i think if he nightkills jan he wins the game. maybe even nk 1 of me/jan/suibian before killing syn (alas n3) so then he has cover for not dying until f3 and he wins



so ya close game

katze
11-11-2023, 16:55
lol i almost certainly lose that f3

i dont think the role is problematic fwiw gemma

not enough cereal killers tho :curtain:

Montmorency
11-11-2023, 16:57
Interesting, a minimalist setup - 1-shot vig vs. 1-shot vest-giver, with an edge on Mafia side for FPS claims.

Ladd actually put together a great case, heavily emphasizing Ender's scummy D1 (which had been washed away by D2-3).

Ladd accomplished what I could not in our shared Org game a year ago. gg

But did Ender really vest Visor N1 and stack onto me? I didn't catch the reveal if there was one.

Montmorency
11-11-2023, 17:05
I see, it was a vest&shoot play. Very risky to start with. There's a few ways this could have gone differently with a true N1 kill.



EnderWiggin — 10/27/2023 11:44 PM
Mmmm
Town!Ender probably gives it to Visor
Maaaaybe Ladd

Gira — 10/28/2023 12:50 AM
okay yeah we gotta kill one of them, non-negotiable
boy do i regret peacing out at eod


EnderWiggin — 10/28/2023 1:12 AM
Gira, do we think we can survive 1 more day if I pull the
Give vest to Visor, shoot visor play

Gira — 10/28/2023 10:20 AM
sure why not yolo
we're in a hole already so let's live dangerously

EnderWiggin — 10/28/2023 10:38 AM
Gira Carries kill to Visor
Ender gives vest to Visor
(I have become invested)
This could backfire hilariously
But what's life if you're not willing to be a lil crazy

Gira — 10/28/2023 11:41 AM
if we fall flat on our faces that in and of itself is iconic

ladd
11-11-2023, 17:18
lol i almost certainly lose that f3

i dont think the role is problematic fwiw gemma

not enough cereal killers tho :curtain:

You would have mislunched me dont lie eheh



I think this was my first f3 as a villager, i have been in f-5 and f-7 but idr any f3s as a villager. Achievement unlocked i guess

Cuthillius
11-11-2023, 18:14
Interesting, a minimalist setup - 1-shot vig vs. 1-shot vest-giver, with an edge on Mafia side for FPS claims.

Ladd actually put together a great case, heavily emphasizing Ender's scummy D1 (which had been washed away by D2-3).

Ladd accomplished what I could not in our shared Org game a year ago. gg

But did Ender really vest Visor N1 and stack onto me? I didn't catch the reveal if there was one.

ender vested and shot visor, syn shot you

Hally
11-11-2023, 19:21
damn ggwp everyone

i definitely would have gotten that wrong lol

amazing F3

Sleep
11-11-2023, 19:27
gg all, great effort ender, couldn't get it over the finish line but this was always going to be an uphill battle after D1

sorry i couldn't be more useful, i simply had no spark this game and not being able to be present for EOD didn't help. i kind of feel like even if i had played a better game not a lot changes - felt like the yeets that happened were more or less inevitable, at best i could have bought myself another day or two


i don't regret going for the risky N1 play - in hindsight, maybe it wasn't the right call, but at the time with the info we had i think it made sense - i knew ender was going to get pressured a lot for his day 1 and i wasn't really going to be able to townclear myself. in that light we needed to take a risk to have a hope of winning, but the difficulty was always going to be the final day. i'm not sure there was a true path to victory after day 1 but it was fun to try

ladd
11-11-2023, 19:40
The n1 play was def the best move imo

As i said if you mix up the nks you probably win and even like this it was super close

With no n1 play ender dies d2 prob and then game would have probably been over in 2-3 days after

Zack
11-11-2023, 23:46
gg


:curtain::curtain::curtain::curtain::curtain: :curtain:
:curtain: :curtain: :curtain: :curtain: :curtain:https://i.gifer.com/BtV.gif
:curtain:


:curtain: :curtain:


:curtain: :curtain: :curtain:

Cape90
11-11-2023, 23:53
GGs everyone! Should have considered that Ender was fake, just felt like 2 town PRs felt right.

Gemma
11-12-2023, 00:17
yes the night actions were

N1:
Ender vests Visor
Syn shoots Monty
Gira shoots Visor
N2:
Ender shoots Taffy
N3:
Ender shoots Syn
N4:
Ender shoots Visor
N5:
Ender shoots Suibian

Gemma
11-12-2023, 00:24
gg all, great effort ender, couldn't get it over the finish line but this was always going to be an uphill battle after D1

sorry i couldn't be more useful, i simply had no spark this game and not being able to be present for EOD didn't help. i kind of feel like even if i had played a better game not a lot changes - felt like the yeets that happened were more or less inevitable, at best i could have bought myself another day or two


i don't regret going for the risky N1 play - in hindsight, maybe it wasn't the right call, but at the time with the info we had i think it made sense - i knew ender was going to get pressured a lot for his day 1 and i wasn't really going to be able to townclear myself. in that light we needed to take a risk to have a hope of winning, but the difficulty was always going to be the final day. i'm not sure there was a true path to victory after day 1 but it was fun to try

it was very likely not what i would have done as a wolf there but i think it was the move that gave the team best winning chances in hindsight, i think later kills could've gone different ways probably shooting into jan going into f3 wins more often than other kills, but yeah n1 not a mistake imo. and thanks for playing we all have off games so don't be too hard on yourself, your posts were good when you were making them

Suibian
11-12-2023, 00:45
gg wp everybody

so glad that Jan and Ladd were able to sync up in f3! That was amazing!

I very much enjoyed playing with all of you. It was nice that even though it was a 48/24, it was slow enough paced that I could fit it into my schedule.

Thank you for running it Gemma!