View Full Version : Kylo Ren's Banana Time Mafia
i appreciate this read but i don't think its something that works for me
That's cool, it might have been badchart like I said haha
nah lissa is fine i think
early v read on jan, some pingy stuff that pick up on eod (i think cba to check timing) and then vote them mid d2
very blunt tone this game
holistically you could argue it is going along the line of typical wolf bus given trajectory of read but it doesnt really read that way to me, limited setup in a way that isn't super a->b in an obvious way which i like
My thing with Lissa is that she went to bat for me on good reasons (eod being 8am for me) and then started pushing Jan at a time during eod where it seemed everything was volatile and she had every ability to just let me get wagoned by cape/waza or just not mention Jan and instead she did the opposite. I understand only I can see that as hugely pro villa but I have to clear her I think
jan is a hard to catch wolf on d1 imo, he is very good at emulating his tone (at least to my eyes)
usually catch him later game when he doesn't have his little pet pushes or is more sideline commentary than anything else, though theres plenty of games where hes sideline as villa but he has enough of that spark that you can get there on him even if he gets heat
My thing with Lissa is that she went to bat for me on good reasons (eod being 8am for me) and then started pushing Jan at a time during eod where it seemed everything was volatile and she had every ability to just let me get wagoned by cape/waza or just not mention Jan and instead she did the opposite. I understand only I can see that as hugely pro villa but I have to clear her I think
yeah that was dotting some is and ts for me
i don't think lissa is a wolf and it would have to be a convincing argument to sway me at this point in time. i was already getting there mid d2 onwards
jan is a hard to catch wolf on d1 imo, he is very good at emulating his tone (at least to my eyes)
usually catch him later game when he doesn't have his little pet pushes or is more sideline commentary than anything else, though theres plenty of games where hes sideline as villa but he has enough of that spark that you can get there on him even if he gets heat
Part of me is sad at myself that I called Jan a strong villa d1 and pushed Waza cause being wrong feels bad
Part of me is like "yeah but you also did good stuff too like call Vanta and Cape villagers for good reasons stop being hard on yourself"
and then part of me is like "im either playing bad or fine and you know what, either one is ok cause the game has been fun"
Let me think for a minute, if I clear Lissa and Visor (raisins ir thread resistance something) and jans shooter, there is just one more slot to clear.
Sounds like a plan?
Lettuce work on finding a villa in maple/sunbee/ladd
Hmmm, did Rask leave out ender because he knew Ender shot :curtain:
probably not but itll be funny to point back to if so
Why am I letting Ender apart I dunno.
Ill wait for the hoody claim before posting more nonsense
this post is weird with teh above tbf
shrug
random aside:
been reading this lately on a whim:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Swords
its an anthology of short stories/novelletes?
quite well put together, some really good stories in there would rec
Raskolnikov
08-16-2025, 18:33
this post is weird with teh above tbf
shrug
Nah its just I realised I had let Ender apart staring at the alive player list (maybe because I was leaning town there I dunno)
Anyway, Sunbaes posts feel good toDay, just the level of thinking and openmindness I expect from their town play.
As for considering a wolf!Ender gambit, i dont think its worth considering just now :curtain: (but anyway everything looks covered in Visor/Sunbae posts)
Back to slanking. (Ngl, I hope its just Maple/Ladd, will reeval when ladd comes back)
Raskolnikov
08-16-2025, 18:35
Note the timestamp Visor btw, I didnt react to your post, we crossposted (maybe its less weird then? Dunno)
Raskolnikov
08-16-2025, 18:43
Also Visor, factors in the fact I was hooded by Vanta and there was just one kill N1. I mean with my thread position its just a loosing gambit from wolf!me compared to getting another villager killed.
Raskolnikov
08-16-2025, 18:43
Now apero time. Ciao
Also Visor, factors in the fact I was hooded by Vanta and there was just one kill N1. I mean with my thread position its just a loosing gambit from wolf!me compared to getting another villager killed.
fair enough
I'm trying to decide is this is a badchart.jpg read or a good observation but my initial take reading today is Rask coming in with a post about using my wall to say ender wolf and one of ladd/maple when the wolves know for a fact that ender killed jan is >>>rand villa for Rask. If rask is a wolf either Raskwolf knows villa Ender is gonna be clear so starting the day with Enderwolf makes little sense or Rask/Ender are together in one of the ploys I talked about in which case the plan is to send Ender deep and starting the day with Enderwolf makes no sense.
I also am making the note that Waza specifically thought I was wolfy in part because I couldn't get to Raskvilla and waza thought it was so obvious that it was weird I couldn't.
honestly, i had the opposite thought of him having left ender out of the one list because he knew
idk that i want to put real weight in it, and his posting at sod felt pretty real, but i def have been thinking about it some
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 3 - Votes from post 680 through 765
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3MapleEnderWiggin (11 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867202&viewfull=1#post2053867202)), Raskolnikov (23 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867225&viewfull=1#post2053867225)), Visor (27 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867221&viewfull=1#post2053867221))
4Not VotingLissa (11), Maple (1), Sunbae (12), ladd (0)
Sorry i had no connection. Will be around in 10ish hours
I am looking at d2 wagons and uh why isnt visor just a wolf
Mislunching waza there is a crime afaict
Lissa i have vague recollection being not paired with jan
i dont really think sunbae/ladd are w/w for incredibly silly reasons
you are right ~75% of the time with that approach.
Not your biggest achievement, chief.
which was a thought i had before this post but this post would also make it funny if it was the case lol
but also fits with it not being
I am looking at d2 wagons and uh why isnt visor just a wolf
Mislunching waza there is a crime afaict
Lissa i have vague recollection being not paired with jan
tbh waza made a couple of pretty wolfy posts at that eod imo. he for sure shouldn't have gone over though. jan came in and claimed that item super last minute and we all kinda flailed around. i was coming back to waza being a villa even pre claim but didn't really know where to go, shoulda just committed on jan bc really the timelines where he actually used it and died as a wolf were not that high chance
i shoulda moved somewhere else than waza earlier tho
anyway
rereading that eod to look at visor posts there and jans last vote is ~mildly interesting
anyway visor felt pretty good in the moment re: jan and in general with how that eod played out
he didn't push on jan at it as hard as i was thinking but
Alrighty, i am still trekking this morning. Ill catch up later and see
Just going off what i remember i think 2 wolves in visor/sunbae/maple and everyone else villa
meow meow
im gonna post tmr afternoon
If I was going to bus Jan.... I'd just bus Jan lol
meow
let's see if I just kinda look at the larger game picture
3 Maple EnderWiggin (11), Raskolnikov (23), Visor (27)
4 Not Voting Lissa (11), Maple (1), Sunbae (12), ladd (0)
raskol v, visor v
not ender/maple not sunbae/ladd
(to very sporadically continue my reread of the game)
hopw does ender react with "glad we agree on something"
just to turn around and scumread the same post and vote maple based on it.
and all that in reaction to a reaction to the treestump.
Calling out knights readslist is pointless because you know his flip already.
agreeing with that callout just to turn on it does not make it any better.
Not even wolfy because it feels too sloppy to be a wolfplay. Just wrong on every level.
hmm
If I was going to bus Jan.... I'd just bus Jan lol
ye
was just kinda surprised because it was slightly different from how i remembered/how it felt in the moment
Yeah I thought about it a bit
There's a few worlds
If w/v
Gave it to villager who is not likely to kill him, or someone they think they convince. Or possibly someone who if they do shoot, is still suspect due to the argument itself, so it doesn't actually clear them if it doesn't work
. If it works great, you survive and get an ally and probably can still get the other fella killed if you die because they didn't kill you. If you die people may suspect that it was w/w setup and still potentially kill them
If w/w
Killed to send deep, or you don't kill and try to align together or something
Banking on ppl thinking killed wolf therefore v
Jan was getting heat but he wasn't outed, and the wolves shot cape and not lissa or me so in that sense it's possible that they weren't playing for Jan to lock die
Jan did village read ender iirc and might've seen it as a way to potentially get both worlds either way
Worth thinking about
yeah there's some possible layers to it
think from a w jan/v ender pov, the candidates are basically ender or raskol right if you want to give it for real, everyone else will just blast you i think
honestly, giving it to a villager there is REALLY bold. we'd have gone into mylo if that kill didn't go off on him; that kill actually bought us a miskill. (well. yeah i mean like. there's another one of those things out there. not even sure if it's optimal to use tn? i mean if we hit maybe, if we miss it's an interesting q. anyway)
i mean i think he was obv gonna die today if not last night
so like it's high risk high reward and honestly doesn't really feel that high reward, lol, i'm hard pressed to believe it accomplishes a lot
i mean if he actually lives mylo obviously that's big upside but idk why he would think it was likely there tbh
i had the thought of them giving it to cape and then just having ender fakeclaim it if the kill goes off and not if it doesn't and try to use it as a vouch from the dead villa but giving cape that shot seems questionable i can't imagine that lives the night in many worlds lol and giving it to ender w of that world just makes a lot more sense, more control over the outcome with no clear downside relative to giving to cape i can see
wait oh i will say actually
no i'm wrong just there because genuinely giving it to another wolf is a GAMBLE, you could also get yourself killed too lol
so in the w/w world the shot probably was actually done by cape
although, it feels reasonably possible the wolves have /some/ sort of bomb investigation honestly
also it's weird for the wolves to kill into their target of it bc it could waste kp if jan was a bomb (obv we know this not to be true now but)
deja vu is such a strange sensation
meow meow
im gonna post tmr afternoon
https://media.tenor.com/GLp36DghAZoAAAAM/annoyed-deep-stare.gif
ye
was just kinda surprised because it was slightly different from how i remembered/how it felt in the moment
when jan claimed it seemed self resolving to me, either he gives it out and most likely dies (or dies the next day), or doesn't give it out and dies the next day, theres very little room to ever live at that point barring a massive turnaround in posting
he wasn't 'outed' but its hard to see a path for him to survive post that point
i probably should've listened when waza talked about working with me to kill maple, but i thought he had good wolf equity and his posts at that eod had a wolfy self focus
until ladd or maple posts something of substance i don't think i have anything left to say.
both seem like wolves and everyone else seems like villas :shrug:
until ladd or maple posts something of substance i don't think i have anything left to say.
both seem like wolves and everyone else seems like villas :shrug:
I wont be home for a while still (and may be too exausted to read the thread until tomorrow morning anyway)
But why would i be a wolf lol
I voted jan twice more than i would have if we were w/w. Why would i care to shade/vote him d1 and leave with my vote on him d2 when just villareading him would be the easiest thhing in the world
Also look no offense to anyone but waza getting mislunched in the 1 day i wont be able to be around seems incredibly sketchy
I wont be home for a while still (and may be too exausted to read the thread until tomorrow morning anyway)
But why would i be a wolf lol
I voted jan twice more than i would have if we were w/w. Why would i care to shade/vote him d1 and leave with my vote on him d2 when just villareading him would be the easiest thhing in the world
Also look no offense to anyone but waza getting mislunched in the 1 day i wont be able to be around seems incredibly sketchy
explain to me who else it is then?
rask? i'll listen
sunbae? i'll listen
ender? hell I will listen
show me
explain to me who else it is then?
rask? i'll listen
sunbae? i'll listen
ender? hell I will listen
show me
Its not rask or lissa from what i read back
Ender i thought was clear but ngl reading eod i am not as sure
Why wouldnt sunbae be a wolf with his d1 clear of jan? I have yet to read his big d2 posts but i dont see why it cant be him
Just doesnt seem like u are looking at all angles like yiu usually do as a villager. Saying its me/maple seems pretty lazy iyam given i just afked a dayphase and maple is maple
Dunno friendo
(With that being said i am still travelling for some hours still so ill do my work when i m back before eod and give myself the right to change my mind kn anything i have said today :curtain:)
Its not rask or lissa from what i read back
Ender i thought was clear but ngl reading eod i am not as sure
Why wouldnt sunbae be a wolf with his d1 clear of jan? I have yet to read his big d2 posts but i dont see why it cant be him
Just doesnt seem like u are looking at all angles like yiu usually do as a villager. Saying its me/maple seems pretty lazy iyam given i just afked a dayphase and maple is maple
Dunno friendo
(With that being said i am still travelling for some hours still so ill do my work when i m back before eod and give myself the right to change my mind kn anything i have said today :curtain:)
whats up with enders eod?
sunbae could totally be a wolf - if you make the argument i will listen. i thought he posted well d2 (and i'm not sure ive seen him post those walls as a wolf LOL)
also i think that big post is probably an important post to read lol
i sympathise with his reaction to village reading jan and feeling like he should've got there earlier but i do think that jan is a hard wolf to catch early so i might be putting my perspective too much into his then
i think he has posted better than you, frankly
rask is possible but i think now i have cooled my jets on him a little i think he is just having a shocker given how he has posted this day phase and i don't get the impression he is faking having a bad game, but ymmv on that read
you also v read jan d1 lol
such a weird argument to make
why does your v read not matter but his does?
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 3 - Votes from post 680 through 785
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3MapleEnderWiggin (11 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867202&viewfull=1#post2053867202)), Raskolnikov (23 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867225&viewfull=1#post2053867225)), Visor (34 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867221&viewfull=1#post2053867221))
4Not VotingLissa (17), Maple (2), Sunbae (12), ladd (5)
you also v read jan d1 lol
such a weird argument to make
why does your v read not matter but his does?
Idt they are the same thing - i clearly expressed doubt on jan, voted him d1, shaded him after he came back when he told me he would out me in my place or after he was done with the dentist or something like that. I cba to read back but my d1 v read on jan was mostky based on me liking sunbae and sheeping him iirc
(And ended with my vote there d2)
God knows i have v read wolves d1 a thousand times bit if i was a wolf woth jan v reading him like sunba edid is what id do
Also idk friendo you are the one stating me/maple is a wolf and everyone else is a villager confidently bit i feel like in the past you put players like benneh/sunbae through much more work before stating stuff like that so easily when they have been wrong
Shrug.jpg
Reminds me of your weird confidence on maple being a wolf (which they may very well be, just i usually dont see u say stuff like that to a player like maple)
I know i said id sheep sunbae on jan but his posting seems a bit too commentary mode to me
The posts themselves are fine, just feel he is kinda sidelining a bit
Waza/cape/rask vvv
Jan/sunbae vv
Ender/lissa/vanta v
Logic/maple/visor w
Done i solved the game :curtain:
Idt they are the same thing - i clearly expressed doubt on jan, voted him d1, shaded him after he came back when he told me he would out me in my place or after he was done with the dentist or something like that. I cba to read back but my d1 v read on jan was mostky based on me liking sunbae and sheeping him iirc
(And ended with my vote there d2)
God knows i have v read wolves d1 a thousand times bit if i was a wolf woth jan v reading him like sunba edid is what id do
Also idk friendo you are the one stating me/maple is a wolf and everyone else is a villager confidently bit i feel like in the past you put players like benneh/sunbae through much more work before stating stuff like that so easily when they have been wrong
Shrug.jpg
Reminds me of your weird confidence on maple being a wolf (which they may very well be, just i usually dont see u say stuff like that to a player like maple)
thats definitely true, but theres also games where i just v read players like yall and never look back
there was some game recently i townread and hard defended you and sunbae despite pushes to the contrary and people trying to get yall killed (a mash?)
in part i think maple is a wolf because they just aren't doing anything villagery (or at all, really)
ya you did shade jan a bit, but its not anything that says oh yall have to be unaligned
its just regular posting
i have given you specifically a hard time this game (and i still think your ender stuff is weird man)
and rask
sunbae admittedly i have not, but mostly because i've found his posts to be generally pretty good, i just dont see a point in saying so because he isn't in any danger (and if im wrong i don't look bad lol)
explain to me why maple is v, if you think that?
explain to me why maple is v, if you think that?
I dont, i just didnt get where the confidence came from d1 when u pushed them and it pjnged me as w/w tbh
Now thinking they are a wolf is more underdtandsble from poe
Just feel like u are lacking a bit in exploration
Sorry gotta run now
ladd, if you can go into detail on ender and sunbae i would appreciate it
I dont, i just didnt get where the confidence came from d1 when u pushed them and it pjnged me as w/w tbh
Now thinking they are a wolf is more underdtandsble from poe
Just feel like u are lacking a bit in exploration
Sorry gotta run now
its mostly that i feel they are only popping in to survive - even on d1 they weren't posting anything of actual substance
manti can as both alignemnts post word salads (see like 4/5 of their recent games on the org, particularly the village ones where they are like oh i am doing a new playstyle learning how to village again etc) and i think in one they got niked n1
i like to think (at least back in the day) i was actually pretty good at reading manti - (lol my recent game with them but yolo i love fake claims sometimes)
if i look at it from an outside perspective, they just aren't doing anything to solve the game and i know they are capable of playing like that as a wolf in part (and this is an awful argument but w/e) i played a turbo against them pregame in which they pretty much had the same playstyle of not really saying anything - they might post a random comment/go for some tonal play but theres nothing actually there
and its not like pretending but its fake, its just nothing
i think if manti was a villager even on d1 we wouldve seen more garden pathing or something that isnt just lissa defend me
i just think if they were a villager there would be an attempt even if it sucked and i never felt like there was an attempt even on d1 so it just seemed like they were a wolf to me
yeah tbh i dont reaaaally know where to go like most people sound at minimum decent
and i have a few people i dont really mind saying "sure they seem well enough" but i dont really have a spot of confidence at all
not to mention the EoD kicks my ass cause i cant even like show up to sheep people smh
well, maybe i will tmr actually cause i may or may not be up early
nyaaa
so anyway, i actually have ideas of setup spec and think a world of 2 is technically possible and that potentially whoever it wasw that talked about all that shit TMId that but that would be a bit of a cowboy read i thinks
cmon man this is rubbish
yeah tbh i dont reaaaally know where to go like most people sound at minimum decent
and i have a few people i dont really mind saying "sure they seem well enough" but i dont really have a spot of confidence at all
not to mention the EoD kicks my ass cause i cant even like show up to sheep people smh
well, maybe i will tmr actually cause i may or may not be up early
1. I do not think Rask and Visor are wolves together. Even with the early Rask vote on Visor which could be early w/w theater, the pressure has continued into the second day goes in both directions. Specifically I think visors post about Rask where he says he went “mask off” locks in it as not w/w. Note this is also the first post of visors that made me realize he was likely just a villager (probs the vilalgeriest post in the thread). Rask also has a post in #320 where he cases visor and uses visors case on Waza being bad (which wasn't Visors case, it was mine) that looks earnest in its attempt to kill Visor.
2. The way Raskol defends Maple in #221 (“maple was just lacking at the time”) in an effort to shade Enders vote on Maple was something I noted. Rask also had a post in #241 pairing up Lissa/Maple as “coordinated” and then again in #262 calling the wolf team Ender/Lissa/Maple and yet again in #299 asking Ladd “why logic instead Maple” to vote. The ways that Rask is shading Maple in some posts and defending in others strikes me as something unpaired because to me Rask would be consistent with either defending or shading, not oscillating between the two.
3. As for why I have a Raskol wolf read in general it's a combination of Rask misattributing the case of waza being bad to Visor in an effort to push Visor near eod, being told that wasn't Visor, and then rather than shifting to thinking I'm wolfy then (the author of the Waza case) Rask just changed it to the Cape case from Visor as the reason Visor was wolfy. Additionally, I thought the shift from “why logic instead of maple” to #337's post about thinking Logic's behaviour is more likely to come from a wolf than not. What changed between #299 to #337? On top of that, I am a sucker for listening to people who just flat out say “hey this person is my friend but they are obviously wolfing to me” the way Visor did about calling Rask going mask off.
4. Shifting over to Ender, we have Ender doing a catchup stint and going at Vanta into Maple. This gets sponged by Cape who goes on to call Ender too sloppy to be a wolf and Ladd who says he thought Ender was fine but then reread the posts and wow they are so wolfy. Which brings me to my one in Ladd/Ender feelings. Ladd's comments about Ender came after a couple of other people (visor, cape) were discussing Ender. Either a.) Visor and Ladd both found Enders posts extremely wolfy which I want to focus on and give credit to or b.) Ladd saw Visor and Cape shading Ender and wanted to poke that along. I find it unlikely that villager Ender and villager Ladd exist in this situation because Ender is pinging multiple people who play a lot with him if Visor/Cape/Ladd are villa and would likely be a wolf if so, but I also don't think villager Ender gets pinged by those 3 if they are pure either. Given that I think Visor and Cape are villagers, this brings me to Ladd/Ender having a wolf between them. Yes I know Cape was calling Ender villagery but it was because it was too wolfy/sloppy to be a wolf and I'm still counting it.
5. I talked earlier about why I think Cape is a villager so I wont rehash that one right now. It's not a lock (nothing in a game where people are posting less than 30 times is a lock) but I feel good about it for where we're at.
7. In the event that Ender is a wolf, I do not think Maple is. In the event that Rask is a wolf, I don't think Lissa is. Just two small things between those groups.
8 . I've talked in depth about Waza (also idk if I mentioned it but I've seen the “double voter” thing done in both alignments by Waza so that didn't move the needle). I think there's a solid chance of wolf there but I also think there is for Lissa and Jan there too. Only room for one though if my Ender/Ladd pair and my Rask/Maple pair works.
9. The reason I think if rask v then maple w is my general feelings that a.) rasks takes on pushes that i typically think are too early or ~rand end up being right and b.) if rask is a V he was pushing logic, maple, visor at eod and was unable to really get anyone to bite on maple even though people were voting visor and logic at the same time. So when Rask is consistently pushing Maple at eod and can't get anyone to talk about Maple but can get votes on logic/visor then I think its just because maple is a wolf. Now, my current idea is that Rask is a wolf but yeah.
Now I'm not sitting here saying this is airtight. It's day two with low info chop and very few posts. I reserve the right to say “lol nah thats wrong” and yolo elsewhere. But this is the process I came to to land where I'm at with my gamestate stuff.
read this and see specifically the maple rask stuff at 9
(i am also biased and think that 3 is a v good read)
sunbae sticking to his cape guns has also been good to me
idk man
you gotta show me why hes a wolf
I am a bit skeptical after reading that Ladd has gone from "why isnt visor just a wolf" to trying to convince Visor im a wolf without having done a full catchup yet. But! I will say that with Ladds "why isnt visor just a wolf" and Raks being on Visors case for 2+ game days that I will go back and read Visor in isolation for my due diligence. I do suppose that if I say Im a sucker for people wolf reading their friends strongly and pointing to Visor doing so about Rask, then I really should look at it the same way when Rask is doing it too. I think it was just visors language being so direct ("mask off" post) that pulled me to that direction.
I am a bit skeptical after reading that Ladd has gone from "why isnt visor just a wolf" to trying to convince Visor im a wolf without having done a full catchup yet. But! I will say that with Ladds "why isnt visor just a wolf" and Raks being on Visors case for 2+ game days that I will go back and read Visor in isolation for my due diligence. I do suppose that if I say Im a sucker for people wolf reading their friends strongly and pointing to Visor doing so about Rask, then I really should look at it the same way when Rask is doing it too. I think it was just visors language being so direct ("mask off" post) that pulled me to that direction.
he's extremely villagery, handsome and charming :curtain:
i agree! unfortunately historically that hasnt prevented him from being a sneaky sneaky woof tho :crown:
I am a bit skeptical after reading that Ladd has gone from "why isnt visor just a wolf" to trying to convince Visor im a wolf without having done a full catchup yet. But! I will say that with Ladds "why isnt visor just a wolf" and Raks being on Visors case for 2+ game days that I will go back and read Visor in isolation for my due diligence. I do suppose that if I say Im a sucker for people wolf reading their friends strongly and pointing to Visor doing so about Rask, then I really should look at it the same way when Rask is doing it too. I think it was just visors language being so direct ("mask off" post) that pulled me to that direction.
Thats not what happened tho friendo
I am arguing why he hasnt given u a deeper look when i expext him to as a villager
(But i also see no reason why you cant be a wolf)
Visor, ill get to it wrt ender/sunbae when i have time to settle down a bit sorry
Thats not what happened tho friendo
I am arguing why he hasnt given u a deeper look when i expext him to as a villager
(But i also see no reason why you cant be a wolf)
Visor, ill get to it wrt ender/sunbae when i have time to settle down a bit sorry
ah gotcha
hope the trip was good btw
But also ngl when i skimmed back on todsy and saw you/visor both comjng pretty strongly to a ladd/maple solve it also just gives me bad vibes all around
I understand thinking i could be a wolf given i have been afk all day but there still enuf stuff itt to make you doubt i am a wolf (esp given jan flip). The confidence and lack of exploratiin is what weird me out
Just feel like at least 1 of you 2 is a wolf who is trying to take the path of least resistance tbh
(To be clear, this is not a defense of maple. I am just saying how it looks from my pov)
ah gotcha
hope the trip was good btw
Yea ton of fun thx but sleeping in huts in the mountains for 4 nights is tiring lol
I have washed once in 5 days lol
I am pretty tired
Thats not what happened tho friendo
I am arguing why he hasnt given u a deeper look when i expext him to as a villager
(But i also see no reason why you cant be a wolf)
Visor, ill get to it wrt ender/sunbae when i have time to settle down a bit sorry
i mean heres literally straight up my quotes about both you and sunbae in the STS mash:
"Ladd's a villager imo
I don't understand why they are a wagon "
"@Haru Okumura
Lettuce mason "
"right
ladd is not a wolf
gamer dude could be a wolf but i refuse to kill him d1, and he has had some decent posts
champ is like a villagery rock
apoc is apoc
haru is fine
lend v
rask v
gemma v
yellow v
tchaz yolo v
lissa, yikers pal "
i know its a mash and v different game
but i don't massively tinfoil every game :P
this isn't quite as much as my dya wall from rocks lmao
But also ngl when i skimmed back on todsy and saw you/visor both comjng pretty strongly to a ladd/maple solve it also just gives me bad vibes all around
I understand thinking i could be a wolf given i have been afk all day but there still enuf stuff itt to make you doubt i am a wolf (esp given jan flip). The confidence and lack of exploratiin is what weird me out
Just feel like at least 1 of you 2 is a wolf who is trying to take the path of least resistance tbh
(To be clear, this is not a defense of maple. I am just saying how it looks from my pov)
tell
me
why
maple
is
a
villager
im not even trying to kill you today because i accept i could be wrong there, but i really don't think im wrong on maple
prove it otherwise pal
Yea ton of fun thx but sleeping in huts in the mountains for 4 nights is tiring lol
I have washed once in 5 days lol
I am pretty tired
who would've thought your bathing routine improved eh
:curtain:
tell
me
why
maple
is
a
villager
im not even trying to kill you today because i accept i could be wrong there, but i really don't think im wrong on maple
prove it otherwise pal
I am cool with killing maple, i never once said they are a villager
In fact i agree with you that their post about there being 2 wolves is bad
But even if they are a wolf, i dont think it really matters no? Its just delaying finding the harder wolf to tomorrow which is fine cause i need time lol
If yall think i am a wolf (has anyone said why) then i guess its fineish but i know i am not a wolf so i am solving with taht pov and from my pov the game will be played after maple death
And yes i know i have only been reactive and havent shown much work but like i said that will have to wait until i get home, sleep and have time to sit and read
Being reactive requires much less brain power
i mean heres literally straight up my quotes about both you and sunbae in the STS mash:
"Ladd's a villager imo
I don't understand why they are a wagon "
"@Haru Okumura
Lettuce mason "
"right
ladd is not a wolf
gamer dude could be a wolf but i refuse to kill him d1, and he has had some decent posts
champ is like a villagery rock
apoc is apoc
haru is fine
lend v
rask v
gemma v
yellow v
tchaz yolo v
lissa, yikers pal "
i know its a mash and v different game
but i don't massively tinfoil every game :P
this isn't quite as much as my dya wall from rocks lmao
Sure, i just dont remember you ever not being a bit tinfoily in any normal we ever played together and u were a villager
So again, it just pings me shrug.jpg
Otoh maybr you are trying way harder than this game would require to as a wolf. Idk i will decide tomorrow what I think
There is also waza being mislunched in the one day i am afk
Idk maybe i am egocentric but idt he would ever get mislunched with me around this game (esp with eod time being good for me) and i cant help but feel you ending the day there is wolfy sorry
And then d3 comes around and you/sunbae are handshake.jpg the wolves are maple/ladd, waza wagon was pure, the gui voting the wolf in 3/2 wagons is obviously a wolf, ez game. I hope you can see why it pings me
(I am exagerating ofc, but again i am trying to explain my pov and my reaction)
(Ok gonna conserve the rest of my posts for my re read tomorrow)
Sure, i just dont remember you ever not being a bit tinfoily in any normal we ever played together and u were a villager
So again, it just pings me shrug.jpg
Otoh maybr you are trying way harder than this game would require to as a wolf. Idk i will decide tomorrow what I think
maybe you should read sunbae yourself
There is also waza being mislunched in the one day i am afk
Idk maybe i am egocentric but idt he would ever get mislunched with me around this game (esp with eod time being good for me) and i cant help but feel you ending the day there is wolfy sorry
And then d3 comes around and you/sunbae are handshake.jpg the wolves are maple/ladd, waza wagon was pure, the gui voting the wolf in 3/2 wagons is obviously a wolf, ez game. I hope you can see why it pings me
(I am exagerating ofc, but again i am trying to explain my pov and my reaction)
(Ok gonna conserve the rest of my posts for my re read tomorrow)
that i can understand
i don't really care about your waza argument - i have no idea of any history between you guys
i would read my posts at that eod if you want to get an understanding of where i was at and why i voted where i did, though i think i already explained it today already
i will reread sunbae again i suppose
I hear that ladd. I will do a full reread today with an open mind. My hope is that most of the game are handshake.jgp because it's just been boxed out. You have ender shooting a wolf, lissa and visor pushing jan at eod2, hoping that maple is a wolf who isnt really posting much content which clearing rask from being a wolf if so, and then I'm left with you.
Now this isn't a lock which is why I'll reread later once I get more free time. I could see scenarios where ender is a wolf and either claimed the shot from Cape or had a wolf ploy to just actually kill Jan to go deep. I could see scenarios where Rask is a wolf and Maple isn't. I could see scenarios that Visor or Lissa voted Jan with full intention of moving off.
It's just as of right now I think those scenarios are just less likely than "maple is a wolf and you're the least villagery remaining". Which, hey, I thought you were villagery d1 and then you were afk day 2 so maybe it's just an absence thing and I'll realize my mistake if so as you post more.
What I'm going to do is reread the thread with the following possibilities in mind:
- Does the thread made sense if the wolves are something like Ender/Visor/Jan. This would be ultra hard world.
- Does the thread make sense if the wolves are something like Visor/Lissa/Jan. Also a difficult world.
Both of those worlds would have me turned around on day 2 pretty bad thanks to a visor misclear but I do want to touch on them because I now know Waza was a villager who was clearing Rask hard (even going so far as to say I am wolfy for not having Rask clear but having Visor clear) and Rask has been mostly pushing Visor for days. So due diligence on the hard worlds are going to be helpful.
Once I knock those out I'll have a better idea of where to go from there. I am hoping the answer is Maple/Jan/x but we'll see
finally got a three star stamina fuck yes
thought it would never happen lol
hell yeah! i have a single 3 star spark horse after all this time but it is a 3star stam goldship so i cant complain
trying my hardest to make a 9x with my borrows but ugh it is not happening
hell yeah! i have a single 3 star spark horse after all this time but it is a 3star stam goldship so i cant complain
trying my hardest to make a 9x with my borrows but ugh it is not happening
i got very lucky with having 2 3 star powers (i didnt even know i had them lol until i started learning about sparks)
i've been running 12 Power and 6 speed (i have two 3 star speeds and a 3 star wit)
if i could get like 9 power and 9 stamina thatd be nuts.
the grind continues
i wish the carrot income wasnt so godawful though
carrot income is miserable and so much of the game after a certain point boils down to "you cant really get better until you pull more of the good ssr cards" which is pretty frustrating. definitely an example of a good game made worse by being a gacha :(
carrot income is miserable and so much of the game after a certain point boils down to "you cant really get better until you pull more of the good ssr cards" which is pretty frustrating. definitely an example of a good game made worse by being a gacha :(
yeah its annoying to feel like i am capped because of lack of resources that are SO sparce
like its 30 per day, which is 2 pulls every 10 days.... insane given how many pulls you need to uncap/mlb let alone get trainees
if you get lucky in time trials you get..... 3. they could quadruple the rate and it would probably still feel slow but its just glacial.
i know they do these big events and stuff but just making playing on a regular basis worthwhile seems to be something they dont care about.
--------
sunbae can you talk a little about rask when you get a chance, just like big picture or something
scrolling through his iso rn and i still kinda hate a bunch of posts lol
just sat down for my reread so ill get back to you
d1/d2 recap of things i found noteworthy for each player during reread (raw data, no conclusion yet)
Rask:
- "I made a note on Ladd, I'll reveal it later"
- says Jan needs more votes in passing
- votes me, everyones favorite villager
- votes lissa once visor does
- doesn't like enders vote on maple (again, defending maple just "lacking")
- unsure what to do with visor now, calls maple/lissa coordinated
- asks ladd why vote logic instead of maple
- votes visor
- questions vanta for their jan vote, says its out of nowhere
- pushes visor more wondering why he was pushing vanta and cape, says its too proactive for villa visor prior to eod
- begging people to vote visor at eod. ends with 3-2-2 logic visor maple. Logic flips v.
- starts d2 pushing visor
- says visor isnt trying to find peoples alignment, just pushing people waiting for a case to take off
- but does like the callout of jan
- says if visor villa we need to look into maple/lissa/jan then votes lissa
- hates to admit it but visor might be villa, lissa still has wolf equity as does maple, likes ender, wishy washy on me, waza/ladd town
- has ladd villa based on d1
Ladd:
- becomes double voter, votes Jan
- waza comments that his nonchalance when voting Jan is wolfy as there would be pressure there to be right (also a too much lmao read)
- calls visor wolfy, says theres no reason cape cant just be a wolf pushing a villager or a villager with a right read
- says he thought ender was fine then reread the posts and wow they are so wolfy
- says is ok with jan, visor, cape, vanta, waza, me, rask
- now thinks visor is a wolf
- thinks lissa is villa, doesnt wanna lunch cape because he thinks waza is villa and waza likes cape villa, changed his mind again on ender and likes the recent posts about maple, calls jan v because i called jan v, has visor wolfy still
- votes logic
- changes his mind on sheeping jan v and calls him in commentary mode
- disappointed in jans reentry
- confident in rask/cape/waza villa
- votes lissa, defends visor, calls rask/visor v/v but also doesnt know if that works. says one concern is visor/maple being w/w cause the push feels w/w
- votes jan
Visor:
- Calls cape/vanta w/w with the idea that cape knows vanta is most common miskill and as a villager would wait and see whereas the early vote points to knowing they are gonna get pressured and getting on early.
- defends maple to ender (manti hasnt done anything alignment indicative)
- pushes back on my jan v read a smidge then asks me about ender and maple
- votes lissa
- votes maple
- starts day 2 pushing rask, #400 is the "mask off, painted the words IM A WOLF" post
- calls maple a wolf, then asks jan about vanta dying given vanta was wolf reading jan
- is confused about ladds take on ender and flip flopping
- says maple is in their slanking wolf game, d2 for jan is looking worse because theres nothing against thread position. like he's worried about who to push instead of just pushing wolf reads
- votes maple with a cmon do something
- likes lissa voting jan (more stick your neck out than her normal wolf game)
- votes jan after lissa extensive casing of jan w
- questions ender voting lissa and where the jan read went
- calls waza/jan w/w
- votes waza
- votes jan
- votes waza
ender
- defends rask from waza but calls waza v for the read
- votes vanta, then changes course and votes maple
- calls jan wolfy for "this his down to end it with idk if wolfy" in comments about ender
- says cape, rask, me, waza likely has zero wolves. maybe vanta too.
- says jan feels wolfy, maple feels wolfy, slight red to visor, lissa is w/e
- reiterates that maples latching onto "capes omgus" is just hardcore aggro wolfing
- pushes back at jan and rask defending maple
- calls rask town
- starts day 2 reiterating rask town, votes visor, calls cape town too
- reiterates visor wolf using a previous game as evidence where visor was weirdly aggro towards him but then pulls it back after actually checking and pulling the quotes
- continues to call rask v and then calls lissa sus
- calls jan/maple feeling of being paired
- votes lissa after lissas extensive jan casing
lissa
- defends maple to ender with the same "hasnt done anything alignment indicative" reasoning as visor did earlier
- votes cape
- agreed with ladd that jan v, but disagrees on cape v and still thinks cape is a wolf
- agreed with ladd that jan is in commentary mode and is probably somewhat >rand wolf
- doesnt wanna kill cape anymore, maybe ender but meh not really
- votes logic
- not villa reading visor strongly anymore
- explains she didnt wanna killa maple eod1, "liked a couple of her posts"
- thinks rask/visor is v/v, thinks im a villager, thinks jan is a wolf and votes jan
- does a whole post quoting some jan posts saying she still thinks jans a wolf
- does it again
- does it a third time
- does it a fourth time
- has a conclusion post about jan wolf (564)
- has a followup about it with visor who agreed
- doesnt want to kill visor, thinks jan is actively wolfy
- votes waza?
- votes jan ("kill the wolfy player who is probably a wolf")
- votes waza
- doesnt wanna go maple
maple
- votes ender as an unabashed omgus
- cases cape as a w
jan interactions
- shades ender for their posts towards knights and their vote on maple but then says twtbaw
- supports lissa's pushing of cape (i read this as not aligned fwiw)
- votes lissa d2, has maple lissa as the two wolf reads
- says enders intro d1 is too convoluted to come from a wolf. the way he agreed with maple just to turn around within two heartbeats
lemme put down some thoughts before eod, probably gonna save the rest of my posts for that
1. Raskolnikov
3. Sunbae
4. ladd
5. EnderWiggin
12. Maple
13. Lissa
Lissa: lissa is a funny one, if you look at d1 in isolation you could convince me she is a wolf - i came out pushing her a bit late d1 and early d2 in part because i don't think she really kicked on to anything - she felt like a sidelines/commentary character at that point. going into d2 i was expecting some heat there and she played in a way that is close to my heart - for the last while i have been very busy and it has been hard for me to play ww, sometimes i play a game and i just cant get a handle on it because i am not able to get invested or really absorb what people are posting. but occasionally i try to just focus in on one read that i am confident in v or w and push that because that is the only lifeline i have found that i can cling onto. sometimes i will do these things in mashes too when the game is too fast for my advanced years lol. when i saw her push on jan, i felt that kind of emotion, even if it isn't necessarily what lissa was doing, but because i have been there so many times over the last couple years that i saw myself there in what she was doing and it made me step back a bit and reconsider my push.
you could absolutely make the argument she bussed - the typical lines like one strong read, no real wavering, etc. i think (as i mentioned earlier) that holistically theres an argument for it and lissa is definitely canny enough to pull off the bus, but on an emotional level for me despite her d1, it is hard for me to get over seeing that line of play and coming away not village reading her. i think her play today has also similarly had an emotive level to it that she FEELS she is clear, particularly noting her bite back to rask earlier today. if shes a wolf shes fuckin me over like that thing game, which is unfortunate lol, but shes played well.
Maple: I have answered this one multiple times and I've reread manti a few times now trying to see something different but I just am not seeing it. I see someone who (probably?) doesn't have the time to play but it is still checking in to make posts out of a sense of obligation. I don't think that is necessarily wolfy in and of itself, but i think the fact that manti has not had.... any real reads? any real stances? i think most of their responses are some variation of omgus (either real or jokingly). I know manti can have a wide range and they can certainly play like this as both alignments but overall I just can't find the sheriff manti in there, or a spark of inspiration or anything that says even though i don't have time for the game, i still 'felt this thing'. it looks like a wolf on a team that doesn't exactly have time for the game, and their partners probably don't either.
Ender: i've talked earlier about the lines regarding w/v re shooting jan and i am doing my best generally to ignore it at this point because it is a lot of WIFOM. i think his entry d1 was poor and was (to use lazy terminology) a kind of wolfy catchup. i don't mind him being focused on me d2, i get it, if someone is pushing you like that and they're wrong (or at least you have to affect that they are wrong) it makes sense, especially with some of his lines using the kind of emotive language that felt like actual frustration in some parts towards me. he has been hard to disentangle from ladd because of how ladd handled him but i think i agree with the points sunbae made yesterday and that it is a sloppy play if w/w, but if nobody has the time, sloppy plays are sometimes all that results. regardless, i think he posted well at sod (and then not at all apparently iirc?) and answered my questions in a quick enough fashion that i have some pause here. theres a lot of thoughts about potential lines re wolf/villa. i can see the potential gambit (there's a line where wolves are something like (ladd/maple) and ender where nobody has any time and they are just doing a gambit to win). in isolation i still don't like his d1 posts, his posts about maple are okay i guess. i need to ruminate more on his d2 i think
ladd: talked about a fair bit, really hated his ender progression, felt unnatural to me (especially going from such strong wording choices), and then i think today (which is probably just my confirmation bias) i think the way he has framed his arguments and searched for things that have.... like a kernel of truth surrounded by a nugget of shit to throw to get potential heat off him. i thought d1 he actually posted p well for the most part up until the ender posts - when he said he wolf read ender i was like hot damn, maybe there is something here, and then i wake up to the flip and that was just bizarre. i don't really care about his posts re waza and i don't really know what they are expected to achieve - it kind of just feels like grasping at something to hopefully hit a convincing chord. theres a wild world where its ender/ladd and maple is just straight up punting the game but that sounds awful lol. i think that individually some of the posts he has made today has actually been ok, it is hard to weigh against a collective though.
Sunbae: sunbae is in that category of players i will usually refrain from making a strong read early on unless i actually have a strong read just because i think it clutters the thread sometimes and what use is there to saying someone is ok sometimes lol. i know ladd pointed out the jan read stuff, but if you go back and read that its not a hard defence its just him putting out there that he has a personal read on jan. when i asked him about that he couldn't even explain it. which on one hand is convenient if wolfing together lol, but on the other it doesn't provide a huge level of protection. its also a strong read to commit to so early and if you are going to go that route, i would have expected more force in the midday of d2 to push the kill into a different direction, you could've got me killed, lissa killed, maybe rask, there were other options out there to make that push on if you wanted to commit to that line, but also you can turn around at that point as well. its hard to point to a specific flaw in sunbaes posting and say that is the gotcha or thats where he slipped. i've poked and prodded around a bit but at the end of the day i just haven't found anything that tells me that sunbae is wolfing in a way i feel confident in expressing. to me i can see the progression of his thoughts throughout the game, including how he came to the rask/me reads and the ender/ladd read i thought was quite good and turned around my thinking there. similar to lissa i feel like i could make reasons for him to be a wolf, but i just don't feel like he is.
rask: man this one is tough for me. back in the day i could read rask really well, but i think we have both changed a fair bit over the last couple years and even speccing some games of rask his playstyle as both alignments has evolved a fair bit. i think his d1 is just not good - i have said this multiple times and i think the way he approached me was really wolfy. he has been weirdly super transparent since then about his thought process and indeed stepping back and trying to reassess me and turning around his read there, which i mean its all you can ask for right? if hes a villager he corrected his mistake and got to the right read with a decent progress of listening to others takes and adjusting accordingly. i feel like today i felt a struggle from him, where he was almost like a sinking sailor grasping for that life ring things, trying to find the winning line to get out of here before things get worse. that kind of feeling makes me think that everythign else aside, he might just be a villager who has just had every wrong read p much. if rask is a wolf and gets out of my grip like he did in that fucking giraffe board game imma be sad though, and i really dont want to lose to rask wolf because he will send me reminders every three months lmao. when i compare his posting to ladd and maple today he feels erratic, he feels like he doesn't have answers and i hope to god that is correct lol.
it is possible i am townreading a bus, or process over results (which isnt necessarily good for good players lol) or what ahve you, but right now i am not able to move past where i am, i have read and reread multiple times
c'est la vie, thats where i am.
Conclusions based on rereading:
1. Ladd is quite villagery. Becoming a double voter and immediately voting Jan, reasonable looking back and forths about players like visor and ender where see movement happening in his opinions based on posts that are happening, has good reasons to villa read villagers being pushed a bit such as defending cape because he thinks waza is a villager and waza thinks cape is a villager. Has a good shift on Jan from v (sponging me) to disagreeing and calling him in commentary mode after another spurt of Jan posting. Has every ability to just keep that V read and blame me for it but is calling out Jan instead. Votes Jan again. In order for Ladd to be a wolf he has to just be playing rather pro villa. Defending villagers and pushing wolves while doing so with fluid reads on people.
2. I have concerns about Ender who called out Jan and Maple as w/w but then once the eod 2 happens where Jan and Maple are wagons ends up voting Lissa (who has just cased Jan extensively). However, I do feel like their posts on Maple are pretty spot on ("hardcore aggro wolfing") and I think their sequence with Visor about calling him out for being wolfy for a similar aggression to him as a recent wolfgame and then backing off when he went and found it and noticed it was different is villagery. I just struggle to see where the lissa vote came in that context so hopefully he can help me out with that and I can be ok.
3. There were multiple instances of her defending Maple against pressure that stood out to me - notably the one that actively says she liked some of Maples posts rather than just the nai defense - and once she started going on Jan she didn't stop for a while only to last second swap to Waza because visor called Jan/Waza w/w??? So one of two things occurred here: 1.) Lissa started the bus on Jan once it was becoming apparent that his time was short (and knowing he was going to give the gun to someone and might be dead anyways) so did so thoroughly and convincing where she quoted multiple Jan posts and read them as the wolfiest interpretation possible. Like 5-6 posts about it in a shortish order and reiterating it with people. Then once another avenue opened up at eod she figured why not get waza if possible. or 2.) She correctly buried a wolf and then got cold feet at eod when he came in and claimed, then voted the other wagon that wasnt someone she was defending (maple).
I can see both of those possible. The thing is I can see her as a wolf with Maple (defending one while bussing the other), with Visor (working together to push it onto Waza), or with Ender (Jan returns and wolfchat concocts the "let ender shoot me" plan so they need Ender/Lissa to make sure Jan lives that night). I do find it odd that Jan is the only person she latches onto and really digs into their posts to reiterate their wolfiness yet backs off at eod.
This is a tough spot for me because she did spend time defending me that eod while cape/waza wanted to shade me. So I think I'm supposed to clear her for defending me/pushing jan but yeah idk. I'm keeping an open mind and I see a lot of lissa wolf avenues.
chewing on visor/rask stuff still so more to come there
god im either great at werewolf or dogshit at it but i wanna call ladd the villageriest person in the game after rereading ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 3 - Votes from post 680 through 821
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3MapleEnderWiggin (11 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867202&viewfull=1#post2053867202)), Raskolnikov (23 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867225&viewfull=1#post2053867225)), Visor (51 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867221&viewfull=1#post2053867221))
4Not VotingLissa (17), Maple (2), Sunbae (22), ladd (13)
My thoughts on rask is that like every dead villager had rask as an obvious villager and even alive people are all circling around it (ladd has it strong, ender does too, then visor/lissa are kinda like yeah i want to call rask a wolf but maybe hes just v).
If I look at his posting myself then I do have a few concerns. First, he's had multiple instances of throwing Jan into wolf reads (needs more votes, likes visors callout of jan for the vanta night kill when he was wolfreading jan, if visor villa we need to looks at maple/lissa/jan) but never actually applying any pressure there like he does to maple and lissa in similar spots. Second, I feel like the Vanta kill comes after rask getting to talk to him all night means there could be more than rasks post about their hood chats (that is, vanta gives reads and rask is like oh lets kill him). Third, I feel like the flip flopping on visor is odd in the strength of things. The reasons listed for pushing visor are strong things such as "isnt trying to find peoples alignment", "too proactive for villa visor" but the reasons for backing off are just like "well i hate to admit it but maybe visor is a villa" without anything specific and concrete as a reason to point to for that feeling. Which I find concerning because either you're exaggerating your strength of the wolf read to back off of it for lighter reasons or you're less willing to describe why you're villa reading him rather than wolf reading him. Which both make me go hmmm.
HOWEVER, there are good call outs of jan in there even if they aren't followed up on. There is clear back and forth on visor thoughts. He is trying to get his wolf reads killed and not laying back in commentary mode. He's sticking his neck out into things and bouncing around topics. His strong villa reads seem good.
Gun to head I'm calling him a villager based off of the dead villagers and the fact that I have to elaborately explain ways he could be a wolf while the ways he can be a villager are just "yeah hes playing well as a villager, makes sense"
god im either great at werewolf or dogshit at it but i wanna call ladd the villageriest person in the game after rereading ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
really? walk me through it
Ladd, you asked my thoughts on visor after eod2 so here we go. I am going to attempt to view Visors game from the view point of him being a wolf in the most uncharitable way possible and then see if I think it makes sense at the end.
1. Opens up pushing Cape and Vanta as w/w. There's a section in that case where he calls Vanta the most "miskilled person" as a reason for Cape pushing there early as partners which in hindsight is a weirdly incorrect logic given that would only apply if Vanta v so why is it w/w instead of Cape w/Vanta v?
2. Defends Maple for nai reasons to Ender.
3. Gets me to reiterate my Jan V read then move on with a "ah ok i dont see it but cool, anyways lets talk about ender and maple" because it's helpful to boost that but doesnt want the thread to actually talk about Jan any more than that.
4. Votes Lissa, votes Maple, starts pushing Rask after Rask comes into day 2 pushing him. Has the big mask off post that reads well but just boils down to "him coming at me makes him a wolf sorry bronana".
5. Shades ladd, shades ender, pushes maple, shades jan, votes maple
6. sees lissa start to bury Jan, agrees with her, becomes the 4th vote when it looks like his times up (or knows a claim is coming and he can move shortly)
7. Shades ender again for voting lissa instead of Jan
8. Calls waza/jan w/w then votes waza
Now throughout all of this time he's posting a lot in the thread and well, but it's mainly just to be viewed as villagery and have thread presence. His pushes are pretty thin overall and he backs off rask once rask backs off him. He calls waza/jan w/w and then votes waza which is a pretty solid wolf tactic for w/v (doesnt matter which goes over first you kill the second too).
In this scenario he can be wolves with lissa or maple. maybe even fun w/w theater with ender given neither of them every actually push each other he just keeps asking others abotu ender.
Honestly I don't thoroughly hate it but I think it's less likely than him villa? the Waza/Jan w/w post into a waza vote is the big drudge siren/alarm bell in my head on it but i do suppose the shift from "mask off/painted on his head" to "yeah maybe we're v/v" is also something i should squint at.
prior to reread i had lissa and visor as my top two villas but i really dont anymore. i kinda think thats ladd/rask??? which, ugh fuck me im either currently throwing or was previously throwing and neither is fun
i cant imagine not voting maple today tho after reread and hopefully that can rule out some of the extremely difficult worlds like ender + lissa or visor
really? walk me through it
Like Ladd has just been pro villa start to finish. defending cape, defending waza, not hiding behind my jan v read and starting to get there on him, voting jan as a double voter, votes jan again like idk its just all pretty villagery to me results wise
I think if I just take a deep breath it's like "games easy, just pew pew maple then ender when he doesnt die in the night or its 2 wolves and thats why the third is hard to find" but some very hard worlds exist and id really like to fade them
I guess my big hangup is how does Ender wind up with the ability to shoot Jan if Ender is a villager when Jan gets to choose the target and Ender has a started wolf read on Jan? You can just give it to another wolf and you're safe.
I guess my big hangup is how does Ender wind up with the ability to shoot Jan if Ender is a villager when Jan gets to choose the target and Ender has a started wolf read on Jan? You can just give it to another wolf and you're safe.
Not one answer I've come up with about on this topic makes sense to me. There's seemingly zero benefit to doing so. What? You give it to someone wolf reading you and then convince them to save you and then come in the next day and have them shield you? You're still dying the next day. And the downside is he shoots you.
And why wasn't it given to me in that case? I defended him! I'm snowable in that situation!
According to Knights' role, people aren't told they have a bomb so you can't even argue that Jan had a bomb and was expecting to blow up Ender who happened to have an antidote
I guess my big hangup is how does Ender wind up with the ability to shoot Jan if Ender is a villager when Jan gets to choose the target and Ender has a started wolf read on Jan? You can just give it to another wolf and you're safe.
the way i see it there are four major lines
a) you give it a wolf, you shoot to go deep
b) you give it to a wolf, you don't shoot, argue it either unpairs you, or hard defend or whatever
c) you give it to a villager, they don't shoot you, hooray
d) you give it to a villager, they shoot you, people think why would you ever give it to a villager, has to be a wolf going deep, they kill them
so the argument is either wolves thought they needed to send ender deep/ go for hail mary, or wolves figured that by giving to a villager even if they shoot you, theres a good chance that they get killed anyway
if you could talk more about lissa i'd appreciate it
i gotta think on ladd some, if you feel that strongly about it
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 02:07
Hi got busy running D&D yesterday and then fell asleep right after.
Will catch up now. (I see Sunbae in thread an hour ago an I have the sad feeling that I have once again missed the Sunbae window)
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 02:21
i will say that im confused mechanically on why a wolf would ever give the gun to a villager in that situation unless they had the poison bomb, but i dont think you can know you had a poison bomb? id imagine a wolf would just give it to a wolf and be quiet about it. so theres a small part of me concerned that its a maple-esque "have a wolf kill a wolf in the night to mechanically clear them" play that we've seen in these small games, but i will cross that bridge if i come to it. hopefully its just maple/ladd
I probably don't need to defend myself of this but like:
If I'm w/w and I want to get clear off Jan because I think they're gonna die then I just don't shoot and try to bus them hard today.
Shooting in the night is a KoolMechPlayz.tm but like, giving town an extra ml feels bad?
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 02:22
Like idk how I get more town points off bussing via gun rather than just voting during the day. And the night shot just gives town more room to find wolves.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 02:23
I am looking at d2 wagons and uh why isnt visor just a wolf
Mislunching waza there is a crime afaict
Lissa i have vague recollection being not paired with jan
Lissa is clear off spew imo.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 02:30
2. I have concerns about Ender who called out Jan and Maple as w/w but then once the eod 2 happens where Jan and Maple are wagons ends up voting Lissa (who has just cased Jan extensively). However, I do feel like their posts on Maple are pretty spot on ("hardcore aggro wolfing") and I think their sequence with Visor about calling him out for being wolfy for a similar aggression to him as a recent wolfgame and then backing off when he went and found it and noticed it was different is villagery. I just struggle to see where the lissa vote came in that context so hopefully he can help me out with that and I can be ok.
I'll be honest I barely remember EOD2 and had to go back to reread it to find out what you were talking about lol.
I remember the vote on Lissa was like it felt like Jan was being yeeted 100% at that point, and I felt like Lissa had posted some stuff I found sussish towards that EOD. Jan wasn't towny to me but I had a flash of "What if Jan is dealing with the thing I do where I'm mostly afk due to irl and get sussed due to recency bias" but also it was 90% "If I make the wagons more level we might see more interesting EOD movements."
(Also sometimes I just vote against my reads to make a more tense EOD, which definitely leveraged it.)
Tbh I did not properly understand Waza was in danger until the flip happened so that's 100% my bad because I think I would've probably saved em in the moment? I thought it was still Jan or Lissa at the end and was okay with either of them.
Though that's really kinda my word for it so feel free to discard.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 02:31
Huh. Unironically might have been Jan thought that my vote on Lissa eod meant I'd changed my tune.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 02:31
meow meow
im gonna post tmr afternoon
I still have not seen these promised posts lol.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 02:32
I kinda like Sunbae's ladd defense tho. Both for Ladd and for Sunbae.
If I drop my Rask defense because I don't know if I really have a good reason for it anymore it's kinda a neat little "Maple/Visor/Rask" solve.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 02:33
Actually I should probably reread Ladd myself rather than take the word for it.
Will do that a bit later once work is cleared up.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 02:34
I entertained a wolf!Sunbae world earlier today but ngl I'm back at town!Sunbae.
3. There were multiple instances of her defending Maple against pressure that stood out to me - notably the one that actively says she liked some of Maples posts rather than just the nai defense - and once she started going on Jan she didn't stop for a while only to last second swap to Waza because visor called Jan/Waza w/w??? So one of two things occurred here: 1.) Lissa started the bus on Jan once it was becoming apparent that his time was short (and knowing he was going to give the gun to someone and might be dead anyways) so did so thoroughly and convincing where she quoted multiple Jan posts and read them as the wolfiest interpretation possible. Like 5-6 posts about it in a shortish order and reiterating it with people. Then once another avenue opened up at eod she figured why not get waza if possible. or 2.) She correctly buried a wolf and then got cold feet at eod when he came in and claimed, then voted the other wagon that wasnt someone she was defending (maple).
not really here i'm in mop classic raid (raid tells :curtain: ) but wanted to clarify rq
1. my like of maples posts was p thin, basically only really brought it up as a tiebreaker over logic effectively
2. i didn't swap to waza because of the w/w read from visor nor as "cold feet", i found a chunk of his eod posting wolfy and thought it was mechanically suboptimal to go jan, i had doubts as it got closer about going waza as he kept posting but was kinda paralyzed and struggling to like be able to discuss it too b/c i was almost out of posts lol.
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 3 - Votes from post 680 through 843
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3MapleEnderWiggin (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867202&viewfull=1#post2053867202)), Raskolnikov (23 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867225&viewfull=1#post2053867225)), Visor (54 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867221&viewfull=1#post2053867221))
4Not VotingLissa (18), Maple (2), Sunbae (29), ladd (13)
Aight so I'm DEFINITELY dying, but we're on 7 and there's most likely 2 wolves left, so unless we hit today or people were REALLY convinced I was clear, me dying generally reasonable. Soooooo not much for me to do about that, since I'm guessing im gonna be alone till i go to bed, and i wont be there till the morning. Sad!
Anyway, my major issue here, frankly, is the phase change being at maybe the literal most inconvenient hour for me at all possible. It sort of just is what it is. Nyaaaaa
As far as the *game* goes.
I'm concerned wrt mechfuckery wrt the Jan vigi, tho. Yall are in LyLo starting tmr if I'm understanding the situation correctly, so it IS gonna be relevant tmr.
Don't think it's Ladd. Don't think it's sunbae. Cobalt death in that way feels quite weird? Cause like whyyyy? I mean, it makes me nervous about the mechs is all. Like, Jan *presumably* made the kill?
i mean that puts me where: looking at some combination of lissa/visor and then a chance of ender. I'd have outside odd on rask. Rask can be partner with lissa or visor i think just given how uhhhhhhhhhhhhh bad things have gone for the village. meow.
chat, we're cooked. gl in f5 lmao
Aight so I'm DEFINITELY dying, but we're on 7 and there's most likely 2 wolves left, so unless we hit today or people were REALLY convinced I was clear, me dying generally reasonable. Soooooo not much for me to do about that, since I'm guessing im gonna be alone till i go to bed, and i wont be there till the morning. Sad!
Anyway, my major issue here, frankly, is the phase change being at maybe the literal most inconvenient hour for me at all possible. It sort of just is what it is. Nyaaaaa
As far as the *game* goes.
I'm concerned wrt mechfuckery wrt the Jan vigi, tho. Yall are in LyLo starting tmr if I'm understanding the situation correctly, so it IS gonna be relevant tmr.
Don't think it's Ladd. Don't think it's sunbae. Cobalt death in that way feels quite weird? Cause like whyyyy? I mean, it makes me nervous about the mechs is all. Like, Jan *presumably* made the kill?
i mean that puts me where: looking at some combination of lissa/visor and then a chance of ender. I'd have outside odd on rask. Rask can be partner with lissa or visor i think just given how uhhhhhhhhhhhhh bad things have gone for the village. meow.
chat, we're cooked. gl in f5 lmao
It's def jank ngl. Eod are only a few people and flow funny as a result. Whole game flows funny lol. Activity periods are weird
Anyway im here, but i feel like so much of this game is like nobody being able to have a full conversation half the time bc of activity windows lmao
3 Maple EnderWiggin (21), Raskolnikov (23), Visor (54)
4 Not Voting Lissa (18), Maple (2), Sunbae (29), ladd (13)
sooooooooooooooooooo
7 alive, someone dying
5
need 3 clears outside myself, i got 2 peopel i doubt, i need +1
nya
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
if we accept the mech it isnt TOO hard, but like what are teh ODDS, ya know?
hi lissa
what're you thinking the team is?
I rambled a bunch about the jan hood mechs earlier, it's weird
giving it to a villager would be spicy as hell, like it's a free kp for the village (sorta, well depending on the n3 one but) and if you think jan has any real odds to be a wolf at all, you just send it lol
but i mean giving it to a wolf and having them do the kill is also spicy because if jan is a bomb then you kinda get fucked lmaooo
so if you want to "give it to a wolf" you actually want to give it to a nightkill and just fake claiming it unless jan flips bomb which
is
could potentially waste kp if jan bomb
but that's a lower downside obviously lol
i mean maybe you just give it to a villa for this reason and gamba on them not getting cleared because of some of these layers
So, you'd disagree with the decision then?
hi lissa
what're you thinking the team is?
uhhh.
visor and raskol seem extremely v.
sunbaes pretty villagery, there are a couple of things that sliiiightly weird me out
i need to finish rereading the game to comment on ladd prob
ender, mrg
was kinda weirded he voted me over jan, keep staring at the layers of the whole vig stuff
mmmmm
got a headache zz
i'm not like. particularly convinced you flip wolf but i DEFINITELY don't think i can ever reach a point here where id clear you hard enough for it to ever make sense for you not to die here, esp looking at the rest of the game
game should be good if i can find one more villa in theoryyyy
So, you'd disagree with the decision then?
wdym
honestly my brain has been sooo fucked this week im soooooo over it
alrighty, i am here
gonna re read the game real quick (and especially cathc up to d2)
i read sunbae latest posts and honestly i dont think i will be able to find him if he is a wolf lmao
visor otoh :curtain:
wdym
To give out the gun.
to explain more to visor what my read progressione on ender was (as i remember it at least, honestly i completely disconnected from the game those days trekking that i dont fully remember how i felt about some stuff, which is a weird feeling9
If Vanta is wolf Waza is probably right about Nee which irritates me but I can accept lol.
this like jumped to a conclusion (vanta wolf) and made conclusion from it too quickly. the fact that ender would be irritatde if waza is right based on the assumptions that vanta is a wolf and would spew knights villa just seemed weird to me
Vote: Maple
Vanta could be having a rough start so I'll give em room. I feel like it's easy to pick up on their town thought process eventually (Which then no one understands which is why they get miskilled) so I wanna commit to working that out properly instead of shrug yeeting em.
Also that set of posts from Maple feels bad.tm.
i dont think vanta start was particularly rough and if you thought so...why not give them space from the beginning?
EnderWiggin
To give out the gun.
o
uh
if im on a team with jan/not ender here yeah prob
its like... handing the village a free extra kill since we were on evens... and letting the village avoid going to mylo... i don't think that'd be worth "maybe make people worry about ender from that lens but also maybe make people village read them"? seems not fuckin worth lol
o
uh
if im on a team with jan/not ender here yeah prob
its like... handing the village a free extra kill since we were on evens... and letting the village avoid going to mylo... i don't think that'd be worth "maybe make people worry about ender from that lens but also maybe make people village read them"? seems not fuckin worth lol
i think as a wolf there my stance is always either holster or bury+have someone claim
give to a villa thats not being killed seems way higher loss than gain iyam
if we werent on day evens or the wolf was a less clear my stance obv is somewhat different
but in jans position and the gamestate there it seems...
Cape/Rask/Sunbae/Waza likely has 0 wolves. Vanta maybe there too but reserving judgement.
I am not going to snap read Ladd because I have no idea if this is opportunistic wolfy Ladd or if it's towny Ladd who wolfreads me randomly. (Last game alone is an example of Ladd calling me "Second wolfiest poster in this thread" while we were v/v)
Visor is visoring tho I'm a lil sketched at their incessant poking of people to read me. Lightest shade of red.
Jan feels wolfy. Maple feels wolfy. Lissa doesn't feel.
I don't know if I forgot someone but I think those are my reads atm.
if maple is a wolf, this is really good. no rule against bussing both of your teammates d1 but it kinda makes me want to rule out maple/ender anyway lol
there is this post made by Jan wrt ender that also slightly pings me as a wolf posting about a villager who did something weird but it's pretty thin:
hopw does ender react with "glad we agree on something"
just to turn around and scumread the same post and vote maple based on it.
and all that in reaction to a reaction to the treestump.
Calling out knights readslist is pointless because you know his flip already.
agreeing with that callout just to turn on it does not make it any better.
Not even wolfy because it feels too sloppy to be a wolfplay. Just wrong on every level.
o
uh
if im on a team with jan/not ender here yeah prob
its like... handing the village a free extra kill since we were on evens... and letting the village avoid going to mylo... i don't think that'd be worth "maybe make people worry about ender from that lens but also maybe make people village read them"? seems not fuckin worth lol
Mhm, it'd take a LOT of raw confidence to do.
(if i was actually a wolf bussing jan tho im pretty sure i just commit at eod and get SUPER clear for it LMAO) if enders a villager, jan making it thru eod honestly didnt get wolves a whole lot
My thoughts on rask is that like every dead villager had rask as an obvious villager and even alive people are all circling around it (ladd has it strong, ender does too, then visor/lissa are kinda like yeah i want to call rask a wolf but maybe hes just v).
If I look at his posting myself then I do have a few concerns. First, he's had multiple instances of throwing Jan into wolf reads (needs more votes, likes visors callout of jan for the vanta night kill when he was wolfreading jan, if visor villa we need to looks at maple/lissa/jan) but never actually applying any pressure there like he does to maple and lissa in similar spots. Second, I feel like the Vanta kill comes after rask getting to talk to him all night means there could be more than rasks post about their hood chats (that is, vanta gives reads and rask is like oh lets kill him). Third, I feel like the flip flopping on visor is odd in the strength of things. The reasons listed for pushing visor are strong things such as "isnt trying to find peoples alignment", "too proactive for villa visor" but the reasons for backing off are just like "well i hate to admit it but maybe visor is a villa" without anything specific and concrete as a reason to point to for that feeling. Which I find concerning because either you're exaggerating your strength of the wolf read to back off of it for lighter reasons or you're less willing to describe why you're villa reading him rather than wolf reading him. Which both make me go hmmm.
HOWEVER, there are good call outs of jan in there even if they aren't followed up on. There is clear back and forth on visor thoughts. He is trying to get his wolf reads killed and not laying back in commentary mode. He's sticking his neck out into things and bouncing around topics. His strong villa reads seem good.
Gun to head I'm calling him a villager based off of the dead villagers and the fact that I have to elaborately explain ways he could be a wolf while the ways he can be a villager are just "yeah hes playing well as a villager, makes sense"
"then visor/lissa are kinda like yeah i want to call rask a wolf but maybe hes just v"
i wouldn't really say this was the case ftr! i would not say i "wanted to call rask a wolf" at any point today, really. i think he is VERY villagery even when (especially when) he was prodding me at sod i thought that came from a villa >>>>rand, and the only hesitation i think i have had was basically some tinfoil nonsense about that list that didn't include ender slips aren't real etc etc
Mhm, it'd take a LOT of raw confidence to do.
jan like actually thinking he can talk out of the kill would be kinda wild imo given like the free-ness of the kill, mechanically
and ender WAS wolfreading him just like also me lmao
eh
yeah.
So it's a choice that doesn't make sense to me, is all.
eh
yeah.
So it's a choice that doesn't make sense to me, is all.
yeeeeeep
im more hmmmmming the more i talk/think about it
When did I ever ask others for a read on you?
If you're gonna come for me actually quote what I did properly like.
Also Maple just latching onto the Cape omgus once Lissa fields it feels like aggro wolfin'. Like they haven't mentioned Cape despite apparently having a mini-case locked and ready to go.
Instead literally 100% of Maple's posts have been "Ender wolf" with no other nuance and then latching onto a second target once Lissa sets the tee up. (If I'm right on this it's also 99% Lissa town because that wolfy-latch-on is not w/w.)
Small footprint wolftell always feels good.
i think around here is when i started to change my read on ender. I liked this read and i think it generally has a good accuracy
man d1 there just wasnt much happening lmao so hard to get read from there evne with the flips so far
i like rask push on visor, i feel like rask as a wolf has a lot of easier pushes to make there, there was no need to put themselves out there to push on visor. I also feel like they believe it and from some posts they made you can see they are thinking about the game in an holistic way and not just tunneling visor
which definitely has me kind of mrging cause like i do not think you and ender are w/w lmao
Ok Vanta gave me a party gift last night.
Which means I had a hood with them and ability to shot them. I didnt (cant say I didnt tease them though, u know the clown I am), i had a villa read there. They still died.
Something something frame something.
Vanta Black: there u go! Congrats on eating the N1! (Since u know I could kill u, u know its not me, I am not a wolf, and u still got it... bravo :bow: )
oh i forgot this as well
I dont think this comes from a wolf
Doubt i am ever lunching rask
giving village an extra kill in exchange for arguably just not really being THAT clear is weird too tho ngl
I'll be honest I barely remember EOD2 and had to go back to reread it to find out what you were talking about lol.
I remember the vote on Lissa was like it felt like Jan was being yeeted 100% at that point, and I felt like Lissa had posted some stuff I found sussish towards that EOD. Jan wasn't towny to me but I had a flash of "What if Jan is dealing with the thing I do where I'm mostly afk due to irl and get sussed due to recency bias" but also it was 90% "If I make the wagons more level we might see more interesting EOD movements."
(Also sometimes I just vote against my reads to make a more tense EOD, which definitely leveraged it.)
Tbh I did not properly understand Waza was in danger until the flip happened so that's 100% my bad because I think I would've probably saved em in the moment? I thought it was still Jan or Lissa at the end and was okay with either of them.
Though that's really kinda my word for it so feel free to discard.
hrm
i was def never going over by actual eod (well unless i swapped to maple and made that 2/2/2 tie i was considering whether i should lmao)
felt like that was kinda clear but idk
oh i forgot this as well
I dont think this comes from a wolf
Doubt i am ever lunching rask
Oh I forgot about this lol
manti also seems like a wolf which means i won't look like an idiot this game thankfully (hopefully)
iirc this is where i started to think visor/maple w/w. Visor only push so far was essentially a naked vote at eod on maple:
vote: manti
I will endeavour to check in before eod but no promises there
Ladd if you can please explain why you changed your mind on ender that would be great, his entry just seemed crap to me
so the wording of the post about not looking like an idiot if manti is a wolf seems weird and trying to grab credit for a maple wolf flip
It's the short version anyway - basically they aren't gonna do anything unless they are in danger, it's their slanking wolf type of game imo
Re Jan: have been disappointed with him today, d1 was fine, had the joie de vivre I am looking for from v Jan but today is more doiur
And not any counter culture reads (like against thread position) that he is worried about
Like if he was wolf reading Ladd or sunbae or rask but not feeling like he should push there or something
Idk what to make of enders posts towards me rn I will need to read them when I get home
the bolded is pretty much what ender wolfread maple for d1 (pretty hard9, did that not influence your ender read at all?
Read thread.
1 wolf in Ladd/Ender
1 wolf in Maple/Rask
1 wolf in Waza/Lissa/Jan
I have Visor/Cape as my villagers.
I currently lean the wolf team being Ladd/Rask/Waza but that's more just a shot in the dark. I feel pretty great about the wolf groupings though.
well i really dont like that wolf team lmao
the groupins seem fine tho
also lissa pretty clear just from pag 17. The way they push jan and the timing just does not feel like a buss at all (it comes right after waza says jan return is fine and no one really looking at jan much atm)
I confirm I am never touching lissa/rask this game
1. I do not think Rask and Visor are wolves together. Even with the early Rask vote on Visor which could be early w/w theater, the pressure has continued into the second day goes in both directions. Specifically I think visors post about Rask where he says he went “mask off” locks in it as not w/w. Note this is also the first post of visors that made me realize he was likely just a villager (probs the vilalgeriest post in the thread). Rask also has a post in #320 where he cases visor and uses visors case on Waza being bad (which wasn't Visors case, it was mine) that looks earnest in its attempt to kill Visor.
2. The way Raskol defends Maple in #221 (“maple was just lacking at the time”) in an effort to shade Enders vote on Maple was something I noted. Rask also had a post in #241 pairing up Lissa/Maple as “coordinated” and then again in #262 calling the wolf team Ender/Lissa/Maple and yet again in #299 asking Ladd “why logic instead Maple” to vote. The ways that Rask is shading Maple in some posts and defending in others strikes me as something unpaired because to me Rask would be consistent with either defending or shading, not oscillating between the two.
3. As for why I have a Raskol wolf read in general it's a combination of Rask misattributing the case of waza being bad to Visor in an effort to push Visor near eod, being told that wasn't Visor, and then rather than shifting to thinking I'm wolfy then (the author of the Waza case) Rask just changed it to the Cape case from Visor as the reason Visor was wolfy. Additionally, I thought the shift from “why logic instead of maple” to #337's post about thinking Logic's behaviour is more likely to come from a wolf than not. What changed between #299 to #337? On top of that, I am a sucker for listening to people who just flat out say “hey this person is my friend but they are obviously wolfing to me” the way Visor did about calling Rask going mask off.
wrt the bolded rask had said visor cape case was wolfy from super early one, they just wrote the wrong name thats why when being told it wasnt waza but cape it changed nothing
i also dont get why you think visor is semi clear off the push on a friend but rask is a wolf when they have been pushing visor hard for all of d1
visor pushed back on rask cause he was kinda forced to, rask pushed on visor when they could choose any player to push
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 3 - Votes from post 680 through 876
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3MapleEnderWiggin (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867202&viewfull=1#post2053867202)), Raskolnikov (23 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867225&viewfull=1#post2053867225)), Visor (54 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867221&viewfull=1#post2053867221))
4Not VotingLissa (32), Maple (11), Sunbae (29), ladd (22)
i liked lissa voting jan just because its a little more stick your neck out than i typically associate with her wolf game (which is probably woefully out of date meta lol)
but i also need to like actually SEE something lol. Lissa sil vous plais
i wish jan had stronger reads
or like a pet read or something that he kept going back to
maybe my meta is off base but i dont think this would be your reaction to lissa hard pushing somoene if u were a villager
you would vote jan with lissa or something, instead of sitting on a vote on manti:
vote: manti
cmon bronana
do something
rask i have read your posts - i will probably respond in the morning
i will sleep on your post as well sunbae - too tired to put into words rn
(am I the only person using 80ppp? do people think that's cursed lmao)
i just picked the highest one
anyway
uh
i'm gonna write some words about sunbae in like
a bit
i think
cape dying over like me or visor was a biiiit weird
there's a lot of weirdness but nya
nya
indeed
im trying to continue my reread of the game
im.... not very far along LMAO
i am on pg. 20
rask/lissa are so villagery, super easy clears imo
i am reading eod and i dont like visor push on waza (waza made a perfectly fine post about sunbae possibly being a wolf cause the rask/me/wza team is 3 villas)
he also votes jan only once with a naked vote when it's already 3/2 jan vs lissa to make it 4/2:
vote: jan
Entschuldigang
says pretty much nothing to push on jan and then switches to pushing waza
also no mention of manti who he was pretty confident was a wolf at all this eod
lissa has more posts than me wtf lol
vote: jan
now switches back jan and votes are 3/3 jan-lissa:
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 624
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3LissaEnderWiggin (13 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867077&viewfull=1#post2053867077)), Jan (6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866952&viewfull=1#post2053866952)), Raskolnikov (29 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866934&viewfull=1#post2053866934))
3JanCape90 (23 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867065&viewfull=1#post2053867065)), Visor (43 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867108&viewfull=1#post2053867108)), ladd (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866950&viewfull=1#post2053866950))
1Visorwaza (31 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867101&viewfull=1#post2053867101))
1RaskolnikovSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885))
1wazaLissa (49 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867097&viewfull=1#post2053867097))
1Not VotingMaple (20)
15 minutes
eder eod also sucks. vote on lissa for not explained reasons, no mention of jan who was his d1 wolfread and now is a wagon
ù
man seeing lissa/waza stuff go down at EoD is sad. you were both very villagery oh well
visor just seems like a wolf to me. sorry if wrong eheh
waza did get villagery af in response to me/in general after the posts i didnt like, i was so sad i didnt save him, wished i took the 1/3 rand
i shoulda just committed on jan and not cared about the mech stuff
alrighty i am caught up
rask/lissa i am never voting this game, you can hold me to this
sunbae - until d3 i dodnt see why he couldnt be a wolf but i think his posting today and the conclusion he has come to are both correct and villagery in processo so maybe i am a sucker but i think he is just a villager
ender - i dont see who he could be a wolf with. he is not with maple and not with visor (i think) so ya only viable is team is like sunbae/ender but that does not feel right to me + i dont think he would go for a gambit again against a similar PL+i think he has been reasonably villagery except eod2+jan piced the target during d2 and he had ender as top villa so ender as target makes sense to me
maple - prolly wolf by PoE. If not we are in trouble cause it's probably some super hard world like sunbae/visor
visor - i have explained why i think he is a wolf and why i think him/maple makes sense as a fit
i'll be back for EoD tho expect it will just end in a maple lunch
alrighty i am caught up
rask/lissa i am never voting this game, you can hold me to this
sunbae - until d3 i dodnt see why he couldnt be a wolf but i think his posting today and the conclusion he has come to are both correct and villagery in processo so maybe i am a sucker but i think he is just a villager
ender - i dont see who he could be a wolf with. he is not with maple and not with visor (i think) so ya only viable is team is like sunbae/ender but that does not feel right to me + i dont think he would go for a gambit again against a similar PL+i think he has been reasonably villagery except eod2+jan piced the target during d2 and he had ender as top villa so ender as target makes sense to me
maple - prolly wolf by PoE. If not we are in trouble cause it's probably some super hard world like sunbae/visor
visor - i have explained why i think he is a wolf and why i think him/maple makes sense as a fit
i'll be back for EoD tho expect it will just end in a maple lunch
ladd again? what was the gambit he did before you're referring to
alrighty i am caught up
rask/lissa i am never voting this game, you can hold me to this
sunbae - until d3 i dodnt see why he couldnt be a wolf but i think his posting today and the conclusion he has come to are both correct and villagery in processo so maybe i am a sucker but i think he is just a villager
ender - i dont see who he could be a wolf with. he is not with maple and not with visor (i think) so ya only viable is team is like sunbae/ender but that does not feel right to me + i dont think he would go for a gambit again against a similar PL+i think he has been reasonably villagery except eod2+jan piced the target during d2 and he had ender as top villa so ender as target makes sense to me
maple - prolly wolf by PoE. If not we are in trouble cause it's probably some super hard world like sunbae/visor
visor - i have explained why i think he is a wolf and why i think him/maple makes sense as a fit
i'll be back for EoD tho expect it will just end in a maple lunch
ladd again? what was the gambit he did before you're referring to
not to be cliche, but whatcha feeling in a v!me world, exactly ladd? ya know, in case you die or smth
He was wolf 1 shot bpv giver
Gave visor a vest and shot him the same night so he went to f3 off that claim
not to be cliche, but whatcha feeling in a v!me world, exactly ladd? ya know, in case you die or smth
Sunbae/ender or sunbae/visor i guess
Visor/ender as backup but prolly not
He was wolf 1 shot bpv giver
Gave visor a vest and shot him the same night so he went to f3 off that claim
ic
i can see the similarity yes
if it wasn't clear from my previous post re: sunbae i think i sorta kinda think he's a wolf but i have to like dig into stuff and write it out to see if i think it even really makes sense
i made some lunch so hoping maybe i can focus on this reread at last
Sunbae/ender or sunbae/visor i guess
Visor/ender as backup but prolly not
lmao we're cooked
Manti acknowledged the claim and then called em wolfy anyway.
Possibly was a joke I missed but felt kinda weird.
Do it.
That is taking my reaction out of context in a horrible way mate.
My reaction changes based on context.
Ngl this hit down only to end it with "idk if it's wolfy" is kinda sus.
???? why
Unironically this is so town!Sunbae it hurts.
Why u so sneaky.
I want to start a wagon on Cape so pretty good chances that's a town there.
Really Ladd.
When did I ever ask others for a read on you?
If you're gonna come for me actually quote what I did properly like.
Also Maple just latching onto the Cape omgus once Lissa fields it feels like aggro wolfin'. Like they haven't mentioned Cape despite apparently having a mini-case locked and ready to go.
Instead literally 100% of Maple's posts have been "Ender wolf" with no other nuance and then latching onto a second target once Lissa sets the tee up. (If I'm right on this it's also 99% Lissa town because that wolfy-latch-on is not w/w.)
Small footprint wolftell always feels good.
some ender jan stuff, hm
well
one of these isn't about jan i swear i had a second about jan but i can't find it on the entire page now i must be losing it
I don't think the "omugsing" on knights the treestump was real and just silly one being silly
Cape decided to "sheep you" and you voted maple before maple said they are omgussing you (and you did not post in between.
So either it was not a sheep or his reason cannot be the omgus.
You and anyone else can argue that it was a reaction test, and Maple's reaction was bad.
That is fair.
But nobody has said that.
Ladd got a 2nd vote because of Knight's friendship with him!
All is well as far as I understand.
I like Lissa pushing cape for the ender-sheep.
You can vote maple for reactions, but anything more than that is a reach.
Really? So Maple doing nothing but omgusing and latching onto things isn't wolfy in the slightest?
(this was @ jan)
Manti acknowledged the claim and then called em wolfy anyway.
Possibly was a joke I missed but felt kinda weird.
Do it.
That is taking my reaction out of context in a horrible way mate.
My reaction changes based on context.
Ngl this hit down only to end it with "idk if it's wolfy" is kinda sus.
???? why
Unironically this is so town!Sunbae it hurts.
Why u so sneaky.
I want to start a wagon on Cape so pretty good chances that's a town there.
Really Ladd.
When did I ever ask others for a read on you?
If you're gonna come for me actually quote what I did properly like.
Also Maple just latching onto the Cape omgus once Lissa fields it feels like aggro wolfin'. Like they haven't mentioned Cape despite apparently having a mini-case locked and ready to go.
Instead literally 100% of Maple's posts have been "Ender wolf" with no other nuance and then latching onto a second target once Lissa sets the tee up. (If I'm right on this it's also 99% Lissa town because that wolfy-latch-on is not w/w.)
Small footprint wolftell always feels good.
some ender jan stuff, hm
well
one of these isn't about jan i swear i had a second about jan but i can't find it on the entire page now i must be losing it
I don't think the "omugsing" on knights the treestump was real and just silly one being silly
Cape decided to "sheep you" and you voted maple before maple said they are omgussing you (and you did not post in between.
So either it was not a sheep or his reason cannot be the omgus.
You and anyone else can argue that it was a reaction test, and Maple's reaction was bad.
That is fair.
But nobody has said that.
Ladd got a 2nd vote because of Knight's friendship with him!
All is well as far as I understand.
I like Lissa pushing cape for the ender-sheep.
You can vote maple for reactions, but anything more than that is a reach.
Really? So Maple doing nothing but omgusing and latching onto things isn't wolfy in the slightest?
(this was @ jan)
i wrote and lost some stuff here but not a lot really
ender/jans a bit weird
maple/enders a lot weird
maple/ender/jans a LOT LOT weird
I disliked you sheeping ender. Might be a wording issue, but enders entry was clearly not reasonable and should not be sheeped for no good reason.
Everything else you did was fine.
I disliked Lissa's post on me right now more, and she has been pushing on you before.
(The post she picked in context was a direct reaction to Ender, where I explain something that happened.)
In addition to that, it is the 2nd (?) time Lissa picks up someone's slight doubt and makes it her own push.
mmh. I also don't reaaaally feel like this is w/w with ender lol
and it soooorta fits with maple.
ngl the site is just loading really poorly rn and it's definitely not encouraging me to continue this reread
frustratingly
takes ages to load quoting anything lol
i finally started playing horsegirl game
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 12:29
Heya friendos and Visor (I had two correct reads D1 pal, stop the toxic shade fgs! I am locked in my room crying because of you now)
finishing my ketchup (that is if p29 ever loads smh)
holy shit the thread loaded for the first time in like 2.5 hours
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 13:19
wrt the bolded rask had said visor cape case was wolfy from super early one, they just wrote the wrong name thats why when being told it wasnt waza but cape it changed nothing
i also dont get why you think visor is semi clear off the push on a friend but rask is a wolf when they have been pushing visor hard for all of d1
visor pushed back on rask cause he was kinda forced to, rask pushed on visor when they could choose any player to push
^^ that's part of why it took me a while to get to Sunbae villa tbh. D3 is more clean though, just villagery imo.
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 13:19
test
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 13:20
the org is back!
unfortunately that period of hours was most of when I had planned to do a bunch of things and I will not have a TON more in the extra 12h but ohhh welllllll let's see what we can do here
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 3 - Votes from post 680 through 899
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3MapleEnderWiggin (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867202&viewfull=1#post2053867202)), Raskolnikov (27 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867225&viewfull=1#post2053867225)), Visor (54 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867221&viewfull=1#post2053867221))
4Not VotingLissa (42), Maple (14), Sunbae (29), ladd (27)
Because the org was down, I've extended deadline by 1 hour. New deadline: https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20250819T0001&p0=152&msg=Day+3+extended+deadline&font=cursive&csz=1
unfortunately that period of hours was most of when I had planned to do a bunch of things and I will not have a TON more in the extra 12h but ohhh welllllll let's see what we can do here
EoD is just 1 hour late
anyway
vote:visor
:curtain
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 13:27
unfortunately that period of hours was most of when I had planned to do a bunch of things and I will not have a TON more in the extra 12h but ohhh welllllll let's see what we can do here
what do you think of Visor after ladd's posts?
Kind of have Ladd as a villager rn so I am revisiting some avenues. I still think it's prolly best to go Maple first but u thinking rn.
Also you have one hour and half I believe. gl
maybe my meta is off base but i dont think this would be your reaction to lissa hard pushing somoene if u were a villager
you would vote jan with lissa or something, instead of sitting on a vote on manti:
man reading your posts on this page is something
you are deliberately taking the least charitable interpretations of everything i am saying lol
for one: i already wolfread manti - and voting there is not just 'sitting there', but from memory, he didn't even have any votes at that point in the day - going into eod it seemed prudent to me to at least swing the spotlight around there
second, I DO vote jan when i get back for eod - it feels like the way you are framing my posts if i did one you'd have an issue and if i did the other you'd have an issue lol.
If i was going to vote jan and bus him, i'd just have bussed him. like i do in every wolf game when i bus, you either commit or you defend, if you are gonna bus you gotta get the credit, and letting lissa and others take the credit if i am willing to bus jan is both stupid and not how I wolf, which i know you know, because i won a wolf game on here a while back my bussing the fuck out of my partners
i hate when people use inaccurate meta for bad reads, so reading these things is tilting, but if you're a wolf thats your line and whatever
the fact that your posting today has been implicit defences of manti by pushing me has not gone unnoticed fwiw - every time i bring him up to you you say you are not defending them, but you keep pushing me and never talk about them
it just feels to me that your attention has not been to find my alignment, its to find dirt to push me to get me into contention for death
i've never seen you play like this before as a villager, but being the target of this just makes it stand out all the more
sunbae - until d3 i dodnt see why he couldnt be a wolf but i think his posting today and the conclusion he has come to are both correct and villagery in processo so maybe i am a sucker but i think he is just a village
so why is it a problem that i had this read earlier than you lol????
wild
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 13:31
what do you think of Visor after ladd's posts?
Kind of have Ladd as a villager rn so I am revisiting some avenues. I still think it's prolly best to go Maple first but I am thinking rn.
Also you have one hour and half I believe. gl
I made a joke about it in #894 put I do think it's a little weird from Visor to keep posting my reads have been sucky this game. Maybe there is something into it. maybe not. (it's not about the judgement in itself, just the effort of posting it several times, to me, to others etc)
I made a joke about it in #894 put I do think it's a little weird from Visor to keep posting my reads have been sucky this game. Maybe there is something into it. maybe not. (it's not about the judgement in itself, just the effort of posting it several times, to me, to others etc)
i don't think i have posted it that many times, but it is (unfortunately) a core part of my read lol
you being wrong on me, coming in today saying you v read jan and w read cape, these are just things that stand out to me
(i really need to save my posts lol)
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 13:36
i don't think i have posted it that many times, but it is (unfortunately) a core part of my read lol
you being wrong on me, coming in today saying you v read jan and w read cape, these are just things that stand out to me
(i really need to save my posts lol)
allright. (shrug about Cape, I was right about him when it mattered, ie I didn't push nor vote there :curtain: )
fwiw I do think not killing Maple here would be borderline throwing here :sparkleshrug:
EoD is just 1 hour late
anyway
vote:visor
:curtain
yeah i see now
doesn't rly make much difference in my case ngl
the time i was gonna do things in is almost done either way lmao
well anyway
man i forgot how short d1 was
also can't believe i let waza die ever in this game
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 3 - Votes from post 680 through 908
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3MapleEnderWiggin (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867202&viewfull=1#post2053867202)), Raskolnikov (30 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867225&viewfull=1#post2053867225)), Visor (57 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867221&viewfull=1#post2053867221))
1Visorladd (28 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867397&viewfull=1#post2053867397))
3Not VotingLissa (43), Maple (14), Sunbae (29)
Deadline timer (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20250819T0001&p0=152&msg=Day+3+extended+deadline&font=cursive&csz=1)
If i was going to vote jan and bus him, i'd just have bussed him. like i do in every wolf game when i bus, you either commit or you defend, if you are gonna bus you gotta get the credit, and letting lissa and others take the credit if i am willing to bus jan is both stupid and not how I wolf, which i know you know, because i won a wolf game on here a while back my bussing the fuck out of my partners
i mean maybe you didnt want to buss jan? i think your 2 naked votes are in perfect distancing range. Then jan claims and i dont really feel like you evaluate if his claim is wolfy or not, you just make this post:
If we don't kill Jan and I don't really want to kill lissa
I will accept maple ender or waza
assuming y'all are not killing jan but without giving a critical view of jan's claim
idk man, when i re read the thread i just felt everytime it was about jan your heart was not into it (kinda like haroldhidethepain.jpg)
it also stood out cause you were pushing vanta/cape/rask/waza just fine but when it came to jan it didnt really feel like you wanted it to me shrug.jpg
(and tbh same kinda applies to maple as in you never pushed hard for their death while saying you were confident they were a wolf)
i hate when people use inaccurate meta for bad reads, so reading these things is tilting, but if you're a wolf thats your line and whatever
i mean i can explain why i think you are a wolf pretty easily never referencing meta, thats really just a small part of my argument (and given your reaction i believe you believe my meta to be incorrect regardless of your alignment so okay):
- your vanta/cape w/w read was wolfy
- your treatment of jan was wolfy and your eod push on waza was wolfy for reasons i explained above and in my catch up
- your focus on linking me and maple is wolfy cause you should know maple is alway getting lunched this game. It genuinely does not matter and no one would defend them as w/w here (in fact i am not defending them, you are just trying to link me to them)
the fact that your posting today has been implicit defences of manti by pushing me has not gone unnoticed fwiw - every time i bring him up to you you say you are not defending them, but you keep pushing me and never talk about them
brah they have been sitting at 3 votes out of 7 players since SoD and everyone knows they will be lunched tody 99,999% of the times. why would i talk about them more than find the other wolf
so why is it a problem that i had this read earlier than you lol????
wild
well cause imo sunbae was not particularly villagery until his most recent spurt of posts?
your read was based on his body of work until d2. my read is based on his posts today
but ymmv
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 13:53
to explain more to visor what my read progressione on ender was (as i remember it at least, honestly i completely disconnected from the game those days trekking that i dont fully remember how i felt about some stuff, which is a weird feeling9
this like jumped to a conclusion (vanta wolf) and made conclusion from it too quickly. the fact that ender would be irritatde if waza is right based on the assumptions that vanta is a wolf and would spew knights villa just seemed weird to me
i dont think vanta start was particularly rough and if you thought so...why not give them space from the beginning?
EnderWiggin
Vanta felt very wolfy off rip to me. But then it was kind of a "shrug vanta is wolfy" echoed in thread which reminded me of why they get killed a lot for no reason so I intentionally decided to step off and focus elsewhere.
wheeeeee how the fuck do i talk about my sunbae concerns
honestly i am kind of worried about a sunbae ladd world (i know i said i thought they were kinda unpaired i can't remember why rn)
hopefully maple is just a wolf and i look a wee bit silly
she could easily be im just not like..... convinced
i dont really think sunbae ladd is the world i think lol
I liked cape, ender and sunbae the most when catching up today.
I think this was a good post by waza while everything else he did was kind of whatever.
Vote:Lissa
is this post about five villas
do i care about this post
Ladd is in the weird position where I think he could be a wolf, but there is no point in pushing him today, when he is mostly gone for this phase.
The n1 kill makes me think Ladd will be alive for a while, and we can talk about him when he is back.
I agree with waza that sunbae might be someone to look at if you are a villager (or rather if rask/you is v/v).
I don't have a strong read on you, but I rarely read you these days. You either find a wolf and die at night or don't find a wolf and die during the day.
I don't think this game has a lot of "counter culture" simply because most people could still be wolves and reads are fairly soft.
this was such a weird post about ladd but i dont reaalllly think i care too much
Read thread.
1 wolf in Ladd/Ender
1 wolf in Maple/Rask
1 wolf in Waza/Lissa/Jan
I have Visor/Cape as my villagers.
I currently lean the wolf team being Ladd/Rask/Waza but that's more just a shot in the dark. I feel pretty great about the wolf groupings though.
hmm
if sunbae is a villa this (the groupings not the specific team) was probably right lol
2. The way Raskol defends Maple in #221 (“maple was just lacking at the time”) in an effort to shade Enders vote on Maple was something I noted. Rask also had a post in #241 pairing up Lissa/Maple as “coordinated” and then again in #262 calling the wolf team Ender/Lissa/Maple and yet again in #299 asking Ladd “why logic instead Maple” to vote. The ways that Rask is shading Maple in some posts and defending in others strikes me as something unpaired because to me Rask would be consistent with either defending or shading, not oscillating between the two.
calling that post from rask originally a defense of maple (i mean it technically is but it's sort of a strong word for it) is a bit weird the post was basically saying /why/ was odd but that there couldve been a more reasonably based vote for her lacking
idk i just have an off feeling about like some of the things sunbae has chosen to talk about and how he's described some things and i can't really figure out how to explain it
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 14:02
Ngl I was gonna do a proper reread tonight but the site shitting itself when I had time to do that has kinda killed my WIM to do it lol.
Ngl I was gonna do a proper reread tonight but the site shitting itself when I had time to do that has kinda killed my WIM to do it lol.
yeah it was pretty rough timing, i dont really have the time or energy to fully do it now before eod
EnderWiggin
08-18-2025, 14:04
To echo Lissa I do feel like Sunbae hasn't tried to vibe in the way they normally do. There's been a lot of conclusiony statements instead of actual interacting working on solves if that makes sense? That's probably a bad read but nyeh.
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 14:06
If i was going to vote jan and bus him, i'd just have bussed him. like i do in every wolf game when i bus, you either commit or you defend, if you are gonna bus you gotta get the credit, and letting lissa and others take the credit if i am willing to bus jan is both stupid and not how I wolf, which i know you know, because i won a wolf game on here a while back my bussing the fuck out of my partners
i hate when people use inaccurate meta for bad reads, so reading these things is tilting, but if you're a wolf thats your line and whatever
fwiw I do remember your treatment of pzelda in the first MD game :curtain:
Your treatment of jan start of day 2 feels a bit the same way (you pinged him implying the NK was pointing at him) though I guess the context is somewhat different (it was clear pzelda was dying D1 in that MD game).
reading the last page i do think hell world sunbae/visor is unlikely. unless they are doing some elaborate good cop vs bad cop ploy i don't feel those pages with me/visor/sunbae in it would happen the same way if they were w/w?
i am pretty locked in on visor/maple, it just makes ~everything fit for me (just a bit spooked by jan v list lissa posted and jan voting maple/visor in quick succession on eod2 but i think it's reasonable he was in anti spew given he had already claimed)
if i am wrong sorry, c'est la vie
second most likely team is probably sunbae/maple, then sunbae/visor and then sunbae/ender
To echo Lissa I do feel like Sunbae hasn't tried to vibe in the way they normally do. There's been a lot of conclusiony statements instead of actual interacting working on solves if that makes sense? That's probably a bad read but nyeh.
hmm yeah there's some of that too, but i will say that interacting in this game actually has been pretty hard at least for me so i don't know if that's necessarily as meaningful as it would generally be, the presence/time around spread has been pretty wide and there feels like a lot of ships passing in the night
but his like areas of focus just feel, idk.
he just feels off and i hate to make a read like this that i can't elaborate on because i know it is a royal pain in the ass to be wolfread for something like that and to try to respond to it/engage with it lol
idk maybe a little overly formulaic? there's just a desync to it all, that some of could come from the flow of this game, but it's like a lot of us are singing a song and he's singing well but he is singing it like 5 seconds delayed and a bit off key
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 14:36
Been thinking at the mechs a bit, 3 poison bombs left.
Cape died with the fourth and noone is poisoned. So one wolf gotan antidote from Waza right? let me reread that Waza role
surprisingly tired for 6:30 lol i wonder if i could sleep
rereading eod2, i can understand ladds concerns re visor ig
god jans claim was so wolfy why didnt i just kill it
internal screaming
im so sorry waza lol
jan voting maple when me him waza were tied 2 and maple had a vote on is kinda fascinating
maybe he really thought he could live the night lol
idrc to read into it re maple thats just a level
it prolly says some stuff about wolf #3 in the maple w world. maybe. meh.
I dont think it matters - all we know is that a wolf has an antitode but it could come from waza role or from knights role and waza targets are kinda random so ya
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 14:41
waza was:
Town Choice Paralyzed Antidote Giver
You are Town. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.
You start the game with the item: Kylo Ren Plushy. (It does nothing.)
During pregame, provide the host with a list of 5 players and select 1 of those players to be your preferred choice. You will give an Antidote to a player on the list chosen at random by the game host. If your preferred choice is not selected with the first rand, the target will be randed again.
On Nights 1 and 2, provide the host with a list of 3 players. You will give an Antidote to a random player on the list. On Night 1, you can choose to give up your action that Night but gain the ability to choose a single target on Night 2.
Your targets will not be notified of having received an Antidote. You will not be told who you targeted. If you do not submit any targets you will give an Antidote to a random player, or if a list is incomplete players will be added to it at random until it is complete.
At the time of their death, waza had the following item:
theknightsofneeee leaves the game. (They may still achieve their win condition.)
It's Night 2. Send in actions at least 1 hour before deadline!
hmm a bit hard to figure out who waza chose pregame and what he did n1.
Still a nice feeling the wolves are at risk tonight :rideau:
Been thinking at the mechs a bit, 3 poison bombs left.
Cape died with the fourth and noone is poisoned. So one wolf gotan antidote from Waza right? let me reread that Waza role
jan prolly carried. seems like what you always do there unless you thought there was a block of some sort also itg
and i mean i guess that probably explains in some part why jan took the gamba if ender is a villa, odds of hitting a bomb were actually pretty damn high anyway
Oh ya jan carrying is also possible
I mean wolves gotta also have some way to deal with the bombs (prolly like a role cop equivalent?)
Oh ya jan carrying is also possible
I mean wolves gotta also have some way to deal with the bombs (prolly like a role cop equivalent?)
also likely otherwise its sorta a ridiculous minefield
lemme put down some thoughts before eod, probably gonna save the rest of my posts for that
1. Raskolnikov
3. Sunbae
4. ladd
5. EnderWiggin
12. Maple
13. Lissa
Lissa: lissa is a funny one, if you look at d1 in isolation you could convince me she is a wolf - i came out pushing her a bit late d1 and early d2 in part because i don't think she really kicked on to anything - she felt like a sidelines/commentary character at that point. going into d2 i was expecting some heat there and she played in a way that is close to my heart - for the last while i have been very busy and it has been hard for me to play ww, sometimes i play a game and i just cant get a handle on it because i am not able to get invested or really absorb what people are posting. but occasionally i try to just focus in on one read that i am confident in v or w and push that because that is the only lifeline i have found that i can cling onto. sometimes i will do these things in mashes too when the game is too fast for my advanced years lol. when i saw her push on jan, i felt that kind of emotion, even if it isn't necessarily what lissa was doing, but because i have been there so many times over the last couple years that i saw myself there in what she was doing and it made me step back a bit and reconsider my push.
you could absolutely make the argument she bussed - the typical lines like one strong read, no real wavering, etc. i think (as i mentioned earlier) that holistically theres an argument for it and lissa is definitely canny enough to pull off the bus, but on an emotional level for me despite her d1, it is hard for me to get over seeing that line of play and coming away not village reading her. i think her play today has also similarly had an emotive level to it that she FEELS she is clear, particularly noting her bite back to rask earlier today. if shes a wolf shes fuckin me over like that thing game, which is unfortunate lol, but shes played well.
Maple: I have answered this one multiple times and I've reread manti a few times now trying to see something different but I just am not seeing it. I see someone who (probably?) doesn't have the time to play but it is still checking in to make posts out of a sense of obligation. I don't think that is necessarily wolfy in and of itself, but i think the fact that manti has not had.... any real reads? any real stances? i think most of their responses are some variation of omgus (either real or jokingly). I know manti can have a wide range and they can certainly play like this as both alignments but overall I just can't find the sheriff manti in there, or a spark of inspiration or anything that says even though i don't have time for the game, i still 'felt this thing'. it looks like a wolf on a team that doesn't exactly have time for the game, and their partners probably don't either.
Ender: i've talked earlier about the lines regarding w/v re shooting jan and i am doing my best generally to ignore it at this point because it is a lot of WIFOM. i think his entry d1 was poor and was (to use lazy terminology) a kind of wolfy catchup. i don't mind him being focused on me d2, i get it, if someone is pushing you like that and they're wrong (or at least you have to affect that they are wrong) it makes sense, especially with some of his lines using the kind of emotive language that felt like actual frustration in some parts towards me. he has been hard to disentangle from ladd because of how ladd handled him but i think i agree with the points sunbae made yesterday and that it is a sloppy play if w/w, but if nobody has the time, sloppy plays are sometimes all that results. regardless, i think he posted well at sod (and then not at all apparently iirc?) and answered my questions in a quick enough fashion that i have some pause here. theres a lot of thoughts about potential lines re wolf/villa. i can see the potential gambit (there's a line where wolves are something like (ladd/maple) and ender where nobody has any time and they are just doing a gambit to win). in isolation i still don't like his d1 posts, his posts about maple are okay i guess. i need to ruminate more on his d2 i think
ladd: talked about a fair bit, really hated his ender progression, felt unnatural to me (especially going from such strong wording choices), and then i think today (which is probably just my confirmation bias) i think the way he has framed his arguments and searched for things that have.... like a kernel of truth surrounded by a nugget of shit to throw to get potential heat off him. i thought d1 he actually posted p well for the most part up until the ender posts - when he said he wolf read ender i was like hot damn, maybe there is something here, and then i wake up to the flip and that was just bizarre. i don't really care about his posts re waza and i don't really know what they are expected to achieve - it kind of just feels like grasping at something to hopefully hit a convincing chord. theres a wild world where its ender/ladd and maple is just straight up punting the game but that sounds awful lol. i think that individually some of the posts he has made today has actually been ok, it is hard to weigh against a collective though.
Sunbae: sunbae is in that category of players i will usually refrain from making a strong read early on unless i actually have a strong read just because i think it clutters the thread sometimes and what use is there to saying someone is ok sometimes lol. i know ladd pointed out the jan read stuff, but if you go back and read that its not a hard defence its just him putting out there that he has a personal read on jan. when i asked him about that he couldn't even explain it. which on one hand is convenient if wolfing together lol, but on the other it doesn't provide a huge level of protection. its also a strong read to commit to so early and if you are going to go that route, i would have expected more force in the midday of d2 to push the kill into a different direction, you could've got me killed, lissa killed, maybe rask, there were other options out there to make that push on if you wanted to commit to that line, but also you can turn around at that point as well. its hard to point to a specific flaw in sunbaes posting and say that is the gotcha or thats where he slipped. i've poked and prodded around a bit but at the end of the day i just haven't found anything that tells me that sunbae is wolfing in a way i feel confident in expressing. to me i can see the progression of his thoughts throughout the game, including how he came to the rask/me reads and the ender/ladd read i thought was quite good and turned around my thinking there. similar to lissa i feel like i could make reasons for him to be a wolf, but i just don't feel like he is.
rask: man this one is tough for me. back in the day i could read rask really well, but i think we have both changed a fair bit over the last couple years and even speccing some games of rask his playstyle as both alignments has evolved a fair bit. i think his d1 is just not good - i have said this multiple times and i think the way he approached me was really wolfy. he has been weirdly super transparent since then about his thought process and indeed stepping back and trying to reassess me and turning around his read there, which i mean its all you can ask for right? if hes a villager he corrected his mistake and got to the right read with a decent progress of listening to others takes and adjusting accordingly. i feel like today i felt a struggle from him, where he was almost like a sinking sailor grasping for that life ring things, trying to find the winning line to get out of here before things get worse. that kind of feeling makes me think that everythign else aside, he might just be a villager who has just had every wrong read p much. if rask is a wolf and gets out of my grip like he did in that fucking giraffe board game imma be sad though, and i really dont want to lose to rask wolf because he will send me reminders every three months lmao. when i compare his posting to ladd and maple today he feels erratic, he feels like he doesn't have answers and i hope to god that is correct lol.
it is possible i am townreading a bus, or process over results (which isnt necessarily good for good players lol) or what ahve you, but right now i am not able to move past where i am, i have read and reread multiple times
c'est la vie, thats where i am.
did anyone read this btw - idk what the point of posting my thoughts is if nobody is gonna say shit
re ladd: you literally townread sunbae d1 lol???
here i will quote your own posts for you:
I am mostly okay with all of jan,visor,cape,vanta,waza,sunbae,rask
Not that they have to be all villagers but yall seem fine enuf for now
Waza/cape/rask vvv
Jan/sunbae vv
Ender/lissa/vanta v
Logic/maple/visor w
Done i solved the game :curtain:
idk sunbae seemed fine to me. ofc he could be a wolf cause gamestate hasnt really been challenging enough for a lot of people to be out of any kind of range
anything in particular worries you about him?
(the last one isn't anything super noteworthy re sunbae v read, just figured i'd add it)
sure it wasn't like LOCK TOWN or anything, but you certainly didn't seem like you had compunctions about him d1
and then you didn't even read his posts of substance d2 self admittedly lol.
i feel like every time i point out a problem with your posting
re nk:
i agree that it is likely jan carried
lissa, ender can you please talk to me about both your issues with sunbae and your non issues with ladd?
what am i missing here?
obv i am not going to actually reply because i think i have like one post left but still
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 14:53
i've got a pretty long case detailing the last wolves in the game that is focused on the game from a deepwolf perspective. its more legacy than anything but i wanted to use this post to emphasize that, should I die, this post should not be ignored. please please please do not ignore this upcoming post.
i don't think it is worth using KP to go down this path yet, but should we end up in a worst case scenario of having gone 0/2 or maybe just 1/2 on the lunch/vigs tonight, then please please please give my case a hard look. if i'm wrong and we are just correct on Maple/Ladd or Maple/Visor logic tonight then i'll look pretty silly but that's OK cause we won. if not, follow my lead.
alright, having said that:
https://i.imgur.com/khFutSM.png
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 3 - Votes from post 680 through 928
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3MapleEnderWiggin (24 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867202&viewfull=1#post2053867202)), Raskolnikov (33 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867225&viewfull=1#post2053867225)), Visor (58 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867221&viewfull=1#post2053867221))
1Visorladd (33 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867397&viewfull=1#post2053867397))
3Not VotingLissa (50), Maple (14), Sunbae (29)
Deadline timer (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20250819T0001&p0=152&msg=Day+3+extended+deadline&font=cursive&csz=1) (7 mins)
sure it wasn't like LOCK TOWN or anything, but you certainly didn't seem like you had compunctions about him d1
and then you didn't even read his posts of substance d2 self admittedly lol.
I mean d1 and d3 is very different - d1 was super hard getting reads and i was mostly shooting from the hip with so little going on and no flips
Whats fine on d1 doesnt carry the same weight on d3+d3 u have jan wolf flip, etc..
(No need to answer this)
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 14:54
I did Visor (3 hours of my life ruined)
i did read it
idt i responded to everything i meant to in general tbh
but i took stuff from it into account in how i thought about things
i have some concerns about ladd i'm just kinda trying to like
words are sorta hard unfortunately the entire window of time i planned to actually do stuff in this game and felt fairly clearheaded to basically got nuked (and the rest of the time i was itt for a few hours before then wasnt really thaaat much better, site wise) so i lost the thread of like a bunch of stuff i wanted to read again and say and interact with and do and bleh
particularly i took a lot of your ender thoughts into account developing my own thoughts
jfc there is 6 minutes left in day i sorta lost track of time
i get it re lack of confidence sunbae is wolfing forsure
i wanted to dig into both sunbae and ladd today much more than i did frustratingly
I am ngl i think i only read the pargraph about me lmao
there is a reasonnnn i said that line about like being afraid of a sunbae ladd hellworld tho lol
ladds read on you and play around you today sorta weirds me out in a few ways
Raskolnikov
08-18-2025, 14:59
I am ngl i think i only read the pargraph about me lmao
You did well, it was the best written lmao " a kernel of truth surrounded by shit to be thrown at (...)" amazing:curtain:
just frustrating i lost the whole main window i was gonna do shit today lol
whatcha gonna do ig
i think gth my villagers to win the game are raskol, visor, ender in that confidence order
mrg
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 3 - Votes from post 680 through 937
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3MapleEnderWiggin (24 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867202&viewfull=1#post2053867202)), Raskolnikov (36 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867225&viewfull=1#post2053867225)), Visor (58 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867221&viewfull=1#post2053867221))
1Visorladd (35 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867397&viewfull=1#post2053867397))
3Not VotingLissa (53), Maple (14), Sunbae (29)
Maple dies.
Maple was:
Town Vanilla
You are Town. You have no abilities. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.
At the time of their death, Maple had the following items:
Poisonous Bomb
You reflexively poison anyone who kills you, unless they have an Antidote.
Night 3 now, submit actions 1 hour before deadline.
Apologies, I was busy/semi-afk through EoD and Maple's flip was incomplete. Fixed now (above)
Also note that Day 4 will start at the usual time (ie night is 1 hour shorter)
Raskolnikov died. They were:
Town Vanilla
You are Town. You have no abilities. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.
At the time of their death, Raskolnikov had the following items:
Antidote
You cannot be poisoned.
Antidote
You cannot be poisoned.
Antidote
You cannot be poisoned.
Gun
On this Night only, you may kill the player who gave you this.
Day 4 now, glgl
Livelist
Visor
Sunbae
ladd
Lissa
EnderWiggin
It's F5 so votes are locked.
well
I gotta do some rereading again. was hoping to die over rask
anyway, ftr I had the n3 parting gift. I holstered because it was a possible autoloss if maple was v and I hit a wolf for... what seemed like not a ton of upside? unless I had a super super strong non-consensus v read to use it on and even then
how did rask have three fucking antidotes lmao
like he had to get exactly knights antidote, waza n0, waza n1 lol or some portion from somewhere else somehow
Ill vote sunbae or visor
Lissa let me know which one you prefer
I dont have access to pc but from my recollection ender/visor is a very weird fit so i guess that makes sunbae always a wolf
Visor is honestly so wolfy to me that i struggle to not think its just sunbae/visor but i guess sunbae/ender also has some equity
The wolves wincon is probably mislunching me and its why rask died over you imo
(I guess the villager in ender/visor/sunbae is also mislunchable but prolly easier to go for me?)
Well karma has a way of coming back I suppose, nearly broke my ankle on the way to work this morning
Nothing to do but laugh, sorry rask, sorry maple
Game ain't over till the fat lady sings though.
Ladd, can you please walk me through your thoughts on sunbae a bit more
Lissa, where are you at on ender
Ender, talk to me about Ladd and sunbae
Sunbae can you talk to me about how yesterday went down and where you are at rn
I will have time to reread tonight, but I'm onsite this week so won't be around much till then
Mention me if you got any questions and I'll get to them then
I will not be available until late tonight.
Note: swinging by again to say I have *thoughts* but I am not going to voice them yet. I either want the hammer or to vote first and I don't care which but I don't want to tip my leans either way yet.
What I will say is that I believe eod2 is the key to this game and think everyone should reread it. At various points all of Lissa, Ladd, Visor had voted Jan there and Ender has claimed a Jan kill there so someone is bussing (two of you are but you can't know that). Reread that with that in mind and determined what doesn't fit.
Secondly, read through Cape and Waza during that eod2. Their insights will be valuable.
Thirdly, I am taking the time to give myself a pat on the back for my growth in being able to play a werewolf game without letting it bother me when I do poorly. I would of course like to have been playing better but it does seem my reads were bad this game. I'd like to blame the awkwardness of eod and how staggered everyone was causing it to be a mostly isolated experience but really sometimes you just play bad. There will be lessons to be had on this one but my days of "oh naur this is awful i suck waaah" are long gone and it's a nice realization.
I am gonna be real, i have been in 2 f-x in my life as a villager afair and both times i voted super early (in one i snapvoted in my first post)
The temptation is strong in this one too, i wanna vote visor so bad even if sunbae is prolly the objectively correct vote
Just think visor is like always a wolf based on posting. If i am wrong sucks to suck
Ladd, can you please walk me through your thoughts on sunbae a bit more
My thoughts are:
- he fits as a wolf d1/d2, i dont mean it as an offense cause god knows my game here hasnt been pristine either but he def pushed villagers and had no contribution in the single wolf death so far
- d3 he posted well, i think the way he came to me/rask villa was good and correct and in general his solving spurt looked good to me
- unless you and ender are wolves together, he is still a wolf. I gotta refresh my mind on whats the odds of that and if yall are really as not w/w as i remember
Cause tbh based on posting wolfiness i think id go you>ender>sunbae if i just ignore everything else
Tho i realize lissa thinks exactly the opposite so uh oh
I guess the crux of this game to me is if its possible visor/ender are w/w or not
But i am going out tonight and dont feel like re reading so that will have to wait until tomorrow sorry
If there has been no vote, 50% i snap vote when i wake up
2nd drive by:
It would be super swell if Visor and Ladd crossed because I don't think Ender/Lissa are paired (eod2 lissa vote by ender). Then Ender can vote Visor and Lissa can vote Ladd and i can be lack claire and we can spend the rest of the day working it out from there.
As Ive thought about the game today I've kind of realized that I think our avenue to winning is me lack clearing myself via hammer mechanics because everyone seems to have me as their second wolf and therefore even if we vote right today we're probably in danger tomorrow. It's a bit of a hail mary but I do think this is winnable still (just more so if I get to hammer)
Essentially I think it is the mechanically correct thing:
- I think from your pov I cannot be w/w with Ender given his claim of the Jan kill, everyone believing it, and me spending half the day questioning it and then pointing out how he went from Jan/Maple wolf reads to voting Lissa over Jan and Maple.
- I think we can all agree Lissa/Ender makes the least amount of sense given Enders vote on Lissa at eod2 to make it 4-3
Which means from your povs the wolf pairs are (ignore yourselves in these):
Ladd/Visor
Ladd/Lissa
Ladd/Ender
Ladd/Me
Visor/Lissa
Visor/Ender
Visor/Me
Lissa/Me
The only path that doesn't contain either Ladd or Visor is Me/Lissa and you are all villa reading Lissa (and frankly if its me/lissa Im also not bringing up her push on Jan and talking about how much it worries me to be a bus so you should toss that too but w.e).
Given you also both wolf read the other it makes the most sense to start from there.
So, my goal for the first half of this game day is to somehow - with absolutely no credit to my name and having voted nothing but villagers - convince yall to listen to me and give me the hammer. If we can do this I can be clear and we can turn this game around to a much more favorable position.
Will I be able to do so? Im uncertain. It's ... the kind of villager-pilled audacity I normally see only people like Maple get to pull off so im gonna channel her the best I can.
My request is that if this is not agreed to then let me vote first tonight when I return (late overnight).
knights: sunbae is a wolf
Cape: sunbae is wolfy
Waza: sunbae is wolfy
Ladd: sunbae is wolfy
Visor: sunbae is wolfy
Me, channeling maple: I want you to ignore all this and instead give me the hammer
If it helps, this line sounds too absurd to be from a wolf who is in perfectly fine position?? suspected but people saying they are gonna vote someone else
I dunno about giving u hammer but i am down to vote visor
I doubt ill ever be able to get over him being a wolf anyway
If it helps, this line sounds too absurd to be from a wolf who is in perfectly fine position?? suspected but people saying they are gonna vote someone else
I mean so far only i have said who id vote
Everyone else could lean voting you (lissa/ender def seemed to w read u)
I mean so far only i have said who id vote
Everyone else could lean voting you (lissa/ender def seemed to w read u)
yeah i know, im grasping at straws. trying to convince myself more than yall lmao
ok im out again. my return will be overnight. if a wrong vote happens before i get back, gg was fun/tough. if not then we'll game when i see you again
Honestly my only hung up on voting visor is that lissa is prob more likely to vote me over visor and we d lose
But otoh i am not sure i feel like picking between you and ender rn
disappointing amount of card holding going on
i am probably going to vote tonight because i want my fate in my hands, have regretted holding too many times in too many games
time to reread
Im actually here a bit early if you wanna wait a sec and yap
Im actually here a bit early if you wanna wait a sec and yap
sure
I'd like to know what you thought of ladd's handling of me yesterday, specifically regarding me trying to get him to push maple (and him tangentially pushing them through me)
now i am aware this is heavy confirmation bias, but it felt to me like he was letting me basically go wild on that front, without actually being willing to dirty his hands with anythign surrounding maple
where do you stand on that, what were you thinking reading it?
i need to get a handle on lissas game, thoughts would help there too
while you're at it, what do you make of enders posts yesterday?
actually i also want to know your reaction when you saw the eod flip
like what was your snap response there?
hm. I looked back at his most recent post and it does make me feel a certain kind of way
to springboard off the commentary mode/sidelining line of thought a bit, the post brought to mind a certain sort of "sideline reasonable explainer" archetype i think is prolly somewhat >rand wolf
well I'd say this specific post fits that
I disliked you sheeping ender. Might be a wording issue, but enders entry was clearly not reasonable and should not be sheeped for no good reason.
Everything else you did was fine.
I disliked Lissa's post on me right now more, and she has been pushing on you before.
(The post she picked in context was a direct reaction to Ender, where I explain something that happened.)
In addition to that, it is the 2nd (?) time Lissa picks up someone's slight doubt and makes it her own push.
i need to get a handle on lissas game, thoughts would help there too
while you're at it, what do you make of enders posts yesterday?
One moment im pulling some votecounts to organize in one place. Then I will pull sequences from both Lissa and Ender and discuss them.
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 1 - Votes from post 5 through 92
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
2VisorCape90 (14 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866528&viewfull=1#post2053866528)), Raskolnikov (10 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866469&viewfull=1#post2053866469))
2Janladd (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866553&viewfull=1#post2053866553))
9Not VotingEnderWiggin (0), Jan (4), Lissa (2), Logic (0), Maple (2), Sunbae (9), Vanta Black (12), Visor (4), waza (8)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 1 - Votes from post 5 through 190
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
2LissaRaskolnikov (20 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866649&viewfull=1#post2053866649)), Visor (28 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866648&viewfull=1#post2053866648))
2Janladd (15 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866553&viewfull=1#post2053866553))
1VisorCape90 (22 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866528&viewfull=1#post2053866528))
1MapleEnderWiggin (17 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866598&viewfull=1#post2053866598))
1wazaSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866609&viewfull=1#post2053866609))
6Not VotingJan (7), Lissa (4), Logic (1), Maple (6), Vanta Black (14), waza (14)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 1 - Votes from post 5 through 211
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
2LissaRaskolnikov (20 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866649&viewfull=1#post2053866649)), Visor (30 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866648&viewfull=1#post2053866648))
2Janladd (15 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866553&viewfull=1#post2053866553))
1VisorCape90 (26 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866528&viewfull=1#post2053866528))
1MapleEnderWiggin (19 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866598&viewfull=1#post2053866598))
1wazaSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866609&viewfull=1#post2053866609))
6Not VotingJan (7), Lissa (13), Logic (3), Maple (7), Vanta Black (14), waza (14)
Deadline is in 8 hours.
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 1 - Votes from post 5 through 299
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3LogicCape90 (35 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866746&viewfull=1#post2053866746)), ladd (25 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866719&viewfull=1#post2053866719))
2LissaRaskolnikov (31 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866649&viewfull=1#post2053866649)), Visor (30 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866648&viewfull=1#post2053866648))
1MapleEnderWiggin (29 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866598&viewfull=1#post2053866598))
1wazaSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866609&viewfull=1#post2053866609))
1EnderWigginMaple (23 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866679&viewfull=1#post2053866679))
1Cape90Lissa (34 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866680&viewfull=1#post2053866680))
4Not VotingJan (16), Logic (3), Vanta Black (14), waza (14)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 1 - Votes from post 5 through 328
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3LogicCape90 (35 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866746&viewfull=1#post2053866746)), ladd (32 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866719&viewfull=1#post2053866719))
2MapleEnderWiggin (29 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866598&viewfull=1#post2053866598)), Visor (35 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866793&viewfull=1#post2053866793))
1VisorRaskolnikov (35 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866772&viewfull=1#post2053866772))
1wazaSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866609&viewfull=1#post2053866609))
1EnderWigginMaple (23 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866679&viewfull=1#post2053866679))
1Cape90Lissa (37 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866680&viewfull=1#post2053866680))
1JanVanta Black (18 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866770&viewfull=1#post2053866770))
3Not VotingJan (16), Logic (3), waza (16)
1.5 hours to deadline
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 1 - Votes from post 5 through 338
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
4LogicCape90 (35 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866746&viewfull=1#post2053866746)), Lissa (39 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866804&viewfull=1#post2053866804)), ladd (34 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866719&viewfull=1#post2053866719))
2MapleEnderWiggin (29 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866598&viewfull=1#post2053866598)), Visor (35 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866793&viewfull=1#post2053866793))
1VisorRaskolnikov (39 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866772&viewfull=1#post2053866772))
1wazaSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866609&viewfull=1#post2053866609))
1EnderWigginMaple (23 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866679&viewfull=1#post2053866679))
1JanVanta Black (18 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866770&viewfull=1#post2053866770))
3Not VotingJan (16), Logic (3), waza (17)
1 hour to deadline
d1 vc
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 396
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
2VisorRaskolnikov (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866844&viewfull=1#post2053866844)), waza (1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
1RaskolnikovVisor (2 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866846&viewfull=1#post2053866846))
1LissaSunbae (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866870&viewfull=1#post2053866870))
7Not VotingCape90 (2), EnderWiggin (0), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (2), ladd (1)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 427
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3VisorEnderWiggin (6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866901&viewfull=1#post2053866901)), Raskolnikov (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866844&viewfull=1#post2053866844)), waza (1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
2RaskolnikovSunbae (13 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885)), Visor (14 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866846&viewfull=1#post2053866846))
6Not VotingCape90 (9), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (3), ladd (1)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 456
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
2LissaRaskolnikov (16 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866934&viewfull=1#post2053866934)), ladd (4 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866908&viewfull=1#post2053866908))
2RaskolnikovSunbae (13 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885)), Visor (14 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866846&viewfull=1#post2053866846))
2VisorEnderWiggin (11 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866901&viewfull=1#post2053866901)), waza (13 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
5Not VotingCape90 (9), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (4)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 512
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
2LissaJan (6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866952&viewfull=1#post2053866952)), Raskolnikov (23 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866934&viewfull=1#post2053866934))
2VisorEnderWiggin (11 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866901&viewfull=1#post2053866901)), waza (15 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
2JanLissa (14 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866969&viewfull=1#post2053866969)), ladd (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866950&viewfull=1#post2053866950))
1MapleVisor (23 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866996&viewfull=1#post2053866996))
1RaskolnikovSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885))
3Not VotingCape90 (9), Logic (0), Maple (7)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 516
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
2LissaJan (6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866952&viewfull=1#post2053866952)), Raskolnikov (23 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866934&viewfull=1#post2053866934))
2VisorEnderWiggin (11 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866901&viewfull=1#post2053866901)), waza (15 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
2JanLissa (14 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866969&viewfull=1#post2053866969)), ladd (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866950&viewfull=1#post2053866950))
1MapleVisor (26 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866996&viewfull=1#post2053866996))
1RaskolnikovSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885))
2Not VotingCape90 (9), Maple (7)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 550
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
2LissaJan (6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866952&viewfull=1#post2053866952)), Raskolnikov (26 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866934&viewfull=1#post2053866934))
2VisorEnderWiggin (11 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866901&viewfull=1#post2053866901)), waza (20 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
2JanLissa (26 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866969&viewfull=1#post2053866969)), ladd (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866950&viewfull=1#post2053866950))
1MapleVisor (26 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866996&viewfull=1#post2053866996))
1RaskolnikovSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885))
2Not VotingCape90 (9), Maple (20)
d2vc through near eod (not all the way but mq is being weird)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 396
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
2VisorRaskolnikov (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866844&viewfull=1#post2053866844)), waza (1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
1RaskolnikovVisor (2 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866846&viewfull=1#post2053866846))
1LissaSunbae (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866870&viewfull=1#post2053866870))
7Not VotingCape90 (2), EnderWiggin (0), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (2), ladd (1)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 427
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3VisorEnderWiggin (6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866901&viewfull=1#post2053866901)), Raskolnikov (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866844&viewfull=1#post2053866844)), waza (1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
2RaskolnikovSunbae (13 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885)), Visor (14 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866846&viewfull=1#post2053866846))
6Not VotingCape90 (9), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (3), ladd (1)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 456
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
2LissaRaskolnikov (16 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866934&viewfull=1#post2053866934)), ladd (4 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866908&viewfull=1#post2053866908))
2RaskolnikovSunbae (13 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885)), Visor (14 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866846&viewfull=1#post2053866846))
2VisorEnderWiggin (11 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866901&viewfull=1#post2053866901)), waza (13 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
5Not VotingCape90 (9), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (4)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 554
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
2LissaJan (6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866952&viewfull=1#post2053866952)), Raskolnikov (29 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866934&viewfull=1#post2053866934))
2VisorEnderWiggin (11 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866901&viewfull=1#post2053866901)), waza (20 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
2JanLissa (26 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866969&viewfull=1#post2053866969)), ladd (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866950&viewfull=1#post2053866950))
1MapleVisor (26 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866996&viewfull=1#post2053866996))
1RaskolnikovSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885))
2Not VotingCape90 (9), Maple (20)
Deadline in 3 hours.
https://media1.tenor.com/m/GicN7ed8nJAAAAAd/uma-musume-takeshi-maenami.gif
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 588
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
4JanCape90 (19 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867065&viewfull=1#post2053867065)), Lissa (38 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866969&viewfull=1#post2053866969)), Visor (31 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867072&viewfull=1#post2053867072)), ladd (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866950&viewfull=1#post2053866950))
2LissaJan (6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866952&viewfull=1#post2053866952)), Raskolnikov (29 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866934&viewfull=1#post2053866934))
1Visorwaza (25 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
1RaskolnikovSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885))
2Not VotingEnderWiggin (12), Maple (20)
40 minutes
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 601
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
4JanCape90 (20 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867065&viewfull=1#post2053867065)), Lissa (42 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866969&viewfull=1#post2053866969)), Visor (36 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867072&viewfull=1#post2053867072)), ladd (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866950&viewfull=1#post2053866950))
3LissaEnderWiggin (13 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867077&viewfull=1#post2053867077)), Jan (6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866952&viewfull=1#post2053866952)), Raskolnikov (29 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866934&viewfull=1#post2053866934))
1Visorwaza (26 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
1RaskolnikovSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885))
1Not VotingMaple (20)
mq feature is borked for a lot sorry
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 675
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3wazaCape90 (29 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867157&viewfull=1#post2053867157)), Lissa (59 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867143&viewfull=1#post2053867143)), Visor (48 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867127&viewfull=1#post2053867127))
2LissaEnderWiggin (17 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867077&viewfull=1#post2053867077)), Raskolnikov (29 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866934&viewfull=1#post2053866934))
2Janladd (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866950&viewfull=1#post2053866950)), waza (40 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867152&viewfull=1#post2053867152))
1MapleJan (17 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867156&viewfull=1#post2053867156))
1RaskolnikovSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885))
1Not VotingMaple (20)
waza dies.
final vc
Visor is Ladd just bussing Jan from the get go? d1 and d2? And commenting that he doesnt agree with my v real on Jan because he's in commentary mode?
Like here's where I'm at:
- In order for Ladd to be a wolf I have to believe that he started bussing Jan from the start of the game while Jan never pushed back or bussed back on him for it to be w/w theater. Otherwise he just consistently voted Jan and defended 3 villagers (cape, waza, rask) who were all getting pushed.
- In order for Lissa to be a wolf I have to believe that she started getting heat early day 2, Jan was getting heat, and she began project confidently bus Jan then swapped to Waza when the opportunity presented itself. Otherwise she just buried Jan.
- In order for Ender to be a wolf I just have to believe he either claimed Capes shot on Jan or there was a mechanical ploy to try and send Ender deep. That is the only villagery thing for ender once maple flips v.
- In order for you to be a wolf you need to have voted as the 4th vote on Jan and then swapped to Waza when the opportunity presented itself.
Two of these things are true. Figuring out which two is where I'm at today
So now I'll go through those key sequences for Ender/Lissa
Vote: Unvote
I have had a day. Idk how much time I'll have to properly read leading up to EOD. But with this I think I'm more okay with Jan or Lissa dying over Visor now.
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 588
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
4JanCape90 (19 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867065&viewfull=1#post2053867065)), Lissa (38 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866969&viewfull=1#post2053866969)), Visor (31 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867072&viewfull=1#post2053867072)), ladd (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866950&viewfull=1#post2053866950))
2LissaJan (6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866952&viewfull=1#post2053866952)), Raskolnikov (29 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866934&viewfull=1#post2053866934))
1Visorwaza (25 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
1RaskolnikovSunbae (21 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885))
2Not VotingEnderWiggin (12), Maple (20)
40 minutes
I completely dozed off while trying to catch up lolme.
Vote: Lissa
why lissa now?
where are you at on jan?
EnderWiggin why did you choose to vote me over jan there
This is the sequence I'm going to win or lose t he game on and it comes down to can I decipher it correctly
Mechanically:
- Lissa today has confirmed to me that you do not have to use the parting gift which means Jan actively used it. If Ender is a wolf he votes Visor, says Jan + Lissa also wolfy, comes back and sees Jan/Lissa wagons and votes Lissa. When asked later he said to bring things closer and making it 4-3 does track. Perhaps Jan thought he could talk Ender into v reading him and use that shield because Ender voted Lissa over him. I could see it. The issue is it makes perfect sense for wolf ender to vote villager lissa in that spot, get the extra kill, then use the Jan kill to go deep. Perhaps I should have shut my mouth yesterday and just considered Ender clear then they probs kill villa ender.
I feel so dumb because Ender is either lock clear or outed and I can't figure out which
Visor has really talked about wanting to read Ender but then like not reading ender like twice today, in the second post being like "Ender is tomorrow's problem"
I'm a little mixed on EnderWiggin, like he has moments that feel natural, but then moments that feel kinda wolfy from like a static reads POV
but like #424 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866903&viewfull=1#post2053866903) into #425 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866904&viewfull=1#post2053866904) could be like towny n stuff in like a "hey they looked back and thats cool" kind of way
Vote:waza
Lissa seems like a really bad vote right now, like I think i'd vote quite literally everyone else in this lobby (besides self) over Lissa
Ok me, then why isn't it just visor/ender
Ladd pushed jan consistently
Lissa pushed Jan hard
Visor was vote 4 on jan then moved, Ender voted Lissa over Jan
Visor and Ender have been bringing each other up but nothing really ever came from any of it
Visor is Ladd just bussing Jan from the get go? d1 and d2? And commenting that he doesnt agree with my v real on Jan because he's in commentary mode?
Like here's where I'm at:
- In order for Ladd to be a wolf I have to believe that he started bussing Jan from the start of the game while Jan never pushed back or bussed back on him for it to be w/w theater. Otherwise he just consistently voted Jan and defended 3 villagers (cape, waza, rask) who were all getting pushed.
- In order for Lissa to be a wolf I have to believe that she started getting heat early day 2, Jan was getting heat, and she began project confidently bus Jan then swapped to Waza when the opportunity presented itself. Otherwise she just buried Jan.
- In order for Ender to be a wolf I just have to believe he either claimed Capes shot on Jan or there was a mechanical ploy to try and send Ender deep. That is the only villagery thing for ender once maple flips v.
- In order for you to be a wolf you need to have voted as the 4th vote on Jan and then swapped to Waza when the opportunity presented itself.
Two of these things are true. Figuring out which two is where I'm at today
its a fair point - though i think you are overstating his jan elements.
he did definitely post qualms about it for sure though. i will accept that his defence of rask was good and accurate.
i think there were others, but i remember pushing back a little against your jan v read d1, mostly because i didn't think he had done anything worth being so strongly in favour of
I liked cape, ender and sunbae the most when catching up today.
I think this was a good post by waza while everything else he did was kind of whatever.
Vote:Lissa
Raskolnikov
EnderWiggin
Cape90
Sunbae
waza
ladd
Visor
Maple
Lissa
This is my order right now.
Maple is not a wolf by play and just down there because everyone above has done things to be towny.
Rask is toptier purely on vibes.
Enders d1 intro rarely comes from a wolf and I liked his d2 start as well.
yeah i just dont know if i can get there on it being lissa friends
Ok me, then why isn't it just visor/ender
Ladd pushed jan consistently
Lissa pushed Jan hard
Visor was vote 4 on jan then moved, Ender voted Lissa over Jan
Visor and Ender have been bringing each other up but nothing really ever came from any of it
why wouldn't i just.... post a read on my bro, if we were w/w?
its not like i haven't done that plenty on here before
i mean thats just not how i wolf, if i'm going to bus a bro, i'll bus him till he dies and I get the credit
if i was a wolf with jan i just kill him and ride the credit to winning the game
its a fair point - though i think you are overstating his jan elements.
he did definitely post qualms about it for sure though. i will accept that his defence of rask was good and accurate.
i think there were others, but i remember pushing back a little against your jan v read d1, mostly because i didn't think he had done anything worth being so strongly in favour of
My concerns with the Jan elements are that he voted jan as a double voter immediately and then voted jan day 2 before leaving too.
HOWEVER i can understand how it happens if he expects to be afk and dead soon as was surprised he was alive? so im not locked in on anything, im working through it (i decided i wanted to puzzle solve instead of being hush hush, sue me)
My concerns with the Jan elements are that he voted jan as a double voter immediately and then voted jan day 2 before leaving too.
HOWEVER i can understand how it happens if he expects to be afk and dead soon as was surprised he was alive? so im not locked in on anything, im working through it (i decided i wanted to puzzle solve instead of being hush hush, sue me)
given jans activity and ladds, it wouldn't be somethign that surprises me
particularly if ladd was a role that had the ability to either detect or prevent poison, but thats speculation territory lol and idk how tinfoilly i want to get in f5
where do you stand on me then, given what you've said above?
why wouldn't i just.... post a read on my bro, if we were w/w?
its not like i haven't done that plenty on here before
i mean thats just not how i wolf, if i'm going to bus a bro, i'll bus him till he dies and I get the credit
if i was a wolf with jan i just kill him and ride the credit to winning the game
Ok I wanna take a step back and view things as you V and my feeling on Ladd v
What if we have this scenario:
- Lissa is leading vote getter d2 early
- Jan is being voted by Ladd for two day and is getting heat
- At one point they are tied for the lead
- Ender has been pushing you and maple then shifts to jan and lissa
- Lissa starts pushing Jan, Jan votes Lissa, votes are 4-2 and Ender votes Lissa because Jan has the parting gift
- The plan is to have Lissa go over, have Ender kill Jan, and solo hero as someone who pushed/killed both wolves
- They get bailed out because the waza wagon pops up, follow through on the jan plan since he already claimed so he has to send it to someone
and poof this game suddenly is so difficult because its massively muddled up with bussing galore
where do you stand on me then, given what you've said above?
I find you and Ladd villagery on posting still which is why Im struggling this game. Via posting I think you two are the villageriest two while mechanically/dealing with the deal wolf I think ender (killed)/lissa (push) are and I'm hung up in my "my vibes vs mechanics" torn viewpoints. I'm also baffled by how locked in both of you are on each other - you on him more given i think if you read his posts he's just been massively pro villa this game and you dont seem to have really considered that - but yeah. Part of me thinks both of you would have an easier time seeing the other as villagery as villagers so i also have a SMALL FEAR that its both of you.
here's the nightmare worlds for me at the moment
you/ladd w/w, where yall use the foregone conclusion of maple dying to set up for f5/f3
ladd/me (and one of sunbae/lissa/ender) v, because all it is is a waiting game until we lose
I find you and Ladd villagery on posting still which is why Im struggling this game. Via posting I think you two are the villageriest two while mechanically/dealing with the deal wolf I think ender (killed)/lissa (push) are and I'm hung up in my "my vibes vs mechanics" torn viewpoints. I'm also baffled by how locked in both of you are on each other - you on him more given i think if you read his posts he's just been massively pro villa this game and you dont seem to have really considered that - but yeah. Part of me thinks both of you would have an easier time seeing the other as villagery as villagers so i also have a SMALL FEAR that its both of you.
heres my problem with ladd:
i accept they have done towny things, and that they have made pro village actions. the problem is how ladd has treated me specifically, especially yesterday when it feels like its a turbo f3 and trying to bury someone, where it doesn't really matter if what you're saying is accurate so much as that it has enough behind it to make someone question long enough to vote wrong
i've talked about a few of my other problems with ladd, but at the moment thats the core one. i don't think hes ever tried to really find me as a villager and instead its more what can i sling to get heat onto him
frankly these days i am easily miskilled, pretty sure i've been miskilled in like the last 10 village games i've played lol, so when i see someone who should know better pushing that line it makes me think what the fuck is going on
if ladd is a villager, then my self focused lens and inability to look past it has failed me yet again, and it would be incredibly frustrating to lose such a winnable game because i couldn't get out of my head regarding it. so i will listen ofc, its f5 i refuse to not reconsider things
If it helps I think I can reasonably point to me/ender not being w/w (ive spent two days undermining him shooting jan, which side note i think should actually clear me because either im with ender and thats insane to do OR im a wolf with ender villager and why am im throwing a fit about something that is verifiably true which nobody else is even considering at the time nor really cares when i bring it up yet i keep harping on it)
I also point to ladd bringing up my jan shield and actively disagreeing with it while voting jan for two days as a reason him and i arent paired because i assure you we'd be more coordinated if we actually randed w/w together for once!
yay reads that are true but you can never believe til post game!
if i am being completely honest, i don't think i have played a more villagery game since.... god i don't know like 2022 or something lol (not that it has translated to being good at catching wolves apparently....)
i've actually had time to play this game for the most part and its been fun to play with you guys, but also a sad reminder of just how bad i am compared to where i used to be lol
heres my problem with ladd:
i accept they have done towny things, and that they have made pro village actions. the problem is how ladd has treated me specifically, especially yesterday when it feels like its a turbo f3 and trying to bury someone, where it doesn't really matter if what you're saying is accurate so much as that it has enough behind it to make someone question long enough to vote wrong
i've talked about a few of my other problems with ladd, but at the moment thats the core one. i don't think hes ever tried to really find me as a villager and instead its more what can i sling to get heat onto him
frankly these days i am easily miskilled, pretty sure i've been miskilled in like the last 10 village games i've played lol, so when i see someone who should know better pushing that line it makes me think what the fuck is going on
Ok I understand that. Do you think it could ever be ladd/lissa? In fact can I get your extended take on Lissa? You were around during the jan burial and eod so youd have a better understanding of the flow/vibes than i do reading it in hindsight
what do you make of jans first real post being a smackdown on ender?
if i am being completely honest, i don't think i have played a more villagery game since.... god i don't know like 2022 or something lol (not that it has translated to being good at catching wolves apparently....)
i've actually had time to play this game for the most part and its been fun to play with you guys, but also a sad reminder of just how bad i am compared to where i used to be lol
this game has been very fun and the org games remain goated. i have played what is likely a bottom 10% villa game so far but I will do my best to clutch it out at the end. I think if I get today wrong it will not be on anyone else but myself. Everyone here has plenty of villagery posting.
Ok I understand that. Do you think it could ever be ladd/lissa? In fact can I get your extended take on Lissa? You were around during the jan burial and eod so youd have a better understanding of the flow/vibes than i do reading it in hindsight
man i thought you would read my wall at the very least lol, i explained it there
Lissa: lissa is a funny one, if you look at d1 in isolation you could convince me she is a wolf - i came out pushing her a bit late d1 and early d2 in part because i don't think she really kicked on to anything - she felt like a sidelines/commentary character at that point. going into d2 i was expecting some heat there and she played in a way that is close to my heart - for the last while i have been very busy and it has been hard for me to play ww, sometimes i play a game and i just cant get a handle on it because i am not able to get invested or really absorb what people are posting. but occasionally i try to just focus in on one read that i am confident in v or w and push that because that is the only lifeline i have found that i can cling onto. sometimes i will do these things in mashes too when the game is too fast for my advanced years lol. when i saw her push on jan, i felt that kind of emotion, even if it isn't necessarily what lissa was doing, but because i have been there so many times over the last couple years that i saw myself there in what she was doing and it made me step back a bit and reconsider my push.
you could absolutely make the argument she bussed - the typical lines like one strong read, no real wavering, etc. i think (as i mentioned earlier) that holistically theres an argument for it and lissa is definitely canny enough to pull off the bus, but on an emotional level for me despite her d1, it is hard for me to get over seeing that line of play and coming away not village reading her. i think her play today has also similarly had an emotive level to it that she FEELS she is clear, particularly noting her bite back to rask earlier today. if shes a wolf shes fuckin me over like that thing game, which is unfortunate lol, but shes played well.
reflecting on this in hindsight i think theres a lot of wanting lissa to be v but its what i felt at the time at least. i need to reread things again and get a feeling for the timing of how things played out
no i read it (i believe that was the walls we xposted!) i just wanted to know how you feel right now once maple flipped v
heres where i am at now, apologies for jumbled mess of thoughts incoming:
i am torn between lissa voting jan being both villagery and wolfy, villagery because like duh obviously, it killed a wolf, wolfy because it came as a strong read, arguably the only strong read of substance lissa has had this game, when lissa was getting some heat and under the pump of the thread. back in the day i would've just probably locked lissa as a villager, because she usually struggled to bus and specifically would struggle to bus with any strength, however, when she schooled the fuck out of me in that thing game, she showed me that she has move far beyond where she used to be in terms of handling both wolf partners and pressure in thread. my heart wants her to be v, because she correctly found me as v in a position where i concede it could be difficult to do so, and the fact that we had similar thoughts at the same times on a variety of topics that didnt feel like she was trying to align herself with me.
my head knows that this kind of setup is the kind of setup that can win a game though, so its something i will be revisiting later tonight.
Lissa we probs v/v don’t vote me
Lissa do u really think visor sunbae and ladd can be pure and the wolves decide to n1 the slot visor called the biggest ml bait in the lobby?
ok i think i need to just stfu about this lissa/ender thing. cape thought lissa was clear too and if she gets us she gets us
no i read it (i believe that was the walls we xposted!) i just wanted to know how you feel right now once maple flipped v
i dont know? the fact she has managed to find me as v makes me desperately want to believe her.
like my god i just want to believe lol.
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 4 - Votes from post 942 through 997
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
5Not VotingEnderWiggin (0), Lissa (1), Sunbae (31), Visor (17), ladd (7)
Votes are locked.
Im going to iso each individual player now. I will not be pulling quotes as I got. I will also be periodically doing horses (i got two different 9 star one today!!!) and getting food so I will be in the mines for a while.
"i want to believe" is something i understand very well this game LOL
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