View Full Version : Kylo Ren's Banana Time Mafia
Im going to iso each individual player now. I will not be pulling quotes as I got. I will also be periodically doing horses (i got two different 9 star one today!!!) and getting food so I will be in the mines for a while.
congrats man
i can field a full stable of 18* now, i just wish i had the supporters to get my characters over the hump, without MLB supporters i am always just short of greatness
the support is worth so much more than the horses and i wish i knew that at the start :(
What if the plan was always to have Jan die?
EnderWiggin
Where are you at
gm
Ill vote sunbae or visor
Lissa let me know which one you prefer
I dont have access to pc but from my recollection ender/visor is a very weird fit so i guess that makes sunbae always a wolf
Visor is honestly so wolfy to me that i struggle to not think its just sunbae/visor but i guess sunbae/ender also has some equity
The wolves wincon is probably mislunching me and its why rask died over you imo
(I guess the villager in ender/visor/sunbae is also mislunchable but prolly easier to go for me?)
prolly sunbae, i need to look at some stuff and sort thru my thoughts more tho
honestly i wasnt even really surprised maple flipped v at all deep down i kinda expected it
i was lamenting not doing anything about it but idk that it was possible or useful and idk that i could have truly ever /cleared/ her so bleh
Well karma has a way of coming back I suppose, nearly broke my ankle on the way to work this morning
Nothing to do but laugh, sorry rask, sorry maple
Game ain't over till the fat lady sings though.
Ladd, can you please walk me through your thoughts on sunbae a bit more
Lissa, where are you at on ender
Ender, talk to me about Ladd and sunbae
Sunbae can you talk to me about how yesterday went down and where you are at rn
I will have time to reread tonight, but I'm onsite this week so won't be around much till then
Mention me if you got any questions and I'll get to them then
from my rereading, ender + jan would be fairly weird
wanna look at it again to feel more strongly about it, i think
Hi lissa
Where you at rn
I'm fried and so are my horses lol
Hi lissa
Where you at rn
I'm fried and so are my horses lol
catching up (well again, i skimmed today earlier) and trying to sorta decide where my thoughts are progressing
i stayed up an extra while past when i intended to last night finishing a career run lmao
my immediate reaction to the flip was basically: i kinda expected this on some level, i wish i did something with that, i think we're living in the sunbae/ladd hellworld
i still lean that but i need to really solidify it, delve deep on you to make sure i'm not misclearing you, delve deep on ender to make sure i'm not removing those worlds for bad reasons, just generally kinda look at a bunch of stuff again
2nd drive by:
It would be super swell if Visor and Ladd crossed because I don't think Ender/Lissa are paired (eod2 lissa vote by ender). Then Ender can vote Visor and Lissa can vote Ladd and i can be lack claire and we can spend the rest of the day working it out from there.
As Ive thought about the game today I've kind of realized that I think our avenue to winning is me lack clearing myself via hammer mechanics because everyone seems to have me as their second wolf and therefore even if we vote right today we're probably in danger tomorrow. It's a bit of a hail mary but I do think this is winnable still (just more so if I get to hammer)
i mean we lose the game on the spot if you're a wolf there though, i'm not voting before you sorry lmao
i'm squinting at that pretty hard, that only works to lock clear you if we decide we're willing to lose the game if you're a wolf already in the first place..
heres where i am at now, apologies for jumbled mess of thoughts incoming:
i am torn between lissa voting jan being both villagery and wolfy, villagery because like duh obviously, it killed a wolf, wolfy because it came as a strong read, arguably the only strong read of substance lissa has had this game, when lissa was getting some heat and under the pump of the thread. back in the day i would've just probably locked lissa as a villager, because she usually struggled to bus and specifically would struggle to bus with any strength, however, when she schooled the fuck out of me in that thing game, she showed me that she has move far beyond where she used to be in terms of handling both wolf partners and pressure in thread. my heart wants her to be v, because she correctly found me as v in a position where i concede it could be difficult to do so, and the fact that we had similar thoughts at the same times on a variety of topics that didnt feel like she was trying to align herself with me.
my head knows that this kind of setup is the kind of setup that can win a game though, so its something i will be revisiting later tonight.
to be clear, the reason that makes me a villager isn't that i couldn't do any of that as a wolf, because i absolutely could
the reason that makes me a villager is it's simply not what i /would/ have done there as a wolf; it was a day before mylo potentially. the most likely line i take is simply trying to kill a villager. i'm perfectly capable of bussing and reading a room for when bussing is optimal, and i actually don't think it was there. people were sorta all over the place. elim a villa, holster the parting, go to mylo, imo if i never brought jan into focus that was very very possible in a me/jan world
the SECOND most likely line i take is committing to killing jan at the eod instead of having him use the parting gift (this one doesn't really work very well in an ender also w world obv but i think that should clearly not be the world for other reasons anyway)
obv thats all kinda levels but shrug
i also think the way jan posted at me earlier in the game was pretty unpaired
i still think visor is a villa atm
i need to get some food and then in a few im gonna go drive around a quiet road
and then when i get back ill dig into things
Alright I'm gonna head to bed
Want to hear from ender at the very least before I vote
i'm squinting at that pretty hard, that only works to lock clear you if we decide we're willing to lose the game if you're a wolf already in the first place..
counterargument: play to win (clearing me in games im a villager when im likely to get mischopped in f3 even if we get it right today) rather than play not to lose (not giving me the hammer because itd be sad if i were a wolf)
counterargument 2: itd be such a hype play we'd all keep mentioning it in the future. "member that time you voted no wolves, everyone thought you were a wolf, but we yolo'd and gave you the hammer and cleared you and we ended up winning? that was cool" coming to a dvc conversation near you in 2028
counterargument 3: it would absolutely hilarious to give me the hammer, get mega hyped about yolo clearing me, and then i vote wrong anyways. Peak comedy.
Any of these swaying you?
i still think visor is a villa atm
Here's the problem with that to me: I am struggling to find Ladd wolf in this situation after reading his early game. He's villa reading Waza, Cape, Rask. He's voting Jan. He's refusing my Jan shield and voting Jan anyways.
If you are a villager and Visor is a villager then not only is the team Ladd/Ender but we have to somehow convince each other (me, you, visor) on the ones we are right about while pushing each other off the ones we are wrong about. Ya'll would need to convince me on Ladd while I convince yall on Ender.
It's not impossible but we have a lot of cooperative work to do if that's going to be the case and I'm not really sure where to start on there (which circles us back around to I think the best chance for us to win is to give me the hammer and I have no idea how to achieve this goal)
Argument that Ladd/Me world does not exist: A total lack of team cohesiveness. If Ladd is a wolf then he is clearly playing a pro villa game where he is clearing villagers under concern while pushing Jan from the get go. However neither Jan nor I are playing in a similar way. If I'm a wolf I am being massively pro-wolf where I push Waza then Rask then Maple. Jan was not playing pro village in that instance either. Yet in this case Ladd would not have anything negative towards me when people have found me wolfy from the get go? That the game plan would be for Ladd to be pro-villa while I'm pro-wolf but never have anything in the first two days for Ladd to point to about me?
I don't think any of that holds water.
counterargument: play to win (clearing me in games im a villager when im likely to get mischopped in f3 even if we get it right today) rather than play not to lose (not giving me the hammer because itd be sad if i were a wolf)
counterargument 2: itd be such a hype play we'd all keep mentioning it in the future. "member that time you voted no wolves, everyone thought you were a wolf, but we yolo'd and gave you the hammer and cleared you and we ended up winning? that was cool" coming to a dvc conversation near you in 2028
counterargument 3: it would absolutely hilarious to give me the hammer, get mega hyped about yolo clearing me, and then i vote wrong anyways. Peak comedy.
Any of these swaying you?
yeah i mean its a fair play if you are a villager, obv, been thinking about it while not itt and it's obviously a line that makes sense for you here in that world, was just kinda weirded out at you not acknowledging more the part where it /does/ require betting the game on you v in order to confirm you v
Argument that Ladd/Me world does not exist: A total lack of team cohesiveness. If Ladd is a wolf then he is clearly playing a pro villa game where he is clearing villagers under concern while pushing Jan from the get go. However neither Jan nor I are playing in a similar way. If I'm a wolf I am being massively pro-wolf where I push Waza then Rask then Maple. Jan was not playing pro village in that instance either. Yet in this case Ladd would not have anything negative towards me when people have found me wolfy from the get go? That the game plan would be for Ladd to be pro-villa while I'm pro-wolf but never have anything in the first two days for Ladd to point to about me?
I don't think any of that holds water.
i do agree that you and ladd as a team is /weird/ and i remember noting that at several points; need to remind myself of why (i hear the stuff you're describing, it was different stuff) again and see how much i think it holds up
Here's the problem with that to me: I am struggling to find Ladd wolf in this situation after reading his early game. He's villa reading Waza, Cape, Rask. He's voting Jan. He's refusing my Jan shield and voting Jan anyways.
If you are a villager and Visor is a villager then not only is the team Ladd/Ender but we have to somehow convince each other (me, you, visor) on the ones we are right about while pushing each other off the ones we are wrong about. Ya'll would need to convince me on Ladd while I convince yall on Ender.
It's not impossible but we have a lot of cooperative work to do if that's going to be the case and I'm not really sure where to start on there (which circles us back around to I think the best chance for us to win is to give me the hammer and I have no idea how to achieve this goal)
yeah from your pov if v i can see why you're looking towards visor
but i really don't think he's a wolf i think
I will not pick someone that I don't even think is town. Sorry.
I liked cape, ender and sunbae the most when catching up today.
I think this was a good post by waza while everything else he did was kind of whatever.
Vote:Lissa
vote: Jan
Just vibes mostly. I went over all his posts and didn't really see anything that said town. One post in particular about voting a villager so as to keep Knights around longer, as I guess his stumpness is over as soon as we ax a wolf. Kind of sounded like he thought he could make that happen. Anyway it pinged me.
Also I took an antihistamine and fell asleep at my computer which is not helping my mental sharpness at all.
Thought Ender's beginning series of posts was...strange? It seemed to me that it sounded like he had read the thread, but then was reacting to things as if he had not read the thread (like not knowing that Knights had flipped, and there was something else that now escapes my woozy brain). He looked better to me later though.
Of the current vote leaders. logic hasn't said a lot but also only a few posts, while Lissa has a lot of posts but I can't remember her saying a lot in all those posts. So if I had to go with one of those two it'd be Lissa.
yeah i mean its a fair play if you are a villager, obv, been thinking about it while not itt and it's obviously a line that makes sense for you here in that world, was just kinda weirded out at you not acknowledging more the part where it /does/ require betting the game on you v in order to confirm you v
Yeah I get it. Which is why I called it audacity!
Could I get your thoughts in as much detail as possible on a potential Visor/Ladd world? Earlier I called it the most logical one if I just ignore posting (ender shoots jan, you heavily case jan, visor and ladd are just good posting woofs). And if you don't want to be convincing me because you think I'm a wolf pretend you're convincing Ender of it!
Yeah I get it. Which is why I called it audacity!
Could I get your thoughts in as much detail as possible on a potential Visor/Ladd world? Earlier I called it the most logical one if I just ignore posting (ender shoots jan, you heavily case jan, visor and ladd are just good posting woofs). And if you don't want to be convincing me because you think I'm a wolf pretend you're convincing Ender of it!
not sure gimme a few I'd honestly have to look. I haven't really even thought about that world; a lot of my thinking about stuff in general yesterday sorta got cut off from having time to play out and I townread visor so strongly that's not really an angle I was even really thinking about
Oh I think I solved the game hold on
Ill make the game slightly easier and say i am never even looking at lissa, i just dont see them as a wolf ever
Its not even jan spew, i just dont think they are a wolf based on posting
The wolves are 2 in visor/sunbae/ender
Sunbae is playing a sick f5 if he is a wolf ngl
I am trying to ignore valuing f5 posting too much but eh
(More sunbae/ladd w/w ammo :curtain:)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 4 - Votes from post 942 through 1025
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
5Not VotingEnderWiggin (0), Lissa (13), Sunbae (39), Visor (22), ladd (9)
Votes are locked.
The question that has been plaguing me since sod3 is “why did Jan give the gun to ender” and I haven't been able to figure it out. The missing piece popped into head just now skimming Lissa's earlier post: that she held the parting gift because she was afraid of using it if Maple was a villager and ending the game.
The part about holding the parting gift was the part I initially focused on because it confirmed to me that Jan could have held it and chose not to. Which really blew my mind given the fact that the wolves were about to be going to final 8 with 3 of them alive. That's one mischop left to win in a game where the village was all over the place and Maple was lined up as everyones most likely wolf. Even if Jan holstered it and people wanted to find him as outed for it he still gets chopped and then we kill Maple the next day and lose.
It made no sense to me and I've been going back and forth on it. The part that just clicked for me is that you have to submit your target before end of day. It's a day action.
Well now there becomes a logical option that explains everything. Jan submit the action before Waza died right at the last second via Cape's vote. In fact Jan told us when he submit: Post #649. Of course if Jan dies then his submission doesn't matter. But it matters a whole lot if he lives. Again it gives us a free miskill if he lives.
Unless.
A wolf dies anyways. Well then Jan sending to Ender makes sense because we're about to go to 6/2, NOT 5/3. And one of the two is Jan who just had to claim to save himself and is not long for this world.
The wagons when Jan submit in #649?
3 votes Jan
3 votes Lissa
and then lissa voted elsewhere to put herself in the lead.
Imagine if you will Jan expecting to either die or for Lissa, a teammate, to die. Sending the shot to Ender to go the distance is a hail mary but one that is perfectly logical. It's 6/2, he kills Jan to make 6/1 instead of chopping Jan we chop Maple, 4/1 and a lot of in fighting between ladd/rask/visor/myself. Nobody thinks its weird for Ender to live over any of them at end game. The path is set.
Then, surprise. Waza dies. It's 5/3 now. If we chop Jan next its 4/2. We sleep. Its 3/2 and really tight. Theyve had to make two night kills. Why not just take the sleep out of the way and get the maple chop through? Ender and Lissa are in great shape now if Jan dies (after all, they started bussing each other for after lissa died so they dont look paired).
Why is lissas Jan push the only part of the game she has conviction? Why does ender vote Lissa over Jan/Visor/Maple? Why does Jan send a gun to Ender during the day?
Because they are wolves.
Ill make the game slightly easier and say i am never even looking at lissa, i just dont see them as a wolf ever
Its not even jan spew, i just dont think they are a wolf based on posting
The wolves are 2 in visor/sunbae/ender
well thats a hell of an xpost lol
The question that has been plaguing me since sod3 is “why did Jan give the gun to ender” and I haven't been able to figure it out. The missing piece popped into head just now skimming Lissa's earlier post: that she held the parting gift because she was afraid of using it if Maple was a villager and ending the game.
The part about holding the parting gift was the part I initially focused on because it confirmed to me that Jan could have held it and chose not to. Which really blew my mind given the fact that the wolves were about to be going to final 8 with 3 of them alive. That's one mischop left to win in a game where the village was all over the place and Maple was lined up as everyones most likely wolf. Even if Jan holstered it and people wanted to find him as outed for it he still gets chopped and then we kill Maple the next day and lose.
It made no sense to me and I've been going back and forth on it. The part that just clicked for me is that you have to submit your target before end of day. It's a day action.
Well now there becomes a logical option that explains everything. Jan submit the action before Waza died right at the last second via Cape's vote. In fact Jan told us when he submit: Post #649. Of course if Jan dies then his submission doesn't matter. But it matters a whole lot if he lives. Again it gives us a free miskill if he lives.
Unless.
A wolf dies anyways. Well then Jan sending to Ender makes sense because we're about to go to 6/2, NOT 5/3. And one of the two is Jan who just had to claim to save himself and is not long for this world.
The wagons when Jan submit in #649?
3 votes Jan
3 votes Lissa
and then lissa voted elsewhere to put herself in the lead.
Imagine if you will Jan expecting to either die or for Lissa, a teammate, to die. Sending the shot to Ender to go the distance is a hail mary but one that is perfectly logical. It's 6/2, he kills Jan to make 6/1 instead of chopping Jan we chop Maple, 4/1 and a lot of in fighting between ladd/rask/visor/myself. Nobody thinks its weird for Ender to live over any of them at end game. The path is set.
Then, surprise. Waza dies. It's 5/3 now. If we chop Jan next its 4/2. We sleep. Its 3/2 and really tight. Theyve had to make two night kills. Why not just take the sleep out of the way and get the maple chop through? Ender and Lissa are in great shape now if Jan dies (after all, they started bussing each other for after lissa died so they dont look paired).
heres the thing
i was absolutely not in real contention to die at that point
i am absolutely confident that as things stood as of post 649 i was never dying and this was extremely clear inthread
on a concrete level, visor was off wagon and would clearly always go jan over me there
anyway, honestly jan sending in that world makes arguably even less sense because he should look better if i flipped wolf and the fact that it's mechanically correct for the target of that to just kill the user if they don't hard clear them
gonna wait for ladd to chime in on that
can i at least have an acknowledgement that im kinda villagery for trying to figure this out lissa? a lil cookie plz
Sorry friendo but i think thats a lot of assumption when the explanations could easily be "for fun" or simply "to send ender deep"
I think jan/lissa look unaligned from super early on (d1) and lissa pushed jan in a moment where there was no need to as a wolf. Their posting since show the mindset of a villager who thinks they are clear and yesterday they clearly had a lingering paranoia that imo only villagers are able to show as subtly as lissa did
I get thats maybe not the best explanation but in the end they are just a villager posting like a villager imo
Like yesterday you could clearly see they were paranoid of maple flipping v and scared of hell world but didnt have enough convinction to push against it
IM GONNA WAIT FOR VISOR
(lol ok ok fine ill finally drop it)
Why is lissas Jan push the only part of the game she has conviction? Why does ender vote Lissa over Jan/Visor/Maple? Why does Jan send a gun to Ender during the day?
Because they are wolves.
re: ender vote, imo me and jan were the "real wagons" at that point
iirc ender was wolfreading me and jan at the time
in the ender world (well in that the gun prob went to cape not ender iyam but sorta semantics tbh)
it is a bit hard to parse why ender votes me in that world instead of just voting jan given the presumably known of at least in idea of claiming the thing
i honestly kinda just think this line is another layer of you hail marying as a wolf but
I do think eod 2 i sthe key which is why i hope yall can check visor reaction to jan claim cause its the most outing part of his play
He is not looking at jan claim in a critical way, he is not trying to figure out if its wolfy or not
He just says "well if we are not killing jan" like its something agreed upon
Like i said everytime he pushes jan his heart is not into it
gonna wait for ladd to chime in on that
can i at least have an acknowledgement that im kinda villagery for trying to figure this out lissa? a lil cookie plz
i mean it is an angle that makes sense for you to consider as a villa prob, given you think ladd v strongly
just
also like yeah ender/jan/x team has plenty of motivation to try to use jans clearly coming death to try to set ender up well even tho i dont really think it was /optimal/ to do so
also if i was on his wolfteam i would have for sure pushed him super hard to holster but thats a funny and not particularly useful level for a lot of reasons (but it is true) (but he wouldn't have to listen) (but anyway)
I am ngl i def would have pushed for some fun gambit even if it loses some win % lmao
lissa, there have been multiple times today you have responded with some form of "this line makes sense for you take as a villager" to my posts and i am begging you to take a step back and realize (or at least openly explore!) thats because im a villager instead of an omega mega mind wolf who happens to know the exact right lines villager me would be thinking of
I do think eod 2 i sthe key which is why i hope yall can check visor reaction to jan claim cause its the most outing part of his play
He is not looking at jan claim in a critical way, he is not trying to figure out if its wolfy or not
He just says "well if we are not killing jan" like its something agreed upon
Like i said everytime he pushes jan his heart is not into it
i mean i am about to look at it again atm i've been going over his posts again but i kinda had a similar thought myself in the moment that it was mechanically optimal to let that action happen
like if you are v i guess this is the fundamental disconnect in our reads on visor and really what it comes down to right like
idk i just felt like we were very much on the same wavelength at that eod
also the thread in general we were very much talking about an alternative to jan for the day
the if we dont kill jan made actually perfectly fine sense in context? i don't understand this line
i thought the claim timing was pretty wolfy but idt i ever vocalized that and i still moved off jan cause it felt in the moment mechanically correct/optimal
i mean it is an angle that makes sense for you to consider as a villa prob, given you think ladd v strongly
Why do you think i am a wolf tho? Why do you think visor is a villager? Why cant visor and sunbae both be wolves?
I think bar you i am the most easily findable villager this game tbh just based in d1/d2 (and even d3)
lissa, there have been multiple times today you have responded with some form of "this line makes sense for you take as a villager" to my posts and i am begging you to take a step back and realize (or at least openly explore!) thats because im a villager instead of an omega mega mind wolf who happens to know the exact right lines villager me would be thinking of
well it's not really some omega mega mind thing it's a simple fact of like the ways the game can be structured? if you are confident in ladd v it has to be two of me, visor, ender, so exploring me/ender makes sense from that pov
it's not like it's some super specific exact lines you'd take as a villa it's straightforward lylo stuff
i /am/ considering worlds where you are a villager arguably more than i feel like i should, i am straight up openly giving weight to that possibility MORE than i feel in my head like i should lol
idk i just felt like we were very much on the same wavelength at that eod
And it ended in a waza mislunch. Makes you think
(This seems snarky but i really mean that it makes you think)
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 06:34
Ngl I knew I probably wasn't gonna die after Maple flipped town but I was hoping.
Why do you think i am a wolf tho? Why do you think visor is a villager? Why cant visor and sunbae both be wolves?
I think bar you i am the most easily findable villager this game tbh just based in d1/d2 (and even d3)
i'm not sure i even do. i need to reread you. i'm in the process of rereading visor's posts, right now. i think you took that sentence differently than i intended, i was literally just meaning that as a mechanical fact, if he is villa and confident you are there's 2/3 in me ender visor.
i don't think there's anything that says visor and sunbae can't both be wolves, as a combination. i have absolutely no thought along those lines and i'm frankly confused at why you think i do. i have a strong individual village read on visor - which i am in the process of trying to make sure i think is actually correct
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 06:36
I did like 0 work rereading. I don't have a good reason except that I saw Maple's flip and closed the tab lol.
But I'm alive and it's F5 so it's time for me to drag myself through thread and work out where my brain has got to.
And it ended in a waza mislunch. Makes you think
(This seems snarky but i really mean that it makes you think)
i mean i do indeed acknowledge that but the point i was making that was what you're describing him as saying/doing w/r/t jans claim and etc, so was i just in a different way? and i know i'm a villager? who was having that pov? so i don't see how it would be /outing/
Let me ask both of you then:
What path can I take to be viewed as a villager? You have both spent days in this game thinking I was posting villagery - you both defended me on day 2 and day 3! - and we have found ourselves in a final 5 where I am being told that really there's nothing I can do for you to find me even if we get a wolf today.
This results in me being in a position where I either find ways for you to find me or I have to just hope ya'll are wolves together. And I don't really think that's the case but I'm not sure how else to approach this day. I feel like I'm by far the villageriest person in the thread today.
i'm not sure i even do. i need to reread you. i'm in the process of rereading visor's posts, right now. i think you took that sentence differently than i intended, i was literally just meaning that as a mechanical fact, if he is villa and confident you are there's 2/3 in me ender visor.
i don't think there's anything that says visor and sunbae can't both be wolves, as a combination. i have absolutely no thought along those lines and i'm frankly confused at why you think i do. i have a strong individual village read on visor - which i am in the process of trying to make sure i think is actually correct
Alrighty, you seemed to think it was me/sunbae.
This is post 48 for me and I'm gonna call it here to conserve for later/tomorrow. Will be reading along.
Ender hi! we yet again pass each other like ships in the night but im looking forward to your takes on my posts
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 06:39
EnderWiggin
Where are you at
Idk. I'm throwing out my entire reads list I think. I do find it hilarious that I got to Jan correctly through being wrong on Maple but I'm obviously shot in terms of my frame of game understanding.
In terms of out of thread I just didn't have the energy this morning to start the task of rebuilding my worldview. Still feels like a monumental task but if I don't get started I'm gonna procrastinate so here I am.
i mean i do indeed acknowledge that but the point i was making that was what you're describing him as saying/doing w/r/t jans claim and etc, so was i just in a different way? and i know i'm a villager? who was having that pov? so i don't see how it would be /outing/
Visor is not the type of player who would let a wolfy player claim pr (not even pr really) and just go "ok lets kill someone else"
Shrug.jpg
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 06:40
This is post 48 for me and I'm gonna call it here to conserve for later/tomorrow. Will be reading along.
Ender hi! we yet again pass each other like ships in the night but im looking forward to your takes on my posts
Lmao. How does this keep happening.
Let me ask both of you then:
What path can I take to be viewed as a villager? You have both spent days in this game thinking I was posting villagery - you both defended me on day 2 and day 3! - and we have found ourselves in a final 5 where I am being told that really there's nothing I can do for you to find me even if we get a wolf today.
This results in me being in a position where I either find ways for you to find me or I have to just hope ya'll are wolves together. And I don't really think that's the case but I'm not sure how else to approach this day. I feel like I'm by far the villageriest person in the thread today.
i didn't say that or at least i'm not trying to say that
and i mean i spent days thinking everyone in this thread alive now was posting villagery and half of them are wolves
but also like i don't really know the answer to your question tbh
i'm trying to figure out whether you're a villager and how to find you if you are
Alrighty, you seemed to think it was me/sunbae.
i mean if i had to guess the wolfteam in the next 30 seconds or lose i think that's what i'd be most likely to snap off
Let me ask both of you then:
What path can I take to be viewed as a villager? You have both spent days in this game thinking I was posting villagery - you both defended me on day 2 and day 3! - and we have found ourselves in a final 5 where I am being told that really there's nothing I can do for you to find me even if we get a wolf today.
This results in me being in a position where I either find ways for you to find me or I have to just hope ya'll are wolves together. And I don't really think that's the case but I'm not sure how else to approach this day. I feel like I'm by far the villageriest person in the thread today.
1) i never defended you d2 nor d3, i am confused why you said so (lissa even less since they thought you were a wolf d3)
2) i said i have visor>ender>sunabe as the order from most wolfy to least but visor/ender is a bit of an harder fit than visor/sunbae to me. But i def am mor ethan willing to consider ender/visor world
Visor is not the type of player who would let a wolfy player claim pr (not even pr really) and just go "ok lets kill someone else"
Shrug.jpg
i mean it wasn't really about it being a pr claim it was about it being potentially self resolving. from a pov of jan having /any/ villager equity it was mechanically correct to wait, because he could literally resolve himself for free lmao
i mean it wasn't really about it being a pr claim it was about it being potentially self resolving. from a pov of jan having /any/ villager equity it was mechanically correct to wait, because he could literally resolve himself for free lmao
He could have just picked another wolf or holstered and said he neighbourized the nk and he would not have self resolved
His claim was nai iyam
He self resolved but we all were surprised by it lmao
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 06:46
Ender, talk to me about Ladd and sunbae
Sunbae has had several posts I remember as thinking "This is Sunbae thought process as town" originally. (I remember there was a Waza read I think?) I pretty much checked out too deeply on thinking about it until I was reading yesterday's posts and found them a little conclusiony, and I was also keyed in that Sunbae seemed to be defeatist about a Maple vote and I thought that might have been pairing.
Maple's town flip means I want to reread that sequence before I pass judgement, but the conclusiony statement stuff is probably my biggest questionmark there.
Ladd I honestly am not great at reading. Especially when he swings for me, since I feel like I default to wolf a lot when sometimes he's not. I know he susses me a bunch either way. But I thought with Maple and everything I was pretty sure he wasn't a wolf as well. (Jan/Ladd/Maple didn't feel like it would play the way it did ya know?)
But again I'm not gonna hold to that just yet.
This is post 48 for me and I'm gonna call it here to conserve for later/tomorrow. Will be reading along.
Ender hi! we yet again pass each other like ships in the night but im looking forward to your takes on my posts
You are not gonna vote today? Or yes?
until I was reading yesterday's posts and found them a little conclusiony,
@ender which ones? Cause i feel yesterday sunbae's posting was insanely open minded
Also i am confused why being defeatist on maple flip would mean w/w?
You are not gonna vote today? Or yes?
Im gonna be up for a bit and see how the spurt goes with Ender and what else comes up. I will vote before I go to bed unless someone votes first in which case im gonna give the biggest cherry plead emoji for the hammer lmao
(49)
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 4 - Votes from post 942 through 1062
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
5Not VotingEnderWiggin (5), Lissa (22), Sunbae (49), Visor (22), ladd (21)
Votes are locked.
He could have just picked another wolf or holstered and said he neighbourized the nk and he would not have self resolved
His claim was nai iyam
He self resolved but we all were surprised by it lmao
well yes if he doesn't die you just kill him
thats why i said, from a pov of him having any villager equity
his claim was nai at best (wolfy imo in timing)
you don't not kill him because the claim was villagery you opt to not kill him because if he's a villa or tries to go for a spicy play (not something id have expected, the relevant world is mainly the former) he's literally an extra, free, kill for the village/missing on him doesnt take an elim/etc
idk that it was actually correct in that specific situations for a few reasons both including how wolfy i thought he was and where we went instead/our lack of appealing alternatives in the moment and the last minute ness of it, but i do think generally speaking letting it resolve is mechanically correct there in many cases
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 06:54
@ender which ones? Cause i feel yesterday sunbae's posting was insanely open minded
Also i am confused why being defeatist on maple flip would mean w/w?
Conclusiony in that they felt more like conclusions than what I associate with Sunbae town which is collaboration with players they find towny.
I'll be honest I'm not sure how much that actually reflects the posts, I'm catching up on today then will reread and get back to you.
Defeatist on maple flip I thought sus because it felt like they were trying to discourage it but didn't want to defend Maple directly? Like idk I find that's a generally wolfy position for a wolf about to go over is the "trying to drain momentum but not defending" approach.
Obviously irrelevant because Maple flipped town but I was expressing why I had that at eod /shrug
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 06:56
I feel so dumb because Ender is either lock clear or outed and I can't figure out which
I feel this is just my state of existence in most games lol. I'm either lock clear or outed and voted out no matter my alignment.
Defeatist on maple flip I thought sus because it felt like they were trying to discourage it but didn't want to defend Maple directly? Like idk I find that's a generally wolfy position for a wolf about to go over is the "trying to drain momentum but not defending" approach.
Ill say the same thing i said to visor - no sane wolf was ever gonna defend maple there as w/w, it was incredibly obvious the lunch wasnt gonna swing anywhere
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 07:08
lissa, there have been multiple times today you have responded with some form of "this line makes sense for you take as a villager" to my posts and i am begging you to take a step back and realize (or at least openly explore!) thats because im a villager instead of an omega mega mind wolf who happens to know the exact right lines villager me would be thinking of
I'm ngl this is the wolfiest post I've seen so far this phase.
You literally just finished casing me/Lissa as the two wolves and then you turn around and plead with Lissa like they're a villager.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 07:09
I just remembered that I had some read about how Lissa is definitely town based on how she is being treated/handled by wolves and I feel like I'm re-inforcing that mental idea but I'll double check in case this is a "Maple wolf" thought that I haven't dropped properly
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 07:11
Okay caught up. Today's posting kinda leads me to a Sunbae + 1 of Ladd/Visor. (Partially just because Lissa I'm inclined towards town.)
But now I reread thread from start.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 07:17
Actually I'm gonna answer "Why would wolf!Sunbae spend a day saying I'm wolfy when no one was buying it."
Because I was gonna chop Maple. It would've taken a massive swing (Or Maple posting something that shocked me out of my tunnel) for that not to happen. And when Maple flips town I look a lot less towny than I did moments before.
Plus I have a history of being mischopped on Org. Not necessarily early so much but I've been lategame mischopped quite a few times. And you know that. If you post things to undermine my position then Maple flips town from my tunnel no one will blink at me not being nightkilled and then I'm a possible ml for you and you lose nothing for having been the DoomSayer.
(I will explore town!Sunbae worlds a bit later because I think I'm already tunnelling myself and I don't want to Maple again. But I am definitely talking myself into this world atm lol.)
hmmm, i suppose if ladd, visor, lissa, and ender have all called me their leading candidate then its time to just vote and see if i got it right then go to sleep
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 07:21
Reading D1 the idea of a Jan/Visor/Ladd wolfteam is kinda hilarious but also something I'm gonna keep tabs on. (Esp because I could see Ladd saying "Let's bus to get cred and give Knights the win." esp if the other wolf partner was already 2 votes up at that point. This is probably a dumb read but it was funny.)
mrg
sunbae if you're a villager i believe that i /can/ and /will/ find you
im sorta struggling to rub two brain cells together rn but i should get a second wind of sorts pretty soon i think to do this reread of the game better
hmmm, i suppose if ladd, visor, lissa, and ender have all called me their leading candidate then its time to just vote and see if i got it right then go to sleep
Brah i am confused why you keep saying that. I made it clear my top candidate is visor
mrg
sunbae if you're a villager i believe that i /can/ and /will/ find you
im sorta struggling to rub two brain cells together rn but i should get a second wind of sorts pretty soon i think to do this reread of the game better
ok, i will hold off then. also to respond to ladd, youre right. you did say that visor >>> then me/ender. apologies. i cannot promise i will vote tonight then if lissa wants to do a reread but no rush i suppsose.
10 left
ok, i will hold off then. also to respond to ladd, youre right. you did say that visor >>> then me/ender. apologies. i cannot promise i will vote tonight then if lissa wants to do a reread but no rush i suppsose.
10 left
i didn't really mean for you to hold off voting tbh
moreso that if you are a villager and vote a wolf i believe that i can get there
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 07:40
Lmao I love the lmao read
Lmao
(For real though I'm a sucker for those kind of reads, but I've seen Ladd use it a few times and it doesn't really stand out to me)
The visor post seems wolfy
Too wordy :curtain:
K
:curtain:
IsThisTheater.jpg
hopw does ender react with "glad we agree on something"
just to turn around and scumread the same post and vote maple based on it.
and all that in reaction to a reaction to the treestump.
Calling out knights readslist is pointless because you know his flip already.
agreeing with that callout just to turn on it does not make it any better.
Not even wolfy because it feels too sloppy to be a wolfplay. Just wrong on every level.
Stupid wasted note here but I honestly feel this is unpairing for me. Jan straight up shades me and goes "But nah it's not wolfy just ignore this man". Like when is that your first reaction to a wolfbuddy arriving in thread.
-----
I am reminded that I do not like Visor asking every new person in thread their take on my posts. Feels strongly like trying to get a vibe check and seeing if I'm ML bait yet.
Sunbae's D1 feels kinda towny I still like their poking around Waza.
----
Finished D1 and I think the idea that it could be Ladd/Visor w/w is niggling my brain some. Ladd sussing both partners on-and-off over D1 without much follow up is something I could see with how ladd/me w/w in a game a while back spent most of D1 pushing each other and then voted Newcomb out eod1.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 07:42
I will say D1 didn't give me a good reason to townread Lissa. I for some reason was expecting to feel better about her by EOD1. But I'm still like pretty sure there was some good reason for me to have cleared her so holding it while I finish rereading.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 07:47
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 427
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3VisorEnderWiggin (6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866901&viewfull=1#post2053866901)), Raskolnikov (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866844&viewfull=1#post2053866844)), waza (1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
2RaskolnikovSunbae (13 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885)), Visor (14 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866846&viewfull=1#post2053866846))
6Not VotingCape90 (9), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (3), ladd (1)
I kinda dont think visor is a wolf now
But i dont think rask is a wolf either (more strongly so)
Not sure if them being v/v works out tho lol
:curtain:
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 07:55
I liked cape, ender and sunbae the most when catching up today.
I think this was a good post by waza while everything else he did was kind of whatever.
Vote:Lissa
Raskolnikov
EnderWiggin
Cape90
Sunbae
waza
ladd
Visor
Maple
Lissa
This is my order right now.
Maple is not a wolf by play and just down there because everyone above has done things to be towny.
Rask is toptier purely on vibes.
Enders d1 intro rarely comes from a wolf and I liked his d2 start as well.
This isn't clearing for Lissa but for Spew that's kinda a very good look. I think I've already pointed at this sequence before but I'm rebuilding my shit so nyeh.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 07:57
I'm worried I'm misremembering how Sunbae plays so will reread some other games after my reread. Because even D2 I'm noticing this sort of detatched "These are my conclusions" posting without invoking interactions. And my brain is screaming at me that V!Sunbae spends too much time trying to align thoughts and reads with their townreads.
Hopefully I remember this better than I have other meta-observations.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 08:06
i mean it is straight up just downplaying all the work sunbae has done because it isn't at eod
and because sunbae is wolfreading waza
super self focused
waza/jan w/w :curtain:
Ooops found Visor/Sunbae w/w thoughts too.
I am gonna vote visor at :30
If someone has any reasons for me not to speak uo befofe then
Sorry if wrong visor but i re read and i am just not getting there
mmh I'm starting to remember why I didn't think it was sunbae ladd ig
rereading the game also makes me definitely remember why i townread sunbae
hrm
im sort of afraid of the ender/sunbae world, but its probably not that realistic
wrt the shot i do think enders posting around it was kinda villagery and some of the nuances of the details of his conversatino with jan i.e. the thing about jan correctly townreading ender and bringing it up, are not that likely to be faked
and ender has been villagery today
feel like the more i see the less i know
vote:visor
Sunbae/ender probably has some equity but i just cant get there on visor being a villager. Sorry if wrong, thats on me
yeah i think it's a real viable world but i don't think i have anything i could reasonably convince you of it by so if it is the world well oh well ig?
not hammering etc
if it's the world i should have just voted sunbae ages ago, but then we would still lose in f3 still anyway pretty sure soooo shrug i guess
Yea i mean we will find out soon
Even if i am right, i think its gonna still be tough winning the 1 vs 1 against visor but we will see
1 step at a time lmao
i in fact did NOT solve the game earlier
(7 or 8 left, this is me noting it. if ender and lissa split their vote i can confirm im villa before bed and yall can spend the next day solving with a clear pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee itd be hype and i genuinely think its the best path to victory)
alright well it's not sunbae ender then that's data
Alrighty nice
Cant say i didnt do my job
ngl i am actually so glad there's a vote down that's somehow very immediately soothing
i'm definitely not ready to vote yet
I cased visor pretty hard yesterday (d3) already
Idk how much more i can say esp given i am stuck on phone now
But like visor genuinely pushed only villas this game - cape, vanta, waza, maple, rask
There is not even 1 unflipped where u can say "hey maybe he pushed a wolf"
His strongg push in maple in particular is so uncharacteristic for him - even if maple was a wolf it would still be wolfy of him to make such a weak oush so late into the game. He really should have been looking at sunbae (he said he wasnt a wolf cause he doesnt make long posts as a wolf lol)
Also couple of notes on why i am not a wolf:
- i pushed jan from early d1 despite using dunbae read there as a crutch was frre and again d2 left my vote there when i knew i would be afk
- eod1 i wolfread visor and rask told me to vote him. Wagins were 3/2 logic and visor. If i am a wolf i just switch to visor and get a high value mislunch rather than mislunch logic which was a freebie
- i nk lissa over rask, rask said they thiught i was a villager
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 08:43
Observed and not voting.
Idk if this makes my ladd/visor idea less or more likely but I'll come back to that I suppose lol.
Its also pretty suicidal to vote visor as a wolf here given lissa reads
I mean if its me/ender i make ender vote sunbae or hell i vote sunbae
If its me/sunbae, lissa would be dead tonight
(he said he wasnt a wolf cause he doesnt make long posts as a wolf lol)
wait did he actually wtf
Observed and not voting.
Idk if this makes my ladd/visor idea less or more likely but I'll come back to that I suppose lol.
If u think i am a wolf with visor after d3 u are a wolf friendo
Its also pretty suicidal to vote visor as a wolf here given lissa reads
I mean if its me/ender i make ender vote sunbae or hell i vote sunbae
If its me/sunbae, lissa would be dead tonight
yeh
if it's you/visor you just let sunbae vote
or you/ender
and if its you/sunbae, it is weird that you didnt just kill me lmao
(tbc im not really entertaining you/visor as a REALISTIC option, moreso just kind of outlining why its indeed weird in all the worlds)
whats up with enders eod?
sunbae could totally be a wolf - if you make the argument i will listen. i thought he posted well d2 (and i'm not sure ive seen him post those walls as a wolf LOL)
also i think that big post is probably an important post to read lol
i sympathise with his reaction to village reading jan and feeling like he should've got there earlier but i do think that jan is a hard wolf to catch early so i might be putting my perspective too much into his then
i think he has posted better than you, frankly
rask is possible but i think now i have cooled my jets on him a little i think he is just having a shocker given how he has posted this day phase and i don't get the impression he is faking having a bad game, but ymmv on that read
First line here (not exactly a v read but p much)
First line here (not exactly a v read but p much)
mm yeah uh
squint
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 08:59
If u think i am a wolf with visor after d3 u are a wolf friendo
Awkward that's the one day I'm not done rereading lmao.
Awkward that's the one day I'm not done rereading lmao.
Well imo u should vote next
Feel free to take your time tho
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 09:13
Ngl being told I'm wolf if I entertain Visor/Ladd makes me want to entertain Visor/Ladd wolfteams.
I have re read jan and i feel he had every excuse to wolfread ender and did not
In fact he basically writes a mini case but then has him as top villa
If sunbae d1/d2 didnt exist, it would be so easy to just say the wolves are visor/ender gg
But with visor/jan being wolves sunbae s first ciuple of days just dont look great which is a shame cause i think he posted amazing d3/d4
Ender has eod2 which is pretty terrible otoh
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 09:17
Visor/Sunbae w/w is a hilarious world tbh. Mostly for the Gacha game convos.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 09:20
i got very lucky with having 2 3 star powers (i didnt even know i had them lol until i started learning about sparks)
i've been running 12 Power and 6 speed (i have two 3 star speeds and a 3 star wit)
if i could get like 9 power and 9 stamina thatd be nuts.
the grind continues
i wish the carrot income wasnt so godawful though
carrot income is miserable and so much of the game after a certain point boils down to "you cant really get better until you pull more of the good ssr cards" which is pretty frustrating. definitely an example of a good game made worse by being a gacha :(
yeah its annoying to feel like i am capped because of lack of resources that are SO sparce
like its 30 per day, which is 2 pulls every 10 days.... insane given how many pulls you need to uncap/mlb let alone get trainees
if you get lucky in time trials you get..... 3. they could quadruple the rate and it would probably still feel slow but its just glacial.
i know they do these big events and stuff but just making playing on a regular basis worthwhile seems to be something they dont care about.
--------
sunbae can you talk a little about rask when you get a chance, just like big picture or something
scrolling through his iso rn and i still kinda hate a bunch of posts lol
"Let us get our interactions in thread."
"How so? Shall we demurely discuss a townread and come to an agreement?"
"No. Horsegirls."
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 09:21
Ender has eod2 which is pretty terrible otoh
Is it bad that my first response to people repeating this is the trite self-meta that I wouldn't have been that bad as an actual wolf? =P
Is it bad that my first response to people repeating this is the trite self-meta that I wouldn't have been that bad as an actual wolf? =P
Yes cause i have seen u try to save uh i wanna say syn or zelda in exactly that way as a wolf
Tho i have also seen you have eods like that as a villa in your defense
EnderWiggin
08-20-2025, 09:25
Yes cause i have seen u try to save uh i wanna say syn or zelda in exactly that way as a wolf
I'm pretty sure my attempted Zelda save involved me hyper-tunnelling another slot which is kinda different =P
Though that was pretty terrible so I guess I'll pay it a lil
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 4 - Votes from post 942 through 1114
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
1Visorladd (35 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867599&viewfull=1#post2053867599))
4Not VotingEnderWiggin (25), Lissa (36), Sunbae (52), Visor (22)
Votes are locked.
sunbaes p1 posts would honestly just be kind of sick if sunbae/ladd were both wolves, lol
this is actually the stupidest read of all time but 52 feels slightly unpaired
If i was a betting man, id out somebucks down that logic will be lunched today
lmao
(not any kind of alignment read, i just thought it was funny)
describing jan as doing obvious villager things at that point was certainly weird
Cape/Rask/Sunbae/Waza likely has 0 wolves. Vanta maybe there too but reserving judgement.
I am not going to snap read Ladd because I have no idea if this is opportunistic wolfy Ladd or if it's towny Ladd who wolfreads me randomly. (Last game alone is an example of Ladd calling me "Second wolfiest poster in this thread" while we were v/v)
Visor is visoring tho I'm a lil sketched at their incessant poking of people to read me. Lightest shade of red.
Jan feels wolfy. Maple feels wolfy. Lissa doesn't feel.
I don't know if I forgot someone but I think those are my reads atm.
we know sunbae/ender not the team, so if enders a wolf that is a very accurate village list lol
and at least squinting at multiple wolves
ofc there is the whole thing where ender didnt actually vote jan when it came down to it
I do agree lissa is prob villa
I dont wanna lunch cape cause i think waza is a villager, he is super good at reading cape and was thinking villa there
Ender second spurt of posts seems fine, i had some problems with the first one but prolly dont care to go there now
Jan/sunbae w/w would be fun and crossed my mind but i think a comment jan made makes me doubt it so ill take jan as v for now as a sheep
I was joking about visor post being too wordy but thr post itself kinda pinged me cause it really seemed to be assumin too much. Idk kinds reminds me of when he opened as a wolf saying me/waza w/w but the explained versione
also potentially a fun post lol
anyway, this was another reason i thought sunbae ladd not w/w and i feel quite good about that now i would say
im sad i rolled over to maple dying lol
also forgot ladd was basically the original reason i wolfread jan, basically brought him into scope
man imagine the timeline where we just killed jan d1 lol
visor noting multiple pushes on jan separately on separate days as sort of sticking neck out some way or another feels like something readable
Ngl i was expecting jan to put me back in my place after he came back full of meds from the dentist
I am a bit disappointed
mildly unpaired post?
eod1 vc was kinda funny
the more of visor's posts about rask i read the more.. mm
ender did have some kinda unpairedish stuff with jan, looking back to d1 cause i wanted to look at ender/visor more closely than i had the first time i reread it here
I am still ~kinda confident Rask is town. Confidence shaken but not stirred.
Vote: Visor
Honestly don't have a super big scumread on Visor myself, but given their still as-of-yet unexplained obsession with getting people to react to me on D1 and Rask+Waza being here I'm willing to entertain it for now while I stare balefully in Maple's general direction.
i was wondering about this and how it relates to the chance of them being paired but visor being obsessed with people reacting to ender d1 honestly just seems like an exaggeration
It's a relief to know I wasn't insane, got that read right at least
I'll be around tonight to go through everything
I was thinking if ender killed jan as w/w, he risked being poisoned technically no? I guess the only option would be that cape killed jan and ender claimed the kill
Ill be afk until morning probably
Tomorrow is also my birthday (30 is coming) so i dont know how much ill be around but i will def pop in
I'll be home in about an hour half if anyone (Ladd excluded) wants to chat realtime
its funny, i felt a sense of both relief and something akin to self hatred at seeing the vote
like yes, i was right that ladd was a wolf, and i made a good call on a good wolf player, but i should've just voted earlier and been true to myself instead of convincing myself that i should wait for ender. i nearly picked up the phone and just voted and shut it off lol, but i couldn't quite pull the trigger.
i know that doesn't actually mean anything in the grand scheme of things, but i just wanted to be better than i am
always room for improvement i guess.
its tough to actually go through with doing these things lol
ill be around soon
i think the core of this game is going to come down to a few things, but i think a major point is how d3 played out
d3 in hindsight was a shit show, mostly my fault for tunneling maple into oblivion to be fair, but from the way d3 played out i think it should be clear to see that i cared about getting to the right answer, at any cost. maple was a puzzle piece that fit perfectly in my mind (perhaps too perfectly), given jan's activity levels, maple's lack of posting/solving, i felt like that HAD to be the answer, it just felt right in the way that good wolfreads should do, where you have ticked all the boxes and newcomb gives you a prize and a pat on the back. i didn't let others take the fall for maple, i took maple down singlehandedly with my tunnel, which is not exactly a great argument to peddle in f5 lol, but its the truth and i did it because i believed wholeheartedly that they were going to flip wolf. on the other hand ladd was not interested in taking that poisoned chalice and instead associated me a lot with maple to put me in a negative light to give him that room to work with going into f5. i was loud, brash and confident that i had that good read and that i was going to be vindicated. at the end of the day villagers and wolves can do anything for any reason but i think my actions show what a villager does when they have a read they believe in like i did, compared to wolves, who know the answers, and have to play around and plan for the future in a way that i think d3 demonstrates.
part of me thinks that the way ladd has treated lissa today is all about appealing to them to get them onto their side and that they aren't aligned, which would leave the last wolf in sunbae and ender
sunbae gave himself room yesterday to turn around on me, but has also v read me multiple times in that stretch, which just makes things hard to parse
ender/ladd i was pushing v early and i just cant get those d1 interactions out of my head, the turnaround just had no real logical rhyme or reason to it
but if ladd knows or thinks he is going down, it is possible he is setting up his bro to win in f3, which is likely sunbae/ender/lissa because i doubt their wolf bro tries to argue its a ladd/me world
man i fucking hate meta but i might resort to digging up old games for this lol
when it comes down to it i think theres three stories to the last wolf
1. did lissa bus?
to me this is a question for whoever is in f3 to decide. i totally understand the argument and logically it makes sense. but at the end of the day i just feel in my heart that lissa had a real read on jan and that we thought the same things at the same times because we were villagers on the same wavelength. we are not the most alike people, but in this i feel like wolf lissa would've struggled to match me, if she happened to get there by chance, thats a rough go and you can feel free to blame me if she is indeed a wolf and i cause yall to get it wrong. i think her uptick d3 and her reaction to ladd and ladds appeals to her make sense if she is v. i think her reaction to raskol d3 has a villagery ego to it in a way you get when you feel you have earned the right to be clear in a way that felt real to me in the moment.
gun to my head i would say she's a villager, but in f3 who knows, and if i make it there i'm not just going to lock her clear.
2. was sunbae's d3 a setup
this one is an interesting reverse of lissa's d3 in that lissa grew into a stronger read on me and a weaker read on ladd. if sunbae and ladd are wolves, it would make sense that sunbae gave himself room to push me and switch from village reading lissa and myself to wolfreading us and setting me up to potentially vote lissa and himself to vote me, giving them options in how to handle the day. sunbae has hemmed and hawwed over me today and oscillated from read to read. this is probably the hardest to parse for me just because sunbae is such a good player and i think the way he has played d3 was very smart if he was one. on the other hand i totally understand the indecisiveness and struggling to parse how this game has played out, feeling that i am a villager by my posting. i really liked his d2 and the way he approached the game. i'm not sure how to feel about ladds handling of him, including being very hands off and his posts towards me d3 basically pushing me for village reading sunbae. its something i wish i had like a month to sit on and think but i don't. ladds d3 was intended to set him up for f5, so in that case do i think that he was trying to set sunbae up as well in case it doesn't work? i would love for this to be a game where sunbae and i are v/v and we put the solve together in f5 to turn around the game, but i am just scared, lol.
3. terra nullius
at the end of the day i try not to care about mechs, what i care about are posts. i think at the end of the day ender probably has the worst posting of the remaining three. ofc if lissa is a wolf d2 was wild. i like his reaction to me d2. I liked his sod3, he felt like he had an ego about him and had some energy to his posting. i flip flop back and forth about his d1 posting and ladd going from lock wolf to its okay. i wonder if ladd thought that I was gonna dumpster ender and reacted like that, only to pull it back when nobody bought and he didn't need to actually bus. if i had to pick someone most likely to be a wolf, on balance it would probably be ender by a hair, but i can see the world where he is a villager low on time and took the gift horse from jan with the wolves expecting it to buy them that extra kill late because theres no way he could clear himself.
hopefully i am not in f3 to decide, f5 is stressful enough lol
alright i am here
the ac seems fucked so it's 82 in our apartment and i am sitting at a barstool in the kitchen with a fan pointed right at me and i have no room to rest my arms lol
3/10 definitely not as bad as last year
anyway, i do think you are really villagery at a lot of points
everything in me says that i can and should just be decisive here but when it comes down to it, i have no idea what to do lol
alright i am here
the ac seems fucked so it's 82 in our apartment and i am sitting at a barstool in the kitchen with a fan pointed right at me and i have no room to rest my arms lol
3/10 definitely not as bad as last year
anyway, i do think you are really villagery at a lot of points
everything in me says that i can and should just be decisive here but when it comes down to it, i have no idea what to do lol
82 is awful jfc.
i cannot wait for winter. are you any closer to moving back to the house yet? lol
everything in me says that i can and should just be decisive here but when it comes down to it, i have no idea what to do lol
lol i understand this more than you can know. i knew i should've voted last night and just made the decision. i lost monty python on MU because i was too afraid of voting and then tim eventually voted me in part because of it. and yet here i am all these years later still making the same goddamned mistakes.
i just hate being wrong and i hate the feeling of people judging me lol. especially in endgame when it really is all your fault.
82 is awful jfc.
i cannot wait for winter. are you any closer to moving back to the house yet? lol
lol i understand this more than you can know. i knew i should've voted last night and just made the decision. i lost monty python on MU because i was too afraid of voting and then tim eventually voted me in part because of it. and yet here i am all these years later still making the same goddamned mistakes.
i just hate being wrong and i hate the feeling of people judging me lol. especially in endgame when it really is all your fault.
yeah i hate summer. this one actually was fairly mild up until this month at least but its ramped up to be hot now
stuff is soooorta progressing but my moms friends husband who she wanted to use as a contractor but it turned out this dragged out so long he doesn't have time anymore cause he's trying to retire at the end of the year said he didn't think it'd be done by the end of the year LOL
we are hoping he is wrong
insane stuff
paralyzing fear of losing the game to being wrong in lylo has always been an achilles heel of mine
i have overcome most of my other confidence/fear of wrongness related issues and this one has improved to some extent but it is still pretty real ig lol
i reaaallly feel the judgement thing. i have spent a lot of time over the years reminding myself that misvoting at lylo almost never truly puts the loss 100% on you, the rest of the game took steps that got you there too
its hard to internalize in the moment though
i lost the j anon game in part because i waited so long to vote wiggles who i was pretty sure was the wolf
i reaaallly feel the judgement thing. i have spent a lot of time over the years reminding myself that misvoting at lylo almost never truly puts the loss 100% on you, the rest of the game took steps that got you there too
its hard to internalize in the moment though
i lost the j anon game in part because i waited so long to vote wiggles who i was pretty sure was the wolf
yeah same with me and dya. it still hurts tbh.
obviously it takes a village to both win and lose a game, but people don't remember some random early game kill, they remember what ended the game.
its hard to get over the fear of being wrong, and i am beginning to suspect it will be a lifelong process lol. especially when you have some self ego that means you want to be right and that being wrong in such a pivotal moment really crushes that.
yeah i hate summer. this one actually was fairly mild up until this month at least but its ramped up to be hot now
stuff is soooorta progressing but my moms friends husband who she wanted to use as a contractor but it turned out this dragged out so long he doesn't have time anymore cause he's trying to retire at the end of the year said he didn't think it'd be done by the end of the year LOL
we are hoping he is wrong
insane stuff
paralyzing fear of losing the game to being wrong in lylo has always been an achilles heel of mine
i have overcome most of my other confidence/fear of wrongness related issues and this one has improved to some extent but it is still pretty real ig lol
that is truly awful, i am sorry for how badly that whole thing has gone
yeah its tough
i remember one game on pog where i lost to wolf insanity in f3 and i got a lot of shit for it, but it really made me think about how many things had gone wrong in particularly the day before f3 (iirc a consensus villager did something mechanically that risked his life and died and some other things i dont remember)
i realized a lot of things from losing both that and the infamous voxx f3 where people were so tilted from dvc i didnt even postgame in public lol
i have had some pretty good village games lately and finally started to develop like a healthy level of self confidence/ego in my village play so to speak but its still hard in lylo when it comes down to it lol, especially when i dont really feel like i can come to a confident answer
also maintenance brought in a portable ac i guess there is something wrong that it's too late to figure out today LMAO
yeah its tough
i remember one game on pog where i lost to wolf insanity in f3 and i got a lot of shit for it, but it really made me think about how many things had gone wrong in particularly the day before f3 (iirc a consensus villager did something mechanically that risked his life and died and some other things i dont remember)
i realized a lot of things from losing both that and the infamous voxx f3 where people were so tilted from dvc i didnt even postgame in public lol
i have had some pretty good village games lately and finally started to develop like a healthy level of self confidence/ego in my village play so to speak but its still hard in lylo when it comes down to it lol, especially when i dont really feel like i can come to a confident answer
also maintenance brought in a portable ac i guess there is something wrong that it's too late to figure out today LMAO
lol
thats gonna wreck the electricity bill.
and yeah i feel that. these days i don't tend to join dvc and try to just process by myself and try not to be too hard on myself when i suck... which is often lol
where do you stand on sunbae and ender rn lissa?
that is truly awful, i am sorry for how badly that whole thing has gone
its pretty nuts, the hoa person a lot of stuff is supposed to go through just seems to hate playing ball among other issues and there's not really much in the way of options for us to go over her head or deal with that
i will say on the note of ac, one of the upsides is that our ac unit before was REALLY fucking old and kinda sucked, it didn't cool upstairs very well at all, i spent a lot of summer nights over the years either sleeping downstairs on the couch or hot as fuck trying to sleep in my bed
and apparently the newer ones are a lot better lol
lol
thats gonna wreck the electricity bill.
and yeah i feel that. these days i don't tend to join dvc and try to just process by myself and try not to be too hard on myself when i suck... which is often lol
yeah its not ideal, i am hoping that tomorrow whatever the issue is gets fixed lol
dvcs have been better lately than they i guess were for a stretch i am told, i guess mostly the stretch where i was barely playing
full spoiled dvcs borderline dont really seem to exist anymore in most cases or they happen at the very very end sometimes
where do you stand on sunbae and ender rn lissa?
mmmmm
rereading early game made me remember why i thought sunbae was so villagery
cause damn he posted villagery there
i think funnily in some ways i sort of have a reversed view on his posts where i feel like he was really villagery early on, but his posts today a lot of them really made me feel... idk, a lot of the ways he's gone about the audacious line he took today feel like almost open wolfing, they felt very sunbae wolf in a way i can't put my finger on how to really explain. but some of his most recent stuff sorta felt real
ender... idk. he has some sort of unpaired looking stuff with jan but it's not giga strong. i do find myself thinking about the jan parting gift thing today (to respond to ladd mentioning this earlier, yes if ender is a wolf the parting gift almost certainly actually went to cape not jan) and its definitely /weird/ if ender is v, but idk how much weight i want to put on that. him voting me at eod2 over jan was uh... i don't love it.
you feel extremely villagery to me a lot of the time and a lot of ladd's posting at points is also actually kind of wild if he's a wolf. my worry of having lost to sunbae/ender world when he voted was pretty real lol
there a reason you haven't voted him back yet btw
there a reason you haven't voted him back yet btw
not really, was just gonna vote him before going to bed, didn't seem like there was a particular need to vote him asap
its pretty nuts, the hoa person a lot of stuff is supposed to go through just seems to hate playing ball among other issues and there's not really much in the way of options for us to go over her head or deal with that
i will say on the note of ac, one of the upsides is that our ac unit before was REALLY fucking old and kinda sucked, it didn't cool upstairs very well at all, i spent a lot of summer nights over the years either sleeping downstairs on the couch or hot as fuck trying to sleep in my bed
and apparently the newer ones are a lot better lol
yeah its not ideal, i am hoping that tomorrow whatever the issue is gets fixed lol
dvcs have been better lately than they i guess were for a stretch i am told, i guess mostly the stretch where i was barely playing
full spoiled dvcs borderline dont really seem to exist anymore in most cases or they happen at the very very end sometimes
mmmmm
rereading early game made me remember why i thought sunbae was so villagery
cause damn he posted villagery there
i think funnily in some ways i sort of have a reversed view on his posts where i feel like he was really villagery early on, but his posts today a lot of them really made me feel... idk, a lot of the ways he's gone about the audacious line he took today feel like almost open wolfing, they felt very sunbae wolf in a way i can't put my finger on how to really explain. but some of his most recent stuff sorta felt real
ender... idk. he has some sort of unpaired looking stuff with jan but it's not giga strong. i do find myself thinking about the jan parting gift thing today (to respond to ladd mentioning this earlier, yes if ender is a wolf the parting gift almost certainly actually went to cape not jan) and its definitely /weird/ if ender is v, but idk how much weight i want to put on that. him voting me at eod2 over jan was uh... i don't love it.
talk to me about his d1 posts - i thought they were fine but i thought he improved more d2 and d3
ender is a tough one - on balance he probably just has the worst posts, but he is also just a perfect target for this kind of setup.
i will say in some ways it has felt like the sunbae of today is two different people at different times and has felt different today compared to earlier in the game
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 4 - Votes from post 942 through 1141
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
1Visorladd (37 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867599&viewfull=1#post2053867599))
4Not VotingEnderWiggin (25), Lissa (47), Sunbae (52), Visor (35)
Votes are locked.
not really, was just gonna vote him before going to bed, didn't seem like there was a particular need to vote him asap
yeah fair enough ig, just sort of usually expect those crossvote responses to be immediate
talk to me about his d1 posts - i thought they were fine but i thought he improved more d2 and d3
ender is a tough one - on balance he probably just has the worst posts, but he is also just a perfect target for this kind of setup.
mm definitely moreso d2, i mainly meant at least one person (maybe just ladd?) said he was really villagery today and im just kinda like...
d1 had some moments that felt villagery but thinner ye
thats def a thing re ender
i will say in some ways it has felt like the sunbae of today is two different people at different times and has felt different today compared to earlier in the game
yeah thats like kinda part of what i mean i think, it feels like he switched on a certain mode i guess
Vote: Ladd
now you have to post another tally :curtain:
yeah fair enough ig, just sort of usually expect those crossvote responses to be immediate
mm definitely moreso d2, i mainly meant at least one person (maybe just ladd?) said he was really villagery today and im just kinda like...
d1 had some moments that felt villagery but thinner ye
thats def a thing re ender
yeah thats like kinda part of what i mean i think, it feels like he switched on a certain mode i guess
i mean i woke up, checked the thread and then went to work lol :P
but yeah i honestly felt in the moment like a lot of his posting today was like super super openwolfing level, its hard to explain but it just really felt like that, but i didnt think it would be productive or useful to react that openly/intensely like that in case he is a villa lol
cause it certainly isnt impossible
and from my position itg i felt comfortable doing something like that
but yeah i honestly felt in the moment like a lot of his posting today was like super super openwolfing level, its hard to explain but it just really felt like that, but i didnt think it would be productive or useful to react that openly/intensely like that in case he is a villa lol
cause it certainly isnt impossible
and from my position itg i felt comfortable doing something like that
yeah it seemed strange to me, but i basically did the same thing, i figured if hes a villager it might be helpful for him
you got any thoughts on what i posted earlier btw?
in retrospect its possible i could have gotten better value out of expressing that intensity a bit more, i am not sure. his reaction to how i played it definitely feels like it should be very readable though
ye fair re the vote back etc, i just asked cause its unusual, and i think often its conventionally wolfy (idk if that actually holds up) but i dont really think i care about it here
you got any thoughts on what i posted earlier btw?
read it over a few times and been thinking about it
ladds ender progression was def weird
i actually still need to finish rereading d3 to fully engage with some of it, the sunbae and ladd d3 stuff
50
i think the core of this game is going to come down to a few things, but i think a major point is how d3 played out
d3 in hindsight was a shit show, mostly my fault for tunneling maple into oblivion to be fair, but from the way d3 played out i think it should be clear to see that i cared about getting to the right answer, at any cost. maple was a puzzle piece that fit perfectly in my mind (perhaps too perfectly), given jan's activity levels, maple's lack of posting/solving, i felt like that HAD to be the answer, it just felt right in the way that good wolfreads should do, where you have ticked all the boxes and newcomb gives you a prize and a pat on the back. i didn't let others take the fall for maple, i took maple down singlehandedly with my tunnel, which is not exactly a great argument to peddle in f5 lol, but its the truth and i did it because i believed wholeheartedly that they were going to flip wolf. on the other hand ladd was not interested in taking that poisoned chalice and instead associated me a lot with maple to put me in a negative light to give him that room to work with going into f5. i was loud, brash and confident that i had that good read and that i was going to be vindicated. at the end of the day villagers and wolves can do anything for any reason but i think my actions show what a villager does when they have a read they believe in like i did, compared to wolves, who know the answers, and have to play around and plan for the future in a way that i think d3 demonstrates.
its def interesting to read this in context of how i viewed things, and in retrospect i should have talked a lot more about that in the moment but on some level it felt like that elim sort of had to happen but i still regretted it because i did deep down think she was town on some level it was just kinda weird to find the actual world so i sorta half talked myself into maybe she is just a wolf, hoping for it maybe more than anything else lol, and i didnt really feel like i could hard commit to a clear on her 100% there and i feel like to not kill here there you kinda just have to decide you will never kill her. but i saw the flip and i was just kinda like yep and i desperately wished i had even though idk if it was even realistic, probably not at all lol, just one of those things that felt like it shouldve been more in my power/control than it really was
51
in retrospect its possible i could have gotten better value out of expressing that intensity a bit more, i am not sure. his reaction to how i played it definitely feels like it should be very readable though
ye fair re the vote back etc, i just asked cause its unusual, and i think often its conventionally wolfy (idk if that actually holds up) but i dont really think i care about it here
read it over a few times and been thinking about it
ladds ender progression was def weird
i actually still need to finish rereading d3 to fully engage with some of it, the sunbae and ladd d3 stuff
50
i think it has more to do with turbos than long games if memory serves
regardless, you got any questions for me before i head to bed?
yeah prob more relevant there ig
i cant think of any more questions really
52
EnderWiggin
08-21-2025, 03:38
Unironically I do not understand how I am the "worst poster".
This isn't even a bite back at Visor because, like, this gets said a lot about me. No matter my alignment. It's easier to swallow when I'm wolf because like... I am a wolf lol.
But when I'm town like this game and last game where Ladd (who turned out town that game) said "Ender is the wolfiest poster in thread atm" and I'm like...
Idk what to do about it bruv but I either get that or I'm told I'm posting really well and I do not understand the difference in my posts.
It's probably something because it's too much of a trend to be simply people being dumb but I have never managed to work it out.
(This also didn't used to be a thing when I tryharded. It's pretty much become a thing since I started playing relaxedly)
EnderWiggin
08-21-2025, 03:40
Also I was writing something up last night but then fell asleep and went to work this morning forgetting to check what I was working on so lolme.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2025, 03:41
(I would blame "wolfy posting" on being chill but apparently other people can be chill and still post towny so idk)
EnderWiggin
08-21-2025, 04:05
Ill be afk until morning probably
Tomorrow is also my birthday (30 is coming) so i dont know how much ill be around but i will def pop in
I don't know why I'm surprised anymore by players that I think are good being younger than me.
spending a post to announce i am here, that i have yet to see anyone put forth a strong stance on a team that does not involve me, and that i would like to see it at some point plz n thx. time to take the stands and make the pick, nobody is going to hate on anyone for being wrong this game because nobody has been right about anything relevant this game. we will all tell ourselves that we could have done better when its over and laugh about some of the stuff (i personally think my ender/lissa team is funny in hindsight i had my charlie kelley pepe silvia corkboard going) and also because it is a chill org game with friends. let us not stress ourselves out about dvc and worrying its like old toxic ones of the past (of which i still profusely apologize for being mad on the voxx one lissa, that was a me problem and not a you problem).
so lets all shrug off this general mentality of "oh i dont know what to do and im worried about whats gonna happen" and just make the best read we can make. ladd or visor is a wolf. they have a partner. we have 4 days of game to go through. dead villagers. close wagons. a dead wolf. lets find the answer we think fits, take our shot, and see if its right.
i will be voting last. i am strongarming this (channeling my inner maple i hope shes proud). I will let the clock tick down and not vote at all rather than vote next. we lose the game if i vote next because im a villager reading how im open wolfing and i refuse to be the shrug yeet tomorrow if we get it right today. but im here for the rest of the night to lurk and read and make the right decision when its time. i dont care who lissa or ender vote i just want them to vote differently. fingers crossed
I will make some quick bullet points, mostly to avoid the "last to talk is right" effect but its mostky stuff i already said in a more concise format:
- i look good from jan. Visor does not, he never tried to really kill jan this game.
- visor eod2 is wolfy. He basically ignorrs jan, only 2 nake d votes and focus instead on attacking other villas (waza)
- someone has to pay for the waza mislunch, its by far the worst lunch of the game. Iirc eod2 ended in 3/2/2 wagons w/v/lissa (v), i am the only player alive who was on the wolf
- if u read d3 you can clearly see who is playing like a wolf just trying to go for the easy solution and was focused on just getting maple out (visor pushing maple and me, i was afk at the time) and who is a villager that is trying to solve the game and knows maple lunch didnt matter (me going for visor and lookjng at sunbae)
- all dead villas (vanta,cape,waza,rask) thought i was a villager and that visor was wolfy afair
I d prefer if ender votes next (but obv i cant force anybody)
Then you and lissa can do what you want, i dont really care on the order
I hope we can get this done in like the next 5 hours or so without waiting until deadline cause when lylos get too late into the clock they tend to end bad ime
But again i cant force anyone
ender i think its more a matter of other people posting REALLY villagery here, its a hard game
I would strongly prefer ender votes next, I really do not think I should EVER be voting first here. seems giga suboptimal lol
I'm hereish, conserving posts, gonna reread some more shit soon.
You're not wrong sunbae, ultimately this game is like... Actually hard and it's a chill game and I'm not worried about getting shit on for being wrong or anything, I know nobody in this game is going to do that. The internal pressure I place on myself to be right is still kinda there tho lol
I'll put down some stance stuff in a bit here
I will make some quick bullet points, mostly to avoid the "last to talk is right" effect but its mostky stuff i already said in a more concise format:
- i look good from jan. Visor does not, he never tried to really kill jan this game.
- visor eod2 is wolfy. He basically ignorrs jan, only 2 nake d votes and focus instead on attacking other villas (waza)
- someone has to pay for the waza mislunch, its by far the worst lunch of the game. Iirc eod2 ended in 3/2/2 wagons w/v/lissa (v), i am the only player alive who was on the wolf
- if u read d3 you can clearly see who is playing like a wolf just trying to go for the easy solution and was focused on just getting maple out (visor pushing maple and me, i was afk at the time) and who is a villager that is trying to solve the game and knows maple lunch didnt matter (me going for visor and lookjng at sunbae)
- all dead villas (vanta,cape,waza,rask) thought i was a villager and that visor was wolfy afair
frankly, my counterpoint would be that it makes plenty of sense to bus jan at some point here lol
sure visors eod was level 0 wolfy, but i really felt like we were on the same wavelength at it and i think your descriptions of elements of it were pretty uncharitable (i'm aware that if you're a villager you know he's a wolf, etc. but even before that) and sorta overlooking elements
i hate that you put it as "someone has to pay" cause no, i'm trying to kill the wolves, that way of phrasing that is not villagery
i still need to reread d3 but maple didnt NEED to be focused on being gotten out, lol, cmon
53
.
frankly, my counterpoint would be that it makes plenty of sense to bus jan at some point here lol
sure visors eod was level 0 wolfy, but i really felt like we were on the same wavelength at it and i think your descriptions of elements of it were pretty uncharitable (i'm aware that if you're a villager you know he's a wolf, etc. but even before that) and sorta overlooking elements
i hate that you put it as "someone has to pay" cause no, i'm trying to kill the wolves, that way of phrasing that is not villagery
i still need to reread d3 but maple didnt NEED to be focused on being gotten out, lol, cmon
53
1) i started bussing him from d1 even when sunbae v read there gave me every excuse not to. You can see in my posts the conflict between thinking sunbae is villagery and sheeping him on jan and thinking jan is wolfy. I posted 9 times the day i bussed him, thats not how u buss
2) visor eod was wolfy, i pointed out exactly why d3 before he was a confirmed wolf to me. What am i overlooking? The fact you mindmelded with him quite frankly doesnt matter shrug.jpg waza posting wasnt wolfy
3) the wording was obviously a joke, but the concept is that in close v/w wagons..you are supposed to look at who voted the villager cause good chance a wolf is there
4) wrt maple what i mean is that visor was so incredibly close minded on me/maple, if u have seen visor village before you should know his focus wouldnt be on maple there. He REALLY should have been looking at sunbae more, regardless of sunbae alignment.
Compare it with how i didnt really care about maple and looked at sunbae/visor hard, tahts what visor what a villager reactiin would be
Below are all mentions of jan from visor afaict
Jan
what do you make of vanta dying overnight - specifically because they were wolfreading you yesterday?
Rask correctly called this out saying visor did the same thing to zelda in some other game
It's the short version anyway - basically they aren't gonna do anything unless they are in danger, it's their slanking wolf type of game imo
Re Jan: have been disappointed with him today, d1 was fine, had the joie de vivre I am looking for from v Jan but today is more doiur
And not any counter culture reads (like against thread position) that he is worried about
Like if he was wolf reading Ladd or sunbae or rask but not feeling like he should push there or something
Idk what to make of enders posts towards me rn I will need to read them when I get home
His read on jan (idt there is anything wolfy or villagery about this, just posting for completion sake)
i wish jan had stronger reads
or like a pet read or something that he kept going back to
I think if visor was a villager he would have said that jan not having such a pet read was wolfy vs "wishing"
vote: jan
Entschuldigang
Finally votes jan making it 4/2 but he is not pushing for it and essentially ignored lissa case on him
i mean it is straight up just downplaying all the work sunbae has done because it isn't at eod
and because sunbae is wolfreading waza
super self focused
waza/jan w/w :curtain:
Tries to convince u to vote waza by linking him to your strong wolfread
lissa has more posts than me wtf lol
vote: jan
This vote puts it 3/3 jan/lissa BUT 4 mjns after jan claims so the claim was def planned already by the point this vite happened (and he switxhes to waza)
He is not treating jan like an unknown player he has to solve and nor as a villager he has to mislunch
He is treating him as another wolf that he wants to distance from but not buss
If we don't kill Jan and I don't really want to kill lissa
I will accept maple ender or waza
I missed this post but i already talked about why its wolfy
(42 i think?)
i think the core of this game is going to come down to a few things, but i think a major point is how d3 played out
d3 in hindsight was a shit show, mostly my fault for tunneling maple into oblivion to be fair, but from the way d3 played out i think it should be clear to see that i cared about getting to the right answer, at any cost. maple was a puzzle piece that fit perfectly in my mind (perhaps too perfectly), given jan's activity levels, maple's lack of posting/solving, i felt like that HAD to be the answer, it just felt right in the way that good wolfreads should do, where you have ticked all the boxes and newcomb gives you a prize and a pat on the back. i didn't let others take the fall for maple, i took maple down singlehandedly with my tunnel, which is not exactly a great argument to peddle in f5 lol, but its the truth and i did it because i believed wholeheartedly that they were going to flip wolf. on the other hand ladd was not interested in taking that poisoned chalice and instead associated me a lot with maple to put me in a negative light to give him that room to work with going into f5. i was loud, brash and confident that i had that good read and that i was going to be vindicated. at the end of the day villagers and wolves can do anything for any reason but i think my actions show what a villager does when they have a read they believe in like i did, compared to wolves, who know the answers, and have to play around and plan for the future in a way that i think d3 demonstrates.
Sorry its hard to snip on phone but the bolded from visor is what i am talking about wrt d3
He had no businness wolfreading maple so hard for lack of solvin/posting, he knows maple well enuf
43
I mean even if you compare our cases on each other - i could write a poem about why visor is a wolf
The cases for me being a wolf that i have seen so far are:
- being uncharitable towards visor on d3 (i mean i was right and i dont think i was uncharitablr at all but ymmv)
- wishy washy read on ender d1 (sure i already claimed guilty of this one but d1 was incredibly low activity and my reads flipped easily as a conseguence)
I dunno if i missed anything else but idts
44
spending a post to announce i am here, that i have yet to see anyone put forth a strong stance on a team that does not involve me, and that i would like to see it at some point plz n thx. time to take the stands and make the pick, nobody is going to hate on anyone for being wrong this game because nobody has been right about anything relevant this game. we will all tell ourselves that we could have done better when its over and laugh about some of the stuff (i personally think my ender/lissa team is funny in hindsight i had my charlie kelley pepe silvia corkboard going) and also because it is a chill org game with friends. let us not stress ourselves out about dvc and worrying its like old toxic ones of the past (of which i still profusely apologize for being mad on the voxx one lissa, that was a me problem and not a you problem).
I already said the team is decently likely to be ender/visor friendo
I am probably like 70% ender/visor, 29% you/visor, 1% lissa/visor
I am cool with you bein the hammer if it happens organically but quite frankly i see no difference between that and just picking in f3 if we get there
45
1) i started bussing him from d1 even when sunbae v read there gave me every excuse not to. You can see in my posts the conflict between thinking sunbae is villagery and sheeping him on jan and thinking jan is wolfy. I posted 9 times the day i bussed him, thats not how u buss
2) visor eod was wolfy, i pointed out exactly why d3 before he was a confirmed wolf to me. What am i overlooking? The fact you mindmelded with him quite frankly doesnt matter shrug.jpg waza posting wasnt wolfy
3) the wording was obviously a joke, but the concept is that in close v/w wagons..you are supposed to look at who voted the villager cause good chance a wolf is there
4) wrt maple what i mean is that visor was so incredibly close minded on me/maple, if u have seen visor village before you should know his focus wouldnt be on maple there. He REALLY should have been looking at sunbae more, regardless of sunbae alignment.
Compare it with how i didnt really care about maple and looked at sunbae/visor hard, tahts what visor what a villager reactiin would be
1 yeah it /is/ weird I agree. you basically brought him into my attention too
2 mainly referring to the "if we aren't killing jan" thing
3 well yes, the wording definitely made me feel squirmy though
4 yes I've been playing ww with visor for, like, ten years on and off, but I'm not necessarily convinced that is true
Below are all mentions of jan from visor afaict
Rask correctly called this out saying visor did the same thing to zelda in some other game
His read on jan (idt there is anything wolfy or villagery about this, just posting for completion sake)
I think if visor was a villager he would have said that jan not having such a pet read was wolfy vs "wishing"
Finally votes jan making it 4/2 but he is not pushing for it and essentially ignored lissa case on him
Tries to convince u to vote waza by linking him to your strong wolfread
This vote puts it 3/3 jan/lissa BUT 4 mjns after jan claims so the claim was def planned already by the point this vite happened (and he switxhes to waza)
He is not treating jan like an unknown player he has to solve and nor as a villager he has to mislunch
He is treating him as another wolf that he wants to distance from but not buss
he actually did acknowledge / engage a bit with my push there at at least one point but sure, not a ton.
I see what you're saying, but I'm not convinced there's not a villager mindset behind some of these things? I can easily see it. He thought a lot of similar things to me at that eod, obviously it's possible that I was just deeply pocketed by it, but you're kinda like. You're trying to convince me that a villager can never think or do things that in my perception I literally also thought and did at least pretty similar things to. Whether he was trying to or not he didn't convince me to vote waza, I decided it was mech correct to not kill jan and in the lack of having a direction latched onto a few posts waza made at that eod I thought were pretty wolfy in the moment.
Sorry its hard to snip on phone but the bolded from visor is what i am talking about wrt d3
He had no businness wolfreading maple so hard for lack of solvin/posting, he knows maple well enuf
43
I feel like most of the game perceived that as wolfy for maple though lol. Some way or another. Who generally should have a comparable take.
I mean even if you compare our cases on each other - i could write a poem about why visor is a wolf
The cases for me being a wolf that i have seen so far are:
- being uncharitable towards visor on d3 (i mean i was right and i dont think i was uncharitablr at all but ymmv)
- wishy washy read on ender d1 (sure i already claimed guilty of this one but d1 was incredibly low activity and my reads flipped easily as a conseguence)
I dunno if i missed anything else but idts
44
I mean the case fmpov more comes down to which one of you is more villagery.
I understand that if you are a villager you see visor as having been ~outed even before it was confirmed by you voting him. But he's posted /extremely/ villagery in my eyes. There is also a lot of things that would be very weird about you being a wolf, indeed.
54
im like hearing and thinking about everything you are saying but like. mrg
im having a deja vu moment to beck hard misreading where i was at in the voxx f3
its not really the same at all but like
mmh
how do i explain this, it does make me think you're just the villager here though. feel like i'm almost viewing the game from outside for a moment. the whole way you've been talking about visor for the past couple days, something just sorta clicked
i wish ender would vote. me voting first is like wildly suboptimal lmao.
55
Alrighty, i have said my piece
I know its hard to get out of being pocketed (god knows sunbae will pocket me so hard in f3 if he is a wolf) but all i can tell u is to actually try to put the "visor is villagery" in tangible posts he has made and see if it holds up
There is way more tangible stuff for visor wolf than for me wolf (there is none :curtain:)
Ill only add wrt maple that visor wolfread them hard from d1. On d3 thinking they are a wolf by PoE is fine but if you single out visor's read on maple from start of gamr to maple lunch u will see how weirdly and wolfily confident it was from the start
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 4 - Votes from post 942 through 1170
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
1Visorladd (46 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867599&viewfull=1#post2053867599))
1laddVisor (41 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867662&viewfull=1#post2053867662))
3Not VotingEnderWiggin (29), Lissa (55), Sunbae (53)
Votes are locked.
54. lissa you here? im ready to vote and ill go next (wanna know before i sleep)
putting my response to you at the top wrote it after rest etc
uhh im here, give me a few minutes and I guess I'll vote, won't be too long
-----
Okay imma ride with u still even if the NK is weird lmao
Kinda agree with this sentiment cos at first I thought visors reaction to rask today was outting but then after the wall I can possibly see a v/v angle, even if I’m not really sold on visor being town yet
mmm
ender/visor is maybe a LITTLE weird but big meh
ender voting would have been nice so I could rule out. like. world stuff
but I guess that's not happening in a reasonable timeframe. I will probably vote soonish, because someone has to fucking do it and at a point the benefit of me not voting first gets outweighed by the downside of not having any more fucking votes down as it nears eod.
also ender coming in to make the string of posts he made today that actually has literally zero takes on the game or who he thinks the wolves are or like. anything. is. a thing
not even meaning a lack of like conclusions, a lack of any read at all
especially since, like, the crossvote existing is more information for him than it is for me if he's a villa. unless he wants to tinfoil me, it tells him that either sunbae is a wolf or ladd/visor did some serious theater. what I'd give to have someone else but me be the clear and have that info lol
Also I keep thinking about the fact that his reads felt like he started with a clean slate today instead of natural progression. I mean looking at his iso again, he did, outright, say he was doing this, in fairness. but it's not /really/ how it generally works for villagers imo in practice
though there is some layers of like, him finding me not villagery on d1 again when iirc that was his take at the time even though he cleared me later etc, lingering.
but some other stuff like the bringing up ladd/visor w/w idea without at all acknowledging the last couple days is like...
to circle back to team things,
ender/ladd is just kinda. idk why don't you just fucking wait for sunbae to vote there lol you prob win today (also true for the ender/visor world lmao)
sunbae/visor is... no idea offhand
sunbae/ladd is not /impossible/ but somewhat weird at a fair number of points
which, well, writing all those out does also point towards visor
to circle back to ender, the basically forgetting why i should be cleared is also a bit weird tbh still
but like yeah sure he's not done rereading d3 neither am i but the ladd/visor stuff was MEMORABLE lol
his eod2 was rough. and i definitely do still feel like the item thing makes more sense if he is a wolf tbh
why does this site always break right when i have the most mental clarity about the game and to play the game lmao
56
Lissa: heres the new million dollar question:
If Ladd is a villager who is right about Cape, who is right about Rask, who is right about Waza, who is right about Jan
Why is he alive on day 4 and Vanta into Cape are dead.
Lissa: heres the new million dollar question:
If Ladd is a villager who is right about Cape, who is right about Rask, who is right about Waza, who is right about Jan
Why is he alive on day 4 and Vanta into Cape are dead.
Uh cause vanta was right about jan, cape was villaread and i was mislunchable especially after posting 9 times d2
I was in everyone's PoE d3
Only night i could have died was n1 really
Ngl thats a super weird question and now i suddenly have a bad feeling
48
56. not a weird question at all imo. doesnt mean i think youre the wolf it means its something i want to see lissas response to
theres also the matter of rask dying over me, that is still a thing
It's the short version anyway - basically they aren't gonna do anything unless they are in danger, it's their slanking wolf type of game imo
Re Jan: have been disappointed with him today, d1 was fine, had the joie de vivre I am looking for from v Jan but today is more doiur
And not any counter culture reads (like against thread position) that he is worried about
Like if he was wolf reading Ladd or sunbae or rask but not feeling like he should push there or something
Idk what to make of enders posts towards me rn I will need to read them when I get home
visor probably /should/ know that that's also in maple's village range indeed lol
Ladd is in the weird position where I think he could be a wolf, but there is no point in pushing him today, when he is mostly gone for this phase.
The n1 kill makes me think Ladd will be alive for a while, and we can talk about him when he is back.
I agree with waza that sunbae might be someone to look at if you are a villager (or rather if rask/you is v/v).
I don't have a strong read on you, but I rarely read you these days. You either find a wolf and die at night or don't find a wolf and die during the day.
I don't think this game has a lot of "counter culture" simply because most people could still be wolves and reads are fairly soft.
this was such a strange post. idk how to read it tho
Lissa: heres the new million dollar question:
If Ladd is a villager who is right about Cape, who is right about Rask, who is right about Waza, who is right about Jan
Why is he alive on day 4 and Vanta into Cape are dead.
i mean you can call it a bit weird ig sure, but he was openly on vacation and like 9 posting d2 lol
not like him being right saved waza
vanta was pretty focused on jan
ladd was more mislimable than cape
you asking this question kinda unsettles me ngl it makes me feel like you're visor's partner seeing me start to get to the right answer and trying to make me hesitate
its obv not like a completely unreasonable question if you're a villa but the timing is like... holyyyy
57
56. not a weird question at all imo. doesnt mean i think youre the wolf it means its something i want to see lissas response to
Well fmpov it seems like you are instilling in lissa the doubt i am a wolf just when they were right
But i guess we will see
theres also the matter of rask dying over me, that is still a thing
visor probably /should/ know that that's also in maple's village range indeed lol
this was such a strange post. idk how to read it tho
i mean you can call it a bit weird ig sure, but he was openly on vacation and like 9 posting d2 lol
not like him being right saved waza
vanta was pretty focused on jan
ladd was more mislimable than cape
you asking this question kinda unsettles me ngl it makes me feel like you're visor's partner seeing me start to get to the right answer and trying to make me hesitate
its obv not like a completely unreasonable question if you're a villa but the timing is like... holyyyy
57
Yea exactly lol
57. the counter for "wow this post/line youre taking makes sense if youre a villager but AHHHHH NOW IM CONCERNED" has reached 4 now? grrr lol
So last post before either saying "acknowleged" to your vote or voting myself:
The main corner case I am trying to solve here is ensuring the team is not you and ladd. The nightkills would track from this (rask over both of you, vanta over ladd, cape calling you a wolf, your insistence that visor is a villager all game) and the way ladd is unrelentingly villa reading you for the last two days would track too. (1% wolf read today). So I wanted to see if that was a question you had been considering because I think with all of your talkk of the voxx game being in your head today then villager you was already thinking about it given that was the big thing from that game. I only bring it up because its been talked about (and i get it again, apologies for my outburst last time it was wrong of me) but it struck me as really odd that you never even presented it in the thread. Was concerned, curious, etc.
It does sound like you had a pretty solid response lined up. If you said some form of "oh huh thats interesting idk" and started to backpedal again I was going to drudge siren pretty hard. With the way you answered and the way both ladd and visor have you as a villager though I think I'm good? After reading the jan case and jans vote on you on top of it.
Apologies for spooking you and I hope that made sense now that its been explained.
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 4 - Votes from post 942 through 1181
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
1Visorladd (50 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867599&viewfull=1#post2053867599))
1laddVisor (41 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867662&viewfull=1#post2053867662))
3Not VotingEnderWiggin (29), Lissa (57), Sunbae (57)
Votes are locked.
Modnote I'm afk for a few hours-ish, if hammer occurs please stop posting (unless it's gg)
EnderWiggin
08-21-2025, 08:27
i was wondering about this and how it relates to the chance of them being paired but visor being obsessed with people reacting to ender d1 honestly just seems like an exaggeration
There was like 5 pages in a row where Visor asked a new person their take on me. (50ppp if it matters)
It felt like on catchup I was just opening a new page to Visor asking the same question on repeat.
With ender coming in too i think a mexican standoff gif would fit well here but sadly i am on phone
We are just missing visor
EnderWiggin
08-21-2025, 08:33
With ender coming in too i think a mexican standoff gif would fit well here but sadly i am on phone
We are just missing visor
I honestly am sorry i'm so late I was handed a work project and was not expecting to lose all afternoon to it lol.
ladd living n1 over someone like vanta also makes additional sense if... sunbae/visor are wolves and just killing ladd etc would likely make especially sunbae stick out lol
Lissa do u really think visor sunbae and ladd can be pure and the wolves decide to n1 the slot visor called the biggest ml bait in the lobby?
idk why i didnt say anything about how wolfy that claim timing was lol
feels a bit silly to say considering but it really weirds me out that visor didnt say something along those lines actually hm
ngl the "or what" thing is ????
57. the counter for "wow this post/line youre taking makes sense if youre a villager but AHHHHH NOW IM CONCERNED" has reached 4 now? grrr lol
So last post before either saying "acknowleged" to your vote or voting myself:
The main corner case I am trying to solve here is ensuring the team is not you and ladd. The nightkills would track from this (rask over both of you, vanta over ladd, cape calling you a wolf, your insistence that visor is a villager all game) and the way ladd is unrelentingly villa reading you for the last two days would track too. (1% wolf read today). So I wanted to see if that was a question you had been considering because I think with all of your talkk of the voxx game being in your head today then villager you was already thinking about it given that was the big thing from that game. I only bring it up because its been talked about (and i get it again, apologies for my outburst last time it was wrong of me) but it struck me as really odd that you never even presented it in the thread. Was concerned, curious, etc.
It does sound like you had a pretty solid response lined up. If you said some form of "oh huh thats interesting idk" and started to backpedal again I was going to drudge siren pretty hard. With the way you answered and the way both ladd and visor have you as a villager though I think I'm good? After reading the jan case and jans vote on you on top of it.
Apologies for spooking you and I hope that made sense now that its been explained.
yeah i get it, i'm sure it's frustrating if you're a villager seeing me say that over and over lol
it makes sense from that line and it makes me feel better about it
i honestly dont even think i'd have to vote visor for him to go over if it was me/ladd here lol
also i prob just let you vote or something in that world
(acknowledged and accepted re the outburst at the time etc)
anyway i don't know how much i ever openly talked about this given i really never publicly postgamed anywhere idt but that was not, in fact, actually a thing i took away from that game lol
it actually did make sense for voxx to be alive in that f3 given the specific nuances of how that game played out, and i think that was still true even tho thinking it wasn't would have resulted in the right /conclusion/. as strange as it is to say i actually do think i process wise played that f3 pretty reasonably. there's a lot of layers that could be dug into to talk further on that but i need to finish reading d3 it's not the time lmao
i also do think the context of this game is diff in general in a number of ways
anyway
the more i read d3 the more strongly i feel that ladd should just be a villa and visor starts to fit more as a wolf
i had a moment at one stretch of fearing the sunbae/ladd world but there's a lot of weird stuff about that and also it is hard to imagine sunbae making that post/question he just did a bit ago here there in that world lol like why
the shape of the game also def kinda just fits/feels like ladd villa finding wolf visor so to speak
ladd just seems like the villager here
its def a bit weird how visor chose to play around jan when jan was gonna come in and claim the thing anyway but that just kinda is levels i think
ender, who do you think the wolves are? you have a lot of information fypov, especially assuming you just accept me as a villager (which you should)
58, last post before i vote, was gonna just vote in this post until ender got here
ok, its time gl us
vote: visor
if its wrong then sorry i assure you i tried and its a me thing not a you thing
59 whew
ladd im just gonna snap ender tomorrow if you are confirmed lissa villa assuming thats the f3 yeah?
59 whew
ladd im just gonna snap ender tomorrow if you are confirmed lissa villa assuming thats the f3 yeah?
Yea, i am not getting there on lissa if they are a wolf
But i really really dont think they are
EnderWiggin
08-21-2025, 09:01
I hade a post I thought saved but my computer restarted for an update while I was at work so now I'm just frustrated.
Long/short summary of what I remember is that who Sunbae is paired with possibly is more important than who is wolfier to me I think. I'm still nursing this idea about the w/w stuff I poked at for Ladd/Visor (I think Ladd being confident that him/visor couldn't have faked D3 is just kinda dumb. If they were sure Maple was going over setting up for F5 seems pretty natural of a follow on and I'm being a bit petty about being told I would be wolf if I really thought that.) but in the case that it's a w/v cross Sunbae is 99% the wolf for me. If it's Lissa I'm losing to Lissa every time I think.
So I had the thought earlier:
Who is most likely to be paired with Sunbae?
I had a bunch of quotes I poked through but there's a lot more interaction with Visor than Ladd today. (And there's a really sus post Sunbae makes about not being paired with Ladd that I did not follow at the time.)
Argument that Ladd/Me world does not exist: A total lack of team cohesiveness. If Ladd is a wolf then he is clearly playing a pro villa game where he is clearing villagers under concern while pushing Jan from the get go. However neither Jan nor I are playing in a similar way. If I'm a wolf I am being massively pro-wolf where I push Waza then Rask then Maple. Jan was not playing pro village in that instance either. Yet in this case Ladd would not have anything negative towards me when people have found me wolfy from the get go? That the game plan would be for Ladd to be pro-villa while I'm pro-wolf but never have anything in the first two days for Ladd to point to about me?
I don't think any of that holds water.
Wolves playing in disparate manners to muddle info and keep players guessing is like... commonplace? I rarely am in a team where all the wolves are pushing the same agenda, especially in a lobby this good.
But I do actually agree Ladd's Jan interactions are straight townier than Visor's. I can concoct bussing scenarios for Jan/Ladd, but it feels much more like I have to consciously say "that could have been wolf theatre/bussing" than with Visor/Jan. (And while I know Ladd is not at all shy of bussing a partner D1/D2, see Ender/Ladd when we were w/w together a while ago, usually I feel like there's more intent behind it.)
Re: Sunbae voice I just don't think he's had any post that properly reminds me of like this one from last game (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155087-Gemma-s-Favorite-Music-Mafia?p=2053863925&viewfull=1#post2053863925). Which is also a summary of their position and they have done that this game but idk what to say other than it vibes different.
Looking back at Visor/Sunbae interactions today vs Ladd/Sunbae interactions, however, I think the biggest and starkest difference I'm leaning more on is that Visor/Sunbae most often talk about other pairs (P#972 region for example) where Ladd/Sunbae have talked several times about Ladd's read on Sunbae and vice-versa (something that Visor/Sunbae don't really do).
EnderWiggin
08-21-2025, 09:03
ok, its time gl us
vote: visor
if its wrong then sorry i assure you i tried and its a me thing not a you thing
Oh. Hm. Acknowledged.
60.
Ok. Waza and Cape felt that way about lissa too when I reread (think cape called her the most villagery person in the thread). My work here is done/cards on the table now. If we win cool if not well damn got us. barring some weird world where you and i both live and i need to consider you/visor worlds. fwiw vanta saying they could swap from jan to visor plus those two plus rask saying he thought yo uwere villa plus my own read from yesterday was how I got to this conclusion.
I also want to point out that my extensive ender/lissa focus was because i found both you and visor villagery all day yesterday (before for visor, and you on d1) and was trying to figure out how the heck that could still be right. tried to concoct a scenario that made sense where jan/lissa/ender worked and it kept having holes when i poste about it.
I also also would like to point to my posting yesterday where I started at maple/ladd and then froze on rereading and shifted to ladd being the most villagery person in the thread and have you/lissa reread it along with my posts today where i was trying so hard to find ways to clear myself because i didnt think just voting right was enough and view all that together and hopefully yall can decide that im villa too.
if this is it for me, fun game. if not, see ya tomorrow. last post over and out
EnderWiggin
08-21-2025, 09:39
Vote: Visor
I hope I am not being dumb.
didistetter
08-21-2025, 09:43
Visor has been hammered.
please stop posting!!! gemma will post flip when she's back
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 4 - Votes from post 942 through 1195
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3VisorEnderWiggin (34 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867711&viewfull=1#post2053867711)), Sunbae (60 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867704&viewfull=1#post2053867704)), ladd (53 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867599&viewfull=1#post2053867599))
1laddVisor (41 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867662&viewfull=1#post2053867662))
1Not VotingLissa (58)
Visor dies.
Visor was:
Mafia Vanilla
You are Mafia. You have no abilities. You win when your team reaches parity with Town and no other threats to your team remain.
At the time of their death, Visor had the following items:
Poisonous Bomb
You reflexively poison anyone who kills you, unless they have an Antidote.
Night 4 now, submit actions 1 hour before deadline.
Ladd dies. They were:
Town Vanilla
You are Town. You have no abilities. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.
Day 5 now.
EnderWiggin
08-22-2025, 14:02
Wait what.
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 5 - Votes from post 1197 through 1199
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3Not VotingEnderWiggin (1), Lissa (0), Sunbae (0)
EnderWiggin
08-22-2025, 14:05
I have this deep dark feeling that I am once again going to be the game-losing misflip for town. Tbh I thought that yesterday but I was wrong so here's hoping I'm wrong again.
But I'm expecting to see a Ladd alive and Lissa flip in the morning. I did deny Lissa the hammer intentionally to hopefully reduce that chance but after I did that I kinda honestly thought it was a futile move.
Sunbae isn't going to want Lissa over Ladd. So hi Ladd. Given our history I don't know how I'm going to win this game for town but I'm going to give it a fair shake. (Unless you're wolf in which case I called it but I still lose lol)
So yes, after Sunbae's vote I hemmed and hawed for a while because honestly I was like "Does Sunbae really pre-empt that on a partner?"
But Lissa had just said that she thought Visor was the wolfier. And I'd just made a comment or two about Visor being the wolfier. (I was going to vote Visor tbh after I re-wrote my wall but you'd have to trust my word for it so nyeh.) so I think Sunbae was honestly just taking the thunder away from other people and setting down the first vote.
And then I was like "If Lissa gets the hammer she's hammering Visor. And if she's right then she gets killed in the night 100%." So I took that away and hammered Visor myself.
So I'm going to jump back to Sunbae. I have tossed this over in my head and it was what settled the previous night as the most confident thing I had.
Sunbae, why does he randomly go after me when I'm unassailable? When I've just shot one wolf and no one is challenging my position? Because, as wolf, he's not going to garner sus then either. Maple is on the block and nothing is saving him.
Sunbae can set up for the next phase of the game, trying to undermine me.
Which also harks back to "Why did Jan give me the gun."
Because, as I said on that day, it honestly makes so little sense in the grand scheme of things. Because wolves potentially lose an ml.
But I think I kind of have an answer to that. They didn't know who had the Last Parting gift. And if, say, Maple or Lissa (Who were getting a lot of sus prior to Jan's flip) had it then we could clear POE with it still.
And given my vote on Lissa maybe I was swayable. If they can get me onside with Jan then they've pretty much won the game since I was one of the most vocal sussers of Jan (In my impression at least.)
Risk with not much downside since Maple is tied heavily enough to Jan that they can easily chain that together.
So I've done the rereading and things I think are indicative of wolf!Sunbae that I really want to bring to your attention:
1. Jan townread on D1 (Very strong) only to reverse it when he realised that Jan was tanking and very quickly heading towards being very sussed.
2. Visor literally spent a lot of D1 trying to bait someone into leading the wolfread charge on me.
3. Sunbae desperately played for the hammer in the hopes it would be given because they just win then.
4.
I find you and Ladd villagery on posting still which is why Im struggling this game. Via posting I think you two are the villageriest two while mechanically/dealing with the deal wolf I think ender (killed)/lissa (push) are and I'm hung up in my "my vibes vs mechanics" torn viewpoints. I'm also baffled by how locked in both of you are on each other - you on him more given i think if you read his posts he's just been massively pro villa this game and you dont seem to have really considered that - but yeah. Part of me thinks both of you would have an easier time seeing the other as villagery as villagers so i also have a SMALL FEAR that its both of you.
I feel like this is easily the wolfiest post in the thread regarding the F5. Sunbae is intentionally finding reasons to fence sit and talks about "assuming Visor/Ladd as v" right after saying Visor/Ladd should cross.
And as I said, Visor and Sunbae spent more time talking about reading *other* people. Also I find it hilarious that they spent a lot of in-thread time talking about a horse game.
5. You remember how you said that "If you think Visor/You are w/w after D3 you're a wolf"?
Could I get your thoughts in as much detail as possible on a potential Visor/Ladd world? Earlier I called it the most logical one if I just ignore posting (ender shoots jan, you heavily case jan, visor and ladd are just good posting woofs). And if you don't want to be convincing me because you think I'm a wolf pretend you're convincing Ender of it!
I can't help but notice that Sunbae is intentionally trying to field it.
this was moments before he wilded a Lissa/Me world because it would push two town into the wolf sphere and you/Visor were nettling. He literally flung whatever was at the wall in hopes if finding a way forwards. It never felt like Sunbae was trying to solve the game in an organic manner.
---
I could diatribe more but got a headache so I'll continue once day starts and I can post instead of re-writing things in a notepad lol.
Lissa
Still relevant info but enjoy my incredibly wolfy appeal to the night kill :curtain:
EnderWiggin
08-22-2025, 14:18
2. Vanta's post about it looking like Visor is trying to chain something together and he doesn't like it is villagery for the exact same reasons I find Waza's posts wolfy. I look at it and say "wow good thought process Vanta, you're really thinking intricately about the game so you must be a villager". Werewolf is a stupid game and I am able to hold these two thoughts simultaneously.
Also wanted to point out how Vanta townread for sussing Visor for trying to chain things but never comments a read on Visor until:
think my current start for suspects is in <waza, lissa, visor, cape> but not lissa/cape nor visor/cape so my interest there is significantly less than the previous 3
probably a villager
jan
ender
cape
lean villager
rask
ladd
woofing?
maple
visor
lissa
waza
But then D2 comes to Visor's side against Raskol's attack at which point they basically rep a townread on Visor.
EnderWiggin
08-22-2025, 14:19
my heart wants to like sunbae (my brain is staying strong on that one for now).
Raskolnikov
EnderWiggin
Cape90
Sunbae
waza
ladd
Visor
Maple
Lissa
This is my order right now.
Maple is not a wolf by play and just down there because everyone above has done things to be towny.
Rask is toptier purely on vibes.
Enders d1 intro rarely comes from a wolf and I liked his d2 start as well.
Jan also repped a vague townread on Sunbae the entire time while he buttered me up hard with strong statements (And I am gonna call that unpairing fuck you.)
visor/sunbae w/w
I wanted to add this btw because I stumbled over it on reread and found it hilarious.
EnderWiggin
08-22-2025, 14:21
Read thread.
1 wolf in Ladd/Ender
1 wolf in Maple/Rask
1 wolf in Waza/Lissa/Jan
I have Visor/Cape as my villagers.
I currently lean the wolf team being Ladd/Rask/Waza but that's more just a shot in the dark. I feel pretty great about the wolf groupings though.
Also I thought this "Groupings" were weird when it was first posted but I reckon it feels even worse in a retrospective
EnderWiggin
08-22-2025, 14:25
Ladd i have villa, just out of his D1 solving. The read is kinda idle rn considering their irl.
Now I smh didnt like his first page posts but I am not sure if its ai or not and I confess I didnt look back at other games but mostly I dont rrcall feeling this way reading ladds early posts. Also I was a bit disappointed by his final logic vote d1 (i do think its better to vote people with content, blame me).
Ender i do not have more to add I guess. Kinda of an ego read but he has the correct one on me when I felt there was so momemtum early D2 to build up my wagon ridding people bad pushes... which brings me to Sunbae.
I am still digesting their wall but the part about me is not charitable and misrepresenting to an extent. I get the willingness to read and make AI conclusions out of player moves, but the way they paint what I did around visor is not right. Like I didnt switch anything, i just miss remembered who he was pushing early D1, yet the conclusions held, like to me his early case on Cape was meh (I labelled it as "lazy" itt) and I quite didnt get the follow up with Vanta ww with Cape (as I said, in lieu of the other possibilities). If you were paying attention yo what I was saying, its clear I didnt "switch" anything, just missremembered who was the first visors push. And its pretty clear itt since I adressed the first case live, the second case live then misstyped when I sum up the reasons for my vote late D1.
It doesnt make suunbae lock wolf, but still uncharitable, borderline sloppy. Which is weird considering the effort they seem to put in the game (look that wall lmao).
Finishing some stuff (cover for me eating "viennoiseries") then Ill finish up my ketchup
I also want to point out that if I was wolf I have 0 reason to kill Rask since I effectively have him pocketed, and the above would be really good to keep around given in a W!Ender world I'd be stacking on my towncred from the Jan shot to try and force through a vote. And winning in F5 is way easier than F3 for me anyway.
EnderWiggin
08-22-2025, 14:26
I was going to promise myself to check other worlds but I think if you're wolf Lissa then I'm pretty much going to struggle to get there and struggle to get Sunbae there so lol.
Vote: Sunbae
:duel:
(This is where Lissa hammers and I feel like an idiot.)
Ack etc.
Honestly not all that surprised I'm alive here. There's some deep lore with me and f3s ngl. And ladd was obv also pretty clear.
I have Thoughts, not really gonna get into them just yet.
EnderWiggin
08-22-2025, 14:38
I won't lie, despite the confidence I had in that vote I was still worried.
I'll probably be sleeping soon but thankfully the weekend is coming up next for me so I will actually not vanish for 75% of the day for work. (Though I'm probably going to be gone for the last 8-10 hours due to a commitment watching Beetlejuice, so I'm hoping to get all my posts/questions out of the way before then.)
vote: ender
All you need to do is read day 3 where I do a complete 180 on ladd unprompted. I start at maple/ladd, reread the thread, come out with ladd as the villageriest person in t he game, call rask the second villageryiest person in the game, then spend the next however long trying to find scenarios where all of those thoughts (visor v, ladd v, rask v) can co-exist.
Ignore the shit being said today where it's just people telling you what you want to hear.
Go read that section from start of day where I sit there and try to yell about how Jan giving a gun to a villager when its one chop away is nonsensical all the way to the end of my reread. Ask yourself if it's more likely that it's me reevaluating and coming to the correct conclusion as a villager or shifting from a winning position as a wolf to make things more difficult. Read visors response to me not believing the ender shot where he tries to convince me it makes sense. Then read yesterday as I sort through everything and come to the correct conclusion while also trying to position myself in a way to help today and sorting through things.
Essentially: Ignore stuff today because the answer is in the past.
- Eod 2 where Ender comes in calling after calling Jan a wolf that day and then votes you over him
- Sod 3 where I point out that it makes zero sense for wolf Jan to give a gun to villager Ender.
- Entirety of day 3 where you ask yourself who is trying to solve the game between the two of us
I trust in your ability to get it right. And if you are hesitant, Ladds parting words are that its 3x more likely to be ender than me and that i should snap ender. He cant be alive for ender wolf which is why hes dead.
i don't know how you go from saying enders posts are "I am ngl when i first read his posts i thought he seemed fine
But then i re read them and wow they are so wolfy lmao"
and then the second spurt is fine and really?
i don't really understand how you changed your mind here
at the risk of making another w/w read..... :curtain:
Also we talked about Visor linking villagers to wolves (jan/waza to you eod2) and heres him doing it to ladd/ender
alrighty i am caught up
rask/lissa i am never voting this game, you can hold me to this
sunbae - until d3 i dodnt see why he couldnt be a wolf but i think his posting today and the conclusion he has come to are both correct and villagery in processo so maybe i am a sucker but i think he is just a villager
ender - i dont see who he could be a wolf with. he is not with maple and not with visor (i think) so ya only viable is team is like sunbae/ender but that does not feel right to me + i dont think he would go for a gambit again against a similar PL+i think he has been reasonably villagery except eod2+jan piced the target during d2 and he had ender as top villa so ender as target makes sense to me
maple - prolly wolf by PoE. If not we are in trouble cause it's probably some super hard world like sunbae/visor
visor - i have explained why i think he is a wolf and why i think him/maple makes sense as a fit
i'll be back for EoD tho expect it will just end in a maple lunch
so why is it a problem that i had this read earlier than you lol????
wild
reading the last page i do think hell world sunbae/visor is unlikely. unless they are doing some elaborate good cop vs bad cop ploy i don't feel those pages with me/visor/sunbae in it would happen the same way if they were w/w?
i am pretty locked in on visor/maple, it just makes ~everything fit for me (just a bit spooked by jan v list lissa posted and jan voting maple/visor in quick succession on eod2 but i think it's reasonable he was in anti spew given he had already claimed)
if i am wrong sorry, c'est la vie
second most likely team is probably sunbae/maple, then sunbae/visor and then sunbae/ender
Dont listen to me. Listen to Ladd.
But if you want to see visor be a bit annoyed that hes not getting credit for villa reading me correctly thats in there too
Like Ladd has just been pro villa start to finish. defending cape, defending waza, not hiding behind my jan v read and starting to get there on him, voting jan as a double voter, votes jan again like idk its just all pretty villagery to me results wise
I think if I just take a deep breath it's like "games easy, just pew pew maple then ender when he doesnt die in the night or its 2 wolves and thats why the third is hard to find" but some very hard worlds exist and id really like to fade them
I guess my big hangup is how does Ender wind up with the ability to shoot Jan if Ender is a villager when Jan gets to choose the target and Ender has a started wolf read on Jan? You can just give it to another wolf and you're safe.
Not one answer I've come up with about on this topic makes sense to me. There's seemingly zero benefit to doing so. What? You give it to someone wolf reading you and then convince them to save you and then come in the next day and have them shield you? You're still dying the next day. And the downside is he shoots you.
And why wasn't it given to me in that case? I defended him! I'm snowable in that situation!
According to Knights' role, people aren't told they have a bomb so you can't even argue that Jan had a bomb and was expecting to blow up Ender who happened to have an antidote
the way i see it there are four major lines
a) you give it a wolf, you shoot to go deep
b) you give it to a wolf, you don't shoot, argue it either unpairs you, or hard defend or whatever
c) you give it to a villager, they don't shoot you, hooray
d) you give it to a villager, they shoot you, people think why would you ever give it to a villager, has to be a wolf going deep, they kill them
so the argument is either wolves thought they needed to send ender deep/ go for hail mary, or wolves figured that by giving to a villager even if they shoot you, theres a good chance that they get killed anyway
This is all on day 3 when the entire game is handshake.gif that its maple/ladd and the game is about to end. I say I'm going to do a reread and come out with this.
None of this is needed at all if its me/visor. This is good ole fashioned villaging
Also note: the key takeaway at this point from my constant Ender pushing after the claim is NOT whether having Jan give the gun to a villager or wolf makes more sense.
The key takeaway is despite me harping on it for two game days - four real life days - Visor at no point tries to go along with it. He argues against it at every turn. He doesn't try to get other peoples thoughts on it. He doesn't try to use it to clear me if we're w/w. He doesn't try to use it to get people onto Ender if we're w/w. He doesn't start hemming and hawing about Ender could be a wolf from it.
He constantly defends it. Handwaves it away. Ignores it when possible. He does not want to dig deep into it for an extended period whatsoever.
Don’t see myself voting rask or cape today
Probs not ladd unless he starts posting howlers
Everyone else I suppose is fair game
waza goat
Visor has really talked about wanting to read Ender but then like not reading ender like twice today, in the second post being like "Ender is tomorrow's problem"
cape GOAT
I'll leave for now with this:
It is ok to have bad reads. Especially in a game like this where the entire player list are sickos. I do not deny that my reads on day 1 and day 2 were bad. I was turned around on Jan. I was turned around on Visor. I was on the wrong side of visor/rask and I was on the wrong side of Waza. What is important is what happened as the game went on. I think I did a good job of:
- Reorienting myself on day 3. Once we had a wolf flip and a few information kills like Waza/Cape I started righting the ship. I reread the thread and came out with Ladd/Rask v heavily. Even calling them the most villagery people in the game which I feel was massively pro villa given the timing and context. Ladd was starting to sus Visor hard and we know Rask was going back and forth on that hard as well. It would be very easy to keep up with the "maple/ladd wolves" threadstate the game was in but instead I came up with a totally different conclusion that really struck against a pro-wolf gamestate.
- Being unrelenting about something I didn't view as on the up and up. When Ender claimed the Jan kill I went through it extensively because it did not make sense to me. At all. I constantly returned back to the fact that it made zero sense to me for Jan to ever give the gun to a villager when they were at one chop left. Note: I think at this point cape just had a bomb and killed carrying Jan then Ender claimed to try and salvage it knowing that Jan didn't visit anywhere, but that still makes him a wolf so the point holds. I would not shut up about it. I consistently brought it up. I would not just let it die and shrug it off because I knew it made no sense. HOWEVER the key part is that I still tried to solve around this. I viewed worlds that would exist if I were wrong anyways (like Ladd/Lissa yesterday!). This is because I was attempting to solve the game rather than just push a narrative.
- Holding strong to those convictions. I spent the rest of day 3 and a chunk of day 4 trying to figure out how the shared views I had of Ladd, Rask, and Visor being villa could work. It's clear I spent a ton of time trying to work through scenarios on how that could exist. Maple/Ender is what I ended up at (the post about it being easy and pew pewing Maple then Ender when he didnt die in the night) but I also heavily explored Lissa/Ender. I tried to put myself into the shoes of that world and explain what had to happen and why if so and by that I mean I tried really, really, really hard on day 4 early ("i think i solved it" post).
Essentially my recap points to one important fact: As the game went on I got more villagery. Not less. This was expressed by Ladd as well yesterday and day 3. As we got more information I got more villagery. As I realized things I was wrong about I got more villagery. That is the key to finding villagers deep in the game. Who got more villagery the longer it goes on. Its me.
I do want to reiterate that the answer is in the game and not today. I can recap til the cows come home - and its reasonable to do so - but nothing is going to shine the light more than reading through the game yourself and asking "who is trying to solve the game and who isnt"
alright
i need to reread shit again, really, but my current thoughts rereading yesterday and reflecting on things said there, things brought up today, and the rest of the game are basically this
sunbae very much appears to have been actually trying to solve the game yesterday, a lot of his lines of thought seem like he is solving from an uninformed pov (the in depth tinfoil on me for example), the emotional cadence so to speak of him thinking he has found things is villagery. frankly, that question ladd and i both freaked out at was probably actually villagery at that point - i don't imagine wolf!sunbae would actually have thought that was going to be meaningfully effective there, it was clear in my posts and my mindset and also like the reason he asked the question just feels real lmao. and me and ladd would be a crazy theory to make up on the spot there
i'm somewhat skeptical that: "who is sunbae paired with" and yet "ladd/visor can definitely be paired" were said in basically the same breath by ender. the mindset seems mismatched
it's a bit hard to really get a full picture of ender's worldview yday but his last content dense post before the vote felt like it was written from the conclusion / for the conclusion not the other way around, like they were working backwards from it (ik they did lose and have to rewrite it which could explain to some extent but still)
god i just got a hit of sleepiness. i stayed up too long the night/day i have to wake up really ""early" and usually get like max 5 hours of sleep and gave up and decided to just not. but i might need a nap
i think sunbae hard committing to ladd v was pretty villagery
bombs poison not kill outright btw. so the jan parting gift was definitely given to a person (probably cape to prevent bullshit
visors play around ender was pretty weird - when i think about it, he poked at ender a fair bit weirdly earliy and then sorta openly just tabled him for no reason. its notable to me in general that i don't remember him having really pushed ender, one of the thoeretically most ml able people itgh
as an aside, i feel a lot better In General about making a decision today after getting there yesterday. correctly managing to pivot out of that pretty deep pocket and hard flip my read and (well not technically voting there, but forcing the wolf to do so, effectively) was very satisfying, honestly. rereading the moment where it kinda clicked and i started really committing to the pivot is really cool. ladd goat
anyway, i'm maybe around (might doze off), though i certainly will be taking anything said today with a PRETTY large grain of salt cause yes, the answer is in the rest of the game.
EnderWiggin
08-23-2025, 03:22
Awake and honestly unsurprised. I'll do my best to help but ngl this is not the most unusual circumstance for me. =P
One day I'll work out how to be villagery without spam-posting every thought I have into thread.
EnderWiggin
08-23-2025, 03:30
Also I keep thinking about the fact that his reads felt like he started with a clean slate today instead of natural progression. I mean looking at his iso again, he did, outright, say he was doing this, in fairness. but it's not /really/ how it generally works for villagers imo in practice
That’s how villas are more likely to think rather than the way you have, and if you actually are town here and managed to correctly find me based on your reasoning then I will flat out say you are the most woke player that I have ever played with and I will refer to you as blade the woke from every game here onwards.
Link for the post (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36562-Cats-vs-Dogs-Mafia?p=6102444#post6102444)
bladescape was eliminated. They were: Vanilla Town
I just wanted to bring this up because I'll be honest I'm really fucking tired of being told how I operate isn't how "Villagers operate in practice".
(I will note that Happy has actually never referred to me by my rightful title since but I thought it'd be awkward if he did so I've never pressed it lmao)
EnderWiggin
08-23-2025, 03:32
Also discovered I've apparently been nominated for an award for towny play on MU that I didn't realise despite the months since it was happened which is very funny of a contrast between that and this.
EnderWiggin
08-23-2025, 03:35
Also note: the key takeaway at this point from my constant Ender pushing after the claim is NOT whether having Jan give the gun to a villager or wolf makes more sense.
The key takeaway is despite me harping on it for two game days - four real life days - Visor at no point tries to go along with it. He argues against it at every turn. He doesn't try to get other peoples thoughts on it. He doesn't try to use it to clear me if we're w/w. He doesn't try to use it to get people onto Ender if we're w/w. He doesn't start hemming and hawing about Ender could be a wolf from it.
He constantly defends it. Handwaves it away. Ignores it when possible. He does not want to dig deep into it for an extended period whatsoever.
I actually want to leverage this very argument lol.
Lissa
You've played a lot with Visor. He's an adroit wolf, but honestly ask yourself:
In a situation when defending partners or bussing them is proposed, he tends towards always giving himself ways to bus.
He has rarely been the wolf defending a partner and refusing to agree to a wolfread.
Why would he break that for me here? Especially going into F3 where bussing is classically the more effective move.
And yes I'm going to appeal to you to the final moment idc if you take my words with a grain of salt because at least if you hammer me when I do I can feel like I've tried.
EnderWiggin
08-23-2025, 03:48
I will call back to earlier days and people though. I'll acknowledge I had a bad EOD2. I don't have a defense for it. But that shit happens to town and Ladd acknowledged I have done it as town in the past. (I will grab this quote if you really need.)
But also what was Waza's final reads?
So yeah tldr ur probs the middle man who seems tonally okay and i will judge based on how flips go
If visor lissa jan is wolf heavy then that’s favorable for you, if its very villa heavy then you might be in trouble or at the very least will require a more closer reading
still iffy on sunbaes solving ngl
i appreciate the work they put in, but they never seem to be here at eod which is the most important point of the day, that being said it could be timezones. but yeah just hard for me to digest that theyre doing a lot of solving but none of it really translates to impacting how the day plays out which makes me wonder if its for show
also im bothered by their rask/ladd/me solve feels kinda powerwolfy, i know its 1/3 at best with ladd being the only possible wolf there and if ladd is town then its 0/3.. i dont get how sunbae can supposedly find visor town but is struggling to find rask. obv skill issue on my part if im wrong on rask but i dont feel like i am atm
Funny that these aren't the posts that Sunbae quoted.
Their final read on Sunbae is that their solving feels unimpactful and stiff and wolfy.
Final read on me is that he doesn't have a good read but "If Lissa/Visor/Jan is wolf heavy then it's favourable for you."
Which... fun fact...
But also, following logic why did Rask die over you?
fwiw I do remember your treatment of pzelda in the first MD game :curtain:
Your treatment of jan start of day 2 feels a bit the same way (you pinged him implying the NK was pointing at him) though I guess the context is somewhat different (it was clear pzelda was dying D1 in that MD game).
Honestly probably this post alone spooked wolves. He was coming to a Sunbae townread. But I want to highlight the following anyway:
Lettuce work on finding a villa in maple/sunbee/ladd
Why am I letting Ender apart I dunno.
Ill wait for the hoody claim before posting more nonsense
Nah its just I realised I had let Ender apart staring at the alive player list (maybe because I was leaning town there I dunno)
Ender I feel good about, might be teinted by the fact they have a correct read on me... cannot parse it vetween tmi or just good villaging... still unlikely to go there for now.
If I'm wolf Rask was pocketed.
If I'm making a Jan gambit to go deep... why am I ever killing Rask? Of all the players in this lobby he is one of the people I'm most confident in pocketing. And I honestly can show you evidence from previous org games of this. Though I think you've been in several.
So like why would I ever kill him over you who I think only had a townread on me due to the shot and even then you were warbling on it?
Rask literally left me out of a list subconsciously because he's reviewing me as town. I take that 100% of the time.
EnderWiggin
08-23-2025, 03:55
Also as a side note "Sunbae actually seemed to be trying to solve the game" so you think the whole 'unnatural' dropping of my reads list and rereading from the start wasn't trying to solve the game?
In response to the whole "I don't know how Ender forgot x it was memorable" I can reveal the funniest part of my play:
I make reads list partially to remind me of where my brain was at. Idc if you find this wolfy it is 100% true and I'll confirm that post-game if you need. Might be I need to be clearer how my brain works because it feels like it just doesn't work how people think brains work. Hence the sequence where I forgot why I townread Waza and went and searched my own posts for the reason.
I actually want to leverage this very argument lol.
Lissa
You've played a lot with Visor. He's an adroit wolf, but honestly ask yourself:
In a situation when defending partners or bussing them is proposed, he tends towards always giving himself ways to bus.
He has rarely been the wolf defending a partner and refusing to agree to a wolfread.
Why would he break that for me here? Especially going into F3 where bussing is classically the more effective move.
And yes I'm going to appeal to you to the final moment idc if you take my words with a grain of salt because at least if you hammer me when I do I can feel like I've tried.
that isn't really a standard definition i'd assign to his wolfgame; i do think he can very much do an array of things depending on the situation
i don't think him bussing you in v3 in a you/him world would have actually changed the resulting calculus too much here tbh
i think it could very well make sense for him to have protected you here as w/w. i think it sticks out a lot, to me, that both jan and visor were pretty much completely uninterested in ever killing you in any concrete way when if a villager you're certainly one of the more mislimable people in the lobby. i understand that's a point that you can't really engage with in any meaningful way if you're a villager and i'm sorry about that and do believe that if you are a villager i will get there in spite of that. but it's definitely a big thing on my mind, here
i certainly see what you mean about him being weirdly obsessed with asking people about you, as i read his early posts again
its a bit weird honestly either way lol. he never really did anything with any of it, just passively tossed you as fine to die d1 and then voted maple, d2 he sort of soft made a w/w read on ladd and you, he spent so much time asking people questions about you but never really did anything real with it.
he has a string of posts in the early 500s where it feels increasingly like he's trying to tie you and ladd together, then kinda drops that line, then tossed you in a list of people he was fine with killing in a spot where you were clearly never a real candidate pretty close to eod
then the next day (sod3) he starts sorta softball pushing you shortly before you get itt and claim the kill
and after that just in general he seems pretty uninterested in ever actually exploring the idea of you being a wolf in a way that sticks out as notable
in a world where you are a wolf, rask presumably died over me because i was pretty deeply pocketed by visor and yall hoped you could win in f5 to it (not an unreasonable world for a number of reasons, there is certainly history that supports it potentially working)
Also as a side note "Sunbae actually seemed to be trying to solve the game" so you think the whole 'unnatural' dropping of my reads list and rereading from the start wasn't trying to solve the game?
In response to the whole "I don't know how Ender forgot x it was memorable" I can reveal the funniest part of my play:
I make reads list partially to remind me of where my brain was at. Idc if you find this wolfy it is 100% true and I'll confirm that post-game if you need. Might be I need to be clearer how my brain works because it feels like it just doesn't work how people think brains work. Hence the sequence where I forgot why I townread Waza and went and searched my own posts for the reason.
i don't think i worded that quite how i wanted to, i apologize. i was genuinely dozing off as i wrote parts of that post
if you're a villager you definitely just kinda had less opportunity to display more over-time ig attempt to solve the game due to time reasons, i do recognize that. truthfully it's definitely just harder to compare the f5s when sunbae was here for a while going down a bunch of lines of thought exploring weird angles and out there lines of thought, and yours doesn't do that sort of thing to that kind of extent but it also makes sense that it wouldn't if you're a villager. you simply werent really in thread that much after the cross for non game reasons so there wasn't as much like visible development
(and i get it about the reads lists, i believe you i don't doubt that)
it certainly is a thing that visor latched on hard to that waza push on sunbae and used it to get him killed, effectively, which would be /very/ advantageous there if sunbae is a wolf lol
EnderWiggin
08-23-2025, 04:31
The only reasoning I can propose is that I get more ml-able the later in the game it gets lmao.
But yeah idk what I'm supposed to say there. I don't know why I was that person they kept soft-baiting sus on but never committed to.
i think sunbae hard committing to ladd v was pretty villagery
I think if you go back to start of day 3 and read where I started at before rereading and then where I ended up on Ladd it makes it crystal clear how I reached that conclusion. We had just gotten Jan W, Cape v, and Waza v flips so when I started at Maple/Ladd before rereading and then seeing him vote Jan as a double voter immediately, vote Jan day 2, and defend both cape and waza to people during his ISO I realized he was playing massively pro villa.
i think its just ladd and maple
visor, lissa seem pretty villa
rasks posts today are good
ender claimed the kill
forgive me if i do not wall today (tho i note that if its ladd and maple my conclusions were correct i just voted wrong!!!)
I am a bit skeptical after reading that Ladd has gone from "why isnt visor just a wolf" to trying to convince Visor im a wolf without having done a full catchup yet. But! I will say that with Ladds "why isnt visor just a wolf" and Raks being on Visors case for 2+ game days that I will go back and read Visor in isolation for my due diligence. I do suppose that if I say Im a sucker for people wolf reading their friends strongly and pointing to Visor doing so about Rask, then I really should look at it the same way when Rask is doing it too. I think it was just visors language being so direct ("mask off" post) that pulled me to that direction.
I hear that ladd. I will do a full reread today with an open mind. My hope is that most of the game are handshake.jgp because it's just been boxed out. You have ender shooting a wolf, lissa and visor pushing jan at eod2, hoping that maple is a wolf who isnt really posting much content which clearing rask from being a wolf if so, and then I'm left with you.
Now this isn't a lock which is why I'll reread later once I get more free time. I could see scenarios where ender is a wolf and either claimed the shot from Cape or had a wolf ploy to just actually kill Jan to go deep. I could see scenarios where Rask is a wolf and Maple isn't. I could see scenarios that Visor or Lissa voted Jan with full intention of moving off.
It's just as of right now I think those scenarios are just less likely than "maple is a wolf and you're the least villagery remaining". Which, hey, I thought you were villagery d1 and then you were afk day 2 so maybe it's just an absence thing and I'll realize my mistake if so as you post more.
What I'm going to do is reread the thread with the following possibilities in mind:
- Does the thread made sense if the wolves are something like Ender/Visor/Jan. This would be ultra hard world.
- Does the thread make sense if the wolves are something like Visor/Lissa/Jan. Also a difficult world.
Both of those worlds would have me turned around on day 2 pretty bad thanks to a visor misclear but I do want to touch on them because I now know Waza was a villager who was clearing Rask hard (even going so far as to say I am wolfy for not having Rask clear but having Visor clear) and Rask has been mostly pushing Visor for days. So due diligence on the hard worlds are going to be helpful.
Once I knock those out I'll have a better idea of where to go from there. I am hoping the answer is Maple/Jan/x but we'll see
d1/d2 recap of things i found noteworthy for each player during reread (raw data, no conclusion yet)
Rask:
- "I made a note on Ladd, I'll reveal it later"
- says Jan needs more votes in passing
- votes me, everyones favorite villager
- votes lissa once visor does
- doesn't like enders vote on maple (again, defending maple just "lacking")
- unsure what to do with visor now, calls maple/lissa coordinated
- asks ladd why vote logic instead of maple
- votes visor
- questions vanta for their jan vote, says its out of nowhere
- pushes visor more wondering why he was pushing vanta and cape, says its too proactive for villa visor prior to eod
- begging people to vote visor at eod. ends with 3-2-2 logic visor maple. Logic flips v.
- starts d2 pushing visor
- says visor isnt trying to find peoples alignment, just pushing people waiting for a case to take off
- but does like the callout of jan
- says if visor villa we need to look into maple/lissa/jan then votes lissa
- hates to admit it but visor might be villa, lissa still has wolf equity as does maple, likes ender, wishy washy on me, waza/ladd town
- has ladd villa based on d1
Ladd:
- becomes double voter, votes Jan
- waza comments that his nonchalance when voting Jan is wolfy as there would be pressure there to be right (also a too much lmao read)
- calls visor wolfy, says theres no reason cape cant just be a wolf pushing a villager or a villager with a right read
- says he thought ender was fine then reread the posts and wow they are so wolfy
- says is ok with jan, visor, cape, vanta, waza, me, rask
- now thinks visor is a wolf
- thinks lissa is villa, doesnt wanna lunch cape because he thinks waza is villa and waza likes cape villa, changed his mind again on ender and likes the recent posts about maple, calls jan v because i called jan v, has visor wolfy still
- votes logic
- changes his mind on sheeping jan v and calls him in commentary mode
- disappointed in jans reentry
- confident in rask/cape/waza villa
- votes lissa, defends visor, calls rask/visor v/v but also doesnt know if that works. says one concern is visor/maple being w/w cause the push feels w/w
- votes jan
Visor:
- Calls cape/vanta w/w with the idea that cape knows vanta is most common miskill and as a villager would wait and see whereas the early vote points to knowing they are gonna get pressured and getting on early.
- defends maple to ender (manti hasnt done anything alignment indicative)
- pushes back on my jan v read a smidge then asks me about ender and maple
- votes lissa
- votes maple
- starts day 2 pushing rask, #400 is the "mask off, painted the words IM A WOLF" post
- calls maple a wolf, then asks jan about vanta dying given vanta was wolf reading jan
- is confused about ladds take on ender and flip flopping
- says maple is in their slanking wolf game, d2 for jan is looking worse because theres nothing against thread position. like he's worried about who to push instead of just pushing wolf reads
- votes maple with a cmon do something
- likes lissa voting jan (more stick your neck out than her normal wolf game)
- votes jan after lissa extensive casing of jan w
- questions ender voting lissa and where the jan read went
- calls waza/jan w/w
- votes waza
- votes jan
- votes waza
ender
- defends rask from waza but calls waza v for the read
- votes vanta, then changes course and votes maple
- calls jan wolfy for "this his down to end it with idk if wolfy" in comments about ender
- says cape, rask, me, waza likely has zero wolves. maybe vanta too.
- says jan feels wolfy, maple feels wolfy, slight red to visor, lissa is w/e
- reiterates that maples latching onto "capes omgus" is just hardcore aggro wolfing
- pushes back at jan and rask defending maple
- calls rask town
- starts day 2 reiterating rask town, votes visor, calls cape town too
- reiterates visor wolf using a previous game as evidence where visor was weirdly aggro towards him but then pulls it back after actually checking and pulling the quotes
- continues to call rask v and then calls lissa sus
- calls jan/maple feeling of being paired
- votes lissa after lissas extensive jan casing
lissa
- defends maple to ender with the same "hasnt done anything alignment indicative" reasoning as visor did earlier
- votes cape
- agreed with ladd that jan v, but disagrees on cape v and still thinks cape is a wolf
- agreed with ladd that jan is in commentary mode and is probably somewhat >rand wolf
- doesnt wanna kill cape anymore, maybe ender but meh not really
- votes logic
- not villa reading visor strongly anymore
- explains she didnt wanna killa maple eod1, "liked a couple of her posts"
- thinks rask/visor is v/v, thinks im a villager, thinks jan is a wolf and votes jan
- does a whole post quoting some jan posts saying she still thinks jans a wolf
- does it again
- does it a third time
- does it a fourth time
- has a conclusion post about jan wolf (564)
- has a followup about it with visor who agreed
- doesnt want to kill visor, thinks jan is actively wolfy
- votes waza?
- votes jan ("kill the wolfy player who is probably a wolf")
- votes waza
- doesnt wanna go maple
maple
- votes ender as an unabashed omgus
- cases cape as a w
jan interactions
- shades ender for their posts towards knights and their vote on maple but then says twtbaw
- supports lissa's pushing of cape (i read this as not aligned fwiw)
- votes lissa d2, has maple lissa as the two wolf reads
- says enders intro d1 is too convoluted to come from a wolf. the way he agreed with maple just to turn around within two heartbeats
Conclusions based on rereading:
1. Ladd is quite villagery. Becoming a double voter and immediately voting Jan, reasonable looking back and forths about players like visor and ender where see movement happening in his opinions based on posts that are happening, has good reasons to villa read villagers being pushed a bit such as defending cape because he thinks waza is a villager and waza thinks cape is a villager. Has a good shift on Jan from v (sponging me) to disagreeing and calling him in commentary mode after another spurt of Jan posting. Has every ability to just keep that V read and blame me for it but is calling out Jan instead. Votes Jan again. In order for Ladd to be a wolf he has to just be playing rather pro villa. Defending villagers and pushing wolves while doing so with fluid reads on people.
2. I have concerns about Ender who called out Jan and Maple as w/w but then once the eod 2 happens where Jan and Maple are wagons ends up voting Lissa (who has just cased Jan extensively). However, I do feel like their posts on Maple are pretty spot on ("hardcore aggro wolfing") and I think their sequence with Visor about calling him out for being wolfy for a similar aggression to him as a recent wolfgame and then backing off when he went and found it and noticed it was different is villagery. I just struggle to see where the lissa vote came in that context so hopefully he can help me out with that and I can be ok.
3. There were multiple instances of her defending Maple against pressure that stood out to me - notably the one that actively says she liked some of Maples posts rather than just the nai defense - and once she started going on Jan she didn't stop for a while only to last second swap to Waza because visor called Jan/Waza w/w??? So one of two things occurred here: 1.) Lissa started the bus on Jan once it was becoming apparent that his time was short (and knowing he was going to give the gun to someone and might be dead anyways) so did so thoroughly and convincing where she quoted multiple Jan posts and read them as the wolfiest interpretation possible. Like 5-6 posts about it in a shortish order and reiterating it with people. Then once another avenue opened up at eod she figured why not get waza if possible. or 2.) She correctly buried a wolf and then got cold feet at eod when he came in and claimed, then voted the other wagon that wasnt someone she was defending (maple).
I can see both of those possible. The thing is I can see her as a wolf with Maple (defending one while bussing the other), with Visor (working together to push it onto Waza), or with Ender (Jan returns and wolfchat concocts the "let ender shoot me" plan so they need Ender/Lissa to make sure Jan lives that night). I do find it odd that Jan is the only person she latches onto and really digs into their posts to reiterate their wolfiness yet backs off at eod.
This is a tough spot for me because she did spend time defending me that eod while cape/waza wanted to shade me. So I think I'm supposed to clear her for defending me/pushing jan but yeah idk. I'm keeping an open mind and I see a lot of lissa wolf avenues.
chewing on visor/rask stuff still so more to come there
god im either great at werewolf or dogshit at it but i wanna call ladd the villageriest person in the game after rereading ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I don't think it is an exaggeration to call this sequence the turning point for me figuring out the game. Everything I did late day 3 to day 4 - from clearing rask to villa reading you to finally getting there on visor - stemmed from this sequence. It's clear where I started, how I got to where I got to, and how it took me in different directions that the wolves were aiming for right there. And it's clear I stuck to my guns when push came to shove on Ladd vs Visor.
- Ladd voting Jan as a double voter
- Ladd voting Jan on day 2 and staying there
- Lad defending Cape and Waza
My thoughts on rask is that like every dead villager had rask as an obvious villager and even alive people are all circling around it (ladd has it strong, ender does too, then visor/lissa are kinda like yeah i want to call rask a wolf but maybe hes just v).
If I look at his posting myself then I do have a few concerns. First, he's had multiple instances of throwing Jan into wolf reads (needs more votes, likes visors callout of jan for the vanta night kill when he was wolfreading jan, if visor villa we need to looks at maple/lissa/jan) but never actually applying any pressure there like he does to maple and lissa in similar spots. Second, I feel like the Vanta kill comes after rask getting to talk to him all night means there could be more than rasks post about their hood chats (that is, vanta gives reads and rask is like oh lets kill him). Third, I feel like the flip flopping on visor is odd in the strength of things. The reasons listed for pushing visor are strong things such as "isnt trying to find peoples alignment", "too proactive for villa visor" but the reasons for backing off are just like "well i hate to admit it but maybe visor is a villa" without anything specific and concrete as a reason to point to for that feeling. Which I find concerning because either you're exaggerating your strength of the wolf read to back off of it for lighter reasons or you're less willing to describe why you're villa reading him rather than wolf reading him. Which both make me go hmmm.
HOWEVER, there are good call outs of jan in there even if they aren't followed up on. There is clear back and forth on visor thoughts. He is trying to get his wolf reads killed and not laying back in commentary mode. He's sticking his neck out into things and bouncing around topics. His strong villa reads seem good.
Gun to head I'm calling him a villager based off of the dead villagers and the fact that I have to elaborately explain ways he could be a wolf while the ways he can be a villager are just "yeah hes playing well as a villager, makes sense"
god im either great at werewolf or dogshit at it but i wanna call ladd the villageriest person in the game after rereading ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
really? walk me through it
Like Ladd has just been pro villa start to finish. defending cape, defending waza, not hiding behind my jan v read and starting to get there on him, voting jan as a double voter, votes jan again like idk its just all pretty villagery to me results wise
if you could talk more about lissa i'd appreciate it
i gotta think on ladd some, if you feel that strongly about it
I can feel the disappointment in his wolfy ass t0an when I get there on Ladd for good reasons and stick to it too hehehe
My thoughts on rask is that like every dead villager had rask as an obvious villager and even alive people are all circling around it (ladd has it strong, ender does too, then visor/lissa are kinda like yeah i want to call rask a wolf but maybe hes just v).
If I look at his posting myself then I do have a few concerns. First, he's had multiple instances of throwing Jan into wolf reads (needs more votes, likes visors callout of jan for the vanta night kill when he was wolfreading jan, if visor villa we need to looks at maple/lissa/jan) but never actually applying any pressure there like he does to maple and lissa in similar spots. Second, I feel like the Vanta kill comes after rask getting to talk to him all night means there could be more than rasks post about their hood chats (that is, vanta gives reads and rask is like oh lets kill him). Third, I feel like the flip flopping on visor is odd in the strength of things. The reasons listed for pushing visor are strong things such as "isnt trying to find peoples alignment", "too proactive for villa visor" but the reasons for backing off are just like "well i hate to admit it but maybe visor is a villa" without anything specific and concrete as a reason to point to for that feeling. Which I find concerning because either you're exaggerating your strength of the wolf read to back off of it for lighter reasons or you're less willing to describe why you're villa reading him rather than wolf reading him. Which both make me go hmmm.
HOWEVER, there are good call outs of jan in there even if they aren't followed up on. There is clear back and forth on visor thoughts. He is trying to get his wolf reads killed and not laying back in commentary mode. He's sticking his neck out into things and bouncing around topics. His strong villa reads seem good.
Gun to head I'm calling him a villager based off of the dead villagers and the fact that I have to elaborately explain ways he could be a wolf while the ways he can be a villager are just "yeah hes playing well as a villager, makes sense"
god im either great at werewolf or dogshit at it but i wanna call ladd the villageriest person in the game after rereading ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
really? walk me through it
Like Ladd has just been pro villa start to finish. defending cape, defending waza, not hiding behind my jan v read and starting to get there on him, voting jan as a double voter, votes jan again like idk its just all pretty villagery to me results wise
Aight so I'm DEFINITELY dying, but we're on 7 and there's most likely 2 wolves left, so unless we hit today or people were REALLY convinced I was clear, me dying generally reasonable. Soooooo not much for me to do about that, since I'm guessing im gonna be alone till i go to bed, and i wont be there till the morning. Sad!
Anyway, my major issue here, frankly, is the phase change being at maybe the literal most inconvenient hour for me at all possible. It sort of just is what it is. Nyaaaaa
As far as the *game* goes.
I'm concerned wrt mechfuckery wrt the Jan vigi, tho. Yall are in LyLo starting tmr if I'm understanding the situation correctly, so it IS gonna be relevant tmr.
Don't think it's Ladd. Don't think it's sunbae. Cobalt death in that way feels quite weird? Cause like whyyyy? I mean, it makes me nervous about the mechs is all. Like, Jan *presumably* made the kill?
i mean that puts me where: looking at some combination of lissa/visor and then a chance of ender. I'd have outside odd on rask. Rask can be partner with lissa or visor i think just given how uhhhhhhhhhhhhh bad things have gone for the village. meow.
chat, we're cooked. gl in f5 lmao
maple goat
oh god get the multiquotes away ahhhh
alrighty, i am here
gonna re read the game real quick (and especially cathc up to d2)
i read sunbae latest posts and honestly i dont think i will be able to find him if he is a wolf lmao
visor otoh :curtain:
ladd GOAT
Again though. That sequence of
its ladd/maple" -> let me do my due diligence and reread -> uh ladd is the most villagery person in the game??? and rask is a villager too? i guess its maple/ender or just one wolf or something -> harp on ender killing jan repeatedly
did a lot of work and i think if you read through visors posts at that time he was a lil shook too! maybe just wishful thinking but i see it!
im out for the night, hope to wake up to a win
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 5 - Votes from post 1197 through 1234
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
1SunbaeEnderWiggin (15 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867729&viewfull=1#post2053867729))
1EnderWigginSunbae (16 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867732&viewfull=1#post2053867732))
1Not VotingLissa (4)
Votes are locked.
alright, laid on the floor thinking about this game for a while, now time for a reread of the game
i haven't really slept today so i don't know how much i feel like voting before sleeping but i also might just do it, tbd!
Preliminarily, the things I thought about on the floor:
-A question I wanted to answer was: What are the strong reasons for Ender to be a villager. I do think that Ender has posted well in this game, to be clear. (in theory this exercise was: what are the reasons ender is a villa, reasons ender is a wolf, reasons sunbae is a villa, reasons sunbae is a wolf but I think I sorta half dozed off and lost my train of thought a bit. I think I've delved pretty extensively into both sides of this for sunbae though and I just.. realized I felt like I was really lacking in doing so on the ender side of things? And sorta solving both more off sunbae than anything, yesterday, to some extent.)
-Extending from that, I thought about: the weird way Visor played around Ender, asking half the thread what they thought of him but never doing anything with it other than... briefly trying to tie Ladd to him as w/w. On some level this stuff can kinda go either way. But also sticks out to me that Jan hard townread him/shielded him as well. And again, Visor literally never tried to actually kill Ender in any even close to meaningful way at all when there was plenty of alleys for trying to do so I would say.
-I'm hesitant to weight this one a lot cause it's like... inherently speculative and the last time I based a decision on mech spec, the result was "I was wrong and almost singlehandedly lost a game if not for some weird specific mechanical circumstances that pulled it back" although that mech spec was also a lot more ESOTERIC and jank, but anyway, intuitively, it makes a lot of sense to me that wolves have some sort of bomb info or protection role. Some sort of role that interacts with the setup. Like the core role of this setup is clearly that neutral role, and that's where a lot of the other mechanical stuff in the setup springs from and what all of it interacts with. Waza had the village role interacting with it. To circle back to my point, the living wolf is probably a fairly relevant wolf PR. With four bombs out, making nightkills is soooorta a fuckin minefield for wolves that it's hard to imagine there's zero counterplay for.
-To come back to the relevant point moreso, Visor and Jan distinctively avoiding pushing ender and shielding him respectively really sticks out through this lens as fitting with that.
-I do want to really pay attention to this as I reread the game, there's some later Visor stuff I also want to talk about and I also need to pay closer attention to how both treated Sunbae.
Also thought some about the Jan parting gift thing, and how it fit into those mechanical lines, and how basically, using that is choosing to give village that extra kill right then, instead of letting whatever villager has the n3 likely use it otherwise then and likely die unless they're super, super clear. They don't know it's me! I sorta tried to parse that for a while. But if that parting gift turned out to be someone super villagery or something (which it was, but the Result in this case is sorta beside the point) then having Jan not hold and be elimed the next day there is... basically, the wolves let us kill maple for free instead of only being able to use that "free" kill on a specific villager (they didnt know who, but it was me. coulda been maple. i think all the other options possible made doing this significantly worse for them)
So like you want to get HIGH upside out of doing that, surely. I mean if you don't do it... Jan dies the next day, you go to f6, 2:4 or 2:3 depending on what happens with the other gift. Unless gift is on exactly maple and she's the free kill, don't you (you as in wolves) just kinda fucking win that? I mean. Lmao like..
but anyway, going into n1, if 11 alive/3 wolves, there's a real world that hitting a poisonous bomb is literally 50/50 lol. Bit of an extreme end, but seems cursed af if no counterplay at all.
Could also explain stuff like cape kill over .. well I was gonna say me and rask, but idk that rask made that much sense yet there actually, nvm. Obviously I lived cause visor was successfully pocketing the shit out of me. When we talked about this before it was visor saying why not me or visor, lmao. Anyway. Also sorta notable that if they buried the gift and had wolf ender claim it, they basically had to decide the nightkill before EoD.
But, reading the game. Highly focused, as you can see.
Very funny if like.. village Sunbae dropped that Jan strong town p2 read and multiple wolves were both like ??? cause they knew jan was a wolf. Notably, visor and ender seem to be the only reactions.
Cape/Rask/Sunbae/Waza likely has 0 wolves. Vanta maybe there too but reserving judgement.
I am not going to snap read Ladd because I have no idea if this is opportunistic wolfy Ladd or if it's towny Ladd who wolfreads me randomly. (Last game alone is an example of Ladd calling me "Second wolfiest poster in this thread" while we were v/v)
Visor is visoring tho I'm a lil sketched at their incessant poking of people to read me. Lightest shade of red.
Jan feels wolfy. Maple feels wolfy. Lissa doesn't feel.
I don't know if I forgot someone but I think those are my reads atm.
from an ender W standpoint this is a VERY accurate list (well either way really but especially so). idk how much i think that means in any direction really, nor did he exactly go anywhere with the actually accurate parts on d1
vote: Jan
Just vibes mostly. I went over all his posts and didn't really see anything that said town. One post in particular about voting a villager so as to keep Knights around longer, as I guess his stumpness is over as soon as we ax a wolf. Kind of sounded like he thought he could make that happen. Anyway it pinged me.
Also I took an antihistamine and fell asleep at my computer which is not helping my mental sharpness at all.
Thought Ender's beginning series of posts was...strange? It seemed to me that it sounded like he had read the thread, but then was reacting to things as if he had not read the thread (like not knowing that Knights had flipped, and there was something else that now escapes my woozy brain). He looked better to me later though.
Of the current vote leaders. logic hasn't said a lot but also only a few posts, while Lissa has a lot of posts but I can't remember her saying a lot in all those posts. So if I had to go with one of those two it'd be Lissa.
Okay let me amend that, I'm reading everybody's posts but I did go back in particular to look at Jan's. Not the only one.
I could switch to Visor, that weird push about me being w/w with Cape because I get mizzled a lot seemed like a stretch and also seemed like a way to say I'm an easy mizzle so why not? It also pushed me into thinking Cape probably v.
if ender is a wolf, holy moly, no wonder vanta died
really regardless of that lol
EnderWiggin
08-23-2025, 14:38
In absolutely classic fashion I've got badly sick and will no longer be disappearing to see Beetlejuice stageplay tomorrow. I'm gonna try to sleep and actually have a working brain.
Once again irl conspires against me for ww lol.
EnderWiggin
08-23-2025, 14:40
Honestly if I get hammered for fitting being "Wolf anti-poison PR" I'll probably at least laugh over it.
EnderWiggin
08-23-2025, 14:45
I will say that I feel like something I should point out is how Sunbae's arguments keep returning to the "Look at how good my turnaround was!" should be wolfy in a vacuum because like, I can fake progression as wolf and Sunbae is a much better player than me.
And then quoting all the people who called him town while calling them goats, I can do that too and there's several people who did that.
I want to point out Knights who called Jan as wolfy correctly as treestump also dipped a sus down on Sunbae. Kinda d1 so less relevant but like, my point is that quoting people calling you town or your cross wolf is easy and actually means nothing but Sunbae is acting like it's irrefutable proof because audacity and confident statements sway people because it sounds nice.
EnderWiggin
08-23-2025, 14:45
That's all for me as I go to try and cough up my organs in my bed.
i don't know how you go from saying enders posts are "I am ngl when i first read his posts i thought he seemed fine
But then i re read them and wow they are so wolfy lmao"
and then the second spurt is fine and really?
i don't really understand how you changed your mind here
at the risk of making another w/w read..... :curtain:
the ladd/ender w/w post from visor
I am still ~kinda confident Rask is town. Confidence shaken but not stirred.
Vote: Visor
Honestly don't have a super big scumread on Visor myself, but given their still as-of-yet unexplained obsession with getting people to react to me on D1 and Rask+Waza being here I'm willing to entertain it for now while I stare balefully in Maple's general direction.
Actually Visor's obsession with poking people in my direction might just be a strong wolftell. There was the other game where they wolfed recently and we D1'd em where they had this aggro on me for 0 reason.
ok i want to see where this, like, actually goes
Okay nevermind this isn't as similar as I wanted it to be. Nyeh.
well
Also Lissa might be my second biggest sus after re-reading eod.
There's a lot of wishywashy ending in a lame vote on Logic. And the 'agonising' over who to sus doesn't really feel like it's going anywhere. Maybe will feel diff after they enter D2 but this is worthy of a :curtain:
the stuff described here didn't. really even happen psure
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 427
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
3VisorEnderWiggin (6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866901&viewfull=1#post2053866901)), Raskolnikov (9 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866844&viewfull=1#post2053866844)), waza (1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866850&viewfull=1#post2053866850))
2RaskolnikovSunbae (13 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866885&viewfull=1#post2053866885)), Visor (14 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053866846&viewfull=1#post2053866846))
6Not VotingCape90 (9), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (3), ladd (1)
I had Jan as wolfy. They kinda misrepped me in a "defend Maple but not directly" way that kinda felt paired but idk if I'm reading too much into it.
It was this whole "How does Ender do this to Maple?!??!?"
thing is, ender still hasn't DONE anything with this read really
not even a vote
Ladd is in the weird position where I think he could be a wolf, but there is no point in pushing him today, when he is mostly gone for this phase.
The n1 kill makes me think Ladd will be alive for a while, and we can talk about him when he is back.
I agree with waza that sunbae might be someone to look at if you are a villager (or rather if rask/you is v/v).
I don't have a strong read on you, but I rarely read you these days. You either find a wolf and die at night or don't find a wolf and die during the day.
I don't think this game has a lot of "counter culture" simply because most people could still be wolves and reads are fairly soft.
Why only one in Ladd ender
What do you make of ladds switch off from ender
visor bringing up ladd/ender, again
(he did kinda soft drop it after)
Vote: Unvote
I have had a day. Idk how much time I'll have to properly read leading up to EOD. But with this I think I'm more okay with Jan or Lissa dying over Visor now.
Visor has really talked about wanting to read Ender but then like not reading ender like twice today, in the second post being like "Ender is tomorrow's problem"
ok i had to go back and find this post, which is probably about my cue to go to bed
i don't disagree with this
ladds reaction to my callout of his ender posts was also just very much a walterwhiteyougotme.gif too (not in a bad way, just that he was like yeah, fair)
it is hard for me to wrap my head around some of the play pattern though - ladd saying what he did in such a strong manner made me thought oh he is going to have seen what i saw
and then he never did and reversed the read for what seems like lacklustre reasoning for such strong word choices in his original push there
but then why do that in the frst place if w/w right? like is your goal to have some sort weird theatre, but then you back down anyway afterwards
i think i am coming around to it being too sloppy to be w/w or at least not planned interactions in that way
i need to reread enders posts re me but i am quite bad at accurately processing responses to me like those so im just gonna put that off till tomorrow lol
i dont know what to make of rask backing off on me a bit - kind of like a kid with his hand in the cookie jar when mum catches him lol
like i want to be like yes this is villagery because you've come to a correct read in a higher stake situation but the thread situation for rask has noticeably turned for the worst and therefore tis possible he also noticed that and saw that he had to back off and change direction for the time being
sometimes i wish i could crush sentimentality lmao
tomorrows problem!
heres the main visor punts on ender, post
I completely dozed off while trying to catch up lolme.
Vote: Lissa
mm i do think visor's posts re waza here feel more directed at /killing waza/ than protecting sunbae
i think ender just dropped that vote on me and left? i know he talked about it a bit later/the next day rather, i'll get to it
4/2 felt boring 4/3 might be more exciting idk.
oh it was here, is this literally it
(he did make more posts but they weren't really about where he was voting or why or about options or anything)
despite having correct multiple wolfreads, ender hasnt really tried to kill the more viable of them to actually die (jan) at all and is ending day on a villager when his read on me was probably the thinnest/limpest reason out of his wolfreads
and he just leaves his vote on me with only the explanation of basically, making interesting wagons when 1. i am there actively posting and people are generally reading my posting as villagery and, well, it is 2. the wagon formation he's describing has gone away/changed
If we don't kill Jan and I don't really want to kill lissa
I will accept maple ender or waza
this is just lip service, ender was never dying there lol
i about need to go to bed i think, so gonna finish reading/vote after i sleep, sorry yall
i think its obviously pretty clear what way i am heavily leaning but i do want to finish rereading before i commit
In absolutely classic fashion I've got badly sick and will no longer be disappearing to see Beetlejuice stageplay tomorrow. I'm gonna try to sleep and actually have a working brain.
Once again irl conspires against me for ww lol.
unfortunate, feel better soon friendo
hope you feel better ender
It is true that I'm harping on the same things but that's because I believe those are the main keys that get to the correct answer.
1. I believe my day 3 and day 4 is a clear cut case of a villager who just got a good chunk of information sorting through the game and changing their world view based on it. You can also see that it's not just a 180 out of nowhere but instead is someone taking in new information, adjusting some reads based on it, trying to fit those in with the previous strong reads, realizing it's hard for those to all exist, work through the possibilities required for those to all exist, decide they are unlikely, and then sorting through things again giving more weight to the new information and letting go of the earlier held beliefs. I had my strong Visor v read, realized that Ladd and Rask are likely villagers based on the new information of cape/waza/jan deaths, tried to find the worlds where visor/ladd/rask were all v such as lissa/ender wolves or maple/ender wolves, and then eventually came to the conclusion - with help of listening to my strong villager read of ladd calling lissa v and dead villagers cape/waza calling lissa v - that lissa was not the solution. So I landed on Maple/Ender on day 3 and when Maple flipped V and rask died V I went through the game again and determined the wolves were likely Visor and Ender evident by my voting Visor and telling Ladd I was snapping Ender the next day. It is my belief that this is just not something a wolf can replicate. Pieces of it? Sure. The entirety of the process laid out in order? No.
2. Jan giving a gun to a villager when all the wolves need is for maple to be chopped at any point for the win otherwise is just never happening. I sniffed it out as soon as it happened, latched onto it, and just never shut up about it. I have a bunch of posts talking about it because it never made sense to me. If the wolves are me/jan/visor then all we need is one chop out of maple, ender, or rask in that game state (ever! not just the next day! we can chop jan and then maple and win!) and giving the village an extra kill makes zero sense for us. Once you confirmed that you could holster it I latched on harder because I thought "why wouldnt they just give it to a wolf and not shoot, idk" initially but knowing they didnt have to submit at all made it clear to me. It was a major factor of the majority of my solving from that point. Maple/Ender. Lissa/Ender. Visor/Ender. It all circled around that and even at this point with all the talking about it there has still been no explanation that makes sense for why Jan would give a gun to a villager. There are plenty of reasons you'd give one to a wolf though if you think it will make ender look good while visor has two people pocketed and you can cruise to a maple into me/ladd/rask chop. It also makes no sense for Jan to give the gun to a villager who was suspecting him, which Ender said he was doing.
I have hammered these two things over and over again yesterday/today because I think they prove that both I am a villager and that Ender is a wolf respectively.
as somewhat of a mechanical aside it did occur to me just now that there is a possible upside of giving it to a villager, the possibility of a poison bomb, though that does have less value if it's not on a clear and a wolf is hit in the f7 and a villager can use the item and die but obv poison is possible and whatever its just a bunch of speculative layers
also worth remembering the odds of a bomb being hit by jan (which he did) so he could (and would) have been poisoned anyway
a villager getting poisoned and not jan makes for a mylo but its a pretty specific combo
still feels higher upside to just holster and take the consistent normal mylo, though i guess since jan can get poisoned it isnt actually
meh feels like a bunch of kinda levels
will say bury and claim the shot is the most variance reducing choice, even if jans a bomb you can claim antidote in theory prob
will finish rereading soon just a sort of half awake thought i didnt rly wanna forget even tho idk if it gets me anywhere
it feels like a lot of levels re the odds the wolves played mechanically
as somewhat of a mechanical aside it did occur to me just now that there is a possible upside of giving it to a villager, the possibility of a poison bomb, though that does have less value if it's not on a clear and a wolf is hit in the f7 and a villager can use the item and die but obv poison is possible and whatever its just a bunch of speculative layers
also worth remembering the odds of a bomb being hit by jan (which he did) so he could (and would) have been poisoned anyway
a villager getting poisoned and not jan makes for a mylo but its a pretty specific combo
still feels higher upside to just holster and take the consistent normal mylo, though i guess since jan can get poisoned it isnt actually
meh feels like a bunch of kinda levels
will say bury and claim the shot is the most variance reducing choice, even if jans a bomb you can claim antidote in theory prob
will finish rereading soon just a sort of half awake thought i didnt rly wanna forget even tho idk if it gets me anywhere
it feels like a lot of levels re the odds the wolves played mechanically
third sentence makes no sense nvm that bit lmao jans dead that world
but 2:5 but really 2:4 if someones poisoned but
:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 5 - Votes from post 1197 through 1249
VotesTargetVoters (Posts in Phase)
1SunbaeEnderWiggin (19 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867729&viewfull=1#post2053867729))
1EnderWigginSunbae (18 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155137-Kylo-Ren-s-Banana-Time-Mafia?p=2053867732&viewfull=1#post2053867732))
1Not VotingLissa (12)
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