Palestinians in Gaza blaming ... Hamas?

From Spiegel Online:

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In the Gaza Strip people are returning home -- or to the rubble that was once their home. Many are blaming Hamas for the destruction because the militants hid among civilians and attracted Israeli fire. Yet no one dares to speak out openly.

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Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

'Who Has Won Here?'

By Ulrike Putz in Beit Lahia, Gaza

In the Gaza Strip people are returning home -- or to the rubble that was once their home. Many are blaming Hamas for the destruction because the militants hid among civilians and attracted Israeli fire. Yet no one dares to speak out openly.

What is left over when a person is hit by a tank shell. Blood, tissue, bone splinters, splatters on the wall.

And anger.

Mohammed Sadala's rage is aimed at the man, whose remains he found in his bedroom: a Hamas fighter. He and a comrade broke into the home which had long stood empty after the Sadala family fled. The Hamas men shot at the approaching Israelis from the balcony. The soldiers fired back, killing the militants and destroying the house of the 10-strong family in the process.

When Sadala came back to survey the scene he found his property in ruins: the younger children's bedroom was burnt out, while the living room and hallway were strewn with bullet holes and blackened by soot from the fire. In the bedroom lay the corpses: one had bled to death, the other was hit by a tank shell.

Beside the bodies lay the assault rifle which they had used to try to stop the tanks.

"I used to support Hamas because they fought for our country, for Palestine," says Sadala. Hamas stood for a new start, for an end of corruption, which had spread like cancer under the moderate Fatah. In the 2006 elections Hamas won the majority with their message of change, said Sadala, who earned a living in the building business. Gesticulating wildly, the 52-year-old surveyed the ruins of the bedroom: "That is the change that they brought about. We were blasted back 2,000 years."

Through the hole in the wall of his house, Sadala sees a landscape in gray and brown. This is where a neighbourhood had stood, his neighbourhood. Now there is a snake of sand around the bomb crater. It is impossible to tell where the streets once stood. Family houses have turned into piles of debris. People have built refuges using cloth and rubble. They stand alongside dead donkeys and sheep, whose stomachs swell up. No one here has time to remove rotting corpses.

The people from Beit Lahia are starting from zero again: children load wood from broken trees onto their back. Their mothers bend over fires and bake bread. Young women carry water in petrol canisters. Only the men stand around looking numb, smoking, staring blankly. Many people here, like Sandala, had placed their hopes in Hamas -- now they are gazing into nothing, ideologically as well as materially.

Everything Is Lost Now

And it is not just buildings that lie in rubble in the Gaza strip, it is the livelihoods of many thousands of people. In Arabic societies a home is usually everything a family possesses. Often several brothers build a house for the entire family. Living at close quarters has its advantages: when the costs of building the house are paid off, there is more money left over to feed the dozens of family members.

Everything is lost now.

"When Hamas came to power, they came to our aid with packages of groceries," says Abu Abed. The 60-year-old's sons, all of whom are trained hospital nurses, have been without work for years. That is true of many in the Gaza Strip. Now Abu Abed stands before the rumble of the house where he lived with four generations of his family. All that remains are the ground floor pillars. The Israeli navy had its eye on the building from the very beginning of the war. After all, its clear view of Gaza City and the sea would have provided a good base for Hamas.

"I've changed my mind about Hamas," Abu Abed says. "I can't support any party that wages a war that destroys our lives." He is particularly pained by the fact that Hamas is still selling the cease-fire as a victory.

"Who has won here?" he asks and points to the debris that was once his home.

One of his neighbors weighs in: "Many people are now against Hamas but that won't change anything," he says. "Because anyone who stands up to them is killed." Since they took power Hamas has used brutal force against any dissenters in the Gaza Strip. There were news agency reports that during the war they allegedly executed suspected collaborators with Israel. The reign of terror will go on for some time, says the neighbor who doesn't want to give his name. "There will never be a rebellion against Hamas. It would be suicide."

Others swallow their anger. Hail's house is just a few streets away and only suffered light damage. There are a few bullet holes in the living room walls and all of the window panes are broken. Hail also found out after the cease-fire that the militants had used his house as a base for their operations. The door to his house stood open and there were electric cables lying in the hallway. When Hail followed them they led to his neighbor's house which it seems Hamas had mined.

As Hail, in his mid-30s, sat on his porch and thought about what to do a man came by: He was from Hamas and had left something in Hail's home. He let him in and the man then emerged with a bullet proof vest, a rocket launcher and an ammunitions belt. An hour later a fighter with Islamic Jihad called to the door, then disappeared onto the roof and reappeared with a box of ammunition. "The abused civilians' homes for their own purposes. That is not right," Hail says with disgust while trying to remain polite.

In contrast to many of their neighbors the Sadala family is doing comparatively well. They have all survived and the house could theoretically still be repaired. Mohammed Sadala is of another opinion: "There is no way," he says. What happened in his bedroom cannot be covered up just by cleaning. The worst is that he now knows who died in the room. It was Bilal Haj Ali. Sadala knows this because the young mans brothers came to visit a few days ago. They wanted to see the place where Bilal became a martyr. "I did let them in but I hardly spoke a word with them," he says.

The young men took photos of the remains of their brother with their mobile phones. "But they didn't want to clean it up," Sadala says. "I told them not to show their faces here ever again."

Gee, I seem to remember an awful lot of people claiming that this war would lead to vastly increased recruitment for Hamas. But it seems likely there will be no such recruitment from Gaza, where people actually have to live with the actions of Hamas, and the Palestinians quoted in this article are asking the tough questions of Hamas that some anti-Israel people refuse to ask.

CR

You sum up the text as "Hamas hides behind civilians" and in the text it says that Hamas militants/fighters/whatever occupied an empty house. You remark at the end how this won't increase recruitment for Hamas because Sadala is angry at Hamas not at Israel, at yet in the same paragrapgh it says that two brothers of the dead guy came to honour their brother as martyr :dizzy2:

CR I simply have to point out that you can't handle the truth

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

You sum up the text as "Hamas hides behind civilians"

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No, I did not.

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and in the text it says that Hamas militants/fighters/whatever occupied an empty house.

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Which got blown apart by Israel trying to kill the fighters within. The house was destroyed, a family's home was destroyed and now they have nothing.

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You remark at the end how this won't increase recruitment for Hamas because Sadala is angry at Hamas not at Israel, at yet in the same paragrapgh it says that two brothers of the dead guy came to honour their brother as martyr :dizzy2:

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I said any recruitment will not be of the vastly higher type predicted by several people on this site. Kindly cease your repeated misunderstandings.

The fact that two men came to take pictures of the body of their brother and then leave it where it lay does nothing to refute that.

Why, exactly, is this simple concept so confusing?

CR

Beit Lahia ?
That was pretty solid Fatah territory wasn't it (apart from the little Islamic Jihad enclave) the only reason Hamas got a foothold there in the last election was because Fatah split its voters with the arguement between the new and old guard candidates on the list .
So I suppose going there and finding someone who doen't like Hamas would be as hard as going to New York and finding someone that doesn't like Bush .

I don't believe either side completely, we will see the results when the next bloodshed comes around I guess, has been like that for a while now.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

From Spiegel Online:

Gee, I seem to remember an awful lot of people claiming that this war would lead to vastly increased recruitment for Hamas. But it seems likely there will be no such recruitment from Gaza, where people actually have to live with the actions of Hamas, and the Palestinians quoted in this article are asking the tough questions of Hamas that some anti-Israel people refuse to ask.

CR

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In the previous thread i accused the Palestinians of unmitigated stupidity in electing Hamas, that may have been unfair.

While electing Hamas was an act of extreme stupidity, it might appear that the Gazans are emerging from their period of derangement in light of their new appreciation of what glorious benefits Hamas have brought them.

Less than 50% elected Hamas. The other option isn't exactly rosey.

Is all of the UK stupid for voting in Labour and hence causing the current mess?

~:smoking:

the people who voted labour did not vote to elect a terrorist group whose principle aim was the destruction of the superpower next door, and do so by launching attacks on said superpower from the civilian homes and infrastructure of its electorate.

that is rank stupidity.

p.s. while i understand and approve of the conservatives losing power in 97, i do indeed hold the hardcore labour voter to a very stupid creature.

I thought that most often the rockets were fired from the fields.

I agree that professing to hate the superpower next door that is chocking off power, water and food is immflamatory, but I imagine an election manifesto of "Israel is our misunderstood friend" would get few votes. There's a reasonable chance that the populace are upset about being treated the way they are.

In the situation I don't know who I'd think would make a difference. What would you suggest?

~:smoking:

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the people who voted labour did not vote to elect a terrorist group whose principle aim was the destruction of the superpower next door, and do so by launching attacks on said superpower from the civilian homes and infrastructure of its populace.

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In fairness, I doubt the Hamas voters did that either. I think they rather voted in the guys who actually built some of that infrastructure and civilian homes, and provided food and medical care, and compensation when when injury/death occured - versus the previous lot who kept all the cash (meant to do all that social stuff) to themselves.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

I thought that most often the rockets were fired from the fields.

I agree that professing to hate the superpower next door that is chocking off power, water and food is immflamatory, but I imagine an election manifesto of "Israel is our misunderstood friend" would get few votes. There's a reasonable chance that the populace are upset about being treated the way they are.

In the situation I don't know who I'd think would make a difference. What would you suggest?

~:smoking:

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i would suggest that the previously delusional people of Gaza are finally realising what their vote bought them, along with a clear perception that they will have to live with the fact that israel lives next door and will always be the godzilla of the neighbourhood, so why keep sticking pins in his side.

it is possible that this recent conflict has created conditions more conducive to a future peace, in that it has allowed Kadima the breathing room within israels stifling system of coalition governance to push on with a peace process, and that it may finally have cause palestinians to realise that israel isn't going to go away, whatever they do or wish.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

In fairness, I doubt the Hamas voters did that either. I think they rather voted in the guys who actually built some of that infrastructure and civilian homes, and provided food and medical care, and compensation when when injury/death occured - versus the previous lot who kept all the cash (meant to do all that social stuff) to themselves.

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In fairness, I accept what you say, however it is rank stupidity to believe your 'nation' exists in a vacuum from which its actions towards the outside world have no consequence within.

Yet you've not answered what to do.

Sit down contentedly with no infrastructure, awaitinf the next nutritionally deficient meal and hoping that you don't get ill as there's no health service? Then if there's time organise militia patrols to ensure that no one dares to antagonise the Isralis or fires any rockets.

If there was a postal service, one might ask the Israli PM how many years before they might be allowed to have open borders...

~:smoking:

well, as the der-speigel article makes clear the gazans themselves realise they have a problem in that they voted in a bunch of terrorists who they cannot criticise or remove. what indeed will they do? most countries choose revolution in that situation if they have the balls and a fighting chance of winning.

They also have to somehow get off the dole. Those folks receiving subsidies and not paying taxes, tho' often the loudest grousers, are seldom the ones sparking revolutions or reforms.

revenues: $1.149 billion (95% foreign aid)
expenditures: $2.31 billion

Unemployment rate: 41.3%

These people need product. Not to consume; to make, and sell, and export.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

In fairness, I doubt the Hamas voters did that either. I think they rather voted in the guys who actually built some of that infrastructure and civilian homes, and provided food and medical care, and compensation when when injury/death occured - versus the previous lot who kept all the cash (meant to do all that social stuff) to themselves.

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Something I've been wondering, if there is an unpalatable choice between one party who are palatable foreign policy-wise, but who are abysmal domestically, and the other, who are good domestically, but who are abysmal foreign policy-wise, why doesn't the EU or US just formally take over Palestine? Declare the situation there as unfavourable to all in the region, including the Palestinians themselves, and formally take over the government and the wellbeing of the Palestinian state. Sure, it's colonialism all over again, but is it that much worse than the basket case it currently is?

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These people need product. Not to consume; to make, and sell, and export.

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Thats kinda hard when the borders are closed nearly all the time so you don't get any imports or exports

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Thats kinda hard when the borders are closed nearly all the time so you don't get any imports or exports

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And make rockets out of all the fertilizer.

It occurs to me that a bored, frustrated, unemployed Palestinian-Gazan can't be that much different than a bored, frustrated, unemployed American-Californian; that is: trouble waiting to happen.

If I were George Mitchell (ha!), newly-designated US envoy to the M.E., my first trip would be to Nagoya (Toyota HQ) and persuade the CEO to build a plant in Gaza City. Then sell the idea to Gaza leadership, and break ground this spring. Volunteer the US Navy/Coast Guard to provide port and coast security for both Israel and Gaza, relieving Israel of that duty, for 5 years.

Give the Gazans something to fight for, instead of an ancient enemy to fight against.

And that, lads, is Kukri's over-simplified, stupid idea for peace in the mid-east. Jobs. Product. Security. A sense of personal and group self-respect and dignity. Hands busy making Prius's, instead of katyusha's

Unfortunately, now it's only Hamas money that is helping the Gazans who suffered the torments of war.

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Originally Posted by Guildenstern

Unfortunately, now it's only Hamas money that is helping the Gazans who suffered the torments of war.

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So why doesn't the US or EU just take over the direct government of Palestine? Sod this nonsense about an intractable problem and the impossibility of persuading all sides to mutual agreement. Take over domestic policy, so there will no longer be the culture of corruption, nor any shortage in fundng. Take over foreign policy, so attacks on Israel will no longer be tolerated, nor Israeli encroachment on Palestinian territory. Promise any potential investors that stability will now be guaranteed by the new administration. No BS about democracy and whatnot - the administration of the province is geared entirely towards stability and eventual prosperity.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

So why doesn't the US or EU just take over the direct government of Palestine? Sod this nonsense about an intractable problem and the impossibility of persuading all sides to mutual agreement. Take over domestic policy, so there will no longer be the culture of corruption, nor any shortage in fundng. Take over foreign policy, so attacks on Israel will no longer be tolerated, nor Israeli encroachment on Palestinian territory. Promise any potential investors that stability will now be guaranteed by the new administration. No BS about democracy and whatnot - the administration of the province is geared entirely towards stability and eventual prosperity.

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Iraq II -- complete with having to fight incursions by our allies!

There is no political will to do this in the USA, nor are the resources really lined up for it with major committments in Iraq and Afgnanistan ongoing.

Sadly, I think a combo of your idea, Pan, with Kukri's, is the only recipe that might work. Israel will kill comparitively few yanks, and with enough resources and time the FBI would eventually marginalize the more criminal/terroristic elements of Hamas etc. Of course, the whole thing would be a boon to other terrorist recruiting efforts elsewhere as we would be seen as reincarnating the Crusader kingdom. Ah, the joys of the Middle East.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Iraq II -- complete with having to fight incursions by our allies!

There is no political will to do this in the USA, nor are the resources really lined up for it with major committments in Iraq and Afgnanistan ongoing.

Sadly, I think a combo of your idea, Pan, with Kukri's, is the only recipe that might work. Israel will kill comparitively few yanks, and with enough resources and time the FBI would eventually marginalize the more criminal/terroristic elements of Hamas etc. Of course, the whole thing would be a boon to other terrorist recruiting efforts elsewhere as we would be seen as reincarnating the Crusader kingdom. Ah, the joys of the Middle East.

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The main problem with Iraq is the democratic BS I talked about. Everyone knows that the US will eventually leave, so they fight to get into position to control Iraq once they eventually do. So start by establishing that this isn't an effort to create a democracy in Palestine, which will be handed over to the Palestinians ASAP. The west, whichever body decides to take control, is there to stay. It is there because they don't trust the Palestinians to govern their country to their satisfaction. Would it boost terrorist recruiting efforts? Probably, but is the difference between that and existing recruiting efforts really worth the continuing instability?

So, just like our other two Mid-East ventures, then?

I don't think Hamas would go quietly, either.

Im sure there were some israeli's who blamed the israeli goverment for the rocket attacks of Hamas as well, unfortunately such people are minoritys in israel as well as palestine and they will blame the foriegn enemy over thier own bad goverments...

I'm sorry, but I see any possible US led invasion of Gaza as a huge debacle. Think of the press that would get - and the fact that we'd be getting ourselves into a very thorny situation.

CR

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Im sure there were some israeli's who blamed the israeli goverment for the rocket attacks of Hamas as well, unfortunately such people are minoritys in israel as well as palestine and they will blame the foriegn enemy over thier own bad goverments...

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let me get this straight:

not enough palestinians stood up to denounce hamas for launching rockets from their homes.
and
not enough israelies stood up to denounce Kadima for letting Hamas lauch rockets at their homes.

have i got that right?

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

So, just like our other two Mid-East ventures, then?

I don't think Hamas would go quietly, either.

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Too bad, but nothing that a police lockdown wouldn't be able to solve. Hold out the carrot of eventual integration into the EU, if this is an EU undertaking, or the US, if this is a US undertaking. This isn't a democratic adventure, to liberate the Palestinians from their tyrannical rulers. This is actual integration into the western world. Given what they've experienced so far, wouldn't this be a substantial enough carrot?

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Too bad, but nothing that a police lockdown wouldn't be able to solve. Hold out the carrot of eventual integration into the EU, if this is an EU undertaking, or the US, if this is a US undertaking. This isn't a democratic adventure, to liberate the Palestinians from their tyrannical rulers. This is actual integration into the western world. Given what they've experienced so far, wouldn't this be a substantial enough carrot?

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What the hell? This is about integrating Hamas in the western world????