Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

The focus on maple is Wolfy

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Originally Posted by Visor

The focus on maple is Wolfy

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how?

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Originally Posted by didistetter

how?

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Because people pushing there are reducing their scope to only her

See bennehs entrance today

It's focusing not around a larger picture of understanding the game but setting up then to take the heat today as a focal point of discussion

Today is going to be a black hole if we let it go that way

Lissa day and pzelda seem ok to me as I have said

I'm not sold on you being v but if enough people are saying they think otherwise I ain't ever gonna be able to get you killed

Maples not a bad wolf, them getting into the pants pissing argument with Annika is dumb if they think it will get them any chance of survival and they know that people ain't gonna give them clearance for it and certainly weren't D1

especially if rask is afk what's their endgame? How do they expect to win the game

Ender is whatever could easily be a wolf

Waza is not forgettable that's not what I said, I think they are ok

So I'm at you, ladd, benneh, ender

And there's definiteky potential for me to be misleading arctic but I can also see how they would come to their read on me and I think I understand it

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Originally Posted by Visor

2. ladd
4. didistetter
6. nebjiamn
7. Maple
8. Lissa
9. Arctic
10. waza
11. Taffy
12. Ender
13. annika
14. dyachei
15. pzelda

Thread generally thinks Lissa and pzelda are clear

I think decent chance dya is clear

I'm reversing path on arctic, believe they believed their group of three was v and was struggling to figure out who is actually pulling the strings and I fit that bill easily

Annika improved over the day phase and voted wolf

Taffy pr

Ender possible wolf but also played in a way that was low ev

Maple played in a low ev way

Waza honestly no super strong impression but seems ok

Stett y'all think is clear

Then who's left?

Wolves are ladd and benneh

Potential for fourth wolf which is possibly ender (or perhaps someone we are thread clearing to easily)

Thinking about arctica D1 and how eod played out

vote: nebjiamn

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if that's your poe why would you ever think i'm the correct first vote here lol

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Originally Posted by pzelda

Btw Is there a way to count my posts and to isolate players?

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@pzelda at the top of the page, click Search Thread -> Advanced Search

then in the User Name bar, type in whoever's username you want to ISO. if you type your own name, you can check how many posts you have in the thread so far (but it won't separate by day)

hope this helps! ^^ sorry if someone answered already, I haven't finished catching up yet

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Originally Posted by Visor

Because people pushing there are reducing their scope to only her

See bennehs entrance today

It's focusing not around a larger picture of understanding the game but setting up then to take the heat today as a focal point of discussion

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this is factually incorrect. can you actually read my post again? i don't think you comprehended it at all.

i think your judgement is clouded on the basis of a terrible starting point on maple (even if maple is town). i pretty clearly have a wider view of the game than just 'kill maple' but you seem to have taken that entire sod post and distilled it into where i revealed who my top wolf in a poe was, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a wider consideration of the game state and it is actually quite literally the opposite.

ladd and ender are good POEs in a world you don't want to consider maple but you're going off the deep end and actually getting lost in the sauce beyond that.

additionally, i think you are wrong about how the thread generally thinks lissa is clear? lissa and yourself are objectively (based off check in posts so far) the least cleared players off the rask wagon. i think there is definitely room for her to be wolf and i think its weird you are letting that be the basis for your lissa read

what are your actual reads idgi lol, you output most of these like you had to generate excuses you dont believe in

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Eighth Post - "It's not just that I disagree with your reads"
Ninth Post - "i think other players have been townier and i disagree with his reads"
(Also I have always hated "I disagree with your reads" as a wolfread because how often do two town get different reads on things? Very often. Even amongst good players.)

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@EnderWiggin you cut off the eighth post

he's saying "it's not just that I disagree with your reads, [it's that you haven't even looked in the direction of my reads]" basically; he's using it as emphasis

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Originally Posted by didistetter

uh hang on a sec lol

so @Maple you knew bombs were a thing.....

:inquisitive:

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gosh you are so townie lol

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

I was really frustrated at having to claim yesterday bc I thought we were giving the wolves extra kp but since they apparently don't have it I am rather happy with the situation bc now we can crowdsource my targets ~:grouphug:

I was initially going to do the right thing and holster N1 and possibly N2 bc my early reads are crap but given that I thought I might die I targeted Arctic last night. Seeing that Sunbae's rolecard says nothing about anticlaim it is now likely that Arctic is a PR who reasonably thought I was lying, but to me he looked like a wolf who went "we don't have an ability named anti-claim, this is a lying VT" and figured he could get me over.

I still think given how Arctic played D1 that the latter might be the case but I'm not going to push it bc if and when my bombs go off, either Arctic dies and we'll know or he's the one Sunbae died protecting (bc my bomb would've been redirected onto Sunbae and died with him) in which case he's town.

So we can solve around Arctic for the time being.

Taffy (2)

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someone else prob mentioned it but i think its reasonable that the town arsonist would get some sort of message about there being a counter to their night action given rask's role


but i also think its probably worth noting that in previous gemma games on the org though (i think it was a gemma game?) there were roles in the game that alluded to the existence of others that some people found kind of game breaking because it allowed someone to claim a role that didnt exist but feasibly should have given a prior PR flip

so ya

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@Totally not Taffy arctic already claimed NOT a PR so I think there may be some value to just igniting even if i think arctic is town, kinda in the same way you wouldn't heal a villager's poison. imo we should talk about a bit more since you are unlikely to survive past today given you are KP (unlss wolves have an RB)

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

someone else prob mentioned it but i think its reasonable that the town arsonist would get some sort of message about there being a counter to their night action given rask's role


but i also think its probably worth noting that in previous gemma games on the org though (i think it was a gemma game?) there were roles in the game that alluded to the existence of others that some people found kind of game breaking because it allowed someone to claim a role that didnt exist but feasibly should have given a prior PR flip

so ya

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@Totally not Taffy arctic already claimed NOT a PR so I think there may be some value to just igniting even if i think arctic is town, kinda in the same way you wouldn't heal a villager's poison. imo we should talk about a bit more since you are unlikely to survive past today given you are KP (unlss wolves have an RB)

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everyone should comment on this, not just taffy

Benneh isnt a wolf

Enders post wrt arctic i didnt like, seems like he started from the conclusion (which i guess is somewhat true lol) and then is trying to justify it vs giving arctic a genujne read. I am not good at reading ender tho

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

if that's your poe why would you ever think i'm the correct first vote here lol

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Because it gets the people going

Lol don’t ignite Arctic

Vote:lissa

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Originally Posted by waza

Vote:lissa

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Why lissa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zTbVRPh5EI

:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 2 - Votes from post 673 through 815

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
1	Lissa	waza (17)
1	Maple	didistetter (21)
1	Arctic	nebjiamn (22)
1	nebjiamn	Visor (9)
9	Not Voting	Arctic (15), EnderWiggin (7), Lissa (5), Maple (7), Totally not Taffy (4), annika (6), dyachei (2), ladd (15), pzelda (10)

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Originally Posted by Visor

Why lissa

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idk lol

u/ladd were my designated tinfoils if taffy seemed town

u seemed towny enough last couple of pages and errrr im not worried about ladd cos i know people are just gonna hound his ass all game regardless of alignment

maple seems fine enough ig

ender is townreading me all game and i like it, doesnt neccessarily make him town though

so it really just boils down to if i think theres 2 wolves in that pool......and im like errrr maybe? but im not really convinced it has to be the case either, and plus i think most of those names should get got before me lmao, unless someone gets hell tunneled but thats on them not me if that happens

so yaaa this is a big lead up to a very disappointing finish where i just say im shrugging and trying to aim for the wolf i lose to now rather than later before its too late, not convinced it has to be lissa but im just testing the waters. mostly just boiled down to me looking back at eod votes, trying to think what wolves would be doing and what their wincons would be. lissas vote on rask seemed pretty random so yah i voted there and will see what happens or how i feel in the morning or after ive read the game some more

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Originally Posted by didistetter

:wowee:

why?

and maple did not defend you. Please read back eod. Maple's focus was entirely OMGUSing annika and shading arctic.

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visor be so fr what

why is ben wolf if your other reads are "thread thinks lissa and pzelda are clear" "yall think stett is clear" "waza is forgettable" "maple and ender are playing low ev"

what do YOU think

how does ben's play fit wolf agenda?

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When did I shade arctic hello?

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Originally Posted by didistetter

does...

does maple

claiming bomb inventor d1

when we have a flipped wolf bomb diffuser
and taffy claiming bomb arso

not seem sus to you at all???????

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So you're legitimately missing the part

Where waza is there

Whom I role swapped bomb inventor with last game?

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Originally Posted by Lissa

i didn't spend much time alive in pokemash lol i don't really remember a whole lot of the lategame events

just peeked a deep wolf and died ez

hey we were both villas in hsr right before that too that's not tooooo long

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Originally Posted by Maple

good point new plan

hardclaim bomb inventor

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You can't be fr rn lol

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Originally Posted by waza

idk lol

u/ladd were my designated tinfoils if taffy seemed town

u seemed towny enough last couple of pages and errrr im not worried about ladd cos i know people are just gonna hound his ass all game regardless of alignment

maple seems fine enough ig

ender is townreading me all game and i like it, doesnt neccessarily make him town though

so it really just boils down to if i think theres 2 wolves in that pool......and im like errrr maybe? but im not really convinced it has to be the case either, and plus i think most of those names should get got before me lmao, unless someone gets hell tunneled but thats on them not me if that happens

so yaaa this is a big lead up to a very disappointing finish where i just say im shrugging and trying to aim for the wolf i lose to now rather than later before its too late, not convinced it has to be lissa but im just testing the waters. mostly just boiled down to me looking back at eod votes, trying to think what wolves would be doing and what their wincons would be. lissas vote on rask seemed pretty random so yah i voted there and will see what happens or how i feel in the morning or after ive read the game some more

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ig one of the things with ladd is that for me to believe hes a wolf i have to accept thats hes played against his own wincon during this game lmao

hes a smart gui, probs one of the smartest i met on fm so i somewhat expect him to be aware of how certain things would play out if hes a wolf

and if hes a wolf that means hes townsided unnecessarily to his own detriment at times (im going off vague memory so ill need to fact check)

like if ben is town which i think he is, then lads shielded me ben sunbae from getting heat when we were vulnerable. ok sure i somewhat forced him into townreading me so that doesnt count as much, and if ben is town hes the type of town that i imagine anyone with tmi would have a really hard time trying to justify a sr on

but with sunbae, there was a moment where sunbae was getting alota heat, and ladd spoke out against it and has been vocal against pushing the taffy wagon. the thing is though, if ladds a wolf hes well aware that hes on a timer, and that people have vocally expressed if taffy is town they'll push him. so its in ladds benefit to delay the taffy flip as long as he can,rrather then reinforce it. so for example when haru gets pushed, ladd is much better off just doing literally anything other than what he did lmao.

tbf one of the last times i tried to apply a wolf strategy read on someone it failed (twice) but i dont remember many other times its backfired. im not outright clearing ladd and will obv keep an open eye, its just i cant really figure out what his game plan would be as wolf, i can make a similar case for maple albeit i find it less convincing so i probs wont unless i feel stronger about it

btw i mean the player twice shrunk when i said (twice)

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

[/B]
everyone should comment on this, not just taffy

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Bg is dead so it's likely use it or lose it

However 1x kp puts us on Evens, effectively turning a vote into a sleep and a dead arctic

From taffy pov igniting is optimal tonight, most lokely

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

@Totally not Taffy arctic already claimed NOT a PR so I think there may be some value to just igniting even if i think arctic is town, kinda in the same way you wouldn't heal a villager's poison. imo we should talk about a bit more since you are unlikely to survive past today given you are KP (unlss wolves have an RB)

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everyone should comment on this, not just taffy

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hmm
my thoughts on this: I think Arctic is very likely town personally. and igniting doesn't really save us a kill, unless wolves have KP/town has more KP, because it goes to even numbers and we'd need to vote Sleep like Maple said

however, I do understand that Arctic might be voted later. so I propose treating it like another elimination; if people want Arctic to get ignited because they think he's mafia, not because it's optimal, then they should say that

cus again, idt it's optimal if it goes to even numbers. it doesn't give or lose an elimination unless there's more PR stuff to worry about
@Maple how is it optimal from Taffy's PoV?

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Originally Posted by didistetter

@ladd what do you make of the way lissa has posted wrt your slot, and her amenability to me suggesting a eod flashwagon on afk ladd for no reason other than someone claiming pr and dipping?

im kinda struggling with that dynamic, especially considering she +1d me telling arctic to not lim taffy, but seemed willing to flash an afk who frankly had no business being a d1 wagon

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@didistetter can u link me this pls n ty

vote:visor

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Originally Posted by annika

hmm
my thoughts on this: I think Arctic is very likely town personally. and igniting doesn't really save us a kill, unless wolves have KP/town has more KP, because it goes to even numbers and we'd need to vote Sleep like Maple said

however, I do understand that Arctic might be voted later. so I propose treating it like another elimination; if people want Arctic to get ignited because they think he's mafia, not because it's optimal, then they should say that

cus again, idt it's optimal if it goes to even numbers. it doesn't give or lose an elimination unless there's more PR stuff to worry about
@Maple how is it optimal from Taffy's PoV?

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Taffy is town kp role. She wolf reads arctic and believes it'll plausibly flip wolf. From that PoV it is better to more efficiently use the ignite because the role will not get further value.

It's effectively a situation of "taffy poisoned artic last night, but also holds a heal"

And you generally just let poisons kill when made by q villager, specifically due to kill effeciency reasons.

All that said, it really is something you can go either way on.

that might actually not matter if Taffy's bombs going off is mandatory though (this kinda feels like it might be the case based on how it's a bomber rather than an arso)

in which case rip Arcy

if that's how it works @Totally not Taffy I'd bomb Maple :3
if you don't wanna since you still TR her, hmm. it might be worth just killing the counterwagon?

that kinda sucks though lol because I do think all the people that will be counterwagons today like Ladd/waza are v. I mean personally I pref Maple so that's my vote, if youre taking votes (I might change my mind today in which case I'll ping you w/ it, but this is just what I'm thinking atm)

WOW she hates me sob

Completely random thought - ender sounds like someone id enjoy drinking beer(s) with



I wouldnt kill arctic

I am still confused by some taffy stuff (why soft pr in your first post if u think/know there is anticlaim, why even soft pr as a pr) but their claim should just be clearing/self resolving i think


Visor/lissa is a fun team thats prolly not real...but would be fun :curtain:

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Originally Posted by waza

ig one of the things with ladd is that for me to believe hes a wolf i have to accept thats hes played against his own wincon during this game lmao

hes a smart gui, probs one of the smartest i met on fm so i somewhat expect him to be aware of how certain things would play out if hes a wolf

and if hes a wolf that means hes townsided unnecessarily to his own detriment at times (im going off vague memory so ill need to fact check)

like if ben is town which i think he is, then lads shielded me ben sunbae from getting heat when we were vulnerable. ok sure i somewhat forced him into townreading me so that doesnt count as much, and if ben is town hes the type of town that i imagine anyone with tmi would have a really hard time trying to justify a sr on

but with sunbae, there was a moment where sunbae was getting alota heat, and ladd spoke out against it and has been vocal against pushing the taffy wagon. the thing is though, if ladds a wolf hes well aware that hes on a timer, and that people have vocally expressed if taffy is town they'll push him. so its in ladds benefit to delay the taffy flip as long as he can,rrather then reinforce it. so for example when haru gets pushed, ladd is much better off just doing literally anything other than what he did lmao.

tbf one of the last times i tried to apply a wolf strategy read on someone it failed (twice) but i dont remember many other times its backfired. im not outright clearing ladd and will obv keep an open eye, its just i cant really figure out what his game plan would be as wolf, i can make a similar case for maple albeit i find it less convincing so i probs wont unless i feel stronger about it

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waza, i thikn i'm starting to see a pattern with you and I think you value people calling townreads a way of townsiding. i won't say you value it too highly, its more just me realizing what you value

but IMHO, those kinds of takes are silly for a wolf because ladd has to have townreads on people?

lets go through who you mentioned:

1) he townread me. he gets 0 credit for this, he would even tell you, he has never pushed me incorrectly or failed to clear me correctly. i have fooled him a few times, but the only times he's ever really been sus of me were when I was wolfing. i legitimately entered this game knowing near 100% certainty ladd would townread me regardless of his own alignment. in fact, i know he knows this meta so well, I was actually pre-emptively wondering if this would be the game he cashes in on the meta to try to sus me a bit (if he's wolf) and that's the only reason i wouldnt say is was absolutely 100% certain instead of near 100%

also i was never vulnerable day 1 lol.

tl;dr ladd sorta has to TR me until the one day he cashes in on the meta and we'll have to see if i'm keen on that or not, i was never in danger, he shouldn't really get towncred for 'townsiding' by tring me

re: sunbae -- i think you have a valid point, sunbae def was vulnerable

re: you (waza) -- i don't really know how vulnerable you were? you had lots of defenders besides ladd, similar to the way i did. neither you or i was ever a serious wagon during the day.

if i add these 3 reads up i don't think he was 'townsiding to his own detriment' in the worlds he is a wolf? he was pushing taffy all game while this happened?

i just sorta disagree with your assessment that because ladd is on a 'timer' that he wouldn't then push for taffy to die because then it puts the spotlight on him. that is literally his MO quite often BECAUSE he's on a timer.

i don't really think you can say he's played against his wincon if he's wolf. i think killing taffy d1 and getting 2 PR claims out of day 1 would have been excellent for w!ladd but we got lucky a wolf died d1 instead.

i still feel like a lot of his reads were non-collaborative in ways that feel mor elike his wolf self than not. i'm not deadset on him being wolf--i do think if he's town he's played a pretty good game for identifying lots of towns correctly, but i don't think its absurd to have him in the middle of the POE given the current game state and where his wolf reads landed

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Originally Posted by ladd

Completely random thought - ender sounds like someone id enjoy drinking beer(s) with



I wouldnt kill arctic

I am still confused by some taffy stuff (why soft pr in your first post if u think/know there is anticlaim, why even soft pr as a pr) but their claim should just be clearing/self resolving i think


Visor/lissa is a fun team thats prolly not real...but would be fun :curtain:

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yea its odd. also calling it a flavor claim specifically? i agree it should be self resolving--but back to my point a few posts ago, is there a chance gemma runs the rask role with a wolf arsonist/bombplanter?

honestly I think that's something I might do in a game and gemma's roles are pretty non-standard + theres precedent of the inclusion of misleading roles/counter-roles

i wont lie i'm inclined to sheep my early inclination on maple + annika, especially as annika digs in deeper in the tunnel

"isn't playing +EV" isn't an inspiring towncase for someone who just came off 2(?) exhausting wolf rands and isn't being townie anyway

vote: maple

im curious to see how reads on ender/visor/ladd develop tho

Annika where you at

visor what are your thoughts on lissa's eod?

stett called out her vote on ladd as somewhat suspicious, what is your take on that?

and just any general thoughts on lissa beyond that, i kind of expect you to have the most apt take (besides dya and myself probly) on her and you kind of just shrug cleared her in your larger post

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

visor what are your thoughts on lissa's eod?

stett called out her vote on ladd as somewhat suspicious, what is your take on that?

and just any general thoughts on lissa beyond that, i kind of expect you to have the most apt take (besides dya and myself probly) on her and you kind of just shrug cleared her in your larger post

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I got some thoughts but probably won't be able to share to a level I am comfortable with until tomorrow

On a general sense there are two worlds of thought regarding the rask vote

Lissa is more than capable of bussing a dead wolf, and it's impossible to defend rask, so I don't see it as super clearing especially because she literally just did a similar move

But it should also be relatively simple to just not say anything re rask and it's not like others were talking about him

It's something I need to ruminate on a bit, I tended to agree with sunbaes read there and probably still do, but want to dot some is and cross some ts first

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Originally Posted by Visor

Annika where you at

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wrt to Maple: I've read over both your and Lissa's reasons for doubting she's a wolf here, and I get it, but it's not quite convincing to me. possibly because it's a meta thing and I'm not too familiar with Maple

from my PoV she did kinda push wolf agenda though, because I was a viable wagon that Lissa was voting on (at least) and Ben projected a strong-ish wolfread on me for a while before postcapping; she could reasonably think that push could go through at EoD

the main thing in her favour is that she didn't vote Arctic, but... FMPOV it's like townreading her for townsiding *at all*. she didn't do anything to defend his wagon at the very least. she also didn't do much to defend Taffy besides say "how are we going Taf here" after she claimed PR lol

I think giving her cred for not voting Taffy is like insane imo she was LITERALLY a PR claim asdgfkldashgkj and Maple PoE'd her before the claim

there's not much else you can do to wolfside at EoD besides push on Taffy (a claimed PR), so it's really just that she didn't vote Arctic. and that would've been at odds with her read list in 476 anyway ^^;

imo she just exhausted her options when both of the people at the bottom of her list claimed PR, she was stuck voting the third. maybe you can argue "why didn't she bus?" but meh that's WIFOM

(ftr this is just me explaining why the reasons to TR her aren't convincing to me, not that anything I'm mentioning here is explicitly wolfie—it goes either way, I just have other reasons to SR her)

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in terms of my other reads... I still think Ben's v, and I've kinda been feeling better about Ender recently based on his wolfread of Arctic. Stett's/Waza's/Taffy's posting has kinda just reaffirmed my previous reads on them, so not much has rly changed for me besides Ender xD

Who do you want to kill besides maple

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Originally Posted by annika

@EnderWiggin you cut off the eighth post

he's saying "it's not just that I disagree with your reads, [it's that you haven't even looked in the direction of my reads]" basically; he's using it as emphasis

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For him to reduce it to just disagree with reads when asked about it then just feels reductive.

Otherwise the original post wasn't actually something he cared about from Ladd and he just threw it out there.

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Originally Posted by ladd

Benneh isnt a wolf

Enders post wrt arctic i didnt like, seems like he started from the conclusion (which i guess is somewhat true lol) and then is trying to justify it vs giving arctic a genujne read. I am not good at reading ender tho

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First three points were things I noted prior to having any real read.

I will full acknowledge I was primed towards wolfreading him by the end of that list of posts.

I do notice you have given 0 thought on my initial point at any point I've brought it up.

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Originally Posted by Visor

Who do you want to kill besides maple

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:3

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

idk actually, I think everyone's townie. Ender was the third in my solve yesterday but I'm not feeling it anymore

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

[/B]
everyone should comment on this, not just taffy

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I think they should. Doesn't feel like that much of a debate or discussion so much as an obvious route.

But I'm also classically not good with PRs so shrug.

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Originally Posted by ladd

Completely random thought - ender sounds like someone id enjoy drinking beer(s) with



I wouldnt kill arctic

I am still confused by some taffy stuff (why soft pr in your first post if u think/know there is anticlaim, why even soft pr as a pr) but their claim should just be clearing/self resolving i think


Visor/lissa is a fun team thats prolly not real...but would be fun :curtain:

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I am not even sure how you got to that thought but maybe. I tend to hate regular beer in a very unaustralian fashion though. I'm a cider person.

I buy Taffy's claim pretty well rn.

I think my POE is pretty much Maple/Lissa/Ladd/(Arctic)

I've put my Arctic stuff out there, if no one agrees with me I'll shrug and drop it for now because I don't have any way I can state it more persuasively and if everyone is saying I'm wrong then maybe I'm wrong.

Ladd gets added because I don't really feel like he's progressed in a way that makes me think town, but it's like ~not a strong read.

I still think Maple's narrow focus/small footprint EOD is very wolfy. I will happily champion this.

Lissa is just someone I think has been wolfy over-all. But probably is in the Arctic treatment in terms of at least two or three people have said what I was suspecting is just normal Lissa. That being said I don't think their EOD was great and they haven't done anything I find super towny so they can exist in a POE.

If I'm misclearing anyone atm it's probably in Dya (Because my ability to read them has always been kinda shoddy. I think I'm improving in the last 2/3 games we've played but wouldn't shock me if I've read em wrong.) or Waza (Because the snow leopard is tricksy and speaks sparkly words. I've definitely been wooed by them before so I tend to keep some tinfoil in the closet.)

Actually maybe Benneh is someone I've not thought about.

I'll reread after I sleep.

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

@didistetter
First post - This is the read on me that I've been harping on about. Makes a shade-centric observation. "Idk if this is uncharitable" and then basically suggests I'm posting differently "flavoured" to when he was wolf and he + DZ voted me out when I was town.

Second post - I call him out on it and he then admits he "Knew it was uncharitable" and intentionally tries to point out how he wasn't really pushing it as if that's a defense. (Which 1. puts lie to the "Idk if it is uncharitable" line and 2. if you're shading someone usually the point is that you're trying to make OTHER PEOPLE be the direct attackers while you have just pushed it subtly in the background.)

Third post - Shading Visor after Visor is generally townread (Visor has in recent times been potential miselim bait due to not caring about putting effort in, something I vibe with strongly.) and also backing down off me after I have shown my teeth.

Fourth post - This one feels like trying to poke another to a conclusion that he's annoyed they haven't reached but this one is ~meh. I'm mostly including it because he makes a deal about someone's alignment with his reads. Which is relevant for the follow up:

Fifth Post - Because when Dya pointed out how Arctic is sussing her despite having generally aligned reads his reaction is to:
Sixth Post - ONCE AGAIN the person he has poe'd/shaded/sussed comes back at him for how odd it is or how uncharitable it is and the response is to placate. "I don't really sus you tbh" instead of the response to me, but I felt like it was an echo.

Seventh Post - Now instead of "Feeling like there's a difference between my shitposting last time" he's now backed down to "I just am saying I could see myself shrug yeeting you cause idk any way to read you." The backpeddling to seem reasonable is the real reason I sunk my teeth into this and don't want to let go.

Eighth Post - "It's not just that I disagree with your reads"
Ninth Post - "i think other players have been townier and i disagree with his reads"
(Also I have always hated "I disagree with your reads" as a wolfread because how often do two town get different reads on things? Very often. Even amongst good players.)

This is mostly included because I feel like it fits with the placation to the person he's sussing while just straight up shading them to others with buzzword statements.

As for his EOD, It basically is mainly the following:
1. A weird request for Taffy to find wolves or die
2. A immediate bad reaction to the claim
3. "I don't believe taffy at all but 2 of my biggest suspects are voting her so idk"
4. Waffles around then puts down "I'd vote any of taffy/maple/ladd/rask" (Note: He does not vote Rask)
5. Has been waffling around on the claim but as soon as he starts getting votes instantly goes nuclear on trying to revitalise it against Taffy

I don't think that EOD is particularly wolfy tbh. It's kinda midline for me. The Rask note is like hindsight not ~great but also not that damning either.

My point is idk why that seems to be universally townread.

But again, it's very possible I'm miles deep in the tunnel and not seeing things clearly.

I definitely can get that way.

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I thought your read was based on one thing that you just didn't want to let go? I don't really hate the things that you're actually calling out here like, on principle, but I'm more confused about why you now have this whole case on the rest of my behaviour when it was just one thing you didn't like

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

I was really frustrated at having to claim yesterday bc I thought we were giving the wolves extra kp but since they apparently don't have it I am rather happy with the situation bc now we can crowdsource my targets ~:grouphug:

I was initially going to do the right thing and holster N1 and possibly N2 bc my early reads are crap but given that I thought I might die I targeted Arctic last night. Seeing that Sunbae's rolecard says nothing about anticlaim it is now likely that Arctic is a PR who reasonably thought I was lying, but to me he looked like a wolf who went "we don't have an ability named anti-claim, this is a lying VT" and figured he could get me over.

I still think given how Arctic played D1 that the latter might be the case but I'm not going to push it bc if and when my bombs go off, either Arctic dies and we'll know or he's the one Sunbae died protecting (bc my bomb would've been redirected onto Sunbae and died with him) in which case he's town.

So we can solve around Arctic for the time being.

Taffy (2)

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Wdym when your bombs go off? You don't have to kill me, do you?

I.. am not sure how much I believe this. Mainly because if you believed there was anticlaim then why would you blatantly soft in your first post? And why believe there was anticlaim in the first place? Secondly because in a 15'er, unless there are 4 wolves (which just based on how the game vibes as towny, I don't think is likely) with 3 wolves there is almost no way town has KP and if they do then wolves absolutely do too so... where is it? For that reason I don't really consider your claim in itself AI and I'm instead going off of your behaviour around it, and the anticlaim stuff + voting me and dipping is just.. kinda hard for me to reconcile as genuine. But I do like how you brought light to the fact I am probably a PR today

Since you have doused me, yeah, I am a PR. Specifically I'm the even night version of Sunbae's role. I was not informed about any anticlaim. So I will in fact self-resolve and you should not kill me. Especially because it does not get us a ML

I'm not at all convinced you're town but I feel like I've been outplayed either way, weirdly. Claiming to have ttargeted specifically me after I already claimed I wasn't a PR has put me in a pretty bad position (lmao) because.. if you are a wolf planning to use your role leashed to whoever town wants you to kill then killing me is a perfect way of killing a villager without being outted, because I was in everyone's PoE already

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

Wdym when your bombs go off? You don't have to kill me, do you?

I.. am not sure how much I believe this. Mainly because if you believed there was anticlaim then why would you blatantly soft in your first post? And why believe there was anticlaim in the first place? Secondly because in a 15'er, unless there are 4 wolves (which just based on how the game vibes as towny, I don't think is likely) with 3 wolves there is almost no way town has KP and if they do then wolves absolutely do too so... where is it? For that reason I don't really consider your claim in itself AI and I'm instead going off of your behaviour around it, and the anticlaim stuff + voting me and dipping is just.. kinda hard for me to reconcile as genuine. But I do like how you brought light to the fact I am probably a PR today

Since you have doused me, yeah, I am a PR. Specifically I'm the even night version of Sunbae's role. I was not informed about any anticlaim. So I will in fact self-resolve and you should not kill me. Especially because it does not get us a ML

I'm not at all convinced you're town but I feel like I've been outplayed either way, weirdly. Claiming to have ttargeted specifically me after I already claimed I wasn't a PR has put me in a pretty bad position (lmao) because.. if you are a wolf planning to use your role leashed to whoever town wants you to kill then killing me is a perfect way of killing a villager without being outted, because I was in everyone's PoE already

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lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

Wdym when your bombs go off? You don't have to kill me, do you?

I.. am not sure how much I believe this. Mainly because if you believed there was anticlaim then why would you blatantly soft in your first post? And why believe there was anticlaim in the first place? Secondly because in a 15'er, unless there are 4 wolves (which just based on how the game vibes as towny, I don't think is likely) with 3 wolves there is almost no way town has KP and if they do then wolves absolutely do too so... where is it? For that reason I don't really consider your claim in itself AI and I'm instead going off of your behaviour around it, and the anticlaim stuff + voting me and dipping is just.. kinda hard for me to reconcile as genuine. But I do like how you brought light to the fact I am probably a PR today

Since you have doused me, yeah, I am a PR. Specifically I'm the even night version of Sunbae's role. I was not informed about any anticlaim. So I will in fact self-resolve and you should not kill me. Especially because it does not get us a ML

I'm not at all convinced you're town but I feel like I've been outplayed either way, weirdly. Claiming to have ttargeted specifically me after I already claimed I wasn't a PR has put me in a pretty bad position (lmao) because.. if you are a wolf planning to use your role leashed to whoever town wants you to kill then killing me is a perfect way of killing a villager without being outted, because I was in everyone's PoE already

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her role has to exist for Rask's role to make sense though, right? like at least some kind of Town Bomber should exist unless that's a 3p role ??? but 3p makes no sense for a 15er lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by annika

her role has to exist for Rask's role to make sense though, right? like at least some kind of Town Bomber should exist unless that's a 3p role ??? but 3p makes no sense for a 15er lmao

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3p makes plenty of sense in a 15er

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i can't find it but i'm actually dead re: ladd's post to arctic "that's exactly what a pr would say" lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

someone else prob mentioned it but i think its reasonable that the town arsonist would get some sort of message about there being a counter to their night action given rask's role


but i also think its probably worth noting that in previous gemma games on the org though (i think it was a gemma game?) there were roles in the game that alluded to the existence of others that some people found kind of game breaking because it allowed someone to claim a role that didnt exist but feasibly should have given a prior PR flip

so ya

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@Totally not Taffy arctic already claimed NOT a PR so I think there may be some value to just igniting even if i think arctic is town, kinda in the same way you wouldn't heal a villager's poison. imo we should talk about a bit more since you are unlikely to survive past today given you are KP (unlss wolves have an RB)

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In a closed setup without a flipped protective, this isn't an unreasonable take. But in the context of this game I think that you arguing for Taffy to ignite me is pretty wolfy. We aren't getting a doc save this game, clearly, so we aren't getting any MLs back. For this reason, killing me doesn't gain a ML, it is basically no different from just voting me out today. And so you are basically advocating that we waste a ML on me, someone you think is town.

I am kinda coming around to you being a wolf if Taffy isn't. I think Visor was villagery today and your responses to him felt lawyery

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maple

Bg is dead so it's likely use it or lose it

However 1x kp puts us on Evens, effectively turning a vote into a sleep and a dead arctic

From taffy pov igniting is optimal tonight, most lokely

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You recognize that a town protective is dead so we aren't getting a ML back and thus killing me is effectively the same as voting me out and yet you think I am a villager and you are still advocating for her to kill me

We can probably put this guy in the bin too

--

For the same reason, but taking the opposite stance, I think ladd is town now, regardless of what Taffy is. I'm not considering him anymore

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

In a closed setup without a flipped protective, this isn't an unreasonable take. But in the context of this game I think that you arguing for Taffy to ignite me is pretty wolfy. We aren't getting a doc save this game, clearly, so we aren't getting any MLs back. For this reason, killing me doesn't gain a ML, it is basically no different from just voting me out today. And so you are basically advocating that we waste a ML on me, someone you think is town.

I am kinda coming around to you being a wolf if Taffy isn't. I think Visor was villagery today and your responses to him felt lawyery

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i don't think you understand mechanics at all, like even a little bit, so i won't engage with you on why killing you when you were claimed not-pr was potentially correct

anyway, you should explain why i'm ever playing eod the way i did while postcapped. not for me, but because I think if you reread eod with the knowledge that i didn't want you or taffy or sunbae or annika to die anymore, which is apparent in my votes IMO, i should literally be the most obvious villager in the game lol

@Totally not Taffy can you claim whether you ignite when you die or if you are able to choose when to ignite

If it is the latter then do not ignite me, obviously. I can prevent you dying tonight if I don't get roleblocked, which can give you another douse

I hope you can clarify this sooner than before eod when people have used up all of their posts

And while I'm here, given my claim, I want other people to make it clear that Taffy should not ignite me if they have a choice and should be treated as outted if she does. Because wolf!Taffy using this role tailored to town and taking away 1 ML while just shrugging it off as an "oopsie well he was POE" anyway when my claim is resolving is the exact avenue she can take here as a wolf

if there is a misclear of the somewhat universal TRs, i think it is in the dya/pzelda realm and not the annika/stetts. i don't know how much i think that's true, but i think its more true than the wolves being in like visor? maybe lissa? idk will think

thinking about waza's own eod vis a vis what i just said @ arcy, i would probably add him into the near locks too cause of the way he was unvoting to communicate. i initially weighted his vote on taffy more than those, but i think his answer was pretty good and i believe it so i think his actions leading up to the vote outweigh the vote itself

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

You recognize that a town protective is dead so we aren't getting a ML back and thus killing me is effectively the same as voting me out and yet you think I am a villager and you are still advocating for her to kill me

We can probably put this guy in the bin too

--

For the same reason, but taking the opposite stance, I think ladd is town now, regardless of what Taffy is. I'm not considering him anymore

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lol

tbc i think dya has been towny when available, but i think ladd oversells the post about sunbae they made.

dya is a killer who pockets and pushes friends like anyone else as wolf. i think ladd coming to the conclusion dya is town off that post but being sus of their initial posting is quite weird iyam. they were findable as town based off how they entered, not how they talked about sunbae after voting him

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

i don't think you understand mechanics at all, like even a little bit, so i won't engage with you on why killing you when you were claimed not-pr was potentially correct

anyway, you should explain why i'm ever playing eod the way i did while postcapped. not for me, but because I think if you reread eod with the knowledge that i didn't want you or taffy or sunbae or annika to die anymore, which is apparent in my votes IMO, i should literally be the most obvious villager in the game lol

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I don't see how what I am saying is wrong. I am open to seeing your perspective if you can explain to me what makes it optimal to kill me there, given that it is for all intents and purposes using up one of our MLs on someone you townread. But it's difficult to engage where I am jut being told I am wrong and can't understand why.

I am not super interested in what happened at EOD anymore. With an afk wolf being wagoned and neither me nor Taffy dying (regardless of what Taffy is), it is much more plausible to me that the wolves were townsiding in the latter part of the day. Either by defending the alternatives to Rask, voting Rask, or both. You cannot make a convincing case for anyone being mafia based on EOD except for Lissa (if Taffy is a wolf, but if she isn't, then ???) so clearing you based on this doesn't seem sound to me.

And with the dead weight cut after day 1, wolves are presumably not looking to lose another. And if they did in fact actively take part in killing Rask, they are explicitly looking to use that cred up, which is why you and Maple advocating for Taffy to kill me rang alarm bells. I'm not sure it's very likely both of you are wolves, however. So I'll have to think

im highly tilted due to non-game stuff and its really affecting my wim rn

imagine i get a second wind later in the phase

looking at rask's role again, 3p arso seems entirely plausible itg, thats a lot of util to counter 1 role

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maple

im highly tilted due to non-game stuff and its really affecting my wim rn

imagine i get a second wind later in the phase

looking at rask's role again, 3p arso seems entirely plausible itg, thats a lot of util to counter 1 role

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Pat pat

Come back when you feel better. I want you to take a stance on who you think we should actually kill today, if possible

I am also off for now (probably to get high, but we shall see)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

@Totally not Taffy arctic already claimed NOT a PR so I think there may be some value to just igniting even if i think arctic is town, kinda in the same way you wouldn't heal a villager's poison. imo we should talk about a bit more since you are unlikely to survive past today given you are KP (unlss wolves have an RB)

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But Benneh I really want to plant more bombs :laugh4:

You are correct it might be the mechanically optimal play but several ppl have now said they think Arctic is town and well, I'd rather let him live if he is

Quote:

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Originally Posted by annika

that might actually not matter if Taffy's bombs going off is mandatory though (this kinda feels like it might be the case based on how it's a bomber rather than an arso)

in which case rip Arcy

if that's how it works @Totally not Taffy I'd bomb Maple :3
if you don't wanna since you still TR her, hmm. it might be worth just killing the counterwagon?

that kinda sucks though lol because I do think all the people that will be counterwagons today like Ladd/waza are v. I mean personally I pref Maple so that's my vote, if youre taking votes (I might change my mind today in which case I'll ping you w/ it, but this is just what I'm thinking atm)

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I very much enjoy the input thank you, that's what I meant with "crowdsourcing" my targets

I do think Maple is town but both you and Stett are stronger players than I am
otoh I expect that if Maple's town she's very much become part of wolves' wincon atp so I'm a bit leery of the two strong pushes and neither of you are exploring many other options I feel

Taffy (5)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

I don't see how what I am saying is wrong. I am open to seeing your perspective if you can explain to me what makes it optimal to kill me there, given that it is for all intents and purposes using up one of our MLs on someone you townread. But it's difficult to engage where I am jut being told I am wrong and can't understand why.

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i feel like you have claimed the even night protective and you think that this was some revelatory insight that this role could exist

so the idea you are proposing that me and maple are wolfy for suggesting using town killing power is correct because a town protective flipped and we won't get a mislim back is wrong for those of us that are mechanically inclined and paying attention, ducy?

i won't even go into why this is correct from the point of view that taffy is a potentially confirmed town who has killing utility and you are (were) not lock clear at the time of those posts, so even if i am townleaning you, i cannot town clear you, and yes, even IF we didn't get a mislim back, that is still often correct because town used KP going to waste is... a waste.

i think your judgement here is biased and clouded by the fact that you are the other town protective and taffy's alleged douse. you act like i have been advocating for you to still be ignited since you re-claimed and i have not. you specifically claimed VT like 2 pages ago, or did you forget?

Quote:

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I am not super interested in what happened at EOD anymore. With an afk wolf being wagoned and neither me nor Taffy dying (regardless of what Taffy is), it is much more plausible to me that the wolves were townsiding in the latter part of the day. Either by defending the alternatives to Rask, voting Rask, or both. You cannot make a convincing case for anyone being mafia based on EOD except for Lissa (if Taffy is a wolf, but if she isn't, then ???) so clearing you based on this doesn't seem sound to me.

And with the dead weight cut after day 1, wolves are presumably not looking to lose another. And if they did in fact actively take part in killing Rask, they are explicitly looking to use that cred up, which is why you and Maple advocating for Taffy to kill me rang alarm bells. I'm not sure it's very likely both of you are wolves, however. So I'll have to think

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i think its very likely a much simpler: the wolves were afk or pushing annika/taffy/you. its literally that simple.

rask was a wolf, he was afk
ladd fits as a wolf this game, he was afk
maple fits as a wolf this game, they were pushing annika
ender fits as a wolf this game, he was pushing you

i don't understand why you think the wolves had to be in the actives or the ones actually driving wagons. it is much more likely eod just plays out the way it did because towns were active and defending other towns before settling on a literal last minute cfd on rask that only a few of us could have possibly reacted to

When I saw Rask flipped wolf I remembered this conversation Benneh and Lissa had (I've truncated them to only the relevant parts)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

by the way, i had a think in my car on the drive home and i'm going to be annoyed but more understanding of waza's play today if we find out he's like, in a neighborhood with a few people up to and including rask, and that's why he chose to play today with the vigilance of a thousand suns against a zero poster while he defends a bunch of other people without any reason while placating to several other people in the thread before he could have any real substantial read on said people at any point

if that's not the case and he's just punting around as whatever he is then ill also be annoyed but less understanding

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lissa

Yeah waza's posting around rask is weird unless he's... exactly in a neighborhood with rask lol you're not wrong

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And I think I misunderstood what Benneh was saying bc to me "vigilance" means "watchfulness" and therefore "being protective of someone" and Happy was not protective of Rask at all (all Happy posts about Rask up till that point in spoiler)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

How many in rask ladd taffy dya?

Hopefully not more than 1 because these are some of my fav people to be town with but I’m getting an inkling it’s maybe 2 just by rng and stuff

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

Vote:raskilnikov

I need the towncred so I gotta bus u bronana

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

All wolves should be in
Ender v but my weakest v


Rask sunbae maple lissa arctic taffy dya Zelda

Damn this is a longer list than I envisioned before I typed this out lol

Oh well atleast rask is meowted so that’s one less to worry about

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

I think an ender vote will probs be the least info providing vote lol, especially since he’s probs v imo

I get why you might do it, and if part of it I’m guessing is the hopes it will drive him to be more productive or readable fypo. But from memory I don’t think it’s gonna work, he usually has his mind made up on whatever meme and gimmick he’s gonna do d1 and tends to stick to it but eventually later on in the game after a couple of days starts to pick up and play properly.

One might call me a hypocrite since my vote is on rask, but the difference is that rask is a wolf and meowted

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by waza

That post is mostly for others not for me, I’m committed to bussing rask today lol

I do have Arctic related thoughts but I wanna sit down and properly digest his walls and then respond properly to them before I decide what I’m doing with Arctic

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But now having gathered them all to make this post I assume the vigilance referred to something like being very focused on something (in this case the zero-poster)?

Anyway this is a lead-in to ask @nebjiamn and @Lissa why they aren't pushing Happy today for the over the top TWTBAW "I'm bussing Rask" joke three times and then voting there EoD but switching off when the wagon actually takes off.

Taffy (6)

i grilled him about that already and my thoughts are in my large post. i found his answer satisfactory and after pondering things some more i'm really not all that concerned about him because the rest of his actions mostly make up for that.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

i know this will make people more sus of me for 3p hunting but i'm decently sure taffy is just a 3p arso here at best. i just don't think they're town with more of how the game unfolds lol

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

specifically, the way sunbae and arctic's roles work iss very counter-intuitive to being utilized in a game with town arson KP -- its extremely negative utilty to create a town role that can have targets soak up KP from wolf targets while ALSO giving wolves a way to detonate or disarm those bombs themselves.

rask's role + sunbae's role + likely arctic's role == a scenario where the town KP and protectives work together to ensure wolves can't really die but town detonations always go off

we are probably exactly in a world where town and wolves have utility and the game is augmented by a swingy but overall low-output KP in the form of a 3rd party who is truly neutral

fuckin a, cool setup gemma (unironic!!!!!!!!!!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dyachei

ben, I'm almost never gonna be able to make EOD because Amy refuses to go to bed reasonably.

Idk how to read taffy so if anyone has some tips there lmk

I am pretty concerned about ladd but felt better about him at EOD

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by dyachei

i was pretty confused why earlier in the day you were able to find me so soundly but ladd was not. He seemed to get there at EOD which made me feel not as concerned. He's usually very good at reading me but it felt like he was trying to keep options open earlier

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hm.

@didistetter @annika help me out here. remind me where you are on dya and read this from dya, does it feel genuine?

2 things that stick out to me:

-dya got defensive about not being at eod but that was a throwaway comment in my readslist. this is prob nothing but shrug
-does the ladd relief really track to you? that feels sketch to me. especially with how the hedge on ladd is prefaced in the first post?

Vote: dyachei

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

Since you have doused me, yeah, I am a PR. Specifically I'm the even night version of Sunbae's role. I was not informed about any anticlaim. So I will in fact self-resolve and you should not kill me. Especially because it does not get us a ML

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sometimes i fear i hate mafia

vote: ladd

"Each night, target a player (you may self-target). If they are the same alignment as you, defuse any bombs strapped to them. You are told when you successfully defuse a bomb."
@nebjiamn i've been kinda rolling this over and the feedback part is interesting to me. Maf would realistically just be defusing the other wolves, but the feedback part is kinda ?

cause like you can argue that feedback is to counter the redirectors: but the redirectors function like a bodyguard: so they would normally be shielding town—which would be unlikely to interfere with maf diffusing other maf.

Ig i could see a 3p bomber buuuuut that would basically, with the rask role, make 3p a pseudo extra kp that only can target town, so their wincon seems kinda scuffed with an ungated mafia firefighter

idk villy makes more sense for me i think?

Villy arso, odd night bodyguard, even night bodyguard, maybe a tracker
+ mafia diffuser, maybe rolecop, maybe a gated kp

idk gemma setups, but 3 maf, town arso and a 3p seems a bit much lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

hm.

@didistetter @annika help me out here. remind me where you are on dya and read this from dya, does it feel genuine?

2 things that stick out to me:

-dya got defensive about not being at eod but that was a throwaway comment in my readslist. this is prob nothing but shrug
-does the ladd relief really track to you? that feels sketch to me. especially with how the hedge on ladd is prefaced in the first post?

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mostly I had them town for their catch-up but it was one of my lighter reads. Arcy and Ladd were also townreading them for the Sunbae post and I liked their reasoning for it

Dya getting defensive over not being EoD might be NAI, i think theyre usually quick to defend themselves as either alignment

hmm. I see what you mean with the relief thing, they brush off the concern on Ladd a bit quickly

idk mybe im stupid but ladd has sounded towny to me today other than the taffy stuff lol, but even the best villies can tunnel.

Ben I am rather infamously not good at reading dya. Their tone just always sounds wolfy to me. :burnout:

i'll read back through d1 tonight probs, i need to figure out what i actually think.

@Arctic personally I've been really liking Ben's contributions at EoD and especially today, he has seemed hella town to me not only for the pelt on Rask but on posting as well

@Maple I hope you're alright o7

I guess Taffy being a 3P might make sense? ive never seen a 3P in a 15er though so I'm still hesitant to vote her eheh

Ben's speculation around the setup makes sense, and like tbh I'd be more willing to vote her if she were wolfie, but she's still been townie to me so it's kinda like. bleh. i mean tbf a 3P might seem townie to me because they have no TMI but...,.,,,, still,..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

"Each night, target a player (you may self-target). If they are the same alignment as you, defuse any bombs strapped to them. You are told when you successfully defuse a bomb."
@nebjiamn i've been kinda rolling this over and the feedback part is interesting to me. Maf would realistically just be defusing the other wolves, but the feedback part is kinda ?

cause like you can argue that feedback is to counter the redirectors: but the redirectors function like a bodyguard: so they would normally be shielding town—which would be unlikely to interfere with maf diffusing other maf.

Ig i could see a 3p bomber buuuuut that would basically, with the rask role, make 3p a pseudo extra kp that only can target town, so their wincon seems kinda scuffed with an ungated mafia firefighter

idk villy makes more sense for me i think?

Villy arso, odd night bodyguard, even night bodyguard, maybe a tracker
+ mafia diffuser, maybe rolecop, maybe a gated kp

idk gemma setups, but 3 maf, town arso and a 3p seems a bit much lol

---

im running it around in my head. tbc, i would not expect there to be a town arso AND a 3p, its either or.

i'm not sure i track why you say it's limiting for them -- there isn't apparent feedback that they ARE bombed, just if the disarming was successful.

that is literally mafia's gated KP? if they target town with it, town blows up. this is where i'm getting hung up on taffy's role being 3p--does it make sense to give mafia a way to defuse themselves AND punish a town arsonist who lets out their claims before they die?

e.g. if taffy dies tonight and rask's role was alive (i.e. we didn't know about it),

-----actually hold on, i just raelized why taffy was thinking of the counterclaim

its very likelly she was told mafia could use her claim against her (via rasks role killing her targets) and this would also make sense why the other prs didnt get such feedback?

hmm

Eh Im just gonna send it

I'm an inventor and I gave nl a track last night. The whole *bombs* thing is a pretty funny coincidence.

wolf inventor amirite

You know it bud ~:cheers:

@Visor confirm ?

Vote: Unvote

Admittedly giving the item to visor IS wolfing because I knew he'd defend me without outing the info and I figured I needed someone to mason with me to live deeper into the game.

Just don't have the juice to go the hard way here, and since we're basically massclaiming already i figure this info is pretty important.

Gemma crafting this cool ass setup only for the players to massclaim d2