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I think a more integrated Europe will be more likely to prevent this and threatening to leave is the opposite direction from closer integration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardo
I don't think the EU commission will fix US cops arresting people for jaywalking though, if you meant that.
As more and more EU countries use referendums the EU will disintegrate. News just in the ECHR has declared illegal migrants can not be jailed.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/eu-cou...not-be-jailed/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Nt8sQvH6I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix4Vmqw1bk0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji2qUmM2EdA
This monster will fall, for many it's the question of 'what now'
When people spam youtube videos to make their case, you know they don't understand their own arguments. First the SNP, then Corbyn, now Brexit. Mindless cultlike fanatics, with the common theme of thinking that number of youtube videos and social media followers equals a substantial case.
There was a question hour this evening on ITV where Farage and Cameron each had a half hour of answering questions from a diverse audience ranging from nurses, buisness owners, students and others. Find here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hefD0Aim40
A good showing for both parties I think, I am somewhat biased for farage but I do think cameron held his own fairly well, though I do think it was a bad idea to found some of the argument for staying on faith in the ability or willingness of the current establisment to stand up to the EU.
I was somewhat perturbed by the amount of leeway the moderator gave that girl who tried to pain Farage as racist.
ITV knew what they were getting with her that's why they selected that racist, yeah she totally disrecpted Nigel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
CAMERON IS A PUSSY COULDNT 1VS 1 FARAGE AGAIN. this was a watered down confession in a church!! It's like he cant share a stage with an opponent on numerous debates its rigged for what he wants.
Another monster, this time from the East, to whom you will succumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Old men like me can even remember when there was a brawl in the UK parliament, involving Michael Hesseltine picking up the ceremonial mace and threatening to throw it at the Labour Party opposite...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Officially converting to Islam, can't beat them join 'em
I thought this was quite good. Just a bit of fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBz6y6ZrmD8
Do we stay or do we go? This video just tells us no. Just think about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Unfortunately, the amount of cretins on both sides are too damn high. I wish there was a third option like... "dissolve our current government and ban them from office".
Well the good news is that thefibbing buttered new potato'Call Me Dave' is finished in either event. The Tories, unlike Labour are ruthless to their leaders who let them down.
But kick out Cameron and Osborne and who do you get instead? Boris is a con man and outside the capital most people think he's a floppy haired clown who quotes schoolboy Latin and shouts, "Wiff waff". Mad Michael Gove has the charisma of a well thumbed copy of A F L Beeston's Descriptive Grammar of Epigraphic South Arabian. Enter some other former Eton and Oxbridge spin doctor from the back benches? What's the point of that?Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Boris Johnson is a hero from HIGNFY. That's all his fans need.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
Look who it is the two self righteous leftists showed up right on time to re-educate us just when the government resorts to anti democratic measures to.ensure a a win for remain or a voiding of the referendum with the convenient 'glitch' in the system. Spending further tax payers money outside of the campaign allowance (FYI the government is for remain) to target 'underrepresented' voters!
Within the stipulations all votes cast beyond the deadline can be considered voided by the EU
Senior figures were even said to think that “implausibly high” website traffic at 10.15pm on Tuesday pointed to someone deliberately crashing the system and there were warnings the law change paves the way to legal challenges to a close referendum result.
Funny you talk about Latin you hypocrite you've got a latin sentence as your signature the irony oh the irony. Most people actually like BORIS than you think he has the highest approval rating of any politician in the UK
And that is why the UK should be evicted from the cohort of the civilized European nations. So Brexit is not an opportunity, it is self-flagellation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
Gilrandir just wants the UK to float Ukraines corrupt economic system. and perhaps a sparring session with putin.
Israel the land of god's chosen people, have thrown their lot in with Russia it seems.
Spaziba Bibi.
Making sure more people can vote is anti-democratic? This is a telling point - the Brexiters say they are campaigning for democracy, but then their actions speak louder: they try and disenfranchise as many people as they can in order to rely on a low turnout because they think it favours them, while Leave.eu's Arron Banks, forever moaning about unelected Commissioners having power over elected national governments, talks of trying to use the unelected courts to override the elected government. And good old Farrage, who, when there was a second vote in Ireland over the Lisbon Treaty said it was a "travesty of democracy" and the sort of thing Robert Mugabe would do, has said that if his side loses, he wants a second referendum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardo
Once again it's a conspiracy! Quite how such a legal challenge would work is anyone's guess. It reminds me of the foxhunting nutjobs trying to declare all legislation since 1949 null and void with another such Dungeons & Dragons legal challenge.Quote:
Within the stipulations all votes cast beyond the deadline can be considered voided by the EU
Senior figures were even said to think that “implausibly high” website traffic at 10.15pm on Tuesday pointed to someone deliberately crashing the system and there were warnings the law change paves the way to legal challenges to a close referendum result.
My signature does not have a Latin sentence in it. Re-read.Quote:
Funny you talk about Latin you hypocrite you've got a latin sentence as your signature the irony oh the irony. Most people actually like BORIS than you think he has the highest approval rating of any politician in the UK
What the hell is wrong with getting more people to vote? Everyone in the UK has a single vote, no more no less. Unless in your opinion "underrepresented voters" should remain at home and not vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardo
Lizardo (King Komodo of the Threatened lizard people) ... will perform a tactical retreat and arrive to open a can of whoop ass by nightfall.....
Common Tongue Translation:
ILL BE BACK
I'm old enough to remember when the Tories voted for Thatcher as leader. She was a rank outsider and came from nowhere. See Corbyn as an example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
If you don't understand the irony of my statement I can do nothing about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardo
I'd think someone who wanted to remain in the EU would find comfort in the repetitive nature of Tory leadership. Or do you actually believe the desire to remain somehow makes the Tory more virtuous in his conduct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
A change in the composition of the Tory upper ranks would be hard pressed to make things worse than it already is and retain its majority.
There is never a major change in the composition of the Tory upper ranks, which consist of the country's ruling class, eg. the incident with Cameron and that pig. They form the upper strata of the other parties too, but at least the other parties, Labour especially, residually draw on other sections of our society as well. As for trouble in the Tory PP: there is zero chance of them losing their majority in the Commons, unless they're really, really determined to perform seppuku.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
I disagree.
The conservative party is poised to split over the referrendum as it is. The junior doctors strike and the recent controversies over zero hour contracts lead me to believe we building up to a breaking point in the next decade or so where patience with the conservatives will run out.
Both labour and the conservatives have soiled the bed and unless we were to see major growths of competency in either of them we will see side parties new and old grow by siphoning off dissaffected voters.
Likely not enough to replace either main party but almost certainly enough to disrupt any single party majority forming in 2020 or 2025.
There is no comparison between the UK economy and the Norwegian economy; the Norwegian workforce is less than 3 million compared to over 30 million for the UK. The economic activities which earn money for the two nations are starkly different (the public sector in Norway is so large it would no doubt be called Stalinism by many of the Free Market Everything Brexiteers) so whatever was said by whom to whom is irrelevant to the British debate, even if everything this woman from a small agrarian party is true and that the warnings about damage to the Norwegian economy were so greatly exaggerated, it doesn't follow that similar warnings can be ignored vis-à-vis the UK. Because a boy cried wolf doesn't mean it's safe to ignore the bear behind you.
Not to mention WWIII, likkle dicky birds dying in droves, vote leave and your pension gets it! etc....etc......etc.....etcQuote:
t doesn't follow that similar warnings can be ignored vis-à-vis the UK. Because a boy cried wolf doesn't mean it's safe to ignore the bear behind you.
Oh and whatever you do don't mention Turkey.
Damn and blast I just did! :creep:
I can't believe the propaganda from either side (including yours, sorry). How am I supposed to vote in a sensible fashion?
Vote for the side who arent threatening to make thier doom and gloom predictions worse if they lose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyspy
In a nutshell.Quote:
Forget all the arguments about trade, immigration and all the rest.
Do you want the ability to remove the politicians who make the laws?
If you do, then you should vote to leave.
So that's don't vote at all then...Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
I'm just pointing out that people on either side are wasting their time talking about Norway, whether it's, "We don't want to leave and end up like Norway" or, "We can leave and be just fine, Norway hasn't ever been in the EU" because Britain and Norway are completely different countries which may have similar political traditions but don't resemble each other economically in any way shape or form. As for Turkey, it's moving further and further from ever being in by virtue of Erdoğan turning it into an Islamist dictatorship.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
I was unaware the french government were on the brexit side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
http://www.politico.eu/article/franc...david-cameron/
My wording was specific "threatening to make it worse" for all its faults the brexit campaign isnt openly planning on committing economic retaliation if they lose.
Your a fool to not think Erdogan has leverage over EU he's got Merkel by the balls. Got that satirist in court. On a whim he could expel thousands of migrants into Europe. He's even refused to take in any migrants back if turks don't get visa free travel. It's a bad deal we give him 6 billion which used to be 3 billion by the way for every migrant we don't want he sends us another. Next year it will be 10 billion this man has got EU by the balls. I could go on but I think I might be talking to a brick wall so I'll stop but heres a poemQuote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
IT IS always a temptation to an armed and agile nation
To call upon a neighbour and to say: –
"We invaded you last night – we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away."
And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
And then you'll get rid of the Dane!
It is always a temptation for a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say: –
"Though we know we should defeat you,
we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away."
And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.
It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray;
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say: --
"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost!"
This is the problem when ill-educated people spout cliches to describe a situation without thinking through what they're saying. The "Your" instead of "You're" is also painful, but the metaphor at the end is particularly badly used. Unless Lizardo knows something the rest of the world doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardo
Ah, Juncker again, a brexit will be the end of western-civilisation. Mom there is a scary newspaper under my bed
You might at least speak English rather than American when discussing this...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Project fear! Project fear! The scaremongers are trying to scare us with scary scares! Don't be scared of all the scariness! Oh and by the way run for your lives, the Turks are coming! We'll all be murdered in our beds!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardo
:laugh4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4N_JeKJqkg
Only anecdotal but rather revealing.
I suspect that this will be like Iraq, Syria, Libya, in that I can see the plain idiocy of what's being decided, but we decide to walk straight into it anyway. And we'll be left to regret the decision for years after, while I shake my head and wonder what got into our heads, as we complain about "if we'd only known in hindsight", which I could see every step of the way.
LOL i wonder why the guardian blocked it? keep it hush hush. it's fair use i presume the uploader wasnt monetising his videos?Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
I'm only guessing, but I suspect it may have been on copyright grounds, the reason being that the message says, "...content from The Guardian, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."
Considering what that excuse has been used to do over the last 10 years on youtube it is safe to say that the Guardian is interested in copyright the same way China is.
Funny, I thought we didnt walk into syria, and now we're regretting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
The EU is stagnant, fragile and in decline, we're in for hard times either way, brexit gives us back our border controls, saves us 8.5 billion a year and makes both Brussels and our own political parties, who have botrh screwed us in favour of the european project and/or themselves for the last 15-20/80 years, begin shitting themselves in panic.
There will still be a Conservative government after the referendum, just one that will lurch to the right. As for "our" border controls, if that Conservative government really did think immigration was too high, was "out of control" then why did they let in another 188,000 non-EU immigrants? There is no way that the arch-free market politicians who are poised to take over from Cameron and Osborne would want to cut off a ready supply of cheap, wage suppressing labour. One of two things will happen: either, bearing in mind around two thirds of MPs don't want to leave the European Economic Area, we will still have free movement anyway and we've given up our votes and vetoes for fringe benefits, or we leave and immigration is just diverted from coming from Eastern Europe to coming from Asia and Africa, which being more visible and more liable to rhetoric about Islamisation, will result in those who wanted to reduce immigration moving from irrelevant UKIP to people with an inordinate fondness for torchlit parades and marching tunes. Nastiness ensues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Even if we take that as true (which is simultaniously extremely cynical for the country and optimistic for the conservatives chances to remain intact/power past 2020) I see little difference between the two in terms of doom save for the fact that brexit gives us a chance, for in the EU we are at the whims of those to which we have no influence at all and who most certainly do not have our interests even close to their own.
Soddit.
Personally, I don't mind immigration from within the EU. Europe's population is at least mostly culturally akin to us, and they adapt readily enough in my experience, and they want to identify themselves as British. It's immigrants who don't want to integrate (or at least their descendants), who want to change Britain to be like where they've come from, that I don't want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
The Commonwealth is filled with people who are more culturally akin to us and in some cases already identify as British to a small historical degree, but because of the EU we have to shun most of them in favour of a political block that is increasingly beginning to include the peoples you describe who dont want to integrate and want to change thier host nation.
Most of our troublemakers are from the Commonwealth (Pakistan).Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
As I said: "beginning", give it time; as turkey is let in and the migrants german has invited are made citizens and you will see an upswing in less than cooperative applicants, and we will be legally powerless to refuse them.
Wasn't the UK the chief lobbier for the expansion of the EU to include Turkey? AFAIK we were the chief driver to include eastern Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Hence why I said i wanted to "make both Brussels and our own political parties, who have both screwed us in favour of the european project and/or themselves for the last 15-20/80 years, begin shitting themselves in panic."
I dont like our politicians, I do like how we have the option twice a decade of kicking them to the curb when they piss us off, that is more precious to me than a hundred dreams of a United Europe.
Depriving them of a retirement plan is good too.
All painfully reminiscent of the arguments during the Scottish referendum, when the Scots were disgruntled over how they have little to no influence over the government they get in Westminster, as later further demonstrated in the 2015 GE. The Scots looked at the economic arguments and decided that spiting the English wasn't worth economically shooting themselves in the foot. It looks like we're going to decide otherwise with the EU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
The English and the Scots have a 300 year history of nearly unparalleled success and occasionally even friendship tieing us together and they were economically incapable of surviving alone. The British and the EU are tied together by a 45 year history of decline, bitterness, subversion and occasional naked contempt for eachother, and we can most certainly survive alone.
And the foot's blown either way, either dramatically now or in a quieter 10 year decline.
It's not as if all the politicians speak with one voice... voting a triumph for those well known anti-establishment mavericks Boris Johnson (Eton and Balliol, former Spectator editor, descendant of the Hannoverian royal family) Michael Gove (Oxford Union President, ex-BBC, chief toady to House Murdoch) not to mention privately educated former commodities broker Farrage, is only swapping one gang for a crazier one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
An unbroken horse is better than one made lame.
They arent crazier, thats rather the point: the worst thing that happens is Boris gets in power and turns out to be Cameron 2.0, maybe he's exactly what we need to weather the storm, maybe he wont get in power at all as this is poised to end any semblence of coheisivness the Tories have.
We have the option to remove a Cameron 2.0 and undo what he does, we don't have that option with the EU comission, not in a peaceful manner anyway. And with the comission hanging around his neck Cameron 1.0 or anyone else in power is limited in what they are capable of changing to make things better, even if they want to.
So after Brexit you'll make another Brenter, and then yet another Brexit. Thus moving in and out you will bargain ever more advantageous conditions. So in a decade or so your shuttle policy will get into history books as a paragon of promoting national interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
Those emotions you find in the EU-UK relations were never absent from England-Scotland realtions either, and the deeper we go into history, the more controversial they were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
That depends if you make a differentiation between high and lowlanders and why I said occasionally even friendship, point being england and scotland relations have had thier highs and lows, (the highs usually coinciding with beating up the french) whereas the EU has just been lows and plateaus of ambivilence.
Remainiacs, the gift that just keeps on giving.
After the 'emergency' budget was trashed this morning we have 'St' Bob Geldof sticking two fingers up to working class fishermen worried about their jobs and calls 'em wankers.
Keep it up lads. A multi-millionaire shitting on the little people.
I like it. Two peoples have lived in one country for 400 years and have developed only "occasional friendship". Way to go!Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Who was beating up the French? Certainly not the Scots - they have their Auld Alliance to revere, so relations between England and Scotland were not friendly at times of English-French wars, notably the Hundred Years War. Unless by "high relations" you mean hostilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
An arbitrary statement. To my mind, the UK is the most special among the EU states and Cameron managed to negotiate even more concessions from the EU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
I think you'll find it's four.Quote:
Two peoples have lived in one country for 400 years
Considering that before we became one country we were constantly invading and massacring eachother for giggles, a long term tolerance and occasional friendship is outright loving in comparison. I was also being somewhat facetious, before the scottish independance referendum we havent had a major falling out since the jacobites in the 1700's and that was more a Scottish civil war which the English took the side of the Protestant Lowlanders against the Catholic HighlandersQuote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
...dude, go look up how many times we have fought the french, we've done it a lot, even after the 1707 act of union. Scratch that, especially after the 1707 act of union.Quote:
Who was beating up the French? Certainly not the Scots - they have their Auld Alliance to revere, so relations between England and Scotland were not friendly at times of English-French wars, notably the Hundred Years War. Unless by "high relations" you mean hostilities.
The Auld alliance ended in the 1500's.
That would be if you consider the EU as a pact intended to create a federal government, when we joined it was with the understanding it was a free trade agreement and nothing more and with that context it becomes clear that we have been imposed upon incessantly.Quote:
An arbitrary statement. To my mind, the UK is the most special among the EU states and Cameron managed to negotiate even more concessions from the EU.
Leave.
It's a constitutional thing.
I consider 'us' to be the people of the UK, and so i am willing to submit to common governance derived from the will of those people.
Economics isn't really a consideration, yes there will be a short term hit, but a low regulation low tax britain will grow faster long term.
Immigration isn't really an issue, to the limited degree that i care it is because we actively discriminate against commonwealth countries.
What i care about is:
Fiscal policy - low and simple tax.
Regulation - low and straightforward.
Foreign policy - we decide when to spill blood and treasure
Law and justice - the supremacy of parliament, and a supreme court that acts only to make sure parliament acts within its own laws
The EU is institutionally incapable of decisive action, it is unfit for purpose, and even if it was i'm unsure i'd like what decisive action they would take:
More complex tax
More byzantine regulation
Less interventionist FP, and less interest in Defence
Less emphasis on Common Law and more on statute adjudicated by the ECJ
Quoting from Chairman Farrage's Little Red Book... we all know what a class warrior Farrage is don't we, and how much he's always hated the millionaires and stood up for his fellow workers, just like the rest of that bastion of true Socialism, UKIP. The Brexiteers would be taking Orwellian doublethink to new heights - except of course, that we know they don't mean half of it. Sir Bob pointed out that despite being on the EU Fisheries Committee, Farrage attended one out of 43 of its meetings.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
not all of us brexiteers are ukip people, or, think very highly of nigel's tactics. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
Socialists are mentally ill.
Yes, that is correct. France, the Netherlands and several other countries postponed the free movement of those "new EU workers" for several years, which was allowed at the time under EU law. Britain voluntarily decided against these measures and instantly became the favourite destination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
Since that happened during Tony Blair's run as Prime Minister and seeing as how he is widely disliked nowadays, this is of course no obstacle for Brexiteers to blame Brussels for everything.
Some people also need to educate themselves on the difference between a Visum and the ability to migrate somewhere...and the fact that for the UK it doesn't matter one toss to whom the EU offers a visum, because it's only valid for the Schengen area.
That's what I thought, that the we'd opted out of the free movement rule, that any such free movement was decided by the Downing Street government rather than by Brussels. But as Greyblades explained in an earlier post, his intention is to stick it to all politicians by means of Brexit, so it doesn't matter whether something Brexiters dislike is decided by Brussels or Downing Street; everything that is bad is blamed on membership of the EU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kralizec
It's just depressing to see you write such unfounded, offensive blanket statements... :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Good work mate, good work.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
I recommend reading the following website, because such a comment is disappointing.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
http://www.time-to-change.org.uk/men...lth-and-stigma
Especially for someone who identifies their issues and heritage by the moniker: InsaneApache.
The retort to scientists worrying over budget:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW0LEtW_6sI
Dude, I'm aware of at least some of those wars. But you said that the Scots had a special cordiality towards the English when Britain went to war with the French. That was the statement that I doubted. It was certainly wrong in respect of pre-1707 wars. And I wonder what was the Scots participation in post-1707 wars and what was the popular feeling in Scotland when the British crown started a war with their long-time (although not current) allies. I'm sure it was far from unanimous in support of the English.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Unions may evolve. The rules of evolution are to be discussed along the way. You should have put your foot down when it was being introduced. And you have lived with those changes for quite a time without any apparent (to an outsider) catastrophe. Now when Cameron has wheedled out significant preferences, I see no reason for raising hue and cry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Significant preferences that may as well be piss in the wind, the trust to give those promises meaning is long gone both with brussels. The EU is constantly pushing for more integration and has a disregard for the decisions of the member states as shown with the first Irish referendum on the lisbon treaty. With a combined attitude of "this time they'll do it" in the EU and a general trend among our politicians to not consult the electorate when signing the country to integratory agreements, we cannot trust that the promises will be upheld by either side for very long.
Not being part of the schingen area means we can still check people's passports when they try to enter the country. It does not change the fact that being part of the Eu means we cannot refuse EU citizens from immigrating here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kralizec
Some people need to educate themselves on the difference beteen border controls and immigration controls and also need to an attitude adjustment.
I am sure it is comforting to reassure yourself that your side is sane and their side isnt but it is quite ugly to witness..Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
I do not like the EU, I do not like politicians who consider it more important than thier own country's well being and self determination, I consider makng those politicians panic a bonus but it most certainly is not my main goal. An anticipation of well deserved schadenfreude does not automatically make me an ill informed idiot blaming the EU for all my problems at the behest of another politician and your assumption is frankly depressing to witness in a fellow countryman.
I have made it clear multiple times I blame our problems on our own politicians as well as the EU so it is somewhat idiotic for you to claim otherwise. Thier time will come in 2020, 2025, 2030 and on and on but the EU can only be dealt with here and now.
When you vote for some politicians you impart them with the authority to decide the course of the country. They don't have to ask you for permission on any issue which is within their responsibility. If you don't like decisions they adopt, vote them out next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
We did, that's what the conservatives won for and they're now resisting this tooth and nail. They cant be trusted to keep the status quo any more than the alternatives so we must remove the option. This referendum is how we do that.
We want the EU politicians out and they wont allow a next time.
According to recent polls the "we" vs the "them" is about 52% vs 48%. So I wouldn't be so bold as to extend your opinion to the whole nation (especially Scotland). As someone here put it (referring to Ukrainians, though) the British are a deeply divided nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
As for removing the option, it is always the best decision. Let's remove football, and we will see no fan clashes any more. Let's remove gays, and we will witness no gaybar shootings any more. Let's remove Muslims and we will suffer no terror acts any more. Removing a cause always works.
Those suggestions would work, they are last resorts in the situation where all other alternatives have and will fail, and continued persistance is untennable which is what we are in with the EU.
You have one poll saying close remain, I have one saying certain leave.