Doctor Who?

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Originally Posted by cegorach

True, true, but I'd say scary - in a good way. However it sounds.

I'm not suprised about our poor Doctor's reluctance - she was barely 7 years old three (?) days earlier.

She made little Doctor and Amy dolls for years for (old style) Daleks' sake!

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Oh, he doesn't know about the dolls yet!

Still, she litterally looked like she wanted to eat him.

Not that that isn't a little bit sexy, but still.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Oh, he doesn't know about the dolls yet!

Still, she litterally looked like she wanted to eat him.

Not that that isn't a little bit sexy, but still.

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He does. It was mentioned in the first episode.

I'm a little confused about her not remembering the Darleks though. I thought she didn't meet them until episode 3.

The British nationalism in this season is a bit odd. I wonder if it will reduce their international viewers.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

The British nationalism in this season is a bit odd. I wonder if it will reduce their international viewers.

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I don't think it is such a problem.
There are only two episodes - so far - where it appears in some form and one is steam-punkish a bit so it suits it very well. Which means only one is actually quite nationalistic, all right - a lot.

But is it so different in previous seasons? Some episodes in the past were so full of pathos that I almost started laughed, but this is British series, mainly for British viewers and it is their right to add something from time to time.

Besides with the Master elected the Prime Minister of Great Britain in one episode, the UK turning into a nazi state in another or farting aliens wearing ministers' skins like suits there is a doze of self-irony providing some balance to the series.
I am sure there will be similar also in this season and with this doctor.

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Originally Posted by cegorach

But is it so different in previous seasons? Some episodes in the past were so full of pathos that I almost started laughed, but this is British series, mainly for British viewers and it is their right to add something from time to time.

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The Doctor belongs to everyone on Earth; not just the Britons! ~;)

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

He does. It was mentioned in the first episode.

I'm a little confused about her not remembering the Darleks though. I thought she didn't meet them until episode 3.

The British nationalism in this season is a bit odd. I wonder if it will reduce their international viewers.

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He doesn't know she's still making them, I think.

RE: the Daleks

She should remember them from the series before last, shouldn't she?

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

He doesn't know she's still making them, I think.

RE: the Daleks

She should remember them from the series before last, shouldn't she?

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Still making them??? Weird.

Daleks: That could be it. The show either goes too fast for me or takes too much liberty with "time lines." I understand what you're saying. Either way it seemed like blatant foreshadowing. I hoped it would be a bit more subtle; a bit more, English.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

He doesn't know she's still making them, I think.

RE: the Daleks

She should remember them from the series before last, shouldn't she?

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Where did you get the fact she's still making them from? Do you mean since she's been travelling with the doctor?

I must have missed this.

There is no British nationalism, it is "take-the-:daisy: out of Britain". Everything done is shows how bad Britain is. For example, Britain trapped a caring space creature and tortured it for hundreds of years. Is that nationalism? Winstonchurchill is a petty thief, keep trying to steal the Tardis key. Is that nationalism?

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Originally Posted by Beskar

There is no British nationalism, it is "take-the-:daisy: out of Britain". Everything done is shows how bad Britain is. For example, Britain trapped a caring space creature and tortured it for hundreds of years. Is that nationalism? Winstonchurchill is a petty thief, keep trying to steal the Tardis key. Is that nationalism?

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It's all performed under the BBC Wales banner, what else could we have expected? :D

Wait a minute. We can't say :daisy: in the Frontroom?

Just watched tonight's episode on iplayer. Massively disappointing. After the two parter by Moffat things were actually looking up for the series, a suggestion that perhaps a slightly more adult (although still family friendly) Who was in store. Come tonight's episode and all hopes of that seem to be knocked out of the park. It was another guest writer who wrote the episode and it showed. Within minutes the depressing format of children's tv show meets slightly appealing story line emerged only for the later of the two to disappear rapidly into its own time and space continuum. What then played out for the remaining 40 minutes was fairly awful television. As predicted the character of "Rory" intruded on the dynamic which had been established between the Doctor and Amy. One liners soon made their way into the episode, doing away with the more witty and less obvious humour one might expect from a British television show. Only one of the one liners actually made me smile, no laughs however.

The story line itself was pretty bog standard and didn't really have any sc-fi elements to it. Hell, there wasn't really any elements to it, it was just, bleh. So anyway, as the episode trotted along it didn't get much better and I remained unimpressed. It was a scene towards then end which finally did it for me. Some novelty, sword fight scene which of course tried to inject humour and to me at least, failed fairly miserably. I can not see any one over the age of 14 finding the said scene funny.

The cherry on top of this fairly craptastic cake was the special effects. Yes they're not normally great but tonight they were just outright awful. For a show which receives a budget of £700,000 per episode to produce such awful special effects is pretty inexcusable. Shows back in the late 90s had better CGI.

Overall then hugely disappointing. Apparently Moffat isn't writing again till the final two-parter series finale so unless next weeks picks things back up I will be steering well clear till then.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

RE: the Daleks

She should remember them from the series before last, shouldn't she?

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

Daleks: That could be it. The show either goes too fast for me or takes too much liberty with "time lines." I understand what you're saying. Either way it seemed like blatant foreshadowing. I hoped it would be a bit more subtle; a bit more, English.

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New Series 4; The Stolen Earth/Journey's End finale saw Davros and the Dalek Empire steal the Earth from its orbit to help power the Reality Bomb. Every person alive at the time (which includes Amy) saw the Dalek invasion and experienced the events of that time.

This is further referenced in The Waters of Mars special, where Adelaide Brook sees a Dalek during that time, is spared, and goes on to found the Mars base. The Doctor concludes that she was allowed to live because the Dalek knew she was part of a fixed point in Time.

If Amy knows nothing about these events, it indicates a different timeline is operating.

I don't think it's a different timeline, the Dr Who universe doesn't have separate timelines since time can be changed, I think the battle of Canary Wharf and the events in The Stolen Earth have simply ceased to exist, "eaten" by the cracks like the clerics.

Did anyone else think the "hero of many" killed by River is the doctor?

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Originally Posted by miotas

Did anyone else think the "hero of many" killed by River is the doctor?

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Yup, same thought here.

Caught up with the latest episode last night, enjoyed it for the most part; somewhat disappointed with Amy and Rory reconciling their differences over the Doctor and the latter becoming a permanent addition to the TARDIS... I think it takes away from the Doctor-Amy dynamic too much.

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Originally Posted by Secura

Yup, same thought here.

Caught up with the latest episode last night, enjoyed it for the most part; somewhat disappointed with Amy and Rory reconciling their differences over the Doctor and the latter becoming a permanent addition to the TARDIS... I think it takes away from the Doctor-Amy dynamic too much.

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I agree.

I don't mind adding a third companion but why not make it somebody who's interesting? The whole partner companion thing has been done before and it didn't really work then. Third characters like River Song are interesting as they add to the story line. Rory adds one liners and slapstick humour, plus he seems to be there for the sake of being there, no purpose and no depth.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

New Series 4; The Stolen Earth/Journey's End finale saw Davros and the Dalek Empire steal the Earth from its orbit to help power the Reality Bomb. Every person alive at the time (which includes Amy) saw the Dalek invasion and experienced the events of that time.

This is further referenced in The Waters of Mars special, where Adelaide Brook sees a Dalek during that time, is spared, and goes on to found the Mars base. The Doctor concludes that she was allowed to live because the Dalek knew she was part of a fixed point in Time.

If Amy knows nothing about these events, it indicates a different timeline is operating.

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I think the Daleks actually succeeded. The Darek's plan was actually to wipe out reality in all dimensions. What is occuring is pretty much just that, but with "cracks". This means the Daleks never fully did it as intended, but managed to crack the universe to cause the effect. The reason no one remembers is because the cracks already wiped the incident out, like with those soldiers. People's minds magically changed.

For the Doctor, who is a time traveler, his mind is working differently and thus not suspectible. The other creatures which are similar are the same, and are attempting to flee it.

It could be the same for other cast characters. Their minds might not have changed like that, but even then, how would they know that people forgot about the darleks?

What is obviously, however, is that there is something up with that entire village.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

New Series 4; The Stolen Earth/Journey's End finale saw Davros and the Dalek Empire steal the Earth from its orbit to help power the Reality Bomb. Every person alive at the time (which includes Amy) saw the Dalek invasion and experienced the events of that time.

This is further referenced in The Waters of Mars special, where Adelaide Brook sees a Dalek during that time, is spared, and goes on to found the Mars base. The Doctor concludes that she was allowed to live because the Dalek knew she was part of a fixed point in Time.

If Amy knows nothing about these events, it indicates a different timeline is operating.

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Yes I know about the reality bomb, and Tenet's brilliant acting that accompanied it :2thumbsup: . What is unclear is the time frame in which it occurred. I don't know what "year" it occurred in relative to the years Amelia (a much better name) is alive. No biggie; the scene just should have been reshot. :shrug:

I don't see how the Waters of Mars episode relates to the new characters. I have mixed emotions about that episode. Bad writing I guess, but there were flashes of brilliance.

I don't read too much into it and just try to enjoy the episodes.

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Originally Posted by miotas

I don't think it's a different timeline, the Dr Who universe doesn't have separate timelines since time can be changed, I think the battle of Canary Wharf and the events in The Stolen Earth have simply ceased to exist, "eaten" by the cracks like the clerics.

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NOOOOOOO!!!! We're going to have to start enforcing spioler warnings in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

Yes I know about the reality bomb, and Tenet's brilliant acting that accompanied it :2thumbsup: . What is unclear is the time frame in which it occurred. I don't know what "year" it occurred in relative to the years Amelia (a much better name) is alive. No biggie; the scene just should have been reshot. :shrug:

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Relative to the Earth, it happened in 2009, so Amy was definitely alive and should have seen the Daleks along with every other human.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

I don't see how the Waters of Mars episode relates to the new characters. I have mixed emotions about that episode. Bad writing I guess, but there were flashes of brilliance.

I don't read too much into it and just try to enjoy the episodes.

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It doesn't really relate to the current events at all, but the fact that Adelaide Brook was inspired to go into space by coming face to face with a Dalek and living is just further proof that every person should know about the Daleks.

Ahh, it's the crack. I never thought crack would be such an interesting plot device.

Not sure it merits a thread all of its own, though given earlier mention here..

Did anyone watch the Ashes to Ashes finale? Not sure whether or not I actually liked it, but I certianly won't forget it. One or two things I genuinely didn't see coming. And I was on the brink of becoming a blubbering wuss at the end. Left me with an odd feeling. Which is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Justiciar

Not sure it merits a thread all of its own, though given earlier mention here..

Did anyone watch the Ashes to Ashes finale? Not sure whether or not I actually liked it, but I certianly won't forget it. One or two things I genuinely didn't see coming. And I was on the brink of becoming a blubbering wuss at the end. Left me with an odd feeling. Which is a good thing.

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Good ending. I like how the focus on Chris,Ray and Shaz also fitted in. All the challenges they've had to overcome in this season, Chris standing up to Gene, for example, to reflect the fact he died in the real world because he was to submissive and obeyed orders added a nice depth to the show. The guy who played Jim Keates was also on top form this episode and Keates added a real kick to the third season that the first two lacked.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I didn't really find the end that sad surprisingly, probably because I'm more of a casual viewer but also because I kind of suspected it. I'm kind of on the fence as to whether they should do another Ashes to Ashes type series, I would probably prefer it if they didn't though. Whilst it would be interesting to see how Gene Hunt assumed the role of "Sheppard to the lost coppers"; I think some things are best left to the imagination. Also it wouldn't be the same now the mystery of the show is gone. It also has to be noted how excellent it was that all this time, the show was never about Tyler or Drake, it was about Gene. I guess the servants of God really are whiskey swigging foul mouthed coppers. I like that concept.

Also I think it probably does deserve its own thread as due to the recent high quality of Ashes to Ashes and the recent poor quality of Doctor Who, the former is upstaging the latter.

Keates was grand, aye. Whoever cast that guy was a bloody genius.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I love how he visibly changed throughout the series. Purely down to the actor. They didn't so much as touch his costume in the final episode. And yet he managed to turn the concerned bureaucrat from the first episode into.. uh.. what the deuce was that? All he did was remove his glasses. And start barking like a rabid dog. I kind of guessed he personified death in some manner or other. Largely down to his constant talk of "shutting the place down". Never figured the connection would be so literal, though.

And heaven's a cozy old pub in Manchester. True, that.

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Originally Posted by Justiciar

Keates was grand, aye. Whoever cast that guy was a bloody genius.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I love how he visibly changed throughout the series. Purely down to the actor. They didn't so much as touch his costume in the final episode. And yet he managed to turn the concerned bureaucrat from the first episode into.. uh.. what the deuce was that? All he did was remove his glasses. And start barking like a rabid dog. I kind of guessed he personified death in some manner or other. Largely down to his constant talk of "shutting the place down". Never figured the connection would be so literal, though.

And heaven's a cozy old pub in Manchester. True, that.

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Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe Keates was Satan, or at least some personification of Satan. The way he tried to literally drag the three to hell was quite simplistic but really effective. Also I think further hints of him being Satan are given when Viv dies. Gene states that Viv was a "good man", suggesting he didn't deserve the fate which awaited him, as can be seen when Chris has a vision of him surrounded by flames.

I guess Gene always knew who he was. He probably couldn't tell the others though as they wouldn't believe him and hadn't accepted their own deaths yet. Although one thing which I don't get. Gene Hunt died in what, 1952? How can he construct a world of the 70s and 80s? I guess we're now talking about matters of the divine so its plausible..

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Originally Posted by tibilicus

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I believe Keates was Satan, or at least some personification of Satan. The way he tried to literally drag the three to hell was quite simplistic but really effective. Also I think further hints of him being Satan are given when Viv dies. Gene states that Viv was a "good man", suggesting he didn't deserve the fate which awaited him, as can be seen when Chris has a vision of him surrounded by flames.

I guess Gene always knew who he was. He probably couldn't tell the others though as they wouldn't believe him and hadn't accepted their own deaths yet. Although one thing which I don't get. Gene Hunt died in what, 1952? How can he construct a world of the 70s and 80s? I guess we're now talking about matters of the divine so its plausible..

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Yes, Ashes to Ashes was great.

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I don't think it was all envisaged from the beginning of Life on Mars though, I think it was only developed through this series; partly because after Sam left the series naturally gravitated towards Gene Hunt.

I don't think Keates was actually Satan, I think he was litterally the anti-Gene, an unrepentantly bent copper who dragged other down with him. the thing about Hunt that even Sam acknowlwdges is that he wants to bang up criminals, he's focused primarily on keeping the general populace safe and putting "villains" behind bars. This is something that Gene hammers home to Sam, Gene is the ultimate uninhibited, primative, copper - he goes out and gets the bad guys, takes no [ahem] and hang the consequences.

Keats is the complete oppersite, obsessed with protocol, and "results" in terms of stats and form filling- there's a quite serious point about modern policing in there. I say he is the anti-Gene, because where Gene has chosen to stay behind in purgatory to hasten other coppers along, Keats has fairly obviously been sent by someone (the Devil) to drag the same people to Hell.

More on Gene: He said that he had "forgotten", which is also what the Con-man claiming to be Sam said to Alex earlier. This implies that Gene is not a "chosen" agent so much as someone who has chosen not to "cross over", note his pointed refusal to enter the Pub with the others.

On the world: I think it moves foward with the people in it, and it isn't actually centred on Gene; Keats lied about that. It may be that everyone there is a lost soul in some sense or another. Remember the Italian guy who inexplicable dissapears, "back to Italy" because someone else has "died". What about the prisoner who is obsessed with killing coppers, and then dies having become "a legend". I think the policeman part is just the only part we actually see; I don't think it's just Gene's fantasy.

So Gene has been ther 30 years, Sam was there 7, Ray and Chris probably at least ten, Shaz probably less judging by the relatively recent context of her death. The real question is how come there aren't a lot more coppers getting the "culture shcok" thing when they arrive?

Is it just a certain hyper-rational mind, or is it a privilage reserved for DCI's

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Is it just a certain hyper-rational mind, or is it a privilage reserved for DCI's

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Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm kind of moving towards the theory that those who remember their lives before their "deaths" do so because they're not actually dead yet. Sam actually went back to the "real world" (supposedly) and Drake was in a coma, briefly waking before her actual death. Perhaps then they're given a chance to get back to their world if they're not actually dead yet. I don't really know though, it seems like a bit of a plot hole and that's the only thing I can think of to explain it, be it inadequately.

I can't really think of what other reason there could be seeming Drake and Sam weren't quite dead whilst Shaz, Chris and Ray were.

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Originally Posted by tibilicus

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I'm kind of moving towards the theory that those who remember their lives before their "deaths" do so because they're not actually dead yet. Sam actually went back to the "real world" (supposedly) and Drake was in a coma, briefly waking before her actual death. Perhaps then they're given a chance to get back to their world if they're not actually dead yet. I don't really know though, it seems like a bit of a plot hole and that's the only thing I can think of to explain it, be it inadequately.

I can't really think of what other reason there could be seeming Drake and Sam weren't quite dead whilst Shaz, Chris and Ray were.

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Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

actually, that makes perfect sense. If you think about it, being in a between-life-and-death state would mean you were existing in two worlds at once, and hence the disslocation. Drake was also immidiately translated to "Gene's" world when she was shot, but didn't die until after the bullet was removed.

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Originally Posted by Justiciar

Not sure it merits a thread all of its own, though given earlier mention here..

Did anyone watch the Ashes to Ashes finale? Not sure whether or not I actually liked it, but I certianly won't forget it. One or two things I genuinely didn't see coming. And I was on the brink of becoming a blubbering wuss at the end. Left me with an odd feeling. Which is a good thing.

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I haven't seen the series lately but it's coming back. For some reason BBC decided Star Trek was good British telley and Gordon Ramsay is the foreign secretary.

Thread Rescue:

I'm thinking of buying a 10th doctor sonic screwdriver but the ones on Amazon look like toys. Does anyone know where I can find a more accurate reproduction?

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

Thread Rescue:

I'm thinking of buying a 10th doctor sonic screwdriver but the ones on Amazon look like toys. Does anyone know where I can find a more accurate reproduction?

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This is reputed to be the best reproduction, but you might find it a trifle expensive.