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To clarify, if Pizza is town then none of the proposed scum teams are anywhere close to the mark.
It would have to be Pelican + Sip/Murska + ?. At that point, it might as well be DP101 as the Sith Lord Jar Jar here.*
*Just by allusion, not saying you're acting like a Jar Jar here DP.
I'm not voting for Pizza.
But what do you think about my paragraph on the second post of Murska's I quoted?
It's kind of a quibble, as the interpretation can be extended into truism. By my interpretation specifically, then yes, you would be right as the scum team will have been a heavy lurker-lean this game. However, just by noting that ideas can be "planted" you admit that even subtle comments or case setups can have repercussions tending toward desired scum positions, even if they have stopped talking at the later point.
I mean, if you agree that Pizza is scum, then you agree that he has groomed the arguments around, for example, your position to a considerable degree. The cases around GH, that is.
:stare: Unvote; vote: Murska
Do not like the Al-sip wagon at all!
So you agree with this case on Murska, or are you going with the role thing you abandoned earlier?
This was one of the big reasons why I suspected Pizza last night, but it doesn't overwriteQuote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
a) his tone
b) the fact that his case on Murska is still valid
What if, like you, Pizza finds this tidbit about Murska a compelling argument in abstract (despite its mixed record across games)? Wouldn't that trivialize tone, and make the potential of the argument itself incidental?
Basically here's my order of precedence in terms of who I'm saving.
GH > Riedquat > Monty > Pizza > Dp > atheotes > Pelican > Al Sips > Murska
I'd say it's null at this point. Pizza's case on Murska isn't fluid, it's pretty set in stone at this point. I don't see what him picking up on that one post changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Of course, and admittedly with more paranoia than reason, but reason has served nothing this game so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Vote: Al Sipsclar
I would consider Al Sipsclar as an alternative, if atheotes began town-telling.
Though, to be honest, I don't know what the town-tells or scum-tells for atheotes would be. For atheotes, I pretty much only use generic scum tells like pushing townies to death, and that doesn't really apply here. It just could go either way.
I've been focused on Monty and Murska because their scum tells are getting obvious. Monty looked "himself" the entire game, that's not his tell. It's just his vote record and who he's not willing to vote, pure and simple.
Some people you can't read based off of tone or "being themselves" and Monty is one of those people I guess. Which is something I didn't know about Monty, I have played with him many times but not as town versus a Monty-scum. But he's irredeemable this game and he's simply power wolfing.
Murska, the case is there. I'm glad people are seeing it, but without Al Sipsclar or Pelican's support, I will simply be 4 or 5 voted at deadline. So we need to be decisive.
In the event that we cannot get 5 on Murska, I will support Al Sipsclar lynch over myself, but not over a Murska lynch.
I think we just got shafted by townies not having time / not investing.
I missed this part or just didn't understand it, what does this mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
:laugh4: GH > Riedquat :laugh4: I've already told you, you have a faulty cpu!Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Tally as of post 2815:
Lynch votes
3 votes: Murska (GeneralHankerchief, Askthepizzaguy, Dp101)
3 votes: Al Sipsclar (atheotes, Murska, Montmorency)
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Pelican, Riedquat)
not voting - @Al Sipsclar
Voting ends in:
Voting history:Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riedquat
This vote isn't being picked up by the counter.
@Pelican @Al Sipsclar @atheotes
One or two of you are town. We need everyone on the same train. A 3 way split can't win this game.
Vote: Murska weird...
The scums voting for Al Sipsclar tells me that Al's alignment, scum or not, will not affect the scum's likelihood of winning this game.
If he's scum, they're bussing the least valuable member of their team.
Yes, that's what I said.
Isoing atheotes again.
At this point, the only way to really read Pelican/Al is to look at everyone else in the game first and see if you run out of spaces to put either another townie, or another scum.
Al+atheotes+Murska is not the team, in my opinion. Monty's in it.
If Al is in it, you kick atheotes out of it. That's why I gotta look at atheotes and see if there's anything I can reliably read.
Does anyone else want to try it, so it's not just me doing the iso?
I'm doing the iso separately, I don't want this part lost in the wall.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053715270
atheotes noted Murska's behavior earlier than just about anyone. But this is the critical day, no more time at all, and atheotes unwilling to lynch Murska.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
That looks like distancing. How can Murska's behavior be so scummy to atheotes that he notes a big line of his bad behavior, but the follow up is not existent when it's critical, and when there's a slam dunk case on Murska exists.
That's a major problem. If atheotes refuses to lynch Murska under any circumstance, he's always scum with Murska.
I'll keep digging to see if I find anything that contradicts that.
Post immediately after that:
Winston wasn't scum, Pizza isn't scum, Novice wasn't scum, choxorn wasn't scum, Monty is scummy as hell, Cuth was town, Stork was not scum, Pelican town-read seems consensus-y. atheotes is not scum hunting here, because anyone who could be scum is nowhere near is radar.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Pizza, how would you fit atheotes's recent Lone Ranger act in with him being potentially part of a scum team on the precipice of victory?
You already explained why this retrospect approach does not work: no scum have been lynched.Quote:
atheotes is not scum hunting here, because anyone who could be scum is nowhere near is radar.
But it serves to reaffirm my paranoid theory! :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Vote for townieQuote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Doesn't stay and do anything that day, or even stay and talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Vote for townieQuote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Sus a townieQuote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Sus a townieQuote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Directing tracker to the wrong targetsQuote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Curious to know what did dp101 do to cause scum vibes.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
@atheotes
What posts or what behaviors from dp gave you scum vibes?
This line bothers me.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Top line said at dp, I don't understand what dp did to cause the shift of opinion. It looks like pocketing, not solving.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Atheotes kind of angling for a GH lynch based on his claim without being willing to give it time to resolve.
atheotes-GH team looks extremely unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Note: In the next post, atheotes presses dp to vote GH. This can be scummy but it's points in atheotes' favor, because that can be an attempt to solve.
If this is a theory, it's really on point. It's the same thought I had. Winston's role was a solving role, it wasn't simply bullshit. That's why he was targeted, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
This is either a pocket attempt, or atheotes needs to vote with me today.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Possible, but why is it conclusive?Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
I really dislike this post. I only got any information at all because I ignored the planners itt.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuthillius
Cuth's point about atheotes not solving with his vote. This was the problem I had with Murska, above all else.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
The time for a real, townie counterclaim was ages ago. That has long since passed.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Atheotes soft-claiming here is a major scum tell.
It was the first post that came up in the search and you can tell because it includes the quotation from the role PM. It's visible.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
Do a search, it was basically the top line. Atheotes asking for help here tells me he wasn't even looking.
Atheotes had Murska as a suspect and never town-read him ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by atheotes
When did this change?
Laying the framework to vote pizza or GH today.
That plus the case on Al is atheotes' body of work.
If Al Sipsclar is scum, he's someone they can bus. I really don't think Al Sipsclar is scum. It's Murska-atheotes-Monty.
There's a slight possibility of Murska-atheotes-Al Sipsclar, but my god Monty is literally a tire fire if that is the case.
I know Monty is weird, but there's no way he's not scum here.
Cliffs notes of above post:
1) pushes townies all game, lazily votes for the people who claimed, asking for more data. Suspects basically only townies the entire game with the exception of Murska.
2) Murska: Noted five posts of his that were scummy. Promptly forgets to ever mention it again, never votes or pushes him, and then out of the blue, thinks GH is too "quick" to vote for Murska.
3) No explanation for why GH has to be scum, re-frames that issue as "why are you so sure he's NOT scum?"
Burden of proof is yours. You can't come up with a case against GH, so you ask us to do so. That's bs.
The bottom line is this: Everyone needs to get off of Al Sipsclar.
Murska scum roleblocker almost always. Anyone else is bussable right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Forgot to add to the summary that atheotes also avoided lynching the lynchee and voted off-wagon like Murska did.
That's worth at least an orange or a red.
Biggest reach yet. You talk so much about power wolfing yet you have a scum team expending all its voting capital on a secondary wagon, at LYLO?Quote:
Murska-atheotes-Monty.
I'll be back in two hours for the homestretch. Pizza, Monty, keep the vote on Murska in the meantime.
Monty isn't voting Murska at the moment!Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
That's probably the weakest and most obviously wrong thing you've said all game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
This is the absolute most basic of the basic tactics. If ANY townie votes incorrectly, and this can be on Al or on Pizza, that's pretty much game.
Giving two wrong answers that people are willing to vote wins easier. If there's only one alternative to Murska, then there's a chance people think Murska is the scummier of the two.
Give three suspects and a false compromise is possible.
Dividing the votes is critical here. Pelican is voting for me, for example, and that's literally enough to cause 4 votes.
Unless town votes for someone and gets 5 votes, it's impossible for town to win except by a coin flip.
How could it NOT occur to you? How is that even possible?
It's like being willing to vote for Pizza or GH when both are wrong choices.
It's the same tactic over and over. Give two wrong choices so some townie latches on to one of them.
@Pelican wake up!
I can't do this without everyone in my town here, present, accounted for, and voting!
We're already relying on a neutral's vote! He's townier than you!
Not quoting because it's hard to cut quotes up on mobile, but the comment from Atheotes about not wanting to lynch me came after I appreciated his post breaking down the post-khaan info. Other than that case looks solid.
We can at least force the 4-4.
That's an unnecessary 50/50 chance but given how crap I played I'll take it.
Eh, whatever.
Unvote
Vote: Pizza
Too much work to appease probable scum in an already-lost game.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Christ.
My wife wants to spend some time with me before bed, it's after 10pm here.
I can't stay. I need @Pelican 's vote to move.
Last call: If I do not have the exact team correct, then
@atheotes and @Montmorency
You guys need to move your votes and let Murska swing. I actually need one of you to vote for Murska to be safe.
I'd love to be exactly correct here, it would do my sanity a lot of good, but just in case I'm wrong.
Lost cause on one of you, probably both. But I refuse to not cover all the bases if this is my final post of the game.
Don't let it be 4-4.
Wrong. You create an alternative with one member, not all three at once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
What were you saying the other day, you couldn't count with my vote for parity? :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Yeah, meaning the game is locked / ends if there's not enough townies. For those purposes, your vote doesn't count.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riedquat
Turns out we did and do need you. The good news is there's really no reason for the scums to kill you even if you vote with town, so if it's a 4-4 tie, and you're afraid that not holding your vote where it is will cost you a win, they have to chew through GH and me first or they will lose.
So you've earned your townie wings in my book.
If you were worried I never call you townie, well, you are one now. Even if you're not.
I like Riedquat's paranoid theory. But I'm a sucker for in-universe clues. Even though Zack said that the knowledge of the universe would not help solving the game, he can be screwing with us nevertheless.
What I can't wrap my head around is why Dr. Ogden Wernstrom or Donbot, for that matter, would be "solid" cover roles for scum. For Larry (human) the cover was Elzar (alien). Pizza claimed Kif, who is another alien, so it'd be a point against Pizza.
I've always been Pizza's fanboi, I desperately want him to be town, but I won't regret losing to him, because I've been entertained.
So, Riedquat claimed neutral, and for this to be lylo, we need at least another 3rd party, who I assume is Pelican (Fry). I don't remember Pelican claiming neutral, but no one else counterclaimed.
If not me, not Riedquat, not Pelican, not DP, not GH, not Pizza, we have exactly Murska, atheotes and Monty left. The less-than-solid cover role makes me hesitant about Murska. Monty seems too reckless to be scum. I'm most convinced about atheotes. But I guess I have to do more paperwork to figure out who are the two scums among GH/Pizza/Murska/Monty.
Vote: atheotes
:stare::laugh4::stare::laugh4::dizzy2::inquisitive:
4 votes: Murska (GeneralHankerchief, Askthepizzaguy, Dp101, Riedquat)
2 votes: Al Sipsclar (atheotes, Montmorency)
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Pelican, Murska)
1 votes: Atheotes (Al sipsclar)
This can go so wrong....
There's two people on Pizza that probably aren't going to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riedquat
There's three other votes spread around, two of them from people who have lodged utterly WTF votes and promise to come back later to "closer examine the situation".
If Monty switches to Pizza then atheotes and Al Sipsclar could very well jump out of friggin nowhere and put the killshot in on Pizza.
So we're dependent on Monty - whose feelings towards Pizza are pretty well known - and atheotes, who has been top of the class at the Charlie Day School of Wild Card Philosophy, in the final rounds.
I don't think I've ever seen the future more clearly in my life.
Unfortunately, there are 10 cigarettes there.
Look at this post.
LOOK AT IT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murska
THIS IS NOT A TOWNIE TRYING TO WIN.
ASIJHGOADJHGL:JKJALKSHKJG
Tell you what: I'll vote Pizza in the last 10 minutes, then, as per usual for this game, we make it CFD.
Just vote for Murska and keep us all alive and me sane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Al, get on Murska, NOW. You called him mafia, and we lose if the votes are spread. We need to vote together or mafia will just switch last second.
It's a pretty blatant distancing attempt/hedge. I think you'll have better luck appealing to Monty. Maybe atheotes if Pelican is our third.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
- Give it to me straight, doctor, don't sugarcoat it.
- Very well. Your entire family died when a plane piloted by your fiancée crashed into your uninsured home. And you have inoperable cancer.
Vote: Murska
Look, if I don't think Murska is scum, then this is a loss anyway. I'm fatalistic about these things. I mean, I tried - what more do you want? A dayvig pulled out of my butt, killing one and lynching the next? I've said what I could and every time Pizza gets stronger. Al Sipsclar drops a scorn vote and you can't even be bothered to make his wagon happen.
Of course.
:laugh4: I have suspected some townies. voted for some. My top suspect is yet to be resolved thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
But you...voted for every townie that has been lynched. Unable to find any scum through tracking. have you suddenly become so poor at reading the game? I dont think so.
There is no explanation for why are you still alive other than you being scum. Reason i am not voting you is because of the Winston-JHT track result you provided and I dont think it makes sense for scum tracker.
Tally as of post 2862:
Lynch votes
5 votes: Murska (GeneralHankerchief, Askthepizzaguy, Dp101, Riedquat, Al Sipsclar)
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Pelican, Murska)
2 votes: Al Sipsclar (atheotes, Montmorency)
Voting history:Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Voting ends in:
Well duh. Of course it's not a townie trying to win. It's a townie not caring anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
wow...D1 rvs vote is part of your analysis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
one softclaim bothers you but the other is a major scum tell. Scum have cover roles. Townies dont.
I have made my case on GH. My case on GH is a "possible" one as you say. when are townies cases ever conclusive? Yet you are sure he is town. Based on what?
Murska has been scummy. but not the top of my POE. I am more positive about Al because of his iso and the omgus vote post.
Anyways, i need to go now. I know i am one of the reasons this is only a possible LYLO.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Vote: Al Sipsclar
Why?
I'm letting the stars guide me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
Ok, but just so you know if we lose and you are not mafia and Murska is I am blaming you for the loss.
Tally as of post 2870:
Lynch votes
4 votes: Murska (Askthepizzaguy, Dp101, Riedquat, Al Sipsclar)
3 votes: Al Sipsclar (atheotes, Montmorency, GeneralHankerchief)
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Pelican, Murska)
Voting history:Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Voting ends in:
I have to go eat dinner and won't be around at lynch. We lost anyway unless a townie wakes up and we can get 5 on one target.
You are killing me GH...Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
You should be blaming me for being the perfect patsy in General's evil plans. Well done, GH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_SeVyzFxA8
I'm going to be so pissed off if we lose because of a random vote. I mean, there is a decent chance that GH is allied with Pizza given the former's attitude towards the latter today, but if so then I'm really not sure who the final town could be.
So, hi mafia, you all gonna switch onto al at :59, right? And then I get to be salty? Alternatively Pizza and General are mafia and Murska is innocent, and then I get to be more salty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack
still sameQuote:
Originally Posted by Zack
Al sips is a better lynch than Murska. Just check the post where he voted meQuote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
If any town are still not on Murska, please switch. Regardless of if it is the right choice, we need to have 5 on one candidate or we lose no matter what. If we have 4 and 1, then mafia can always lynch the 1 (unless both are mafia, but unlikely). However, if we have 5 then we only lose if the guy with 5 on them is town. The point I'm trying to make is that having 4 on 1 always results in a loss.