*Sigh* The Dating Scene

So as I am sure you all know I recently ended a relationship of a year. So I'm back in the game...... sex i not an issue. This week i've had two partners and it isn't the issue at all. Sex is sort of meaningless as an end result to me anyway. I relish two things at this point. I crave the hunt and the kill, i.e. getting to the point where I hook up and I enjoy companionship.

The first I can sate, the second is proving difficult. I don't even want a sexual conenction with the girl necessarily just a female friend. I went shopping in the city yesterday with a friend who I hooked up with last year (I don't even really want too again). I simply wanted to hang out and like I enjoy her company. Now her boyfriend objects and doesn't want us too hang out.

...... damn it's the companionship you miss more than anything.

Sex without love is pointless. Portraying the act of hooking up as "the hunt" dehumanizes women.

-gets off soapbox-

I agree companionship is important, I think the fact that some of my closest friends are female has made me kinda complacent about getting a girlfriend. There's something about hanging out with girls that makes it better than hanging out with guys, even when there's no intimacy involved.

Lol. So you want to get in the friendzone? I apologise but I cannot help.

However, as I've posted I better contribute in some way: Cougar's are pretty fun.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

The friend zone is a lie. You can attack with success from the friend zone, so long as you are a creature of patience, and few scruples. :angel:

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Of course it is, but many men need to mask their inferiority behind a model so they can fool themselves into thinking they have totally figured out how women work.

Many women try the same in reverse of course. The world of dating is so full of prejudices that feeble, insecure men like me would rather stay out of it entirely.

There's really nothing you can do about being doomed. Except cry.

:laugh4: Lies?!? :laugh4:

Do I really need to make my jokes any more obvious than that? :sweatdrop:

Except for the first sentence, that contains nothing but the truth. People create models for things they don't understand, to reduce the complexity of reality.
As such any model about the behaviour of women doesn't do the real complexity of the female soul any justice. Neither do all men always think about that one thing (proof!) as women like to claim.

That said I would like to retreat to my corner and cry a little now.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Sex without love is pointless.

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Disagree.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Disagree.

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Well you're wrong. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Well you're wrong. Sorry.

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Is that not a matter of personal preference? How can he be "wrong" about it?

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Is that not a matter of personal preference? How can he be "wrong" about it?

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It was just me acting stupid. I wasn't being serious.\

Obviously if he gets something out of casual sex, then he has created a meaning from it. I just know there is nothing for me personally to gain from it, so I feel it is pointless.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Casual sex certainly has its place, for both sexes. It's not just men preying on unsuspecting women who all think that they're going to get a husband and a baby out of it! Women are naughty too.

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Casual sex has become a way for people to gain self esteem and feel better about themselves. This is backwards imo, because you are inherently depending on someone else to provide you with your self esteem by offering or accepting your request for sex. A man or a woman should strive to be as independent as possible, to value his or herself because of accomplishments or goals that did not depend on another person's acquiescence. I am not saying people should reserve themselves until marriage, but if you are having casual sex for anything but pleasure then you are doing it wrong. And if you are doing it just for pleasure, then that is fine, but it nevertheless is hollow and pointless.

Acin ,That is your point of view,coming from your perspective and i can respect it. Still people are living in lots of different life situations and for example some might have lived through a marriage already. Some might prefer to live alone depending on their situation.Still sex is a basic urge for humans. Most things which give pleasure to humans could be painted as hollow or pointless.
You do not need to eat a chocolate bar to survive, still many like their sweets.Your survival does not depend upon the slightest if you drink alcohol and for example like to have a nice glass of single malt once a while. You do not need nice clothes or a cell phone,flat screen tv or an computer to survive. Still people want these things in their life. For some these might make themselves feel better about themselves, just like to some achieving something else might have the same effect.
If we look deep enough into anything, conclusion might be that it is more or less pointless.But in the end is not such scrutiny pointless also? My personal belief is that what ever makes a human happy should be allowed to him/ her as long as it does not hurt others. Who are we to judge what pleasure is better for anyone compared to something else.

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if you are doing it just for pleasure, then that is fine, but it nevertheless is hollow and pointless.

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Hollow and pointless? That is not true even psychologically, nevermind physically /friendly wag of the finger

You are certainly aware intercourse increases your immunity, truly improves your sleep – both the crucial REM and the normal, non-REM phases – relieves a lot of stress, part of which would be caused by the lack of it, allows you to generate Oxytocin and reduces blood pressure among other, less studied positive effects.
Having sex regularly is always a good for you biologically. Always being in a relationship is not.

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Originally Posted by Tuuvi

I agree companionship is important, I think the fact that some of my closest friends are female has made me kinda complacent about getting a girlfriend. There's something about hanging out with girls that makes it better than hanging out with guys, even when there's no intimacy involved.

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That's so gay just sayin'

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Acin ,That is your point of view,coming from your perspective and i can respect it. Still people are living in lots of different life situations and for example some might have lived through a marriage already. Some might prefer to live alone depending on their situation.Still sex is a basic urge for humans. Most things which give pleasure to humans could be painted as hollow or pointless.

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You have said most things. So you recognize there are things that could not be painted in such a way correct?

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You do not need to eat a chocolate bar to survive, still many like their sweets.Your survival does not depend upon the slightest if you drink alcohol and for example like to have a nice glass of single malt once a while. You do not need nice clothes or a cell phone,flat screen tv or an computer to survive. Still people want these things in their life. For some these might make themselves feel better about themselves, just like to some achieving something else might have the same effect.
If we look deep enough into anything, conclusion might be that it is more or less pointless.But in the end is not such scrutiny pointless also? My personal belief is that what ever makes a human happy should be allowed to him/ her as long as it does not hurt others. Who are we to judge what pleasure is better for anyone compared to something else.

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My answer to the bold part is no. The part underlined I agree with, for the most part. The last sentence is just wrong.

Who are we to judge if someone's alcoholism is better or not than someone taking joy out of doing a hard days work? It's blatantly throwing away all reality for the sake of not offending anyone. Somethings are just better than others. There are constructive activities which are fun and there are destructive activities which are fun. To equate all pleasure on the same level is silly. I am not saying that anyone having casual sex is morally wrong, I am just saying it is an error in judgement.

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Originally Posted by Nowake

Hollow and pointless? That is not true even psychologically, nevermind physically /friendly wag of the finger

You are certainly aware intercourse increases your immunity, truly improves your sleep – both the crucial REM and the normal, non-REM phases – relieves a lot of stress, part of which would be caused by the lack of it, allows you to generate Oxytocin and reduces blood pressure among other, less studied positive effects.
Having sex regularly is always a good for you biologically. Always being in a relationship is not.

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This all seems silly. I am talking about building character and you are bring up how well you sleep after you fill up a condom.

Do you mean to tell me that you have sex to build up your immunity? Or to have a good night sleep? Sure I can see having sex to relieve stress, but stress isn't exactly the demon it is painted out to be.

You have told me before the psychological benefits of casual sex, but as far as I can remember from what you wrote, my complaint at the time (I don't think I posted this though) was that even if it was true, and that casual sex worked for many people, that still doesn't make it the correct choice (and I am not talking about morals here).

I think you are getting the underlined sentence wrong.I can speak from personal experience as one of my parent´s is an alcoholic to the point that it has completely destroyed her life. The situation you describe does hurt others. In ths case us being her family. So it is your interpration of my words that is wrong one, not my words.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

I think you are getting the underlined sentence wrong.I can speak from personal experience as one of my parent´s is an alcoholic to the point that it has completely destroyed her life.

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I'm sorry. :bow: I have a loved one who has experienced the same thing.

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The situation you describe does hurt others. In ths case us being her family. So it is your interpration of my words that is wrong one, not my words.

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But this is my question to you. So there is a point where a person engaging in destructive behavior can cause harm to others by greatly harming his/herself. So at what point do you draw the line and say that a certain amount of self destruction starts rippling towards other people? Is there a degree of self destruction that is ok? As far as I know, no one wants anything bad to happen to someone they care about whether it is big or small. So to me, it seems any amount of self destruction is hurtful towards other people who care for that individual. So the statement "as long as it doesn't hurt others" makes me want to take a step back and say, what exactly does this mean? Of course I was going to misinterpret your words, because I do not know what your words mean.

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Originally Posted by ACIN

Do you mean to tell me that you have sex to build up your immunity? Or to have a good night sleep? Sure I can see having sex to relieve stress, but stress isn't exactly the demon it is painted out to be.

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Err, yes of course I do. That is not to say, pleasure is not a big incentive.
I believe I was twelve when my mother (both my parents are physicians) gave me the first talking to about sex (I wasn’t active at the time, don’t get any ideas) – she was mainly concerned with informing me about every risk in detail and how to avoid them, yet she also delicately outlined the necessity for a good sex life.
Building up on that through disparate lectures at various points in my life, I do go through life with the knowledge that not having sex is very unhealthy for me, and that it will negatively affect my professional performance and social interactions.

P.S. Oh and you've no idea how insidious stress proves to be; it's almost impossible to self-asses the degree to which you're experiencing it.

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that casual sex worked for many people, that still doesn't make it the correct choice (and I am not talking about morals here)

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Then what are you talking about? Because any sort of negative biological repercussion is totally avoidable.

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Originally Posted by Nowake

Err, yes of course I do. That is not to say, pleasure is not a big incentive.
I believe I was twelve when my mother (both my parents are physicians) gave me the first talking to about sex (I wasn’t active at the time, don’t get any ideas) – she was mainly concerned with informing me about every risk in detail and how to avoid them, yet she also delicately outlined the necessity for a good sex life.
Building up on that through disparate lectures at various points in my life, I do go through life with the knowledge that not having sex is very unhealthy for me, and that it will negatively affect my professional performance and social interactions.

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Well, I guess you got me there. If you really are having casual sex so you can stay healthy, (I assume you make sure that doesn't backfire by getting an STD), then it isn't completely pointless on a physical level. However, as I explained, I wasn't stressing the physical part.

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P.S. Oh and you've no idea how insidious stress proves to be; it's almost impossible to self-asses the degree to which you're experiencing it.

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I disagree about that. I don't know what your job is, maybe you are a surgeon and really do take on the stress, but if I take a moment to collect myself and try to be more aware of what I am feeling and acting, I can tell how off key I am due to the stress. I got my finals starting monday, so it isn't like I am sitting here completely chill.

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Then what are you talking about? Because any sort of negative biological repercussion is totally avoidable.

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Ok so you got a safe that has something valuable inside that you want, maybe even need. You got time, and a stethoscope to carefully work out what the combo might be. OR, you got a bunch of dynamite that can blow the entire door to smithereens and you, if you are not careful. Both of these tactics work, but one is more volatile and has a greater chance of hurting you. Do you see what I am trying to say with this ridiculous analogy?

EDIT: Unfortunately, it is way too late for me to be up longer. I need 8 hours of sleep and I need to study for at least 8 hours tomorrow. I will read any responses tomorrow and try to reply as soon as possible.

Surely. Night night ACIN :curtain:

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Originally Posted by ACIN

However, as I explained, I wasn't stressing the physical part. (...)

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Well, you were talking about casual sex on the whole as hollow and pointless.

That aside, I have written about its psychological implications as well just above. Its impact on REM sleep, which has a crucial role in placating depression and enhancing your cognitive and memory skills, on Oxytocin secretion and on alleviating stress are all almost exclusively concerning your psyche.

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Originally Posted by ACIN

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Originally Posted by Nowake

Then what are you talking about? Because any sort of negative biological repercussion is totally avoidable.

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Ok so you got a safe that has something valuable inside that you want, maybe even need. You got time, and a stethoscope to carefully work out what the combo might be. OR, you got a bunch of dynamite that blow the entire door to smithereens and you, if you are not careful. Both of these tactics work, but one is more volatile and has a greater chance of hurting you. Do you see what I am trying to say with this ridiculous analogy?

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Hmmmm mmnot really? :bow:
If we are not discussing morals, and we have established it has very beneficial psychological and physical consequences while any sort of negative biological repercussions are avoidable, how exactly is casual sexual intercourse “blowing” you away into pointlessness and hollowness? (no pun intended)
What you are perhaps referring to is not sexual intercourse, but your human relationship with your partner, which is something that in practice “blows up” in short and long term relationships in equal measure, with the caveat that while you may physically experience short term relationships with increased frequency, you also detach yourself from any negative fallout more easily, while in long term relationships, many people become genuine emotional cripples after an “explosion”, to keep to your analogy.
Nevertheless, unrelated to sexual intercourse between mature unattached responsible partners.

'You have told me before the psychological benefits of casual sex, but as far as I can remember from what you wrote, my complaint at the time (I don't think I posted this though) was that even if it was true, and that casual sex worked for many people, that still doesn't make it the correct choice (and I am not talking about morals here). '

Nothing wrong with it either, unless you somehow believe that deep down that girl wanting sex is really desperate for her daddy to safe her from you. So archaic to think women have no will of their own

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Well you're wrong. Sorry.

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Why? I've read through the thread and I still haven't figured it out.

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Originally Posted by Nowake

Surely. Night night ACIN :curtain:

Well, you were talking about casual sex on the whole as hollow and pointless.

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Well, I am an idiot for being so broad. I think that from a psychological perspective, the benefits of casual sex are hollow and pointless because there are other activities that can provide the same benefit without having the individual to place his/her trust in another individual to provide attention and gratification.

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That aside, I have written about its psychological implications as well just above. Its impact on REM sleep, which has a crucial role in placating depression and enhancing your cognitive and memory skills, on Oxytocin secretion and on alleviating stress are all almost exclusively concerning your psyche.

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This is so far off from what I am trying to talk about though. Having a good night's sleep is fine and all for day to day sanity, but buying a more comfortable bed doesn't make you more psychologically stable overall.

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Hmmmm mmnot really? :bow:
If we are not discussing morals, and we have established it has very beneficial psychological and physical consequences while any sort of negative biological repercussions are avoidable, how exactly is casual sexual intercourse “blowing” you away into pointlessness and hollowness? (no pun intended)
What you are perhaps referring to is not sexual intercourse, but your human relationship with your partner, which is something that in practice “blows up” in short and long term relationships in equal measure, with the caveat that while you may physically experience short term relationships with increased frequency, you also detach yourself from any negative fallout more easily, while in long term relationships, many people become genuine emotional cripples after an “explosion”, to keep to your analogy.
Nevertheless, unrelated to sexual intercourse between mature unattached responsible partners.

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What I am talking about is that instead of trying to "find yourself" in this world by having brief, fleeting actions of pleasure with numerous people, it is more constructive and healthy imo, to do other activities that have you building your character through self trials that allow to discover yourself through an internal process. There is nothing morally wrong about anything I am arguing against, but I get annoyed at seeing overly hedonistic behavior on tv where dysfunctional people are plentiful (and glorified) and then at the same time have the argument in front of me that clubbing for sex is actually turning out very healthy people.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

'You have told me before the psychological benefits of casual sex, but as far as I can remember from what you wrote, my complaint at the time (I don't think I posted this though) was that even if it was true, and that casual sex worked for many people, that still doesn't make it the correct choice (and I am not talking about morals here). '

Nothing wrong with it either, unless you somehow believe that deep down that girl wanting sex is really desperate for her daddy to safe her from you. So archaic to think women have no will of their own

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I have already stated I find nothing morally wrong with casual sex. So drop the trolling.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Why? I've read through the thread and I still haven't figured it out.

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I wasn't being serious about you being factually wrong. Everything I am saying is merely my opinion.

Idk, maybe I should just accept that I am an old traditionalist at heart, start watching The Andy Griffith Show and lament the end of the good ole days.

Mmmno, I wouldn't go that far in what you're concerned.

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dysfunctional people are plentiful (and glorified) and then at the same time have the argument in front of me that clubbing for sex is actually turning out very healthy people

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I still believe you're just not addressing the right issue i.e. those people have not become dysfunctional because of their hedonism, but rather due to their IQ, education and values, or lack thereof, which in turn led them to a depraved life, using sex to assuage their existential anxieties.
And I'd side with you on the somewhat disgusting side of clubbing for sex. Personally, I can't help connecting my visits to certain clubs with strolls to the Zoo.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

I have already stated I find nothing morally wrong with casual sex. So drop the trolling.

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Dear diary, today I once again didn't read every word ACIN shared with the world, I know it's wrong because it's so very very important and deep down I know I should care

Going to bed without tea

ACIN. I wouldn't say casual sex is meaningless, in fact I wouldn't say it is any less meaningless than anything in life. The actual act of casual sex, like the actual act of a wedding, is by itself entirely meaningless. However, if you take into account the principles and emotions it carries with it, it does however gain meaning. It is the embodiment of rebellion, freedom and passion. In the same way that a wedding embodies fidelity and commitment.

Casual sex is not about seeking some form of permanence or transcendence. It is merely aimed at the excitement and experience of the moment. As it goes, death is coming, why not get the maximum quantity out of one life? In the end isn't it all meaningful in our minds and simultaneously meaningless, an echo, in a hollow universe?

How many times did that one work

Yeahyeah but that was awesome Psychonaut, you should do screenwriting. Imagine text in scene where guy picks up stupid girl

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Casual sex is not about seeking some form of permanence or transcendence. It is merely aimed at the excitement and experience of the moment. As it goes, death is coming, why not get the maximum quantity out of one life? In the end isn't it all meaningful in our minds and simultaneously meaningless, an echo, in a hollow universe?

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I find it really existentialism really hard to appreciate.

It's surprising to me that more individuals don't follow the lead of the people in this video:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_qMagfZtv8&ob=av2e

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Originally Posted by Nowake

Mmmno, I wouldn't go that far in what you're concerned.

I still believe you're just not addressing the right issue i.e. those people have not become dysfunctional because of their hedonism, but rather due to their IQ, education and values, or lack thereof, which in turn led them to a depraved life, using sex to assuage their existential anxieties.
And I'd side with you on the somewhat disgusting side of clubbing for sex. Personally, I can't help connecting my visits to certain clubs with strolls to the Zoo.

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You have a solid point about how they got to that point. However, the activity itself I feel, is like a feedback loop that perpetuates such dysfunction because it is a risky path towards self discovery and character building. There are many people who do come from affluent backgrounds, with proper (more or less) schooling and a perfectly fine IQ who get into the clubbing scene and degenerate as a person. You are right about the lifestyle not actively causing anyone psychological problems, but I would say that it does have the potential to accelerate such problems.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Dear diary, today I once again didn't read every word ACIN shared with the world, I know it's wrong because it's so very very important and deep down I know I should care

Going to bed without tea

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For someone wondering if he is depressed, you still got quite a fire underneath you Frag. <3 Btw, I read everything you say.....

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Originally Posted by Psychonaut

ACIN. I wouldn't say casual sex is meaningless, in fact I wouldn't say it is any less meaningless than anything in life. The actual act of casual sex, like the actual act of a wedding, is by itself entirely meaningless. However, if you take into account the principles and emotions it carries with it, it does however gain meaning. It is the embodiment of rebellion, freedom and passion. In the same way that a wedding embodies fidelity and commitment.

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When has casual sex embodied rebellion and freedom and passion? You are harping back to the 1960s and 1970s, when merely talking about such things was a social error in most situations. Sex since the 1980s is ubiquitous and is the farthest thing from rebellion, freedom and passion now. It's now a tool for marketing, shoved in our faces everyday, saturated in our culture. It's dull. It is the status quo for today's society, not the counterculture. Look at the shows that revolve around sex and partying. When do the characters do anything but sex and partying (and drama)? Such freedom they enjoy! The freedom to glorify never reading a book or shutting up for a day. In the 1960s, free love not free sex was the catchphrase.

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Casual sex is not about seeking some form of permanence or transcendence. It is merely aimed at the excitement and experience of the moment. As it goes, death is coming, why not get the maximum quantity out of one life? In the end isn't it all meaningful in our minds and simultaneously meaningless, an echo, in a hollow universe?

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So casual sex is rebellious but isn't about transcending the culture you are rebelling against? So it's like I said, hollow and pointless?

We are privileged to have these lives. To have these thoughts. To have the capacity to communicate about abstract ideas and have this conversation in the first place. And instead of challenging ourselves to find out who we really are, instead of taking this opportunity we have to learn before our short time is over, we bask ourselves in primal feelings and actions and declare it to be on the same level as anything else because, hey, nothing means anything right?

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

For someone wondering if he is depressed, you still got quite a fire underneath you Frag.

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Oh that, didn't last

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Yeahyeah but that was awesome Psychonaut, you should do screenwriting. Imagine text in scene where guy picks up stupid girl

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Hey, what can I say, I like my girls like I like my prog rock. Slow.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

And instead of challenging ourselves to find out who we really are, instead of taking this opportunity we have to learn before our short time is over, we bask ourselves in primal feelings and actions and declare it to be on the same level as anything else because, hey, nothing means anything right?

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You got it buddeh! :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Psychonaut

It is the embodiment of rebellion, freedom and passion.

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First one, makes you sound like a troublesome teenager.

Second one, sorry, already reserved for cars and airplanes.

Third one, well, it's casual, artists often have passion, but not the casual ones. :dizzy2: Don't confuse passion and lust.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

What if we have a passion for lust?

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There are special clubs for that, but when you're passionate about something, how is it casual? ~;)

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Sex without love is pointless. Portraying the act of hooking up as "the hunt" dehumanizes women.

-gets off soapbox-

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I agree entirely.

The point of sex is to get off (apart from the whole baby making thing). In my opinion, it does not have to go beyond that to be a meaningful experience. Wrapping it in unnecessary emotional layers is a choice, but not an objectionably better choice.

1. Fragony delivers

2, I agree with Rythmic

well, there is the option of become a guy like me: some cantankerous guy who only cares about making money and doing his "duty" to society and family, in the process showing a complete disregard for the importance of building any relationship not immediately applicable to your work (there are exceptions here, but they're all men, since women are a distraction, and you'll be too busy for them anyways).

of course, I do not recommend this option, because it sucks, and people hate you when you take it. especially if you live in America, where apparently being a teenager doesn't end until you are 25...possibly even never in about 20% of the population of this generation. explains why I get along better with older people...

yes, that's what I've been doing while I was rarely posting lately; growing more cynical than ever...

We are here on earth to muck about. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Told a girl today "It's not you, it's me" and she laughed at me lol. Not the response I expected!

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That line is only the tiniest bit overused. At least you gave her a better explenation than just that?
Or it could be that she was also thinking of calling it a day and was relieved.