The Midgard Saga II [Concluded]

[Andres]

Well !@#$ that takes the wind out of my sails with Motep and Traitorix. They've been online and could have sent a kill pm before Sigurd closed the window for night pm's.

Or they didn't send in the pm for a second kill to avoid even more suspicion...

Or the Jotun have other night actions available to them.

While I am insulted at PrivateerKev's accusations, I can only say that I dont blame him for suspecting me. (I dont exactly have the best track record in so far as being active...just look at my other games...). At least he is getting something done.

I like Andres' method of holmang, pick two suspects and have them duke it out. If you really suspect them, you can always lynch the survivor on the next day. Our current method is notoriously random and dangerous to the town, despite the fact that it is just soo much fun!

To speak on my behalf, I would have particiapated sooner, but for the fact that I went camping with my Father this weekend, proving myself to be an incompetent fisherman.

Right. Had we a kill action, we woould have gotten a pretty little write up, even were it stopped. Unless of course, our host is lazy, which I have yet to see signs of.

Then again, they could have all attacked one guy, but that lacks sense and would have likely been evident in the write up.

Hmmm...

I don't like those posts.

Vote : Motep

[Motep]

Or they didn't send in the pm for a second kill to avoid even more suspicion...

Or the Jotun have other night actions available to them.







Hmmm...

I don't like those posts.

Vote : Motep

I was just trying to be helpful...

Vote: Andres

[Andres]

I was just trying to be helpful...

Vote: Andres

- You were insulted at PK's accusations, yet you didn't blame him;
- You say it's better to try to do something useful with the holmgang, yet the random method is more fun;
- a kill action would have given us a nice write-up, unless the host is lazy, but you didn't see signs of laziness
- they could have all attacked one guy, but that doesn't make sense.

You are trying to look a bit too helpful for my taste.

And why did you vote me? Just because I voted you or are there other elements?

[Privateerkev]

Ah, just found something from the last game that could help with explaining the write-ups:

The Valhalla quotient just snapped into place for me. Notation at death that they arise to Valhalla indicates their status as being some form of warrior and not Jotun (or possibly a thrall who actually beats the odds and wins a holmgang proving he has the heart of a warrior).

Those who do not arise to Valhalla are either God [no need], Jotun [bad] or thrall [no warrior prowess].

So, lets look at where the victims have gone:

Twilightblade:

He was no longer sleeping on the ground. The ground rushed below him and his face was full of sweet smelling golden hair. He looked up and into the back of a young and apparently beautiful woman. “Ah there you are handsome.” She turned and he looked right into a pair of the most beautiful blue eyes he had ever seen. “I am taking you home, handsome. Please hold me, I am rather cold”. Twilightblade grabbed the lithe body in front of him and wished this ride would never end.

The men of Jorvik were in full panoply when they found one of their warriors with an eternal smile frozen on his face, lying on the ground.

So, a warrior from Jorvik.

CountArach:

The volunteer walked slowly up to CountArach and stood before him. He leaned over and the crowd knew he was about the whisper the ritual words, but instead he said: “I know who you are old man, this time it is me who wins”. CountArach’s eyes widened and before he could react, the volunteer had pierced the mortal guise of CountArach with a sword and the life force quickly drained from him.

The crowd cheered and the law speaker asked which Kingdom CountArach did belong to. The men of the kingdoms all looked at each other and shrugged. “You mean to say that no one here knew this guy?” Again the crowd shrugged.

CountArach found himself walking on a fine path towards a large building. The people he met bowed in reverence and looked to the ground. He barely noticed as he pondered the latest event. That executioner at the Thing, was he the one he suspected? If so, Midgard was in dire trouble.

From a tree next to the building he heard the ‘Kra’ from some birds. CountArach smiled. It was after all good to be home.

As has been discussed before, I think we can safely assume CA was Odin. If he sticks around and posts, I suggest we give weight to what he says.

makaikhaan:

As makai hits the ground, Kukri’s sword pierces makai’s torso. The fight is as fast over as it started, with makai lying on the ground. But this time it is a sword which is pinning him to the ground. He grasps for breath, but can’t find any and darkness soon envelope him.


The crowd dispersed and left makaikhaan’s body to his Norwegian friends. They all stared after Kukrikhaan and the rest of the Danes leaving the scene with merriments over the spawn of the mountain goat’s misfortune.

No Valhalla. But Norse. My guess is townie.

Caius:

Later one of them, Caius, takes a swallow of water from one of the casks that stand in the middle of the Danish camp. He thinks it has a funny aftertaste but thinks naught of it. He never sees the dwarf sitting nearby with a sly smile on his face.
As Caius nears his bedroll, he feels very tired. When he finally closes his eyes, it is if he never will be able to open them again.

The following morning the Danish camp is in uproar. One of their men is found sleeping the endless sleep and they immediately suspect the dirty Norwegians for this foul trick of cowardice.

No Valhalla. But Danish. My guess is townie.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andres has a point. Motep and/or Tratorix could have just withheld their pm(s).

As for multiple Jotun attacking one person, in Midgard 1 it was allowed but it didn't happen. It took two kills to take out a God so Sigurd said in that game he would allow Jotun to double-up. But I saw nothing in Caius's death write-up that showed God-hood like what we saw with CA's.

Here is Sigurd on the subject in the last game:

The Jotun knew they had to attack the Gods twice to remove them from the game. I put in their pm the solution to get rid of a God in one shot by sending two Jotun to do the deed but they never used this feature.

[TinCow]

I don't think a whole lot can be deduced from the most recent kill. It could easily be true that Tratorix or Motep are Jotun and that was why there was only one kill on N1. When they then realized that suspicion would be thrown on them by killing more than one person, they then refrained from other kills to lessen the damage to them. It could also easily be the case that the Jotun have simply chosen to only kill one person per night for their own reasons, as noted by Andres above. I really don't feel like one of these options is stronger than the other, so I'm inclined to give more weight to other factors for the moment.

Vote: Motep exclusively for his retaliatory vote, not for anything to do with the kills. I'll probably change this vote later, but consider this my method of scolding people for being unhelpful.

[Motep]

- You were insulted at PK's accusations, yet you didn't blame him;

No I do not. I know that I appear to be a scummy lurker...it helps to aviod confrontations like this, which tends, for me, to rob these games of their fun.

- You say it's better to try to do something useful with the holmgang, yet the random method is more fun;

Exactly. Randomness is most fun, but not very useful.

- a kill action would have given us a nice write-up, unless the host is lazy, but you didn't see signs of laziness

Thus, there was no other kill action. I know, I have left that stuff out on account as I was busy with something else and just neglected to put it in.

- they could have all attacked one guy, but that doesn't make sense.

Well, it doesnt, unless a protecting person can only block one kill on his ward, whereas the multi attack would be useful.

You are trying to look a bit too helpful for my taste.

And why did you vote me? Just because I voted you or are there other elements?

Retaliation, and I have no one better to vote for right now.

[Privateerkev]

The Jotun could definitely have other night actions.

In Midgard 1, there were 3 Jotun but always 2 kills a night. That always puzzled me. But then I remember that one of the Jotun had the night action of messing with messages that one of the Gods send to other players at night.

(And yes I realize that in that game Loki switched over to Jotun but he didn't last long after that once Heimdall set his sights on him. So they were briefly at 4 but went back to 3.)

But that doesn't work out right. In Round 7 and 8 the Jotun were still doing 2 kills a night, and sending fake messages, when they were down to only 2 people.

So, gah...

So, in the last game, it seemed that 2 or 3 Jotun were allowed 2 kills a night. 1 Jotun left allowed 1 kill a night according to Sigurd but they never got to that point. They were allowed other night actions but that seemed to not impact on their ability to do kills.

[pevergreen]

Vote: KukriKhan

I am going to Challange KK if he lives, from the fight and how he is posting, he is definately triggering my mafia sense, which doesnt get triggered very often.

I am prepared to reveal, as last night I was blessed by the gods...

[seireikhaan]

Well, I guess that makes me the ugly, extinct bird.

Right now, I'm at a loss for ideas. I don't think Motep is particularly scummy, and its quite possible that the Jotun are combining for kills just to be sure. I'll keep a watch and see if there's anything that twigs me.

[Tratorix]

Ok, I just had a thought. The Jotun are only killing one person per night for some reason. They could just be lazy and missing kill orders, but i'm thinking it's something more sinister. The Jotun's goal in this game is different from the average mafia game.

The Jotuns main object is to kill the Lords + the pro-town roles. If they are able to do so they will win.

The Jotun don't have to kill the basic townies. They just need to take out the power town roles and the Lords( a feat we made a lot easier for them by killing Odin). So, maybe the Jotun can investigate at night instead of kill. This would allow them to pinpoint which players they need to knock out, instead of wading through and killing everyone. This might explain why there have only been two night kills so far.

[pevergreen]

As mentioned before, I believe the Jotun are killing one a night to make sure if they get a "God" role, it is killed in one night.

[Tratorix]

As mentioned before, I believe the Jotun are killing one a night to make sure if they get a "God" role, it is killed in one night.

But why? If they hit a God, they could just finish them off the next night. Killing at this speed would make the game go painfully slowly for them. It doesn't seem to be very efficient, especially seeing as they might waste some nights on townies who really aren't much of a threat.

[FactionHeir]

That suggests one of the Jotun has played in the last game.

[Motep]

That suggests one of the Jotun has played in the last game.

Whuch does not significantly narrow the field.

[Tratorix]

Vote: Factionheir

So far your posts have been mainly small and inconsequential. Seems like someone trying to act like they're contributing while keeping their head down to me.

[Tratorix]

Vote: Factionheir

Didn't bold it the first time.

[glyphz]

Piecing together what's being discussed by everyone, I came up with a grim theory...
If there's supposed to be 2 deaths each night, and a single attack won't kill a pro-town god, it is possible that 1 of the supposed Jotun-target at N1 was actually a god, thus it failed.
If so, a possible explanation to a single death in N2 is that the Jotun attacked the same person again, this time using a double-attacked the same guy to make sure they get rid of him.
Which could mean Caius was a pro-town god, w/c could explain him not going to Valhalla if Privateerkev is telling is indeed true...
Someone prove me wrong please...

[Privateerkev]

I haven't noticed FH acting any differently than he acted in Drunken Lawyer or Mafia VIII.

[pevergreen]

The Gods death's are different from normal warriors, read CA's death.

He walked through, with people bowing in reverance. He was home.

[Tratorix]

I haven't noticed FH acting any differently than he acted in Drunken Lawyer or Mafia VIII.

Kind of a gut feeling, don't read too much into it.

But, I can't see any better suspects, so it stays for now.

[Privateerkev]

Piecing together what's being discussed by everyone, I came up with a grim theory...
If there's supposed to be 2 deaths each night, and a single attack won't kill a pro-town god, it is possible that 1 of the supposed Jotun-target at N1 was actually a god, thus it failed.
If so, a possible explanation to a single death in N2 is that the Jotun attacked the same person again, this time using a double-attacked the same guy to make sure they get rid of him.
Which could mean Caius was a pro-town god, w/c could explain him not going to Valhalla if Privateerkev is telling is indeed true...
Oh, how much I wish I am wrong...

1.) In Midgard 1, failed attacks still had write-ups. So, if this game is the same, no write-up means no kill attempt at all.

2.) My bit from Valhalla comes from Midgard 1. It does not require you to believe me, only to read the old game.

I will try to make clear when I dig up information from the first game. And I should add the caveat that Sigurd could have significantly changed this game. So, reading Midgard 1 might not be helpful. (but it is entertaining...)

That being said, it's better than nothing. It seems some of the things in the first game are re-appearing in the second game so I wouldn't ignore the old game completely. Just understand that Sigurd might have changed things for this game.

[Craterus]

OK, it's getting too close to deadline time, and CA probably hasn't yet had his first cup of coffee yet, so vote it must be:

vote: CountArach

This post never made sense to me.

You seem to acknowledge that, due to timezone or whatever, he hadn't been able to log on and defend himself. I mean: you seem to suggest you want to hear more from him and then you put a vote on him.

Added with your ease in dispatching makaikhaan, I'm tempted to give you a vote. However, let's hear what you've got to say.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: Andres

Motep's always acted like this. I think you're going for the easy lynch.

[GeneralHankerchief]

By the way, I'm going to Holmgang challenge every chance I get, I don't care how suspicious this makes me look. Capo excluded, I haven't been assigned a mafioso role in well over a year and I'm pretty bored stiff of playing the townie role game after game. Holmgang was introduced in this series as a feature and I'm going to take well advantage of it. So you can instruct me who to challenge, rig it so I'm challenging a certain person, whatever. I'll do my usual townie work too. But I'm going to challenge every round, no matter what, because otherwise the game won't be fun for me.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

FoS: Kukrikhan

As Craterus said above, you wanted to hear from CA, but then with very little time remaining you threw a vote on him, without a chance to defend himself. Also from memory he was going to be lynched anyway, all you did was make sure that he wouldn't survive even if he got back and voted Warmaster.

If I'm mistaken I retract all the above, its early morning and I haven't had my usual coffee yet. Will be back later with more.

I'm not so concerned about him dispatching Khann, however. As Tincow mentioned above, it was likely that he was a mere townie. Also as I believe has been mentioned there is a certain amount of luck involved in Sigurd's method of deciding Holmgang

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The way I read things so far, Kev's analysis of the write ups parallels my own.


As to Holmgang results, all the write up of a battle involving a mortal will ever reveal (at least in a limited way) is the relative ability of the two participants. I read M'khaan's demise as "brave thrall bested by trained fighter." A champion/king/god/jotun would have waxed him more quickly. Not a lot to read into it with any surety after that.

IF v2 paralells v1, then Sigurd's Jotun's will have a holmgang of 7 or 8, with only the gods holding equal or better values at the outset. However, success in v1 did improve your ability a pip. This means that the most effective use of holmganging is for the king/jarl/champ to holmgang their scores up so that they can challenge jotuns with a fair chance (as opposed to very little) chance of success. This is most effectively accomplished by taking out weaker fighters and thralls -- without revealing yourself as a k/j/c and getting murdered at night.


Motep:

Your behavior is a bit suspicious, as Andres noted quickly. You have countered his points, but not with anything definitive.


Andres:

GH does have a point. I don't see enough of a clear picture to condemn Motep, even though you raised a good line of inquiry.

I will vote sometime during the morning. Meanwhile, let's hear more from Motep and Andres.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: KukriKhan

I am going to Challange KK if he lives, from the fight and how he is posting, he is definately triggering my mafia sense, which doesnt get triggered very often.

I am prepared to reveal, as last night I was blessed by the gods...

Interesting post.

You can't challenge Kukri because he's recovering from the Holmgang. It'll have to wait a night.

And what does the second part mean?

[woad&fangs]

After skimming over the thread I'm going to vote: tratorix, who seems more talkative than usual.

Whoever mentioned that the Jotun might have an investigation ability, I think that makes sense.

I challenged Husar because I was bored and because it was the first round so I figured a random Holmgang wasn't going to sink the town's chances or anything.

[Csargo]

I am prepared to reveal, as last night I was blessed by the gods...

Someone has some juicy information that he's holding out on....

[Privateerkev]

And what does the second part mean?

Pever was protected by Thor. How do I know this? Because I was protected by Thor on N1 and it was described as being a blessing from the Gods. (thank you Thor...)

Night 1

You find an amulet depicting a hammer on your bedroll.
You put it on and feel somehow stronger. It is as if you have gained immortality.

Your Holmgang ability has been temporarily increased to X for this coming round.

How do I know it was Thor? From the end write-up of Midgard 1.

I had to rewrite Prole’s role since I thought it a little inappropriate to place her in the shoes of Thor the manly man. I am sorry Prole if I thought wrong.
Thor was to protect two players every night by giving them a magical hammer amulet that would scare off the Jotun and give extra power in battle.

Basically, Thor was supposed to be in the last game. But Sigurd changed it because of Prole. So, it looks like he put Thor in this game.

I'm saying all of this because I don't want to see pever lynched solely on the basis of being protected by Thor. I saw it was raising questions so we might as well get it out in the open.

And Thor, thank you for the protection but I am merely a pawn in this great play. I humbly ask that you find someone more worthy than me to protect.