The compassion of socialism.

[Strike For The South]

No. I also find it very funny the same people who want more social liberalism want more government control over there lives. It is an odd mindset

[Koga No Goshi]

No. I also find it very funny the same people who want more social liberalism want more government control over there lives. It is an odd mindset

How does that follow? I don't want the state to tell me I can't have an operation but I don't like an HMO or insurance company telling me that either.

[Strike For The South]

How does that follow? I don't want the state to tell me I can't have an operation but I don't like an HMO or insurance company telling me that either.

Well I guess that begs the question how much do you want? Socialism is the ultimate affront to the citizen. Government control disguised as charity.

[Kadagar_AV]

Well I guess that begs the question how much do you want? Socialism is the ultimate affront to the citizen. Government control disguised as charity.

I live in a socialistic state... Contrary to YOUR country we can not be jailed without evidence, the state does not have the right to read our E-mail traffic...

Care to explain again why capitalism is better?

And also, comparing contrys and ideologies is two different things...

I went along with the charade only to please the VERY WELL THOUGHT OUT ruleset of this topic...

[CountArach]

I'd say it is more caring.

http://townhall.com/columnists/JohnS...ves_to_charity
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/204/story_20419_1.html
http://digg.com/politics/Conservativ..._Than_Liberals

That's not the government doing it.

[Strike For The South]

I live in a socialistic state... Contrary to YOUR country we can not be jailed without evidence, the state does not have the right to read our E-mail traffic...

Care to explain again why capitalism is better?

And also, comparing contrys and ideologies is two different things...

I went along with the charade only to please the VERY WELL THOUGHT OUT ruleset of this topic...

Im not comparing countries amigo. My country is ruled by a self perpetuating oligarchy. Crippling taxation, removing the citizens right to choose, red tape up the rear. Socialism by definition invites the government into your home. I do not need a government with power much less allot of it

[Koga No Goshi]

Well I guess that begs the question how much do you want? Socialism is the ultimate affront to the citizen. Government control disguised as charity.

I think you are confusing Socialism and Communism, Strike. I don't know where this component of "the state controls your life and tells you what to do" comes into the discussion. I just think we all have a common stake in the common welfare of our country and that the individualistic free market attitude of "get as much as possible while paying the least back in as possible" is not good, and is less than forgiveable in the richest nation on earth if it means people lose their homes because of cancer (not because of reckless spending or whatever.)

m not comparing countries amigo. My country is ruled by a self perpetuating oligarchy. Crippling taxation, removing the citizens right to choose, red tape up the rear. Socialism by definition invites the government into your home. I do not need a government with power much less allot of it

You think we pay more taxes than a lot of European countries?

[Strike For The South]

I think you are confusing Socialism and Communism, Strike. I don't know where this component of "the state controls your life and tells you what to do" comes into the discussion. I just think we all have a common stake in the common welfare of our country and that the individualistic free market attitude of "get as much as possible while paying the least back in as possible" is not good, and is less than forgiveable in the richest nation on earth if it means people lose their homes because of cancer (not because of reckless spending or whatever.)

I dont need my money going to fund state programs. How bout that?

[CountArach]

I dont need my money going to fund state programs. How bout that?

Enjoy living without roads.

[PanzerJaeger]

I live in a socialistic state... Contrary to YOUR country we can not be jailed without evidence, the state does not have the right to read our E-mail traffic...

Must you use every thread as a segway to attack America? It gets old. This is about the healthcare system in Britain, or socialism in general - neither of which have much to do with the United States.

[Koga No Goshi]

I dont need my money going to fund state programs. How bout that?

Okay, do you want to pay the next time a storm blows over the power lines in your housing track? Or go out and fill in the potholes on your street yourself? What if you live at the bottom of a hill where rainwater runs down and you get 5x more potholes than anyone else? Tough luck?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

That's not the government doing it.

No, it is the individual against socialism that is doing it.

[Strike For The South]

Enjoy living without roads.

Oh my my my. The Fed should do

-Maintain interstate highways
-Raise and pay military
-Regulate disputes between states
-Have an organization like FEMA

All else should be left to the states and even then they should have very little power. I guess I need to be more clear thats two of you guys.

[Koga No Goshi]

Must you use every thread as a segway to attack America? It gets old. This is about the healthcare system in Britain, or socialism in general - neither of which have much to do with the United States.

It became relevant because in the OP the "travesty" being proclaimed is something that would be par for course in America's private health insurance system. Like my mom's insurance company refusing authorization for her khyphoplasty surgery on the Friday afternoon before it was scheduled on a Monday morning at 7am, and then their authorization phone number was closed until Monday morning, and the doctor said he wouldn't mind going ahead with the procedure except she'd have to pay and fight it out wtih the insurance company later. Cost about $25,000. Victory for the free market and personal responsibility.

[Koga No Goshi]

Oh my my my. The Fed should do

-Maintain interstate highways
-Raise and pay military
-Regulate disputes between states
-Have an organization like FEMA

All else should be left to the states and even then they should have very little power. I guess I need to be more clear thats two of you guys.

No regulation then? :)

P.S we had this system before, it was called the Robber Baron era.

[KarlXII]

In Capitalististan, the government would gladly pay their inhabitant's health care? My, we are confused.

They'd also pay off student loans, car payments, and dog's surgery.

[Strike For The South]

No regulation then? :)

P.S we had this system before, it was called the Robber Baron era.

As little as possible.

In an educated society the robber barons would not happen I will also play devils advocate and say the robber barons perpetuated the USA onto the world stage.

[Kadagar_AV]

Must you use every thread as a segway to attack America? It gets old. This is about the healthcare system in Britain, or socialism in general - neither of which have much to do with the United States.

Oh come one, if an american talks about "the ultimate affront to citizens" I can not help it.... If you make a volley, I will smash;)

I dont need my money going to fund state programs. How bout that?

This is a WELL THOUGHT OUT answer indeed...

So anarchy (sp?) is your ideal solution?

[PanzerJaeger]

It became relevant because in the OP the "travesty" being proclaimed is something that would be par for course in America's private health insurance system. Like my mom's insurance company refusing authorization for her khyphoplasty surgery on the Friday afternoon before it was scheduled on a Monday morning at 7am, and then their authorization phone number was closed until Monday morning, and the doctor said he wouldn't mind going ahead with the procedure except she'd have to pay and fight it out wtih the insurance company later. Cost about $25,000. Victory for the free market and personal responsibility.

That sucks. I'm really sorry to hear that and I hope she manages to get it out of the insurance company. There's definitely cause to have a thread about the state of health care in America.

However, the OP mentioned nothing about the US, and certainly nothing about government wiretapping or holding people without trial. Kadagar_AV's comment was a broad and unrelated attack on America - which he seems to make a habit of doing.

Oh come one, if an american talks about "the ultimate affront to citizens" I can not help it.... If you make a volley, I will smash;)

And what does the government reading emails have to do with.... well.. anything?

[Strike For The South]

Oh come one, if an american talks about "the ultimate affront to citizens" I can not help it.... If you make a volley, I will smash;)





This is a WELL THOUGHT OUT answer indeed...

So anarchy (sp?) is your ideal solution?

Why do you insist on yelling in bold? I prefer a government that is ruled by the people and the best way to do that is give the least amount of power and money. When citizens cease to be vigilant authoritarianism reigns.

[Koga No Goshi]

As little as possible.

In an educated society the robber barons would not happen I will also play devils advocate and say the robber barons perpetuated the USA onto the world stage.

Strike, within the confines of the modern world, we have basically had this ideology be dominant for almost 30 years now. It's been deregulate, downsize (except the big inflations of gov't under Reagan and Bush, but those were mostly in defense areas so people don't seem to mind), even Clinton cut welfare and such. It hasn't worked in creating a free market utopia. Even the so called free market people never really want a free market, you can see that with Wall Street asking for a bailout. They want a crybaby free market with loopholes and illegal immigrant labor and tax benefits for outsourcing and no responsibility or accountability when they flop an industry or default on promised pensions. If we got rid of all the "wasteful" safety nets and combined it with all the people who've lost their retirement, investment accounts, and mortgages, we'd be looking at 1929 again. I just don't see how this can look like a good thing to you.

[Koga No Goshi]

That sucks. I'm really sorry to hear that and I hope she manages to get it out of the insurance company. There's definitely cause to have a thread about the state of health care in America.

However, the OP mentioned nothing about the US, and certainly nothing about government wiretapping or holding people without trial. Kadagar_AV's comment was a broad and unrelated attack on America - which he seems to make a habit of doing.

It becomes relevant though if the implied argument is that a private insurance system is better. It's not.

Thanks for the kind words. She was horrified at the price tag but she had been completely unable to get up for a month already because of the fractured vertebrae. (That's what khyphoplasty is for, it's kinda like vertebrae superglue procedure.) The insurance company told her doctor that "the surgery was not warranted because more conservative measures should be exhausted first, such as wearing a back brace." A back brace don't fix a fractured bone in your spine.

[Strike For The South]

Strike, within the confines of the modern world, we have basically had this ideology be dominant for almost 30 years now. It's been deregulate, downsize (except the big inflations of gov't under Reagan and Bush, but those were mostly in defense areas so people don't seem to mind), even Clinton cut welfare and such. It hasn't worked in creating a free market utopia. Even the so called free market people never really want a free market, you can see that with Wall Street asking for a bailout. They want a crybaby free market with loopholes and illegal immigrant labor and tax benefits for outsourcing and no responsibility or accountability when they flop an industry or default on promised pensions. If we got rid of all the "wasteful" safety nets and combined it with all the people who've lost their retirement, investment accounts, and mortgages, we'd be looking at 1929 again. I just don't see how this can look like a good thing to you.

The American government has descended into an oligarchy. How many times must I say this? America got sick at appomattox and died in 33.

[Koga No Goshi]

The American government has descended into an oligarchy. How many times must I say this? America got sick at appomattox and died in 33.

Descended into? Who do you think started this country? Oligarchs. Pennsylvania was a land grant to an English noble. Texas was a bunch of rich guys who insisted they wanted to take over all that land even though the government said no, that's Mexico, and brought a lot of poor landless farmers along with them. This is nothing new. What you propose would make it even worse. America would look like what you saw in "Titanic" again. Dirt poor and filthy rich. No in-between.

[Kadagar_AV]

Why do you insist on yelling in bold? I prefer a government that is ruled by the people and the best way to do that is give the least amount of power and money. When citizens cease to be vigilant authoritarianism reigns.

Well, using bad words is not allowed on this forum... Sarcasm however is... That is a way of highlighting the sarcasm. I agree it sticks in the eye, but one has to use the tools handed...


panzer,

And what does the government reading emails have to do with.... well.. anything?

I have to explain it again? is it OK if I just copy and paste my previous post?

"if an american talks about "the ultimate affront to citizens" I can not help it.... If you make a volley, I will smash"

[Strike For The South]

Descended into? Who do you think started this country? Oligarchs. Pennsylvania was a land grant to an English noble. Texas was a bunch of rich guys who insisted they wanted to take over all that land even though the government said no, that's Mexico, and brought a lot of poor landless farmers along with them. This is nothing new. What you propose would make it even worse. America would look like what you saw in "Titanic" again. Dirt poor and filthy rich. No in-between.

I dont think it would but we may never know. People who do not remain vigilant deserve what they get. We are seeing that right now.

[Strike For The South]

Well, using bad words is not allowed on this forum... Sarcasm however is... That is a way of highlighting the sarcasm. I agree it sticks in the eye, but one has to use the tools handed...


panzer,

I have to explain it again? is it OK if I just copy and paste my previous post?

"if an american talks about "the ultimate affront to citizens" I can not help it.... If you make a volley, I will smash"

All I see is anti-americanism thank you for playing.

[Koga No Goshi]

I dont think it would but we may never know. People who do not remain vigilant deserve what they get. We are seeing that right now.

What are you implying? Civil war?

[Strike For The South]

What are you implying? Civil war?

No. American citizens today couldn't stomach it we really cant seem to stomach much of anything anymore. I've decided to live my life and protect my (one day) family to the best of my ability. Rebillions are best left for schoolboys with dreams

[Koga No Goshi]

No. American citizens today couldn't stomach it we really cant seem to stomach much of anything anymore. I've decided to live my life and protect my (one day) family to the best of my ability. Rebillions are best left for schoolboys with dreams

How does no safety net and no reliable healthcare help protect your family?