Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
So, if he fails to make progress it'll be the Repub's fault?

Look, I'm not trying to argue with you here - your input is actually helping me shape my decision come Election Day.

Rather than raising or lowering 'the bar' of expectations, I just wanna know what you, a trained numbers-guy, and enthusiastic supporter our the Senator, think - how long is it gonna take to "undo" the nastier parts of GW's legacy, and get our finances more manageable? I don't expect a surplus after 4 years, I hope for control, with a visible way through the minefields.
No of course not. While plenty of people are happy to call me a blind partisan, I find the people who throw that accusation out the easiest are most often the most guilty of it themselves. People still defending the last 8 years, while simultaneously saying that we need change and such, would be a prime example. We went through that same thing in '04, people sort of...admitting that things weren't going smoothly, but then insisting no change was necessary or desirable. Strange.

As far as time... I don't know what it is you're expecting to see undone, Kukri. If you're talking about "when is the U.S. going to look just like it did before Dubya touched it", who knows. He's entrenched a lot into the justice department and set a lot of bad precedents that may have lasting implications for years. That's just the way judicial stuff works, change is never snapfinger overnight. And why stuffing the courts is always such a priority for both partisanships. (Although of course I would argue that our picks are more moderate.... we don't have a universal litmus of basically goading a judicial pick into admitting he disagrees with standing law and would love to see it overturned, whereas that is a litmus for Republican judicial appointments.) Many are picked just for having a good judicial and civil rights record without particular crusadership on any one particular issue. (I'm sure there are exceptions.)

But, if you want me to go stump and say oh yeah yeah, don't worry, most of the bad stuff will be over with in 4 years... I have no way of knowing that, no matter how kind conditions are. I know only that the plans proposed greatly favor more recovery in the domestic sector and in international affairs under Obama, that economists endorse his plans more, that he seems far more in touch with regular concerns of regular people (he doesn't define middle class as 250k...) and his priorities focus on long-term investments in America (education, college, jobs, industries, infrastructure) as opposed to costly short-term ego points (making sure no one can say we didn't get "victory" before we admit our military role in a political conflict is over) and tax cuts for the rich in a period of huge deficit. Many on these very boards still argue the wisdom of cut taxes, cut taxes. If any of the promises they make about how tax cuts for the upper classes should directly go through a revolving door to benefit the American economy domestically, we should be halfway through a steady growth period, not in virtually our 8th year of economic decline. Even my dad, an almost lifelong conservative, has hopped for Obama because he says if you have 8 years to try your plan, and it doesn't work, change your plan. And it's both vindicating and a little sad to see his eyes opening up as he is in these constant arguments with all his coworkers (mostly Republican) who are ideological and still just argue the same policies, even after 8 years and where we are today with the debt and deficit and tax cuts and the wars.

Obama says he can't know what parts of his plan have to be shelved or implemented only piecemeal until he sees the budget come in, because until then you're just working off imaginary numbers. And McCain in not so many words has expressed the same idea by avoiding going into any details of his plans or proposed budgeting to make them possible. (Although he does rather cavalierly insist that he sees no reason anything would have to be cut or greatly modified from his original plan.... he dodged that question while Obama answered it just like Palin dodged the question about weaknesses while Biden answered it.) It's more or less given that Obama can't implement everything in one term; but this is true of anyone campaigning for the Presidency no? The economic crisis has just cast even more doubt over how exactly the two candidates' plans would manifest, certainly they will have to be modified. But I Think Obama has displayed more flexibility, willingness to look at the situations as they arise and incorporate them, rather than insist on sticking to the talking point right up until the moemnt you are forced to do an abrupt about-face. ("The fundamentals of the economy are strong...")