ORG, TWC, and the Official Forum - what would the ORG specialize in?

[johnhughthom]

I think the moderators should just admit that the most exhilarating and interesting period was when me and the rest of the tavern was being super active and spammy. There was something happening every day.

Or you could admit that just because you found it interesting and exhilarating does not mean others did. I found the EB Tavern, and the associated posting from the time, pretty juvenile and embarrassing to be honest.

[Axalon]

I'll post my actual ideas later on... In the mean time, some comments of my own to various stuff...

The org is based around what TW was 8-10 years ago and it catered to people that played the then TW games

In short, I think this is BS... A quick look at the ORG-news coverage over past 6 months and I got all I need to dismiss that statement all the way back to the stone age.

That my own humble modding effort for MTW was voted mod of the year here is embarassing to say the least.

You said it, but I agree. It is embarrassing, and that in more ways then one. It can't get much worse then as is. Then again you did not protest at all, you were just fine with all that, or so you said at the time. The only thing you protested against was the fact that I had the "indecency" to protest against the whole damn thing and refused to participate because of general principles. Bunching up TW-engines, the total apathy to scale, traits and circumstances, general practice etc. etc. Nope, you were clearly fine with all that, thus you don't get to also say that it was embarrassing as well. Your actions and words here strikes me as that of an unbothered hypocrite. That certainly deserves to be pointed out. And this is not the first time either, now is it? That's why I have such a hard time condoning it, like others do. At least I will greet it with scorn.

You don't need only veteran minded people that are more mature here. Froggy guides won't get you new people in. You need the younger lads and ladies that play newer TW as well

I certainly agree with that. This place needs all people interested in TW it can get, as it is, and this regardless the game. The game, age and gender are actually irrelevant, the interest in TW is not. If that happens to be RTW or MTW1, so be it. Same thing applies to ETW and STW2.

- and without people that play the games there isn't anything to discuss,

True... Without people that post either - there is nothing to discuss in the first place. People must post in order for a discussion to be possible at all... I know this first hand.

As for becoming TWC copycats, its too late to worry about that - the org has already copied TWC policies/means and devices.

I think there is some truth to that... Then again, does it matter?

...

Precisely. One simple "Thank you!" can mean a lot - there's a reason why it's considered a vital part of polite conversation out in the real world. Too often people's efforts go unrecognised, people don't take the time to post some thanks. The button system was supposed to help counter this by making it possible for people to show appreciation without feeling like spammers.

I can certainly see your point and I agree totally, it could be a very useful and effective tool. Assuming that it will not be overused and lose all meaning... Like the stars on threads.... It has ended up in 5 stars or no stars and usually completely arbitrary, or so I believe. As I understand it, this star-stuff is strictly a staff-thing/option, so I guess you guys are to blame for all that.... :)

It's hardly a disaster somehow, but I do think that the use and practice of the stars can be improved somehow. As it is now it has basically lost all meaning, it's fluff, to me at least. I wonder, is it even possible to remove the stars completely from a thread? I would actually be intersted in getting a solid answer on that.

That one died a slow death due to lack of interest amongst those we hoped would use it.

So, put it in stasis then... Things might just change some day...

- A

[Axalon]

And another post...

It's not always easy to draw the line; moderating has never been exact science.

True.... However that does not mean that it can't be, or at least should strive for being more "exacter", now does it? I think it should at least try to be... Right or wrong there is much at the ORG that strikes me as arbitrary and I can't say that I think that is a good thing on general terms. I would say that it is a bad thing actually... This goes for moderation as well. I think the TWC, which far from perfect somehow, has managed that problem better on general terms. And, at least they have it more specified - this openly and publicly - and that strikes me as a much better solution. The ORG could very well learn a thing or two by that, or so I believe. I am open to hear out the arguments against it - if there actually are any?

What about off topic posts and frivolous spam? Should staff act against that or should we allow more "forum chemistry". After all, the idea of this place is to have fun and threads full of good old fashioned completely nonsensic spam posts are usually the most funny threads. I can understand there's a difference between the Guides fora, where people look for specific information and where spam is really annoying, but maybe we should be more relaxed in other areas? Just me spouting random thoughts here. How does the membership feel? As I said, we need to be open for everything. Can I hear some thoughts on this, please?

Personally, I say kill it and do us all a favour, at least in the TW-sections. To me it is just annoying and gets in the way. Prejudice or not, I think the ORG is too lax on this stuff in general and could certainly try to change (for the better). The TWC seems to have gotten worse as well I think, that's the impression I get anyhow...

If it addresses the topic somehow by all means go right ahead and joke - but - address the topic at hand and most of this kind of crap fails to do that and that's why it is extra annoying. Maybe I have been just unlucky in my experiences on these boards. I'll say this much anyways - it is usually the same members that does it - over and over again and usually in others threads. Personally, I think that can so easily become arrogant and rude, showing disrespect for a topic that somebody else is interested in, enough to start a thread about it. If I want to know about matter X, I don't want to go thru all that crap and I find it hard to believe that I am the only one that thinks that.

Our currency here is information, not jokes and spam. Or so I would like to believe. At least I come here for information or to provide information and so, I am very fond of sticking to the topic in general. I have also noticed that some people have problems determining what is actually relevant or even lack the capacity to recognize that the question has already been answered by somebody else. What do they do? They answer it all over again - as if the previous answer never existed... That just rude and annoying... As if the answer only get valid when they have delivered it.... I have a very hard time accepting that and quite frankly I have little regard for it. Again, certain members excel in that routine as well - and they have earned my thorough dislike because of it. If you got nothing to add - then don't post.

If people spam and joke in the tavern, I have no problem with that as that whole area is essentially about spam and nonsense anyways (that's my experience at least). In a TW-thread that also deals with TW somehow (not even that is a certainty here), it's just annoying and topicality should be enforced because that might actually be something used for future reference some day. Because of that, I do advocate the enforcement of topicality and just delete the personal chatter. I simply don't care about some internal jokes or whatever crap people cook up. This is a public space, not a personal one and some people seem to have forgotten that. In some cases it seems like they are just fishing for attention somehow - that's just annoying. Especially since they are usually not worthy of any attention to begin with, for me anyways...

Maybe I am just overly harsh and Spartan like - it is possible. Anyways, I'm sure there are people that will disagree with all this. Well, just speaking my mind here as well.

- A

[Cute Wolf]

We do not and will not condone bullying at the Org, and name-calling is a form of that. Personal attacks are not appropriate, regardless of your opinions/feelings of that person; if you don't like them, there's an Ignore feature.

I am willing to embrace a great deal of change if the community wants it (be it forum appearance/structure, content, staff behaviour/rules, whatever), but bullying is one thing I truly stand against and won't budge over.



I'm more than willing to discuss these infractions with you at your discretion.

It's not bullying, it's only matter on how to express disgusts, and it's actually allready a mild form, it's barely an insult.

and about the problem with Pharoah, he's perma-banned on TWC because the moderators and admins there are also modders and they know how disruptive and annoying Pharoah is, while here, you decide to cradle and put him in soft spot... *@)**#@

[a completely inoffensive name]

Or you could admit that just because you found it interesting and exhilarating does not mean others did. I found the EB Tavern, and the associated posting from the time, pretty juvenile and embarrassing to be honest.

Or you could admit that you can't recognize facetiousness.

[Tuuvi]

It's not bullying, it's only matter on how to express disgusts, and it's actually allready a mild form, it's barely an insult.

and about the problem with Pharoah, he's perma-banned on TWC because the moderators and admins there are also modders and they know how disruptive and annoying Pharoah is, while here, you decide to cradle and put him in soft spot... *@)**#@

Is Pharoah a troll? Is he trying to be disruptive? I've never gotten that vibe from him, I think he just wants to be a modder. It would be a lot more constructive to show him the errors of his ways and to help him become a better modder than to put him down. The TWC mods sound like jackasses to me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Or you could admit that you can't recognize facetiousness.

Or maybe YOU could admit that his admission would not be admissible!

[Andres]

Or you could admit that you can't recognize facetiousness.

You're being lazy

I value your opinion ACIN. I'm interested to hear your opinion about the rules, current style of moderation and other aspects and what you think should change. I want your input and ideas, so stop being lazy by limiting yourself to one liners that come down to complaining about the past. Let your brains work and spout brilliant ideas

@Axalon, I appreciate your bluntness, I'll address your post later on, bit limited on time right now.

[Cute Wolf]

Is Pharoah a troll? Is he trying to be disruptive? I've never gotten that vibe from him, I think he just wants to be a modder. It would be a lot more constructive to show him the errors of his ways and to help him become a better modder than to put him down. The TWC mods sound like jackasses to me.

seriously, VMs and PMs Spam to a modder who rejects "his plea for helping him to make his own mod" , initially we reply politely and some, including I, did put some constructive supports and stuffs, but after "PWEASE HELP ME MAKING BIRTH OF CIVILIZATION TW, WITH EGYPT, ASSUR, BABOLON, I KNOW YOU HAVE TIME TO HEWP ME!" "PWEASE HELP MEH MAKING BWA BWA BWA - TOTAL WAR" spam in your inbox and VMs (ask TWC Admins if you do not believe this, and this not only happened to me but to a very large numbers of modders) , making new threads on WIP sections and spam-posting other's threads... he's obviously a troll...

and when I found him also spam my ORG PMs and VMs I only ask him to go out of my profile, (albeit with harsh words, but the very same response on TWC didn't yield anything, but Secura infract me on the basis of unfriendliness)...

well I admit I go over the usual stuffs here at the org, one time asking him to commit suicide... but... nah, this time I don't get infracted of it, but I found it hillarious...

Hi Cute Wolf/Spike,


If a member harasses you with visitor messages, then you can report the unwanted messages. It is also possible to put a certain user on your ignore list. You also have the possiblity to delete visitor messages made by other patrons on your profile page. As a last resort, you can also switch VM's off in your profile.

Posting links to sites with explanations on how to commit suicide on another patrons' profile, however, goes a step too far.

Please, don't.

Thanks in advance,

Andres.

[Secura]

It's not bullying, it's only matter on how to express disgusts, and it's actually allready a mild form, it's barely an insult.

Telling someone they have no shame is one thing, sending them links on committing suicide is another. I allowed the former to slide, it was clearly just a statement of your frustration, but the latter quantifies as bullying, and a pretty extreme form at that; we've seen in the past that this type of comment can be taken very seriously by the victim (the Frontroom has had issues with this in the past), and thus they're taken very seriously by staff if we see such things.

Ultimately, there's no need to express your disdain for Pharoah, it has been suggested to you on multiple occasions that you can use the Ignore function at any time. As you have chosen not to follow this advice, one can only assume that you either enjoy the drama of your altercations (if you can call it an altercation, Pharoah doesn't really reciprocate) or you simply enjoy insulting a child. Either of these things is detrimental to your character and casts you in a bad light, as you're a pretty likeable guy otherwise.

and about the problem with Pharoah, he's perma-banned on TWC because the moderators and admins there are also modders and they know how disruptive and annoying Pharoah is, while here, you decide to cradle and put him in soft spot... *@)**#@

For the record, Pharoah was given the exact same treatment as you; had you reported him for harassing you, it would have been dealt with as severely as if you had continued insulting him, as outlined in my PMs to you both.

well I admit I go over the usual stuffs here at the org, one time asking him to commit suicide... but... nah, this time I don't get infracted of it, but I found it hillarious...

We don't usually moderate Visitor Messages in the manner we would normal things, and the message in question was already deleted by Pharoah by the time Andres spotted it, hence the simple PM rather than anything further.

It would be a lot more constructive to show him the errors of his ways and to help him become a better modder than to put him down.

This is a very good point, I think Pharoah could really benefit from a mentor of sorts and it is something I have suggested before but ultimately my words fell on deaf ears. I'm glad he's integrating himself with the modding community. :3

[Andres]

Cute Wolf, allthough I'm open to all suggestions, including loosening the rules and being more relaxed, some things will never be ok around here. Directing another member to "help sites" on how to commit suicide is one of those things. It's not because maybe the balance has shifted too much to one side of the spectrum that we're now going to shift the balance towards the other extreme, i.e. everything goes.

[Cute Wolf]

haha, sorry then... never tought that advising member to suicide is counted as extreme form of bullying....

darn, shouldn't listen what AP said then...

[Kagemusha]

So what do people actually want from Org? Nothing? Something? Is TWC and COM already delivering everything that people interested in TW want?

As an ex staffer.I can say that before and ever since Tosa passed away, great pains have been taken to make the forum more accessible and creating more content for it. Still staff cant do it all. Please people, state what is putting you on or off about the Org. This whole forum is created just for you, the forum members and your input is what can change the forum into your desired direction, but only if you voice that input.

Please speak out.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I am on my phone, but I plan on coming by later tonight to write up a big thing of my thoughts regarding the future of the org.

In the meantime I will just give another lazy one liner. If Cute Wolf is in anyway representative of the demographics for Total War nowadays, then it is becoming increasingly obvious why we are in the spot we are in.

I mean, christ, was I stupid here, but even I didn't just shrug off asking someone to kill themselves.

[Kagemusha]

I am on my phone, but I plan on coming by later tonight to write up a big thing of my thoughts regarding the future of the org.

In the meantime I will just give another lazy one liner. If Cute Wolf is in anyway representative of the demographics for Total War nowadays, then it is becoming increasingly obvious why we are in the spot we are in.

I mean, christ, was I stupid here, but even I didn't just shrug off asking someone to kill themselves.

Dont be an arse! And i know this will give me my first ever warning point during my time here.

[edyzmedieval]

I do kinda miss the old spam threads, they were quite funny and only had friendly banter.

[Andres]

I do kinda miss the old spam threads, they were quite funny and only had friendly banter.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I just wanted to let the membership know that staff is having a serious discussion concurrently with this one about how to reform the .Org, and all of your ideas are being weighed. There is an extremely good chance of there being changes, so please speak up if you have any ideas.

[johnhughthom]

Or you could admit that you can't recognize facetiousness.

Indeed, I have never made a facetious post myself. I wouldn't recognise a facetious post if it came up to me and called me an offensive name.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I think the real problem that the ORG has is that we don't really advertise what actually makes this place a fun forum. Which is the community and not at all the discussion about TotalWar games. It's been very evident that if you can group the residents of the ORG into two groups it's 1. People here for EB. 2. People who checked this place out a bit, but no longer play TW games.

I think we need to seriously re-evaluate what this entire forum and the website is going to be about if we want this place to have a little more action occurring here. I see everyone talking about how TWC operates and how they managed to secure all the traffic following the series, but one thing I have not heard people talk is about is how the ORG, which once had all the Clans and strategy talk happening around here, managed to lose it all to the TWC in the first place. Nor do I see people really want to take on TWC to take back the spot as #1 place for everything TotalWar (the reason why is evident as I will say below). So obviously nothing is going to happen regarding the traffic here because none of the changes have any direction to them, in terms of bestowing a defining characteristic to the org. What we have been doing is just general accessibility, and convenience updates that make using the site more functional but have not made the site more appealing.

I can take a look at the general forum page right now and see that all of the sections regarding TotalWar with the exception of the EB forums are for all intents and purposes, dead. What the kindle in this place is, and has been since 2009-2010, is the Tavern. We should honestly be focusing on cultivating our mafia community and making the front/backrooms out as a nice place for people to have fun, passionate, light hearted but not 4chan-ish topics/discussions.

In all honestly, I am just going to say this and it will come off as elitist, but whatever. As the TotalWar series went hardcore popular after Rome we got a major dumbing down of the average person who enjoys the series in terms of age, and if my experience at TWC tells me anything...in IQ as well. The way that you guys want this place to conduct itself is not conductive to most people who want to communicate at the level of xbox live kiddies. When I post in the political sections in TWC I get 4 right wingers and 4 left wingers shouting ad-hominems and non-sequitors while talking in the most dickish way possible. And when I say dickish, I know I seem like the kettle calling the pot cast iron here, but these people are dicks.

In all honesty, I think the era of mature men and women who want a friendly and more importantly structured discussion about TotalWar is long gone from here. There are just too many people who are at that teenage level of discussion that I was just at until recently. I mean I am looking at TWC's section for Bethesda games, and it all looks like the comments section for a Kotaku article.

So this is my completely untenable idea. Either we find a way to beat TWC at their own game, or this whole place will have be retweaked. If you guys don't like that because obviously the place is called "TotalWar.org" then that is understandable. One thing that Lemur told me when I got my first infraction here is that the moderators and community here have higher expectations in regards to conduct, if you want 4chan go to 4chan. However, one thing I seem to find every other website I go to is that most people just don't want to conform to a higher standard. I've seen it with reddit in many, many wonderful communities/subreddits where try-hards want to be be a part of something nice and ruin it for everyone because they never understood what the community was about in the first place.

I'm being a bitter old man right now and I am going to download what remaining updates the Fallout New Vegas modding community has provided for my mods before it had died earlier this year.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

>Either we find a way to beat TWC at their own game, or this whole place will have be retweaked.

Why? What's wrong with what we have? There's decent activity in the Shogun 2 forums because CA finally made a game that was halfway decent. The off-topic forums are also fine, or at least the Arena is.

[Arjos]

So what do people actually want from Org? Nothing? Something?

You can ask that to anyone about anything and you'd hardly get any answer...
We humans know how to complain, sometimes by extreme circumstances we come up with solutions :P

But tbh, I lurked in this forum for 2 years iirc, just the EB sub-fora, registered and loved it eversince...

[a completely inoffensive name]

Why? What's wrong with what we have?

Read my post again. We are in a state of limbo here. Our strengths are not related to TotalWar and only a small portion of members come here for TotalWar. What we advertise ourselves as is not what we actually are sticking around here for.

There's decent activity in the Shogun 2 forums because CA finally made a game that was halfway decent. The off-topic forums are also fine, or at least the Arena is.

You are just making my point for me. I'm glad that you are satisfied with the status of the org as "meh".

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Better than you social engineers breaking what we have.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Better than you social engineers breaking what we have.

Bringing in such charged political terminology speaks volumes on your mental capacity to interpret and perhaps even distinguish reality.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Of course, I'm simply delusional. It is an impossibility that remaking the Org in your image vision would have any negative consequences whatsoever. I'd say something like I'll fall on my sword but that sounds like Total War, and we can't have that anymore.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Of course, I'm simply delusional. It is an impossibility that remaking the Org in your image vision would have any negative consequences whatsoever. I'd say something like I'll fall on my sword but that sounds like Total War, and we can't have that anymore.

I have provided no vision. I said if people didn't want to deviate from TotalWar then that is understandable. You are the one that is showing his hand by getting defensive about a position I have never made.

Everything I have talked about, I have derived from the vision that has been given to me from the org. Which is 1. higher standards of conduct. 2. higher standards for arguments. Both of which are mutually exclusive from a massively popular video game forum where the kiddies like to bicker about whether Xbox 360 or PS3 is better.

If you do not want the org to promote its gameroom, then by all means make the case. But don't try to make this out as an intellectual coup of the org, I may be tolerated around here, but I am not exactly free of character damaging hypocrisy when it comes to the argument I have presented.

[Axalon]

Alright, here are my ideas essentially... For whatever it is worth...

Go 100% egalitarian on TW-games....


Rough theory...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

• Recognize that the supposed “TW-community” – usually loosely defined as people who play TW-games somehow - is in fact not one community, but several communities. As I understand it, roughly one per each released PC TW-game (at least).
  
  
• Recognize ALL these (6?) communities, respect and treat them as equals. This means equal shares “of the cake” (ORG-resources, support, recognition and exposure etc. etc.) and that order must be enforced at all times. Favour and privileges to any one community (regardless of circumstances) is the discrimination of others. Size and popularity of X-community means nothing – the larger communities can express that aspect by creating proportional quantities of material for their own benefit and it will thus naturally gain its fair amounts of exposure due to higher levels/frequency of “news-worthy-material” produced (“news-worthy” is an aspect that needs to be somehow defined and specified btw). Obviously NTW will have to be fully and finally recognized here (this regardless what we may think of it in relation to ETW). We can not afford the luxury of dealing with favourites here as that is the road to death…
  
  
• Recognize the fact that the TW-games are indeed different and that people do prefer the one above the other. That is why the doctrine of TW-egalitarianism is necessary to ensure that no community will be “left out in the cold” in order to serve another community/game. So that everybody can feel welcome and at home here and truly feel that their “fave game” is taken and treated just as seriously as any other TW-game – not on paper, but in practice, resources and infrastructure.
  
  
• Recognize the importance of longevity and diversity in TW-games (and its communities). That means a shift in focus from the static original XTW(x) to the altered and modded game because it there this longevity is found. It is that stuff that provides new experiences, aspects, discoveries, articles, discussions and reasons for people to come here and sign up – and stick around. It also generates diversity in alternatives, both within one TW-title, but also between the different TW-titles as each TW-title will be sustained by that internal diversity, due altered versions. The Egalitarian doctrine enables all that and more importantly it enforces these things if put to proper practice. Ultimately making sure that “there is something for everybody” on a whole other level. New or old player, no matter – the egalitarian doctrine caters to all regardless the “fave game” might be, this by default – it allows that circumstance, it enforces that circumstance.
  
  
• Recognize that the stubborn focus, attention and exposure by ORG-staff of STW2 (as it happens to be the latest game) must cease as it clearly done at the expense of other the communities/games. The effort made for STW2 is great, but it should be done for all games – at the same time, with equal resources… That is hardly the case. If we are into STW2 all is fine and well - if not - then we instead have a problem and what I would categorize as another element of structural and practiced discrimination (at several levels). Therefore it should be terminated immediately as it works destructively on other communities.
  
  
• Recognize the benefit of a clearly defined TW-framework, what it actually is supposed to be - so that becomes a doubtless certainty. Once that is known, we can also act and set practice in direct relation to it. It simplifies things, it crystallizes what this site is actually supposed to be about and deal with - and what not too - in any matter. What is actually a priority and what is not etc. Such a definition could be – for instance – all and any TW-games ever released for PC(/MAC), and only that, or anything directly related or relevant to that somehow. Everything else that fails to meet these criterions can and will be ignored and excluded from the TW-framework. …Cell phone mini-games or not, why even bother with it in the first place – basically let some other site worry about all that – and they will... We can have a clear and restricted focus, why not stick to that and make things easier while we still can. Additional “services” and non-TW stuff can still very well exist as additional elements of the site - but - not at the expense of TW-activities and resources. TW-activities in whatever form are what is interesting here - all the rest can still happen regardless and are thus ignored (in this text).
  
  
• Recognize the necessity and advantages of setting up standards and specifications, pre-defined and formulated tasks, actions, circumstances etc. etc. Every branch of staff, whatever it may be, should have a “dicta of standards" (should be public btw) to follow and act by. Essentially a work-specification, that explains their task and what is actually expected of them and what privileges they might actually exercise in the line of duty etc. Staff must have some standards to answer to as well (and be judged by it) - and at the same time - newly appointed greenhorn staff also get a clear specification that explains their task and what is actually expected of them straight up (and while you’re at it throw in some good advice from the veterans, it will save both time and energy, and it serves as further reference whenever in doubt). This makes it easier to recruit people to do various tasks on the site as it is obvious that the staff needs to increase in size if the egalitarian doctrine is to be successfully practiced and enforced. All this openly and in writing. Other things that also needs to be standardized and formalized as well. For instance “hosting a mod” - 1. specify what people should do if interested in that, 2. specify what are the terms and conditions for it , 3. specify what is actually offered in the service, 4. specify what is expected (both ways) if this service is used etc. I different options are available, specify, specify, specify…. So people get to know the criterions for having action or circumstance X realized and if it is truly warranted to do so etc. This way, people can actually find out what goes and what not. Such stuff should have been written and posted up for the public long time ago, and visibly and that in each and every TW-section. Every formal decision and practice of significance somehow should be warranted by predetermined specifications that it corresponds too. Formalize. If this is not done, things will get arbitrary – and fast. I am not ok with that, I am not impressed by that - and neither should anybody else be. Awards and titles must be properly specified and pre-determined or it will reduced to arbitrary fluff. And that basically kills it’s actual purpose – to distinguish for reason X. Same thing goes with the titles, senior member are not specified but arbitrary. Either kill the concept or properly specify it so it won’t be arbitrary (or at least can be argued - probably very successfully - to be so). The people, who want it, can then act accordingly and increase their chances as a result. Etc. etc. etc.

Resoning and basics...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There are a lot of TW-gamers out there, and there are a lot of people who just prefers to play other TW-games then the latest title – whether it is STW1, MTW1, RTW or MTW2 does not matter (neither does age, nor gender – interest matters). These are usually different communities on general terms, and they are being increasingly and systematically discriminated and ignored more and more for each new TW-game released. By going 100% Egalitarian on TW, the ORG can create a haven for all those people - and - in parallel also have an open door with “equal treatment and support for all” – including the newer games as well, such as ETW, NTW and STW2. ALL being treated equals, ALL taken seriously, ALL provided attention, activity, support and exposure and this by standing and general practice by ORG-staff.

Then you will eventually (hopefully) have your traffic here because then you will offer something that is not offered anywhere else. No other site can compete with that, as no other site offers that. It would be unique – and that is the strength of it. It also address and answers the “why” on all accounts. “Why should I come here?”, “Why should I post here?” and “Why is it attractive and worthwhile to do both – here?”.

It would be attractive and worthwhile to go here and post because here “my fave TW-game” is treated with the same interest and support as the latest TW-game is treated elsewhere. Here no TW-game will get bunched up together in order to serve the latest title that the mighty SEGA marketing-machinery is currently promoting (as well as the rest of the web. The ORG must stop being such a willing victim of SEGA marketing-devises). Here each game and all work and content for it is treated equally, with equal support and interest. Here all medium-, large- and grand-scale mods/alterations are treated with interest and are reported as news – because it is news – regardless of TW-game.

I’ll use a fire analogy. If a fire is flickering, then the ORG must throw in a log or two from keeping a fire from dying. If a fire dies we must make up another one - that takes more time and effort then just keeping a fire alive and active. In essence, the ORG must regularly invest in a ton of logs and distribute that regularly and evenly on all TW-fires (read TW-section X) to keep them going. Keeping the fires going means that people can see them in the darkness and find their way here. If people are also encouraged to bring their own "firewood" then the ORG can save its logs for later use or elsewhere where it more needed. Keeping all “TW-campfires” alive is priority as it is beneficial for this site as it then can offer more diversity as whole, offering more diversity in TW-games means that more people - regardless of preference -have reason to come and stay here… Once here, recognize people that do find and bring "logs" to the fire on their own. Once that happens, the fires will eventually get bigger and will ultimately attract more people… Etc. etc.

Some practices and standards...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First of all, the static original game can not truly sustain a community long term (it has been proven over and over again, and it has been tried here to death essentially) only mods have that capacity. This is valid from MTW1 all the way to NTW, as I understand it. It is not a mere chance, it is a symptom. The majority play mods, not the original game - long term. This across the board. That is why the modders - regardless the game - are extremely valuable members on these boards - among the most vital folk it will ever have probably - due to the stuff they create as it can be both played and discussed. Over and over again (this has also been proved btw). And it is not static, it is always evolving somehow, at some level somewhere. Nothing can truly compete with that. No guides, no AAR's, no articles, no contests, no nothing. Mods are the kind of stuff people sign up for, possibly more then anything else. Suffice to say that guides, AAR's etc. etc. are mere dwarfs in that context (if that even). And so, mods and related stuff (tools etc.) in general may very well be the most important material these boards can offer. Obviously, it's excellent if all the other stuff is offered as well - but - mods they are the killer, and the ORG must finally act accordingly. This site has suffered heavily for failing to do so, and that for a long time.

Now, the modded and altered game must be allowed to be more closely intertwined with the regular game-sections and what goes on there and not stay confined to “the basement” as is today’s practice. It is vital that Mods/alterations will finally be allowed to play a more prominent role on these boards. Direct links to hosted mods-sections should be set up in each regular-game section. Let the regular-game section function as hub, rather then a museum for the static original game. Make every important sub-section accessible from there. Make it the living and pumping heart of it all. Tech-help subforums as per each TW-game should be created and set up, a direct link to it in the regular game-section. An AAR’s archive/sub-forum should be set up as per each TW-game – also with direct link in the regular section. As new AAR’s are written and posted they should be allowed their “glory-lap” for a limited time (say 2 weeks) in the regular section before being transferred to the archive. Same thing goes for guides and after a “glory-lap” they too should be transferred into a “library” and preserved (also a subforum, and this regardless the subject or context, if it deals with XTW somehow it should be included) and made easily available and properly organized as well. Create indexes of medium-scaled (say 300+ files) and large-scaled (say 1000+ files) and grand-scaled mods (say 5000+ files), set up a sticky of that index in the regular section so it get easily, and visibly accessible for all. If no such full indexes are made – then create them right now, as all TW-game sections should have that (yesterday). Such an index should have at least have notes on: Mod Name/title:, theme/setting:, scale-class:, listing of all engine-specifications:, listing of language used:, listing of the latest version and status:, listing of release year: and listing of the creator/team that created it:. If it is not playable somehow it should not be indexed. The reasons for all this are obvious.

A standing specialized XTW “news-thread” and “news-commentary”-thread should be set up (stickied obviously). The first could be locked to keep it clean and orderly, the second open, so people can comment on any news as much as they like. And, the news-thread should be at least be updated in quarterly intervals (for all moddable games at least) - spring/summer/autumn/winter – updates (covering medium-, large- and grand-scale mods, releases of such, previews of such, mini-interviews, articles etc. etc.). Assign a content/news-person to each TW-game section (ideally somebody who is actually interested in that game) with the standing task of searching, finding and posting news somehow within that section so it can be reported upon both in that section and at the front page if significant enough (medium- , large- and grand-scale mod-releases for instance etc.). Make interviews or mini-interviews with interesting modders/other persons of that specialized community. Hold regular screen-contests, AAR’s or whatever have you – something – and work actively to get things active and happening (all section personnel should be tasked with this). Keeping the wheels spinning, so to speak. Activate people and give them purpose and a reason to stick around. This on all TW-games - at the same time (STW1 might be an exception for further discussion as it is barely possible to mod that game "meaningfully" – which is basically key-factor for all this to work).

The ORG-must thus start to engage and trust more people, and expand its staff somehow, and to make that easier it has to define and specify what each task means and what need to be done in that specific task - and in general. Offer recognition and rewards/awards/titles somehow to people that do a good job. And…. That recognition and reward/award has to be the real thing – not some more damn fluff. This means it can not be arbitrary but must be specified and pre-determined, and the integrity of that must be maintained and defended to preserve its value. That is true meritocracy and this place will need it to make all this work. Failure to properly enforce that and everything will fall apart, eventually. Obviously, we must always fight the constant dangers of abuse, corruption, nepotism and hypocrisy.

There will be plenty of tasks to deal with, and people must be enrolled to get things functioning. The ORG must essentially delegate responsibilities as we will need people to administrate and maintain each section and all in it. Each TW-section should strive for being virtually self-reliant and that means that a hierarchy to keep things in order will be probably advisable. Every position (whatever it may be) should be held in strictly limited time-intervals (pre-defined) in order to keep everybody sharp and serious in their work. The actual proceedings on how these positions are filled are open for debate. Anyways… It could look like this….

• Section general functionary. This person should be responsible for the entire section, and all proceedings happening there and all personnel working in that section, the task is to see to it that everything is working and to satisfactory standards. Obviously full moderating rights in entire TW-section.)
• Section regular functionary. This person should be responsible for one or more sub-section(s). Essentially an executive officer that makes sure A, B and C happens. Essentially the counterpart to what is a standard ORG staff-moderator is today, can hand out infractions etc. etc.
• Section junior functionary. There will be a bunch of sub-forums and tasks to deal with in ALL TW-sections. Things that needs to be maintained and kept clean and orderly. All this stuff can be done by “junior moderators” that have moderating right’s in the sub-forums/sections they are responsible for. Library's, archives, tech-forums, mod-forums, news-coverage etc. etc. All that can be done by junior staff recruited from respective community.

It is a rough outline but the general principle should be clear, delegation and a hierarchy somehow will be necessary for all this to work. I don't think there is any viable alternative to that.

Polemics...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The latest game doctrine…

The doctrine of “favouring the latest game” to ensure “new blood” has clearly been tried, tested and failed to deliver the desired results. There is little doubt that it has not provided the supposed “magic” of new blood and traffic. If it ever could do that - it would have already done so at this point. It has not. Not to any significant degree that warrants any continued practice of that doctrine. And, it is hardly a question of effort (because people here have certainly tried), it is matter of a flawed doctrine, based upon flawed premises.

It does not work and that’s the problem, because this has been done virtually everywhere and this means that the ORG has also effectively stripped itself of most advantages in the struggle for attention, interest and traffic. The casual gamer is not the future for this site, they never were. Once they are done with the game they leave it and move on to the next shiny thing they find, they are nomads who don’t give a rats ass about the ORG. All that effort to appease these casual gamers has then, once that stage is reached, been utterly wasted as they will still leave this site regardless. What is even worse is that this is conducted at the expense of the already “TW-faithfuls” of other and older games – as resources that could have served them, have instead been pulled away to serve and realize this folly.

Whatever strength the ORG had in the other TW-games has been further damaged because of this practice. It has to cease as the gains are nowhere enough to compensate the damage done by it. It is the hooked TW-people that counts and if this site can offer something unique and interesting enough for them, they will find their way here eventually and then stick around because of it. That is my analysis.

Alright, that's enough.... Now, I do not claim to know everything, I do not claim to have answers for everything, I do not claim to have full grasp of every detail everywhere or even that I have addressed every detail. I have only done the best I could with the info I have had and what little I know - whether that info is true, false or both - time will tell. I am open to discuss all of this, the best way I can.

- A

[Maltz]

I actually advocate for no direct competition with the TWC - honestly I think it is pointless to have two fansites that do almost the same things. I like to see the ORG specialize in certain things and appearl to specific groups of users, such as those who have been defining what the ORG is. I think most of us already have a pretty good idea of what kind of users we are, so it should be easy to come up with ideas to attract like-minded users.

Yet I agree that we have been quite lacking on the game side (for Shogun 2 at least), which serves to bring people to the ORG in the first place. Holding contests should be an effective way to increase interests, as the participants and winners will be more likely to base in the ORG for their future projects.

Being non-mainstream means that we can be more creative in pioneering new concepts and projects. Personally I feel forming close ties with a few nice folk is much more important than barely knowing ten thousand people. Once we give the regular contributors a sense of belonging and appreciation, they will stay.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I disagree with Axalon. I see no demand of older TW game communities to be treated "fairly" with the newest ones. It's a forum, the community doesn't care if lots of attention are given else ware as long as they are having fun with each other.

This would fall under "trying to beat the TWC at it's own game." but this is going about it the wrong way. The last thing the org needs is to waste time asking people "is your free forum not treating you like you want to be treated? Come to the org!" And then following that up with apparently stiff hierarchy placating those that come with daily pats on the back.

If that is what the org is going to do for some numbers, then I will be disappointed.