Military reforms?

[themilo]

Oh fantastic they kept the absolutely worst part of vanilla rome having to manually replace your armies after the marius reform, at least now I’m certain that rome 2 is better than this mod, say what you want about it but at the very least it doesn’t force me to spend 50 long boring turns replacing my entire army before I can have fun again.

[Kull]

Oh fantastic they kept the absolutely worst part of vanilla rome having to manually replace your armies after the marius reform, at least now I’m certain that rome 2 is better than this mod, say what you want about it but at the very least it doesn’t force me to spend 50 long boring turns replacing my entire army before I can have fun again.

That's what EB is all about - finding the worst elements of vanilla RTW and expanding on them! And if you think one manual reform is bad, Rome has THREE in EB! And other factions get reforms too, and even worse, the AI knows how to use them. So yes, far better that you spend your time playing R2.

[abou]

Oh fantastic they kept the absolutely worst part of vanilla rome having to manually replace your armies after the marius reform, at least now I’m certain that rome 2 is better than this mod, say what you want about it but at the very least it doesn’t force me to spend 50 long boring turns replacing my entire army before I can have fun again.

So I take it you will be quickly getting to work on a script that will replace all the units you have recruited with reformed units automatically?

Do go on.

[themilo]

So I take it you will be quickly getting to work on a script that will replace all the units you have recruited with reformed units automatically?

Do go on.

Just because I can’t fix something doesn’t invalidate my complaint, the only that would invalidate my complaint is that it’s simply impossible to mod units upgrading into better/different units.

[Ca Putt]

Eventho I've yet to see that actually happen in any mod I'd like to add a few points:

EB is all about Historical accuracy etc. having your Hastati on campaign in the forests of germania or the deserts of arabia magically transform into Marian legionaries, is just not plausible.
Reforms are changes, not simply upgrades. gameplaywise they are less upgrades than mechnics that unlock new units
Reformed units in EB are not always better than their early counterparts. Many players like to keep a few old units. For example the Camillian Triari clearly is a stronger unit than the Polybian one. It's not like the unreformed units become totally obsolete with the reform.
You don't have to "replace" all your armies. Just train new ones, Romans have enough money for that, and all others can slowly supplement their armies with new units. for example the Seleucid armoured Royal Guard, you simply add one (or two) to your royal army, they don't really replace anything. As romans you will probably have some armies with old equipment and others with new stuff. So what's the problem? Your old armies still kick butt, you just can'T retrain them anymore.
For romani the main advantage of reformed infantry is neither cost efficiency or raw strengh but availibility. While you can only train Cammilian troops in central italy, Marian legionaries can be trained virtually everywhere you'd want to go.

[themilo]

Eventho I've yet to see that actually happen in any mod I'd like to add a few points:

EB is all about Historical accuracy etc. having your Hastati on campaign in the forests of germania or the deserts of arabia magically transform into Marian legionaries, is just not plausible.
Reforms are changes, not simply upgrades. gameplaywise they are less upgrades than mechnics that unlock new units
Reformed units in EB are not always better than their early counterparts. Many players like to keep a few old units. For example the Camillian Triari clearly is a stronger unit than the Polybian one. It's not like the unreformed units become totally obsolete with the reform.
You don't have to "replace" all your armies. Just train new ones, Romans have enough money for that, and all others can slowly supplement their armies with new units. for example the Seleucid armoured Royal Guard, you simply add one (or two) to your royal army, they don't really replace anything. As romans you will probably have some armies with old equipment and others with new stuff. So what's the problem? Your old armies still kick butt, you just can'T retrain them anymore.
For romani the main advantage of reformed infantry is neither cost efficiency or raw strengh but availibility. While you can only train Cammilian troops in central italy, Marian legionaries can be trained virtually everywhere you'd want to go.

If there in Arabia then yes they should not change, if there in Italy they should.

I do admit that if reformed troops aren’t a straight up upgrade like they are in vanilla Rome then it’s not nearly as annoying, I also admit that even in vanilla Rome I should not have replaced my entire army although in my defense I didn’t expect it to be so boring, I still dislike the reforms since they result in a lot of tedious busywork since you can retrain a army a lot faster than you can build them and if I could I would remove them.

[abou]

Just because I can’t fix something doesn’t invalidate my complaint, the only that would invalidate my complaint is that it’s simply impossible to mod units upgrading into better/different units.

In this case, it does. Because there is actually no way to track every unit that gets changed in a reform that you have recruited and replace them exactly with a reform unit.

What's more, your complaint of something that impossible -- or at the least incredibly difficult -- to do has so turned you off from the mod that you've basically decided to throw it away.

[themilo]

In this case, it does. Because there is actually no way to track every unit that gets changed in a reform that you have recruited and replace them exactly with a reform unit.

What's more, your complaint of something that impossible -- or at the least incredibly difficult -- to do has so turned you off from the mod that you've basically decided to throw it away.

I’m not throwing this mod away just for one very annoying feature(that isent even the mods fault) but I can understand why you would think that, it’s very annoying but at least it’s one of those annoyances that only lasts a few(well okay more than a few) turns, what is this mod fault and what might make me give up on this mod is that instead of one reform there are several, hopefully the rest of the mod is good enough that I can overlook that.

[Ca Putt]

yeah retraining=reforming would be quite convenient. This however is sort of a Feature in EB2 afaik, not for romans but for celts, at least to some extent.

Also you don't have to Play as Rome, apart from rome only few factions have so many reformed Units that you'd Train new armies. And only celts sortof get into the same Situation as romans. For Saka rauka and Parthia is more like: Hey guys we can actually Train infantry now, awesome! so you don't replace your armies you just add a few ones that don't exclusively consist of horsearchers^^ It's similar with hayasdan, tho not as extreme.
Carthage, Arche seleukeia, Sweboz, Koinon hellenon, Makedonia and... who ever I forgot mainly just get a few new Units, added to their selection that can help make their armies more diverse/powerfull.

[Principe]

I feel that much of the fun is in the reforms. Working hard to get the Marian reforms is really good role play and gameplay wise. Play as a different faction if you want. The recruiting system is great. I made on legion of Hastati, Principes, and Triarii, but by the time I reached Gregovia, it was half Gallic. I love how it seems so realistic that an army that took heavy casualties might recruit local soldiers to fight for them.

[themilo]

yeah retraining=reforming would be quite convenient. This however is sort of a Feature in EB2 afaik, not for romans but for celts, at least to some extent.

Also you don't have to Play as Rome, apart from rome only few factions have so many reformed Units that you'd Train new armies. And only celts sortof get into the same Situation as romans. For Saka rauka and Parthia is more like: Hey guys we can actually Train infantry now, awesome! so you don't replace your armies you just add a few ones that don't exclusively consist of horsearchers^^ It's similar with hayasdan, tho not as extreme.
Carthage, Arche seleukeia, Sweboz, Koinon hellenon, Makedonia and... who ever I forgot mainly just get a few new Units, added to their selection that can help make their armies more diverse/powerfull.

The problem is that beside Rome carthage and Egypt nearly every other faction in the game is too hard for me, plus I want to play as Rome because beside the reforms I like playing as Rome.