Sensationalist UK Headline sparks Eurarabia Scare

[Husar]

******* barbarians.

I know, eating pork is sooo 8th century.

[Kadagar_AV]

I know, eating pork is sooo 8th century.

I am of course addressing people who find it sane that what they eat must come from an animal who has died in cognitional fear.

Absolutely Arabic... Barbaric I mean. Sorry for the Freudian slip.


I have had animals, and when it was time for them to die, I tried my utmost to make them die in a happy state, and without any pain what so ever.

Heck, I even helped a friends kill off his dog... Dog got a full day of fun, then we spread out his favourite candy on the grass.... As he was happily gobbling it down, I shot him in the head.


If you don't think animals AT THE VERY LEAST have the right to die in a dignified and easy way, you are an utter barbarian, who do not belong in civilized society.

To then think of people who actively choose to torture an animal in his moment of death... Just for food... Horrific. Absolutely horrific.

The hunters I know are the biggest animal friends.

The Muslims I unfortunately have to have in my surrounding seem like absolute... Yeah, I would be banned if I expressed my thoughts more clearly than I already have.

Yuck!!

[HoreTore]

Killing an animal in fear ruins the meat. Halal slaughter doesn't produce ruined food.

Hunting, on the other hand, results in around 8-10% wounded animals. Letting an elk run around with a bullet in its leg, what a wonderful way of showing your love of animals.

[Greyblades]

I am of course addressing people who find it sane that what they eat must come from an animal who has died in cognitional fear.

...go watch the 2005 movie earthlings.

[Pannonian]

I am of course addressing people who find it sane that what they eat must come from an animal who has died in cognitional fear.

Absolutely Arabic... Barbaric I mean. Sorry for the Freudian slip.


I have had animals, and when it was time for them to die, I tried my utmost to make them die in a happy state, and without any pain what so ever.

Heck, I even helped a friends kill off his dog... Dog got a full day of fun, then we spread out his favourite candy on the grass.... As he was happily gobbling it down, I shot him in the head.


If you don't think animals AT THE VERY LEAST have the right to die in a dignified and easy way, you are an utter barbarian, who do not belong in civilized society.

To then think of people who actively choose to torture an animal in his moment of death... Just for food... Horrific. Absolutely horrific.

The hunters I know are the biggest animal friends.

The Muslims I unfortunately have to have in my surrounding seem like absolute... Yeah, I would be banned if I expressed my thoughts more clearly than I already have.

Yuck!!

Are you a farmer, Kad? Have you ever eaten an animal that you've killed yourself, or at least watched someone kill for you? What did you think of the method of killing?

[Kadagar_AV]

Are you a farmer, Kad? Have you ever eaten an animal that you've killed yourself, or at least watched someone kill for you? What did you think of the method of killing?

I'm a vegetarian... I kill for joy and sports when I go hunting / fishing. My friends then benefit from my labour.

Mind you, contrary to Muslims I have the deepest respect for the animals I kill, and I do it as "cleanly" as I possibly could.

If you want to target me for being veggie, heck, as I said, the meat is given to friends. I don't object to killing animals for food, in civilized sort of ways. I object to intentionally not making the death process as easy as could be.

Some might claim that hunters only hit, but don't kill... From time to time...

Sure.

However.

A) The main staple of food is not from hunters.
B) A figure of what? 5-10 percent of animals being wounded - not killed is better than the 100% figure of Islamists.
C) Hunters, and the hunting society, are doing their best to make a clean shot. We/they might fail at times, but they do their best.

To seriously compare that to a RELIGION where animal torture is dogma is... *again, I dont' want to be banned*

Yuck.



EDIT: I had a pet parrot once. I smashed his skull in with a brick stone.

Kind of brutal, but functioning from what I wanted.

But hand to heart, would anyone suggest that the better way would have been to string him upside down, and then slit his throat?

Seriously?

[HoreTore]

Sure.

Halal slaughter, which consists of the last few seconds of the animals life, is horrible animal torture and barbarism.

The remaining couple of years spent in a tiny stall with no sunlight in our industrialized farms are just swell.

But that's for profit as opposed to morality, so I guess it's all-okay.

[Kadagar_AV]

Sure.

Halal slaughter, which consists of the last few seconds of the animals life, is horrible animal torture and barbarism.

The remaining couple of years spent in a tiny stall with no sunlight in our industrialized farms are just swell.

But that's for profit as opposed to morality, so I guess it's all-okay.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Seriously, grow the **** up.

You really make a case of Halal being OK as we in the western world take **** care of animals as they grow up?

In what way would that ever be an argument FOR halal food?

As stated, I am veggie, as I don't support the meat industry. I hunt and fish so my friends can have better food. That's it.

I have seen you defend weak cases before, but this one might make the prize winning one. Not in a good way though.

[HoreTore]

A focus on slaughter methods when discussing animal welfare is missing the point entirely. There's not a huge difference between the various methods, and switching from one to another won't make much of a difference.

There are a number of things we can do to improve animal welfare which will have a real impact. Slaughter methods ain't one of them.

But slaughter is a bloody business, and sure to catch the eye of those whose head starts hurting if they read more than three sentences. Boring stuff like number of hours in transport, stall dimensions and exercise just isn't as catchy. Sadly, they are far more important.


And please, do try to make an effort to express your opinions without adding childish **** at various spots in your posts.

[Kadagar_AV]

A focus on slaughter methods when discussing animal welfare is missing the point entirely. There's not a huge difference between the various methods, and switching from one to another won't make much of a difference.

There are a number of things we can do to improve animal welfare which will have a real impact. Slaughter methods ain't one of them.

But slaughter is a bloody business, and sure to catch the eye of those whose head starts hurting if they read more than three sentences. Boring stuff like number of hours in transport, stall dimensions and exercise just isn't as catchy. Sadly, they are far more important.


And please, do try to make an effort to express your opinions without adding childish **** at various spots in your posts.

That's all well and good.

Of course we should strive to make the slaughtering process as "humane" as possible. We in the western world strive for it but fail as is (in some cases, not all).

That however does not, in any way, explain why we should let Muslims get away with known torture in 100% of the cases.

Here is a childish thing for you... And you only. _ _ _ _ you.

It's like a hangman game, fill in the blanks.

[Pannonian]

A veggie. That explains a lot, both here and elsewhere.

[HoreTore]

Referring to kosher slaughter as 'torture' is just plain hyperbole.

If that's the standard for torture, I can't really think of any aspect of modern farming which doesn't classify as torture.

But it does fit you posting style, I'll give you that.

Point being, whenever there's an article about ritual slaughter, the outrage meter bursts. Whenever there's an article about animal transport distances, there's absolute silence. Indeed, the only outrage we hear in that situation are the cries for more efficient agriculture and cheaper food.

And more efficiency in agriculture will, of course, mean less animal welfare. Or 'more torture' in your language.

[Kadagar_AV]

A veggie. That explains a lot, both here and elsewhere.

Why?

Like, what have I said as vegetarian that explains something else in a derogatory way? Either play ball or remove yourself from the field. Very blatant and sweeping generalizations just wont cut it with me.

Mind you, I probably hunt better than you. I am just speaking of averages here, I have no idea how you actually hunt.

[Pannonian]

Referring to kosher slaughter as 'torture' is just plain hyperbole.

If that's the standard for torture, I can't really think of any aspect of modern farming which doesn't classify as torture.

But it does fit you posting style, I'll give you that.

Point being, whenever there's an article about ritual slaughter, the outrage meter bursts. Whenever there's an article about animal transport distances, there's absolute silence. Indeed, the only outrage we hear in that situation are the cries for more efficient agriculture and cheaper food.

And more efficiency in agriculture will, of course, mean less animal welfare. Or 'more torture' in your language.

Hang on, he's only bashing Muslims here. The halal form of animal slaughter is torture, whereas kosher is ok. Unless Kad wants to call Jews barbarians as well for doing functionally the same thing. Well, Kad, what do you think of Jews?

[Kadagar_AV]

Hang on, he's only bashing Muslims here. The halal form of animal slaughter is torture, whereas kosher is ok. Unless Kad wants to call Jews barbarians as well for doing functionally the same thing. Well, Kad, what do you think of Jews?

Either a practice is barbaric or not.

Why do you think I would go softer on Jews? Heck, they - much like Arabians even mutilate their own sons. They also wage a perpetual war.

Uh... It's kind of a laugh, you have been here since 2005. You should, by now, have learnt that I defend what is humane and logical - in that order.


EDIT: As half Austrian my hands are pretty tied on the whole Jewish dilemma. The last Austrian to dwell into it kind of failed in his ambitions. It lead to a world with Jews galore - if it's positive or not - with a minority having majority in a minority of important stuff like media is positive or not.... Is a whole other debate :)

[HoreTore]

Mind you, I probably hunt better than you. I am just speaking of averages here, I have no idea how you actually hunt.

Are you accusing Pannonian of not being good at sitting on his bum and waiting?

I'll let Cartman give the appropriate response to this:

[Pannonian]

Either a practice is barbaric or not.

Why do you think I would go softer on Jews? Heck, they - much like Arabians even mutilate their own sons. They also wage a perpetual war.

Uh... It's kind of a laugh, you have been here since 2005. You should, by now, have learnt that I defend what is humane and logical - in that order.


EDIT: As half Austrian my hands are pretty tied on the whole Jewish dilemma. The last Austrian to dwell into it kind of failed in his ambitions. It lead to a world with Jews galore - if it's positive or not - with a minority having majority in a minority of important stuff like media is positive or not.... Is a whole other debate :)

Fair enough. I'll quote your posts from this page, suitably edited so that Muslims aren't singled out illogically.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I am of course addressing people who find it sane that what they eat must come from an animal who has died in cognitional fear.

Absolutely Jewish... Barbaric I mean. Sorry for the Freudian slip.


I have had animals, and when it was time for them to die, I tried my utmost to make them die in a happy state, and without any pain what so ever.

Heck, I even helped a friends kill off his dog... Dog got a full day of fun, then we spread out his favourite candy on the grass.... As he was happily gobbling it down, I shot him in the head.


If you don't think animals AT THE VERY LEAST have the right to die in a dignified and easy way, you are an utter barbarian, who do not belong in civilized society.

To then think of people who actively choose to torture an animal in his moment of death... Just for food... Horrific. Absolutely horrific.

The hunters I know are the biggest animal friends.

The Jews I unfortunately have to have in my surrounding seem like absolute... Yeah, I would be banned if I expressed my thoughts more clearly than I already have.

Yuck!!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm a vegetarian... I kill for joy and sports when I go hunting / fishing. My friends then benefit from my labour.

Mind you, contrary to Jews I have the deepest respect for the animals I kill, and I do it as "cleanly" as I possibly could.

If you want to target me for being veggie, heck, as I said, the meat is given to friends. I don't object to killing animals for food, in civilized sort of ways. I object to intentionally not making the death process as easy as could be.

Some might claim that hunters only hit, but don't kill... From time to time...

Sure.

However.

A) The main staple of food is not from hunters.
B) A figure of what? 5-10 percent of animals being wounded - not killed is better than the 100% figure of Jews.
C) Hunters, and the hunting society, are doing their best to make a clean shot. We/they might fail at times, but they do their best.

To seriously compare that to a RELIGION where animal torture is dogma is... *again, I dont' want to be banned*

Yuck.



EDIT: I had a pet parrot once. I smashed his skull in with a brick stone.

Kind of brutal, but functioning from what I wanted.

But hand to heart, would anyone suggest that the better way would have been to string him upside down, and then slit his throat?

Seriously?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That's all well and good.

Of course we should strive to make the slaughtering process as "humane" as possible. We in the western world strive for it but fail as is (in some cases, not all).

That however does not, in any way, explain why we should let Jews get away with known torture in 100% of the cases.

Here is a childish thing for you... And you only. _ _ _ _ you.

It's like a hangman game, fill in the blanks.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Seriously, grow the **** up.

You really make a case of Kosher being OK as we in the western world take **** care of animals as they grow up?

In what way would that ever be an argument FOR halal food?

As stated, I am veggie, as I don't support the meat industry. I hunt and fish so my friends can have better food. That's it.

I have seen you defend weak cases before, but this one might make the prize winning one. Not in a good way though.

[Kadagar_AV]

Fair enough. I'll quote your posts from this page, suitably edited so that Muslims aren't singled out illogically.

Yeah? So what?

LOL, it looks like you try to make me repent because another religion is doing the same.

AGAIN: Two wrongs don't make a right.

I think both religions are *explicit".

Hint: Bronze age to iron age desert living tribes.

[Fragony]

Sure.

Halal slaughter, which consists of the last few seconds of the animals life, is horrible animal torture and barbarism.

The remaining couple of years spent in a tiny stall with no sunlight in our industrialized farms are just swell.

But that's for profit as opposed to morality, so I guess it's all-okay.

Takes a little bit longer than a few seconds...

[HoreTore]

Takes a little bit longer than a few seconds...

In the scale of an animals life, no.

(even for chickens)

[Kadagar_AV]

Last time I checked, the "I hate all races and cultures equally" stance was still a sound one, though unpalatable.

Have I ever given the impression that I hate Muslims believers of what it says in the Quaran to equal standards as the rest?

Or Jews?

I have a problem with the USAnians and the British.

I have a beef with the French.

I have an absolute distaste towards Jewish and Arabic policies...

Did that sort it out for you? I never once claimed I hate all cultures equally. Heck, some I even like.

[Fragony]

In the scale of an animals life, no.

(even for chickens)

Animals that are butchered halal come from the same industrial stables, but also die in a horrible way, which is unnecarily cruel. A lot of halal butchers do stun them first mind you, it are the (religious) jews who insist that the animal is concious, muslims are more flexible.

[Kadagar_AV]

Animals that are butchered halal come from the same industrial stables, but also die in a horrible way, which is unnecarily cruel. A lot of halal butchers do stun them first mind you, it are the (religious) jews who insist that the animal is concious, muslims are more flexible.

Why are you even answering him??

He is ridiculed enough by what he posts, it's just rude to rub it in.

[HoreTore]

Animals that are butchered halal come from the same industrial stables, but also die in a horrible way, which is unnecarily cruel. A lot of halal butchers do stun them first mind you, it are the (religious) jews who insist that the animal is concious, muslims are more flexible.

Basically everyone in the western Europe now, isn't it? Including the Subway butchers, it seems.

Anyway, there's a long, long way from appearing to experience pain in the 20 seconds or so of consciousness after a slit throat to 'die in a horrible way'.

[Kadagar_AV]

Basically everyone in the western Europe now, isn't it? Including the Subway butchers, it seems.

Anyway, there's a long, long way from appearing to experience pain in the 20 seconds or so of consciousness after a slit throat to 'die in a horrible way'.

You don't think it inhumane for a conscious brain to have its throat slit while hanging upside down?

Seriously speaking, would you like that to be YOUR ending?

You just made a brain fart. Again. The least you could do is excuse yourself.

[HoreTore]

You don't think it inhumane for a conscious brain to have its throat slit while hanging upside down?

No. I do not, given that killing itself is not deemed inhumane.

[Kadagar_AV]

No. I do not, given that killing itself is not deemed inhumane.

Well then, I guess you and I have different understandings towards respect for the animal.

/Hunter

[HoreTore]

Well then, I guess you and I have different understandings towards respect for the animal.

/Hunter

Ah yes, it is of course so much more horrible than making every tenth animal run for a mile with a bullet in its leg before collapsing due to exhaustion and blood loss to die a slow, slow death.

That's so humane.

[Fragony]

Basically everyone in the western Europe now, isn't it? Including the Subway butchers, it seems.

Anyway, there's a long, long way from appearing to experience pain in the 20 seconds or so of consciousness after a slit throat to 'die in a horrible way'.

It can also takes longer than 20 seconds, it can take a minute of choking in their blood. With lambs and sheep it usually goes pretty fast, but with cows it takes a long time before they are dead, and they do suffer a lot, they have looked at the brain activity of a cow that was butchered, and it was in severe pain. There is no need for that, it's 2014, we have the means to make it less unpleasant.

[HoreTore]

It can also takes longer than 20 seconds

Lot's of funky stuff can happen at a slaughter house. The extremes, however, should never form the basis of policy.

Stun guns frequently malfunction. Should we dismantle all our slaughterhouses because of it?

And to illustrate the ridiculousness of much of the opposition to halal/kosher slaughter; compare the slaughter of chickens. The chicken butcher here has just hired a guy who reads a bit from the quran while the slaughter wheel is spinning. Didn't stop Norwegians from going bonkers when they discovered that the butchers two brands of chicken meat(one halal, one non-halal) only differed on packaging...