Converting Civilization3 unit animations

[Stazi]

CTDs are caused by "critical" folders and new factions, not textures.

I've done some tests and it appears that the problem persists no matter what tricks I try. The problem is not directly connected with new factions. First, 20 factions declared in startpos work flawlessly. This includes Scots (19th) and Moldavian (20th) which are new factions. All the next factions (21-30) have about 90% of causing CTD. Sometimes they work, especially when one of those 20 factions used the problematic unit folder before. So, it looks like some hardcoded limit form MTW 1.0 that devs forget to change in later, more mod friendly versions.

IMHO factions 21-30 should be the smallest and poorest of all to minimize the chance of bribery and CTD.

[zweihander]

I think it would be more efficient to convert Civ3 units if we can cooperate together.

I already export the Estalian Swordsman(made by T-mun) into BMP format(files in the 'Custom6.rar' attachment) and already get rid of the background/shadow/semi-transparent pixels obstacles. The files are look like this:


The only remained step is to cut and paste these pieces into 12 BMP frames and import them into a BIF. Anyone like to help?

Hope someone can help with this, it would reduce my workload. If no one want to do this, I would find some time to finish the frames later.

[Stazi]

I'll be glad to help but I have limited time too. I'm still working on those 1024p textures. I have some problems with weapons and shields placement as they are not as easy to define as animation frames. When I have more free time I'll let you know.

[Stazi]

More tests and more results. First the file I've prepared:

LOTR black horse on the bottom right. Not as black as original mongol horse but I think black enough.


I declared Atli Tatarlar as "LIHORSE, YES, YES, LiHorse" and here are results:

A you can see spaces between soldiers have to be reduced.


How they look comparing to the size of Tatars from old 512p texture (below). You can see that old/big Tatars already use additinal small LiHorse (they use the same LiHorse folder for their mount). This is how they look without touching the SCALE.
An advantage is that smaller soldier sprites don't get anti-aliased and blurred that much as old, bigger units. They look sharp despite their low resolution.


So, i think we can use any combination we want. Using the same folder for horse and horse+rider is not a problem.

[cegorach]

Good to see how it looks. Can you post images after you manipulate the scale of the models? Comparison with 'normal' animations will be nice to see.

Similar with cavalry which uses weapons - I suspect moving those spears can be tricky in 1024p file.


For now no need to convert the animations, that will take a lot of time which right now can be used for something more valuable.

Animations can wait as long as necessary to make them and as long as confortable it is to find time for this work - hardly most pleasant activity give the number of files to convert, in my opinion.

I think that if there are any ideas for new animations those can be made in 1024p files - won't be available in 1.6, but it will save the effort to rework them for 2.0.



It is a small wonder how much can be done with this game. Outstanding how much space for modding was left by the creators, I guess they never suspected we could use those possibilities whenever they've left those by mistake or intentionally...
after all all this stuff actually works in the game even if it is so far from the original.

[Stazi]

Good to see how it looks. Can you post images after you manipulate the scale of the models? Comparison with 'normal' animations will be nice to see.

Scale set to max (225). On the right is new Atli Tatarlar, on the left old Izci Tatarlar. Surprisingly, they look exactly the same as the old ones. Usually there is a 20-30% difference.

Similar with cavalry which uses weapons - I suspect moving those spears can be tricky in 1024p file.

I'll make one tomorrow. Yes, it's tricky because I can't use Excel to automate recalculation of frame rectangles. Readbif is a little cumbersome to use.

It is a small wonder how much can be done with this game. Outstanding how much space for modding was left by the creators, I guess they never suspected we could use those possibilities whenever they've left those by mistake or intentionally...
after all all this stuff actually works in the game even if it is so far from the original.

Exactly! That's the main reason I enjoy digging in this stuff over and over again. Nearly, every time I found something I didn't know before. For example we use resized to 31px width (and thus distorted) EU2 shields for campaign map pieces while we can use use them as they are about 50px width. It's a small thing but ugliness of those shields really bothered me.

[zweihander]

A question:
For example, if I put a unit animation into a 512p bif and set its scale too 100. Then I put the same unit animation to a 1024p bif and set its scale to 200, but no other changes, the colour table remain the same.
In this case, is there any difference between these two unit in game? any anti-aliased/blurred difference?

[Stazi]

A question:
For example, if I put a unit animation into a 512p bif and set its scale too 100. Then I put the same unit animation to a 1024p bif and set its scale to 200, but no other changes, the colour table remain the same.

They look very similar. Difference is very small if any.

In this case, is there any difference between these two unit in game? any anti-aliased/blurred difference?

Image quality looks he same too.

But, as you mentioned before, their bodies will be different (twice as big for scale 200) because we have only one file with all bodies of the same size.

[zweihander]

Thanks!

To those weapons and shields, I think move them to a 1024p bif only need to edit the CustomX/Weapons.txt, but don't need to edit the Items/WeaponX/UnitName.txt, is this right?

[zweihander]

Got the permission from T-mun today and I finished the idle pose and test it in game.

Obviously, it is smaller than the Landsknecht I converted before though I increase its scale to 225, because Civ3 unit graphics are made in different size by different modders. But if we use the 1024p method in the future and all units are a bit smaller, this would not be a big problem IMO.

[cegorach]

[QUOTE=Stazi;2053687184]Scale set to max (225). On the right is new Atli Tatarlar, on the left old Izci Tatarlar. Surprisingly, they look exactly the same as the old ones. Usually there is a 20-30% difference.


So those odd, small horses are from which file - I assume the new one, right?

I'll make one tomorrow. Yes, it's tricky because I can't use Excel to automate recalculation of frame rectangles. Readbif is a little cumbersome to use.

That makes all those unit animations where soldiers appear with weapons in their hands (most of infantry in PMTW) considerably easier to convert to 1024p. Good. There is a large number of those which could be easily (but time consuming) imported to bigger files. Good.

Exactly! That's the main reason I enjoy digging in this stuff over and over again. Nearly, every time I found something I didn't know before. For example we use resized to 31px width (and thus distorted) EU2 shields for campaign map pieces while we can use use them as they are about 50px width. It's a small thing but ugliness of those shields really bothered me.

Yes, the shileld problem really bothered me too, but I didn't want to test the engine with something like this. All the better it can be done.

[cegorach]

Scale set to max (225). On the right is new Atli Tatarlar, on the left old Izci Tatarlar. Surprisingly, they look exactly the same as the old ones. Usually there is a 20-30% difference.

In such a case we might be able to include them in 1.6 - solely for those couple of Tartar units (heavy cavalry can use old directory, no need to change it).
Mount files do not need to use old horse graphic directories? In this case no need to change LiHorse .txt, just add another one using the mount in re-scaled Tartar file.

By keeping the Tartar animations in the same animation directory they are now we'd avoid many problems - much less work with Unit.prod files, unit .txt files changed, but only those very few which alread use Tartar cavalry animations.
At the same time we could use the opportunity to test the graphics in the game a little earlier and it would spare some work in the future since the file will be already there.

Current LiHorse can stay the same right now and will be a useful directory to explore when/if all cavalry graphics are changed for 2.0.

[cegorach]

BTW Here is the grey horse from NTW. I have a permission from years back so it can be used by us in the future.


graphics

EHorse.rar

action page

EHorse.txt

[Stazi]

Thanks!

To those weapons and shields, I think move them to a 1024p bif only need to edit the CustomX/Weapons.txt, but don't need to edit the Items/WeaponX/UnitName.txt, is this right?

I have to edit every single charge, walk, fight.txt files. If I don't, weapons and shields float above soldiers heads. X,Y origin for weapons is related to a frame rectangle. 1024p textures have smaller frame rectangles (half height, half wight) and that's why all those weapon/shield animations have to be recalculated. But don't worry. I've found that they can be recalculated via Excel too. They just need different formulas.

There is also one more little issue about weapons in 1024p. It looks like this:
http://www.runners-world.pl/forum/up...1378806454.jpg

Poles are simply too thick. We'll probably need to manually edit texture and thinner them a bit. That's something I need to test.

Scale set to max (225). On the right is new Atli Tatarlar, on the left old Izci Tatarlar. Surprisingly, they look exactly the same as the old ones. Usually there is a 20-30% difference.

So those odd, small horses are from which file - I assume the new one, right?

Izci Tatarlar on the left uses old 512p texture for soldier (MOCOSCAV) and new 1024p texture LiHorse folder for mount - "MOCOSCAV, YES, YES, LiHorse".
Atli Tatarlar on the right takes all graphics from the same LiHorse folder so horses have the same size - "LIHORSE, YES, YES, LiHorse"

[zweihander]

That makes all those unit animations where soldiers appear with weapons in their hands (most of infantry in PMTW) considerably easier to convert to 1024p. Good. There is a large number of those which could be easily (but time consuming) imported to bigger files. Good.

I suggest to move Custom7, CUSTOM8, HUSCARLE and LgTuCnHi into one 1024p BIF if possible. These 4 are all hand-drawing infantry unit in similar colours and without weapon/shield items.

I have to edit every single charge, walk, fight.txt files. If I don't, weapons and shields float above soldiers heads. X,Y origin for weapons is related to a frame rectangle. 1024p textures have smaller frame rectangles (half height, half wight) and that's why all those weapon/shield animations have to be recalculated. But don't worry. I've found that they can be recalculated via Excel too. They just need different formulas.

There is also one more little issue about weapons in 1024p. It looks like this:
http://www.runners-world.pl/forum/up...1378806454.jpg

Poles are simply too thick. We'll probably need to manually edit texture and thinner them a bit. That's something I need to test.

Oh no, editing those files is a nightmare...

About the width of the weapons, I have a little discovery, tell you later when I back to my own computer tonight.

[cegorach]

I suggest to move Custom7, CUSTOM8, HUSCARLE and LgTuCnHi into one 1024p BIF if possible. These 4 are all hand-drawing infantry unit in similar colours and without weapon/shield items.

A fair point, no hurry, but directories worth remembering for the future.

[cegorach]

A short summary of animation directories which cause CTDs:

"Peasant"

Used by Spanish Archeros, Russian Oprychniki and Turkish elite cavalry.


"ChainHlm"

Solely for armoured steeds used by Mamluks and perhaps by Turkey.


"HlPlArSH"


Only for Imperial ( German_HRE) dragoons.



"LArmWCav"


Solely for French dragoons in later XVII century.



"MKnight"

Skii infantry only.



"MSHelm"


One-winged Polish Hussars, Spanish light cavalry, French royal musketeers.


"PlateS"


Only for Polish infantry/dragoons of late period, can be used for Russian elite infantry/dragoons in blue uniforms.

I suppose you haven't seen the last one? I am not sure I have ever posted their image, but there was some work involved and I am not 100% sure I have finished this unit. I'll have to check soon.

EDIT - yeah, they are ready:



The unit in game, next to Lithuanian Hussars (no wings).

The animations are altered Russian Streltsy with different faces, caps, berdishes and blue uniforms.

"Peasant"
"ChainHlm"
"HlPlArSH"
"LArmWCav"
"MKnight"
"MSHelm"
"PlateS"

A number of those can be easily combined as long as the palettes allow that. Blue uniforms is something I really want to save for those guys who are using them, same for colourful uniforms of certain units.

All those animations are assigned to rare units used by main factions, so very unlikely to cause CTDs, but if they are combined it will take no more than 2 directories to make the units safe to use, all of them.
This way some could find different uses if we want to, not many though because they were made often for very specific units and nothing else.

[zweihander]

You have already shown it here.
And I'm interested in another unit anim showed in the same post, the Bavarian cavalry charging with a longsword(an estoc?), is it already in 1.5 or will be in 1.6, or 2.0?






@Stazi

About the width of the weapons, I have a little discovery, tell you later when I back to my own computer tonight.

For example, this is a weapon's code in the WEAPONS.TXT:
53,190,87,204,3,4
as you know, it is x1,y1,x2,y2,length,width
if you change the number of y1 smaller and y2 bigger, such as:
53,180,87,214,3,4
then, the weapon will looks much thiner in game.

[Stazi]

For example, this is a weapon's code in the WEAPONS.TXT:
53,190,87,204,3,4
as you know, it is x1,y1,x2,y2,length,width
if you change the number of y1 smaller and y2 bigger, such as:
53,180,87,214,3,4
then, the weapon will looks much thiner in game.

Ha! It's so obvious when you know about it. Thanks a lot!

[cegorach]

You have already shown it here.
And I'm interested in another unit anim showed in the same post, the Bavarian cavalry charging with a longsword(an estoc?), is it already in 1.5 or will be in 1.6, or 2.0?

Oh, well at least the dragoon pose is here to see.


Bavarians are the famous 'one angle trick' used so often in the mod.

[zweihander]

Cegorach, it is possible that add weapons(swords/sabers) on the body's hand in the fighting anim for all hand-drawing cavalry unit animations, just like the winged hussar's fighting anim?
You know, the 'item' swords/sabers always floating on the sky when fighting...

[cegorach]

Depends on space and what weapons are in use.

As you can see there wasn't enough of space for weapons in hands, but I suppose with 1024p it is doable as long as there is someone willing to do it.

Obviously not every single weapon can be added/used - spears, lances and pikes have to be kept separately.
Swords, sabres, rapiers etc are easier.

Cavalry animations usually use something like three-four poses for attack moves and repeat them as many times as it is necessary.
So it is a question of 12-16 small images for each cavalry unit which uses such weapons.

[Stazi]

Oh no, editing those files is a nightmare...

I've just tested it. All you need to do is divide all x,y pairs by 2 (it takes like 1 second in Excel). Generally, all the numbers except the last in each line which is always 0 or 1. For weapons it looks like this:

x1    y1    x2    y2     z

-1    -27    -5    -30    0
0    -26    -4    -32    0
0    -22    -2    -28    0
1    -22    -2    -28    0
0    -24    -2    -31    0
0    -24    -3    -31    0
-1    -27    -5    -30    0
0    -27    -5    -27    0
-1    -27    -6    -27    0
0    -27    -5    -26    0
0    -26    -4    -27    0
0    -26    -4    -27    0

I pretty sure similar approach will work on shields.

1024p Mongol Heavy Cavalry in all its glory.



Those spears rendered before the soldier don't looks that good. Maybe I should move them behind the horsemen?

[Stazi]

So, because we sorted out most of the problems concerning 1024p textures I'd like to know what to do? Which animations go to which folder - that kind of things. I'd like to start making a real progress on this. Except the map, new/renewed units are probably the most important part.

[cegorach]

I thought it could wait, but if you wish to start I'll have a look tomorrow. It will require checking the palettes so that certain colours aren't lost.


It was sensibly suggested to combine Custom7, CUSTOM8, HUSCARLE and LgTuCnHi in one directory - I'd pick Custom7 for simplicity, but you can choose if you wish.

It is all infantry with handguns and no weapons, so should be easier.

[cegorach]

Those spears rendered before the soldier don't looks that good. Maybe I should move them behind the horsemen?

Yes, in this case it will make it look much better, at least from close distance.

[Stazi]

I thought it could wait, but if you wish to start I'll have a look tomorrow. It will require checking the palettes so that certain colours aren't lost.

Don't worry. I'll take care of the palettes. Just let me know what goes where. If there be any chance of losing something I'll ask you what to do but judging on what I've seen the new, hand-drawn units don't use as much colors as the old ones.

But if we want to wait with those units so what should I do now? GUI certainly can wait as we already has one. A totally new units from CIV3?

[cegorach]

But if we want to wait with those units so what should I do now? GUI certainly can wait as we already has one. A totally new units from CIV3?

Ok, so let's begin with the conversion.

It will have to happen sooner or later and new animations from CiV3 should be imported to 1024p files because they will end like ones anyway.



Please start with those four units, just tell me the file where they will be. I'll build a list who goes were soon.



Also, since you have the permission why not import some graphics from LOTR?

I had a look and

Dervish can work well as Gallowglass,

Janni are all right for some sneaky highland guerillas,

PesTunic - are necessary for dismounted nomads,

and even MongCost could be useful if we need rangers in hoods and armed with bows and swords. The last one is rather unlikely to find any use, so is unnecessary, but the rest seems pretty good.

[cegorach]

I'll use this post for the list of combined animations showing which directories will be available.



LiHorse - done and full

Mocoscav

MonghHkav

are empty




Custom7, CUSTOM8, HUSCARLE and LgTuCnHi

go to ?

[zweihander]

It will have to happen sooner or later and new animations from CiV3 should be imported to 1024p files because they will end like ones anyway

Ah, you forget about the size of the civ3 units… if they're imported into a 1024p bif, that they will become extrmely small. They can only imported into 512p bif IMO.