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Thread: Visor's Small Mafia Game [Concluded]

  1. #1171
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Newyn View Post
    Not sure I understand what you mean. I'm voting someone who voted to save Pizza. I can see wolves doing that regardless of whether Pizza is town or scum (either to gain town credit or to save a buddy)

    There is actually one world of Pizza scum where I can win and that is if we lynch both of pizza's buddies before lynching him. Town can't mislynch me if there's no more wolves to lynch.
    But you aren't a mislynch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    Barto, please don't buy Pizza's framing here. I'm perfectly nightkillable. I always have been. I'm playing WIFOM with a single-use bulletproof vest that I lose once used, regardless if I've actually been shot at or not. I have never had, nor have I ever claimed, to have a passive NK protection. It's all up to me faking out the scum correctly for a missed kill, or not.

    Pizza keeps ignoring this and claiming the opposite in order to fit his "theory" better.
    Yes, yes, I'm not moving my vote off him.
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
    Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
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  2. #1172
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Sorry, then Khaan will always be scum
    Only if Newyn isn't.
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
    Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
    I see I've been sigged yet again -Askthepizzaguy, 02/08/2012
    Hindsight is 20/20 Askthepizzaguy, 10/07/2013

  3. #1173

    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    How? As I explained to Pizza, this only makes sense if the alternative was to contest the likely lynch of a scum partner the next day, during LYLO. The only way saving Pizza makes sense is if:

    1. A scum partner is the next candidate for lynch after Pizza.
    2. Pizza is not pushing that scum partner.

    So for scenario with town Pizza that leaves one possible team: a Khaan team.

    Khaan is the only person who fits the above two conditions, in that he is not being pushed by Pizza and he is (was) a top candidate for lynch with Pizza out of the picture.

    If Pizza is town and you are town, then Khaan will always be town, unless you believe scum decided to give themselves a handicap for fun.
    Assuming town pizza, why would they not push an al sips wagon?
    If Pizza had been lynched, can you honestly tell me that you believe Khaan would be the top suspect and not the person who survived the counter wagon - aka Al Sips?

  4. #1174

    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    But you aren't a mislynch.

    Yes, yes, I'm not moving my vote off him.
    I know I am, you're free to think what you want but that doesn't change my role and what I know.

  5. #1175

    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    If Pizza had been lynched, can you honestly tell me that you believe Khaan would be the top suspect and not the person who survived the counter wagon - aka Al Sips?
    We know Al Sips is town, and so would the scum. Which, again, means they had no reason to save Pizza.

    Al Sips wagon existed because Pizza pushed it. Without Pizza, he would not have been a major suspect - but again, enough to get in the way of your lynch or atheotes lynch if that's where scum is.

    Atheotes scum has no reason for it, nor Monty scum nor Renata scum nor Barto scum nor Bsmith scum nor you as scum. Only Khaan as scum might want it, and even then it would be a rather large risk.
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  6. #1176
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    How it happened.wall of text

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Unvote: atheotes
    Vote: Al sipsclar

    If we can get the vote movement that way, otherwise I go back.
    At this point in the game I had been pushing atheotes, El Barto, and Al Sipsclar, but my vote was on atheotes. When that didn't take, I voted Al Sips.

    I had already claimed to be a vigilante.

    Pizza is a villager voting for a villager, while accusing probably at least one other villager, while having claimed to shoot a villager, having lynched a couple villagers.

    At this point if I lynch, that is one less Al Sipsclar voter, and people have to explain why they lynched the claimed vigilante.

    Instead, votes move to Al Sipsclar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    vote: Al Sipsclar

    Can't believe I'm doing this. But we need both options.
    @novice -- why was scum vig your working theory?
    Like this one.

    At this point in time, Novice, a townie, votes for pizza.

    Quote Originally Posted by novice View Post
    Renata, I mean, where are you headed with your vote. I'm not following you off Pizza/Khaan.
    (If I were, my third preference would be Atheotes.)

    Reading Pizza's day two I see nothing leading up to a Zack vigging.

    Vote: Pizza
    If Novice is successful, novice can be lynched the next day (today) instead. If Novice is not successful, Renata was voting elsewhere anyway. And so was El Barto. Wasn't their fault.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Time to rally.

    Unvote: Khaan

    Vote: Pizza
    After all, he's just helping another townie lynch me. Won't be his fault.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newyn View Post
    Vote: Pizza

    I've been more paranoid about Zack and Stork than most of the thread and I don't see myself shooting either of them as a one shot vig over multiple other people that I think would have given more information.
    Actually invests in the vote with a reason. Shows his work and his thinking. This vote is not unreasonable. It's not how I play but it's a process I can understand.

    Meanwhile, El Barto keeps his vote parked away from the fracas.

    Quote Originally Posted by atheotes View Post
    going with 4 scum, a smattering of PRs to balance out.

    scum 2 - El barto/Al Sips -
    scum 3 - Newyn/Khaan
    scum 4 - BSmith/Novice
    This is too many names.

    Quote Originally Posted by atheotes View Post
    Nice hedge!
    Stuff like this shows atheotes is focused elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by atheotes View Post
    I cant shake the feeling that pizza is scum. the fact that he has claimed 1-shot gives me pause.
    He chose to shoot Zack, whom he has claimed he was unable to read. I cant understand the choice.

    We are 10 alive now.
    if we have 4 scum - mislynch today and game over possibly. it doest make sense unless there are some town PRs that can reduce kill power or atleast aid in catching scum.
    But we have a claim for additional kill power and 1-time limited save.
    It makes me believe that we have 3 scum with an additional 1 shot kill ability.
    Vote: Pizza
    atheotes likewise invests in his read of me as scum and explains his thinking. This vote and his sticking to that read even when Al becomes a possibility doesn't clear him, and I wish he wouldn't keep waiting until close to the end of rounds to make that investment.

    For those reasons I opened with a vote on him today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newyn View Post
    Where I'm at:
    I think Pizza is lying but there's one thing I can't ignore - BSmith and El Barto have been off wagon literally every day.
    Could we be completely wrong and be in a situation where we've had V/V wagons 3 days in a row with BSmith and El Barto avoiding everything to not attract attention?
    The last minute save of me and the prediction it was v/v wagons gave me pause. I come into this round super paranoid that it is Newyn.

    Newyn bringing attention to El Barto and making the critical vote that does attract attention to himself, and prefacing it before making the vote movement demonstrates commitment to the read. Somewhat. He still thinks I'm lying.

    But he's not boxing me in completely today. And no one who says he's scum is actually pushing it, they're making a show of it. That doesn't look great for Newyn but it looks worse for his accusers.

    Quote Originally Posted by BSmith View Post
    Alright. Let's make this interesting. vote: Al Sips
    Bsmith doesn't make the critical vote but makes the vote which makes Newyn's vote possible. He's taking a stand while Renata is waffling about both wagons and El Barto is off wagon.

    Granted he's in an entirely perfectly safe position regardless so this is null. But it's not scummy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    Up to you, atheotes.
    Seems to be prompting atheotes to hop wagons and end up getting blamed for the result. She didn't have me as townie and didn't strongly invest in the Al Sips read either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Sips wagon had 4 townies on it. Lynch outside of that wagon and you win the game 90% of the time.
    At the time, I thought Renata was town. This was going to be my final thought of the game as I'm being lynched. Then Newyn jumps on.

    I still think Al Sips wagon was full of townies but I can be wrong about 5/5.

    Quote Originally Posted by atheotes View Post
    you should have stayed
    anyways, i think al sips is scum with pizza
    I didn't like this comment and it contributed to me opening the day on atheotes.

    But there's seemingly no one alive willing to lynch atheotes. As such, town only wins if I'm wrong. By default, I'm going with that. Who does that leave?

    Novice dies, who is not getting votes yet wasn't voting correctly. If I only need to lynch pizza and I don't necessarily need novice's vote to do it, this is who I kill. It doesn't weaken my position at all and leaves more lynchable people alive.

    Renata opens today with a vote on me, says Newyn is another option. Monty opens with vote on khaan, is willing to vote me but not his accuser Barto, and El Barto opens with vote on Monty, says Newyn is scum. Each of the three voting divided. But when push comes to shove, El Barto won't actually lynch Monty. Renata won't actually lynch Newyn. Barto won't actually lynch Newyn.

    The one person they are willing to lynch is the claimed vigilante, but not the no-reason-claimed bulletproof. Nor their own suspects even with my help.

    How it happened.wall of text
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  7. #1177
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Newyn View Post
    If you claimed 1 shot doc, that would be playing WIFOM with scum. Claiming 1 shot BP just means wolves can pretend you don't exist if you're town and gives you an excuse for why you're never killed if you're scum.
    You're doing the same thing as Pizza. It's not a generic one-shot bulletproof. I never said it was. I only get one try to use it and if I use it and am not hit that night, it's wasted. That means it's up to me not only to get myself shot at, I also have to ensure I'm shot at on the right night.

    I don't think this is an accident. This is a deliberate misinterpretation of the power I was given in order to make me look as bad as possible.

  8. #1178
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    I don't think this is an accident. This is a deliberate misinterpretation of the power I was given in order to make me look as bad as possible.
    Which they would do, you know, if they were mafia, which, you know, they are.
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
    Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
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  9. #1179
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Newyn View Post
    I know I am, you're free to think what you want but that doesn't change my role and what I know.
    What role? Please, clueless vanilla townie is my shtick, exasperated possibly 1-off bulletproof is Renata, annoying wannabe-vigilante is askthemafiaguy's, and yours? Don't make me laugh.
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
    Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
    I see I've been sigged yet again -Askthepizzaguy, 02/08/2012
    Hindsight is 20/20 Askthepizzaguy, 10/07/2013

  10. #1180
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    And I'm going to ignore pizza's wall of text. He's scum, end of story.
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
    Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
    I see I've been sigged yet again -Askthepizzaguy, 02/08/2012
    Hindsight is 20/20 Askthepizzaguy, 10/07/2013

  11. #1181
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    If that's wrong someone can give me an alternate explanation.

    I will hear it out provided they are (a) willing to lynch their own suspects (b) they have more than one suspect, or their one suspect's name isn't pizza-related.
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  12. #1182
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    Which they would do, you know, if they were mafia, which, you know, they are.
    And the thing is I'd clarify at this point whether I still have it or not if someone I think is townie asked, if they thought that benefitted. So far no one has.

  13. #1183
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    If that's wrong someone can give me an alternate explanation.

    I will hear it out provided they are (a) willing to lynch their own suspects (b) they have more than one suspect, or their one suspect's name isn't pizza-related.
    Fine.
    Suspects: person with ‘Know the Dark Side’ as their usertitle-Newyn-Monty. I am willing to lynch them that's why I have only voted them this phase. Happy? Now be quiet and wait for you lynch, doughie.
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
    Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
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  14. #1184
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    And I'm going to ignore pizza's wall of text. He's scum, end of story.
    Ah, but Monty is also scum, end of story, but you won't lynch him. Isn't that so?
    #Winstontoostrong
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  15. #1185

    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    We know Al Sips is town, and so would the scum. Which, again, means they had no reason to save Pizza.

    Al Sips wagon existed because Pizza pushed it. Without Pizza, he would not have been a major suspect - but again, enough to get in the way of your lynch or atheotes lynch if that's where scum is.

    Atheotes scum has no reason for it, nor Monty scum nor Renata scum nor Barto scum nor Bsmith scum nor you as scum. Only Khaan as scum might want it, and even then it would be a rather large risk.
    The opportunity to push for another town member isn't reason enough to give the appearance of trying to save Pizza?
    I'm not sure how your mind works but if Al Sip's main (and in your opinion only) accuser died and flipped town, I'd certainly be taking a serious look at him again even if I had previously read him as town.

  16. #1186
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    Fine.
    Suspects: person with ‘Know the Dark Side’ as their usertitle-Newyn-Monty. I am willing to lynch them that's why I have only voted them this phase. Happy? Now be quiet and wait for you lynch, doughie.
    Are you sure you don't want me to spew more information before I flip scum? I usually don't tell my scum suspects to be quiet.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  17. #1187
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    And the thing is I'd clarify at this point whether I still have it or not if someone I think is townie asked, if they thought that benefitted. So far no one has.
    Why would that benefit us, unless you still had it, which may or may not be true? If that Merlot in front of you helps, so be it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Ah, but Monty is also scum, end of story, but you won't lynch him. Isn't that so?
    I've already said you're not going to make me split the waggons, atpg.
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
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  18. #1188
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Also for someone who finds Monty and Newyn both scum, you seem to be impressively invested in asking them questions or pressing them harder.

    Hiding behind the fact that you can only vote one person at a time?

    I move my vote around and other people don't stop existing when I'm voting for someone else, case in point.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  19. #1189
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Are you sure you don't want me to spew more misinformation before I flip scum? I usually don't tell my scum suspects to be quiet.
    FTFY.
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
    Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
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  20. #1190

    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    You're doing the same thing as Pizza. It's not a generic one-shot bulletproof. I never said it was. I only get one try to use it and if I use it and am not hit that night, it's wasted. That means it's up to me not only to get myself shot at, I also have to ensure I'm shot at on the right night.

    I don't think this is an accident. This is a deliberate misinterpretation of the power I was given in order to make me look as bad as possible.
    No, I'm not misinterpreting anything like you're claiming. Claiming a 1 shot bulletproof means wolves probably just ignore you for the kill and go on their merry way. It benefits wolves by telling them where not to shoot, that does not really help town. It's not about the specifics of your bp, it's about how useful your claim is in helping town and how useful it'd be if you're actually scum.

    If you wanted to WIFOM the wolves, you'd have claimed 1 shot doc, plain and simple.

  21. #1191
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    If you're trying to draw the kill to you as one would with a bulletproof power, one shot doctor does seem to be one of the top ideas.

    One shot bulletproof that has to be activated and vanishes even if it doesn't work is an impressively bad power. I believe you can be bulletproof, I think you claimed it because you thought I was the vigilante. Ergo, your suspicion on me yesterday, and your repeated assertions that you were distraught over Zack's death specifically.

    Gives you cover for accusing anyone who claims that shot.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  22. #1192
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    You did in fact also repeatedly prompt me to admit being the vigilante. You made the call near the start of the round and repeated it later. I only acquiesced to your demand because I thought you were a townie. Otherwise with no more shots (something you couldn't have known!) it's pointless to claim anyway, and with additional shots, it's terribad to claim.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  23. #1193
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Claim bp under no pressure is never a townie tactic, and asking the vigilante to claim when there are no dead scums and therefore they can possibly roleblock or bus drive or bulletproof someone to prevent it from being effective, is unwise. I think the only reason I didn't get pushed that round by Renata for claiming vig is because of where I was voting. As long as I lynched additional townies, she was fine with any outcome.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  24. #1194

    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    The opportunity to push for another town member isn't reason enough to give the appearance of trying to save Pizza?
    I'm not sure how your mind works but if Al Sip's main (and in your opinion only) accuser died and flipped town, I'd certainly be taking a serious look at him again even if I had previously read him as town.
    In other words, they benefit more from not lifting a finger? That's what I said multiple times. Do you even know what you're trying to argue at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Newyn View Post
    No, I'm not misinterpreting anything like you're claiming. Claiming a 1 shot bulletproof means wolves probably just ignore you for the kill and go on their merry way. It benefits wolves by telling them where not to shoot, that does not really help town. It's not about the specifics of your bp, it's about how useful your claim is in helping town and how useful it'd be if you're actually scum.

    If you wanted to WIFOM the wolves, you'd have claimed 1 shot doc, plain and simple.
    This is also nonsense. Claiming one-shot doc doesn't impact strategy at all unless it's to kill Renata specifically. At least Pizza's nonsense has a veneer of logic to it.
    Vitiate Man.

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  25. #1195
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    What would you say is the most logical thing I've said so far?
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  26. #1196

    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    What would you say is the most logical thing I've said so far?
    Too many posts.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  27. #1197
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Vote: Renata
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  28. #1198
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by seireikhaan View Post
    Vote: Renata
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
    Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
    I see I've been sigged yet again -Askthepizzaguy, 02/08/2012
    Hindsight is 20/20 Askthepizzaguy, 10/07/2013

  29. #1199
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    Actually, is better than for that post. But both apply.
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
    Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
    I see I've been sigged yet again -Askthepizzaguy, 02/08/2012
    Hindsight is 20/20 Askthepizzaguy, 10/07/2013

  30. #1200
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Visor's Small Mafia Game [In Play]

    You missed the most appropriate one:

    It's 4am my time. If I want anyone to actually read what I said, I need to shut up and walk away now. It's on this page, scroll up.
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

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