Representative Democracy [Concluded]

[Renata]

Vote: Mutiny

Win, but I'm way too much of a teacher's pet to support you in this GH.

[Cass_]

He can do what he wants

It was a suggestion jeez

<3 and :P

Connective suggestions/analyses are awesome and insightful as to possibilities, but they don't really give me your opinion/require you to give an actual opinion on a particular player's alignment at the time.

This approach is either:

Towny cos you're trying to see how everything may fit (but it's dangerous cos lol connective-tinfoil-ahead-of-flips-and-time(I-so-hate-that-I-always-fall-into-this-trap-as-well); or

Scummy cos it helps make it look like you're working without pinning you down to a connection between you and said player at a given time.

At this point I have no idea which. Your ISO is huge and scary and full of things like that, silly pokester-always-poking-maybe-never-pushing.

If you're a wolf I want to catch you. If you're Villager I want to have those AHA! moments that you're Town.

I don't care if you hunt for Villagers more, I know that's your style. Just read his ISO and tell me if you'd want him in your Town core, or if he's someone you're not comfortable with and are leaving outside.

Mont/other players in contention could end up flipping this phase.

Unless I have your actual read of them on record I can't judge your stance of them retrospectively.

Even if you can't make a decision on a player's whole alignment, give me post-specific alignment reads. "This post Towny because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...." "This post Scummy because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...."

Pretty please.

[Monstrdude]

<3 and :P

Connective suggestions/analyses are awesome and insightful as to possibilities, but they don't really give me your opinion/require you to give an actual opinion on a particular player's alignment at the time.

This approach is either:

Towny cos you're trying to see how everything may fit (but it's dangerous cos lol connective-tinfoil-ahead-of-flips-and-time(I-so-hate-that-I-always-fall-into-this-trap-as-well); or

Scummy cos it helps make it look like you're working without pinning you down to a connection between you and said player at a given time.

At this point I have no idea which. Your ISO is huge and scary and full of things like that, silly pokester-always-poking-maybe-never-pushing.

If you're a wolf I want to catch you. If you're Villager I want to have those AHA! moments that you're Town.

I don't care if you hunt for Villagers more, I know that's your style. Just read his ISO and tell me if you'd want him in your Town core, or if he's someone you're not comfortable with and are leaving outside.

Mont/other players in contention could end up flipping this phase.

Unless I have your actual read of them on record I can't judge your stance of them retrospectively.

Even if you can't make a decision on a player's whole alignment, give me post-specific alignment reads. "This post Towny because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...." "This post Scummy because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...."

Pretty please.

I've done that for several players

For claiming to iso me that's a big oversight

[Montmorency]

Mont/other players in contention could end up flipping this phase.

Nooo

Renata, most of your ISO links are broken btw.

[Renata]

Is that directed to me, or is it backhanded?

Directed at you. I don't know if you glossing over your own questioning of my vote on choxorn is something a wolf is more likely to do or not, to be honest -- the motive is obvious; the benefit if caught at it is not -- but it offends my sense of 'all cards on the table' townieness.

[Monstrdude]

Also thats a huge post to just tell me to iso Monty

Is it really necessary to use all those words to say you don't like that I have a player in the null category and then throw baseless shade at me?

[Renata]

Nooo

Renata, most of your ISO links are broken btw.

Huh. Maybe MU doesn't support that? At any rate, all games are very recent and here/MU (under custom games), so easy to find.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Huh. Maybe MU doesn't support that? At any rate, all games are very recent and here/MU (under custom games), so easy to find.

The .Org's software won't link you to past searches, you have to do the searching yourself.

[Montmorency]

Unless I have your actual read of them on record I can't judge your stance of them retrospectively.

Even if you can't make a decision on a player's whole alignment, give me post-specific alignment reads. "This post Towny because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...." "This post Scummy because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...."

I am authorizing partial release of my notes pursuant to this query.

Just for D2, mind you.

Town: Monstr calls Monty always villa; Monstr says Visor/Winston never w/w; Monstr kinda think El Barto villager; Monstr likes dicetosser; Monstr leans Barto; Monstr leans Al Sips; Monstr kind think Cuth town;

Scum: Monstr kinda suspect Cuth; Monstr suspects Winston; Monstr thinks there is low-posting deepwolf; Monstr leans on GH; Monstr down on Zack;

[Monstrdude]

So Cass are you actually gonna read any of my other games or were you just asking to ask and then planning on scumreading me anyway?

Because if you're a wolf you're going to die this way jsyk

[Montmorency]

Directed at you. I don't know if you glossing over your own questioning of my vote on choxorn is something a wolf is more likely to do or not, to be honest -- the motive is obvious; the benefit if caught at it is not -- but it offends my sense of 'all cards on the table' townieness.

Meh

[Monstrdude]

I am authorizing partial release of my notes pursuant to this query.

Just for D2, mind you.

Town: Monstr calls Monty always villa; Monstr says Visor/Winston never w/w; Monstr kinda think El Barto villager; Monstr likes dicetosser; Monstr leans Barto; Monstr leans Al Sips; Monstr kind think Cuth town;

Scum: Monstr kinda suspect Cuth; Monstr suspects Winston; Monstr thinks there is low-posting deepwolf; Monstr leans on GH; Monstr down on Zack;

SEE LOOK AT ALL THE THINGS I'VE THOUGHT

And she says I don't think things

I'll show you thanking

[Montmorency]

I'll show you thanking

You're going to kill me last.

[Cuthillius]

Cuth, of your whole push on Sooh that I saw, this is the part I really have trouble seeing fit in a possi-Towny mindset.

I don't agree with pushing claimed PRs D1, but if you had a really strong feeling she was Scum, Ok.

BUT then why only aim for her lynch D1? Why not tunnel her to death? Explain the logic/what you were thinking/what would have changed for you if she'd survived?

becauuuseee flips are flips and heck if i know what tomorrow's going to be like

from my pov there, she was potentially trying to bait me into a mini-tunnel to distract me

but basically because reevaluations happen

if she didn't get lynched, she could either die or survive, right

what if two townies died that wouldn't make sense with town sooh? scum

what if a scum and townie die that make total sense with scum

but what if the people die point away from sooh

it's d1, basically

idk

[Monstrdude]

You're going to kill me last.

Only if you're a wolf

I go back and forth depending on my opinion of visor's alignment which changes by the second, but I want to say through the combination of charts, a certain snarky attitude that I generally equate with villageriness, a way of going about things that seems to question the consensus and that you called me a villager I'm gonna stick with my guns from early today and call you a villager still

[Montmorency]

she was potentially trying to bait me into a mini-tunnel to distract me

What???

[Cuthillius]

Cuth, why ask people to consolidate on him, but not Chox, who was in a similar position?

At the time you posted this, where were you leaning with Barto and where are you at with him now?

mostly i was forgetting the whole only reps vote and that the common vote is meh

that was right after i looked at the vote compilation post and saw that sooh and el barto were tied on top

i was trying to see what people thought of el barto and why

hadn't been following why he had that many votes and wanted to know

--

pretty much the same, neutralish, but he's a little bit lower or higher, not quite sure which, for his scum claim post

[Cuthillius]

All of you should come hang out at vgf mafia or vice versa because over there we go like 50 posts per player per game so even a large game would be kinda low volume (I am ldo the exception)

that's a lot for where i'm from

[Cuthillius]

though I already pointed this out to him when he was around and got no reply

would ya please quit doing that already

i am replying to everything i see that's productive, i might have missed it

[Monstrdude]

Only if you're a wolf

I go back and forth depending on my opinion of visor's alignment which changes by the second, but I want to say through the combination of charts, a certain snarky attitude that I generally equate with villageriness, a way of going about things that seems to question the consensus and that you called me a villager I'm gonna stick with my guns from early today and call you a villager still

There Cass

I MADE A READ

If that's not good enough for you then maybe you're just hungry idk

I mean seriously though the whole spiel about forcing me to make a read on Monty so you can "hold me accountable for it later because it's on the record" is Not A Good Look (tm), especially when you consider that you just asked me for links to games and I didn't give you INSTANT CLICKS, but I spoonfed you the games and you brushed it off. I suggest you reevaluate if you are still scumreading me. Or if you're a wolf you can keep trying and eventually get murdered when I finally go off
In the meantime I will continue to do what I've done all game, despite that you seem to want to argue that I haven't been doing these things

[Cass_]

Ooh, homework! @Cass_

Not sure what you plan to do with all of this, but gl!

Thanks.

Plan is I'll use these to do what I did with Chox/what I do when I'm trying to solidify my final reads.

Compare current game and previous styles. Look for differences/similarities in play that stand out as alignment-related. See if that confirms my gut read/what I pick up on here.

(Sometimes) works for me.

Eg. Deciding between Chox/Barto (Cuth is right, I was never going to vote for him based on what we had D1)

FTR Barto not out of the woods for me, he's still very possi-scum, but he had more possi-possi-Town redemption than Chox, who was playing complete opposite to how he played as Town in Rappers and the recent Small Mafia game here.

[Montmorency]

There Cass

I MADE A READ

If that's not good enough for you then maybe you're just hungry idk

I mean seriously though the whole spiel about forcing me to make a read on Monty so you can "hold me accountable for it later because it's on the record" is Not A Good Look (tm), especially when you consider that you just asked me for links to games and I didn't give you INSTANT CLICKS, but I spoonfed you the games and you brushed it off. I suggest you reevaluate if you are still scumreading me. Or if you're a wolf you can keep trying and eventually get murdered when I finally go off
In the meantime I will continue to do what I've done all game, despite that you seem to want to argue that I haven't been doing these things

Don't turn into Zack.

Or if you're a wolf you can keep trying and eventually get murdered when I finally go off

Oh god is that a claim?

[Cuthillius]

This appears to be the CONSENSUS READS LIST and not my own:

Cleared by D1
Cass
Dp101
Renata
atheotes

Good vibes
Monstrbro
Winston
Visor
Jabbz

Slightly less good vibes
Zack
Schema
dicetosser

Monty
Monty

Low posters
Csargo
Al Sipsclar
Riedquat
BSmith

Lynchbait
El Barto
GH
Cuthilius

Let's assume four scum. I think, contrary to popular belief, we're going to find at least one in some of the upper categories. Not the topmost obviously, unless there was a serious error in thought during the late stages of D1, but I'm guessing 1-2 in the combined "vibes" categories plus Monty, 1 in the low posters, and 1 in the lynchbait. The reason for this is simple: it's never that easy, and the consensus is never 100% accurate.

If the situation does look to be as rosy for town as it appears, then I'd pin down Schema as a possible maf that's higher up the reads list. Her(?) D2 has shown some warning signs:



This was never properly explained and Schema instead in future posts went with the handwave defenses of "for now" and "I have reasons".

There is a decent amount of "I'm not scum partners with Cuth" and attacks on Cuth, which could strike me as a maf doing a partial deflection because she perceives the town as attacking the right target but for the wrong reasons. I don't think it's likely that Schema and Cuth are m/m but if Cuth is the lynch and flips town... well.



Tone feels somewhat off for me (don't like the first paragraph/sentence especially) but this could just be a lack of familiarity with her meta.

Bottom line is though that if the PoE is working but isn't 100% I'm probably shooting Schema.

~~~~~~~~~~

This is a little unorthodox, but I would also not complain if one of the extremely high posters was lynched today (I guess Cuth would count for this as well) just to allow the thread to breathe a bit and see if it makes things any more appealing for the low posters to offer their thoughts without them. If they start being able to contribute, great. If not, we should probably start sharpening our scythes or otherwise it will be as Monstrbro said in 1773.

i feel like this is exactly scum-aligned

he throws a suspicion grenade into the top towns, where, if we're correct, ~all (save maybe one) of the scums are near the bottom

this is pro-scum, and something the scum team literally has to do to win (and yes, can be good for town but i don't think it is and that's not the viewpoint i'm trying to show in this post so meh)

chooses schema for heaven knows what reason, apart from tone being off and tiny weird things; i feel like i could find more to complain about than that in several/all of the people in her range of clearedness

and then suggests going after high posters, in order to clear off the thread

right now i'm fairly convinced all of the high posters are town

and i don't think it's a stretch to say that all of them save me are pretty towny

if the scums are in the pool we're looking at, they will also need to do this

to gain any sort of control/foothold

the less thread activity from town the better

iunno

[Monstrdude]

Don't turn into Zack.



Oh god is that a claim?

Why would it be?

[Montmorency]

Why would it be?

A wolf will die when you go off?

[Monstrdude]

A wolf will die when you go off?

When I get mad about it and decide to stop giving her the "I think you're town" benefit of the doubt

[Cuthillius]

So let's say my "consensus PoE isn't correct, jump around the categories" theory wins the day. Shot in the dark, I need to pick out four scum right now, in order:

Cuthilius - wait for flip
> if town, Schema
> if scum, Jabbz
Riedquat, for the hell of it
Jabbs if not already shot, Barto if Jabbz isn't an option

And then Askthepizzaguy to be totally safe.

but this is awful, because you're going up and lynching a town from the higher list

my goodness, make a poe of some sort that makes sense

WHY would you just suddenly go up the ladder and start hunting for a medium-depth town before you've just lynched from the bottom up and gotten rid of the other how many scum

this makes no sense

it also allows for gh/jabbz being scum together, because if scum he knows i don't flip there

that is an awful poe though

i can't reconcile it with what i see and know, and it looks absolutely desperate

look there could be a scum higher up

the way to do that is not to start lynching all the higher ups in a random fashion until we get the right one

that's pretty obvious

[GeneralHankerchief]

but this is awful, because you're going up and lynching a town from the higher list

my goodness, make a poe of some sort that makes sense

WHY would you just suddenly go up the ladder and start hunting for a medium-depth town before you've just lynched from the bottom up and gotten rid of the other how many scum

this makes no sense

it also allows for gh/jabbz being scum together, because if scum he knows i don't flip there

that is an awful poe though

i can't reconcile it with what i see and know, and it looks absolutely desperate

look there could be a scum higher up

the way to do that is not to start lynching all the higher ups in a random fashion until we get the right one

that's pretty obvious

Because my personal PoE doesn't match the town's?

[Montmorency]

Cuth, any claims against you aren't a lolrandom vote, much less than "working up" from low posters.

Smells of potential distancing.

[Cuthillius]

What???

meh

my suspect is asking me are you going to tunnel me all game??

there are only so many reasons she would say that, and that is one of them

it is not major, but it is a thought