Germany gazing into the abyss (federal elections)

[Husar]

So upcoming Sunday, Germany, country where the sun always goes down, will have its federal elections, where Angela Merkel is challenged by...absolutely noone.

The last polls I saw had her party at 37% of the vote, followed by the SPD at a mere 20%.

Running behind them are the:

AfD at 12%
FDP at 9.5%
Die Linke at 9%
and the Greens at I forgot percent (I think around 7%).

Here's a nice video where a friendly American explains some differences to the US election and some other basics about our election:


If you're somewhat informed, you may see several things:

1. The refugee crisis has not hurt Merkel AT ALL. In fact she is even stronger now relative to the other parties. It's as though the AfD (anti-immigrants) drew all of its strength from her political opponents (and current allies in government, the SPD) and weakened them a lot. This is why she is also known as the Teflon-chancellor, none of the criticism seems to stick on her.

2. A whole lot of people seem to be content with current politics despite the seemingly high criticism. The people who are not seem to seek the solution on the right side of the political spectrum. Both the AfD and the FDP (between democrats and libertarians in the US) gained a lot of votes.

3. Social justice is overrated, has been made unbelievable or is not really wanted, let's indulge in more neoliberal corporatism instead. Or maybe it's just that the Left suck up to Russia too much or that they're called populists similar to Sanders in the US. The SPD is basically seen as having betrayed its voters in recent years/decades by cutting social programs etc. The AfD only pretends to be social but actually seems to be pro-corporate, much like their heroes from the thirties.

4. Perceptions and memories seem really weird, hypocrisy and strangeness is everywhere. The AfD is German-national and pro-family (anti-homosexual) and their candidate for chancellor is an attractive woman who lives with her partner, another woman, in Switzerland. Merkel failed terribly to address the Diesel scandal, her incompetent minister arranged for corporations to introduce some half-baked improvements to Diesel cars and even the corporatist FDP leader claims the corporations should have paid much more and potentially not even made a profit for a while to pay for fixing the cars properly. The Greens are in control of the state that owns large parts of VW and the state's prime minister, a Green party guy, was defending VW. *insert facepalm* Obviously all the parties have flexible morals when it comes to money and winning elections. Only Merkel will win anyway thanks to her teflon abilities.
And the Left? They hate Capitalism and the US so much that they would rather cuddle with Putin (the AfD also believes we should cuddle more with him btw.). While I personally think they have some good points on social justice and stopping arms exports that only facilitate more wars in third world countries, they also have their share of annoying ideas, oh and they are also not fond of the EU.
And the Greens? A recent study found their voters want all kinds of change, but they only want other people to change and not change themselves, and they're mostly above average wage earners, too.

Needless to say that I feel that despite the relatively large number of parties, I feel it's hard to find one that actually somewhat represents me. I guess I will go with more social justice though, even though it seems relatively fruitless with the CDU having almost twice the percentage of votes as the runner up. The two possible coalitions at the moment are CDU + SPD as it currently is or CDU + FDP + Greens, which would mean more neoliberalism and pro-corporate politics most likely.

Here's also our age structure, evil people may draw their conclusions: http://www.indexmundi.com/germany/age_structure.html

What I really don't get either is how small business owners continue to vote for liberal parties promising lower taxes when these measures only ever help the big corporations that are the ones suffocating the small businesses (economies of scale etc.) in the first place? They place all the blame on the government suffocating them with taxes and then vote for the parties that historically only lower the taxes for big business regardless of their promises. It's not even surprising considering the biggest donors to political parties are rich people and corporations, as can be seen here(all donations over 50k€, since those have to be made public): https://www.bundestag.de/parlament/p...-inhalt/488236

What's also "funny" on that list is that the Danish culture ministerium is giving money to a very small minority party in northern Germany. I guess if V. Putin were on that list giving money to The Left and the AfD, there'd be a poopstorm all over the internet, but I didn't even know about this until I checked the list yesterday. I know it's small and seemingly insignificant, but it's a foreign government funding/influencing politics here.

Eh, I'm done, opinions and apologies welcome.

[Gilrandir]

Eh, I'm done, opinions and apologies welcome.

No, you are not. You will be when the sun goes down on Sunday. And who will you vote for (if such direct questions are allowed)?

[Husar]

No, you are not. You will be when the sun goes down on Sunday. And who will you vote for (if such direct questions are allowed)?

I meant that I was done bringing up somewhat random points about our politics.
Of course it is allowed to ask who I will vote for, it's just not allowed to force me to provide an answer.

I forgot to mention that some say an unusually large amount of voters are still undecided.

For myself, I think it's a mix of smallest evil, preferences, general directions and voting tactics and then I'm "left" with...The Left.
They're not perfect, but the only ones with a somewhat believable socialist program that doesn't rely on more privatization and other evils that have increased wealth and income inequality for the past few decades.

[Kralizec]

I meant that I was done bringing up somewhat random points about our politics.
Of course it is allowed to ask who I will vote for, it's just not allowed to force me to provide an answer.

I forgot to mention that some say an unusually large amount of voters are still undecided.

For myself, I think it's a mix of smallest evil, preferences, general directions and voting tactics and then I'm "left" with...The Left.
They're not perfect, but the only ones with a somewhat believable socialist program that doesn't rely on more privatization and other evils that have increased wealth and income inequality for the past few decades.

I don't know. I'm obviously not a German (I actually like Sigmar Gabriel) but I would personally never vote for a party that so closely associates itself with the old DDR. These guys walked out of parliament because the former president (a noted DDR dissident and critic) was going to give a speech, and a large chunk of the members from the East were actual Stasi informers at one point in their life.

I know that the DDR isn't controversial for many people who actually lived in it and I don't begrudge them their right to have themselves represented, but I certainly would never join them

[Husar]

I don't know. I'm obviously not a German (I actually like Sigmar Gabriel) but I would personally never vote for a party that so closely associates itself with the old DDR. These guys walked out of parliament because the former president (a noted DDR dissident and critic) was going to give a speech, and a large chunk of the members from the East were actual Stasi informers at one point in their life.

I know that the DDR isn't controversial for many people who actually lived in it and I don't begrudge them their right to have themselves represented, but I certainly would never join them

Well, they're only half a former DDR party, the other half was a new party (forgot the name) that merged with them into the left. I can't find the incident right now, but from what I read they blamed Gauck for having been too friendly with the DDR, not for being too critical. Or maybe that was just the side of their party that's less crazy. It is my impression that the party has largely moved on or at least enough that I'd rather vote for them than any of the other crazies. It's not a love at first sight, more like the lesser evil. Or call it a tactical choice. There's a small chance that I would try the SPD, but as I said they lost a lot of trustworthiness. Every other major party is basically on the more capitalism hypetrain and will basically end up lowering taxes for some while raising the costs of everything people need. Obviously this tends to hit those the most, who earn so little that they barely pay any taxes anyway. How that could be a more moral choice I do not see.

Ideally I would like a party that is pro-EU (in general, not necessarily exactly the way it works now), aligns with our Western allies mostly, but is open to other countries, supports a return to a more social form of capitalism, stops and perhaps reverts some aspects of privatization of basic commodities, supports more market transparency, better education, higher infrastructure investments and measures to stop the wealth gap from growing and poverty from increasing. I could to some degree support a later retirement age and other things to make up for the costs. In a very ideal case, the party would also have a decent vision for how to solve the issues of growing mechanization and replacement of workers with capital/machines. While not quite there (mass replacement) yet, I can see us reacting to that trend way too late.

[Montmorency]

Some say Germany has once again forgotten how to be democratic under Merkelreich, but on the other hand she's more left-wing than most possible German governments.

The prophecy declares that if she can outlast Putin in office Germany absorbs Russia.

What's also "funny" on that list is that the Danish culture ministerium is giving money to a very small minority party in northern Germany. I guess if V. Putin were on that list giving money to The Left and the AfD, there'd be a poopstorm all over the internet, but I didn't even know about this until I checked the list yesterday. I know it's small and seemingly insignificant, but it's a foreign government funding/influencing politics here.

Isn't that about Denmark and Schleswig-Holstein wanting more Danish-cultural education because they're still sore over annexation?

[Husar]

Some say Germany has once again forgotten how to be democratic under Merkelreich, but on the other hand she's more left-wing than most possible German governments.

Some say she moved left to destroy the SPD. The problem is that leaves no big party that has actual social democratic agenda since the SPD seemingly abandoned theirs when they enacted the Hartz IV reforms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartz_concept). Ever since the SPD allied with Merkel, they lost even more popularity. Martin Schulz is trying to reform this, or seemingly trying, but people, including myself, are not sure he can be trusted it seems. There's a chance that I will support him and the SPD after all, but voting for the left might show them that more social democracy is really wanted. The Left would also likely have to become an ally if they even get a chance to beat the CDU.

On a sidenote, I edited my last post with what I would like to see in a party. The SPD would have a lot of that if they didn't happen to appear like they were just talking about social justice only to betray it once elected.

The prophecy declares that if she can outlast Putin in office Germany absorbs Russia.

Isn't that about Denmark and Schleswig-Holstein wanting more Danish-cultural education because they're still sore over annexation?

I really have no idea what that is about, it's a somewhat more local issue but also an oddity I didn't want to leave out in case anyone would actually look at the list of donations and wonder why there are strange Danish words in between all the strange German ones. I would actually hope our countries are friendly now and that the EU superstate would end all border quibbles anyway before some multinational tobacco cartel forces us all to give our babies cigarettes for breakfast.

[Fragony]

Rather boring, going to be that plumb childless muti anyway, dispite her disastrous birdcall I wonder how AfD wil do after the rather odd things they recently said, not the club I hoped they would be.

[Gilrandir]

The prophecy declares that if she can outlast Putin in office Germany absorbs Russia.

... only to be later absorbed by North Korea.

[rory_20_uk]

Most of us are hanging on to Merkel as a symbol of sane, stable leadership. Please, don't take Merkel from me...

[Husar]

Most of us are hanging on to Merkel as a symbol of sane, stable leadership. Please, don't take Merkel from me...

Your opinion might matter if it wasn't for Brexit...

[Greyblades]

Most of us are hanging on to Merkel as a symbol of sane, stable leadership. Please, don't take Merkel from me...

Merkel a symbol of sane and stable leadership to you?

Christ you guys have really gone off the deep end since my hiatus

[Husar]

Merkel a symbol of sane and stable leadership to you?

Christ you guys have really gone off the deep end since my hiatus

That's what she is though, to everyone who isn't scared of the black man.

And I'm pretty sure it's just you being so high now that makes it seem like we fell down the deep end...matter of perspective...

[Fragony]

That's what she is though, to everyone who isn't scared of the black man.

Oh please... that spell has a negative perk youknow, it gets less powerfull every time when cast against realismus

[Husar]

Oh please... that spell has a negative perk youknow, it gets less powerfull every time when cast against realismus

People inside the bubble of the realismus spell like to think so, that doesn't make it true however. Could just be the negative side effects of that spell bubble they're in.

[Greyblades]

And you think I am the high one here?

That's what she is though, to everyone who isn't scared of the black man.

And I'm pretty sure it's just you being so high now that makes it seem like we fell down the deep end...matter of perspective...

Husar in your perspective the americans are run by hitler 2.821.d and the british are 37% brain dead. I am not even sure the degree at which I am exagerrating there, but when the greatest comparitors are abject failures the medocre looks masterful and to see it this way is typical of a sound human mind.

However to think the woman, that has fostered the most destructive mass migration into europe since the thirteenth century ,can be graded as highly as merely medeocre is not sound.

[Fragony]

People inside the bubble of the realismus spell like to think so, that doesn't make it true however. Could just be the negative side effects of that spell bubble they're in.

Awwwww common, everybody know Merkel's little children cause major problems, ask your own police how things work in the real world

[Husar]

Husar in your perspective the americans are run by hitler 2.821.d and the british are 37% brain dead. I am not even sure the degree at which I am exagerrating there, but when the greatest comparitors are abject failures the medocre looks masterful and to see it this way is typical of a sound human mind.

However to think the woman, that has fostered the most destructive mass migration into europe since the thirteenth century ,can be graded as highly as merely medeocre is not sound.

Outside of alt-right bubbles, there was no "most destructive mass migration". And if the rest of that seriously represents how you interprete my opinion as given in this very thread (or even just what rory said), then you may need to come down from that high to regain a working reading comprehension. In my world, sane and stable does not equal masterful in any way.

What you and Fragony may want to ask yourselves, is why Merkel's CDU is now seen as the go-to party for internal security when they were the ones who caused the problems by lowering police budgets and supposedly also by letting all those people in.

[Fragony]

Damage has already been done and there is no alternative except the AfD who has become shady, that doesn't mean the Gernans are appy with her, big dispite

[Montmorency]

Damage has already been done and there is no alternative except the AfD who has become shady, that doesn't mean the Gernans are appy with her, big dispite

What do you mean by "shady"?

@Husar English version of this por favor?

[Husar]

@Husar English version of this por favor?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_the_Wise

Apparently this theatric version doesn't end well though, noone listens to reason and they all shout "God is great!" at the end. Don't think I can find a local newspaper article in English if that is what you're after.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Skin color is a silly reason to fear anybody.

Are their concerns with assimilation of refugees and immigrants? Cultural values that clash and which may tend to radicalize a higher percentage of these immigrants than from previous immigrant groups? Certainly.

Even so, the bulk of those immigrating or living as refugees are more or less decent people just trying to better their lot in life. You need to deal with the problem ones without unfairly stereotyping the group at large.

To give Merkel a dash of credit, Germany has allowed in more refugees per capita than many other polities in Europe, while having no more -- and arguably compared to France and Sweden notably less -- of the problems associated with these groups than the rest in the EU.

[Montmorency]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_the_Wise

Apparently this theatric version doesn't end well though, noone listens to reason and they all shout "God is great!" at the end. Don't think I can find a local newspaper article in English if that is what you're after.

I read the original play in English translation, I meant this new version - English text or video with subtitles. Probably not to be found.

To give Merkel a dash of credit, Germany has allowed in more refugees per capita than many other polities in Europe, while having no more -- and arguably compared to France and Sweden notably less -- of the problems associated with these groups than the rest in the EU.

The recent wave of refugees and attendant difficulties is notably separate from any problems Germany and France and have had with long-established Turkish or North African demographics, respectively.

The most serious impediments to cultural harmony in Europe today are largely a factor of nativist right-wing hostility and intransigence. One precondition to flourishing is the rejection of both the European and Muslim reactionary elements.

It's sad that Eastern Europeans are among the worst offenders, because with their commitment their countries' depopulated rural zones could be revitalized through refugee resettlement and investment.

If you want another moonbat lefty humanist work of theater, set a play where Syrians arrive in the Bulgarian mountains, a lonely babushka finds meaning in her life by becoming engaged in the upbringing of the newcomers' children, everyone learns the value of community, everyone is sad when the seniors pass away, but are left optimistic with an eye to the future. THE END

[Fragony]

What do you mean by "shady"?

They kinda freak me out since Frauke left, the reliance on bringing up the nazi-past and the constant framing of people who have very good reasons to be against mass-immigration is backfiring, a lot of Germans had enough of of that, a bit too much it seems at least

[Viking]

The most serious impediments to cultural harmony in Europe today are largely a factor of nativist right-wing hostility and intransigence. One precondition to flourishing is the rejection of both the European and Muslim reactionary elements.

No, the problems happen when you have large amounts of working-class immigrants of certain origins concentrating in specific places. It is the common denominator of France and Sweden, and is an outcome that becomes more probable the higher the relevant immigration rates are - naturally.

[Fragony]

What rightwing-hostility by the way? Violence is exclusive to the black hoodies, anti-facists lol@that

Ah well, it's good for the economy, organs got a lot cheaper

[Husar]

What rightwing-hostility by the way? Violence is exclusive to the black hoodies, anti-facists lol@that

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6763506.html

http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/hetzja...icle_id=342199



http://www.fluchschrift.net/archiv/swansea.htm

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...in-hate-crime/

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/01/...people-travel/

https://www.thelocal.de/20160111/rac...ion-in-cologne

[Fragony]

That's disgusting but Ii can totally understand that people don'twant them near them, immigrant criime, especially sexual, is swept under the rug by the socalled institutionally racist police, that is a wellknown practise. These few racist attacks are incidents before becommig a trend, a shame they happen. Sexual violence is a trend.

Should have said 'almost exclusively'

[Husar]

That's disgusting but Ii can totally understand that people don'twant them near them, immigrant criime, especially sexual, is swept under the rug by the socalled institutionally racist police, that is a wellknown practise. These few racist attacks are incidents before becommig a trend, a shame they happen. Sexual violence is a trend.

Should have said 'almost exclusively'

Sounds like they sweep everything under the rug then: From the first link:

The country, which has led the humanitarian response to the refugee crisis, has recorded 222 attacks on homes but only a five-per-cent conviction rate.
[...]
Because attackers were targeting homes at night - often throwing Molotov cocktails from moving cars or heavy stones at windows - police say they are difficult to catch.

But a lack of police officers, particularly in eastern parts of Germany, has also been blamed.

Police really don't seem to catch anyone anymore...

Perhaps it really isn't so much an issue of whether police are way too racist or way too PC but just that politicians don't care and just lowered the budgets further and further. I think the CDU promised 15k more policemen. Makes me wonder whether that is even sufficient.
There were some other, more general reports about how many German cities had lost their medical examiners to budget cuts and the remaining ones are overworked, which slows down the police investigations etc.
Combine also with the reports about how Germany is the favourite retirement home for mafia bosses and killers as well as being a major hub for human trafficking and maybe the major issue is just that somehow our politicians seem to do absolutely nothing against criminals anymore as long as it's not an easily visible crime making the national headlines. And even then a lot of what they do may be completely unsuitable to solve or deter further crimes.

That's not to say it's terrible here, but if we continue to cripple the police force, maybe it will be. One of the articles mentions that security has been largely privatized, so private security is often guarding the refugee homes, and many of the guards are racists themselves. In other words, it might just be neoliberalism at work once again... Privatize the hell out of everything and then blame it on something else and hope people forget before you actually have to do something about it. Given Merkel's approval rating it appears to be a viable tactic...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I read the original play in English translation, I meant this new version - English text or video with subtitles. Probably not to be found.



The recent wave of refugees and attendant difficulties is notably separate from any problems Germany and France and have had with long-established Turkish or North African demographics, respectively.

The most serious impediments to cultural harmony in Europe today are largely a factor of nativist right-wing hostility and intransigence. One precondition to flourishing is the rejection of both the European and Muslim reactionary elements.

It's sad that Eastern Europeans are among the worst offenders, because with their commitment their countries' depopulated rural zones could be revitalized through refugee resettlement and investment.

If you want another moonbat lefty humanist work of theater, set a play where Syrians arrive in the Bulgarian mountains, a lonely babushka finds meaning in her life by becoming engaged in the upbringing of the newcomers' children, everyone learns the value of community, everyone is sad when the seniors pass away, but are left optimistic with an eye to the future. THE END

Scored with Smetana's Ma Vlast