Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think I've finally iso'ed everyone.

Except Monty.

And no thanks.

[Csargo]

So then... Csargo?

As with my other votes, it's more gut feeling than deep analysis- but I just feel like he's trying too hard at being vanilla. Slaan gives me a little bit of a scummy vibe too- but glancing at the analysis of others, he at least appears to have a little data to support a town claim. Otherwise... I guess it's just someone who's been flying beneath the radar all game?

I've got nothing left, you voted me with a one-liner.

If you can townread Xiahou off of 7 posts hats off to you, I'll leave you to your work. There's nothing left for me to say tbh.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So then... Csargo?

As with my other votes, it's more gut feeling than deep analysis- but I just feel like he's trying too hard at being vanilla. Slaan gives me a little bit of a scummy vibe too- but glancing at the analysis of others, he at least appears to have a little data to support a town claim. Otherwise... I guess it's just someone who's been flying beneath the radar all game?

Monty's been under the radar / in a lot of towns and did suggest tying chox/logic.

Hiding in plain sight.

In any case I have my 6 townies and 3 scums and I feel a lot more secure in them than I did before.

Monty/Slaan earned their town leans, but Csargo didn't. Sloppy pizza.

[Csargo]

Alright.

[Dp101]

Time for me to go back and check that he actually did not vote me, I’m 90% sure but my memory can be pretty bad. I remember noticing that GH got it wrong at the time though, and I have absolutely no idea why I didn’t follow up on it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Time for me to go back and check that he actually did not vote me, I’m 90% sure but my memory can be pretty bad. I remember noticing that GH got it wrong at the time though, and I have absolutely no idea why I didn’t follow up on it.

He didn't.

I'm laffin.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That deserves to win the game right there, if GH voted his own scum buddy for voting for DP when all he really did was ask a few questions.

That's brilliant, because how do you consider them scum buddies after that? How? How is that possible.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I put Cuth outside of my town after all that. Lol me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Dat spew.

Dat spew.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's almost 6am and hopefully this will be the last night phase I am forced to hunt for bad guys.

Please, for the love of god, shoot me tonight. I have to see the cards now.

If it's outside of those three, I've been bested. BESTED.

WP to you.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm still re-reading, so help me.

Here, colors.

Blue: Dead town or known town
Teal: Claim makes them town
Green: Leans

Vote count:

Pizza (1): Manasi

Zack (1): Xiahou

Logic (6): Pizza, Dp101, Slaan, Choxorn, Kagemusha, Winston Hughes

Reinoe (1): Fredwood

El Barto (1): Csargo

Choxorn (5): Montmorency, Zack, GH, Reinoe, Logic

Xiahou (1): El Barto

Not voting (1): Cuthillius,

With 17 players there are 9 to hammer.

Cuth looking great due to the scum spew and GH's vote reasoning.

DP/Fred isos look outstanding. Interactions with the dead scum are all super favorable.

Xiahou meta and vote record indicates strongly in his favor.

Either Slaan was bussing, or that wagon was super clean before Csargo hopped on, or Monty is scum for trying to push for a tie between Chox and Logic artificially. Which is maybe the only error in an otherwise insane scum game. Monty's game is otherworldly if he's scum here. Still, I believe he has it in him. But wow what an achievement if so. Kept his WIM all the way.

[Csargo]

What about Dp101 and Fred's isos makes them outstanding?

[Askthepizzaguy]

What about Dp101 and Fred's isos makes them outstanding?

Gah, I gotta stop my re-read to do this.

It's fine though, I have to make the legacy reads understandable.

Give me one sec, I'll pull up the dp interactions which look the best, and then do Fred.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Let's call any post I don't quote possibly NAI, or this is the abbreviated version of his ISO anyway, to try to keep this ~readable.

Chunk 1: The early game, dp builds a town and demonstrates sass and real emotion.

I'm very lost.

response to my roleplaying.

Doing work and wrapping it in so many jokes and references that it's impossible to read is very hard to distinguish from pretending to do work. I'll try to read your logic post again to see if it makes sense, but I know for sure that I didn't get it my first time through.

I can believe this.

Quick, what does the pizza mega-analysis say about unfathomable certainty 3 hours into D1?

In his iso, you can see him asking people questions and demanding quick answers for a short stretch, and reaction testing Zack who seemed oblivious to what he was doing. Stirring the pot and poking things in a solving way.

Quick, give a read on me, I don’t think you’ve seen me play before so I’m curious as to what you think of my style.

Like this one.

Ok, Zack is town, locking it in.

In my opinion, dp101 would be impressed by Zack's post, which was voting me for town reading Zack. It's just a very dp101 thing to do. Hell, I had Zack as a town read and didn't budge at the time.

Logic isn't my strong suit. Neither are words. Or making good arguments. I'm bad at everything.

I think this post makes Csargo most likely to be town.

Again, Dp looking to build a town, not attack posts which are attackable.

Ehhh, no. I'm not convinced that scum stages that kind of joking breakdown so early and easily, I can't really see Csargo actually deciding to make that kind of post as scum, rather than a more standard rebuttal or backing down.

His process on you. Basically, he's anticipating that you have a really sweet scum game. That's a good defense.

I posted in another language, yet I think I was still more understandable than this. I think you are saying that you think you might have caught 2 scum, but haven't got town on board yet due to them not being obvious enough, but I have no idea what you mean by the last sentence.

Stuff like this is dp101 in mediator mode. He wants to facilitate understanding. I feel like this is dp's happy place. I've never really seen him not.

Every time I see you write incorrect, I imagine you yelling it at your screen as you type. It's highly amusing.

Humor feels where it should be. DP is relaxed.

So it's lazy for me to expect that other people should post in a manner that is easily understood without having to google things? More specifically, I have literally no chess knowledge, and so I wouldn't even know what part of the post quoted in 167 to put into google. I'm already tired of talking about how I tried joking about something and thought about reading someone off of it, but retracted it, so I'm not even going to address that point. I would love to know what you think I need to do to make a read worthwhile, because while you call post 247 a no effort read, you are missing 2 things: Firstly, me reading him town there was not just from that one post, but from his consistently natural behaviour congruent with standard town Zack gameplay, and secondly, I was joking in how confident I was because of his comment about him being annoyed with people strongly townreading him for no reason.

I love hearing someone call me lazy when I've posted 3-4 times as much as them. You claim that I'm posting just to post, but it's D1, that's my standard thing until someone actually makes a post that I feel I can make a case on them off of, and that hasn't happened yet. Thus, small jokes and reads. Quite frankly, the way you phrased this post makes it seem like you are trying to provoke me/insult me, and I think I should probably take a break so that I don't lash out more.

Ok apparently I'm not stepping away to cool down, because this is the most hypocritical post in the thread. You literally call me lazy, and then in the very next post, decline to do some very simple work asked in a friendly matter by someone who is most likely not scum at this point. Vote: reinoe because not only is your behaviour not helping town whatsoever, but you also seem determined to tilt people to put them off their game.

I am seriously going to take a break after this because this game is just making me angry right now, and I really really don't want to get tilted.

This is dp actually being offended by reinoe's rudeness. Even if you call it NAI, later, when he hears what my thoughts are on reinoe (that he's town, and this is kind of how reinoe might always behave because it seems to be characteristic of his personality) he is visibly depressed. As in, he cannot remove this guy from the game.

Do something useful, make a read.

Snapping at Csargo. This tells me that the anger is real, it's not just for show.

Posting that I am not understanding something is useful to town, because the point of posting is to communicate ideas, and if I'm not understanding someone's posts when they appear not to be jokes, it is very important that I say something so that everyone can cooperate and read each other with minimal confusion.

At no point did I say "please clear me, I posted a lot". When someone comes in and does one post of analysis that reads like it's a personal attack on me, centred around me apparently doing nothing, then refuses to answer a simple question, that's what ticks me off, not me not getting townread by you simply by posting a bunch. I don't care if you scumread me, I just want you to be consistent, and when you criticise me for something and then immediately exemplify it, can you understand why I'd get a little ticked off?

Back to mediator mode. Trying to facilitate understanding.

Hell "facilitating understanding" could be dp101's undertitle.

Being repetitively called lazy for expecting other people to talk in plain english (and yes I know I jokingly wrote a single word in another language but it's not even close to the same order of magnitude) was pretty tilting, as was the apparent expectation that every single thing I posted needed to be 110% solving. In particular, him zeroing in on me as lazy and not having done anything when there were multiple people who have spent far larger portions of their posts today screwing around really annoyed me, especially given that my initial stance entering the thread was that people were screwing around too much. Idk, as much as I call my own town play terrible or worthless occasionally, I don't appreciate it when other people do. The way that the whole thing was phrased also stuck out to me as being designed as insults. I think you'ld agree with me that basically every point he made could have been made in a nicer way, and I could not figure out why he seemingly went out of his way to antagonise me.

Like I said, even if you think this is NAI, I don't. reinoe's posts really bothered him.

Ok, seems reasonable to me thus far. I feel though that right now, Pizza is more likely to just be having fun as town, rather than being scum. I'll probably wait and see with him, maybe his pushes are correct. You can have an extremely light town read.

response to Csargo's reads list. Again, dp is building a town. Handing out town credits where he sees fit.

Thanks for explaining in a more clear fashion what I was getting at. You can be town, for now.

response to GH's post.

I’m not sure that scum winston lampshades this. Moderate town for now.

Still building a town.

Can we lynch pizza for all the chess references?

Very tempting, but there’s a tell he hasn’t dropped yet.

I believe he thinks me voting him is a tell.

Let's break this up. Next section...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Chunk 2:

Dp's empathy and bleeding real townie emotion. Plus dat Logic vote.

It should be illegal for Pizza to be having this much fun, this is obscene.

DP putting himself into the other person's shoes. He sees I'm having fun and is empathetic. I feel like scums don't empathize well and are not in a mindset where they put themselves in the other person's shoes. It doesn't have to be part of their process.

I wonder if Pizza will post less if I give in and sheep him Vote: Logic

No matter how you look at this post, voting scum on d1 for this reason is Townie. As.

He's only at +3 for a reason. Don't think this is a repeat of that, though. I think I can read reinoe based on his posts and personality.

The stuff he's not saying he's not saying it because he's kind of like Awa in game 11 in a certain sense, this is what he thinks is correct.

It's too close to his actual nature to be faked imo. If he's scum he is not indicating it yet in any way you can detect.

Yeah it's a risk to lock the slot town, but it's a small one. Play the odds.

So you know who they are then?

Quote about reinoe.

Hey, there are some important bits, I had a decent fight. You could just use novice’s tool to collapse all posts by Pizza and Zack so you can read everything else to make it easier to get through.

I don't remember if I commented on this last time, but this is super townie. It's very helpful.

I have a wild guess. There's only maybe 2 or 3 people who have ever played with this uncooperative stubborn style who would have made their way here.

I can be wrong but I am right about this, they're not gonna change. Find the scums and you won't need to worry about him.

This is also a huge danger of trapping white pieces behind another piece that can't move. Dont. Do not do this. Focus on where you can move.

We need to coordinate as best we can under the circumstances.

Well that sounds like this game will be extremely fun for me.

Here. This is super indicative to me. He's clearly crushed by the idea. A mafia shouldn't be bothered by reinoe so much, even if they were rude. You can kill him, you see.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Chunk 3: The process, and the state of the game

Logic is straightforward. He can't hide in plain sight when he's a town power role, he just kind of vanishes. He has real thoughts as town that people sometimes dismiss for being too A ---> B, and as scum he's just kinda... like this. Not confident enough to battle, more liable to undercut or smudge, passive aggressive stuff. No depth, generic posts, catchable under pressure.

I don't think he can break out of this pattern since he's been at this for years. Logic is who he is. He needs someone who knows how to read him when he's town otherwise he's mislynch bait. He can hide under the radar if you don't push him as scum. He tenses up when he's got a town pr or scum role.

So what about his play makes him not just a town PR? The vanishing from the thread your describe seems to categorise his play this game fairly well, and personally, that’s been a far larger element of his play than any slips early game. Maybe I should reread the start.

This makes sense. He's already helping pressure Logic, but wants to rule out some bad universes, like the one where he might flip town power role and his "scumminess" was because he was nervous about a town power. Prompted by my own comments about his town pr meta.

Well, now that I'm finally live, some combination of Fred, Barto, and Reinoe. I'd also like to stay live for a little while.

I can deal with this minus Fred, his content has been intermittent but fairly genuine.

Still building a town. And when he has a town read, he argues in favor, or makes it known, especially when someone pushes on them. That's a good process.

As a matter of fact, I don't recall that @Dp101 ever explained what he was referring to.

Oh, I was referring to his consistent early pushing of me when he's scum. I'm pretty happy calling him town now.

Yeah, think this is part of his process on me.

dp, gimme a spicy take

Csargo is town.

Still trying to build a town. He sees votes/suspicion on Csargo and tries to argue that the slot is town.

not a wolf
or town?
I don't care for the push on him either, but that's a S P I C Y leap.

Zack's interested in this read.

Well, a S P I C Y read was requested. I personally think that being worn out is a pretty likely reason for his volume and play thus far. I never really buy the "town got all the best players I guess we've lost" explanation for lost WIM, and personally, find lack of WIM to be pretty NAI overall. If the main thing against him is lack of content, then I think the case is bad, and other than lacking in quantity, his posts have been tonally sound, so, town.

Look at that process. These are complex thoughts showing actual depth.

2. i would have agreed with you in the past

but lissa in particular and a few others have reacted in a quite similar way as wolves

i do think it's... not bad at all for him

I understand the overall sentiment of this post, but I take issue with this portion of it. You know very well that I am not lissa, or "a few others", and personally, after playing with me for as many games as you have, I would think that you'ld know that I don't often do the expected thing. In particular, I really try and avoid getting heated as a wolf, because I feel it strays too close to the kind of emotional manipulation that makes me feel guilty, as opposed to the more fun gleefully lying about what I feel and why I feel it. Your first post is slightly accurate in that I can certainly imagine myself screwing around a little like that as a wolf, but overall I think I'd only do that at MU. After how fast I was caught as scum the one time I randed it on this website, I'm pretty sure that if it happened again, I'd be really frozen and clunky in my posting out of fear of that same kind of rapid collapse.

This is a big one. This is dp101 spitting some truth about his wolf meta, I believe.

I waited a while to respond to that post because I wasn't quite sure how to phrase my reply to it, or if I really needed to reply given that you seemed to have come to the right conclusion, but I feel better having more of my thoughts out there in general.

Interesting additional depths to the above post.

hey dp

having a nice evening?

No, I'm swamped with homework and have a large test tomorrow followed by some SAT subject tests the next day, so I'm actually kind of stressed. How about you?

Meanwhile, in Logic-land:

Vote count:

Pizza (2): Csargo, Manasi

Cuthillius (2): GH, Kagemusha

Zack (3): Montmorency, El Barto, Xiahou

Logic (5): Pizza, Winston Hughes, Dp101, Slaan, Choxorn

Reinoe (1): Fredwood

Kagemusha (1): Logic

El Barto (2): Zack, Reinoe

Not voting (1): Cuthillius

With 17 players there are 9 to hammer.

His emotional state is not reflective of the wolf that's about to hang, or the other wolves GH and Zack under suspicion or actual vote pressure.

Dp's emotional state is all wrong if this is him as a wolf.

He says he's stressed, but it's about real life only. And it doesn't even bleed into the game. It's got nothing to do with the game. In the game, he's smooth and cool as a cucumber now that he's not having people be rude at him.

How you can tell it's not game related, is that the game actually seems to be a respite from actual stress. The game is relaxing him.


This is even before the GH and Zack chicanery.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Chunk 4

The wolf team decides to commit suicide

Can’t believe there’s still another day until this phase is over. I’m glad that phases will become shorter later.

This is the stuff on dp's mind. He really has no idea he's about to lynch a wolf methinks.

I've read everything, but I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to participate much tonight. I'm wiped out after a whole bunch of studying and probably should get more sleep than normal rather than play mafia late into the night. What I will say is that Zack is becoming even more lock town to me, I really feel the push on him is criticising him playing the game effectively rather than him doing anything scummy. I also think that the Fredwood mini-push based on the "unfortunately" phrasing is really stupid, and probably a poor look for everyone involved. Such a minor phrasing thing is just a really poor thing to base a read off of. Also, I think I'm mostly off of the Logic wagon, the GH analysis feels like it pushes him more towards town than anything else. Zack's Barto case looks decent, and I think that it is probably one of the stronger options at this point in time. The swap to chox is hot garbage IMO, the strategy of lynch the lowposter is rarely a good one. I get that the posts themselves have been a tad sheepy, but not sure that it's enough to make him the lynch.

Much later, he's still trying to argue in favor of his town reads. Also "The swap to choxorn is hot garbage." As if the wolf team really needs dp saying this.

don't remember you being so quick to dismiss things as stupid and hot garbage before

Zaccino don't like it
dp rocks the kasbah, rocks the kasbah.

Note on time frame: Lots and lots of time between these posts above and below. Now it's nearing end of Day.

Zack I'm kicking you out of my town until further notice. I think Monty is right about you.

Well I think this is the towniest he’s ever been in any game I’ve played with him. I haven’t gone through and checked in what ways it is different, but just because someone’s different doesn’t make them scum.

Snap defends Zack. This is solid. This is how he's been defending all his town reads. He doesn't care who says his townies are scum, he'll say nay nay.

I feel that this statement comes from a tunneled perspective. You see it as coming from a wolf because you are already so certain of your push.

At this point, DP could easily fake and pretend to be worried I'm misleading the town and move off. Instead, he's trying to understand me and also trying to defend Zack as a town read. DP totally responsible for the Logic lynch.

Look, if it’s me and him in F3, I’ll vote him, because he should not be alive at that stage, but before then, I don’t think it’s a good option.

Solid process.

With 1h to go

Vote count:

Pizza (1): Manasi

Zack (1): Xiahou

Logic (7): Pizza, Dp101, Slaan, Choxorn, Kagemusha, Winston Hughes, Csargo

Reinoe (1): Fredwood

Choxorn (5): Montmorency, Zack, GH, Reinoe, Logic

Xiahou (1): El Barto

Choxorn is the hot garbage lynch. He was on Logic since early early for very townie reasons.

Near end of round, Zack and GH begin flailing. Zack pushing Monty.

Zack please do not do this. Monty really hasn't done much AI at this point, other than be wrong, and we haven't even confirmed if he is wrong yet, I just think he is.

This is good interaction with Zack.

I mean, when have CFDs ever helped anyone. They always seem to exchange a reasonable lynch option for one that is essentially rand.

You guys are boring.

Interesting != winning.

At this point, from what I can tell, Zack and GH crosspost a sudden push on dp.

Your team literally just got destroyed by a CFD in a game where you were a wolf.

I seem to recall you being the successful target of one in Jabbz's game.

And I don't think this is something you would forget either.

Both had him very strong or lock town. I think they went YOLO here after they saw the crosspost.

Vote: Dp101

pretty sure i gave dp too much credit early

have not liked his posting much since then

YOLO

gh is a gentleman and a scholar

Join me.

In all seriousness he's been on the business end of CFDs at least twice, one of them directly and he still pulls out that line.

This is one scum buddy coaching the other. If they have a quicktopic, clicking back and forth there takes too much time. Why not directly coordinate in the thread?

And so, they decide to "cfd" dp101, who was a townie read strongly for both, while Logic was hanging and DP is the reason why it happened.

And both Zack and GH fried for this cfd attempt, so DP is responsible for as many wolf deaths as anyone else.

And it don't look like a bus.

The end.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Fredwood next.

[Cuthillius]

hi

i'm here

i think monty is towny, because the thoughts he's been expressing are relatively solid, but i

maybe

i'm not sure

more people are churning out far more content than i'd ever expect, but i think that's just because i would be awful at caring whatsoever about the game if my team died like that

i agree that pizza/fred/dp are all extremely towny

and slaan/monty aren't lickity lock villagers but i'd be super amazed and impressed if they were, particularly in slaan's case

i think he did a fine job of responding to pizza, i see why he was pushed but his replies were rock solid and he's stepping up the game

i have no damn idea about xiahou but i trust pizza for the most part

and i must have missed the chox thing but i think i get the gist just fine

aaand

i have no strong feelings about the poe

[Csargo]

This is my mediocre attempt at isoing Dp101:

Dp101:
Page 2 nothing
Page 3 back and forth, GH#220 calls Dp/Zack town
Page 4: Calls Zack town #247,
Page 5: # 317 has problem with ATPG’s RP, #338-339 strong reaction to reinoe analysis after prompting reinoe for it, #341 jebaited, exchange strange, #353 twisting the situation referring to him prompting reinoe for a read on him.
Page 6: #404 calls GH town, #405 criticizes Kage’s vote?,
Page 7: #515 Zack/GH solidly town; Cuth mediocre, Csargo underwhelming.
Page 8: #585 Vote:Logic,
Page 9: Says vote is mostly sheeping/not sure how to read logic,
Page 10: Calls me spicy town, #746 interesting, #760 interesting/good,
Page 11: Nothing
Page 12: #934 Zack more locktown/defending him, doesn’t like the logic case as much anymore, GH more town, Zack Barto case looks decent, chox lynch hot garbage.

GH’s 948:

@reinoe

I'm somewhere around here right now:

Zack - scum
Kage - town
Monty

Dp101
reinoe - town
Slaan
Logic - scum
Winston -town
ATPG - town

---town line---

Csargo
Xiahou
Cuth
Fredwood
El Barto - town

Choxorn - claim joat
Manasi - town

~~~~~~

Zack is obvious town, Kage I already talked about, Monty seems like usual Monty.

The people in the next best slot all are either matching their town meta or are otherwise helping push the gamestate along in a way I consider to be townie.

Xiahou I think might be town just off the two post reads but I'm not arrogant enough to move him up a tier for that. I don't really have a read on Csargo and Cuth is sort of improving for me since I voted him early on in the phase as he gets more engaged, but he's not there yet. Fredwood I need to take another look at now that we've had some distance from our interaction yesterday and how it went down.

Choxorn as town just has... more bite to him. I'm not really seeing that from him here. Compare his some of his posts in Swords and Sorcery, where he was town:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

To posts in Representative Democracy, where he was mafia:



And he's just more direct and to the point when he's town. So far the closest note he's hit here is probably this post:



Which isn't quite there.

Not the best, but I'm tired. I feel like Slaan's probably our last baddie at this point, but I have concerns about Dp101 from what I've isoed so far, they're mild at best, but such is life.

[Cuthillius]

will be around for prolly fifteen minutes and then i'm hitting the hay

[Csargo]

Also, chances that the last scum is in the top half of GH's list with the other two?

[Askthepizzaguy]

will be around for prolly fifteen minutes and then i'm hitting the hay

You saw chox's claim, yes?

He can't claim that and live, so he's town.

Csargo/Slaan/Monty are the only people who I can't lock town. Slaan and Monty have really deep games if they're a wolf.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also, chances that the last scum is in the top half of GH's list with the other two?

NAI, Gh would put his scums anywhere. All scummy, mostly scummy, null, half and half, mostly townie.

You can't be predictable and he can effortlessly read his own teammates town.

[Cuthillius]

You saw chox's claim, yes?

He can't claim that and live, so he's town.

Csargo/Slaan/Monty are the only people who I can't lock town. Slaan and Monty have really deep games if they're a wolf.

that's squarely where i'm at as well

[Askthepizzaguy]

Fredwood the townie

Chunk one: No idea how correct we are. Plus, snappy comebacks.

Sup Jerks. So I read all this thread...lol@me I even viewed 7 minutes of the two minute videos posted.

The blowback confused, suss of Pizza for doing what he's doing feels almost concerted and deliberately obtuse to get the early discredit on him. The style is atypical, but I don't feel the content is atypical. (The one game I've played). Interesting how quickly the stance was backed off. I do have an issue with his town read of Rein, but will get into that later.

I like Zack, I also think he's villa, with a conditional hedge so I can move back my knight to starting position later. I've only played with town Zack, and he seems more solvey early in this game then those others. I hesitate to go full town core on him, but I'm not going to vote off top poster day 1.



Reinoe


This post isn't accurate, if anything Zack is attacking or picking at people who are town reading him. He attacked both Pizza and GH's town read of him. If you want to get into how attacking your town reads is easy town equity, Well too late, Zack already pointed that out for easy town equity. Rein's post at best means he's not actually reading Zack's posts.


Csargo's agreement with Rein doesn't feel right either, he agrees with the inaccurate part of his post but not the rest of it?

It feels like a stretch to townread CS for his "I'm bad at eveyrthing" line after getting nuked by Zack in an argument. DP seems especially limpber

Can I say the DP/Rein interaction feels fake AF, from either one or both sides I'm not sure which. Read in spoiler if you're interested, otherwise Wall o' Text.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Rein drops for names in his hot take read post. Has associative reads based on Logic as if Logic has already flipped, but not pushing the actual logic flip. (I think Logic is scum, and I think Zack is scum for not talking to Logic, therefore I shall vote Zack...the F?) Meanwhile mentions Pizza and GH as town with no reasoning.

DP begs for him to drop a read on himself, and Rein has this bajillion word post he drops on DP about lazy and faking confusion...so you had that many thoughts on DP but didn't bring it up in your first post? During all this time he's ignoring Zack's question about his town reads and Monty's question about Winston. As if your town reads aren't just important for viewing your progression as town reads.

Vote: Reinoe

Good complex thoughts opening post by Fredwood.

Yeah, I am dead. Rest in Peace me.

For reference, what Fred is reacting to next

Well, that was a completely normal reaction.

Good reaction to Csargo's reaction.

You're right. My town reads are not as important to me as my scumreads. And yes, I'm deliberately not answering Zack's question about said townreads. Although I disagree with what you're saying. DP seems genuinely frustrated in a "caught for the wrong reasons" kind of way and I'm sincere about getting tired of him constantly talking about being confused.

Although I didn't call logic sum for not talking to Zack. I didn't give a reason for why logic is scum (it's for 215 which seems so out of place). I said they're talking to each other. My reasons for thinking logic is suspicious is entirely separate.

I don't care about your suss on Logic aside from the fact that you're not pushing him. My issue is you pushing Zack over logic because "Zack" didn't talk to logic. You're saying logic is scum, therefore Zack is scum because he's avoiding logic. Well get logic lynched first then go after Zack.

BAM!

Instantly huge townie points for Fredwood. This is like... impossible.

No, I'm not saying logic is scum therefore zack is scum.

1. Logic is scum independently of Zack.

2. Zack has talked to everything that moves except logic. Therefore they're either masons/scum/neighbors. I stated this once already. Either way they're talking to each other OOT and thus have no reason to talk in thread.

3. Zack is scummy independent of Zack.

They are not necessarily scum together but somehow they are talking to each other.

Like, Fredwood agrees that you should push on both, but in a different order. reinoe's explanation after that made no sense to him, so he posts this.

The picture is worth a thousand words, and I think that Fredwood has absolutely no idea reinoe is pushing on 2 scums here.

This is crazy good.

I think Fred could be a bit better so far.

I think your hat looks dumb

LMFAO still at this post. Great snap back. Fredwood not taking any soft crap from GH. Go hard or go home.

I feel like you were more active at least slightly in your self-defense in X-Com, I guess I should re-read that.

In response to Csargo saying "cool" to suspicion on him. Then he seemingly does go re-read it.

Oh good, the iso only works for one day phase.

Thing is, I ISO and stuff to make cases even when I'm a wolf, so it's NAI technically. But for most people, give em a town point for this. The above reason "more active" in self-defense between games reads like a real, spontaneous scum read on Csargo. Not contrived.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I guess the first 72 hours are going to be boring until we keep repeating ourselves about how we're going to lynch Logic, I don't think I've ever seen such a consensus Day 1.

Bart's entrance was sloppy, but I don't think as sloppy as Rein's.

Otherwise I caught up and most of it was Pizza's spam posts, the only other thing is I think I put Slaan solidly at the top of my Town pile. Zack hasn't looked as strong during this catchup, but a part of that may be him just being frustrated and bickering with Pizza and Bart. His assessment of Bart's meta is interesting.

I will address the CSargo thing, I wasn't using his last game as a baseline for his read, I was referring specifically to how he defended himself. His responses to pressure have literally been "cool" or a version of "you got me". In that game whenever it came up Csargo is scum he was more playful and snarky. I'm not talking about his activity, or content outside of his reaction to pressure, which I think it's fair to think for it to be consistent no matter the situation. Still in the end I said I didn't think it was a fair baseline for comparison anyway, so DON'T LECTURE ME.

Maybe NAI, but looks like a good process.

Fredwood has his own reads and he's moving at his own pace. He's not on board with the Zack or Logic stuff but he actually encouraged someone to lynch both just now. The guy he's voting, in fact.

I've been busier and don't actually want to keep up that rate of activity

I did that in the one game with mtgs on MU that was 72/24. It was exhausting and miserable. Can't go hard in the paint 72 hours straight, it's not healthy for me.

Zack's response to Fredwood's mention of his dropping activity / wim

I was more talking about your seeming annoyed by Bart and Pizza which did mess with the flow and content you had earlier. I'm not demanding any type of activity, I don't think I've posted 10 times. Still high up in my town, was just explaining why I'd put Slaan ahead of you now in his own tier.

See, Fredwood doesn't have to be lynching scums for posts like this to clear him.

This is bananas.

FINALLY, a dissenting opinion about Logic.

Essentially his one reason not to push on Logic. Seemed too easy, wagon was too popular. Fredwood was chasing his own leads.

It's bad for the health of the game and a LOT more valuable if the discussion continues.

Look at how much we found when we didn't just mega-wagon Logic. The dissent and continued drama and unsure outcome made all the other scums catchable.

Don't create enormouswagons, even on scum. It's bad for the game and bad for town. You can do better than lynch 1 scum. Lynch 1 scum and find their buddies.

what am i, chopped liver

I mean, how many times does someone call a naturally suspicious looking person a wolf 1/3 into d1, literally almost the entire game says "sure bud" and votes him, and they actually flip wolf?

Zack's response to Fredwood.

I thought Reinoe's entrance was fine. Why didn't you like it?

GH's response to Fredwood.

No, you're at least Corned Beef. I thought your logic stance was not as strong as a scum read, but were willing to lynch. GH is the first person to call Logic not mafia.

If it's two, then cool



More victory dances.

LOL

Maybe it wasn't his entrance, but it's the first time I noticed him, so I misspoke. My issue was his first content post, and then further his DP post.

His Logic scum read and somewhat associative read with Zack but pushing Zack before Logic.

He said independently that he has a scum read on Zack, buuuuut, the read he gave was inaccurate, he accused him of OMGUS when Zack did as much picking at people town reading him as he dis people scum reading him. That and his DP post felt forced AF, and overly long, when he didn't mention him before.

I can be talked down from a ledge on him, I just don't really have a stronger inclination to go to at this moment. The Logic thing was bothering me because it felt like an overwhelming damnation of the poor guy.

YES.

Fred why am I your top town read?

Started with your GH joke, I liked you questioning of Pizza during his catchup. Also the sass at Zack during this time. It feels like you're keeping the thread in check and I like the tone. Considering I only have like two town leans in this game so far, you're the best of two, so take that as you will.

Pretty good post considering Zack's flip. Depth in this read.

As a recipient of Barto's unique version of the welcoming committee and me getting a bug in my bonnet about it, he does feel different. I feel a demonstrable difference between Bart in Xcom as opposed to Logic in XCom. Unfortunately most of Logic's play has been off the back foot so even if I did sense a change in playstyle.

I agree with Monty in the sense that Logic feels like the "correct" lynch today, but illogical me would like to vote Bart here.

Anyway fatigue etc etc etc neither have been here defending themselves etc etc etc.

This is hardly arguing against the Logic lynch, it's even supportive. This is a bad position to put yourself in if you're a wolf and are not okay with Logic being dead.

Where is the "let's lynch Barto today, for these reasons. Put him in contention with Logic". Etc.

Nonexistent. He's just solving on his own.

Basically yeah, I'm willing to vote either here, but I think I'm leaning Logic (unfortunately)

In your experience, how often has the consensus lynch choice halfway through a D1 been correct?

Trying to get support for some non-logic lynch. Fredwood isn't really on the fence, but he's not whole hog on Logic, so he should be "gettable" and persuadable to push elsewhere mebbe.

And what do you mean "unfortunately?" If you're town you're not hemmed into any particular read here, you get to say what you want.

Sensing weak post, attackable at least?

this post feels like a wolf prepping for a wolf flip

Zack joins the attack as well.

Winston, thoughts on Fred's "unfortunately"?

Attackable.

Zack and GH both looking for attackable things at this stage of the game. They go for Monty, Fred, and dp at various times.

"attackable" meaning attackable townies.

We are done here.

Unfortunately.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If any of DP or Fredwood are scum, they are the greatest of all time.

Those isos cannot be faked.

Xiahou could conceivably fake his town game, because it's easier. You just have to copy and paste the structure and keep your head down and hope Slaan doesn't lynch you.

But he looks great.

Cuth just got spewed mega hard by GH and every other scum, so.

Chox is lock.

Those are 5 locks plus me. What else is there to do except lynch the other three.

[Askthepizzaguy]

9am now.

If there are any other questions directed at me, I'll have to answer them before midnight tonight, in 15 hours.

But I feel like I've earned a nap.

[Dp101]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, Pizza for MVP.