Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Slaan]

WIFOM.

Kill me, then kill blank, is not a worse position if it means people don't kill him as he suggested.

I wouldn't say hammer me, then lynch X as scum, same argument.

His defense is all wine by this point in the game.

Wasnt intended as a defence, was me telling you guys to please kill Xia because it will be me revolting in my grave when the game ends in a mafia victory because Xia survived :)

[Askthepizzaguy]

In addition to not seeing a towniness... I actually feel like you don't want to see it because you sussed me all game.

I do want to see it, man.

I wanted to see it so badly I put suspicious posts of yours as townie for you without knowing your meta.

I have the opposite desire, I wanted to town with you so bad this game.

And I still do, but your defenses are all coming up shallow to me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wasnt intended as a defence, was me telling you guys to please kill Xia because it will be me revolting in my grave when the game ends in a mafia victory because Xia survived :)

Ok.

If you flip town, he's on the table. Not that it matters, I'll be right there with you.

He can reasonably fake it. It's not a lot of content to fake, after all.

But it looks super good to push Zack when he did. I wouldn't be convinced unless the POE was wrong.

[Askthepizzaguy]

And to cover our ass,

Slaan are you also on board with Csargo being in that 3 person POE?

If it was him all along I don't want him getting away.

[Slaan]

The Monty issue is that you jump on him, then never really mention him as a possibility ever again, in fact you push him way up your reads list, post GH and Zack flip.

If I'm town, and I suss the fuck out of Monty that hard, regardless of if Monty is town or not, I want it addressed at some point. The leaving it lie is what makes me feel it's more likely the interaction is scum SLaan jumping on an attackable town Monty post rather then Town Slaan catching a scummy Monty post.

From my perspective he started looking better and better during the second half of D1 (which I think I've mentioned... I'm pretty sure I've posted smth like 'This looks good though monty so I'm moving you up a bit' or smth) and after GH/Zack flipped the interactions I thought scummy on D1 looked towny now iirc.. so yea, didnt feel like mentioning him much after that. Also figured the game would end if we just lynched down our old PoE so I didnt bother reading Monty again because thats.. like Monty is posting way too much. That changed ofc after the last couple of mislynches where I was forced myself to reread the thread... yep

[Askthepizzaguy]

Just to be clear, if Monty is scum we are officially letting him go now.

I am okay with this.

[Slaan]

If it were me, I'd erase everything I've done all game and shake my brain like an etch a sketch in final 4.

But I still have issues voting Xiahou that day. I guess if I somehow made it there (why?) with dp (why?) and fred (why?).

That's about it.

Well in this case I hope more ppl will be with me on Xia tomorrow than ppl will be with you on me ^^

Did you say something more than "if Logic flips mafia, GH looks bad"?

Did you push him after that in any way?

Or did you agree with him that dp101 looked bad for the cfd, after logic flipped?

That's where you don't get credit, Slaan.

Yea that dp did look bad at the time, this CFD comment was super weird from my perspective. I mean I sussed GH, I didnt have him 100% always scum.. I was even in favor of killing Chox D2 over him I thought him even more likely to be scum and I'd rather mislynch a quiet towny such as Chox over a strong towny that might just not be in the game such as GH. I still made several cases on him D2 iirc, like my pet theory that referenced the Wild West Game, his motivation after having randed like 80% scum in the last months and how he wasnt in the game which for him was way off and bothered me. If you don't give me credit for that... well it makes me sad but I guess I cant change it ^^

Btw arguing against 2 ppl that have been on me for days is quiet exhausting ^^

[Askthepizzaguy]

This can be the biggest feather in Monty's cap. Earned, imo.

Again, this is why Xiahou's plan doesn't work if he's scum. He's not going to gain addition pylons town points, and even if a pizza guy argues in his defense he still gets lynched.

It was never a winning plan, gentlemen.

Unless his plan is to be a townie and lynch scums.

[Slaan]

Calling who the mafia are but not pushing them is not credit.

You give Xia no credit for actually voting wolves when they weren't consensus and it's a dangerous vote, but give yourself credit for calling GH as scummy if Logic flips and then pushing the same narrative as him when Logic did flip.

If you are town and coincidentally happened to do this then yeah, credit. Won't take it away.

But that looks more like PIS than solving.

PIS? I mean I was pushing just not voting cuz I didnt see a reason to quickhammer before he even had a change to actually post smth on D2 else than 'You won't lynch me today'...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Btw arguing against 2 ppl that have been on me for days is quiet exhausting ^^

Heroic effort on your part regardless of alignment on a new forum.

A lot of folks show up and they just don't do anything, and drop out and have to be replaced.

Very refreshing not to need a replacement in a game for once.

[Slaan]

I do want to see it, man.

I wanted to see it so badly I put suspicious posts of yours as townie for you without knowing your meta.

I have the opposite desire, I wanted to town with you so bad this game.

And I still do, but your defenses are all coming up shallow to me.

I mean I don't see how I could defend myself differently ^^. Feel free to tell (or after the game) what you'd do in my shoes here.. I've accepted that I'm probably getting mislynched and mainly just post here to try to get ppl to maybe vote Xia at some point even if I were to die... (and because I don't have much else to do till night result is announced)... there isnt much more for me to do in my eyes :)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Slaan, you'd be okay with Xiahou/Csargo as two of the lynches remaining?

Just to clarify.

[Slaan]

Ok.

If you flip town, he's on the table. Not that it matters, I'll be right there with you.

He can reasonably fake it. It's not a lot of content to fake, after all.

But it looks super good to push Zack when he did. I wouldn't be convinced unless the POE was wrong.

Nice. Then just hammer me tomorrow so I don't have to worry anymore ^^

And to cover our ass,

Slaan are you also on board with Csargo being in that 3 person POE?

If it was him all along I don't want him getting away.

Oh yea, Csargo shouldt be getting away.

[Slaan]

Just to be clear, if Monty is scum we are officially letting him go now.

I am okay with this.

Yep. Well, if you have to mislynch me that is, we might get him if you and fred did a 180 but that seems unlikely^^. I hope a night kill fails somehow and we get another lynch...

Also imo important: Do not sleep in F4. I can totally see a mafia one shot vig holstering the entire game, it's what I'd do.

[Fredwood]

From my perspective he started looking better and better during the second half of D1 (which I think I've mentioned... I'm pretty sure I've posted smth like 'This looks good though monty so I'm moving you up a bit' or smth) and after GH/Zack flipped the interactions I thought scummy on D1 looked towny now iirc.. so yea, didnt feel like mentioning him much after that. Also figured the game would end if we just lynched down our old PoE so I didnt bother reading Monty again because thats.. like Monty is posting way too much. That changed ofc after the last couple of mislynches where I was forced myself to reread the thread... yep

But you completely remove him from you POE while including me. I can objectively see where you'd see where Monty and I are at the same level, but I don't see why with the suss you'd discount my spew over his process, esp, after Lock clearing me (I know you use lock too much, but at the time I didn't know) The issue with Monty is still valid imo. It's not something that's like is defensible so it's kind of unfair to keep harping on it, so I apologize, I was just sort of reiterating my read to Pizza.

(Shrug)

[Askthepizzaguy]

I mean I don't see how I could defend myself differently ^^. Feel free to tell (or after the game) what you'd do in my shoes here.. I've accepted that I'm probably getting mislynched and mainly just post here to try to get ppl to maybe vote Xia at some point even if I were to die... (and because I don't have much else to do till night result is announced)... there isnt much more for me to do in my eyes :)

Process.

I'll tell you in postgame how a scummy looking game can be read townie when you're townie. Don't have enough time left unless someone doesn't shoot me tonight.

I was in an endgame once with a guy who had pushed on scums, and a guy who pushed the wrong people a lot, and was suspected a lot.

Process is what helped me see he had real townie thoughts while trying to solve, and the other guy was just clearing hurdles.

Got both terms as part of my town solving method ever since that game over a year ago.

Your process is iffy.

You can look scummy and be a townie, but with a bad process like dropping reads or being inconsistent, having a defense of "I wouldn't do that as mafia", is effort, but still just clearing hurdles with a bad process.

I can't fix your process if it looks scummy but isn't, i can only identify if the process looks wrong to me.

[Fredwood]

Yep. Well, if you have to mislynch me that is, we might get him if you and fred did a 180 but that seems unlikely^^. I hope a night kill fails somehow and we get another lynch...

Also imo important: Do not sleep in F4. I can totally see a mafia one shot vig holstering the entire game, it's what I'd do.

lol I never said MOnty is in my town core. I would put Monty squarely in my POE, the problem is addressing him with you around would just break my brain. Monty is literally in the exact same spot he's always been for me but with you preventing his lynch.

[Montmorency]

The whole Slaan case is draining, because much of it on Slaan's process or potential slips makes sense, and it fits the POE...

Here's a bit during N3, before Pizza flipped on Slaan. Slaan since mid-D1 was the "echo". Could read either way. Could be scum playing it safe, or it could genuinely be Slaan half-sheeping because Pizza has picked up so much slack for the Town.

Even analyzing the kill can go either way for WIFOM.

Oh shit reinoe lock town

Is there an echo in here, slaan? :P

Luv u Slaan. Thanks for playing here. It's been a pleasure.

Whatever. Hopefully something good is about to happen; I have to monopolize the discussion for just a moment.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Guys, I have just one more thing I want to say.

[Slaan]

This can be the biggest feather in Monty's cap. Earned, imo.

Again, this is why Xiahou's plan doesn't work if he's scum. He's not going to gain addition pylons town points, and even if a pizza guy argues in his defense he still gets lynched.

It was never a winning plan, gentlemen.

Unless his plan is to be a townie and lynch scums.

With the way he is playing there is, in my eyes, never a winning strategy available. If I don't have progression, thoughts or reads from someone that posted less than 1 post / day I can't let them live till the end no matter what. It's not enough to townread them as every vote can be easily faked. We started with 17 ppl or smth, his one vote on Zack is rather meaningless at the time, it wasnt deciding anything, it was even (at least I thought so at the time) highly unlikely that a Zack wagon would be around towards EoD... how often does the top poster D1 get a wagon on him midday that remains till he gets lynched, that never happens...

In regards to monty: Yea, he can have this one if it comes to that. Also a reason I want to push Xia over for example Monty... Loosing to monty feels good. Well not good but deserved. Loosing to someone with 7 posts will just kill me inside.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If I die tonight...

[Askthepizzaguy]

I still posted 600 times this game.

Good Luck!

[Fredwood]

I really hope they pull a fast one and kill me so I don't have to do this anymore

[Slaan]

Heroic effort on your part regardless of alignment on a new forum.

A lot of folks show up and they just don't do anything, and drop out and have to be replaced.

Very refreshing not to need a replacement in a game for once.

Yea something I found really suprising here and on MU. We never have subs where I come from (which results in the occational modkill sure) but having the option here seems to encourage ppl to just sign up and not show from the start or being bothered with the setup around D1 or getting pissed at smth (both happened in the orchestrated orchestrated chaos game... was really making me sad). So also thanks for me at everyone for sticking around :)

[Fredwood]

Yea something I found really suprising here and on MU. We never have subs where I come from (which results in the occational modkill sure) but having the option here seems to encourage ppl to just sign up and not show from the start or being bothered with the setup around D1 or getting pissed at smth (both happened in the orchestrated orchestrated chaos game... was really making me sad). So also thanks for me at everyone for sticking around :)

You should totally kill me if I'm scum, imagine how much WIFOM fun that would be.

[Slaan]

But you completely remove him from you POE while including me. I can objectively see where you'd see where Monty and I are at the same level, but I don't see why with the suss you'd discount my spew over his process, esp, after Lock clearing me (I know you use lock too much, but at the time I didn't know) The issue with Monty is still valid imo. It's not something that's like is defensible so it's kind of unfair to keep harping on it, so I apologize, I was just sort of reiterating my read to Pizza.

(Shrug)

is correct. Idk anymore my exact reasoning behind everything I did days ago... wasnt this at a point where I'd reread only half the thread? I don't recall, doesnt matter now anyway. Kill me then kill xia and the game ends. Or kill Xia and the game ends a days earlier.

Boy do I hope now that Xia is actually the last mafia after all those posts

[Fredwood]

lol if you're scum,

[Slaan]

lol I never said MOnty is in my town core. I would put Monty squarely in my POE, the problem is addressing him with you around would just break my brain. Monty is literally in the exact same spot he's always been for me but with you preventing his lynch.

I still don't quite get this argument but we had this discussion before ^^

[Sooh]

Ok, so, somebody had a tantrum and left us again last night.

*shakes head*

But we will find a winner in this tournament!....eventually...

Anyway, pairs have been reshuffled and your friend who left was:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Fredwood,

You are Magnus Carlsen.



As the current world champion with placements not only in chess tournaments but also in "World's Sexiest Men" lists, you enjoy life to the fullest. You are also known for your sore attitude when losing games. Really, Magnus, that shouldn't be necessary! Your current rating is 2827.

You are a Vanilla Town.

[Slaan]

Slaan, you'd be okay with Xiahou/Csargo as two of the lynches remaining?

Just to clarify.

yep

Process.

I'll tell you in postgame how a scummy looking game can be read townie when you're townie. Don't have enough time left unless someone doesn't shoot me tonight.

I was in an endgame once with a guy who had pushed on scums, and a guy who pushed the wrong people a lot, and was suspected a lot.

Process is what helped me see he had real townie thoughts while trying to solve, and the other guy was just clearing hurdles.

Got both terms as part of my town solving method ever since that game over a year ago.

Your process is iffy.

You can look scummy and be a townie, but with a bad process like dropping reads or being inconsistent, having a defense of "I wouldn't do that as mafia", is effort, but still just clearing hurdles with a bad process.

I can't fix your process if it looks scummy but isn't, i can only identify if the process looks wrong to me.

Wait am I not being read because of that bad process? How can I then clear myself from that by now showing process? I mean for one I thought I did after I had completely reread the thread and two it doesnt invalidate the inconstistence that happened earlier...? But sure, lets talk after the game. Isnt important now anyway I think