Trump Thread

[Seamus Fermanagh]

He is a threat to our democracy and the world in general. I hope the Dems take the house next year so he can be impeached.

Nope. Just an asshat. More of a historical blip when all is said and done. Gives Chester Arthur a chance to get off of the bottom of the list of unmemorables.

[Montmorency]

Nope. Just an asshat. More of a historical blip when all is said and done. Gives Chester Arthur a chance to get off of the bottom of the list of unmemorables.

I don't see how you can be dismissive. The man himself is ignominious, but he represents a national crisis that will continue through all his term and will not end with its termination by whichever means.

Chester Arthur lived in an era of different government and political structures, and was at least a relatively decent man. "Unmemorable" is not equivalent to heinous.

[Strike For The South]

Nope. Just an asshat. More of a historical blip when all is said and done. Gives Chester Arthur a chance to get off of the bottom of the list of unmemorables.

This is wrong.

[Greyblades]

Nope. Just an asshat. More of a historical blip when all is said and done. Gives Chester Arthur a chance to get off of the bottom of the list of unmemorables.

I applaud the attempt to be the voice of reason but I'm afraid it's futile: this has become an echochamber; a cycle of raising eachother's spirits over forlorne hopes and then pushing eachother into rage over smokescreens.

It's sad, but trump derangement syndrome can only end when they want it to end. Psychological warfare experts will be studying this era for centuries to come.

[Husar]

I applaud the attempt to be the voice of reason but I'm afraid it's futile: this has become an echochamber; a cycle of raising eachother's spirits over forlorne hopes and then pushing eachother into rage over smokescreens.

It's sad, but trump derangement syndrome can only end when they want it to end. Psychological warfare experts will be studying this era for centuries to come.

You are very unclear once more. Who are "they"? What is "trump derangement syndrome"? What is an "echochamber"? And are you still supporting Trump like you did some months ago when you said he had achieved all his goals? Because your post could be interpreted several ways depending on all that.

[spmetla]

I applaud the attempt to be the voice of reason but I'm afraid it's futile: this has become an echochamber; a cycle of raising eachother's spirits over forlorne hopes and then pushing eachother into rage over smokescreens.

It's sad, but trump derangement syndrome can only end when they want it to end. Psychological warfare experts will be studying this era for centuries to come.

This is no echochamber, there's no shortage of opposing opinions. Just because most people see that an inept, unworldly, narcissist is unsuited for one of the most important political positions in the planet doesn't make it an echo-chamber. I'm quite conservative on a host of issues and rather hawkish too but he is one man that is wholly unsuited to the office he's in. He might just be an asshat but that type of person in such an important position is a threat to standing of the United States in the world as well as the stability of the post-WWII/post-coldwar world order.
As much as I dislike the even more extreme policies of Mike Pence I would much more prefer his mental stability and general competence than the current POTUS. Just to be clear I didn't vote for Hillary either, had to throw away my vote in protest with Gary Johnson.

As for derangement, if you're referring to our hopes that he's impeached, well that just that, a hope. He's got no shortage of shady people in his immediate periphery that have ties to Russia to include his immediate family members, in-laws and quite possibly himself if the Trump Tower Moscow bit is to be believed.

If he's not impeached I'd hope that at least the Republican establishment can see that the Trump wing of the party is not useful under their current 'big tent' arrangement and force them to create an actual Tea Party, Christian Values Party, or Trump Party instead of continuing the hijack of the Republican party by xenophobic protectionist simpletons in the vein of Sarah Palin and Donald Trump. Yes, they'd lose votes and seats but at least they'd have some principles I could once again support.

[Pannonian]

This is no echochamber, there's no shortage of opposing opinions. Just because most people see that an inept, unworldly, narcissist is unsuited for one of the most important political positions in the planet doesn't make it an echo-chamber. I'm quite conservative on a host of issues and rather hawkish too but he is one man that is wholly unsuited to the office he's in. He might just be an asshat but that type of person in such an important position is a threat to standing of the United States in the world as well as the stability of the post-WWII/post-coldwar world order.
As much as I dislike the even more extreme policies of Mike Pence I would much more prefer his mental stability and general competence than the current POTUS. Just to be clear I didn't vote for Hillary either, had to throw away my vote in protest with Gary Johnson.

As for derangement, if you're referring to our hopes that he's impeached, well that just that, a hope. He's got no shortage of shady people in his immediate periphery that have ties to Russia to include his immediate family members, in-laws and quite possibly himself if the Trump Tower Moscow bit is to be believed.

If he's not impeached I'd hope that at least the Republican establishment can see that the Trump wing of the party is not useful under their current 'big tent' arrangement and force them to create an actual Tea Party, Christian Values Party, or Trump Party instead of continuing the hijack of the Republican party by xenophobic protectionist simpletons in the vein of Sarah Palin and Donald Trump. Yes, they'd lose votes and seats but at least they'd have some principles I could once again support.

Don't know the truth of that as yet, but there seem to be Russian links with social media accounts peddling fake news in the recent Catalan crisis. And of course, pretty strong evidence for such accounts doing the same for Brexit (the most followed such account began life as a pro-Russia account during the Ukraine crisis in 2013, with memes that resurfaced in the Trump election, but has spent most of its life as a supposedly British account peddling pro-UKIP, pro-Brexit and anti-immigration stories). With so many people getting their news from social media without taking trouble to verify their sources, Russia and Putin must be laughing their heads off at the effectiveness of their low budget foreign policy and economic and democratic sabotage.

[Gilrandir]

With so many people getting their news from social media without taking trouble to verify their sources, Russia and Putin must be laughing their heads off at the effectiveness of their low budget foreign policy and economic and democratic sabotage.

Not sure it is as low as you think.

[Beskar]

This is no echochamber, there's no shortage of opposing opinions. Just because most people see that an inept, unworldly, narcissist is unsuited for one of the most important political positions in the planet doesn't make it an echo-chamber...

As @Greyblades is a fellow EU4 player and plays England a lot, I will put it this way... Trump is King Henry VI Lancaster on the 1444 Start in terms of Ruler Stats.

[Montmorency]

If America is infected with HIV, Trump would be the AIDS.

Take your retrovirals, people. Don't be full of AIDS.

[Shaka_Khan]

I never saw Trump talk like this before.

[Greyblades]

This is no echochamber, there's no shortage of opposing opinions.

The closest thing to a dissenting opinion I have seen in months think's he's merely an asshat, you may believe it is justified but over the last few months this thread has hosted the diversity of opinion of a momentumn rally.

As for derangement, if you're referring to our hopes that he's impeached, well that just that, a hope.

I was referring to the person I consider the most wise person here declaring trump to be a threat to democracy. Now I have the next comparing him to AIDS.

Hope is one thing, desperate as it may be after a year of empty grasping, gross hyperbole is another. This thread is turning into a shrine to peer pressure and confirmation bias, it is frankly a miracle noone has been so insipid as to start declaring Dubya preferable. Yet anyway.

As Greyblades is a fellow EU4 player and plays England a lot, I will put it this way... Trump is King Henry VI Lancaster on the 1444 Start in terms of Ruler Stats.

EU4 is a game company's evaluation of 500 years of history's rulers, they include failures that make bush look like an augustus and suceess that makes FDR look a Commodus. Henry VI earned his 0/0/0 by doing whatever he was told and spending months at a time literally catatonic, not even Carlos II hapsburg or Lois XVI bourbon merited that little.

By the standards of 1455 to 1836 Trump thus far would be in the league of Henry VIII; 3/3/4

[Montmorency]

The closest thing to a dissenting opinion that wasnt me just think's he's merely an asshat, over the last few months this thread has hosted the diversity of opinion of a momentumn rally.

Why do you think that diversity of opinion on Trump's character or fitness has merit, rather than being a sign of moral and intellectual defect? Do you actually have anything to offer on the subject besides indistinct contrarianism and water-carrying?

it is frankly a mircale noone has been so insipid as to start declaring Dubya preferable. Yet anyway.

George W. Bush's tenure is one of the only things keeping Trump from claiming the title of "Worst POTUS".

He long ago claimed "Worst Candidate", however.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Why do you think that diversity of opinion on Trump's character or fitness has merit, rather than being a sign of moral and intellectual defect? Do you actually have anything to offer on the subject besides indistinct contrarianism and water-carrying?

There is no point Monty. He might as well be a paid Russian troll.

[Husar]

The closest thing to a dissenting opinion I have seen in months think's he's merely an asshat, you may believe it is justified but over the last few months this thread has hosted the diversity of opinion of a momentumn rally.

So what?
Spmetla has already explained that maybe Trump is so bad that only very few people like him anymore and most of them aren't here.
Would it make you happy if I posted dissenting opinions about how great Trump is or what do you want?

You seem to be saying that somehow the thread is terrible because everybody in here dislikes Trump. Have you ever considered that maybe the reason this is the only thread where pretty much everyone agrees is that Trump is just terrible or can that not be the case because it does not fit your opinion?

And if you have a differing opinion, why not provide it as Monty says? Don'te be lazy, break up the echo chamber yourself!

What exactly is your point?

[spmetla]

The closest thing to a dissenting opinion I have seen in months think's he's merely an asshat, you may believe it is justified but over the last few months this thread has hosted the diversity of opinion of a momentumn rally.

That's largely because most people that were on the fence or supported him because of the Republican brand have seen him for what he's worth.

He was largely elected because he was supposed to be a no nonsense business man that would use that savvy to help the economy, help the standing of the US via diplomacy and also because he was not the Clinton witch.
He's instead undermined NATO by reducing his understanding and support to simple transnational accounting. Left the TPP which was supposed to help us check China's economic clout. He openly sides with every autocrat around, has yet to criticize Putin for anything. Looking at how his trip to Asia has gone he's made it obvious he's no negotiator or deal maker, he just wants to be courted and feel important.

He's made it plain for all to see that he's actually not used to having to do anything. If any legislation requires more than his vocal support he doesn't seem to do anything to push for it's being passed.

His threat to democracy is evident in his on going war with the press. Yes, they don't like him. He is however a compulsive liar and his constant contradictions, statements in the realm of fantasy, and undermining of the very people he picked to do his work for him undermine our democracy. He as a key negotiator should know how to schmooze people, instead he feuds with Mitch and Ryan, insults respectable people like Mccain making our system of checks and balances a deadlock instead.
Additionally, his complete and utter lack of understanding of how the rule of law works in this country undermines peoples faith in that branch as well. How dare his criticize the federal courts and suggest Gitmo and a military tribunal for a terror suspect instead when the last 15 years of war have shown how ineffective Gitmo and tribunals are.

Believe me, I'd love the POTUS to make the economy grow, use a mix of hard and soft power to ensure the stability of the world order. I actually support several of the policies he supposedly is pushing but I've yet to see infrastructure pushed, I've yet to see him be tough of China, I've yet to see sensible immigration that isn't based on religion.

He's made it evident that the Trump brand is the most important thing to him which is terrible to me because the most important thing should be the brand of the United States which he drags through the mud almost every time he opens his mouth.

Hope is one thing, desperate as it may be after a year of empty grasping, gross hyperbole is another. This thread is turning into a shrine to peer pressure and confirmation bias, it is frankly a miracle noone has been so insipid as to start declaring Dubya preferable. Yet anyway.

Well if he starts two endless wars and takes a growing economy and puts it into recession then he'd get to take a seat with Dubya as well. This tax plan has me worried because it seems to hinge on rosy economic forecasts which if aren't even close to attain will massively skyrocket the debt even more (to think that George W. inherited an economy with a budget surplus and ruined it still pisses me off).

By the standards of 1455 to 1836 Trump thus far would be in the league of Henry VIII; 3/3/4

I think his stats are more in the realm of 2/1/1. I've seen nothing that shown him having any military or diplomatic competence, undermining our military alliance and trade agreements wouldn't point to diplomatic skill. The two is really only there from his business experience which would transfer over to EU4's administrative though looking at the amount of unfilled vacancies perhaps that should be a 1 as well. What makes you think he's got military competency? He doesn't even know where his fleets (or should I say Armadas) are sailing though that would be the diplomatic side in EU4.
At least he's got Mattis boosting the Military (level 3), Tillerson isn't allowed to do much so he's base 1 level and Gary Cohn is competent though I personally don't like the tax plan (level 2 advisor).

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I think little of his leadership so far. He was elected to 'drain the swamp' and get things done for American business and the working class.

So far, unlike Reagan, unlike Bush41, unlike Newt and the GOP House of 1995, Trump cannot get any meaningful legislation furthering his agenda through Congress. This INCLUDES an infrastructure improvement bill that everybody wants, nobody opposes, the country needs, and which will have enough bits of pork included to make it stall-proof. Not even in committee yet. We have one relatively conservative judge added to the SCOTUS. That's it.

The one thing Washington seems to agree on right now is the key thing is to sabotage anything useful to Trump's agenda. The GOP establishment will gladly trade lost seats in Nov18 in both houses in order to hang the loss on Trump's reputation and make it unlikely for him to repeat in 2020. The Dems agree with this whole-heartedly as well, since they have nada for meaningful national candidates at the moment and it helps them regain strength in Congress and ramp up for 2020. Trump has managed to bring bipartisanship back to DC by uniting them with the one common goal they can all believe in -- dumping Trump.

All this having been said, Trump simply isn't the ghastly horror story his critics make him out to be. He's just another "outsider" candidate who couldn't manage the Washington game well enough to achieve much. He won't be written of as one of our worst Presidents like Bucannnan or Harding or Grant, or our most ethically challenged like Nixon and he certainly won't join the pantheon of Presidential 'heroes."

This too shall pass.