Page 72 of 97 FirstFirst ... 226268697071727374757682 ... LastLast
Results 2,131 to 2,160 of 2899

Thread: Trump Thread

  1. #2131
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Kona, Hawaii
    Posts
    3,015

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    The current mix in the HoR and Senate are not all Trump fans by any means. To date, Trump has held a significant wedge of the GOP electorate. If that erodes, or if the public opinion in the rest of society ramps up strongly against Trump, then those who are less than happy with his leadership of the party get a lot of political cover to act against him.

    So far, Trump's core group has proven impervious to criticism of Trump. That may change now that there is actual evidence that cannot reasonably be spun as partisan attack.
    What worries me is that his significant wedge will not budge in their opinion. I'm sure you've also talked to die hard Trump supporters that don't care what the president does legally or illegally so long as he pushes MAGA, harsh immigration rules, and appears to support US manufacturing. All that don't support Trump are RINOs or 'Never Trumpers' and therefore party of the "deep state" they oppose. The tribalism of US politics at the moment certainly has made this wing of the Republicans see anyone that doesn't support their man as the lib-tard enemy.

    Sadly it will take the mid-term elections to change things and as its been pointed out it is unlikely that the Democrats will take over and begin to check the President's excesses or start impeachment proceedings.

    1. Accepting a pardon is tantamount to admission of guilt, and the pardoned individual may thereupon be subpoenaed to provide testimony under oath, where refusal would subject them to further criminal liability unless they can make a good case that the testimony would put the pardonee at risk of self-incrimination of crimes beyond those pardoned (5th Amendment).
    It would be interesting to see that happen. In the case of Manafort I don't see how they would force him to make a testimony, he's weaseled out of admitting anything and in the case of a pardon would probably be re-hired by Trump so they can try and put him and his testimony under the blanket of executive privilege or an NDA (like in the Omarosa getting offered that re-election campaign position).

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Four stage strategy from Yes, Minister:
    Stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
    Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  2. #2132

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spmetla View Post
    It would be interesting to see that happen. In the case of Manafort I don't see how they would force him to make a testimony, he's weaseled out of admitting anything and in the case of a pardon would probably be re-hired by Trump so they can try and put him and his testimony under the blanket of executive privilege or an NDA (like in the Omarosa getting offered that re-election campaign position).
    It would very likely be an obvious contrived abusive privilege claim, and its strength would then depend on the willingness of a judge to call the admin's bluff. Not necessarily difficult, hopefully less so as time goes on.

    Reporting I've seen, not bothering to look up an example, said that Trump universally uses terrible legal documentation in his private business (Exhibit A: Stormy Daniels & David Dennison) and his NDAs are all copy-pasted or something. Worst attorneys.

    You can't use NDAs to shield criminal activity, certainly not to shield past crimes in the furtherance of continuing crimes. Max-tier corruption, and it just wouldn't hold up under a second's scrutiny.

    More particularly - and I'm surprised you didn't know this as a public servant government mooch - NDAs are largely unconstitutional and illegal in federal government work. Classified information is a separate system, content-based and non person-based. Like many of the EULAs you see floating around: unenforceable.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 08-22-2018 at 23:27.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  3. #2133

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    It's unspeakably funny how malignant and incompetent this administration is.

    Facing down a formidable enemy feels valorous. Everything related to Trump is squalid.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  4. #2134
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Moral High Grounds
    Posts
    9,285

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    The State of New York is going to take down his family, foundation, and company, his pardon power means nothing with state-level charges. Trump was all happy when Schneidermann went down, but he got Underwood as a prize.
    The .Org's MTW Reference Guide Wiki - now taking comments, corrections, suggestions, and submissions

    If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
    Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat

    "Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur

  5. #2135

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    One more obvious impediment in pardoning Manafort: pardoning your co-conspirator would be obstruction of justice. On the other hand, obstruction of justice is Trump's primary play. Add it to the other hundred charges.


    Here are two pessimistic articles detailing why Trump committing campaign finance violations is not nearly enough to bring him down:

    1. Impeachment is for high crimes and misdemeanours that threaten the integrity of our way of life and our system of government. Relatively petty violations, even those classified as felonies like these blackmail payoffs (no word on whether blackmailability in itself is impeachable) do not quite rise to that level. At least, not alone. However, evoked in conjunction with all the other articles of impeachment Trump is accumulating, it could be supplementary.

    https://impeachableoffenses.net/2018...w-maybe-later/

    Second, therefore an impeachment on grounds of corrupting the electorate would have to be based on behavior so far outside the elastic norms of modern political conduct that it both demonstrated the successful candidate’s contempt for the democratic process and put the fair operation of democracy at risk.

    Mistress-payoff election violations are too inconsequential (and too obvious a parallel to the Clinton debacle). To figure at all in a serious impeachment case, those payoffs would have to be part of a larger pattern of illegal or plainly illegitimate conduct designed to give the candidate an unfair advantage or to deceive the electorate. Better yet, they should be part of a pattern of conduct that does not merely give advantage to a candidate, but places him under an obligation to some person or entity or foreign power whose interests are inimical to the United States. In short, all the stuff that Robert Mueller is looking into.

    2. Thousands of rich fuckers get away with this type all the time. Trump, Manafort, Cohen, none of them would be at risk if they had just lost the damned election. The Trump administration's operation reminds us of how badly we have tended to handle white-collar crime, especially since 9/11 and the Enron blowback led to deep cuts in Justice Department funding for pursuing financial crimes. Why invest massive resources in constructing difficult documentary cases and making powerful enemies in the meantime, when you could be "tough on crime", "tough on drugs", "tough on terrorism" instead?

    Recall that some of Manafort's fraud was first uncovered by a citizen investigator looking through publicly-available docs and filings. The wealthy are that blatant about it.

    In an era when Citizens United has licensed unlimited shady plutocratic kabuki, Trump discharging 6-figure payouts seems like an almost quaint violation, like something from the 1920s. (Actually, a lot of things seem like the 1920s these days...)

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...iolations.html

    On Tuesday, Michael Cohen told a federal court that he had committed multiple campaign finance violations at Donald Trump’s behest. Such testimony would be more than enough to secure a felony indictment against Trump — if all Americans were actually equal before the law.
    In post–Citizens United America, “campaign finance regulations” are something close to a contradiction in terms. When billionaires and corporations can pour unlimited, anonymous money into partisan political messaging and organization (so long as they don’t advertise their coordination with political candidates), it makes little difference whether donors honor the remaining limits on direct contributions. The public has an interest in limiting concentrated capital’s influence on elections; it has little interest in ensuring that concentrated capital follows a set of arbitrary rules whilst exercising nigh-unlimited (at least, in legal terms) influence over elections. Separately, the fact that Cohen’s plea deal substantiates the allegation that Trump committed adultery with multiple porn stars tells the “moral majority” nothing that it did not already know.
    The second answer is that the norm against letting powerful Americans escape culpability for crimes — solely because they are powerful — has been dead for several decades now. In fact, at this point, holding Trump accountable for his crimes would actually constitute a violation of our nation’s political norms.
    Didn't I tell you about Nixon?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    In the summer of 1968, as biographer John A. Farrell has demonstrated, Republican nominee Richard Nixon and his aides actively sabotaged efforts by Lyndon Johnson’s administration to negotiate an end to the Vietnam War. They got away with it, prolonging a war that wound up killing more than a million people in the process. It’s barely even on the list of Nixonian wrongdoing that people remember. Henry Kissinger was at the time a Johnson adviser leaking information for Nixon to use in his efforts. Today he remains a broadly respected elder statesman, even in Democratic administrations.



    It wasn’t even two decades later that the next Republican administration conspired with a foreign government, namely Iran’s. This time, the actions weren’t just horrendously immoral but illegal as well; elongating the Vietnam War was, alas, not a crime, but funding the Contras with Iranian arms deal money was. So was lying to Congress about it. Fourteen members of Reagan’s administration were indicted, and 11 were convicted.



    It didn’t matter. Before leaving office, President George H.W. Bush pardoned six people involved, all high-ranking policy officials like Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane, Assistant Secretary of State Elliott Abrams, and CIA covert ops director Clair George…Abrams, whose far worse transgressions in the Reagan years involved his support for El Salvador’s brutal military dictatorship and his efforts to cover up the El Mozote massacre, worked as a senior National Security Council official for the entirety of the George W. Bush administration.


    Neither Trump’s hush payments to Stormy Daniels — nor his hypothetical complicity with Russia’s cyber-attack on the DNC — got hundreds of thousands of people killed. Nor did they involve secretly arming right-wing militias whose affinity for butchering civilians had already alienated the U.S. Congress, or abetting the cover-up of historic war crimes in El Salvador. Without question, if the president colluded with Russian intervention in the 2016 election, then he is guilty of undermining the integrity of American democracy for political gain. But so were Nixon and Reagan. And the latter’s assault on both rule of law and democratic integrity in the U.S. weren’t lost on his contemporaries. In 1991 The New Yorker’s Mark Danner wrote the following elegy for the American republic:

    Perhaps the most disquieting legacy of Iran-Contra, in which extremely serious political crimes were exposed and then left largely unexorcised, is a kind of pervasive moral lassitude, in which charges that the integrity of the 1980 Presidential election was compromised with the help of the Iranian government evoke an almost bored reaction. It now appears that the charges will be left to linger, unanswered and uninvestigated, because no one with any power sees it to be in his personal political interest to confront them. The dictum that we live in a nation of laws can also be understood ironically-that ours has become a nation only of laws. For laws without the will to enforce them and confront the consequences remain simply words on paper.

    Trump’s immediate Republican predecessor reaffirmed Danner’s insight, by overseeing the systematic violation of both domestic and international laws against military torture — while Trump’s immediate Democratic predecessor did so by refusing to bring any of that criminal conspiracy’s masterminds to justice.

    This culture of elite impunity has not been confined to the political realm. America’s economic elites avail themselves of its benefits even more routinely. The 2008 financial crisis revealed myriad acts of financial and foreclosure fraud — almost none of which was criminally prosecuted. Barack Obama’s Justice Department explicitly endorsed the principle that some individuals and institutions are simply too economically powerful to be bound by criminal law, when it decided not to prosecute HSBC for laundering hundreds of millions in drug money.

    Meanwhile, America’s garden-variety plutocrats escape punishment for white-collar crimes on a daily basis, and pay only a small fraction of the taxes that they owe Uncle Sam. Our government has responded to this well-known phenomenon by spending orders of magnitude more on punishing misdemeanor immigration offenses than policing white-collar felonies, and making international cooperation on combating tax havens one of its lowest diplomatic priorities (far below, say, making life-saving pharmaceuticals more expensive for people in the developed world).
    Last edited by Montmorency; 08-24-2018 at 16:14.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  6. #2136

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    RIP McCain

    Member thankful for this post:



  7. #2137

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    And so with him, perhaps more than figuratively, dies American Conservatism as we knew it in the Twentieth Century. A major loss for this country and a painful reminder of the ideological contrasts in vogue in the Twenty First.


  8. #2138
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,453

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    And so with him, perhaps more than figuratively, dies American Conservatism as we knew it in the Twentieth Century. A major loss for this country and a painful reminder of the ideological contrasts in vogue in the Twenty First.
    Perhaps so, though I hope you are wrong.

    Far too much of conservatism in the USA is too rabid these days. Sen. McCain was to my lights a darn good conservative. I did, on occasion, disagree with him but I cannot recall ever viewing him with disrespect. Glad I got to shake his hand once, back when he was a new senator.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  9. #2139

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Overheard from a Trump fan:

    'Small business owners are going to hate Trump because he just forced Mexico to pay its workers a minimum wage of $16, which will attract all the Latin American immigrant labor to Mexico and drive wage inflation in the United States. Trump is for the common people!'


    Of course, none of that is remotely true.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  10. #2140
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,453

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Florida Dems just nominated a Sanders-policy-type chap (not on all issues, but on most) to be their gubernatorial candidate.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  11. #2141
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,369

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    And so with him, perhaps more than figuratively, dies American Conservatism as we knew it in the Twentieth Century. A major loss for this country and a painful reminder of the ideological contrasts in vogue in the Twenty First.
    I mean I would be happy with getting rid of forever war and replacing it with health care.

    In the state of Arizona your medical debt goes through your estate and then gets passed to your next of kin. Brain cancer is expensive.

    I won't speak ill of the man but it is absolutely unconscionable that this is the best thing we can come up with.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

    Member thankful for this post:



  12. #2142
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,369

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    The grandstanding around McCains death has lead me to some reflecting.

    How much does a persons political intersect with their personal? McCain was a cornerstone in post cold war American foreign policy. This foreign policy has wrought some serious and lasting horrors in the globe. As much as blame can be assigned, how much of it goes to him? The people that voted for him? The citizenry at large? The solider who enacted the violence? The person who opposed but did nothing to stop it?

    I am not surprised by the hagiography, it happens to everyone save the most heinous among us. Sainthood happens shortly after death. I am not sure it means anything beyond a courtesy. Don't give your opponents something to harp on, no need to create your own problem. Perhaps the most self centered may see an opportunity. Others may simply pay their respects as politeness, not able to conjure feeling on way or another.

    The attacks on him really don't move my meter any either. There are plenty of people and reasons to not like him. It would be a pointless masturbation for these people to hide the feelings they had simply because he is no longer drawing breath. Speak your truth and all that. Of course these people have their own blood soaked hereos and ideas, it is just a different blood. Tribalism, politics and all that.

    Maybe it is the inexorable condition of man that in a world fueled by power, justice can be enacted but never fully realized? Or perhaps a limited vision justice can be realized but only at the expense of other limited justices?

    What really separates John McCain from anyone else? What makes him worthy of praise? Perhaps more frightening, with the institutions we have in place, did John McCain matter all that much? Or was he simply just another cog? Perhaps the most frightening, with the violence needed to tear down these institutions, will we ever break free of them?
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

    Members thankful for this post (2):

    HusarTuuvi 


  13. #2143
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Did he not stop the GOP from dismantling the ACA when the vote hinged on him or something like that?
    I guess he did both good and bad and sometimes people also change a little or a little bit more over time.
    Sometimes even to the better. Maybe the later McCain was a better and wiser man than the early one?
    I don't really know, I'm just thinking out loud.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  14. #2144

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    I mean I would be happy with getting rid of forever war and replacing it with health care.

    In the state of Arizona your medical debt goes through your estate and then gets passed to your next of kin. Brain cancer is expensive.

    I won't speak ill of the man but it is absolutely unconscionable that this is the best thing we can come up with.
    Sometimes you are not respecting the man because of his results, but because of the way he played the game. No matter how you summarize his life, he played with heart and he played with conviction. Do you believe a theoretical 6 term Sen. Ted Cruz would elicit the same reaction?


  15. #2145
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,369

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Sometimes you are not respecting the man because of his results, but because of the way he played the game. No matter how you summarize his life, he played with heart and he played with conviction. Do you believe a theoretical 6 term Sen. Ted Cruz would elicit the same reaction?
    I mean it's a game if your house isn't getting thousands of pounds of ordinance on it. I don't really have a hot take on him dying other than the over-the-topness of it all further normalizes an American policy based on brute force.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...rt-war-716416/
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  16. #2146

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    I mean it's a game if your house isn't getting thousands of pounds of ordinance on it. I don't really have a hot take on him dying other than the over-the-topness of it all further normalizes an American policy based on brute force.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...rt-war-716416/
    Hot takes are disrespectful to the departed. Cold takes are acceptable. (Wait for the body to get cold in the grave.)



    Anyway, following my habit of posting only the funniest Trump tidbits, here is another book published in the vein of 'Trump as mad tyrant despised and derided by his underlings':

    Many of the feuds and daily clashes have been well documented, but the picture painted by Trump's confidants, senior staff and Cabinet officials reveal that many of them see an even more alarming situation — worse than previously known or understood. Woodward offers a devastating portrait of a dysfunctional Trump White House, detailing how senior aides — both current and former Trump administration officials — grew exasperated with the President and increasingly worried about his erratic behavior, ignorance and penchant for lying.

    Chief of staff John Kelly describes Trump as an "idiot" and "unhinged," Woodward reports. Defense Secretary James Mattis describes Trump as having the understanding of "a fifth or sixth grader." And Trump's former personal lawyer John Dowd describes the President as "a fucking liar," telling Trump he would end up in an "orange jump suit" if he testified to special counsel Robert Mueller.

    "He's an idiot. It's pointless to try to convince him of anything. He's gone off the rails. We're in crazytown," Kelly is quoted as saying at a staff meeting in his office. "I don't even know why any of us are here. This is the worst job I've ever had."
    Then resign, John Kelly you deportacious opportunist piece of crap.

    After Trump's Charlottesville, Virginia, controversy, in which he failed to condemn white supremacists, Cohn tried to resign but was instead dressed down by Trump and accused of "treason."

    Kelly, who is Trump's current chief of staff, told Cohn afterward, according to notes Cohn made of the exchange: "If that was me, I would have taken that resignation letter and shoved it up his ass six different times."
    THEN RESIGN

    The book opens with a dramatic scene. Former chief economic adviser Gary Cohn saw a draft letter he considered dangerous to national security on the Oval Office desk.

    The letter would have withdrawn the US from a critical trade agreement with South Korea. Trump's aides feared the fallout could jeopardize a top-secret national security program: the ability to detect a North Korean missile launch within just seven seconds.
    Woodward reports Cohn was "appalled" that Trump might sign the letter. "I stole it off his desk," Cohn told an associate. "I wouldn't let him see it. He's never going to see that document. Got to protect the country."

    Cohn was not alone. Former staff secretary Rob Porter worked with Cohn and used the same tactic on multiple occasions, Woodward writes. In addition to literally stealing or hiding documents from Trump's desk, they sought to stall and delay decisions or distract Trump from orders they thought would endanger national security.
    This is what they call "Mickey Mouse bullshit".

    "A third of my job was trying to react to some of the really dangerous ideas that he had and try to give him reasons to believe that maybe they weren't such good ideas," said Porter, who as staff secretary handled the flow of presidential papers until he quit amid domestic violence allegations. He and others acted with the acquiescence of former chief of staff Reince Priebus, Woodward reports.

    Woodward describes repeated attempts to bypass Trump as "no less than an administrative coup d'état."
    The deep state is coming from inside the Oval Office!

    In one revelatory anecdote, Woodward describes a scene in the White House residence. Trump's lawyer, convinced the President would perjure himself, put Trump through a test — a practice interview for the one he might have with Mueller. Trump failed, according to Dowd, but the President still insisted he should testify.

    Woodward writes that Dowd saw the "full nightmare" of a potential Mueller interview, and felt Trump acted like an "aggrieved Shakespearean king."
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DfVBhFpVMAA98_i.jpg 
Views:	136 
Size:	111.1 KB 
ID:	21087

    Then, in an even more remarkable move, Dowd and Trump's current personal attorney Jay Sekulowwent to Mueller's office and re-enacted the mock interview. Their goal: to argue that Trump couldn't possibly testify because he was incapable of telling the truth.
    "He just made something up. That's his nature," Dowd said to Mueller.
    A man whose nature leaves him literally incapable of telling the truth should be institutionalized, not elevated to high office.

    Despite Dowd's efforts, Trump continued to insist he could testify. "I think the President of the United States cannot be seen taking the fifth," Trump said.
    Dowd's argument was stark: "There's no way you can get through these. ... Don't testify. It's either that or an orange jump suit."
    What he couldn't say to Trump, according to Woodward, was what Dowd believed to be true: "You're a fucking liar."
    Look, this is a fount to be sure. Enough quotes for now, there's too much. Here's a recording of Woodward complaining to Trump about being stonewalled in trying to get an interview with him.

    "This guy is mentally retarded," Trump said of Sessions. "He's this dumb southerner," Trump told Porter, mocking Sessions by feigning a southern accent.
    Ok, I can't even


    Woodward's book relies on hundreds of hours of taped interviews and dozens of sources in Trump's inner circle, as well as documents, files, diaries and memos, including a note handwritten by Trump himself.
    It's one thing for a sleazy operator like Michael Wolff to schmooze his way into Trump's inner circle, but apparently these schmucks let legendary Nixon-era muckraker Bob Woodward in just as deep! Contemporaneous with or AFTER the Wolff debacle unfolded. Oy. Puts the massive incompetence of the sequel-trilogy First Order into new perspective.


    BTW, of course the White House has been attacking the book and its author (Woodward). Yet check out this Donald Trump tweet from 2013:

    Only the Obama WH can get away with attacking Bob Woodward.

    4:04 PM - Mar 1, 2013
    I lol. I die. I lol again.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 09-04-2018 at 23:34.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Member thankful for this post:

    Husar 


  17. #2147

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Anonymous White House "senior official" publishes op-ed describing "heroic" collective sub-rosa effort in the executive branch to neutralize Trump's derangement and malice by misdirecting and subverting his will.

    They considered engaging the 25th Amendment provisions at some point(s) but have decided that they don't want a "constitutional crisis" on their hands.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/o...esistance.html

    I urge everyone to read this piece and see how it leaves you feeling. It isn't long.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

    It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

    The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

    I would know. I am one of them.

    To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

    But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

    That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

    The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.

    Although he was elected as a Republican, the president shows little affinity for ideals long espoused by conservatives: free minds, free markets and free people. At best, he has invoked these ideals in scripted settings. At worst, he has attacked them outright.

    In addition to his mass-marketing of the notion that the press is the “enemy of the people,” President Trump’s impulses are generally anti-trade and anti-democratic.

    Don’t get me wrong. There are bright spots that the near-ceaseless negative coverage of the administration fails to capture: effective deregulation, historic tax reform, a more robust military and more.

    But these successes have come despite — not because of — the president’s leadership style, which is impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.

    From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.

    Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.

    “There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.

    The erratic behavior would be more concerning if it weren’t for unsung heroes in and around the White House. Some of his aides have been cast as villains by the media. But in private, they have gone to great lengths to keep bad decisions contained to the West Wing, though they are clearly not always successful.

    It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.

    The result is a two-track presidency.

    Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

    Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.

    On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.

    This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state. It’s the work of the steady state.

    Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right direction until — one way or another — it’s over.

    The bigger concern is not what Mr. Trump has done to the presidency but rather what we as a nation have allowed him to do to us. We have sunk low with him and allowed our discourse to be stripped of civility.

    Senator John McCain put it best in his farewell letter. All Americans should heed his words and break free of the tribalism trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

    We may no longer have Senator McCain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue. Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.

    There is a quiet resistance within the administration of people choosing to put country first. But the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one: Americans.


    Since the release of the op-ed, "The phrase “The sleeper cells have awoken” circulated on text messages among aides and outside allies.

    “It’s like the horror movies when everyone realizes the call is coming from inside the house,” said one former White House official in close contact with former co-workers."



    Republican appointed officials are publicly bragging about having orchestrated a semi-soft coup against the unfit and illegitimate President of the United States - of their own party! - all in the name of maintaining his place in office to give cover to furthering their ridiculously-destructive agenda - and are asking to be congratulated for it.

    The Republican Party may prove to be the greatest existential threat ever to confront the country. God damn them all.

    There is only one epithet in all the ancestral language strong enough to impute the filth of being in Trump and his calamitous cacotopic cabal:




    Let it be heard.


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  18. #2148
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    That article basically says that top officials in the administration haven't lost track of neoliberal policies and are continuously working to correct the president whenever he actually threatens the dictatorship of the "markets".


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  19. #2149

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    That article basically says that top officials in the administration haven't lost track of neoliberal policies and are continuously working to correct the president whenever he actually threatens the dictatorship of the "markets".
    The President doesn't do much to threaten the dictatorship of the markets, his willy-nilly tariffs and other economic policies at worst make one set of rich people a bit poorer and another set (including his friends and family) a little richer.

    These people don't oppose Trump's agenda so much as his presentation and extreme incompetence as a person. So they subvert our institutions in order to make Trump more secure, you see that? More secure. So that they can keep playing in the halls of power. Even as they admit Trump is unfit and a threat. And to top it all off they haven't even been good at it, Trump having purged his admin of key opponents and thrown off his fetters throughout 2018.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  20. #2150
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    The President doesn't do much to threaten the dictatorship of the markets, his willy-nilly tariffs and other economic policies at worst make one set of rich people a bit poorer and another set (including his friends and family) a little richer.

    These people don't oppose Trump's agenda so much as his presentation and extreme incompetence as a person. So they subvert our institutions in order to make Trump more secure, you see that? More secure. So that they can keep playing in the halls of power. Even as they admit Trump is unfit and a threat. And to top it all off they haven't even been good at it, Trump having purged his admin of key opponents and thrown off his fetters throughout 2018.
    I wasn't saying he's a socialist, just that the article is only really reassuring if you share the ideals of these people who essentially take power into their own hands. It's even worse than what I think I said when he announced his cabinet, he's giving the lobbyists government power.

    It's like the government is run by rogue ministers with corporate interests and whoever slimebag wrote that is trying to sell it as a great idea and asking people to join their efforts...


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  21. #2151
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,453

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    @Montmorency: Loved the sig picture


    As to staff undermining the President in some areas:


    Some of this happens, I suspect, in all Presidencies. An administration is not a monolith with one person issuing commands from on high. At a minimum, no single person could make that many decisions in a single day on so many subjects. I do not know if I would label it a "soft coup."


    In the case of this administration, efforts to tone down some of the inanity would only be beneficial. And I suspect that this particular POTUS needs significantly more "editing" than most.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  22. #2152
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Moral High Grounds
    Posts
    9,285

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Anonymous White House "senior official" publishes op-ed describing "heroic" collective sub-rosa effort in the executive branch to neutralize Trump's derangement and malice by misdirecting and subverting his will.

    They considered engaging the 25th Amendment provisions at some point(s) but have decided that they don't want a "constitutional crisis" on their hands.
    It wouldn't be a "constitutional crisis", it's in the Constitution. They just know they wouldn't get the 2/3rds vote from Congress when Trump objects.

    As for the rest, it's establishment Republicans trying to do damage control and riding it out while getting as much through before the inevitable collapse. Once the Democrats get subpoena power, the resulting scandals and convictions could very well end the GOP as a party.
    The .Org's MTW Reference Guide Wiki - now taking comments, corrections, suggestions, and submissions

    If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
    Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat

    "Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  23. #2153

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    @Montmorency: Loved the sig picture


    As to staff undermining the President in some areas:


    Some of this happens, I suspect, in all Presidencies. An administration is not a monolith with one person issuing commands from on high. At a minimum, no single person could make that many decisions in a single day on so many subjects. I do not know if I would label it a "soft coup."


    In the case of this administration, efforts to tone down some of the inanity would only be beneficial. And I suspect that this particular POTUS needs significantly more "editing" than most.
    I called it semi-soft, because they basically failed (tariffs, Trump's demands to be acceded despotic stature, compatriots getting fired...)

    The gloating and grandstanding over sedition is new, and grating. It would have been sufficient to collapse a government in some eras (now it's the opposite).

    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    I wasn't saying he's a socialist, just that the article is only really reassuring if you share the ideals of these people who essentially take power into their own hands. It's even worse than what I think I said when he announced his cabinet, he's giving the lobbyists government power.

    It's like the government is run by rogue ministers with corporate interests and whoever slimebag wrote that is trying to sell it as a great idea and asking people to join their efforts...
    Yes, and what drone said. They're cowardly opportunists who want to be met coming off the sinking ship with job offers and book deals.

    "I Am Willing to Sacrifice Anything to Protect Our Democracy, Up to But Not Including Losing an Election or Giving Up Literally Any Policy That I Support: A Hero's Story"

    But let me break down what these "steady-state" people are doing:

    1. We subvert the elected authority and the norms of American government, because the President is a dangerous idiot.
    2. The President is also subverting the norms of American government in a fascist direction, because that's his personality and because it's his only strategy for political survival. America is in crisis.
    3. However, the 25th Amendment, mass resignations, testimony before Congress, are all out of the question because that would mean a "constitutional crisis" (and our jobs).
    4. We can't do much in fact, nor do we really want to rock the boat while looting and/or gutting the government, but sometimes we can steal papers off the President's desk! And he won't even notice!
    5. Actually, it turns out we need Trump's base to stay in power so we'll let him turn America into Hungary or Turkey if it means tax cuts and federal judge appointments.
    6. bla bla unity, freedom, Murica, bla bla. We left a two-star Yelp review on the White House! Praise us for our heroism.

    Basically, 'we can't leave Trump because that would mean abandoning all the parts of his agenda that we like': they are the conservative German elites of the early 1930s, the smug daisies.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 09-06-2018 at 22:42.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Member thankful for this post:

    Husar 


  24. #2154
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Taplow, UK
    Posts
    8,690
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Even if all those who disagreed resigned, there would be enough that remained to continue the process. I'm sure that there is a mass of self-interest going on here, but given that the staff do not have the power to change what is going on, all they can do is wait until either Congress grow some balls or his handpicked sycophants in the Cabinet do (unlikely - they've already sold out as far as they can);else the Electorate. Donald has the power to do a large amount of damage before the Constitutional changes are made.

    Even with the op-ed, a lot of Donald's limited attention is going to be on rooting out the traitor, rather than bombing other countries, starting other trade wars or flexing other unilateral powers that the President enjoys.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

  25. #2155

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Even if all those who disagreed resigned, there would be enough that remained to continue the process. I'm sure that there is a mass of self-interest going on here, but given that the staff do not have the power to change what is going on, all they can do is wait until either Congress grow some balls or his handpicked sycophants in the Cabinet do (unlikely - they've already sold out as far as they can);else the Electorate. Donald has the power to do a large amount of damage before the Constitutional changes are made.

    Even with the op-ed, a lot of Donald's limited attention is going to be on rooting out the traitor, rather than bombing other countries, starting other trade wars or flexing other unilateral powers that the President enjoys.

    You're saying that public defiance will have a weaker effect than stirring the pot and sabotage. I disagree. You also don't consider the ethical dimension.


    If there were an effective "resistance" within the White House, giving up the game through an op-ed in a national paper of record would seem to be counterproductive.

    The op-ed author(s) can immediately be dismissed as unserious because of the contradictions in the text and meta-text. One can't believe that a given elected leader is a danger to the country and claim to be working against them, while also claiming "[w]e want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous." Dissonance, or more likely hypocrisy. If one truly believes that "President Trump’s impulses are generally anti-trade and anti-democratic", how can you justify shoring up the administration from within? That was their stated goal and alleged accomplishment. No matter how many good qualities such a person attributes to a Trump administration, he has spoken to and of its discredit, discredit he ought to be bound to admit irredeemable if sedition is the legitimate response.

    In developing a non-partisan remedy the ethical option is to take a public and collective stance to force the issue. Then the onus is visibly on the legislators to act. We don't have the "vote of no confidence" in America, but mass resignation of high officials is a step in that direction.

    These people certainly can't claim the virtue of righteous disobedience while still actively carrying out the functions of this administration. 'Sure, I'm still killing and raping for Islamic State, but think about that one child I spared. What we as Muslims need now is to overcome al-Bagdadi's divisive rhetoric and find the strength to shed the labels.'

    Trump's limited attention would be a lot more limited if these #resistance quit their jobs. This White House would find it difficult to fill the vacancies, and has from the start been notoriously understaffed. Public recriminations would further deplete the pool of potential replacements. It's not like I'm asking for the open disobedience of mid-grade civil servants here, of which there are many thousands. We're speaking of political appointees.

    And the final point: everyone knew who Donald Trump was. Whoever signed up to work for him in the first place is almost certainly a reprobate. Whoever is still working for him must be. Not even the public mass resignation would expiate them. But what we've got instead is of no account.


    EDIT: In the interest of comity, let me emphasize that I agree with you that the fate of the republic doesn't ride on someone's resignation. I'm just saying they're worthless pieces of crap for not doing at least this much, and heinous pieces of crap for their ostentatious arrogance and smugness and duplicity.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 09-07-2018 at 03:50.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  26. #2156

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    You cant call invoking the 25th a Constitutional Crisis when you are literally following the Constitution.


  27. #2157
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Taplow, UK
    Posts
    8,690
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    What on earth does Ethics have with politics in the USA? Equally, public defiance is brutally put down in the USA. Neither will work - you're currently incarcerating children, arguing whether gerrymandering is OK at state level and not to mention pardoning a sheriff who was guilty of in essence being a racist. Police shooting minorities... the list just trudges on.

    The White Would find people to do the work. There are always people to do ethically dubious things (look at all the things the USA is currently doing...) and this is no different. And the new lot might want a trade war with China / to nuke North Korea / abolish NATO. Or just not care.

    The White House will start to even more closely resemble Game of Thrones with intrigue and this will take up a lot of effort. Many more things will get forgotten since this issue is a lot more important than the boring bits of running a country.

    People knew what Donald was. Many think he's a way to get the Judges they want for the next few decades, as well as the tax cuts. That is the "win". And everything else he says has to be blocked, which will be achieved in part by this.

    If you're wrestling in a sewer, no one is going to come out smelling of roses.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

    Member thankful for this post:

    Husar 


  28. #2158
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    4,010

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    What to do when Trump tweets: an instruction

    https://www.facebook.com/wapodeptofs...7945655365405/
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

    Member thankful for this post:

    Husar 


  29. #2159
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,369

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    That article should be soon for what it is, pre-emptive rehabilitation. They want to come back in 2020 saying "wow he was crazy, wasn't he" while we have no healthcare, no roads, and an even bigger incarceration machine. The GOP should be seen for what it is, a reactionary foundation that holds up what is essentially a Russian style oligarchy. They are going to keep pushing fear until everything is monetized and the mass of humanity below them can't complain because they are worked to the bone. Trump is merely the culture wars proverbial Id.

    There is no reason to vote for anyone with an R next to their name if you value a cohesive society.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  30. #2160

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    What on earth does Ethics have with politics in the USA? Equally, public defiance is brutally put down in the USA. Neither will work - you're currently incarcerating children, arguing whether gerrymandering is OK at state level and not to mention pardoning a sheriff who was guilty of in essence being a racist. Police shooting minorities... the list just trudges on.

    The White Would find people to do the work. There are always people to do ethically dubious things (look at all the things the USA is currently doing...) and this is no different. And the new lot might want a trade war with China / to nuke North Korea / abolish NATO. Or just not care.

    The White House will start to even more closely resemble Game of Thrones with intrigue and this will take up a lot of effort. Many more things will get forgotten since this issue is a lot more important than the boring bits of running a country.

    People knew what Donald was. Many think he's a way to get the Judges they want for the next few decades, as well as the tax cuts. That is the "win". And everything else he says has to be blocked, which will be achieved in part by this.

    If you're wrestling in a sewer, no one is going to come out smelling of roses.

    Good points on American malfeasance, but we're not quite in banana republic territory yet, so a mass resignation of Washington yuppies and well-connected millionaires/billionaires would not be "brutally put down". That's the stage for the legendary "Second Amendment solution".

    Let's put it this way: Stephen Miller is essentially a Trump loyalist in that he is a full fascist who wants to implement ethnic cleansing and won't let go no matter what. What would happen if all the party/establishment loyalists were replaced with more Millers?

    I'm telling you there would not be much difference. Only a veneer of respectability separates the Millers and the Kellys. Sessions, with respect to immigration and drugs and law enforcement, has always been more a Miller. I don't see that the White House would suddenly be able to do more damage than it has already been doing either. A harmful edict does not have to be "competently" put together or implemented to damage many lives. We've seen it time and again.

    Moreover there are more Kellys than Millers out there, and most of the Kellys don't want to be anywhere near the White House, all the less with a public stand on the record. Again, hence why the White House has never managed to fill so many hundreds of positions. Clearly there are not always people available. And many positions would have to be filled with Congressional approval, which will become more difficult to secure the more naked the antagonism. Especially Cabinet roles.


    Can we agree on one thing, that everyone "wresting in [the] sewer" would best be sealed in there permanently?

    The only one I'm unsure about yet is Mattis, but time will tell his story.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 09-07-2018 at 21:31.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



Page 72 of 97 FirstFirst ... 226268697071727374757682 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO