Page 17 of 37 FirstFirst ... 713141516171819202127 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 510 of 1099

Thread: POTUS/General Election Thread 2020 + Aftermath

  1. #481
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Fortress
    Posts
    11,852

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    The point is that neither "run more moderates" or "run more progressives" is a winning strategy in itself.
    I agree with this at face value.

    We can agree that every politician is better off not making 'dumb dumb' gaffes, but the determination is subjective. If it's something recklessly polarizing with no policy dimension or recognizable advantage, such as - for a made-up example - Elizabeth Warren declaring the Republican voter to be a subhuman brute fit only for scratching dirt, we could all agree on its unhelpfulness.

    I get that electeds in less-safe seats are by definition less safe, but the existence of a Democrat elsewhere as lowest common denominator can't be limiting on anyone else.

    The issue is the party brand, not shit leftists say. That's not something easily fixed without being in power.
    I saw one analyst say that a big issue nowadays is that because of how online everyone is, its easier to cudgel candidates with what others say because districts arent quite as insulated if you get my drift and that its easy for the party to be rebranded to fit a narrative. My original point though was that if the squad was more like Katie Porter there would be fewer ways to cudgel people.

    I also agree that Pelosi does say dumb things at times too which needlessly antagonizes and I wish she wouldnt.



    Anyways I am far too happy right now that Biden's win is official to bicker with allies over shit like this lol.

    Where I am, cars are honking, people are cheering in the streets, its really something to behold. Might head down to the White House later to celebrate with my fellow disenfranchised citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    However, the shitshow will continue. If the call stands (currently under NFL review), the next level of combat shifts to the electoral college. Uncle Trumpy will call on states with Republican-dominated legislatures to ignore the popular vote, and commit their electoral votes for him. It ain't over yet.....
    Im hoping it wont be an issue as after the dust has settled as I think most Republicans would recognize that this is a really really bad path to go down...
    But we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 11-07-2020 at 20:21.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

    Member thankful for this post:



  2. #482

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    I finally got more than 4 hours of sleep in a single night.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    I think maybe ACIN's comment was a reference to Trump lawyer Jerome Marcus' statement that "There's a non-zero number of people in the room."
    Don't know that reference.


  3. #483

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Said something similar to this and got the same reaction Ian did.

    I get people are happy this happened, but there is literally 48% of the country that supposedly are hopelessly lost deplorable that we should mock (not referencing Monty here but social media), either learn to defend yourself or start converting them.


  4. #484

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    Record numbers voted for trump and even greater record numbers voted against him. If the Dems had fielded anyone 20 years younger with 5% more charisma, it would have been a landslide.
    Johnny Unbeatable is never around when you need him. Joe Biden did the job, by all evidence close to as well as could be done. The bigger problem is that there are so many people who are at-minimum tolerant of Trump(ism). That matters a whole lot more than finding the special someone to be the figurehead of a party. (See bottom of post)

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    I think maybe ACIN's comment was a reference to Trump lawyer Jerome Marcus' statement that "There's a non-zero number of people in the room."

    QAnon will just move on from CoviDon like nothing ever happened. That's how it works. A quote from your link:

    Uhmmm....QAnon followers don't think, Mr. Beck, and logic isn't a word in the QAnon vocabulary

    You might be interested in the recently-published book A Lot of People Are Saying, which is about the rising tide of "conspiracism without the theory."

    Classic conspiracy theory insists that things are not what they seem and gathers evidence―especially facts ominously withheld by official sources―to tease out secret machinations. The new conspiracism is different. There is no demand for evidence, no dots revealed to form a pattern, no close examination of shadowy plotters. Dispensing with the burden of explanation, the new conspiracism imposes its own reality through repetition (exemplified by the Trump catchphrase "a lot of people are saying") and bare assertion ("rigged!").
    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    I expect to see more of this kind of BS as most of the Trump Administration law suits fail to produce meaningful results:

    https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...hless-electors
    Not saying the Hill has a phenomenal record, but the decision to publish this alone should be discrediting to them as an outlet. Moreover, the law professor who wrote the piece is not fit to teach law.

    Thankfully, there's a huge difference between a no-fooling coup that nullifies hundreds of thousands of votes, and a sneaky decision to stop the count in one state to favor your candidate after a month of contentious process (c.f. Florida 2000). The Republican elites are not Trump superfans, and he has outlived his usefulness to the project. The main thing now is to poison the well for Democrats, maintain the grip on Trump's energized and paranoid base, and plan the next battle.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Tough spot for US media. Georgia is doing a recount; Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and N. Carolina are still counting votes. Declaring a winner before all votes are tabulated will seem to add credence to Trump's "Stealing the Election" mantra. If that happens, expect to see more armed Trumpers showing up at places where the counting is being done, like the recent incident in Philly. OTOH, it's giving Trump more time to delay matters further with nonsensical law suits.
    It's moot now, but the election could have been called Thursday afternoon conservatively. If this were any other election the Dem candidate's numbers could have had it called for them sometime Wednesday. I don't know if the media were afraid of getting it wrong, of inciting violence, or just to milk the ratings one last time, but it wasn't strictly justifiable.

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Said something similar to this and got the same reaction Ian did.

    I get people are happy this happened, but there is literally 48% of the country that supposedly are hopelessly lost deplorable that we should mock (not referencing Monty here but social media), either learn to defend yourself or start converting them.
    ***Biden's victory is a Brexit-tier victory*** (in terms of the spread)


    Meaning he should rampage to build us as much long-term power, and achieve as many of our priorities, as he can get away with.


    As far as Bremmer's comment:

    Last edited by Montmorency; 11-07-2020 at 20:43.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  5. #485
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Fortress
    Posts
    11,852

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Bells ringing in Paris

    Not to be too cliched but this truly is a victory for the global community. Well for most anyways.

    Get Netanyahu.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

  6. #486
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,483

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Don't know that reference.
    I thought you were making a reference to this:

    https://www.texastribune.org/2020/11...trump-results/

    The claims from Cruz and Cloud about election watchers are not true. In a court hearing Thursday, a lawyer for Trump acknowledged that the team’s observers were being allowed in the room, according to WHYY in Philadelphia. When the judge asked if Trump observers were allowed in the room, a Trump attorney answered, “There's a non-zero number of people in the room.”
    Anyways I am far too happy right now that Biden's win is official to bicker with allies over shit like this lol.
    Hear, hear.....

    Not saying the Hill has a phenomenal record, but the decision to publish this alone should be discrediting to them as an outlet. Moreover, the law professor who wrote the piece is not fit to teach law.
    My thoughts, pretty much. I'm not a big fan of The Hill, but I just happened to come across that piece of crap, and it seemed like the kind of shit someone in this White House would throw against the wall hoping it sticks.
    High Plains Drifter

  7. #487
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    7,978

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Can someone explain why Maine's 4 electoral votes are split between 3 for Biden and 1 for Trump?

  8. #488

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Can someone explain why Maine's 4 electoral votes are split between 3 for Biden and 1 for Trump?
    Maine and Nebraska are the only two states which do not award winner take all for the entire state.

    Maine dedicates two points to overall winner of the state, and then gives each congressional district within Maine (there are two) a single point for the winner of that district.
    Biden won the vote in District 2 and he won it by such a margin that he also won the overall state count. He lost the other district which went for Trump (it's more rural), so it was split 3 to 1.


  9. #489

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    https://twitter.com/profmusgrave/sta...48875397378048

    Liberals want to evict an elderly, financially troubled Covid survivor and his family from inner-city public housing

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Maine and Nebraska are the only two states which do not award winner take all for the entire state.

    Maine dedicates two points to overall winner of the state, and then gives each congressional district within Maine (there are two) a single point for the winner of that district.
    Biden won the vote in District 2 and he won it by such a margin that he also won the overall state count. He lost the other district which went for Trump (it's more rural), so it was split 3 to 1.
    And Biden exchanged it for one in Nebraska. I believe this is actually the first ever election in which the split-district system has produced a split in a state' electors.


    Incidentally, I checked the Generic Ballot (overall balance of polling for the House elections) and the same pattern as above appears, namely that the results conform to the polling if you redistribute all the Undecideds to the Republicans, adjusting post-hoc for the small third party share of less than 2%. (With the caveat that as blue states like California and New York release their tallies next week, the Democratic vote share will increase.)

    This wasn't quite what happened in 2016, since there were so many Undecideds (and third party voters) that many of them did come to Clinton - they just broke for Trump overall. As far as I'm seeing with 2020 polling, the Undecided-to-Trump/Republican vote is something like 90 to 100% of them (without third party), or maybe 50% Trump/Republican, 40% third party, very roughly. There shouldn't be a reflex to simply categorize Undecideds as de-facto Republicans going forward, since it's quite possible this phenomenon is an artifact of living under Trump. But I will struggle to resist looking at future polling through the lens of Undecided = Republican.

    This should also underscore that, contrary to liberal fixations, third parties routinely siphon vastly more votes from Republicans than they do from Democrats. It's a justifiable outrage, but there's maybe 1 election in American history where a third party clearly harmed Democrats*: 2000 Naderism.

    Libertarians definitely cost Trump Georgia and Arizona for example.

    *Arguably also George Wallace in 1968, but that reflected an actual schism within the party and those white Southerners promptly switched to Republicans permanently under Nixon.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 11-07-2020 at 22:52.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  10. #490
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Fortress
    Posts
    11,852

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    After seeing all the celebrations today I only wish that John Lewis would have been able to see this. I'm not a particularly religious person but if there is a heaven then I'd like to think he is proud of us, especially his fellow Georgians.

    Also shoutout to electing our first woman VP. Big day.

    Edit: a beautiful video that aired on Irish tv.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 11-08-2020 at 01:20.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

  11. #491
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,483

    Default Re: Trump Thread



    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-garden-centre

    On Saturday morning, as Trump played golf and continued to baselessly accuse the Democrats of stealing the election for Joe Biden, he announced, in a Tweet since deleted, that there would be a “Big press conference” at the Four Seasons in Philadelphia.
    That was quickly clarified, however. It was not the noted hotel, but Four Seasons Total Landscaping, a suburban business situated between a crematorium and an adult book store on the outskirts of the city.
    High Plains Drifter

  12. #492
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Alpine Subtundra
    Posts
    920

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post

  13. #493
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Fortress of the Mountains
    Posts
    11,439

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    A very good article from NYT outlining the path to the White House. Long read but excellent.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/07/u...president.html
    Last edited by edyzmedieval; 11-08-2020 at 18:43.
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

    Proud

    Been to:

    Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming in France - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country. A novel set before the war.

    A Painted Shield of Honour - 1313. Templar Knights in France are in grave danger. Can they be saved?

  14. #494
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Kona, Hawaii
    Posts
    3,015

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    I can only hope that Biden's long experience in politics together with such a close count in the Senate encourage some bi-partisan work together in DC. The zero sum politics of take control of the whatever branch and then either dictate terms or obstruct which has been the norm since Harry Reid has not been good for the country. This increased tribalism makes us weak internally and ineffective externally.

    I can also only hope that Trump can step out of the lime light once he's out of office. If he's seriously considering start an election campaign for 2024 once he's out of office and we endure 4 more years of constant campaigning it'll be bad for the country. The two year election cycle is bad enough but perpetual campaigning is not sustainable if the government is to function.

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Four stage strategy from Yes, Minister:
    Stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
    Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  15. #495
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Fortress
    Posts
    11,852

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    It will depend on what happens in Georgia in January. Hard to predict what will happen but I am defaulting to the GOP holding the Senate. Unknown what the relationship between Biden and McConnell will be but I cant imagine it will be too warm.

    No idea what happens with Trump. He might try again in 2024 but I think it would also depend on what legal or health issues he is having. Maybe he makes good on his promise and flees the country lol. But the bigger issue we need to worry about is a more competent Trump coming into office. Someone like Josh Hawley or Tom Cotton, who sounds a lot like Trump sometimes but not as much of the buffoonery. My chief worry is that Trump was just the start, and that goal #1 of a Biden administration needs to be strengthening our institutions to prevent undemocratic abuse so we dont become an illiberal democracy like in Hungary or Turkey.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

    Member thankful for this post:



  16. #496
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    7,978

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spmetla View Post
    I can only hope that Biden's long experience in politics together with such a close count in the Senate encourage some bi-partisan work together in DC. The zero sum politics of take control of the whatever branch and then either dictate terms or obstruct which has been the norm since Harry Reid has not been good for the country. This increased tribalism makes us weak internally and ineffective externally.

    I can also only hope that Trump can step out of the lime light once he's out of office. If he's seriously considering start an election campaign for 2024 once he's out of office and we endure 4 more years of constant campaigning it'll be bad for the country. The two year election cycle is bad enough but perpetual campaigning is not sustainable if the government is to function.
    The problem, also seen on this side of the water, is when one side sees that electoral advantage is the be all and end all, and this attitude is backed by the electorate. When that happens, as has been the case from the right for the past few years, there is a firm core that will never be convinced by evidence or reality, and all that remains is to add enough to that to get electoral victory. And when in power, stack up the institutional advantages so that the other side is fundamentally handicapped in any presumption of a fair contest.

    There needs to either be a drastic cutting back of the right to show that this does not work, or else a prolonged exile of the right from power to restore normality. Anything short of that, and the scenario raised in the Guardian will come about; the strategy of the alt right combined with a less incompetent individual than Trump. A classical tyranny, in other words (see the ancient Greek tyrants like Pesistratus and Dionysius).

    Member thankful for this post:



  17. #497

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    More New York goodness.
    https://twitter.com/MichaelRapaport/...44728472842242 [VIDEO]

    I don't know what this is, but it's funny.
    https://twitter.com/pgcornwell/statu...94848572379136

    One day after he was defeated by incumbent Gov. Jay Inslee, Republican challenger Loren Culp says he was let go as police chief of the small town of Republic, Wash. The city council voted to defund the police department, which has just one person: Culp.

    Now this definitely contradicts a lot of polling before the election. It was a whole thing that a decline in Trump approval was correlated with COVID case or death rate in counties/districts. We talked about it on the Org. For there to be basically no effect on his level of support is disturbing.
    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...2020-than-2016

    (I had a Twitter link with better graphs but I've lost it.)

    Cool.
    https://twitter.com/lennecefer/statu...69453826322438

    You want to know how much the Navajo Nation dislikes trump?

    1. of the 85,000 registered voters on Navajo 76,000 voted. 89% turn out

    2. Of those 76,000 voters 74,000 voted for Biden & 2,000 for Trump

    3. Biden’s current lead in Arizona sits at about 40,000 [Ed. Now 20,000]

    Ya’ah’teeh MFs
    Given the results in the House and Senate, it is not surprising Dems did poorly in the state legislative races. Also, if we don't take control over the Senate Congress won't pass electoral reforms that include provisions to neutralize Republican gerrymandering around the country. Very bad in that passing such legislation first thing in 2021 would allow us to preempt the 2021 redistricting process that will be happening everywhere.
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsWolf/sta...61542834757633


    Last edited by Montmorency; 11-08-2020 at 22:28.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  18. #498
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Fortress
    Posts
    11,852

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    So Trump is going to try to drag this out as long as possible it seems.

    President Trump plans to brandish obituaries of people who supposedly voted but are dead — plus hold campaign-style rallies — in an effort to prolong his fight against apparent insurmountable election results.

    Also I kinda resent the pundits who are saying that we now need to play nice with Trumpists. Like yeah we shouldn't needlessly antagonize them but for four years they were all "cry more libtards" and now we are supposed to pretend none of that has happened?
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

  19. #499

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    now we are supposed to pretend none of that has happened?
    Yes. We need to de-program millions of people and the first step is by at the minimum engaging on an ostensibly equal level.

    Or we can race to tear down rules that disadvantage us and build up obstacles for Republicans to keep them at bay, but I am not sure where that will end up.

    Member thankful for this post:



  20. #500
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Fortress
    Posts
    11,852

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    I'd argue that you cant de-program when the proponents of Trumpism are still going strong, minus their figurehead. Trumpism doesnt die when Trump leaves office, it will just find new figureheads. While the actual denazification program after WW2 saw mixed results at best, it was only possible to consider such a program because the Nazi regime was completely dismantled. We can engage with them without waiving away the fact that they gleefully supported an authoritarian wannabe.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

  21. #501

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    The Republican Party is a fascist junta and a criminal conspiracy to seize power. They are not a legitimate partner in democratic governance. Their voters do not recognize an American polity.

    Moving on from a man is easy for elites. While significant elements of the GOP are currently semi-actively assisting Trump in his autocratic attempt against the Republic, most are so far detached. The plausible explanation is that the institutional party are very eager to milk Trump's pathetic failure in order to further polarize the country and reinforce their grip on the base by denying the legitimacy of the Democratic Party's scions or of the electoral process (which is, again, a mere intensification of their generational posture).

    For a pithier formulation:
    https://twitter.com/MarkHarrisNYC/st...84336838684672

    Disputing the election isn't, for the GOP, about reversing the result. It's about crystallizing for their voters the idea that if they don't get what they want in the world, it can only be because someone else unfairly took it from them. It is a central tenet of the party. Most of the GOP establishment, except for his most slavering lickspittles, loathes Trump and will be glad when he goes. But they need the sense of grievance of his voters; that's what they're fighting to preserve. When they think that's safe, they'll cut Trump loose with a shrug.
    Actually that's the same length, but still a good complement.

    ...

    We have one profound buffer, hypothetically, in our favor. The fact that so many voters were energized by Trump's WORST features suggests that a more "competent" - in whatever capacity - fascist candidate wouldn't be able to draw the same numbers. That is to say, the voters such a candidate could win by being less like Trump would be insufficient to compensate for those demobilized by the absence of what we correctly recognize as Trump's most damaging attributes.

    What fucked-up people.

    Hey Hooah, I hear that signing a lease (for even $1) in Georgia 30 or more days before an election confers eligibility to vote there. Just saying!


    Also, a correction: I hedged above that this may have been the first election in which the split-district system used by Maine and Nebraska produced a split in the electoral vote there, but that wasn't right. This is the first year in which both Nebraska and Maine saw a split, but in Maine the very first split for the system appears to have been in 2016, when Trump first won CD-2.



    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Yes. We need to de-program millions of people and the first step is by at the minimum engaging on an ostensibly equal level.

    Or we can race to tear down rules that disadvantage us and build up obstacles for Republicans to keep them at bay, but I am not sure where that will end up.
    If the Nazis fail to make gains in the 1933 election with only 33% of the vote, that gives us room to breathe, not capacity to deprogram.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  22. #502
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Fortress
    Posts
    11,852

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Hey Hooah, I hear that signing a lease (for even $1) in Georgia 30 or more days before an election confers eligibility to vote there. Just saying!
    I just checked my registration in GA and it says Im inactive which Im not really sure what it means since I was told I would be kicked off the voter rolls last year but if Im inactive it shouldnt take much to reactivate in time for the runoff! Guess its time to hit up that Fair Fight website and understand whats going on because Im registered in DC now so I realllllllllllly dont want to be accused of voter fraud (understandably).
    Edit: looks like I cant reactive without a GA driver's license. Oh well, bummer.

    In transition news, we are seeing the first examples of Trumpists doing damage to the Biden administration:

    A Trump administration appointee is refusing to sign a letter allowing President-elect Joe Biden’s transition team to formally begin its work this week, in another sign the incumbent president has not acknowledged Biden’s victory and could disrupt the transfer of power.
    The administrator of the General Services Administration, the low-profile agency in charge of federal buildings, has a little-known role when a new president is elected: to sign paperwork officially turning over millions of dollars, as well as give access to government officials, office space in agencies and equipment authorized for the taxpayer-funded transition teams of the winner.

    It amounts to a formal declaration by the federal government, outside of the media, of the winner of the presidential race.

    But by Sunday evening, almost 36 hours after media outlets projected Biden as the winner, GSA Administrator Emily Murphy had written no such letter. And the Trump administration, in keeping with the president’s failure to concede the election, has no immediate plans to sign one. This could lead to the first transition delay in modern history, except in 2000, when the Supreme Court decided a recount dispute between Al Gore and George W. Bush in December.

    “An ascertainment has not yet been made,” Pamela Pennington, a spokeswoman for GSA, said in an email, “and its Administrator will continue to abide by, and fulfill, all requirements under the law.”

    The GSA statement left experts on federal transitions to wonder when the White House expects the handoff from one administration to the next to begin — when the president has exhausted his legal avenues to fight the results, or the formal vote of the electoral college on Dec. 14? There are 74 days, as of Sunday, until the Biden inauguration on Jan. 20.

    “No agency head is going to get out in front of the president on transition issues right now,” said one senior administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly. The official predicted that agency heads will be told not to talk to the Biden team.

    The decision has turned attention to Murphy, whose four-year tenure has been marked by several controversies involving the president, an unusually high profile for an agency little known outside of Washington.

    “Her action now has to be condemned,” said Rep. Gerald E. Connolly (D-Va.), who leads a House oversight panel on federal operations. “It’s behavior that is consistent with her subservience to wishes of the president himself, and it is clearly harmful to the orderly transition of power.”

    The delay has implications both practical and symbolic.

    By declaring the “apparent winner” of a presidential election, the GSA administrator releases computer systems and money for salaries and administrative support for the mammoth undertaking of setting up a new government — $9.9 million this year.

    Transition officials get government email addresses. They get office space at every federal agency. They can begin to work with the Office of Government Ethics to process financial disclosure and conflict-of-interest forms for their nominees.

    And they get access to senior officials, both political appointees of the outgoing administration and career civil servants, who relay an agency’s ongoing priorities and projects, upcoming deadlines, problem areas and risks. The federal government is a $4.5 trillion operation, and while the Biden team is not new to government, the access is critical, experts said.

    This is all on hold for now.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 11-09-2020 at 05:16.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

  23. #503
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Moral High Grounds
    Posts
    9,285

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    I heard about this Saturday, and the question of "How does this even happen?" has been swirling in my head all day long. Yes, Rudy is obviously off the rails, yes the campaign has been run fairly incompetently so far, but there hasn't been any kind of official explanation/blame shift for this embarrassment. But it finally hit me tonight: after this election is put to bed and all the campaign paperwork filed, there will be a line item in the Trump campaign expense report that says something like "Four Seasons - press conference room rental: $10000". The campaign org is broke, and he is still soliciting donations for the legal fight (60% of which are going towards campaign debt payoff). This is either a way to hide money already grifted from the campaign coffers, or a fresh grab. Whoever gets to audit the books is going to have a maze of these shenanigans to cut through. I hope all the lawyers working to "stop the steal" got paid in advance...
    The .Org's MTW Reference Guide Wiki - now taking comments, corrections, suggestions, and submissions

    If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
    Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat

    "Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur

    Member thankful for this post:



  24. #504

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    As a purely technical matter, I imagine every state issues non-driver's ID (I have one myself), which they should also accept as a valid ID for voting registration.

    Also, no one who doesn't have a residence or other connection to Georgia should actually move there to vote in one election. It's a high-cost measure that could bring legal scrutiny.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  25. #505
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Fortress
    Posts
    11,852

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Yeah I sent an email over to Fair Fight to see what I can do, but my resources are probably better phone and text banking.

    Trump's defeat hasnt fully sunk in yet, and probably wont for a while. Its been an extremely long four years and while the end of this chapter is in sight I know that we have a ton of new battles to fight. I kind of envy those who do not bother themselves with politics as this is exhausting at times. I feel like Trump has broken something in American politics and it will be a generation before it is fixed, if even possible.

    (someone remind me why I picked this as a career? )
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 11-09-2020 at 06:45.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

  26. #506
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,483

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    From the NPR link above (referring to 68 of the top 100 counties hardest hit by the pandemic voting predominantly for Trump):

    [...] "it's not the case that people are totally unresponsive to death and bad things happening in their area." But "if you are someone who already trusts the president and you trust him to handle the crisis, then you are both not as concerned as Democrats are and you're more willing to trust that he is the person who can keep you safe and keep the country safe from COVID," she says.
    Keep the country safe from COVID? I'm starting to lean more towards ACIN's evaluation that people are just fucking stupid and are easily swayed by media. It so reminds me of Terry Goodkind's Wizard's First Rule [People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true.]

    Given the results in the House and Senate, it is not surprising Dems did poorly in the state legislative races.
    This is an area that the Democratic Party needs to start paying more attention to...politics at the grass-roots level. If we want to see such things as voter suppression, gerry-mandering, and the like put into recession, then the party needs to oust as much Republican control at the state level as is possible. Otherwise we will continue to see things like court-packing (I referenced this earlier---the GOP has mounted 20 efforts in the last 10 years to pack state supreme courts, and succeeded twice in Arizona and Georgia), or the ability to control the narrative (as in Texas where Gov. Abbot limited polling places to one per county in an obvious attempt to suppress Democratic voting areas like Houston's Harris County).

    Also I kinda resent the pundits who are saying that we now need to play nice with Trumpists. Like yeah we shouldn't needlessly antagonize them but for four years they were all "cry more libtards" and now we are supposed to pretend none of that has happened?
    Something former NJ governor Chris Christie and a guest GOP senator (can't remember exactly who) on ABC's Roundtable Discussion said when posed the question of how to reach a more bi-partisan agreement on policy issues, was all about the Dems need to do this and the Dems need to that. Screw THAT kind of elitist talk, folks. Bi-partisan talks go both ways. This is why I have little hope that Biden/Harris will get anything meaningful done that requires Congressional approval unless both senatorial seats in Georgia are taken by the Dems. The Grim Reaper isn't going to budge an inch on anything that doesn't benefit the GOP.

    So Trump is going to try to drag this out as long as possible
    They know they're screwed. Even if they manage to get a few ballots here and there thrown out, it won't be enough to change the outcome. Many on the White House staff know this and are already applying for other jobs:

    https://www.axios.com/trump-defeat-i...8e38b74c9.html
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 11-09-2020 at 08:00.
    High Plains Drifter

  27. #507
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Taplow, UK
    Posts
    8,690
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Now the Donald is almost certainly on the way out and as a consequence will loose his Presidential Immunity, what should happen next?

    One article I've read is that Biden should give him a pardon to put a line under the last 4 years. As he'd the quietly fade into history...

    Personally I think, if only to demonstrate that such actions have consequences and the whole "rule of law" thing there should be an investigation and charges at Federal level where appropriate along with the State charges.

    Either way I imagine The Donald will start the election campaign for 2024 in February 2021 which is after all his favourite part of being president.

    What do other think is going to happen?

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

  28. #508
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Fortress
    Posts
    11,852

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Something former NJ governor Chris Christie and a guest GOP senator (can't remember exactly who) on ABC's Roundtable Discussion said when posed the question of how to reach a more bi-partisan agreement on policy issues, was all about the Dems need to do this and the Dems need to that. Screw THAT kind of elitist talk, folks. Bi-partisan talks go both ways. This is why I have little hope that Biden/Harris will get anything meaningful done that requires Congressional approval unless both senatorial seats in Georgia are taken by the Dems. The Grim Reaper isn't going to budge an inch on anything that doesn't benefit the GOP.
    Exactly this. Republicans use bipartisanship to cudgel Dems about and then laugh all the way to the bank when they are in power. Whenever Dems act in good faith (ACA debate anyone?), the GOP just stonewalls. No reason to do the same unless theres no other choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Now the Donald is almost certainly on the way out and as a consequence will loose his Presidential Immunity, what should happen next?

    One article I've read is that Biden should give him a pardon to put a line under the last 4 years. As he'd the quietly fade into history...

    Personally I think, if only to demonstrate that such actions have consequences and the whole "rule of law" thing there should be an investigation and charges at Federal level where appropriate along with the State charges.

    Either way I imagine The Donald will start the election campaign for 2024 in February 2021 which is after all his favourite part of being president.

    What do other think is going to happen?

    Absolutely no pardon for Trump. Not saying he should direct the DOJ to investigate Trump, but he needs to let the investigations take their course, no matter where they might lead. IIRC his plan is to do exactly that, stand back and let justice go its course. Pardoning Trump would result in a repeat of what happened to Ford.
    Ford, who was cheered during an appearance in Philadelphia the days before the pardon, was booed when he arrived at the Greater Pittsburgh Airport the Monday after it. Californian Lee Davis, quoted in The Washington Post at the time, called the pardon “dirty politics.” In Pittsburgh, demonstrators yelled out, “Jail Ford! Jail Ford!” Protesters soon gathered outside the White House holding a banner that read: “Promise Me Pardon and I’ll Make You President.”

    [...]

    Ford’s approval ratings plummeted, from 71 percent after taking office to just 42 percent by the end of 1974. Worse yet, the decision to let Nixon go fueled the distrust of government that had become so pronounced as a result of Watergate and the Vietnam War.

    Even Nixon seemed emboldened. When interviewed by David Frost on television a few years later, Nixon defiantly insisted: “Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal.”

    The nation has continued to pay for its failure to hold Nixon accountable. The divisions that Ford had hoped to paper over with his pardon have only continued to widen. Moreover, the general trend — toward a vague sense of “healing” instead of holding specific wrongdoers accountable — has only continued to erode the public’s faith in government over the ensuing decades. High-level officials in the Reagan administration clearly subverted the law in the Iran-Contra scandal but escaped any real punishment thanks to pardons from President George H.W. Bush. War crimes committed during the George W. Bush administration, meanwhile, were swept under the rug when the Obama White House refused to insist on accountability there.

    The lessons are clear: If an administration commits crimes without being held accountable, the next commander in chief feels emboldened to keep skirting the rules and violating the public trust. It should not be a total surprise that Trump, who came of age in the decades surrounding the pardon, believes that he can skirt the formal limits of power without having to fear any sort of real blowback.

    Turning a blind eye to abuses of power might heal the political careers of individual partisans, but it does nothing to heal the nation. Indeed, a lack of accountability only makes the popular resentment over Washington more pronounced and the partisan divide more deeply felt.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

    Member thankful for this post:



  29. #509
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Moral High Grounds
    Posts
    9,285

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Now the Donald is almost certainly on the way out and as a consequence will loose his Presidential Immunity, what should happen next?

    One article I've read is that Biden should give him a pardon to put a line under the last 4 years. As he'd the quietly fade into history...

    Personally I think, if only to demonstrate that such actions have consequences and the whole "rule of law" thing there should be an investigation and charges at Federal level where appropriate along with the State charges.
    I think the smart move would be to not go after Trump at the federal level, but also not pardon him. Let New York State proceed with the tax/insurance fraud case and not interfere at all. By all means, make an accounting of all possible federal charges, but not act on it unless he starts getting frisky. Meanwhile Biden should clean out any Trump IGs, and instruct his Cabinet to start building cases against anyone in the executive branch that broke the law either enabling Trump or doing their own side scams. If for no other reason than to keep them out of federal employment from now on. Neither Trump nor his rabid redhats will care if some rando former undersecretary gets nailed for fraud, Hatch act violations, or human rights abuses, and accountability is important. Maybe start with DeJoy, but this is a long, long list.

    On a related note, I'm curious to see who he will pardon. Himself and his kids for sure, but I would guess nobody else unless they offer cash. Promising not to testify won't do it, promises are cheap. A lot of loyalists are going to get left holding the bag.

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Either way I imagine The Donald will start the election campaign for 2024 in February 2021 which is after all his favourite part of being president.
    He likes to campaign because he likes ripping people off. He raided his inauguration fund for cash, and started his 2020 campaign as soon as he got in office so the donations could continue to pour in. He had raised a huge sum by the GOP convention, but couldn't afford ad buys by the end of the race. The smart Republicans knew that the best way to help his campaign financially was not to donate to him, but to GOP superPACs he couldn't get his grubby little hands on. His rallies were "free" since we paid for his travel and he stiffed the locals for police work and transportation. The "Stop the Steal" fund will be used in the same way, it's not that he thinks it's going to work, but he needs the money.

    Hence my comment on Four Seasons Total Landscaping. Deutsch Bank will be calling in a huge loan in 2021, he will have to pay for his rallies now, and I imagine most locales will be asking for money upfront, which might curtail his public appearances. Also, on Jan 21st he may find himself kicked off Twitter for violations of the TOS. His days of free publicity may be over, and he's broke.
    The .Org's MTW Reference Guide Wiki - now taking comments, corrections, suggestions, and submissions

    If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
    Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat

    "Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur

  30. #510

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Valuable African perspectives:
    https://www.csis.org/analysis/africa...ntial-election

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Fatma Karume, Tanzanian Lawyer (@fatma_karume)
    As someone who has witnessed the death of a transitional democracy in Tanzania, I am bemused by the often repeated description of the 2020 U.S. election as “critical for the survival of democracy.” I am not disputing Trump’s authoritarian tendencies and his strongman persona. He may not like to display his pectoral muscles like Vladimir Putin, but he does not shy away from exercising his presidential hire-and-fire powers. He has been through four chiefs of staff in four years compared to Barack Obama’s five chiefs of staff in his eight years in the White House. The rate at which Trump dispenses key staff, his unfiltered language, and his disregard for science in favor of bleach in the fight against Covid-19 is reminiscent of presidential behavior on a continent he reportedly described as being comprised of “shithole countries,” including my own, but let’s give the devil his due.

    Coincidentally Tanzania had a general election on October 28, 2020. The National Electoral Commission (NEC) stuffed the rafters with presidential appointees, ensuring the ruling party won seats by disqualifying opposition candidates before a single ballot was cast. Police teargassed opposition campaigns, opposition candidates were injuncted from campaigning, and others were arrested and imprisoned. On election day, ballot stuffing in favor of the incumbent was de rigueur. The NEC announced Magufuli had won 84 percent of the popular vote, and his party 99 percent of parliamentary seats. The opposition refused to recognize the results and the general public looked on in quiet astonishment, as the army and police force took over our streets. No Tanzanian can challenge Magufuli’s presidency in a court of law as the Constitution bars such a challenge. Magufuli is our president for the next five years, evidence of ballot stuffing or not.

    A world away, Joe Biden has his lawyers primed to challenge Trump, and Trump stands at the ready to fire. Biden’s campaign was not punctured with teargas or sabotaged by the state. The fact that Trump is refusing to say he will concede defeat does not pose an existential threat to American democracy. He is just posturing, and it means nothing in a system in which Trump does not control the people who count the votes, nor the courts. When it comes to destroying democracies, Trump is definitely not the most effective; he has much to learn from leaders of some of our “shithole countries.”
    Wednesday, November 4, 3:11 p.m. ET
    Aanu Adeoye, Mail & Guardian (@aanuadeoye)
    Just a day before the United States went to the polls, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo called on Tanzanian authorities to "fully address" election irregularities. At the time it seemed rich given President Donald Trump had not committed to a peaceful transfer of power should he lose to Democratic candidate Joe Biden. The tweet looked even worse a few hours after that, when Trump declared victory and falsely claimed the election was being stolen. If this happened elsewhere around the world, the United States would be the first to admonish a leader going rogue, as Pompeo just did. Even as it seems like Biden is about to win, the United States’ standing over the last four years has taken a battering, and it remains to be seen just how an incoming Biden administration would mend relations across the world, especially in Africa, where the Trump administration has not paid much attention to issues on the continent.
    Wednesday, November 4, 3:45 p.m. ET
    Mwanahamisi Singano, FEMNET, African Women's Development and Communication Network (@MSalimu)
    Coming from witnessing and participating in elections in Tanzania, where all state apparatus were deployed to secure a win for president seeking reelection, it is refreshing to see the opposite in United States: the president seeking reelection constantly claiming rigging against him.

    While there is still optimism that Biden might win, I am personally surprised that the race is so close. I would have assumed, with all Trump has displayed and done the past four years, it would have been a clear choice, a consensus of some sort that Americans and the world deserve better. What we are seeing and learning is how deep and engrained extreme right-wing beliefs are embedded in American society and a clear desire and commitment to make those beliefs part of public policies and public life.

    Americans are not only voting for presidents as individual candidates, they are voting for fundamental issues: human rights, climate change, equality, anti-racism, gender equality, and the list goes on. For Americans to call themselves leaders of the free world, these issues should not be up for debate. It is sad to see millions of Americans voting for leaders who stand against these fundamental issues.

    Last, the U.S. election reminds us, one more time, that strong man politics and populist leadership are happening in developed countries, not just the developing world.


    Friday, November 6, 3:25 a.m. ET
    David Hundeyin, Nigerian Journalist (@DavidHundeyin)
    My biggest impression is that of a country suffering from a fundamental divide that may not actually be bridgeable. The turnout is the largest in at least two generations, and yet the result does not look to be in any way decisive.

    Taking into account the reality that the election was largely fought on the basis of racial identity politics of the sort I am very familiar with over here in Nigeria, this speaks to a division that is no longer just political or cultural, but also civilizational. The United States is now essentially two different countries struggling against each other to impose their vision of what it should be.

    From an African and specifically Nigerian point of view, President Trump's insistence on using a scorched earth approach to politicking is very bad news indeed. The United States has always been a very important moderating influence on the excesses of Africa's existing and budding dictatorships. By discrediting the independent electoral system and all but openly inciting his supporters to violence, Trump's actions serve to legitimize the worst parts of Africa's struggles with electoral democracy. Ultimately, I hope that Joe Biden, if he does win, will reassert the United States’ global commitment to promoting democracy and will ignore the predictable wall of faux indignation from the usual suspects accusing it of hypocrisy.

    I also hope that the United States’ legal and regulatory systems will actually take on Donald Trump and ensure that he pays for at least some of the very open illegalities he has been responsible for, because that in itself would send a very powerful message to the developing world about the primacy of systems and processes over individuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Now the Donald is almost certainly on the way out and as a consequence will loose his Presidential Immunity, what should happen next?

    One article I've read is that Biden should give him a pardon to put a line under the last 4 years. As he'd the quietly fade into history...

    Personally I think, if only to demonstrate that such actions have consequences and the whole "rule of law" thing there should be an investigation and charges at Federal level where appropriate along with the State charges.

    Either way I imagine The Donald will start the election campaign for 2024 in February 2021 which is after all his favourite part of being president.

    What do other think is going to happen?

    See Mr. Hundeyin above.

    Those who seek from liberals a token of submission in earth and water will find plenty of both in a sewer. Donald Trump is veritably one of the most criminal Americans ever, and his administration has been similarly lawless. We cannot simply permit unlimited lawbreaking - and not just in service of personal venality but for open sedition! - from those in power or rule of law has no meaning and we're living in a Purge society that anyone can take advantage of so long as they have the position. It is a very sick society that affords impunity to the powerful by the measure of their power. We can't prosecute all the thousands of people who 'deserve' it, but Trump, his family, Barr - there's a minimum.

    One Congressman has proposed something like a Presidential Crimes Commission. That would be less than the bare minimum. (Amusingly, it was announced immediately after the election that the US govt is investigating the Trump campaign for campaign law violations this year. Less amusing would be for these investigations not to be pursued in the criminal justice system.)

    In a year with so many confounding turns, I am still confident the point is partially-mooted by Trump's inevitable pardon for himself/family/close associates.


    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    He likes to campaign because he likes ripping people off. He raided his inauguration fund for cash, and started his 2020 campaign as soon as he got in office so the donations could continue to pour in.
    It happens to be in our best interest if as many Republicans as possible funnel as much of their money as they can into his hole-ridden pockets.

    I think the smart move would be to not go after Trump at the federal level, but also not pardon him.
    As we discussed a year or so ago, it will be almost impossible to find a jury to convict properly, but it should be possible in an omnibus of charges to get at least some to stick (Manafort's skin was saved by a single dissenting juror, but only then on something like half the charges; even many redcaps have a limit). Such an omnibus case will take years to put together, and understandably a Biden admin may want to keep a lid on it (though such pressure from the top would be inappropriate in itself!) if a trial would be commencing and proceeding through the 2024 primaries and election season. The process would be acrimonious, draw a lot of media attention, and could well lead to a mistrial and do-over which wouldn't enhance public confidence. Worst case scenario the feds muck it up on some technical matter like they did with the Malheur Refuge/Bundy situation. So... maybe. Maybe it would be best to wait for if and when a Dem is reelected, even if many offenses fall through the floor of limitations by that time.

    We can at least go after Don Jr, Kushner, and Ivanka - right?
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Member thankful for this post:



Page 17 of 37 FirstFirst ... 713141516171819202127 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO