Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[Newcomb]

I'm hoping that if I said 0-1 in [Sleep, Zack, HK, Neb, Newc, Cuth] I'd be correct

Decent shot you would be I think.

[Sleep]

reading this through im not sure it changes my worldview a ton yet. im willing to bump ender and sunbae up to my top tier. the way they responded to pressure from ladd just doesnt look aligned. zack looks good but i already had him as a villager. the hing ith letting katze be in charge of eod would be p funny as distancing but i dont think its likely and katze calling him out for seemingly shadowing newcomb is good

cuth bussing ladd in the situation he was in is wild if a wolf, so im willing to give him a pass for that, although ladds read on him was kind of weird. this is maybe something to consider down the line, if we find multiple wolves were getting heat eod1. in that situation a bold play would be necessary to try to get someone village read.

theres some people i want to revisit (csargo, ben) to shore up my feelings but my worldview has changed shockingly little so far

actually a funny thing i just noticed in his iso: ladd made a big deal about how the people he voiced suspicion of (ender, sunbae, zack) pushed back on him (and sort of tried to preemptively discredit me doing it, lol), but basically didnt comment on cape calling him a suspect

[Sleep]

this would be a pretty ballsy thing to say as a wolf here

...why?

[Newcomb]

There's a distinct difference in the way you've piled on vs the way Zack, Benneh, and Newcomb have handled it and i'm trying to warn a town read of mine that I think he's getting pocketed.

I think Sunbae's just a villager?

[Cuthillius]

...why?

it's just. not the sort of thought a wolf normally has? nearly as often as a villager? could have phrased it a bit more clearly it's not necessarily that it's so brave it's just. a really idk not-wolf-like way of saying stuff

telling a villager that if you were them you would have obviously been able to tell that your partner was a wolf, and that even though you don't know them that well you were kinda sus there

is just wack if w

[nebjiamn]

this would be a pretty ballsy thing to say as a wolf here

how so?

that doesn't seem like an ostensibly high stakes post to make?

[nebjiamn]

it's just. not the sort of thought a wolf normally has? nearly as often as a villager? could have phrased it a bit more clearly it's not necessarily that it's so brave it's just. a really idk not-wolf-like way of saying stuff

telling a villager that if you were them you would have obviously been able to tell that your partner was a wolf, and that even though you don't know them that well you were kinda sus there

is just wack if w

how do you know i'm a villager?

[Cuthillius]

how do you know i'm a villager?

w!cape talking to his partner w!benneh about their partner w!ladd like this makes even more sense, yes

[Sleep]

my giga brain conclusion on a reread of csargo is the he and cape are not w/w. possibly 1 in there but no more than that.

[hollowkatt]

Rask has no problem with bussing? Don't think I've ever seen him as a woof.

Rask fooled me hard in the last Syndicate game we played in, he feels similar here to there. Dolby I think was also wolf that game? Might have to check.
I don't think Rask has a problem with busing but I have not seen enough of his wolf games to really make a determination there.

I think I want to see how he plays today given the Ladd wolf flip.

[Newcomb]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Town:

zack
nebjiamn
Sleep
Newcomb

Light Town:

Sunbae
EnderWiggin
Cuthillus
Hollowkatt
katze

Talk more:

Montmorency

Light Wolf:

Csargo
ladd
Monstrdude
Winston
Dobby

here is reads that I have developed while struggle trying to ISO people without the ISO functionality

I bolded my most confident wolf reads.

vote: Csargo

I think Csargo has had good and bad. And I feel like Csargo has been dodgy with some of their posts. What I mean is with some of the language they use in these posts like.



and



make of it what you will. Yes I understand people have used my light usage of words against me too, but this feels next level.

Squinting a little at the placement of ladd there

[nebjiamn]

sleep seems to be making the most nefarious interpretations for ~everything cape says. even obvious wolves dont do as many wolfy things as sleep is accusing cape of doing in 12 hours

tbh knowing who sleep is would help a ton and its kinda lame to sign up on an alt in a game like this





can you go in some detail on what exactly you really don't like?

this + the rest of the sleep interactions following this post + the confusion/request for knowing sleep's real identity + the rest of my sleep read all look real good for sleep

but i would be lying if i didn't mention the tinfoil light of my brain turns on wondering if this wasn't an elaborate w/w back and forth

[nebjiamn]

i don't think sunbae handles my push like this if he is a wolf and knows i am a villager and right

mostly the whole warning his top villas that i may be a wolf pocketing them seems like genuine concern rather than something a wolf would ever think to do for show

and in general i got the impression starting from last night already that he was getting increasingly more frustrated with my push on him (feel free to correct me if i am wrong tho) and holding it back

his wall post seems fine too



I read a couple of monty games on this forums and he seems to have no problems posting as a wolf. can the orgers elaborate on why they think he is a wolf from his 3 posts?

i think this reveral on sunbae likely just means sunbae is indeed a villager and ladd realized any equity he had in running that discussion up had run its course. i think if sunbae and ladd were w/w ladd definitely keeps his suspicions there, at least a little, rather than opting to just handwave his wolf read away

[nebjiamn]

the winston / zack interactions genuinely crack me up btw

[nebjiamn]

benneh ender katze sunbae (ladd)

very opposed to any of these people today aorn

cuth, i think i know, but why is ladd in parentheses here?

[Csargo]

Rask fooled me hard in the last Syndicate game we played in, he feels similar here to there. Dolby I think was also wolf that game? Might have to check.
I don't think Rask has a problem with busing but I have not seen enough of his wolf games to really make a determination there.

I think I want to see how he plays today given the Ladd wolf flip.

I agree with you, I don't see anything particularly compelling in Rask's EoD to say he's town other than the ladd vote.

[Sleep]

this + the rest of the sleep interactions following this post + the confusion/request for knowing sleep's real identity + the rest of my sleep read all look real good for sleep

but i would be lying if i didn't mention the tinfoil light of my brain turns on wondering if this wasn't an elaborate w/w back and forth

hehe

[Zack]

the winston / zack interactions genuinely crack me up btw

[Sunbae]

I return

[Sleep]

I agree with you, I don't see anything particularly compelling in Rask's EoD to say he's town other than the ladd vote.

this is maybe low lvl but i think winston dying is a good look for rask

at EOD he was the one who basically stood in the doorway and said not to kill rask. although eod made him essentially lock clear, if hes a villager wrongly shielding wolf rask there are other kills wolves could have made and no one would have batted an eye

sorry ladd I ddidn't want to

this also would be a wild thing to post in thread after last minute bussing

[Zack]

why are benneh and ladd above null?

I return

[Zack]

oh apparently I didn't clear those multi-quotes

I was just gonna say that sequence was my favorite

[Sunbae]

Rather than do a list I'm just gonna spend some individual posts trying to get my thoughts out there in a concise and organized manner

[Csargo]

this is maybe low lvl but i think winston dying is a good look for rask

at EOD he was the one who basically stood in the doorway and said not to kill rask. although eod made him essentially lock clear, if hes a villager wrongly shielding wolf rask there are other kills wolves could have made and no one would have batted an eye


this also would be a wild thing to post in thread after last minute bussing

Winston also said that Newcomb/Monty were good choices towards EoD, maybe he died cause he wanted to yeet Zack, there's infinite possibilities. I'm just thinking about purely what Rask did, because anything else is well a rabbit hole.

It would be.

[Zack]

winston died cuz he was obviously clear mainly (it definitely wasn't because he tried to get me chopped )

newcomb d2 is super underwhelming.

[Newcomb]

winston died cuz he was obviously clear mainly (it definitely wasn't because he tried to get me chopped )

newcomb d2 is super underwhelming.

God reading this when I've been spending the last hour writing a post answering your question is tilting as fuck.

[Zack]

God reading this when I've been spending the last hour writing a post answering your question is tilting as fuck.

the question I asked 4.5 hours ago that you hadn't acknowledged while continuing to post about other stuff...?

sorry I can't read your mind

[Newcomb]

can you give me an overview of where your head's at newcomb?

I'm breaking the game down into groups at the moment.

You've got, essentially - the Ladd voters, the people who I have some experience with and have sounded okay, the people suspecting me, the midrange group of moderately active/engagement people who haven't stood out, and then the lowposters/disengaged group. Those last two you could kinda quibble with who goes where so just assume the line is blurry and not a hardline thing.

So -

Ladd voters. [Cuth, Monte, Rask]. 0-1 in this group, max 1. I'm decently sure they're all villagers. For one thing, I think wolves killing the lead person on the wagon is some light evidence for it being clean - if there was a wolf on it, they'd kinda have to know that whoever it was was gonna get tagged with "why are you still alive" at some point, and killing on the wagon just makes that problem bigger. I will grant you that Rask is like... possible? given how chaotic EoD was. But ladd was like, a PR, a strong player, and flashwagoned by a villager in like 3 seconds.

I know this is colored by knowing I'm town, but I just really don't see w monte, cuth, or rask being that crazy. With the setup being the way it is, village seems like it can get absolutely bodied early if it doesn't get a hit relatively quickly - like you could misyeet D1, NK, double mis bomb D2 and suddenly you're looking at 4 dead town before D2 is even over and that starts to feel pretty bad pretty fast. When it was down to me, rask, or ladd, I know it happened fast but not so fast that it wouldn't be front and center in wolves minds that I was practically free there. Like you've got 3 people wanting me dead, and at least 2 of them are probably villagers. You've got cover. Not jumping on that just seems bad to the point of not even worth considering unless you really need to.

Then you've got the people I know to some degree and have seemed fine. That'd be [you, bennah, and Sunbae]. 0-1 in that group. Sunbae's definitely the villagery one of that group. That warning he gave us about ladd would just be giga-smooth if partnered. Gun to my head you're all villagers. Bennah mostly for the way I think his suspicion of me but not quite being able to pull the trigger felt real. You for... I guess negative space? You've been pretty engaged and I haven't really felt any red flags. Although I'm not wild about your turnaround on me, but w/e.

The third group is the people that have been on my case off and on for most of the game. That's [katze, sleep, Ender]. 1-2 in that group IMO. I kinda think it's exactly one. Basically, I really, really, really doubt that the pressure on me has been totally clean. I just can't see that happening in any world. I might not be playing a max effort game but I'm still playing my game. That being said, the pressure on me has felt more villager-driven than not, if that makes sense. Katze I'm kinda relying on others' meta who have said he's town, and no one else really had a problem with his approach to me, so. Sleep proooobably not with ladd, and my issue with him was his wall and that's a bit of a stale read. Ender I think is the bad apple in the bunch for essentially 3 reasons: 1) his push on me felt the most opportunistic, especially at EoD. 2) his case on me was so paint-by-numbers that I'd wager a large sum of money that no one ITT could paraphrase it without actually going back to look at it, and 3) there are a lot of interactions with ladd - some of which you've pointed out yourself - that feel like they aren't actually interested in solving each others' alignment. Couple of those that stood out to me in my catchup so far:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

do you have a read on me/zack's push on you?

you seem to care more to argue the argument than to sort if we are wolves pushing you iyam

Nah Sunbae is more consensus w than v.

As I said tho, not really consensus reads exist, mine are only a bit out of whack with thread.

WRT Ladd I absolutely could see it. But I also think like, he's jumped onto this small thing like a bull terrier and hasn't even bothered to think deeper about it. Like he's got his excuse to push me, doesn't see any solid defense of me, so he's just happy to sit on it and exist without re-evalling.

The larger scale push on him exists but I haven't noticed anything with it that I thought was sus?

I think him walking it back would happen regardless of alignment, as he obviously didn't have a solid reason for it. But I feel like as town there would at least be an explanation of how he got there, instead of this vague "I thought about it and changed my mind." that doesn't tell us exactly how his brain jumped to that.

Next group, and this is where it starts to get a bit poorly defined, like you could put dobby there as well but w/e, is the kind of middle ground shrug group where they've been ~around but kind of nibbling around the edges. For me that's [cape, csargo, HK]. Proooobably 1 but no more in that group as well. Aaaaand I just read your post calling me underwhelming so you know what, fuck it. Speedrun it is. Cape/caargo probably not together. HK contrarian in a good way and people called him town for good reasons somewhere, I think, maybe I'll dig that up at some point.

The last group is everyone else, blah blah blah, they haven't been solving you can write this part yourself. Maybe I'll read them tomorrow.

Goodnight.

[Newcomb]

Oh yeah this was gonna be part of that too, just pretend those comments are fleshed out into appropriately Newcomb(TM) sounding sentences.

Rough list of antialignments:

Zack/Ender - early fluidity
Sunbae/Zack - wild treatment of me if w/w/w with ladd; careful respect+suspect type posts of each other early D1
Dobby/Sleep - dobby careful treatment + extra detail interacting with cape read, 116
Ender/HK - early antagonism didn't feel fake
Sunbae/HK - 238, timing
Cape/Rask - cape confusing rask for winston with the winston v flip

[Zack]

thanks for the breakdown, newcomb