Casual december game

[Vulgard]

If we're all sussing Pizza we can all agree to yeet him so he doesn't have to face the pain of getting nightkilled if town.

[Vulgard]

Did read Pizza's entire wall, by the way.

[Vulgard]

It's kind of ironic because him posting about how he plays wolf and how he plays town and why he plays town in the way that he does has made me want to kill him more.

He feels kinda isolated in the thread though so I have some reservations.

[Vulgard]

It's kind of ironic because him posting about how he plays wolf and how he plays town and why he plays town in the way that he does has made me want to kill him more.

He feels kinda isolated in the thread though so I have some reservations.

Then again, he said he was typically getting bussed by partners.

You have not made this easier, Pizza.

[Cape90]

It's literally in the same thread.

meh, either way my default is to ignore pregame posts as I don't just assume they will be actually related to the game usually

[Cape90]

Because this will largely only help you, anyone else who cares can click the spoiler.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Bladescape knows how I hunt wolves on a very intimate basis. Has seen my guide on hunting wolves.

He knows my scumtells and other means of solving. He admitted he did certain things that are wolfy already deliberately.

Much of the rest of his iso is wolfy and not what I believe Bladescape(enderwiggin) should be doing here as town.

I asked him to play it straight if he's trying to be wolf read by me deliberately. I told Wisdom the same thing in two recent games where they deliberately tried to get a certain player to read them wolf. Once as town, once as wolf because they just did it as town.

Interfering with a townie's solve in that manner is not good teamwork, I find it selfish.

Blades is not a selfish player so he will begin playing the game straight from here on out or my wolf read will stand.

It is clever in the sense that he can, as town, read my solving process and see if I am processing it out like town!me.

But it is selfish and sabotages the team in that it makes my reads list worse when he is town, and causes me to miss hitting a wolf with my vote.

And he is a strong enough WINE-ful wolf that he would absolutely do all this as wolf for the sheer bravado and WIFOM of it.

He also said he's not doing it all deliberately, and the stuff I find not deliberately wolfy is far wolfier than the bits I think he's doing on purpose.

thanks for the explanation here, it has been useful into understanding your thought process

[Cape90]

Vulgard, no idea who this person is. Could be a level 5 megawolf I do not know, zero meta..

Fairly good player. I nullread him for the little I have read. He is a decent wolf and can be a valuable asset if town

[Cape90]

Lean wolf
12. Vulgard
6. luvs2spooge
5. Ampharos
9. EnderWiggin

I guess to update my read on Ampharos, I don't necessarily suspect them anymore just based off vibes.

At least I get something from Ampharos' posts unlike what I have read from Vulgard so far, but I am still in the process of being in catch up mode

Rest of these are decent

Throw in Logic for good measure because their pop-ins after their readslist early on have felt very TWTBAW to me. Which could just be wolf, like at this point in the game, Logic popped in said 1 random thing, then another, then nothing else.

I say at this point as in at the time ATPG posted all of these reads, not so sure about the now just yet

[Cape90]

This is how you play at 50% WIM and while meming?

meme posting does not take that much WIM.

Anyway I wouldn't be mistaken in saying you have literally none :D

I guess unless you show it later

[Cape90]

But I probably think this because I relate. I mean. You're doing this to me right now.

And before you accuse me of TMIng you town or something, you can be mafia doing this. I currently think you're town but that push is kinda eh upon revisiting the reasoning. I think Ender could've said that as town.

Guess Ender could be mafia, though, in which case you are probably town.

This feels kind of useless to say because it's obvious and relies on a lot of preflips.

You threw yourself into a circle onto to spout the obvious.

Come on even maf!Vulgard posts better then this

[Cape90]

I feel like the idea of hedging being wolfy is severely outdated.

tbh to me it's how you do it and what has the rest of your game looked like in terms of I guess solving etc

that sort of thing

[Cape90]

To assist me in "NotWolfreading" you, please give post numbers or quotes of the things they said you found funny.

Do not tell me why you found them funny.

you call this a solving question?

I call it a filler question

[Cape90]

I'm starting to think you are faking those reads. There's no way you have a confident worldview right now and believe it so strongly.

Me thinking this probably makes you town, though.

how is faking reads towny?

[Cape90]

Opening seems weird and readlist also just weird as well. Saying vibes and then 'figure out the why', strikes me as odd. Everything else seems meh, so I have a pretty negative view on Logic so far.

if you want my charitable thought. Logic wanted to put reasons down but didn't because he didn't have time

[Cape90]

sigh i accidentally closed my tab and lost my post

cliffs:

atpg prob town for d1 (though hes made some weird posts)

csargo prob town (actually this is a horrendous read but yolo lol)

hkatt eh

cape weird

logic wolfy

I swear no matter the game, you always say I am weird bronana. This is easily the towniest I have been with you, but I am extremely biased, but then again, that chris 17er game isn't a hard bar to jump over :p.

In a roundabout way, I think this makes you kind of susp

IDK you were WAY more excited about playing in the last totalwar game we both towned in (I might be lying and I think you found me towny there while everyone else was calling me weird...)

[Cape90]

didnt get jokes

posts had weird tone idk


he gets a

haven't heard that one before

[Cape90]

haven't heard that one before

(this was sarcasm)

[dyachei]

have you ever considered that you're always weird cape?

[Logic]

Ender/Bladescape is not a zero poster.

I forgot that Blade was the same person as ender.

[Csargo]

if you want my charitable thought. Logic wanted to put reasons down but didn't because he didn't have time

I don't think you put caveats if you have valid reasons as town, but don't have time to put them. I.e. Visor so far this game.

That's my thought anyway

[Visor]

I swear no matter the game, you always say I am weird bronana. This is easily the towniest I have been with you, but I am extremely biased, but then again, that chris 17er game isn't a hard bar to jump over :p.

In a roundabout way, I think this makes you kind of susp

IDK you were WAY more excited about playing in the last totalwar game we both towned in (I might be lying and I think you found me towny there while everyone else was calling me weird...)

I don't recall calling U weird tbh

[Cape90]

I have just now realized I have been talking to myself with absolutely no activity

i feel like exactly the people i would expect to be wolf read pre-rand are the ones people are most concerned about

Kind of towny

I also find Csargo just kind of towny.

vote logic

seems like an obvious wolf

thanks, though obvious wolfy pop in

---

reading Vulgard's Long post responding to ATPG (371) I conclude that I feel like if Ender is mafia, then Vulgard is town, at least I am willing to count on that.

I'm not going to lie - I am a bit concerned about ladd as well for his post about Logic here.

vote logic

seems like an obvious wolf

Same idea as my AOTP concerns, just ignore the part about effort because ladd has barely posted. I don't like the confidence coming into this read, especially since it's a popular take and it feels like an LHF-y target if town. The latter part might be a bit tacked-on and forced in my part, which could lead me to confbiasing the slot, but the first part stands.

Yeah, can't lie though as I do kind of feel this way to elaborate I suppose. I have seen ladd do similar. Also AOTP, nice job XD.

I agree with both of visor's posts

377/380

even for both of the reasons that Visor made those posts.

the part you hate is the part i like
i reckon amy as scum would be more careful in choosing her words and also not breaking the narrative of her posts. It is a weak town read but I have seen town do these sort of last sentences more than wolves, because it is such a thing wolves are paranoid town will wolf read them over tbh

I can... see this thought process. I think boq is town so far, would object to killing.

"I have only made two intentionally wolfy moves so far. Everything else is just me as me as me." translates to inside my brain "actually, there are only two legit reasons to wolf read me rn, and i did that intentionally"

which is something i say too when caught for the wrong reason, as either alignment tbh
so verdict is out
but i giggled tbh!

I feel like caught for the wrong reasons typically refers to wolves.

Okay I am being bothered by semantics lol moving on.

---

Yo Ender,

Thanks for 398 about Logic as I was thinking that exact thing.

Sincerely Cape.

Uh

Kind of towny post otherwise, but Pizza was a hard sell regardless of this post.

---

Okay but Boq is the towniest player in the game I think.

i was going to scum read you for being overly erratic but now i dont feel like doing it tbh

But like what?

it's way too early in the game for the amount of wall posts I've seen

Allow me to make that number larger

---

422 - lmao ladd

he was actually one of my few villagers while catching up

https://media.giphy.com/media/gSIz6gGLhguOY/giphy.gif

this post has been marked as TMI

same with Boq, even though Boq is pretty obvious town.

451 - dyachei I just want you to know that I townread you too this game. (kind of unrelated note) Also I read benneh overnight in the hydra game we both towned in and decided u were town, but then i died with nothing to show for it. But hey, killing Sun and Moon was probably easier :D.

idk i think pizza being blindingly and brazenly confident in the amount of worldbuilding he's already been doing less than halfway into the first phase of a game where his postcount approaches that of the rest of the game combined is more villagery than not

I kind of think him listening to Visor was rand>v for ATPG. Anyone else notice that when Visor asked ATPG to talk less, ATPG just kind of did? I say that out loud and now I think the logic is bad behind it, shhhhhhhh.

Seems like you have no real opinion on me either. But yet you felt the need to state that your null read on me = I can die, yet your null read on the other 3 = no opinion.

Is it because you have the impression that I will be some pointless slot of nonsense?

TBH same.

this reads like you know you are unvoting a wolf

level 0 but sure, we can go with that if it gets you a misvote on boq. Sometimes you have to sacrifice someone to out a wolf.
On a sidenote, it would be funny if 2 wolves just put out proper readslists day 1 like logic/luvs did XD.

have you ever considered that you're always weird cape?

Okay that's true

[Cape90]

I don't recall calling U weird tbh

eh, again I started backtracking on that because of the totalwar game I remembered but I do recall you having that read on like a couple turbo games, but I guess we haven't played a lot in the grand scheme of things

[Cape90]

because cape as town is bad at getting jokes tbh
also because of how he addressed the amy post he had issues with

it is the modus operandi that i have seen cape as town employ more than he does as scum tbh

I have seen Boq literally say this about me many times :p

Also my first froum game ever literally exemplified me not getting a joke immediately into the game

Ah champs, good times

[Visor]

Was hoping logic would pop in with something more interesting than that lol

[Visor]

Tbh cape I waffle between finding you generally townie enough but also finding some of your post construction Wolfy

It's possible that it was just an awkward post and you are just posting villagery in general

We will see

[Cape90]

Was hoping logic would pop in with something more interesting than that lol

Yeah same. I am mostly withholding votes since I haven't been keeping track at all and no mod/body has really posted much of anything on VC

[dyachei]

cape feeling a lot like that hydra game to me

[dyachei]

so that means

Amy
Cape
vulgard

are all light v

[Totally not Taffy]

And now I can answer Pizza's concerns from earlier in more depth. I feel genuinely scared of making reads now, because I just finished a game where I had 4 villagers as wolfreads and two wolves as towncore. We did end up winning that game, but I almost singlehandedly made us lose it, and it took the presence of another villager who became an IC for us to win. It was by far my worst town performance ever.

I also had really terrible reads in some other recent games, which doesn't help. So, yeah. I do have thoughts, but I'm afraid of expressing them because I don't want to be lolwrong again. My last game was an awful performance, so was the game before that, and I tried to express more confidence in both because people have historically wolfread me for hedging, much like you're doing. But me expressing more confidence just led to me becoming even more lolwrong and pushing the wolves' agenda for them.

Realistically, I suspect you for being so confident in such a major solve, Pizza, because I couldn't imagine being this confident this early. I simply could not. I don't have a single read right now that I would 100% commit to. I had two such reads early into my last game and both were horrendously wrong. You have a world of four already.

Your pushes on players other than myself also rub me the wrong way. The push on Ender especially feels like you're seeing something I can't possibly see. From my perspective, Ender did something that vaguely seemed pockety, I told him half-jokingly that he was trying to pocket an innocent townie, he bounced back. This could've just been banter or a V/V interaction on our part. He could be a villager for it! Or just a villager. But you seem to be reading his behavior there as really wolfy to the point that you see me as a wolf with him (or at least that's how I interpreted your posting about us). It's really hard for me to parse your confidence, even with your explanation just now, and the thought process around me and Ender. I just think you're reading into stuff with Ender that isn't necessarily there.

And of course, if Ender is a wolf, then you're going to have been right, then I'm going to look awful for making this post, then i might get yeeted and feel I deserved it for playing poorly yet again. Always a risk, and not even too unlikely. You could be right and I could be the dumbass for wolfreading you here. I'm just sitting here with my little perspective and my instinct says "this guy could easily be tryhard wolfing here despite saying he wouldn't tryhard. He shouldn't be trying this hard as a villager, he said he wouldn't try hard and villagers care less, especially when they give slank cover like this." But I'm not even sure if this is a good line of thinking.

It's basically that. I can't express a confident read. Because when I do, I ruin games. My ability to find wolves is bad and does not improve. My ability to find town is hit or miss. I sometimes write godly posts, but I can never recognize when, and I do not pursue it when I do. Me being accused of hedging, and you calling it so wolfy, and you putting so much pressure on me for it, it kinda just feels like you're being opportunistic, especially since you're not looking into why I might be hedging. I feel like that should be a consideration.

I'm talking a lot about myself in this post and it's probably not really helping, but I can't formulate my thoughts about you without talking about myself first and explaining why I'm not giving many reads, especially confident reads. I know that the way I'm reacting to my poor performance in the last game is probably not the best (outright not making confident reads because my last ones were wrong), but the inaccuracy of my reads has been consistent enough lately that I'd rather just give thoughts instead of reads, if that makes sense, and hope that these thoughts help other people - presumably with better reads than me - nail wolves.

I'm not sure how I will operate independently, and I probably won't figure it out this game.

I should end this post here, and I am.

Town is allowed to be wrong. You are allowed to be repeatedly wrong. Being wrong is not the same as "ruining the game". If your reads are bad this game, and the rest of us don't help you make better reads, then the resulting loss is on us. Contrary to Asks' throwaway joke about having to find four wolves, it's not actually necessary for all townies to find wolves in order to win. It can be just as important to point out faulty logic in another's reasoning (they might be a wolf or they might be on the wrong path), or to provide helpful meta on someone so another doesn't get lost in a lolwrong tunnel, or to recognise a good case by someone else and support it. It's also not necessary to win in order to enjoy a game. Also look at it like this: if you are never wrong as town, it becomes impossible to play as a wolf.

Whenever you came into MU specchat during chams, several people fell over themselves to get your reads on the games. You are respected. You even got a 3/3 iirc. Don't let a few bad games get you down.