17er Saints and Martyrs

[nebjiamn]

When is eod? I'm currently truinn to phone post with an infant in my lap

Tomorrow morning at 9 for tou

[Syn]

murska is whatever

i wanted to give them a hard time during my catch-up but other people already did

i will say that saying you did a reread and you're placing a pressure vote does not hit as hard when the person you're pressuring just finished saying they don't plan on being around much, something you would have read during that reread

(also worth stating that I mentioned this expected activity level pre-rand as well)

pressuring me will get you 8+ hours of silence between one-liners, which is the same you would get without the pressure

[Raskolnikov]

Arctic seems completely fine to me, don't get people's issue with him.

Confused by people saying they're swayed by dya's posting today, it honestly seems almost exactly how they tend wolf ime? Little breadth to their reads, hyper-focused on finding one person to go back and forth with. I don't think they are villagy at all.

Sort of related to the above two points, almost immediately regretted saying Hally made a good post because I didnt care for their subsequent posts lol.

I guess I'm missing something with Syn, because him doing nothing like this is pretty much what I expect from him, and I'm pretty sure there's been at least one time I pushed him hard as v/v for being like this. I don't really know his meta though and he has done nothing that's actually towny, so I guess.



yeah it just seems like he doesn't really care about solving

i thought GH's reason for lock-towning him was weird ("he isn't classically wolfy therefore town" or something) because it's kind of the opposite of how I think about reading Logic, he has a certain genuine belief in his pushes as a villa that really shines through and it simply isn't here, like at all. The confidence in it and the way it was presented also just seemed off, GH literally said he was expecting to plop in and vote Logic with a "sorry about the rand" comment* but a few nothingburger posts flipped it to the point of LOCK town and shutting down discussion? what lol. Seems off.

*I also want to note that Logic's read on me is, like, nonsense.

1. He says I should read him well and I said he was wolfy, ergo I am suspicious.

2. Except Logic immediately said that I've been "legitimately wrong" and pushed him incorrectly before, so what? (For the record, it's not a coincidence he can't think of a specific instance and vaguely gestured to it being a thing that probably happened, because it doesn't exist, and if it does it was at least 5+ years ago or so far removed from relevance to not matter.) Regardless, even if Logic does believe this, it invalidates the entire reason for wolfreading me, no? We haven't even played that many games together, so if you believe this strongly that I've been wrong in a small sample together, then wolfreading me for thinking you're suspicious early day 1 because of an expectation I read you perfectly is ludicrous.

3. GH, after Logic had already made this read on me for this reason, said "I was anticipating dropping a vote on [Logic] at some point during the day with an attached "sorry about the rand" type of comment" so clearly people experienced with Logic thought it was perfectly rational to think Logic was wolfy at that point. Logic didn't seem to take any issue with GH saying this, (or with Visor expressing concern with Logic either, far as I can tell). Why I am singled out? Doesn't this suggest it was actually completely plausible for me to genuinely find you wolfy? Why would I have townread you anyway? Based on what??? My magic divinity crystals?? The people who can magically discern your alignment from a bunch of nothing are WOLVES, not villagers, because they have the answers.

well I regret saying I was getting there on Logic too since his Vanta push is bad and I don't think he believed her reaction was cementing it.

----

It's in 15 hours and half Dya

[Syn]

i love you zack i embrace my reputation of being useless

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Good, you clicked through this spoiler. This isn't actually Asari high command. They're too busy tending to what's left of their planet.

[Syn]

alright back to being wolfy and not posting for 8 hours bye bye kiss kiss

[Murska]

What reread? I've absolutely not devoted enough effort to this game yet to read anything twice, I've barely skimmed the thread the one time.

[Raskolnikov]

Unofficial votecount

Syn (4) : Raskolnikov, Ender, Murska, Ladd
GH (3) : Gemma, Zack, Benneh
Ender (2) :Syn, GH
Vanta (2) : Visor, Logic
Arctic(2): Hally, Dya
Dyachei(1) : Arctic
Logic (1) : Hally

[Raskolnikov]

Vote: Logic

Murska lurking

[Murska]

Just showed up after RPG night

but you can assume I'm always lurking, it's probably close to the truth

[Zack]

Vote: Logic

Murska lurking

he's so blatantly lurking and immediately responding to any mention of him that it's probably villagy

[Logic]

whats wrong with their reaction tho?




i'd just be repeating the same things, they seem completely different from all the games i played with them on here. no bite, no reads, no bantering

in all those games they were a villager, my conclusion is that makes them a wolf

we'll see if i am right!

P#516 a d p#517 look like "oh, I have to respond to the one vote!" Considering he didn't do much else with his next two posts except kinda agree with a w!Arctic read and cast shade on Ender for being a skilled wolf, it doesn't look to me like Vanta is looking.

[Vanta Black]

Logic push on me is bad but tbf I did ask for a push.

I am looking. What I'm seeing is a lot of meta reads, which I (a) cannot evaluate for veracity and (b)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Logic push on me is bad but tbf I did ask for a push.

I am looking. What I'm seeing is a lot of meta reads, which I (a) cannot evaluate for veracity and (b)

you make a valid argument here especially with point b

[Vanta Black]

Logic push on me is bad but tbf I did ask for a push.

I am looking. What I'm seeing is a lot of meta reads, which I (a) cannot evaluate for veracity and (b)

(b) I am not gonna do research atp to look up prior games and it doesn't sound like all those games were here anyway. Case in point, it seems like Arctic, like me, just signed up, yet a lot of you seem to have played with Arctic before.

I look at the game in front of me, with all these "oh this isn'tl their usual blah blah" that doesn't help me. Yet. It is still D1 and the last time I bragged about my D1 proficiency in scum finding I jinxed it.

(c) I shoudl never post on mobile while walking my dog. (9560 steps, go me)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Logic push on me is bad but tbf I did ask for a push.

I am looking. What I'm seeing is a lot of meta reads, which I (a) cannot evaluate for veracity and (b)

also kidding aside, cmon now, you've been playing for a year at minimum right? meta ain't the only tool in the box here

who's got good tone? whose arguments look to you? has anybody made solid points that resonate with you? has anybody slipped under the radar?

[Vanta Black]

I actually pretty much ignore meta, as far as I can. It's kind of a tiebreaker/last resort thing for me. But what I'm saying here is that it's very hard for me to evaluate a post that says "Syn is playing differently this game, must be wolf" and to me that makes whoever said it look more wolfy to me than, for instance, Syn. This is only an example.

The reason the votecount is important is that I look at that and try to case who made bad votes (or what I think are bad votes). The workaround is going back through the thread and looking for the votes, which I'm doing,, but it's slow.

[Vanta Black]

As far as who has sliipped under the radar, I see that Hally has made a lot of posts. But I don't remember any of Hally's points. Those posts just kind of disappeared for me.

[Vanta Black]

Gonna evaluate players based on their avatars, lol.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I actually pretty much ignore meta, as far as I can. It's kind of a tiebreaker/last resort thing for me. But what I'm saying here is that it's very hard for me to evaluate a post that says "Syn is playing differently this game, must be wolf" and to me that makes whoever said it look more wolfy to me than, for instance, Syn. This is only an example.

The reason the votecount is important is that I look at that and try to case who made bad votes (or what I think are bad votes). The workaround is going back through the thread and looking for the votes, which I'm doing,, but it's slow.

I understand. Meta is not your thing. That is fine. I am not knocking you for this. Your connection to much of the playerbase is more tenuous than most people's here, if not everybody's. This is perfectly reasonable and I do not fault you for eschewing meta, both in this game specifically under these exact conditions as well as in general.

But please give me something to work with in terms of evaluating you. There have been 550+ posts in this thread so far and while most of them are admittedly garbage (especially mine ) there are still non-meta-related insights to glean from them.

[Hally]

one thing that is kinda nagging me about dya:

I've been waiting to see if gh dropped the shield or not. I'm pretty happy to not have to worry much about logic. Sorry, logic, you're just a hard read for me

i’m not sure i buy this treatment of gh/logic? like the way they just uncritically accept gh town reading logic for ??? to the point that they’re like apologizing to logic (for what? lol) and aren’t gonna worry about getting their own read there

me/zack/rask, which i’m pretty sure is all villas, all think logic’s posts are wolfy and are voicing a lot of skepticism about logic being town / don’t understand how gh is confidently town reading him based on what he’s posted. but dya doesn’t seem to have any skepticism about it at all? even though zack, rask and visor (and to a lesser extent myself), all of whom dya has expressed town reading, also have a ton of experience with logic and don’t agree with the read at all

it kinda strikes me like how i would expect a wolf who knows that gh/logic are town and wants to keep gh on side and butter his buns a bit would approach it

[GeneralHankerchief]

one thing that is kinda nagging me about dya:

i’m not sure i buy this treatment of gh/logic? like the way they just uncritically accept gh town reading logic for ??? to the point that they’re like apologizing to logic (for what? lol) and aren’t gonna worry about getting their own read there

me/zack/rask, which i’m pretty sure is all villas, all think logic’s posts are wolfy and are voicing a lot of skepticism about logic being town / don’t understand how gh is confidently town reading him based on what he’s posted. but dya doesn’t seem to have any skepticism about it at all? even though zack, rask and visor (and to a lesser extent myself), all of whom dya has expressed town reading, also have a ton of experience with logic and don’t agree with the read at all

it kinda strikes me like how i would expect a wolf who knows that gh/logic are town and wants to keep gh on side and butter his buns a bit would approach it

I think this take could be correct

[nebjiamn]

one thing that is kinda nagging me about dya:

i’m not sure i buy this treatment of gh/logic? like the way they just uncritically accept gh town reading logic for ??? to the point that they’re like apologizing to logic (for what? lol) and aren’t gonna worry about getting their own read there

me/zack/rask, which i’m pretty sure is all villas, all think logic’s posts are wolfy and are voicing a lot of skepticism about logic being town / don’t understand how gh is confidently town reading him based on what he’s posted. but dya doesn’t seem to have any skepticism about it at all? even though zack, rask and visor (and to a lesser extent myself), all of whom dya has expressed town reading, also have a ton of experience with logic and don’t agree with the read at all

it kinda strikes me like how i would expect a wolf who knows that gh/logic are town and wants to keep gh on side and butter his buns a bit would approach it

cool post

[Logic]

one thing that is kinda nagging me about dya:

i’m not sure i buy this treatment of gh/logic? like the way they just uncritically accept gh town reading logic for ??? to the point that they’re like apologizing to logic (for what? lol) and aren’t gonna worry about getting their own read there

me/zack/rask, which i’m pretty sure is all villas, all think logic’s posts are wolfy and are voicing a lot of skepticism about logic being town / don’t understand how gh is confidently town reading him based on what he’s posted. but dya doesn’t seem to have any skepticism about it at all? even though zack, rask and visor (and to a lesser extent myself), all of whom dya has expressed town reading, also have a ton of experience with logic and don’t agree with the read at all

it kinda strikes me like how i would expect a wolf who knows that gh/logic are town and wants to keep gh on side and butter his buns a bit would approach it

I didn't want to spoil the pot, but I saw this too and was hoping someone would comment on it before I drew attention to it.

I honestly thought GH would say something first.

I'm gonna say Hally/dya not teamed
But I also had dya/GH not teamed.

[Zack]

But Dya feels villa to me too.

I didn't want to spoil the pot, but I saw this too and was hoping someone would comment on it before I drew attention to it.

I honestly thought GH would say something first.

I'm gonna say Hally/dya not teamed
But I also had dya/GH not teamed.

[Raskolnikov]

Not sure I like what GH is doing rn. waiting to see the follow up tbh.

[Raskolnikov]

especially tone in #555. :popcorn:

[Murska]

especially tone in #555. :popcorn:

Yeah I kind of had a bad vibe about that whole exchange too. I pretty much consider you town by now.

Some people are pretty close to 50 posts, so be careful yeah?

[Zack]

I made a huge post detailing my issues with Logic/GH with specific details that were left open to be addressed and both completely ignored it and seem to be actively avoiding interacting with me about the game afaict

Logic has put such little effort into talking about his supposed wolfread on me that it's almost like he's doing a bit with it or something, except he isn't Winston. You think I should read you perfectly but apparently can't be assed to try and help me in that regard whatsoever. But you don't care about explaining or pushing your suspicion about me either, when the vast majority of the game think I am town.

Your Honor, I enter into evidence a game where Logic was a villager:

I just spent the last 14 hours playing a 24-year-old Video game, AMA

Anyway, to more relevant thoughts, Visor voting for me is the only one I would call an indictment.

There are a handful of people that can soulread me correctly every time, and visor is on that list.

Ladd I think should be able to read me correctly by now, but I can forgive him at this point.

Pizza having sus but not committing to it is about right for him, so I'm giving him a day pass (as if I could be the pebble that brings down a mountain on him)

Dya being comfortable? on day 1 I think is their wolfy meta.

TLDR
After I flip villager, nuke visor.

Vote: Visor

Completely different person. Just read like 3 random Logic posts on that page, it's so different. GH thinks logic is lock town in this game based on meta????

In a more general sense a villa GH having zero interest in talking about the game with me is just, odd?

If these two are both villagers I dont know what the fuck is going on lol

[dyachei]

I don't think I've ever seen gh be wrong about logic and he says he has a god read there. Why tf wouldn't I just take him at his word for a player I have a hard time reading. Particularly when I'm v reading gh

[GeneralHankerchief]

I made a huge post detailing my issues with Logic/GH with specific details that were left open to be addressed and both completely ignored it and seem to be actively avoiding interacting with me about the game afaict

Logic has put such little effort into talking about his supposed wolfread on me that it's almost like he's doing a bit with it or something, except he isn't Winston. You think I should read you perfectly but apparently can't be assed to try and help me in that regard whatsoever. But you don't care about explaining or pushing your suspicion about me either, when the vast majority of the game think I am town.

Your Honor, I enter into evidence a game where Logic was a villager:


Completely different person. Just read like 3 random Logic posts on that page, it's so different. GH thinks logic is lock town in this game based on meta????

In a more general sense a villa GH having zero interest in talking about the game with me is just, odd?

If these two are both villagers I dont know what the fuck is going on lol

Why would I want to talk to you specifically in the game about the game right now? All your recent posts are about some combination of me being mafia, Logic being mafia, and how we're obviously at a stark impasse with the implication that it's not going to be bridged without flips.

Furthermore, the tone of this post you made earlier today:

Nah dude

If you want to play the card where you appeal to authority and demand people falls in line and follows you, put on your big boy pants and explain it

You're not the only person good at reading logic and I am nowhere close to a lock town, not even worth discussing read. When's the last time you even played with him?

was uncalled for imo considering the at-the-time conversational progression and seemed like it was pretty firm in closing off avenues of discussion FMPOV

the last thing, the literal last thing I wanted to do in this game, especially on D1, was be dragged into yet another Logic polarity debate and the very last thing I expected was to have you on the stark other side of it and I kind of just want it to go away so I can start playing some goddamned mafia but apparently that's not in the cards so whatever, flip him and we'll see who's right and who's going to have a miserable D2 tomorrow

I don't really care if this is me being uncharitable at this point, I almost certainly am with this post, and I'm sure we'll have a chat about it postgame but right now I'm too frustrated to care

I think Logic is town, the end

if you want to have a conversation with me about the game then talk to me about a different slot