17er Saints and Martyrs

[Wisdom]

My current read of the game actually has Visor flipping town tbh. But the read is very centric around me actually having a solid idea of who the wolves actually are and idk if I believe it entirely yet.

GTH what's the exact team in your opinion?

[Jan]

GTH what's the exact team in your opinion?

<3

[Arctic]

idk how you can say in this post that i don't have anything to say about logic in a post i am talking about logic lol

LOL nvm im dumb
but it still stands for Gh

[GeneralHankerchief]

i dunno why u keep posting stuff like this regardless of your alignment but i will tell you nobody finds it villagery so you don't need to bother

Oh yeah well now I'm going to post stuff like this even harder

(4 hours of sleep; pain)

[Visor]

LOL nvm im dumb
but it still stands for Gh

yeah i don't really have a lot to say on GH that is going to be useful

for the most part i actually find his posts decent -there is nothing particularly wolfy about them and i buy his long winded detailed thoughts about zack for the most part

ofc zack would be the easiest person he could write about this game

i don't find his actions around logic particularly surprising in any direction

perhaps the only true issue i could take with his posts are that i don't feel like he's found a calling of his own this game in terms of a narrative he thinks is true or a read he thinks is central to the game, which is maybe a sign that he's a wolf who is rusty but i also don't really get that feeling from his posts either, like his posts are fine enough when it comes down to it

gun to head i'd probably just call him a villager, but i'm also in the scenario where i know i am being pushed on by a bunch of people of who some have to be villagers, so when he feels like he's also in the outer ring with me and that something has to be wrong that people aren;t getting, it makes me biased towards making that read

i don't really like the idea of being wrong on gh lol, i wouldn't take my read with any weight, i just think its possible he got off on the wrong foot with people this game for various reasons

the alternative is obv he sees himself as next in line once i die and is trying to basically ally with me as a fight the poe brother in order to move the onus elsewhere esp because if im around i will always draw the attention

and if thats the case i am in a bad position to push that read ofc

but tentatively, no i think his posts are okay

i do think that logic/gh/me are all villagers at this point and that the poe is obviously wrong but i kinda also think this logic/gh/me ish angle is being pushed to the extent that it feels like a narrative being pushed

ymmv, perhaps i will have to die for people to consider elsewhere, but more than likely people will either kill those two afterwards because one MUST be a wolf, or they will blame the wrong people because they don't want to admit they've made poor decisions

[GeneralHankerchief]

Also "nobody" finds it villagery lmao

Genuinely a wolfy way of putting it

[Visor]

i really don't know why i am botherign to still post given there is no chance i do not die but w/e lol ask your questions while you got me

[GeneralHankerchief]

i really don't know why i am botherign to still post given there is no chance i do not die but w/e lol ask your questions while you got me

i dunno why u keep posting stuff like this regardless of your alignment but i will tell you nobody finds it villagery so you don't need to bother

[Visor]

gonna be real that i think one of (if not both!) of benneh/hally could be wolves here

just on a game state level

i guess if you take one thing away from today is that you should probably look into people locking down the read on me as if its a 'must kill'

i know ppl will just justify not listening and still wolfreading me but perhaps you will remember this post at some point

[Visor]

i dunno why u keep posting stuff like this regardless of your alignment but i will tell you nobody finds it villagery so you don't need to bother

i dunno why u keep posting stuff like this regardless of your alignment but i will tell you nobody finds it villagery so you don't need to bother

[Arctic]

yeah i don't really have a lot to say on GH that is going to be useful

for the most part i actually find his posts decent -there is nothing particularly wolfy about them and i buy his long winded detailed thoughts about zack for the most part

ofc zack would be the easiest person he could write about this game

i don't find his actions around logic particularly surprising in any direction

perhaps the only true issue i could take with his posts are that i don't feel like he's found a calling of his own this game in terms of a narrative he thinks is true or a read he thinks is central to the game, which is maybe a sign that he's a wolf who is rusty but i also don't really get that feeling from his posts either, like his posts are fine enough when it comes down to it

gun to head i'd probably just call him a villager, but i'm also in the scenario where i know i am being pushed on by a bunch of people of who some have to be villagers, so when he feels like he's also in the outer ring with me and that something has to be wrong that people aren;t getting, it makes me biased towards making that read

i don't really like the idea of being wrong on gh lol, i wouldn't take my read with any weight, i just think its possible he got off on the wrong foot with people this game for various reasons

the alternative is obv he sees himself as next in line once i die and is trying to basically ally with me as a fight the poe brother in order to move the onus elsewhere esp because if im around i will always draw the attention

and if thats the case i am in a bad position to push that read ofc

but tentatively, no i think his posts are okay

i do think that logic/gh/me are all villagers at this point and that the poe is obviously wrong but i kinda also think this logic/gh/me ish angle is being pushed to the extent that it feels like a narrative being pushed

ymmv, perhaps i will have to die for people to consider elsewhere, but more than likely people will either kill those two afterwards because one MUST be a wolf, or they will blame the wrong people because they don't want to admit they've made poor decisions

meh im kinda falling for this post a little
but then who's a wolf other than gemma if you're townreading the entire poe? i feel like you should have some more urgency about the state of the game if this is what you believe but it's hard to tell since you've been afk

[Jan]

gonna be real that i think one of (if not both!) of benneh/hally could be wolves here

just on a game state level

i guess if you take one thing away from today is that you should probably look into people locking down the read on me as if its a 'must kill'

i know ppl will just justify not listening and still wolfreading me but perhaps you will remember this post at some point

Yeah. When benneh openly asked people to hammer you early my read that was hollow in the first place kind of started to crumble.
I still have Rask Ladd wisdom ender as solid villas.

Dya should be villa too.

There is a real world where you were correct on murska and only die because of a pr claim and because you picked the wrong wolf D1.

But it is really hard to reconsider slots like that this early and you have not been an undisputed ray of sunshine either.

[Arctic]

gonna be real that i think one of (if not both!) of benneh/hally could be wolves here

just on a game state level

i guess if you take one thing away from today is that you should probably look into people locking down the read on me as if its a 'must kill'

i know ppl will just justify not listening and still wolfreading me but perhaps you will remember this post at some point

this is a hard sell for me cuz they've both seemed rlly villagery

why them specifically? is it cuz they're forcing the kill on you? why is that wolfy if you think the entire consensus poe is town and they could just.. kill anyone in it?

[GeneralHankerchief]

gonna be real that i think one of (if not both!) of benneh/hally could be wolves here

just on a game state level

i guess if you take one thing away from today is that you should probably look into people locking down the read on me as if its a 'must kill'

i know ppl will just justify not listening and still wolfreading me but perhaps you will remember this post at some point

I did have the thought about benneh last "night" while you were starting to cook and I started feeling better about you, one of his chief responses to my wall was pooh poohing the fact that I had him in my tinfoil town category and internally I was like "relax buddy, you're still well above my poe line"

At the time he said he thought he should have received more credit for helping construct the generally accepted town core and I was like ok fair, I didn't really focus on that part when I was going over your posts, that could be a valid point

But what if the town core just sucks?

Obviously Rask and ladd are good but I have 100% pulled that exact move as a wolf, demanding to be townread for putting together what would in retrospect be an absolutely terrible towncore/poe, so I'm kind of naturally on the lookout for that and am wondering if he stole my move

It's obviously something that can't be resolved right away but it is something to keep in mind

Also need to get ready for errands now so I'm probably done for an hour+, but should be back for eod

[Jan]

this is a hard sell for me cuz they've both seemed rlly villagery

why them specifically? is it cuz they're forcing the kill on you? why is that wolfy if you think the entire consensus poe is town and they could just.. kill anyone in it?

I rechecked bennehs D1 again and honestly most of why I thought he was villa was because Zack was obvious villa and benneh was the weirdo standing next to Zack for most of the day.
His D1 was not actually great.

[Visor]

meh im kinda falling for this post a little
but then who's a wolf other than gemma if you're townreading the entire poe? i feel like you should have some more urgency about the state of the game if this is what you believe but it's hard to tell since you've been afk

urgency based on what? my role in this game ends in 2 hours lol

i will be an ex villager, pining for the fjords

let me give you a rough rundown of where im at


Ladd
Raskolnikov

Vanta Black

GH
Logic

Dyachei
Jan

Murska

Arctic
Ender
Wisdom

Hally
Benneh

Gemma

i don't know if thats exactly it but its roughly where i feel

i've come around on jan a bit caus ehe kinda is feeling a little free (?) and reminds me a bit of lsat game where he didn't really do anything as a villa but just sorta sat there

ender weirdly enough though defending me is probably doing it in the wolfiest manner though im not sure i could articulate why lol

don't really know how to feel on dya atm, need to reread idk if i will get around to it

wisdom might be my other sneaky wolf candidate too, still don't think those posts d1 were great

[Visor]

this is a hard sell for me cuz they've both seemed rlly villagery

why them specifically? is it cuz they're forcing the kill on you? why is that wolfy if you think the entire consensus poe is town and they could just.. kill anyone in it?

part of it is the way they've done it (i think look to how hally talks to logic about me with the ridicule about considering me not a wolf)

its not about making the correct read its about locking the thread into a state of making a particular read if you get what im saying?

i don't really understand your argument - when i die they can STILL push logic/gh but the thread sentiment is as such towards in me in part because ladd has been pushing me so i don't see why it is a surprise as to why i am being locked in as this is the prime time to actually kill me

you basically get to kill me with clean hands with a ladd push lol

[Visor]

Yeah. When benneh openly asked people to hammer you early my read that was hollow in the first place kind of started to crumble.
I still have Rask Ladd wisdom ender as solid villas.

Dya should be villa too.

There is a real world where you were correct on murska and only die because of a pr claim and because you picked the wrong wolf D1.

But it is really hard to reconsider slots like that this early and you have not been an undisputed ray of sunshine either.

if i was right on murska hopefully it becomes clearer with more flips

for now i am just gonna leave it, its not my problem anymore

[Visor]

i would also maybe expect more indecisivity (is that word?) towards me from hally/benneh

[Jan]

i would also maybe expect more indecisivity (is that word?) towards me from hally/benneh

The thread felt a bit like a circle jerk earlier, but that is to be expected when the two main suspects at the time don't talk and the people in thread are basically an echo chamber of the same read(s).

[Visor]

The thread felt a bit like a circle jerk earlier, but that is to be expected when the two main suspects at the time don't talk and the people in thread are basically an echo chamber of the same read(s).

yeah i get it

[Wisdom]

gonna be real that i think one of (if not both!) of benneh/hally could be wolves here

just on a game state level

i guess if you take one thing away from today is that you should probably look into people locking down the read on me as if its a 'must kill'

i know ppl will just justify not listening and still wolfreading me but perhaps you will remember this post at some point

I don't like that I vibe with this. I also agree that gh/logic are both probably town and considering how the heat died on him after I/ladd (mostly ladd) protected him implies wolves are okay with the current gamestate anyway so pushing Logic isn't important right now.

Ergh did I just talk myself into thinking Visor could be town? I have told myself all game that he's going to come online in EoD and unyeet himself.

BAH

[Visor]

i feel like townreading vanta is a pretty weird thing for visor to enter the thread with



i dunno why you think he can't be defending you to look good
you say because "he has to solve the game as a wolf in this world"
what does this mean?

i don't really have thoughts on anything else visor posted and i'm gonna vote him closer to eod cuz i don't really want anyone else except GH rn

but if we miss today i think gemma should probably clarify tomorrow since i have also felt bad about them the entire game

@Visor i don't really expect you to have a full worldview since you've been pretty afk but if you feel strongly about anything then say it now
i agree with your read on vanta but admittedly for different reasons with some slight overlap

i'm surprised you don't have anything to say about logic or GH? those are the main points of contention other than you..

just realised i didnt explain this earlier

so logic can definitely be defending me to look good (i even say that iirc) but logic tends to struggle to have actual conviction as a wolf and go beyond sort of surface level takes

his wolf game has definitely improved over time from where it was but i feel like the conviction he is showing (in the face of various consensus strong players) is not the way wolf him usually plays

does that make things clearer? wolf him has to find another push in this world when he could just push me and for someone who struggles to have conviction it would be easy to push me esp cause i pushed him d1 as well

not sure if what i am saying makes sense

[Visor]

I don't like that I vibe with this. I also agree that gh/logic are both probably town and considering how the heat died on him after I/ladd (mostly ladd) protected him implies wolves are okay with the current gamestate anyway so pushing Logic isn't important right now.

Ergh did I just talk myself into thinking Visor could be town? I have told myself all game that he's going to come online in EoD and unyeet himself.

BAH

vote gemma with me sil vous plait

[Wisdom]

vote gemma with me sil vous plait

No but I could go Ben/Hally maybe

[Wisdom]

Vote:Benneh (I don't recall his name here soz)

[Visor]

Vote: nebjiamn

i don;t really expect this to get off the ground but #yolo

[Totally not Taffy]

Eh yeah maybe I wanna leave Visor's nuts to Benneh lol

Vote Count

Visor (4) : Raskolnikov, Benneh, Hally, Vanta
Gemma (2) : GH, Ender
Benneh (2) : Wisdom, Visor
Logic (1) : Dyachei
Arctic (1) : Logic

Haven't voted: Murska, Arctic, Ladd, Jan, Gemma


Vote History
If you made a vote that wasn't counted, please link it to me on discord

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vote: Visor

Vote: Visor

Vote: Dya

Vote: Visor

vote: visor

vote: logic

Vote: Arctic

Vote: Gemma

Vote: Gemma

Vote: Logic

Unvote: Dya

Vote: Arctic

Vote: gemma

Vote: Gemma

vote: Visor

Vote:Benneh

Vote: nebjiamn

Post Counts

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

EoD1 post counts for easy math:

Postcap lifted, see you in an hour!

[EnderWiggin]

Science.

Vote: Benneh

[EnderWiggin]

GTH what's the exact team in your opinion?

Gemma/Arctic/Hally was my super self-indulgent gth but I honestly don't believe both Arctic and Hally defend each other like that as w/w so blatantly?

So it's more like:

Gemma/{Arctic/Hally}/GH

And yeah I'm townreading Visor now idc if he calls it wolfy.