The fight for Inishmore [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Abilities, if any?

And I looked up your name, after I read the writeup. It is a Welsh name.

[seireikhaan]

You just saw it used.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So, murder immune, and nothing else?

No small wonder you've been quiet all game. Your story checks out.

[Reenk Roink]

First, a well executed reveal Seamus!

Now then, the fact that Seamus was killed strongly suggests a grunt is still out there (although who really knows, the position of Mafia causes people to do silly things).

This is what should happen. We need a three way tie between Atpg, GH, and boudica. Hopefully our lord and master pevergreen kills them all.

Next up is Sasaki and LG, maybe throwing in another guy, don't know. Shinseikhaan will probably die so that is good.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First, a well executed reveal Seamus!

Now then, the fact that Seamus was killed strongly suggests a grunt is still out there (although who really knows, the position of Mafia causes people to do silly things).

This is what should happen. We need a three way tie between Atpg, GH, and boudica. Hopefully our lord and master pevergreen kills them all.

Next up is Sasaki and LG, maybe throwing in another guy, don't know. Shinseikhaan will probably die so that is good.

I would love a three-way tie between myself, Sasaki, and boudica. GH is innocent... he's not a henchman from the investigation, and he's been too bold with his attack on White_eyes to be a Godfather in my view.

Take down the three of us that I mentioned, and I will gladly die.

[Andres]

First, a well executed reveal Seamus!

Now then, the fact that Seamus was killed strongly suggests a grunt is still out there (although who really knows, the position of Mafia causes people to do silly things).

This is what should happen. We need a three way tie between Atpg, GH, and boudica. Hopefully our lord and master pevergreen kills them all.

Next up is Sasaki and LG, maybe throwing in another guy, don't know. Shinseikhaan will probably die so that is good.

I have an even better idea

Everybody collectively commits suicide and it's game over

Well, not everybody, Don Grizzly will withdraw his suicide offer right before the round ends

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Living. Don't matter who else wins, as long as I'm alive.

Role pm?

I saw that your name was welsh...but the nightkill immunity was quite interesting, and the welsh are british I believe.

Now that khaan has claimed the "other" role, if anyone else out there has it, step forward.

[ULC]

I like the fact I can spend 30 minutes of my life writing up something that took me 2 hours to research and then get ignored. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside to know that

[seireikhaan]

Also, I would advise the town to put Diana to death. Her behavior reminds me completely of how I behaved in my first mafia game.

[Andres]

Role pm?

I saw that your name was welsh...but the nightkill immunity was quite interesting, and the welsh are british I believe.

Now that khaan has claimed the "other" role, if anyone else out there has it, step forward.

If I weren't dead, I'd step forward, but alas, I'm trapped in this coffin.

[seireikhaan]

Hello 'khaan.

You have been randomly selected as Heilyn. You're a traveling Welsh boxing champion. You were scouring the town of Inishmore, hoping to find a worthy foe, when violence broke out between the British and IRA. Now, you just need to get out so as to fight another day.

Your lone ability is to survive a kill attempt during the night.

Your victory condition is to survive to the end of the game. It doesn't matter whether mafia or town win.

Good luck.

pevergreen

For Sasaki.

[Reenk Roink]

I like the fact I can spend 30 minutes of my life writing up something that took me 2 hours to research and then get ignored. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside to know that

Now you know how Atpg feels.

Actually, I read your post. You had some good insights on the lower profile players, but you think GH is innocent... How can I endorse such a view?

edit: K, leave khaan alone.

[GeneralHankerchief]

The one thing I learned from Capo II is not to trust the multiple lynch. Somebody will always come around to screw it up... as myself, Sasaki, and Andres can all attest to.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

For Sasaki.

In the absence of another claim I'll buy that. The role fits how you defended yourself.

I will have to rethink things.

[Askthepizzaguy]

vote: boudica

Life: Diana

[ULC]

Now you know how Atpg feels.

Actually, I read your post. You had some good insights on the lower profile players, but you think GH is innocent... How can I endorse such a view?

edit: K, leave khaan alone.

I was actually undecided about GH, simply because I can't geta read on him - he feels to neutral to me. He is either innocent or Godfather, and if Godfather, then he has an excellent idea on whom to kill to win for his team. But if we lynch a townie, then we are put into a terrible position were the mafia can overpower us in the vote (if they work together, but to remove the townie is a risky). However, I will note that since GH was working with two innocents, his jumping on Ituralde would not be a bad move.

I'd agree with a GH-Boudica lynch .

[FactionHeir]

I think a three way tie between boudica GH and ATPG would be nice

Tho GH is prolly innocent.

[boudica]

I have attempted to catch up with the thread and only got a couple of pages past the sign-up phase. Askthepizzaguy - you place far too much emphasis on who does what when and how long they're online for: I've had the internet on while I've been getting on with some work on me.

Good to see Shinseikhaan's reveal
unvote: Khaan

Maybe those of you who have decided I'm the best bet for a lynch will be able to wade through the 'evidence' again once I'm dead and work out who the actual mafia are. Maybe not.

In the meantime

vote: Sasaki

If it comes down to whether or not LG or you is right, I'm betting on LG's innocence.

I'll leave my vote on Diana: Life - I think ATPG is probably correct about this curious votes meaning. If she is guilty - way to lurk girl!

[ULC]

Any counter to my arguments against you B?

[boudica]

Any counter to my arguments against you B?

If these are your arguments:

Boudica - Essentially lurked the whole game, gave poor reasoning for most of her votes, used poor logic to essentially keep herself alive. Sasaki has always done a good job of saying to ATPG "Hey, yea, she such a good suspect...but, look, there is this other guy, and he a tad shadier...trust me", constantly being loud enough to pull ATPG away. Boudica is also using Psycho mafia as an excuse, when the game ended the 26th (if she was following along the whole time - otherwise, her participation should have spiked the 10th, when she was lynched ), yet, she only suddenly became active today, when the game is on the line...how..interesting...yes. It does not take 5 days to catch up on a game, it takes hours. I read through the entire Midgard threads, both of them, in one day, while still doing other things, such as school work. Not a good excuse.

....then I feel I have already dutifully addressed them in this thread under my persecution by ATPG. If you think Sasaki is swaying ATPG then you can take that up with him. With reference to Psychomafia - yes I was lynched early, but then subbed for Kralizec who had a role which occupied me pretty much til game end. As far as catching up on the thread - I am finding that impossible - it's a wreath of daisys and I am kind of accepting the fact that if I am lynched it is down to my inattentive play (to which I have already admitted to extensively). Believe it or not - I shall not even take any pleasure from the inevitable head-meets-wall smileys that those who have gone after me shall experience.

[Reenk Roink]

If these are your arguments:



....then I feel I have already dutifully addressed them in this thread under my persecution by ATPG. If you think Sasaki is swaying ATPG then you can take that up with him. With reference to Psychomafia - yes I was lynched early, but then subbed for Kralizec who had a role which occupied me pretty much til game end. As far as catching up on the thread - I am finding that impossible - it's a wreath of daisys and I am kind of accepting the fact that if I am lynched it is down to my inattentive play (to which I have already admitted to extensively). Believe it or not - I shall not even take any pleasure from the inevitable head-meets-wall smileys that those who have gone after me shall experience.

I just added you on my target lynch to convince others to also get GH and Atpg because many think you need to go. I don't really have much but minor suspicion otherwise, but adding you would be prudent to my goals.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

English Mafia

The khaan reveal messes up my english mafia ideas. I put boudica and El Diablo in as top possibilities, but don't have anything substantial on them.

Lord Winter:

My case on Lord Winter is not substantial, largely due to his absence. However, consider the alive list:

Askthepizzaguy--believe to be brendan due to ties with LG, kill choice
LittleGrizzly--innocent result;
GeneralHankerchief--innocent result
Sasaki Kojiro--innocent
Lord Winter
serierkhaan--revealed to have a role other than oswald
Diana Abnoba
boudica--innocent result
El Diablo--innocent result

It comes down to LW vs diana. This post of LW's leads me to believe he could have targeted AVSM that night, this is a typical example of his lurking, and in this post:

Vote: YLC

Your last posts come off as too agressive.


@AtPG/Reenk

The only part that links the kill to Reenk is the clear Weenx imitation. That is all it is though an imitatioin. Look at the finer points it is missing the characteristic Wanax commentary that would Reenk put in on the Wenex kills. I'm not buying the match.

He votes a dead man, claims to have not been following the game carefully, but the one thing he does know about is the "finer points" of oswalds kill.

However, the grunts are only important if you can connect them with their godfather in some way, and LW has not posted enough for that. So, on to the Irish.

The Irish Mafia


The first round fake "lynch me":

With this many people, you're just going to hit an innocent or a pro-town role. Even if you got close to catching a mafia, they would just manipulate the tally and avoid it.

As such, I'm volunteering to go first. I'd like any and all votes, please.

I tried to generate discussion, but I don't see much discussion happening. I'm not the Godfather, because that would completely bury my team mates. I'd be ballsy/dumb enough to do this as a regular mafia, perhaps not on the first round, but it would be downright selfish to try such a prank if I were a Godfather. I am not any such thing. Were I a Godfather, I would have to answer to my teammates for letting them down, and seriously, no player would sabotage other people's fun by suiciding an entire team. What I set out to do has been accomplished, now I shall use my vote for more productive things. I'm quite happy being lynched, still enough votes on me to keep me near the lead, but let's try to get some lurkers talking.

unvote: Askthepizzaguy
vote: Polemists

Just to get him talking. Couple of pressure votes ought to do it.

Complete contradiction. First said he was going to offer himself because we couldn't lynch mafia this early and might lynch a pro town role. Now he says it was "to generate discussion", but that not much discussion has happened...then he says that "what he set out to do has been accomplished", which is why he's now voting for a lurker to get more discussion going. It's clear that "what he set out to do" was make a self lynch situation with the intention of proving he isn't the godfather.

LG votes abstain, with the comment "Getting bored of lynching ATPGuy early on". It's not that he thinks it's a bad idea, he's just "bored with it"...

The Irish mafia Kill choices:

Of interest:

Seamus, given atpg's post here. See a couple posts down from that as well.

Side note: pizza votes andres here for no big reason "surely you can contribute more". Andres is in no danger of being lynched. It was asked earlier what kind of things I saw as connections, well this is one kind, where mafia sometimes refer to their partners in a slightly stilted, unnatural way. It is not in the slightest bit provable so I don't make a case out of it, but I do mention it when I see it. Other kinds of connections are more relevant.

Reenk roink, given pizza guy was convinced he was mafia. It doesn't make sense to kill reenk if you don't believe he's mafia. He draws too much attention.

Khaan.

Seireikhaan, on the other hand, hasn't been contributing, and there's no reason behind his votes. He's not even paying attention to who he is voting for. As such, I don't think he cares who dies, as long as it's not him. I also think some of his head-game tactics earlier on this game were intended perhaps to fool the mafia, but seriously? Only I was even confused about it, and I explained my theory about what he was doing, which was acting like bait for the mafia, and then he never got killed, and he's had no pressure on him, but he hasn't changed his strategy. He's still hiding, basically, and he deserves a pressure vote.

Speak now, or forever hold your peace.

Again, another person you kill only if you think he's mafia.

The "I was tied with boudica and offered myself up for lynch" argument

It is here that I will halt my summary for a time. Rereading the day where pizza and boudica were tied is making me uneasy. Particularly this post:

Round is nearly done, I don't think it's boudica. I asked one of the dead innocents, CountArach, what his opinion on the remaining suspects were. He said Ares should be lynched, and I agree. If Ares is innocent, I'll take the blame.

unvote: Sasaki
vote: Ares

Consulting a confirmed innocent? This really smells like pizza was anxious about breaking the tie, and wanted an excuse. His reasoning for backing off boudica is shifty as well. I shall have to reread with this in mind, and take a look at pizza's case on boudica today to see if it still makes sense for them as partners.

[ULC]

I understand, and technically, that attribute should be added to the case against Sasaki. However, you have had 5 days since the end of psychomafia to quickly and easily catch up, yet you haven't. Do not fault me to much for finding this suspicious, maybe I am OCD about keeping up with the games I play.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki - He's not dead yet. That doesn't make him suspicious by itself, but say, if he was actually on the right track, the mafia would remove him. Sasaki can swing people with his vote - remove that vote, and Sasaki becomes less potent and less convincing, which is good for the mafia despite possible blame shifting to them. One might say that makes him good lynch bait, but we have two families, meaning that you simply can't take that risk since the other mafia will only be to happy to jump onbaord as a voting block - to retaliate would be to reveal to much. Plus, Sasaki, the whole game, has never been good lynch bait, until now.

In the past, I've always been left alive because when we get to endgame, people will say "sasaki could be fooling us!". Also, killing me confirms my innocence.

LittleGrizzly - I have actually ignored the bantering going back and forth between him and Sasaki. The issue is, LG responses are intune with how he is each game he plays - he is an easy target for an inquisition by someone like Sasaki. He is naturally defensive, refines his responses in an attempt to be clearer each time, has a tendency not to check up on his facts, and is mostly reactive - thats not Godfather material or behavior, especially for this long. The only reason the mafia would keep him alive is as lynch bait, some way for the town to waste their votes, since killing him removes his purpose - to hide behind. Godfathers need to check their facts, and be able to present their case in a good way when questioned - a less then solid defense makes them, and their team, vulnerable to the town and the other mafia. The very reasons Sasaki has been touting as reasons to lynch LG are the very reasons he is not what Sasaki says he is (nor Andres).

I'm interested in what you have to say on this, because it is possible I became blinded. Do you have a specific game you're thinking of that LG responded in a naturally defensive way, with refining and lack of fact checking etc?

[ULC]

In the past, I've always been left alive because when we get to endgame, people will say "sasaki could be fooling us!". Also, killing me confirms my innocence.

Hmm, I haven't looked to hard at your past games, and as I said, it does not make you suspicious in of it's self. However, you hammered day in and day out about LG, reducing the need to keep you alive. The only people who need scream "he's fooling us!" are mafia at this point, but to do so makes one vulnerable and is a weak ploy. An innocent Sasaki at the end has a stronger vote and stronger ability to sway votes, and thus it's making me interested why you are still alive.

I'm interested in what you have to say on this, because it is possible I became blinded. Do you have a specific game you're thinking of that LG responded in a naturally defensive way, with refining and lack of fact checking etc?

A specific game? No, not off the top of my head, but everygame I've ever played with or read about him, he acts extremely defensive. maybe I am wrong here, I'll go look up each and every game he was in (he was in your Kung Fu mafia, correct?), and get back to you. But that is how I view him as of now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

English Mafia

The khaan reveal messes up my english mafia ideas. I put boudica and El Diablo in as top possibilities, but don't have anything substantial on them.

Lord Winter:

My case on Lord Winter is not substantial, largely due to his absence. However, consider the alive list:

Askthepizzaguy--believe to be brendan due to ties with LG, kill choice
LittleGrizzly--innocent result;
GeneralHankerchief--innocent result
Sasaki Kojiro--innocent
Lord Winter
serierkhaan--revealed to have a role other than oswald
Diana Abnoba
boudica--innocent result
El Diablo--innocent result

It comes down to LW vs diana. This post of LW's leads me to believe he could have targeted AVSM that night, this is a typical example of his lurking, and in this post:



He votes a dead man, claims to have not been following the game carefully, but the one thing he does know about is the "finer points" of oswalds kill.

However, the grunts are only important if you can connect them with their godfather in some way, and LW has not posted enough for that. So, on to the Irish.

The Irish Mafia


The first round fake "lynch me":





Complete contradiction. First said he was going to offer himself because we couldn't lynch mafia this early and might lynch a pro town role. Now he says it was "to generate discussion", but that not much discussion has happened...then he says that "what he set out to do has been accomplished", which is why he's now voting for a lurker to get more discussion going. It's clear that "what he set out to do" was make a self lynch situation with the intention of proving he isn't the godfather.

LG votes abstain, with the comment "Getting bored of lynching ATPGuy early on". It's not that he thinks it's a bad idea, he's just "bored with it"...

The Irish mafia Kill choices:

Of interest:

Seamus, given atpg's post here. See a couple posts down from that as well.

Side note: pizza votes andres here for no big reason "surely you can contribute more". Andres is in no danger of being lynched. It was asked earlier what kind of things I saw as connections, well this is one kind, where mafia sometimes refer to their partners in a slightly stilted, unnatural way. It is not in the slightest bit provable so I don't make a case out of it, but I do mention it when I see it. Other kinds of connections are more relevant.

Reenk roink, given pizza guy was convinced he was mafia. It doesn't make sense to kill reenk if you don't believe he's mafia. He draws too much attention.

Khaan.



Again, another person you kill only if you think he's mafia.

The "I was tied with boudica and offered myself up for lynch" argument

It is here that I will halt my summary for a time. Rereading the day where pizza and boudica were tied is making me uneasy. Particularly this post:



Consulting a confirmed innocent? This really smells like pizza was anxious about breaking the tie, and wanted an excuse. His reasoning for backing off boudica is shifty as well. I shall have to reread with this in mind, and take a look at pizza's case on boudica today to see if it still makes sense for them as partners.

Rebuttal:

Hello, Oswald.

[seireikhaan]

I can't believe people aren't going to put Diana to death for her lurking. Its sooooo obvious she's a mafioso...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

More an pizzaguy.

Very nicely done Sasaki. I loved how nice you were to me all game to gain my favor. Should I reveal all your lovely PMs to me? Trying to pass on your veteran wisdom, take me under your wing, Sasaki? Right. That's absolutely Sasaki behavior.

Actually, I tried to make it up to you after coming perilously close to calling you an idiot:

There is literally nothing in this post that makes any sense. You didn't even check when the last time boudica was online. I did it for you: 8:53.

See this is the problem with your play in mafia games. Making careless assumptions and arguments is only half of it, when someone criticizes your argument you don't reconsider, you make great leaps in logic in order to keep your original assumption, even if it requires you to contradict something you said 5 minutes ago. Unless several people criticize your argument in which case you vote yourself and make a lengthy post about how you are in "lurker" mode and that you should just be lynched and start putting everything you say in spoilers.

This is from the day when boudica and pizza were tied briefly.

It is no small wonder that Sasaki didn't go after me for what had to be completely suicidal and bad-townie behavior of saying "please get the votes off of boudica... I think she's innocent..." when I was tied with her. Oh, I must have been your savior, Sasaki and boudica.

The above criticism was directed at you after you backed off boudica. I was trying to get boudica lynched that day. Also, and you noted this yourself at the time, Ituralde was present while ares and boudica were tied and did not vote:

Interesting timing you have, Ituralde.

Showing up a mere 20 minutes before the lynch. What a coincidence.

Sasaki accusing me of being Brendan now, instead of Oswald... that's rich. Why Brendan and not Oswald, as he originally stated? And why lord winter as Oswald?

How would he assume I am Brendan and not Oswald, unless he were Oswald himself? I don't rest my case, but frankly, I can stop here to let it all sink in.

I didn't originally state that you were oswald. I said that you were brendan because: the kill choices made by brendan matched the people you were suspicious of, and because of your connection with andres and little grizzly. You also pursued Ituralde from the get go.

Now I will ask you a question Pizza.

I accused Sasaki of being Oswald, and boudica of being his Godfather partner. I would obviously be more interested in boudica, because Boudica CANNOT be Oswald due to the investigation.

You can lynch me at any time. But you should have done that a LONG time ago. Now it's time to give me one moment to state my case against boudica, and please pay attention to why I am not going after Sasaki yet.

Boudica needs to be properly questioned. If she satisfies my suspicions, Sasaki is next.

Why are you only going after the people you think are English mafia? This is what you just accused me of doing. You even implied that you could rest your case on that point.

Summary on Pizza guy:

1)The day one self lynch was a fake, and his own posts reveal the only point of it was to make him look innocent.
2 &3)In response to my accusation of him today he has made a nonsensical accusation of boudica and I being english mafia. Specifically english mafia, with no mention of who he thinks the irish mafia are.
4)The kill choices of brendan are people pizza guy wanted to kill

[Reenk Roink]

Finally somebody else gets it. I say let Sasaki win even if he is Mafia, if this case gets Atpg lynched (and GH).

[ULC]

Hmm..LG as mafia has a greater tendency to create more lengthy posts, try to refute as many attacks as he sees. The number of points he tries to address increase in frequency the greater the stress he is under as well. HOWEVER - the consistency with which he replies with regards to accuracy is simply based on activity at the time, not with whether he is mafia or town.

Thus, LG may simply be under signifigant pressure this game from you Sasaki, or may be stressed out because he is annoyed. Or he is a Godfather. But we only have 2 Godfathers, and the innocent list from the investigations is still rather long, including GH, Boudica, and LG. LW and ED have never been checked, and you missed your investigation by one night

Why ATPG wasn't checked is beyond me