The Ultimate Battle Turning Unit

[WarpGhost]

I rarely build cavalry or elite infantry; I just find them cost ineffective. So I tend to rely on a combination of archers, phalanx and swamping the enemy from all sides, thus the levie option fits the bill for me.

[Ignopotens]

Indeed, I'm surprised that these two didn't get their own option. Thraikioi Peltastai are also good in that role.

I voted under the "Gesatae/frightening unit" option because it seemed the most related.

[Cute Wolf]

That result of my pool is not too surprising for the first place, the HC are the best choice to wreck enemy line and routing them... but I do surprised when there is no one mention for slings... I can remember when there was a someone call EB with it's slingers from hell...

[Elcmar]

That result of my pool is not too surprising for the first place, the HC are the best choice to wreck enemy line and routing them... but I do surprised when there is no one mention for slings... I can remember when there was a someone call EB with it's slingers from hell...

If you can get slingers around to the back of an enemy, then they'll decimate pretty much anyone with a few volleys, however slingers will always get cut to ribbons in a melee, so cavalry are usually a better option - generally faster for flanking and better in melee

[Aemilius Paulus]

I rarely build cavalry or elite infantry; I just find them cost ineffective. So I tend to rely on a combination of archers, phalanx and swamping the enemy from all sides, thus the levie option fits the bill for me.

Use light cavalry. That is all I use in my current Eperios campaign. Prodromoi and Illyrioi Hippies are relatively cheap (~2.000 mnai), are fast, barely tire and their charges are jut as effective as any other cavalry. Since I never use even the heaviest of my cavalry in melee, light cavalry is all I train.

Nothing in the game beats the effectiveness of a good old-fashioned charge in the rear. It does enormous amount of damage and has routed just about every unit I have ever encountered from the first charge. Fells like cheating, really. Even Triarii and Pezhetairoi, when engaged with another one of my units, can be routed with a single light mounted charge in the back.

On the other hand, surrounding the enemy is slow and often ineffective, especially when done to phalanxes and elites. AP units, with clubs, axes, flaxes, etc solve this, but still, it is unnecessarily inexpedient, which costs you men.

[Cute Wolf]

very sad indeed, the Spartans didn't have the "Frighten" attributes. In their description, the writer said that Spartans does indeed had a frightening effect in enemy morale...

[IrishHitman]

One word:
Companions.

[julius_caesar_the_first]

Heavy cav always does the trick. If I have Geastae I use them in the front lines to scare off the more weak willed troops. Plus they are too hard to kill to keep in reserve. They can hold the line forever to give my cav time to go around the enemy line.

[The Persian Cataphract]

Take a guess at the choice I've picked

[DaciaJC]

Take a guess at the choice I've picked

Well, look at that. I finally see a vote for slingers...

[Andronikos]

I prefer frightening infatry like Celtic champions, rhomphaia guys, peltastai makedonikoi, but also heavy cav. But my cavalry is usualy busy killing archers, heavy non-spear infantry and taking care of already routing units.

[Ibrahim]

Obviously not many people have actually used elephants, it seems. Really the chaos those beasts cause can seriously not be compared to any of the other options in the poll. And don't give me the "elephants die like flies with javelins" or "rout easily with fire" crap, because all other options have their weaknesses

Maion

even though I voted cataphracts, I must point out that I have often used the elephants. the only problem with them IMHO is their vulnerability to javelins and certan types of archers, however as you said yourself, that's normally not a problem. but the reason I did not vote for them for sure is simply one word: cost. think about it; why have a single elephant unit, when 3 or 4 cataphracts/hetairoi can be made in their place? and far more useful and less javelin easy.

Take a guess at the choice I've picked

cabbage?

@frontline44: it can't be slingers-it must be cabbages

[antisocialmunky]

One word:
Companions.

3 Words:
Baktrian Super Heavies.

[Aemilius Paulus]

But my cavalry is usualy busy killing archers, heavy non-spear infantry and taking care of already routing units.

So just train more cavalry . How many mounted units does your normal army have? My armies usually have a mounted general and 4-5 units of horsemen.

[Macilrille]

I personally find that I rarely rout large portions of the enemy army. Probably cause I like to play Roman and kill Hellenes, whose Phalanxes rarely break and rout en masse.

So, usually I get some cavalry behind them (yes I play on huge), to kill off archers and get ready to charge backs while my own missile troops (I just love Accensii and Cretan Archers) take their toll on vulnerable enemies and one or two of the Hellenic archers firing flaming arrows. Meanwhile I use part of my infantry to chuck pilae at them and go in and hold them till I can concentrate on those phalanxes, meanwhile the rest of my infantry flanks the phalangites and makes them walk all over, breaking their line into isolated phalanx. Then I create local quantitative superiority and concentrate on the phalanxes one by one with infantry and Cav. Some will rout, others not, but even repeated massed cavalry charges at their backs rarely makes a line of phalangites break. So I rout/kill them one or two at a time by creating local superiority, using my superior mobility and all the while cursing these AS Graeculi wannabees, and being sorely tempted to Blitz AS instead of fighting 1-3 phalanx battles every turn.

Hence I rarely have a battle-turning unit. It is a combination of slaughter, flaming arrows and cavalry/infantry charges that routs or kills those damn Phalangites.

The Sweboz owns large parts of northern Europe and are killing off all Gauls, so soon I shall be fighting them, perhaps they rout easier.

[satalexton]

Say Maion, I think this barbaroi has never seen a flurry of dory/sarissae/xyston crushing his own kin. Let's be kind and give him a bird's eye view of it!

*impales Macilrille by the groin and lifts him into the sky*

See? it's simple, Sarissae in the middle, poliskrate on the flanks, and the Hetairoi going ALL HEIL MAKEDONIA at the barbaroi's sorry buttocks.

TRUTH AND HOPE TO FATHERLAND!!! ALL HEIL MAKEDONIA!!!

[Macilrille]

Say Maion, I think this barbaroi has never seen a flurry of dory/sarissae/xyston crushing his own kin. Let's be kind and give him a bird's eye view of it!

*impales Macilrille by the groin and lifts him into the sky*

See? it's simple, Sarissae in the middle, poliskrate on the flanks, and the Hetairoi going ALL HEIL MAKEDONIA at the barbaroi's sorry buttocks.

TRUTH AND HOPE TO FATHERLAND!!! ALL HEIL MAKEDONIA!!!

I think I have already commented on this sort of spam somewhere else.

It would instead be interesting to know how you Hellene Lovers fight the various barbarians.

[Andronikos]

So just train more cavalry . How many mounted units does your normal army have? My armies usually have a mounted general and 4-5 units of horsemen.

General + 1-3 cavalry units, depends on mine and enemy factions. Sometimes I have armies composed only of cavalry with few archers and light infantry, in that case I make enemy army route with cavalry.
But good idea, I'll try using light cavalry more.

[Jebivjetar]

1) when playing with Carthage

I usually hold my line with mix of light infantry, kill equites consulares with my superior calvary, and then hit romans from the back and rear with elephants and/or other calvary. Iberi Caetrati are the best for pursuing routing pedites extraordinari and their cowardly comrades. Rarely some romans actually escape from me, and, if some of them escape, they go to their barbaropolis, which i sack in next turn

2) when playing with KH/Makedonia/Epeiros

I just let romans to taste my sarissas in their mouth. Then i tell them a joke, and they really do lough bloody.

[risker]

I think mobbing them with levies or just plain barbarian units like celtic spearmen can be effective for an enemy route. otherwise, in the campaign game, i train a unit of those hoplites just to scare the senses out of those guys

[R-Teen]

With the charge of the Pushtigbane Pahlavan.

[MerlinusCDXX]

Ye olde Parthian 1-2 punch. (pincushion/ Grivpanzer combo)

Needless to say...I picked the Katatank charge.

[satalexton]

Elephantes Kataphraktoi: Your Number 1 source of finely grounded barbaroi. Cans and preservatives sold seperately. Batteries not included.

[heldelance]

Birthday suits for the win!!!

[Zett]

It would instead be interesting to know how you Hellene Lovers fight the various barbarians.

As far as I know there is only one barbarian faction in EB, but perhaps you meant Barbarian Ivasion, there you have two barbarian factions of course.
Sorry couldn't resist

About Elephants. I used them sometimes as Epeiros, but they are to expensive and need too much baby-sitting in my opinion. So I stick to cavalery, Prodromoi are a fine unit. If I play as KH, I use Hippeis Xystophoroi (how I already posted).
About the Elephantes Kataphraktoi, I only used them once in my Baktrian Campaign, they where good, but expensive and slow. The main problem I have with elephants is their limited AoR.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[satalexton]

As far as I know there is only one barbarian faction in EB, but perhaps you meant Barbarian Ivasion, there you have two barbarian factions of course.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

WELL SAID! =D

Here, have Sōkrátēs Notice how you are gaining in ownership of civillized balloons =]

[Maion Maroneios]

even though I voted cataphracts, I must point out that I have often used the elephants. the only problem with them IMHO is their vulnerability to javelins and certan types of archers, however as you said yourself, that's normally not a problem. but the reason I did not vote for them for sure is simply one word: cost. think about it; why have a single elephant unit, when 3 or 4 cataphracts/hetairoi can be made in their place? and far more useful and less javelin easy.

I believe this thread isn't about the cost-effectiveness of units, but their actual ability to cause mass routs and turn the tide during battle. Regardless of cost, whatever anyone says, elephants are just the best. NO other unit can cause, after being properly used of course, as much amok as elephants do.

As for your post satalexton, I'm sorry I can't say anything. I promised the Nice Fairy I'll be a good boy and behave.

Maion

[Macilrille]

I believe this thread isn't about the cost-effectiveness of units, but their actual ability to cause mass routs and turn the tide during battle. Regardless of cost, whatever anyone says, elephants are just the best. NO other unit can cause, after being properly used of course, as much amok as elephants do.

As for your post satalexton, I'm sorry I can't say anything. I promised the Nice Fairy I'll be a good boy and behave.

Maion

LOL, thanks ;-)

But I would like to know how to best use Hellene armies, they are far too immobile for my taste. How do you Hellene Lovers most effectively employ the grinding force of the Phalanx? Just pin the enemy (literally) and flank them with cavalry? What about your skirmishers? Archers?

[Jebivjetar]

This is how i lead battles with Hellenic armies:

1) First line: phalanx: engage the enemy and pin them, or let the enemy to engage phalanx. In most cases (especially when fighting romans), enemy is having some reserves in the back.

2) For this enemy reserves im using my slingers: their task is to shoot at them while they go right-left and trying to find place to engage my phalanx. Sometimes, i send some non phalanx spearmen (levy hoplites, heavy spearman) to engage enemy reserves. At this time my calvary walks around and eventually fight generals/ other enemy calvary.

3) i use heavy peltasts to throw their javelins in the back of enemies who engaged my phalanx. When they run aut of ammo, i attack with them on points where enemy seem to break first. I use my calvary on points where my phalanx is about to loose. With addition of some extra light infantry i attack in front of engaged enemy.

4) Light calvary/missle calvary i use to pursue routing enemies.

5) sometimes its good to have one or two phalanx units in the back of main phalanx: because you never know if some enemy unit succeed to find its path to back of main phalanx.

[Zett]

But I would like to know how to best use Hellene armies, they are far too immobile for my taste. How do you Hellene Lovers most effectively employ the grinding force of the Phalanx? Just pin the enemy (literally) and flank them with cavalry? What about your skirmishers? Archers?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As KH I usually deploy my troops like this or something similar. If the enemy come closer I order my Spendonetai behind my Phalanx (if I'm on higher ground and do not hit my own troops, I continue fiering from this position). My Hippies Xystophoroi (or any other cavalry) normally waits at the flanks or is hidden in a small forest nearby and waits until the biggest part of the enemy is fighting with my Phalangitai and charges then (battle turning moment). Toxotai are ordered to shoot at enemies with no armor, like other skirmisher and cavalry (if they have a higher ground bonus).

Never attack with an Phalanx army
NEVER attack if you fight a bridgebattle (only if you have a second crossing, but even then...)
NEVER attack an enemy Phalanx army if they have higher ground

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam