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Thread: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

  1. #121
    Swarthylicious Member Spino's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Speaking purely as to his political career Specter had to ditch the party because he was about to get plastered in next year's primary...

    From March 19 – 23, Quinnipiac University surveyed 1,056 Pennsylvania voters with a margin of error of +/- 3 percentage points. The survey includes 423 Republicans with a margin of error of +/- 5 percentage points.

    1. (If registered Republican) If the 2010 Republican primary for United States Senator were being held today and the candidates were Arlen Specter and Pat Toomey, for whom would you vote?

    Reg Reps

    Specter 27%
    Toomey 41%
    SMONE ELSE(VOL) 2
    WLDN'T VOTE(VOL) 2
    DK/NA 28


    Here's the whole thing....

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    This poll was released in March. All results have been released and can be used at any time.
    THIS IS NOT A CNN POLL!!!!!
    See attached documents for the complete results. Here are a few highlights:
    From March 19 – 23, Quinnipiac University surveyed 1,056 Pennsylvania voters with a margin of error of +/- 3 percentage points. The survey includes 423 Republicans with a margin of error of +/- 5 percentage points.
    1. (If registered Republican) If the 2010 Republican primary for United States Senator were being held today and the candidates were Arlen Specter and Pat Toomey, for whom would you vote?
    Reg
    Reps
    Specter 27%
    Toomey 41
    SMONE ELSE(VOL) 2
    WLDN'T VOTE(VOL) 2
    DK/NA 28
    2. Is your opinion of - Arlen Specter favorable, unfavorable or haven't you heard enough about him?
    Tot Rep Dem Ind Men Wom
    Favorable 45% 29% 60% 41% 44% 46%
    Unfavorable 31 47 16 35 36 25
    Hvn't hrd enough 21 23 20 19 16 25
    REFUSED 3 1 4 5 3 4
    TREND: Is your opinion of - Arlen Specter favorable, unfavorable or haven't you heard enough about him?
    Mar 25 Nov 26 Aug 5
    2009 2008 2008
    Favorable 45% 56 55
    Unfavorable 31 23 26
    Hvn't hrd enough 21 19 16
    REFUSED 3 3 3
    3. Is your opinion of - Pat Toomey favorable, unfavorable or haven't you heard enough about him?
    Tot Rep Dem Ind Men Wom
    Favorable 14% 24% 4% 18% 20% 9%
    Unfavorable 6 2 9 4 8 4
    Hvn't hrd enough 78 73 85 76 70 85
    REFUSED 2 1 2 2 2 2
    11. If the 2010 election for United States Senator were being held today, do you think you would vote for Arlen Specter, the Republican candidate, or for the Democratic candidate?
    Tot Rep Dem Ind Men Wom
    Specter 31% 47% 24% 23% 32% 31%
    Democrat 33 17 48 35 36 31
    DK/NA 35 36 27 42 32 38
    22. Senator Arlen Specter was one of only three Republican Senators to vote for President Obama's stimulus package. Do you approve or disapprove of Arlen Specter voting for President Obama's stimulus package?
    Tot Rep Dem Ind Men Wom
    Approve 59% 25% 87% 56% 60% 58%
    Disapprove 36 70 6 38 38 33
    DK/NA 6 5 7 6 2 9
    Last edited by Spino; 04-28-2009 at 20:28.
    "Why spoil the beauty of the thing with legality?" - Theodore Roosevelt

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  2. #122
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    So once the Al Franken selective vote-counting is rubber stamped, how long before the Republican party is outlawed?
    Last edited by Don Corleone; 04-28-2009 at 21:23.
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  3. #123
    Swarthylicious Member Spino's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Looks like it's time to get rid of Olympia Snowe as well:

    Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine, one of the few remaining moderate Republicans in the Senate, said Tuesday that Arlen Specter’s abandonment of the GOP is "devastating," both "personally and I think for the party."

    "I’ve always been deeply concerned about the views of the Republican Party nationally in terms of their exclusionary policies and views towards moderate Republicans," said Snowe, who has been approached, she said, by Democrats in the past about switching parties.

    Specter’s switch to the Democratic Party "underscores the blunt reality" that the GOP is not a welcome place for moderates, she said.

    So far, she said, she’s staying put. "I believe in the traditional tenets of the Republican Party: strong national defense, fiscal responsibility, individual opportunity. I haven’t abandoned those principles that have been the essence of the Republican Party. I think the Republican Party has abandoned those principles."

    -edit-

    While you're at it, give Lindsay Graham the heave-ho:

    "I don't want to be a member of the Club for Growth,” said Graham. “I want to be a member of a vibrant national Republican party that can attract people from all corners of the country — and we can govern the country from a center-right perspective.”

    “As Republicans, we got a problem,” he said.
    With Specter his indictment of the Republican party for moving away from its principles rings hollow and false because he's clearly looking to preserve his seat and remain attached to the teat which has fed him so well throughout his political career. I mean, if he was really upset about the Republican party moving away from his principles the last party he would join would be the Democratic party of the post-Vietnam era.

    I need to know what the definition of a moderate entails, especially to these politicians. It seems to me that the trendy definition of a moderate being bandied is anyone who happen to throw their lot in with Obama during election year 2008. Talk about a mountainous pile of steaming bull excrement. I hardly think people who believe creating a mountain of debt by borrowing and printing more money and throwing it at bigger government vis a vis bureaucracy and enormous bailout bills of dubious distinction (bills that few politicians bothered to read) fall even remotely under the definition of a moderate politician. If I recall the bailout bills, even those passed prior to the market meltdown (anyone remember that lovely little $300B Farm Bill?), were rather unpopular. That's hardly a moderate, populist stance, is it?

    The Republican party is definitely in trouble but the problem isn't with conservatives, it's with people who call themselves conservatives and support and/or run as conservative politicians who proceed to do decidedly unconservative things once in office (i.e. Neo-Con Republicans and RINOs). If the Bush administration had made more than a token gesture towards conservatism it would have left office with a much higher approval rating. Smaller government, lower taxes, limited spending, and not engaging in aggressive geopolitical shenanigans (i.e. nation building in the Middle East) would have gone over really well with the public.
    Last edited by Spino; 04-28-2009 at 21:44.
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  4. #124
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    The Republicans have been opposing Specter for years, more and more each year. The Democratic party put up with Joe Lieberman for far longer than they should have because they seem to be more welcoming of opposing ideas. To me, the Democratic party is much more of a coalition of various smaller parties and minority groups that they have to learn to work together; the Republican party has become progressively (ironic word) more conservative and more homogenized. The recent faces of the Republican party seem to be an attempt to hide the fact that it seems to be a party of middle-aged white men and young evangelicals only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    I can always count on you for a tu quoque argument. And I can only imagine how Repubs would have responded if, say, Tom DeLay campaigned for Kerry and made a speech at the Dem convention. And then let's say DeLay lost his primary, and ran as an Indie. If anything, allowing Lieberman to hold his seniority and committees illustrates my points about the Dems (weak and resilient) rather than otherwise. (Still waiting to see a Dem run to the Daily Show to apologize for daring to criticize Jon Stewart, but really, he's just the same as Rush Limbaugh! No, really he is!)
    While the two of you are busy patting each other on the back for being so open-minded and tolerant, I'd like to call your attention to a new powerful PAC that has sprung up... one that is dedicated to identifying Democrats who aren't Left enough in their views, recruiting primary opponents to run against them, then hammer them with Union and special interest money in their primary campaigns. They're known as Accountability NowThey're going after the real scum of the Earth, guys like Ben Nelson and Walt Miinick. Their offense? These two dared question the 785 billiion stimulus bill and had the audacity to ask for details.....
    Last edited by Don Corleone; 04-28-2009 at 21:48.
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  5. #125
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Good Riddance
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  6. #126
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone View Post
    While the two of you are busy patting each other on the back for being so open-minded and tolerant
    Open minded and tolerant: dirty words?

    The more shrill the voices from the Republican side, the less I listen.
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  7. #127
    Swarthylicious Member Spino's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Open minded and tolerant: dirty words?

    The more shrill the voices from the Republican side, the less I listen.
    $5 says you'll be one of them in four years' time.
    "Why spoil the beauty of the thing with legality?" - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Though Adrian did a brilliant job of defending the great man that is Hugo Chavez, I decided to post this anyway.. - JAG (who else?)

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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by Spino View Post
    $5 says you'll be one of them in four years' time.
    Why is that? The Republicans were once a party I admired; they talked a good game about values and fiscal prudence. Now, the people who actually lived up to those values are gone.

    Palin and Jindal and Steele and all the current Republican leaders are getting more and more shrill, absurd, and less and less in touch with reality. I can barely find a single Republican voice that represents small government values and protections regarding privacy. In fact, under the last administration, which the current leadership is more and more like, we saw government size exploding, spending exploding, and privacy disappearing.

    The current Republican party is not a big tent. It's a series of tubes.
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  9. #129
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    The current Republican party is not a big tent. It's a series of tubes.
    Any excuse is sufficient to re-link to Senator Ted Stevens' masterpiece.

  10. #130
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    To be honest; it's a funny reference but I feel bad hammering him about it. I get what he was saying; it was in the metaphorical sense. It didn't really deserve the constant rolling of the eyes.

    Of more concern is the criminal complaints against him which got dismissed due to a technicality. I have no doubt in my mind that he was guilty. Yeah yeah yeah, err on the side of caution, let the criminal go free because his rights were barely trodden upon. Whatever, I support that. But seriously, that doesn't make him an innocent man in my eyes. It means the law can't touch him. Anyone who wants that man in office is a fool, in my opinion. But we can get into who thinks who is a fool because as soon as I say that, someone will be frothing at the mouth over some recent democratic scandal, as if that makes things all better.

    Can't we just agree to toss the bums and extremists out on their arses?
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  11. #131
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Open minded and tolerant: dirty words?

    The more shrill the voices from the Republican side, the less I listen.
    You misunderstood me, and I apologize for the offense you must have taken from that reading.

    I'm not saying that open minded and tolerant are bad things, or that you and Lemur are somehow wrong for embracing those things. I think it's quite noble. My only point is that while YOUR intentions are noble, the party you're siding with is showing no such sign of magnamity. Taking a textbook play from the Republicans ala 2002, the Democrats are running a witch-hunt to purge those considered not ideologically suited to the current dominant role they now hold.

    I was opposed to it when the Republicans did it, for practical reasons (no lead is ever enough cushion) as well as for fairness (talk about screwing those who've helped you get where you are) and philospophical grounds. And I'm opposed to it now that the Democrats are doing it. The only bright side is that it serves as its own term-limit... as the Democrats continue to shove people out the door, they'll find their majority shrink.

    As somebody else said... rinse, lather, repeat....
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
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  12. #132
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone View Post
    You misunderstood me, and I apologize for the offense you must have taken from that reading.

    I'm not saying that open minded and tolerant are bad things, or that you and Lemur are somehow wrong for embracing those things. I think it's quite noble. My only point is that while YOUR intentions are noble, the party you're siding with is showing no such sign of magnamity. Taking a textbook play from the Republicans ala 2002, the Democrats are running a witch-hunt to purge those considered not ideologically suited to the current dominant role they now hold.

    I was opposed to it when the Republicans did it, for practical reasons (no lead is ever enough cushion) as well as for fairness (talk about screwing those who've helped you get where you are) and philospophical grounds. And I'm opposed to it now that the Democrats are doing it. The only bright side is that it serves as its own term-limit... as the Democrats continue to shove people out the door, they'll find their majority shrink.

    As somebody else said... rinse, lather, repeat....

    I'm not rooting for the Democrats, either. I think the political party system is offensive.

    How about people go to congress with good intentions, do some bloody work, vote, and then go home without accepting a paycheck, like the original congress did?

    Send me to washington. I won't leave my office except to vote or go to the bathroom and I'll work for free. I'm not married, I have no kids, and I have no love for either party. I'll also vote however the majority of my constituents want me to vote (unless it's something I just cannot do in good conscience), while using my bully pulpit to advocate for certain causes, but not injecting ideology into my job, which is simply to represent the people.

    I'd do it but I don't do public speaking and I refuse to fundraise, so... there goes that idea.
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  13. #133
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone View Post
    Taking a textbook play from the Republicans ala 2002, the Democrats are running a witch-hunt to purge those considered not ideologically suited to the current dominant role they now hold.
    I seriously doubt that the Dems have the tenacity or the guts to conduct a proper purge. I also don't think they have the organizational mechanisms. So you found a PAC that wants to challenge Dems in primaries from the left, and from this you conclude ... what? Call me when the PAC actually has success, or gains any sort of tangible power. They can't all be AIPAC or the NRA, you know.

    There are little PACs all over the place, including those that support farther-left Dems and farther-right Repubs. It's a question of money and influence.

    The Club for Growth, for example, has been cited several times in the Specter aftermath. I believe the man who was going to be his primary challenger is the founder of that PAC/thinktank/whatever. Let me know when the PAC you're citing has fielded a primary challenger who looks like s/he can unseat a sitting congresscritter.

    Remember, the DNC backed Lieberman fully until he lost his own primary. There was no move from within the Dem machinery to oust him; that was handled by the primary voters in his home state.
    Last edited by Lemur; 04-29-2009 at 05:19.

  14. #134
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Fence-Sitters are the ones who sway with the breeze. They join parties when they are so popular that their voices will be drowned out, but at the perfect time when there is nowhere to go but down.

    As it has been said, certain posters lambasting the GOP today will be the ones lambasting the Dems in 8 years.

    It's as easy as it is pathetic to kick a dog lying down.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 04-29-2009 at 04:57.
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  15. #135
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    There are very few Rocky Marcianos in politics. Mostly they're like Ali, or Charles, or Leonard, or Louis. They crave the political spotlight -- the power, the sense of DOING something that matters -- more than any methamphetimine addict craves their next dose. And just like the great boxers I mentioned, most of them hang on for "one more term" long after it makes sense, long after their "era" has passed, and mostly long past the peak of their abilities. Byrd should have been done 15 years ago. John Warner should have wrapped up a term...maybe two...earlier. Kennedy should have stopped before this last term. Churchill shouldn't have been booted in 1945, but should have opted out on his own by about 1950. Very few of them sense that the next few years will tarnish what they have done and end it at the right moment.

    Specter has had a remarkable career. He's been in the Senate my entire adult life. He fought the good fight, followed his conscience even when he knew it would vex party colleagues. But now, retaining the Senate is more important than what he'll do when he retains it. Like Ali, he thinks he's got one more comeback in him.



    The GOP is engaged in an inevitable tightening of the ranks. Virtually all of its critics assert that making moderates uncomfortable and marginalizing them is a sign of the end. That you cannot be a national party unless you are inclusive. This may be true. It is also true, however, that the GOP over the last 10 years did NOT cater effectively or consistently to its base. Which trend is the real harbinger of doom? I think inclusiveness does matter, but the way most critics define it is NOT the way I think it would work best for the GOP.

    I would assert that neither is the real problem. Sen. Snowe knocked out the answer smoothly and at least 2 shots under par (though I add a 2 stroke penalty for using the now cliched "they left me" variant. The real problem is that the GOP has no central message that motivates all of its policies and efforts.

    How can someone be a RINO when most of the red-dog GOPpers can't tell you what the party is really all about? Are we fiscal conservatives? Then maybe fighting for spending cuts and limiting taxes or reforming taxes would be a good idea. Are we social conservatives? If so, then an all out effort to abolish abortion and codify morality should be made. Are we constitutionalists? If so, we should be paring back the powers and role of the fed government; bringing the military back down to a large cadre size and pulling out of world policing as rapidly as possible?

    In short, the GOP has no core. It will not have one until a person or persons come along who, though politicians, seek to teach others why the GOP way is best and make the tent bigger not by watering down the message but by demonstrating its broad appeal -- of course, knowing the message you believe in would help a bit in that endeavor.

    You want to be a vague coalescence of fellow travelers and thus appeal to a broad swath of society by carefully juggling between/catering to the various little splinters of belief and opinion? Fine, go join the Democrats.

    The GOP has been playing that game for the last 12 years or so, but its not their game and I find little surprise in the fact that the Dems do it better.
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Any excuse is sufficient to re-link to Senator Ted Stevens' masterpiece.
    I was enjoyed this one the best.

    http://tinyurl.com/2j3rvz


  17. #137
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff View Post
    Fence-Sitters are the ones who sway with the breeze. They join parties when they are so popular that their voices will be drowned out, but at the perfect time when there is nowhere to go but down.

    As it has been said, certain posters lambasting the GOP today will be the ones lambasting the Dems in 8 years.

    It's as easy as it is pathetic to kick a dog lying down.
    I disagree. I sit on the fence so to speak because I don't want to confine myself to either partisan yard. I prefer to support my principles and/or vote out losers who turn my country into a hole, no matter their political affiliation.

    I may indeed want many of the Dems tossed out on their butts in less than 8 years, but I guarantee you, I've done nothing because it was hip or popular. I 'joined' with the democrats by voting Obama as a registered independent because I wanted no one who had anything to do with the Bush administration's policies or supporters of that philosophy to keep power. McCain wasn't different enough in my opinion, and most of the nation's. Obama was different. And if Obama had presented a plan I thought we didn't need, I'd have voted Republicans in congress to stonewall his ideas and plans and at least maintain the status quo. But the current status quo sucks the big fat wet one, and I'd particularly appreciate a change and some reform. Since the Republicans will only stonewall, they won't do anything that Obama wants to do, (as expected) I decided to also vote for the Democrats for congress and Senate. Maybe that way something will get done. I don't want deadlocks and filibusters right now, we need leadership and a change in leadership. Only Obama and the democrats offered that.

    Now, in the 2010 elections, I'll see what my representatives did, and if I don't like it, I'll vote for whomever else is running.

    Rant spoilered for your protection.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    It's not the GOP I am bashing, but their leadership which doesn't know how to lead, their campaigning which is all negative and not constructive, and their failed ideas. Give me different leaders and new ideas, more moderate ones, and I'll vote for them in a heartbeat. I want a balanced budget and the Democrats won't give me one. Give me a balance budget candidate, one that doesn't harm education and healthcare in the process, and one that might end all these wars, and that would be a better candidate than Obama.

    Until that person appears, and it's not McCain, Palin, Jindal, Steele, or any other current Republican leader, I will be opposing their efforts to toss a monkey wrench into the efforts of the Democrats. With a broken Republican party of no ideas, you'd better hope to your God that Obama succeeds in something. We don't need another 8 years of failure and corruption. I'll take success, thank you; even if it means running a deficit for a while. Especially if that money is mostly spent on helping the sick and those seeking education.

    Honestly, the thing which got me to vote for Obama wasn't Obama. I was wary of his lofty promises and slick public speaking ability and charm. Seemed to be all flash and no substance. I liked McCain, a lot. I liked his appearances on the Daily Show, I liked his experience, his bipartisanship, and he seemed to be modest and also a war hero. What's not to like?

    He flushed all that down the drain with his vicious, partisan, negative, Palin-filled campaign. As soon as he picked Palin I ran like hell. But what cinched it was the negativity and the failure in the debates. They had no ideas that they could express which gave me any confidence that they knew what they were doing. Even the ILLUSION of leadership is better than none. Confidence is important in government. It was all about confidence and trust.

    McCain didn't make me confident anymore about halfway through his campaign. I didn't trust him anymore after his Palin pick which was just a nod to the evangelicals, nothing more; I didn't trust him after his constant negative campaign ads. I didn't trust him after his debates. Now McCain is gone and Palin, the whole reason he lost the election, is still around. Palin is a curse which will destroy the Republican party; she represents everything that is wrong with it. The rhetoric of a "real" and "fake" America, the blatant disingenuous sucking up to "regular ol' Joe Six-Pack", the childish debating tactics, the smears, the false piety and the nod to religion without actually practicing what she preaches, her blatantly hypocritical positions on socialism, all flash and no substance, painted-on smile, blaming everything on the Federal government while getting tons in bailout money, claiming to be against the bridge to nowhere (after being for it), the scandals (I honestly don't care about the scandals. After you're this far into my why-I-don't-like-you list, scandals don't even affect my opinion anymore)... Steele with his nearly heroic standing up to Limbaugh before he crumbled and apologized... what a wuss.

    In short (too late) the Republicans are a leaderless bunch of hypocritical fakes who have no ideas and a lot of partisan demagoguery. They are a stonewall to progress and a damaging influence on the country at large, taking credit for our successes, blocking further progress, taking bailout money while criticizing it, not paying their fair share of the federal budget without getting a huge chunk of it right back in pork spending. They tore the budget to shreds and are now criticizing Obama on spending. They frankly piss me off at this point. They aren't even close to legitimate, loyal opposition anymore. They used to be; they used to stand for something. What do they stand for? What are their ideals, now? WHAT ARE THEY?

    I can't tell you because I don't know. I thought we were supposed to support our president in a time of war, they said so. Now they say they hope he fails. I thought we were supposed to support the government in its efforts to save the country; but apparently not when it comes to paying your fair share in taxes or ensuring that we protect human rights and detainee rights, or providing economic stimulus or reforming healthcare, or getting more interested in alternative energies or restoring environmental protections. Balancing the budget? That's the goal but we are at war, and hopefully that will be over soon but even the Republicans say you can't just pack up and leave today. So the war will drain our economy to the tune of hundreds of billions. We have serious economic problems now due to greed and deregulation, and are we supposed to just sit by when millions go unemployed? Should we do nothing to solve our banking crisis or our automobile companies collapsing? Should we do nothing but "drill baby drill" when it comes to energy, aside from building more nuclear power plants?

    Argh... nevermind. I could rant all day long and all night and I could barely scratch the surface of what's wrong with the Republican party, and since between the two parties I only see one of them giving an honest attempt to solve these problems, the fact that the Democrats aren't ideal and perfect doesn't even enter into my mind. Democrats could be banging interns and having sex with prostitutes and even embezzling money at this point; as long as the country gets back on track again, I couldn't care less what they do or how they do it. I just want things to improve on most fronts; the war coming to an end, the budget getting balanced, unemployment to turn around, the housing crisis to turn around, the credit crisis to turn around, the banking crisis to turn around, American industries to return, national debt being paid off, more funding for college or at least the same, more funding for healthcare or at least the same, and no major screwups like terrorist attacks or nuclear meltdowns or Katrina-style hurricanes going largely ignored. (PS- Ray Nagin and that former Louisiana Governor, Democrats both, don't deserve to ever serve in politics again... I don't care which party they are from).


    Rant rant rant... Republicans need new leadership and new direction, less posturing and negativity and more ideas and cooperation, less absurd arguments, less partisan bickering, less wingnuts and more genuine values. Until that happens I will vote against them, plain and simple. Welcome, Arlen Specter, you were one of the Republicans I could count on to work in the best interest of the nation, not suck up to the Party. I want you in office and I don't care what you register as. Register as an independent, or as a Mouseketeer, I don't care. Continue serving, because you're a breath of fresh air in this mindlessly partisan congress.
    Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 04-29-2009 at 06:14.
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  18. #138
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Nate Silver uses data to show what type of Democrat Specter will be...
    I've now had the chance to examine the data on party-switching in more detail. When Congressmen have changed parties in the past, this has generally been accompanied by relatively material changes in their voting patterns -- thus, Democrats have ample reason to be pleased. Nevertheless, odds are that Specter will line up squarely in the conservative half of the Democratic caucus and will probably leave room to his left for a primary challenge.
    [...]
    All of the party-switchers moved toward the direction of their (new) party caucus after making the change, although with somewhat varying degrees of magnitude. California's Matthew Martinez, for instance, who had not been an exceptionally moderate Democrat, turned all the way into a rather run-of-the-mill Republican. On the other end of the spectrum, you'd have had to look pretty hard to find issues on which Congressman Gene Atkinson of Pennsylvania was voting differently after becoming a Republican in 1981.
    [...]
    There are both aggravating and mitigating circumstances that may affect Specter's positioning. On the one hand, he seems to have made the switch more or less unabashedly for electoral reasons, even alluding to the polling in his statement today. This suggests that he'll be no more and no less Democratic than he can get away with. On the other hand, the parties are now more polarized than they once were, and so crossing the aisle may mean more than it once did. Prior to this party-switch, Specter's DW-NOMINATE scores had gradually been moving away from the center as it had become harder to stake out a position as a moderate Republican.
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  19. #139
    Swarthylicious Member Spino's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    There are very few Rocky Marcianos in politics. Mostly they're like Ali, or Charles, or Leonard, or Louis. They crave the political spotlight -- the power, the sense of DOING something that matters -- more than any methamphetimine addict craves their next dose. And just like the great boxers I mentioned, most of them hang on for "one more term" long after it makes sense, long after their "era" has passed, and mostly long past the peak of their abilities. Byrd should have been done 15 years ago. John Warner should have wrapped up a term...maybe two...earlier. Kennedy should have stopped before this last term. Churchill shouldn't have been booted in 1945, but should have opted out on his own by about 1950. Very few of them sense that the next few years will tarnish what they have done and end it at the right moment.

    Specter has had a remarkable career. He's been in the Senate my entire adult life. He fought the good fight, followed his conscience even when he knew it would vex party colleagues. But now, retaining the Senate is more important than what he'll do when he retains it. Like Ali, he thinks he's got one more comeback in him.



    The GOP is engaged in an inevitable tightening of the ranks. Virtually all of its critics assert that making moderates uncomfortable and marginalizing them is a sign of the end. That you cannot be a national party unless you are inclusive. This may be true. It is also true, however, that the GOP over the last 10 years did NOT cater effectively or consistently to its base. Which trend is the real harbinger of doom? I think inclusiveness does matter, but the way most critics define it is NOT the way I think it would work best for the GOP.

    I would assert that neither is the real problem. Sen. Snowe knocked out the answer smoothly and at least 2 shots under par (though I add a 2 stroke penalty for using the now cliched "they left me" variant. The real problem is that the GOP has no central message that motivates all of its policies and efforts.

    How can someone be a RINO when most of the red-dog GOPpers can't tell you what the party is really all about? Are we fiscal conservatives? Then maybe fighting for spending cuts and limiting taxes or reforming taxes would be a good idea. Are we social conservatives? If so, then an all out effort to abolish abortion and codify morality should be made. Are we constitutionalists? If so, we should be paring back the powers and role of the fed government; bringing the military back down to a large cadre size and pulling out of world policing as rapidly as possible?

    In short, the GOP has no core. It will not have one until a person or persons come along who, though politicians, seek to teach others why the GOP way is best and make the tent bigger not by watering down the message but by demonstrating its broad appeal -- of course, knowing the message you believe in would help a bit in that endeavor.

    You want to be a vague coalescence of fellow travelers and thus appeal to a broad swath of society by carefully juggling between/catering to the various little splinters of belief and opinion? Fine, go join the Democrats.

    The GOP has been playing that game for the last 12 years or so, but its not their game and I find little surprise in the fact that the Dems do it better.
    Fiscal conservatism along with the curbing of government powers and size while maintaining a strong, effective military has always worked for the Republicans. Americans almost always vote with their wallets, no matter what their 'ideological slant'. It's been my experience that even the most rabidly liberal Americans bitch and moan about paying taxes and government waste even though they spew endlessly about the marvels of socialized healthcare and all that other nonsense. Basically the Republicans need to silence the social conservatives and put them in the back office where they were during Reagan.

    As to the rabidly social conservatives, well where else are they going to go? They know if they stay at home and grumble about their lack of representation instead of voting the danger of having even more liberal, ACLU inspired whack jobs running the show increases with every election. If they push for an independent candidate they'll still lose and the result would be the same if they stayed at home and didn't vote at all. If you're forced to choose between partying with someone you're indifferent towards or someone you can barely tolerate and/or despise the answer is pretty obvious.
    Last edited by Spino; 04-29-2009 at 19:30.
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  20. #140
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by Spino View Post
    Fiscal conservatism along with the curbing of government powers and size while maintaining a strong, effective military has always worked for the Republicans. Americans almost always vote with their wallets, no matter what their 'ideological slant'. It's been my experience that even the most rabidly liberal Americans bitch and moan about paying taxes and government waste even though they spew endlessly about the marvels of socialized healthcare and all that other nonsense. Basically the Republicans need to silence the social conservatives and put them in the back office where they were during Reagan.

    As to the rabidly social conservatives, well where else are they going to go? They know if they stay at home and grumble about their lack of representation instead of voting the danger of having even more liberal, ACLU inspired whack jobs running the show increases with every election. If they push for an independent candidate they'll still lose and the result would be the same if they stayed at home and didn't vote at all. If you're forced to choose between partying with someone you're indifferent towards or someone you can barely tolerate and/or despise the answer is pretty obvious.

    Social Conservatives ARE the Republican party right now. What the GOP needs is for fiscal and foreign policy conservatives to rally all three and use the bulk of the GOP electorate that is socially conservatives (like it has traditionally done.)

    Purely social conservatives nobody has any use for in executive office, just like nobody has any use for exclusivly militaristic dynamos. Social conservatism gives the GOP heart, Fiscal gives us brains and Military gives us brawn. The brain should be the core, but the others are just as important in their own way.

    I like Romney because he gets this. He reminds me of a better spoken Bush Senior with more of an economic edge.

    I hope that he is able to help re-prioritize the party. I can only hope for someone who is sympathetic to the pro-life cause - I wouldn't want to see someone like my mother in the oval.
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  21. #141
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Since the social and war conservatives' agendas are absolutely opposed to fiscal responsibility, I don't really see the point in rallying to them.
    Last edited by Alexander the Pretty Good; 04-29-2009 at 21:13.

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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    I believe in the strongest military that we can have with as little expense as possible.

    I support ideas like this:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Buy Ford, Not Ferrari
    By Commander Henry J. Hendrix, U.S. Navy

    If the Navy rethinks the role of Carrier Strike Groups (Ferrari) and deploys new, scaled-down Influence Squadrons (Ford), the result will be 320 hulls in the water for three-quarters the price

    One of the strengths of the U.S. Navy is its traditions and adherence to form and structure. It is also one of its weaknesses, because in its dedication to what is known, it tends to overlook the possibility of other options, other futures. Whether it wishes to acknowledge the fact or not, today's Navy finds itself at a strategic inflexion point and must come to grips with the idea that every assumption it has depended on to get it where it is may not take the service to where it needs to go.

    The problems that will have the most impact on the Navy's future force structure are large and can be categorized in two groups. The first is the growing expense of building new ships. The costs involved in research, development, and production of destroyers, cruisers, and carriers, each of which fields new, leading-edge technologies, have placed the price of the future force out of reach, even with four percent of the gross domestic product funding the Department of Defense.
    Second is the growing mismatch between the Navy's strategic vision and its acquisition plan. The new maritime strategy, now just more than a year old, stated that the Navy would be an engagement force just as suited to preventing wars as winning them. The new strategy suggests a larger future force in terms of hulls in the water, and that this force would be more agile and better suited to support missions in the economy-of-force Phase 0-1 range of the engagement scale. Instead, the current long-term Navy shipbuilding plan continues to emphasize the Carrier Strike Group (CSG) construct.
    The CSG has served as the centerpiece of naval force planning for much of the past 60 years. Comprised of an aircraft carrier accompanied by a complement of cruisers, destroyers, frigates, submarines, and support ships, this basic element of the Navy embodies awe-inspiring offensive and defensive power. It has been an extremely effective tool in our nation's military and diplomatic arsenal. But in recent years the range of its capabilities has narrowed, and the Navy is in danger of falling into a situation where, when all you have is a hammer, everything invariably begins to look like a nail.
    Currently the U.S. Navy has 11 CSGs (although it is temporarily seeking permission from Congress to dip below the legislatively mandated 11 carriers to decommission the long-serving USS Enterprise [CVN-65] prior to the USS George H. W. Bush's [CVN-77] entering full service). At a conservative estimated price tag of $30 billion to construct and a daily operating cost in excess of a million dollars, carrier strike groups are quickly becoming prohibitively expensive to both build and deploy. When these characteristics are considered alongside rising threats and increasingly challenging operational environments, even more questions arise.
    New Environment

    Submarines have become the international flavor-of-the-month with regard to nation-state security. Relatively inexpensive export diesel submarine variants from Europe and Australia now provide a credible defensive capability to any country with an ocean shoreline. Torpedoes launched from these boats, and shore- and ship-based missiles can sink outright most of the world's surface combatants and would, at least, significantly degrade the mission effectiveness of American super-carriers.
    The rise of these threats over the past three decades has forced the Navy to emphasize the defensive capabilities of the carrier force, giving rise to the "anti" warfare commanders (antisubmarine, antisurface, and antiair). This emphasis on defensive capabilities occurred even as the effectiveness of the carrier's striking power has noticeably waned. The venerable deep-strike A-6 Intruder and the long-range F-14 interceptor have vanished into the boneyard with their spots on the flight deck taken by the F/A-18 Hornet variants, which were intended to be replacements for the A-4 and A-7 short- and medium-range light attack aircraft.
    The decisions that led to the current strategic condition have left us with a force that must operate at increased range from our adversaries in order to be safe (and preserve our expensive platforms), even as our striking arm has decreased in its combat radius over time. Hence we find ourselves in a circular argument reminiscent of the late Admiral Hyman Rickover, that "I must defend my force, Sir, so that I can defend my force." The CSG is, remarkably, a construct that can operate effectively only in a permissive environment, or be committed to an anti-access environment only under the most extreme conditions when national interests compel leadership to risk what amounts to a significant percentage of the Navy's annual budget in a single engagement.
    What is needed is a Navy cheap enough to be built in large numbers while remaining sufficiently effective to defend American interests on the high seas. We need Fords, not Ferraris. In keeping with the new maritime strategy, the force should be designed with enough inherent flexibility to respond across the expanse of engagement, from humanitarian assistance missions to long-range precision strike. The Navy's force structure should be organized to maximize the potential of its assets during peacetime, including steady state operations, while also providing a means for swift concentration of credible combat power to meet any emergent major combat operation. It's a pretty tall order, but there is a way.
    Step one is to abandon the idea of a Navy built around 11 or 12 carrier strike groups. These have become too expensive to operate, and too vulnerable to be risked in anything other than an unhostile environment. This is not to say that the carrier strike groups must be done away with, however, but the discussion of how many and where they fit in a new strategy comes later. Suffice it to say, dollars and billets recouped from a lower number of carrier strike groups should be invested in ships that are well suited for low to medium engagement.
    Steady-State Force

    A key tenet of post-9/11 strategic thought is that extremist religious terrorism is avoidable. Societies with infrastructural resources such as electricity, clean water, public education, and some modicum of medical care do not generally incubate extremist groups in their midst. Naval forces that have basic abilities to police the sea lines of communication while also seizing port call opportunities to build the basic communal building blocks of productive life ought to be an important component of the future Navy.
    The next step on the Navy's path to a new future should be the creation of "Influence Squadrons" composed of an amphibious mother ship (an LPD-17 or a cheaper commercial ship with similar capabilities), a destroyer to provide air, surface, and subsurface defensive capabilties, a Littoral Combat Ship to extend a squadron's reach into the green-water environment and provide some mine warfare capabilities, a Joint High Speed Vessel to increase lift, a Coastal Patrol ship to operate close in, and an M80 Stiletto to provide speed and versatility.
    The Influence Squadron should also heavily employ unmanned technologies to further expand the squadron's reach. Unmanned air, surface, and subsurface platforms could be deployed and monitored by the various vessels, extending American awareness, if not American presence.
    These forces, operating every day around the world, would represent the preponderance of visible U.S. naval power. Their understated capabilities would epitomize America's peaceful, non-aggressive intent, and would carry out the new maritime strategy's stated purpose of providing positive influence forward. However, the Influence Squadron, carrying credible firepower across a broad area of operations, could also serve to either dissuade or destroy pirate networks that might seek to prey upon increasingly vulnerable commercial sea lines of communication.
    Creating 16 of these squadrons, ten in the Pacific, six in the Atlantic, would allow the Navy to forward deploy six to eight squadrons at any given time, expanding American influence around the world. Pacific-based squadrons would routinely deploy to the east coast of Africa, the Persian Gulf, the waters off Malaysia to include the Strait of Malacca, the archipelagic waters of Indonesia, the waters in and around the Philippines, and the regional waters near Japan and Korea.
    Atlantic-based squadrons would visit the Caribbean, South America, the north and western coasts of Africa as well as pushing up into the Black Sea to visit Georgia, the Ukraine and other partners in the region. Sometimes, however, Influence Squadrons, no matter how well they are placed, will not have the necessary concentration of capabilities to meet the emergent challenges. It would be at this point that the next force along the scale of naval response would be dispatched.
    Anti-Terrorism Force

    For the past 30 years the Amphibious Ready Group-Marine Expeditionary Unit (ARG-MEU) has served as the basic core unit of America's quick-reaction force in the littorals. In 2001, however, with the announcement of the Sea Power 21 construct, this force underwent an evolutionary change. With the addition of a cruiser, a destroyer, a frigate, a fast-attack submarine, and a flag- or Marine general officer-led staff; the ARG-MEU quickly became an Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG).
    The core characteristic of the ESG lies in the recognition that its Marines and their ability to wage a Four-Block War (from peacekeeping to full-scale house-to-house combat) represented the true strike asset of the formation. Hence, the main advantage of this strike group lies in its Marines and their ability to provide scalability of response across the spectrum of engagement. The scalability of this force and the credible nature of its combative power make the ESG the ideal force of the Department of the Navy in the war on terrorism.
    The new maritime strategy recognizes explicitly that "preventing wars is at least as important as winning them." The prevention of wars can occur in small acts, like Marines and SeaBees building a school or digging a well to provide a village with clean water, or it could involve the medical staff of a hospital ship or a light amphibious squadron inoculating an entire community against polio, measles, mumps, and rubella.
    These things may seem small to Americans—almost assumed aspects of day-to-day life in the United States. But such activities in many communities near the sea will ensure that an entire generation reaches maturity rather than just 50 to 60 percent. The ESG, with the tremendous vertical-lift capability of its embarked Air Combat Element, can also serve as a credible first responder to natural disasters such as tsunamis, earthquakes, or volcanic eruptions (which are more than likely to occur concurrently in the Pacific). The movement of relief supplies and the evacuation of injured, the restriction of piracy, and the protection of American interests, can permanently affect the perception of the United States in regions at strategic crossroads.
    The new maritime strategy also postulates that the U.S. Navy should field a force capable of winning "the long struggle against terrorist networks." Careful consideration of the range of operations to be undertaken within an anti-terrorism campaign leads to a conclusion that the Expeditionary Strike Group can provide theater commanders in the field with a full toolbox of options.
    If it is accepted that the aircraft carrier, with its aviation strike packages, represents the sledgehammer of America's arsenal, then the ESG, with its Tomahawk-firing cruisers and destroyers, as well as its scalable squad-to-battalion Marine force, represent the wrenches, screwdrivers, and pliers within the nation's war on terrorism toolbox. When the introduction of the MV-22 Osprey and the short take-off/vertical landing (STOVL) Joint Strike Fighter is factored into the strategic equation, the ESG represents a force that is ideally structured to counter terrorist actions anywhere from oceanic blue water to ground operations 150-200 miles inland. The flexibility of this unit makes it the ideal candidate to serve as a critical response force, capable of dealing with threats short of those large enough to justify a surge force deployment.
    Surge Force

    The proposed surge force is easily recognizable to the reader as it represents those capabilities currently embedded within the carrier strike force, but rather than taking a posture of regular deployments, the majority of the surge force will be maintained in a high state of readiness at home. To be sure, carrier strike group deployments will still occur, but they will be less frequent and more focused on emergent strategic requirements.
    Instead, the aircraft carriers (nine or ten for the sake of this discussion) and their support ships and airwings will remain in home waters, exercising as required to maintain six CSGs in a high state of combat readiness. The assumption underlying this force is that one carrier will be involved in reactor upkeep, one will be coming home from either a regional deployment or a major international exercise, and another will be on her way out. This leaves roughly six carriers in standby, ready to surge at a moment's notice. Where they surge from is a critical question. A smaller carrier force needs to be redistributed to get the most out of a decreased number of ships.
    Most of America's strategic interests in the decades to come will be in the Asian Pacific region, and that is where the majority of the nation's aircraft carriers should be as well. Of the force of nine or ten carrier strike groups, six should be home ported in the Pacific; two in Bremerton, two in San Diego, one in Japan, and one in another forward base to be determined. The remaining east coast carriers should be strategically dispersed between Norfolk and Mayport. This distribution scheme will both help ensure the survivability of the force against surprise attacks, and cut the transit time to crises around the globe. The bottom line is that the United States should always have six carrier strike groups ready to surge to a point of conflict within 15 to 30 days.
    Another critical component of the surge force will be the Expeditionary Strike Groups and their light amphibious carriers. Long considered to be the central core of the amphibious force, these highly capable aircraft carriers can serve in new roles within surge operations. Assuming one is in dry-dock for maintenance, a force of ten LHAs can provide nine small flattops for surge operations. Five of them will go to sea with their embarked Marine Expeditionary Units serving as their primary strike assets (again, the assumption would be that two of the MEUs would either be deploying or returning from deployment at any given time) while the remaining available LHAs deploy with each of their decks and hangars populated by two squadrons of STOVL Joint Strike Fighters.
    The four LPDs and four LSDs that would have normally deployed with the Joint Strike Fighter-configured LHAs can be allocated to provide such maritime lift as necessary to carry out the Marine Corps' mission. Such a configuration would provide the naval services with a wider, distributed, and more survivable strike capability and joint forcible entry options in an increasingly anti-access environment. The new LHA(R) America-class ships, lacking a well-deck, would seem particularly suited for this STOVL strike carrier role.
    Undersea Warfare

    Another area of focus for the future force should be in undersea warfare. Perhaps no place poses a greater threat to the current U.S. force structure or suggests the greatest potential for improvement in a future Navy than the underwater environment and the vessels that populate it. The first major proposed shift is the inclusion of diesel-powered submarines that incorporate air-independent propulsion (AIP) technologies. These submarines can be purchased for a fraction of the cost of a nuclear-powered fast-attack submarine such as those of the Virginia class.
    Diesel/AIP boats are very quiet, and can be equipped with effective torpedoes, antisurface missiles, and even antiair missiles. These relatively inexpensive yet highly capable subs should replace the Virginia-class boats in the shallow-water environment alongside the new Influence Squadron surface force, allowing the Virginias to concentrate on their antisubmarine warfare mission in the blue-water environment. The one significant drawback of the non-nuclear design is shorter patrol intervals because of limited fuel supply. But this can be offset by forward-basing them near their patrol areas. A number of nations may welcome permanent basing of diesel/AIP submarines but have rejected nuclear-powered submarines in their ports for political reasons.
    Another proposed area of change is the permanent inclusion of guided-missile submarines (SSGNs) in the U.S. inventory. The advantages inherent in the deployment of these concentrated strike packages either in conjunction with a strike group, or by operating alone are only now being recognized. However, the U.S. Navy has made a mistake along the path to an SSGN force by tying the capability to a back-fit program for Ohio-class ballistic-missile submarines. Future guided-missile submarines should be built new as adaptations of the Virginia class, perhaps offsetting the decreased buy of Virginias as the diesel/AIP boats come online.
    The Answer

    There are times, or so it has been said, when quantity has a quality all its own. In the current geostrategic setting, the U.S. Navy needs to be in more places than it has hulls in the water. It has stated that it needs to rise above the 270-odd ships currently in its inventory to meet its commitments.
    The naval services have published a maritime strategy that enunciates what those commitments are, but the Navy's acquisition strategy has failed to align with its strategic goals. Instead of procuring a large number of ships with blunt, effective capabilities to meet the threats of today, the Navy has aligned with the shipbuilding industry to build an entire generation of ships with exquisite technologies that are the very best in the world, but are also so expensive that the Navy can only afford a limited number of hulls.
    It needs ships capable enough to perform basic missions, yet inexpensive enough to buy in large numbers and operate cheaply. Naval planners also have to factor in unmanned technologies that will allow its ships to extend their awareness far beyond the reach of their own sensors. In addition, the Navy needs to dedicate these ships to the current threats of today, not the imagined boogey-men of tomorrow.
    Rampant "next-war-itis" needs to stop, and the Navy needs to commit itself to fighting the very real, and very relevant conflict of today. To be sure, the Navy will need to retain its current, high-end capabilities in such numbers and at such readiness as to dissuade future competitors from entering into conflict with the United States. The data suggest that if the Navy were to pursue a future fleet as described here, with both high- and low-end capabilities in an appropriate ratio, it could have 320 hulls in the water within 12 years for three quarters of the acquisition budget it intends to spend. This represents a net savings of almost five billion dollars a year. Again, I say the Navy needs to buy Fords, not Ferraris.
    CDR Hendrix is the author of "Theodore Roosevelt's Naval Diplomacy" which will be released by Naval Institute Press on May 1st. Hendrix holds a PhD from King's College London, and is a former member of the Institute's editorial board. He is former commanding officer of Tactical Air Control Squadron 11.


    How are social conservatives opposed to fiscal conservatism? It is conservative to believe that Americans shouldn't suckle off the tit of the system, but rather work hard for what you've got. They could go either way, but I don't see why they are more inclined to blow their wallets all over the place.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 04-29-2009 at 23:00.
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  23. #143
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    How are social conservatives opposed to fiscal conservatism? It is conservative to believe that Americans shouldn't suckle off the tit of the system, but rather work hard for what you've got. They could go either way, but I don't see why they are more inclined to blow their wallets all over the place.
    "Compassionate conservatism" isn't well defined, but all its advocates spend like the Dems, so I don't really see the point.

    Meanwhile, the neo-cons think we can invade people on the cheap, so...

  24. #144
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    "Compassionate conservatism" isn't well defined, but all its advocates spend like the Dems, so I don't really see the point.

    Meanwhile, the neo-cons think we can invade people on the cheap, so...

    Because Bush was an idiot, all social conservatives are spendthrifts?
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  25. #145
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Show me a social conservative who opposed Bush's spending, both on welfare programs and bloody foreign wars.

  26. #146
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    I dont think the social conservatives themselves are the problem, I think it was the GOP's over-reliance on them. They seemed to think that they could get by on pandering to them alone and could throw the small government conservatives overboard.

    I think either side trying to drive a wedge between economic conservatives and social conservatives is making a mistake- I believe there is a fair amount of overlap for both groups. I would be case in point on that.
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  27. #147
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Getting back to Senatorial news, there's a multi-layered web of weirdness enfolding David Vitter (R-LA). You may only know Vitter as the diaper-wearing patron of prostitutes, but there's so much more to know about our hero!

    After the many-faceted failures surrounding hurricane Katrina, FEMA has been a bit of a sore point. The Obama administration chose to nominate one Craig Fugate as the new head. I'll let the newspapers take it from here:

    A Louisiana senator is stalling Florida emergency management director Craig Fugate's nomination as head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

    Fugate had sailed through his nomination hearing and Monday cleared the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee by a unanimous voice vote. Republican Sen. David Vitter said, however, that he'd blocked Fugate because of concerns he has with FEMA.

    "I have a hold on the FEMA nomination because I sent a list of hurricane recovery questions and projects to FEMA, many of which have not been adequately addressed," Vitter said in a statement. "I'm eager to get full responses and meet with the nominee immediately."

    The hold -- which comes a month before the start of hurricane season -- was reported in CQ Today, a Capitol Hill newspaper, which noted that Vitter's home state "bore the brunt of the botched agency response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005."

    At that time, FEMA was led by Michael Brown, who had little emergency management experience. Fugate, however, garnered widespread praise for deft handling of back-to-back hurricanes in Florida and won bipartisan support at his confirmation hearing and was expected to be confirmed swiftly.

    So diaper-loving whoremonger Vitter wants FEMA to remain leaderless a month out from hurricane season so that he can get better answers from FEMA. Still with me?

    This may be why famed porn star Stormy Daniels is launching a "listening tour" through Louisiana to see if she should contest Vitter in the Republican primary, as advocated by the Draft Stormy website. For further details:

    While she may seem to be a longshot now, imagine, if you will, the sight of eager throngs all over the state, waiting in anticipation for Stormy Daniels to come. When she gets there, the crowd erupts thunderously. In politics, perception is reality, and scenes like this will go a long way to establishing Stormy Daniels as a contender.

    So far this story has hurricanes, diapers, FEMA, Michael Brown, porn, Stormy Daniels, the U.S. Senate, whores and David Vitter. There's nothing missing, except maybe a transsexual and the Office of Budget Management.
    Last edited by Lemur; 05-03-2009 at 15:29.

  28. #148
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    I think Specter switched parties because he is the member of the Senate Judiciary Committee and heard that Souter is retiring. The Supreme Court Justice would want another liberal to take his place on the board, and while Specter and the Republicans won't be able to block the next appointment; Specter can get some great publicity from the new appointment process not appealing to his "traditional demographic" who doesn't care about him anymore, but by appealing to his new constituency.
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    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  29. #149
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Purge Watch: Huffington Post Weighs In on "Not Just Democrat, Progressive Democrat: Sestack considering primary run against Arlen Specter: D-PA".

    I for one happen to agree with the Huffington Post and Mr. Mogolescu. The Democratic Party should stop worrying about the Republican party and instead focus on getting so-called "Blue Dog Democrats" out of office. And I coudn't possibly agree more with the sentiment that the first Democrat that should receive an electoral atomic wedgie by a more progressive primary challenger is Sen. Arlen Spector-D Pennsylvania. After all, Specter didn't keep his word... he voted with the Republicans on the Bankruptcy Reform Act, preventing a measure that would have allowed courts to restructure mortgages in bankruptcy.

    If Specter wouldn't vote Democrat on such a crucial bill, and refuses to declare that he won't vote to always block Republican filibusters, I don't think the Democrats are getting enough for the senate seat they're selling to him and they should offer it to somebody that will embolden "hope and change".
    Last edited by Don Corleone; 05-06-2009 at 17:08.
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  30. #150
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Senate: Burning Down the House

    Senate Democrats strip Specter of seniority in committees.
    Quote Originally Posted by WaPo
    The Senate dealt a blow tonight to Sen. Arlen Specter's hold on seniority in several key committees, a week after the Pennsylvanian's party switch placed Democrats on the precipice of a 60-seat majority.

    In a unanimous voice vote, the Senate approved a resolution that added Specter to the Democratic side of the dais on the five committees on which he serves, an expected move that gives Democrats larger margins on key panels such as Judiciary and Appropriations.

    But Democrats placed Specter in one of the two most junior slots on each of the five committees for the remainder of this Congress, which goes through December 2010. Democrats have suggested that they will consider revisiting Specter's seniority claim at the committee level only after the midterm elections next year.

    "This is all going to be negotiated next Congress," Jim Manley, spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.), said tonight.

    Without any assurance of seniority, Specter loses a major weapon in his campaign to win reelection in 2010: the ability to claim that his nearly 30 years of Senate service places him in key positions to benefit his constituents.
    A true defector's welcome.



    OT, but still worth a mention: RIP, Jack Kemp.
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