Suggestion for a different rule set in EB multiplayer

[mountaingoat]

i am all for lowering the mnai and no cap on the elites ... this makes it more tactical (imo) when deciding what units to bring ... this also can help when organising who brings what in 2v2 , 3v3 etc

[Burebista]

I'm totally agains giving more mnai. the reason behind this is that this would favor hugely the Cataphract factions which already are a majority.

Lowering this ammount might however make Sweboz/Getai feasible ( or changing the maps to smthing with trees:)).

[MisterFred]

Personally, my favorite mnai level is about 20k. All sorts of troops suddenly become much more desirable... and the few elites you see actually seem more elite since they're slaughtering lower-quality troops wholesale :).

[vartan]

Personally, my favorite mnai level is about 20k. All sorts of troops suddenly become much more desirable... and the few elites you see actually seem more elite since they're slaughtering lower-quality troops wholesale :).

I always feel good about myself every time I see a fellow Californian on the Guild. Anyway, I was thinking we could leave the rules as they are and have High-Money games and Low-Money games...assuming 36k to be the High-Money. Is 24k too high for a "Low-Money" game? It's two-thirds of 36k! I suppose it wouldn't be unfair to include low and high money games in the tournament (i.e. any low or high money game win counts equally as one point).

[antisocialmunky]

I think 24k is a good amount. I was just about to suggest this. 24K anything goes.

[vartan]

I think 24k is a good amount. I was just about to suggest this. 24K anything goes.

What do you mean anything goes? Does that mean the unit limits are off? So I can bring more than 4 archer/sling, etc.?

[mountaingoat]

i think around 28k .. it seems that you could bring close to , if not , a full stack ( with some factions ) and still bring a very decent army (with few elites).. else u could bring more an elite army with a half stack or so .. if you put both armies against each other ( more elites & less troop numbers vs the less elites & higher troop numbers ) either one could take victory.

there should still be limitations in terms of unit types for each roster .. elites should be uncapped ... archers and cav limited to factions (steppe get more) .. i have not read any of the current rules so i duno

[antisocialmunky]

I dunno, the idea was to make things not broken at 36K with those limits but at a lower price point those limits get more unbalanced. Probably the most important one is the Steppe Archer limit since armor values are going to drop like a rock at those price limits. Maybe you should bump up the archer limit by atleast 1 so we can shoot those down easier. We should also think about the 10K Elephant credit since they are comepletely unusable at 24K and it would not be fun without the chaotic random that is the elephant.

[vartan]

i have not read any of the current rules so i duno

Please read the rules on the website. It will prevent redundant and unnecessary posts, such as yours.

I dunno, the idea was to make things not broken at 36K with those limits but at a lower price point those limits get more unbalanced. Probably the most important one is the Steppe Archer limit since armor values are going to drop like a rock at those price limits. Maybe you should bump up the archer limit by atleast 1 so we can shoot those down easier. We should also think about the 10K Elephant credit since they are comepletely unusable at 24K and it would not be fun without the chaotic random that is the elephant.

Can you explain a bit more about what the elephant credit is, how it would work, and whether it should be exclusive to the 24k model and not the 36k model. And do you mean to increase the steppe archer/slinger limit from 8 to 9?

[antisocialmunky]

No, increase the civilized faction missile limit by 1 because infantry armor will generally decrease.

Elephant Credit was a 10K for anyone who wants to bring an elephant. Just set the mnai 10K more, the other person can't use that 10K, just the person with elephants.

[MisterFred]

Just remember Vartan that in the end, there will be no strong consensus. The benefit of being willing to go to the effort of setting up a website, forum topics, etc, is that you'll get (and need to make) the final say on posted rules. Otherwise... CHAOS

[antisocialmunky]

Actually I think 28K is probably better. I don't see how Hellenic Factions will be able to field even a few units of 2K Phalangites otherwise.

[MisterFred]

I'd like to add a suggestion I forgot to mention earlier.
NO MORE FIRE ARROWS.
So a-historical.

[vartan]

Actually I think 28K is probably better. I don't see how Hellenic Factions will be able to field even a few units of 2K Phalangites otherwise.

Most were levies.

[mountaingoat]

about 28k works for many factions ( at the leas the ones i looked at ) , letting them recruit a decent army ... though i have no idea if we are all going to come to an agreement .. maybe the "home" team can select from 2 or 3 mnai type games ( low mnai , high mnai ) .. eh i duno.

[antisocialmunky]

I'm aware of that but the money is just a little too low to afford some decent phalangites and some decent cavalry.

[vartan]

I'm aware of that but the money is just a little too low to afford some decent phalangites and some decent cavalry.

I'm aware that almost every single one of you people use the word decent too much for my liking. Sheesh. Decent phalangites? What do you want, pezhetairoi? Haha. Maybe you should stick to one of those, not four, five, or six. 36k is plenty. I've already upped the civilized range from 4 to 5 units. I've given nations a 4k discount when choosing to hire elephants (pre-Marians would be 37k, not 40k, as their 33k base still applies). There's a new line under the fair play section IIRC wherein is stated that no flaming arrows (also referred to as "fire arrows") will be allowed, whatsoever. Complain all you want. Play with munky, he'll show you what "Morale Modifier" really means. In-depth knowledge of engine = exploitation to the max. Keep on practicing, you guys really have me sweating with all the purging I need to do. I have to visit the Hamachi site more often now than my own email accounts. Jesus Christ.

[Apázlinemjó]

I always feel good about myself every time I see a fellow Californian on the Guild. Anyway, I was thinking we could leave the rules as they are and have High-Money games and Low-Money games...assuming 36k to be the High-Money. Is 24k too high for a "Low-Money" game? It's two-thirds of 36k! I suppose it wouldn't be unfair to include low and high money games in the tournament (i.e. any low or high money game win counts equally as one point).

Totally supporting this.

[antisocialmunky]

Well I guess if Hellenics factions suck at 24K, they can just do the 36K.

@Fire Arrows - Its a good idea to ban them for 24K atleast, 36K isn't a real problem as the Getai swarm tactics that I used don't really work anymore on anyone with decent skill :-p
Its more about Chariots.

[VikingPower]

I know that there is a Chevron limit of 1 for each unit, but can there be made an exception with low cost slingers which do only have an attack of 1 with their slingers (like the Shepherds of Lusotana faction or Celtic slingers), so that such units can be upgraded with 2 chevrons so their missile attack will be similar to an upgraded Hellenic slinger (base attack 2). For I have noticed another thread about the baeleric slingers that they have lesser ammo and other things which make them rather overrated in the game while one would rather field a cheaper slingers as an alternate option.

[MisterFred]

It's too narrow an exception, too many rules and its impossible to keep track of them all. Some factions just have better units in the same class (Roman 200 man quality infantry, Lusotann superior javelin range). Lusotann, for instance, has a much better selection of AP infantry than the KH, but they get crappier slingers. These things happen.

[vartan]

I know that there is a Chevron limit of 1 for each unit, but can there be made an exception with low cost slingers which do only have an attack of 1 with their slingers (like the Shepherds of Lusotana faction or Celtic slingers), so that such units can be upgraded with 2 chevrons so their missile attack will be similar to an upgraded Hellenic slinger (base attack 2). For I have noticed another thread about the baeleric slingers that they have lesser ammo and other things which make them rather overrated in the game while one would rather field a cheaper slingers as an alternate option.

It's too narrow an exception, too many rules and its impossible to keep track of them all. Some factions just have better units in the same class (Roman 200 man quality infantry, Lusotann superior javelin range). Lusotann, for instance, has a much better selection of AP infantry than the KH, but they get crappier slingers. These things happen.

That's right Fred, each faction has its pros and cons.

@VikingPower: Slingers going from 1 to 3 attack have increased attack by 300 percent. Archers going from 4 to 5 have increased only 25 percent. That's a force multiplication difference factor of 300/25 = 12. That's 12 times the difference in effect of 2 chevrons for a slinger and an archer. This is why all get 1 chev.

[Apázlinemjó]

That's right Fred, each faction has its pros and cons.

@VikingPower: Slingers going from 1 to 3 attack have increased attack by 300 percent. Archers going from 4 to 5 have increased only 25 percent. That's a force multiplication difference factor of 300/25 = 12. That's 12 times the difference in effect of 2 chevrons for a slinger and an archer. This is why all get 1 chev.

Also 2 chevrons raise the moral by 4!!!

[vartan]

Also 2 chevrons raise the moral by 4!!!

Supposedly. I've never read anything about morale boosts.

[antisocialmunky]

+2 morale for 1 Chevron. You really need it to counter scary. I think Ludens said it was +1 if its not the first one of a color.

[vartan]

+2 morale for 1 Chevron. You really need it to counter scary. I think Ludens said it was +1 if its not the first one of a color.

Well Ludy is the only guy I truly trust completely so I'll go ahead and take that. Thanks.