The Magnaura

[Warmaster Horus]

Why not?
If the Basileus agrees to it, then it will be done.
Let us wait for the Basileus first, though.

[Ferret]

Are we going to take away land every time an edict is broken? If so, we will be pretty busy.

Manouelitis, you took it upon yourself to punish Methodios. You didn't work through us. And the fact that you have kept the land that you stole from Methodios makes your actions look... opportunist...

As for everyone who is cheering you on, I never saw those same people demand Rhodes back from Hypatios when he exterminated thousands of people.

It seems to me that people who are using the excuse of Methodios's sacking of Alexandria are going after him for personal reasons.

This body sat on it's hands when the Caesar broke the "rules." And now, when Methodios breaks an edict, the Senate wakes from it's slumber and bangs it's gavel in the name of justice.

Even Hypatios got off easier than this and his crime was far worse.

I am very much for punishing people who sack and exterminate. And I am very much for punishing people who break edicts and rules. But we need to be consistent and not let our personal feelings for the law breaker color our better judgment.

I hardly got off easier, Tagaris is losing a piece of land miles away from where his interest lies, he still has ownership of another piece of land and still is part of his house. A house is worth more than land, especially if you have two pieces of land already. Anyway Manouelitis needs the land, Tagaris doesn't, and what Manouelitis did was within the law, why should he have to give it back?

[_Tristan_]

Scopia may be far away from Egypt but it still has a lot of worth in my eyes simply bacause it was bequeathed to me by Kosmas... And I have to disagree with you, how can a House be more important than land ? Without land, there is no hope of ever seeing one's House grow... A landless House is worthless... It will never field an army to defend its part of the Empire, it will not be able to recruit new members...

If I hear you well you would want to restrict Senators to the right of holding only a single province, I doubt those those concerned would be willing to surrender them to landless senators without any counterpart in the form of an oath. Or is it just me that you want to bar from holding two provinces ?

And I will concur with our megas : you got off easier... You cut a bloody swath through Anatolia and all you had to suffer was your Lord and vassals turning their backs on you... I might add that it was not long before you found a comforting shoulder, by the way... So tell me how harsh this was for a punishment ?

Finally, who are you to say who needs land and who don't ? And who are you to say that Manouelitis is more deserving of land than say Aristenos over there ?

The difference I see is that Aristenos will await an opportunity to claim his land honourably, while the other disnonorably created an opportunity where there was none...

[ULC]

"I agree with the assertion the Basileus should decide when land is in dispute. Deciding between House members or even other Houses creates a biased view on whom should acquire the settlement in dispute. I will raise a point though, Nikiphorus, that you are in rather tenuous arguing position. It was taken underhanded, something unto itself goes against the very House charter you said Methodios broke, so be careful of hypocrisy. Second, you have no House to belong to, and as such lack real support. Third, your claims on Scopia are weak, if only because you are so far from it. Fourth, you yourself have set a precedence for "theft". To me, your words are laden with ill logic and little substance when you say we must take a stand now. If we are to take stand on doing what is right, we should do it through just process and not set a standard for vigilantism or underhanded tactics, as it leaves us no better then whom we are prosecuting. Leave that to the men who belong to this "Organization".

[flyd]

So let the Basileus rule on this, but one thing is clear, we need better enforcement of Senate Edicts, and more importantly, punishment stated in advance, especially in case of this contentious settlement capture issue. I would think a charter amendment at the next Senate session that says something like this would be appropriate:

If a settlement is captured in violation of any valid Edict or Charter section, the settlement will automatically be forfeited to the Basileus. If it was the Basileus who performed the violation, the fate of the settlement may be decided by a normal Edict at the next Senate session.

This way, people will know the consequences, and it will be a good deterrent against violating the will of the Senate, at least when it came to settlements. It's still up the Senators to gain support to pass an anti-sacking Edict, or prevent the capture of certain cities, or whatever other legislation would be applicable to settlements, but once they do, it will mean something.

[_Tristan_]

I, for one, would be in favour of such a legislation to be proposed... Edicts that run the risk of being broken should state penalties from the start like any decent text of law. This way, law-breakers and enforcers alike will know what to expect.

I am glad to see that some apples have fallen farther from the tree in the Komnenoi family... (bowing to Isaakios Komnenos)

[Privateerkev]

While I applaud the motives behind the idea, I don't see why rewarding the Emperor is the appropriate way to punish exterminations. So basically, some future Emperor will be able to convince some lackey to exterminate territories. The Emperor then gets that territory and the lackey gets off scot-free. He might even get the territory down the road. I see it as one of the pieces of legislation that has good intentions but will probably have unexpected consequences down the road.

The young senator is new to this place and needs to realize that laws we pass will ripple far into the future.

[ULC]

Hmm...you do not disagree with the spirit of it Grandmaster Makedonios? Then I am sure you would find it acceptable if we continue this line of though and iron out solid legislation for the punishment of breaking Edicts and Charters?

[Privateerkev]

Of course.

I think there should be punishment for the breaking of edicts and rules. But rewarding one person doesn't seem to be the answer. Now, our current Emperor has a strong record on condemning sacking. And the Caesar's reputation for chivalry is well known. But what happens if we get someone like Anastatios or Hypatios as Emperor? Do you really think they will hesitate to send out lackeys to sack and exterminate in order to get themselves some easy settlements?

Perhaps a CA that says, "If you break an Edict, you will have 1 less influence at the next vote."

I admit I haven't looked deep into this so I don't know if it would be totally legal but we have a good amount of time before the next session to iron it out.

[ULC]

Well, may I propose the idea that there be a mandatory freeze, for as yet determined amount of time and regardless of the current Megas's political alliances or House he belongs to, to all the recruitment and/or building within the violator's House? This is only rough idea, nothing concise yet, but to me, inter-house pressure can be much more effective at curbing law breaking, as Senator Nikiphorus has shown.

[Privateerkev]

That could be interesting as it might force the violator's House to expel them so they don't suffer the consequences. But as we saw with Hypatios, there will always be another House willing to take that person in.

Unless, we made it last for so many turns and it would effect what ever feudal chain the violator happens to be in. Which would have the effect of making them an outcast.

It might need to be hammered out some more but this might be a better idea than the -1 influence idea.

[ULC]

Him, so therefore we target the person, and by proxy whatever feudal chain he is a part of? Should we make it last one whole Megas term, per past offense, so repeat offenders must wait longer each time the violate the law?

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas shakes his head slightly.

I for one will not support this type of CA.

It is short sighted and has far reaching consequences of an undesirable nature.

By codifying through a CA certain punishment for breaking edicts and other CA's simply locks us into set punishments for a wide variety of breaches.

Having a set punishment for edicts that might be as small as not providing enough Priest in a certain area, as apposed to defying an anti Sacking edict that could result in ten's of thousands of lost lives is totally inappropriate.

Any failings to date for not punishing those nobles that have defied this Chamber, is a consequence of the men here and our ability OR INABILITY to find consensus!!

Edicts and CA's are few and far enough between to quite easily pass the appropriate follow up edicts regarding punishment based on what has occurred. Not some formula or set list which given the creativity of the breaches I have seen so far will be entirely inadequate.

It's very simple my lords. Gain agreement on a topic and then pass further edicts as a response to the breaching of previous one's. They can therefore be handled in a proportional fashion and then go to vote to then prove it's appropriateness by the backing of the required number of senators.

We have more than enough regulations. In fact we have enough to nearly seize this Empire like sand on a greased axle!!

Those that propose to include a punishment in their edict run the risk of it not passing because of that section of the edict in itself. You could in fact have a very good piece of legislation but it simply fails because there is no support for your preset, premeditated penalty for non-compliance.

I rue the day where we must all bring with us a battery of lawyers to simply hold a conversation.

Our job is to govern, not pay legal fees!! One day there will probably be more lawyers in the world than prostitutes!!

With that Apionnas shows one of the few signs of emotion, by slamming his fist down on the Magnaura bench. It startles the Protoasecretes just enough to wake him, glancing about in some alarm. Clearly seeing no mortal danger to anyone present he promptly goes back to dozing, muttering something about young folk and not being civil to one another.

[flyd]

Appionas,

You make some good points, but the fact is that this body has been ineffective in enforcing its own Edicts, and will continue to be so. The problem is that most real punishment requires a charter amendment. If a punishment amendment was voted on after the fact, people would vote strictly along political alliance lines. I know you know that is true. That means that anyone who has at least 1/3 of the Senate as allies can do whatever he wants. Certainly, each Edict could specify its own punishment, but that would likely make it necessary to be an amendment, and make it more difficult to pass. The usefulness of simple Edicts is in serious question at this stage, and this body is much weaker than the Emperor, Megas Logothetes, and the Houses. And that is quite the shame, because this is the only one pillar of our government that requires cooperation from everyone. This isn't about lawyers, it's about Senators. They write laws, you know.

[AussieGiant]

An edict is far more workable solution and has a better chance of passing.

I would simply use those as the most appropriate way of determining the appropriate type of punishment for what has occurred.

CA's are much harder to pass, and anyones ability to write a comprehensive, forward thinking, dare I say future predicting set of punishments based on incidents that have not even occurred, is highly unlikely. In fact nearly impossible.

I'll say again, anyone's dissatisfaction at the lack of response to the breaching of edicts and CA's should first look at the lack of momentum already seen here to date. To think that a CA outlining set punishments and fines could or should pass, is not keeping the apathy of this august body in mind.

[OverKnight]

Aleksios speaks:

If I have followed the debate correctly: The ownership of the territory of Scopia is in doubt, contested between Methodios Tagaris and Nikiphoros Manouelitis. Senator Tagaris inherited it from the late Senator Mavrozomis. Then, in an effort to start a new House, he gave the territory to Senator Manouelitis. However, Senator Manouelitis objected to the sacking of Alexandria and attempted to use Senator Tagaris's own House laws to expell him from the new House. Eventually this was resolved by Senator Manouelitis leaving the House entirely. Senator Tagaris wants Scopia back because he feels Senator Manouelitis accepted it in bad faith, while Senator Manouelitis feels keeping Scopia would punish Senator Tagaris for the sack of Alexandria.

Is this an accurate summation?

It now seems both parties have asked me to arbitrate in this dispute. Is this accurate as well?

If both parties wish me to resolve the dispute and both are willing to accept my judgement, then I do not see why we would need to involve Edicts or such.

[OverKnight]

Aleksios consults with the Protoasecretes and then speaks again:

In truth I find that ruling over a highly legalistic land dispute bores me. I would like to propose another solution: A Chariot Race, let God decide the outcome through a bit of sport. We have not had a race in a long time, and I feel such a diversion would lift the rather oppressive mood that has plagued the Senate the past few years.

The race will be a standard one, with four charioteers. Senator Tagaris will split the four into two teams, two charioteers to a side. Senator Manouelitis will then select one of the teams to champion his cause, with the other going to Senator Tagaris.

Whoever's charioteer comes in first, then that Senator will receive Scopia. However, if the Senators accept this proposal, they will both swear to accept the outcome as final without resorting to violence, and will release each other from any oaths of fealty (OOC: No civil war, no 5 year wait to reswear win or lose).

Is this acceptable to both Senators Manouelitis and Tagaris?

[deguerra]

I quite agree with the Emperor, that if both sides are happy to have him arbitrate, we need not go into edicts, which as many have correctly pointed out, bring their own peculiar difficulties.

I state once again, that we have been most unsatisfactorily ineffective in punishing even the most heinous crimes. Hypatios was punished, but he was punished by House Asteri, not the Senate. You could easily have sought further punintive measures against him, but you did not. I refuse to let people say he went unpunished, espeically when those people could have asked for more had they chosen to do so.

However, just because we failed consistently, does not, in my opinion, provide an excuse to continue failing and to attempt to undermine attemps at justice, even if they are a little unorthodox. I would like to stress at this point that Strator Nikiphoros never broke the law, not even the more informal laws of his house. Yes, he did not offer vassalship in good faith, but to be frank, people have done worse.

But that is for the Basileos to decide, and I for one will accept his judgment.

I agree with those calling for an edict, that we need a more consistent approach to punishment, and that it should be formalized. However, I agree with those against an edict that one edict cannot possibly satisfy all the possibilities, nor that making it extensively legalistic is desireable. So long as the parties can agree on an arbitrator, I suppose the problem will not arise. If they cannot, however, then the Senate MUST act.

As an aside, why would you kill me, Nikiphoros?

[flyd]

If it comes down to a chariot race, I would like to see Tagaris and Manouelitis drive the chariots and use their own horses. If it will be a competition, better make it a test of skill and bravery, not a test of picking the best chariot team.

[pevergreen]

Michail's head shoots up at the mention of a chariot race.

"Isaakios, I must disagree. It seems that the fairest way to resolve this is chance. I applaud the Emporer in finding such a balanced way to determine ownership of such a province."

[Motep]

Andronikos looked at Michail, and could hardly keep the mirth from his face.

A chariot race sounds like a fine idea to me.

As to general punishments, I believe that we should have a three point policy. The first offense will suffer small lossess on the offender's part, the second with stiff penalties, and the third with exile. Of course, all of these are dependant on the nature of the crime, and the extent of the consequences suffered by the community due to the offense.

Anyways, we should follow fair and predermined guidlines for punishment, which will be adhered more appropriately due to the nature and depth of the crime.

[_Tristan_]

Methodios bows to the Basileos.

I see decadence is already almost upon us when our jurisdiction becomes a matter of a thrown dice, or a chariot race for that matter...

Panem et circenses said our Roman ancestors, bread and games... Methodios slowly shakes his head.

Surely this will help us think of something else than the barely averted civil war or the continuing threat of the Jihad...

Anyway the will of the Basileos is my bond...

A race it will be... May Fate favour the Just...

[Warmaster Horus]

If it is the will of the Basileus, then it will be a chariot race.

Ioannis, I said that in jest. Being in your army gives me a good opportunity to act with/against you. I would have said the Caesar, but his dog - err, friend - Kantakouzinos would have jumped on that.

[Kagemusha]

Kantakouzinos looks in the direction of Nikiphoros Manouelitis and replies to his insult by laughing to his statement and saying.

"Has the puppy grown teeth,when it has now guts to bark at dogs?"

[Ramses II CP]

(This is a brief coop with AG)

OOC: This bit is, of necessity, backdated somewhat to before the rebellion of Cairo and the capture of Thebes, but I wanted a definitive track of the passage of certain information. :beam:

IC:

Seeing the war effectively concluded by a treaty and the Caesar denied his Imperial term as Megas, Vissarionas ek Lesvou stands to leave the Magnaura.

As Vissa departs from the Magnaura, Apionnas can be seen rising from his seat and making his way towards his fellow noble. They confer breifly and something is exchanged.

Without pausing further Vissa exits the Magnaura and boards a ship to Egypt.

:egypt:

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis Komnenos rises to speak and looks angrily at Makedonios.

I wish to complain about the treatment of the Komnenodoukai. Apart from the walls of Yerevan, which, I might add, were prioritised by me, not a single building has been built so it our lands this term.

You all remember how the Order whined and complained that I supposedly treated them unfairly during my tenure, and yet now they have proved themselves to be hypocrites.

Doubtless, the Ksanthopoulos will attempt to justify himself by claiming that the Order's lands are in more urgent need of development. However, I wish to remind the Magnaura that we have over 9,000 florins sitting in the Imperial Treasury. For what? Emergencies? Even this is absurd, as the empire rakes in around 9,000 florins every two years.

This is nothing but a deliberate attempt to weaken my power. The Megas Logothetes and his lapdog, Kalameteros, have been long plotting my removal, and seek nothing more than that aim. If you do not realise that, then I fear that the decadence of our newly found prosperity has corrupted us all as it did in the days of Caesar.

And who can forget the Ksanthopoulos' enthralling message of hope on the Roman dream? A balanced empire he said. A balanced empire with its capital at Antioch and having the splendor of a bald monk.

Will those of you who are not in his pay realise that all along he has been steering the direction of the Order towards independence from Constantinople? He refused to swear to my father publically, when almost the whole the Magnaura did. He rebuked one of his vassals for swearing to my father. Surely it is such an ungodly and unchivalrous act to swear fealty to one's emperor? But then again, Ksanthopoulos knows all about chivalry. He knows how to massacre the inhabitants of a city, and take its citizens' wealth for his own. And such was the foundation for the reestablishment of Roman authority over Antioch. And this honourable man, displaying all the true characteristics of a worthy chivalrous noble, argued so forcefully for the punishment and exile of a certain Hypatios Manchinos, whose only moral crime was to slaughter a few thousand more than this illustrious man. And this man too, was perfectly just to call for Manchinos' exile, for had not he himself atoned for his sins by a simple and concise apology? But Ksanthopoulos is an honourable man, and so are they all, all honourable men.

Ioannis resumes his seat.

[_Tristan_]

Pardon, your Highness, but seeing how you planned to lead us to civil war, I think it was some good planning on our Megas' part to prevent you from gaining anymore power than you already asserted for yourself during our own term as Megas.

I have not taken a thorough look at things but I would advise our Megas to try and maintain the balance if it is truly lacking, now that our Caesar has proferred apologies and and laid to rest his plans.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

A lot of noise and loud shouts are heard from the hallway. Suddenly the doors open and two Varangian Guards fly through the air and land on the floors of Magnaura. A very tall man enters the Magnaura and shouts..

I am not.. hkk.. a Senator??!! I'll show you what.. hkk.. I am!!

Trying to get his sword he loses the balance and falls on the floor. Quickly four Varangians are upon him and trying to hold the man down. But they are thrown away like they are nothing. The man stand up again and shouts to the guards...

I am Theo-what-ever-the-rest-of-my-name-was Petzeas!!! I am Senator of this country!!

Theo calms down and looks like he is thinking. Then with a quiet voice he asks..

What country is this anyway??

One of the scribes answer..

You are in Constatinople, Byzantium. And this man here is truly a Senator. Theophylaktos Petzeas.

The last words were for the Varangians who after hearing that back down and let Theo to take a seat..

Now.. hkk.. could someone bring me some wine and some woman?

[Privateerkev]

The Caesar is quite mistaken.

It seems he fails to read even basic Megas Reports.

Here is my report for 1126:


Yerevan: The Prioritized Wooden Walls were started. And all repairs have been made.
Athens and Bucharest started grain markets.
Dardenellia and Trebizond started Land Clearance.
Tbilisi started a small chapel and Corinth started a Chapel.
Sinop started a port.


Komnenodoukai settlements are in bold. The Caesar says, "Apart from the walls of Yerevan, which, I might add, were prioritised by me, not a single building has been built so it our lands this term."

Really Caesar? Only one building? My report, if you had bothered to read it, says otherwise.

Go and look at the settlements and you'll see the truth in what I speak. I have built far more for the Komnenodoukai in 4 years than you built for the Order in 15.

And 9000 florins sit in the treasury because I haven't gotten to spending what we made this year. You all make your moves first, then I spend money. That is how 'turns' work.

I have been spending every florin every 'turn' on armies and improvements. I detail this in my reports. Almost every settlement in the Empire has had construction in the last 4 years.

As for the Caesar's blatant fear-mongering, it is baseless. I swore to our current Emperor in private. The Emperor has never contested this. The Caesar never liked how I swore to his father. Well, too bad. That was between me and his father. And the Caesar knows this but loves bringing it up in order to paint me as a traitor. As for 'rebuking' one of my vassals, that is a bold faced lie.

The Caesar is the one that planned a civil-war that would destroy the Empire and make him despot over it's shattered hulk. He is now just bitter that the Senate has spoken with a clear voice against him.

And I see the Caesar likes bringing out the tired trope of Antioch. We all know what happened there. While regrettable, I never gave the order to sack. Hypatios however, willfully, and gleefully raped and murdered thousands of people. And not just in violation of our morals, but in direct violation of our laws. Not that the Caesar cares much for our laws...

Makedonios then walks across the chambers until he is twenty feet from the Caesar. He speaks to him but it is loud enough to be heard by all.

The next time you come at me like this, try using the truth...

[Warmaster Horus]

Heavy footsteps are heard outside the Magnaura. The doors burst open, and an angry-looking Nikiphoros charges in the Senate Chamber. He locates Michail Arianitis, goes to him, and begins to raise a fist. One of the Varangian Guard moves quickly enough to show Nikiphoros whatever he intends to do is a bad idea. The angry Senator backs off, sighs, and addresses the chamber:
"Senators, please excuse me just there. Arianitis, I don't give a #%$& if you excuse me, because I will never forgive you for involving yourself in the business of Scopia. It was for me and Tagaris to solve, and the Basileus generously tried to help us do it. When he found an adequate solution, and that solution was accepted by both Tagaris and me. You however went against the Basileus' solution.
I want the Senate to understand that by doing that Arianitis is breaking your oath of fealty to the Basileus. He may have another Lord, but our first allegiance must be to the Basileus.
In the same order of business, it is obvious Arianitis was conspiring with somebody. Before the race, he sent me a letter:"

Dear Sir,

If the Chariot Race to determine Scopia's owner goes ahead, I would like to know your plans?

Do you want to have Scopia to yourself or deny your enemy of it?

If the latter, I may be able to work out a solution to your problem.

Yours in God,
Michail.
The letter is first read by Nikiphoros. Copies are handed out by scribes to the Senators.
"I did not reply to it, since it implied methods of an illegal nature. However, by what has transpired, I get the feeling Arianitis sent this to another person directly involved with this. I get the impression, also, that the decision was to deny me of Scopia. I think you realize who I am talking about.
Senators, I find this situation shameful. I hope we can solve it quickly and in the fairest manner."
Nikiphoros starts to leave, and then turns around:
"And if there are any more competitions. I will participate in them myself, and I ask Tagaris to do so too. It seems that's one solution to this problem."

[Privateerkev]

It is sad that Michail invokes the name of God when he plans something underhanded. He should come in here and answer for his actions. And he can leave the dagger outside this time...

[_Tristan_]

Methodios stands up, with a bemused smile upon his face.

What I find sad, Grandmaster, is seeing Manouelitis coming in here, after the race, denouncing another devious plot, after seeing that Scopia seems denied to him.

He tells us you he didn't answer Arianitis, but what proof do we have ? His good word... We all know, and I particularly, the worth of his word, so spare us...

Who is there to tell us that he didn't take Arainitis up on his offer ? The result of the race seems to demonstrate just that he did...

Before you try to drag me in the mud with you, Manouelitis, I'll advise you to think twice... Arianitis offered me the same deal but rather than remain coy about it, I went to the Basileos, before the race, to ask him to resolve the matter in any other way as the race seemed compromised.

Our Basileos in his wisdom waited until the culprits played their hands... How wise of him...

So please don't act the aggrieved party... It is not in character...

Methodios then sits back down, slowly shaking his head, and looking at Manouelitis.

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas glances at the Basileos for just a second before standing.

Given the lack of decorum and subversion of the Basileos authority and elegant solution, I'd recommend straight forward banishment to some god forsaken part of the world. Something that would seem quite appropriate given the circumstance. That or being buried to the neck is sand and who ever is alive after 5 days takes the province.

Failing that, lets simply do it the old fashioned way.

Each noble makes his case here in the Magnaura before the Basileos.

Then let him decide. End of story.

[_Tristan_]

Methodios nods at Apionnas.

Don't you think I may already have pleaded my case to the Basileos ? That was for his ears alone... Unless he deems it necessary it is made public before this assembly...

Anyhow I do not think our Basileos is so blind or deaf or so short of memory as to be in need of being reminded of the
facts of the case at hand.

With all due respect, all we need at this time is a definite solution to a long-lived feud.

Don't you agree ?

[AussieGiant]

I believe you have stated you case Methodios.

But, to hear publicly all aspects, accusations pleas and come to a conclusion, then this is best done in the open here in this assembly. That way the Empire, the people and the wider world can see the true strength, wisdom and insight of our leader.

With all due respect, enough time has passed to possibly invade and conquer whole new worlds. This farce must end now before it turns things into a pure mockery of an issue.

The Basileos should in my view make the topic public here before your fellow peers and then pass justice down as it has always been done.

[Warmaster Horus]

Nikiphoros returns to the Magnaura.
I will do it if Tagaris agrees.

Tagaris, I won the race. Why would I take steps to trick it?

[_Tristan_]

Methodios stares at Manouelitis.

Are you dumb ? (OOC : Strictly IC...) You won because Arianitis tricked it for you... What was his price, I do not know... Truly, you must have been wanting that province badly...

Looking at Apionnas.

I ask for nothing more but for this farce to end. I had hoped for a quick and fair decision of our Basileos but having the welfare of his people at heart our Basileos thought he might entertain us while rendering justice... But even that was denied us, though I'll admit that was a damn good race...

So yes, I want this farce to end, and the sooner, the better...

[Warmaster Horus]

And are you a fool? He tricked it in such an obvious manner that trickery was obvious. Hence this current debate on how to resolve this.

OOC: IC of course. This thread is about IC discussion.

[AussieGiant]

Excellent. Lets hope the Basileos takes a benevolent view on proceedings.

I for one now wonder just how patient our Basileos can be in this situation.

[_Tristan_]

The thing is that you may regret not having chosen a better "ally" in trying to win this race... Now you denounce him to try and set you apart from him but I have, and I hope others beside me, have no doubt as to who was behind Arianitis' actions...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Boo hoo.. I won the race and I can't get the province.. or.. I lost the province and the world is against me.. woo woo.. let us all cry.. this is so terrible..

Theo burst into laugh...

Oh well.. you two get over it.. I might ask this Scopia for myself from the Basileus if that solves everything.. Come to think of it.. It's quite good plan..

Theo continues to laugh over Nikiphoros and Methodios..

[Warmaster Horus]

Petzeas, I will say this once. If you do not have anything useful to add to our conversation, do not say anything at all.
Tagaris, maybe we should wait until Arianitis speaks to see what he's got to say for his actions.
Of course, the only authority I recognize here is the Basileus. When he speaks of this problem, his word will be final. If I lose the province, so be it.

[_Tristan_]

Methodios scowls at Manouelitis.

Yes... Sure... Let's wait on your "accomplice" to admit his wrongdoings... Let's hear him tell us that you had nothing to do with that... Let's hear him put the blame on me... And let us all believe every single word that comes out of his mouth...

Yes... Let's do that...

[Warmaster Horus]

Or let's wait for the Basileus to decide. The facts I believe he knows. If we must say them again, I'll do it.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Oh well.. You want me to add something to the conversation.. very well..

Basileus.. I am new person in this crazy Magnaura but looks like those two are ready to cut each other throaths open.. not that I have any problem with that..
But what I wanted to say is, I ask Scopia for myself.. This way we can end this stupid and.. umm.. stupid thing over it..

Theo takes a little sip from his bottle..

Good wine.. Very good wine indeed..

He says quietly to himself..

[Ferret]

Petzeas, I will say this once. If you do not have anything useful to add to our conversation, do not say anything at all.

Who are you to command other senators to silence? If you really want to talk to each other in private then I understand there is a bar for human specimens such as yourself, interested in that kind of man to man interaction, just down the road from here.

[ULC]

Nikolaos shakes his head at Theo.

"I am sorry, come again senator? May I ask by what right, divine or secular, that entitles you to Scopia? If the Emperor truly wanted to end this, he would simply take the province for himself. But no, he has decided that it should be between these two, who claim the most right to it. You sit in Markianople, far from any near the very walls of Scopia, and yet you would say you have a right to it?"

Nikolaos grunts as he shifts his position in his to small chair. "I think, instead of trying to base a sound judgment on an unsound race, we should try a different path."

[Privateerkev]

*sighs*

I'm not sure how any of this conversation is doing honor to the actual citizens of Scopia. Has everyone forgotten about them? Let the Emperor rule and lets be done with this.

[ULC]

Nikolaos nods his head at Makedonios.

"I wholeheartedly agree. I'd also like to mention that Isaakios had the forethought to actually suggest we at least let it be between Nikiphoros and Methodios to curb any outside influences. He was shouted down by none other the Michial himself..."

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Now.. Grandmaster have said it.. Let's think about the people of Scopia.
Those two don't care about them.. They just want to hurt the other side.. both verbally and physically.. I'm sure that once they get Scopia they will forget it and the people will rot in that place and their lives will go worse and worse every day..

But I do care about them..
Yes I am currently in Markianople.. But I am here only because I defend the Empire... It's a shame that we have to be in the same army once we siege Adana, Nikiphoros..

[ULC]

Nikolaos gives Theo a look

"You speak for Methodios and Nikiphoros and claim to know their motives? Do not think so much of yourself."

[Privateerkev]

To Theo:

I don't doubt the motives of the other two men.

As for Adana, as I have told the others, your assistance will no longer be needed. I will siege the castle this year. That will free you guys up to go after the Jihad army to your west.

Two Jihad armies are heading towards Constantinople right now. The city will have difficulty if it tries to defend both sides. Since there is no force that can intercept the Moors, that will fall to the city's defenders. But the Fatimids can be stopped ahead of time.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Conspiracy..

This is the only word that comes from Theo's mouth and then taking another sip from the bottle..

[OverKnight]

Aleksios enters the Magnaura.

I am displeased that matters in the Hippodrome failed to resolve the issue of Scopia. However, I will not let a tainted race decide the matter. I had hoped a bit of sport would have saved us from a interminable amount of legal squabbling but I guess nothing on Earth can get between a Lawyer and his pound of flesh.

Aleksios seems a bit resigned to his fate.

Therefore, I want a summation in the Magnaura from both Senator Manouelitis and Senator Tagaris on why each of them is entitled to Scopia. I invite them to peruse the records and reference them to aid their claim. A cursory review of the minutes shows that Scopia has been exchanged more often than a whore at the docks.

Each Senator is allowed one speech to stake their claim and then one rebuttal to the other's originial case. I will then decide who has the better claim.

[pevergreen]

Michail wakes up, scattered revision of economics all around him



A group of Varangians march you up to the Kathisma and the Basileus is waiting.

He asks, "Trying to play God, Senator Arianitis? Why did you have Ferro cheat? An honest answer or I'll make sure you never sponsor another race again."
My lord....Something of a personal Vendetta.

My instructions to my driver was merely to be in the lead at the end, and then let the opposing team win. My personal feud with the losing party stretches back many years.

"My exact instructions to my driver. I did not order him to use violence, but simply not to win."

[Privateerkev]

So cheating at the game of chance that the Emperor set up to settle a land dispute is ok as long as you don't use violence?

[ULC]

Nikolaos shakes his head.

"I see Michail, that you would interrupt the Basileus's judgment for a mere personal vendetta. That is shallow and selfish beyond words. The Hippodrome is no stranger to cheating, but this goes beyond that."

[_Tristan_]

Methodios walks to the centre of the hall and bows to the Basileos. Then turning on his heels, he quickly scans the benches where his fellow Senators are sitting.

Basileos,
Caesar,
Fellow Senators,

I am here in accordance with our Basileos’ will to state my claim on the ownership of Scopia.

I am no lawyer… I consider myself a soldier and I am more at ease on my charger than on the floor of the Senate.

So, I’ll try not to bore you with words.

Scopia was bequeathed to me by my fellow Crusader and sponsor Kosmas Mavrozomis. Kosmas and I believed in the same ideals and we wanted to create a House that would work for the greater good of the Empire. With his death, that ideal could have been struck down but for the fact that his gift of his land to me allowed for the continuation of House Ilios Korakas.

Now, new Senators came to join us… Annios Solomon, who was barred from it by Michail Arianitis, on pretense of oath-breaking when the same Arianitis abandoned his own House to join another in the days that followed… Nikiphoros Manouelitis, whose pledge hid some ulterior motives as I will demonstrate…

For, in the months that followed, I led my crusading army on an assault on Alexandria, after witnessing the gruesome treatment dealt to Kosmas by the fanatical heathens of the city. Blinded by hatred, I ordered the massacre of any and all of the men that belonged to that devil spawn. Thinking back, I regret the cost in human lives… But with hindsight, I think it was necessary… See where our fair treatment of Cairo led us… A city rioting, causing the death of 6000 souls and more to come… These heathens had to be shown the might of the Empire to kick out of their minds any idea of rebellion and this is what I did.

Now, some among you have wished me punished for that breach of an Edict voted by this body. Some of you saw it as a sin against God.
Our Megas set me a penance, a harsh one that put me in danger of losing my life to the riotous mobs of Cairo. But I took it up in stride and served it to the best of my abilities.

Even though our Basileos, our prime judge after God, remained silent on the matter, some decided this was not enough punishment. Manouelitis was among them. But where most remained inactive, he chose to act. He first came to me, privately, questioning my conduct in a way that made me doubtful of his commitment to our House, so I released him of his oath.

But in his scheming and devious mind, a plan had hatched. So forsaking any honor, he pleaded, he groveled to be allowed back, going as far as pledging his life to me. Fool that I was, I believed in his lies and allowed him to re-swear his oath to me. Even more, I was so moved by his pledge that I thought it deserved a reward and I granted him Scopia, a settlement I held dear for the reasons stated above, to govern. Now the fox had entered the henhouse…

Next thing I know, using the rules of a House he had no care about, Manouelitis staged a coup, expulsing me and trying to wrest from me the province of Alexandria. I relented and not wishing to press his point, he withdrew and left with Scopia safely under his control, using it to gain his entry into another House.

Now, I believe all can see that the rules that were set up by the Ilios Korakas’ Charter were nothing more than a tool into Manouelitis’ hands in order to grab some lands for himself without having to fight for it…

Most of us here had to wrest our provinces from the hands of the enemy of the Empire : be they rebels, Turks or Egyptians… We have a right to claim these lands as ours… So do we want to condone the theft of the settlements our men gave their blood for ?

Now, thinking back, I hope you can see as well as I can, a pattern emerges… The same names keep coming up in trying to bring down House Ilios Korakas and myself : Arianitis and Manouelitis…

These men are somehow in league and for the worst : dealing blows under the belt, cheating and lying… They are not even trying to build something out of it… They just want to destroy, to lead personal vendettas for reasons that escape me…

Are these the kind of men that we want to rule our settlements ?

I think not and I hope the Basileos will see it my way.

After bowing once more to the Basileos, Methodios strides out to his bench.

[OverKnight]

Aleksios nods to Methodios.

Thank you Senator Tagaris, we shall see what Senator Manouelitis has to say.

[Warmaster Horus]

Nikiphoros, after listening intently to Tagaris' statement and reading the records a couple of times, stands, and bows to the Basileus.

Basileus, Caesar, Senators...

If I understand correctly, I am to first make a case for myself, after which Tagaris will rebute my statement. Finally, after all this, I will rebute Tagaris' first speech.

I will say first that the Empire has a problem. The problem of law. Law-breakers now fall under a noble category: Senators. We know the story of the Caesar, we know how Caesaria was exterminated, and we now know the Sack of Alexandria. Of the events at the Hippodrome, I will not speak, since it is not useful here.
In any case, there is a problem of law. And to solve that kind of problem temporarily, until a clear-cut solution is found, we must base ourselves on facts. This is what I will do.

Scopia was inherited by Methodios Tagaris from Kosmas Mavrozomis, who was also my sponsor (OOC: the one who adopted Nikiphoros). Tagaris went on, open the House Korakas, gain me as a vassal and to conquer Alexandria. To sack Alexandria.
The legality of such a move was contested. Unfortunately, the Caesar was planning some form of treason, and Tagaris' act was temporarily forgotten. All seemed to be well since he was "repenting", trying to help keep Cairo in order.

But there's an adage, I believe, which goes: "Pardon one offense, and you encourage the commission of many". Well, in this case the Magnaura has forgiven two acts: the Caesar's mishandling of the Order and the extermination of Caesaria. I will not suffer many offenses. The Magnaura must draw the line somewhere, and I wished to draw the line with the Sack of Alexandria.

That apparently was not to be so. Tagaris, realizing I might condemn him, released me of my Oath, and thus threw me out of the House Korakas. I was not going to suffer that. I used subterfuge, I connived, I conned and cheated my former Lord to regain membership in that House. I then used the law of Ilios Korakas to punish Tagaris.

The law of Korakas, written by Tagaris himself says two things pertaining to this case. Firstly, it mentions:

D) Members joining the House that are already in control of a province will be asked to release their hold on it to the House. The Captain-General may choose to let them keep the control over the said province. The said province is considered House property for all purposes.
Thus, we can believe that Scopia became property of House Ilios Korakas. Alexandria as well, since Tagaris conquered it sometime after opening the House.
Then:

4) Expulsion:

It will consist of the subject's lord breaking fealty with him, as well as the subject's vassals breaking fealty with the subject. Anyone who refuses to break fealty with the subject will be expelled as well.
The expelled subject will be asked to leave the House's lands and to give back any land to the House. Refusal to return lands to the House will be considered a declaration of war with the expulsed member considered the declarer. Lands returned will become the automatic property of the expulsed member's lord.
The feudal chain will re-organize itself to take into account the expulsion.
Therefore, if Tagaris were to be condemned to expulsion, the following things would have to happen:
- My Oath of Fealty would be broken,
- Scopia and Alexandria would be returned to the House.

Once back in House Korakas, I used my power to judge Tagaris. I put forth expulsion, with all that measure entails. He accepted that punishment, except for Alexandria. I decided to let him have Alexandria. Thus, another circumvention of the law; I should have ownership of Alexandria, but I do not. I will let that offense slide out of respect. Tagaris is an honorable man, and I respect honor.
However, the fact is that he agreed to being expulsed. He lost the leadership of the House and governorship of Scopia. I then closed the House Korakas, giving Tagaris the possibility to have it back. I had never wished for the responsibility that accompanies the leadership of a House.
At this point, then, Tagaris accepted his expulsion, but kept Alexandria and had the possibility of being leader of House Korakas once more. The things he lost are a Vassal and Scopia.

I tried to start anew, in House Asteri. After I swore Fealty to one of its members, Tagaris comes in and declares:

I accepted my "expulsion" from the House... This doesn't mean that I accepted you breaking your oath... The only way I could accept this would be if you returned Scopia to me, you sneaky thief...

Either that or you will suffer the consequences of your oath-breaking...

Your new oath is void.

From this, he basically asks that the punishment is cancelled. If I agreed, he'd have the House, Scopia and Alexandria. Senators, to be in that situation is not to be punished.


My claim is this: Tagaris was punished by House Korakas. Such punishment included giving his cities to the House and releasing me from my Oath. He asks for Scopia, thus refuses punishment. That is a fact.

Finally, Basileus, Caesar, Senators...
The case of Scopia is much more than that of a town. It is much more than the case of vengeance. It is a case of law, and respect of the law. Without those two, the Empire would be in chaos. Noble and Great Basileus, please remember that.

Thank you all for listening. Let us hope that this debate truly decides the ownership of Scopia."

Nikiphoros bows to the Basileus, sits, and begins to chew his nails, while waiting for Tagaris to answer.

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis Komnenos rises to stand.

I am interested how the top bun of the Order wishes to explain the extravagent amount of money spent on hiring mercenaries for his forces.

Did not he whinge and complain that the Komnenodoukai had recruited mercenaries that were draining the empire's coffers? But of course, that rule doesn't apply to the Order, because obviously they are so incompetent to not leave a decent garrison in Antioch.

Ioannis resumes his seat.

[Privateerkev]

I'm not quite sure why the Caesar is talking about my rear end. Maybe he has something about himself he wishes to share with us...

But I had to recruit mercenaries because the Levant was left so woefully neglected last term. Not just woefully neglected. But criminally neglected. Without decent recruiting centers, and with only a barebones army that was criminally delayed, we have had to play catch up.

And our armies have suffered horrendous attrition since we keep fighting off Fatimid Jihad armies. Unlike the Caesar, we have done our part to protect the capital.

So yes, when the Templars attacked with almost 2000 men, I had to do something. I only had 600 or so men inside and outside the city. So, I recruited mercs. After the battle, I then disbanded them all.

If 2000 men marched on any of your cities, and there was inadequate defenses, I would do the same for you.

So, yes it was incompetence that left Antioch defenseless. But the incompetence was not ours...

[_Tristan_]

Methodios waits for the Basileos to speak and allow him to continue with the proceedings towards resolving the case of Scopia.

[OverKnight]

Aleksios speaks:

Now that both Senators have presented their case, each may pose a rebuttal to the other's claim if they wish. Once that is done I will render my judgement.

[_Tristan_]

Hearing the words of the Basileos, Methodios stands up and walks down to the center of the hall. He then addresses the assembly.

Basileos,
Caesar,
Fellow Senators,

It seems my adversary has finally agreed to plead guilty about the theft of Scopia.

I quote from memory :


Originally Posted by Nikiphoros Manouelitis

I used subterfuge, I connived, I conned and cheated my former Lord to regain membership in that House. I then used the law of Ilios Korakas to punish Tagaris.

And we all know what that punishment was destined to be : the theft of Scopia and the attempted theft of Alexandria.

See, the rules that were drafted on the creation of House Ilios Korakas were written among men of good faith : Kosmas and I among them… We knew we could trust each other and thus never would our rules be used among us to prejudice one another.

What we had not envisioned was that some untrustworthy fellow would be using those same rules, without regard to their value, for his own advancement.

But those rules were private rules, a gentlemen’s agreement if you prefer, and have no force of law per se. They are only designed to point the way to our House members as to how they should behave and for the day-to-day working of the House.

So here we are faced with a case of theft pure and simple. Though it is not necessary to the case at hand, for theft exists solely in the intent of acquiring what belongs to another, let us dwell on the motives behind such a move.

Here again I quote Manouelitis from memory :


Originally Posted by Nikiphoros Manouelitis

I will not suffer many offenses. The Magnaura must draw the line somewhere, and I wished to draw the line with the Sack of Alexandria.

So Manouelitis was motivated by his will to see justice rendered. But on whose authority ? Did this august body at one time declare him our legate in dealing with whatever was deemed necessary after the sack of Alexandria ? No, it did not…

Manouelitis appointed himself judge, jury and executioner in this and even more, he benefited from it. We might take him at face value on his will to clear his conscience by punishing me for my deeds, if only he hadn’t taken profit from it.

The people have confidence in the law and the judges because they are deemed to be impartial and incorruptible. Manouelitis is nothing near impartial (when was I given a chance to explain myself and plead my case ?) nor incorruptible (as demonstrated by the way he made Scopia his own after rendering judgment…)

Had he truly been what he professes to be, he should have deprived me of Scopia and made a gift of it to the Basileos to do with it as he saw fit, even returning it to him if such was his will… That he kept to himself shows that he had ulterior motives in acting this way.

This is why I call this theft and as far as I know this is also a crime against our laws, which Manouelitis seems so willing to uphold.

Thank you for hearing me, My Lords, fellow Senators…

Bowing to the Basileos.

My liege, I await your decision.

[OverKnight]

Aleksios turns to Nikiphoros.

Senator Manouelitis, do you have a rebuttal to Senator Tagaris's originial statement (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2011570&postcount=1558)?

[_Tristan_]

Those seated next to Methodios can hear him grumbling.

Seems like he's not in too much of a hurry to do that...

[Warmaster Horus]

Pointedly ignoring what he thought he heard, and after ordering his scribes to pass copies of Tagaris' statement (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2011570&postcount=1558) to the other Senators, Nikiphoros stands. Bowing to the Basileus, he takes the floor:
"Indeed I do, my Lord.

Basileus, Caesar, Senators...

I pledged to Ilios Korakas for its noble ideals. It was a new venture, but upon reading the Charter, I felt it was what I needed. Unfortunately, events soon proved to go against it. I speak of course of Alexandria. However, I entered Korakas before Alexandria. I could not know what was to come to pass. I held no ulterior motive. My wish was to become a man of Noble character, of deeds that benefited the Empire as a whole.
The Sack of Alexandria was terrible. It was the consequence, as my opponent says, of his rage. While we are all Men, and thus can make mistakes - errarum humanus est (to err is human) - we Senators are in charge of the Empire. An Empire! Thousands upon thousands of people! Can we truly allow ourselves to act through so much passion? Rather, if we are to act out of passion, can it be this kind of passion? Rage, choler... Negative emotions that bring the worst out of us all. And if we act badly, so suffers the Empire. If we punish such emotions, I feel future Senators can hold their anger. And so the Empire would benefit.
But let's not turn this to philosophy.
Tagaris tries to repent by going to Cairo. I mentionned in my first statement; I feel that is no excuse, and should not even be in relation to this case. Tagaris is near a Cairo in chaos. I ask, what Senator, what protector of the Empire would not go and defend its cities and citizens, even if it is from themselves? It is our duty to serve the Empire, and thus what the Megas asked of Tagaris was normal. All the Megas asked was to fulfill his duty.
Tagaris points out that he released me of my oath. This much is true. But Senators, I tell you to read the records of Ilios Korakas. You will see that I had been threatening Tagaris with punishment before he released me. Doing that - letting me go - was just a way for him to flee before the storm. Admittedly, perhaps I was not smart in mentionning what I might do publicly. But if Tagaris was such an honourable man, he would not have released me. He would have faced the storm straight on.
Tagaris is correct in his next words. I did cheat. I did scheme. But all I did was reply in the same manner. Had he not thrown me out of Ilios Korakas, I would not have done that. I would not have grovelled. Circumstances forced me to.
However, Tagaris is wrong about one thing he mentions next. I cared about Ilios Korakas. That is why I left afterwards. That is why I left it for Tagaris if he wishes it.
I may have cheated you out of a settlement, Tagaris. But you did not win it. You gained it through inheritance. You cannot say that "your" men gave their blood for. They are the men of the Empire and Emperor. Delusions of grandeur, perhaps? Or just a craving for power?

Basileus, Caesar, Senators...

I feel my speech is getting long enough, so I will try to hurry the end.
I did lie. I did cheat. I acted in a most dishonourable manner. I will plead guilty to that. But that is not the case here.
Finally, I would like to applaud Comes Methodios Tagaris. For a man who says he is no man of words... He does speak quite well. My esteem for him has indeed increased.
Thank you again for listening, Basileus, Caesar, Senators.

Bowing once more to the Basileus, Nikiphoros takes his seat. He seems less nervous this time - he's not chewing his nails, for one.

[OverKnight]

Aleksios speaks:

Thank you Senators. I will review your claims and then give a judgement. There is much to sort through, so please be patient.

He exits the Magnaura.

[woad&fangs]

A blood stained journal is delivered by a solemn looking man


February 11th, 1138

Moving inland towards Medina. The roadways built for religious pilgrims are serving me well. Saracen mercenaries have been hired to assist us.

February 12th

I am now within sight of Medina. Scouts report a small Fatimid army outside of Medina.

February 13th

The Fatimid field army is estimated at just over 400 men including 50 light Arabian cavalry. Garrison of Medina has been estimated at just over 300. It is governed by a man who’s name is impossible to describe using good Latin letters. Both armies are comprised of poorly equipped troops aside from their cavalry contingents. We will march on Medina in broad daylight. The Moslems would rather risk battle in the open field than see their holy city besieged. Once they are defeated, Medina will be helpless.

February 14th

The attack has begun. The enemy are choosing battle in the open field, just as I have planned.
.
.
.
Death befalls all men
But mine was my own doing
Lord forgive my sins

Here ends the life of Solomon

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Theo lowers his head and sighs..

Another good Senator have died..

[ULC]

Indeed...it is a terrible loss, and I shall mourn Senator Annios's passing.

[OverKnight]

Aleksios reenters the Maganura.

Annios Solomon will be missed. He paid the ultimate price for his convictions and his sacrifice serves as an example of service for the entire Empire.

His passing must also give us a lesson in caution. We are powerful and brave, but we are not immortal. A blade or axe will kill us as quickly as any other man. I know many Senators wish to make a name for themselves, and rightly so, but a live Senator is of more use to the Empire than a dead one. We must take that risk into account before throwing ourselves into a battle with poor odds.

Aleksios pauses, and speaks again:

Now, to the matter of Scopia.

This was a very complicated case. At first glance, it appears simple: Senator Tagaris gave Scopia to Senator Manouelitis after he joined Methodios's new House. However, things grow murky after this. The end result is that Senator Tagaris feels Scopia is his because it was accepted in bad faith. Senator Manouelitis feels that he is punishing Senator Tagaris by taking Scopia from him.

Senator Tagaris indeed gave Scopia away for a promise of service. Senator Manouelitis broke this oath, but he has the right to do this and keep the land he was given. However, a strict interpretation of the rules will only cause this situation to fester and lead to future conflict, though this is a result that may happen anyway despite my efforts.

My judgement is this: Scopia belongs to Senator Manouelitis. However, if he accepts it, he cannot swear a new oath of fealty or accept one until 1147. This roughly doubles the ban he is currently under for oath-breaking. If he wishes to enter or start a House before that time, he must return Scopia to Senator Tagaris. If the Senator took Scopia out of a purely selfless motivation, I'm sure this decision will not be a burden.

Despite all that has been said about Senator Tagaris's breaking of an Edict, no one has proposed legislation, despite an oppurtunity to do so, to sanction him for it. With the loss of Scopia, I consider the matter of Alexandria closed. I will vote against again further punishment of the Senator. He has served the Empire well.

I thank both Senators for their patience.

[Warmaster Horus]

"My Lord, thank you for resolving this matter.

Methodios, perhaps we can forgive, if not forget?"

[TinCow]

A scribe whispers something in the Protoasecretes' ear.

"WHAT?! It can't possibly be that time already, can it?! Ah, well... let's get it over with so that I can go back to napping."

"I hereby declare the Senate Session of 1140 AD open! It will remain open until Friday, September 19th at 02:00 GMT."


OOC: Please note that I will be out of town from Thursday, September 18th (which is before debate ends) until Thursday October 2nd (well after the next term has begun). I WILL have a laptop with me and will be online occasionally during that time, but that is because I just bought a house and need to be in touch with my agents. My interactions with the Org will be minimal. For the entire duration of my absence, GeneralHankerchief will be filling in as GM and will have all powers and abilities that I have previously held. Do try to behave.:bow:

[Smowz]

The gentle murmur of quiet chatting resonates around the great Magnaura hall. It is a quiet and difficult time around the capital, the Moorish Jihad as been pillaging and harassing the local countryside making it difficult to even make it to the Senatorial session. Despite the shuffling and general feeling of malice there is one that walks with a bright step, his name is Nevoulas ek Philadelphius. He walks in to the magnaura as he never has before, with some confidence he eagerly shakes the hand of many of the various peoples in and around the chamber.

Striding into the the main ring, Nevoulas looks around, clears his throat and says.

Senators, I bid you all fond greetings.

Whilst the capitol itself is under siege you will find the Eastern parts of the empire is strong spirits. Anatolia has been cleansed of the Turkish threat. The long work of the armies of the Komnenodoukai in the North and the Asteri in the south have conquered the land mass and wiped it clean of Turkish raiders. Further afield the Order are now the occupying force in the holy land and the crusade has proved an eventual success led by the fierce warrior Methodios Tagaris.

After some years of careful consideration I have decided to announce that I, Nevoulas ek Philadelphius, will run for the position of Megas Logothetes for the 5th term.

Some may question my credentials, I assure you that I am well prepared to take this honour and run this empire with similar panache and brilliance as those before me.

Our first duty is to wreak an mighty revenge on those that will oppose us. The mopping up operation continues in Egypt and the Turkish outer provinces, I intend to deal with these Moors in some measure also.

It is also high time that we paid more attention to our Western frontier, those treacherous catholics who enjoy our fine trade managed to allow this Moorish Jihad to slip through their territories unhindered, how dare they!!!

Finally, I am well aware of the financial restrictions of the empire and will work tirelessly to ensure not only are the books balance but our coffers are overflowing with excess to prepare for all eventualities.

I thank you my fellow senators and look forward to conversing with you all in due course.

With that Nevoulas turns to take a seat on the front row of the Asteri section of the gallary, wiping the sweat of off his brow he waits to see what the senate makes of this surprising display.

[ULC]

Nikolaos raises his head up to look across at Nevoulas.

"Mopping up in Egypt you say? Hmm...may I ask what you intend in Egypt and the surrounding area, and what you plan on doing for those who fight there? And can I ask what you mean by 'we paid more attention to our Western frontier'? Your platform sounds most interesting."

[TinCow]

*The Protoasecretes wakes suddenly from his napping. He stares around wide-eyed at the room, looking suspicious and wary. His head jerks back and forth for a while, searching for something which he does not find. Eventually he relaxes.*

I have had a vision from God! Yes! He appeared before me in the form of a monstrous elephant, the size of the Hippodrome itself! He spoke to me and said that his name was Arnold, and that he was displeased with the governance of the Empire. He made some comment about his... ah... 'big brass ones'... which I think he referred to as Brom and Gain, then he told me that I must listen well for he would tell me exactly how to fix our problems.

*The Protoasecretes looks confused for a moment and scratches his head.*

Problems? Do we have problems? Oh, yes... we must have problems! Arnold-God and his Brass Prophets said so in my dream! He told me to wake immediately and propose the following Charter Amendment.

Charter Amendment 5.1:


Rule 4.1 – Private Armies is deleted.
Rule 4.2 – Royal Armies is deleted.
Rule 4.3 – Army Replenishment is deleted.

New Rules will be added as follows:


4.1 – Armies: Except as stated in Rule 4.2, all Senators own all army units that begin a turn in a stack led by their avatar, in the garrison of a settlement they own, and in the garrison of a fort inside a province they own, regardless of how the units got there. Senators instantly own any Captain-led stack that their avatar moves onto. No one may move or disband any units owned by a Senator without his permission.

4.2 – Seizing Armies: Any Senator may move his avatar onto an army owned by another Senator from the same feudal chain. If this occurs, the Senator with the highest feudal rank instantly owns the entire combined army. If both Senators are of the same rank, the eldest Senator will own the entire combined army. The Basileus may instantly seize any army his avatar moves onto, regardless of the status of the Senator that previously owned it. A Senator may not move his avatar onto an army owned by a Senator from outside his feudal chain unless both Senators agree to the move beforehand. If there is a subsequent disagreement about who owns the units in the army, where the army is to move, or who commands the army, the Basileus will decide. This Rule does not apply to garrisons of settlements or forts. Avatars may never be seized.

4.3 – Naval Fleets: All Senators own all fleets that begin a turn in the port of a settlement they own, regardless of how the fleet got there. Otherwise, naval fleets are owned by the Senator with the highest feudal rank who is onboard the fleet. If there are multiple Senators of the same rank, the eldest Senator will own the fleet. No one may move or disband any ships in a fleet owned by a Senator without his permission.

The following line is removed from Rule 5.2 – Civil War through Oath Breaking:

If a Civil War begins in this manner, any Senator who would lose the right to own a Private Army as the result of the breaking of the Oath of Fealty will be allowed to retain ownership of his Private Army until the Civil War ends.

Rule 1.4 – Game Management is re-written as follows (changes in bold):

1.4 – Game Management: At the start of each turn, the Megas Logothetes will post an annual report on the events of the last turn, including a save game file for the new turn. After the annual report is posted, players will have 24 hours to download the save, and make their personal moves. Players can move their avatars, move any unit or fleet their avatar owns, and fight any battles against the AI that they are capable of fighting with their avatar’s army. Player may also move any unit, fleet, or avatar they have been given specific permission to move by the respective owner, as long as that permission is posted in a public thread. The Megas Logothetes may extend the time limit beyond 24 hours at his discretion, but all players are encouraged to act as swiftly as possible to keep the game moving. Players may not move avatars or armies into the territory of a neutral or allied faction without the permission of the Basileus. Nor may they attack the settlements or armies of neutral or allied factions without a declaration of war from the Basileus, a Megas Dux/Exarch or an Edict.

Penalty 1 is deleted from the rank of Strator.

Penalty 1 is deleted from the rank of Comes.

The rank of Domestikos gains the following Power:

If this rank is held during a Normal Senate Session, can Prioritize a total of 2 units per full 10 turn Megas Logothetes term, unless the Domestikos is loyal to another Senator.

Power 4 is deleted from the rank of Hypatos.
The rank of Hypatos gains the following Power:

If this rank is held during a Normal Senate Session, can Prioritize a total of 4 units per full 10 turn Megas Logothetes term, unless the Hypatos is loyal to another Senator.

Power 4 is deleted from the rank of Antypatos.
The rank of Antypatos gains the following Power:

If this rank is held during a Normal Senate Session, can Prioritize a total of 6 units per full 10 turn Megas Logothetes term, unless the Antypatos is loyal to another Senator.

Power 4 is deleted from the rank of Patrikios.
The rank of Patrikios gains the following Power:

If this rank is held during a Normal Senate Session, can Prioritize a total of 8 units per full 10 turn Megas Logothetes term, unless the Patrikios is loyal to another Senator.

Powers 5 and 10 are deleted from the rank of Dux.
The rank of Dux gains the following Power:

If this rank is held during a Normal Senate Session, can Prioritize a total of 10 units per full 10 turn Megas Logothetes term, unless the Dux is loyal to another Senator.

Powers 5 and 12 are deleted from the rank of Megas Dux/Exarch.
The rank of Megas Dux/Exarch gains the following Power:

If this rank is held during a Normal Senate Session, can Prioritize a total of 12 units per full 10 turn Megas Logothetes term.

Power 4 is deleted from the rank of Caesar.
The rank of Caesar gains the following Power:

If this rank is held during a Normal Senate Session, can Prioritize a total of 2 units per full 10 turn Megas Logothetes term. This Power is cumulative with the ability to Prioritize units under any other rank held by the Caesar.

Powers 4 and 14 are deleted from the rank of Basileus.
The rank of Basilues gains the following Power:

If this rank is held during a Normal Senate Session, can Prioritize a total of 15 units per full 10 turn Megas Logothetes term.

Power 2 and Limitation on Power 4 are deleted from the rank of Megas Logothetes.
The rank of Megas Logothetes gains the following Powers:

(2) The Megas Logotheses is responsible for all monetary expenditures in the game. The choice of what to build/recruit and where is entirely up to him, except as stated in the Limitations on Powers.
(3) The Megas Logothetes can move all armies that start a turn led by a Captain except as stated in Rule 4.1.
(4) The Megas Logothetes can move all fleets except as stated in Rule 4.3.
(5) The Megas Logothetes can move and use all agents.
The rank of Megas Logothetes has Limitation on Powers 2 is re-written as follows (changes in bold):

(2) No money can be spent on any construction until all Prioritized Buildings have been funded, unless the Senators who Prioritized them agree otherwise. If there are multiple Prioritized Buildings, and not enough funding for all of them, the Megas Logothetes may choose which to construct first. Prioritized Buildings cannot be funded until all Prioritized Units have been funded.
The rank of Megas Logothetes gains the following Limitation on Powers:

(4) Prioritized Units – No money can be spent on any recruitment until all Prioritized Units have been funded, unless the Senators who Prioritized them agree otherwise. If there are multiple Prioritized Units, and not enough funding for all of them, the Megas Logothetes may choose which to construct first. Senators may specify the Type of Unit to be recruited and the Location for the recruitment. The Type of Unit is restricted to the broad classifications of infantry, foot missiles, and cavalry. Artillery and Mercenaries cannot be Prioritized. A unit may be retrained instead of recruited if the unit is already located in a settlement where it can be retrained in some fashion. Except for the Basileus, the Location is restricted to any settlement owned by the Senator requesting the Prioritization or any settlement owned by a vassal in his feudal chain. The Basileus may specify any settlement in the Empire as the Location.

Rule 1.6 - Game Balancing is deleted.

The following line will be added to Rule 3.3:

Edicts are only binding on the players to the extent that the Senate chooses to enforce them.

A new Rule will be added as follows:

3.4a – * Amendments: Rules marked with a * can be permanently modified via an Amendment if TinCow gives his approval for the modification.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios walks into the chamber and strides to his new place at the Order's table. He sits down and it looks like a million pounds have been lifted from his shoulders. An aide shows him the transcripts of what has already been said this session.

Senator Nevoulas,

You speak of people possibly questioning your "credentials" to be Megas.

What you need to be Megas is the ability to read and write at a frantic pace. You also need impeccable book keeping because you being sued for breaking the footnote of an addendum to an index of an amendment to a law is not a matter of 'if', but 'when.' If you have any friends or loved ones, you must say good-bye to them for 15 years. I'd also give up on the notion of 'sleep.' If you think you've read through our laws, best to read them at least 8 more times before your term starts. You will also need a picture perfect memory. It would also help if the idea of dreaming about people's SOTs doesn't bother you. And finally, you need to reconcile right now with the fact that, no matter how hard you work, or how much you do for others, you will receive no thanks, praise, or recognition what-so-ever.

If you can understand, accept, and internalize the above paragraph, then in my opinion your as ready to be Megas as anyone can be.

Protoasecretes,

I find it regrettable that we are getting inspiration for legislation from pagan Gods. I have never heard of this Arnold God but he sounds like a whiner.

Despite that, I do see merit in the CA itself. Private armies are turning into a legal nightmare. And the possibility of 'garrison dumping' is just an accident waiting to happen.

I'm not sure if legislation inspired by heretical whiny elephant Gods need to be seconded, but I will do so anyways.

I second CA 5.1

OOC:

To AG: :clown:

[AussieGiant]

Senator Apionnas Vringas stands abruptly, throws his head back, raises his hands to the ornate ceiling of the Magnaura. A faint red glow of his eyes is a disconcerting sight to those in the chamber.

With a physical blow his voice fills the chamber...deep...resonate...foreboding.

HEAR ME MEN OF THIS PLACE...!!

The shock wave of his voice brings all movement to a stand still. A few moments pass as every eye trains itself on what should be the figure of Senator Vringas.

HEED THE WORDS OF YOUR AGING DECREPIT, ADMINISTRATOR...WHILE I DEPLORE MEN OF HIS ILK, THEY ARE NECESSARY FOR THEY GIVE STRUCTURE AND ALLOW YOU TO LIVE OUT YOUR LIVES AND DREAMS ON THESE SACRED GROUNDS.

PASS THIS LAW...

OR I SHALL STRIKE YOU DOWN!!

...I AM THE DREAD LORD. I SPEAK FOR THOSE WHO CAN NOT.

The room is silent, Senator Vringas slumps back into his chair and is immediately attended to by members of the administration. He's taken from the chamber with help from a few guardsmen.

[_Tristan_]

I also second CA 5.1

Muttering to himself :"Seems like I'm not the only heathen in these halls..."

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios hears Apionnas's strange possession.

Why do I suddenly have the urge to strut around in obsidian armor, kick puppies, and stick the heads of Hungarians on pikes?

He shudders and goes about listening to the Senate session.

[Smowz]

Nevoulas watches the theater with a smile on his face. He was pleased, his announcement had gone largely unnoticed thus far and had not caused the waves of protest he had thought it would. In fact on the contrary, others had almost been encouraged by Nevoulas stand. Using the comments of Nikolaos Aristenos as an opening he raises to address the young senator, but first he reassures the flustered looking Comes Vringas.

Comes Apoinnas, do not fear I am sure most like me will be in favour of such an amendment, too many hours have been wasted arguing over petty administrative matters for the old ways to stay.

Turning to Nikolaos and the Ilios Korakos delegates.

Nikolaos, you may be aware of my deep respect for the late Kosmas Mavrozomis a friend and a mentor to me in my early years. It was he who brought me into these halls as a young lad and nurtured me into the man I am today. It was his wish that the empire would sieze control of Egypt for he believed it was the key to complete control of the east and the untamed wilds of the great continent to to south of it.

The Fatamid Caliphate and the Seljuk Sultanate have become mortal enemies of the empire and simply cannot be allowed to continue to exist. Whilst I do have an eye on these Moors, I apprieciate logistically they will not be a long lasting threat. I am ambitious that one day a group of us will venture to bring them to justice but first support will be given towards completing the task at hand.

The fine economical work of the man sitting over here.

Points to Makedonios Ksanthopoulos

Has meant that the next Megas should be able to show some support towards noble continuing crusades.

As far as the west is concerned, by this my concern is with the lack of trained troops in the Balkans. I do not trust the bishop of Rome in the current climate, I would not be surprised to see some sort of attack launched from that direction. I intend to continue to develop our resources in that area and expel any catholic influence.

[Privateerkev]

I can answer as to why the Balkans has no troops. Quite simply, they weren't needed there. The Catholics were peaceful and troops were needed in Anatolia, the Levant, and Egypt. But with the treachery of the now-disbanded Templars, I do not know how long we can trust the Catholic Kingdoms.

Luckily, there are forces in the center of the Empire that can be re-located out to the west after the Moors are defeated. Both the Emperor's army and Alek Ikoniu's army are at Constantinople. And Nicaea now has an absolutely ginormous garrison for an inner city. I'm sure if we ask very nicely, the Caesar won't mind if we get his army dirty.

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis Komnenos stands up.

Noble senators, you have now witnessed the glorious tenure of Makedonios Ksanthopoulos, the "balanced" Megas Logothetes. So balanced was he that the Order only gained Tortosa, Acre, Cairo, Thebes, and Dongola. A mere five provinces.

During my term as Megas, the Komnenodoukai only expanded by two provinces. And yet Ksanthopoulos accuses me of playing favourites with my House.

Here we see an ambitious man, who has very cleverly pulled the wool over your eyes. Under a veil of chivalry, of which many unfavourable rumours abound, he goes about preparing his house to be an independent entity from Constantinople.

He mocks me at every opportunity, scorns the authority of the purple, and his behaviour can only be described as arrogant.

The Order of St. John is the bastion of Satan. The devil would have no qualms about causing chaos throughout our Christian empire.

Do not support Ksanthopoulos or his house. They can only cause misfortune for the empire.

Ioannis resumes his seat.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Theo stands up...

How dare you say something like that, you spoiled little brat!
Say something like that again and I shall make sure you will never need a hat anymore since I'll cut your head off!
If there is someone that bow before the Satan then that is you, Ioannis!

Theo's eyes are full of anger.. Thankfully he don't have his sword with him cause who knows what would've happened then..

[woad&fangs]

Your words are tantamount to treason. I demand that you rescind your statement and apologize to my brother.

[ULC]

Nikolaos stands sharply, his enormous size casting a wide shadow.

"Senator Theo, I suggest you hold your tongue or at least think before you say such thing! You do your House dishonor by speaking so. If you have issues with another senator, keep them out of the debate. Retract your words...now."

Nikolaos turns to the Caesar. "I mean no disrespect your Majesty, but you seem to be taking much of the Orders gains out of context. Tortosa was taken to eliminate a very powerful threat. Acre is part of the Levant. Cairo no longer is under Order control, it belongs to my House. Thebes and Dongola are...cases of extreme ambition by only one member of the Order."

Nikolaos turns to Nevoulas. "Ahem, I ask again, what will you do for those in Egypt? You say the followers of Islam must be defeated, but your not saying how. I would like to know your plan, not your dream, no disrespect Senator. I prefer something more concrete then mere whimsy."

[Privateerkev]

The Caesar's House did far better under my tenure than we did under the Caesar's.

The truth means nothing to this man. He simply uses every opportunity to spread lies and disinformation. Where I have spoken nothing but the unvarnished truth since I stepped in these hallowed halls.

1.) I ask the Caesar to explain his blatant law-breaking during his term. He has never explained this. Does he find himself above the law? How will he govern as Emperor? Will laws mean even less?

2.) I also ask if we can expect any more "accidental" declarations of war from the Caesar. It would be nice to plan ahead if he is planning on tripping over his tongue and declaring war again.

3.) I dare him to explain "many unfavourable rumours [that] abound" about me. (OOC: And you better use IC knowledge only... :brood:)

4.) I dare him to explain how I have broken the Levant away from Constantinople.

5.) I dare him to explain how we are "a bastion of Satan" when I have done more to spread our Faith than any Megas.

I do not "scorn[] the authority of the purple." I just think that the next person ascending to the position is an incompetent, unimaginative, paranoid, criminal.

The position of Emperor is most important. It is just a shame that the next person to be Emperor isn't fit to wear the current Emperor's socks.

Hail to the Emperor!

May he live to be 120...

[OverKnight]

Aleksios has kept so silent so far, as if assessing the somewhat bizarre happenings before him. After Senator Petzeas speaks the Basileus' gaze falls on him.

Any further threats of physical violence will result in an expulsion from the Senate. We are here to debate, not to strut around like green as grass beardless boys before our first battle. Please keep this in mind.

Aleksios rubs his right temple and grimaces.

Could we also keep the channeling of the dead to a minimum as well? It is unseemly.

[pevergreen]

Michail fumes silently before standing up. He has been witholding his anger for a long time. He explodes.

"I hereby renounce my oath of loyalty. I can not stand my former house's actions any longer. This latest outburst was the last straw."

[_Tristan_]

Methodios stands and nods at Nevoulas.

Senator ek Philadelphias, it is nice to see some of our younger members step up and grab the reins.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavours.

The Empire is now as strong as it ever was. I will nevertheless warn you against the enemy from within. Some among our numbers have their own designs for the Empire and I fear they might use your inexperience to advance their own goals.

I envy your enthusiasm... Holding the position of Megas is a goal towards which all of us must strive.

I would have run myself but I fear many among my fellow Senators harbour too strong feelings about me...

[Warmaster Horus]

Are you talking about me, Methodios? I have always considered you to be an honourable man. Alexandria and the following troubles between you and me have been for the rule of law, and any insult you may have done to my name is forgiven and forgotten.

[_Tristan_]

No, I'm not talking about you... Though you certainly fit the part. I was thinking of people leading personal vendettas for reasons that remain unknown to me...

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis Komnenos stands up.

Senators of the Roman Empire, I wish to state my intention of running for the post of Megas Logothetes once again.

Under my leadership, I propose to return Roman control over all our former lands in the east, with the exception of Jerusalem itself. It is foolish to risk bringing the wrath of Western Christendom down upon our heads, misguided barbarians though they be. The allocation of the new lands will entirely up to those who conquer them, as has formerly been the case.

I also would strengthen our ties with the Kievan Rus. As you are all well aware, my wife is Kievan princess and so that task should not in itself be too difficult.

There have been many concerns that if I were given another term as Megas Logothetes, I would use it to destroy political rivals and feather my own followers nests. I wish to dispel these rumours by promising that I will not declare war upon either the House Asteri or the Order of St. John. Indeed, I have already written to my father asking for reconciliation to be negotiated between Antypatos Ksanthopoulos and myself.

We have expanded very rapidly over the past 15 years, and so after mopping up the last few Fatimid provinces, I will seek to reorganise our frontiers, basing large legions at four strategic centres, namely Tblisi, Aleppo, Sofia, and Corinth. A smaller force may quartered at Alexandria in order to protect Egypt. As you can see, this would enable houses to effectively protect their lands, and remove the burden from the Megas Logothetes from being responsible for the whole defence of the empire.

I also believe that reform is needed in our navy. Currently, we have scattered fleets, all of which are under the command of the Megas Logothetes. Such a concentration of naval power in the hands of one man is dangerous, and therefore I propose this Charter Ammendment.

Charter Amendment 5.1: The Roman Fleet, consisting of 8 ships, is to be stationed at Constantinople under the sole command of the Basileus. The Alexandrian Fleet, consisting of 6 ships, is to be stationed at Alexandria under the command of the Megas Logothetes. Each house containing at least one coastal province has a fleet consisting of 2 ships under the command of the house leader.

Senators, we cannot allow feuds to cause a catastrophic civil war. Let us move forward for the glory of Rome!

Ioannis resumes his seat.

[pevergreen]

Michail stands
"Apart from the lunacy that would come with your returning to the position of Megas, Charter Amendment 5.1 has already been made."

[Privateerkev]

While I will follow the will of the Grandmaster in this matter, I would rather vote for a dead dog before casting a vote for the Caesar.

He still has not explained his blatant lawbreaking last time. It is not a far leap of imagination to assume that he will break the "Rules" yet again. If CA 5.1 passes, he'll probably ignore all of our "PU's" in full violation of Byzantine law. And from his point of view, why should he follow the law? He wasn't punished last time...

Plus there is the matter of civil war. We all know the Caesar will pursue one if he thinks he can get away with it. Heck, he'll probably start one by accident like last time...

While it warms my heart to see him promise not to declare war on me, I've received enough of his 'bi-polar' letters to know he happily says one thing at one moment and then the opposite the next moment.

The Senate can mark my words. If we are dumb enough to elect this man again, then we truly deserve everything he will do to us.

As for the Caesar's CA 5.1, besides being misnumbered, it is also not needed at this time. The real CA 5.1 already reforms the navy. Let's see how that works first.

[_Tristan_]

Having listened to both the Caesar and Arianitis, Methodios stands up.

I seldom agree with Arianitis but I must concede he has a point. nods to Arianitis.

Caesar, you state that you will not wage war on Asteri or St John Houses, fine... But your statement rings in my ears as if you would consider waging it against smaller houses or independant Senators, or at least leaving an open door for such opportunities. Surely I must be mistaken...

Though I consider myself a tenant of the lands of northern Egypt for the greater good of the Empire, I must say I do not take kindly to have a large fleet stationed in Alexandria and taken out of my command.

So I will not support your CA which is by the way wrongly numbered.

One more thing : what did I or any member of Ilios Korakas do to you that you should spurn us so ?

I'm quoting you :


Originally declared by Caesar Ioannis.

I will seek to reorganise our frontiers, basing large legions at four strategic centres, namely Tblisi, Aleppo, Sofia, and Corinth. A smaller force may quartered at Alexandria in order to protect Egypt.

Egypt will soon become our frontier, now that the whole Levant is in our hands. And you would leave only a token force there ? You want us to destroy the last of the Fatimids... I want it also but that requires taking Mecca and Medina, the two holy cities of the Muslim world. Do you think the Muslims will remain at peace while we desecrate their religious symbols ? We might be facing another Jihad, one that you would have us face with a "smaller force".

And how convenient your House or its closest ally will be holding three of our most strongly garrisonned settlements ? Corinth, Tbilissi and Nicaea... For I'm sure that you would not deprive your own settlement of its men to improve those you intend to strengthen...

What threat does lie on Greece and the Balkans that it should require a large army both in Corinth and Sofia ? Surely one or the other should be enough. And that may not even be the case as Constantinople is garrisoned by the Royal Army of our Basileos which should be up to the task of defending those settlements, once the Jihad under its walls has been turned away, as I am sure it will be. So I ask again what is your true intent in acting thus ? How will you fund the creation of those "legions" ? Or will you ask Senators to relinquish their hold onto their armies for the creation of these ? Leaving them without the means to defend themselves should your delusions of grandeur come knocking back again at your brain's door...

But, forgive me, my Lord, for I may have taken your whole speech seriously... But I recall now your last sentence...


Originally declared by Caesar Ioannis.

Senators, we cannot allow feuds to cause a catastrophic civil war. Let us move forward for the glory of Rome!


... and I cannot but think that all this was nothing but some cruel joke you played on us...

Have mercy, please, these are serious proceedings...

[Smowz]

Watching the events transpire, Nevoulas ek Philadelphius feels a knot well up inside his stomach. So, it is the Caeser Ioannis Komnenus himself he stands in opposition to his application for Megas. Nevoulas steels himself, knowing that whilst they may not be equals in terms of social standing or on the battlefield, inside the walls of this building perhaps they can be considered so. Even so, as he stands now Nevoulas shoots a nervy glance at the Basilues Aleksios Komnenus, Nevoulas claps his hands loudly...

Senetors, let us halt the bickering and bring the discussion round to more sensible subjects. We are all aware of the various controversies of the Caesers last Megas term and whilst some of us may have a problems his methods. These so-called infringements should be forgotten now, I do not want us to go over old ground once more.

We cannot deny that the Caeser and his house the Komnenodoukai have done wonderful work in last twenty or so years in crushing the Seljuk Sultanate that had plagued our past. We should not forget that the Seljuks had at one stage come close to taking over Anatolia and it is through successive military victories that they have been pushed back. Senators Pavlos Chrysovergos, Lisas Attaleiatis, Ioannis Kantakouzinos and even the infamous Hypatios Machonios, should also be heartily heralded as saviors of the region.

I feel that this house have the task of 'mopping up' firmly in hand and themselves and the Order should be able to handle things from here with minimal extra help from the Megas other than funds to be diverted toward reinforcements and missionary work.

It does sadden me that the Caeser feels the need to run against myself, however that is his prerogative and I respect that.

Nevoulas turns to the Caeser, and offers a bow.

Good luck to you Caeser.

I like you feel the need to strengthen our power bases in the west as well as elsewhere to protect against rebellions from within and the still powerful but muddled Christians to the west. I feel your proposed fleet charter however is somewhat unneeded and would prove cumbersome to implement at this stage in time.


Nevoulas turns now to address the Illes Korakas delegates headed by Methodios Tagaris and Nikolaos Aristenos.

I feel for your loss of Senator Annios Solomon , his campaign toward the holy sities of Mecca and Medina whilst poorly planned was indeed the kind of strategy I wish to follow in Egypt. I will fully support yours or any other house if they can pursue the followers of Islam down to these places, for they seem to be the spawn of these fanatical Muslims that seem to hate us so.

Annios did reveal some of the strengths of the Fatamid Caliphate in the region, and I believe that unlike him you shall require a fleet to transport your troops efficiently down to these core areas. I believe it is important that these places are held and strengthened for it will eventually eliminate the threat of the Fatamids and the Seljuks once and for all.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios explodes at Nevoulas's words.

"so-called infringements!"

So called infringements!!!!

The Caesar broke the law! And not some Edicts which few seem to give weight to anyways. But Rules. The very thing that is actually against the law to break.

I refuse to "forget" the issue when the very man who broke the rules refuses to answer for his crimes and then wishes to run again.

I can only assume, that if the Caesar somehow becomes Megas again, he will continue to break the rules. And since we all know he is planning, plotting, and dreaming of civil war, his rule breaking will be in the furtherance of this goal.

These "so called infringements" need to be brought up and debated because they are at the very heart of what the Caesar's future Megas term would look like.

These "so called infringements" were laws that were clearly broken. If Nevoulas would like a lecture on the law, and how the Caesar clearly and willfully broke the law, then I will happily give him one.

And these "so called infringements" put people's lives in danger! We were at war at the time and the Caesar's law breaking illegally denied us an army at the very time we were being attacked. To hear something so serious passed off as a "so called infringement" really pisses me off!

Any man who wishes to be Megas better know the law. And more than that, he better love the law. Because it is actually against the law, to break the law. If we ever lose sight of that, we will degenerate into either anarchy or despotism. Neither of which will be good for the Empire.

I am fully convinced that the Caesar does not love the law. He only sees it as an impediment to his dreams of power. During his term, he did everything he could to see to it that people who voted against him suffered. And in doing so, he broke the !@#$'ing law!!! And the Senate absolutely refused to hold the man to account. So, from his point of view, he clearly got away with it. Therefore, there is nothing stopping him from breaking the law again.

Some of the same people who whine when an edict is broken stood silent when the Rules were broken. We must love both Edicts and Rules. And if we are forced to defend one over the other, it must be Rules that have primacy. For our whole system of government is based on the Rules.

I am almost tempted to offer a CA that would actually punish someone for breaking a Rule. But if I have to do that, we have reached a sad and dark day in our history. For the Rules shouldn't have to be defended in such a way. And if the Rules can be broken, then that CA would just get broken as well. Is that really where we want things to go? Where things that are supposedly sacrosanct have to be protected by something else that is supposedly sacrosanct?

[_Tristan_]

Methodios stands and adresses the Order benches.
Now, Makedonios, please calm down...

Go easy on our colleague Nevoulas here... He's caught between the rock and a hard place... So I understand that he doesn't want to antogonize any of the powerful factions here, though it seems he failed in not antagonizing you.

Surely you can see you'd better off supporting him and denying the Caesar his wish than berating him. I agree with that his choice of words was tactless but it is the spirit of it that counts.

Nevoulas argues for leaving the past behind us and stride towards a brighter future. That will only be achieved if we are able to deny the Caesar access to the position of Megas Logothethes and thus put aside any risks of civil war.

But maybe I should Nevoulas speak for himself as I am sure he is most capable of.

[Privateerkev]

No Methodios I will not calm down.

We lost men because of the Caesar's "so called infringments." And thousands of lives were put at risk. We took more losses than normal protecting Constantinople from the Jihad because we were cruelly and illegally denied a perfectly valid private army. A capital that the Caesar has singularly failed to protect. He took the money he saved by breaking the law and sank it into a useless army that he has done absolutely nothing with. It now garrisons a city far away from any fighting.

I will berate anyone who attempts to belittle the sacrifice of soldiers who were only doing their job, despite a total and complete lack of support from their Megas at the time. Calling the Caesar's crimes "so called infringements" is a slap in the face and a dishonor to those who protect us. While I am sure Nevoulas did not mean it that way, his casual attitude makes it clear that some in here have forgotten what the Caesar has done, and what it cost us.

[rossahh]

If you were so outraged Makedonios, why did you not even attempt to punish the Caesar? You are a senator, you could have proposed a motion to punish the Caesar but you did nothing. Justice was yours for the taking, yet you could not find the strength to reach out and grab it. Kicking over the bones of this issue is pointless. Save your breath and just vote for the candidate who you feel will act in the best interests of the Empire.

I of course, shall be voting for my colleague and friend, Nevoulas. That said, I will still listen to the Casesar and what he has to say without screaming at him. The time for that has passed. Holding on to this petty hatred is not the way you would want history to remember you, is it?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Theo stands..

I will propose the following CA to prevent any further law braking:


CA 5.2: The following lines will be added to the rule 2.5:

2.5 – Oaths of Fealty: In order to become a Vassal of another player, a Senator must take an Oath of Fealty by specifically swearing allegiance to that player in a public thread. The prospective Lord has the right to refuse to accept the Oath. An Oath of Fealty can be broken if either the Lord or the Vassal specifically revokes it in a public thread. If a Vassal breaks an Oath of Fealty without the permission of his Lord, he cannot swear a new Oath of Fealty until 5 turns have passed. A Senator can only have one Lord at a time, but he may have an unlimited number of Vassals. Oaths of Fealty cannot be sworn or broken while the Senate is in session. If Senator brakes the law his Oath of Fealty shall be considered invalid and he will be thrown out of his House. He can not swear a new Oath until 5 turns have passed. His land will become the property of his Lord. If he doesn't have a Lord then his land will become the property of Basileus.

Now this should make people think twice before the try to brake any law!

[Andres]

Savvas enteres the Magnaura.

15 years of self imposed exile hadn't change his handsome features at first glance.

A closer look at him however revealed a certain sadness on his face, as well as bitterness and well hidden anger.

Senators, I didn't think I would ever say these words: I've missed this place. I really did.

I still have to read all the reports, but I already learned that over the past 15 years, the Order has grown and has become very powerful, just like I predicted.

Makedonios, a long time ago, you asked the Caesar this question:


Can you tell me how sinking all of the Empire's resources into one corner of the Empire was good for the Empire?


Makedonios, can you tell me how sinking all of the Empire's resources into one corner of the Empire was good for the Empire?

I'll await your response. In the meantime, I'll catch up on the reports of the last couple of years.

Savvas walks to his chair, hesitates and stops.

Oh, and I've noticed that the vassal of my vassal will run for Megas. Obviously, he has my blessing. But I also consider the Caesar a personal friend. I must be getting old and melancholic, but to me, friendship is important and it does influence my political stance.

Therefore, I will abstain in the next election. I have full confidence in both candidates and I wish them both the best of luck.

Savvas sits down and starts to read several documents.

[rossahh]

I see one problem with your CA, dear Theo. What if the Basileus is the one who breaks the law? He has no house to be thrown out of and any lands he is stripped of will be promptly returned to him.

[ULC]

Nikolaos returns to the Magnaura with a bottle of wine in hand. He sits back down and pours himself a glass, muttering under his breath.

"If I have to listen to everyone bicker about the past before we get anywhere, then might as well pass the time well...anyone else for a drink?"

[Andres]

Savvas looks up, and whispers something to one of his scribes. The scribe gives him a document, which Savvas starts to read.


If Senator brakes the law his Oath of Fealty shall be considered invalid and he will be thrown out of his House. He can not swear a new Oath until 5 turns have passed. His land will become the property of his Lord. If he doesn't have a Lord then his land will become the property of Basileus.

Our ancestors had a saying: necessitas frangit legem.

Sometimes, gentlemen, necessity forces one to break the law...

I can think of many examples, but I'll give just one: let's assume that during the invasion of the Fatimids in Corinth, I was not allowed to use the garrisons of Aleksios and Ioannis Kalameteros, because both Senators were not able to communicate with me (e.g. the messenger gets killed, they were too far away, they were wounded and not able to write a message, etc. (OOC: they were offline)).

I can tell you that I would have taken both garrisons anyway to defeat the Fatimids.

Obviously, my action would have been illegal. If the proposed charter amendment would have been valid, I would have been kicked out of my House for breaking the law...

And for acting as a prudent Senator and preventing the people of Corinth to suffer under a Fatimid siege...

The Charter Amendment as proposed is too strict and doesn't take into consideration exceptional circumstances.

Let's try to put some more common sense into our legislative work, shall we?

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis Komnenos stands up and bows courteously to Nevoulas ek Philadelphius.

I thank you for your acknowledgement of the service my generals have made to the empire, especially Pavlos Chyrsovergos, who has been exemplary in his service to the empire. I would like to return the favour, seeing how valiantly the men of the Asteri have fought against the Seljuks of Iconion and Caesarea, now honouring the fallen Markonios Ampelas.

I apologise for any sadness my running has caused you, and I wish to indicate that it is not that I disrespect you, but I desire for a healthy contest between two or more candidates. I believe you would manage the empire very well, and would have no hesitation voting for you myself, if I were not running.

Ioannis resumes his seat.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios, can you tell me how sinking all of the Empire's resources into one corner of the Empire was good for the Empire?

I didn't sink all of the Empire's resources into one corner of the Empire. I fear your exile has left you unable to read basic Megas Reports. After you read those, feel free to get back to me.


If you were so outraged Makedonios, why did you not even attempt to punish the Caesar?

I did try to punish him. I asked repeatedly for an emergency session. It seems your own absence has left you unable to read Senate transcripts. After you catch up on those, feel free to get back to me.


Holding on to this petty hatred is not the way you would want history to remember you, is it?

I don't give a good !@#$ how history remembers me and nor should you or anyone in here. And how dare you call my feelings "petty hatred." Do you claim the ability to look into my soul and know my thoughts and feelings dear Ziga?

And yet again, the Asteri are white-washing the suffering the Caesar caused. I propose that both Nevoulas and Ziga go and talk to the widows and families of the soldiers who died because the Caesar did not give us a legally mandated private army that the law demanded he create, and not only create, but deliver in a prompt fashion. Not to mention the fact that it was very much AGAINST THE LAW to break this law. And he did it no less than THREE MOTHER!@#$$'ing TIMES!

Now, does anyone else want to even attempt to tell me that criminal neglect is just fine and dandy?

[pevergreen]

Michail's laugh rings out around the Mangaura

"Oh yes he broke the law Makedonis, we are aware of that. I like to forgive and forget in most cases. What I find hilarious is you harping on about it every time it is brought up! Law this and Law that! You make me laugh. I'd also like to keep the language civil, I dont envy the amount of editing you are making the scribes do."

[_Tristan_]

Methodios stands up and claps his hands slowly.

Congratulations, My lord Caesar...

Truly masterful...

In two short sentences, you've managed to recall to our attention the successes of your House and those you wanted as your allies in your "civil war". Maybe I'm becoming paranoid after having been too long in these halls but I can't help thinking that there is a lot of double-entendre in that speech of yours... It sounds almost as if you are trying to send Asteri a message... Plotting another civil war, My Lord ?

Masterful also, how, while flattering Nevoulas and wishing him the best in the upcoming election, you manage to tell us that you will be running against him.

I cannot but think that this is only some sly way to impress upon us the need to vote for the right person... That is you...


Truly masterful...

Clapping his hands once again, Methodios sits back down.

[Andres]

Savvas has an amused look on his face when watching Mak's show.

Ah, Grandmaster...

Yes, I know you're no longer the Grandmaster, but to me you'll always be "Grandmaster"...

And what's with all the swearing lately? Why are you upset? Is it old age which causes your bad temper? Your pneumonia perhaps?

Or is it because you don't like being in a House that holds roughly one third of the entire territory of the Byzantine Empire?

Or are you a bit frustrated because you're no longer the leader of the Order?

You know, dear Grandmaster, you should have a few drinks with me once this session is over. It'll do you some good.

Savvas raises a large goblet of wine, sips on it and puts it down again.

Anyway, dear foe, I see you still like a good bit of slander, eh? What is it now... Oh yes, I can't read.

Well, well, well.

"Basic Megas reports"? I don't need no "basic megas reports" to see that the Order has expanded excessively under your reign, dear Grandmaster.

I'm glad we have now two capable and more trustworthy candidates running for Megas. I urge whoever wins the elections to keep a close eye on our friends of the Order. I'm sure the Order won't mind a bit of "assistance" and "special attention" during the next Megas term...

With such a large empire, sorry, territory, they surely won't mind somebody watching a bit over their shoulders...

[OverKnight]

Aleksios raps his fist against the Throne three times, the sound echoes through the Magnaura. He stands to speak.

Order! Order! I will have order in the Senate!

Aleksios looks slowly around the Magnaura, making eye contact with each Senator.

Is this what we have come to? Old grievances rehashed and sarcastic asides in place of debate and legislation?

Whatever troubles that have plagued us, they have been resolved to my satisfaction. Considering that no new laws have been proposed this session to address the frequent complaints I have heard, it seems most of the Senate agrees with me.

We have a blank slate Senators, I suggest we use it.

Whatever inequalities that might still exist, the Empire has managed to reclaim, with exception of some of the Levant, all the Eastern territories that belonged to Constatine. We are again a world power. This has much to do with the men who were elected as Megas Logothetes, all of them. While each man has his detractors, each has advanced the boundaries and might of the Empire.

The system we implemented in 1081 is working. While tensions exist between Houses, between Senators and the Imperial family, and even within the Houses themselves, such competition has served to propel the Empire as a whole forward. Do not lose sight of this. Do not take it for granted.

The question is what do we do know? Do we continue forward, a fractious but succesful Empire, or do we let petty squabbles and bruised egos consume us? Our enemies lie in wait, hoping that we will destroy ourselves.

Once the Turks and Fatimids are finished, we must continue to reclaim all that was once ours. The West beckons to us Senators. Rome itself, the cradle of our Empire, calls to us for liberation. One day we will return there, one day will reclaim all that was lost. But that day will only come when we can put the Empire above faction and division, when the ambition of Romans is turned to reconquest and not against each other.

We have come too far to fall again.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Protoasecretes:

Right now, right now. It seems as if my memory is failing me, almost as if I have never done this before. What is the next step?

*A scribe leans over and whispers something into the Protoasecretes's ear.*

Ah, of course, of course!

Ahem, Senators, the period for the proposal and seconding of legislation has now passed. It seems as if there is only one piece of legislation to be voted on, and it appears to be... erm... mine! Or, rather not mine, but Arnold-God's and his Brass Prophets! In any case, I was the one who proposed it. Ha! Haha! Hahahahahahaha!

*After this fit of laughter, the Protoasecretes calms down somewhat.*

In any case, voting for this wonderful piece of work as well as the election for Megas will commence shortly. As always, the voting period will be 48 hours.

[flyd]

Isaakios slumps in his chair as he realizes that this new Protoasecretes, whether he be a replacement for the old one or just filling in, is no less strange. It seems the entire Protoasecretian Corps has collectively lost its mind. He grimaces slightly at the thought that they actually seem to have an important administrative function, but shrugs the whole thing off and nods off again.

[Cecil XIX]

Without announcement, Armatos ek Naksou bursts through the doors of the Magnaura. His armor, having normally born numerous marks and scratches from dirt and sand, is now polished to mirror sheen.

Gentlemen! Lords of Rome and Constantinople! At long, long last I have arrived! Please forgive my tardiness, for enroute to our fair capital my dromon was beset upon by a storm that could only have been sent by the Devil himself! Fortunately our Lord was with me and my men, for instead of being sent to the bottom of our sea we were merely set adrift. Indeed, it was the lord who guided my ship to my own homeland, the isle of Naxos, where we were able to make the necessary repairs and finally complete our journey.

Still. Armatos sighs It seems I missed the period of debate for this Magnaura. No matter, those laws which were necessary have been seconded, and we have an able candidate for Megas Logothetes in Nevoulas ek Philadelphius. With all due respect to the Caesar, the revelation of his intention to declare war upon the Order, denounce us as traitors, end our lives and take our land is far too recent. Considering that his plan could have gone into effect this very term were it not for the robust health of our wise and measured Basileus, it would be unreasonable to support him now.

I am sorry to see the term of my predecessor come to an end. He improved the infrastructure in twenty-seven different provinces, with each house receiving development. We should all hope that subsequent Mega should show such fairness, budget allowing.

I am also grateful for Makedonios for retiring and giving me his blessing to become Grandmaster of the Knights of St. John. I pledge to lead the Order into further prosperity, and it is deepest wish to see the Empire and Orthodoxy grow ever stronger. I shall enjoy working with you all to further that task.

[Smowz]

Nevoulas ek Philadelphius enters the chamber from the Asteri offices and strides towards the centre and nods his head in direction of the Grandmaster.

It is always good to have the support of our beloved Order of St. John.

Gentlemen we await the full results of the election. I am overwhelmed by your support and by my calculation you have indeed elected me Megas. I cannot thank you enough for this honour.

Turning now toward the Basileus and the Caeser. Bows and then says:

However all this could not be possible without the Senate that you have maintained here my lords. You may not have voted for me, for obvious reasons but make no mistake my loyalty remains toward the empire and your family. I thank you for this opportunity and I hope you find my megas term to your satisfaction.

Caeser, may I say that we have conducted one of the fairest elections with the upmost respect for each other.

[Smowz]

Fellow senators,

One of my main agendas as Megas will be to eliminate those which do us harm. The losses we have suffered, the children who have dies, the women who have been abused at the hands of these fanatics is unacceptable.

The nature of this beast is three pronged, we have the Fatamid Caliphate to the south, the mysterious Moorish threat and of course our oldest enemy the Seljuk Sultanate.

In the years of my term at office I intend to update you all on our progress in these areas. I admit in the past year I have been unable to make too many funds available to our campiagning troops and wish our my fellow senators all the best in their efforts on the frontier.

Let me start with the Fatamid Caliphate, after the recent successful crusade, the formation of the House Illes Korakas and the adventures of Vissarionas ek Lesvou the enemy has been forced out of its Egyptian outposts.

The siege of Gaza by Stavros ek Amarinthou continues, the Fatamid Sultan Bakr himself remains trapped inside. However Stavros' supplies are running dangerously low and his health seems to be wavering.

We know of a further major Fatamid settlement to the south of here known as Mecca, an important religious site for these heathens. It would be a great prize and a fatal blow to these Muslims if this was taken from them.

The army sighted by the Nile has disappeared into the wilderness, I find it difficult to believe that the army could be maintained for any length of time in the land from where they were spotted.

I continue onto the Seljuk Sultanate, despite endless victories in recent times we must continue to pursue these turks relentlessly my freinds for they will return. The last well known Turkish settlement lies in the Levant at Damascus. The capture and conversion of this area will surely be the last bastion of Islamic strength in the Holy Land.

There are rumours of further Seljuk lands to the East of here, at some stage during my term I hope to send some scouts to explore the area.

I finally move on to the Moors, an invader from parts unknown to us, the colour of their skin suggests their roots are deep in the vast continent to the south of us. We have reports from Venetian traders of ships bearing their markings sailing as close to the Italian peninsula and further more that they have a base in Cordoba in far off Espana. I intend to gather more information on this enemy.

[Ramses II CP]

An ancient scribe walks slowly to the center of the chamber bearing a letter on which can clearly be seen the personal seal of Vissarionas ek Lesvou. He still speaks loudly and clearly enough for all present in the senate chamber to hear,

Nobles of the Empire a dark and terrible day has come upon us all for that mightiest of Emperors, Aleksios the Chivalrous, Restorator of Legacy of Rome and Guardian of All Orthodoxy has at last fallen prey to that rough beast who stalks us all, time. I pray, as I am sure we all do, that he has gone to his just and well earned reward! I pray also that his like shall someday come again! I pray for the merciful gaze of the Creator to be turned upon us to spare us the coming storm!

For if any one thing is certain, it is that a vast and terrible storm builds beneath the sinews of the Empire. During the reign of Aleksios the Bold only one man among us plotted to drag down the Empire; only one man skulked in the shadows making ready for war betwixt Romans. That man is now, in name at least, Emperor. I put forward now that I will never bend knee to that snake, that false King, no more than I would turn my back on him!

I put it to you all, repudiate his claim! Reject his lies, steeped in the venom of civil war, and cast him out! It is not the way of Romans to scrape before their Lords, but to challenge them, to bring forth what is best in them, or the scatter the dust of them if they prove unworthy! This man is unworthy. It is not merely that he sought to destroy noblemen of the Empire and embroil our lands in war, not merely that he ignored and abused the law, nor that he repeatedly demonstrated cowardice in the face of the Muslim jihads. No, all that might be enough, but that is not all.

He has also-

The scribe's elegant flow of words is cut off, abruptly, by a shudder which swells through his body and causes him to collapse on his face. Two of the younger scribes rush out to see to the old man, and when they hastily flip him over the parchment he was holding flutters into the air and comes to rest with the seal down and the blank side, which the 'letter' of Vissarionas had been read from, visible.

As for the scribe, his eyes have filmed with blood and it's quite clear he is no longer breathing. The other scribes gather up the body reverantly and begin to carry it out of the chamber, pausing only to turn his effects over to the Varangians at the entrance.

(I'm sure it's rather obvious what they are, but if you care to ask the guards I'll put them in spoiler text.)

Item 1. The personal seal of Senator ek Lesvou.
Item 2. A small purse containing various personal effects such as chalk, charcoal, bit of wax wrapped in paper, a pair of fine stone writing instruments, and several old and well worn letters.
Item 3. The sole letter of note is dated from two Senate sessions ago; it is written in a crude, child-like hand, and reads,

My good friend Issakios,

I am not a writer. I can read when I must, but no more. I do not intend to return to Constantinople unless Aleksios himself calls us. Pissed the Caesar right off with that speech. Figure he'll have me killed anyway. Won't make it easy.

So I need someone to fight for me here. There is no one else. Father swears by you. I beg you, speak in my name, write in my name, carry on the struggle.

God will watch you. I know it. I have much work to do to atone. I pray I will see you again someday.

Maybe you could call yourself Isaeus. I always liked his limericks.

Vissa

:egypt:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Protoasecretes:

What? Another Basileus death? Already? *Sigh* These things are all starting to blend together...

During the new Basileus Ioannis's coronation ceremonies, the Magnaura will be closed. A short time from now the Basileus will be officially crowned in the Hagia Sophia by Patriarch Nicholas III, a ceremony in which you are all expected to attend. Afterwards, I have been informed that you will all return to the Magnaura, where the Basileus will conduct the first official business of his reign.

In the meantime, if you youngsters wish to continue deliberating amongst yourselves, I suppose the Hippodrome is always open.

The Basileus is dead! Long live the Basileus!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Protoasecretes:

*The man has had a very boring last couple of days, consistently checking the time and twiddling his thumbs.*

Hmm, why do they never invite me to these things? From what I hear, this coronation is supposed to be a real big event, with lots of speeches and dignitaries and the like. Just because I haven't left this building in... well... even I can't remember... doesn't mean I shouldn't be invited!

*He checks the time again.*

I suppose they should be just about finishing up, and that means they'll all be back here and the Basileus will conduct his official business. Wonder if they'll let him be the first to speak this time.

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis Komnenos enters the Magnaura for the first time as Basileus, with the Senators taking their seats. He sits, waiting for the nobles to swear allegiance to him.

[woad&fangs]

I swear to defend Ioannis Komnenos, ruler of the Roman Empire, and to give him such counsel as he desires. I also swear not to betray his confidence, or that of the Privy Council.

Hail to the Basileus, my brother, long may he reign over this great empire.

[Ignoramus]

When Andronikos has resumed his seat, Ioannis addresses the Magnaura.

I hereby call an Emergency Session of the Magnaura. It is only fitting that at such a momentous occasion as this, that the Magnaura be able to meet and propose edicts.

But I expect all of you to swear your allegiance before proposing any legislation. If any senator is not present, then I expect an explanation by another member of his house or another senator.

[flyd]

I swear allegiance to the new Emperor of the Romans, my brother, Ioannis.

[Cecil XIX]

I swear allegiance to Basileus Ioannis Komnenos.

[AussieGiant]

Two Varangian Guards wait by the doors of the Magnaura while Apionnas continues inside.

Walking directly to the Basileus he takes a knee and in a clear voice begins;

"I swear to defend Ioannis Komnenos, ruler of the Roman Empire, and to give him such counsel as he desires. I also swear not to betray his confidence, or that of the Privy Council."

[rossahh]

I swear allegiance to the Basileus.



I am however anxious to know what the Basileus meant by "I will bring structural reorganistion to the empire"?

[_Tristan_]

While I do not believe in such spoken oaths but rather in the actions of men, I will swear allegiance to the Basileus, if that is his will.

May he serve the Empire well as did his father.

One question has been nagging me though : I have heard many here talk of a Privy Council. Is this some new body of this state that I'm not aware of ? Who are the members of this Council or is that a secret ?

[Ituralde]

I, Pavlos Chrysovergos, swear to defend Ioannis Komnenos, ruler of the Roman Empire, and to give him such counsel as he desires. I also swear not to betray his confidence, or that of the Privy Council!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Theo smiles and says...

Well.. I heard that only House leaders and unaligned Senators must swear an allegiance to the new Basileus. In that case I have no intentions to swear something that I don't really mean.

[pevergreen]

Michail enters the Magnaura.

"I swear to defend and uphold the crown!"

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas turned to Theophylaktos Petzeas.

That is why the head of your house must swear, which he has already done.

[Northnovas]

I Aleksios et Ikoniou of the Tamagata House swear to serve and protect Basileus Ioannis Komnenos has I did his father. May your reign be long and great for the Empire.

[Smowz]

Nevoulas ek Philadelphius steps forwards in his Megas robes.

I wish to repeat out loud what I said in my report.

I, Nevoulas ek Philadelphius wish to swear an oath to serve you Basileus Ioannis Komnenus. I know that my lord Zigavinos Vasilakios has already sworn, however the leader of my house Ioannis Kalemateros has not. I have had to make several decisions for him in recent times and if he does not make it I hope that two of the three Asteri house member Oaths will be enough to convince the Basileus of our loyalty.

Nevoulas somewhat extravagantly bows...

Now, as others, I have more serious matters to attend to.


Nevoulas suddenly realises what he has said, he notices several senators are looking with shocked looks on their faces. He decided it would be best to explain his statement here and now.

I am sorry my lord, I am anxious to continue the fight - we have hounded the Muslim force of the Fatamids and the Seljuks into the deep recesses of Asia and beyond. We must not let them recover!!! I feel it is most pressing that we get back to those concerns.

I apprieciate you have concerns about the loyalties of many senators in our glorious empire, this charade will hardly allay those fears. As the Caeser rightly points out it is the actions rather than the words that these men must be judged by.

With that Nevoulas stops realising he has dug a rather large pit for himself, he knows that he can do nothing but follow through with what he has said. He exits the building hastily.

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas raises an eyebrow at the departing figure of the Megas.

I'd call an Emergency Session of the Magnaura anything but a charade.

The process is critical to this Empire moving forward as a concerted group of nobles.

And while I agree that actions speak volumes...

words bind men of integrity and honour to their actions.

Unless of course some men are comfortable with "saying one thing, while doing another."

The swearing of fealty publicly will therefore always have a place in the order of things.

[_Tristan_]

"saying one thing, while doing another."


By those nearest to him, Methodios is heard muttering while pointedly looking at the Basileus.

"Saying one thing and doing another"... That reminds me of someone...

[OverKnight]

Tiverios Indikoplefstis, at one time a backbencher, now Governor of Constantinople, enters the Magnaura. He bows to Ioannis.

I swear allegiance to the Basileus.

I am curious, besides the taking of oaths, is there any other purpose to this Emergency Session? Is there to be any legislation?

He takes his seat.

[flyd]

It doesn't look like it. So, since we haven't anything better to do, you could tell us a bit about yourself, and tell us how capable you are of adminstering the City.

[OverKnight]

Tiverios turns to Isaakios and bows his head to him before replying.

A fair question Senator Komnenos. I served under your Lord Father here in the capital as part of the Imperial Court. I undertook the administration of the City under the Basileus' supervision during the latter part of his reign. In his will, the Basileus saw fit to entrust responsibility for the capital to me.

I will continue the Basileus' policies in Constantinople to ensure that our glorious capital remains the preeminent city in all the world.

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis stands up and addresses the Magnaura.

As there are some concerns that this session is but a waste of time, I will address the issues that concern me.

Firstly, I commend Senator Tiverios Indikoplefstis for the trust he has received from my late father, in being granted the governorship of our capital. However, in the interests of the security and authority of the empire, it is only safe if the capital is under the rule of the Basileus. I therefore ask that you resign your governorship of the city, and in exchange I will grant you the governorship of Nicaea. While not as illustrious as the capital, Nicaea is currently the fourth most important city in the empire, and is a much respected position.

Secondly, I banish Theophylaktos Petzeas from the Magnaura for the rest of this session. Theophylaktos Petzeas has made it clear that he holds no loyalty towards me, and I am now giving him an opportunity to reflect upon himself. Respect for the Basileus is paramount in the smooth running of the empire.

Thirdly, I wish to propose two minor Charter Ammendments:

CA 6.1: "Varangian Guardsmen may only be recruited by the Basileus.

CA 6.2: Upon their elevation to the position of leader of a house, the senator must swear an oath of fealty to the Basileus.

The first Charter Ammendment is to simply put in law what has been the practice of several centuries. The Varangian Guard is the personal bodyguard of the Basileus, and the control of it's recruitment should be in the Basileus' hands.

The second Charter Amendment is necessary for smooth working of the empire. If the Basileus has the loyalty of all the houses, then both Basileus and Houses can work cooperatively to ensure the greatness of Rome. We must not forget how much damage civil wars have caused our empire in the past.

As the guards begin to remove Theophylaktos Petzeas from the Magnaura, the Basileus sits down.

[OverKnight]

Hearing the words of the Basileus, Tiverios raises an eyebrow, but shows no other sign of emotion. He again bows to the Basileus.

Ah, I see. Your Majesty, your Lord Father was quite clear with his instructions.

He licks his lips nervously.

I must respectfully decline your offer.

[Cecil XIX]

I second CAs 6.1 and 6.2. We need the latter to adress a gap in the logic of the Charter.

However, I protest the banning of Sergeant Theophylaktos for saying he would not mean any oath he swore to the Basileus. Firstly, how is this not merely recognition of the conflict of interest that would arise from such in act? Why else would the Basileus demand, and the CA 6.2 require, only such an oath from the heads of the house. Secondly, I worry about the precedent set by the Caesar's reasons. If the Magnaura is to function properly, it is essential that all it's members can be criticized, the lowest and the highest. We must be able to render some insults onto each other if this body is to function.

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis rises to respond.

He first addresses Indikoplefstis.

"I will let the matter drop for now. I can understand your desire and eagerness to govern the second city of the world. However, the matter will invariably come up in the future."

Turning to Grandmaster Armatos, he continues.

"Grandmaster, it is assumed that if the House leader rebels against the Basileus, his vassals should consider their highest loyalty to the Basileus. Otherwise, we will end up like the Franks, whose kingdom is constantly riven with stride and domestic conflict. I am acting early to stamp out any attempts to undermine my authority. While Senator Theophylaktos words were not in any way treason - for if they had been his punishment would have been far greater - or insults, but rather a declaration that he would not mean any oath of loyalty that he swore to me. As a consequence, I have banned him from further discussion in this relatively minor meeting of the Magnaura. Some may say that I am too harsh, but I am prepared to take criticism for my actions.

And I have no complaints about respectful and constructive criticism, but I will not bear baseless insults or challenges to my authority. In this respect, I have more admiration for you than your predecessor, Grandmaster Ksanthopoulos, who insulted me at every opportunity."

Ioannis sits down.

[rossahh]

I also second both CA 6.1 and 6.2.

Grandmaster, even though you have pointed out the apparet contradiction between CA 6.2 and Theophylaktos's expulsion, I think you will find that this statement is the one that got him into trouble - "In that case I have no intentions to swear something that I don't really mean." It seems like a slight against our new Basileus to me.

[rossahh]

Oh yes, one other thing. My Lord Ioannis apologises for his absence but he is presently on a pilgrimage with his children. He shan't be returning to the Capital until a week from now at the least, so hopefully mine and Nevoulas's vows are enough to demonstrate Asteri's loyalty to the crown.




he's on holiday in Germany in RL

[ULC]

Nikolaos enters the Magnaura, dripping wet from what appears to be a storm from outside. He gives a nod to the two Varangians at the door before entering further. With a graceful sweep that one would not expect from a man of his size, Nikolaos bows before the newly crowned Basileus Ioannis.

"I swear to serve the Emperor and the Empire, and to uphold and protect the ideals of the Imperium and her people, and be unwavering in my sworn duty. Your will be done, your wish be my doing, your command be law. Glory to you, Basileus Ioannis Komnenos."

He remains kneeling, waiting for an answer.

[Ignoramus]

The Basileus replies.

I willingly accept your oath, and I thank you for your previous acts of loyalty.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Klimis Dokeianos:

I hereby swear fealty to my Basileus, Ioannis Komnenos.

*Klimis pauses before continuing.*

I also swear fealty to Apionnas Vringas.

[_Tristan_]

Methodios stands and adresses the Caesar.

Lord, I ask you to reconsider the ban of Senator Petzeas.

Would you rather have him swear his undefectible loyalty while planning behind your back to remove you ? Or do you prefer to have speak his mind freely and thus know where to stand regarding him ? How many of those who have pledged their loyalty will be ready to challenge you in the years to come, without you being the wisest, secure in your belief of their undying loyalty ?

This ban of yours will not endear you to the people of the Empire nor to our fellow Senators. Your father, may he rest in peace, created this august body so that all the parties that composed the Empire, all opinions were given a voice, a voice that could be heard by the low as well as the mighty, so that our Empire did not live again the dark days of internal strife brought by behind-the-scenes scheming that preceded his accession to the throne.

By shutting off Petzeas' voice, you create a precedent that casts a shadow on your reign. It foreshadows a reign where ,as it was in the past, people will be afraid to talk openly and afraid to talk in the open, people will resort to playing cloak-and-dagger games to express their opinions, their anger unchecked and uncheckable, until the worst happens.

Who will you ban next ? The man that will dare question one of your proposed legislation ? The man who will dare question your authority on any matter ? Is this truly what you want ? To give yourself the image of a tyrannic leader who cannot bear any discording voice among the Empire nobility ? Surely you must see that not all Senators here present are of one mind on all matters of state... Dissent and discussion is what sets us above the barbarians...

Is that the image you want to give of your reign ?

Let Petzeas and others like him talk... Let the people hear what they have to say... Refute yourself their lies or have one of your followers refute them if you find that task too low to be accomplished by your august person.

But enough on that...

One more thing though : I am still willing to hear about this Privy Council, its composition and purpose if you would be so kind as to enlighten me on the matter.

[Warmaster Horus]

Nikiphoros wakes up from a long slumber, in the back rows of the Magnaura. Reading the latest reports, he rises, and says loudly:
"I will always support the crown, and as the crown is Ioannis Komnenos, I swear fealty to him."
Under his breath, though, he says:
"The things we do for an Empire..."

[OverKnight]

Tiverios glances about the chamber, as if trying to understand the lay of the land. He pauses and then speaks.

I swear fealty to Apionnas Vringas.

[Ignoramus]

The Basileus eyes the new Caesar curiously.

I will not reconsider my decision. Senator Petzeas has been banned from this session for the reasons I have previously stated.

The Basileus turns to address the Magnaura more broadly.

I am pleased to inform the Magnaura of the Privy Council. The Lords of the Privy Council are my brother, Andronikos, Pavlos Chrysovergos, and Apionnas Vringos. They are my personal advisors and give me their counsel on matters of state.

And I hereby appoint Apionnas Vringos as Lord High Chancellor, Pavlos Chrysovergos as Lord High Steward, and Andronikos Komnenos as keeper of the Privy Seal.

[Ituralde]

Pavlos nods gracefully.

"I thank you for this honour, Basileus!"

[Rowan]

I swear allegiance to Basileus Ioannis Komnenos.

[AussieGiant]

I hereby assign the province of Bucharest to Klimis Dokeianos.

Well done Comes Klimis. I look forward to our continuing relationship.

[TinCow]

OOC: For the record, here is the official copy of Aleksios Komnenos' will:


Next Avatar
Constantinople and Tacticius

Apionnas Vringas
Sofia and Spy Master

Caesar Ioannis
Lord High Chancellor

Ioannis Kalameteros
Lord High Steward

Makedonios Ksanthopoulos
Privy Seal

Aleksios ek Ikoniou
Veteran Warrior

[Andres]

Savvas adresses the new Basileus.

I have always been loyal to you, dear Basileus. I have no intention to change that.

Savvas bows for the new Basileus.

I remain, as always, your humble and loyal servant.

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis rises once the news of the voting has been made known to the Magnaura.

I am disappointed that the Magnaura did not pass the Charter Amendments, but it is heartening to see that personal vendettas and dispute are now behind us. I look forward to working with the Magnaura in the future.

I also wish to announce to the Megas that I wish to prioritise the construction of stone walls in Nicaea. Nicaea is a vital city, forming part of our lucrative trade centre around the Bosphorus.

The Basileus resumes his seat.

[TinCow]

Event Four

الدعوة الجديدة
al-da'wa al-jadīda

http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/book/images/alamut.gif

The acolyte entered with his head down. It was a sign of subservience, but also of vulnerability; he could not see the Old Man, but the two dozen guards that lined the balcony could see him easily enough. The room was quiet except for the muffled swish of his slippered feet on the stone floor, and the occasional creak of the taut bowstrings that were aimed at his chest. A whiff of hashish smoke drifted through the air from one of the Pleasure Gardens hidden deeper inside the castle.

When the acolyte reached the foot of the dais, he stopped and knelt. He stooped and touched his forehead to the floor, while his arms were outstretched. It was the position of ultimate respect and it left him completely defenseless. It was the only way in which the Old Man would allow an audience, even from his own followers.

“Speak.”

Without moving his head from the floor, the acolyte answered. “I bring a report from Constantinople. Basileus Aleksios Komnenos is dead. His son, Ioannis Komnenos now rules in his place.”

“How does this effect the Byzantine policy?”

“It does not, my Lord. The expected internal struggles have not appeared. Ioannis holds more authority than his father did and he has used his time as Caesar well to assemble a strong group of loyal vassals. The Senate has bowed to his will and he rules the Empire intact.”

“What of their assaults on the Fatimids and Seljuks?”

“They continue unabated, my Lord. Basileus Ioannis does not appear to desire peace, and even those Byzantine Senators that oppose him openly are eager to seize more land for their own profit. It is only a matter of time before the Sultanate and the Caliphate are destroyed.”

There was a long pause. The acolyte’s neck was beginning to ache, but he dared not move. Eventually the Old Man spoke once again.

“If the Fatimids and Seljuks are destroyed, we will have to find new employers. Dissent and rival factions remain inside the Senate, do they not?”

“Yes, my Lord.”

“Then we shall offer our services to the Byzantines directly. The Senators will surely be pleased to make use of more subtle means of attacking their opponents. Allah will also be pleased to have us aid the infidels in their own destruction. So let it be written, so let it be done.”

“It shall, my Lord.”

“Good, go now and rest in the Gardens. Tomorrow you will return to Constantinople with several of the most skilled initiates. We will begin work immediately.”

The acolyte rose to his feet, but remained bowed at the waist with his eyes on the floor. Slowly he backed away, his arms still outstretched. When he finally reached the door through which he had entered, he turned to his right and looked up. A woman stood there in long silk robes and a veil; only her eyes were visible, yet their gaze was sensual and penetrating. She beckoned to him, then turned and walked away. He followed her into the Pleasure Gardens, and soon all weariness faded from his body.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rules

The Hashshashin sect of Shia Muslim assassins has arrived in Constantinople to offer its services to the Senators of the Byzantine Empire who now dominate the region. These men are skilled assassins and saboteurs who are capable of infiltrating even the most tightly guarded castle. They are loyal beyond measure and are totally resistant to all methods of torture and interrogation.

1) Senators may hire the Hashshashin to commit acts of assassination and sabotage against other Senators. In order to hire the Hashshashin, a PM must be sent to TinCow (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=6193) listing a single Senator as the target for the desired attack and the method in which that Senator’s possessions are to be attacked (see #3).

2) The Hashshashin do not offer their service for free. All Senators will be required to pay for the attacks. Fortunately, all Senators with provinces have sufficient personal income to be able to make use of their services. The higher a Senator’s rank, the more income he will have available to pay for attacks. The amount of income that the Senators can spend on the Hashshashin per Megas term is as follows:


Strator - 0
Comes - 1
Domestikos - 1
Hypatos - 2
Antypatos - 2
Patrikios - 3
Dux - 3
Megas Dux/Exarch - 4
Caesar - +1 to his other Rank income
Basileus - 4
Megas - +2 to his other Rank income


Income replenishes at every normal Senate session. Senators may combine their incomes to purchase Hashshashin attacks that they would otherwise not be able to afford by themselves. However, in order for this to work, all Senators involved must submit instructions to TinCow listing who they are cooperating with, how much of the cost they are paying, which Senator is the target, and what kind of attack is to be undertaken. If all Senators involved do not submit instructions that match in these aspects, the attack will not be carried out.

3) The available methods of attack and their costs are as follows:


Killing/destroying a single non-relic ancillary. (Cost: 1) The specified ancillary must be on the targeted Senator. Province title ancillaries may not be destroyed, nor may the Privy Seal, Lord High Chancellor, or Lord High Steward.
Destroying a single military or naval unit. (Cost: 1) The specified unit must be owned by the targeted Senator.
Destroying a religious relic ancillary. (Cost: 2) The specified ancillary must be on the targeted Senator.
Destroying a non-military building. (Cost: 2) The specified building must be located in a settlement owned by the targeted Senator and must be destroyable through the city interface.
Destroying a military building. (Cost: 3) The specified building must be located in a settlement owned by the targeted Senator and must be destroyable through the city interface.

4) The Hashshashin attacks will occur the game turn after TinCow receives the PM and will be implemented by TinCow directly, or by instructing the Megas on what to disband, destroy, or remove. Hashshashin attacks have a 1 in 6 chance of failing if they have a cost of 1, a 1 in 3 chance of failing if they have a cost of 2, and a 1 in 2 chance of failing if they have a cost of 3. The identity of the person who hired the Hashshashin will never be revealed by TinCow unless the Senator requests it.

5) Senators involved in a Civil War cannot hire Hashshashin and cannot be targeted by Hashshashin.

6) This Event does not have an expiration date and continues until TinCow revokes it. TinCow may adjust the rules of this event, including cost, income, and types of attacks available, while the Event is still in effect.

[Ignoramus]

Basileus Ioannis rises to address the Magnaura.

I have heard rumours that the Hashshashin intend to offer their services to us. I wish to strongly caution all of you from engaging in underhand acts against each other. Any attack of any kind only serves to make all senators distrust each other.

I also wish to announce my intention of making peace with the Fatimids. We have driven them back into Arabia, and can easily contain them in that horrible place. Destroying them completely would be dangerous, as after all, we did start this war.

I command Caesar Methodios to lift the siege of Medina until a diplomat can be dispatched to negotiate terms with the Fatimids. If they refuse all offers of peace, then the war may continue. I commend the Caesar on his illustrious command and generalship in bringing these Arabs to their knees.

The Seljuks, on the other hand, can be fought against until they are utterly destroyed. These Turks have gone past any hope of redemption and should be removed for the good of the empire.

The Basileus resumes his seat.

[ULC]

Nikolaos eyes the Caesar.

"May I ask how "Destroying them completely would be dangerous"? The continued persistence of the Fatimid Caliphate is a danger to the Empire, and my House will continue to seek their eradication. Also, if you wish to make any requests of my House members, I would delighted if you asked me. As for right now, no, Methodios will not lift the siege, doing so would risk his life pointlessly."

[ULC]

I swear my allegiance to the Empire and Emperor.

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas notes the strange series of statements by Nikolaos Aristenos while leaning against the wall of the Magnaura. When Nikolaos Aristenos finished speaking he makes his way out of the chamber while speaking softly to a number of administrators and Guardsmen.

[Smowz]

Nevoulas ek Philadelphius storms into the Magnuara. Calming himself he approaches the centre of the floor.


I urge the Basilues to reconsider making such commands. This is the kind of abuse of power that has lead to the destruction of previous emperors.

You surely must know that this kind of command will greatly upset the Caeser and his house leader. Know this it likewise greatly upsets myself. I had hoped that we were restoring the empire to the dream of a Roman Republic whereby such decisions were voted on by members of the the Magnuara.

By making demands such as these we may as well tear down these walls and pronounce you dictator.

The Fatamids AND the Seljuks have been our enemies for many years now, they are our sworn enemy and will remain so until the are utterly destroyed.

I will not support this action and if this results in further action against me then so be it.

If you need me I shall be in Athens where I have important business to attend to, my aide hear will remain to take note of any further comments mentioned.

[Dafuge]

Basillues, I must offer a point aswell. Can you not see that once securing the last provinces of the Fatamids we can secure the behind of our Empire. Once this is done we can concentrate in mass on the remaining Turks which should not take long with the armys of the Empire. Then we can once again push west into the heart land of the Pope's Christians or North into the pagan lands.

[_Tristan_]

A messenger walks into the Magnaura.

My Lord, grave news. Our Caesar has been severely wounded while taking Medina. The castle has falen and the Sultan is dead, though some obscure pretender has taken up the crown.

My Lord will not be able to push forward to Mecca and deprive the muslim of the most holy city.

Nevertheless, he is sure some will take up the torch and carry on the enlightenment of those heathens.

Leaving some of them alive would only invite retribution at the hands of the sons or grandsons of the men we have already defeated.

[Dafuge]

My lord, I will make my way to Madina with all due haste. I am wondering if it would be quiker to head Southwards and cross the red sea or to continue East and then South.

[TinCow]

The Protoasecretes slowly wakes up from his slumbering. He looks around carefully, squinting at the Senators present in the Magnaura. He seems to grow suspicious, then cocks his head and listens intently. After a short while, he gives up. Whether this is due to his failure to hear what he was listening for, or failure to hear anything at all, remains unclear.

"Eh, it seems you have managed to get through yet another term without massacring each other. Congratulations, now try and keep the bloodshed in check until this Senate session is completed!"

"I hereby declare the Senate Session of 1155 AD open! It will remain open until Monday, October 20th at 23:00 GMT."

[GeneralHankerchief]

*Klimis walks into the room, gazing around for a minute before speaking.*

Klimis Dokeianos:

I hereby stand for Megas. I promise to do a competant job and be a fair leader. Thank you.

[TinCow]

The Protoasecretes jerks his head sharply and looks at the wall. He raises his eyebrows and nods his head franticly, as if in agreement to an unhead conversation.

"Yes, yes, my Lord! I will do so immediately!"

He turns to the Senate and rises in a dramatic fashion, his arms outspread, before suddenly experiencing a sharp pain in his back and sitting back down quickly.

"The Great Green Arkleseizure commands that I put forward the following legislation! He says that it will aid the Empire and forstall The Coming of the Great White Handkerchief!"

Charter Amendment 6.1: Separation of IC and OOC Legislation


Rule 3.3 will be changed to read as follows:


3.3 – Edicts: Edicts require a simple majority of weighted votes to pass and remain in effect until the next normal session of the Senate. Tied Edicts fail. If contradictory Edicts are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority. Edicts can only be enforced by IC means. Edicts cannot contradict the Game Rules.

Rule 3.4 will be changed to read as follows:


3.4 – Codex Amendments: Amendments require a two-thirds majority of weighted votes to pass and remain in effect permanently, or until repealed by another Codex Amendment. Codex Amendments can only be enforced by IC means. Codex Amendments cannot contradict the Game Rules.

The current Rules 3.5 through 3.9 will be renumbered as 3.6 through 3.10, and a new Rule 3.5 will be added as follows:


3.5 – Rule Changes: Rule Changes require a two-thirds majority of unweighted votes (1 vote per player) to pass. Rule Changes can permanently change the Game Rules. Any player can propose Rule Changes, regardless of IC rank. TinCow can veto any proposed Rule Change, but does not vote. Game Rules are enforced by IC or OOC means, as TinCow sees fit.

All *s will be removed from all Game Rules.
TinCow will determine whether all previously passed CAs count as Codex Amendments or Rule Changes.


Charter Amendment 6.2: The following Rule will be added:


1.7 - Game Master: TinCow will serve as Game Master and is responsible for management of the game and enforcement of the Game Rules. TinCow can delegate any of his powers to another person whenever he chooses.

Charter Amendment 6.3: A new version of LotRmod will be released which restores the wage cost of family members and recruitable generals restored to normal; it is currently half of normal.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Klimis Dokeianos:

I second all three CAs.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Theo walks into the Magnaura. Looks like the years on the sea have made him happier and more content...

Welcome fellow Senators!

Caesar Io.. I mean Basileus Ioannis, any chance to forget the past? I think what happened in past, what I said in the past should stay there. I have found my happy place, it's the sea and the fleet under my command, and I don't want to worry about some old grudges!

Getting to his seat he turns around and says..

I almost forgot, I second CA 6.1, 6.2 and 6.3 as well!

Taking his seat he turns towards Klimis..

You look kind of new here! Haven't seen you here before. Anyway, Klimis Dokeianos, what are your plans for your Megas term? Why do you want to be Megas? What will you do when you become one?

[Ituralde]

Senators of the Empire!

I am not a great talker, I have been a soldier half of my life and a general the other half. Fate has seen to it that I served the Basileus in reconquering Anatolia from the Seljuk threat. This has thrown me into the position of leader of the Komnenodoukai. Why do I tell you all this?

I, Pavlos Chrysovergos, offer myself for the position of Megas Logothetes!

The last years have seen us succeed against the Sultanates of the East, I will do my best to finish this job and drive those heathens out of our reach once and for all! At the same time I will give my full support to the recent Megas, Nevoulas ek Philadelphias, who has done a bloody good job, and the Basileus' brother Isaakios Komnenos in their expedition to the far-away lands of the Moors. The West will not be neglected by me. Our borders to the bloody Catholics in the north need to be robust and strong, while we work on eventually securing our former possessions.

My loyalties lie as always with the Empire and its Basileus, it is the foundation upon which our Empire is built. I will not tolerate unloyal behaviour or threats of Civil War. Under my rule as Megas the Roman Empire will stand united against its enemies. I will consider the requests of all of you equally and see that they are carried out in a fashion that is acceptable to all.

I ask this Assembly to honour my offer and bless me with their vote!

Pavlos bows slightly before returning to his seat.

[OverKnight]

Tiverios rises to speak.

I must congratulate Nevoulas ek Philadelphias on an excellent term as Megas Logothetes. Despite Jihads and the passing of Basileus Aleksios he has guided us with a steady hand. Our foes in the east are nearly vanquished. We have accomplished much.

However, I must remind the Senate of some of the last words that our former Basileus spoke in this chamber:

"Once the Turks and Fatimids are finished, we must continue to reclaim all that was once ours. The West beckons to us Senators. Rome itself, the cradle of our Empire, calls to us for liberation. One day we will return there, one day will reclaim all that was lost."

I say that day has come! I say we have tolerated the insolence of our former vassals too long, I speak of Venice! We gave them shelter when they were nothing but fishermen at the edge of a lagoon, and how have they repaid us? With treachery and deceit! They sit on lands that are rightfully Roman, they swindled us out of the island of Crete and their merchants dominate the eastern trade. They took took advantage of our past weakness, but we are weak no more!

I propose Edict 6.1: War is to be declared on the Republic of Venice. All Venetian lands once under the sway of the Roman Empire will be reclaimed.

This war will not be easy, but if we are to continue to reclaim what is ours, it is inevitable. Let us take the initiative! With holdings in Egypt, it is imperative that we have Crete as well. Venetian lands in Dalmatia and Italy will give us access to our former heartland and a gateway to Rome herself.

I humbly ask for your support.

Tiverios resumes his seat.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I second Edict 6.1

A long time ago they planned to strike us. They had all information about our defences in Balkans. I don't know why they did not attack us but it is time to end this threat of Venice!

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas moves into the chamber flanked by guards and administrators, taking a seat he reads the minutes of the chamber session, a raised eyebrow and a brief glance at Klimis interrupts his scanning of the edicts and words of the senators present.

[AussieGiant]

While still seated Apionnas is approached by an extremely well dress messenger. He reads the note and then stands.

I second Edict 6.1.

[Smowz]

Nevoulas ek Philadelphius strides into the senate full of purpose, he briefly stops to talk with his aide to update himself on words spoken already by his fellow senators. He is carrying with him a bundle of robes neatly folded, behind him are 4 retainers carrying large stacks of papers.

Looking at the new candidates for the Megas position he mouthes the words 'I see' and calmly moves towards the middle of the floor.

My fellow Romans, it has given me great pleasure and honour to wear these robes that are in my hands today. Behind me, my servents have the papers detailing all the details of this empire, these details are open to all of you to have a look through if you so wish. I hope you find the accounts up to date.

When I came into these halls to announce my candidacy for becoming the Megas, I spoke of two major issues that I wished to address. The development of the Castle facilities in the west and continuing pursuit to enemies that would do us harm.

I believe that when you see the work on Sofia, Belgrade and Corinth that you will see that I have upheld those values. These centres can now be put to work, to realize the ambitions of many western senators. My aide tells me that young Comes Tiverios Indikoplefstis has asked for war to be waged on Venice. I applaud the senetors courage and look forward to this new generation of senators as they prove themselves on the battlefield.

War continues in the East, however the Fatimind Caliphate are now completely on their knees wimpering for surrender. We have captured the Medeterrainian port of Acre and even more impressively the holy city of Medina. This was at great cost to the House Illes Korakas, now the absent Vissarionas ek Lesvou. He surely has the resources he needs to finish the job there. I look forward to the day when the last of this dynasty has been destroyed.

The Seljuk Sultanate have also suffered many defeats at the hands of our generals. They have been a more sturdy foe, and victories have not been cheap. The key capture of Damascus however coupled with the rebellion at Jerusalam will surely now allow the Order to fully prosper in the region. Andrinikos Komnenus seems sure to move forward and capture Baku on the shores of the Caspian. The final bastion of power will take more time to move towards in Baghdad and Mosel, I encourage caution in moving forward here.

Finally, I have finally began the voyage towards the western holds of the Moors. I will not let them off their crimes against this empire. The main body of my forces are now on their way toward the Italian peninsula. It is this mission that means that I will certainly not be re-running for Megas as I may have hinted in the past.

I wish Comes Klimis Dokeianos and Antipatos Pavlos Chrysovergos the best in the Megas elections, and indeed anyone else who wishes to step forward and take up the mantle.

I have some unfinished business that I was unable to complete during my term and that was the economical stability of the empire.

I converted Scopia, Aleppo and Trebizond into marketable places which have shown a marked increase in their economical viability. I would like to point out their are other redundant Castle like facilities in the empire. The Castles within the holy land for example are too many in number, his emeninence Grandmaster Armatos ek Naksou has worked with me to correct this problem and soon Tortosa will be ready for conversion.

However I am concerned about the island settlements of Rhodes and Nicosia. These two places should be overflowing with trade oppurtunities, however they remain dark, distant places.

I put forward Edict 6.2: The settlements of Nicosia and Rhodes are to be converted (or begin to be converted) from Castles into towns by then end of the next Megas term. In the event of this edict passing, failure to comply should result in an investigation as to why this has not been carried out and an economic punishment will result on the guilty party. This investigation would be carried out by the nominator of said edict, Nevoulas ek Philadelphius.

[Ignoramus]

The Basileus rises and addresses the Magnaura.

I wish to announce the joyful news of the bestowal of the hand of Hypatia Tagaris upon my brother, Andronikos Komnenos. May their union strengthen the empire and I wish them the very best of married happiness.

I am uncomfortable of declaring war on the Venetians, but I believe that their unlawful occupation of Crete and Bari leaves us little choice. I therefore support the edict of Comes Tiverios.

The Basileus resumes his seat.

[OverKnight]

Tiverios bows to the Basileus.

Thank you, your Majesty.

It seems that the latest map (https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1155/maphistory.jpg) in the Senate Library shows that Bari is now under the occupation of the rapacious Sicilians or whatever those upjumped Norman adventurers call themselves now. They seem to have wrested it from the Venetians in the last 15 years.

They also occupy our former lands, but. . .I would prefer to move against them once the Venetians are subdued. They have holdings in Italy and Africa, and by the time we have northern Italy, I'm sure we will have finished the Fatimids. This will allow us to concentrate on the Normans, squeezing them from many points of attack.

First things first, however.

[OverKnight]

Tiverios turns to Nevoulas.

Comes ek Philadelphius, perhaps the carrot might work better than the stick in this matter?

If the two settlements are converted during the next term, the owners could be rewarded with a prioritised build for each settlement to be begun before the end of the term.

This way we have productive new towns and we avoid legal wrangling and investigations.

[TinCow]

*The Protoasecretes is snoring loudly in the corner. A particularly loud snore causes the old man to wake himself up.*

"Eh, what?!"

*He looks around, suspiciously, seeing that the Senate is fully underway.*

"I wasn't done yet! Damn youngsters... *grumble* ...no respect for their elders... *grumble* ...pecan pie..."

Charter Amendment 6.4: The Prioritized Building Rules will be changed to match the style of the Prioritized Unit Rules. The following text in all PB Rank Powers: "Once per full 10 turn Megas Logothetes term" will be changed to read "If this rank is held during a Normal Senate Session". Megas' Limitations on Power 2 will have the following added to the beginning: "Prioritized Buildings – "

[Smowz]

Nevoulas sits ups straight, young Tiverios had a point. He was used to dealing with black and white of the old days he had forgotten a more diplomatic way of doing things

I second Charter amendment 6.4.

I hereby amend my edict to be worded as follows

Edict 6.2a) The settlements of Nicosia and Rhodes are to be converted into towns (or began to be converted) by the end of the next Megas term. If such actions are taken thenthe house leaders of the controller of the province will be given an extra priortised building in the next term after that.

[OverKnight]

Tiverios speaks up.

Senator Nevoulas, thank you for taking my words under advisement. I do not wish to belabor the point, but if your Edict reaches beyond the next term, it would have to be a Charter Amendment. All Edicts expire at the end of the term for which they are proposed.

If done with some speed, a conversion could be done on both settlements and a prioritised build begun in those settlements within the same term.

I will also second CA 6.4

[Smowz]

Pah, I dont know why I bother. I have had my problems in the past with this body and once again I am left frustrated.

The problem with both these settlements is the owners of them seemed to have retired from public life. I say give Rhodes and Nicosia themselves life and importance in the empire, this is what I am trying to achieve with the edict. Given I cannot propose a cursed Charter amendment then I restore the well meaning edict to its original wording.

It stands as Edict 6.2 The settlements of Nicosia and Rhodes are to be converted (or begin to be converted) from Castles into towns by then end of the next Megas term. In the event of this edict passing, failure to comply should result in an investigation as to why this has not been carried out and an economic punishment will result on the guilty party. This investigation would be carried out by the nominator of said edict, Nevoulas ek Philadelphius.

I am sorry for the confusion.

[OverKnight]

Tiverios nods.

You raise a valid concern. I will second Edict 6.2. It deserves to be voted on at least.

[woad&fangs]

I second edict 6.2

[GeneralHankerchief]

Klimis Dokeianos:

My plans are to execute the will of the Magnaura. If they tell me to go west, I will fund and supply it. If they tell me to hold and consolidate, I will hold and consolidate. If they tell me to send a lone ship carrying a single general and his bodyguard to Scotland to conquer it in the name of the Basileus, then I will do that. I will not be averse to anything that this august body or its ruler demands.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Klimis Dokeianos:

My personal desire, however, is to see the Byzantine Empire grow. I think, after the well-executed term of the previous Megas, we can definitely handle an increase in territories.

[deguerra]

I second edict 6.2 as well.

[ULC]

Nikolaos enters with a boy no older then 15, both smelling of the sea and both dressed in House colors. He takes his seat, with the boy standing at rigged military attention at his side as if that was as relaxed as he could be.

"Much legislation has been proposed I see, and each has had the seconds each requires. Nonetheless, I second CA 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4 and Edicts 6.1 and 6.2"

"I would like to bring attention to the rather despondent way in which our soldiers are equipped. They need better arms in armor, nay, they deserve better, especially if we are to mobilize for proper war. So therefore I propose Edict 6.3: All settlements throughout the Empire will have at the minimum a Leather Tanner, and each will also have the maximum level of troop training building."

"I warmly invite comments and suggestions upon my proposed Edict."

[pevergreen]

Michail rises, for the first time in many years. Shadows are under his eyes, a painful glint is present. All can tell he is weary of life.

"Nikolaos, I agree with your opinion on the armour of our men! They serve us, the least we can do is give them some basic padding! However, I disagree with the second half of Edict 6.3, we do not need the maximum level of troop training building in all our settlements. Apart from the costs, which are set to rise, due to us all increasing our bodyguards pay by 100%, but once again its not needed due to location."

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Theo looks surprised...

Our bodyguards get .. payed? Now.. let's be quiet about this. Don't want them to know that!

[Smowz]

Nevoulas ek Philadelphius is seen discussing matters with a man at the door. Looking angry he marches back to the senate floor.

I must confess I have been rather passive towards the edict proposing war against Venice. However my aide from Belgrade here says they continue to insist on sending missionaries and spies into our bordering provinces. I have worked hard to try and keep Catholic influence from spreading its way into the outlying provinces but it seems the Bishop of Rome continues to sponsor these Cardinals or Venice in our realm.

This is an outrage and just cause for war. Know this I will be backing Edict 6.1 fully.

[_Tristan_]

A weary and heavily limping Methodios walks into the Magnaura. Visibly struggling to stand up straight to adress the assembled Senators, he intones loud and clear.

My Lord Ioannis,

Though you are making my daughter the greatest of honours by asking for her to be married to your brother Andronikos, she is my first-born and ,with my only son, holds a very special place in my heart. I cannot force upon her a man not of her own choosing and she has made known to me that she has been wooed successfully by another man, whose identity I prefer to leave secret, at this point, lest pressure be applied upon him to desist.

I would have been pleased if you had consulted me before making the announcement, Sire, for I do not like to talk you down in public. The matter could have been resolved peacefully and more importantly, secretly...

I hope young Andronikos will bear me no grudge and that he will realize that he will find a worthy wife in due time... I would not have these two young people lead an unhappy married life.

Should you wish to press the point my Lord, you would find me most adamant... Though some may say I've spoiled the kid but I just couldn't help it. Should you wish to proceed onwards, Sire, you will have to sail to Egypt and take my daughter away from my lifeless body. But I am sure it will not come to these extremities.

Finishing his tirade, Methodios seems to have shrugged a huge weight off his shoulders and seems to liven up.

That said...

As to the legislation that has been proposed here, I fully agree with what our half-mad Protoasecretes has put forward (God knows where his enlightenment comes...).

I also fully support the legislation put forward by Tiverios. From my early campaigning days both in the field and before this assembly, I have always been an advocate of war on our Christian brothers. Now, with the Muslim threat almost at an end, the time has finally come to show them the erros of their ways and reclaim what is rightfully ours.

Methodios' face seems to light up from within and his eyes take on a fierce cast as if already seeing the fights coming up against the Christians.

While I also agree that our men under arms should all have the best armour we can provide, for it may make the difference between a living and a dead man, and only a living one can fight another day, I'd like to Captain-General Aristenos to amend his proposal so that it doesn't include the barracks part. Some of our settlements have other priorities than fielding men, be it producing trade or food for the Empire and rely on neighbouring settlements for their protection so I do not find that part relevant to our present situation. Maybe turning it so that only castles would be required to do so might be the best of both worlds.

Methodios nods with a smile at Nikolaos, intent on taking out some of the rebuke out of his speech.

I also fully endorse Edict 6.2. Castles will be less and less necessary in our heartlands as our borders grow. It would be more practical to adequately fund the improvement of Corinth, for example, than have three castles having to share the same funds, taking perhaps more than three times more time and funds to obtain the same recruitment capabilities.

Now, with your permission, I will retire to my rooms. My clerks will advise me of any event requiring my renewed attendance in these halls.

With renewed vigour but a still heavy limp, Methodios walks out of the Magnaura.

[woad&fangs]

Methodious, I too wish this matter had been resolved in private but it is now in the open so let us talk openly. Because of your position as Caesar, any offspring your daughter produces would have a legitimate claim to the throne. For this reason, it is best that she marries someone of good Greek blood. Who's blood is more pure than that of a Komnene?

The marriage of a princess is about much more than love. It is about ensuring the best possible political and royal match. That is why, in their infinite wisdom, the creators of our charter placed this responsibility on the Basileus. The fact that I have promised to always protect and cherish your daughter is a privelege that few princesses are fortunate enough to recieve.

Now let us see this lowly goatherd who you have betrothed your eldest daughter to. Or is he such a coward that he will not stand up to defend his claim to the women he supposedly loves?

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas leans forward making sure he makes eye contact with the Basileus, his brother and at least the back of the departing Methodios. His tone indicates some steel in his comments.

My Lords,

I would recommend any further comments about the Princess and who she is to marry, be made in private before anyone is placed in a completely untenable position.

If, of course that has not already been reached!!

[flyd]

Indeed, talking about Andronikos' attempts to find a woman is something traditionally left to taverns, parties, streets, the court, houses, and generally anywhere behind his back. We have some very important things to discuss here, such as the potential war with Venice. Would each of the candidates tell us, if they were elected and if the Edict passed, when they would declare the war, where they would attack, how they would conduct the war, what the biggest challenges would be, and how much they think would get accomplished by the end of the term?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Klimis Dokeianos:

Should the Magnaura declare war on Venice, I would hit them with a three-pronged attack. One line would come up the eastern coast of the Adriatic, one would sweep in through the north, and the other would be an amphibious invasion from the south. I do not want a prolonged war, rather, a quick and dirty affair with the goal of having Venice either completely conquered or very close to it by the end of my term. Naturally, Crete would be taken as well.

[Ignoramus]

The Basileus rises as Methodios' departing figure exits the Magnaura.

"I am sorry that the Caesar feels this way, but the decision is for the good of the empire. In these times, we of the nobility can hardly be expected to marry for love.

The marriage will be celebrated after this session of the Magnaura has concluded in the Hagia Sophia.

Now, turning to other matters, I wish to second Charter Amendments 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, and 6.4.

Also, I would like to propose a Charter Amendment.

CA 6.5: Varangian Guardsmen may only be recruited by the Basileus."

The Basileus sits down.

[ULC]

Nikolaos nods to the comments on his edict. "There are no hard feelings! We are here to work out legislation. As such, I will change Edict 6.3 to Edict 6.3b: All settlements throughout the Empire will have at the minimum a Leather Tanner, and each Castle will also have at least one of the highest level of troop training building available.


The boy coughs, and Nikolaos gives him a wry look. The boy shrugs innocently, a grin escaping from under his hood, and Nikolaos returns back to the Magnaura. "Demetrios would like to point out that the princess is currently within my Houses territory...nothing against you, Basileus Ioannis, but I must respect Methodios's wishes..."

[Ignoramus]

The Basileus eyes Nikolas curiously.

"You would respect your lord's wishes over my own? Interesting."

[ULC]

Nikolaos raises an eyebrow. "Forgive me, but I am in fact Methodios rightful Lord as of now. if you wish to discuss this with me further, let us do it in private and return to discussing the required legislation for this war with Venice."

[Ignoramus]

Ignoring Nikolas, the Basileus stands to address the Magnaura.

"Anna Kalameteros has informed me of resignation from the position of Dean. As such, I am required to appoint a new Dean for Constantinople's university.

After much deliberation, I have chosen Apionnas Vringos. He served my father well, and is well known for having the best interests of the empire at heart. I now ask him to select the scholars for the next 15 years."

The Basileus resumes his seat.

[ULC]

The boy behind Nikolaos snorts and stifles a chuckle, before he begins speaking. "Surely you jest? Are you going to be this open in your political seclusion and lapdogging? My father rolls over in his grave right now. Not only do you openly court those who kiss the backside of your heels and ass, you make the election a shame by selecting two men obviously within your camp to insure that you can continue your partisan pursuits, while trying to buy Methodios off by forcing his unwilling daughter into marrying a man who can't seem to find a woman any other way. Oh, and you gain the confusion and torn loyalties of an entire House. Wonderful, I'd love to see your next move. Will it be dressed in bright, rainbow colors so bright that even the blind hide their eyes in pain?"

Nikolaos noticeably pales. "Demetrios, please leave now..."

[OverKnight]

Tiverios coughs uncomfortably.

[Ituralde]

Pavlos looks at Nikolaos

Maybe you better keep a check on your lapdog, before his insults reflect on you. No one here was prevented from bloody running for the position of Megas. If you are unhappy with the candidates run yourself! And yes, I know what loyalty to the Empire and the Basileus means, and I am proud of it!

He turns to the Magnaura as a whole his scowl only slowly fading.

The war on Venice would hinge on the cooperation of those Senators closest to our Northern and Western border. Ideally enough Senators would be willing to campaign that we can launch an amphibious strike across the Adriatic and another along the Adriatic coast. Those Senators wishing to join in a campaign on Venice should let their wishes be known.

The time of the attack depens on how long the recruitment of enough troops will take. I would move forward more slowly than my fellow candidate. If we overextend then we don't have enough troops available should the Catholics retalliate. Seeing us close to his city the Pope might convince the Hungarians to threaten our Northern border or the Normans to invade Greece. By the end of my term as Megas Venice should be within our grasp, ready to fall in our hands.

[Ignoramus]

The Basileus looks sternly at Nikolas Aristenos.

"Whether or not you are responsible for you lapdog's comments, you must be held accountable. I am hereby banning you from the remainder of the Magnaura session. It is not by any account a harsh penalty, as there are not many hours left before the voting begins. Please reflect more carefully in the future of your companions."

The Basileus resumes his seat.

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas stood to speak, however after the Basileus's last comment regarding Senator Aristenos, he raises an eyebrow and resumes his seat, his eyes now sifting through the applications for the University.

From his seated position he says;

I second CA 6.5

[pevergreen]

"I wish to know why our 'lord' wishes our best fighting men only under his command? I question your motives Ioannis."

[Andres]

Savvas stumbles into the Magnaura. His face clearly shows the signs of a rough night. He sits down and empties a goblet of wine, muttering to his scribe 'I'm getting too old for this nonsense'.

He stands up and addresses the Magnaura.

Allthough I wish both candidates the best of luck with their campaign, I must say that I prefer experience over youth and thus I want to make it public that I support the candidacy of Pavlos. His decades of loyal service to the Empire and our Basileus are an example for all of us.

The Fatimids and Seljuks have been disposed of and I agree that the time to march West has finally come. I support edict 6.1 wholeheartedly.

But we should be more ambitious then that.

Therefore, I propose Edict 6.4.: The Empire will conduct a direct assault on Rome. An army containing at least 15 regiments will be shipped over the province of Rome and shall march on the City of Rome. After conquering Rome, the city will be occupied.

Yes, fellow Senators. I am convinced that the time has come.

Rome belongs to us, let's take it!

Savvas takes the goblet of his scribe and drinks. He mutters 'bah, water" and spits out the water, accidentally in the direction of Klimis Dokeianos. He mutters "sorry", fills his own goblet with red wine and empties it.

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas:

My lords, the following Senators are currently scholars at the University.

Patrikios Armatos ek Naksou

Patrikios Ioannis Kalameteros

Strator Andronikos Komnenos

Domestikos and Caesar Methodios Tagaris

I would request these gentlemen resubmit their reasons for remaining part of this August learning body if they wish to remain.

I am also asking all other senators to submit their own cases for admission.

All submission must include the trait they wish to enhance or remove and why.

[Ramses II CP]

(OOC: With the permission and aid of AG, of course.)

To one side of the Magnaura a whispered debate breaks out among a group of scholars. At last one of them hesitantly brings forward an outside messenger who displays a letter bearing the seal of Vissarionas ek Lesvou. The messenger nervously glances at the Emperor and the members of the Privy Council for any sign of disapproval before he begins to read.

Senators of Rome,

A pretender sits among you issuing commands and proclamations that run counter to the good and necessary running of the Empire. That vile false king struts about trying to mismanage our war in Egypt and the Holy Lands for his own petty causes, ignoring what is best for Byzantium herself. He even threatens to steal away our children for his nefarious purposes!

What is worst, though, is that he does all this at the behest of Islam itself! He is stealing away our Empire to deliver it into the hands of Muslims. Here, near their base of operations, word runs rampant that the Emperor is seeking a deal with the cult of Assassins to secure their services for him and his cronies alone.

I am certain I need not point out that a Muslim sits among you even now, enjoying the highest positions, indolent in luxury provided by the power of the throne.

God watches our Empire, for it is beloved of him, and surely he is not pleased by what he sees. I hear word that we may move to make war on the Catholics. I am certain we will find victory despite the absence of a true leader at the head of our nation, but nonetheless be wary of launching this war! If the false king supports it then it must somehow aid his nefarious Muslim heart!

The day is coming when my work here will be finished, when I will return to Constantinople myself. If I have discovered anything here in the desert it is that God saves no mercy for the infidel or those who shelter him, protect him, or work with him. I beg you, noble senators, do not be counted among that number, for God has a higher purpose for our Empire than dancing on the puppet strings of Islam!

Vissarionas ek Lesvou

As he reaches the end of the letter the messenger at last takes his eyes from the throne and sheepishly glances around the chamber, relieved to have completed his duty. The depth of his error becomes apparent as abruptly Apionas Vringas leaps up from his seat and, with a wordless roar of fury, seizes the messenger by the throat. Holding the slight man up with only his toes still in contact with the floor, Apionas says,

It is to this degree that I hold the words of this messenger and the person who wrote them in contempt and treason.

Forcing the messenger's head back with his thumb Vringas then drives the side of his other hand forcefully into the flesh of the man's throat, knocking him out entirely. With a rough shake Vringas determines that the messenger is truly unconscious before depositing him on the Senate floor for the guards to drag away.

:egypt:

[Dafuge]

Efthymios views this shocking scene and his face turns purple.

Um, well, I will be back later, I have some buisness to sort out before I put my point forward. Yes, um, goodbye.

Efthymios trots out and breaks into a jog when near the doors of the Magnaura.

[TinCow]

*The Protoasecrets tamps his staff loudly on the marble floor of the Magnaura.*

"ORDER! THERE WILL BE ORDER IN THE SENATE!"

*He glares balefully at Senator Vringas.*

"Senators will commit NO violence in this chamber while I still draw breath! I care not whether it be against the Antichrist himself! If there is a living being in this chamber that needs to be removed in some manner, the Senate Guards will deal with him personally, under the specific command of the Basileus or myself. If the Guards must resort to violence to remove this person, then so be it, but it will not be done by the Senators!"

*The Protoasecretes stands very quickly and suddenly; all vestiges of his former frailty vanishing instantly.*

"And if any of you 'politicians' think you can overwhelm me due to my age, then you are in for a most unpleasant surprise. In the Magnaura I am the law. You will respect the peace or you will be removed from this chamber! If you want to kill each other, go to the Hippodrome! This is Byzantium, not Rome, AND THERE WILL BE ORDER IN THIS SENATE!"

*The Protoasecrets glares around the room once again, before slowly sitting down. On his descent, his cane wobbles heavily and it appears the old man is going to fall over and break his hip. However, he manages to secure his seat once again, and starts mumbling to some invisible figure about the disrespect of youngsters and the decline in the quality of Creten figs.*

[Andres]

Savvas stands up, clearly annoyed because of the interruption right after he proposed his Edict.

Well, now that we have heard the message of our brave friend Vissarionas ek Lesvou, whose heroic deeds like, eh, ehm, writing insulting letters, will be remembered for generations, we can perhaps focus on more trivial matters, like the conquest of Rome?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I wonder.. will the Protoasecretes throw the Basileus out of the Magnaura if the Basileus commits a personal attack against some Senator?
Since Protoasecretes said that He is the law in here then I wonder - who is Basileus then?

Theo smiles..

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas glances coolly at the Senator. Nodding his head at the subtle comment he gives a rueful smile.

[Smowz]

My friend Savvas perhaps you are correct - a speedy attack at the bishop of Rome may be the best way to completely devastate that meddling entity once and for all.

Make no mistake the agents of Catholicism have committed gross acts of treachery against Orthodoxy. There were those among us that believed after the great Schism that we would one day unite together under Christianity.

But Rome watched whilst we burned at the hands of the Turks and shockingly allowed a Moorish Jihad to cross their lands to eventually besiege Consinantinople itself. Add to this the blatent open missionary work being done in Belgrade and Durrazzo, along with the German presence in the Levant perhaps it is indeed time that Rome realised who the authority on Christianity is in this world.

I wish to second Edict 6.4 , so that it can be put to vote and test the loyalty and piety of the people of this Orthodox Christian realm.

[Ituralde]

Conquering Rome now would be like putting a stick in a bloody hornets nest! All the Catholics would be offended and want to avenge him. And as long as there are Catholics they will have some Pope or another, severing this snake's head will only have them sprout another one. We have legitimate claims regarding Venice and the rest of the Italian peninsula. Let's wait with the final strike until we are truly prepared.

[Andres]

Conquering Rome now would be like putting a stick in a bloody hornets nest! All the Catholics would be offended and want to avenge him. And as long as there are Catholics they will have some Pope or another, severing this snake's head will only have them sprout another one. We have legitimate claims regarding Venice and the rest of the Italian peninsula. Let's wait with the final strike until we are truly prepared.

Aren't our claims on Rome justified then? We are the only civilisation worhty of the name civilisation left in this world.

The Eternal City is ours! We have tolerated this abomination of Catholics ruling our city long enough now. We are finally powerful enough to claim what is ours: Rome and the entire peninsula surrounding it.

Dear Pavlos, gentlemen, with those Fatimid and Seljuk dogs out of our way, we are ready to write history. Let the world know that Manzikert was just a regretful coincidence. Let the world once again tremble for the might of the Roman Empire!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Klimis Dokeianos:

Rome yearns to be taken. I believe that we are ready to do so this term rather than later on down the line. It it thus in this spirit that I second Edict 6.4.

[TinCow]

*The Protoasecretes pounds his staff on the floor once again, though with less enthusiasm that he displayed a short while before.*

The time for proposing legislation has passed. Voting will now commence and remain open for 48 hours, until 23:00 GMT on Wednesday, October 22nd.

[Ignoramus]

The Basileus walks into the Magnaura a grave expression on his face.

Senators, I have a grave announcement to make. Our Caesar, Methodios Tagaris, has blatantly violated my will, and has rebelled against me and my authority.

I therefore command all houses to declare war upon the rebel Caesar and bring him to account. Remember your oaths of loyalty at my coronation when you consider your position.

I hereby call upon all senators and nobles of the empire to declare their hand - now. I will have no neutrality. You either will declare against the Caesar, or against me.

The Basileus marches out of the Magnaura, and indicates to the Protoasecretes that the Chancellor will publicly receive the pledges from the nobles.

[Ituralde]

I thank you Senators for the support you have shown to me in the recent Election. I will fulfill the position of Megas Logothetes to the utmost of my ability.

That being said I highly condemn the actions taken by Caesar Methodios Tagaris. He acted in direct violation of an Imperial prerogative! Such disobedience will not be tolerated. I declare war on Methodios Tagaris!

But! I will not condone the spreading of Roman blood under my rule. I ask the Caesar and Basileus to come together and agree on a Peace Treaty, determining the punishment for the Caesar, before it comes to bloodshed.

[Andres]

I thank you Senators for the support you have shown to me in the recent Election. I will fulfill the position of Megas Logothetes to the utmost of my ability.

That being said I highly condemn the actions taken by Caesar Methodios Tagaris. He acted in direct violation of an Imperial prerogative! Such disobedience will not be tolerated. I declare war on Methodios Tagaris!

But! I will not condone the spreading of Roman blood under my rule. I ask the Caesar and Basileus to come together and agree on a Peace Treaty, determining the punishment for the Caesar, before it comes to bloodshed.

Savvas raises an eyebrow.

First you declare war and then you demand a peace treaty?

I thought you were elected as Megas, not our resident stand-up comedian specialised in absurd humor...

Savvas sighs.

Indeed, Methodios Tagaris should be punished for his disobedience.

Banning him from the territory of the Empire, disowning and disinheriting him and stripping him from all his titles and retinue, seem like better solutions then killing thousands of Roman taxpayers...

I understand the rage of our Basileus, but I humbly request that we solve this unpleasant matter in a more civilised way.

Of course, if it would come to a de facto civil war, it is pretty obvious on which side you will find me.

[OverKnight]

Tiverios stands.

I support the Megas Logothetes in his request for negotiations. I suspect the Basileus decreed the marriage without consulting the Father, which is his right even if brusquely done. However both parties should take the oppurtunity to talk that they ignored before.

These are modern times, we should no longer should go to war over a woman, no matter how. . .beautiful. . she may be.

I understand there are deeper currents to this matter, but. . .this is madness.

Tiverios trails off unsure what else to say.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Theo starts to laugh...

Stupid people! I say this to all of you.. STUPID people! Start a war because of a woman who is .. well.. what she is! I would slap Pavlos against his face and clear his mind but Protoasecretes wouldn't like it probably.

Theo smiles..

I agree with Tiverios, let those two roosters talk to each other and solve it with out a bloodshed! And if they can't solve it then.. it's simple.. They both are STUPID! Have I said 'stupid' before already?

Theo looks his scribe who smiles and nods..

Bah! I'll say it again.. Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid... This is what you get when a stupid man is on the throne! I almost wish that there would be those Praetorian Guards from the Roman times present today. They knew what to do with STUPID people!

Theo sits back.. and burst into laugh again..

OOC: This was all IC! Just thought that I mention this! :beam:

[Andres]

Savvas looks at Theo.

Dear Senator, I believe that calling the man we all swore allegiance to stupid, is,... well, stupid.

Savvas sighs and sips from his goblet of wine.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Theo smiles..

Perhaps you did but I didn't. And why? Because I knew he will do some stupid things soon. And was I right or what?

[Andres]

Theo smiles..

Perhaps you did but I didn't. And why? Because I knew he will do some stupid things soon. And was I right or what?

So, you think the Basileus should simply ignore the blatant disobedience of Caesar Methodios Tagaris and act as if nothing happened?

You don't agree that Methodios should be punished?

[Ituralde]

Pavlos turns to look severly at Savvas ek Militou.

Do I look as if I'm bloody joking, Senator?

I mean exactly what I said! The right response to the act of treason done by the Caesar is to declare him an outlaw. To do this we must declare war on him. This does not mean that I will lead legions of men into devastating battle, yet. The decision is now up to the Caesar. Either he is willing to face his just punishment or we will have to make sure that he does. You might prefer to talk the day away, I prefer action.

Pavlos then looks at Theo Petzeas

And concerning you, I have just about had enough of your petty insults. If you truly believe that this matter is over what exactly Princess Hypatia is, then there is little help for you.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Well.. Methodios IS the father of Hypatia. So he should have the right to marry her to whom ever he wants. Or with whom Hypatia wants.

So I don't think Methodios should be punished. Basileus' shouldn't be able to stick their heads into someone else family life!

[Ituralde]

Senator Petzas, it may have escaped your attention but as heir to the Imperial throne Methodios Tagaris is part of the Imperial family, which is headed by the Basileus, Ioannis Komnenos. The Basileus is enacting his prerogative by sticking his hands into his bloody own family life!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

No it is not his family. Is Ioannis Methodios' father? Or brother? or Son? They are not even related to each other! So, the Basileus should not stick his head into Methodios' personal life!

[ULC]

Nikolaos enters, calmly sits down, and takes a sip from a mug, Demetrios ever present at his side with his smug Cheshire grin. "Now, lets start business. Who can promise me that after my House is gone, that I have something to look forward to. Name something concrete please, because we all know that is exactly what I have now, and that is exactly what is disappearing out from underneath me."

[Ituralde]

I guess you should check with your secretaries regarding an old Roman tradition called adoption.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

And you should check the Royal Family Tree much closer! It was not Ioannis who accepted Methodios in to the Royal family. It was late Mavrozomis. And it was not adoption but patronage. After he died there were no ties anymore between Methodios and Ioannis! Also.. I don't remember anyone yelling and screaming and declaring civil wars when Ioannis Kalameteros' daughter married!

[Ituralde]

Mavrozomis was adopted by Ioannis Komnenos, making him part of the Royal Family. That means that his sons, adopted or not should be considered part of the Royal Family. The title of Caesar worn by Methodios Tagaris is testimony to this.

Furthermore closer reading of the records will reveal to you that it was in fact Methodios Tagaris that declared war on the Basileus through his act of treason, every loyal subject of the Basileus should respond with a declaration of their own to this blatant attack.

[Dafuge]

I see I have been unwillingly dragged into this war. I don't like it, but I will stand for my Lord. Just to let you know.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

It was not a declaration of war. I don't remember him slamming the doors and yelling 'I declare civil war!'
I think it was Ioannis who did that. The way he interpreted the marriage of Hypatia is his business. What can I say. Ioannis is fool and is destroying everything that his father helped to build! He is not fit to wear the name 'Komnenos'!

[Dafuge]

Senators, I bring grave news, the German crusaders, who were revolted out of Jerusulam have seemingly not being killed off but fled with minor casualties. They are stationed outside Acre whilst a small force has broken off and is heading up the mountains.

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas sighs and shakes his head at the most recent exchange between Senator Petzas and Lord Pavlos.

"Senator Petzas, your argument has more holes in it than cheese from Bern. I await word from the Senators and House lords on their stance in this matter. The Basileus has requested your allegiance, what say you my Lords of Byzantium?"

[ULC]

Nikolaos sighs. "Such tempting offers really. One wonders why I should be loyal to either side in this conflict."

[Ituralde]

Pavlos shakes his head and glares at Nikolaos.

Do you want me to say bloody please? Your lord asks your assistance if that isn't enough for you than I can't help you.

[Andres]

Efthymios ek Herakliou, if you feel that the Basileus is right and your Lord wrong in this matter, then I suggest you break your oath to the Caesar. Nobody will hold it against us. We don't expect you to remain loyal to a traitor.

Savvas looks at Nikolaos.

Senator, are you trying to say that you are loyal to the one who makes you the best offer?

I am deeply disappointed, dear colleague. We are Senators of the Roman Empire, not mercenaries!

Savvas addresses Pavlos.

It is true that I'm more talkative, but I don't want to talk the day away. If action is required, then I'll be where the action is, let there be no doubt about that.

I was just trying to say that a more, let us say careful and diplomatic approach, is needed in this sensitive matter.

Savvas stares at Senator Petzas.

You are joking, right?

Savvas keeps staring, while sipping on his goblet of wine.

[ULC]

Pavlos shakes his head and glares at Nikolaos.

Do you want me to say bloody please? Your lord asks your assistance if that isn't enough for you than I can't help you.

"Maybe you don't realize the extremely delicate position I am in? If I go with the Basileus, my rank, title, trust bestowed in me, and my House evaporate faster then water in the desert. if I side with Methodios, I keep my rank, title, trust, and my House, but I gain the enmity of you, the Basileus and everyone else as well. So far, I have heard nothing that can assure me I simply won't be absorbed into another House, like House Asteri or the Order, by being loyal, nor anything about how my House will continue on afterward."

Nikolaos turns to Savvas.

"Dear Savvas, I did serve in the Varangian Guard. I am sure you know the nature of such men?"

[Andres]

"Maybe you don't realize the extremely delicate position I am in? If I go with the Basileus, my rank, title, trust bestowed in me, and my House evaporate faster then water in the desert. if I side with Methodios, I keep my rank, title, trust, and my House, but I gain the enmity of you, the Basileus and everyone else as well. So far, I have heard nothing that can assure me I simply won't be absorbed into another House, like House Asteri or the Order, by being loyal, nor anything about how my House will continue on afterward."

That's what you get when you're not too picky when it comes to vassals. Maybe you should hold higher standards before accepting an oath in the future?

Don't escape your own responsability, dear Lord. Or you help cleaning up this mess and worry about your future later, or you face some very nasty consequences.



Nikolaos turns to Savvas.

"Dear Savvas, I did serve in the Varangian Guard. I am sure you know the nature of such men?"

Be that as it may, the past is the past. Today, you are a Senator in this body. Act like one.