View Full Version : The Midgard Saga II [Concluded]
Tratorix
08-12-2008, 22:02
People who need to be lynched:
Motep: His role pm is too similar to mine. Don't think it's a coincedence.
GH: Been protecting Motep with some truly ridiculous logic.
This went crazy over a couple of hours. :dizzy:
Privateerkev
08-12-2008, 22:07
People who need to be lynched:
Motep: His role pm is too similar to mine. Don't think it's a coincedence.
GH: Been protecting Motep with some truly ridiculous logic.
Discovery1: Says he's Motep's champion, but hasn't produced a role pm.
I am convinced both Tratorix and Motep are who they say they are.
Thor needs to protect Motep.
For the record, it looks to me like the reason Motep's reveal had the font info in it is because he accidentally erased the closing part of the FONT command for that line when he was removing the name of his Champion, which apparently he did hastily via an edit.
I really do think that both Motep and Traitorix are probably legit, though it's impossible to be certain. We need to have a good hard look at all of this and do it carefully before we make too many more errors.
Warmaster Horus
08-12-2008, 22:14
If he quoted from his role PM, then the font shouldn't have been there. If he'd tried to add it, however, in an attempt to fake the PM, then it would be there.
Tratorix
08-12-2008, 22:15
I am convinced both Tratorix and Motep are who they say they are.
Thor needs to protect Motep.
I'll believe Motep when His champion posts his pm.
Kagemusha
08-12-2008, 22:16
In that case, all we need to do is that there will be no more challenges, let Motep and GH have a Holmgang. In order for us to be sure, Motep should use his champion to defend himself and then Thor should protect him for the rest of the game if that actually happens.
Warmaster Horus
08-12-2008, 22:17
I think it's too late for that Kage, since GH challenged FH.
That said, it doesn't mean we can't have Disco vs Motep.
As I have said, the computer automatically copies the font when I copy from right clicking. It is frustrating when I copy from word, as I get alot of invalid font types for the org, and they take as long to delete as to write.
Kagemusha
08-12-2008, 22:19
I think it's too late for that Kage, since GH challenged FH.
That said, it doesn't mean we can't have Disco vs Motep.
I know, but Motep also challenged GH.So its 50% chance that the fight will happen.So no more challenges please.
GeneralHankerchief
08-12-2008, 22:21
I know, but Motep also challenged GH.So its 50% chance that the fight will happen.So no more challenges please.
I'm fine with this.
All I want to do is be in a Holmgang anyway.
Plus, Motep gets to level up on me. Keep him alive, dudes.
Kagemusha
08-12-2008, 22:25
I'm fine with this.
All I want to do is be in a Holmgang anyway.
Plus, Motep gets to level up on me. Keep him alive, dudes.
Wouldnt it be that his Champion gets a level up? Unless one does not show up, il guess we just have to hang poor Motep high on Odin´s tree.:smash:
Seamus Fermanagh
08-12-2008, 22:36
I think BOTH tratorix and motep are perpetrating false reveals.
Why?
The reveals don't "ring true."
1. Neither addresses the runes issue well -- and they are at the top of all of our PMS.
2. I doubt Sigurd completely redesigned and renumerated his Holmgang system for this game. In Midgard-I, the only players with a holmgang score of "7" were Gods and Jotun, with Odin and the lead Jotun having holmgang scores of "8." Kings had "6's," Jarls had "5's," Champions (each human King and Jarl had one) had "4's", Veterans had "3's," and the few generic thrall/townies had "2's."
My holmgang value is in line with the old matrix. Both tratorix and motep have claimed a score of "7."
#2b EDIT: I also note that my holmgang score on the PM is reported as:
Holmgang ability: #
The "reveals" use a different format than this. Discrepency?
3. How many Varangian guards are there in the leadership of the Norse world? Does everybody save the thralls have this on their sheet....I think not.
How many Norse lands are represented here? We've been told in the OP to look for the Norwegians and Danesand the hired swords from Jomsburg (Pomerania). Later Write-ups by Siggy have mentioned Swea (Sweden) and Jorvik (York). Do we posit that many kings, jarls and champions?
Compare these reveals CAREFULLY to your own, and go back and check Version #1.
Please remember post 459 --491 oops --(Kagemusha) -- its a nice post with both "reveals" laid out.
General Q:
How many Norse lands are represented here? We've been told in the OP to look for the Norwegians and Danesand the hired swords from Jomsburg (Pomerania). Later Write-ups by Siggy have mentioned Swea (Sweden) and Jorvik (York). Do we posit that many kings, jarls and champions?
GeneralHankerchief
08-12-2008, 22:39
1. Neither addresses the runes issue well -- and they are at the top of all of our PMS.
Not like I'm going to be taken seriously or anything, but this isn't the case.
Thats just it, I didnt get any runes! I do not know why, maybe Sigurd's oversight, But I did not get one.
GeneralHankerchief
08-12-2008, 22:43
Actually, there's a couple of different errors. First of all, the Holmgang matrices Seamus mentions don't match up with their Midgard I values. I think Seamus bears watching. Second of all, the runes thing.
I'd Holmgang him, but I already wasted my challenge.
FactionHeir
08-12-2008, 22:46
Why am I a waste if you think I'm guilty :tongue2:
Kagemusha
08-12-2008, 22:46
No one should Holmgang anyone at this point.Dont heed the words of the Jotun called GH.Let us see if Motep is what he says he is. It is simple when we can see if he has a champion or not. In best case we get one dead Jotun killed by another, which we can then lynch afterwards.:smash:
Tratorix
08-12-2008, 22:50
After further review, I believe Motep. Thor should protect one or both of them if he is listening. GH still seems a bit scummy to me , but his mistrust of me makes a bit more sense.
My pm was in the same font as Motep's but since I just copy and pasted it, the font didn't carry over. The verdana thing is something Motep couldn't have copied from the pm I posted, so I believe him.
I don't know why he wouldn't have any runes though, when mine did.
GeneralHankerchief
08-12-2008, 22:50
No one should Holmgang anyone at this point.Dont heed the words of the Jotun called GH.Let us see if Motep is what he says he is. It is simple when we can see if he has a champion or not. In best case we get one dead Jotun killed by another, which we can then lynch afterwards.:smash:
Dude, if it's me and Motep, in a matter of time I'll be laughing at you all from Valhalla with my busty Valkyrie handmadens waiting on me hand and foot. Maybe while I'm there I'll get Odin to use his godly powers (since we lynched him already, yay us! :cheerleader:) to send a missive from beyond a grave to you all reminding you to listen to me.
Dude, if it's me and Motep, in a matter of time I'll be laughing at you all from Valhalla with my busty Valkyrie handmadens waiting on me hand and foot. Maybe while I'm there I'll get Odin to use his godly powers (since we lynched him already, yay us! :cheerleader:) to send a missive from beyond a grave to you all reminding you to listen to me.
:grin2:
Such spirit!
Kagemusha
08-12-2008, 22:54
BLAAH,BLAAHH,BLAH,BLAAH,BLAH.:painting:
Soon we shall see hopefully.:2thumbsup:
Soon we shall see hopefully.:2thumbsup:
Nice quoting. Worth a decent laugh
Craterus
08-12-2008, 23:13
and they are at the top of all of our PMS
I don't have PMS. :sad:
I don't like the way Kage is posting either. (Partly because I hate that smiley he keeps using, but mostly because he keeps calling people Jotun based on some very weak cases and he's also very eager to put someone who may well be a king into a Holmgang).
Privateerkev
08-12-2008, 23:18
I don't have PMS. :sad:
:laugh4:
Sorry but after the whirlwind we had a couple hours ago, I really needed that... :beam:
FactionHeir
08-12-2008, 23:19
I was tempted to post that too earlier but decided against it.
GeneralHankerchief
08-12-2008, 23:20
Kage always acts like this. I think he's innocent.
Well, what we really should do now is have the other kings and jarls tell us whether the ones who already revealed are genuine... :laugh4:
I'm unsure about GH, disco and Motep being the Jotun, doing such a stunt so early would be quite dangerous for them, we'll see about that either way though. And then there is that other question.
TinCow, you say that PK is innocent based on what he told you, now that is very nice of you but who tells us that this helpful information is not just to protect your jotun buddy?
FactionHeir
08-12-2008, 23:40
I'm wondering if the best option would be to just have everyone reveal to say TB who we know is innocent (or maybe CA or Tratorix) privately. Those who don't reveal or whose reveals seem to fall short (i.e. we only had a lord PM posted so far, no other PMs, and people can hardly claim someone to be their champion if that one doesn't as well etc) we know are Jotun.
[quote=Husar;1988574]Well, what we really should do now is have the other kings and jarls tell us whether the ones who already revealed are genuine... :laugh4:
[quote]
A very bad Idea, enough lords have already been revealed
And I urge no one to reveal anything! You just dont know who is Jotun, and who is not.
A very bad Idea, enough lords have already been revealed
And I urge no one to reveal anything! You just dont know who is Jotun, and who is not.
Oh man, you really got me there. :sweatdrop:
Jesus 18 pages, I can't read all of that...
based on Motep's reveal I'll vote:Motep
Looked like a bad copy of Tratorix's especially the funny alphabet (I dunno what it is) used for the name of the champion, in my PM the names are all in English letters.
And Seamus I can't agree with you not liking them because of the Holmgang score, my PM said that my "role is similar to War Veteran" yet I have a Holmgang score of 5 rather than the 3 you say I should have.
Tratorix
08-12-2008, 23:46
Jesus 18 pages, I can't read all of that...
based on Motep's reveal I'll vote:Motep
Looked like a bad copy of Tratorix's especially the funny alphabet (I dunno what it is) used for the name of the champion, in my PM the names are all in English letters.
And Seamus I can't agree with you not liking them because of the Holmgang score, my PM said that my "role is similar to War Veteran" yet I have a Holmgang score of 5 rather than the 3 you say I should have.
You're a few hours late.
I thought I might be...guess I'll have to read through those pages.
TinCow, you say that PK is innocent based on what he told you, now that is very nice of you but who tells us that this helpful information is not just to protect your jotun buddy?
I believe the answer in this case is 'you' in the generic sense of the reader. You have to make up your own mind on what to believe based on the evidence presented. Trusting anyone blindly in Mafia is also known as losing.
FactionHeir
08-12-2008, 23:51
So anyone going to comment on my idea?
pevergreen
08-12-2008, 23:58
1. Neither addresses the runes issue well -- and they are at the top of all of our PMS.
I disagree, I am a generic Townie, and I have no runes whatsoever.
I have asked the host, and it is ok for me to ask everyone here to claim roles to me:
Do you have a problem with me asking pro towns to pm me who they are? I dont want to become that without your approval, as i know it can be annoying to the hosts.
Your choice if I ask or not.
i am also adding you on msn :tongue: You should be able to figure out my email address.
I haven't forbidden this.
from the rules:
It is not allowed to reveal your role if you are dead, you can however reveal your role at any time whilst being alive (do so at your own risk).
I have however stated that you can't reveal when dead. Also make a note of the parenthesis. :mellow:
I have only access to MSN at home ... well if you disregard the HTML version which I don't like.
The desktop is probably on back home. I will have a looksie when I get home later tonight.
Sigurd
What happened to me last night.
Night 2
You find an amulet depicting a hammer on your bedroll.
You put it on and feel somehow stronger. It is as if you have gained immortality.
Your Holmgang ability has been temporarily increased to X for this coming round.
My Role PM:
HUMAN
Peder "the new"
Greetings player, you have pulled the role of townie out of my hat and you will be hunting Jotun in this game. During the day phase you will participate by voting for a candidate you believe might be Jotun. Use the form described in the opening post in the game thread. During the night phase you can challenge players to a duel. This is also described in the opening post.
Duel score: X
I have deleted one line from my pm, thats all.
I ask people to reveal to me, as I know that a champion was protected by Thor last night, and I would like to put Thor in contact with the Champion and his Lord.
So anyone going to comment on my idea?
Are we allowed to reveal to dead people via PM? I would have thought that would be against the rules.
edit:scratch that, I support FH's idea
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 00:00
So anyone going to comment on my idea?
I'd want it confirmed by Sigurd about how we could interact with the dead first. But a "townie clearinghouse" could be useful. Beware that in Midgard 1 it was attempted and Stig and Alexander simply sent Seamus fake PM's based on templates Sigurd provided.
pevergreen
08-13-2008, 00:01
There is no explicit rule against it, but I asked Sigurd first how he wanted to handle it.
I dont think revealing to dead people that are without a doubt confirmed innocent is in the spirit of the game though.
I think only alive people, I have revealed, and urge others to do so in private to someone they know is innocent.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 00:03
I ask people to reveal to me, as I know that a champion was protected by Thor last night, and I would like to put Thor in contact with the Champion and his Lord.
I see absolutely no reason why we should all send our role PM's to you.
All you have proven is that Thor protected you. Thor can protect anyone.
I'm sorry but your reveal has proven nothing yet in my opinion.
CountArach
08-13-2008, 00:05
Just so people are aware, I'm still around, I just had a horrible headache yesterday. I'll put some of my analysis up later.
Round 2 completion.
The law speaker was all but run down by the representatives from the Kingdoms. “We need more time please. We can’t decide who should be the one paying for the life of Caius”. The law speaker looked at them. Searching their faces he made up his mind. “We need to conclude this today before the sun sets. Give me your current tally”. The man called Craterus reluctantly gave the law speaker the list of candidates. The law speaker took a quick look at it and said: “This is the man most of you voted for?” The men nodded a little uncertain. “Right, let us proceed. Bring this man to the Thing.
The retinues of the kingdoms were waiting at the Thing centre with a man in chains.
The law speaker walked right up to him and had a good look at his eyes. “Do you have anything to say?”
The man stood straight and claimed: “I am the Lord of York, you should not kill me”.
The men in the gathering all laughed and one said: “And I am the pope in Rome.” A roar of laughter erupted and it took a while before someone was able to be heard over the laughter. The law speaker shouted: “WE NEED A VOLUNTEER!!”
Several hands and shouts of “Here” were heard. The law speaker picked the closest one.
“You, come here. You know the drill?” The man nodded and went to Tratorix and whispered:”Go well, let thy blood atone for sins committed here at the Thing. Let Odin receive you to his table”. The man drew his dagger and sliced open Tratorix’ throat. Tratorix dropped to his knees and felt the darkness enveloping him. He slumped to the ground, burying his face in the mud. Soon the sounds of cheering men became silence .
A jolt went through him and he was no longer chained. Long and sweet smelling hair was tickling his face. What was this? Could it be? “Greetings your grace, thy table awaits yonder hills. Let’s make haste”. Tratorix grabbed the woman’s waist and felt all tingly inside.
----------------------------------------------------
You may commence the challenges for next round's Holmgang.
Remember the six first challenges will be the candidates for the actual duel.
Tally:
Tratorix: 6 (Disco, Gaius, GH, Kukrikhaan, Seamus, w&f)
Crazed Rabbit 4: (FH, TinCow, Tratorix, Warmaster H)
Privateerkev: 3 (Ichigo, Motep, shlin28)
Motep : 2 (Andres, PK)
scottishranger : 2 (Eliit, Rythmic)
Gaius S C : 1 (Husar)
GH : 1 (Kage)
Disco : 1 (Omanes)
Kukrikhan : 1 (pever)
TinCow : 1 (El D)
Kagemusha : 1 (Prole)
Abstained : 2 (Craterus, glyphz)
Did not vote : 7 (CR, Fenring, LG, Quintus, Sarathos, scottishr, TevashSzat)
********************************
Killed: (2)
Twilightblade (R1)
Caius (R2)
Killed by Holmgang: (1)
makaikhaan (R1)
Lynched: (2)
CountArach (R1)
Tratorix (R2)
Living: (31)
Andres
Craterus
Crazed Rabbit
discovery1
El Diablo
Eliit Tuhkur
FactionHeir
Fenring
Gaius Scribonius Curio
GeneralHankerchief
glyphz
Husar
Ichigo
Kagemusha
Kukrikhan
LittleGrizzly
Motep
Omanes Alexandrapolites
pevergreen
Privateerkev
Proletariat
Quintus.J.Cicero
Rythmic
Sarathos
scottishranger
Seamus Fermanagh
shlin28
TevashSzat
TinCow
Warmaster Horus
woad&fangs
Pms people. Deadline: Wednesday 13th August at 2000 GMT
Challenges so far
1. GeneralHankerchief vs. FactionHeir
2. Motep vs. GeneralHankerchief
A jolt went through him and he was no longer chained. Long and sweet smelling hair was tickling his face. What was this? Could it be? “Greetings your grace, thy table awaits yonder hills. Let’s make haste”. Tratorix grabbed the woman’s waist and felt all tingly inside.
A jolt went through him and he was no longer chained. Long and sweet smelling hair was tickling his face. What was this? Could it be? “Greetings your grace, thy table awaits yonder hills. Let’s make haste”. Tratorix grabbed the woman’s waist and felt all tingly inside.
[FONT=Verdana]
Is it safe to assume now that Tratorix was not a Jotun, w/c would mean his RolePm was genuine? No clue what 'felt all tingly inside' could mean? :huh2: Anyone?
edit: nevermind, he probably just reacted to her being cold
There were less people who voted, but no doubt this round was a lot more intense. Too bad there's no overtime.
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 01:22
Challenges so far
1. GeneralHankerchief vs. FactionHeir
2. Motep vs. GeneralHankerchief
And let's keep it that way.
So, uh why does everyone want you dead GH?
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 01:25
That is a very good question, Ichigo. Apparently because disagreement over who is supposedly guilty is now enough to warrant a ridiculously stupid bandwagon. I'll take it in stride though, as long as I meet my death via Holmgang.
Sarathos
08-13-2008, 01:34
So what are and how do you use the runes? I think I might have one with my pm and what it is/does is a complete mystery.
Warmaster Horus
08-13-2008, 01:35
I actually thought it was a disagreement over fake PMs, with you implying that Motep was legit, and Tratorix not.
Edit: and especially giving a ridiculous explanation for Motep's innocence. Ridiculous in the eyes of many, I mean.
That is a very good question, Ichigo. Apparently because disagreement over who is supposedly guilty is now enough to warrant a ridiculously stupid bandwagon. I'll take it in stride though, as long as I meet my death via Holmgang.
Ridiculous... :furious3:
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 01:46
Obviously in hindsight I was wrong about Tratorix but that just reinforces my point regarding Motep's innocence.
Warmaster Horus
08-13-2008, 01:51
How? Tratorix appears innocent, and during that discussion it seemed there was one innocent, the other not.
The only argument that stands for me about Motep is the Verdana one. And even so, I doubt it a bit.
Anyway, see you in about 10 hours, gents. It's 3 in the morning here...
Tratorix
08-13-2008, 01:54
Obviously in hindsight I was wrong about Tratorix but that just reinforces my point regarding Motep's innocence.
How?
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 01:55
Because now one of my pathetic defenses for Motep is replaced by a stronger one - the PMs are identical because Sigurd sent them both.
Tratorix
08-13-2008, 02:00
Because now one of my pathetic defenses for Motep is replaced by a stronger one - the PMs are identical because Sigurd sent them both.
Unless he just, you know, copied mine.
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 02:06
So the Verdana thing is just going to be ignored then? Excellent.
Or possibly since you have the same role, you'll have basically the same role PM. :idea:
Craterus
08-13-2008, 02:12
I think they're both Lords and I'd hope Motep gets some protection this night phase.
Tratorix
08-13-2008, 02:17
So the Verdana thing is just going to be ignored then? Excellent.
Maybe he is telling the truth. Maybe i'm just a bit incensed that very few people seem to believe my pm is genuine while so many seem to be willing to believe Motep because of a fragment of text related to the font of the message. I'm not 100% sure that he's guilty, but too many things don't add up for me.
So, expect me keep bugging everyone about this until the game is over. :beam:
Maybe he is telling the truth. Maybe i'm just a bit incensed that very few people seem to believe my pm is genuine while so many seem to be willing to believe Motep because of a fragment of text related to the font of the message. I'm not 100% sure that he's guilty, but too many things don't add up for me.
So, expect me keep bugging everyone about this until the game is over. :beam:
I think the lynch write-up pretty much proves you are who you say you are. I don't think there will be anyone who denies that now.
Maybe he is telling the truth. Maybe i'm just a bit incensed that very few people seem to believe my pm is genuine while so many seem to be willing to believe Motep because of a fragment of text related to the font of the message. I'm not 100% sure that he's guilty, but too many things don't add up for me.
So, expect me keep bugging everyone about this until the game is over. :beam:
:brood:
On a more serious note, I never said you were guilty, and why would I copy your pm when I have a perfectly good one in my pm box, one that is in actuality legit. Besides, you are living it up in the afterlife. getting all tingly, it seems.
One more thing, Im too pretty to die. :cheesy:
Crazed Rabbit
08-13-2008, 02:30
*A steady gaze at Factionheir, third bandwagoning me*
How quick everyone was to believe two people who claimed to be kings of men. No discerning skepticism, just, it seems, blind acceptance.
There is evil in our midst and we must tear it out. It seems foolish that we lynch the one who claimed to be a lord second, and said mainly the same as the first, if we were to lynch one.
We should take a closer look at those who were urging us to go after motep and tratorix, as they seem to be very wrong.
CR
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 02:34
To everyone who is still doubting Tratorix, keep this in mind:
From TB's death writeup:
The men of Jorvik were in full panoply when they found one of their warriors with an eternal smile frozen on his face, lying on the ground.
Now, look at Tratorix's role PM:
Eirik Bloodaxe, King of Jorvik (York).
You are the ruler of Jorvik, a carved out kingdom north in England. You are Norwegian by birth and a former Varangian guard. Trained and schooled in the skills of war makes you a formidable foe in Holmgang.
You have been summoned to this ting by the rulers of the Norse world to settle a dispute between Harald Bluetooth of Denmark and Haakon Jarl of Norway. You are here to give evidence to the dishonorable union of interests between Denmark and Jomsborg. But you still have a strong feeling about who should rule Norway. It should have been you and not that brat Haakon.
Your survival is important. The Jotun is out to get you and your retinue. The Jotun will win if they kill you and the other Lords.
You have a champion in your retinue. This is Ragnar the Anglo-Saxon, one of your most trusted men.
If you are challenged to a Holmgang he can take your place. If the Holmgang you have been challenged to is the one which will be fought I will send you a pm with the question of you wanting a champion in your place. Remember, the Jotun will be looking for you and will discover that someone took your place.
Your champion is: Twilightblade
Holmgang ability: = 7
Now, look at TB's death writeup:
Suddenly he felt the ground jolting below him and he opened his eyes. He was no longer sleeping on the ground. The ground rushed below him and his face was full of sweet smelling golden hair. He looked up and into the back of a young and apparently beautiful woman. “Ah there you are handsome.” She turned and he looked right into a pair of the most beautiful blue eyes he had ever seen. “I am taking you home, handsome. Please hold me, I am rather cold”. Twilightblade grabbed the lithe body in front of him and wished this ride would never end.
TB was from Jorvik and went to Valhalla. He was a warrior. Unless Tratorix carefully researched the writeups, and used TB's death to create an alibi, he is telling the truth. Keep in mind that if Tratorix is making this up, the real Jorvik people will call him out. Not to mention TB.
To me, this is settled. I am convinced Tratorix is who he says he is.
*edit*
Also, look at Tratorix's death writeup:
A jolt went through him and he was no longer chained. Long and sweet smelling hair was tickling his face. What was this? Could it be? “Greetings your grace, thy table awaits yonder hills. Let’s make haste”. Tratorix grabbed the woman’s waist and felt all tingly inside.
He went to Valhalla as well.
We should take a closer look at those who were urging us to go after motep and tratorix, as they seem to be very wrong.
Hear, hear.
Tratorix
08-13-2008, 02:40
:brood:
On a more serious note, I never said you were guilty, and why would I copy your pm when I have a perfectly good one in my pm box, one that is in actuality legit. Besides, you are living it up in the afterlife. getting all tingly, it seems.
One more thing, Im too pretty to die. :cheesy:
Are you sure you're not Jotun? Cause, it would make me feel a whole lot better about getting lynched if I took a Jotun down with me instead of a fellow lord. But, your probably innocent, not because of any piece of evidence, but because the town seems to be just stumbling from one run of bad luck to another this game.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 02:43
We should take a closer look at those who were urging us to go after motep and tratorix, as they seem to be very wrong.
I would be happy to answer any questions anyone has on this matter. I was the first to put the spotlight on those two. At the time, it seemed like the right thing to do. It obviously wasn't but hindsight is 20/20.
Are you sure you're not Jotun? Cause, it would make me feel a whole lot better about getting lynched if I took a Jotun down with me instead of a fellow lord. But, your probably innocent, not because of any piece of evidence, but because the town seems to be just stumbling from one run of bad luck to another this game.
I am pretty sure that I am not Jotun, not that you would take my word for it. And yes...very bad luck. Or is it luck?
By the gods, I leave for a few hours, and come back to a right mess! No doubt there'll
be some very happy Jotun sitting back in the darkness having a good old giggle.
I personally will take Motep's claim with a pinch of salt. No Norse at the top? Unlikely, but
possible. Also his score seems a little high. Also possible though, as Sigurd could have (and
probably did) adjusted the system he used last time.
Gaius Scribonius Curio
08-13-2008, 03:20
Gah!!!
I hate my time-zone...
I have to say that I believe Tratorix's reveal, particularly due to the evidence from the write-up above. Motep I am not so sure of... further reading on my part is required.
@ Husar: You suspect due to the fact I'm analysing stuff, give me an example of a mafia game I've played where I haven't acted like this... Or if you want to prove yourself the bigger man I'll meet you on the battlefield (and rip your heart from your unfortunate body...).
Seriously no more challenges for today would be a good idea. I'd echo the calls for Thor to protect Motep (although I'm not sure he's is genuine), and his supposed champion.
Seamus Fermanagh
08-13-2008, 03:36
Well, the write-up makes it clear that Tratorix was no Jotun. If he was faking his PM -- which now seems unlikely -- he was a champion faking for his ruler (and if so, kudos to you). This does lend credence to Motep's reveal as well. I love analysis, but it does sometimes lead to the wrong answer.
As to my assessment of holmgang scores, I refer you to the write-up by Sigurd at the end of Midgard I:
Re: The Midgard Saga 1606
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tally:
Murdered (14):
Destroyer of Hope
Sir Moody
Dutch_guy
ByzantineKnight
Redleg
Sasaki
Crazed Rabbit
Pevergreen
Omanes Alexandrapolites the Idiot
KukriKhan
Husar
Seamus
--------------------
Prole
Donc
Killed in Holmgang (7):
HughTower (Redleg)
Orb (Lord Motep)
Reenk Roink (Seamus)
Kagemusha (Omanes)
CountArach (Stig)
Sapi (Andres)
GeneralHankerchief (Caius Flaminius)
Executed (6):
Discovery1
Ichigo
Warluster
Lord Motep of Kendermore
AndresTheCunning
Caius Flaminus
WoG (3)
JimBob
Sir Boo
Fenring
Still Alive (2):
Alexander the Pretty Good
Stig
The roles and Holmgang ability (HA):
Alexander the Pretty Good - Jotun (Rugne) HA : 7
AndresTheCunning – townie HA: 2
ByzantineKnight – War Vet HA: 3
Caius Flaminius – townie HA: 2
CountArach - Champion (sapi) HA: 4
Crazed Rabbit - War Vet HA: 3
Destroyer of Hope - Jarl in Hordaland HA: 5
Discovery1 – War Vet HA: 3
Don Corleone – War Vet HA: 3
Dutch_guy - King of Hordaland HA : 6
GeneralHankerchief – townie HA: 2
HughTower - Champion (pevergreen) HA: 4
Husar - Odin HA: 8
Ichigo – War Vet HA: 3
JimBob – War Vet HA: 3
Kagemusha – War Vet HA: 3
Kralizec - Champion (Redleg) HA: 4
KukriKhan – War Vet HA: 3
Lord Motep of Kendermore - Champion (Duch) HA: 4
Omanes Alexandrapolites the Idiot - King of Rogaland HA: 6
Orb – townie HA: 2
pevergreen - King of Sogn HA: 6
Proletariat - Idun HA: 7
Redleg - Jarl in Rogaland HA: 5
Reenk Roink - Loki HA: 7 (chose Jotun allegiance)
sapi - Jarl in Sogn HA: 5
Sasaki Kojiro – townie HA: 2
Seamus Fermanagh - Heimdall HA: 7
Sir Boo – Champion (Omanes) HA: 4
Sir Moody – Champion (DoH) HA: 4
Stig - Jotun (Utgards Loke) HA: 8
Warluster - Jotun (Trym) HA: 7
Write up will be written during the weekend
Thank you for participating people... It was fun (I think).
This does NOT mean that Sigurd is using the exact same rubric this time, but my assessments were based upon this data.
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 04:00
Damn this is one confusing mess!!
So it seems tratorix was telling the truth ? unless seamus idea about him being a champion sacrificing for his ruler is right, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside but unfortunatly the events seemed to happen to quickly and i think tratorix reveal was spot on, motep's i am not too sure about, it does seem like a good idea not to lynch him next round though, let us see if we can somehow confirm his role rather than lynch yet another pro town role, because as it is we have lynched a god and a lord, we have to get this back on track somehow...
GH does seem slightly suspicious as he was wrong about tratorix and well im unsure if he's right about motep or not, in fairness though there does seem to be a hell of a lot of confusion going round, so it could just as easily be a pro-town who is as confused as i am.... i have to apologise for not casting my vote but in the circumstances i don't really think i could have helped, the only thing i know now is that voting for tratorix was a bad idea...
Gah! my head is still spinning!
Damn this is one confusing mess!!
So it seems tratorix was telling the truth ? unless seamus idea about him being a champion sacrificing for his ruler is right, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside but unfortunatly the events seemed to happen to quickly and i think tratorix reveal was spot on, motep's i am not too sure about, it does seem like a good idea not to lynch him next round though, let us see if we can somehow confirm his role rather than lynch yet another pro town role, because as it is we have lynched a god and a lord, we have to get this back on track somehow...
GH does seem slightly suspicious as he was wrong about tratorix and well im unsure if he's right about motep or not, in fairness though there does seem to be a hell of a lot of confusion going round, so it could just as easily be a pro-town who is as confused as i am.... i have to apologise for not casting my vote but in the circumstances i don't really think i could have helped, the only thing i know now is that voting for tratorix was a bad idea...
Gah! my head is still spinning!
I dont blame you, and it would have been best would I have not voted in the first place.
To tell the truth, I harly understand what the hell is goin on, and I went through it while it happened! We will know in the end , however.
KukriKhan
08-13-2008, 04:43
Cloying sympathy for the lowly townie = scum.
No 'Norse' = scum.
Even I, a lowly human, received
https://jimcee.homestead.com/human-me.jpg
translation: "human"
Our host may have dropped the ball, but I sincerely doubt it.
Motep is our next target.
I regret that my votes have led to killing of town-friendly roles. But even if that is true (that they were town-friendly) the fact is: they didn't help us much so far, so have deserved their fate(s). If you have a power role, tell someone you trust... lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way - in my very humble peasant opinion. Don't just sit there polishing your crown and admiring your reflection, HELP the good guys.
Meanwhile: those who didn't vote = look out. My little 4 (now that the roll of the dice decided) Holmgang score is itching to either whack you, or reveal your scummyness.
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 05:10
Don't challenge today, im not sure what the thinking is but aslong as the right holmgang challenge is picked today some people seem to think it will reveal some information to us, it can't hurt to try as far as im concerned...
KukriKhan
08-13-2008, 05:41
Don't challenge today, im not sure what the thinking is but aslong as the right holmgang challenge is picked today some people seem to think it will reveal some information to us, it can't hurt to try as far as im concerned...
Fine. Roger, wilco. I admit: having won a single Holmgang against another townie has emboldened me. It's probably better if I shut up and let the power-roles talk more.
pevergreen
08-13-2008, 05:55
I can't let my #1 suspect keep going.
Even I, a lowly human, received
Well I didnt, unless Firefox is blocking it without telling me.
Hmmmm...
The Jotun have to kill the lords, don't they?
So a Jotun taking the risk of exposing himself by pressing for the lynching of a Lord is a possibility.
Let's see, GeneralHankerchief wants us to lynch Lord A, but not Lord B. When Lord A dies, it becomes clear that GeneralHankerchief was wrong. If we therefore assume he is Jotun, we assume that Lord B is a fake and lynch him.
Could it be that GH is a Jotun with a masterplan, sacrifycing himself to take down two Lords?
I have a pretty decent Holmgang score. Do we really want Motep, a possible Lord, to fight GH? If not, I can challenge GH to narrow down the odds of Motep actually having to fight.
On the other hand, Motep's role pm looks far less genuine than the one Tratorix posted.
And in the worst case, we are losing our time by focusing on both GH and Motep...
Gah, gah, gah! Where's Kommodus when you need him?
pevergreen
08-13-2008, 09:06
We all know its not a great idea to rely on Kommo.
I don't really suspect GH, not as much as KK and them Motep.
While im here, can I get a reply to that unrelated PM Andres?
Kagemusha
08-13-2008, 09:23
Hmmmm...
The Jotun have to kill the lords, don't they?
So a Jotun taking the risk of exposing himself by pressing for the lynching of a Lord is a possibility.
Let's see, GeneralHankerchief wants us to lynch Lord A, but not Lord B. When Lord A dies, it becomes clear that GeneralHankerchief was wrong. If we therefore assume he is Jotun, we assume that Lord B is a fake and lynch him.
Could it be that GH is a Jotun with a masterplan, sacrifycing himself to take down two Lords?
I have a pretty decent Holmgang score. Do we really want Motep, a possible Lord, to fight GH? If not, I can challenge GH to narrow down the odds of Motep actually having to fight.
On the other hand, Motep's role pm looks far less genuine than the one Tratorix posted.
And in the worst case, we are losing our time by focusing on both GH and Motep...
Gah, gah, gah! Where's Kommodus when you need him?
Calm down good man.:beam: The beaty of the plan is that if Motep is indeed a king, he wont fight GH himself, but his champion will take on GH, also proving simultaneosly that Motep is indeed a king. If no Champion will emerge, we can judge that Motep is a fake and lynch him if he kills GH.:yes:
Craterus
08-13-2008, 09:28
That's not strictly true though, is it Kage?
The PM clearly states that Sigurd will PM Motep to ask if he wishes his champion to take his place. Now that he has revealed, what would be the point in hiding behind his champion?
Gaius Scribonius Curio
08-13-2008, 09:31
Furthermore as far as I understand it, kings are stronger than champions, seen as he has been revealed. There would be little point in switching in.
Kagemusha
08-13-2008, 09:35
That's not strictly true though, is it Kage?
The PM clearly states that Sigurd will PM Motep to ask if he wishes his champion to take his place. Now that he has revealed, what would be the point in hiding behind his champion?
Well the point being that otherwise we will hang him high the next day. On the other hand if he comes through ok.Thor knows who to protect. By using his champion he can clear himself in the eyes of the town.Dont you guys see the forest from the trees?
Gaius Scribonius Curio
08-13-2008, 09:42
Its quite possible, indeed likely, that the Jotun will have targeted Motep tonight anyway, why would they not target him (unless he is Jotun), when he has revealed a PM, even at the risk it is fake? In other words Thor should protect Motep tonight anyway, just in case.
Kagemusha
08-13-2008, 09:45
Its quite possible, indeed likely, that the Jotun will have targeted Motep tonight anyway, why would they not target him (unless he is Jotun), when he has revealed a PM, even at the risk it is fake? In other words Thor should protect Motep tonight anyway, just in case.
agreed.
Sarathos
08-13-2008, 09:55
Its quite possible, indeed likely, that the Jotun will have targeted Motep tonight anyway, why would they not target him (unless he is Jotun), when he has revealed a PM, even at the risk it is fake? In other words Thor should protect Motep tonight anyway, just in case.
But what if Motep's reveal is fake? Then you are protecting a Jotun with a God whilst giving them the freedom to kill, do know absurd that is....
pevergreen
08-13-2008, 09:58
do know absurd that is....
No, I dont.
Motep selected for Holmgang:
He either fights himself, possibly killing GH, and giving clues as to both their strengths. This could result in Motep being lynched.
He gets his champion, if he has one, to fight for him. This quite possibly reveals another decent townsperson to the mafia.
Or he doesnt get selected for Holmgang at all.
Kagemusha
08-13-2008, 09:58
But what if Motep's reveal is fake? Then you are protecting a Jotun with a God whilst giving them the freedom to kill, do know absurd that is....
And if you are wrong, another King would be dead. I think protecting a Jotuin for one round is lot smaller mistake then getting another king killed.
Craterus
08-13-2008, 10:04
And if you are wrong, another King would be dead. I think protecting a Jotuin for one round is lot smaller mistake then getting another king killed.
Then why are you calling for his lynch tomorrow? At least try and be consistent.
pever's PM reveal looks fake.
Calm down good man.:beam: The beaty of the plan is that if Motep is indeed a king, he wont fight GH himself, but his champion will take on GH, also proving simultaneosly that Motep is indeed a king. If no Champion will emerge, we can judge that Motep is a fake and lynch him if he kills GH.:yes:
Well, it's still early in the game isn't it?
We already managed to lynch one King, do we really want to lose a second one in Holmgang?
His Champion will have to pm Sigurd to take his place. What if his champion isn't online? Also, what's the point in having the Champion reveal as well, since his King has already been exposed?
If we assume that GeneralHankerchief is a clever player and Jotun, than he has wonderfully manipulated us to take down two Kings + reveal another Champion + surviving himself.
Don't you think there's something fishy going on?
Tratorix' reveal mentioned a confirmed innocent as his champion. Why did GH insist on lynching Tratorix while we could have easily checked the validity of his claim? GH is more than clever enough to have realised that himself.
Why did GH vigorously defend Motep, who posted almost the exact same role pm, without mentioning the Champion, ergo no confirmed innocent to vouch for him?
The claim by Motep is most likely genuine as well, but it seemed far less genuine than Tratorix' claim, which could have been easily counterclaimed once TB got online, yet GH decided to go after Tratorix and to believe Motep.
Why was lynching Tratorix so urgent? You were all yelling for Sigurd to extend the round, while you could have easily waited for another turn before lynching Tratorix.
I'm pointing fingers at all those who were yelling "there's not enough time, please extend the round", while you could have easily argued: "unvote Motep and Tratorix, we can't risk to lynch a possible Lord this early in the game, so we'll wait for another round."
Anyway, GeneralHankerchief, imo used bad logic to lynch a Lord and to raise suspicion towards another King.
I have pretty high stats and I'm willing to test my luck against that Jotun scumbag who already gave me bad vibes in the previous round:
Challenge : GeneralHankerchief
Then why are you calling for his lynch tomorrow? At least try and be consistent.
Good point.
Craterus
08-13-2008, 10:18
Why is GH so eager to be in a Holmgang? Surely he's running the risk of being revealed as a Jotun by doing so?
No, it doesn't make sense to me.
Why is GH so eager to be in a Holmgang? Surely he's running the risk of being revealed as a Jotun by doing so?
No, it doesn't make sense to me.
He won't be revealed as Jotun during the Holmgang. In Midgard I, all assumptions based on the write-ups of the Holmgang mislead the town.
Ignore Holmgang write-ups, they were misleading in Midgard I and I don't think Sigurd will make it easier for the town in this game.
Look at how I, a townie with a score of 2 easily defeated sapi, who was a King with a score of 5 or 6 in Midgard I. This was used against me and when I got lynched, I didn't go to valhalla and everybody assumed I was Jotun.
Use the Holmgang to try to kill suspects. Don't expect more from it.
pevergreen
08-13-2008, 10:33
pever's PM reveal looks fake.
How so, not only did I have no reason to reveal, it's going against everyone elses claims. I have no runes, I stick by that. I deleted only one line off my PM, because I want to be able to verify if anyone claims that PM as well later.
I havent seen a townie pm claimed, so I presume its the right one...
Craterus
08-13-2008, 10:38
Use the Holmgang to try to kill suspects. Don't expect more from it.
I feel you may already be expecting too much. :wink: If the Jotun have the best Holmgang ratings in the game, then what use is giving them the opportunity to (probably) kill you? Surely just helps them along? ~:rolleyes: Especially if they're not going to be revealed by it.
Where did pever reveal? Privately?
Kagemusha
08-13-2008, 10:42
Then why are you calling for his lynch tomorrow? At least try and be consistent.
I have explained the simple and effective plan for bunch of times now. But i will spell it out again.
1.Thor should protect Motep this night
2. Motep should use his champion in homgang, to show that he is what he says he is.
3. If Motep comes clean and uses his Champion, we know that he is a king and should be protected./If not he should be lynched as he has been lying and is propably a Jotun.
4. If GH and Moteps Holmgang does not happen, we should put him against someone as alone Holmgang the next round.
The idea is to actually find out for certain what Motep is. I cant understand how you call that inconsistent, when otherwise we are left guessing. Moteps champion is expendable, if he is a king, because then he can defend himself in Holmgang while Thor can protect him during nights. What part in this is inconsistent or hard to understand?:smash:
I feel you may already be expecting too much. :wink: If the Jotun have the best Holmgang ratings in the game, then what use is giving them the opportunity to (probably) kill you? Surely just helps them along? ~:rolleyes: Especially if they're not going to be revealed by it.
Where did pever reveal? Privately?
Ha!
What are the options?
a) wait until the Jotun kills me at night;
b) fight the Jotun with a high probability of dieing during the attempt, but with a real chance of actually killing one of them. If a peasant was able to kill a King in Midgard I, then surely I must now be able to kill a Jotun.
I prefer to die while trying to kill a Jotun like a real warrior, than dieing in my sleep!
Craterus
08-13-2008, 10:44
Why he should risk his (innocent) champion just to prove something to you? That's what I'm not understanding.
I believe the reveal, clearly you don't. Either that, or you're Jotun and you're not satisfied that the town has already lynched 2 key figures and you have the laughable audacity to ask for one more.
Craterus
08-13-2008, 10:46
Ha!
What are the options?
a) wait until the Jotun kills me at night;
b) fight the Jotun with a high probability of dying during the attempt, but with a real chance of actually killing one of them. If a peasant was able to kill a King in Midgard I, then surely I must now be able to kill a Jotun.
Ok, I'll concede that. Go ahead, challenge away. :nice:
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 11:02
I can see your points andres but i think the town would be better leaving it at a 50% chance of a Motep Vs GH fight, as quite a few people are suspicious of both so we will kill off a suspect and if both are telling the truth about thier roles, the lord, Motep will survive, but the chances off this are getting slimmer all the time...
pevergreen
08-13-2008, 11:06
Where did pever reveal? Privately?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1988594&postcount=538
I can see your points andres but i think the town would be better leaving it at a 50% chance of a Motep Vs GH fight, as quite a few people are suspicious of both so we will kill off a suspect and if both are telling the truth about thier roles, the lord, Motep will survive, but the chances off this are getting slimmer all the time...
Nope, because a townie can kill a King. So if Motep fights, there's always a real chance of him getting killed.
Now, apparently, Motep did reveal his Champion and edited it out. A few people have seen the name of the champion (FH and PK? were there others?).
All we have to do is wait for the Champion to reveal and confirm Moteps' claim to those people.
It's early in the game and we still have plenty of time to lynch Motep if he turns out to be a fake.
For now, I want Motep to survive. If the Champion isn't online today, Motep will have to fight if his Holmgang gets picked by Sigurd.
It is very likely that we lynched a king already. By challenging, I narrow down the odds of Motep actually having to fight. Challenging GH is the obvious choice. If Motep's champion is online, he must inform Sigurd that he will take his place, just in case the GH vs Motep gets picked by Sigurd.
At this stage, with the incomplete evidence we have, we must at all costs avoid that Motep has to fight. Since I believe GH is scum, I strongly encourage those with stats of 6 or higher to challenge him.
Also, if there's a God able to protect, he should protect Motep. Better to protect someone who is most likely a King than some random guy.
Kagemusha
08-13-2008, 11:19
Nope, because a townie can kill a King. So if Motep fights, there's always a real chance of him getting killed.
Now, apparently, Motep did reveal his Champion and edited it out. A few people have seen the name of the champion (FH and PK? were there others?).
All we have to do is wait for the Champion to reveal and confirm Moteps' claim to those people.
It's early in the game and we still have plenty of time to lynch Motep if he turns out to be a fake.
For now, I want Motep to survive. If the Champion isn't online today, Motep will have to fight if his Holmgang gets picked by Sigurd.
It is very likely that we lynched a king already. By challenging, I narrow down the odds of Motep actually having to fight. Challenging GH is the obvious choice. If Motep's champion is online, he must inform Sigurd that he will take his place, just in case the GH vs Motep gets picked by Sigurd.
At this stage, with the incomplete evidence we have, we must at all costs avoid that Motep has to fight. Since I believe GH is scum, I strongly encourage those with stats of 6 or higher to challenge him.
Also, if there's a God able to protect, he should protect Motep. Better to protect someone who is most likely a King than some random guy.
Andres.There is no risk of Motep dying if he is indeed King and uses his champion.So please refrain from challenging anyone. To be honest, i find your frenzy to challenge bit suspicious.
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 11:20
Okay i see your reasoning, and i guess even if they are both telling the truth GH could get lucky and kill Motep, for what its worth i do think GH is just a regular townie, i think a mafia would be suicidal to act like he's acting, i think if he was mafia he would be smarter than that...
Edit: Kage has a point as well, i forgot we were hoping his champion would take his place, wouldn't that just reveal Moteps champion as well though ?
Another power town role revealed in the thread can't be a good thing...
Craterus
08-13-2008, 11:26
What's the problem with Motep's reveal?
I heard that the lack of runes could well be a browser problem or, dare I say it, a slip-up from the host. I see no reason why Motep or his champion needs to die.
pevergreen
08-13-2008, 11:28
What's the problem with Motep's reveal?
I heard that the lack of runes could well be a browser problem or, dare I say it, a slip-up from the host. I see no reason why Motep or his champion needs to die.
It could be a slip-up but I checked my PM in IE7 and FF3, no runes.
Andres.There is no risk of Motep dying if he is indeed King and uses his champion.So please refrain from challenging anyone. To be honest, i find your frenzy to challenge bit suspicious.
If you would have read my post carefully, you would have noticed that I said that there's a chance of Motep's champion not being online in time and that I said that if he manages to be online, he should take Motep's place.
Several people have seen the name of the champion before Motep edited it out. We just have to wait for the Champion to pop up and counterclaim in public, or confirm Motep in private.
In the meanwhile, we must at all costs avoid Motep actually having to fight.
If the Champion is not online, than at the current stage, there's a 1/3 change of Motep having to fight.
I want the risk of losing Motep in the next Holmgang to be as small as possible.
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 11:30
I think a few people had a problem with it because it came not long after tratorix's reveal, and it used alot of the same wording, in fairness Motep made it not long after tratorix's reveal because someone said to vote motep to save tratorix the king, and it looked similair because it was the same role as tratorix's, it could have been a daring attempt to save his skin, for what its worth im thinking its genuine...
Kagemusha
08-13-2008, 11:30
What's the problem with Motep's reveal?
I heard that the lack of runes could well be a browser problem or, dare I say it, a slip-up from the host. I see no reason why Motep or his champion needs to die.
My friend are you following this game at all?Motep revealed after Tratorix, with almost identical pm, wqhich could have been easily forged. Why do you want to take his word as gospel, when we can easily find out for sure?
Warmaster Horus
08-13-2008, 11:31
It's a near copy of Tratorix' PM, and it apparently doesn't have a rune pic on top.
Then there's the story about the font, but I don't know what to make of it.
Edit: 3 posts at once... my god is this game getting hectic.
My friend are you following this game at all?Motep revealed after Tratorix, with almost identical pm, wqhich could have been easily forged. Why do you want to take his word as gospel, when we can easily find out for sure?
And I don't agree with the way you want to try to find out for sure, that's all.
Your way provides a risk of losing the King. I want to reduce that risk to the minimum.
Kagemusha
08-13-2008, 11:33
If you would have read my post carefully, you would have noticed that I said that there's a chance of Motep's champion not being online in time and that I said that if he manages to be online, he should take Motep's place.
Several people have seen the name of the champion before Motep edited it out. We just have to wait for the Champion to pop up and counterclaim in public, or confirm Motep in private.
In the meanwhile, we must at all costs avoid Motep actually having to fight.
If the Champion is not online, than at the current stage, there's a 1/3 change of Motep having to fight.
I want the risk of losing Motep in the next Holmgang to be as small as possible.
Well if his champion wont be online in about 24 hours in a such hectic game, we deserve to loose him. I cant understand why we should shoot at random directions, when we actually have suspicious players to go after. You do understand that lack of reveal of Moteps champion might as well mean that actually he doesnt have a champion and has been lying to us?
EDIT: Your way also offers a clear way for mafia to outmanouver the town.
Craterus
08-13-2008, 11:33
I don't find it so hard to believe that the host would use similar PMs for similar roles.
Ah well, if it takes his champion revealing publicly to quench this bloodlust then there's little I can do.
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 11:33
With you way though Andres, how long do we wait on a silent champion before we decide Motep is lieing ?
Well if his champion wont be online in about 24 hours in a such hectic game, we deserve to loose him. I cant understand why we should shoot at random directions, when we actually have suspicious players to go after. You do understand that lack of reveal of Moteps champion might as well mean that actually he doesnt have a champion and has been lying to us?
EDIT: Your way also offers a clear way for mafia to outmanouver the town.
The thing is, if his champion won't be online, we risk losing Motep, not the lazy champion.
Oh, and I didn't challenge GH at random. If he survives the Holmgang and unless better evidence pops up, I will insist on lynching him, because I believe he's scum. Surely, you read my case against him, so I don't like how you call me challenging GH "shooting at random directions." :inquisitive:
Kagemusha
08-13-2008, 11:39
I don't find it so hard to believe that the host would use similar PMs for similar roles.
Ah well, if it takes his champion revealing publicly to quench this bloodlust then there's little I can do.
Except for Kings, the rest of us are similarly expendable in this game unless being Gods, so in the end if Jotuns kill the champion of a King next,which i doubt, since i dont think Motep even has a champion, it is better then them killing a God or another King by luck.
Craterus
08-13-2008, 11:42
Well, I'll just say that the champion in question is probably the least likely player to show up and post so... it'll be interesting to see where your analysis turns next. 3rd consecutive powertown lynching, wow...just wow.
It's as if the town is hellbent on self-destruction.
Kagemusha
08-13-2008, 11:45
Well, I'll just say that the champion in question is probably the least likely player to show up and post so... it'll be interesting to see where your analysis turns next. 3rd consecutive powertown lynching, wow...just wow.
It's as if the town is hellbent on self-destruction.
Oh my goodnes.If there is a champion so dump that he would prefer hiding, over putting his master in life danger, then again we deserve to loose another king.
pevergreen
08-13-2008, 11:46
We dont deserve to lose a king, we need to make people understand turning up once a day is kind of needed.
FactionHeir
08-13-2008, 12:15
His "champion" was online. And anyone still throwing more challenges into the ring is just trying to save their Jotun buddy.
I still find Motep's reveal suspicious, but right now I think GH is the best lynch/holmgang choice and agree that Motep's "champion" should be fighting GH if it comes to their match.
Even if it doesn't, I think next turn we should continue to pit these two against each other and refrain from any other challenges.
There's nothing that can be done about the challenges now, as they cannot be retracted. However, I DO think that the proper move if Motep is selected is for his Champion to take his place. I have seen a Champion PM and they are NOT "power town" roles in the usual sense. A Champion exists only to protect his Lord and other than that he appears to be just a townie with a bigger Holmgang score. Losing a Champion is not a major blow to the town, but losing a Lord most certainly is. Given that having a Champion substitute for him would prove conclusively that Motep is innocent, I think this should be done if the situation pops up.
Keep in mind that the Jotun already know whatever the truth is about Motep. If Motep is Jotun, the situation is obvious. If Motep is not Jotun, then his PM must be legit because he would not otherwise have posted it (unless he's perhaps swapped with his Champion.) Therefore, if Motep is telling the truth, the Jotun already know that he is a Lord and confirming that he is a Lord by having his Champion protect him will give the Jotun no more info whatsoever, but it will solve a major problem for the town, which is currently going nuts.
The best possible Holmgang outcome IMO is that GH fights Motep, Motep's Champion takes his place, and GH dies.
Didn't someone mention who Motep named as a champion or did I get that info from the chat?
Anyway, if it comes to a fight, the champion should fight, that way we would know for sure that Motep is a king.
And in general, people, when a champion takes over for his king/lord, wouldn't that king/lord be pretty much revealed anyway because some other guy is fighting where he should fight? Unless of course the enemy was involved in more than one Holmgang challenge, but even then the writeup may mention that player x was replaced by champion y.
@ Husar: You suspect due to the fact I'm analysing stuff, give me an example of a mafia game I've played where I haven't acted like this... Or if you want to prove yourself the bigger man I'll meet you on the battlefield (and rip your heart from your unfortunate body...).
Exactly, you always act like this, probably even when you're guilty, that makes you very suspicious.
That thing about the heart and unfortunate body makes you sound like a Jotun as well. :inquisitive:
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 13:02
Didn't someone mention who Motep named as a champion or did I get that info from the chat?
It isn't mentioned in the thread anywhere, so has the champion been online since Motep mentioned him ? and has he confirmed or denied Moteps identity to anyone ?
Seamus Fermanagh
08-13-2008, 13:02
Andres:
As Runyon said, "the race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong -- but that is the way to bet."
Yes, a "2" can get lucky with Sigurd's system and take down a "6" or even a "7," so we cannot ascribe a perfect detective value to the results of a holmgang. However, the system DOES result it a power-fighter winning a great majority of the time. Such information should not be ignored either.
You seem a touch quick to dismiss it.
And in general, people, when a champion takes over for his king/lord, wouldn't that king/lord be pretty much revealed anyway because some other guy is fighting where he should fight? Unless of course the enemy was involved in more than one Holmgang challenge, but even then the writeup may mention that player x was replaced by champion y.
Very true, which is why the question of whether to have a Champion fight for his Lord is a very serious one when no one knows what the Lord's role is. However, Motep is already claiming to be a Lord, and if he's telling the truth then his cover is already blown. So, there's no damage to Motep in particular from having the Champion fight, and it might save his skin if GH is Jotun or just absurdly lucky. This is definitely an unusual situation though, and the general policy you note should receive heavy consideration in most other cases.
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 15:21
Andres, just stop talking.
Since I believe GH is scum, I strongly encourage those with stats of 6 or higher to challenge him.
You do realize that, if the town follows this strategy, then whoever challenges me will essentially put themselves on the Jotun's hit list to be whacked at night, right? Right? I think you want everybody with high stats to be drawn out.
Think about it. Andres "believes" I'm Jotun, using his high stats to take me down in Holmgang and discredit me at the same time. The bad guys are sitting pretty, plus they have a shiny new list of high-stat targets to work with for the next few nights.
Lynch Andres next round.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 15:23
Don't you guys realize that Motep's Champion probably can not take his place?
Motep "challenged" GH. From what I understand, from reading Midgard 1, is that the Champion only takes the Lord's place if the Lord is challeged.
If GH challenged Motep, then the Champion could take Motep's place.
So all we have done, if I am right, is put yet another King at risk.
:wall:
Don't you guys realize that Motep's Champion probably can not take his place?
Motep "challenged" GH. From what I understand, from reading Midgard 1, is that the Champion only takes the Lord's place if the Lord is challeged.
If GH challenged Motep, then the Champion could take Motep's place.
So all we have done, if I am right, is put yet another King at risk.
:wall:
Hence the need for more challenges, to narrow down the odds that Motep has to fight.
Andres, just stop talking.
You do realize that, if the town follows this strategy, then whoever challenges me will essentially put themselves on the Jotun's hit list to be whacked at night, right? Right? I think you want everybody with high stats to be drawn out.
Think about it. Andres "believes" I'm Jotun, using his high stats to take me down in Holmgang and discredit me at the same time. The bad guys are sitting pretty, plus they have a shiny new list of high-stat targets to work with for the next few nights.
Lynch Andres next round.
Attack is the best defense, eh?
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 15:26
Don't respond to the points or anything.
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 15:39
I really don't think GH is Jotun, his actions have been at best.... unhelpful, but it really would be some kind of crazy suicidal Jotun that would act like GH is acting, his defence of bored townie rings true to me...
Actually Andres, GH has a really good point, you have been acting very scummy...
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 15:43
But what if it is true that we won't be able to tell a Jotun from the Holmgang? If GH is Jotun, he has basically promised to try to kill an extra townie every single turn. This should not be overlooked guys...
"bored Holmganging" or It-is-there-so-I-am-going-to-use-it-every-turn-because-I-can Holmganging should be looked at just as badly as "joke Holmganging."
:brood:
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 15:45
You're seriously not going to rake me over the coals because of my Holmgang challenge in Round 1, are you? Because then you'd have to lynch about 10 other people as well. I Holmganged FH this round because at the time, people were saying he was suspicious.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 15:47
You're seriously not going to rake me over the coals because of my Holmgang challenge in Round 1, are you? Because then you'd have to lynch about 10 other people as well. I Holmganged FH this round because at the time, people were saying he was suspicious.
Sorry GH but your looking mighty suspicious...
And your promise to kill one of us every turn does not do much to endear you to me. ~;p
Don't respond to the points or anything.
Oh, the hypocrisy. You took one sentence out of all my posts and immediately attacked me, conveniently ignoring everything else I said.
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 15:49
Oh, the hypocrisy. You took one sentence out of all my posts and immediately attacked me, conveniently ignoring everything else I said.
Don't respond to my points or anything.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 15:53
A Jotun probably has crazy high Holmgang stats. So, they will probably whoop anyone in Holmgang except a God.
A Jotun knows who the other Jotun are so they don't have to worry about accidently challenging one of their own.
A Jotun probably doesn't have to worry about accidently Holmganging a God since Gods are less likely to challenge. Unlike Jotun, Gods don't want to kill townies.
In Midgard 1, Stig's Holmgang didn't really reveal that he was Jotun.
So if a Jotun can keep their identity hidden, and usually win in Holmgangs, then it is in their interest to challege every turn.
GH's "It is there so I will use it and to hell with what you think" attitude fits this perfectly. :brood:
Don't respond to my points or anything.
Same goes for you. You can keep hammering on that as much as you want, the fact still remains that you are the one not responding to my points. Instead of doing so, you chose the attack.
You do realize that, if the town follows this strategy, then whoever challenges me will essentially put themselves on the Jotun's hit list to be whacked at night, right? Right? I think you want everybody with high stats to be drawn out.
Think about it. Andres "believes" I'm Jotun, using his high stats to take me down in Holmgang and discredit me at the same time. The bad guys are sitting pretty, plus they have a shiny new list of high-stat targets to work with for the next few nights.
Ah, but it's the Kings who need to survive. We can afford losing townies with high stats, they are expandable.
Besides, a smart low stat townie can mess your Jotun minds by also joining the challenge spree.
And I don't just "believe" you are Jotun. Instead of reading one sentence, you should have read all other sentences I posted as well. I have pretty good reasons to think you are Jotun scum.
Now, are you going to address my points or will you continue to ignore them?
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 16:02
PK, honestly, just shut up.
You've played in how many big games now? Three? And you were mafia in one of them, right?
I haven't been mafia in over a year. And that's way more than three games. Capo you can make a case for, but that doesn't really count. The last time I was mafia was in Caius's game "Il Padrino". Don't remember it? That's okay, it's buried in the Gameroom. Before that, it was Omanes's first ever large game, The Brotherhood Part I. I was lynched the first round that game. And both games, while large, aren't really remembered by players as a whole compared to, say, Midgard I or Netherworld or Mafia VI. To find the last "big" game I was mafia in, you have to go back to Graffiti Mafia, which took place all the way back in January 2007.
Signing up for game after game and getting townie PM after townie PM gets very old after a while, PK, you just haven't been around long enough to understand yet. Even in The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly, Myrddraal's game, when there were something like 13 players and 12 special roles, I got the townie PM.
So you'll excuse me if I'm trying to inject some fun and excitement into my Gameroom experience, because Lord knows the hosts and whatever selection systems they used haven't been doing it for me. After all, the first rule of all Mafia games is to have fun. All I want to do is be in a Holmgang, and don't you dare send pitchforks and torches out after me because of that. Don't you dare.
I would like to again make a general plea to the town not to make any more challenges, or if you absolutely cannot restrain yourself, at least challenge GH. As it stands now, GH will be fighting no matter what happens. If he is the low-level townie that he claims, he will likely lose. That will solve one of our problems. If he wins, we can try and figure out whether it was luck or 1337 Jotun skillz when it is done. Let's just make sure we get a USEFUL Holmgang instead of something that is going to cause more problems.
Ah, but it's the Kings who need to survive. We can afford losing townies with high stats, they are expandable.
Motep challenged GH, not the other way around. If he wants to take such a big risk then let him. There was what 6 Lords last game? One is dead, and the other wants to risk his life. We've still got four out there somewhere.
PK, honestly, just shut up.
Please, play nice :bow:
So you'll excuse me if I'm trying to inject some fun and excitement into my Gameroom experience, because Lord knows the hosts and whatever selection systems they used haven't been doing it for me. After all, the first rule of all Mafia games is to have fun. All I want to do is be in a Holmgang, and don't you dare send pitchforks and torches out after me because of that. Don't you dare.
You mean, having a crowd with pitchforks and torches behind you isn't fun?
We can't lynch you because you didn't get a role in previous games? I haven't been mafia in a large game for ages either (except Capo)...
Sure, you can have fun, but if your "fun" means that you are going to fight Holmgang just for the sake of fighting Holmgangs and in the process killing townies or a King, than at best you're a townie acting like a serial killer and at worst a Jotun trying to get an extra kill... :shrug:
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 16:17
PK, honestly, just shut up.
Someone sounds hostile... :laugh4:
You've played in how many big games now? Three? And you were mafia in one of them, right?
I haven't been mafia in over a year. And that's way more than three games. Capo you can make a case for, but that doesn't really count. The last time I was mafia was in Caius's game "Il Padrino". Don't remember it? That's okay, it's buried in the Gameroom. Before that, it was Omanes's first ever large game, The Brotherhood Part I. I was lynched the first round that game. And both games, while large, aren't really remembered by players as a whole compared to, say, Midgard I or Netherworld or Mafia VI. To find the last "big" game I was mafia in, you have to go back to Graffiti Mafia, which took place all the way back in January 2007.
Want some cheese with your whine?
Signing up for game after game and getting townie PM after townie PM gets very old after a while, PK, you just haven't been around long enough to understand yet. Even in The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly, Myrddraal's game, when there were something like 13 players and 12 special roles, I got the townie PM.
So we have to lose townies because your bored?
So you'll excuse me if I'm trying to inject some fun and excitement into my Gameroom experience, because Lord knows the hosts and whatever selection systems they used haven't been doing it for me. After all, the first rule of all Mafia games is to have fun. All I want to do is be in a Holmgang, and don't you dare send pitchforks and torches out after me because of that. Don't you dare.
Sorry GH but your rampant Holmganging threatens the town. Therefore, I will discourage it. And I will encourage your lynching if you continue.
Basically what your saying is the equivalent of, "I should be allowed to kill townies because I get boring roles all the time and I want to have fun killing townies."
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 16:17
No, you can't lynch me just because I want to fight and probably die in a Holmgang.
My rating is 4. I'm not going to be winning any title belts. Just let me fight.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 16:19
No, you can't lynch me just because I want to fight and probably die in a Holmgang.
I can lynch you for putting more townies at risk. Sorry, but this game is bigger than just one person's desire to Holmgang. :bow:
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 16:20
You still don't get it, do you? :laugh4:
No, you can't lynch me just because I want to fight and probably die in a Holmgang.
My rating is 4. I'm not going to be winning any title belts. Just let me fight.
How about we lynch you because you insisted on lynching Tratorix...?
There's that Andres guy who has posted an explanation why we should lynch you because of that... Maybe you should go back and read that as well instead of limiting yourself to reading one sentence.
Challenge:GH
I don't care if it makes PK think I'm Jotun, holmganging is unique to this game and looks fun.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 16:22
You still don't get it, do you? :laugh4:
I "get it" just fine. But you simply don't like my stance. :beam:
*edit*
Actually ET, watering down the challenges is good for Motep. Keeps him from getting picked. And GH is as good a target as any. Plus, he said he wants to Holmgang...
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 16:22
That one sentence is all I need to see, Andres. It tells me you're trying to draw out the powerful pro-town players.
-edit- No, obviously, you don't get it. Maybe you will after I die.
I can lynch you for putting more townies at risk. Sorry, but this game is bigger than just one person's desire to Holmgang. :bow:
:inquisitive::sweatdrop:
That one sentence is all I need to see, Andres. It tells me you're trying to draw out the powerful pro-town players.
-edit- No, obviously, you don't get it. Maybe you will after I die.
So you keep ignoring the fact that insisting on lynching Tratorix was suspicious?
woad&fangs
08-13-2008, 16:26
GH, what does the bolded part of your role PM say?
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 16:28
-edit- No, obviously, you don't get it. Maybe you will after I die.
Well, I am "daring" to send the pitchforks after you for Holmganging. Now, what are you going to do about it? Yell at me to shut up again? ~;p
:inquisitive::sweatdrop:
I meant it as calling for a lynch. We use "I will lynch you" and "I will call for your lynching" quite interchangebly. But if you want me to be more specific, I will. If GH insists on thinning out the townie herd with pointless Holmgangs, I will vote for him to be lynched.
Despite all the hostility and harsh language he throws in my direction. :laugh4:
Just remember what you guys did last time.
CountArach: 6 (Andres, glyphz, Husar, Kukrikhaan, Privateerkev, Warmaster H )
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 16:32
So you keep ignoring the fact that insisting on lynching Tratorix was suspicious?
I thought he was guilty.
GH, what does the bolded part of your role PM say?
The bolded stuff says "Hankar 'The Chieftain'", my role (war veteran), and 4 (my Holmgang score).
Yell at me to shut up again?
That wasn't yelling, that was an offhand dismissal. When I yell online I use italics and/or exclamation points.
If GH insists on thinning out the townie herd with pointless Holmgangs
Wrong.
Despite all the hostility and harsh language he throws in my direction.
I'm sorry if you consider one offhand dismissal of a situation you clearly don't have a grasp of "harsh language."
FactionHeir
08-13-2008, 16:33
woad actually lives? :tongue2:
That aside, with so many challenges on GH, can't that just count as a lynch? :clown:
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 16:33
Just remember what you guys did last time.
CA acted wierd. He bounced his vote around a whole lot for weak reasons. On D1, with so little evidence, he seemed like the best lynch choice. This ended up being a major error on our part but at the time it seemed like the best thing to do.
People with power-town roles need to keep in mind that we don't know who they are. So if they act suspicious, they are going to be voted on.
Just remember what you guys did last time.
CountArach: 6 (Andres, glyphz, Husar, Kukrikhaan, Privateerkev, Warmaster H )
Your point being...?
CA was a typical random round 1 lynch. You are comparing apples with oranges. It's not like CA revealed or so, he was just unlucky enough to be the victim of a first round bandwagon...
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 16:36
Seeing as you seem to be dead in the water already, maybe you could explain your reasoning to some of our slower participants like Grizzy who really really doesnt get it ?
EDIT: for clarity i was talking to GH in reference to his comment about you really don't get it, maybe you will after im dead...
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 16:36
Seeing as you seem to be dead in the water already, maybe you could explain your reasoning to some of our slower participants like Grizzy who really really doesnt get it ?
Was that directed at me?
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 16:37
I thought he was guilty.
why?
The bolded stuff says "Hankar 'The Chieftain'", my role (war veteran), and 4 (my Holmgang score).
That information could have easily been gleaned from Midgard 1 which I know you played in. Your "reveal" proves nothing.
That wasn't yelling, that was an offhand dismissal. When I yell online I use italics and/or exclamation points.
It was harsh. Maybe in the spirit of mafia games but obviously not in the spirit of the .org since a Mod asked you to tone it down.
Wrong.
Then explain how it helps the town more than it hurts it?
I'm sorry if you consider one offhand dismissal of a situation you clearly don't have a grasp of "harsh language."
Strawman and insincere apology. Do you have anything more constructive to add?
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 16:43
why?
I didn't like the fact that he had Norse at the top and didn't want to reveal it.
That information could have easily been gleaned from Midgard 1 which I know you played in. Your "reveal" proves nothing.
I didn't aim to prove anything, I just answered woad's question.
Then explain how it helps the town more than it hurts it?
Because I'm not utilizing the Holmgang system to kill anybody. I'm using it to die. (Grizzy, there's your explanation)
Strawman and insincere apology.
It wasn't an apology at all. :wink:
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 16:43
Was that directed at me?
Yes, sorry i got my edit in a bit slow and have a bad habit of being too vague...
i was talking to you (gh) in reference to your comment about PK really not getting it, maybe you will after im dead...
Edit: damn i am too slow !!!
Thanks for the clarification GH, i wasn't sure if it was linked to some part of the game or not...
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 16:48
I didn't like the fact that he had Norse at the top and didn't want to reveal it.
Why should he reveal it in public? It would just give the Jotun one more tool for making fake role PM's. He revealed it to me in private without knowing what it meant. I translated it and it confirmed he is who he said he was.
I didn't aim to prove anything, I just answered woad's question.
So you "revealed" without really meaning to "reveal"? It was just a casual "reveal"? Accidental perhaps?
Because I'm not utilizing the Holmgang system to kill anybody. I'm using it to die. (Grizzy, there's your explanation)
But you might kill someone. And it might be a townie. Which is bad for the town. If you truly wanted to die you would just suicide. That is far less hurtful to the town.
It wasn't an apology at all. :wink:
:laugh4:
Well, at least you admit it. But erecting strawmans against me will do nothing to further this discussion. In the future, refute my actual points. Don't just get frustrated at me for ruining your attempt to allieviate your own boredom. :beam:
CA acted wierd. He bounced his vote around a whole lot for weak reasons. On D1, with so little evidence, he seemed like the best lynch choice. This ended up being a major error on our part but at the time it seemed like the best thing to do.
People with power-town roles need to keep in mind that we don't know who they are. So if they act suspicious, they are going to be voted on.
So did everyone else. Now you're doing the exact same thing to GH. Keep that in mind. You've already hurt the town far more than GH could, unless he's Jotun, but I doubt that.
Your point being...?
CA was a typical random round 1 lynch. You are comparing apples with oranges. It's not like CA revealed or so, he was just unlucky enough to be the victim of a first round bandwagon...
You're doing the exact same thing here...again
I'll agree that GH's Holmganging is probably not the best idea, but really it isn't going to hurt the town that much in the long run.
My rating is 4. I'm not going to be winning any title belts. Just let me fight.
What's your role exactly then, please? :inquisitive:
A Jotun probably has crazy high Holmgang stats. So, they will probably whoop anyone in Holmgang except a God.
Uhm, no, their Holmgang stats are probably high, but they might not whoop just anyone, sigurd explained his system to me after the last game and IIRC there was quite some randomness involved, the stats are a hint but they do by no means mean that the better fighter is very likely to win, unless the system changed.
A Jotun probably doesn't have to worry about accidently Holmganging a God since Gods are less likely to challenge. Unlike Jotun, Gods don't want to kill townies.
If the Jotun are challenging then it doesn't matter whether the gods are likely to challenge or not. :dizzy2:
So if a Jotun can keep their identity hidden, and usually win in Holmgangs, then it is in their interest to challege every turn.
No, bollox.
There are a lot of drawbacks for them in challenging often:
1. the more often you challenge, the more attention you get, attention is bad for them unless they have some very convincing things to say.
2. the randomness, they might just lose a jotun or two, in other words a third or two of their forces
3. one idea of Holmgang is indeed that townies can try to challenge Jotun and actually win, even if their chances are not the better chances but they can win.
and then there are lynches, if we lynch one jotun and another jotun dies in holmgang, they will have only one left, I think that's a big risk for them and watching townies kill eachother is a lot safer for them and the result is the same, a townie dies.
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 16:54
Why should he reveal it in public? It would just give the Jotun one more tool for making fake role PM's. He revealed it to me in private without knowing what it meant. I translated it and it confirmed he is who he said he was.
I thought there was a better chance of it saying something like "Jotun" and he didn't want to publicly reveal it for fear of it being translated.
So you "revealed" without really meaning to "reveal"? It was just a casual "reveal"? Accidental perhaps?
I revealed because I no longer care one way or the other. I'm just letting you guys know what I was.
But you might kill someone. And it might be a townie. Which is bad for the town. If you truly wanted to die you would just suicide. That is far less hurtful to the town.
Pfft. No proper Norseman kills himself. It is the epitome of dishonor and shame.
:laugh4:
Well, at least you admit it. But erecting strawmans against me will do nothing to further this discussion. In the future, refute my actual points. Don't just get frustrated at me for ruining your attempt to allieviate your own boredom. :beam:
I wasn't aware that you had any points to be refuted.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 16:56
So did everyone else. Now you're doing the exact same thing to GH. Keep that in mind. You've already hurt the town far more than GH could, unless he's Jotun, but I doubt that.
No, no one else bounced their votes around like CA did. I'm sorry he ended up being a God. But I did what I thought was the best thing with what little information I had.
As for hurting the town, don't put all of it on me. People need to take responsibility for their own suspicious behavior. If CA was not a God, or Tratorix not a King, no one would have blamed me for trying to lynch them. CA was an erratic vote changer and Tratorix was absent from the board when the Jotun were missing night actions.
Both of their behavior was suspicious and would have raised eyebrows in any other mafia game. Their roles make their deaths regrettable but do not eliminate the fact that both of these players behaved suspiciously.
If a player has a powertown role, he needs to think carefully about how his actions are perceived by the other players. That is his responsibility.
I can only act on what I know. If a powertown wants to avoid my gaze, and maintain his hidden status, he better not act "scummy." Because in the meantime I have Jotun to lynch and I will ferret them out using the ways I know.
I'll agree that GH's Holmganging is probably not the best idea, but really it isn't going to hurt the town that much in the long run.
It's not GH's Holmganging that bothers me, it's his insisting on lynching Tratorix.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 17:06
Uhm, no, their Holmgang stats are probably high, but they might not whoop just anyone, sigurd explained his system to me after the last game and IIRC there was quite some randomness involved, the stats are a hint but they do by no means mean that the better fighter is very likely to win, unless the system changed.
In Midgard 1, with a few exceptions, the person with the higher stat won.
If the Jotun are challenging then it doesn't matter whether the gods are likely to challenge or not. :dizzy2:
No but the Gods are more likely statistically to survive the Holmgang. They wouldn't be a "easy Holmgang." The townies however would be easy for a Jotun to kill. It wouldn't be guarenteed but the probability of a Jotun beating a townie in Holmgang is very high.
No, bollox.
There are a lot of drawbacks for them in challenging often:
1. the more often you challenge, the more attention you get, attention is bad for them unless they have some very convincing things to say.
2. the randomness, they might just lose a jotun or two, in other words a third or two of their forces
3. one idea of Holmgang is indeed that townies can try to challenge Jotun and actually win, even if their chances are not the better chances but they can win.
Good points. But "Holmganging for the hell of it" is still bad for the town and will help the Jotun.
No, no one else bounced their votes around like CA did. I'm sorry he ended up being a God. But I did what I thought was the best thing with what little information I had.
As for hurting the town, don't put all of it on me. People need to take responsibility for their own suspicious behavior. If CA was not a God, or Tratorix not a King, no one would have blamed me for trying to lynch them. CA was an erratic vote changer and Tratorix was absent from the board when the Jotun were missing night actions.
Both of their behavior was suspicious and would have raised eyebrows in any other mafia game. Their roles make their deaths regrettable but do not eliminate the fact that both of these players behaved suspiciously.
If a player has a powertown role, he needs to think carefully about how his actions are perceived by the other players. That is his responsibility.
I can only act on what I know. If a powertown wants to avoid my gaze, and maintain his hidden status, he better not act "scummy." Because in the meantime I have Jotun to lynch and I will ferret them out using the ways I know.
Everyone changes votes throughout the game, just because CA did it more, how did that make him more suspicious? It was the first round so there's not much to go on, and so you'd expect people to make multiple vote changes.
That's just funny. It's their fault that you voted for them. You make me laugh :laugh4: Everyone has different things they think make someone suspicious. It's all your own judgment, not their fault your judgment was bad.
Like I said before what you think may be scummy, may not be to them.
It's not GH's Holmganging that bothers me, it's his insisting on lynching Tratorix.
My mistake then. For some reason I thought you were arguing the same thing as PK :dizzy2: :bow:
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 17:21
Everyone changes votes throughout the game, just because CA did it more, how did that make him more suspicious? It was the first round so there's not much to go on, and so you'd expect people to make multiple vote changes.
That's just funny. It's their fault that you voted for them. You make me laugh :laugh4: Everyone has different things they think make someone suspicious. It's all your own judgment, not their fault your judgment was bad.
Like I said before what you think may be scummy, may not be to them.
Yes, people are responsible for their actions in the thread. (or lack of actions as the case may be.)
With so little real evidence to go on, I vote for people based on their actions. I don't like abstaining or meatballing so I try to find real reasons to vote. Even on D1. In my opinion, this is more helpful than just abstaining. So the person I voted for ended up being powertown. I did not know that at the time and their actions were incrementally more suspcious than other actions.
I admit the matter of what is "suspicious" is highly subjective but what else are we supposed to do?
As for GH, he seems less Jotun the more he argues. I am more convinced he is a bored townie. But that does not negate the fact that Holmgangs seem to do more harm to the town than good.
If it is true that a Holmgang will not reveal a Jotun, then we can't even use it for that reason. The only thing we can use it for is to have the tiny chance of killing a Jotun. But that is only if one chooses to fight. It seems that we are far more likely to slaughter each other using the Holmgang. And I am sure the Jotun are sitting back and laughing their heads off as we do it. Because every townie that dies in Holmgang makes their job easier. Just like every townie that dies by WoG makes their job easier.
Challenges do far:
1. GeneralHankerchief vs. FactionHeir
2. Motep vs. GeneralHankerchief
3. Andres vs. GeneralHankerchief
4. Eliit Tuhkur vs. GeneralHankerchief
seireikhaan
08-13-2008, 17:34
I can only act on what I know. If a powertown wants to avoid my gaze, and maintain his hidden status, he better not act "scummy." Because in the meantime I have Jotun to lynch and I will ferret them out using the ways I know.
PK, there's a very good reason a pro-town role would want lynch attention. If a power role can ensure he's getting a few votes, perhaps getting very close to being lynched, then the mafia will usually leave him quite alone, giving him plenty of night phases to use their ability.
Good points. But "Holmganging for the hell of it" is still bad for the town and will help the Jotun.
Not particularly. What's bad for the town is when other townies start mercilessly attacking their own just because that one happens to be bored of being a townie and is acting out a bit. All this last 4 or so pages has been is an extremely lovely distraction for the Jotun to hide behind. Congratulations.
All this last 4 or so pages has been is an extremely lovely distraction for the Jotun to hide behind.
:yes:
I would personally love to move this discussion to something else useful, but it has so dominated this thread for the last several pages that I have honestly forgotten a lot of stuff that I might have been considering before. The challenges have been made and a Holmgang will occur. Let's leave it at that.
Until then, it would be far more useful if people could start looking for further evidence and irregularities in places we haven't examined in much detail yet.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 17:40
PK, there's a very good reason a pro-town role would want lynch attention. If a power role can ensure he's getting a few votes, perhaps getting very close to being lynched, then the mafia will usually leave him quite alone, giving him plenty of night phases to use their ability.
I didn't think of that. :embarassed:
But how am I to know the difference? If I see suspicious behavior, how do I know it is scumminess or powertown hiding in scumminess? And if I ignore suspicious behavior, what else should I use to base my lynch choice off of?
Not particularly. What's bad for the town is when other townies start mercilessly attacking their own just because that one happens to be bored of being a townie and is acting out a bit. All this last 4 or so pages has been is an extremely lovely distraction for the Jotun to hide behind. Congratulations.
At least we're not approaching anything close to the Reenk/Ichigo argument in Midgard 1 but your point is well taken. :bow:
At least we're not approaching anything close to the Reenk/Ichigo argument in Midgard 1 but your point is well taken. :bow:
:shame:
Warmaster Horus
08-13-2008, 17:43
Of course, there's always the possibility PK, GH and Andres are Jotun, or only one or two of them are. Fuelling their discussion would have been perfect for them.
Holy cow though! 680 posts, 23 pages and the third night hasn't even gone by...
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 17:54
I think we can pretty much rule out both Andres and GH being Jotun, otherwise Andres challenge of GH would be suicidal, or a calculated risk they wouldn't get picked, im doubting it though...
I think theres a good point there though, we should be careful of people leading the discussions, often in mafia games the ones leading everyone in the thread are simply the mafia leading everyone to thier deaths
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 17:58
I think theres a good point there though, we should be careful of people leading the discussions, often in mafia games the ones leading everyone in the thread are simply the mafia leading everyone to thier deaths
Which unfortunately leads to everyone being quiet. Which does not help the town... :no:
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 18:03
Which unfortunately leads to everyone being quiet. Which does not help the town... :no:
Of course sometimes the mafia sit back quietly and pick everyone off, maybe theres a happy medium to be found... or maybe you can't judge too much on posting levels...
Of course sometimes the mafia sit back quietly and pick everyone off, maybe theres a happy medium to be found... or maybe you can't judge too much on posting levels...
Posting levels are perfectly legitimate methods of judging people. The key is not how much someone is contributing, but whether their contributions are abnormal in comparison to their behavior in previous games. Unfortunately, this does not help the current situation very much, because all of the 'discussion leaders' in this particular 'debate' are... verbose... individuals. The only exception to this, as I understand it, is Motep, but he may only be unusually chatty because he's had his neck on the line for a good while now.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 18:27
Unfortunately, this does not help the current situation very much, because all of the 'discussion leaders' in this particular 'debate' are... verbose... individuals.
:saint:
Quintus.JC
08-13-2008, 18:35
Mmm... a bit bored. I declare challenge on whomever the next poster is.
Seamus Fermanagh
08-13-2008, 18:39
Challenges do far:
1. GeneralHankerchief vs. FactionHeir
2. Motep vs. GeneralHankerchief
3. Andres vs. GeneralHankerchief
4. Eliit Tuhkur vs. GeneralHankerchief
Setting aside the "does holmgang work as a townie tactic" discussion, the above list of potential fights has wonderful narrative possibilities. I hope Sigurd revels in it.
Edit: That's what I get for replying to a page 17 post without reading page 18. I won't hold you to it, QIC, but if you must let us at least use axes...or just fists.
Quintus.JC
08-13-2008, 18:42
Challenge: Seamus Fermanagh
edit: Am I allowed to do this for no reason?
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 18:43
Aw, dude... you just ruined everything.
-edit- Why is it I seem to always get the post at the top of the page?
Yes, now the hanky might not fight. Crying shame, that.
And, unfortuanately, my normal tactic in being relatively quite has been ruined by the many swords pointing at my neck.
ROFL. I bet QJC and Seamus end up in the Holmgang. :laugh2:
LittleGrizzly
08-13-2008, 18:50
ROFL. I bet QJC and Seamus end up in the Holmgang. :laugh2:
that would be hysterical, i wasn't sure if QJC was making a point or being serious... i guess this answers my question...
Warmaster Horus
08-13-2008, 18:52
Me too. And I can bet that GH will challenge semi-randomly, and almost the same discussion about holmganging will happen in about 26 hours.
I don't even know how to respond to this latest development. If QJC is a townie, he just screwed up what was a reasonably acceptable Holmgang situation for the town. If he's Jotun, he's risking making himself look unbelievably guilty if his challenge is chosen and he wins. I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for the latter, though deep down I suspect it is the former.
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 18:56
Me too. And I can bet that GH will challenge semi-randomly, and almost the same discussion about holmganging will happen in about 26 hours.
Nah, if this scenario plays out I'll be lynched for "unhelpfulness" (which is another word for "we know he's not Jotun, but we're too lazy to actually do the hard work and diversify our targets") before I get the chance.
Challenge: Seamus Fermanagh
edit: Am I allowed to do this for no reason?
You can. I believe Sigurd will take care of the write-up if your challenge gets pick.
Do note that your challenge and/or reasoning might piss a few people, and garner attention probably similar to GH's
edit: talk about slow typing, 7 responses already before I can post a reply to QJC's... :turtle:
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 19:02
Although to be fair, Seamus is high on my list for potential Jotun suspects and will probably get my vote if I live through the night.
Although to be fair, Seamus is high on my list for potential Jotun suspects and will probably get my vote if I live through the night.
Please elaborate. I remember seeing some questioning of him before, but it has since been buried. It would be nice to get a fresh discussion going, so a rehash would be welcome.
Quintus.JC
08-13-2008, 19:10
:oops:
Try to look on the bright side... if there are any. :embarassed:
discovery1
08-13-2008, 19:20
The thing is, if his champion won't be online, we risk losing Motep, not the lazy champion.
Oh, and I didn't challenge GH at random. If he survives the Holmgang and unless better evidence pops up, I will insist on lynching him, because I believe he's scum. Surely, you read my case against him, so I don't like how you call me challenging GH "shooting at random directions." :inquisitive:
I don't you have to worry too much about the champion not being online, although Motep may well have a better Holmgang rating so don't expect the champ to be in on this one.
And yeah I agree that GH is being suspicious. He argued that he should be killed off based on how much suspicion he has drawn, but I am unconvinced. Why not just suicide?
Edit:
Pfft. No proper Norseman kills himself. It is the epitome of dishonor and shame.
Don't buy it.
Challenges submitted thus far:
1. GeneralHankerchief vs. FactionHeir
2. Motep vs. GeneralHankerchief
3. Andres vs. GeneralHankerchief
4. Eliit Tuhkur vs. GeneralHankerchief
5. Quintus.J.Cicero vs. Seamus Fermanagh
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 19:53
Nah, if this scenario plays out I'll be lynched for "unhelpfulness" (which is another word for "we know he's not Jotun, but we're too lazy to actually do the hard work and diversify our targets") before I get the chance.
Yet you do little to "diversify our targets"... :inquisitive:
------------- Night time ended --------------
No more PMs will be accepted (yeah.. the messages not the condition :wiseguy:).
Writeups will soon be posted.
FactionHeir
08-13-2008, 21:07
Eh what does that mean "the condition"?
Craterus
08-13-2008, 21:13
No more PM's.
not
No more PMS :sad:
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 21:13
Eh what does that mean "the condition"?
This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premenstrual_syndrome)
:laugh4:
This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premenstrual_syndrome)
:laugh4:
Sounds like my cousin...'cept shes like that all of time
FactionHeir
08-13-2008, 21:34
:gah2: the Craterus thing :laugh4: Totally forgot about that.
Round 3
The Danes weren’t quite happy over letting a Jorvik man take the blame for murdering one of their men. But they were satisfied that his origin appeared to be Norwegian.
They started dispersing and passed a few men from Sveariket who laughed at something. The already angered Danes wanted more blood and started shouting at the laughing men. But the retinues of the other kingdoms were getting tiered of the whining of what sounded wet nursed babies. A few of the Rus got in between the Danes and and the Swedes and there were a little shoving and pushing. One of the Swedes, GeneralHankerchief had a hand touch him one too many times than he tolerated and blurted out: “You son of a female dog, I shall cut your manhood off and feed it to your mother.” The Rus who took this personally, responded: “I shall ram my fist up where the sun doesn’t shine, you lover of men and pigs”. FactionHeir was seemingly agitated. GeneralH responded with a fist well placed on FactionHeir’s jaw who toppled backwards.
But he was soon back on his feet with an axe in hand. “I am of the Rus and we kill the likes of you yellow man lovers before breaking our fast. Show that you have a pair.” GeneralH shouted to his companions for an axe. “Let’s show these half-bears who is masters with the axe”. FactionHeir rushed forward with the well known and proved Varangian cut that had surprised many foreign warriors and left them to rot on the battlefield. GeneralH knew this manoeuvre well and its counter. He dived into the attack and barely slipped under the axe blade before doing a backward thrust as he went under the arms of FactionHeir. The blade of the axe hit where intended and made a deep gash in FactionHeir’s armpit. FactionHeir howled in pain and swung round with a deadly onehander trying to open GeneralH’s bowels. GeneralH jumped back just in time and the powerful swing that found no target put FactionHeir out of balance and exposed his side. GeneralHankerchief swung his axe downwards and nearly severed FactionHeir’s thigh. FactionHeir dropped his axe from the pain in his thigh and GeneralH finished the match by opening FactionHeir’s scull from his forehead to the throat.
In one fraction of a second FactionHeir could feel the surging flash of pain in his forehead, and then oblivion.
The law speaker rushed to the scene but too late. “I take it you had a quarrel with this man?” The Swede called GeneralHankerchief answered: “Not really, He just pissed me off and I have been cooped up in this place too long. I needed some exercise.” The Swedes around him laughed.” The law speaker turned around shaking his head; “Damned be the Norse.”
As the entourages went back to their camps and settled down, a short man was seen skulking around the Rus camp. The Rus were a little upset that one of their own, all though not too well known by any of them, but still a Rus had been brutally cut down like that, and for nothing. Rythmic was especially displeased and contemplated what to do. That fight could hardly be counted as Holmgang and hence the rules of feuds would not apply. He took a slurp of the fine wine he had brought from Constantinople, where he had been just before coming here to this God forsaken island of lava and hot springs. This really looked like the Gehenna he had read about. Maybe this was the place where demons lived. He scanned the horizon looking for movement, but saw none. He suddenly felt exceptionally tired and found his tent where he lay down on his bedroll. Tiredness overcame him and he felt the darkness surround him.
He floated in darkness and was surprised that he was aware of this. This was a strange dream he thought. A pinprick of light appeared in the darkness and he felt curiously attracted to it. As he felt the desire to be where the light were, there were a rush and with an immense speed, he moved towards it. The light grew bigger and bigger and more bright as he neared. Suddenly he was somewhere … safe? He hears a male voice: “Well, Foresters are a dime a dozen here, we have never had a lawyer before”, then laughter.
What was this place?
Killed: (3)
Twilightblade (R1)
Caius (R2)
Rythmic (R3)
Killed by Holmgang: (2)
makaikhaan (R1)
FactionHeir (R2)
Lynched: (2)
CountArach (R1)
Tratorix (R2)
Living: (29)
Andres
Craterus
Crazed Rabbit
discovery1
El Diablo
Eliit Tuhkur
Fenring
Gaius Scribonius Curio
GeneralHankerchief
glyphz
Husar
Ichigo
Kagemusha
Kukrikhan
LittleGrizzly
Motep
Omanes Alexandrapolites
pevergreen
Privateerkev
Proletariat
Quintus.J.Cicero
Sarathos
scottishranger
Seamus Fermanagh
shlin28
TevashSzat
TinCow
Warmaster Horus
woad&fangs
********
Commence voting players. Be mindful of the deadline at 2000 GMT Thursday 14th of August.
No more PM's.
not
No more PMS :sad:
the 's is genitive and the added s to a word is plural. Or is this not so? :stare:
yes but when you are using an abbreviation it is best to put the letters you are using in capitals or someone may think that the s is part of the abbreviation :wink:
FactionHeir rushed forward with the well known and proved Varangian cut that had surprised many foreign warriors and left them to rot on the battlefield. GeneralH knew this manoeuvre well and its counter.
Sounds to me like neither FH or GH were townies. Looks like War Vets or above. Didn't GH claim to be just a lowly townie?
GH claimed he had a War Veteran like role with a Holmgang Ability of 4.
woad&fangs
08-13-2008, 22:22
He claimed to have a holmgang score of 4 which is what about what a warvet would have.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 22:23
vote: glyphz
(A man walks by and stops nearby your back, and whispers indirectly...)
"You seem to be very intent on attempting to expose the Jotun, albeit a tad too aggressive. You've placed your self in an unenviable position of either, being framed by the Jotun or be the next victim, to frame those you've bumped shoulders with. Unless, of course, your Jotun yourself...:sneaky:
Nothing that can be considered promising has come out of the last 2 days, and depending on who gets killed tonight... and no doubt there will be, murder or Holmgang, the town's chance of weathering this storm only grows more slim.
So, answer me this... How many kills do you think there will be this night? Depending on your answer, I just might offer some contribution to your cause. Obviously, my offer only stands whether you or I live by the end of this night. But I'm not too concerned about my chances...
You can, of course, refuse my offer, but that would be just silly. Expose this conversation and... let's just say again that you'll only be hurting this town's chances. I'm not too concerned.
Oh, and as a consolation... In case you accept my proposal, but get Jotun-smashed, you might want to give me a name (along with the answer to my question), one that you trust and believe will continue your efforts at least, to whom I will offer the same proposal.
Time's awastin'
What say you?
I have absolutely no idea how many kills there will be.
In Midgard 1, there were 2 a night. So far, there has been 1 each. It is possible there is some sort of role that "blocks" people from doing night actions. Or, people are not getting their night orders in.
Your offer confuses me. You ask me to tell you something I can not possibly know for sure and then you claim you might offer something.
If you are pro-town, then simply help.
I am no Jotun. As for being killed by them, I do not mind. I am of no consequence so if the Jotun kill me, then at least they are not killing someone more important to the town. Plus, killing me will prove to everyone that I am innocent and you've seen how tenacious I can be. :beam:
I wonder what your game is. As for another name, you won't get it from me until I get some reassurance that your not Jotun.
Kevin
Simply help? Now that would be just boring... 'Game?' What game? Although, I must say I like 'em.
Do you think all gods, 'pro-town' included, generally cares for you mortals? *smirks*
One should be considered 'graced' to have a god intervene in their lives once.
Two? And you show the same arrogance you are accused of by others.
You say your death would mean little, but you actively, too actively or should I say tenaciously, argue among others to expose the Jotun, and at the risk of others revealing their roles to prove their innocence.
Anyway, you should already have a clue to as who I am, especially if you've done research as you've claimed.
I want the Jotun defeated. I can do that alive or dead. So yes, my life is really of no consequence. I can help a little more alive than dead because only the alive can vote. But if I die, I will still carry on the fight against the Jotun.
As for others having to reveal, that was regrettable but it happens. They made mistakes. And me, as well as many others, caught on to those mistakes. Those mistakes should be minimized but they can never be eliminated until everyone knows who the other is.
So now you've picked me to play your games on. You have given me zero reasons to believe you. So unless you have something more constructive to say, I will bid you good day sir.
And I know exactly who you are hinting at with regards to your identity. If I recall, that did not end well for the town in Midgard 1. Keep in mind that while I am of no consequence, I have the ear of many who are...
Good. That makes things slightly easier. (I had the feeling I should have picked a more easy-going mortal. But Nooooooo..... *having a little fun role-playing*:jester:)
Your suspicions are noted, as I am forever labeled as a not-so trustworthy, according to the tales that reach the mortal realm. (Like flies on cattle dung) It didn't help that I never had a decent PR agent/historian.
But have you considered this?
That the Loki (objectives, stats, allegiance possiblities, abilities ) in the past storyline is the exact same as the one in front of you? (The same goes to the person behind the role:rolleyes:? )
I believe you are sticking too much to what you've research (and the role of the past Loki).
And I believe that you've considered at least the possibility of some changes between the past and present reincarnations of this story.
I'd show you my rolePM but, to reveal it right away is at least very unbecoming of me.
Note, that I'm also taking a risk myself, as I'd prefer not to meet any of my brethren, both parent-sides (also why I chose you) as they've proven to be both a pain to my side:ballchain:. I prefer to indulge in good mead :medievalcheers:and in the company of comely lasses. I believe you can vouch for that too. Hmm?
Looks like we found Loki. In Midgard 1, he led the town on a merry wild goose chase and distracted them. That distraction allowed Stig and Alexander to sneak under the radar and win the game.
I say lynch him...
Keep in mind Loki's role PM (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1438736&postcount=1569) in Midgard 1...
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 22:37
I wanted to be Loki :cry:
Oh, and for what it's worth:
Holmgang #2
Due to your success in killing FactionHeir in Holmgang, your duel score has been increased by 1 point.
It is now 5
Vote: Seamus
For that one post where he really screwed up the Holmgang scores. It seems like everything is up a point from before but Seamus still claimed that his matched Midgard I's matrix.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 22:42
I wanted to be Loki :cry:
For what it's worth, earlier today I suspected you were Loki. :laugh4:
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 22:47
I notice that there was no Valkyrie waiting for FH.
-edit- Again at the top of the page!
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 22:51
I notice that there was no Valkyrie waiting for FH.
-edit- Again at the top of the page!
Townies didn't get Valhalla. Only warriors. Jotun went somewhere else. Townies simply went to black.
But where did Rythmic go when he died? :dizzy2:
woad&fangs
08-13-2008, 22:51
It also said the other Rus didn't know him very well. However, it didn't seem like a bad place. If I remember my norse mythology correctly, there are several worlds. I think he was from the dwarven world because dwarves like axes and lumberjacks like axes. <--Stupid logic but I don't really care
edit: sorry I think I was getting FH and Rythmic confused. I think FH was just a townie(didn't say where he went to after death and GH womped him pretty soundly.) Rythmic is the one who I think is a dwarf.
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 22:53
And yet, Sigurd made specific mention of FH using a certain move as a battlefield tactic.
And yet, Sigurd made specific mention of FH using a certain move as a battlefield tactic.
I suspect FactionHeir was a peasant whose grandfather taught him a move or two.
Rythmic, well dwarf would make sense since we had a dwarf poison people in the previous night kills but that would then mean the dwarven serial killer was the only one killing in night one and two so I suspect he had some special role or he took a shortcut to valhalla without a, erm, those blonde things, valkyrie.
Spread the word. :horn: Hide your daughters and your money! Ol' clever, yours truly, has been sighted amongst you. And reserve a page or so of posts.
My defense? "The real truth is... .... ... I am Loki."
Yes I believe a few of you would like a personal meeting, too. You know where you'll find me.
Want to settle a dispute? Turn around, close your eyes and bend over.
(That aside, I'm disappointed that my first attempt at a private mafia diplomacy blew up right at my face. "Killjoy! Killjoy I say!!!:jester:")
Tactless -1 diplomacy; next time I'll work on my charm:date:
FactionHeir
08-13-2008, 23:15
As Tratorix can confirm to you (private reveal), I was a mere townie ~:)
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 23:16
Spread the word. :horn: Hide your daughters and your money! Ol' clever, yours truly, has been sighted amongst you. And reserve a page or so of posts.
My defense? "The real truth is... .... ... I am Loki."
Yes I believe a few of you would like a personal meeting, too. You know where you'll find me.
Want to settle a dispute? Turn around, close your eyes and bend over.
(That aside, I'm disappointed that my first attempt at a private mafia diplomacy blew up right at my face. "Killjoy! Killjoy I say!!!:jester:")
Tactless -1 diplomacy; next time I'll work on my charm:date:
welcome to mafia... :laugh4:
Always assume your PM's are being saved, cataloged, passed around, and will be used against you.
:beam:
My defense? "The real truth is... .... ... I am Loki."
Mind telling us what your objectives are and what you've been manipulating behind the scenes before we string you up?
I'm not sure a public reveal was a good idea PK, he could have chosen to side with the town...and he could be powerful.
discovery1
08-13-2008, 23:23
Vote: GH
Since I find his behavior very suspicious. Claiming to want to get himself killed in a fight since he's in to hot a spot and refusing to suicide? No way.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 23:24
I'm not sure a public reveal was a good idea PK, he could have chosen to side with the town...and he could be powerful.
You can't trust roles that flip. Ever. His job is to confuse us. If we simply kill him, and then ignore him, he can't confuse us. :beam:
He'll still confuse me, I don't need any budging for that to happen :clown:
I've heard a fair few people vouch for Motep's innocence now, is there something I'm misiing?
woad&fangs
08-13-2008, 23:31
It seems like he really wants to side with the town. I say we let the Loki live.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 23:35
It seems like he really wants to side with the town. I say we let the Loki live.
We'll never know for sure if he joined. Oh he'll say he joined. He'll say anything to foster doubt and chaos. He'll probably produce a heavily edited role pm. He'll tell us he really wants to join us. But he'll say he can't because some humans here have been so mean to him. And he'll demand their heads on a pike before he joins. But, he'll really be Jotun.
This has all happened before. I don't want to take the chance. I see absolutely no reason to let him live.
(to TinCow's inquiries)
Jeez.. Hostile already?
And as far as I know, I am labeled under the category "Pro-town roles" (with an asterisk).
Behind the scenes?
Well, so far, as I have privately mentioned to Pkev:rolleyes:, that I've been having a blast in the inns. And watching you mortals endlessly have a go at each other. Yes, most entertaining.
Oh, and the occasional gossip. You should hear this joke from this chap on what happened when ol' Heim-my crossed the road. Madness, I say!
...
And the little issue with CA (whoever he really is, bless his soul), my vote to be specific, just plain irony.
... (noticed no one laughing...)
Hmph! Well, any more questions?
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 23:41
Vote: GH
Since I find his behavior very suspicious. Claiming to want to get himself killed in a fight since he's in to hot a spot and refusing to suicide? No way.
Actually, I've wanted to die in a Holmgang since Round 1. Not just since last night.
It seems like he really wants to side with the town. I say we let the Loki live.
I'll let him live... if he provides such a convincing argument that he's the town's super-ultimate-uber-best friend that I shout "Halleluja," before breaking down in tears at the sheer joy of being in his presense. Short of that, he's a potential Jotun.
seireikhaan
08-13-2008, 23:43
HUGE UBER GIGANTIC MEGA-FOS: woad&fangs. Let Loki live? Because he seems to want to be on the town's side? Hah, don't make me laugh, you should know better than proposing such a ludicrous idea. I take it then, that you've forgotten TinCow's little stunt in Netherworld where he was so obviously wanting to be on the town's side? Bah. Lynch Glyphz, then woad&fangs.
We'll never know for sure if he joined. Oh he'll say he joined. He'll say anything to foster doubt and chaos. He'll probably produce a heavily edited role pm. He'll tell us he really wants to join us. But he'll say he can't because some humans here have been so mean to him. And he'll demand their heads on a pike before he joins. But, he'll really be Jotun.
This has all happened before. I don't want to take the chance. I see absolutely no reason to let him live.
But when he joined the Jotun the Jotun king got a PM saying that he has joined, maybe one of the God's will get a PM if he joins us?
But anyway he hasn't said he will and could well mash up the town so.......
crap pressed I instead of B.
unvote:Motep
vote:glyphz
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 23:44
Nah, let Loki live through one lynch period.
Maybe there's a chance Heimdall will come out and then we'll get a super-awesome Holmgang like Reenk/Seamus did in Midgard I.
seireikhaan
08-13-2008, 23:45
I'll let him live... if he provides such a convincing argument that he's the town's super-ultimate-uber-best friend that I shout "Halleluja," before breaking down in tears at the sheer joy of being in his presense. Short of that, he's a potential Jotun.
You mean like you were "the town's super-ultimate-uber-best friend that I shout "Halleluja," before breaking down in tears at the sheer joy of being in his presense" in Netherworld? :smash:
discovery1
08-13-2008, 23:46
There is a lack of panic and commotion in this thread so I give you the Ghostbusters (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCHFVTQKqdQ)
And yeah don't trust loki. Don't lynch him just yet, maybe, but don't trust him either
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 23:46
Since I find his behavior very suspicious. Claiming to want to get himself killed in a fight since he's in to hot a spot and refusing to suicide? No way.
I would call GH a "bad townie" for his rampant unfettered Holmganging but I doubt he is Jotun. At worse, I thought he was Loki but that role has now clearly been claimed.
Glyphz is a much better lynch today than GH.
Nah, let Loki live through one lynch period.
Maybe there's a chance Heimdall will come out and then we'll get a super-awesome Holmgang like Reenk/Seamus did in Midgard I.
But that would cause Heimdall, if he is in this game, to reveal himself... :brood:
We have the chance to lynch him and we should take it. If the role is the same, he is at the very least a possible Jotun.
You mean like you were "the town's super-ultimate-uber-best friend that I shout "Halleluja," before breaking down in tears at the sheer joy of being in his presense" in Netherworld? :smash:
Trust me, my own exploits in Netherworld are what makes it pretty much impossible for me to ever trust a role that can side with town or mafia at will. Though for the record, I would like to point out that I never had that choice in Netherworld. Serial Killer is as Serial Killer does.
GeneralHankerchief
08-13-2008, 23:54
Heimdall can fend for himself. Having read Midgard I, you should know that.
Plus, it would actually utilize the Holmgang system for good. Isn't that what you've been advocating for about the past 20 pages?
discovery1
08-13-2008, 23:56
I would call GH a "bad townie" for his rampant unfettered Holmganging but I doubt he is Jotun. At worse, I thought he was Loki but that role has now clearly been claimed.
Glyphz is a much better lynch today than GH.
I don't know. For all we know G is taking a piss, which I suppose is what loki does. Sure if it's not an appointed role he's being a terrible townie but still.
Privateerkev
08-13-2008, 23:58
Heimdall can fend for himself. Having read Midgard I, you should know that.
Plus, it would actually utilize the Holmgang system for good. Isn't that what you've been advocating for about the past 20 pages?
Heimdall also lost his night actions when he revealed. Having played Midgard 1, you should know that.
seireikhaan
08-13-2008, 23:59
Trust me, my own exploits in Netherworld are what makes it pretty much impossible for me to ever trust a role that can side with town or mafia at will. Though for the record, I would like to point out that I never had that choice in Netherworld. Serial Killer is as Serial Killer does.
Indeedly, I still can't believe you got the town to trust someone who's role was Hades.:laugh4: And now they're considering trusting someone who's role is Loki? :no:
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