The Godfather, Part 3 [Concluded]

[seireikhaan]

Wow.
What? Eh, nevermind, figured it out. Make sure you send Pizzaguy a cake.

Also. Vote: Beefy

[taka]

Wow.

2000th posts! congrats GH for hosting such an excellent game!

[Reenk Roink]

Wow.

gg no re

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think it's possible. I still don't understand why he pointed the finger at YLC after he cleared him.

Lord Winter may or may not have been guilty, but I do think either Tevash or Lord Winter was a scum, due to the consistent one-murders and the lack of henchmen in the late game. I seriously doubt White_eyes was a scum.

I think...

Reenk Roink: Godfather
Sasaki Kojiro: Henchman
I am undecided on Lord Winter and Tevash as the final henchman. Shlin must have been investigated and would have turned up scum if so, so he's innocent.

It's POSSIBLE Tevash was the detective. I still contend he would have tried to help us. I know I would have. To each his own.

I believe Ares or Seamus was the Nude unicyclist. Ares claimed he might have had some role. Seireikhaan may have been a mason of some kind, or an investigator or something, or maybe just a role fisherman.

I think the Godfather may have had the ability to investigate the townies and find the masons. That is why the vigilante or the masons got murdered. But that's just a theory. I tend to discount completely the recruitment idea now as less likely, but still plausible.

And I am keeping my vote on Reenk, in spite of the futility of it. You'll have to drag me kicking and screaming to Beefy's body, and if he turns out to be the Godfather, it will be the funniest thing that has ever happened to me in the entirety of my life. My brain will explode, and the entire town can dance on my carcass.

I'll even order the beer and the pizza, and play whatever music Reenk Roink desires.

In fact, no matter how this game ends, I will personally find it to be the most hilarious thing that has happened in a long, long time.

I cannot wait! This is going to be so awesome! :laugh4:

Even funnier is if it were Andres... I will lose bladder control over that one. But my bet is still on Reenk.


Quick: Beefy, Taka... switch your vote to Beefy!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Congratulations on the 2k mark GH -- you have hosted wonderfully and it has been a great bit of fun.

Of the two, I shall Vote: 187Beefyz.

All 4 of our finalists have played the game well -- and we shall see what we shall see.

[Reenk Roink]

Play this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8j9ag_FnSE)

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll play whatever you want, big fella. You either royally kicked the town's butt or mine, and congratulations sir. This is epic.


:bow:

I bow to your greatness.


*places SkyNet inside the incinerator and prepares to press the big red button in anticipation*

[Beefy187]

Vote: Beefy187

Hey Japan...you just got GIRAFFED.

Pretty sure its Zebra and a half :sweatdrop:

Stuff it. If I'm going then I wanna go big.

Unvote: Reenk, Vote: Beefy

Lit the bonfire! Chuck me in the flames! Its Beef Fiesta for everyone!

[Reenk Roink]

I bow to Beefy's greatness :bow:

[Beefy187]

And I take the 2009th posts. May this be a great year for all of us :2thumbsup:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Tally

Beefy: 12 (Reenk Roink, Gaius, Quintus.JC, Sasaki, Psychonaut, Jolt, Lord Winter, TinCow, pevergreen, seireikhaan, Seamus Fermanagh, Beefy187)
Reenk Roink: 2 (Askthepizzaguy, Taka)

:laugh4: Just you and me now, Taka. You better flee this sinking ship now.

The captain always goes down with the ship. Just let me sink in peace. :bow:

[taka]

i'll jump over only if i get a portion of kobe beefy ramen :D

[Askthepizzaguy]

Do it! Do it! :smash:

Everyone gets a piece of Beefy! There's plenty to go around.

[Lord Winter]

I'm still getting this strange feeling that we're getting it wrong. Reenk I'm sure is innocent but I would not be surprised to log on tomorrow and find out that Taka was the GF. Whoever it is, fantastic end round choices. None of them can be dismissed out of hand.

[Beefy187]

i'll jump over only if i get a portion of kobe beefy ramen :D

Kobe Beefy ramen? Blasphemy!! Be satisfied with Matsuzaka Beefy raman:yes:

Even I never had those expensive ones before.. The best I ever had was crab ramen :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Last thoughts of the captain of the R.M.S. Beefys Innocence:

Actually, all I really wanted was a better case against Beefy. I didn't think there was a very good one.

I've been at this for... what... a half a year or so? I've had some fantastic failures under my belt as a townie, and I can't claim even much credit for any game I've been a townie in for a win. I've gotten a scum or two in my time, but I've always managed to throw a wrench into things as well.

The collective experience of the entire town, many of you veterans for 3 years or more, who have played this game for a long, long time... your experience is greater than any database I've put together, and indeed, my meager experiences. I think Beefy deserved a good defense, and Reenk did deserve scrutiny. I have no idea how the game is going to turn out, but even considering how wrong I probably am, (tallying up all the experience going against what I put together, it's not a good look) I think some of what I was trying to do had to be done.

I wanted to challenge the established order. That's not an atypical thing for a headstrong rebel to do. I was willing to look like the bad guy in order to shake down the suspects. I also got a lot of fun out of playing the inquisitor.

At this point, my heart just isn't in it anymore to defend Beefster, but I'm keeping my vote on Reenk to honour Beefy's very cool play, which if he were a mafia, completely fooled me, and to challenge Reenk's risky play at the end. In the end, I am not so stubborn as to think I have things all figured out. I stuck my neck out there to get it chopped off on purpose, to see what would happen; to see how the mafia would react.

If I defer to the collective combined wisdom and experience of the town, I'd have to vote Beefy, too. But by now most of you know me... I like to color outside the lines, and challenge everything I don't understand. I may be a slow student, but I am actually a good one, and I do learn when I am wrong about stuff.

It's BETTER for town if I were wrong, so I am, as a townie, hoping I am wrong. :bow:

Play this song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEVvc3cZp08&feature=related) for me.... just once... the captain is dead.

Rejoice now, townies... Rejoice! I shall serve thee... beer and cookies... for no matter what the outcome, I still failed you.

:medievalcheers: And yet I smile on this game, as it has brought me many a smile and a laugh. And the winners deserve their win.

[seireikhaan]

Play this song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEVvc3cZp08&feature=related) for me.... just once... the captain is dead.
Personally, I think this would be best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXVaGbSYyFI&feature=related

[glyphz]

There seems to be a great demand for premium live Beef, and I want part of it.:smash:

Vote: Beefy187

That makes 13





:edit: even if possible henchmen are also voting Beefy, w/c could mean Beefy's innocent.

Ah well...:shrug:

[Askthepizzaguy]

:smile:

I had an odd thought;

I know that I am not a henchman. Taka also cannot be a henchman, because the game would have been over. If Beefy were the Godfather, who were his henchmen? And they aren't even making a stab at saving beefy's life? Interesting. Who is silent on this matter? There, you will find the henchmen. I am actually kind of sad they don't join me and Taka on the sinking ship, so at least I know who I had spent all that time unwittingly helping if I was wrong. After so many posts, and hours, and analyses... I am only more stumped now than before. How deliciously ironic. You have no reason to fear a repeat of this one... what's the point? :laugh2: I'm so confused.

When it comes right down to it, will there only be townies defending Beefy? How strange. Very odd indeed. Those silent people...


Reenk Roink, Gaius, Quintus.JC, Sasaki, Psychonaut, Jolt, Lord Winter, TinCow, pevergreen, seireikhaan, Seamus Fermanagh, Beefy187, glyphz

I see that shlin28 and Tevash haven't posted their vote, but then again a number of people haven't. Guess I am just along for the ride.

I won't leave the ship unless Taka leaves, and he's not budging, last I heard.

[Beefy187]

White_eyes were obviously one of the grunts which we know from the write up.

[TinCow]

White_eyes were obviously one of the grunts which we know from the write up.

If this is true, it just proves that Reenk is innocent. Reenk voted for W_E and W_E voted for Reenk. The vote was too close for the mafia to risk such a tactic as a bluff. In that situation, they could have won right then and there if both W_E and Reenk had switched their votes to Andres or Quintus at the last moment.

[Andres]

Vote : Beefy187

[Csargo]

I think it's Andres so I'm not voting. :)

[Andres]

I think it's Andres so I'm not voting. :)

If it would be me or taka then GH would be very, very evil...

Which he isn't, is he?

Hmmm...

[Quintus.JC]

No worries. I would've done the same if I was in your position.

@ Quintus: Wrong thread :smash:

Yeah I noticed :shame:

Sorry GH (and the gameroom mods), I was in such a hurry last night I just clicked on the last post from the summary thread, skimmed through the post and voted... in the wrong place. :wall:


If I'm going to be hanged, can I have a huge Beef steak fest please? :beam:

You should be fed the Beef steaks till your stomach explodes, that would make a nice execution method.

And it better not be Andres or Taka! :stare:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Beefy187: 14 (Reenk Roink, Gaius, Quintus.JC, Sasaki, Psychonaut, Jolt, Lord Winter, TinCow, pevergreen, seireikhaan, Seamus Fermanagh, Beefy187, glyphz, Andres)

Reenk Roink: 2 (Askthepizzaguy, Taka)


:titanic:



White_eyes were obviously one of the grunts which we know from the write up.

I didn't think the writeups were conclusive proof of anything. If this is the case, well done White_eyes! And well done town for lynching him good.

Kind of reminds me... why isn't he here voting? Maybe he gave up. That seems a little silly to me. If Taka and I were blinded by the "nice guy mafia", then Beefy and his two henchmen should have all voted for Reenk Roink. That would have been 5 votes for Reenk, and at least one less vote for Beefy. Still not close, but you'd almost think they would bank on my stubborn persistence to get people to vote for Reenk, which would keep them in the game.

Darn you, mafia! If I never gave up, why should you? :clown: I demand payment for my services as your lawyer. If you think regular lawyers are expensive, try hiring a dead guy. You will have to pay me in fingers and teeth.

That reminds me: I'd like to reveal right now that I had a role.

I was the mob lawyer. I turn up innocent in investigations, and my lack of a role PM was simply a clever ploy by GeneralHankerchief to throw me off. He was trying to fool me. But I figured it out. Want to know how?Ok I will tell you. I used SkyNet on myself, to make sure I was a townie.As it turns out, my behavior registered as scum.That's how I knew. You can't fool me, General!I deduced that I was the Scum Lawyer, a totally naive townie bent on defending the mafia no matter what.It's the only thing that makes sense AND doesn't make me look like a :jester:I'm really, really clever. Yeah, that's the ticket!Or maybe I am just a foolish townie all along. Occam's razor suggests that's the simplest solution. And if so, I'm looking for my dunce cap.

:clown:

[shlin28]

Vote: Beefy :book:

More importantly...

I won't be online to read the final write-up! ~:mecry:

[White_eyes:D]

If this is true, it just proves that Reenk is the BALLSYEST GODFATHER EVER. Reenk voted for W_E and W_E voted for Reenk. The vote was too close for the mafia to risk such a tactic as a bluff. In that situation, they could have won right then and there if both W_E and Reenk had switched their votes to Andres or Quintus at the last moment.

I just had to break my silence on this.....GOOD GAME REENK!!!!:2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup:

Oh....Vote:Beefy:grin2: only Reenk could throw both his grunts under the bus and still win....:no:

Edit:I may replace my Sig with the above....you mind TinCow???

[pevergreen]

Its 3:30 am so Im guessing I may be wrong, but did he just admit that Reenk was the GF?

He could be joking, but...

Unvote: beefy, VoteL Reenk

[White_eyes:D]

Its 3:30 am so Im guessing I may be wrong, but did he just admit that Reenk was the GF?

He could be joking, but...

Unvote: beefy, VoteL Reenk

The round ends soon.....face it town....you lost:bow: GG~:cheers:

[TinCow]

Its 3:30 am so Im guessing I may be wrong, but did he just admit that Reenk was the GF?

The way I read it, WE is making a desperate last attempt to win by trying to get a massive vote shift towards Reenk. If WE really was Reenk's grunt, he would just vote for Reenk to make Beefy look scummier. Revealing at this point would be absurd, because it takes a near certain victory and turns it into a potential defeat (he's posting his 'reveal' with several hours left, not a couple minutes). Thus, the only reason for WE to say what he did is because he's an ally of Beefy and is trying the last thing he can think of to get votes going the other way. Don't buy it, keep your vote on Beefy.

[LittleGrizzly]

Vote Reenk Roink

Not even sure if i think its reenk, may as well keep my vote here...

[White_eyes:D]

The way I read it, WE is making a desperate last attempt to win by trying to get a massive vote shift towards Reenk. If WE really was Reenk's grunt, he would just vote for Reenk to make Beefy look scummier. Revealing at this point would be absurd, because it takes a near certain victory and turns it into a potential defeat (he's posting his 'reveal' with several hours left, not a couple minutes). Thus, the only reason for WE to say what he did is because he's an ally of Beefy and is trying the last thing he can think of to get votes going the other way. Don't buy it, keep your vote on Beefy.

No....my internet was on the "under maintenance for a few days:rolleyes:" not much I could do.....and besides....my silence meant Beefys guilt.....:smash:

Edit:but I am still mad at you Reenk.....you didn't need to make me listen to ATPG till I died.....just because I passed Skynet....:cry2:

[TinCow]

Let me get this straight:

(1) Reenk is the Godfather and you are his grunt.
(2) Due to the vote count, Reenk is guaranteed to win if you say nothing at all, thus you are guaranteed to win if you say nothing at all.
(3) You decide to 'reveal' about Reenk several hours before the deadline, thus risking your own victory.
(4) The reason you give for this reveal is because he 'threw you under the bus' and so you're annoyed, even though you're about to win due to his actions.

I guess your next statement will be about how you've got this great bridge for sale at an ultra-low price... :rolleyes:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Its up to you whether or not you listen to White_eyes. Since he's not being honest and straightforward about things, I wouldn't. Townies wouldn't be trying to sabotage the win, and if they were losing, they would, I dunno...

Make a logical case...

Besides, you've already decided. No sense in second-guessing yourselves now.



Chewbacca: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrgh

C-3PO: He made a fair move. Screaming about it can't help you.

Han Solo: Let him have it. It's not wise to upset a Wookiee.

C-3PO: But sir, nobody worries about upsetting a droid.

Han Solo: That's 'cause droids don't pull people's arms out of their sockets when they lose. Wookiees are known to do that.

Chewbacca: Grrf.

C-3PO: I see your point, sir. I suggest a new strategy, R2: let the Wookiee win.

[Jolt]

I think it's Andres so I'm not voting. :)

:yes:

[Jolt]

Its up to you whether or not you listen to White_eyes. Since he's not being honest and straightforward about things, I wouldn't. Townies wouldn't be trying to sabotage the win, and if they were losing, they would, I dunno...

Make a logical case...

Besides, you've already decided. No sense in second-guessing yourselves now.

I have no doubt WE is telling the truth, because we have two townies being voted for lynch.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Beefy187: 15 (Reenk Roink, Gaius, Quintus.JC, Sasaki, Psychonaut, Jolt, Lord Winter, TinCow, seireikhaan, Seamus Fermanagh, Beefy187, glyphz, Andres, shlin28, White_Eyes)

Reenk Roink: 4 (Askthepizzaguy, Taka, Pevergreen, LittleGrizzly)

A few more lost souls on the doomed ship?

:titanic:

Beefy isn't exactly pleading for his life here. Let him die.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Possibly we do. While Beefy was my first suspect, taka was not all that far behind. I'd finally put Reenk down to third place in my mind.

So, of course, it'll turn out to be Andres and I will confirm that as far as mafia game playing goes....I am a decent host. :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can honestly say I am a decent host, and that I am a decent mafioso. My feeble townie skills are no match for the power of the dark side.

[Thermal]

vote: reenk roink

GH has given me permission to tell you all, reenk is guilty, now its just the way of getting the message across, dangit! :wall:

[Askthepizzaguy]

LOLZ

I don't believe you. I prefer to believe that I was an arrogant jackass and dead wrong all game. Somehow, that's actually MORE comforting.


Funny/satirical version of this game, if it were written by George Lucas: The Godfather, Part III: Revenge of the Mafia (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2158530#post2158530)

[Thermal]

LOLZ

I don't believe you. I prefer to believe that I was an arrogant jackass and dead wrong all game. Somehow, that's actually MORE comforting.

No Reenk killed us all with :pikachu: wizardry e.g: :wizard:, he was the nude unicyclist..... :wall:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yeah? Show me proof. You're just toying with us. The entire town couldn't be that wrong.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It wouldn't surprise me if reenk was the nude unicyclist...but that guy only killed one person.

[Reenk Roink]

I told White eyes to do what he is doing. I like pressure situations, and I want to see if big leads can be overcome.

No comment yet on what I am. :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am the Godfather. :bow:

Isn't it obvious who you are? :laugh4:



:clown: You're Luke Skywalker.

[Reenk Roink]

Isn't it obvious who you are? :laugh4:

Obviously not. :bow:

[shlin28]

So many new semi-reveals....

I question my wisdom in betting so much money on Beefy... :sweatdrop:

The Dark Side of the Force is clouding my vision... must resist temptation to unvote... :wall:

[LittleGrizzly]

You're Luke Skywalker.

In that case who's the daddy ?

Andres ?

All these star wars refrences are making me want to play some star wars mafia...

[Askthepizzaguy]

I really, really want to host the Star Wars mafia. It will be an option... you vote on it when my large game turn comes up.

Treehouse of Horror, South Park Mafia, Star Wars... theres a bunch of good ones. As usual, the popular one wins. Even if you're not in Psycho, tune in because this will be even more hilarious than the Simpsons games. Most everyone is roleplaying a lunatic, or otherwise must behave as such.

:focus:

[White_eyes:D]

Reenk, you were just pissed because I wouldn't kill or help you lynch Andres, I mean I helped you with Seamus.......and here is a question for the town.......where did all the write-ups come from???:idea2: *hint* not from me......:shame: I just edited them.....so this way Reenks writing style would be hard to pin point....:shrug:

[White_eyes:D]

I am going to make this tribute to Reenk....."Because we are friends, right?" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pJWoB-Q6HU&feature=related):laugh4::clown::thumbsdown:

[TinCow]

So, have you invented an explanation yet for why you're trying to lose the game after Reenk has apparently won it for you with his brilliant play?

[White_eyes:D]

So, have you invented an explanation yet for why you're trying to lose the game after Reenk has apparently won it for you with his brilliant play?

:sweatdrop::sweatdrop::sweatdrop:he has won it......shlin can't come on to vote......and many of the others will vote Beefy....Reenk is that good....:pimp:

[LittleGrizzly]

WE's explanation of this seems to be, some kind of revenge theory on Reenk....

I prefer to not take WE's views into account based on the fact he could be telling us the truth or using reverse physcology

Either way... looking at it objectively he has made reenk's lynch if anything... less likely through his actions... so if anything i would hypothisise he is telling the truth... though like i said i don't really want to put much into what he's saying...

[White_eyes:D]

One thing that you guys missed was how he claimed he was "Defender of Beefy":laugh4:
right away, I thought that he was trying to make Beefy into a scapegoat.......sort of like on "the Prometheus" where he kept YLC around even though, YLC looked scummy as could be.....in the end....we lynched YLC......and Reenk quietly laughed, or at least I think he was..??......:2thumbsup:

[White_eyes:D]

NOTHING HERE....

[GeneralHankerchief]

-edit- many thanks. :bow:

[White_eyes:D]

I thought the round ended already??:juggle2: how much more time.....I couldn't have been far off if I figured it was four hours since I started posting......:sweatdrop:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, I started it a few hours late because I had some RL fun on a snow day yesterday. I wanted to give everyone 24 hours too, so hence the late end time.

Anyway, it'll be over in a bit less than 30 minutes.

[Csargo]

Vote:RR

[GeneralHankerchief]

Voting closed.

Keep in mind that the game isn't over until I post the final scene, so shush. :yes:

[Jolt]

30 minutes have passed. Time to see if I win my bet.

[Beefy187]

:wall:

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Suspense....

@ ATPG: :laugh4: Chewbacca?

[TinCow]

The mafia should be proud of themselves, no matter who they were and what the result. It was a very close game right down to the very end. It was also incredibly enjoyable, largely due to the exceptional performance of the mafia in remaining anonymous and picking interesting targets at night. You did well, whoever you are. :bow:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

In a previous life, GH was a marquis.......

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You better not be working on one of those fake endings GH...

[GeneralHankerchief]

You better not be working on one of those fake endings GH...

The fake ending was a one-time thing.

[pevergreen]

Happy birthday GH?

You has a birthday. :grin2:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Is this GH's birthday? Well done.

Happy birthday, then! And awesome, awesome game. What's up with White_Eyes? :laugh2:

[GeneralHankerchief]

”All right, mortals,” The Wanax said after several more hours of voting. His dark void somehow stared over the crowd. Amongst the smoky purple figures were three normal, alive, unspoiled human beings. Huddled together, scared, exhausted in every possible way over the events of the past week, they were ready for this to end, one way or another.

And end it would.

“BEEFY187!” The Wanax boomed, and even the ghostly purple beings jumped back in fear. “YOU HAVE RECEIVED THE MOST VOTES! STEP UP TO THE PLATFORM AND FACE YOUR FINAL JUDGMENT! “ Even with the infinitely dark, endless void where The Wanax’s face should have been, all of the villagers somehow got the impression that he was staring at Beefy with an impatient look, as if ready to get this over with.

For Beefy, the world went silent. The mutterings of the villagers, living and dead, ceased to exist. The relatively few ambient sounds of the Gameroom were also muted. Instead of there being a discernable sound, everything around him blended together, swirling around him in a great cacophony of nothing. It was over, for him, for everyone else. After twelve days, twelve agonizingly long days and nights that somehow felt more than over a month, it was finished. With no outside influence to distract him, with him suddenly, seemingly becoming immune to the very passage of time itself, Beefy had forever to reflect upon what happened, to ponder, to regret. He felt himself walking up the steps to the execution platform, but at the same time, his mind was elsewhere. Perhaps it had already departed for the place where his soul would soon join it.

“Time to die, Beefy,” The Wanax said, pulling out the phasgana, finally snapping Beefy back to reality.

…

“TIME FOR ALL OF YOU TO DIE!!!” The Wanax boomed suddenly, and for a second, the villagers saw a flash of Godfather Reenk Roink in that horrible void. In an instant The Wanax’s arms were spread wide, the phasgana in his hand glowing a pure white. Beefy, terrified beyond all reason, somehow noted that The Wanax’s feet were a few inches off the ground.

“You little puppets,” The Wanax roared, and nobody was unable to notice now the expression of pure triumph that somehow was made clear on the void. “You pathetic little puppets never could take the next step in human evolutionary thought throughout this entire little mess.”

Rising even higher off the ground, The Wanax somehow slipped into the tone of voice on someone giving a discourse, despite the glowing phasgana in his hand and the dark clouds quickly forming over the village. “All of you, sticking to your horribly outdated means of thought. Surely you did not seriously believe that your collective, conservative decisions could match the awesome wisdom of The Wanax?” The Wanax paused, allowing appropriate time for the villagers to contemplate what he just said, before continuing.

“You pathetic life forms are as predictable as the ants marching out to gather food and then marching back into the anthill,” The Wanax said. “It’s the problem of induction all over again! Did you learn nothing from the lesson I taught you merely hours ago? DID YOU REFUSE KNOWLEDGE FROM THE WANAX?!??!”

The villagers, realizing that they were all doomed, could still do nothing but listen in pure fear.

“JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING HAS ALWAYS HAPPENED A CERTAIN WAY IN THE PAST DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL HAPPEN THAT WAY IN THE FUTURE!” The Wanax thundered, and then, upon reflection, calmed down a bit. “Of course, with a superior intellect, I knew that you would be lynching based off past behavior. Because it’s served you well before and you’re all comfortable in your familiar little shells and routines, all of you afraid to take the leap that would propel town thought forward. Of course I knew that none of you would accuse me as a mafioso, saying that my actions were too ‘ballsy’ for someone who had so much at stake. It was simple logic, and thus I stayed one step ahead of you the entire time by doing the thing I knew you would least expect from a villain. I wouldn’t even call what I did a calculated risk so much as someone simply understanding what direction the town would take and making the necessary adjustments.”

The Wanax lowered to the ground, but only slightly. “However. I did admire your bravery and your willingness to press on, no matter the consequences. I was seriously considering sparing you for a while, even though you killed both of my grunts. BUT THEN YOU STRAIGHT UP IGNORED BY BIGGEST HINT!!! I MEAN, I GAVE IT TO YOU AND YOU BLATANTLY IGNORED IT!!! THE WANAX WILL NOT STAND FOR SUCH AN EGREGIOUS WASTE OF KNOWLEDGE! YOU MUST ALL DIE!!!” The phasgana, now being lifted into the air, continued to glow. At its point, the glow intensified and expanded, all at once engulfing everything into a blinding white light…

[GeneralHankerchief]

”All right, mortals,” The Wanax said after several more hours of voting. His dark void somehow stared over the crowd. Amongst the smoky purple figures were three normal, alive, unspoiled human beings. Huddled together, scared, exhausted in every possible way over the events of the past week, they were ready for this to end, one way or another.

And end it would.

“BEEFY187!” The Wanax boomed, and even the ghostly purple beings jumped back in fear. “YOU HAVE RECEIVED THE MOST VOTES! STEP UP TO THE PLATFORM AND FACE YOUR FINAL JUDGMENT! “ Even with the infinitely dark, endless void where The Wanax’s face should have been, all of the villagers somehow got the impression that he was staring at Beefy with an impatient look, as if ready to get this over with.

For Beefy, the world went silent. The mutterings of the villagers, living and dead, ceased to exist. The relatively few ambient sounds of the Gameroom were also muted. Instead of there being a discernable sound, everything around him blended together, swirling around him in a great cacophony of nothing. It was over, for him, for everyone else. After twelve days, twelve agonizingly long days and nights that somehow felt more than over a month, it was finished. With no outside influence to distract him, with him suddenly, seemingly becoming immune to the very passage of time itself, Beefy had forever to reflect upon what happened, to ponder, to regret. He felt himself walking up the steps to the execution platform, but at the same time, his mind was elsewhere. Perhaps it had already departed for the place where his soul would soon join it.

“Time to die, Beefy,” The Wanax said, pulling out the phasgana, finally snapping Beefy back to reality.

…

It was quick. Soon, Beefy’s corpse lay on the ground. In an instant, the smoky purple figures of the dead villagers vanished, leaving only Reenk Roink, Andres, and taka. There was silence for a few minutes, as everyone just stood around, not even milling. The silence continued, everyone looking at each other stupidly from time to time.

“Well,” said Andres, “what now?”

“Dunno,” said Reenk. It wasn’t me.

“It wasn’t me either,” said Andres.

“taka?” they both said at the same time, turning to third living villager. But Godfather taka already had two Tommy guns out, pointing directly at both Reenk’s and Andres’s faces. Their eyes widened in surprise for just a second, but then their entire expression turned downcast in shame. They had failed, then.

“Please make it quick,” Andres said.

taka just laughed. “Why would I have any incentive to do that?” he said. “This entire process has been drawn out a bit too slowly anyway. I might as well make it consistent. Hands behind your head and on your knees. Face away from me.” Moaning in despair, Reenk and Andres complied. Not like it mattered, since taka was most definitely going to kill them anyway. The sole reason that these two were playing by the Godfather’s rules was to die with a little more knowledge than they had now.

“Pants and shirts off,” taka continued. “I want to humiliate you first. A pity that there isn’t anyone else around to see you like this but I want this image of ultimate triumph ingrained in my mind forever.” Grinning, he watched as Andres and Reenk miserably did what they were told, again.

“You know, it’s pretty interesting, given The Wanax’s speech before he temporarily resurrected all of the dead. He was going off about the problem of induction, saying how humanity has a tendency to stay in its shell and believe that events will always happen the same way just because it’s been that way in the past. It’s interesting because you guys stayed beyond that for all this time, pathetically trying to advance your thinking in desperate hopes of catching the Godfather. And yet, here he was the entire time, using a time-honored tactic of not saying much, flying below the radar… just slipping by and watching while the rest of you killed yourselves.”

“So this entire final voting round… it was just a sham?” Reenk said.

“That’s right,” taka said, laughing giddily. “Once The Wanax called time last voting round, I knew it was over. And that’s why that whole induction speech was so deliciously entertaining. Because I had already proved The Wanax wrong. I used the most time-honored mafia tactic ever. AND I WON WITH IT, TOO!” taka threw his head back and made a truly evil laugh.

“I admit, I thought for a while that I was in serious trouble, especially after you guys got Lord Winter early on and then White_eyes:D at the very end, but I prevailed. I admit, it was a lucky break when TevashSzat fell asleep right after revealing, but we would have offed him anyway.”

Andres and Reenk, in their tighty-whities, said nothing, still hanging their heads in shame.

“Do you have everything you need?” taka asked. Both villagers nodded in reply.

“Good. I guess the last thing that will ever be on your minds is the shame coming from overlooking the obvious. Again.” taka, then, finally, opened up on the villagers far more than necessary. He then looked to the skies in triumph.

The Godfather was victorious.

:skull: :skull: :skull: REAL RESULT: CLOSE MAFIA VICTORY :evil: :evil: :evil:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Still alive: (1)
taka – Mafia Godfather :pimp:

Killed:
Tratorix
CountArach
seireikhaan
boudica
TinCow
Jolt
Ignoramus
Sasaki Kojiro
Psychonaut
LittleGrizzly
Chaotix27
pevergreen
777Ares777
Quintus.JC
Reenk Roink
Andres

Executed:
Ichigo
Lord Winter – Mafia Grunt :smoking:
Sigurd
Askthepizzaguy
TevashSzat – Detective :policeman:
Seamus Fermanagh
shlin28
glyphz
Gaius Scribonius Curio
White_eyes:D – Mafia Grunt :smoking:
Beefy187

[Beefy187]

:wall:

Again I repeat.. Taka is over powered.. Nerf your self!! :whip:

Superb performance taka. Just unbelievable. Congratulations :2thumbsup:

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Very well played Taka! Gah!!!!

....

Thanks to GH for a brilliant, tight and suspenseful game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

HA! I knew Beefy was innocent.

It's a shame that we didn't follow through on lynching the lurkers as we had originally planned to do.

This ending is pretty funny too. :smash: Well done, Taka. Hehehehe....

Well, at least I helped take care of Lord Winter. Good call you guys on White_Eyes. Hey, next time, we will make sure we lynch the lurkers, yes? As we had planned to do after Chicago and Scourge? Lynch the lurkers, hmm?

Stone cold play by Taka to risk death all game like that for lurking, especially as we started chopping lurkers. Still the most popular mafia strategy. D'oh! Fooled me a third time.

[Reenk Roink]

Congrats taka. :grin2:

I tried oh I tried oh I tried to kill little taka, but it was too hard nobody thought he was guilty. I actually somewhat believed that Beefy was the Godfather with his reveal to me for a bit, but when he was unable to tell me his other grunt I kinda figured. :bow:

I loved this PM from you the most:






well played CoP :2thumbsup:

I am NOT the Godfather please believe me. Ok fine you will see. But thanks anyway. :laugh4: :bow:

note: CoP, not Godfather

i know the truth, but i can't really change at this point now can i? lol

well played for getting into the final round, i think i just need to play more games and get used to each person's playing style

hopefully i'll be guessing it right next time ;)

taka

Hopefully we can guess you Mr. taka, with your superb lurker victory... :bow:

hehe, i think scummy beefy deserves the biggest play'd for getting into the final round like that

sorry for keeping my vote on ya for like the last 2/3 days lol, i genuinely thought u was GF back then

taka

:laugh4:

Thanks for the game GH, very great. :bow: Also happy birthday! :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

So Reenk, gonna go back to defending Beefy again now? :laugh2:

They always lynch Beefy. Poor Beefy...


And yeah, as promised, SkyNet is dead and gone for missing all the mafioso this game, and pegging the detective as mafia. Into the incinerator it goes...

I still contend that it was an ICE COLD strategy to lurk after the recent large games ended in lurker victories, and Andres and I and several others had all basically agreed at the beginning to lynch the lurkers, and we had started following through on it too.

That takes intestinal fortitude, and :daisy: the size of Mercury. Well earned, Taka, well earned. Nerves of steel, that one.

[TinCow]

Ug, done in by lurkers again. :wall:

Well played, taka. You must've enjoyed the last few days immensely. :bow:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Nicely done taka. For all the lurkers we nailed we let the last one slip by. Pretty brazen to keep it up that long, I see why GH figured you were mafia in Andres's game after your lynching vote on khaan.

Tevash vs LW was something I debated quite a bit--I could see tevash getting sick of the game after atpg going after him with those arguments all day. But I thought it made my case on beefy and white_eyes stronger if I went with tevash as the guilty one. I guess white_eyes was willing to put the lynching vote on his partner, bold stuff as well.

What makes mafia a really fascinating game for me is how honest you have to be with yourself about your reasons for suspecting someone. It's hard to find a middle ground between sticking to your guns and being rigid in your opinion. Easy to get caught up in irrational beliefs if you aren't aware of what is driving those beliefs. I guess I should have done that second reread after all :sweatdrop:


btw, gh, any explanation for unicyclist and boombox guy?

[Reenk Roink]

Tevash vs LW was something I debated quite a bit--I could see tevash getting sick of the game after atpg going after him with those arguments all day. But I thought it made my case on beefy and white_eyes stronger if I went with tevash as the guilty one. I guess white_eyes was willing to put the lynching vote on his partner, bold stuff as well.

I was wondering why he hasn't been back in ANY Mafia games. :shame: I for one, always believed in you Tevash!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ug, done in by lurkers again. :wall:

Well played, taka. You must've enjoyed the last few days immensely. :bow:

Well, for all our talk about lynching lurkers we really only lynched two of them.

Ichigo
Lord Winter – Mafia Grunt
Sigurd
Askthepizzaguy
TevashSzat – Detective
Seamus Fermanagh
shlin28
glyphz
Gaius Scribonius Curio
White_eyes:D – Mafia Grunt
Beefy187

Our first three rounds were great, we got a potential lurker, a mafioso, and a lurker. Next four rounds were absolutely terrible--two days wasted on atpg/tevash, and then lynching seamus and shlin when we should have been targetting lurkers still. We got back on track after that, I think our last 4 lynches were all good targets, but those 4 rounds did us in. If we'd kept on track for one of them then maybe we'd have lynched taka.

btw, jolt, your suspicions about white_eyes tie breaking vote turned out to be spot on, however he was saving taka not andres...:shame:

edit: wait, was white_eyes voting taka that day? ~:eek:


Gaius Scribonius Curio: 3 (Andres, Quintus.JC, White_eyes:D)
Andres: 2 (Reenk Roink, Gaius Scribonius Curio)
taka: 1 (Beefy187)

[White_eyes:D]

taka you are the man......and yes, I was just screwing with you at the end town.....:laugh4::laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yeah, me going after Tevash was definitley something I'll regret for a while. (Among many things) I hope he's all right and will return again soon. :sad:

[taka]

:mellow:

there's more to come.....

[White_eyes:D]

Time to post my fake detective reveal....:grin2:
Congratulations, White_eyes:D, you have been randomly picked to be the Detective.

Every night, you must PM me with the player you want to investigate for that night.
If you cannot send in your orders for that night, I will assume you don't want to investigate a player for that night. However, your life is not as expendable compared to that of a regular townie's, and if you do a reveal, do it only as a last resort. For if you die, town will lose a solid edge.

Like the previous Godfather's, both grunts show up guilty on Detective investigations, but the Godfather will always show up as innocent.

White_eyes:D, this game will probably be pretty tough. From what I see, there's going to be quite a bit of killing with ton's of good mafia players, and there's always the threat of the Godfather having his grunts lynched, rendering your role useless. You're going to have to be on your A-game to help town win this one. Best of luck to you.

GH

For this first night phase, you can't to do anything. In a little over 12 hours I will start the first day phase in which the town will elect a Chief of Police. The night after that, you may begin investigating players would this have fooled you???:clown:

[Reenk Roink]

White_eyes:D, this game will probably be pretty tough. From what I see, there's going to be quite a bit of killing with ton's of good mafia players, and there's always the threat of the Godfather having his grunts lynched, rendering your role useless. You're going to have to be on your A-game to help town win this one. Best of luck to you.

This kills an otherwise great reveal. :laugh4:

[White_eyes:D]

This kills an otherwise great reveal. :laugh4:

but that was what he said......I just was too lazy to do the write-up reports.....and had no idea what style to do them in........:sweatdrop:

[White_eyes:D]

I guess it is pointless to hide it.....I was hoping to save it for when I play another game and can just fake it......but I did about 90% of all the write-ups.....:book:.....it was fun really.....that's why I have TinCow's one quote in my sig...:grin:

Edit:Even the ones that I copied, like yours Reenk:brood:.....I was only using it to help screw with town......I must admit...if Sasaki hadn't nailed me in the last round......I think I would have cruised to the end.....:shame:

[seireikhaan]

Congratulations seireikhaan, you are the Detective!

I think you know how this works.

One investigation a night, the Godfather comes up innocent, and no private reveals of any kind. I'll need your first investigation within 24 hours. Best of luck! :2thumbsup:

GH

PS: BTW, in a little bit of trivia that may help you to determine whether you hate random.org or not, your number was actually the third one. The first two, interestingly enough, were the Godfather's two mafia grunts. :juggle2:
Alright, General... :brood:

You've got some 'splainin to do...

Congrats, Taka. Well earned win. Totally off my radar.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Time to post my fake detective reveal....:grin2: would this have fooled you???:clown:

GH don't talk like that :inquisitive:


In the end what killed the town I think is that while we're willing to lynch a lurker during the game, on one wants to lynch one in the endgame. Because there's nothing special about lurking that makes someone stand out as suspicious. So people go over the remaining people trying to figure out who is mafia and the lurker will never rate higher than "could be mafia", while they can easily ensure that there are some suspicious townies left alive. That's what got me in the end anyway, I never even reread taka's posts. Felt like Andres was innocent, reenk was probably innocent, had a case on beefy and he seemed to be in tandem with white_eyes on the previous day.

Once again, well done taka :2thumbsup:

My suggestion for the town is to resist the temptation for big in depth cases early on, and go for "best lynch" rather than "most likely mafioso". I fell in to this trap to after an early success with LW. There just isn't enough to go on for that kind of certainty. As holmes would say, it's a capital mistake to theorize without enough evidence.

[White_eyes:D]

Fine I well show you what I modeled it after....
Congratulations White_eyes:D and Lord Winter, you have been selected by your Godfather, taka, to be his henchmen in The Godfather, Part 3!

Every night, each of you will PM me with your kill choice for that night, along with the method. You must write the kills out exactly as you want them to appear in the thread, so if you're afraid someone will pick out your writing style, make arrangements to change them or have somebody else do them to you beforehand. However, you must ultimately be the ones to send me the kill description.

Once one of you is killed, the other can still kill one person a night - but only one person. Essentially, your firepower is halved as soon as one of you dies. However, your lives are both ultimately expendable compared to that of your Godfather's, for if he dies, the game immediately ends.

Unlike your Godfather, you two both show up guilty on Detective investigations.

Gentlemen, this game will probably be pretty tough. From what I see, there's not going to be too much WoG-bait, and there's always the threat of the Godfather being lynched. You're going to have to be on your A-games to win this one. Best of luck to you all.

GH

For this first night phase, you don't have to do anything. In a little over 12 hours I will start the first day phase in which the town will elect a Chief of Police. The night after that, the killing begins......see how similar the two are and why it would be hard to refute my detective one?:smash:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Day 12

”All right, mortals,” The Wanax said after several more hours of voting. His dark void somehow stared over the crowd. Amongst the smoky purple figures were three normal, alive, unspoiled human beings. Huddled together, scared, exhausted in every possible way over the events of the past week, they were ready for this to end, one way or another.

And end it would.

“BEEFY187!” The Wanax boomed, and even the ghostly purple beings jumped back in fear. “YOU HAVE RECEIVED THE MOST VOTES! STEP UP TO THE PLATFORM AND FACE YOUR FINAL JUDGMENT! “ Even with the infinitely dark, endless void where The Wanax’s face should have been, all of the villagers somehow got the impression that he was staring at Beefy with an impatient look, as if ready to get this over with.

For Beefy, the world went silent. The mutterings of the villagers, living and dead, ceased to exist. The relatively few ambient sounds of the Gameroom were also muted. Instead of there being a discernable sound, everything around him blended together, swirling around him in a great cacophony of nothing. It was over, for him, for everyone else. After twelve days, twelve agonizingly long days and nights that somehow felt more than over a month, it was finished. With no outside influence to distract him, with him suddenly, seemingly becoming immune to the very passage of time itself, Beefy had forever to reflect upon what happened, to ponder, to regret. He felt himself walking up the steps to the execution platform, but at the same time, his mind was elsewhere. Perhaps it had already departed for the place where his soul would soon join it.

“Time to die, Beefy,” The Wanax said, pulling out the phasgana, finally snapping Beefy back to reality.

…

*SCREECH!!!*

The terrible screeching sound was followed by the roar of a very powerful engine. Out of nowhere, a van barreled into the Gameroom Square. A van with the words Vincenzo’s Guttering painted on the side.

All the living villagers dove out of the way, including Beefy and The Wanax, scrambling to get as far away from the van as they possibly could. It was a wise move, as Vincenzo, Gregorio, and Jacopo all jumped out of the van and fired their machine guns at anything and everything that moved. Even the dead villagers, unharmed by the bullets, were forced back by the sheer momentum that the three capi produced.

Once Vincenzo deemed everybody was at a safe range, he fired his gun in the air to call for quiet. He quickly received it.

“Okay, everybody, listen up! The last time I did this, the three of us nearly burned to death. This time, we’re doing it right. Greg! Bring out the vacuum!” Gregorio did as he was told, exchanging his SMG for, oddly enough, a vacuum cleaner.

“In a moment, Greg is going to turn the vacuum on, and all of you guys are getting a new home, ‘Ghostbusters’ style! Now then, I see that my mafioso has failed me again. Guess it’s time to put this place under new management. My first act as new Mayor of the Gameroom is to rename it. I think ‘Vincenzoland’ has a nice touch, don’t you, boys?”

Greg and Jake instantly nodded. Better not to disagree with the boss in one of his moods.

“I suppose I’ll let Beefy187 live,” Vincenzo mused. “After all, he and his boys TevashSzat and White_eyes:D *did* kill most of the village, including the Detective seireikhaan and that crazy nude unicyclist 777Ares777. It looked like he was going to be lynched in the end, but I guess a timely save by Vincenzo worked out! Beefy owes me big. Now, Greg, about that vac-OUCH!”

Vincenzo buckled to the ground, screaming. Out of nowhere was GeneralHankerchief, standing over the Godfather’s boss, holding his trusty boombox in one hand and a baseball bat in the other. Before anyone could react, GeneralHankerchief swung it at Jacopo who also went down in pain. That only left Gregorio. GH, moving quickly, went into the van and a second later came out, holding a plug that was obviously connected to the now-useless vacuum. Greg, realizing that GH had superiority of arms for the moment, knelt to the ground alongside his comrades and put his hands over his head.

GH looked over the townies, living and dead. “What?” he asked after a moment. “You honestly thought I *wouldn’t* be present in another Mafia assault on the Gameroom?”

Some of the older villagers, such as Sasaki Kojiro, Ichigo, and Sigurd, laughed. Of course this would be true.

“I mean, sure, I was responsible for the first two… but still. Anyway, the police are coming. The *real* police. These three paisans are going to jail for a long time.”

Everybody cheered. Living and dead, they partied long into the night, dancing and drinking, and, of course, getting GeneralHankerchief to play one final song on his boombox: “I Fought the Law” by the Crickets, the Clash, Green Day, and every other artist that covered the very relevant song. After many more drinks, however, the celebration abruptly ended as they realized that two people were missing: Beefy and The Wanax.

Beefy was running down a street as fast as he could, desperate to escape both the wrath of the villagers as well as Vincenzo. He was too worried about getting as far away as he could to notice the red dot on his chest. Luckily there was someone there to point it out too him.

He heard someone screaming "Beefy Watch Out! There is a red dot on your chest! It's the Sniper!!!"

The man threw Beefy what appeared to be a bulletproof vest, and Beefy put it on without much thought. Not noticing that it was a vest covered with C-4 explosives!

It was too late to take off the vest though, the button was pushed, and Beefy went KABLOOEE!

A laser pointer was found at the scene along with a business card with the words "The Wanax" and a grape watermark.

:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: REAL *REAL* RESULT: CLOSE TOWNSPEOPLE VICTORY!!! :smash: :yes: ~:grouphug:

~~~~~~~~~

Survived: (3)
Andres
Reenk Roink
taka

Killed:
Tratorix
CountArach
seireikhaan - Detective :policeman:
boudica
TinCow
Jolt
Ignoramus
Sasaki Kojiro
Psychonaut
LittleGrizzly
Chaotix27
pevergreen
777Ares777 - The Nude Unicyclist (one-time vigilante) :juggle2:
Quintus.JC

Executed:
Ichigo
Lord Winter
Sigurd
Askthepizzaguy
TevashSzat - Mafia Grunt :smoking:
Seamus Fermanagh
shlin28
glyphz
Gaius Scribonius Curio
White_eyes:D - Mafia Grunt :smoking:
Beefy187 - Mafia Godfather :pimp:

~~~~~~~~~~~~

And that about wraps up The Godfather, Part 3, gentlemen. I'll say more in my commentary, but right now I want to thank and congratulate you all, town and Mafia, for making this an incredible game. It has truly been a pleasure to host for you this past month and you don't know how glad I am that we were able to do this wonderful series justice.

A BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE TO ALL THE PLAYERS!!! :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

GRRRRRRRRRR.

And by that I mean, well played taka-san.

You must have been dancing with glee to be one of the one's to ace me when it was you or me on the line -- you could help kill one of the one's gnawing at you in a setting where NOBODY -- including me -- would make much of your vote.

I really only twigged you at the end, by which time the Beefster was already claiming my mafia-o-meter high score. You'd changed, but I dismissed it as understandable in the final part of the endgame.

Well played.


White_Eyes: Nicely done. You only gave yourself up slightly under the pressure and then only at the final gasp of events. Had we been fooled but one more round, you'd have had an even quicker victory. Well played.


Winter: Good team effort there. You were twigged pretty quickly, but that happens. You never ever gave up and confessed or started getting silly. This always left some room for doubt -- which is all you can do once you've been offed.



Note to town: In standardish games (Mafia, Godfather, CN), lurkers must be excised as the primary target (barring obvious gaffes revealing a mafioso) in rounds 2-5. This is especially true if the lurkers have voted enough to avoid wogging. The town can afford to leave obvious woggees-to-be alive, but lurkers must get active or meet Jack Ketch.


EDIT:

Please excuse me. While the "note to town" stands, I have -- once again -- been had. I will now have to zip over to 64, swing round 295, then cruise up 95N to the D.C. area. I'll go around the Beltway to Bethesda and then cruise down into D.C. itself, headed toward a certain university in the vicinity of the National Cathedral.

I will then find that loathsome dog host of ours and defenestrate him a half dozen times or so, after which (while he's recovering) I will mod his ETW to have every general's pre battle speech begin with "you are a soiled handkerchief and you are about to be thrown out a window!" GRRRRRRRR!

[seireikhaan]

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Ok, then...

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Sheesh... had me confused for a second.

[Reenk Roink]

What, the hell?

[taka]

Well played til the end beefy :D

and congrats the town for lynching the right person woot woot!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Oh GH, double fakeout! Love it. Suppose I should have realized that the lack of song and explanation for juggler dude meant something was up.

[Beefy187]

Good...

Now I get to hear Pizza guy scream in agony :laugh4:

I got a lot to say but I'll abstain until GH posts his commentary

And a big congratulations to the towns for nailing me at the end. Well done!

[White_eyes:D]

Yeah.....it was a townie victory.....:sweatdrop:.....GH did they really have song clues in the previous Godfather?:brood:......anyway GG~:cheers: I loved being the grunt....and I loved screwing with town more......:2thumbsup:

[Askthepizzaguy]

STOP MESSING WITH MY BRAAAAIIIINNNN!!!!!!!!




Will ya quit it! It was funny the first time, already!

Well, now I don't feel so bad about TevashSzat, and GOOD CALL townies on White_Eyes.

I had to keep my vote on Reenk Roink out of fairness, because the game was basically over but Beefy refused to say he was innocent to me all game, and Reenk Roink did, over and over again, even past the point of no return.

Well done, White_Eyes for avoiding the wrath of SkyNet. TevashSzat wasn't so lucky. I made a good guess about seireikhaan being either the detective or a mason, and when it was too late, I figured Ares was the Nudicyclist, but he had basically done everything legal he could do to explain he had a role.

What I want to know is, why did Seireikhaan post all those clues and stuff? And why was Ares so sure it was Sasaki as a henchman? That threw me off a lot, it didn't help me. Any explanations?

Yay! SkyNet got ONE of them! :bow:


Now I get to hear Pizza guy scream in agony :laugh4:

Why would I do that? I already said you TOTALLY fooled me, Beefster. And I don't feel bad now, because I WAS actually useful this game after all, not a total jackass.

To be honest, I am surprised by the result, and I really wish SkyNet would STOP FINGERING THE PROTOWN ROLES!!!

[GeneralHankerchief]

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Oh GH, double fakeout! Love it. Suppose I should have realized that the lack of song and explanation for juggler dude meant something was up.

Well, you'll notice when I said this:


The fake ending was a one-time thing.

I said nothing about fake endings. :laugh4:

-edit- oh no, please don't wait for my commentary to post anything. I'm going to be locked in a room with a computer for a week working on that thing. :sweatdrop:

[White_eyes:D]

OH.....Khaan.....you died because of Random.org......Yeah I know:shrug:....lucky break in the early going for us....:laugh4::laugh4:

Edit:for three nights in a row we went without killing two people......then Tevash went MIA....then in the end game my internet service went down for about 4 days.....:rolleyes: I was totally pissed.....I couldn't even give Beefy a proper write-up....

[Seamus Fermanagh]

My response has been edited into my previous post. GRRRRRRRR.

[seireikhaan]

Wow, I gotta say...

UNBELIEVABLE game. Incredibly well done. Good writeups from the mafia and our CoP's, good role selection, EVERYTHING. Granted, it got heated for a while, and for that, I apologize. It was mostly my fault; I'll explain in detail tomorrow perhaps, but I just got so frustrated at being a dead detective. Either way, my behavior for most of the game was unhelful and, at times, borderline vulgar. Sorry.

However, I think this game will give Capo III a run for its money come HoF time, assuming Capo runs on schedule and comes this year. Wonderful game, wonderful job all around.

[Reenk Roink]

Seriously... the :furious3: ???

So Beefy "revealed" to me that he was the Godfather and told me White eyes was his grunt. I asked who his other grunt was, and well, Beefy wouldn't get back to me. That coupled with taka's earlier post got me wondering. I still thought Beefy was the main Mafia, but had second doubts about both Andres and taka.

When GH posted the taka victory, it made sense it retrospect. taka for some reason sent me a congrats PM right after the tie vote. I had thought crap, this guy did it, he played us all, but then Beefy soon after revealed to me so I ignored taka for the bit.

GH, you are an evil, evil man... :laugh4: :2thumbsup:

Thank you for using my kill method :bow:

[GeneralHankerchief]

My response has been edited into my previous post. GRRRRRRRR.

That made me guffaw in real life. My roommates would probably appreciate your efforts. :laugh4:

[seireikhaan]

Congratulations seireikhaan, you are the Detective!

I think you know how this works.

One investigation a night, the Godfather comes up innocent, and no private reveals of any kind. I'll need your first investigation within 24 hours. Best of luck! :2thumbsup:

GH

PS: BTW, in a little bit of trivia that may help you to determine whether you hate random.org or not, your number was actually the third one. The first two, interestingly enough, were the Godfather's two mafia grunts. :juggle2:


OH.....Khaan.....you died because of Random.org......Yeah I know:shrug:....lucky break in the early going for us....:laugh4::laugh4:
Well, GH, I think we have our answer to that last bit... :brood:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yeah, that was really weird. Random.org's first two picks for Detective were Tevash and White_eyes. And then it goes and gives the mafia khaan.

I wonder if I should be relying on it for the Battle of Edessa in the Throne Room... :hide:

[Reenk Roink]

You know what, I'm still pissed! :furious3::furious3::furious3::furious3::furious3: You never let us do this in Mafia V! :beam:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

OH.....Khaan.....you died because of Random.org......Yeah I know:shrug:....lucky break in the early going for us....:laugh4::laugh4:

Edit:for three nights in a row we went without killing two people......then Tevash went MIA....then in the end game my internet service went down for about 4 days.....:rolleyes: I was totally pissed.....I couldn't even give Beefy a proper write-up....

What was the plan behind skipping the kills btw? I guess you didn't actually brazenly vote for your buddy and your godfather lol :laugh4:

btw, the fake ending just goes to show what I was saying earlier. It's so easy to read that and go "I can see how taka was the GF all along!" :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Seireikhaan, I'd love to know what was up with your clues?
And Ares, why were you so sure Sasaki was evil? I thought he was too, admittedly.

Reenk, quick, change your title back! Quick, quick! :laugh2:

...do you guys forgive me now? :shame: And GH, you best not be lying.

[taka]

for everyone that congrats me, i think the congrats should go to the town. and a big well play'd to beefy, i personally NEVER thought he was the GF until i had to ask him just before his fate was sealed.


When GH posted the taka victory, it made sense it retrospect. taka for some reason sent me a congrats PM right after the tie vote. I had thought crap, this guy did it, he played us all, but then Beefy soon after revealed to me so I ignored taka for the bit.

i thought u knew that beefy was the GF before i sent you the pm? i sent the pm because i knew u had nailed beefy :laugh4:

as for everyone talking about lurkers....

PLEASE LEAVE US ALONE!..... sometimes we're busy in REAL LIFE........ :laugh4:

and congrats to the townies who saw through beefy and voted for him, i personally thought wrong and voted reenk

[Reenk Roink]

Damn, Tevash really seemed innocent to me too. :laugh4: I will wear the badge of humiliation for a bit. :2thumbsup:

[White_eyes:D]

I really thought it was over when Beefy was the Godfather.....:sweatdrop: but we almost did it.....had are other Mafia buddy been around for those last couple of nights......it might have been different...:juggle2: but anyway.....this was my PM between me and Beefy, when he choose me as his grunt.....
your the Godfather Beefy????
Tevash we need to VERY careful about our targets, A LOT of vets are playing this and I can't help but feel the odds are stacked against us.....none the less....

Beefy= godfather=.... alright lets give up

Yea pretty much
Well seeing as you White_eyes built up a reputation of being innocent and Tevash is a good silent killer I thought the combination of you two works brilliantly rather then hiring the veterans. I have to say.. Ichigo+ Sasaki combo would've been deadly..

Your right White_eyes. We have a lot of vets. I think rather then trying what Sigurd and Boudica did, killing suspects, I think its a lot better to stick to basic and kill those who are seemingly innocent if we have any chance of victory.

The analyzers are better to be lynched. Thats those like ATPG, GH and LittleGrizzly.

good luck crew. Let the bloody show beginyou need to admit.....my write-ups REALLY screwed with you guys:clown::yes::smash:

[Askthepizzaguy]

PLEASE LEAVE US ALONE!..... sometimes we're busy in REAL LIFE........ :laugh4:



NO!!! Sorry, in the early game, lurkers must die. I'm sorry, but those are the rules. You understand?

1. Early lynches will NEVER kill mafia, unless they are OK with a henchman dying to protect the others. Therefore, lynch people who volunteer (no protown role) or the lurkers, preferably.

2. Don't feel bad, Reenk. Seriously, I feel bad for going after YOU and thinking Beefy was innocent. I'm wearing the "Defender of Beefy" badge to remind me of my shame.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The analyzers are better to be lynched. Thats those like ATPG, GH and LittleGrizzly.

So your plan was to lynch the host? heh :2thumbsup:

Did you guys have a quicktopic?


And Ares, why were you so sure Sasaki was evil? I thought he was too, admittedly.

I guess that juggling ball bit was put in their by GH, seemed weird that the mafia would choose to put it in.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Mafia Quicktopic:

http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/GvCSFhMJF6JEk

I must say, it was great for fast host/mafia communication. I think all future hosts should request access to all in-game Quicktopics to make things run smoother.

[Reenk Roink]

But if I may give a request, please leave Sasaki and Ichigo alone for a time being. I don't want to welcome them back with Round 1/ Round 2 kill.

This is why I love Beefy and wanted him to win. What a great guy. :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

@The Mafia:

Missing the murder after Lord Winter's death was a sly gambit, but I don't think it worked very effectively. The town assumed that he might be guilty, but they also assumed he could be innocent. And Lord Winter did a good deed by mostly refraining from posting so as not to confuse us.

May have been better to murder twice every round, but by all means, mafia keep trying that gambit.
Was it a gambit, though? Or did one of you forget to murder? TevashSzat's death = 1 less mafia vote, 1 less mafia murder. Not bad, even if that's the only thing SkyNet was able to do POSITIVELY this game. :shame:

SkyNet is still dead, though. I have an announcement I'd like to make:


MIDAS is coming.

[White_eyes:D]

So your plan was to lynch the host? heh :2thumbsup:

Did you guys have a quicktopic?



I guess that juggling ball bit was put in their by GH, seemed weird that the mafia would choose to put it in.

Yes we did maybe Beefy could tell you it.......and I thought Rythmic was the Vigilante:juggle2: if you look in my kill write-up I said he had a identity.....heck you guys missed a lot of clues in my write-ups.....TinCow having "BEEFED" craved into his head.....:clown:

[White_eyes:D]

MIDAS is coming.

What in the world is that???:inquisitive:

[taka]

a weapon of mafia destruction i assume

[Askthepizzaguy]

Heck you guys missed a lot of clues in my write-ups.....TinCow having "BEEFED" craved into his head.....:clown:

WIFOM, and Beefy is always the scapegoat. Had to ignore that, I didn't miss it at all, but I refused to believe clues that came FROM the mafia.

Ballsy, but those kinds of clues will remain in-jokes for the mafia, because it's too hit-and-miss. Lots of people were falsely implicated by the writeups.


What in the world is that???

MIDAS is to SkyNet what warp drive is to the horse and buggy. And I'm not revealing who might be helping. Someone here knows who it is, please remain silent.

[White_eyes:D]

a weapon of mafia destruction i assume

oh.....taka you have not lost as a Mafia yet.....weird.....but I am sure your rep in the small games well get you lynched at some point....:whip:

Edit: I am still keeping the SIG:smoking: I love that comment by TinCow....and me+Skynet and a few vets made it happen.....

[TinCow]

Whew, I'm pleased with the fake-out. I had just about given up on ever being able to spot ANY mafioso when playing as a townie, since I was so convinced about Beefy at the end. After all the dead ends I pursued in this game, the idea of a taka win nearly melted my brain since he didn't appear on my mafia radar at all. Good to know I'm only mostly hopeless as a townie, and not totally.


MIDAS is to SkyNet what warp drive is to the horse and buggy.

Is it too much to hope that it has improved levels of brevity?

[White_eyes:D]

Is it too much to hope that it has improved levels of brevity?
It is too much to hope it will keep ATPG's post count down?:juggle2:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Everyone who played this game:

I want you to know I have taken your friendly and helpful advice to heart.

1. I will be spoilering my longer posts
2. I will be talking a lot less, especially in the earlier stages
3. There will be no MIDAS report to read. Everything is secret. You either trust the advice or not.
4. If you demand a specific argument for a certain person, I'll keep it brief and to the point.
5. I'll need your help in refining my style in this manner. Be patient and you will get the results you want out of me: Helpful, yet bearable.

I hope I redeemed myself even a little, and please, do NOT be afraid to offer me your advice and tell me if I am getting annoying. I do care, I am not so much of a jerk as to ignore all my friends.

[taka]

oh.....taka you have not lost as a Mafia yet.....weird.....but I am sure your rep in the small games well get you lynched at some point....:whip:


Eeek!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Mafia Quicktopic:

http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/GvCSFhMJF6JEk

I must say, it was great for fast host/mafia communication. I think all future hosts should request access to all in-game Quicktopics to make things run smoother.

I love the smell of vindication in the morning...

Interesting read, my favorite is how ya'll thought Reenk was the mafia mastermind :2thumbsup:

I have to say though, well played. Beefy's choice to vote tevash was a tough call, but as I said when I talked about it before I had been sure atpg was headed for a lynch as well. The decision to reveal might not have been the best, it dooms you to a lynch and tevash had a decent chance of surviving. All came tumbling down in the end but it was awfully close.

Edit: Also, kudos to lord winter for coming back near the end of the game and showing off his townie side. It helped cement tevash as mafia which helped point to beefy and white_eyes.

Oh and one more thing:


About half an hour to the deadline...only so many times you can self protect before it bites you in the back. Still the right play though.

Unvote:Lord Winter
Vote:Beefy


VOTING TO SAVE YOURSELF IS THE RIGHT MOVE AS TOWN ~:mad~:mad

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sasaki = Legend. :smash:

I'm glad that we had so many excellent players in this game. This game was awesome on every level. Writeups were excellent, hosting was excellent, setup was excellent, the mafia were excellent, and everyone in town got a shot at killing the Godfather. Wow.

:smash: Best game of 2009 candidate, and by the end of the year, it still will be.


EDIT:
VOTING TO SAVE YOURSELF IS THE RIGHT MOVE AS TOWN

ABSOLUTELY. It's not a certain mafia tell, fellows. Listen to Sasaki.

[Beefy187]

Behold!! The wall of text!! In beef flavor!! (Gibberish!)

Alright. Since GH said his going to take a while for his write up, heres my thoughts.

Firstly, thank you White_eyes and Tevash. I couldn't have gone this far with out both of you. Big hug for both of you :2thumbsup:

I remember someone using tree in the forest quote. My plan was to SPAM SPAM SPAM with all the WIFOM and so it will confuse the hell out of the town and it did work to some extent. I counted on people to pardon silly Beefical behavior.

I regret the early game when I was almost lynched. I thought the victory was impossible when I got chosen as the God Father but I thought surviving long as I could is my duty. My grunts were quick to back me up, and I managed to get few peoples trust with a risky play.

While people could argue about Reenks behavior, constantly being scummy and all, Reenk always scared the crap out of me at least, and I believe scared my crew as well. When Reenk updated his title to "defender of Beefy" I thought he already knew that I'm the God Father. He always backed me up when needed, and White_eyes suggested that Reenk could have the Master mind role. That gave me some comfort but I never had the guts to push for Reenk lynch when I could've as I was paranoid about Reenk having "insta pawn God Father role" of some kind. Congratulations to Reenk for spooking me out of having mystical super role, where you were just a plain old townie.

To get a success without lurking, I got in contact with few players. When Gaius first contacted me, I reminded him about how he betrayed me in one of GHs mafia, hoping that would get him to trust me slightly. I initiated mutual alliance with taka which I managed to get a almost complete trust until the final few rounds and approached close to ATPG when I discovered that I passed his first skynet analysis.

Things were going well for me. I managed to completely slip out of the rader through out mid game and end game, none of my grunts were suspected, at this stage I finally saw a possibility of me actually winning this game.

That changed when one of my grunt Tevash got in the way of Pizza Lord. As we accidentally forgot to send in one of the kill orders which incriminated Lord Winter, I thought of the possibility of sacrificing Tevash, campaign that "Tevash was killed but we still have same old write up.. Tevash must've been innocent.. Lynch Pizza guy!"
But White_eyes and Tevash protested and asked me to support Tevash. Thus my awkward behavior on Tevash case.

ATPG was a useful asset for me. In psychology it says who ever speaks more gets their opinion accepted more often. ATPGs case often leads to lynches. So all I have to do were follow around ATPG like a puppy and we get our lynches we need. While ATPG should be :whip: and :thumbsdown: for my rise and success, he was also the reason for my fall and ultimate defeat. No matter how calmly I convinced him not to lynch Tevash, he stubbornly denied it. Tevash case eventually led me into the chopping board as most of the case against me were behavior during Tevash case and behavior in the end game.

White_eyes made a fake detective role pm, which Tevesh could've used by he went inactive so he got lynched earlier then we expected..

Then we got into the end game. I suggested to White_eyes that we should keep our distances far away as possible, which didn't really do. We ended up keeping our self relatively close which I regret.

Then White_eyes got lynched. I was hoping for a victory that round, but there was nothing I could've done to prevent but to stay up all night to shift the vote. That was mostly my fault for not being online when things looked bad for White_eyes. And that got him lynched.

For the whole time, I relied on White_eyes and Tevash to do the write up as I am obviously not a native speaker. So when I found out that White_eyes won't be sending me the night kill description on the QJC kill due to computer maintenance, I had to write it my self. My original write up was made out of three lines before it was edited by GH. I can't remember the exact write up but its something along the line of

QJC came back home
*BANG!!
Mafia laughed and left the scene

At that stage I was already on the edge. When I discovered that GHs kill description clearly showed that it was done by the God Father, meaning White_eyes were one of the grunts, I relied on WIFOM to get me out of the mess. I accused my self over and over, then change my attitude to "I want to survive...I'm innocent! Help! If you lynch me.. We lose!"

When I saw that it wasn't very effective, I practically gave up. When Reenk contacted me on the last day, still thinking that Reenk already knows that I'm the God Father, I revealed to him and told him I'm willing to do a public reveal as there is no chance I could get out of it. But Reenk convinced me not to and wait for the final judgment as I still have some hope.

White_eyes and Reenk did a little skit at the end, just to mess with the town but I had nothing to do with that.

I'm happy that the town managed to get me at the end, although I was surprised that taka and ATPG were still convinced that I am innocent (no offense. I love you both :beam:)

Congratulations to Seamus, TinCow, pevergreen & Sasaki for leading the town to victory, nailing me at the end. Especially Sasaki who deserves a MVP of this game if there is such award. :balloon3:
.................................................................................................... ..................................................................................

Thoughts came in my mind. Although I had nearly no chance of survival in the last round, If I was consistent about lynching taka at the end, maybe I could've won. As Reenk turns out that he was convinced of my innocence. Two votes on taka and one votes on Reenk would've forced Andres to vote for Reenk. Which would've got me out of the trouble. I gave up too early didn't I.. :sweatdrop:

And another thought about ATPG. You called me master of patience and clearly you lack patience :smash: But I respect your ability to convince the town to lynch who you want and I respect the scum rather which can point out scummy behavior of others. I played countless of games on the Org but I never ever built my own case against anyone. I usually end up going on the bandwagon or hop on others with the votes already. Your ability to convince the town to lynch who you want is exactly what I need along with your ability to detect scummy players. And your strong will to drag who ever you decided guilty all the way to the chopping board no matter what happens is also nice thing for me to have. I shall call you master too :bow:

.................................................................................................... ............................................

Finally a huge... Huge thanks to GH! I never managed to survive too long in Capo. So this is one of the best game I ever played along with the Golden Rule which was legendary in different ways.
Thanks heaps!! :balloon2:

And thanks to all my fellow players who made this enjoyable:2thumbsup:
Apart from a little heated discussion in midgame which I didn't really enjoy..

See you in the next game :yes:

PS: Lynch taka :smash:

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

:laugh4: well GH certainly had me fooled...

And woot! First win! (although I still died en route...)

[Beefy187]

:laugh4: well GH certainly had me fooled...

And woot! First win! (although I still died en route...)

Forgot about that :oops:

Congratulations Gaius for your first victory! And you were the only person I had in contact with who wasn't completely blinded by my beefy act:2thumbsup:

Have a baloon:balloon2:

[Askthepizzaguy]

As with all mafia strategies, I am adding "being nice to me" as an ineffective strategy from now on.

I will not factor that into my analysis anymore, as a townie or scumtell, as it is neither. You give me far too much credit about your downfall, yes it prompted inconsistent play on your part, but were it not for our other veteran players, we could have lost if people listened to me.

It was a good thing that by the end, people were finding their own suspects and my repeated failures to catch the Godfather had discredited me. I consider it an honor that your entire strategy all game revolved around fooling me personally. I have to say, you succeeded in that.


I also nominate Sasaki as being the MVP of the game.

[Beefy187]

As with all mafia strategies, I am adding "being nice to me" as an ineffective strategy from now on.

I will not factor that into my analysis anymore, as a townie or scumtell, as it is neither. You give me far too much credit about your downfall, yes it prompted inconsistent play on your part, but were it not for our other veteran players, we could have lost if people listened to me.

It was a good thing that by the end, people were finding their own suspects and my repeated failures to catch the Godfather had discredited me. I consider it an honor that your entire strategy all game revolved around fooling me personally. I have to say, you succeeded in that.

Aww :sweatdrop:

What am I going to do next time if I'm mafia? If I can't count on you ATPG :smash:

[Askthepizzaguy]

What am I going to do next time if I'm mafia? If I can't count on you ATPG :smash:

Die at the hands of MIDAS.

MUUUUHUUUHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!! :devil:

:clown:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Behold!! The wall of text!! In beef flavor!! (Gibberish!)

Alright. Since GH said his going to take a while for his write up, heres my thoughts.



For most of the game I had filed you as innocent for seemingly selfless actions day 2...you guys just needed a solid plan coming into the endgame. Also, the unfortunate side effect of tevash's reveal was that people could now connect you to him...otherwise we would have continued to suspect lord winter, and white_eyes would have looked innocent as a result.

On a side note, I'm never again going to assume that the mafia wouldn't deliberately drop to one kill early in the game...it would have worked very well here.


*****

btw Pizza, you have more posts in this game than there are in the whole of mafia I!

[Beefy187]

Die at the hands of MIDAS.

MUUUUHUUUHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!! :devil:

:clown:

I'll be ready. I'll polish my WIFOMs. I'll work on mafia strategy. Then eventually I'll be able to defeat the MIDAS!!

Good thing its not SkyNet anymore.. Man.. *Sarah Conor Chronicles aren't real..Robots aren't real :wall:I'll put some more salt and peppers on me so more people will blindly trust me..~:flirt:

EDIT: Thank you Sasaki Sensei:bow:
I'm already getting ready for the next mafia opportunity:beam:

[Askthepizzaguy]

btw Pizza, you have more posts in this game than there are in the whole of mafia I!

God, that was never my intention. :shame:

I have an unfortunate habit of treating the threads like a chat room. When people talk, I don't hesitate to respond, especially when they talk to me. It just never occurred to me that I was responding to basically EVERYONE in the game and no one else was playing that way. I am not trying to add to my post count or be the most talkative or spam threads. Seriously.

I also have manic/bipolar disorder, and when I get interested in something, it's like I'm on crack. It's hard to stop myself. I literally do need everyone's help in toning down the volume, because I don't have the same restraint that others do. I never post for the sake of posting, or to hear myself talk. In real life, I am more silent than everyone here. You will never hear me talk in real life, because I have issues relating to people. Manic/bipolar plus low social skills and high IQ make it very difficult to understand people. I'm a loner, and this forum is the ONLY place I express myself.

Pizzaguy isn't completely normal. It's just how I was made. I blame the manufacturer.

*shakes his fist towards the heavens*

On second thought...

*shakes his fist towards the underworld*

See? I am doing it right now. People mention my name and it's like you summon me like a genie. :embarrassed:

Stop invoking the name of Pizzaguy! :laugh2:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I was right that GeneralHankerchief was the boombox guy. :cool:

Would have been a better game for me if I hadn't fell for the "nice guy" trap.



edit: Anxious for GH's commentary, really. I wanna know the song clues.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I liked the boombox guy as a feature. The "tonight, tonight" clue was very helpful of course...and the song after tevash's lynch was suitably cryptic with the title being "still alive" and the lyrics being "GREAT SUCCESS".

I have to say, this is the first game in a while where I've really enjoyed being a townie. Much tougher job than mafia. This game, GF2, and a few of the earlier games before I got fed up with it.

VV haha! That's great...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Song selection and the reason why I picked them is the only part of the commentary that I currently have written. I'll say right now that I didn't see the "Tonight, Tonight" song from the "the game will end tonight if you get it wrong" angle at all while picking it though. It just worked out that way. :dizzy2:

[Lord Winter]

I wish I was hear between the fake ending and the real ending so I could mess with the town abit.

Excellent job to the mafia. Esspically your choice of who to keep around in the end game. I guess, it just goes to show that its impossiable to keep your behavior compeletly constant.

[Beefy187]

Last choice of the kill was a hard one. I was either going to kill Andres or Quintus.

I didn't consider killing Reenk (I can't anyway) or taka as I was counting on their support and I had a feeling if I left Andres and Quintus alive, they'll both come for me.

I chose Quintus simply because he looked more innocent and harder to get to lynch where as there were some who thought Andres was the God Father.

[White_eyes:D]

Last choice of the kill was a hard one. I was either going to kill Andres or Quintus.

I didn't consider killing Reenk (I can't anyway) or taka as I was counting on their support and I had a feeling if I left Andres and Quintus alive, they'll both come for me.

I chose Quintus simply because he looked more innocent and harder to get to lynch where as there were some who thought Andres was the God Father.

didn't help that I had net problems either.......:juggle2: I couldn't get my write-up to you.....:shame:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I thought Andres had a real shot at being the Godfather until the final round. If he wasn't a henchman, with the remaining players alive, I considered him the Godfather as much as I considered Taka the Godfather. I thought there was a chance Beefy was, but after his dazzling performance, I kinda wanted him to have it. And I couldn't let go of Reenk.

It was to me between Reenk and Andres until that round, and I pegged Reenk... because from my perspective, I couldn't fathom a townie behaving in such a random way, with reasonless votes which could have gotten him lynched, especially with me calling for his head.

Apparently it was just a little bit TOO suicidal... with Sasaki defending him, I was more sure because of Ares' vigilante writeup. Too many things came together for me to think Reenk was innocent. But they were all very, very bad accidents combined with Reenk's Reenkosity.

The ending to this game was the epitome of Reenktitude! (A good thing!) :yes:

[Andres]

GeneralHankerchief, you must be one of the most evil men on this planet :mean:

Congratulations to our mafiosi, Beefy187, White_Eyes:D and Tevashzat :bow: You did a wonderful job.

And thank you GH for hosting this one. It's been a while since a game grabbed my attention like this.

And thank you to both the mafia and townies for letting me live that long. It's been ages since I made it to the end game alive.

:bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

:medievalcheers:

A round of drinks for Andres!

This guy helps moderate the Gameroom, and helped moderate this game in particular, and that's saying a lot. Cheers to Sigurd too.

You deserved to live to the very end; your performance this game hardly triggered anyone's scum detection, so you must have been doing something right. Better to copy your performance from this game the next time you're a mafia, as best you can. :wink:

[naut]

Great game GH. :bow:

Well played all.

[Askthepizzaguy]

And another thought about ATPG. You called me master of patience and clearly you lack patience But I respect your ability to convince the town to lynch who you want and I respect the scum rather which can point out scummy behavior of others. I played countless of games on the Org but I never ever built my own case against anyone. I usually end up going on the bandwagon or hop on others with the votes already. Your ability to convince the town to lynch who you want is exactly what I need along with your ability to detect scummy players. And your strong will to drag who ever you decided guilty all the way to the chopping board no matter what happens is also nice thing for me to have. I shall call you master too


My personal approach, as determined by my experiences in this game and previous ones. It's not the only method, nor do I claim to be an expert, but Beefy asked for my advice.

Reply to Beefy's wall o text:

(In classic Pizzaguy wall o text format, spoilered for your protection, everyone!)
I cannot convince the town to lynch who I want. As you can see, by the end, I was largely ignored, and good thing too! What I can do is I can scour the thread looking for odd behavior like no one else, or darn close to it. Many others have excellent analysis, especially Sasaki's and all the other people you mentioned who got it right about you. But I read this thread at least 20 times from start to finish, scrutinizing every single post from the perspective of "if they were town", and then again "if they were mafia". That much reading and the two different perspectives did help in the beginning with Tevash. I have to adjust my scumdar for Reenk and just flip a coin on him until I get a better reading.

There can be no case against an innocent person that is imaginary. I can point at evidence and people can make their own judgment calls. I pointed at Reenk Roink's evidence and the (correct) judgment call was that it was a red herring, and typical Reenksterism.

So, I am not some mind control expert, nor am I especially charismatic. As you see, I can even grate on people's nerves. All I can do is sit at my desk and look for odd behavior until it would cause most people's eyes to rot clean out of their skulls. That's my one talent. Presenting a case, I could get better at. I'm ok but it is too much for most people to want to read, so thats getting fixed.

ADVICE on getting someone lynched:

Why do you want them lynched? Is there a reason YOU think they are scummy? Or even if you're a mafia, why would the town want someone lynched? Go back and look at all of their posts. I mean really, really look at them. Is there anything out of the ordinary? Is it a fair assessment that it is out of the ordinary? Is there something strongly inconsistent about their behavior or strategy? Are they being too much of a leader, or too much of a follower? Are they looking for suspects? Who are their suspects? What is their reasoning? Have they been discussing? Are they lurking? What is the quality of their posts? Have they been absent from the forums for a long time unexplained? Are they on more than usual? Less than usual? Are their posts longer than usual or shorter? More posts or less than usual? Is there anything in the writeup implicating them? Have they been pressured by vote or argument in the game? Was that pressure or argument enough to realistically worry them if they were mafia? Do they seem overly defensive about themselves or someone else? Who did they vote for? Who did they unvote? How often did they unvote? Did they abstain and why? What is their sense of humor like? Are they being unusually humorous or humorless?

You find something out of sorts, and most everyone else isn't triggering your web of detection, then make a case and see what people think, and vote however you like. When you die, you are no longer responsible for the town's fate. It's up to the judgment of your teammates now. Be vigilant after you die, but remember to respect the opinions of your living and dead counterparts, and don't be too dismissive of anyone as a suspect, like I was of you.

You can state why you think the evidence favors someone's innocence, but mostly let them defend themselves, because you cannot know. I broke my rule to defend you this game, Beefy, and look what the result turned out to be.

Don't defend people. State reasons you think they are innocent if you think someone else is a better suspect, but remember you could be wrong, and you did your best and its no longer your call if you are dead, so let it go.

(These are some things I learned this game. Mmmm.... learning experience)

How I went after Tevash was because of the legitimately neutral stance he was taking, and his lack of helpfulness, and his overly defensive reaction to me. That was nothing I could conjure out of thin air, it was there in black and white for everyone to see. No matter how good (or bad, as it turns out) I am, I cannot fabricate evidence, and if I did, I would be worse than a scumbag, I would be a bad townie.

How to build a convincing case:


1. Explain which posts or behaviors seem out of sorts to you, and why, and give reasons why objectively they are not behaving like their usual townie selves, or they aren't behaving like a townie should.

2. (This is advice for me, too) Keep your case brief and to the point. Don't make it personal, and don't take it personally if people don't agree. You did your best, let it go, or simply state at the beginning of the next round "I still think he's guilty" and go on with your business. Don't hound someone all game like I did to Andres and TinCow in Chicago Soiree. That was dumber than anything I've ever done here.

3. Question the person who you are accusing, politely and respectfully, and respond to their rebuttals. Let people make their own judgments. Maybe you were wrong about White_eyes being innocent or Reenk being scum, for example. Won't you feel as foolish as Pizzaguy if you harass them and turn out to be wrong, or overlook them completely and turn out to be wrong? Remember its just a game, and people will start to ignore you if you don't do this briefly, politely, and with good humor.


How to get them deader than a doornail:

4. The evidence should be more than a random anomaly. There needs to be a LOT of coincidental "random anomalies" for the case to be more legitimate than a random guess. Don't base your whole case off of one odd post. Make sure there is enough "circumstantial" evidence to objectively cause someone to be more puzzled about their true loyalties than before.

5. Make your case heard and easy to understand. I'm good at one, need to work on the other.

6. If it is THAT important to you, mention them as a suspect every round, but move on to other suspects. Don't fall into the vendetta trap that I've fallen into a couple times.


What if you're wrong?

7. It's just a game. No one will hate you for messing things up badly. I claim the DUNCE award for Chicago's mess, but I didn't lose any friends over it, just humiliated myself good. Sometimes a little humility comes from a good humiliation. Deal with it. It's part of life.

8. You aren't God. You can't force people to vote for who you want. It's their choice. You're asking for their vote, but you aren't holding a gun to their head. If they listen to your advice and agree with it, and lynch that person, they are equally responsible for the death. You can only claim credit if your suspect was guilty, and only partial credit really. Someone else could have been suspecting them. And if you were wrong, understand that you can be wrong. It happens. Deal with it... part of life.

9. Every time you're wrong, if you pay attention, you learn where you went wrong and become stronger for it.

10. At least people can laugh at your misfortune. Remember, even if you FAIL MISERABLY every mafia game, you will still be welcome purely for entertainment value. I was worried that's where I would be headed if I failed to ID a single mafia. (Phew... missed it by that much... :sweatdrop:)

11. No one is wrong 100% of the time, so give it your best effort.


I think some of the above is good sound advice, even if it's not coming from any kind of expert or authority on mafia games. Clearly a lot of people here are better than me at lots of stuff, given my misread of you and White_eyes, and it didn't fool them.

But I think everyone has something they are good at; if you think I'm good at finding evidence and presenting cases, awesome.(I need to work on aspects of it) And that's the best advice I know how to give on the subject.

And final rule:

12. Try not to annoy people. It may be better to take a break from the thread for a while and cool down, then start fresh. Remember, you're not the only one playing.

(I've learned much of this stuff just from this game... wish I could go back in time and post this before the game started!)

[Beefy187]

Cheers for that ATPG! :2thumbsup:

I'll need it when I start up my Japanese forum for mafia..

Sadly they only got the standard rule site which is harder to use compared to the Org website.
And they use Werewolf theme which is good sometimes but not every single times..

[Jolt]

ARGH! I apologize to you Andres. I had really, REALLY thought you were the GF. Apparently I was wrong. Anyways, VICTORY! :) Well done town.

[Beefy187]

ARGH! I apologize to you Andres. I had really, REALLY thought you were the GF. Apparently I was wrong. Anyways, VICTORY! :) Well done town.

You had a bet of few million dollars iirc:smash:

[Jolt]

I'm still doubtful if you are the GF beefy. ¬_¬' It was that amount of certainty I had that Andres was the GF. :P

[Csargo]

Good job mafia you made the game interesting til the end. :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm still doubtful if you are the GF beefy. ¬_¬' It was that amount of certainty I had that Andres was the GF. :P

With this much certainty, I "knew" it was Reenk Roink. :shame:

Certainty is never certain, and we only ever think we know.


edit: bedtime for pizza

[LittleGrizzly]

Awesome game!!

The fake ending really got me as well!

I was kicking myself when it was revealed as taka couldn't believe we abandoned our lynch all lurkers strategy!!

Thankfully we did though

Also thankfully people didn't listen to grizz, useless or a distraction this game mainly...

Just couldn't get my head round Reenks behaviour... will now for future reference that Reenk acts kinda scummy normally...

[TinCow]

I believe I somehow forgot to thank GH for his efforts here. This was easily the most entertaining game I've ever had as a townie. Whatever your objectives were for this game, I'm certain you exceeded them. :bow:

[Quintus.JC]

The curse of GH continues...


:balloon2:Well done town!:balloon2:

So it was a mafia triangle of Beefy, white_eyes and Tevash after all, and I have to say very well played mafia. Beefy especially, who gave a brilliant performance throughout, and only got lynched because the suspect list was significantly narrowed down at the end, even then, it would of been a complete different ending at all. Great play Beefy . :applause:

I think the scariest part was when mafia got town 2 on 4, with Beefy and White_Eyes still alive, they so easily could of won it back then and that, kudos to the team of the dead (Sasaki, Tincow and Seamus?) for pointing out their suspicion and helping the town at that point, it was a real close shave, and could of had a completely different turn out. :bow:

Tevash kind of made a mess of it when he didn't back up his detective claim, and made worse for himself when he didn’t come back and berate the town after his lynch. Although it did little to implicate Beefy and White Eyes, so no harm was done there. White Eyes I thought had a fabulous game, the write-ups was excellent, and he managed to live till the second last round, a most impressive achievement. :2thumbsup:

After reading the fake ending I made a note to myself; always lynch Taka, looks like I won’t be needing that note anymore. Andres deserves praises for nailing Beefy at the end. Reenk… well Reenk’s style of play just confused me to bits, and in the end he just looked too risky as a Godfather, all the vote switching just made him look more innocent, as he really could of taken a much easier route to victory if he was the GF. :yes:

And congratulations to all townies, we’re the best! ~:)

And the MVP player goes to…

GeneralHandkerchief – for playing host to this most wonderful game, this will always be remembered as one of the greatest mafia game ever held in the org. :bow:


Also special thanks towards Beefy, no one deserved it more than you :thumbsup:

[shlin28]

Amazing game! :bow:

Good job town, you did mighty well without the guidance of your TRUE CoP!

:clown:

[seireikhaan]

To those curious:

My apologies for being cryptic in my attempts to sway town discussion. As detective, and being dead, I was quite restricted in what I could say before it got to the realm of revealing post-mortem. Hence why the cryptic-ness.

Here's what I was going for, and the basis of my suspicions. As detective, I knew it would most beneficial to the town to have me as the CoP- in this way, I could search for grunts with impunity. Of course, I couldn't just reveal to the town in round one, demand Shlin's lynch, and my appointment- GH had told me that it was undetermined the manner in which the new CoP would be elected, so I couldn't bank on being able to survive a night as a revealed detective. Hence, my little "joke vote" for Shlin; I was poking the waters, seeing if anyone would bite and lynch him. Nothing, of course, against Shlin; I had no reasons to think he was guilty, for certain. I simply wanted to maximize my potential. Of course, the town didn't bite round one on Shlin.

When I was killed that night, I was convinced that the mafia had detected my shenanigens. I was positive that someone had picked up on my "testing of the waters", knew that a detective would want CoP for themselves, and hence whacked me. The people who I considered possible suspects dwindled to those most experienced and observant, in particular those who had played previous Godfather games. Sasaki, Seamus, TinCow, Andres, Sigurd, and Reenk in particular. TinCow was my first investigation, and came up innocent- a worthless result, of course, since he could still have been Godfather. However, he was killed very soon after, with Sigurd biting it as well soon after. I thought it for sure that Lord Winter had been a grunt when kills dropped, and hence, I thought Sasaki to be innocent. Andres' behavior seemed very on target. This left Reenk and Seamus. I thought both to be very skilled at reading for these small little details, and as such, I thought them most likely to have picked up on the Shlin vote. As Reenk's behavior became increasingly odd, while Seamus' became ever more analytical, my suspicions turned almost totally to Seamus- Reenk was simply too far out there, in my view, to have been Godfather.

And that, my good fellows, is why for Seamus' lynch. When the game didn't end, I realized something was off, something was amiss. My analysis had clearly been wrong, and as such, I left it to others to win this game. Once more, I've shown myself to be an abysmal townsperson. :shame: It never once occured to me that someone would random.org kill me; I'm such an easy lynch target that I assumed nobody would kill me without spotting my fish for CoP. Plus, I myself am so careful with my kill targets that I almost never pick a random kill, which clouded my mind to the possibility of random killing.

[White_eyes:D]

Not my fault.....Tevash was the one who was Random.ORG killing people, rather then my "get rid of any threats...and keep the more suspicious players around"....:shrug: and for reference....

Count Arch:killed because he often would vote me for no real reason when I was townie and didn't want to risk it this game.
Boudica: Same story...in Dark Vacuum and a few others she bandwagoned me.....yes revenge is petty..:shame:.
TinCow: He was very much on Beefy's tail but backed off....I wanted to limit the numbers of votes if anyone voted for him so he got the weird WIFOM kill write-up, kudos to Reenk for it BTW:2thumbsup:.
LG:I have no idea....he was just unlucky...and my kill write-up that I had in mind seemed to suit him...:laugh4:.
Igormus: I thought he was the detective...I was wrong about that...:juggle2:.
Psychonut: I figured he was the vigilante....was wrong about that too:sweatdrop:.
Ares: "He had a bad feeling about Beefy" do the math...:grin2:.

Again....it was fun.....but felt I should explain why I killed who and what for....:bow: still it was a Great game:clown:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Given the vigilante almost totally pointed the finger at Sasaki Kojiro, and I trusted my feeling that the nudicyclist was a one-shot vigilante and did the writeup himself, and possibly that he could investigate until he found a scum, I totally bought the writeup as being proof of Sasaki's guilt. As Ares explained to me, he hadn't even written the thing, he said (I think) that GH wrote it.

:wall:

If not for Sasaki's sudden attitude reversal regarding me, and the vigilante writeup against him, I might have been more understanding...

:sad:

Sasaki and I are good buddies now, in case anyone wonders. :shakehands: :medievalcheers:
Misunderstandings happen.

[Thermal]

sorry!

I let town down ~:mecry:

Initially Sasaki was using self-preservations obsessively, Didn't seem to defend himself, and miraculously the write ups pointed the finger to someone else, which made me think he'd influed the write up, once pressure was off of him I thought I'd take a chance while I was still alive (i assumed i'd die given the usual pattern) later though when sasaki was really helpful after death and even sticking up for me I changed my mind, I feel very guilty :embarassed: So a big sorry to Sasaki. I just found it hilarious though when ATPG accused us of being mafia partners when i was the one that killed him! :laugh4: (don't hate me sasaki :sweatdrop: ) And I didn't write the write-up, had I known I would have loved too! But I must say that the author did a marvelous job so bravo whoever that was.

And thankyou GH for giving me a half decent role and hosting my favorite game up to date! :balloon2:

Anyway well done town, we won in the end no thanks to me :sweatdrop: Though the beefy intuition was right I still voted the opposite way and GH changing the final write up was very confusing....

[GeneralHankerchief]

And I didn't write the write-up, had I known IC ould i would have loved too! But I must say that the author did a marvelous job so bravo whoever at was.

That was me. Sorry Ares, but I wanted to do at least one kill in the game, and plus I wanted to vary it depending on your selection was. If you had targeted Tevash or White_eyes I would have given them weapons, and had you targeted shlin or Beefy the writeup would have been twice as epic.

[Thermal]

That was me. Sorry Ares, but I wanted to do at least one kill in the game, and plus I wanted to vary it depending on your selection was. If you had targeted Tevash or White_eyes I would have given them weapons, and had you targeted shlin or Beefy the writeup would have been twice as epic.

No it's fine, the write up was hilarious, I'm glad you wrote it, your a skilled writer. :yes:

[Beefy187]

Again, I want to apologize to QJC for non epic write up when he was killed. :sweatdrop:

I promise you that I'll try my best at epic write up when I'm the host :yes:

[seireikhaan]

I'm just disappointed nobody borrowed one of my kills from Netherworld or Spirit Mafia... that would've been.... interesting. :smartass2:

[Beefy187]

I was going to borrow one from Mafia I but it didn't fit the number of people who were left.

Then I went through various Mafia series but I couldn't find anything..

I could've looked into more recent ones..

[White_eyes:D]

I'm just disappointed nobody borrowed one of my kills from Netherworld or Spirit Mafia... that would've been.... interesting. :smartass2:

Until you got Random.ORG killed....I was going to frame you by making my guy eat someones heart as they slowly watched in horror......:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: but....alas, it was not to be....:no:

[Andres]

Something that I have to ask:

GeneralHankerchief, were you intoxicated when you decided that the vigilante was a nude unicyclist?

I mean, why a nude unicyclist?

:inquisitive:

[Jolt]

Something that I have to ask:

GeneralHankerchief, were you intoxicated when you decided that the vigilante was a nude unicyclist?

I mean, why a nude unicyclist?

:inquisitive:

...It's funny.
...And unexpected. Anyone could have been a vigilante except a nude unicyclist.

By the way, White_Eyes, was it you who provided my kill description?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Because I figured it would have made for a cool kill. :beam:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Please explain the Glorious Light reference. That is what totally messed me up bad. I assumed the vigilante was directing that right at me, because seireikhaan was dead and I didn't figure Reenk was the vigilante. (Prometheus reference) That's when I started to suspect it was someone else from the Prometheus game... and immediately I thought Seamus, especially with seireikhaan implying something about Seamus. And so on. But Ares cleared it up when he suggested that people hadn't figured out who he was yet. The Glorious Light reference, the writeup which condemned Sasaki, and Sasaki himself, all together had convinced me the vigilante had killed a certain scumbag and it was Sasaki.

Very, very cruel of you, GH. :laugh2: Add that to Sasaki defending Reenk up and down and Reenk's odd behavior, and Beefy's very cool behavior...

:veryangry: :veryangry: :veryangry: :veryangry:

I was played for a fool! Rar! :furious3:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Pure coincidence.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ah. Cruel Fate frowns upon Pizzaguy once more. :ballchain:

[White_eyes:D]

By the way, White_Eyes, was it you who provided my kill description?
anyone I didn't mention in my "who I killed and why..." was Tevash or Beefys kill :juggle2:

Edit: You got Random.ORG killed I think....:grin2:

[Myrddraal]

Great game, to watch and to play I'm sure. Thanks to GH for hosting.

[Jolt]

anyone I didn't mention in my "who I killed and why..." was Tevash or Beefys kill :juggle2:

Edit: You got Random.ORG killed I think....:grin2:

That is rather sad.

[taka]

commentary up yet? i still wanna know how General hanky linked me mafia with the other game lol

[GeneralHankerchief]

Eventually.

I have all next week off, shouldn't take too long.

[taka]

:beam:

[GeneralHankerchief]

I was originally going to post this with my game commentary, but as it approached 3,000 words I decided to split it up and give it its own post. Plus, it'll whet your appetites a bit. :yes:

What follows is an essay that touches on a couple of topics, most notably reasons why the mafia generally does better than the town on the .Org, and an analysis of playstyles. Please humor me and read it as this is pretty much the only time where I have the full Gameroom's attention to post discourses like this.

My games are always about the Mafia, more specifically how they’re able to strategize with there being few distractions to confuse the town. Naturally, this isn’t the case with everybody. Seamus’s Capo di Tutti Capi series, for example, is about the individual choices people make. A lot of other hosts take complicated mechanics and run the games to see if it works out. A lot of others use it as more of a roleplaying opportunity than anything else. However, I’ve believed for a long time that high drama comes from elsewhere. Like the typical mad scientist, I like to take a mafia team, put them under ever-increasing pressure, and see what comes out after a certain period of time.

I suppose I had always thought this on some level, but I didn’t start truly thinking about it until a bit before the game started. There had been a string of mafia victories on the .Org. Dating back, Chicago Soirée, the Scourge of Ephesus, The Prometheus, The Full Monty, and Midgard II have all ended in town losses with only Fillet Royale breaking the streak in Large games.

My curiosity on this matter only increased when White_eyes brought up the supposed “Curse of GH” in the sign-up thread, where the town usually always wins. I knew this was true, having, you know, hosted the games, but I never really thought about why this was the case. Then, I started looking at the differences my games have from the others. Obviously, I’m well known for hosting vanilla games. But is that the only reason for the town’s disproportionate success in the Mafia series and now the Godfather series as well?

As it turns out, pretty much. The way the games on the .Org have evolved, we’ve always placed more emphasis on the mafia than the town, and the result is numerous complex, sublime, and most importantly effective strategies used by the mafia against a town that is always a couple of steps behind. It had gotten to the point where TinCow and I were having a discussion about possibly putting in substitute objectives for the town as opposed to killing the mafia, and whether those goals could even consider the game a mafia game anymore. Anyway, at the risk of going off on a tangent, the point is that, other things equal, the mafia beats the town on the .Org a significant majority of times.

I have tried to compensate for this, both consciously and unconsciously, by making my Mafia series experience for the mafiosi something akin to the garbage pit sequence in the original Star Wars – things look good at the start, but eventually the walls close in on you from all sides. You and your partner have to first put all the barricades up to buy time, and second think of a proper escape strategy (i.e. endgame plan) since those barricades won’t hold forever. This is doubly true in the Godfather series, speaking from experience. I remember Silver’s Godfather 2 keeping me up at nights, just constantly thinking about strategy and tactics. When do we switch to one kill per night? Do we at all? If we ever go back to two kills, how many holes will that blow in our alibis? Is the twist potentially helpful or harmful? Will nightkilling this person come back to bite us in the future? Will pushing for this person’s lynch? What happens if the Godfather comes under suspicion while I’m still alive? I think it’s this kind of evening of the playing field that always made so attracted to the series in the first place, and why it wasn’t too much of a jump for me to host it.

An alternative explanation for the amount of mafia victories on the .Org as opposed to town victories is game setup itself as opposed to superior strategy. Many of these games have lots of roles, which I believe skews things in the mafia’s favor for the following reasons:

- More ambiguity, and thus room for deceit. It’s easy to infiltrate the town and fake a role PM in a game with a ton of roles, especially secret ones.

- Town exhaustion, especially when there’s multiple mafia factions to be dealt with. The fact that it’s so hard to lynch a mafioso anyway makes a game with multiple “families” that much harder. The best example that comes to mind is the recently completed game, “The Scourge of Ephesus.” Even in Ephesus, when the town was on its game and lynched four villains (Sigurd, CA, Chaotix, and boudica, in that order), an anti-town faction still won.

- Extra firepower. A sudden spike in kills per night can be devastating to the town, especially in the mid- or even endgame. Since the potential for crossfire is low (for the same reason as why it’s so hard to lynch a mafioso) it all adds up to the town in trouble.

Now, this isn’t to say that these games aren’t enjoyable, because they most definitely are. This isn’t to say that they’re unbalanced in favor of the mafia, either, because I know how much time these hosts put into making their games work. As stated in my first paragraph, perhaps the overall theme of their games is simply different than mine.

Personally? I believe that it’s a combination of factors. .Org culture combined with multi-role games combined with hosts looking for something else rather than what I usually strive for. However, the fact remains that the win ratio is not 50-50.

A lot of the veterans in the Gameroom have made names for themselves by being mafiosi: Sigurd, khaan, TinCow, Kagemusha, myself to an extent. The number of people who have achieved reputations as excellent townies is much lower. As a matter of fact, I can only think of two truly great townies: Kommodus, who doesn’t play anymore, and Sasaki Kojiro, who plays intermittently. Likewise, a lot of the excellent mafiosi listed above do not have the same skills as a townie. khaan freely admits that he’s an abysmal townie. TinCow doesn’t go that far but I recall him acknowledging that he’s a better mafioso than he is townie. Personally, I know townie play is and always has been the weakest part of my game.

Ever since the start of the year, I’ve been trying to change that to become a more complete player. I think it’s gotten off to a somewhat decent start, but judging by losses in Ephesus and Chicago Soirée, there’s still a lot of work to be done. I remember reading Sigurd’s commentary for Ephesus, pointing out my “predictability”. That little revelation left me pretty shaken, and I knew that my generally by-the-book, conservative playstyle had to have a makeover, whether it was to be simply more thorough in my examinations of the thread or something more radical.

At some point during the game, The Godfather, Part 3 ceased to be just a standard game for me, but more of an arena in which all of the various townies’ philosophies did battle. To the victor (even if the mafia won, there would still be a victor, for it would be whoever was most on-target) would go my respect, and even possibly my adaptation of that particular style in future games.

At one end of the spectrum, we had those who believed in pure analysis; the true left-brainers of the Gameroom. This town style’s champions were most notably Seamus Fermanagh, who focused, Holmes-like, on discrepancies in behavior as compared to other games, and TinCow, who always looked to write-ups for clues. At the other end was Reenk Roink, who preferred voting by retaliation, and of course, intuition (or, as he preferred to call it, “direct esoteric knowledge that surpasses systems of logic and reasoning, language, and sense perception” :laugh4:). Other styles and their champions that were present in the game were seireikhaan’s usage of vague PMs to try to flush out mafiosi, Sasaki Kojiro’s doing multiple rereads of both the thread and individual posts to try and make sense of them based off of present knowledge as opposed to the past’s obscurity, and, of course, Askthepizzaguy’s raw, promising, but ultimately flawed analysis program Skynet. I’m going to examine each strategy a little bit in-depth and then rule on their ultimate effectiveness, at least in this game:

seireikhaan’s “flush out” strategy: A simple, time-honored strategy: Probe for a reaction. Heck, it’s what everybody does in the thread a lot; the only difference is that khaan did it in private. It can and possibly has worked in the past – it could freeze an inexperienced player and cause him or her to stumble. However, as I mentioned above, I think a lot of players are beyond that by now, especially as mafiosi. In addition, khaan based his initial PM targets off of incomplete reasoning (he failed to determine the true reason for his kill) and thus his efforts were doomed from the start. All in all, I would not use this as a primary strategy in games, although it does have some effectiveness as an augmentation.

TinCow’s “go to the source” strategy: TC has always looked at subtleties in write-ups and analyzed them (and to a lesser extent, behavior) to determine the current state of affairs for the town. In my past two games, Mafia VIII and Godfather 3, he was always at the forefront of trying to decipher my recurring clues: the letters and songs, respectively. He also did much of the same work for Ephesus and probably other games as well that I can’t recall at the moment. This strategy does have its uses; in games where hosts do that sort of thing it can do an amazing job of painting the overall picture and helping the town get on the right long-term course. However, that’s the catch: in games where hosts do that sort of thing. Sometimes the host could be extremely sadistic and throw in a bunch of red herrings. Sometimes the host could give control of a lot of write-ups to a mafioso. Sometimes what the host puts in there is just so complicated and difficult to make anything out of that ultimately it saps the town’s energy. I do have to give TC credit for being the first to try to make sense out of the songs (and, I think, determine that I was the boombox guy), which ultimately (and somewhat unintentionally) helped the town in the end. However, ultimately, this is another good augmentation strategy, but I think overall there’s too much at risk to solely rely on the write-ups.

Seamus Fermanagh’s deviation analysis: Holmes without Holmes, basically. Seamus looks at behavioral patterns and post count, compares them to other games, and bases conclusions off that. It has traditionally been effective and Seamus gets credit for ID’ing Beefy early on for his high post count (beyond one standard deviation). However, there are a couple problems with this, one of them more about the person than the strategy. Seamus, for whatever reason, just simply isn’t as listened to as are some of the other big players like Sasaki and ATPG. I’m not sure why this is; we all know that he’ll usually hit one mafioso before the end of the game. Maybe he lacks the killer instinct the other players have, the switch that some of the other players turn on and doggedly pursue a certain target until he either answers them to satisfaction or is lynched. Maybe, in an effort to stay purely unbiased and scientific he refuses to make conclusions unless he’s absolutely certain, which in turn holds the rest of the people back from following from his lead. I’m not quite sure. The second problem is that this strategy may not hold water in the future. Again, as .Org mafia players get consistently better and better, the patterns and deviations that Seamus looks for will be less and less.

Askthepizzaguy and Skynet: ATPG’s much-maligned program was intended to be a more-than-suitable replacement for Holmes, analyzing players on a variety of factors. However, it had a ton of kinks and questionable parameters. Reading ATPG’s Skynet post-by-post analyses for certain suspicious players, I raised my eyebrows at some of the “suspicious” criteria, such as overall agreement with his ideas or not, and whether a person’s being defensive or not. ATPG does get credit for his effort and putting pressure on Tevash to reveal (in which a lack of follow-up led to his downfall), but Skynet’s greatest flaws were that it was, I think, subjective, and more importantly without context. Yes, Reenk disagrees with you, but if he always does that, wouldn’t that make him less suspicious? Yes, a player might have a certain, mafia-level amount of posts, but does that person normally have that amount? A person may say something suspicious here, but knowing what we know now, does it make sense given that person’s situation at that time? Add ATPG’s effort into application of context and Skynet could have been a major weapon.

Reenk Roink’s operating on a higher level: Frankly, I’m not sure how to describe this one, so I’ll just go with the time-honored maxim: “Reenk is Reenk.” I remember during the pivotal penultimate round, Reenk changed his vote to White_eyes on the grounds that he “woke up and determined White_eyes was guilty”. I think for purposes of discussion we’ll call this gut instinct. Reenk will laugh at me for trying to scientifically prove that going with your gut is more or less accurate than any of the other methods, and I know I can’t. All I’ll say in this case is that two noted gut advocates, Reenk and AggonyDuck, have been more right than wrong, and that at least one more (Silver Rusher, the creator of this series), for all his wonderful qualities, couldn’t name a mafioso to save his life. So either you have it or you don’t. I suppose that your gut instinct could, over a long period of time, improve with experience, but you wonder if it’s your gut or just something small in a person’s post that alerts you. Anyway, with his instrumental role in getting first White_eyes and then Beefy lynched, Reenk and his style is definitely one of the victors of the overall struggle, so much so that I decided to adapt his strategy in Andres’s “King Wahaha” mini-game and just say “screw it” to all of my previously-held principles. In the second round, I said that I had pretty conclusive evidence that taka was guilty, even though I had no such thing. I refused to explain myself, and while the town lost that game, it turns out that taka *was* guilty. This was simply my application of Reenk’s usual style. I think I’ll continue doing so in future games, although to a moderate extent, since doing so too much would probably fry my brain.

Yes, Reenk’s style is good, especially for the people that “have it”, but in this game one other style trumped his:

Sasaki Kojiro and the search for context: There’s something in the Godfather series that brings out the best in Sasaki. First in GF1 he, as the Mafia Mastermind manipulated everyone, including me as the Godfather, to a Total Mafia Victory. Then in GF2, despite pretty much everyone believing in his mafiosery, he almost singlehandedly turned the tables on the bad guys and directed the town to victory. Now in GF3, despite being rusty, he still correctly identified the entire trio of villains and significantly aided in the town’s comeback. How did he do this? Simple – by following the standard Sasaki method of operation. Make early and mid-game accusations, get said people lynched, analyze the direction the game goes in, and then around the endgame reread the thread and revise your conclusions based on how much sense the living people made back then knowing what we know now. Sasaki’s long post that probably doomed White_eyes and Beefy linked then and Tevash together by looking at their overall patterns and the implications of their actions. In other words, he did what Skynet did not by putting things into context. Sasaki’s town philosophy takes a lot of work, particularly in longer games with a lot of information (like mine), but on the other hand it is precisely these types of games where he is most accurate. Results is definitely proportional to the amount of effort you put in. This is true as host, mafioso, and townie, and Sasaki displays it here with another great game as townie.

So yes, Sasaki’s philosophy was the most effective, at least in this game. Am I going to use it? Possibly, although I’m not going to totally copy his style. Every strategy I’ve listed above, as well as the less obvious ones that I didn’t, has its merits, including my own personal, unrefined style that I’ve tried to work on over the years. An amalgamation may be best, copying Seamus’s numerical devotion with Reenk’s hunches, combined with Sasaki’s application of context.

In the end though, town style is your own personal decision and an extremely important one at that. Perhaps, if people spend enough time improving and perfecting theirs, the .Org Mafia players could resolve the discrepancy in Mafia:Town victories in the best way possible for all sides: the town closing the gap by improving their play. After all, improved play on both sides can only lead to better and more exciting games for all involved. :2thumbsup:

[Askthepizzaguy]

quick response, as I've had plenty of time to talk:


It does have an intimidation factor that seemed to almost force the mafia to behave a certain way, even in their own words. Fortunately/Unfortunately, you do identify the flaws in my reasoning quite well. And once again, this information will be assimilated and... we will adapt.

:bow:

[Reenk Roink]

Good stuff GH, thanks. :bow:

[Jolt]

quick response, as I've had plenty of time to talk:


It does have an intimidation factor that seemed to almost force the mafia to behave a certain way, even in their own words. Fortunately/Unfortunately, you do identify the flaws in my reasoning quite well. And once again, this information will be assimilated and... we will adapt.

:bow:

I told you shlin did the things senselessly. I didn't had the time to reply, but when he posted "I bet a million dollars that I'm not a mafia" I immediatly noticed he was innocent. Since you had a massive case already built against him due to his rather non-logicality of his actions, and since he was already going to be lynched, the fact that he was "betting" that he was innocent wasn't gonna change anything, but he still did it anyway, as a way of saying "I know I'm innocent and you'll lose this bet" so to speak. I already had sincere doubts he was anywhere near being a mafioso, much less the godfather, and when he made that post, it basically confessed the townieness of shlin. Things are not always logical, as RR method's show. I for one, also many times judge, vote or say things based on irrational speculation of gut instinct, thus when you ask me to explain myself, I can't since I didn't act logically in the first place, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm Mafia. If anything, Mafia acts logically.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Things are not always logical, as RR method's show. I for one, also many times judge, vote or say things based on irrational speculation of gut instinct, thus when you ask me to explain myself, I can't since I didn't act logically in the first place, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm Mafia. If anything, Mafia acts logically.

This is a very good point. Oftentimes a person who gives a very satisfactory, complete defense turns out to be mafia, because they have to cover their tracks and make sure every action they take makes sense from a townie perspective. On the other hand, townies don't think about this, they just try to find the mafia.

-edit- 2,000 more posts and we pass Capo II. :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

*takes notes... :stupido:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I would say that gut instinct is the best method for finding mafia, but like all instincts it requires experience to back it up. If you've ever played pool I'm sure you've noticed that at times you can sink every shot without thinking about it--if you've practiced enough so that you know what you have to do for each shot. Mafia is a lot more distracting than playing pool however--and your personal biases and blinders can distract your gut. Your head or some emotion can take over and pretend to be your gut if that makes any sense.

Analysis of post counts and write ups are important but won't find mafia imo. The "probing style" can often lead to good results, I think as a prober you have to do a full reveal of what you were up to quite quickly though else you risk distracting. If possible reveal to a second party privately what you intend to do. The problem with skynet is that first, a lot of the criteria used are faulty--mafioso appearing in the center of of the post count list for example--and second, it's not a good strategy to post a comprehensive list before endgame. The way Kommodus ran holmes, he'd wait till round 5 or six before posting any results and then focus on the key players and who he thought was guilty. We don't want to let the mafia know who we think is innocent, and it's always nice if they kill of our suspects. I'm guilty of saying people are suspicious when it isn't necessary myself. The problem with gut is that while it can work well ID'ing mafia, it's useless for convincing people--and without a solid reread you can be basing your gut of off something you just remembered wrong (kommo always said one of the most useful features of holmes was that it allowed an easy review of each persons posts).

The reason I think mafia often win is that people don't enjoy being townie that much. Not many make it their goal to make the case on a mafioso and get them lynched, which in turn makes it harder to tell whether people are town or not. It's also a lot of work and can be a pain, lol :laugh4:

Basically, being a mafioso is fun and games for the most part (sans detective), while being townie is a constant struggle. But that is what makes being townie that much more rewarding.

[seireikhaan]

Interesting report, GH.

Yes, my probe wasn't all that useful. Partly because of limitations upon the "probe" due to being dead, partly because I was trying to probe Seamus of all people, and, of course, the fact that I far over-analyzed the situation to begin with and was totally wrong on the whole account to begin with.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yeah you totally overanalyzed the situation. You gotta stop doing that man.

Wait... :inquisitive:

That's me, not you. :laugh2:

[Sigurd]

Great game GH, from what I have read. :sweatdrop:

I particularly liked your analysis. It gave me a realization that I easily fall off the train in post intensive games when having a vanilla townie role. I try to catch up by running after it, but can't keep up. It might be that I don't play vanilla town well and need perhaps a small role or something that will get the tactic gears running. I will need to look into that in future games.

As an addition to what you have all said about townie tactics, I will add a couple more. I have used them in some of the games I have played with various degrees of success.

- What would I have done if I were mafia.
I did apply this in the start of this game and I think I mentioned that I would have chosen TevashSzat as a grunt If I where the Godfather.
Having played as mafioso a number of times both successfully and maybe not so successfully, you get a sense of what works and what don't. It's all about backup plans and dynamic tactics and if you are allowed by the host - manipulation, manipulation, manipulation. In games where I as mafioso can dictate what is put into the night results, are the most fun games IMO. Some mafiosi might have quails about this and think that they might get easily detected based on write style analysis or similar methods. This is not so true, if you have the opportunity to manipulate the writeup, do so and you can lead the town in circles by placing false leads and/or frame players.
This method is probably not the best tool to catch mafiosi in general, but in games where mafia have a choice to for example choose their grunts, you could strike gold.

- Play unpredictable (crazy townie)
This was something I did to keep the mafia from killing me off in the first rounds of a game, and you can probably blame GH for it :beam:.
I applied it in Godfather II and contributed (at least I think so ... ) to the downfall of a great team of mafiosi. It creates a disruption and maybe the control mafiosi might have on a game. Unfortunately you might also create a disturbance in the town effort. RR has also played this way in a number of games.
The object is to create a diversion that might result in mafiosi getting nervous enough to make mistakes. One tool is insane accusations or general bully behaviour. While doing this, you analyze responses more or less in the same way as the method attributed to khaan by GH in his analysis.
This works well dead as alive. The mafiosi will be reluctant to kill you off as they want to lynch you to silence you.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think that there are things that, as a group, generic townies can do to help establish their townie-ness. An individual can fake being a townie, but there should be intelligent behaviors that we can do as a group which make it harder on being the mafia.

For one:

early game tied votes between 2-4 people. Pro-town roles caught in this wide net can covertly suggest to someone random to please save them. Odds are, they can maintain their role, and if they don't come forward eventually, the person they revealed to can accuse them of just being scum. Tied votes, especially at one vote apiece for many suspects, make it harder for the mafia to defend themselves. They just have to chance it. If they switch their votes to save themselves, it gets suspicious. And there's a decent enough chance that we will actually randomly kill a mafia early, or get it sent to a runoff with them involved, where their voting patterns may (suspiciously) change, or stay the same. There shouldn't be bandwagons of like 9 votes on 1 person and 4 on another. Unless someone reveals as a detective and accuses someone of being scum. And even then, the detective should probably be on that list within a few votes of the leader. Keeping votes close allows late turn vote shifting, and that gives us clues or allows us to correct a mistake. Kind of hard to stop a guy with 9 votes from dying, whereas it's not hard to unvote someone 3 different times.

There are other behaviors which should help townies be townies;

Benefit of the Doubt:
If a person is nearing the chopping block, and is a townie with or without a role, and for some reason wants to survive a couple more rounds, they could request a stay of execution. But, the condition for that is, they must vote themselves either 1 or two rounds later, and not change their vote, and people should lynch them to be sure. Especially effective after the mafia have already lost a murder per round. Added bonus: not likely to be murdered by mafia too, or, they could be murder bait on purpose. Always better for generic townies to be murdered.

Early game lynches:
In spite of a recent game, it's still very difficult to randomly nail a mafia on the first round. A townie should step forward and volunteer for the lynch to protect any pro-town roles from getting accidentally smashed, thus eliminating one suspect and protecting the protown role without having to step forward or even lay low. I'd volunteer. I prefer to die on a non-critical round. But I won't do it every game, or even half of them, because I also want to be murder bait, and there are rare occasions when I have a protown role.

I'm thinking about and reviewing games regarding detective/doctor/mason/roleblocker tactics, too. No plan is foolproof but I think there has to be a way of increasing the odds of success.

In short, I figure there are ways of improving the game of the entire group where, even if the mafia also conform to the strategy or try to find ways around it, it still helps the town.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

An informative and well argued discourse GH. Personally I think its a brilliant thing where there so many differing styles of play, analysis and personal gut instincts. It makes things interesting.

@ ATPG: The townie offering themselves for a lynch first round has been tried before. It wasn't overly successful as PK, who was the said townie, was still suspect throughout the game, people had some feeling that he was the ballsiest mafioso ever... Of course with myself being mafia in that game I shamelessly exploited his 'innocence' and got him onside early, and that worked to my advantage. I'd be interested to see it tried again, but I doubt many people like the idea of being the first lynched.

[Beefy187]

*takes notes... :stupido:

Seconded. All the infos here is amazing. I shall copy it and reread it over and over :book:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh, by no means should it be used to determine innocence.

However, if that person WAS mafia... all the better for town, and all the more foolish for mafia. It's more of... someone's gotta die, might as well be someone we are sure isn't a protown role.

[TinCow]

Excellent post, GH. I agree with everything you said. I noted Sasaki's play style very early in this game and have been trying to learn from it. It does indeed seem to be the most effective. I do see value in write-up analysis, and have yet to encounter a game in which it is totally useless. In games where the write-ups are written by the mafia, the style of the writing can be very telling. Though I failed to follow up on it, it's worth noting that I was accurate in my initial profiling of the person/people that created the first write-up. In games where the write-up is done by the host, there always seems to be a hint or a clue somewhere, even if it's just character continuity. The key, IMO, is to use this as a simple piece of evidence in the overall picture.

First, take a look at the game and figure out what kind of a game it is. It should be pretty easy to tell generally how much useful information will be in the write-ups. Games with clues will have obvious clues. Games with mafia-created write-ups will be well-known beforehand. Games with many detailed role descriptions written by the host will give clues as to which specific person killed which target. Games with none of these may have useful information, but it will be harder to find. Second, take a look at the evidence that is being produced from the write-ups. Strong arguments and weak arguments are easily recognizable simply by how much sense they make and how consistent they are with the situation. Finally, add these two factors together to determine the overall weight of the write-up evidence. Strong arguments in games that have high promise for useful write-ups should be given more weight. As the usefulness of the write-ups and the strength of the argument decreases, so should the weight given to any write-up analysis. In any case, even at maximum strength, I would never consider write-up analysis at anything more than 49% of the reason to vote for someone (unless there's literally nothing else to work with). Often 25% to 33% seems a more appropriate figure. Write-ups are best used as reasons to FoS people and put pressure on them. They should not be used exclusively to lynch.

On a personal level, I've found myself delving towards the write-up analysis simply because I can do it and because I'm still learning the 'trade' of mafia detection in other areas. I don't even count Capo as one of my games, because I really had no idea what I was doing and no coherent plan of any kind. Capo was my mafia 'tutorial' and after it was over, I was ready to play the real game. Of my next 4 games, I was mafia in 3 of them. As such, I feel like my efforts as a townie really began with Ephesus and Chicago and continued on into this game. It's easy for me to tell when I don't know what I'm doing, and I've found my own flaws are in my difficulty in IDing strange behavior. In the first two games, I thought this was because I simply did not know peoples' normal play style due to a simple lack of experience. In this game, Sasaki gave me an epiphany with his explanation that we needed to look for inconsistencies in posts. This is what I did when I built my case against shlin, and I was pleased with the product, even if the result was lyching an innocent. I will continue to do write-up analysis when I deem it worthwhile according to the above formula, but I am going to put more effort into Sasaki's proven (and common sense) methodology.

I think my biggest crutch is my posting style. I write in a very deliberate manner that people seem to listen to. While this is great if I'm mafia, it can be a huge hindrance when I'm a townie. It's no good for people to listen to me and vote based on my reasoning if my reasoning is wrong, and it often is. I actively need other people to point out flaws in my analysis, as that is the best way to make sure that any error I make does not damage the town's efforts. Even more importantly, I need to be careful that I do not mount major attacks designed to get a target lynched unless my evidence is very, very strong. Above all, I need to (and try to) remain flexible in my thinking. There is no shame in backing off of a case one has mounted if the counter-arguments are stronger than your own. The key is to get the end result right, not to out-argue the other players. There will always be more good ideas produced by others than you will produce yourself. These need to be identified and embraced.

Above all, I think the town needs to remember that it a team effort working on a large puzzle. No single theory is best, though some are stronger than others. Town efforts seem to work when the totality of the system comes together to produce a mosaic of information from which the various analysis styles can work in harmony. If done properly, the mafia will pop up in the sights of more than one of these styles of analysis. When this convergence occurs, the probability of a good lynch skyrockets. For this reason, townie cooperation and participation is the key to victory, even amongst the dead. The more people who are legitimately trying to analyze the game and locate the mafia, the more likely the town will win. It is easier for the mafia to win when there are only a couple dominant voices because it is easy to assume that role and intentionally lead the town astray. It is far harder for the mafia to win when there are a multitude of strong town voices, none of which disappear after death.

[Askthepizzaguy]

...The key is to get the end result right, not to out-argue the other players. There will always be more good ideas produced by others than you will produce yourself. These need to be identified and embraced.

Above all, I think the town needs to remember that it a team effort working on a large puzzle. No single theory is best, though some are stronger than others. Town efforts seem to work when the totality of the system comes together to produce a mosaic of information from which the various analysis styles can work in harmony. If done properly, the mafia will pop up in the sights of more than one of these styles of analysis. When this convergence occurs, the probability of a good lynch skyrockets. For this reason, townie cooperation and participation is the key to victory, even amongst the dead. The more people who are legitimately trying to analyze the game and locate the mafia, the more likely the town will win. It is easier for the mafia to win when there are only a couple dominant voices because it is easy to assume that role and intentionally lead the town astray. It is far harder for the mafia to win when there are a multitude of strong town voices, none of which disappear after death.The entire thing was a good read, TinCow, but from this point on in your post, I felt as though I was in the presence of a professor. Will remember these lessons here very much.

:bow: sensei TinCow

[Reenk Roink]

The synergistic townie analysis play style sounds good, and maybe I will go back and play it sometime, but as for now, the strategy that I like the most to do is eliminate all townies (through manipulation of the Mafia, strategic voting, and outright false accusations) that don't share your POV so you may wield total influence. :grin:

[Askthepizzaguy]

The synergistic townie analysis play style sounds good, and maybe I will go back and play it sometime, but as for now, the strategy that I like the most to do is eliminate all townies (through manipulation of the Mafia, strategic voting, and outright false accusations) that don't share your POV so you may wield total influence. :grin:

It's bold, I'll give you that. But it does tend to make one a suspect, and...

What if I had been successful in doing just that? We would have lost. So you're essentially banking the game on your own judgment above all the others.

In this case, it would have worked out fine for you, I suppose... hmmm.... carry on! :laugh2:

[Reenk Roink]

Since coming back to play Mafia I have only been lynched twice. Once in your game and just now in Ares' game. Both were random tiebreaker lynches too.

So thanks townies for the free ride. :bow:

suckers :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Until I can get a better reading on you, Reenkster, I'll be voting: Reenk Roink in the first round of every game I am in unless I vote for myself. Sort of like the vote: Sasaki tradition. You would want me dead anyways, so perhaps I would like to steal your strategy and eliminate you early.

:laugh4: A taste of your own medicine... mmmm.... :nurse:

[TinCow]

The synergistic townie analysis play style sounds good, and maybe I will go back and play it sometime, but as for now, the strategy that I like the most to do is eliminate all townies (through manipulation of the Mafia, strategic voting, and outright false accusations) that don't share your POV so you may wield total influence. :grin:

This is the essence of the prisoner's dilemma for individual players in mafia games. Since we mostly play with the same people over and over again, it is impossible to take the broader 'reputation' issue completely out of the game. We judge others based on their actions in previous games, and in turn people act in various ways as a townie intentionally to give themselves a better shot at victory when they are mafia. Thus, every game has not only its own victory to consider, but there is also a strong incentive for many individual players to further their own long-term strategies, even if it means under performing in, or losing, an individual game.

This reminds me a lot of Risk. I had a regular group of friends in high school who played Risk together every couple months. It was always the same group of people, so reputation for trustworthiness or lackthereof was a huge factor in the inevitable alliance/diplomacy side of the game. One of my friends once broke a pact with me and back stabbed me in one of those games. While entirely legal, it so damaged his long-term reputation that he found it very hard to make alliances in future games and was at something of a permanent disadvantage. At the same time, the rest of us noted our reaction to this particular guy and were ourselves afraid of breaking a pact in a similar manner because of the long-term consequences, even if breaking that pact would be the difference between winning and losing.

I have no lessons or advice to give in regards to this situation; I'm not even sure if there are any. I guess my point is simply that this is a factor in any game of this nature where people play against each other over and over again. It poses its own unique problems and means that people may sometimes be willing to lose a game they could win because they don't want to expose their own 'tell.'

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ouch... I just realized something.

I find myself totally unconcerned with reputation and play on a game-by-game basis. I never play any less than my best try or alter my strategy in a way that allows for long term success if I feel it sacrifices the short term. As such, I also tend to forgive others their trespasses in previous games. A mafia who lied or a player who backstabbed me good I tend to see as a useful and manipulative potential partner down the line. Of course, I'll be sure not to believe everything they say so blindly... but that kind of guile and deceit is its own virtue in a game such as this.

[Quintus.JC]

but that kind of guile and deceit is its own virtue in a game such as this.

That is in fact the sheer essence of the game.

Not a game for the honest I'm afraid. :no:

Edit: I still remember Curio's PMs to be on my first game - Mafia VIII. Amongst the confusion he earned my trust, even though it didn't matter since I couldn't do much anyway.

[White_eyes:D]

I heard in the prevoius "Godfather" games, the songs were random stuff that had nothing to do with the game.......:inquisitive: thanks to those songs, Sasaki was able to confirm when I died and link me to Beefy and Tevash with real evidence......me thinks GH give town a bone with those songs.....:book:


The confusion that was created: It also had to do with the write-ups we used.....it got everyone thinking...."maybe it is the one who wrote it?" of course, more veteran players dismissed it as WIFOM.....but it gave them very little to go on...."Gut feelings" is what made us lose very badly on "Chiacigo Soiree" and the fact that Khaan gave little to no clues "like a song about lurking or something would have helped:shrug:".....allowing them to clean sweep town as are "gut feelings" lynched each other.....basically if there is no evedience, it is highly unlikely you will get a mafiso, on feelings alone.


That's why I was upset that GH gave songs hinting at when one of us was lynched, linking us to Tevash.....but then I figured....without it town would never catch us...:clown:

Edit: I still love TinCow's words......it was so true.....:laugh2:

[GeneralHankerchief]

There were no songs in either of the previous games.

In Godfather 2, Silver Rusher put in bolded place names. Some of them meant absolutely nothing, some of them pointed to the Godfather (Csar, now Ichigo) in much more direct ways than any of my clues did. And as you'll see in the commentary (it's coming! :laugh4:), some of the clues were pretty dense.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I heard in the prevoius "Godfather" games, the songs were random stuff that had nothing to do with the game.......:inquisitive: thanks to those songs, Sasaki was able to confirm when I died and link me to Beefy and Tevash with real evidence......me thinks GH give town a bone with those songs.....:book:


I don't think the songs had much to do with it. The song after tevash's lynch was vague and most people thought he was guilty anyway, and I would have reread keeping an eye out for two mafiosi alive even without the "tonight, tonight" song. Even if the assumption had been that LW and tevash were mafia, beefy would most likely have been pointed to.

[TinCow]

Edit: I still love TinCow's words......it was so true.....:laugh2:

It was almost true. However, it was really Sasaki's case (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2152445&postcount=1635) against you and Beefy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2152549&postcount=1644) that ultimately led to your loss. His arguments were extremely well built and the only reason I didn't wholeheartedly start promoting them was the lingering thought that Sasaki might be mafia due to being 'vig' killed. While they were a bit slow to gain traction, they were the last heavily critical analysis in the game. Sasaki's posts were the ones that promoted you and Beefy as legitimate lynch votes. Eventually people came around and that was the foundation that got you lynched.

It is also worth noting that Tevash got lynched due to ATPG's initial Skynet post. That post resulted in a lot of pressure on Reenk and Tevash. This ultimately resulted in Tevash revealing, and his failure to follow up that reveal got him lynched. Without ATPG's Skynet post, I doubt Tevash would have been lynched at that point in the game. ATPG's main failing was that his subsequent posting style was so heavy and so uncompromising that he ended up losing a lot of the credibility he gained with the initial post. While people thus stopped listening to him later on, that doesn't change the fact that it really was ATPG was caused Tevash's lynch.

So, the end result is that all three of you were lynched as a direct result of focused analysis efforts made by townies. Thus, the historical footnote on my quote will always be that despite the massive amount of analysis and information that produced nothing at all, there was a small amount that not only contributed, but resulted in a town victory.

[White_eyes:D]

Funny thing is:juggle2:.....you almost won a townie victory at the start....you almost got beefy lynched for the poor grammer in Tevash's kill write-up...:laugh4: so as a result.....we made it 11 rounds before Sasaki nailed us.....and even then town was still confused as hell:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Edit: and in your kill write-up I put "BEEFED" in it.....but because of the TinCow name...(I guess:shrug:) and also how I used Reenks kill write-up, made you guys confused as could be.....:laugh2: and not question Beefys innocence:smiley:

[White_eyes:D]

You guys need to understand that it was hard for me and Beefy..:dizzy2: I had never really been a Mafia in a large game before....Beefy was also the Godfather and would have diffculties doing any write-ups. I myself have never done a write-up of any kind before..(hence, why I copied many of the previous write-ups I had seen in the past....). We also were up against many known veterans.....and losing Tevash hurt us in the long run.....I even made that fake PM....but he never used it....but I had said I would go on till the end, and I did:smash:.

[TinCow]

You should be very pleased with your performance. You came very, very close to victory. I seriously doubt many people could have done better.

[White_eyes:D]

You should be very pleased with your performance. You came very, very close to victory. I seriously doubt many people could have done better.

Just know that I learned much of my Mafia playstyle, from Reenk on "Whispers in the night"....:grin2:

Reenk= Master Mauipation(damn vista, no spell check) "He's like Nam.....he always is most dangrous, when he is quiet....:clown:" He almost always gets town to do what he wants....and as you saw I got a few people to change there votes to Reenk at the end.....Reenk soundedly whooped me in that....HE EVEN encourged me to get more people to vote for him....:wall:

[Askthepizzaguy]

It was almost true. However, it was really Sasaki's case (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2152445&postcount=1635) against you and Beefy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2152549&postcount=1644) that ultimately led to your loss. His arguments were extremely well built and the only reason I didn't wholeheartedly start promoting them was the lingering thought that Sasaki might be mafia due to being 'vig' killed. While they were a bit slow to gain traction, they were the last heavily critical analysis in the game. Sasaki's posts were the ones that promoted you and Beefy as legitimate lynch votes. Eventually people came around and that was the foundation that got you lynched.

It is also worth noting that Tevash got lynched due to ATPG's initial Skynet post. That post resulted in a lot of pressure on Reenk and Tevash. This ultimately resulted in Tevash revealing, and his failure to follow up that reveal got him lynched. Without ATPG's Skynet post, I doubt Tevash would have been lynched at that point in the game. ATPG's main failing was that his subsequent posting style was so heavy and so uncompromising that he ended up losing a lot of the credibility he gained with the initial post. While people thus stopped listening to him later on, that doesn't change the fact that it really was ATPG was caused Tevash's lynch.

So, the end result is that all three of you were lynched as a direct result of focused analysis efforts made by townies. Thus, the historical footnote on my quote will always be that despite the massive amount of analysis and information that produced nothing at all, there was a small amount that not only contributed, but resulted in a town victory.

That's all I was really looking for. Thank you TinCow. :bow:

I freely admit my failings after round 6. And Sasaki does deserve a lion share of credit. Were it not for his independent analysis, we might have missed the other two. And I agree, the more analysts we have, the better. I'll work on shortening and tightening my case, and also very much listening to other people's cases.

Analysis itself seems to have been painted this game as possibly being a waste of time, but it seems clear that analysis in general got all three of them. Random votes are ok if you have got nothing, but I always believed reasoned votes are better.

[Thermal]

One thing none seem to have picked up on is that players that guess things often look like there helping when really there disguising there role, e.g.

after a write up

'maybe we have a mason pair in his game?'
or
'maybe we have a reviver'

etc. I picked up on these behaviors and 9/10 the person who says this probably has that role themselves :laugh4:

[Beefy187]

Must..get... more... beef supporters.

Get them to trust me blindly. That way all the accusation against me will be useless :beam:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Don't look too far, Beefy. I am a zombie, after all. That's another way of saying.... I'm meat that is still alive. :laugh2:

I follow the evil cow.... the zombie cow.

edit:
Beefy wanted me to write a song about him, based on "American Idiot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaK-_UxkxUo)" by Green Day. (Seriously, he did.) Here it is.






Beefy187
based on American Idiot by Green Day
New lyrics by Askthepizzaguy




Don't wanna be made entirely out of Beef
Especially not when I am playing Mafia
And can you hear the sound of the lynch mob?
They're coming to lynch Beefy once again.

Welcome to Beefy's dillemma
They're always coming to kill ya
He's the town's most popular lynch target

With futile dreams of tomorrow
Beefy's life will always end in sorrow
For the town will always lynch you

Well maybe he'll come to America
And be part of a flame-broiled burger
Now everybody order the number three
The Triple Whopper with all the extra cheese

Welcome to Beefy's dillemma
They're always coming to kill ya
He's the town's most popular lynch target

With futile dreams of tomorrow
Beefy's life will always end in sorrow
For the town will always lynch you

Don't want to end up like Beefy187
For he's sure to end up in Beefy heaven
He's the ruler of all of Beefydom
Come on and sing right along with him

Welcome to Beefy's dillemma
They're always coming to kill ya
He's the town's most popular lynch target

With futile dreams of tomorrow
Beefy's life will always end in sorrow
For the town will always lynch you



:thumbsup: :bow: :shakehands: :balloon:

[Askthepizzaguy]

(snip)

******

I apologize for the poor formatting. I don't have the energy to go through and fix it up right now. Will get to the last 20 pages presently.


I only just now read the entire case against beefy. :shame:

Wow. I had deliberately avoided it because I felt it was a scummy attempt to get a townie lynched, not a true analysis. Had I read it, I might have agreed. There were extraordinarily good points in it. Hindsight... You know what? That's it. I refuse to ignore even the people I think are scummy from now on. I'm tired of making such sloppy mistakes. Innocent until PROVEN scummy from now on.

:wall: And no more passes. Let's see... I deliberately avoided analyzing beefy in the first analysis due to the volume of his posts. Then later, I gave him a pass because town always lynches him. Stellar logic.

:wall:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Commentary. I think, despite ATPG's best efforts, this post will still take the cake for longest in the thread. Better luck next time! :laugh4:

Game Start

Godfather: Beefy187
Selected grunts: TevashSzat and White_eyes:D
Detective: seireikhaan
The Secret Weapon (one-time vigilante): 777Ares777

As previously mentioned I think a few times, Silver Rusher’s Godfather series was always my favorite. I particularly enjoyed both games, especially the second one, which was at one point the standard which all other games were measured against until it got lost with time. On a spur-of-the-moment decision about a month before the game started, I decided to try my hand at bringing the series back. I’ll spare you the details of what attracted me to the series in the first place as they have already been discussed at length.

Whenever I had control over the write-ups (the beginning scenes, the end of the mafia kills, the early lynches, etc.) I tried to be as faithful to the original as possible. This was doubly so in the prologue with more than a few references to the Godfather 2 prologue. Of course, nods to my predecessor weren’t enough. Although I pretty much have my own refined set of rules for my Mafia series, Silver played a different game with his set. For the most part I tried to mesh the two, although in some places I deferred to him (especially regarding strict deadlines, whereas I’m usually more relaxed and stagger round start/end times to be fairer to everybody.

Then, of course, there was the matter of the twist. Ares, playing the role of the nude unicyclist (I was originally debating just outright giving this role to Reenk Roink before deciding against it), was not just a standard vigilante, not even a one-time one. In both previous games, the Chief of Police was nearly impossible to remove, being unkillable at night and able to survive the lynches handily enough. I remember in Godfather 2, as mafia, I was always fretting about what to do about Divine Wind, the Chief of Police in that game (who ended up surviving). To make up for this supposed lack of balance, I decided to give Ares’s role the additional power of being able to kill the Chief of Police. Aside from balance issues, I also thought that it was just be really cool to throw the town for a loop when they see the CoP dead at night.

We had 28 players who signed up, the exact amount that the Godfather 2 had, which I considered a good omen. Also encouraging was the fact that I had three replacement players lined up (pevergreen, Ituralde, and Myrddraal, in the order that they expressed interest), the original cast didn’t seem to have very much WoG-bait at all (and, as a matter of fact, I did not have to remove one player for inactivity in this game, which I consider a huge accomplishment), and that Ichigo and Sasaki Kojiro, two longtime Mafia vets and good friends, returned to play.

Once that was all taken care of, I looked to random.org to give me my Godfather. The trusty site spat out Beefy187’s number, a very interesting choice. Beefy had been a longtime player but was (almost?) never a mafioso, and quite often he was lynchbait. Now that the pressure was on, we would all see how Beefy would be on the other side.

Beefy sent me his grunt choices: TevashSzat and White_eyes:D, to my surprise. Again, as a trademark of my conservative tactics in Mafia, I would have picked at least one veteran, if for no other reason than to get an influential voice on my side from the start. However, Beefy proved that he was smarter than me by making two excellent choices, one of whom was at his side for 11 rounds. Once I had his grunt choices, I waited the rest of the 24 hour period and the game began.

Day 1

Filled roles:
Godfather (Beefy)
Grunts (Tevash and White_eyes)

Because of the Chief of Police mechanics, not every role was filled from the start. It would be a gamebreaker if the Detective revealed on Day 1and got immunity at night (although one could argue that the town would eventually lynch him whether by a mafioso counter-revealing and sacrificing himself, or by the town simply cracking, but at that point I didn’t have enough faith in the town to take that chance). After I picked the Detective (seireikhaan), a couple of people, khaan included, PM’d me with the idea of planning to get the Detective in the CoP spot, which is when I made the decision to make all future CoP selections random.

Additionally, considering a big part of the nude unicyclist’s power was the ability to kill the Chief of Police, he wasn’t determined until after the election as well in the interests of fun.

Andres and TInCow both immediately lobbied for the role by making two very funny posts (loved the resume! :laugh4:) promoting their “qualities” but then they immediately jokingly became two politicians going negative on each other, but were pretty much ignored by everybody else. The two real candidates were shlin28, who appealed to the players that didn’t post walls of text and weren’t generally considered veterans, and Reenk Roink, who was drafted largely by an effort of Sasaki and Ichigo because they knew his write-ups would be funny.

Also notable in this round was Sasaki’s traditional screwing with the town by claiming he had found a gamebreaking clue in my writeup and then quickly editing a series of his posts. After a little chat, he said he was glad to be back and wanted to see if anybody would bite. However, nobody really mentioned them, and Sasaki let his little effort be until a brief period in the midgame.

The CoP race was close, but eventually Reenk withdrew from the race by voting for shlin. Once I ended the round, random.org named khaan as my Detective (on the third try; the first two times I did it, the site spat back Tevash and White_eyes! :hide:) and Ares as my nude unicyclist. The Godfather, Part 3 was officially on.

Chief of Police: shlin28 :bobby:

Day 2

Tevash kills Tratorix
White_eyes kills CountArach
khaan investigates TinCow
Song: “Karn Evil 9, First Impression, Part 2” by Emerson, Lake, and Palmer
Song explanation: Mainly chosen because of the opening lyrics: “Welcome back my friends/To the show that never ends/We’re so glad you could attend/Come inside, come inside” which refers to the Godfather series restarting and the entire Mafia cycle to a larger extent. Plus, I read the Wiki article for entire Karn Evil 9 song (which is something like 30 minutes long) and it said that it “tells the story of a world from which all manner of evil […] had been banished”, which I think ties in pretty well with the Gameroom of the series, considering Godfather 2 ended in a town victory. Finally, the song’s title had a few numbers in it, which was a small hint as to Beefy’s (or Beefy187’s) identity.

Much to my dismay, the mafia were considering offing both khaan and Ares in the first round but eventually switched over to CA and Tratorix, who has been having a string of bad luck in my recent games (two first-round deaths in a row now).

Andres stole Ichigo’s thunder by voting Sasaki first, which started a bandwagon against him. Ahh, just like old times. :laugh4: More interestingly though, our resident write-up analyzer TinCow read it and pointed to Beefy as the most likely candidate, despite the fact that his two grunts actually did it. TC’s pursuit of Beefy in the early rounds attracted some followers and this game was almost over before it started.

Another action with long-term implications was Sasaki’s questioning of Lord Winter, most specifically LW’s going after Seamus for being third on the Reenk election bandwagon last round. Sasaki called him out for calling it “incredibly suspicious”, even though LW has been paranoid about election bandwagons ever since I, as Godfather, was the benefactor of one way back in Godfather 1. :laugh4: Obviously Sasaki either wasn’t aware of or forgot about this and continued dogging LW.

In this round, though, it didn’t stick, and Ichigo was the victim of the random First Day of Voting Carousel of Doom.

Executed: Ichigo

Day 3

Tevash kills seireikhaan
White_eyes kills boudica
khaan investigates nobody (dead)
Song: “Perry Mason” by Ozzy Osbourne
Song explanation: This was the closest thing to a song about a Detective I could find, commemorating khaan’s early exit from the game.

This round was the start of the mafia copying old kill write-ups. Everybody caught, thanks to Gaius Scribonius Curio, the theft of one of his kills from Mafia VIII (boudica’s death), but Tevash killed khaan using the exact kill from Godfather 1, which nobody noticed. BTW, kudos to White_eyes for guessing that khaan was the Detective, even though it was Tevash by way of a random number generator that did him in.

The Perry Mason reference was what started the initial “let’s look at the songs” chorus, but everybody was way off and the subject was dropped until a couple of rounds later. After it died down, Sasaki went after Lord Winter hard, his first real lynch effort of the game. However, it took a while to catch on as the votes still went to Sasaki for no particular reason, as well as the fact that this was the round with rampant abstentions, so much so that I doubled the round length in an effort to get some more actual votes in there.

As it turns out, this was a major blessing for the mafia, as Beefy was in trouble for a lot of this round based off TinCow’s suspicions combined with the dreaded “well, it’s the early game and we don’t have a better target” sentiment. It was here when the backlash against Beefy began, as Reenk and Askthepizzaguy both took up the mantle as his defenders (Reenk’s user title, “defender of Beefy” made me giggle), wanting to let him live for a change. Terrible timing for the town as, of course, Beefy was the über-villain for this game. Beefy now had two allies that wielded a lot of influence over the greater town.

Due to the extended session, voting shifted over to Sasaki and Lord Winter. Secondarily of note is that Curio voted for White_eyes because of gut instinct (well, there’s another point for that kind of playstyle), Askthepizzaguy made his first big case of the game, against Curio, and that the groundwork for Sigurd’s eventual lynch was laid by numerous people pointing out his inactivity. However, Sigurd survived by the skin of his teeth and Lord Winter got the lynch in a move that would have major implications all the way up to the endgame.

Executed: Lord Winter

Day 4

Tevash kills nobody
White_eyes kills TinCow
Song: “Woke Up this Morning” by Alabama Three
Song explanation: Anybody who watched The Sopranos would instantly recognize this song as the title theme if they took the time to listen to it. I had a bit of a mental block this round, so I sprung for the easy gangster connection. Plus, the name of the group that did this song had a number in it.

During the night ATPG and Sasaki had their first ever clash. Before the game started, I sent khaan the following PM as part of a wrap-up of discussing Chicago Soirée:


Although I personally am greatly looking forward to the first ATPG/Sasaki showdown in my game. If that ever materializes... I could be looking at a 2,000-poster. :laugh4:

Ahh, vindication. :laugh4:

The conversation also came up about who people would pick if they were the Godfather. Nobody came close save Sigurd who named Tevash.

Much like the original winning strategy in Godfather 1, the mafia’s decision to move to one kill early on in the game was born of a mistake: someone not getting their kill in time. In this case, it was Tevash that sent in his kill PM a couple of hours late. If this was my Mafia series, I probably would have waited a couple of hours, contacted White_eyes about the possibility of getting a second one in, and let Tevash’s kill in late. However, this being the Godfather series, I went in on time with one kill. And thus, an entire body of detective work based off a false assumption was born.

A lot of general advice for the mafia/town has been given already in the thread, but I’d like to bring up my own tidbit that I don’t think has been mentioned yet. It was around this point in the game where the mafiosi were endlessly discussing how to do the write-ups and what kind of light people would see Beefy in depending upon what they did. I’ve noticed this phenomenon a lot over the years. Basically, because of their roles and victory conditions, the mafia is quite often overly paranoid when it comes to making decisions. Quite often, they can get caught in the trap of believing that the town is solely focusing on their actions and determining only their guilt or innocence. It’s easy to believe that, as the mafia, the town is unified against you, but you have to remember that the town doesn’t know who the other townies are. They have dozens of other people to analyze as well as you. I think a lot of times mafiosi get caught up in determining how people will take one minor decision when they should be looking at overall strategy. Our trio in this game was guilty of this to an extent, but luckily it didn’t harm them. For this time, White_eyes used “The Kill” against TinCow and thus his reaction fit right in.

Early voting put both Sigurd and YLC in danger. Sigurd for his inactivity (combined with paranoia over his lurker victory in Chicago Soirée), and YLC for his role in the Sasaki/Lord Winter debate. Naturally, YLC refused to cooperate with his accusers in typical YLC fashion, which probably made him appear more innocent overall. Tevash placed a vote on him afterwards and Sasaki, probably confused, went after him some more but I attribute these to Tevash’s being a mafioso and Sasaki’s unfamiliarity with YLC’s style.

During the lynch, I put the following in the writeup:


Nevertheless, the monolith-like presence of the hut did not distract them from voting, which made the guy with the boombox, observing it all, very glad.

…which was a clue that I was the boombox guy. After all, hosts are always happy when there’s activity. :yes:

Sigurd was lynched. 657 posts in, the game was about to take off.

Executed: Sigurd

Day 5

Tevash kills Jolt
White_eyes kills nobody
Song: “Escalator of Life” by Robert Hazard
Song explanation: This one said a few things. First of all, it was another indicator that I was the boombox guy. Robert Hazard, the artist, was a popular Philadelphia musician in the 1980s but wasn’t widely known outside of the area at all. I’ve mentioned several times on this forum that I grew up right outside of Philadelphia, so put two and two together and you have GH providing the songs. Secondly, I specifically directed you to the “climax” of the song, which is Hazard yelling “Nothing ever changes!” referring to the now thrice-used (out of three games in this series) mafia practice of dropping their kills down to one per night early on to hide their numbers. BTW, if you didn’t get any of these clues, don’t worry about it. I wasn’t expecting anyone to make anything out of the songs like I was with the word puzzle in Mafia VIII. It was more to add another dimension to the game.

Before we get to the insane events of the round, it’s worth noting that the mafia decided to stick with one kill, with Tevash going for Jolt while White_eyes stayed idle (the only round in which he didn’t kill, aside from the final one). A lot has been made about whether the decision to switch to one kill so early was the right one or not. Personally, I believe that it was. The town was operating under the assumption that Lord Winter was mafia for such a long time that I think it offset the extra firepower that the bad guys would’ve received. Plus, as mentioned before, so much of the detective work and posts in that thread were made off a false assumption that even people that went back and analyzed would be deterred (well, most people anyway). It was almost like another “Golden Rule”-type game.

Anyway, this round had so much packed into it that it all comes back to me in snapshots:

Snapshot: ATPG and Skynet going after Reenk and Tevash. Instantly the round becomes a debate between the ATPG supporters and detractors. It looks like the detractors have the early advantage due to the weight of TinCow’s, Reenk’s, Andres’s, and Sasaki’s opinions against it.

Snapshot: Tevash giving a long defense of himself. It got pressure off him temporarily, but, I think, the defense itself was Tevash’s scummiest characteristic as I don’t recall Tevash doing that sort of thing in previous games. I know if somebody had used that argument against me I would have howled in frustration, but it’s true.

Snapshot: khaan asking for permission to send Reenk and Seamus vague PMs in order to try to flush them out, and me agreeing because of him being off-target in the first place, and because of the sheer ambiguity of the PMs. khaan starting to provide vague hints as to his identity in the thread, getting everybody frustrated with his posting behavior.

Snapshot: TinCow beginning serious analysis of the songs, which made me jump for joy inside. Analysis devolving into Sasaki making a joke post: “ ‘Fruitless? Focus on the meat? Lynch Beefy!!!!’ :laugh4:” Me laughing at the irony.

Snapshot: Beefy, in an effort to distance himself from his grunts, voting Tevash. As the votes on Tevash increase, White_eyes is ready to mutiny behind the scenes.

Snapshot: The game spiraling out of control as ATPG gets more desperate to get the town to follow him. Open hostility starting to make itself known.

Snapshot: Tevash, thinking (potentially incorrectly – I can’t confirm as I have no desire to read this round thoroughly) that he was the lynch, revealing as “Detective” without any PMs, real or not, to back up his claim.

Snapshot: Tevash’s fake reveal and ATPG’s suicidal vote change providing Tevash just enough cover to slip by for a round as ATPG goes down in flames.

Executed: Askthepizzaguy

Day 6

Tevash kills nobody
White_eyes kills Ignoramus
777Ares777 kills Sasaki Kojiro
Song: “One Love” by Bob Marley and the Wailers
Song explanation: Primarily a “whoa now, let’s all take a step back and cool down” after the events of the previous round. However, as usual, there were numbers present. There seemed to be two camps in the game regarding the meaning of the songs: those who thought it was just general commentary, and those who believed there were clues hidden throughout. You were both right.

Ares’s kill came at the right time, game-wise. I think the humor present in the writeup combined with the song served to douse everybody’s tensions at that point. Although I was a bit disappointed that Ares didn’t nail a mafioso and that he opted not to go for shlin, I must admit I relished writing Sasaki’s death. :laugh4: I also enjoyed watching everyone’s reaction in the thread immediately after it happened. Over in their Quicktopic, the mafia were panicking as well, which, combined with their suspicions of Reenk being a Mastermind (similar to the twist in Godfather 1), made for high entertainment. Maybe there is something to creating total chaos, after all.

Tevash went MIA at the night phase, and his absence definitely hurt the mafia. Having played a stellar game so far, he was not present to defend his Detective-ness, which probably would have set the town back a couple of rounds, even had they lynched him, in agonizing over whether they had made the right choice or not.

I think, during the night phase, the mafia committed their first serious error by misreading the town’s feelings. They were banking on the one kill per night implicating ATPG as a grunt, but at that point the town was pretty much used to it and associating it with the assumption that Lord Winter was a mafioso. Tevash’s absence made defending him impractical, but Beefy and White_eyes could possibly have steered the lynch somewhere else with a good alternate explanation.

With most people waiting for Tevash to get on before making a decision, votes for the early part of the round went a few separate ways. Chaotix27, doing what he had been doing all game, gunned for Reenk, while some people, like Andres, followed khaan’s suggestions and voted for Seamus. Curio continued voting for Quintus.JC for a reason that I’m still not sure of. taka, who hadn’t posted much at this point, cast his mind back to YLC’s earlier suspicious behavior and voted for pevergreen, who replaced YLC after he suicided.

White_eyes, in an effort to save his comrade, went after the most popular target (Seamus), but as the day dragged on and Tevash never showed up, it became clear that the mafia were going to be one member down. Eventually Beefy voted for his grunt, and that was the closest thing to pulling the plug as we’ll get in a mafia game.

Executed: TevashSzat

Day 7

White_eyes kills Psychonaut
Song: “Still Alive” by Jonathan Coulton
Song explanation: Better known as the credits music for Portal. I meant this one to be as ambiguous as possible to screw with your heads. However, the opening lyrics were pretty clear as to the town’s lynching of Tevash: “This was a triumph/I’m making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS.”

Reenk flexed his muscle here by getting Seamus under for no other reason than the fact that he wanted him lynched. He even said exactly why he wanted Seamus gone in the thread:


I have thought Seamus guilty ever since early in the game when he tried to pass off the write ups as my doing. I don't know what the seireikhaan clues or whatever were and haven't been paying attention.

[new post]

Yes, my suspicions of you are all based on intuition whereas I know many of you prefer an analytical approach, but as you know, Reenk Roink puts little value in rationality and analysis. :bow:

Afterwards, both publically and to me privately, Seamus talked in amazement about how Reenk was able to do what he does and get away with it.

Additionally under fire this round was Chief of Police shlin28, who came under suspicion primarily because… he wasn’t under suspicion. Such is the way of Mafia. I admit that my constant ambiguous references to him in the write-ups weren’t helping his cause (such as the infamous “only I’m allowed to [kill you]”) but I always made sure to carefully word it so that close examination would show that he was innocent. For example, the above sentence: “only he’s allowed” to kill people. Well, of course, the mafia aren’t allowed to kill people; that’s the reason why there’s a daily lynching. If mafia were allowed to kill people then it wouldn’t be much of a game. :tongue: In addition, shlin was always doing something else at the time of the killings.

The efforts against the lurkers also heated up this round as glyphz and taka got in some trouble. In addition, Seamus pointed out (again) his suspicions of Beefy due to an unusually high post count. For all the hits that this kind of reasoning took over the course of the game (and all the points that Sasaki and especially Reenk scored with their playstyles), Seamus was dead on in this one. However, the two main targets were Seamus and shlin, who wasn’t helped by TinCow’s radar focused on him.

However, in the end, shlin held onto his position by the skin of his teeth and it was Seamus that ended up going down on his birthday. BTW, the Vincenzo reference that happened in the lynch was a result of a conversation between myself and shlin:




For the next simple lynch you shall need:

1. A Declaration of War against Sicily/wherever these mafia people come from.
2. A large canon.
3. A lynchee.

Step-by-step

1. Declare war on Sicily/wherever those mafia people come from.
2. Make a speech to the townspeople concerning how glorious the war will be, and mention that we must launch the first strike first.
3. Strap the suspect into the said canon.
4. Light the firing cord on the canon + aim it at whever we are firing at.
5. ???
6. PROFIT! (If the lynchee is mafia - we just insulted all mafia people, if the lynchee is not mafia - we scared the hell out of those mafioso in Sicily/wherever anyway)

Is this doable? :sweatdrop:

I could modify it to make the guy being launched straight into Vincenzo's (see the very first post) office, would that be acceptable?

I DEMAND A TOTAL WAR AGAINST MAFIA!!! :clown:

That will be fine actually :bow:

Executed: Seamus Fermanagh

Day 8

White_eyes kills LittleGrizzly
Song: “All My Life” by the Foo Fighters
Song explanation: Dual purpose. First, plenty of number references, even in the “repeat 3x” notations in the lyrics. Secondly, I was attempting to inform the town that they seemed to be adhering to a “let’s lynch the next one in line!” philosophy, which I have spoke out against plenty of times in the past.

For all the talk about the WIFOM present in the kill write-ups, especially WE’s Youtube videos, there was a major clue in them that nobody noticed: the videos themselves. Reading over his out-of-thread posts, I noticed that White_eyes quite often linked to Youtube videos when making a point. If people had made that connection, WE would have been toast and Beefy would have had to survive for four rounds on his own. People studying the trees and missing the forest again.

It was around here where things started to slow down a bit. The tumult of Day 5 had long passed and the town was pretty much just swinging blindly at this point, continuing to collect data and whittle down their targets for when the endgame came around. Because of town exhaustion, shlin was in trouble for the entire day, and ATPG’s building a case against him during the night didn’t help him any.

However, it wasn’t a sure thing. Reenk, continuing his vendetta against those who disagreed with him, disregarded his longtime target Chaotix for a new threat, Andres, in a move that would have endgame implications. In addition, Curio also probably clinched himself being a lynch target by remaining neutral in spite of a very factional round (for or against shlin?).

shlin went down in an execution sequence that was a combination of all of his others that he used, minus ATPG’s requested one. Overall, shlin did a very good job in his duties as Chief of Police, maintaining a presence throughout and giving me very good material to work with in the parts of the write-ups that I controlled. I personally thought that it was a very cool one and that shlin’s creativity wouldn’t be topped… until random.org gave me his replacement.

Executed: shlin28
New Chief of Police: Reenk Roink :bobby:

Day 9

White_eyes kills Chaotix27
Song: “Atom Heart Mother (suite)” by Pink Floyd
Song explanation: If properly analyzed, this one would have given the town the game. The song had no lyrics, which was supposed to confuse you and get you looking in other areas. One of these places would eventually be the cover of the album “Atom Heart Mother”, which upon inspection was a clear reference to Beefy. This was the closest clue I dared give. I think, if TinCow had not mistakenly provided the lyrics for “Astronomy Domine”, discussion might have eventually turned that way and Beefy would have been in trouble.


https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n231/GeneralHankerchief/AtomHeartMotherCover.jpg
The Atom Heart Mother album cover. Got lead?

Continuing with the pre-endgame lull that a lot of my games seem to experience, the activity was a bit down this round. Once again, the town, lacking anything better to do, went with the “next in line” strategy which I’ve been pushing against for a while now. The abstain count was also starting to creep up again.

Beefy and White_eyes, despite a couple of hiccups, were playing an amazing game, and I was fairly confident that they’d be able to pull a victory off despite the odds. If anything, I was sure that White_eyes was going to survive, and if the mafia did manage to lose Beefy would go down before WE. Despite a healthy post count, White_eyes was so much his normal self that nobody really paid much attention to him.

With the pressure on the lurkers, glyphz and Curio, and to a lesser extent taka, tried to contribute in order to save themselves. taka was slowly getting more comfortable as the number of players dwindled to small game-level, the type of game that he prefers the most. ATPG chipped in with Ares, the now-powerless nude unicyclist, as his newest suspect but by that point he had exhausted his favor with the town and was pretty much ignored.

In the end, glyphz’s head popped out of the Whack-a-Lurker machine that the town was in this round and was summarily executed, by Reenk Roink, in true Wanax fashion.

Executed: glyphz

Day 10

White_eyes kills pevergreen
Song: “We Have All the Time in the World” by Louis Armstrong
Song explanation: I chose this one for irony value. Despite the title and lyrics, this song is actually closely associated with fast-approaching death. First of all, it was the last song Satchmo recorded before passing away. Secondly, as 007 fans are aware, this was the theme for Bond and his eventual wife, Tracy. Immediately after their wedding, Tracy is shot and killed. This was a warning for the town to get into gear before the mafia overwhelmed them.

The endgame officially began this round as the number alive dropped into the single digits. The sadist in me quite enjoyed writing the part about Reenk being able to vote after so many people expressed relief in the fact that he was previously not allowed to.

The pressure on Ares continued, although with the start of the endgame it finally – finally! – branched off into a few directions. In addition, activity on the song analysis front started up again. ATPG in this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2148953&postcount=1463) made a very legitimate attempt at guessing who the Godfather was based on the clues in the songs, particularly the number references that were present in the earlier ones. However, he came to the conclusion that they pointed to Ares… so close, yet so far. That post almost made me cringe.

Also around this time, to add to the strange coincidences, Beefy unveiled his new sig, the one with the evil-looking cow and the description: “Mafia – it’s who you least expect to be guilty.” I found this doubly ironic for both the caption but also the cow, especially considering the clue I had just inserted in the round before.

With so few people left, pretty much everyone fell under suspicion, including those who had previously gotten a free ride such as Andres and Curio. As a matter of fact, the only people that really skated by were Beefy and White_eyes. Beefy because by that point people seemed ready to let him have the victory if he was Godfather, but White_eyes because he was just doing that good of a job. It was at this point where the game seemed to turn into the playstyle battle royale that I mentioned in my essay, especially with Reenk’s defense of his intuition style against Andres’s assault.

After the dust cleared, there was a three-way tie between Andres, Curio, and the mafia’s preferred target: taka. Andres, in a move that would probably secure the town’s belief of his innocence, was online at the time I initiated the sudden death but did nothing, instead leaving it up to his fellow townies to work things out. White_eyes, in a good position no matter who was lynched, switched his vote from taka to Curio to end things. Had he been a little forward-thinking, he might have seen Andres’s refusal to move as a long-term threat and worked to remove it, but that of course is unfair on him as I am most definitely using hindsight. Besides, if he did so more suspicion might have come upon him, so it might not have made a difference. But in the endgame, every move has implications. That’s what makes it so hard for the mafia.

Anyway, the point is that Curio got lynched and the mafia were one round away from victory. It would be now or never for the so-called “curse of GH”.

Executed: Gaius Scribonius Curio

Day 11

White_eyes kills 777Ares777
Song: “Tonight, Tonight” by the Smashing Pumpkins
Song explanation: Properly conveyed the sense of desperation I was looking for. “Believe in the resolute urgency of now” and all that. I didn’t even realize that there was an implication of the game being over “tonight” if the town got the lynch wrong until it was brought up in the thread.

First of all, just to confirm, the juggle ball reference in the kill writeup was placed in there by me, indicating that Ares was the dearly departed nude unicyclist.

The desperation began early on as Seamus posted the percentages that were clearly in the mafia’s favor. However, so did the work that would turn the tide in the town’s favor. Following Beefy’s signature’s advice, Quintus.JC in a very intelligent move decided that he’d be going for Beefy or White_eyes because everyone else looked like lynchbait. Reenk too called White_eyes out for not killing Andres or his allies, although it would be a while before he actually voted WE. I don’t know. :dizzy2: (Note to self: keep repeating “Reenk is Reenk” when trying to make sense of the previous bit.) Andres too joined in by moving away from his longtime nemesis Reenk by prodding White_eyes to talk a bit more.

White_eyes, faced with a sudden burst of pressure after pretty much cruising for ten rounds, stuck to his guns and continued to vote for taka, playing the paranoia card.

However, it was Sasaki’s long post, examining the connections between Beefy, White_eyes, and Tevash that ultimately ruined the round for the mafia. His post #1635 in the thread has already been discussed at length and I don’t need to rehash it here as this commentary is already way too long. In short, we’ll say it was the stuff of greatness and leave it at that.

It was around this round that it came to light that Beefy had been contacting people in private over the course of the game hoping to work with them, most notably taka. This was an excellent move that had been used by people in the past to great effect, and probably was what saved Beefy from The Wanax this round because enough people refused to vote for him out of principle.

Instead, the victim was White_eyes, lynched largely because of Sasaki’s case and Reenk’s frenetic vote changes, eventually landing on the remaining grunt because of – what else? – intuition.

Executed: White_eyes:D

Day 12

Beefy kills Quintus.JC
Song: “The Final Countdown” by Europe (London Symphony Orchestra rendition)
Song explanation: Duh.

Beefy already posted his original kill in the thread, which was quite accurate. It was so bare that I had to break my own rule and do work on it to make it presentable in the thread. This isn’t a knock against Beefy, of course, as he was expecting an absent White_eyes to write it for him.

Considering the kill choice, Beefy went the direct route and removed his opposition outright, hoping that his bonds with taka and Reenk would hold for 48 more hours. I can’t really fault him for this as this was pretty much his only choice. Andres had consistently been facing suspicion for the past several days, and the main endgame lesson learned from Mafia VIII, as I’m sure Curio can attest to, is to surround yourself with suspects and not semi-lurkers and one major alternative suspect (in this case, Reenk).

This was the strangest endgame I ever witnessed. The usual last-minute detective work was done in the previous do-or-die round. In its placed was a higher discussion of playstyle and personal priorities. Everybody but taka knew Beefy’s identity at this point, but the question was whether they would all decide to play by the rules and lynch the Godfather, or complete their own objectives and either stay true to their philosophies or give the game to Beefy as a gesture of congratulations.

A dead vote was looming in the case of the tie, something which I believe had been done only twice before: Mafia I and Godfather 2. In this case, the sentiment among the dead was definitely that Beefy was the Godfather, which meant that the 24-hour extension was only a formality and that a tie vote meant a loss for the mafia.

Beefy, naturally, acted in self-preservation, trying to secure a win after an outstanding effort. Since Andres, his preferred lynch target at the start of the round, looked like he was going to make it through, he voted for the next likeliest person: Reenk.

taka, who seemed to be the odd man out of the equation, ignored peer pressure and stuck to his guns. Considering Reenk’s behavior to be scummy and unacceptable, he placed his vote on Reenk early and refused to budge.

Andres, the one remaining logistician, believed in the Beefy/White_eyes team for a while now and voted accordingly. After some deliberation, he switched his vote to no lynch, ready to give Beefy the game. However, he changed his mind and eventually ended up voting Beefy.

Reenk had determined that Beefy was the Godfather only recently, but upheld his principles and voted for taka out of retaliation. He changed his mind several times, debating on whether to give Beefy the game or not. Eventually, though, he ruled in favor of the rest of the town, deciding not to be a spoiler and voted Beefy.

24 hours later, the dead had decided, and despite a final effort by White_eyes, Beefy was the lynch for Day 12.

Executed: Beefy187

Game end

Wow. That’s all I have to say. At the start of this, I didn’t think Godfather 2 could be topped, as that game is first and foremost in my mind among the great ones. I think we managed to pull off the impossible, though.

Praise goes all around on this one. First, naturally, to the mafiosi: TevashSzat, White_eyes, and Beefy187 for an incredible effort. Twelve rounds of pure art, gentlemen. :bow: To realize the scope of what they had to do to win this one, Capo II had 15 rounds, but with nearly three times the players. The fact that you weren’t able to take it at the end in no way diminishes the amazing performance that we witnessed here.

Second, to the power roles: seireikhaan for maintaining a presence after death, 777Ares777 for staying alive long enough to give the game another turn, and our two Chiefs of Police shlin28 and Reenk Roink for their wonderful lynch methods. :bow:

Third, to the moderators, Andres and Sigurd, for having to deal with all the extra workload that my game created. As this was the first time I hosted after receiving my promotion as AM, I have a new respect for what you do. :bow:

Fourth, to the townies for their tireless effort and dedication to the game, making it the great experience that it was. Any game in which the town’s efforts were so notable that they prompt the host to write a 3,000 word essay on town styles is definitely a successful one. Hopefully this is the start of a greater trend. :bow:

Fifth, just one more time to all of the players and those who expressed interest in doing so. You guys have no idea how much making this a successful game meant to me, and at the risk of sounding sentimental, you succeeded beyond my wildest dreams. This is just a personal thank you to all of you for doing so. :bow:

And that officially wraps up The Godfather, Part 3, folks. I’m not sure if I’m going to continue it or not, because, frankly, I don’t know how this one can be topped. If I do, it will be very far down the road. But for now, I will always look at this game with fond memories. I look forward to sharing similar experiences with you well into the future.

~ General Hankerchief

BTW, can I get the summary thread temporarily unlocked? I'd like to put the commentary and essay in there for ease of reference. Thanks in advance. :yes:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I noticed the album art for the floyd song and beefy's new avatar but never put them together. I thought the songs were just general clues. Reading over it it looks like we figured out most of them, although putting in "perry mason" after the detective died and then the theme from the sopranos after LW was lynched threw us for a loop, lol. But then how could you know LW would be assumed to be mafia?

I agree that the town fell into a "lynch the next on the list" mentality which was probably harmful, I didn't even find anything useful from that period in my reread. The lynches of shlin and seamus were not good choices. We needed glyphz and curio eliminated before endgame though so it wasn't a complete wash.

[Beefy187]

Hmm. Perhaps I should change my name to something more human:laugh4:

I didn't get any of the song clues but that album with the cow could've killed me straight off:smash:

Again, thank you for the amazing game GH :2thumbsup:

[White_eyes:D]

For all the talk about the WIFOM present in the kill write-ups, especially WE’s Youtube videos, there was a major clue in them that nobody noticed: the videos themselves. Reading over his out-of-thread posts, I noticed that White_eyes quite often linked to Youtube videos when making a point. If people had made that connection, WE would have been toast and Beefy would have had to survive for four rounds on his own. People studying the trees and missing the forest again.

This was the only point many of the veteran Mafia players missed "studying the trees and missing the forest".....Sasaki:2thumbsup: did his homework and caught me and Beefy, by linking us with Tevash....but ATPG, TinCow and many others could have easily put two and two together, with the videos and write-up style:book:. Of course it was "Too much WIFOM to even think there were clues":rolleyes: but I was counting on that....if town followed that WIFOM, I would have been(or beefy) lynched long ago......shlin made a good analysis of my videos I posted "something about the players, who are killed" good job there:2thumbsup:.....if you had looked a little more you would have noticed a pattern......:smash: