Swords and Sorcery Mafia Without the Swords [Concluded]

[Renata]

Yep, we can night post.

[Zack]

But Al was so wolfy, right?

[Renata]

w/w wagons glgl

[Zack]

He does look an awful lot like your scumbuddy right now, so that's certainly a consideration for me at least.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/2dfc3369827df9b981e111d7fd8fc732/tumblr_mvemcyarmn1rslphyo1_400.gif

[Renata]

So wolfspew and all and don't ever ever trust this at LYLO but I think Winston's pretty clear here, right? Would be pretty gutsy of Dp to hard defend a teammate like that.

[Montmorency]

Tolda ya. But it's null, since DP was already one of the tie wagons when I voted, I think.

I guess I'll analyze all the other stuff later too. For now, let it slip that I'm thinking of taking somebody of out the running for the night. Some person. Not a poor son. A person. They're going to be farting in the wind all night. uhg

[Zack]

Tolda ya. But it's null, since DP was already one of the tie wagons when I voted, I think.

I guess I'll analyze all the other stuff later too. For now, let it slip that I'm thinking of taking somebody of out the running for the night. Some person. Not a poor son. A person. They're going to be farting in the wind all night. uhg
There are assuredly ways for people to neutralize this, so talking about it publicly seems like a bad idea.

[Montmorency]

Why? I didn't say what I'm gonna do.

[Montmorency]

Presumably everyone's doing something, generally targeting another player, so just the fact of my announcing it should not change the calculations of scum or diligent townies.

Maybe I should activate the role that kills everyone who targets me.

[Zack]

So wolfspew and all and don't ever ever trust this at LYLO but I think Winston's pretty clear here, right? Would be pretty gutsy of Dp to hard defend a teammate like that.
how is winston the first person you jump to clear from this?

You put weight into DP's vote on Monty a few minutes ago. Where do you stand on that now? Or on Al? Or on me?

[Arakhor]

Maybe I should activate the role that kills everyone who targets me.

Do you take active pleasure in wolfing up the place or is this some sort of bizarre 'tactic'?

[Zack]

Do you take active pleasure in wolfing up the place or is this some sort of bizarre 'tactic'?

I believe it's a joke.

[Renata]

how is winston the first person you jump to clear from this?

You put weight into DP's vote on Monty a few minutes ago. Where do you stand on that now? Or on Al? Or on me?

Winston is first because that's the first I noticed Dp, when he took offense to my vote on Winston to the extent of voting me for being mean to him.

I don't know what you're referring to with your next comment. I think Monty is probably town as well based on Dp diving on the attempted CFD. Al could still be scum -- being counterwagon to mafia doesn't make you innocent -- but the pressure's off. You are probably good. I'll need a review of the wagons to be comfortable saying so because I'm hella paranoid. Some of your play this game reminds me uncomfortably of the Democracy game.

[Montmorency]

Just to get this out of the way for you, DP:

I've played with you 4 times, twice as scum, twice as town, and every single time you struck me immediately - from D1 - as sure town. This game, you were just null to me. Then once I wasn't feeling the Renata lynch and landed on Arakhor, I realized that my reading you null actually counted as a significant discrepancy. So I killed you.


Renata could still conceivably be scum, with DP sorely failing in a distancing/bussing attempt. But she looks good now.

Winston and Lewwyn are ones to watch, all very neat but don't rule them out for a second. Then again, Lewwyn (and Choxorn) were early DP wagoners and pointed out his missteps.

BSmith was 3rd on the DP wagon? Sounds fishy.

GH is craftier than recent games. I've read him as scum wrongly in most of 2016 (well, I was scum in one), but he's definitely upping the ante in this one. Maybe?

Don't have any more immediate impressions.


Do you take active pleasure in wolfing up the place or is this some sort of bizarre 'tactic'?

Can't confirm or deny.

[Montmorency]

You are probably good. I'll need a review of the wagons to be comfortable saying so because I'm hella paranoid. Some of your play this game reminds me uncomfortably of the Democracy game.


I don't see what about this warrants all the votes. I assumed he was just referring to reading the rules and shit. Who cares.

Someone enterprising should cross-check this sentiment against the last game and its low-poster narratives.

[Renata]

That's right, I wasn't accurate above. My first impression of Dp wasn't from the Winston/Zack interaction, it was "nullsville".

[Al Sipsclar]

The puppy turned out to be a wolf cub.


I think Arakhor wants to get back at me after our last game together, where I was scum, and the first D1 opening post, which was Arakhor's, was "Al has fooled me before but not anymore", he suspected me whole game, but eventually lost.


Implying Arakhor's scum?
No, rather explaining to myself that a town Arakhor might hold a grudge against me.


I'd forgotten about that, Al. Which game was that?
Crazy Santa on CFC.


That's such a weird thing to focus on right now. How are you reading Arakhor This game for it?
I didn't read last 200+ posts, so I was focusing on what I had. I was looking for reasons why people voting me could be town.


Besides which, literally any reason I cite for my first vote on D1 can be safely disregarded.
Says the guy who voted me on the basis of my single D1 post.

Well, back to reading for me. And I'm a slow reader.

[Snerk]

I still think we should have lynched Renata.

[Renata]

Someone enterprising should cross-check this sentiment against the last game and its low-poster narratives.

Deja vu. It's not going to be me, not today. I'm just hanging out until after I've slept.

[Renata]

I still think we should have lynched Renata.

I'm glad we didn't.

[Montmorency]

Lou Gehrig - I'm just going to officially call Al Sipsclar that from now on - Lou Gehrig, about manifold posts, I tried taking verbose notes this time. I don't like it, will probably go back to shortform notes, but here you go:

Notes (some of the divisions are wrong)
P2: GH FOS Visor for voting atheotes, quiet vote on inactive/lurker
*I say Visor is innocent, Renata disagrees, I demur
*Zack calls Visor's vote a wolfclaim
*I scumteam Visor, Renata, DP101
*Visor says atheotes is villager, though doesn't change vote; thinks Chox town too, but light

P3: *atheotes says Visor town, likes Snerk's humor
*Renata reads: Snerk too much blabber and non-game stuff, GH relaxed (renata bias toward not suspecting GH), Monty shows signs of thought, looking for awkward behavior and pairing, but null because wrong, DP null, Chox might actually be townie this time because not obvious bad like last
*Arakhor doesn't quite agree w/ atheots that Visor town, because Visor doing silly things but not making enough throwaway leans
*Sooh thinks Renata trying too hard, GH disagrees, Snerk disagrees with disagreement, citing frantic beginning then change into all-business
*Zack says "trying" is not scummy, townies more actual try than scum pretense-try and it shows
*Snerk says in general scum care more than town, Renata also disagrees
*Visor thinks Chox meta is less stilted, less agenda, less conformist than in scum games
*visor softclaims seer

P4:
*Zack mentions lynchproof spell and GH crying when it is used; Renata fingers Zack softclaiming
*Zack wifoms toward Renata, says he would kill her as wolf; Renata acknowledges and asserts tinfoil in proportion to towniness
*Zack softclaim lynchproof/bulletproof
*GH finds Snerk/Arakhor talky on meta and strategy, but less so with Zack for Org meta
*

P5:
*Zack finds it concerning that GH canvassed for opinions on Arakhor/Snerk rather than giving his own, but GH counters with lack of meta on those players and that w/o context it's tiniest scum lean on the two; GH thinks Zack is more likely to force/manufacture issues as scum
*Zack jokes Visor "kappa" scum for not talking while thanking posts; GH finds the Visor-atheotes interactions weird, plus that people are early town-reading Visor more than expected; Zack agree
*Arakhor on the above feels Visor does weird things and atheotes usually lurks, and the mutual town read is weird; Zack finds it weirder on atheotes' end than on Visor's
*Renata greets Winston mentioning Al Sips initial promise to return with reads, Winston calls it Al's usual MO and asks why Renata brought it up; Renata replies bc she voting AlS, but Winston finds that weak (on the vote, or on the mention?)
*DP asks Winston if he is scum, Winston replies still no
*

P6:
*Zack notes Winston accusing Renata of weakness re: AlS, suggests expectation for Al to flip scum; Renata comments that Winston should be lynched next in that case; Winston responds by voting AlS, prompting Zack to vote Winston;
*Zack leans: Winton Hughes, atheotes wolf team. Maybe Visor. Al spewed town or mafia, depending on your interpretation. GH, Renata town.
*Zack justifies Winston vote by saying it's not good look to defend someone and then flip to voting them to defend oneself; Winston says he's not defending, just doesn't care even if the vote is weak (though still valid)
*Renata votes Winston and asks him to tone his way out; Winston says if he were scum it wouldn't be this easy, is playing for info; Zack doesn't buy it, so Winston suggests deep thought;
*Winston asks Csargo for reads, and Zack retaliates by asking Winston for his reads/leans; Winston hasn't felt anything yet, but will look through the thread;
*DP thinks Winston-Zack are town in this exchange; Renata claims unsure on both, but this read is the first thing so far that Renata likes from DP; if Zack is wolf, then Winston is right and found out desire to take advantage of easy inconsistency
*Csargo has Zack, Renata, Monty as town, GH as null, Visor as quieter than usual
*Winston gut-town Monty, feels tension in Renata, GH town vibes meaning effortful if scum, Snerk effort level could be scummy for him but maybe not bc lampshading; GH wants explanations for reads on him and Renata, Winston says difficult for lack of conscious reactions but will work on it
*
*Tally so far:
Lewwyn -2 (Dp101, Sooh)
Montmorency - 2 (GHC, (Atheotes))
Renata - 2 (Montmorency, Snerk)
Winston Hughes - 2 (Kcaz, Renata)
Al Spisclar - 1 (Winston Hughes)
Arakhor - 1 (Csargo)
Atheotes - 1 (Visor)
BSmith - 1 (Al Sipsclar)
Csargo - 1 (Arakhor)
Kcaz - 1 (Choxorn)
Sooh - 1 (Lewwyn)

P7:
*GH wants reads from Arakhor, switches onto atheotes; Renata demands reasons (on which item?);
*GH reads Town: Zack (tone); Renata; Csargo (soul); Snerk (tone); Renata(extra town) and Scum: Visor & atheotes (similar to Zack reasoning for vote, though no mention of Zack); Winston (for twiggy presence and for analytical posts & justification that are often scummy); Arakhor (hedginess); Zack likes these lists, Csargo unsure of feelings over soul-read
*Snerk disagrees his effort levels are scummy, does not agree that Winston and Zack are solid town by their interactions - though he likes those interactions - and agrees with GH on Arakhor's hedginess but then hedges that Arakhor is always hedgy
*Renata asks Snerk about his vote on her, Snerk says could change, Renata suggests Winston
*Winston recalls Snerk meta that he acted more townie as scum due to effort, corroborated/lampshaded by Snerks recent comments in this game; Winston feels he understands why Zack doesn't like his entry, but doesnt understand where Renata is coming from
*Renata reiterated Winston's analytical justification sounded weak and unlike him; Zack agrees, and claims "not caring" is unlike town Winston in early game, even if shitposting can be
*Winston explaining reads: on GH, he sees townie mind at work in process, though it can be faked, and prefer not to spend energy on further explaining and to focus on non-town reads; on Renata, she started relaxed, but avoiding provocation while being jokey, defusing toward Monty with OMGUS rather than engaging, reasonable-but-easy vote on Snerk, brushing off his OMGUS, same safety in early reads and Al Sip vote - but this is all gut reaction and least-charitable interpretation, justified just for GH's sake and not a real push or considered case
*DP votes Renata for pushing Winston, sounds like scum latching onto something in a townie, while town Renata should have moved on by now; Zack finds this conviction weird, but DP likes Winston's tone on meta, though from others he might be suspicious
*Sooh doesn't want Snerk to be modkilled, agrees with scumlean on Renata but wants to give her a chance/space
*

P8:
*Renata finds DP's vote honest, asks him if he sees difference between her and Zack, feels opposite on Winston tone after Zack confrontation; DP didn't like the way she wagoned onto Zack's questioning; Renata decided to drop it for now
*Sooh asks about GH post on Org meta, greeting Snerk/Arakhor, and asking about them, is it weird for GH? Csargo says no
*Sooh asks why Zack put GH town after sussing him for asking for evaluation on Snerk/Arakhor talkiness; Zack says it was a while ago, but Sooh insists;
*Sooh asks
*Winston says he doesn't put self into danger D1 as scum for silly stuff, he wasn't trying to be lynchbait just wasn't worried about it, he wasn't fumbling or acting out of nervousness, fear or panic, accuses Renata of latching on to justify scumread; Renata suggests he can make mistakes, but it's not the vote on Al itself as Zack felt, and that if Winston thinks renata is trying to justify a scumread then that sounds off too and in that case he should vote her over Al Sips
*Winston tells Zack that he was testing Renata by asking about Al and Zack's reaction came as an unexpected bonus, and on mistakes that such a mistake as Renata identifies would be too obvious, esp. for keeping the focus on it; Renata then asks why he voted for Al in that case, and Winston claims for reaction fishing; on the subject of wording re: "justify a scumread", Winston doesn't get it but Renata feels this implies she is making it up and that Winston used the wording to insinuate that impression into the thread; Winston disagrees with that construal of "justification"; on reaction fishing, Zack equates it to simple test and derides it, but Winston says it's more one piece toward constructing reads
*Renata doesn't find Zack towny; Sooh feels like Zack is ignoring her (Sooh); Renata announces ambivalence on Winston, votes Al Sips for ptomising to catch up and not showing up when the thread was but young (>rand scum); Arakhor quotes the Al Sips posts in question
*Arakhor comments on number of posts, disclaims accusations of hedging as identifying mere ignorance; feels that scum Winston more likely to be active but quiet rather than windy; doesn't want to policy lynch AlS, as his behavior might be too scummy to be true; on Visor/Atheotes, Visor often chats up the thread and changes opinions, is often onto something by happenstance
*Renata reads list:
1. Dp101 -- slight town
2. Bsmith -- no show
3. GeneralHankerchief -- towny enough
4. Montmorency -- wtf monty where'd you go
5. Choxorn -- probably town
6. Atheotes -- maybe awkward start w/visor based on others' comments
7. Arakhor -- no read personally yet, apparently GH finds him scummy
8. Snerk -- mildly scummy
9. Al Sipclar -- one-post scummy
10. Visor -- see atheotes with a side a monty, looked okish while here but don't see how I can ever clear him on this little
11. Csargo -- no read
12. Winston Hughes -- heck if I know
13. Kcaz -- having tinfoil of me/Jabbz/Zack from last game if Winston is town. maybe a little limited in his interests so far? no sure
14. Sooh -- townie enough
15. Renata
16. Lewwyn -- no read
*

P9:
*Lewynn questions DP on Renata, feels reacting on Winston in the moment should not be scummy, maybe if it were a while later; finds null on Winston, doesn't like DP calling him obvious town; DP questions all this, including why Lewynn singled this out from the thread after missing most of the action; Lewwyn finds timing to matter (esp. in early game) bc scum put more thought into actions and so less likely to make quick moves or changes based on gut; finds null/torn on Renata, but alarmed by aggressiveness from DP (not answering questions/comments and raising accusatory questions)
*Lewynn doesn't like the timing of Renata's switch back onto Al Sips, though he likes the reasoning (noting that Visor likes this vote too re: his recent return and switch onto AlS);
*Zack doesn't see the reasoning against Al Sip
*Lewynn wants more reaction from DP to scrutinize against meta; DP understands the reasons
*Choxorn doesn't like DP's vote/case against Renata, feels it's coming from scum defending partner against accuser; DP complains that by this reasoning Choxorn should be voting the scum whom he thinks DP is defending, i.e. Winston; Chox respond by referencing Lewynn's idea below, and also saying he just feels DP scummier ATM, and if it's scum Winston/DP then voting either is fine, but Winston has had lots of attention but only one vote by now
*Lewynn agrees with Choxorn and votes DP, noting that DP could also be scum defending/buddying town; overall, reactions from DP are suspicious;
*
*

P10:
*Visor has no read on Monty; Lewwyn sees me as slight scum on post, slight town on meta
*Renata feels one of the people voting her is scum (DP, Monty, Snerk)
*Visor felt that Choxorn on voting DP over Winston because Winston had attention anyway is super villagery; Renata agrees Choxorn purest poster so far
*Renata asks Visor why he think Atheotes town, Visor says no agenda, free flowing posts, liked his reactions to his own attack and posts after the early entrance; Renata says atheotes looks better than other games, but she is not confident/wary/tinfoil
*Visor and Renata leaning Lewwyn town for reasoning; Sooh also thinks Lewwyn looks pretty good
*

P11:
*Arakhor jumps onto Al Sips wagon for no-show, and suspects Monty for role fishing, though unsure wht to make of possibility of lynch spell; Renata doesn't like the last sentence but can't say why
*Renata wants more on Arakhor's analysis of town Visor usually adding throwaway reads, doesn't like him flipping on Al Sip, using many words but saying little, so votes him (though Al vote could be bussing too); Renata likes GH now because he apparently saw this in Arakhor earlier; Arakhor clarifies that he reads people differntly, and in fact sees Visor as town now. for meta; Arakhor adds that his own meta is known for rambling and indecisiveness, and that bussing AlS as scum would be too obvious;
*GH notes that - and excused Visor specifically - >rand scum for people who come in and subtly try to discourage mechanics talk, and uses it to question Arakhor's scum read on me; GH is worried about atheotes and AlS inactivity, for the latter more so, but atheotes scum read; independently too; then GH reads Al comments from earlier games and boosts him up for the lurking based on it;
*BSmith appears, says Al Sips should be given more chances until lurks in pattern, likes Choxorn and Lewwyn; thinks the whole Winston-Zack-Renata confrontation is weird, may or may not be smoke there; Zack and Arakhor are null, vote DP because he's not usual puretown transparent, though that may signal growth as player; Renata likes the post (though there isn't a solid opinion on anyone in it) except the comment on Arakhor being de jure vote of the moment - because he has only 1 vote - so maybe BSmith isn't as caught up as he tries to show; GH doesn't awnt to lynch DP too early, got it wrong in the past
*Renata clarifies on AlS that she didn't like specifically the wording on coming back later to read/catch up given that wording and lack of posts up to then;
*Lewwyn feeling fine with Visor
*GH wants to lynch inside: atheotes, Arakhor, Visor, maybe AlS; null read on BSmith and DP, town read on Zack, Renata, Choxorn, Lewwyn, & Csargo
*DP doesn't like GH, doesn't like Renata's case on Arakhor, wants to know if Visor thanking posts should be town or scummy;
*Renata prefers Arakhor or Al Sips for lynch, mentions trios of DP-Snerk-Monty, and Winston-DP-Zack
*Winston points out that last time someone called Chox pure, he was scum (re: Renata earlier)
*Renata disputes that Arakhor sounds undecided
*

P12:
*Renata's scum list is half the game now
*DP votes Arakhor because his posts sound constructed; Arakhor retorts that his D1 play is always unfocused
*DP suggests Renata has adopted Pizza method of scumming - but not really
*
*

P13:
*Arakhor feels again that Renata on Al is suspicious, voting Arakhor for voting Al
*Renata suggests Monty-Visor-Zack
*Renata feels Arakhor trying to paint her as illogical >rand scum
*Zack feels cases on Arakhor and AlS are bad, esp. Arakhor on awkwardness
*Zack on Visor: His effort and seriousness levels will depend a lot on his teammates and the game state. He tends towards doing less and joking/trolling more than he would as town, but he's certainly capable of being serious and doing a lot as a wolf too. I don't think I ever bother trying to read him d1 in any case.
*Renata would still vote Winston, so she does if Zack pushes; Zack doesn't like Winston's latest solo post on Chox being pure/scum, though Zack is null on Chox
*In current tie Zack would vote DP;
*

P14:
*Sooh is voting Zack because he snarks, quips, and avoids answering question
*Winston complains that Zack doesn't even care whether he scum or town, just tries to paint his comments in worst light to justify keeping a vote on him
*Winston would not lynch Arakhor, could lynch DP for being different and snuggling, Al could lynch, frozen or absent, wouldn't lynch Renata tho doesn't like her justification on changing her own town metagame
*Winston would not lynch Monty, GH, Sooh, Visor, Chox, Lewwyn, probably would Zack, maybe Snerk, Csargo, Bsmith, atheotes;
*GH feels Winston gives reads with many maybes and no yesses; Winston says a yes would involve active campaigning from himself; GH says even top scumread of AlS is only could lynch, difference between could lynch and maybe is?; Winston says it's because they're the most realistic (DP and AlS) options on the maybe spectrum.
*
*

P15:
*GH: CFD on Sooh wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but I'd prefer to lynch elsewhere.
*GH wants more votes on atheotes, Arakhor looking better
*AlS wants to employ Pizza's recced strategy of multiple 2-wagons on D1
*Zack and AlS crosspost makes GH and others tinfoil
*Al Sips on Winston: Winston is obviously my scum partner, always comes to the rescue of his easily lynchable teammate, and backs out and distances himself when confronted, so typically Winston. But he already has few votes.
*GH voted DP because: Didn't like the CFD on Monty, and Dp gives us more spew than Al Sips.
*

P16:
*Winston sees AlS as likely scumbuddy of Zack
*Zack says DP vote-change for 30 sec mean nothing, but AlS looks good for not caring about selfpres
*GH thinks DP wagon looks pure, likes AlS wagon too but will stay on DP

[Zack]

Some of your play this game reminds me uncomfortably of the Democracy game.
Well, what do you expect? As a wolf I try to replicate my town game.

[Montmorency]

Well, what do you expect? As a wolf I try to replicate my town game.

As a wolf you try to replicate your wolf game? !

By the way, why is DP dead exactly? According to OP lore, he just gets banished to another dimension for 100 days or something. Or is it because he wasn't town?

[Arakhor]

Says the guy who voted me on the basis of my single D1 post.

You weren't the focus of my random vote, but even if you had been, I'd have justified staying or switching back in the same way that I did.

[Snerk]

I'm glad we didn't.
You always disagree with me.

[Renata]

Well, what do you expect? As a wolf I try to replicate my town game.

See, so do I, but not all of us are actually good at it.

[Zack]

As a wolf you try to replicate your wolf game? !
If this is a joke, I don't get the punchline. Did you just misread what I said?

[Montmorency]

If this is a joke, I don't get the punchline. Did you just misread what I said?

See Renata's post above. But I don't actually have an idea.

[Arakhor]

By the way, why is DP dead exactly? According to OP lore, he just gets banished to another dimension for 100 days or something. Or is it because he wasn't town?

Kudos for all your note-taking, but you missed the write-up in the OP about how the purification ritual destroys corrupted wizards.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Monty lock town.

[Zack]

Monty lock town.

Nice vote change at the end there. :stare:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Nice vote change at the end there. :stare:

How do you read it as?

[Zack]

Possibly trying to save a teammate, while using the "chaos" line to try and pass it off as some sort of "I like creating chaos when I'm town" thing, which iirc you said in the recent 15er on MU.

Why did you change your vote?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Possibly trying to save a teammate, while using the "chaos" line to try and pass it off as some sort of "I like creating chaos when I'm town" thing, which iirc you said in the recent 15er on MU.

Why did you change your vote?

Gut.

Part of me did like Dp's last couple posts ("I really hate D1" and "somebody please be a hero here") too.

[Zack]

:stare:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Possibly trying to save a teammate, while using the "chaos" line to try and pass it off as some sort of "I like creating chaos when I'm town" thing, which iirc you said in the recent 15er on MU.

Why did you change your vote?

Okay let's walk through this.

Let's say I am scum and trying to save a teammate. I did so in the highest-profile, most futile manner possible by the last second change after Renata had already put the capper on him, right?

Wouldn't it be more likely that, as scum, I:
1) don't jump on the Dp counter-CFD in the first place in reaction to the original Monty CFD and go somewhere else?
2) initially stand my ground on doing so and even provide reasons for why I preferred Dp eating rope over Al?
3) switch over to Al with more than like 3 seconds left in the round using some super thin reasoning to vote Al as the clock was running out?

If I'm scum along with Dp, I had like three exit lanes, including the possibility of not getting on the highway at all in the first place, and I didn't take any of them.

[Choxorn]

Quick analysis of voting:

-DP101 wagon is pure af, especially Monty and Renata
-Al maybe scum anyway, but I'm not seeing it yet
-On Al's wagon, Winston looks most suspicious, followed closely by GH, Visor and Arakhor a little shady but not as much so
-Null reads on basically everyone off the wagons, Al, Csargo and Sooh didn't say much, Atheotes was weird with Visor early on but nothing else about him really jumps out, Snerk's obsession with Renata is odd but I'd expect him to jump to one of the main wagons if he was scum with DP

[Jabbz]

Notice:

As a point of clarification due to the number of questions I have received.

When spells list a role in parentheses, you can expect that spell to function in a manner consistent with it's comparable ability.

For example (This is not a role/spell, I'm making this up for explanation purposes only)

Corporeal Reading: After this spell is performed, the casting mage can pick one dead player to visit, and will learn their role. (Mortician)

You could expect this spell to operate in a manner consistent to the Mortician ability.

[Choxorn]

Actually, on second thought and a quick re-read, I find it kind of odd that Al stayed on Monty when he was obviously around at EoD and it was pretty clear that it was going to be either him or DP getting lynched. Why wouldn't he switch to dp for self-pres?

+Scum points to Al, unless he can adequately explain why he insisted on staying on Monty.

[Sooh]

What question? lol

I have like... less than ten posts this game so far. It wouldn't break your back to go back and find out.

I was asking about your change on GH early on.



GJ on the lynch people. I'm in the process of coming out of a fever haze, so I'll reread the game and see where I'm at then. Renata looks good from EOD, but if she hasn't been murdered by like D4-5 (depending on how this works with deaths at night when there are spells and such things) I'll take a look back there. For me, for now, she's clear.

GH looks pretty bad for that EOD, at least pending a flip on Al sips. Also nicely pointed out that Al refused to self preserve, whoever said that.

Btw, I hate that the tally is alphabetical and doesn't list people in the order they voted.

[Arakhor]

The tally in #471 lists sequential voting by nominee.

[Sooh]

I was talking about 497.

Discussing about wagons and such now just makes such a hassle, because you have to go back and find the actual posts and time stamps in order to get the order of votes on a person. But I guess we just have to live with it.

I doubt there were many scums bussing D1. I'd say one, maybe two at most. (on DP I mean)

[Jabbz]

Resolution post for day 1 has been Updated.

Trying to set a timer, no promises it's working

If someone could PM me with an explanation of how to link a specific thread in a post (so I can annotate resolution posts in the front of the thread) that would also be appreciated.



Yeah that didn't work. Would appreciate help on that as well :P

[Jabbz]

Btw, I hate that the tally is alphabetical and doesn't list people in the order they voted.

I might fiddle around with that, though it will add a decent amount to my workload (have to track time of post as well as the vote). In past games I've hosted I've had a wonderful tool to make use of, sadly I don't have that here.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Resolution post for day 1 has been Updated.

Trying to set a timer, no promises it's working

If someone could PM me with an explanation of how to link a specific thread in a post (so I can annotate resolution posts in the front of the thread) that would also be appreciated.

[TIMER=2/7/2017 20:00 PM GMT; Night Phase Over][/_TIMER]

Yeah that didn't work. Would appreciate help on that as well :P

Lose the underscore in your end bracket and it should work.

[Jabbz]

I think it might have gotten worse :P

[GeneralHankerchief]

I think it might have gotten worse :P

Permission to edit your post to figure it out?

[Montmorency]

I doubt there were many scums bussing D1. I'd say one, maybe two at most. (on DP I mean)

Two out of 3 or 4 sounds good enough for "many" to me.

Jabbz, you already keep a separate list of vote changes; interpolate that into the regular tally, and sequential order becomes easier.

[Zack]

I might fiddle around with that, though it will add a decent amount to my workload (have to track time of post as well as the vote). In past games I've hosted I've had a wonderful tool to make use of, sadly I don't have that here.
What I've done in the past is use an excel sheet, then put the post the vote was made along with the vote itself in a table. Then you can sort by the post number column from smallest to largest.

[Visor]

Nice job on DP.


Actually, on second thought and a quick re-read, I find it kind of odd that Al stayed on Monty when he was obviously around at EoD and it was pretty clear that it was going to be either him or DP getting lynched. Why wouldn't he switch to dp for self-pres?

+Scum points to Al, unless he can adequately explain why he insisted on staying on Monty.

Having not read anything prior to the flip, I'm just guessing, but he's probably a wolf who didn't want to vote another wolf. That might be wanting more than guessing though.

[Zack]

I have like... less than ten posts this game so far. It wouldn't break your back to go back and find out.

I was asking about your change on GH early on.
Oh, I thought I already addressed that one. Time passed and I liked GH's posts after that. :shrug:

Wouldn't break your back to simply repeat the question if it's that important to you. I'm not answering it for me.

[Montmorency]

Things by DP (leaving out facetious material, which generally went toward Renata):

1. Renata started D1 like this:


Maybe Dp gets a hi, maybe not. Depends if he's a scumbag.

Further assurance not to rule out distancing.

2. And:


Dp, I still don't know if I'm allowed to consort with you.

How could you know, it's only been 5 hours.

3. To Winston's entrance:


Hi. Are you scum?

4. Comments on the Winston-Zack kerfuffle:


I think that both Zack and Winston are clearly town from this engagement.

Why? Winston was clearly joking around, Zack tried to assign a read to it, Winston reacted calmly and in a town way. Both are clearly towny after that.

Renata, I really, really disagree with your continued pushing of winston. It looks exactly like mafia pushing a slightly odd townie, and I would have expected that town!you would have found something else by now.

Could there be spew on one of Zack and Winston? Altogether, I would bet hard on there being scum in this trio, harder than I would bet on DP being town.

5. To Zack:


Tone. Everything about his posts feels like the same, standard, "I'm going to try to be village and have a good time, even if it gets me scumread" that I always see from him. If anyone else was posting in the way that he was, I would be perfectly fine with someone going after them, but this right here is exactly what I have come to expect from him.

6. To Lewwyn:


Why do you find my statement the only thing worth jumping on? Also, why do you think that a length of time passing would make it more scummy?

This makes sense, I should have realised. Sorry for miscategorising your post.

6. To Choxorn voting him:


If you think I'm defending a scumbuddy, then why aren't you voting the supposed scum that I am defending? You make no sense.

7. To GH noting that Al Sipsclar and atheotes have gone inactive:


Do you think that their lurking is alignment indicative? They both always seem to be kind of low posters, so I don't see what you think is so out of the ordinary with this.

Any spew?

8. To Renata complaining about him:


I might switch. Feels like GH hasn't done much, and would be a decent option. Dislike your current case, mostly because I can't see anything alignment indicative in anything you quoted. Do you know if Visor is more serious or more jokey as mafia? It might help me figure out if the thanking posts without posting thing he did earlier was towny or not.

Visor and GH are mentioned here as targets for lynch or scrutiny. By current case, unsure if he means Renata on Arakhor or on Al Sipsclar.

But immediately after at any rate, he voted Arakhor.


I went back and reread your post, and yeah, that looks a lot worse than I thought the first time I read it. The later posts feel like they have more content in them, but it overall feels like scum trying to construct things to talk about, rather than making authentic cases. Arakhor

9. To Renata remarking that all her scum reads are voting each other:


It's great, isn't it? Maybe you could even be wrong on some of them?

When Arakhor confronts him over this/DP's vote on him:


A possibility. I just don't have anything stronger. Who should I be on, if not you?

I could see that as spew town on Arakhor.

10. After that came his EOD stuff, which I won't cover except for his initial vote onto Al Sipsclar:


Well, an afk lynch is better than a me lynch. Al Sips

[Jabbz]

Permission to edit your post to figure it out?
Granted

[Jabbz]

What I've done in the past is use an excel sheet, then put the post the vote was made along with the vote itself in a table. Then you can sort by the post number column from smallest to largest.

That is so much easier than what I was thinking of doing. Thank you Zack. This will deff happen for day 2, I might retro do it for day 1 will all edits. I will post if that is what I do.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Granted

Okay it's what I thought it was. You're using a 24-hour clock (20:00 PM) - you need to use a 12-hour clock (8:00 PM) for it to work.

[Jabbz]

Okay it's what I thought it was. You're using a 24-hour clock (20:00 PM) - you need to use a 12-hour clock (8:00 PM) for it to work.

Got it. TY.

[Choxorn]

Having not read anything prior to the flip, I'm just guessing, but he's probably a wolf who didn't want to vote another wolf. That might be wanting more than guessing though.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking, and he switched to Monty right before dp did, and his reasons for voting Monty were kind of odd, like he was trying as hard as he could to avoid voting dp without actually addressing the wagon on dp. He never actually mentioned dp once during the day, despite the fact that Al and DP were the two leading wagons at EoD.

It just sounds like what two scumbuddies would do if they were getting wagoned and wanted to try to shift the momentum onto someone else and hope they could get a townie lynched.

[GeneralHankerchief]

The one hole I can poke in the "Dp/Al Sipsclar both scum" theory is that Dp's exact role name is "corrupted mage", which appears to be your regular garden-variety mafioso as per the OP. If there are power levels amongst the scum team or something along those lines, it's unlikely that Dp would have pushed Al Sips as hard as he did if Al was more useful to the scum team ability-wise.

Of course, if this isn't the case, or if they were both regular corrupted mages, then the above paragraph obviously no longer applies.

[Montmorency]

I'm guessing, as per usual, that scum can enact both an individual ability and the team kill at the same time; given the role madness setup, it's all but certain.

There could be special abilities unique to the scum, but there are probably also some powers that overlap between scum and town. Alternatively, scum have single defined abilities as is more typical, but for "Corrupted Mages" at least the multiple one-shots mechanic likely applies.

What we probably have to look out for is:

1. Factional bonus kill.
2. Beefed up Mafia godfather/don/grandmaster, who will likely be able to at minimum counter most town night actions against him - maybe even against his team to some extent.
3. Maybe, if Zack is town and not lying, and Jabbz has offered at least one instance of a "lynchproof" ability to town, then I would venture the Mafia have a factional lynchproof shot, or the grandmaster has innate lynchproof one-shot or until some conditions are met.

Anyone who could take a look at the precursor game Jabbz hosted, shed some light on the above.

[Montmorency]

Hey, did Jabbz say there's no cult-like recruitment in this game?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I think it's >rand that Dp, still being a relatively new player/mafioso, wouldn't interact with/comment on his scumbuddies as much as he would regular townies.

Per Monty's list (don't feel like going back over Dp's posts right now, maybe tomorrow), this gives a small boost to:
Renata
Winston
Zack
Lewwyn
Choxorn
GH

(though full disclosure, I think the question he asked me about Al Sips/atheotes is something that a mafioso is likely to ask his partner, it's super neutral but yet still appears to be solve-y - though obviously I'm not dissecting it further because I'm town)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hey, did Jabbz say there's no cult-like recruitment in this game?

Just "no bastard elements" - but I think that's stupid crap like jokers, etc. than cults. Can't rule it out.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Just "no bastard elements" - but I think that's stupid crap like jokers, etc. than cults. Can't rule it out.

edit to the above, that should read "that's *more stupid crap like jokers, etc"

[Renata]

Unadvertised cults are stupid crap, IMO.

[Visor]

Advertised Cults are still stupid crap, IMO.

[Al Sipsclar]

Actually, on second thought and a quick re-read, I find it kind of odd that Al stayed on Monty when he was obviously around at EoD and it was pretty clear that it was going to be either him or DP getting lynched. Why wouldn't he switch to dp for self-pres?

+Scum points to Al, unless he can adequately explain why he insisted on staying on Monty.

Did I ever switch for self-pres, in any game? Re-read again, I already explained: I didn't mind being lynched, seeing myself as a weak point for the town. I prefer to be mislynched earlier than in the endgame. I also didn't want to condemn DP, who I thought was more townie than me, to prolong my sufferings. Unless I can vote for someone I convinced is scum, I don't believe I should self-pres.

Besides, DP didn't hesitate to vote me, his supposed teammate, why would I have any reservations to vote him, especially if it could be easily explained by self-pres? Me, who easily bussed GH and Pizza when we were the scum together in the Confection game?

I wanted to test Pizza's D1 strategy of multiple length 2 wagons, and Monty was a suitable candidate with a single vote on him when I was writing my post.

[Al Sipsclar]

Yeah, that was what I was thinking, and he switched to Monty right before dp did, and his reasons for voting Monty were kind of odd, like he was trying as hard as he could to avoid voting dp without actually addressing the wagon on dp. He never actually mentioned dp once during the day, despite the fact that Al and DP were the two leading wagons at EoD.

Dp was flailing, and switched to Monty because Zack and I just voted Monty. I didn't care about any wagon longer than two, Dp's or my own wagons included.

[Montmorency]

My official leans list:

Monty ---- 100%
Al Sipsclar
Chox
Lewwyn
Arakhor

---- 75%

Snerk
Csargo
Sooh
Visor
Atheotes

---- 50~60%

BSmith
Renata
Zack
GH
Winston
---- 33%

[Jabbz]

Cults, Jokers, Millers and their ilk, Confused and or paranoid cop/fbi/seer/etc, are all bastard elements in my book. Further I will not tell you things that are false, as that is also a bastard move.

[Zack]

My official leans list:

Monty ---- 100%
Al Sipsclar
Chox
Lewwyn
Arakhor

---- 75%

Snerk
Csargo
Sooh
Visor
Atheotes

---- 50~60%

BSmith
Renata
Zack
GH
Winston
---- 33%

what a weird list

[Zack]

Advertised Cults are still stupid crap, IMO.

nsp GOAT

[Lewwyn]

And I was so excited for this game too… GG.

Sry bro, GG

[Lewwyn]

Gut.

Part of me did like Dp's last couple posts ("I really hate D1" and "somebody please be a hero here") too.

Fair. In those last posts DP was tapping into a honest desire to keep playing and having fun.

[Lewwyn]

I'm reading town on Al Sipsclar. Scum would vote for self-pres even against other scum. One of them is going down best to be in on the scum lynch. I think its more likely that a townie would not self-pres, simply because a townie doesn't have full knowledge of the game and can't be sure the other wagon is on scum. That sort of lack of certainty leads to things like not voting for self-preservation.

[Choxorn]

I'm reading town on Al Sipsclar. Scum would vote for self-pres even against other scum. One of them is going down best to be in on the scum lynch. I think its more likely that a townie would not self-pres, simply because a townie doesn't have full knowledge of the game and can't be sure the other wagon is on scum. That sort of lack of certainty leads to things like not voting for self-preservation.

I guess, but he could elect not to self-pres on his scumbuddy if his scumbuddy is more valuable than him, and I don't get why you wouldn't self-pres as town. You're the only one you're 100% sure is townie, and accordingly, the overwhelming majority of the time, you're the worst possible lynch in your own eyes. I certainly don't get why you wouldn't want to self-pres on Day 1, there's usually not enough information on Day 1 to be able to read someone as significantly more likely to be town than just picking at random. Unless it's between you and a claimed power role and you're vanilla townie and you really trust the claim, I don't see why you'd ever not self-pres as town on Day 1.

[Lewwyn]

I guess, but he could elect not to self-pres on his scumbuddy if his scumbuddy is more valuable than him, and I don't get why you wouldn't self-pres as town. You're the only one you're 100% sure is townie, and accordingly, the overwhelming majority of the time, you're the worst possible lynch in your own eyes. I certainly don't get why you wouldn't want to self-pres on Day 1, there's usually not enough information on Day 1 to be able to read someone as significantly more likely to be town than just picking at random. Unless it's between you and a claimed power role and you're vanilla townie and you really trust the claim, I don't see why you'd ever not self-pres as town on Day 1.

I agree with you, but it happens. I've seen townies self vote and kill themselves on Day 1 because they thought they were weak townies and the other guy was more townie, not involving power roles.

[Sooh]

Two out of 3 or 4 sounds good enough for "many" to me.

Jabbz, you already keep a separate list of vote changes; interpolate that into the regular tally, and sequential order becomes easier.

Like I said, two at most. Might be that some weren't here for EOD who bussed earlier in the day when it looked safe, and some felt they couldn't jump off because it would seem strange.

[Sooh]

Oh, I thought I already addressed that one. Time passed and I liked GH's posts after that. :shrug:

Wouldn't break your back to simply repeat the question if it's that important to you. I'm not answering it for me.

Took you some time to even say you didn't remember though.

I was looking for a more solid explanation a little sooner, however I doubt it'll be important for me moving on. I felt comfortable having that pressure on you at EOD because you weren't responding to me, plus you were in no danger of being lynched for it. I didn't trust myself and my fever to properly read and analyze the thread. Not to worry though. I should be better D2.

[Sooh]

My official leans list:

Monty ---- 100%
Al Sipsclar
Chox
Lewwyn
Arakhor

---- 75%

Snerk
Csargo
Sooh
Visor
Atheotes

---- 50~60%

BSmith
Renata
Zack
GH
Winston
---- 33%
Can you clarify slightly?

I assume the higher the percentage, the higher likelihood of people being town??

If you can put a word or two of reasoning behind each one, or as many as you can, that would be awesome.

[Csargo]

My official leans list:

Monty ---- 100%
Al Sipsclar
Chox
Lewwyn
Arakhor

---- 75%

Snerk
Csargo
Sooh
Visor
Atheotes

---- 50~60%

BSmith
Renata
Zack
GH
Winston
---- 33%

Woo just what I wanted to be, middle of the road. Sweet.

[Csargo]

I feel like GH and Renata are squeaky clean at this point. I'm not sure I understand this list...

[Csargo]

Also, just for full disclosure I would have unvoted Arakhor had I been around earlier. I'm working in the dark in regards to a few people in this game. I liked BSmith's posts that I read. Good stuff.

[Zack]

I feel like GH and Renata are squeaky clean at this point. I'm not sure I understand this list...

um what about me

[Csargo]

um what about me

:sweetheart:

[Jabbz]

Halfway point.

[Arakhor]

Fair. In those last posts DP was tapping into a honest desire to keep playing and having fun.

I tend to agree. Day One (and by extension Night One) are often the worst part of a mafia game, particularly for a couple of sods who don't get to participate further.

[atheotes]

Hey guys. Yesterday turned out more hectic than i expected and was not able to get back here.
good job on lynching the wolf in puppies clothing!
I am hoping to catch up today before d2 starts.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Fair. In those last posts DP was tapping into a honest desire to keep playing and having fun.

I don't like this post, it seems too confident about reading into Dp's emotional state at the time.

[Renata]

I feel like GH and Renata are squeaky clean at this point. I'm not sure I understand this list...

I'd love for you to explain your conclusions here.

[Csargo]

I'd love for you to explain your conclusions here.

Your vote basically sentenced Dp101 to be lynched, so that's pretty straightforward I would think. I don't think GH would switch his vote knowing it wouldn't really do anything as scum. It would garner more suspicion than just leaving it. It was an extremely town thing to do imo.

[Renata]

All right.

Thing is, I think some people have been misreading the vote count when both GH and I moved our votes. My vote change made it 7-4 in favor of Dp (from 6-5). I wanted to avoid someone coming along to tie it up, but I knew he was already ahead. Nobody except maybe Monty (based on his reads list) seems to realize that, and I'm just wondering if the lack of attention/easy read here is alignment indicative in any of your cases.

[Arakhor]

I knew that you were putting Dp ahead - not only did I make both the very late tallies, you said as much yourself!

[Csargo]

All right.

Thing is, I think some people have been misreading the vote count when both GH and I moved our votes. My vote change made it 7-4 in favor of Dp (from 6-5). I wanted to avoid someone coming along to tie it up, but I knew he was already ahead. Nobody except maybe Monty (based on his reads list) seems to realize that, and I'm just wondering if the lack of attention/easy read here is alignment indicative in any of your cases.

Yeah, I was aware of vote count when you placed your vote. I'm not sure I understand that last sentence...

[Csargo]

And to be fair I said I was leaning towards you being town earlier in the day, and now I'm grasping at anything I can to make myself feel better.

[Renata]

I knew that you were putting Dp ahead - not only did I make both the very late tallies, you said as much yourself!

I think my exact comment was "no ties".

[Renata]

Yeah, I was aware of vote count when you placed your vote. I'm not sure I understand that last sentence...

I'm not sure I can explain it any better. Neither I nor GH actually changed the outcome of the lynch. Dp was in the lead the entire time, from before I voted until after GH did. I feel like some of the analysis done on each of us since EoD has been shallow --- Sooh's post 540 was actually the first I noticed in that regard -- and I wonder whether that shallowness means anything. I'm not pushing too hard because I like you otherwise, and Sooh's been sick and deserves a chance to prove herself, but it stood out.

[Renata]

Csargo, who are your scum reads?

[Zack]

Was gh aware he was not changing the outcome? That's what matters, the intent.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Was gh aware he was not changing the outcome? That's what matters, the intent.

I remember Dp101 being one ahead in the vote count before Renata put the capper on him, but for some reason her "No ties" statement overwrote that in my head and I thought I'd be tying it up.

I did intend to tie the vote, yes.

[Renata]

Was gh aware he was not changing the outcome? That's what matters, the intent.

I don't think he was, actually. The wording with the chaoschaoschaos suggests he thought he was accomplishing something more than nothing, and his defense to Monty earlier tonight acknowledges that as well.

[Sooh]

I'm not sure I can explain it any better. Neither I nor GH actually changed the outcome of the lynch. Dp was in the lead the entire time, from before I voted until after GH did. I feel like some of the analysis done on each of us since EoD has been shallow --- Sooh's post 540 was actually the first I noticed in that regard -- and I wonder whether that shallowness means anything. I'm not pushing too hard because I like you otherwise, and Sooh's been sick and deserves a chance to prove herself, but it stood out.

I honestly really thought that GH tied it up. Especially with how he worded it. In any event, your vote is still looking good imo, because it made it impossible for Dp to survive D1. I don't think a mafioso would do that to another on D1. GH on the other hand. That's still a bit up in the air. I mean, it becomes wifom when you start thinking about it too much.

[Renata]

Thanks. Would really love your wolf reads when you have them.

[Renata]

I attempted to iso Zack from the Democracy game in order to complete Monty's homework assignment on Zack's attitude toward low posters when a wolf. Problem is, it only saves the last 100 posts, and Zack had almost 600 in that game. I don't think my WIM is high enough to look into it any further when odds are decent a town Zack turns up dead before too long anyway.

For what it's worth, all that I found in those hundred posts was a complaint that Al is hard to read when he doesn't talk to anybody.

[atheotes]

I'm wary of atheotes these days. He's gotten past my day one radar in two recent scum games of his (I never evaluated past day one because the turdface killed me n1 both times). I agree his opening looks fine (better than at least one of those scum games; I don't remember the other), but I'm not confident.

:stare: It was never me who wanted you dead. In the cereal killers game i tried to stop it thinking you were being too obvious town to be a PR. I was over ruled by my team mates and you turned up as a town PR.
In the other game too, it was not my decision. I did not try hard to stop them though because you were pretty clear for getting my teammate lynched.

[atheotes]

I am caught up until EOD. Will post my reads during the day.

[Csargo]

I'm not sure I can explain it any better. Neither I nor GH actually changed the outcome of the lynch. Dp was in the lead the entire time, from before I voted until after GH did. I feel like some of the analysis done on each of us since EoD has been shallow --- Sooh's post 540 was actually the first I noticed in that regard -- and I wonder whether that shallowness means anything. I'm not pushing too hard because I like you otherwise, and Sooh's been sick and deserves a chance to prove herself, but it stood out.

What? You were voting Al and it was 6-5 Dp101 iirc. It could have been a different outcome had you not changed. I see your point I guess. GH not realizing the count is something I didn't notice.

I don't really have much beyond what I've said as far as scum. Visor possibly, I need to reread the Winston exchange from yesterday. I need to look through the thread tonight.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Csargo]

I honestly really thought that GH tied it up. Especially with how he worded it. In any event, your vote is still looking good imo, because it made it impossible for Dp to survive D1. I don't think a mafioso would do that to another on D1. GH on the other hand. That's still a bit up in the air. I mean, it becomes wifom when you start thinking about it too much.
This. She said it better than I could.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Jabbz]

Notice
Due to the nature of this game, nighttime resolutions will take a little bit. If nothing else there is the time limit on emails.

As a result, chatting in the thread will end at 12:00 PST/20:00 GMT, and it will likely be closed for appx 15 mins.

[Jabbz]

A reminder, all chat must stop at 12:00 PST/20:00 GMT. Posting at :59 is acceptable. Posting at :00 will get you zapped and cost you mana.

[Renata]

If I wake up dead, my top three scum are currently:

BSmith: didn't like his first post, and vote on Dp could easily be bussing
Visor: very lacking overall, nothing resembling a clearing interaction
Arakhor: yeah still ... vote on him from Dp looked half-hearted, and the other reasons remain

All need review though, Arkahor the most.

[Jabbz]

No Posting

Following the death of Dp101, the Council members separated and wandered into different parts of the Keep. For those loyal to the Council, Dp101’s death was a horrifying confirmation that Corruption was real, and that it posed a threat not only to their lives, but to everything they stood for. For the allies of Dp101, his death simply served to reinforce their need to bring the Council, and the world, to its knees. Everyone who participated in the spectacle left with more resolve, not less.

Throughout the night the mages took great effort in keeping distance between themselves and their fellows. Partly they wished to minimize distracts enough that they could come to grips with the day’s events. Partly they wanted to be able to cast their magics in peace and quiet, without any observing them. Mostly however, they simply did not feel safe.
For two of them, their fears were justified.

Bsmith had wandered towards the battlements in his quest for isolation. Having been a member of the Council for many decades, he knew that most mages were loath to put for the physical effort of climbing the twenty floors worth of stairs necessary to ascend to the top. He however, had always enjoyed watching the sunrise from this vantage point, and feared he might not have many more opportunities to do so. As dawn neared he stared towards the east, watching the horizon slowly brighten, when he saw a glow on the battlements in front of him, as if there were a second sun rising in the west. Before he could even contemplate how strange that was, he was hit by a blast of flame. He never did get to see his sunrise, though his corpse landed in the courtyard, and was shortly thereafter bathed in it’s light.

Bsmith has been killed. He was a Guild Member.

Where Bsmith had sought the light, Al Sipsclar did his best to avoid it. Throughout the day he had been under a great deal of threat and stress. Well aware of how close he had come to being exposed to the Ritual of Purification in Dp101’s place, he found thinking difficult, and every movement, sound, or flicker of a candle to be distracting. Thus he sought out the catacombs, finding himself in darkness and quiet. While deep in his meditations he too saw a glow that was out of place. Unlike Bsmith however, the darkness gave him ample warning of the spells approach. This was not a kindness, as he had just enough time to scream in fear and denial before the blast of flame consumed his flesh. As with Dp101, his death released green lightnings that paraded around the entire castle.

Al Sispclar has been killed. He was a Corrupted Mage.

Day two has not yet started. No posting until all PM’s are sent, and I post acknowledge the game resumes.

[Jabbz]

Day two ends in

All Pm's are out. Posting may resume.

[Renata]

Anyone who doubted my ability to scum read off of one post can now kindly suck my, erm, popsicle. I guess that'll do. Popsicles are good.

Honestly, it was probably sheer luck.

Anyway, all my assumptions need re-doing because I had Al Sips firmly back in the nulls after his reappearance and I wasn't particularly expecting the wagons to be w/w after all.

[Jabbz]

Notice

Each player will receive an email some time in the next 24h confirming what spells they have remaining, and how much mana they have.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yeah, anyone else want to shade me for switching to Al Sips yesterday?

[Montmorency]

Wow. Well.

Play it safe and assume 2 scum left.

Renata lock clear.

Arakhor pretty good.

Winston, Visor, and GH a bit better.

Still like Choxorn and Lewwyn.

Lynchtable: Vote: Atheotes.

Notice: Al Sipsclar sarcasm re: BSmith as partner during the night. Interesting.


I overestimated my impact yesterday and used my only defensive power:

[/SPOIL]https://i.imgur.com/oq3nHLf.gif[/SPOIL]

[Renata]

Anyone who doubted my ability to scum read off of one post can now kindly suck my, erm, popsicle. I guess that'll do. Popsicles are good.

Honestly, it was probably sheer luck.

Anyway, all my assumptions need re-doing because I had Al Sips firmly back in the nulls after his reappearance and I wasn't particularly expecting the wagons to be w/w after all.

Not to mention BSmith being town.

[Jabbz]

Notice

Do to repeated questions: Yes, when you cast a spell that mana is consumed, and reduces the total amount of mana you have for the remainder of the game. If your mana is gone, you cannot cast spells, even if you somehow have some left. There are no methods for a player to refresh their mana or spells.

[Renata]

Yeah, anyone else want to shade me for switching to Al Sips yesterday?

A less charitable person than me would note that if it doesn't matter who you vote it ... doesn't matter who you vote. I think you still look decent for other reasons, though.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Other people on the 30-second Monty CFD attempt last night were Zack (who quickly switched off to Dp), and Al himself.

Not ready to scumread Zack by any stretch but I am making a note of it.

[Renata]

Wow. Well.

Play it safe and assume 2 scum left.

Renata lock clear.

Arakhor pretty good.

Winston, Visor, and GH a bit better.

Still like Choxorn and Lewwyn.

Lynchtable: Vote: Atheotes.

Notice: Al Sipsclar sarcasm re: BSmith as partner during the night. Interesting.


I overestimated my impact yesterday and used my only defensive power:

[/SPOIL]https://i.imgur.com/oq3nHLf.gif[/SPOIL]

Dare I ask what that image is?

[Montmorency]

Dare I ask what that image is?

Ghost.

[Sooh]

Yeah, anyone else want to shade me for switching to Al Sips yesterday?

*throws shade*

*literally blocks the sunlight from hitting GH*

Nah, good move, dude, even though I'm still not sure whether you moved because you wanted to tie the vote or because you really thought he was scum. Your intent does have a say here.

[Arakhor]

That's interesting. I've never seen two scum die in just two phases before. Maybe there is some sort of vigilante spell going around or maybe someone linked Al unawares to the health of BSmith and the scum inadvertently killed one of their own.

[Montmorency]

That's interesting. I've never seen two scum die in just two phases before. Maybe there is some sort of vigilante spell going around or maybe someone linked Al unawares to the health of BSmith and the scum inadvertently killed one of their own.

There is - at least, the option was presented to me. Again though, I neither confirm nor deny selecting it. But I had nothing to do with tonight's deaths.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Part of Zack's EoD from yesterday. Apparently .Org multiquote maxes out at 6 and I just want it cleared. Will take a closer look at this later.


What question? lol


It's like I think you're wolfy.


Voting someone for not answering some random question you stubbornly refuse to repeat :thumbsdown:


Montmorency


Dp101


Why the hell are people voting for Al. Low postcount is not wolfy in and of itself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Unrelated to above: Arakhor, I think that's... a really convoluted explanation for BSmith dying, but I kind of want to townread you for it.

[Arakhor]

Unrelated to above: Arakhor, I think that's... a really convoluted explanation for BSmith dying, but I kind of want to townread you for it.

Well, thank you, but I do at least have form in convoluted power set-ups. Tempus Fugit was basically the poster-child for unintended power combinations in a role madness game. ~;p

[Montmorency]

So it does seem scum targeted BSmith for nightkill - but why?

He had only 5 posts, fewest of all players, posted in one half-hour stretch.

Post 1, he votes for Al Sipsclar, unvotes, votes DP101. Singles out Zack slightly in the Zack-Winston-Renata confrontation.


Apologies for my late arrival. Normal weekend issues compounded with having a kid that had a fever of 102+ for three days has made it hard to get engaged.

vote: Al Sips

Now that I got that out of the way… I don’t know that I can fault him for coming into the thread and placing his normal D1 vote on me. A bit worrisome that he hasn’t been back, but like I can complain about lack of attendance. If it becomes a pattern, then let’s lynch. Otherwise I don’t think he is worthy of a lynch today. unvote.

Posters I like so far
- Choxorn
- lewwyn

Posters I question
- The whole renata/Winston/Zack thing is weird to me. Might be nothing but there is smoke there I think. Problem is I don’t know where the smoke is coming from exactly.
- Zack is up to his usual shenanigans (being obtuse with answering questions, then feigning offence when people press him on it). Problem is he does this in both alignments.
- DP is not his usual transparent townie self, but that could just be because he is maturing as a player

Everyone else
- Pretty much null at this point on everyone else. Arakhor is the vote de jure at the moment is seems. I don’t see his activity being much out his of meta, though I have been burned by that in the past.

I guess for now I’ll go with vote: Dp101.

The rest of his posts were just responses to Renata's questions. Was this really enough?

[Renata]

Vote: Visor

I'm aware he voted for Al Sips.

[Montmorency]

Spicy...

[GeneralHankerchief]

If BSmith was a mafia kill, that was a terrible selection on their part, I came into the thread today fully planning on going after him.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Arakhor, what's your town and scum lists looking like right now?

[Renata]

So it does seem scum targeted BSmith for nightkill - but why?

He had only 5 posts, fewest of all players, posted in one half-hour stretch.

Post 1, he votes for Al Sipsclar, unvotes, votes DP101. Singles out Zack slightly in the Zack-Winston-Renata confrontation.



The rest of his posts were just responses to Renata's questions. Was this really enough?

I'm playing with the idea that both BSmith and Al Sips were vig kills and the mafia hit a protection. (Or multiple protections, if they took multiple shots.) If they did kill him, maybe it was out of fear of how cheap all thsoe various means of protection and self-protection are, and they just wanted to ensure they hit somebody?

Even if Zack's scum, which I can see now more than last night, I doubt that tiny bit of shade that BSmith cast would be a decision-maker for them.

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: Visor

I'm aware he voted for Al Sips.

Bit weak, don't you think?

Vote: Visor

[Renata]

Bit weak, don't you think?

Vote: Visor

Terribly.

[Montmorency]

When is the part where I demand night results from everyone and spreadsheet the game by tomorrow?

[Montmorency]

Not even spreadsheet: Notepad. :evil:

[Renata]

When is the part where I demand night results from everyone and spreadsheet the game by tomorrow?

Get 'em from the scummy people first.

[Arakhor]

Arakhor, what's your town and scum lists looking like right now?

Well, given that both my targets from yesterday turned out to be scum, fairly empty right now. I'll have to go back and review the thread some more.

I will note that it was interesting that Al came up with that half-baked excuse about how I might have some sort of grudge against him from a previous game. That is, it would be fairly half-baked if he was town, but since he was also scum, I'm guessing it was a fairly odd attempt at deflection.

[Renata]

Winston, you going to pull out some pure tones today? I think you're pretty well spewed clear, but I can't say for sure it'd hold up at LYLO right now, not that I'll make it that far.

[Montmorency]

Atheotes-Visor is an interesting parallelism. I don't think they could both be scum, so might as well pressure both at once.

Atheotes has been more assertive in his town game lately, but in this game - he just isn't responding to the content throughout the day.

Mostly irrelevant banter or humor, from his few posts.

At start of day, he accused me of being scum and voted me on the basis of a gif I posted. Town atheotes would not do that. He would either seriously take that as evidence and make a case against me, or he wouldn't vote me at all.

[Renata]

Not even in RVS? /devil's advocate

[Montmorency]

Not even in RVS? /devil's advocate

RVS?

[Choxorn]

Other people on the 30-second Monty CFD attempt last night were Zack (who quickly switched off to Dp), and Al himself.

Not ready to scumread Zack by any stretch but I am making a note of it.

I'd say that Zack suddenly switching back to Dp makes him look better, if he was mafia and wanted to go with the rest of his teammates on a CFD he would have stayed on Monty, if he was mafia and didn't want to join the CFD he would have had no reason to switch off Dp in the first place. Unless he just wants to be confusing and screw with us, I don't see why Zack would do that as scum.


If BSmith was a mafia kill, that was a terrible selection on their part, I came into the thread today fully planning on going after him.

Maybe they didn't try to kill BSmith, but there was a bus driver?


Bit weak, don't you think?



Terribly.

What's a bit weak?

[Winston Hughes]

What's a bit weak?

Since it worked out so well, I'm repeating what I did yesterday: calling Renata's vote weak, then sheeping it.

[Renata]

RVS?

Random vote stage. Silly season.

[Renata]

Since it worked out so well, I'm repeating what I did yesterday: calling Renata's vote weak, then sheeping it.

You are causing me physical pain right now.

[Montmorency]

Random vote stage. Silly season.

Lack of content afterwards makes it suspect. Lodge the obligatory random vote, and then fade out into lurking. We'll see when he posts his reads.

To reiterate: I call on people to own up to their night results. I began by presenting my own night action, which was - in game terms - to hide/commute myself.

[Renata]

Lack of content afterwards makes it suspect. Lodge the obligatory random vote, and then fade out into lurking. We'll see when he posts his reads.

To reiterate: I call on people to own up to their night results. I began by presenting my own night action, which was - in game terms - to hide/commute myself.

What do you expect to gain from this, besides outing the vig (which to be fair I'm not entirely sure would be a bad thing).

[Montmorency]

What do you expect to gain from this, besides outing the vig (which to be fair I'm not entirely sure would be a bad thing).

I stand by my D1 recommendation to avoid revealing Tier-4 selections or actions. The one-shot would be used in this case, but it would reveal a tempting target in the form of a largely-cleared townie. Whether or not someone would like to serve as Bsmith did in the Democracy game (claimed vig ftw), I leave to individual discretion.

(Then again, it does take heat off me and Renata if someone claims vig).

[Winston Hughes]

To reiterate: I call on people to own up to their night results. I began by presenting my own night action, which was - in game terms - to hide/commute myself.

Mine is so insanely suspicious... :laugh4:

I attempted to watch you.

[Snerk]

GeneralHankerchief:
Huge summary post and lots of reads. Seems mostly on the ball. Al vote is null. TOWN
Montmorency:
Dp vote looks pure. TOWN
Choxorn:
Votes Dp when the Al wagon was forming, unscummy IMO. I liked his post lynch summary posts. TOWN
Atheotes:
Don’t like his I’ll be back later with reads. Part of the Montmorency wagon scums tried as a last push for a mislynch. SCUM
Arakhor:
Seems samey as previous town games. Dp made an unbussy Arakhor vote. TOWN
Visor:
Kinda unreadable. Third on Al wagon. TOWN
Csargo:
Pure gut but if scummy then why not bus yesterday since one scum was going down anyway? TOWN
Winston Hughes:
Very untidy reaction to pressure. TOWN/SCUM
Kcaz:
I guess liked his Winston confrontation. TOWN
Sooh
On neither scum wagons. Her beef with Zack looks a little opportunistic. I can see her not wanting to bus. My attempt at learning more about Sooh last night was thwarted. SCUM
Renata:
Not completely giving up my Renata tunneling. Her early Al vote seems unconstructive as scum. But her game opening WAS scummy. She pushed for Arakhor/Winston wagon over the mafia wagons until a scum lynch was inevitable. TOWN/SCUM
Lewwyn:
IMO his early Dp vote is towny due to an Al wagon also forming. TOWN

[Arakhor]

My ability was to watch if someone was visited last night. I'm interested if anyone is going to confirm what I saw.

[Renata]

Mine is so insanely suspicious... :laugh4:

I attempted to watch you.

I guess you're confirming it didn't work?

[GeneralHankerchief]

atheotes wasn't part of the CFD, Snerk. His Monty vote was from earlier.

[Montmorency]

My attempt at learning more about Sooh last night was thwarted.

Go on.

[Renata]

Can't decide whether Snerk refusing to give up his tunnel makes him more or less scummy.

[Montmorency]

I'm going to assume all or most of us were presented with watcher and/or tracker abilities.

[Winston Hughes]

I guess you're confirming it didn't work?

Yup.

Spell just died.

[Renata]

Yup.

Spell just died.

Thumbs up. So why you lampshading scumminess in this choice of yours?

[Al Sipsclar]

Now I can read up at my leisure. GG, town, but you just got lucky.

[Renata]

Dp101 - 6 (Bsmith, Choxorn, Kcaz, Lewwyn, Montmorency, Renata)
Al Sipsclar - 5 (Arakhor, Dp101, GHC, Visor, Winston Hughes)
Montmorency - 2 (Atheotes, Al Sipsclar)
Arakhor - 1 (Csargo)
Kcaz - 1 (Sooh)
Renata -1 (Snerk)


Last night's final vote count above. I guess I'd be surprised if at least one scum besides Al Sips didn't get themselves caught out off of both wagons: that's atheotes, csargo, sooh and snerk. Guess I wouldn't mind seeing a reasoned push on any of them.

[Zack]

I tend to think neither of those was the mafia kill and it was blocked in some way.

[Winston Hughes]

Thumbs up. So why you lampshading scumminess in this choice of yours?

Just my honest reaction to yet another superfail on the night ability front.

[Renata]

Just my honest reaction to yet another superfail on the night ability front.

Where does the scumminess come in?

[Snerk]

atheotes wasn't part of the CFD, Snerk. His Monty vote was from earlier.
Right you are, it's earlier. Page 2 early.

Go on.
Eventually. Can people claim (if only softclaim) nightly activities pls.

Can't decide whether Snerk refusing to give up his tunnel makes him more or less scummy.
Less.

I tend to think neither of those was the mafia kill and it was blocked in some way.
BSmith kill doesn't make sense. If it's a vig pls claim it whoever. Al kill could be a busdriver or something?

[Renata]

Why don't you think Al kill was a straight vig?

[Montmorency]

I tend to think neither of those was the mafia kill and it was blocked in some way.

Or maybe you killed Lou Gehrig.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZoxY3sawE

Anyway, claims so far:

Monty: Commuted
Winston: Failed watch on Monty
Arakhor: Watched someone.
Snerk: Failed action on Sooh.

[Snerk]

Why don't you think Al kill was a straight vig?
No that's perfectly possible too. But it's a remarkably good shot if so. I had Al down as town just due to being the alt scum wagon. Two scum wagons d1 happens, but not very often.

[Winston Hughes]

Where does the scumminess come in?

Monty being the only guaranteed non-verifiable target that I could have claimed.

[Montmorency]

Monty being the only guaranteed non-verifiable target that I could have claimed.

Untrackable, unwatchable - unless someone can scan to the root of the ability used itself.

[Zack]

Haven't read anything yet, but feel this is important information -

I submitted a peek for Winston Hughes last night and discovered that he's not corrupted. Which I take to mean he's almost always a villager, barring some sort of shenanigans.

The way wagons went down and dp/al acted fairly obviously hinted at w/w, but I acted in a way I thought would ensure the highest likelihood of me surviving the night and getting a peek off without being interfered with. Didn't bother peeking Al because there was a super likely chance he was getting resolved anyways.

BSmith would have been a pretty sub-optimal kill choice for wolves. I know for a fact there are ways to interfere with the wolf kill, so it seems more likely that al/bsmith were both killed by villagers and the mafia didn't get a kill through. Either that or they just made a terrible kill.

[Renata]

Monty being the only guaranteed non-verifiable target that I could have claimed.

Realized that a moment after I asked you. Thumbs up on the reason, but not so sure on the self-consciousness involved in thinking about that at all. Was that your immediate thought when Monty claimed hide/commute?

[Zack]

(Though I still stubbornly think that Al's posting pre-flips and pre-wagonomics was ~rand. :beam:)

[Winston Hughes]

Realized that a moment after I asked you. Thumbs up on the reason, but not so sure on the self-consciousness involved in thinking about that at all. Was that your immediate thought when Monty claimed hide/commute?

My immediate thought was that I should have claimed straight away when he said he protected himself.

[Renata]

Haven't read anything yet, but feel this is important information -

I submitted a peek for Winston Hughes last night and discovered that he's not corrupted. Which I take to mean he's almost always a villager, barring some sort of shenanigans.

The way wagons went down and dp/al acted fairly obviously hinted at w/w, but I acted in a way I thought would ensure the highest likelihood of me surviving the night and getting a peek off without being interfered with. Didn't bother peeking Al because there was a super likely chance he was getting resolved anyways.

BSmith would have been a pretty sub-optimal kill choice for wolves. I know for a fact there are ways to interfere with the wolf kill, so it seems more likely that al/bsmith were both killed by villagers and the mafia didn't get a kill through. Either that or they just made a terrible kill.

Two questions:

-- what hinted at w/w for you
-- why choose winston. I would have thought between his vote on Al Sips and that clearing interaction he had with Dp he would have been the type of player you leave for another day. Why not one of the off-wagon people?

[Zack]

Yeah, anyone else want to shade me for switching to Al Sips yesterday?
It's not clearing and I'd always expect Al to be bussed over Dp with the way he was playing. :beam:

[Winston Hughes]

I submitted a peek for Winston Hughes last night and discovered that he's not corrupted. Which I take to mean he's almost always a villager, barring some sort of shenanigans.

What's the good in me spending all this effort looking scummy if you're going to go and reveal something like that?

[Renata]

My immediate thought was that I should have claimed straight away when he said he protected himself.

OK.

[Zack]

Two questions:

-- what hinted at w/w for you
-- why choose winston. I would have thought between his vote on Al Sips and that clearing interaction he had with Dp he would have been the type of player you leave for another day. Why not one of the off-wagon people?
The way they both tried to jump on Monty at the end, DP in particular.

I didn't care about either of those things as far as clearing him and thought his behavior was fairly cringeworthy if a villager.

[Montmorency]

I submitted a peek for Winston Hughes last night and discovered that he's not corrupted. Which I take to mean he's almost always a villager, barring some sort of shenanigans.

So isn't that effectively an alignment scan, something I believe Jabbz said wouldn't be included? Either way, if Winston is GodMaster that should confound any scan.

[Zack]

So isn't that effectively an alignment scan, something I believe Jabbz said wouldn't be included? Either way, if Winston is GodMaster that should confound any scan.

Where did he say that? Also seriously doubt any godfather mechanics based on:


Cults, Jokers, Millers and their ilk, Confused and or paranoid cop/fbi/seer/etc, are all bastard elements in my book. Further I will not tell you things that are false, as that is also a bastard move.

The only way it would be wrong is if someone redirected me, which is certainly a possibility.

[Snerk]

Can confirm a spell that appears to be an alignment scan.

[Zack]

Also, before I realized we could only cast one spell each night, my plan was to horde up all those cheap watcher spells and go crazy. :laugh4:

[Montmorency]

OK, very well. But why is Godfather bastard? Would make perfect sense in a game with investigations flowing like water, and in light of the flavor.

[Zack]

My money's on sooh/atheotes. Visor >rand wolf if he has low wim.

[Zack]

OK, very well. But why is Godfather bastard? Would make perfect sense in a game with investigations flowing like water, and in light of the flavor.

learn 2 read

"I will not tell you things that are false"

[Montmorency]

Speaking of cheap spells, it is technically possible to kill someone without vigging or redirecting a kill: the Tier-1 mana drain spell.

If someone drains all your mana, you die. Max 5 mana drained, but if someone had low mana and used a high-tier skill on the same night as being drained it's possible.

[Montmorency]

learn 2 read

"I will not tell you things that are false"

But that's no more false than being redirected. I don't share this interpretation.

[Winston Hughes]

Also, before I realized we could only cast one spell each night, my plan was to horde up all those cheap watcher spells and go crazy. :laugh4:

I can cast more than one spell.

[Zack]

I can cast more than one spell.

:inquisitive:

[Winston Hughes]

https://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/smilies/pimp.gif (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/WinstonHughes/media/smilies/pimp.gif.html)

[Montmorency]

I can cast more than one spell.

Did you?

[Arakhor]

I can cast more than one spell.

So can I, but only one a night. I am all but guaranteed to die or win (or both!) before I exhaust my spell selection. ~:)

[Winston Hughes]

Did you?

No, just the one last night.

[Winston Hughes]

So can I, but only one a night.

I'm saying that I can cast more than one a night.

[Snerk]

I'm not sure if I can cast more than one spell a night. But spells are definitely a one time use.

[Zack]

I'm saying that I can cast more than one a night.

Compensating for something?

[Winston Hughes]

Compensating for something?

:laugh4:

[Winston Hughes]

It costs me to multicast, and there are certain restrictions.

I think it's safe to assume that at least some of the scum have a similar ability, though it very well differ from mine in the specifics.

[Montmorency]

Try metacasting. Upgrade your spells to the next level.

[Renata]

Or maybe you killed Lou Gehrig.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZoxY3sawE

Anyway, claims so far:

Monty: Commuted
Winston: Failed watch on Monty
Arakhor: Watched someone.
Snerk: Failed action on Sooh.

Just this much sort of makes me want to vote Sooh. I don't see an obvious reason why either Snerk would be interfered with, or Sooh would feel the need to hide (if not scum).

I'll be honest, I hope it's not as simple as it all looks. Games that devolve to solution-by-spreadsheet sort of bore me.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yawn.

Wake me up when you guys are ready to get back to talking about things that matter. :coffeenews:

[Renata]

Nobody's stopping you.

[Snerk]

Yawn.

Wake me up when you guys are ready to get back to talking about things that matter. :coffeenews:

Easily the scummiest post d2.

[Zack]

Yawn.

Wake me up when you guys are ready to get back to talking about things that matter. :coffeenews:

There's no way Renata can balance the budget with her excessive spending and funding of village programs imo.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Easily the scummiest post d2.

What if this kind of thing was firmly in my meta regardless of alignment?

Anyway.

It's now comfortably morning in Australia, and in my experience Visor's WIM can drop pretty significantly as mafia if conditions aren't favorable. Zack agrees with me here:


My money's on sooh/atheotes. Visor >rand wolf if he has low wim.

So I'm not entirely certain on why Visor isn't in his team here.

[Visor]

Anyone who doubted my ability to scum read off of one post can now kindly suck my, erm, popsicle. I guess that'll do. Popsicles are good.

Honestly, it was probably sheer luck.

Anyway, all my assumptions need re-doing because I had Al Sips firmly back in the nulls after his reappearance and I wasn't particularly expecting the wagons to be w/w after all.

Why not?

His behaviour wrt DP was typical wolf behaviour as both me and Choxorn pointed out.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Aaaaaaaand there goes half of my last post.

[Visor]

What if this kind of thing was firmly in my meta regardless of alignment?

Anyway.

It's now comfortably morning in Australia, and in my experience Visor's WIM can drop pretty significantly as mafia if conditions aren't favorable. Zack agrees with me here:



So I'm not entirely certain on why Visor isn't in his team here.

'Comfortably morning'. lol.

Its been day for 3 hours and its only 9am. I don't even post on pog before 9am.

I can link you to two recent games, one where I nearly got lynched D1 and had to be Cfded awy from after I claimed and one where I did get lynched D1, both town, both low WIM.

I get far more enjoyment playing at my own pace. That's all I'm going to talk about wrt that.

I also have a number of wolf games I can quote of my WIM improving if conditions aren't favourable so thats not true either.

Again, not interested in defending myself from meta arguments, especially when they're not true. Feel free to talk about my posts in the game.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, let's talk about actual game stuff then.

Who are your top and bottom 3, Visor?

[Renata]

Why not?

His behaviour wrt DP was typical wolf behaviour as both me and Choxorn pointed out.

I'll check this out later; I don't remember anyone making overt w/w arguments. All I remember is Zack arguing that it wasn't.

[Arakhor]

Someone explain WIM please. This is like crossing the Atlantic without ever being exposed to US English before.

[Visor]

Wolf/wolf wagons is both nice and terrible at the same time.

Almost certainly some bussing going on, which is going to be fun to determine.

Also kind of nice that BSmith flipped as that takes away the initial WIFOM vote placement of Al Sips.

I might take a look this evening at the circumstances around each vote and see how I feel about them.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Someone explain WIM please. This is like crossing the Atlantic without ever being exposed to US English before.

Wants It More. Basically overall effort.

[Visor]

I'll check this out later; I don't remember anyone making overt w/w arguments. All I remember is Zack arguing that it wasn't.


Nice job on DP.



Having not read anything prior to the flip, I'm just guessing, but he's probably a wolf who didn't want to vote another wolf. That might be wanting more than guessing though.


Yeah, that was what I was thinking, and he switched to Monty right before dp did, and his reasons for voting Monty were kind of odd, like he was trying as hard as he could to avoid voting dp without actually addressing the wagon on dp. He never actually mentioned dp once during the day, despite the fact that Al and DP were the two leading wagons at EoD.

It just sounds like what two scumbuddies would do if they were getting wagoned and wanted to try to shift the momentum onto someone else and hope they could get a townie lynched.

.

Arakhor, WIM is want it more, basically high volume, high interactions, kind of thing.

[Arakhor]

Thanks.

[Visor]

I'll check this out later; I don't remember anyone making overt w/w arguments. All I remember is Zack arguing that it wasn't.


Nice job on DP.



Having not read anything prior to the flip, I'm just guessing, but he's probably a wolf who didn't want to vote another wolf. That might be wanting more than guessing though.


Okay, let's talk about actual game stuff then.

Who are your top and bottom 3, Visor?

As wolfy as it sounds I don't really have a bottom three. I found it kind of hard to pick a lot of people as particularly townie or wolfy D1 and I'd be throwing this list out anyway given w/w wagons.

Choxorn is still highly villagery for me, regardless. I still don't think Atheotes is as wolfy as people say, I don't understand why he is getting so much attention.

For a third, Csargo. Seems weird, but I liked his comments through the night phase.

[Visor]

Sigh, multiquotes.

Might be worth looking at the offwagon voters too, as it is a reasonable chance they are town simply because wolves don't want to be off w/w wagons due to image.

Also probably looks good for the early starters of both wagon, but I worth a look through the progression again.

[Visor]

I wish I drank coffee. lol.

[Zack]

I think ___(player)____ is a wolf because ___(half-baked meta read)___

(visor), (struggling to make reads here, when in a past game he berated and pushed me for not having a strong opinion on someone 100 posts into d1)

[Visor]

Dp101 - 6 (Bsmith, Choxorn, Kcaz, Lewwyn, Montmorency, Renata)
Al Sipsclar - 5 (Arakhor, Dp101, GHC, Visor, Winston Hughes)
Montmorency - 2 (Atheotes, Al Sipsclar)
Arakhor - 1 (Csargo)
Kcaz - 1 (Sooh)
Renata -1 (Snerk)

That's where we stand. Bussing is more likely at the end of the wagon rather than the start for obvious reasons, though that vote count isn't written in order of vote, sadly.

Atheotes and Al voting together is (IMO) a good look for Atheotes, though I am fairly likely to be biased as I already think he's a villager.

Kinda yolo, but gonna consider the offwagoners off the table for today, so Atheotes, Csargo, Sooh and Snerk are all villagers for this chapter.

So:

BSmith

Visor
Choxorn
Atheotes
Csargo
Sooh
Snerk


Zack
Lewwyn
Monty
Renata
Arakhor
GH
Winston

Time to go digging.

[Renata]

Your reasoning for leaving out the off-wagon voters kinda sucks. Just for one reason, not all of them were present at EoD.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Might be worth looking at the offwagon voters too, as it is a reasonable chance they are town simply because wolves don't want to be off w/w wagons due to image.

Agree with this.

Before Al Sips flipped, I was of the opinion that Dp was not saved and thought that pointed more to offwagon voters/folks who weren't around EoD than any possible bussing. Not sure where that stands after Al's resolution. Maybe the people who looked uncomfortable at EoD yesterday.

[Csargo]

Well Al flipping corrupted changes a lot. I feel less certain of my previous assertions...

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[GeneralHankerchief]

Agree with this.

Before Al Sips flipped, I was of the opinion that Dp was not saved and thought that pointed more to offwagon voters/folks who weren't around EoD than any possible bussing. Not sure where that stands after Al's resolution. Maybe the people who looked uncomfortable at EoD yesterday.

Wait, misread that Visor quote, I'd disagree with it.

[Zack]

so the fact that i've peeked winston as not-scum doesn't factor at all into your reads?

[Visor]

vote: Al sipsclar


Shall we test this straight away?

Al Sipsclar


Argh.

vote: Al Sipsclar

I can't decide right now if you (Winston) are a you problem or a me problem. I do believe that Al Sipsclar promise to catch up on a thread that at that point doesn't need catching up on (it was like 20 posts deep if that), followed by nothing, is >rand scum.


Renata, I really, really disagree with your continued pushing of winston. It looks exactly like mafia pushing a slightly odd townie, and I would have expected that town!you would have found something else by now.


I agree you about disliking DP's vote. I also think though that it could also be as scum defending someone who is town and buddying up. It ties into DP's decision that Winston is obvtown, which again I don't think is obvious. In either case, I find his reactions to be suspicious too.

DP101


I didn't know there was a lynchproof spell, it wasn't among my options.



I don't like this post at all, it sounds like what a scum would say if they wanted to defend a scumbuddy and go after the one attacking them. What do you mean, would have found something else by now? It's been a few pages, and it's still day 1, there's not much to go on.

Vote: Dp101



Well, only for one hand, he can still get more for his other hand, can't he (oh dear god, please no)

Wish you could quote more than whatever stupid amount this is.

Quoted a DP interaction here that is pretty good with obvious caveat that they decided to bus hard immediately D1.

Renata/Choxorn come away looking good here. Possible that Lewwyn is overexplaining his vote on DP here.

Winston's post on Al just noting for now.

[Visor]

Your reasoning for leaving out the off-wagon voters kinda sucks. Just for one reason, not all of them were present at EoD.

Sure. But its not like both the Dp and Al wagons were EoD constructions?

[Visor]

so the fact that i've peeked winston as not-scum doesn't factor at all into your reads?

Didn't see it.

I'll make a note of it anyway.

[Visor]

Let's make some wild assumptions.


Visor
Choxorn
Atheotes
Csargo
Sooh
Snerk
Renata
Zack
Winston

Monty
Arakhor
GH
Lewwyn

Its a bottom four, GH, but it looks okay to me.

[Zack]

you think dp tried to cfd onto another teammate when the wagons were already w/w?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Let's make some wild assumptions.


Visor
Choxorn
Atheotes
Csargo
Sooh
Snerk
Renata
Zack
Winston

Monty
Arakhor
GH
Lewwyn

Its a bottom four, GH, but it looks okay to me.

Why Monty?

Also, why me, but mostly why Monty?

[Visor]

you think dp tried to cfd onto another teammate when the wagons were already w/w?
Obvious answer here is he is trying to spew his bro villager.

That said, the list comes from the below.

Why Monty?

Also, why me, but mostly why Monty?

Its not so much an issue of why Monty, more that I find other people more villagery than him. (and I have made a number of assumptions wrt Zack/Winston/offwagon voters)

[Montmorency]

Let's make some wild assumptions.


Visor
Choxorn
Atheotes
Csargo
Sooh
Snerk
Renata
Zack
Winston

Monty
Arakhor
GH
Lewwyn

Its a bottom four, GH, but it looks okay to me.

Lol, I've disagreed with most of your input today. Lewwyn and Arakhor at least should be near the top, certainly above the off-wagoners.

[Visor]

Indulging on the actions of a wolf who is a major wagon at EOD seems to be an exercise in WIFOM. There are other things to look at.

[Visor]

Lol, I've disagreed with most of your input today. Lewwyn and Arakhor at least should be near the top, certainly above the off-wagoners.

Why?

[Montmorency]

Why?

Why are the off-wagoners some of the towniest players in your opinion, and in a block at that?

Arakhor and Lewwyn advanced proven pro-town arguments. Lewwyn was in fact first or near-first to confront DP101.

[Visor]

Why are the off-wagoners some of the towniest players in your opinion, and in a block at that?

Arakhor and Lewwyn advanced proven pro-town arguments. Lewwyn was in fact first or near-first to confront DP101.

I said it earlier.

"Might be worth looking at the offwagon voters too, as it is a reasonable chance they are town simply because wolves don't want to be off w/w wagons due to image."

The argument that they weren't around for EoD doesn't hold water either because Al and DP were wagons for most of the day.

I know the stereotypical approach is WOLVES MUST BE OFFWAGON or OFFWAGONERS MUST BE SCUM

but I don't think it makes much sense in this case. Its a starting point, anyway.

[Visor]

If you disagree with any of those reads, tell me why [x] offwagoner is wolfy?

I said earlier that I found Atheotes and Csargo villagery for reasons not relating to their wagon positioning.

[Montmorency]

I said it earlier.

"Might be worth looking at the offwagon voters too, as it is a reasonable chance they are town simply because wolves don't want to be off w/w wagons due to image."

The argument that they weren't around for EoD doesn't hold water either because Al and DP were wagons for most of the day.

I know the stereotypical approach is WOLVES MUST BE OFFWAGON or OFFWAGONERS MUST BE SCUM

but I don't think it makes much sense in this case. Its a starting point, anyway.

So the correct approach is to start assuming towniness? Csargo, Snerk and Sooh are townier than Renata, Zack, and Winston?

If you mention that the wagons were standing for much of the day, then Renata and Arakhor should clearly move up.

[Montmorency]

If you disagree with any of those reads, tell me why [x] offwagoner is wolfy?

I said earlier that I found Atheotes and Csargo villagery for reasons not relating to their wagon positioning.

I spoke on atheotes as well. Csargo and Snerk are still null. Sooh is moving down for her low-profile contribution today.

[Visor]

So the correct approach is to start assuming towniness? Csargo, Snerk and Sooh are townier than Renata, Zack, and Winston?

If you mention that the wagons were standing for much of the day, then Renata and Arakhor should clearly move up.

The list isn't exactly ordered.

What was so villagery about Arakhor's vote?

Let me order the list for you.

Visor
Choxorn - pure explained a number of times
Atheotes - explained before
Renata - see above/interactions/voted both wolves, etc.
Zack - claimed a peek on Winston
Winston - claimed to be peeked
Csargo - offwagon plus liked night posts
Sooh - offwagon
Snerk - offwagon

What's left (mostly unsorted)
Monty - shrug
Arakhor - shrug? In two minds on his vote on Al Sips, 1, gives little credit if bussing, 2 decent way to bus without looking like bussing. lol.
GH - hardcore tunneling of atheotes
Lewwyn - possible overexplanation of DP vote

The Offwagon thing is an assumption on my part. If you think either sooh or snerk (the weakest offwagoners imo) have been explicitly wolfy then show it to me.

[Visor]

I spoke on atheotes as well. Csargo and Snerk are still null. Sooh is moving down for her low-profile contribution today.

It has only been day for 4 hours... lol.

[Montmorency]

GH - hardcore tunneling of atheotes
Lewwyn - possible overexplanation of DP vote

:inquisitive: and no.

Leaving aside Sooh's D1 chewing on Zack over the GH vote and change:


Well, there's trying, and then there's TRYING!!!!!

During the night: GH looks bad for EOD pending Al's flip. Doubt there were many scums bussing D1, maybe one or two at most. Might be that some weren't here for EOD who bussed earlier in the day when it looked safe, and some felt they couldn't jump off because it would seem strange. One thing I will admit is that this I was mistaken in thinking this post was by Sooh:


Woo just what I wanted to be, middle of the road. Sweet.

Sooh today: Renata made it impossible for DP to live, GH's seemed to be genuinely trying to tie DP and Al, but thinking about it too much leads to WIFOM. Pantomimes throwing shade on GH while calling his vote-switch a good move.

Given Winston and Zack moving up, she is more than suitable to fill their slot.

For you, at least, the argument that there was no more bussing D1 can't sit with your town-reading the off-wagoners.

[Zack]

why would i not be townread even without peekaments anyways

[Renata]

I want to lynch Visor even more after that exercise in non-analysis.

Unforunately I am feeling too sick right now to push anything.

[Renata]

GH, if you're town here, listen to me: it sounds like Beck in copless.

[Montmorency]

GH, if you're town here, listen to me: it sounds like Beck in copless.

I looked up "Beck in copless" and this (https://www.amazon.com/Love-Never-Enough-Misunderstandings-Relationship/dp/0060916044) is what I got.

[GeneralHankerchief]

GH, if you're town here, listen to me: it sounds like Beck in copless.

Wow, I didn't think that would be as triggering as it was.

I'll try to take a look before I go to sleep tonight.