View Full Version : Small Mafia Game Swords and Sorcery Mafia Without the Swords [Concluded]
The start of d2 when he picked out a wagon arbitrarily and said thats where he's looking for scum. Visor arbitrarily cutting off consideration of off-wagon players. Both substituting this mechanical quasi analysis for a normal organic approach to the game, who's scummy and who's not.
Morning.
Visor this is a pretty ridiculous analysis. I think leaving the off-wagon people to the side is just mind-boggling, but could be acceptable if you were just do analytics, but then to suggest that those offwagons should not be considered for lynch today or that they are inherently more villagery is just so... bad.
Additionally be cause you seem to be singling my vote on DP out, I wonder did you even bother to look at all the posts and interactions leading up to my DP vote or were you just trying to cherry pick and misconstrue the vote itself to smear me? I can't say I'm surprised given Sooh's comment during the night:
Like I said, two at most. Might be that some weren't here for EOD who bussed earlier in the day when it looked safe, and some felt they couldn't jump off because it would seem strange.
That feels directed at Choxorn and myself given that we were the ones who voted for DP early. Feels like a discrediting setup. And lo here comes Visor clumsily along.
I'll also throw my hat into the "what did you do last night?" ring.
Redirected all spells cast at Choxorn to Sooh.
I'm a little puzzled why any villager would want their n1 action to be redirecting something, honestly.
I guess could redirect a kill onto a wolf or something, but meh. I'd always go for something investigative or a vig.
I'm a little puzzled why any villager would want their n1 action to be redirecting something, honestly.
I can't kill Sooh. I don't have a doctor spell. I think Choxorn might be targetted. I threw an attempt at redirecting a night kill towards someone I was suspicious of.
I guess could redirect a kill onto a wolf or something, but meh. I'd always go for something investigative or a vig.
Would have liked to try a vig :D
I still don't get why atheotes, csargo, or offwagon people are more clear than GH, Monty, Arakhor, Lewwyn.
Do what you have to in order to protect your teammates, I guess. :shrug:
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 04:47
GH, if you're town here, listen to me: it sounds like Beck in copless.
Thought about it, reread Visor's recent flurry, thought about it some more.
Somewhat disagree on your comparison and I'm really hoping you weren't just using it to get my attention (because you 100% knew it would).
Like, Beck's big thing in Copless was volume, especially at Lylo he was harping on about how posting that much in f5 wasn't in his scumrange, and that's obviously not Visor in this situation. He just flung a bunch of crap at the wall, saw what stuck, and manipulated things to fit his agenda. I'm not seeing much of that from Visor, he at least has been displaying a pretty clear philosophy here.
However, I am seeing flawed logic in Visor's arguments, plus stuff I just flat-out disagree with. The below post is the most questionable:
The list isn't exactly ordered.
What was so villagery about Arakhor's vote?
Let me order the list for you.
Visor
Choxorn - pure explained a number of times
Atheotes - explained before
Renata - see above/interactions/voted both wolves, etc.
Zack - claimed a peek on Winston
Winston - claimed to be peeked
Csargo - offwagon plus liked night posts
Sooh - offwagon
Snerk - offwagon
What's left (mostly unsorted)
Monty - shrug
Arakhor - shrug? In two minds on his vote on Al Sips, 1, gives little credit if bussing, 2 decent way to bus without looking like bussing. lol.
GH - hardcore tunneling of atheotes
Lewwyn - possible overexplanation of DP vote
The Offwagon thing is an assumption on my part. If you think either sooh or snerk (the weakest offwagoners imo) have been explicitly wolfy then show it to me.
Firstly, atheotes. Visor's ascribed a lot of credit to atheotes for being on the Monty wagon with (flipped scum) Al, saying it's a good look for him for reasons. First of all, as I already mentioned to Snerk, atheotes's vote for Monty the previous phase was laid very early on in the day and he never got around to changing it. If the mafia are trying to manufacture a CFD in the heat of the moment, I'm not 100% certain they're that picky over the target - especially considering two of them were under fire. Furthermore, this reasoning alone seems shallow to ascribe a top three townread to.
The offwagon thing I can take or leave, it's whatever at this point.
Secondly, me. I think Visor's explanation of my "hardcore tunneling of atheotes" is a gross misrepresentation of my D1 activities. I was certainly on the guy, because he was one of my top scumreads, and tried to push a wagon on him, but I was flexible enough, posting my thoughts on everybody else throughout the day, and ended up voting for (at least) two separate mafiosi by the end. Furthermore, Visor knows that when I smell blood, I don't let go - he was in the MU wildcard game with me last year when I latched onto Royal Ape early on D1, stayed on him the entire day, and helped get him lynched (and he flipped mafia) - and Visor even praised me for it more than once over the course of the game.
So I'm not sure that I buy that Visor actually believes what he's selling here.
Montmorency
02-08-2017, 05:04
He just flung a bunch of crap at the wall, saw what stuck, and manipulated things to fit his agenda.
What's the difference between this Beck and Pizza?
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 05:06
What's the difference between this Beck and Pizza?
Fewer walls from Beck.
It's not clearing and I'd always expect Al to be bussed over Dp with the way he was playing. :beam:
Agreed, especially considering Dp voted Al and Al didn't vote Dp. They very clearly preferred Al's lynch to Dp's lynch.
The way they both tried to jump on Monty at the end, DP in particular.
I didn't care about either of those things as far as clearing him and thought his behavior was fairly cringeworthy if a villager.
Like I said last night, I also thought it was weird that Al not only didn't self-pres, he completely avoided even mentioning Dp when Al and Dp were the leading wagons, which is just really bizarre behavior that seems really not townie. I didn't actually notice it at first, but on re-read, it really jumped out to me.
Well Al flipping corrupted changes a lot. I feel less certain of my previous assertions...
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Such insight. Very solving. Truly, we need more posts of this level of quality if we are ever to catch the remaining corrupted.
I'll also throw my hat into the "what did you do last night?" ring.
Redirected all spells cast at Choxorn to Sooh.
Interesting. Did anyone target either me or Sooh last night?
I don't know what to say really...
Montmorency
02-08-2017, 06:20
Tinfoil on Visor's weirdness:
Visor is Mafia. Having suffered a catastrophic D1, his faction has decided that Visor will fall on the sword of the Godfather GH/Zack and clear him through the flip.
To buy more time, the plan should only come to fruition on D3 or 4. Manufactured "role action" will be invoked to explain the Godfather's survival as clear town to LYLO, at which point he will activate his Lynchproof and sail through to victory.
Tinfoil on Visor's weirdness:
Visor is Mafia. Having suffered a catastrophic D1, his faction has decided that Visor will fall on the sword of the Godfather GH/Zack and clear him through the flip.
To buy more time, the plan should only come to fruition on D3 or 4. Manufactured "role action" will be invoked to explain the Godfather's survival as clear town to LYLO, at which point he will activate his Lynchproof and sail through to victory.
Doesn't sound that tinfoil-y to me.
It's a little tinfoily, though I don't disagree that Visor looks scummy as hell right now and I could see Godfather GH/Zack pulling something crazy like that if they were the last scum. It just seems more likely that the 4th scum is in the off-wagon pile he refused to even consider, someone like Atheotes or Sooh.
Clearly my opinions aren't shared by the majority. :laugh4:
Lewwyn
With 20 mins to go in Day 1, Zack (followed) by Al started a rush on Montmorency, which Dp immediately switched to, making Monty an almost-viable lynch candidate. Mere minutes later, Zack switched to Dp, followed by GH. Then we had Al's weird attempt to suggest I was biased against him, followed by Renata's late vote on Dp and GH's down-to-the-wire vote on Al. If scum-Zack was attempting to save Dp, switching back to him after an insufficient end-vote rush is not the right way to go about it.
As I noted with Renata much earlier, it seems odd to state that someone is scummy for doing much the same thing that you are doing currently. In this case, it's Visor proclaiming GH to be scummy for tunnelling Atheotes, whilst also considering Atheotes to be villagery for "earlier reasons".
Besides which, isn't it a bit odd to accuse someone of tunnelling in Day Two? As I understand it, tunnelling is when a player becomes convinced by their own arguments by virtue of how long or how strong they hold them (according to Mafiascum.net). I wouldn't have thought that anyone would be set in their views over the random progress of D1.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 12:16
My reads as of EOD d1.
Winston - i always find the "would i do it as scum?" defense very scummy. so Winston is on the scum pile. did not like his throw shade on Chox and disappear trick. i dont like #482 and other posts focusing on Zack/Al sips voting Monty within a minute of each other.
Zack - looks like town. props for calling out Winston on the shade.
Lewwyn - town. Mindmeld.
Choxorn - town. Dp vote seems natural
Arakhor - town lean for now. sort of have a vague memory of him playing this way as town and me thinking he was scummy.
GH - started leaning town. But his call to CFD on Arakhor and more votes on me are tilting the scale. Then he calls the Dp wagon pure with his vote on it. all this combined with his late vote to tie it up seem like he was trying to save his scum bro.
Renata - town. a little stunted start but still cant help herself when she is town. :-p
Visor - Dont think he commented on the Dp/Zack discussion. Need to recheck. if he has not commented then he is a scum lean.
BSmith - liked his post. town lean for now.
Al sips - one post and out is pretty normal for Al. Dp self pressing onto him is good for Al. Need more though.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 12:18
i took time to type up those reads. So you guys get to see it even if it is not up to date or even relevant. :laugh4:
BSmith - liked his post. town lean for now.
Given that BSmith is a deceased townie, that's incisive intuition there. ~;)
atheotes
02-08-2017, 12:33
I was talking about 497.
Discussing about wagons and such now just makes such a hassle, because you have to go back and find the actual posts and time stamps in order to get the order of votes on a person. But I guess we just have to live with it.
I doubt there were many scums bussing D1. I'd say one, maybe two at most. (on DP I mean)
Interesting that you felt the need to clarify that you meant Dp.
Vote: Sooh
atheotes
02-08-2017, 12:36
Nice job on DP.
Having not read anything prior to the flip, I'm just guessing, but he's probably a wolf who didn't want to vote another wolf. That might be wanting more than guessing though.
this post also pings me. may be because of the qualifiers included. :inquisitive:
atheotes
02-08-2017, 12:37
Given that BSmith is a deceased townie, that's incisive intuition there. ~;)
This was done during the night phase. so i will take it as a compliment. ~D
atheotes
02-08-2017, 12:48
The one hole I can poke in the "Dp/Al Sipsclar both scum" theory is that Dp's exact role name is "corrupted mage", which appears to be your regular garden-variety mafioso as per the OP. If there are power levels amongst the scum team or something along those lines, it's unlikely that Dp would have pushed Al Sips as hard as he did if Al was more useful to the scum team ability-wise.
Of course, if this isn't the case, or if they were both regular corrupted mages, then the above paragraph obviously no longer applies.
more deflection from GH? devil's advocate or trying to steer attention away from scum bros? hmm...
I am caught up until EOD. Will post my reads during the day.
i took time to type up those reads. So you guys get to see it even if it is not up to date or even relevant. :laugh4:
OK but if your reads were already typed out, why delay them to the day? Why so confident you were going to survive the night?
This was done during the night phase. so i will take it as a compliment. ~D
That is a good call indeed, specially considering that BSmith was acting kinda scummy.
I stand by my leans from earlier. With Winston getting a boost and Visor taking a dip.
Sooh or Atheotes. Alternatively Visor or Renata.
vote: Sooh
I want to know why my scan of Sooh failed.
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 12:58
Is anyone townreading Visor right now?
He's certainly acting oddly.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 13:27
That's interesting. I've never seen two scum die in just two phases before. Maybe there is some sort of vigilante spell going around or maybe someone linked Al unawares to the health of BSmith and the scum inadvertently killed one of their own.
though we cannot be sure at this point, the method of both the night kills seem to indicate that they were vigs.
Renata might have done the smart thing and used some kind of self protection or a redirector onto someone who was protected.
OK I'm still sick but not feeling as godawful as last night. So yay.
Re: Zack tinfoil -- this is the terrible thing about Zack; I could totally believe it. No smooth talkers allowed in LYLO this game, lol.
Re: Csargo -- really sliding down my list today for tone/contribution reasons. Stop it.
Re: atheotes -- including dead players on his reads list bugs the crap out of me. Regarding my abandoned attempt to stunt my town game, I'm trying again next time, see if I don't.
though we cannot be sure at this point, the method of both the night kills seem to indicate that they were vigs.
Renata might have done the smart thing and used some kind of self protection or a redirector onto someone who was protected.
I'm willing to say I did neither of those things.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 13:30
So it does seem scum targeted BSmith for nightkill - but why?
He had only 5 posts, fewest of all players, posted in one half-hour stretch.
Post 1, he votes for Al Sipsclar, unvotes, votes DP101. Singles out Zack slightly in the Zack-Winston-Renata confrontation.
The rest of his posts were just responses to Renata's questions. Was this really enough?
What makes you think BSmith was the scum kill? i mean, other than the obvious lack of any other townie death.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 13:33
I'm playing with the idea that both BSmith and Al Sips were vig kills and the mafia hit a protection. (Or multiple protections, if they took multiple shots.) If they did kill him, maybe it was out of fear of how cheap all thsoe various means of protection and self-protection are, and they just wanted to ensure they hit somebody?
Even if Zack's scum, which I can see now more than last night, I doubt that tiny bit of shade that BSmith cast would be a decision-maker for them.
This is more in line with my thinking except for the last part bcos i think Zack is town.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 13:38
Atheotes-Visor is an interesting parallelism. I don't think they could both be scum, so might as well pressure both at once.
Atheotes has been more assertive in his town game lately, but in this game - he just isn't responding to the content throughout the day.
Mostly irrelevant banter or humor, from his few posts.
At start of day, he accused me of being scum and voted me on the basis of a gif I posted. Town atheotes would not do that. He would either seriously take that as evidence and make a case against me, or he wouldn't vote me at all.
Lol. As i said, i was tied up. My vote on you was nothing more than a joke vote.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 13:56
OK but if your reads were already typed out, why delay them to the day? Why so confident you were going to survive the night?
That is a good call indeed, specially considering that BSmith was acting kinda scummy.
I stand by my leans from earlier. With Winston getting a boost and Visor taking a dip.
Sooh or Atheotes. Alternatively Visor or Renata.
vote: Sooh
I want to know why my scan of Sooh failed.
i am lynch bait. Already people had suspicions abt me. so i was never going to be targeted by scum. Vig was still possible. But i thought Al would be the higher priority.
Did not expect 2 vig kills tbh.
I thought my reads list was more likely to consolidate top town reads. so i decided not to post them at night.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 13:59
I'm willing to say I did neither of those things.
Perhaps someone was looking out for you. I cant think of any other reason for Al sips to visit you.
Perhaps someone was looking out for you. I cant think of any other reason for Al sips to visit you.
If someone was protecting me then you should have seen them too. You've put this reveal in a weird way.
Oh never mind. Are you claiming a track?
Easiest fake claim in the world for scum, but OK. Glad my gamble paid off.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 14:22
If someone was protecting me then you should have seen them too. You've put this reveal in a weird way.
no. i said some was looking out for you...like a redirection. it is also possible you did whatever Monty did.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 14:22
Oh never mind. Are you claiming a track?
no. Watch.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 14:23
Easiest fake claim in the world for scum, but OK. Glad my gamble paid off.
:inquisitive:
If you're claiming a watch, you should see whoever targeted me. Assuming Al Sips was there to kill me, you should have seen someone else I think. Whoever the redirector was, if it was that I'd think, and then you would NOT see Al Sips. If it was a straight-up protection you should have seen the protector. This doesn't make sense.
I can think of one scenario where it maybe works, but it seems farfetched.
Um, why would i play any of this in the way i have as a godfather? Godfather doesn't bus or claim peeks lol.
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 15:33
I'm wondering if it's simply that easy and Visor/atheotes are our last two.
But see, this is me tunneling so I'm going to look elsewhere. Probably Snerk and/or Arakhor.
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 15:36
Why not Sooh?
I have less of a baseline on Snerk/Arakhor to work with and I want to start correcting that. Plus, Sooh's giving us less atm than the other two.
I'm wondering if it's simply that easy and Visor/atheotes are our last two.
But see, this is me tunneling so I'm going to look elsewhere. Probably Snerk and/or Arakhor.
Why are you reading atheotes scum? I liked his posts today.
I don't entirely buy that he saw Al Sips visit me and nobody else.
Is anyone townreading Visor right now?
Is this not exactly how Visor plays as town? He seems normal to me. I thought his argument was interesting at least...
Also, Montmorency I Detected Corruption on someone and they were not corrupted, so unless I got redirected or some other nonsense it should be correct. I'm not gonna say who for obvious reasons unless you guys come after me with the pitchforks...
Such insight. Very solving. Truly, we need more posts of this level of quality if we are ever to catch the remaining corrupted.
I'm not sure why you're highlighting my post in passing. Sure it wasn't extremely detailed, but it's not as though I could be. I meant that since both wagons were corrupted, then I think it's likely that corrupted are likely in one of them. So looking at the votes and making judgments based on them is wifom type deal.
This isn't how Visor played town the one and only time I played with him.
I can't follow your action claim. How can you detect corruption on someone then say they're not corrupted? Someone dead -- BSmith? Or are you claiming someone else?
Need Monty in here with his big old chart of claims.
This isn't how Visor played town the one and only time I played with him.
I can't follow your action claim. How can you detect corruption on someone then say they're not corrupted? Someone dead -- BSmith? Or are you claiming someone else?
I think that's the spell name.
I don't entirely buy that he saw Al Sips visit me and nobody else.
Fair.
This isn't how Visor played town the one and only time I played with him.
I can't follow your action claim. How can you detect corruption on someone then say they're not corrupted? Someone dead -- BSmith? Or are you claiming someone else?
It's the name of the spell, like Lewwyn said. I didn't use it on BSmith no.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 16:19
If you're claiming a watch, you should see whoever targeted me. Assuming Al Sips was there to kill me, you should have seen someone else I think. Whoever the redirector was, if it was that I'd think, and then you would NOT see Al Sips. If it was a straight-up protection you should have seen the protector. This doesn't make sense.
I can think of one scenario where it maybe works, but it seems farfetched.
Hmm...i targeted and Al Sips had visited. that is all i know. I am not sure if i would see the redirector if that was used. What did you do?
I am assuming that the scum can use powers in addition to Factional kill. i think someone mentioned a Mana drain. Any effect on your mana? were you Roleblocked?
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 16:25
Arakhor - 60 posts so far. This will exclude the socialization stuff.
Csargo is one of the names I don't recognise, so clearly we must deal with suspicious strangers first!
First post is a vote against Csargo. Clearly RVS. Tiniest of "not likely scum together" but not even worth talking about.
Given that Visor often does really silly things as town, I might be inclined to agree, but I'm not seeing the other throwaway comments about people's innocence or lack thereof.
Renata also looks like she's going to be purified first.
This post is a response to atheotes calling Visor town. Here we start to see the hedge, though this is Arakhor's M.O. Could be interpreted as a slight disagreement with the mutual Visor/atheotes townread, not enough info on their flips yet to make a ruling about associatives. Commentary on Renata but not an opinion about her.
Atheotes is typically a lurker of a lot of the time and Visor often does weird things, but that mutual town read on the slenderest of meetings does seem rather odd.
Isn't OMGUS wonderful? ~;p
More of the same, an easy interaction with Csargo plus a further questioning of Visor/atheotes. Don't think they'd do this much distancing at this early stage of the game.
Unless there's shenanigans already, I'm voting for Csargo, not Montmorency (hence Csargo's OMGUS vote and our responses to said vote).
GH, as where my head's at, it's finding another 80 posts in six hours, so a little behind the times is where I am!
Please don't confuse my ignorance for hedging. They may look similar, but I'm fairly slow to form conclusions in these games (wrong ones, usually, but still).
Six hour gap between the last post and this one, in which I called Arakhor out for hedging. He has a fairly reasonable-sounding defense for this. Continues to be voting for Csargo.
Post #19 is the one in question, made almost 24 hours ago. It also seems to have been his only one so far.
This is in reference to Al Sipsclar's one early vote. Doesn't appear to take an opinion on it.
I remember in Masque of Death Winston was fairly windy throughout the game, but was also innocent. A quiet Winston who's not also absent would be somewhat weird to me.
I'd consider voting for Al too, based on the strength of his single post, but Day One seems rather too early for a policy lynch. It just seems too scummy, as it were.
As for Visor/Atheotes, Visor frequently changes his mind and chats up the thread a lot, but often he's on to something at the same time.
Okay here we go. He appears to be defending Winston (who looks good now), drops the "too scummy" defense on Al (does a scumbuddy resort to this halfway through D1?), and appears to be shading Visor a bit.
There's only six hours to go or so and Al still hasn't posted more than once, which is a much better reason to give him my vote than my early random-vote. Vote: Al Sipsclar.
(Apologies for the edit above - I was trying to respond to Visor's ninja-post, but too slowly it seems.)
Votes Al Sipsclar and telegraphs his reasoning for doing so. Bit awkward, could be seen as him giving up on Al reappearing/potential distancing.
I already posted most of my views so far in #239.
Other than those, Montmorency's role-fishing is clearly suspect and not just because it's anti-fun. I'm not sure what to make of the idea that at least one person had a lynch spell available - I can't decide whether that's more likely to be villagery or not.
This was in response to Visor asking him about Al Sips.
I meant that I don't form the same impression of other people's guilt or innocence as quickly as everyone else seems to do. I'm more inclined to believe that Visor is town at the moment, given that his current behaviour matches other times I've known him to be town.
You quoted the very post where I said that a policy vote was better than a random vote and then say you don't know why I did that??
If you don't know that I am known for sesquippedalian loquaciousness by now, regardless of my status, then we really have not played together in FAR too long. As I've already said before, my rambling is in part due to my indecisiveness.
These last three posts were in reponse to a case/vote from Renata as per his previous hedginess. I do think I like the tone here.
Just that. I always wonder whether all those posts about 'knowing' someone's innocence is just grandstanding, because I've never been able to discern that for myself.
I wasn't wrong, but would you prefer I stayed with my random vote? Besides, people who only show up once a day to make a single post and then leave really irritate me, so I'd wouldn't miss anyone who did that in a game.
Afterthought - if scum-Arakhor's vote on Al is the fourth vote on him and he's going to get purified either way, wouldn't it be more obvious to bus him than not?
Continuing the argument above, click on the posts themselves for context. I do like him standing his ground here.
Well, apart from the fact that trying to prompt a full role-reveal on Day One (you know, before anything has happened) is just disrespectful to the designer's work, it was the inept way he went about it. Vigilantes shouldn't reveal, thereby suggesting that those who don't reveal have vig powers, but doctors, role-blockers and other town power roles should reveal, because of course the scum will be nice enough not to take advantage of that.
In summary: it's un-fun, inept and counter-productive either way, but it's not necessarily scummy, no.
I questioned him about his earlier read on Monty, he responds.
It's nice how I'm suddenly the bad guy for voting for Al in lieu of anything better to do, but Renata, who voted for me because I did that, still wants Al dead purified.
I don't woffle for fear of being pinned down, but because I woffle naturally. My D1 play is always unfocused.
Like you are on me, DP? :shrug:
This is a bit of a back-and-forth with DP and I think this is probably the sequence of posts that looks best for Arakhor, mainly because DP is voting for him and yet Arakhor's umbrage seems natural.
I'm not fond of being instantly suspected of being scum for my normal behaviour either. I'm only calling out what's happened.
Another tangle with Renata. At this point I'm pretty confident that they're not scum together (though I don't think Renata's scum anyway).
If only I knew what Barto-esque implied.
This is my first game here. I wasn't aware that being rambly and seemingly scummy was copyrightable.
Which bit are you disagreeing with? Un-fun, inept, counter-productive or not necessarily scummy?
So... late-day "random" vote, followed by a vote (in the same post!) to throw DP101 into a tie once again?
This is then followed by a vote for Renata, which isn't valid because it's not in red and thus makes your 'complaint' about proper voting most ironic.
This is 30 minutes before EOD1 with Arakhor getting in a tangle for Monty (again, click the post for context). He's been somewhat scumreading Monty all day so this at least fits in.
I'd expect you to disagree. You did it after all.
Given that your last vote was for DP101, what's that bit then?
Then it was lazy and partially nonsensical. Either way...
More tussling with Monty.
---
Posts a bunch of tallies as the usual EOD flurry is upon us, and then with two minutes to go, responds to this post from Al:
I think Arakhor wants to get back at me after our last game together, where I was scum, and the first D1 opening post, which was Arakhor's, was "Al has fooled me before but not anymore", he suspected me whole game, but eventually lost.
I'd forgotten about that, Al. Which game was that?
Which is really, really weird to be focusing on if Arakhor's scum and two of his partners (Al Sips and Dp101) are the lead wagons at this point. Just odd and I think I'm ready to clear Arakhor.
Besides which, literally any reason I cite for my first vote on D1 can be safely disregarded.
Final post before end of day. Again, really weird to be coming from if he's mafia considering the circumstances.
----------
End of Day 1
----------
I don't want to read into his N1 and D2, I think I have enough here. Will revisit this down the road if I need to.
Conclusion: He's got an interaction with Dp looks good, no weird progressions, and behavior at EOD1 that I don't think comes from mafia considering the circumstances of the lynch. Arakhor can be town for a while.
It's the name of the spell, like Lewwyn said. I didn't use it on BSmith no.
Oh, durr. Thanks. Umm, you should probably out that before next dawn, lest the information die with you.
Hmm...i targeted and Al Sips had visited. that is all i know. I am not sure if i would see the redirector if that was used. What did you do?
I am assuming that the scum can use powers in addition to Factional kill. i think someone mentioned a Mana drain. Any effect on your mana? were you Roleblocked?
I haven't said yet what I did other than I didn't self-protect (hide, bp myself, whatever), so if Al Sips was there to kill me, there must have been another factor involved in my survival. Yet you're saying you saw nobody else.
No effect on my mana. I'm not going to rule RB either in or out at this point.
I'm wondering if it's simply that easy and Visor/atheotes are our last two.
But see, this is me tunneling so I'm going to look elsewhere. Probably Snerk and/or Arakhor.
That wasn't tunnelling at all.
I have less of a baseline on Snerk/Arakhor to work with and I want to start correcting that. Plus, Sooh's giving us less atm than the other two.
What a scummy reasoning. Why are making scummy posts today?
Is this not exactly how Visor plays as town? He seems normal to me. I thought his argument was interesting at least...
Also, Montmorency I Detected Corruption on someone and they were not corrupted, so unless I got redirected or some other nonsense it should be correct. I'm not gonna say who for obvious reasons unless you guys come after me with the pitchforks...
Can confirm that the mentioned spell sounds similar to mine. Thing is, according to the claims there is now at least three people who have used an alignment scan n1. Seems OP for town. Someone is lying or scums have significant counter to this. Csargo I'd preferred if you went public with your result. At any rate Winston is already claimed scanned uncorrupt.
OK. Snerk, are you going to out yours?
I already have. Failed scan on Sooh.
atheotes
02-08-2017, 16:56
I haven't said yet what I did other than I didn't self-protect (hide, bp myself, whatever), so if Al Sips was there to kill me, there must have been another factor involved in my survival. Yet you're saying you saw nobody else.
No effect on my mana. I'm not going to rule RB either in or out at this point.
well, maybe he wasnt there to kill you. i cant think of anything else right now. I targeted you and Al Sips had visited
Too many seer/watch/track actions. so the scum probably have options to counter them. I am thinking about ignoring these and just focusing on reads for now.
I already have. Failed scan on Sooh.
My memory sucks rocks. Sorry.
well, maybe he wasnt there to kill you. i cant think of anything else right now. I targeted you and Al Sips had visited
Too many seer/watch/track actions. so the scum probably have options to counter them. I am thinking about ignoring these and just focusing on reads for now.
Probably the best idea.
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 16:58
I am thinking about ignoring these and just focusing on reads for now.
Welcome to the righteous path, my friend. :yes:
Probably the best idea.
Welcome to the righteous path, my friend. :yes:
So much disagree!! These games truly shine when you can pause boring attempts at tone reads and focus on getting lost in the maze of spreadsheets of conflicting ability uses! :bounce:
Arakhor - 60 posts so far. This will exclude the socialization stuff.
First post is a vote against Csargo. Clearly RVS. Tiniest of "not likely scum together" but not even worth talking about.
This post is a response to atheotes calling Visor town. Here we start to see the hedge, though this is Arakhor's M.O. Could be interpreted as a slight disagreement with the mutual Visor/atheotes townread, not enough info on their flips yet to make a ruling about associatives. Commentary on Renata but not an opinion about her.
More of the same, an easy interaction with Csargo plus a further questioning of Visor/atheotes. Don't think they'd do this much distancing at this early stage of the game.
Six hour gap between the last post and this one, in which I called Arakhor out for hedging. He has a fairly reasonable-sounding defense for this. Continues to be voting for Csargo.
This is in reference to Al Sipsclar's one early vote. Doesn't appear to take an opinion on it.
Okay here we go. He appears to be defending Winston (who looks good now), drops the "too scummy" defense on Al (does a scumbuddy resort to this halfway through D1?), and appears to be shading Visor a bit.
Votes Al Sipsclar and telegraphs his reasoning for doing so. Bit awkward, could be seen as him giving up on Al reappearing/potential distancing.
This was in response to Visor asking him about Al Sips.
These last three posts were in reponse to a case/vote from Renata as per his previous hedginess. I do think I like the tone here.
Continuing the argument above, click on the posts themselves for context. I do like him standing his ground here.
I questioned him about his earlier read on Monty, he responds.
This is a bit of a back-and-forth with DP and I think this is probably the sequence of posts that looks best for Arakhor, mainly because DP is voting for him and yet Arakhor's umbrage seems natural.
Another tangle with Renata. At this point I'm pretty confident that they're not scum together (though I don't think Renata's scum anyway).
This is 30 minutes before EOD1 with Arakhor getting in a tangle for Monty (again, click the post for context). He's been somewhat scumreading Monty all day so this at least fits in.
More tussling with Monty.
---
Posts a bunch of tallies as the usual EOD flurry is upon us, and then with two minutes to go, responds to this post from Al:
Which is really, really weird to be focusing on if Arakhor's scum and two of his partners (Al Sips and Dp101) are the lead wagons at this point. Just odd and I think I'm ready to clear Arakhor.
Final post before end of day. Again, really weird to be coming from if he's mafia considering the circumstances.
----------
End of Day 1
----------
I don't want to read into his N1 and D2, I think I have enough here. Will revisit this down the road if I need to.
Conclusion: He's got an interaction with Dp looks good, no weird progressions, and behavior at EOD1 that I don't think comes from mafia considering the circumstances of the lynch. Arakhor can be town for a while.
I guess I agree with your final conclusion -- he looks pretty pure around EoD for someone who'd have to be facing w/w/w wagons if he's scum -- but I don't like your giving so much weight to that one very minor Dp interaction while practically ignoring the much more suggestive reactions to Al Sips. Even Al Sips' comment that Arakhor's just got a grudge reads to me as potential distancing from someone who's on the chopping block, as much as it does an actual attempt to get Arakhor in trouble again.
I'd try one, maybe two other options before Arakhor but I don't even see him being out of my POE.
Interesting that you felt the need to clarify that you meant Dp.
Vote: Sooh
What do you mean?
DP was the only scum that had flipped up until then. There might have been other scummies bussing elsewhere. Or are you implying that I knew there were other scummies bussing elsewhere?
OK but if your reads were already typed out, why delay them to the day? Why so confident you were going to survive the night?
That is a good call indeed, specially considering that BSmith was acting kinda scummy.
I stand by my leans from earlier. With Winston getting a boost and Visor taking a dip.
Sooh or Atheotes. Alternatively Visor or Renata.
vote: Sooh
I want to know why my scan of Sooh failed.
You tell me! I can see exactly two spells in my selection that might make it so that your spell didn't work. There's a jailor and a roleblocker.
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 17:37
Snerk - 30 posts at the time of writing. Again, I'll be removing all of the socialization stuff.
I'm 100% sure Renata is scum. You're welcome.
First post (#13 overall), RVS. Socialization with Renata continues for a bit.
Choxorn for defeatism. CFC will pull a phoenix and rise from the ashes.
Right?
Definitely seems relaxed and flow-y early D1, at any rate.
Too much blabber? Members of the jury, I would like to direct your attention to page one of this thread.
Back to Renata. Glasshouses and all that.
Renata calls out Snerk for too much blabber, Snerk calls Renata right back for her Page 1 flurry.
You think edits are bad, you should see my typos. But I'll try.
Disagree. Her frantic opening to a recent all business approach. I'm getting a scum vibe.
Disagreement is re: my townread on Renata, he's standing his ground early.
That's oversimplifying it. But in general, scum cares more than town, no? I know I do when I'm scum.
Good to file away for future reference.
Might be. Would surprise me though. Would you say that there's no correlation between your level of enthusiasm towards a game, and the role you're given in said game?
Anybody know if Winston, BSmith or Csargo is active elsewhere?
Continuing to question Renata on stuff, I'm seeing solve-y behavior towards the people he isn't familiar with. This is reinforcing my D1 townread of Snerk for good tone, at the very least.
Wasn't talking about effort into solving the game, was talking about effort in general. On average I undeniable put more effort into games I'm scum, and work harder to get out of a possible lynch then I do when town. I don't understand your point.
I'm not a mind reader so personal experiences is the best outset available to me.
This is his final salvos in his argument with Zack, still not backing down.
It always turns into a different thing. With all my views pornographically warped into some extreme with zero view for any nuance.
OK but tbf he's never played with me before.
Defends me a bit against Zack for one of my posts.
Why are my effort levels scummy?
I'm not onboard this train at all. But I liked their confrontation last page.
Sorry didn't know edits were not allowed. This is odd it's highly unusual for me to brake any game rules.
This is bang on but for what it's worth Arakhor is a hedge-y kind of guy regardless of alignment.
idk, so far I'm reading Snerk's responses to the whole "effort level as scum vs. town" discussion as honestly confused townie. He does also appear to be solving. We also have our first interaction with one of the flipped scums, openly disagreeing with Dp101 about Zack/Winston looking townie.
It's certainly possible.Who's your best candidate for the lynch today and why?
Response to Renata asking him about moving his vote from her, seems to be genuinely trying to figure her out.
Congratulations, you have better memory than me. :)
The reason I asked is that I don't see my efforts thus far as all that constructive. So I don't really follow the logic, but I guess I sort of see where it's coming from.
This is Snerk's final post of D1, continuing his line of argument about the whole effort discussion in response to Winston. After this point he departs the thread for a bit over 24 hours, which is kind of aggravating. His reaction to the lynch (after the flip) was as follows:
I still think we should have lynched Renata.
Which is weird but still kind of townie? I'm probably projecting a bit but I think scum would be more likely to put down something like "wow lol, gj town", etc.
---------
D2
---------
GeneralHankerchief:
Huge summary post and lots of reads. Seems mostly on the ball. Al vote is null. TOWN
Montmorency:
Dp vote looks pure. TOWN
Choxorn:
Votes Dp when the Al wagon was forming, unscummy IMO. I liked his post lynch summary posts. TOWN
Atheotes:
Don’t like his I’ll be back later with reads. Part of the Montmorency wagon scums tried as a last push for a mislynch. SCUM
Arakhor:
Seems samey as previous town games. Dp made an unbussy Arakhor vote. TOWN
Visor:
Kinda unreadable. Third on Al wagon. TOWN
Csargo:
Pure gut but if scummy then why not bus yesterday since one scum was going down anyway? TOWN
Winston Hughes:
Very untidy reaction to pressure. TOWN/SCUM
Kcaz:
I guess liked his Winston confrontation. TOWN
Sooh
On neither scum wagons. Her beef with Zack looks a little opportunistic. I can see her not wanting to bus. My attempt at learning more about Sooh last night was thwarted. SCUM
Renata:
Not completely giving up my Renata tunneling. Her early Al vote seems unconstructive as scum. But her game opening WAS scummy. She pushed for Arakhor/Winston wagon over the mafia wagons until a scum lynch was inevitable. TOWN/SCUM
Lewwyn:
IMO his early Dp vote is towny due to an Al wagon also forming. TOWN
This was his first post of D2. Some of these reads come out of nowhere due to him not really having interacted with/given opinions on everybody D1, but from what I see none of his progressions are out of the ordinary. His atheotes reasoning (vote timing) was incorrect, which I pointed out and he responded below (in addition to others reacting):
Right you are, it's earlier. Page 2 early.
Eventually. Can people claim (if only softclaim) nightly activities pls.
Less.
BSmith kill doesn't make sense. If it's a vig pls claim it whoever. Al kill could be a busdriver or something?
In order: These quotes are responding to:
1) me correcting him about atheotes
2) Monty asking him about his Sooh read and night action.
3) Renata not sure if Snerk keeping his tunnel on her makes him more or less scummy.
4) Zack talking about the BSmith kill and how he likely wasn't a mafia target.
No that's perfectly possible too. But it's a remarkably good shot if so. I had Al down as town just due to being the alt scum wagon. Two scum wagons d1 happens, but not very often.
Asked if Al was a straight-up vig shot.
A couple of mechanics posts, and then:
Easily the scummiest post d2.
Takes umbrage to my "mechanics talk is boring as crap" post, which I guess checks out because he doesn't realize that it's basically my signature move to hate that sort of thing. Notably doesn't respond to my follow-up about said meta though.
12 hour break from the thread, and then his next post:
OK but if your reads were already typed out, why delay them to the day? Why so confident you were going to survive the night?
That is a good call indeed, specially considering that BSmith was acting kinda scummy.
I stand by my leans from earlier. With Winston getting a boost and Visor taking a dip.
Sooh or Atheotes. Alternatively Visor or Renata.
vote: Sooh
I want to know why my scan of Sooh failed.
Is in response to atheotes's weird "these reads are out of date but here they are anyway!" post, in addition to following up his suspicions on Sooh for his scan of her failing. Visor pops into his scum list for the first time, seemingly without explanation. Will ask clarification on this in a new post.
That wasn't tunnelling at all.
What a scummy reasoning. Why are making scummy posts today?
Can confirm that the mentioned spell sounds similar to mine. Thing is, according to the claims there is now at least three people who have used an alignment scan n1. Seems OP for town. Someone is lying or scums have significant counter to this. Csargo I'd preferred if you went public with your result. At any rate Winston is already claimed scanned uncorrupt.
Continues to take issue with my D2 posts, more mechanical stuff.
Conclusion: Nothing clearing, but not much scummy either. Let's say light town.
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 17:39
Snerk - In your early D2 reads post here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152488-Swords-and-Sorcery-Mafia-Without-the-Swords-In-Play/page22&p=2053737669#post2053737669) you had Visor as town, but later on put him in your possible scum list in this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152488-Swords-and-Sorcery-Mafia-Without-the-Swords-In-Play/page26&p=2053737829#post2053737829), seemingly without indication that you had changed your mind. What caused you to do a 180 like this?
You tell me! I can see exactly two spells in my selection that might make it so that your spell didn't work. There's a jailor and a roleblocker.
Are you claiming you did not Hide yourself?
Are you claiming you did not Hide yourself?
I didn't Hide.
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 17:49
I guess I agree with your final conclusion -- he looks pretty pure around EoD for someone who'd have to be facing w/w/w wagons if he's scum -- but I don't like your giving so much weight to that one very minor Dp interaction while practically ignoring the much more suggestive reactions to Al Sips. Even Al Sips' comment that Arakhor's just got a grudge reads to me as potential distancing from someone who's on the chopping block, as much as it does an actual attempt to get Arakhor in trouble again.
I'd try one, maybe two other options before Arakhor but I don't even see him being out of my POE.
Didn't read it from Al's end of it. Here's the post in question for reference:
I think Arakhor wants to get back at me after our last game together, where I was scum, and the first D1 opening post, which was Arakhor's, was "Al has fooled me before but not anymore", he suspected me whole game, but eventually lost.
I guess I can kind of see it, and there's a couple of awkward interactions on both sides of it, but on balance I still have Arakhor as leaning town.
Snerk - In your early D2 reads post here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152488-Swords-and-Sorcery-Mafia-Without-the-Swords-In-Play/page22&p=2053737669#post2053737669) you had Visor as town, but later on put him in your possible scum list in this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152488-Swords-and-Sorcery-Mafia-Without-the-Swords-In-Play/page26&p=2053737829#post2053737829), seemingly without indication that you had changed your mind. What caused you to do a 180 like this?
Didn't like that he argued for disregarding Sooh and Atheotes as lynch candidates today. So he essentially traded places with Winston for a place among my tier two suspects.
what did you do last night sooh?
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 18:41
I really think it's just Visor today.
Vote: Visor
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 20:07
atheotes, why didn't you post your reads during the night... you know, during the night?
Winston Hughes
02-08-2017, 20:11
Winston - i always find the "would i do it as scum?" defense very scummy.
Of course it's scummy. That's why I'd never use it as scum.
Snerk - 30 posts at the time of writing. Again, I'll be removing all of the socialization stuff.
First post (#13 overall), RVS. Socialization with Renata continues for a bit.
Definitely seems relaxed and flow-y early D1, at any rate.
Renata calls out Snerk for too much blabber, Snerk calls Renata right back for her Page 1 flurry.
Disagreement is re: my townread on Renata, he's standing his ground early.
Good to file away for future reference.
Continuing to question Renata on stuff, I'm seeing solve-y behavior towards the people he isn't familiar with. This is reinforcing my D1 townread of Snerk for good tone, at the very least.
This is his final salvos in his argument with Zack, still not backing down.
Defends me a bit against Zack for one of my posts.
idk, so far I'm reading Snerk's responses to the whole "effort level as scum vs. town" discussion as honestly confused townie. He does also appear to be solving. We also have our first interaction with one of the flipped scums, openly disagreeing with Dp101 about Zack/Winston looking townie.
Response to Renata asking him about moving his vote from her, seems to be genuinely trying to figure her out.
This is Snerk's final post of D1, continuing his line of argument about the whole effort discussion in response to Winston. After this point he departs the thread for a bit over 24 hours, which is kind of aggravating. His reaction to the lynch (after the flip) was as follows:
Which is weird but still kind of townie? I'm probably projecting a bit but I think scum would be more likely to put down something like "wow lol, gj town", etc.
---------
D2
---------
This was his first post of D2. Some of these reads come out of nowhere due to him not really having interacted with/given opinions on everybody D1, but from what I see none of his progressions are out of the ordinary. His atheotes reasoning (vote timing) was incorrect, which I pointed out and he responded below (in addition to others reacting):
In order: These quotes are responding to:
1) me correcting him about atheotes
2) Monty asking him about his Sooh read and night action.
3) Renata not sure if Snerk keeping his tunnel on her makes him more or less scummy.
4) Zack talking about the BSmith kill and how he likely wasn't a mafia target.
Asked if Al was a straight-up vig shot.
A couple of mechanics posts, and then:
Takes umbrage to my "mechanics talk is boring as crap" post, which I guess checks out because he doesn't realize that it's basically my signature move to hate that sort of thing. Notably doesn't respond to my follow-up about said meta though.
12 hour break from the thread, and then his next post:
Is in response to atheotes's weird "these reads are out of date but here they are anyway!" post, in addition to following up his suspicions on Sooh for his scan of her failing. Visor pops into his scum list for the first time, seemingly without explanation. Will ask clarification on this in a new post.
Continues to take issue with my D2 posts, more mechanical stuff.
Conclusion: Nothing clearing, but not much scummy either. Let's say light town.
I like this post more than the Arakhor one. The almost utter lack of interactions with or notice of flipped scum is what gives me most pause.
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 20:14
I like this post more than the Arakhor one. The almost utter lack of interactions with or notice of flipped scum is what gives me most pause.
The issue with this (and the reason I'm not going after it) is mostly context. He's got one disagreement with Dp, which, okay. With Al Sips though, all but one of Al's posts were made around the time of EoD, and Snerk was AWOL for 24 hours during that time. So he never really got the chance to interact with/comment on Al.
Notice
As I'm sure you've noticed, you haven't received your spell updates. I got bogged down with studying for my Comps yesterday, and didn't have a chance to send them out. You should receive them relatively soon. (Next few hours hopefully)
The issue with this (and the reason I'm not going after it) is mostly context. He's got one disagreement with Dp, which, okay. With Al Sips though, all but one of Al's posts were made around the time of EoD, and Snerk was AWOL for 24 hours during that time. So he never really got the chance to interact with/comment on Al.
I'm not sure of the timing of Al's wagon wrt Snerk's presence in the thread.
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 20:49
I'm not sure of the timing of Al's wagon wrt Snerk's presence in the thread.
Without going back through the entire thread and checking, I'm guessing the two were unrelated. Snerk was gone from ~23 hours before EOD to ~1 hour after, and I'm not sure there was much movement on Al Sipsclar in the time he was here, mostly because the "huh, Al's still gone, probably not a good look" sentiment would naturally only build later on.
GH why did you townread me so quickly this game?
I'm going to write it down in my notes for the next time I rand wolf.
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 20:56
GH why did you townread me so quickly this game?
I'm going to write it down in my notes for the next time I rand wolf.
Mostly tone, some other things that I'll get into postgame assuming I'm right. :laugh4:
Mid Day Vote Tally Accurate to post 840
Day two ends in
Visor - 3 (Renata, Winston Hughes, GHC)
Sooh - 2 (Atheotes, Snerk)
Atheotes - 1 (Montmorency)
Lewwyn - 1 (Visor)
Not voting (6) (Arakhor, Choxorn, Csargo, Kcaz, Lewwyn, Sooh)
Voting History
Arakhor - No Vote
Atheotes - Sooh 773
Choxorn - No Vote
Csargo - No Vote
GeneralHankerchief - Visor 833
Kcaz - No Vote
Lewwyn - No Vote
Montmorency - Atheotes 616
Renata - Visor 629
Snerk - Sooh 777
Sooh - No Vote
Visor - Lewwyn 768
Winston Hughes - Visor 634
Please Note
Game Rules.
Please pay close attention as some of these rules are from where I usually host, which means they might not be what you are used to.
Breaking rules will result in penalties ranging from warnings to loss of abilities, being mod killed, or being replaced at the GM’s discretion.
Voting is mandatory. Voting no lynch or abstain is not an option. Failure to vote is subject to penalties up to and including being mod killed. Failure to vote on two separate occasions will automatically initiate a modkill and a loss.
Montmorency
02-08-2017, 21:14
Arakhor, can you reveal now whom you watched last night?
though we cannot be sure at this point, the method of both the night kills seem to indicate that they were vigs.
Renata might have done the smart thing and used some kind of self protection or a redirector onto someone who was protected.
Well, I'll note one thing down: the vig spell is called "Incinerate", and the kills were accomplished with fireballs. We need to see what sort of different kill writeups appear. Perhaps this is just how direct lethal spells appear in the fluff.
What makes you think BSmith was the scum kill? i mean, other than the obvious lack of any other townie death.
No other reason.
no. i said some was looking out for you...like a redirection. it is also possible you did whatever Monty did.
She didn't commute then, commuting makes you immaterial to all roles, including roleblocks or other early effects.
If you're claiming a watch, you should see whoever targeted me. Assuming Al Sips was there to kill me, you should have seen someone else I think. Whoever the redirector was, if it was that I'd think, and then you would NOT see Al Sips. If it was a straight-up protection you should have seen the protector. This doesn't make sense.
I can think of one scenario where it maybe works, but it seems farfetched.
Al Sipsclar could have been affected from his end, or maybe he just wasn't planning on killing you that night.
Maybe he converted you. :clown:
Is this not exactly how Visor plays as town? He seems normal to me. I thought his argument was interesting at least...
Also, Montmorency I Detected Corruption on someone and they were not corrupted, so unless I got redirected or some other nonsense it should be correct. I'm not gonna say who for obvious reasons unless you guys come after me with the pitchforks...
Thank you for your input.
I'm not lynching atheotes today. His claim is weird though, but more resilient than other fake claims in most cases.
Unvote: atheotes
I don't want to jump onto Visor unless there's no clear alternative.
Here is the claim list:
Monty: Commuted
Winston: Failed watch on Monty; can multicast
Arakhor: Watched someone
Snerk: Failed scan on Sooh; confirms existence of alignment spell
Zack: Scanned Winston non-corrupt
Lewwyn: Redirected from Choxorn to Sooh
Renata: No Self-protection or redirection used
Atheotes: Watched Renata
Csargo: Scan ("Detect Corruption") on GH, not corrupt
Sooh: Didn't hide
Could someone have targeted Choxorn to nullify powers used against him, thereafter redirected by Lewwyn onto Sooh - thus cancelling Snerk's scan?
It's also time to start thinking of these claimed results in terms of scum pairings.
I think it's super-unlikely that Zack and Montmorency are both mafia, given that it was Zack who started the attempted rush on Monty near the end of D1. Trying to turn a double-scum vote into a triple-scum vote seems foolish in the extreme, though of course it would make sense if Zack was scum and trying to implicate an innocent Monty. Given that the only two other votes on him were known scum, I think it rather unlikely that Monty is scum at all.
Zack then of course voted for Dp, when it might have been more sensible to vote for Al, given that if you're guaranteed to lose one scum, you want to lose the inactive one first. Chances are then that Zack is not scum either, but scum-Zack is not nearly as implausible as scum-Monty is.
(Granted, I've done implausible things before, but that doesn't make implausible things any more plausible simply because they do occasionally happen.)
what did you do last night sooh?
I chose to protect someone.
GeneralHankerchief
02-08-2017, 21:24
I think it's super-unlikely that Zack and Montmorency are both mafia, given that it was Zack who started the attempted rush on Monty near the end of D1. Trying to turn a double-scum vote into a triple-scum vote seems foolish in the extreme, though of course it would make sense if Zack was scum and trying to implicate an innocent Monty. Given that the only two other votes on him were known scum, I think it rather unlikely that Monty is scum at all.
Zack then of course voted for Dp, when it might have been more sensible to vote for Al, given that if you're guaranteed to lose one scum, you want to lose the inactive one first. Chances are then that Zack is not scum either, but scum-Zack is not nearly as implausible as scum-Monty is.
(Granted, I've done implausible things before, but that doesn't make implausible things any more plausible simply because they do occasionally happen.)
I 100% agree with this. Don't want to examine either of them individually until we start getting into tinfoil-safe territory (f7 and beyond), refuse to consider them both together.
Arakhor, can you reveal now whom you watched last night?
No one's coming forward to claim that they targeted Zack, which is understandable, as I targeted him and he had no other visitors. Well, I was told that no one visited him, but since I did (based on the long-standing tradition that people tend to target either Zack or ATPG an awful lot), I presume Jabbz meant no one else did.
Montmorency
02-08-2017, 21:24
The following will continue to operate on the assumption of two remaining scum.
Permissive interpretation of claims so far:
Zack, Winston, Csargo, GH, are town.
Plus Renata and Monty for game.
Add Arakhor, Lewwyn, Choxorn as before.
Atheotes OK for now.
Snerk null.
That leaves Visor and Sooh.
Rule out Zack-Winston and Csargo-GH for m/m.
Rule out Snerk-Sooh and Atheotes-Renata m/m (weaker than above).
All scum being in Visor-Sooh-atheotes is too easy. I can't see alternative to lynching one of Sooh-Visor today, at least.
Montmorency
02-08-2017, 21:27
I chose to protect someone.
Whom? It's a cheap kind of claim, you have to admit.
Whom? It's a cheap kind of claim, you have to admit.
It's also an understandable decision, don't you think? I spent D1 pretty much zoned out, and though I did have certain moments when I felt I might be on to something I pretty much entered the night not knowing how to feel about most things. The only thing I felt pretty certain about was one person's townieness, so I chose to use my action there, keeping them in the game. If you don't know who, go read N1. It should be pretty clear who the one person I town read was.
I wonder if "unique role" beside a spell means that no one else was offered that spell or if it simply means that it doesn't map to an existing mafia role.
Mostly tone, some other things that I'll get into postgame assuming I'm right. :laugh4:
lowers notebook
It's also an understandable decision, don't you think? I spent D1 pretty much zoned out, and though I did have certain moments when I felt I might be on to something I pretty much entered the night not knowing how to feel about most things. The only thing I felt pretty certain about was one person's townieness, so I chose to use my action there, keeping them in the game. If you don't know who, go read N1. It should be pretty clear who the one person I town read was.
just answer the quesetion imo
Montmorency
02-08-2017, 21:41
GJ on the lynch people. I'm in the process of coming out of a fever haze, so I'll reread the game and see where I'm at then. Renata looks good from EOD, but if she hasn't been murdered by like D4-5 (depending on how this works with deaths at night when there are spells and such things) I'll take a look back there. For me, for now, she's clear.
GH looks pretty bad for that EOD, at least pending a flip on Al sips. Also nicely pointed out that Al refused to self preserve, whoever said that.
Btw, I hate that the tally is alphabetical and doesn't list people in the order they voted.
You mention Renata as looking good.
I honestly really thought that GH tied it up. Especially with how he worded it. In any event, your vote is still looking good imo, because it made it impossible for Dp to survive D1. I don't think a mafioso would do that to another on D1. GH on the other hand. That's still a bit up in the air. I mean, it becomes wifom when you start thinking about it too much.
Renata's vote still looking good. GH still up in the air.
Are you claiming to have protected Renata? Atheotes contradicts this.
I have like... less than ten posts this game so far. It wouldn't break your back to go back and find out.
I was asking about your change on GH early on.
GJ on the lynch people. I'm in the process of coming out of a fever haze, so I'll reread the game and see where I'm at then. Renata looks good from EOD, but if she hasn't been murdered by like D4-5 (depending on how this works with deaths at night when there are spells and such things) I'll take a look back there. For me, for now, she's clear.
GH looks pretty bad for that EOD, at least pending a flip on Al sips. Also nicely pointed out that Al refused to self preserve, whoever said that.
Btw, I hate that the tally is alphabetical and doesn't list people in the order they voted.
Looks like Sooh had me clear and is suggesting she protected me. That's a direct contradiction between her and atheotes, shenanigans allowing.
Who has not claimed an action? Me, GH, Visor, anyone else?
Montmorency
02-08-2017, 21:49
Choxorn.
That would suggest that, barring shenanigans, either Atheotes or Sooh is lying. That's interesting, because currently Atheotes is one of the very few people still on my "possibly shady" list.
Adding my night action to the pile of claims: I vigged Al Sips. Like I've said before, I didn't like how he and Dp's reactions to being the top two wagons seemed very w/w.
I'm not sure why you're highlighting my post in passing. Sure it wasn't extremely detailed, but it's not as though I could be. I meant that since both wagons were corrupted, then I think it's likely that corrupted are likely in one of them. So looking at the votes and making judgments based on them is wifom type deal.
Because it was just kinda weird seeing a "Oh look what happened last night" type post more than a few posts into the day, and saying that it would change your opinions... well, duh, of course it would. Your post was just very meaningless and didn't say anything at all.
Good. Was pretty sure it was you. Slightly paranoid it wouldn't be and that someone coughVisorcough would try to take credit for something that BSmith actually did.
Montmorency
02-08-2017, 23:00
Sorry to bring this off-topic, but I just recalled something Pizza said in QT a couple of games back.
My town game is in the shitter, it really really is. There's no comparing it. My scum game is the New England Patriots and my town game is the London Sillynannies.
Timely.
We should trade scum games. That'd be fair, right?
The trick is in method acting.
Winston Hughes
02-08-2017, 23:53
If the player with the most votes has used a lynchproof spell, is the player in second place lynched?
If the player with the most votes has used a lynchproof spell, is the player in second place lynched?
asking for a friend?
Montmorency
02-09-2017, 00:47
Well, it compensates for vigs I guess. Unless everyone takes both lynchproof and vig (and bulletproof for good measure).
I am not going to claim what I did last night.
Good. Was pretty sure it was you. Slightly paranoid it wouldn't be and that someone coughVisorcough would try to take credit for something that BSmith actually did.
I was sort of hoping someone would try to claim it if I went long enough without mentioning it so I could call them out on it, but that obviously wasn't going to happen.
Montmorency
02-09-2017, 01:54
I am not going to claim what I did last night.
Could you at least say whether it had or on paper could have had impact on any of the other claimed actions?
Montmorency
02-09-2017, 01:56
And you, GH and Renata, one of you do something useful tonight and activate the power that will let you see what BSmith did the night he died, if anything.
And you, GH and Renata, one of you do something useful tonight and activate the power that will let you see what BSmith did the night he died, if anything.
Suuuuuuureeee.
If you take that as me denying I have any such power, you'd be right.
Montmorency
02-09-2017, 02:11
Can you turn up the resistance a notch? I need more to justify the impending crackdowns.
I don't even know what you mean, but sure.
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 03:09
Clearly my opinions aren't shared by the majority. :laugh4:
Lewwyn
I am not going to claim what I did last night.
These are Visor's only two posts in the past 24 hours.
I know, "I play at my own pace", but there's just nothing.
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 03:11
These are Visor's only two posts in the past 24 hours.
I know, "I play at my own pace", but there's just nothing.
And this isn't in reference to any meta. This is now an issue of his lack of solving/adjusting to developments in the thread.
So, GH, will you tell us anything about what you did last night?
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 03:14
So, GH, will you tell us anything about what you did last night?
No.
Montmorency
02-09-2017, 03:20
Do you have any comments on the allegations that you are Visor's godfather?
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 03:22
Do you have any comments on the allegations that you are Visor's godfather?
I'm not.
Do you honestly suspect me, Monty?
Montmorency
02-09-2017, 03:24
I'm not.
Do you honestly suspect me, Monty?
Not really. Maybe. :shrug:
I mean, you could still be scum and Visor town.
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 03:43
Not really. Maybe. :shrug:
I mean, you could still be scum and Visor town.
Why? Because I'm not cooperating?
I mean, for you, specifically you, who's well aware of my meta, you have to do quite a lot of mental gymnastics in order to arrive at the conclusion that I'm scum.
First you either have to believe that:
a) Csargo is scum with me and is lying, and considering that the mafia is most likely a team of four we'd have to be exactly the last two and link ourselves to each other like that
b) There was a redirector lurking around and targeted either me or Csar specifically, an action which has gone unclaimed by like 95% of the playerbase by this point
c) I'm exactly the godfather.
Once that accounts for Csargo's investigation of me, then you have to look at my actual behavior. Does it appear scummy? Do my reads/progressions etc. appear fake or unnatural? Do I seem to be pushing an agenda that will lynch townies instead of mafiosi?
And then once that's done, you need to analyze my behavior in terms of a mafioso looking through the long-term lens. Two of my top townreads are you and Zack, and this has been the case for a while. If I'm mafia, I'm going to have to get rid of you two at some point. Could I do it through a nightkill? Possibly, but considering you and Zack look the best after Dp's spew, you're among the targets more likely to be protected at night. What about Renata? I've townread her pretty much right out of the gate and she's also likely untouchable at night. Gonna have to deal with her too. Am I setting myself up for long-term survival here?
I fully respect the power of tinfoil, but it's nowhere near the time yet and I do not deserve the shade I'm getting simply for not marching in lockstep with your plan when I think we're doing fine enough on our own with regular threadwork.
this just in: jimmies have been rustled
goes back to homework
Montmorency
02-09-2017, 04:21
Why? Because I'm not cooperating?
Not at all.
I mean, for you, specifically you, who's well aware of my meta, you have to do quite a lot of mental gymnastics in order to arrive at the conclusion that I'm scum.
?
I already brought this up on D1/N1.
GH is craftier than recent games. I've read him as scum wrongly in most of 2016 (well, I was scum in one), but he's definitely upping the ante in this one. Maybe?
a) Csargo is scum with me and is lying, and considering that the mafia is most likely a team of four we'd have to be exactly the last two and link ourselves to each other like that
Sure, I ruled that out.
b) There was a redirector lurking around and targeted either me or Csar specifically, an action which has gone unclaimed by like 95% of the playerbase by this point
c) I'm exactly the godfather.
Even as I solicit actions from the players, I make provisions for their unreliability. It would be irresponsible not to.
Once that accounts for Csargo's investigation of me, then you have to look at my actual behavior. Does it appear scummy? Do my reads/progressions etc. appear fake or unnatural? Do I seem to be pushing an agenda that will lynch townies instead of mafiosi?
See above.
Two of my top townreads are you and Zack, and this has been the case for a while. If I'm mafia, I'm going to have to get rid of you two at some point.
Why? Not necessarily.
Could I do it through a nightkill? Possibly, but considering you and Zack look the best after Dp's spew, you're among the targets more likely to be protected at night. What about Renata? I've townread her pretty much right out of the gate and she's also likely untouchable at night
We can't all be covered, especially given that abilities are one-shot. Indeed, I've already admitted to being defenseless in terms of auto-defense, having used my Invisibility spell on N1.
So, OK GH, overall what we have here is you going into high gear over the possibility of my not placing you in the all-clear or the top 5 or whatever. You haven't pulled this kind of stunt in all those games of 2016 in which I mistakenly scumread you, and now, when my suspicions are both higher and yet tempered by that same fact and past experience, you do something so out of step with that meta you say I'm so well-aware of...
:thumbsdown:
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 05:01
Monty, you're the single biggest advocate of mass revealing and trying to mechanically solve the game, and you came in immediately after Choxorn had questioned me about my previous night's actions. Therefore I was operating under the assumption that this was what you were shading me for. If this was a misconception then I apologize.
That said, if this is the case then I'm legitimately not sure why you suspect me, and that last paragraph where you talk about 2016 and my meta is confusing me a bit.
(when I referred to my meta in this instance, I meant my hatred for solving by spreadsheet, which wasn't really a factor in any of the 2016 games)
Montmorency
02-09-2017, 05:12
Let's talk about it in the night.
atheotes
02-09-2017, 05:23
Welcome to the righteous path, my friend. :yes:
~:eek: Am i being recruited? i thought there were no cults in this game!
atheotes
02-09-2017, 05:26
What do you mean?
DP was the only scum that had flipped up until then. There might have been other scummies bussing elsewhere. Or are you implying that I knew there were other scummies bussing elsewhere?
As you said, Dp was the only scum flip at that point. i find it interesting that you felt the need to clarify that you were talking about the bussing on Dp.
given that we had w/w wagons, it looks like TMI to me.
What's the tally like right now?
atheotes
02-09-2017, 05:36
atheotes, why didn't you post your reads during the night... you know, during the night?
as i said
i am lynch bait. Already people had suspicions abt me. so i was never going to be targeted by scum. Vig was still possible. But i thought Al would be the higher priority.
Did not expect 2 vig kills tbh.
I thought my reads list was more likely to consolidate top town reads. so i decided not to post them at night.
atheotes
02-09-2017, 05:43
Of course it's scummy. That's why I'd never use it as scum.
WIFOM much? Nothing else that you felt like commenting on?
Well, I'll note one thing down: the vig spell is called "Incinerate", and the kills were accomplished with fireballs. We need to see what sort of different kill writeups appear. Perhaps this is just how direct lethal spells appear in the fluff.
No other reason.
She didn't commute then, commuting makes you immaterial to all roles, including roleblocks or other early effects.
ok. noted.
so Commute is ruled out. Rb is still possible. cant conclude anything till Renata tells us what she did or happened to her
atheotes
02-09-2017, 05:48
I wonder if "unique role" beside a spell means that no one else was offered that spell or if it simply means that it doesn't map to an existing mafia role.
i would think no one has been offered that spell. Not in a position to do anything more than just guess.
atheotes
02-09-2017, 05:55
If the player with the most votes has used a lynchproof spell, is the player in second place lynched?
no. there wont be a lynch that day.
Its a waste of a spell and i feel stupid about it.
atheotes
02-09-2017, 06:04
What's the tally like right now?
this is based on the mid-day tally posted by Jabbz.
Visor - 3 (Renata, Winston Hughes, GHC)
Sooh - 2 (Atheotes, Snerk)
Lewwyn - 1 (Visor)
Not voting (7) (Arakhor, Choxorn, Csargo, Kcaz, Lewwyn, Sooh,Montmorency)
too many people not voting.
Currently waiting on what Sooh has to say.
Visor has gone too quiet.
GH, posting a lot more than i have seen recently. Are you going the "high volume = town" route? Will not work here. i think. :laugh4:
I guess with both Visor and GH flat out refusing to say what they did last night and Choxorn having outed his vig of Al Sips there's no obvious reason for me to hold back anymore. I tried to JK Monty. It went poof. So assuming the poofitude was the result of the Commute, there is no way for me to know whether I was also RBed or not and no way to really evaluate the likelihood of atheotes inventing his watch on me. My result does suggest both that Monty is telling the truth about what he did last night, and that Winston did really target Monty. (Unless they're both scum, blahdiblah pointless tinfoil.) Winston doesn't need to have tried to do what he said he did, though.
Montmorency
02-09-2017, 08:29
Could it really be frustrated-scum recalcitrance at work here? Would Visor just give up? Could it even be Zack last scum standing for the endurance run?
The only productive issue I see left for today is sorting out the contradictory claims between Sooh protecting Renata and atheotes watching Renata (with no visitors).
atheotes
02-09-2017, 09:01
Could it really be frustrated-scum recalcitrance at work here? Would Visor just give up? Could it even be Zack last scum standing for the endurance run?
The only productive issue I see left for today is sorting out the contradictory claims between @Sooh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=99877) protecting Renata and @atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=23809) watching Renata (with no visitors).
I dont think Sooh has confirmed that she was protecting Renata. I understand it is all but confirmed right now. But i would rather wait for her confirmation.
She could have also protected one of the other universally townread people, like me.
In any case, I still have some doubts about Visor, I don't really read anyone nearly as strongly as I read Dp and Al Sips, but Visor's still acting really weird for him and I think he's for sure the most likely to be scum right now.
Vote: Visor
Winston Hughes
02-09-2017, 09:11
Could it even be Zack last scum standing for the endurance run?
The thought certainly crossed my mind.
Without checking back, I don't recall Visor/Zack interactions giving much reason to doubt the possibility.
Montmorency
02-09-2017, 09:28
Sooh said to look at her night posts for clues on whom she protected. She referenced Renata favorably several times. She was ambivalent on GH. I think that was it.
The solo-Zack theory is more a riff off the Democracy game: Zacky II. Visor gets to be Creed?
Been waiting to see if something more would develop, but not much. I am okay with lynching either Visor or Sooh.
Vote: Sooh
atheotes
02-09-2017, 13:27
Been waiting to see if something more would develop, but not much. I am okay with lynching either Visor or Sooh.
Vote: Sooh
Why Sooh?
Why Sooh?
Sooh is the one I've been most suspicious of mostly because of the way there hasn't been any sort of scumhunting. Actively disengaging and not saying anything that can be nailed down or represent a very clear point of view. It's basic scum. Even the role claim is exactly this. I defended someone, you figure out who I defended. Basically allows for Sooh to wait for the rest of the role claims and later pick the one that causes the least conflict.
Visor has terrible and arbitrary reads early in the day, discounting things for whatever reason. And honestly it feels pretty scummy, I'm totally willing to lynch him, but I also think he's at least present something concrete whereas Sooh is not.
There is also the fact that I'd like the two on the block rather than just Visor. I'm still willing to switch to Visor though.
Montmorency
02-09-2017, 14:27
I have to deal with snow and other things today, probably past EOD. Vote: Sooh Tied, 4-4.
Work out the claims and make a decent decision.
I like Vote:Sooh slightly more than Visor here, but either is good here I think.
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 15:47
I'm at something like this right now:
Monty
Renata
Zack
Choxorn
Arakhor
Winston
Csargo
Lewwyn
Snerk
Sooh
atheotes
Visor
Tiers are ordered (obviously), inside the tiers are mostly ordered.
no. there wont be a lynch that day.
Its a waste of a spell and i feel stupid about it.
This post though.
Care to tell those of us who were not offered lynchproof as an option how it exactly works?
Anyone who thinks I could be scum is indulging nonsensical paranoia instead of rational thought.
Actually, unvote:Sooh, Vote:atheotes. A few of his more recent posts ping me as scummy. Anyone else? Hopefully I'll be around for EOD, not sure...
I'm willing to say I did neither of those things.
Perhaps someone was looking out for you. I cant think of any other reason for Al sips to visit you.
First post is me saying I hadn't self-protected. Second post, following, is atheotes claiming a watch on me where he saw only Al Sips. I think the timing of this gives a tiny boost to atheotes telling the truth, because if he's lying about watching me, then my claiming no self-protect has got to give him pause about the staying power of a claim that outside protector was present.
He also had a post prior to these two, which I didn't include, that suggested he was thinking I had self-protected, something that makes sense considering what he claims to have seen.
It's not clearing in at least a couple different ways, but it's a thing that make me feel a bit better about all these Sooh votes right now. I still don't like the idea of Visor wriggling off the hook. I think he's been objectively scummy and I don't want him around gumming up the works any longer than necessary.
In other news, I don't know how Csargo has gone from looking so towny previously to looking so scummy today. Weirdness.
This post though.
Care to tell those of us who were not offered lynchproof as an option how it exactly works?
It's not exactly clear. It makes you immune to lynching. Whether that results in no lynch or something else isn't specified.
Like for how long? You use it one night, you're safe the next day, or something else? Can you use it more than once?
It's just the next day. As far as I know for every spell buying it only gets you one shot.
My Sooh scan failed due to a block btw. Was holding back in case someone said something contradictory.
So this is probably down to one of two things. Someone actively blocked me, or results on Sooh get's blocked. Many different possibilities on how the latter could work.
If someone blocked me it was either one of the unclaimers (can you confirm or deny this?), or someone is lying.
Right now from my POV the block looks very scummy. Because why not claim it? Nothing all that untowny about blocking me last night. But, by keeping schtum it could be a way of framing Sooh. It's not decisive by any means but IMO it doesn't make her look any better that it's unresolved.
atheotes
02-09-2017, 18:07
First post is me saying I hadn't self-protected. Second post, following, is atheotes claiming a watch on me where he saw only Al Sips. I think the timing of this gives a tiny boost to atheotes telling the truth, because if he's lying about watching me, then my claiming no self-protect has got to give him pause about the staying power of a claim that outside protector was present.
He also had a post prior to these two, which I didn't include, that suggested he was thinking I had self-protected, something that makes sense considering what he claims to have seen.
It's not clearing in at least a couple different ways, but it's a thing that make me feel a bit better about all these Sooh votes right now. I still don't like the idea of Visor wriggling off the hook. I think he's been objectively scummy and I don't want him around gumming up the works any longer than necessary.
In other news, I don't know how Csargo has gone from looking so towny previously to looking so scummy today. Weirdness.
it is pretty simple. Fake claiming a watch would be a pretty risky move in a game where everyone is moving about.
I am hoping Sooh would be back to respond. based on what she says it might still be better to lynch Visor today.
Csargo is sliding down pretty fast. his D1 was reasonable. d2 is mostly one liners without much content.
atheotes
02-09-2017, 18:08
My Sooh scan failed due to a block btw. Was holding back in case someone said something contradictory.
So this is probably down to one of two things. Someone actively blocked me, or results on Sooh get's blocked. Many different possibilities on how the latter could work.
If someone blocked me it was either one of the unclaimers (can you confirm or deny this?), or someone is lying.
Right now from my POV the block looks very scummy. Because why not claim it? Nothing all that untowny about blocking me last night. But, by keeping schtum it could be a way of framing Sooh. It's not decisive by any means but IMO it doesn't make her look any better that it's unresolved.
How do you know you were blocked?
Winston Hughes
02-09-2017, 18:20
Anyone who thinks I could be scum is indulging nonsensical paranoia instead of rational thought.
Being 'ridiculous' again, am I? ~;p
Seriously, though, why are you supposed to be lock clear?
I mean, I voted for one scumbag all day yesterday, while I named another as my only alternative lynch from the viable candidates, plus you claim to have scanned me town, but I'm still not treated as lock clear.
The way that Monty wagon played out yesterday involved a scumteam making a mess of an attempted save-by-cfd. It doesn't require a whole lot of imagination to think that Al Sips misunderstood something you said in the scum QT, and thought that he was supposed to push the first vote on Monty, when in fact you were going to do it yourself, thus resulting in the pair of you voting for him more-or-less simultaneously. At that point, for whatever reasons, Dp may have seemed the best scum to play sacrificial lamb, and thus eod plays out as it did.
Is this a likely explanation? No, clearly not. But it's not impossible either.
Did you ever explain why you voted for Monty, btw?
How do you know you were blocked?
Said so in my PM. Well actually it said appears to have been blocked. Which is a little odd and could perhaps indicate some interception from Sooh.
Being 'ridiculous' again, am I? ~;p
Seriously, though, why are you supposed to be lock clear?
I mean, I voted for one scumbag all day yesterday, while I named another as my only alternative lynch from the viable candidates, plus you claim to have scanned me town, but I'm still not treated as lock clear.
The way that Monty wagon played out yesterday involved a scumteam making a mess of an attempted save-by-cfd. It doesn't require a whole lot of imagination to think that Al Sips misunderstood something you said in the scum QT, and thought that he was supposed to push the first vote on Monty, when in fact you were going to do it yourself, thus resulting in the pair of you voting for him more-or-less simultaneously. At that point, for whatever reasons, Dp may have seemed the best scum to play sacrificial lamb, and thus eod plays out as it did.
Is this a likely explanation? No, clearly not. But it's not impossible either.
Did you ever explain why you voted for Monty, btw?
Yes, you are.
It makes no sense for me to bus dp in the way I did there. It makes no sense for me to claim a peek of you after I was pushing you yesterday and could have easily continued with that path today. It's annoying when people keep voicing their tinfoil of me when it's fucking loony. What more could you possibly need?? I hate being town on this site because there is literally nothing I can do to get townread in the way say Renata does every game.
I always try to move my vote around near eod to create situations that can be read into, such as Al and Dp both immediately jumping on Monty. You continuing to needle me for that and make insinuations about it is annoying.
Apologies for being so quiet today. I couldn't remember my password, so I had to wait until I got home. ~:rolleyes:
Winston Hughes
02-09-2017, 18:49
Yes, you are.
It makes no sense for me to bus dp in the way I did there. It makes no sense for me to claim a peek of you after I was pushing you yesterday and could have easily continued with that path today. It's annoying when people keep voicing their tinfoil of me when it's fucking loony. What more could you possibly need?? I hate being town on this site because there is literally nothing I can do to get townread in the way say Renata does every game.
I always try to move my vote around near eod to create situations that can be read into, such as Al and Dp both immediately jumping on Monty. You continuing to needle me for that and make insinuations about it is annoying.
It's because you're so good at playing scum.
Bussing d1 then claiming a peek d2 is not good play as scum.
Why is claiming peek a bad scum move this game?
Why is claiming peek a bad scum move this game?
You either have to clear a village, bus a partner, or get caught in a lie. All three put a clock on your life expectancy.
OK but clearing a villager might IMO be worth it for a town seal of approval if two scumbuddies are dead by d2.
Disagree. If two partners are dead this early, you need to be thinking of how to get to the endgame, and claiming a peek is not the way to do that. People expect you to die and will get suspicious when you don't.
And I especially would not clear a villager I was pushing yesterday. That's just silly.
I think this is the accurate tally as of #931:
Sooh - Atheotes, Snerk, Lewwyn, Montmorency, Zack (5)
Visor - Renata, Winston, GH, Choxorn (4)
Atheotes - Csargo (1)
Lewwyn - Visor (1)
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 19:12
I really do not think that Zack is the type of player to try this kind of ploy as mafia this early in the game.
We established earlier that, shenanigans aside, Atheotes and Sooh are caught in what appears to be an inconsistency with the facts. However, Visorslash has just vanished - he hasn't posted at all in the last 16 hours and barely posted in the preceding 24 hours, which doesn't fit Visor's MO at all.
Disagree. If two partners are dead this early, you need to be thinking of how to get to the endgame, and claiming a peek is not the way to do that. People expect you to die and will get suspicious when you don't.
I'm not sure I expect the peekers to die before others. Might not be top priorities for scum seeing as it seems spells in general are a one-off in terms of usage this game.
It's also been a fairly slow day - 500 posts in D1, 114 in N1 and 320 in D2 so far, with 100 mins or so to go.
Unfortunately, I'm extremely torn on for whom to vote, but Visor just up and disappearing like that is most strange. Vote: Visorslash.
We established earlier that, shenanigans aside, Atheotes and Sooh are caught in what appears to be an inconsistency with the facts. However, Visorslash has just vanished - he hasn't posted at all in the last 16 hours and barely posted in the preceding 24 hours, which doesn't fit Visor's MO at all.
Occam's razor: Sooh, Atheotes or Visor for scum.
Sooh not voting at all, despite the explicit warnings against it, is hardly helping her case, but Visor being totally absent is just bizarre.
I'm too tired to do any real work today, am probably just goign to leave my vote where it is and hope for the best.
Can confirm Renata.
Sooh is the one I've been most suspicious of mostly because of the way there hasn't been any sort of scumhunting. Actively disengaging and not saying anything that can be nailed down or represent a very clear point of view. It's basic scum. Even the role claim is exactly this. I defended someone, you figure out who I defended. Basically allows for Sooh to wait for the rest of the role claims and later pick the one that causes the least conflict.
Visor has terrible and arbitrary reads early in the day, discounting things for whatever reason. And honestly it feels pretty scummy, I'm totally willing to lynch him, but I also think he's at least present something concrete whereas Sooh is not.I understand your reasons, though it's a shame me being sick should determine how I end up this game, but I guess we all have an off game.
I'm going to self-pres this time.
Vote: Visor
It's now 5-6 against Visor, who if he's going to do anything, needs to vote for Sooh if he wants to save himself. With an odd number of players, Csargo could also end up being the tiebreaker.
It's also been a fairly slow day - 500 posts in D1, 114 in N1 and 320 in D2 so far, with 100 mins or so to go.
If you ask me content output today has been fine. 300ish posts in a phase is usually pretty neat if I am to digest it.
Up to date tally. I want to double check it, but I think it's accurate. If that's not where your vote is please post something and indicate where you changed it last.
Sooh – 6 (Atheotes, Snerk, Lewwyn, Montmorency, Csargo, Kcaz)
Visor – 5 (Renata, Winston Hughes, Choxorn, Arakhor, Sooh)
Lewwyn – 1 (Visor)
Atheotes – 1 (GHC)
Voting History (messy, I'm short on time at the moment)
Arakhor Visor 936
Atheotes Sooh 773
Choxorn Visor 900
Csargo Sooh 908
GeneralHankerchief Visor 833 Unvote 912 Atheotes
912
Kcaz Sooh 913
Lewwyn Sooh 903
Montmorency Atheotes 616 Unvote 844 Sooh 907
Renata Visor 629
Snerk Sooh 777
Sooh Visor 940
Visor Lewwyn 768
Winston Hughes Visor 634
Day two ends in
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 20:40
Jabbz, I voted for Visor here:
I really think it's just Visor today.
Vote: Visor
FWIW, I'm keeping my vote on Visor. Kind of wish he was around for EoD but I feel like he's been objectively the scummiest player here by a decent margin.
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 20:40
EDITED AT GM REQUEST PER POST #950
Winston Hughes
02-09-2017, 20:42
cfd on Montmorency?
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 20:43
cfd on Montmorency?
It gave us so much great info yesterday, why not? :laugh4:
In case you read my atheotes thing as a vote change,
Vote: Visor
Got it, put your vote on Csargo's line. Probably would have caught it going back and verifying every vote, but thank you.
Jabbz, I voted for Visor here:
FWIW, I'm keeping my vote on Visor. Kind of wish he was around for EoD but I feel like he's been objectively the scummiest player here by a decent margin.
I think Sooh and Visor are both pretty likely wolves.
GHC for clarity in terms of voting order, you have my permission (and request) to edit post #945 to remove your vote. Post instead Edited at GM request per (this post number)
Winston Hughes
02-09-2017, 20:50
I think Sooh and Visor are both pretty likely wolves.
Yeah.
I think Sooh and Visor are both pretty likely wolves.
Do you think they just gave up?
Occam's razor: Sooh, Atheotes or Visor for scum.
My thoughts exactly. Visor most likely, then Sooh, Atheotes a distant third. I'll be a bit surprised if there's more than one townie in that group and extremely surprised if all three of them are town.
It's now 5-6 against Visor, who if he's going to do anything, needs to vote for Sooh if he wants to save himself. With an odd number of players, Csargo could also end up being the tiebreaker.
I'm not GH sorry. No shenanigans from me.
Corrected vote tally.
Visor -- 6(Renata, WInston Hughes, GHC, Choxorn, Arakhor, Sooh)
Sooh -- 5(Atheotes, Snerk, Lewwyn, Montmorency, Kcaz)
Lewwyn -- 1(Visor)
Atheotes -- 1(Csargo)
Voting History (still messy)
Arakhor Visor 936
Atheotes Sooh 773
Choxorn Visor 900
Csargo Sooh 908 Unvote 912 Atheotes 912
GeneralHankerchief Visor 833
Kcaz Sooh 913
Lewwyn Sooh 903
Montmorency Atheotes 616 Unvote 844 Sooh 907
Renata Visor 629
Snerk Sooh 777
Sooh Visor 940
Visor Lewwyn 768
Winston Hughes Visor 634
Notice
You don't need to unvote, and its messing with my system so please stop :P
If it turns out to be Visor and Sooh as the other scum, this will have been a dramatically one-sided game.
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 20:57
If it turns out to be Visor and Sooh as the other scum, this will have been a dramatically one-sided game.
Part of me wants to say it's not that easy, but I do agree that all three of Visor, Sooh, and atheotes need to flip sooner rather than later.
I'm sure it can't be that easy, but none of them have put in a sterling performance today, even if there were the odd mitigating circumstance or two.
Time. No posting until resolution is complete.
Following the successful capture of one Corrupted Mage on their first day, and the death of another during the night the Council was emboldened. With the additional loss of Bsmith, who was not beloved by all but was at least respected, the Council was also angry. It came as no surprise then that there was again no clear consensus on who should be next submitted to the Trials of Purity. Arguments ran down to the wire, before eventually the chosen mage was to be Visor.
Unlike Dp101 on the previous day, Visor seemed simply resigned rather than angry, and he stood tall as he walked to the center of the room, daring the Council to follow through with his eyes. And so they did.
As before the ritual started smoothly but just after the halfway point Visor began to decompose. He maintained his challenging glare until his eyes rotted in their head, and moments later he slumped to the ground. For a third time green lightning’s tore through the castle, doing no damage, but leaving the mages uneasy, despite finding the third member of the Corrupted.
Visor has been lynched. He was a
Corrupted Mage
Night two Begins, you may resume posting.
End of Day Vote Count
Visor -- 6(Renata, WInston Hughes, GHC, Choxorn, Arakhor, Sooh)
Sooh -- 5(Atheotes, Snerk, Lewwyn, Montmorency, Kcaz)
Lewwyn -- 1(Visor)
Atheotes -- 1(Csargo)
Voting History (still messy)
Arakhor Visor 936
Atheotes Sooh 773
Choxorn Visor 900
Csargo Sooh 908 Unvote 912 Atheotes 912
GeneralHankerchief Visor 833
Kcaz Sooh 913
Lewwyn Sooh 903
Montmorency Atheotes 616 Unvote 844 Sooh 907
Renata Visor 629
Snerk Sooh 777
Sooh Visor 940
Visor Lewwyn 768
Winston Hughes Visor 634
Night two ends in
Whew. That was a scary one, b/c Visor.
Wow. We're 3 for 4 at the moment, which is virtually unprecedented. :hail:
We still should have lynched Renata tho
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 21:15
Wow. We're 3 for 4 at the moment, which is virtually unprecedented. :hail:
Possibly even 3 for 3 depending on how BSmith really died.
No Godfather though (if there is one), and we don't know how many starting mafiosi there were, so we have to stay sharp.
Notice
I know I haven't sent updated spellbooks/mana yet, and I apologize, I've been busy. That being said if I don't send you information before you choose your spells, and for whatever reason you can't cast that, I will correct you ASAP, so stick around after sending the message for at least 20m. I hope to have them out soon.
Again, sorry for the delay.
Visor was 100% protecting partner (s) with that bogus analysis.
GeneralHankerchief
02-09-2017, 22:10
Visor was 100% protecting partner (s) with that bogus analysis.
He mentioned offwagon voters being more likely to be town, right? Don't have time to check the thread right now, but that points to... Snerk, Sooh, maybe one more? Right?
He mentioned offwagon voters being more likely to be town, right? Don't have time to check the thread right now, but that points to... Snerk, Sooh, maybe one more? Right?
Me...
Never trust the spew of a caught wolf, IMO. I think we need to look at people individually, as they related to Visor and other scums before any of them were in trouble.
He mentioned offwagon voters being more likely to be town, right? Don't have time to check the thread right now, but that points to... Snerk, Sooh, maybe one more? Right?
Right. If they're town, that's easy mislynches to just give up.
But with the mafia faction on the ropes, wouldn't Visor be more concerned about surviving than leaving appropriate WIFOM for post flip analysis?
Not that Monty really needs an further help but this from beginning of game looks good for him.
Visor is innocent.
Nah.
You could be right.
[QUOTE=Montmorency;2053736905]Three scum for role madness. Visor, Renata, DP101. Boom.
Would be a bit WIFOMy except that I could actually see the wheels turning in his head to have drawn these connections.
Right after this, atheotes returns an OMGUS vote at Visor -- could go either way on that one as it would have put neither of them in danger. And IIRC they both wind up calling the other innocent, or did before the votes, or something .. all very safely RVS regardless.
But with the mafia faction on the ropes, wouldn't Visor be more concerned about surviving than leaving appropriate WIFOM for post flip analysis?
Yes. Don't think it's his playstyle to really worry about spew he leaves anyways.
Zack taking some probably NAI pokes at Visor.
GH's post looks good for him.
wolfclaim imo
https://media.giphy.com/media/HP5dest4oOHf2/giphy.gif
Given that Visor often does really silly things as town, I might be inclined to agree, but I'm not seeing the other throwaway comments about people's innocence or lack thereof.
Renata also looks like she's going to be purified first.
Visor thanking posts but not posting. Probably a wolf. Kappa.
Unrelated, but he did have a disproportionate amount of people snap reading him earlier. Specifically, a weird exchange/progression between him and atheotes. I'll list it under the spoiler:
Visor's been around since but hasn't mentioned atheotes. atheotes has not been around since.
Just a bit sketchy.
Notice
If you guys could send your night actions in a reply to my updated spellbook, that would be appreciated. It will make keeping track of everything easier.
First three posts: something to keep in mind if atheotes is not scum and Zack's still alive and kicking in a couple of days, but otherwise looks pretty good for him.
Vote: atheotes
Why did you pick atheotes and not Visor?
I thought his end was weirder for him than Visor's was for Visor.
Bit weak, don't you think?
Vote: Winston Hughes
Winton Hughes, atheotes wolf team. Maybe Visor. Al spewed town or mafia, depending on your interpretation.
GH, Renata town.
Some more Visor-related comments. I'm losing my concentration again, so I'll just let people look through them and draw their own conclusions from here on out.
:2thumbsup:
Zack, Renata, Montmorency all seem townie to me. Visor is quieter than normal, but it is the weekend so who knows. GH is a possibility sort of up in the air for me, but it's day one.
Top towns and scums, no particular order:
Towns:
Zack
Renata
Csargo
Snerk
Renata
Zack and Snerk on tone, Csargo is a soul read, Renata's listed twice because she's that townie to me.
Scums
Visor
atheotes
Winston
Arakhor
Visor and atheotes from the interaction I highlighted earlier, atheotes a bit stronger of a read hence my vote. Haven't liked Winston's thread presence so far, particularly this tidbit:
Seems twiggy and a go-to defense as mafia in my experience.
Arakhor because his non-socializing posts have been super hedge-y.
I remember in Masque of Death Winston was fairly windy throughout the game, but was also innocent. A quiet Winston who's not also absent would be somewhat weird to me.
I'd consider voting for Al too, based on the strength of his single post, but Day One seems rather too early for a policy lynch. It just seems too scummy, as it were.
As for Visor/Atheotes, Visor frequently changes his mind and chats up the thread a lot, but often he's on to something at the same time.
All updated spellbooks have been sent out. If I missed you, please PM me.
This is as much as I can do. It's most of day one.
You lie. No such thing.
Better to say: Winston? More like Winsnot. ohhhh
I was inclined to favor your position, but this post sounds a lot like Pizza-style bamboozling. I'll chalk it up to your philosophical experimentation.
We're all power roles. Some of me more so than others.
Stray votes? So do you expect not to be townread, or the opposite? I certainly stand by my non-townread of you, for one.
Are you a hedgy-on-Arakhor kind of guy regardless of alignment?
That's always the question, isn't it?
Visor-Renata still sounds good. DP probably wouldn't take the risk of putting her into the lead as partner.
Someone enterprising should cross-check this sentiment against the last game and its low-poster narratives.
Everyone lists their powers for public review except vig - discuss.
I meant that I don't form the same impression of other people's guilt or innocence as quickly as everyone else seems to do. I'm more inclined to believe that Visor is town at the moment, given that his current behaviour matches other times I've known him to be town.
I feel like this quote is isn't alignment-indicative for Visor specifically, but I've noticed a general trend recently of the person coming out and saying not to talk about mechanics/night actions/stuff along those lines being >rand scum.
Does anyone have a vote count?
And deadline is in little under 7 hours I think? yes?
BTW also feeling fine with Visor.
Here's some of the interesting things today that related to Visorslash:
My money's on sooh/atheotes. Visor >rand wolf if he has low wim.
It's now comfortably morning in Australia, and in my experience Visor's WIM can drop pretty significantly as mafia if conditions aren't favorable.
As wolfy as it sounds I don't really have a bottom three. I found it kind of hard to pick a lot of people as particularly townie or wolfy D1 and I'd be throwing this list out anyway given w/w wagons.
Choxorn is still highly villagery for me, regardless. I still don't think Atheotes is as wolfy as people say, I don't understand why he is getting so much attention.
For a third, Csargo. Seems weird, but I liked his comments through the night phase.
Might be worth looking at the offwagon voters too, as it is a reasonable chance they are town simply because wolves don't want to be off w/w wagons due to image.
Also probably looks good for the early starters of both wagon, but I worth a look through the progression again.
Dp101 - 6 (Bsmith, Choxorn, Kcaz, Lewwyn, Montmorency, Renata)
Al Sipsclar - 5 (Arakhor, Dp101, GHC, Visor, Winston Hughes)
Montmorency - 2 (Atheotes, Al Sipsclar)
Arakhor - 1 (Csargo)
Kcaz - 1 (Sooh)
Renata -1 (Snerk)
That's where we stand. Bussing is more likely at the end of the wagon rather than the start for obvious reasons, though that vote count isn't written in order of vote, sadly.
Atheotes and Al voting together is (IMO) a good look for Atheotes, though I am fairly likely to be biased as I already think he's a villager.
Kinda yolo, but gonna consider the offwagoners off the table for today, so Atheotes, Csargo, Sooh and Snerk are all villagers for this chapter.
So:
BSmith
Visor, Choxorn, Atheotes, Csargo, Sooh, Snerk
Zack, Lewwyn, Monty, Renata, Arakhor, GH, Winston
Time to go digging.
Note Atheotes and Sooh both in his town list and Zack and GH in his scum list. If we subscribe to the godfather theory, it's interesting that both the suggested godfathers (Zack and GH) are in his scum list, whilst the people we suspect for being 'normal' scum are in his cleared list.
Day One
Dp101 - 6 (Bsmith, Choxorn, Kcaz, Lewwyn, Montmorency, Renata)
Al Sipsclar - 5 (Arakhor, Dp101, GHC, Visor, Winston Hughes)
Montmorency - 2 (Atheotes, Al Sipsclar)
Arakhor - 1 (Csargo)
Kcaz - 1 (Sooh)
Renata -1 (Snerk)
Dp bussing Al at this point was a matter of survival, and it seems that Visor was also bussing Al, presumably because he was the inactive one compared to Dp. This was D1, when everything was manic, right up until the deadline.
Day Two
Visor - 6 (Renata, Winston Hughes, GHC, Choxorn, Arakhor, Sooh)
Sooh - 5 (Atheotes, Snerk, Lewwyn, Montmorency, Kcaz)
Lewwyn - 1 (Visor)
Atheotes - 1 (Csargo)
D2 was much less hectic, with the deadline only really pulling in unplaced votes and Visor surprisingly failing to make a vote to defend himself. We still have yet to resolve the Sooh/Atheotes inconsistency, but it looks like that Visor was doomed either way, whether by Sooh bussing him to stay alive or by Atheotes voting for Sooh and causing her to vote Visor instead.
For the record, Renata, I maintain that Visor was acting just like himself on D1, which is when I made your quoted comment. He certainly was not acting like I'd expect him to on D2, which is why I voted for him over the other clear favourite (Sooh).
I did not have wolfy relations with that man.
That's, uh, just cat hair on the pillow!
I'm probably over-posting now, but GH's D1 scum list is still of interest:
atheotes, Arakhor, Visor, maybe Al Sips.
Other than me of course, you're doing fine so far. ~;)
Tinfoil: there are 5 scums because town has a metric feckton of PR abilities :)
I also think Visor was protecting his scummates early today, because bussing doesn't make sense in this spot and Visor wasn't attracting any real suspicion until after people noticed how odd he was acting.
I also highly doubt that any scum were on the Dp wagon day 1, given the scum's pretty clear preference for lynching Al. If they were, they could have easily switched to Al for some made-up reason at EoD (the way GH actually did switch) and try to get some easy town cred for last-second switching to lynch a scum while also getting minor town cred to Visor for also voting Al. Doesn't really change my opinions much, because I already thought Renata and Monty were >99% town anyway and Zack and Lewwyn only slightly less so, but now they're all even more almost sure town.
Also, there were some peek claims, right? Zack said he peeked Winston not corrupted, and someone (I forget who) said they peeked GH not corrupted.
I think most signs point to Sooh as the most likely wolf. If anyone has any incineration spells left, that's who I'd recommend for the target.
Tinfoil: there are 5 scums because town has a metric feckton of PR abilities :)
Possible, but that seems like a very high number for just a 16 player game. I'd say 3rd party roles are far more likely than a 5-man scum team.
I also think that a 5-man scum team could do a better job of keeping votes away from two of their members on day 1.
csargo was the one who peeked gh, iirc
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 00:38
Wow. Well. Talk about low WIM.
First post is me saying I hadn't self-protected. Second post, following, is atheotes claiming a watch on me where he saw only Al Sips. I think the timing of this gives a tiny boost to atheotes telling the truth, because if he's lying about watching me, then my claiming no self-protect has got to give him pause about the staying power of a claim that outside protector was present.
He also had a post prior to these two, which I didn't include, that suggested he was thinking I had self-protected, something that makes sense considering what he claims to have seen.
It's not clearing in at least a couple different ways, but it's a thing that make me feel a bit better about all these Sooh votes right now. I still don't like the idea of Visor wriggling off the hook. I think he's been objectively scummy and I don't want him around gumming up the works any longer than necessary.
In other news, I don't know how Csargo has gone from looking so towny previously to looking so scummy today. Weirdness.
On atheotes and sooh (I should have thought of this earlier; atheotes briefly tangled with a similar possibility after your post):
If atheotes scum and sooh town, then it's as simple as atheotes PIS that Al Sipsclar tried attacking Renata, but without the complementary knowledge that Sooh is what saved her.
It's a real possibility. It's certainly not an ideal move for scum, but as Renata points out atheotes seems to have been fishing for confirmation of self-protection and so may have overplayed his hand with the fake reveal before fully realizing the implications.
Don't treat it as lock-scum though.
For role actions tonight, I'm torn. On one hand, Choxorn, Renata, and myself are top priorities for protection, but even if all of us were protected there are yet more top townies to kill. I don't want people's protects to be exhausted, I don't want to be jailblock-protected (cuz I'm doing stuff), and yet allocating actions to avoid duplicated protections is similarly unproductive.
Altogether, my least-bad recommendation: if people among the top-townies have a bulletproof or invisibility, consider using it. Jailblocks and protects might better be saved for another day (though if you have Bodyguard, and you really want to take one for the team, I suppose that's a less valuable role to commit tonight). Regardless, a clear objective for tomorrow is to get as much info on the actions of Sooh and atheotes as possible. I will let slip that my action tonight will not involve either of the two. I'll reveal what my cast is just before day begins, in case I get killed; this would just be for completeness, since knowing my cast without knowing the result wouldn't help you much mechanically.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 00:39
Complete reads list for N2:
Lock Town
Monty
Choxorn
Renata
High Town
Lewwyn - though Visor's vote on him is interesting, and he should start stepping up more
Zack
Winston
Lean Town
Arakhor - I forgot, but I'm sure it's sound
GH - if anyone has been set up for deep scum by his teammates, it's this guy
Null
Snerk - maybe it's not a good sign that he's still null; considered weak town by Visor
Scummy
Csargo - another weird and light-footed D2 performance; considered high town by Visor
Atheotes - could move down pending; considered top town by Visor
Sooh - could move up pending; considered weak town by Visor, who didn't self-pres onto her
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 00:40
Worst case, atheotes-Sooh was a red herring that Visor subtly encouraged through his actions.
GeneralHankerchief
02-10-2017, 03:30
Monty, you said earlier in the phase that we should talk during the night. Anything on your mind?
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 04:05
More mana more problems? Must be the slow hour.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 04:19
Of the 2016 games I missed, you were mafia in 2, 3P in 1, cult in 1. Without at least reading the mafia-aligned games my meta of you is sorely skewed.
But sucks to 11th-hour studying, I didn't get to be a pre-eminent wizard of my time through diligence and careful labor.
atheotes
02-10-2017, 05:31
Monty....
so Sooh is claiming she protected Renata. chances are she is lying about it. my result is pretty conclusive based on the explanation of the spell.
But the qn of the missing night kill remains. I will look forward to the death write up for tonight.
atheotes
02-10-2017, 05:41
It is probably for the best to avoid reading Visor spew right now. He was going down and its all WIFOM.
We are in a good position and there is enough to help us find the remaining scum.
Now, what should i do tonight?
:thinking2:
protect myself from any numbnuts who wants to engulf me in flames? or do some scum hunting even if i may not be alive to get the results? or be an angel to someone who is being mean to me?
Dying at the hands of a vig is of no use i think. hmm...decisions.
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