View Full Version : Small Mafia Game Swords and Sorcery Mafia Without the Swords [Concluded]
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 06:09
It is probably for the best to avoid reading Visor spew right now. He was going down and its all WIFOM.
We are in a good position and there is enough to help us find the remaining scum.
Now, what should i do tonight?
:thinking2:
protect myself from any numbnuts who wants to engulf me in flames? or do some scum hunting even if i may not be alive to get the results? or be an angel to someone who is being mean to me?
Dying at the hands of a vig is of no use i think. hmm...decisions.
Why not track Sooh or something?
atheotes
02-10-2017, 07:02
Why not track Sooh or something?
that was my first thought. But if i am not going to be alive to get the results...:shrug:
at this point, Sooh and myself have to be resolved. And i am not ready to sacrifice my life yet.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 08:36
If Sooh is scum and you are town, why would she kill you of all the options?
atheotes
02-10-2017, 09:03
If Sooh is scum and you are town, why would she kill you of all the options?
Sooh? no. I said i might be targeted by vig spells.
Do someone have a chart of the claims?
It is probably for the best to avoid reading Visor spew right now. He was going down and its all WIFOM.
We are in a good position and there is enough to help us find the remaining scum.
Now, what should i do tonight?
:thinking2:
protect myself from any numbnuts who wants to engulf me in flames? or do some scum hunting even if i may not be alive to get the results? or be an angel to someone who is being mean to me?
Dying at the hands of a vig is of no use i think. hmm...decisions.
Protecting yourself is pretty much a scum claim. You're deep in the POE in a game with a comfortable lead for the town.
Do someone have a chart of the claims?
If you iso Monty you'll find one. I think it was made before Choxorn claimed the vig and before I claimed attempted JK on Monty, but everything else should be there.
atheotes
02-10-2017, 13:27
Protecting yourself is pretty much a scum claim. You're deep in the POE in a game with a comfortable lead for the town.
well, only one of us have to die to resolve this. from my pov either Sooh is lying or there are deeper shenanigans going on.
maybe i should just redirect actions on me to Sooh...yeah. thats it. :yes:
thanks for the suggestion. ~;)
Feel like atheotes is laughing at the thread tbh not that Sooh's complete lack of doing anything is any better.
Feel like atheotes is laughing at the thread tbh not that Sooh's complete lack of doing anything is any better.
atheotes is actually actively participating with a point of view. I'm really not reading it scummy. Sometimes you do just have to laugh.
I mean, Sooh and he has to be resolved, but he's talking about protecting himself?
GeneralHankerchief
02-10-2017, 16:14
Both have things working for and against them.
Just from thread presence, atheotes has more positives (stuff Choxorn mentioned) but also more negatives (weird interaction with Visor D1, etc).
I'm sympathetic towards Sooh's predicament because I recently played an offsite game where I spent the entirety of D1 in a fever haze much like her and ended up being on the defensive for the entire game, but at the same time she's got basically nothing to her name. It sucks if she's town but at the same time 90% of the players are more likely to be innocent and the numbers are what they are.
atheotes
02-10-2017, 18:41
Feel like atheotes is laughing at the thread tbh not that Sooh's complete lack of doing anything is any better.
nah...i am just trying to Sooh flipped so that i can be clear (hopefully)
I mean, Sooh and he has to be resolved, but he's talking about protecting himself?
How is it any different from a self pres vote? Consider the scenario where I am town and have been telling the truth. What would you do? take one for the team? no. It looks like we are in a good position. But it doesnt mean we have won. you saw what happened in the mash at MU. it is important for me to stay alive to do my bit to solve the game.:shrug:
atheotes
02-10-2017, 18:42
Both have things working for and against them.
Just from thread presence, atheotes has more positives (stuff Choxorn mentioned) but also more negatives (weird interaction with Visor D1, etc).
I'm sympathetic towards Sooh's predicament because I recently played an offsite game where I spent the entirety of D1 in a fever haze much like her and ended up being on the defensive for the entire game, but at the same time she's got basically nothing to her name. It sucks if she's town but at the same time 90% of the players are more likely to be innocent and the numbers are what they are.
Please list the negatives that you are talking about. I am interested in the etc. part.
atheotes
02-10-2017, 18:45
I dont think any of the townsfolk have strong man. so i am going to save myself either by protecting myself or redirecting onto Sooh.
You can lynch me if you want, but i get to see the night results and voice my thoughts before i die.
good night and good luck.
Vigs are guaranteed to be town-motivated (not 100% clear in this game obviously, but in the case of shooting atheotes it's pretty damn certain). Lynches are not. That's the difference. Although in a case like this with three wolves dead, lots of probably-clear townies, and a manageable POE, even eating a lynch in your shoes wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
Basically, town win is supposed to trump self-preservation and I'm not seeing that here.
Unless he's a third-party or a jester, the only reason to say something like that within the spirit of the game is to admit to being scum.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 19:57
Wew lad, what a sinister string of posts
I thought it was normal for doctors not to be allowed to protect themselves. This also sounds a lot like Atheotes panicking, for some reason...
Notice
Resolution will possibly be 30 minutes late, stuck taking my kid to a meeting. No posting after :00 at penalty of mana burn and or modkill.
Night two ends in
I thought it was normal for doctors not to be allowed to protect themselves. This also sounds a lot like Atheotes panicking, for some reason...
It is, but there's other ways to keep yourself safe in this game.
Also it doesn't look like panic to me; it looks like "I'm screwed so I may as well enjoy it" troll.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 20:51
That ethereal detachment about Atheotes, though.
Guess I don't have any maybe-final words beyond Sooh and Atheotes except to reiterate that Csargo went down a lot in my estimation day two.
And that I hope this game is as easy as it looks right now because that would be a nice change for me.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 20:59
Night Action: I investigate BSmith's N1 actions.
Final requests:
1. Don't write off GH.
2. Don't lynch Sooh unless there is very good cause. If either of atheotes-Sooh is scum, then beyond what's already explored consider that Sooh chose to reveal a protect on Renata after atheotes had claimed watch on Renata with no attendance by Sooh. All else equal, no other info forthcoming, consider who has more town equity in that timing.
2.a. Also, following the claims list below, it's possible that Lewwyn's redirect from Choxorn to Sooh transferred some effect that caused the failure of Snerk's scan.
2.b. Atheotes has just been so shady, you guys. 'I'm going to say I'm scared of vigs so I'll protect myself instead of performing a clearing action that could convict Sooh, because of course if I live through the night it's because that's how I used my cast and not because I'm mafia myself- sorry I have no other results for you tho! Oh, and if anyone gets scum results on me, it's because I redirected from myself to Sooh!'
2.c. Watch for a scenario in which atheotes pulls out a disruptive claim that guarantees he won't be lynched this coming day. If there are 2 scum left and town is lynched D3, and scum is lynched D4, then deep scum has to last for 3 lynches. There are enough well-regarded townies around for most players to claim plausible survival.
3. Beyond my comments on protective powers, mete out your night actions judiciously now. I suspect that with actions every night, very few townies will have the mana to cast more than one last spell, if even, after N4. And in cases of the former, if the casting reduces mana to 0 that would entail concomitant suicide.
4. Yaassss town slay
Updated list of claims (N1):
Monty: Commuted
Winston: Failed watch on Monty; can multicast
Arakhor: Watched Zack, no visitors
Snerk: Failed scan on Sooh; confirms existence of alignment spell
Zack: Scanned Winston non-corrupt
Lewwyn: Redirected from Choxorn to Sooh
Renata: Jailblocked Montmorency, no success
Atheotes: Watched Renata, only Al Sipsclar visited
Csargo: Scan ("Detect Corruption") on GH, not corrupt
Sooh: Protected Renata
Choxorn: Vigged Al Sipsclar
Night two ends. No posting. Resolution to follow shortly.
No Posting
As dawn rises for the third time since this ordeal began, the members of the Council strode forth purposely from wherever they had secreted themselves during the night. The success to date has given them hope for their future. None expected that they would manage to find not one, but two of the corrupted without once having to put one of their own through the Ritual of Purification. With the addition of another Corrupted being killed during the first night, the Council was rightfully emboldened.
Still, if the Light and Purification belong to the Council of Mages, so too does the Night belong to Corruption. As you assemble, you notice one person is missing. After a short search, one of you finds his charred corpse laying in a hallway. It appears the kill was conducted shortly after he left his hiding spot for the night. The loss of yet another mage, a man that was well known by all cut into their satisfaction for the previous day’s work. No one was yet safe and the search must continue, because too much is at stake to get careless.
Atheotes has been killed. He was a Guild Member
Day three has not yet started. No posting until all PM’s are sent and I post acknowledging the game has resumed.
Day three ends in
All PM's are out. Posting may resume.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 21:23
Sheesh.
Good news everyone: on N1, BSmith scanned Winston and detected no corruption.
Atheotes was town after all that posting?? And Sooh is apparently clean too? Huh.
GeneralHankerchief
02-10-2017, 21:24
Pretty sure redirects only work one way, so we either have the Occam's Razor explanation of atheotes lying about his night action, or something weird afoot.
Who killed Atheotes anyway? He was blatant lynchbait, so it makes no sense for the mafia to target him.
I don't know why anyone is surprised at atheotes' flip tbh. I guess if you've never played with him, maybe.
Pretty sure redirects only work one way, so we either have the Occam's Razor explanation of atheotes lying about his night action, or something weird afoot.
Occam's razor would be my peek on sooh was redirected.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 21:25
Pretty sure redirects only work one way, so we either have the Occam's Razor explanation of atheotes lying about his night action, or something weird afoot.
He said he was considering it. He made other suggestions. Night-phase WIFOM.
Interesting. Hard to tell if mafia hit a protection or if it's something like Sooh choosing to godfather herself.
Who wants to out the Atheotes vig?
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 21:25
Occam's razor would be my peek on sooh was redirected.
Doh. yes.
I think it's been well established that I cannot read atheotes.
GeneralHankerchief
02-10-2017, 21:26
Occam's razor would be my peek on sooh was redirected.
Didn't think about that one, Sooh's not off the hook then.
I watched Renata, nobody else targeted her.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 21:29
I don't know why anyone is surprised at atheotes' flip tbh. I guess if you've never played with him, maybe.
Winton Hughes, atheotes wolf team. Maybe Visor. Al spewed town or mafia, depending on your interpretation.
My money's on sooh/atheotes. Visor >rand wolf if he has low wim.
wew lad
All of those were before atheotes' posting yesterday?
GeneralHankerchief
02-10-2017, 21:32
Vote: Sooh
At the heart of the matter there's still the discrepancy between atheotes and Sooh's night actions, and atheotes just flipped town.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 21:39
Hard to believe, two m/m wagons in a row. It could fit in the interpretation of Visor not voting Sooh to self-pres, I suppose, but at that point it's more NAI.
Snerk wouldn't be a bad lynch either.
GeneralHankerchief
02-10-2017, 21:43
Snerk wouldn't be a bad lynch either.
This one post of Snerk's did bother me after EOD2:
We still should have lynched Renata tho
This was after I gave him minor town points for posting something similar after the D1 lynch. Reads to me as more deliberate this time though, and it could be NAI depending on Snerk's general sense of humor.
I also can't in good conscience positively weigh this against the big night action dispute with Sooh/atheotes, but the post is there nonetheless.
No corruption on Sooh.
I don't understand how this is possible...
If Zack is scum, he could fabricate all the "clean" results he wanted and, if I were him, I'd certainly slip in a scum whilst I was at it.
It's unlikely, of course, but still.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 22:07
If Zack is scum, he could fabricate all the "clean" results he wanted and, if I were him, I'd certainly slip in a scum whilst I was at it.
It's unlikely, of course, but still.
It's less likely, now that we know Bsmith scanned Winston uncorrupt (who went on to scan Zack uncorrupt).
Arakhor and Csargo, night actions please.
It's less likely, now that we know Bsmith scanned Winston uncorrupt (who went on to scan Zack uncorrupt).
Arakhor and Csargo, night actions please.
I didn't do anything.
It's less likely, now that we know Bsmith scanned Winston uncorrupt (who went on to scan Zack uncorrupt).
Arakhor and Csargo, night actions please.
Other way around. I scanned Winston.
Stop tinfoiling on me though, it's complete nonsene and annoying to listen to.
Guess I don't have any maybe-final words beyond Sooh and Atheotes except to reiterate that Csargo went down a lot in my estimation day two.
Eh, time is scarce during the week, so my level of participation is low on the priority list really.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 22:13
Other way around. I scanned Winston.
Stop tinfoiling on me though, it's complete nonsene and annoying to listen to.
OK, right - but how did you come by two scans?
OK, right - but how did you come by two scans?
Purchased with mana.
OK, right - but how did you come by two scans?
This is what I was referring to btw. Unless you can pick the spell more than once, but I didn't think that was an option.
GeneralHankerchief
02-10-2017, 22:19
This is what I was referring to btw. Unless you can pick the spell more than once, but I didn't think that was an option.
It was an option for me anyway, you're allowed to purchase any spell the maximum of two times so long as you have enough mana to do so.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 22:21
Purchased with mana.
:stare:
Definitely wasn't an option for me. What is this, like a "Strong" variation?
It was an option for me anyway, you're allowed to purchase any spell the maximum of two times so long as you have enough mana to do so.
Ah, I didn't realize that was an option. Wish I would have known that earlier.
I could purchase any spell as much as I wanted as long as I had the mana for it.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 22:24
Yep, definitely not an option for me. No need for mafia to kill weak old me.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 22:24
I could purchase any spell as much as I wanted as long as I had the mana for it.
How much do you have? Sounds like a lot, and I have well over 10.
See absolutely no reason to answer that question.
I tried to block Lewwyn but it failed, no explanation given me. (terminology was that it "fizzled")
Snerk wouldn't be a bad lynch either.
Fair. I've been on none of the flipped scum wagons and if Sooh is town then I've been wrong about everything except Visor (and that wasn't even a hardlean). Add to that both my spells cast has failed.
My only redeeming hope is that I'm the only one to have scumread Renata. Hence the reiteration of my post lynch joke, GH. Don't be so dramatic.
I didn't know what to do with my action and I changed my mind at least twice, but in the end it seems that either of my first choices would have been better.
Eh, time is scarce during the week, so my level of participation is low on the priority list really.
It wasn't just how much you said, it was what you said.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 23:34
I tried to block Lewwyn but it failed, no explanation given me. (terminology was that it "fizzled")
Fair. I've been on none of the flipped scum wagons and if Sooh is town then I've been wrong about everything except Visor (and that wasn't even a hardlean). Add to that both my spells cast has failed.
My only redeeming hope is that I'm the only one to have scumread Renata. Hence the reiteration of my post lynch joke, GH. Don't be so dramatic.
Snerk has had both attempts at casting fail, one a scan on Sooh when she was allegedly protecting Renata, another a block on Lewwyn when he was <unknown>.
Honestly, I think more likely than not both Sooh and Snerk are being set up.
Scum may be refraining from killing, or building up strength for a concerted attack at the critical moment.
I didn't know what to do with my action and I changed my mind at least twice, but in the end it seems that either of my first choices would have been better.
So, what did you do?
It wasn't just how much you said, it was what you said.
Fair enough. What exactly? Everything?
I didn't do anything.
Why not?
Why not?
Because what I wanted to do was a daytime ability apparently...So I chose to do nothing instead.
Because what I wanted to do was a daytime ability apparently...So I chose to do nothing instead.
So we are in for a treat today?
So we are in for a treat today?
I'm not going to lie, it is tempting, so definitely a possibility. :yes:
So, what did you do?
I targeted Atheotes in an attempt to hinder his spells. Of course, not only was he innocent, he died the same night too.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 23:52
Because what I wanted to do was a daytime ability apparently...So I chose to do nothing instead.
You had no other abilities, or you didn't feel the need to use any other abilities you may have had?
You had no other abilities, or you didn't feel the need to use any other abilities you may have had?
I didn't feel they were particularly useful at this moment in time.
Montmorency
02-10-2017, 23:55
I targeted Atheotes in an attempt to hinder his spells. Of course, not only was he innocent, he died the same night too.
Jailkeep? If roleblock precedes redirect in this game, then Zack's scan on Sooh is valid for Sooh.
Jailkeep? If roleblock precedes redirect in this game, then Zack's scan on Sooh is valid for Sooh.
How are you arriving at this conclusion?
Well Al flipping corrupted changes a lot. I feel less certain of my previous assertions...
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I don't know what to say really...
Is this not exactly how Visor plays as town? He seems normal to me. I thought his argument was interesting at least...
Also, Montmorency I Detected Corruption on someone and they were not corrupted, so unless I got redirected or some other nonsense it should be correct. I'm not gonna say who for obvious reasons unless you guys come after me with the pitchforks...
Some day two posts of Csargo I didn't like.
Jailkeep? If roleblock precedes redirect in this game, then Zack's scan on Sooh is valid for Sooh.
And regardless, lynching Sooh likely sheds a lot of light on the day two wagons, if it doesn't end the game.
No. It's a unique spell effect. I doubt it would have stopped him acting that night, so in retrospect, it was probably a complete waste of my time.
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 00:01
How are you arriving at this conclusion?
If atheotes redirected from himself onto Sooh (though not the kill somehow), then Zack's scan on Sooh would actually be reading atheotes as uncorrupt (which we know from flip).
If roleblock precedes redirect, then atheotes never redirected himself, was killed normally by someone, and Zack scanned Sooh legitimately (barring that awful anti-Zack tinfoil I would never dare to endorse, or to be fair anti-Sooh tinfoil)
It's the scenario that makes the most sense, and it works whatever atheotes' true actions were.
N2 Claims:
Montmorency: Dead scan BSmith, BSmith scanned Winston uncorrupt N1
Zack: Scan Sooh, not corrupt
Choxorn: Watch Renata, no visitors
Csargo: No action
Snerk: Block Lewwyn, attempt failed
Arakhor: Blocked atheotes
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 00:02
Oh. OK, that complicates things. Arakhor, what exactly was the spell effect?
I drained some of his mana, so I know I was able to target him, but I have no idea how much he was affected. As I said, it was a stupid waste of my unique spell. ~:(
It was only a small amount too, so I really shouldn't have bothered. I'm actually annoyed with myself.
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 00:20
I drained some of his mana, so I know I was able to target him, but I have no idea how much he was affected. As I said, it was a stupid waste of my unique spell. ~:(
That's the mana drain spell I mentioned D2.
Jesus, you may have killed him if you put him in negative mana.
And you took away mana from yourself in the process. :(
If atheotes redirected from himself onto Sooh (though not the kill somehow), then Zack's scan on Sooh would actually be reading atheotes as uncorrupt (which we know from flip).
If roleblock precedes redirect, then atheotes never redirected himself, was killed normally by someone, and Zack scanned Sooh legitimately (barring that awful anti-Zack tinfoil I would never dare to endorse, or to be fair anti-Sooh tinfoil)
It's the scenario that makes the most sense, and it works whatever atheotes' true actions were.
N2 Claims:
Montmorency: Dead scan BSmith, BSmith scanned Winston uncorrupt N1
Zack: Scan Sooh, not corrupt
Choxorn: Watch Renata, no visitors
Csargo: No action
Snerk: Block Lewwyn, attempt failed
Arakhor: Blocked atheotes
Unless Sooh did something herself to make herself read town, and that's why there were no kills -- she didn't have the option to do both. Redirecting actions from herself onto a townie, for instance (atheotes would work nicely even), or using a godfather type power.
Some day two posts of Csargo I didn't like.
The first part I tried to explain later on. I don't think I can be more clear.
The second one was because I thought the post was more insulting than constructive, even though he wasn't wrong.
I genuinely thought Visor would have been more voracious in his own defense. I thought given his absence he was town. I was wrong about it though, I'm terrible at this I'm finding.
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 00:52
Unless Sooh did something herself to make herself read town, and that's why there were no kills -- she didn't have the option to do both. Redirecting actions from herself onto a townie, for instance (atheotes would work nicely even), or using a godfather type power.
It turns out Arakhor did something entirely different than RB anyway. We need to hear more claims.
<REDACTED>
Also: if Snerk's actions failed twice against different people, then using the failed scan on Sooh as evidence against her is diminished in standing. Plus it's very unlikely that a Snerk-Sooh team would want to worsen the positions of both in such a weird, pointless way.
And another note of technical confusion that can further muddle our thinking: the role several of us have reported using or knowing of is "redirector", or a power that allows actions against one player to be diverted onto another. However, this seems to fit mafiascum wiki's (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bus_Driver) description of the "Bus Driver", with the redirector role being a counterpart which switches the target's target to whomever is the redirector's choice. You see the difference, active vs. passive, eh? Terminology aside, I wonder whether both abilities are not present in this game.
It turns out Arakhor did something entirely different than RB anyway. We need to hear more claims.
<REDACTED>
Also: if Snerk's actions failed twice against different people, then using the failed scan on Sooh as evidence against her is diminished in standing. Plus it's very unlikely that a Snerk-Sooh team would want to worsen the positions of both in such a weird, pointless way.
And another note of technical confusion that can further muddle our thinking: the role several of us have reported using or knowing of is "redirector", or a power that allows actions against one player to be diverted onto another. However, this seems to fit mafiascum wiki's (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bus_Driver) description of the "Bus Driver", with the redirector role being a counterpart which switches the target's target to whomever is the redirector's choice. You see the difference, active vs. passive, eh? Terminology aside, I wonder whether both abilities are not present in this game.
It's possible.
Redirector switches all actions aimed at player X onto player Y. there is no effect upon actions aimed at player Y to begin with; they still go through as intended.
Bus driver switches all actions aimed at player X onto player Y AND all actions aimed at player Y onto player X.
As far as I know it's up to mod preference as to whether the players whose actions are redirected are aware of it or not.
Atheotes would needed to have next to mana left (on Night 2, no less) for me to have killed him and I doubt I would have killed him in exactly the same way as the incinerate effect. Moreover, that would mean that the scum still haven't successfully killed anyone, all of which being true simultaneously seems very unlikely.
Jabbz said that there would be no bastard options, so I can only assume that if I received PMs saying that no one visited Zack or that I affected Atheotes, I can only assume that that is what actually happened.
(One too many uses of "I can only assume" there.) :wall:
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 01:16
Meh, these permutations probably aren't worth the effort. Lynch her. I guess Snerk is suitable too.
I just really want to confront some grand scheme, not a DOA scum team.
Atheotes would needed to have next to mana left (on Night 2, no less) for me to have killed him and I doubt I would have killed him in exactly the same way as the incinerate effect. Moreover, that would mean that the scum still haven't successfully killed anyone, all of which being true simultaneously seems very unlikely.
It seems likely they were responsible for BSmith's death, actually, unless GH vigged him and isn't telling us, because I think everyone else has already claimed doing something different on Night 1.
No corruption on Sooh.
Man... I just don't believe this. There are too many possible spells she could have cast such as redirect any spells to a villager, or a godfather scan villager spell.
I just self protected last night.
I tried to block Lewwyn but it failed, no explanation given me. (terminology was that it "fizzled")
Why did you try to block me?
Man... I just don't believe this. There are too many possible spells she could have cast such as redirect any spells to a villager, or a godfather scan villager spell.
Yeah it's a definite possibility.
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 03:43
Sooh obviously needs to claim.
Renata, please claim.
Lewwyn's claim confirms Snerk's failure: remember that hiding trumps everything, so any action "fizzles" against it, as Renata did against me N1. What this means for Snerk against Sooh N1...
Vote: Sooh
Today it has to be either Sooh or Csargo.
GH, just tell us your actions already. It's past meta at this point - to brute force or not to brute force is no longer the question. This thing has been blown wide open, and there's no honor in self-handicap to prolong a done deal.
I went back again to look at the wording, and Sooh never really says she protected Renata. But it is clear the only person that she says looks townie is Renata. She says she protects the person she said was most townie during the night = Renata. Atheotes is town, only sees Al Sips (for what we have to assume is a roleblock given renata's spell failing) and no Sooh visiting Renata.
So given what appears to be scum caught in a lie, vs an noncorrupt scan which could have been manipulated. I have to go with the lie. It's just the more simple explanation.
It also makes me glad that I didn't jail atheotes last night like I had originally planned. If I had, he'd be alive and we'd likely be lynching him for "lying".
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 03:47
Vote: Sooh
She confirmed at EOD yesterday. Her biggest saving grace is putting Visor the scum over the edge, but if it's m/m wagons then as I said per Visor's non-self-preservation it's NAI. Still, it's there.
Can confirm Renata.
I understand your reasons, though it's a shame me being sick should determine how I end up this game, but I guess we all have an off game.
I'm going to self-pres this time.
Vote: Visor
Lewwyn's claim confirms Snerk's failure: remember that hiding trumps everything, so any action "fizzles" against it, as Renata did against me N1. What this means for Snerk against Sooh N1...
Ah good. That really makes things even clearer.
I went back again to look at the wording, and Sooh never really says she protected Renata. But it is clear the only person that she says looks townie is Renata. She says she protects the person she said was most townie during the night = Renata. Atheotes is town, only sees Al Sips (for what we have to assume is a roleblock given renata's spell failing) and no Sooh visiting Renata.
So given what appears to be scum caught in a lie, vs an noncorrupt scan which could have been manipulated. I have to go with the lie. It's just the more simple explanation.
It also makes me glad that I didn't jail atheotes last night like I had originally planned. If I had, he'd be alive and we'd likely be lynching him for "lying".
I mean, I thought it was funny because she made SUCH a big deal d1 of me answering her random question obliquely. Then she answers a pretty important question in a vague way.
I noticed the irony as well. :)
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 04:08
I jailkept GH.
Right. WinstonHughes We need your claim, buddy.
So, here's the plan:
1. Lynch Sooh
2. Town? Start over
1. Lynch Sooh
2. Scum, no game end? Csargo and GH are suspect
3. I will jailkeep one of Csargo and GH tonight. Vigs are forbidden. Do not redirect anything from either of them
4. Discuss to take stock of remaining JK, track, watch, and scan powers; specific assignments are a possibility depending what we come up with
N2 Claims:
Montmorency: Dead scan BSmith, BSmith scanned Winston uncorrupt N1
Zack: Scan Sooh, not corrupt
Choxorn: Watch Renata, no visitors
Csargo: No action
Snerk: Block Lewwyn, attempt failed
Arakhor: Manadrain atheotes 'for a low amount'
Lewwyn: Commuted/Invisibility
Renata: Blocked (JK?) Hankerchief
Winston Hughes:
Sooh:
3. I will jailkeep one of Csargo and GH tonight. Vigs are forbidden. Do not redirect anything from either of them
4. Discuss to take stock of remaining JK, track, watch, and scan powers; specific assignments are a possibility depending what we come up with
Do you only want to jail one for investigative purposes, or do you want to jail both?
I have one watch power too.
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 04:14
Do you only want to jail one for investigative purposes, or do you want to jail both?
I have one watch power too.
Right, you have a JK. We could do both. But it would be preferable to couple this with an alignment scan for one of them, if there are any left.
Tracks are cheaper than JK, and jailing one while tracking the other should have a similar effect, right?
GH is going to have a coronary at the mechanical plans. :)
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 04:22
GH is going to have a coronary at the mechanical plans. :)
I'm starting to feel like a Greek god, Greek god. All my network from the front to the back, nod.
https://i.imgur.com/icWiunu.gif
It's not a network, GH. It's an entente.
GH is going to have a coronary at the mechanical plans. :)
Honestly, I think the game is over after we lynch Sooh.
GeneralHankerchief
02-11-2017, 05:26
I'd just like it to be known that - Sooh's lynch pending - the majority of the mafia have been caught by good threadwork, which is the good and right way of going about things.
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 05:39
I'd just like it to be known that - Sooh's lynch pending - the majority of the mafia have been caught by good threadwork, which is the good and right way of going about things.
That's all fine, but the issue is moot at this point.
I'd just like it to be known that - Sooh's lynch pending - the majority of the mafia have been caught by good threadwork, which is the good and right way of going about things.
Which again is the #1 reason why I think Sooh is scum.
GeneralHankerchief
02-11-2017, 05:40
That's all fine, but the issue is moot at this point.
If the issue is moot, then why do I need to claim?
You forgot this: :soapbox:
Was going to say sorry guys for not putting much effort in the last few days because I've been busy, but I spent the last couple hours watching episodes of The Americans so I don't think that excuse really holds up. In fairness, it's an excellent show.
So the new excuse is... Avoiding carpal tunnel? Avoiding nightkills so I can get peeks off? Avoiding the thread because I'm a wolf with no wim? :shrug:
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 05:50
If the issue is moot, then why do I need to claim?
If any information you have relates to actions already discussed, then by leaving that discussion incomplete you create needless obstruction. Things like killing Bsmith, redirects affecting scans or watches, etc. Of course if you defended yourself or did something corroborating another claim, it's not so meaningful.
Also consider that by refusing to engage with claims under these circumstances, you undermine any independent night actions you undertake.
So unless you stand by a principle that night actions in general are evil or to be discouraged, you aren't exactly living up to your game philosophy.
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 05:50
Was going to say sorry guys for not putting much effort in the last few days because I've been busy, but I spent the last couple hours watching episodes of The Americans so I don't think that excuse really holds up. In fairness, it's an excellent show.
So the new excuse is... Avoiding carpal tunnel? Avoiding nightkills so I can get peeks off? Avoiding the thread because I'm a wolf with no wim? :shrug:
Stop tinfoiling Zack, it's such disgusting nonsense.
Stop tinfoiling Zack, it's such disgusting nonsense.
Well, it is. :bounce:
It's not a network if it's in the thread. Or even an entente.
I drained some of his mana, so I know I was able to target him, but I have no idea how much he was affected. As I said, it was a stupid waste of my unique spell. ~:(
So with no vig claims out we can start to assume that Arakhor indeed snuffed Atheotes with this?
It turns out Arakhor did something entirely different than RB anyway. We need to hear more claims.
<REDACTED>
Also: if Snerk's actions failed twice against different people, then using the failed scan on Sooh as evidence against her is diminished in standing. Plus it's very unlikely that a Snerk-Sooh team would want to worsen the positions of both in such a weird, pointless way.
I really can't imagine a five man scum team. Might be somewhat balanced in terms of abilities but in the vote dynamics scum faction would have too much pull. Third faction/SK seems unlikely since there is no trace of it so far.
It's possible.
Redirector switches all actions aimed at player X onto player Y. there is no effect upon actions aimed at player Y to begin with; they still go through as intended.
Bus driver switches all actions aimed at player X onto player Y AND all actions aimed at player Y onto player X.
As far as I know it's up to mod preference as to whether the players whose actions are redirected are aware of it or not.
I didn't know bus driver worked both ways. Must make mental note of it.
It seems likely they were responsible for BSmith's death, actually, unless GH vigged him and isn't telling us, because I think everyone else has already claimed doing something different on Night 1.
The mafia killing BSmith still doesn't make any sense. But I see your point in terms of a lack of a good alternative.
Why did you try to block me?
Why not? Sooh and Atheotes were too obvious targets and suitable vig targets anyway. If the block succeeded and there isno kill, it's a massive scum indication. It failed and thus confirmed your ability which would have been a clear town boosts if there had been a kill. But with no scum kill not much progress was made in that regards.
Sooh obviously needs to claim.
Renata, please claim.
Lewwyn's claim confirms Snerk's failure: remember that hiding trumps everything, so any action "fizzles" against it, as Renata did against me N1. What this means for Snerk against Sooh N1...
Doesn't mean much in terms of my scan on Sooh. That's still unresolved and remains equally suspicious.
What if the scums went into this game with a plain of turning WIFOM up to eleven and consistently targeting scumleans instead of townleans? I.e. BSmith n1 and Atheotes n2?
So with no vig claims out we can start to assume that Arakhor indeed snuffed Atheotes with this?
The major issues with that idea is that mana burn death would have to result in a charred corpse, that the scum struck elsewhere and that he had only a tiny amount of mana on N2 (i.e. a close-to-vanilla character).
Winston Hughes
02-11-2017, 14:31
Just back after a day and a half absent, and while I've scanned the thread, I won't have time to properly catch up until later on today.
Last night I cast two spells:
Watch GH - Renata and Atheotes both visited
Roleblock Snerk
I wonder if atheotes tried to kill him.
Why'd you pick your two targets?
Winston Hughes
02-11-2017, 14:52
Why'd you pick your two targets?
I saw GH as a viable-because-less-obvious target for the scum, and saw Snerk as fairly likely to be scum himself.
Why Snerk instead of Atheotes, Sooh or Csargo?
Winston Hughes
02-11-2017, 14:58
Why Snerk instead of Atheotes, Sooh or Csargo?
Figured other people more likely to be tracking/blocking/somethinging them; it seemed like others were treating Snerk as less suspect than I was feeling him to be.
Winston Hughes
02-11-2017, 15:02
Good enough.
Good enough for what?
Good enough for me to be satisfied with your choices.
GeneralHankerchief
02-11-2017, 15:05
Okay yeah, stop suspecting me.
Hardclaim mason with Renata.
Some of you (Winston) mentioned how Renata's early D1 posts seemed weirdly worded. This was for a reason.
Good afternoon, scumbags and normal people.
Hi Arakahor!
Maybe Dp gets a hi, maybe not. Depends if he's a scumbag.
A lady doesn't consort with scumbags, that's why.
Silly boy, that was last game. This game I'm a townie.
Over five years since we've played together, I think. How's CFC been treating you?
Nice, lol.
The first letter in each post spells out "GH MASON".
My cover:
Top towns and scums, no particular order:
Towns:
Zack
Renata
Csargo
Snerk
Renata
Zack and Snerk on tone, Csargo is a soul read, Renata's listed twice because she's that townie to me.
Listing Renata twice was no accident. In addition, this was a tell I saw Visor use one time, which meant that an early death for one of us meant it was probably >rand that Visor was mafia.
~~~~~~~~~
Anyway, I'm still not going to divulge my night activities other than the fact that they were low-impact.
Confirm. It's been a blast. You're all invited to coffee and donuts in mason chat after the game.
And I could out GH's activities for him but I guess I won't out of respect. He's correct that they have no impact I can think of at this point on anything anyone would be interested in.
Oh, and lest anyone be tempted to tinfoil fake-mason shenanigans or something like that at any point despite Jabbz' denial of such vile lies, we were copied on a single sending of the same role PM, with wording stating explicitly that we each know the other to be innocent.
Fair play, Renata! Did it have to look so scummy though?
Csargo, what do you have up your sleve today?
You sound irritated, Snerk.
Lightly miffed, that's all. I'll walk it off.
Fair play, Renata! Did it have to look so scummy though?
Csargo, what do you have up your sleve today?
Not a lot really.
Winston Hughes
02-11-2017, 17:13
Could someone explain the mechanical case against Sooh for me pls, because I feel like I'm missing something.
Could someone explain the mechanical case against Sooh for me pls, because I feel like I'm missing something.
atheotes watched renata n1 and said only al sips visited her. Sooh seems to have implied she visited Renata n1 though.
I think that's the gist of it.
I peeked her as not corrupt last night fwiw.
Could someone explain the mechanical case against Sooh for me pls, because I feel like I'm missing something.
After night one, Atheotes (town) claims to have visited me and seen no one there but Al Sips.
Sooh claims to have protected me, but Atheotes didn't see her.
No obvious explanation exists for why she should have ended up somewhere else, if she's not lying.
GeneralHankerchief
02-11-2017, 17:33
atheotes watched renata n1 and said only al sips visited her. Sooh seems to have implied she visited Renata n1 though.
I think that's the gist of it.
I peeked her as not corrupt last night fwiw.
According to Winston, atheotes visited me and was thus not doing any redirection shenanigans (probably?) so that is a mark in Sooh's favor meaning she would (probably) have to be a Godfather type role if she's scum at all.
They have to have godfather possibility, though. There's no way I can think they don't, with the potential for five or six night one scans on top suspects, probably.
Plus my scan of Sooh n1 failed, and no explanation to that has surfaced as far as I can tell.
And to be clear I mean all of them, probably on a night by night basis like all the other powers I know about.
Winston Hughes
02-11-2017, 21:18
vote: Sooh
Given the potential for redirections, the mechanical stuff both for and against can't be taken as fully reliable.
But with a scum team that seems to have been low on confidence from the start, her in-thread presence (or lack thereof) fits the pattern perfectly.
Winston Hughes
02-11-2017, 21:23
Weak. ~;)
If GH didn't do anything impactful, that means he didn't vig BSmith, then assuming no townies are lying about their N1 actions (which, why would they have), he was the mafia kill N1. I don't know why they would have decided to kill him, but it seems they must have. That or they tried killing someone else and there's a third-party role out there that killed BSmith, but I see no evidence of that.
At this point the only explanation I can possibly come up with for why Snerk's N1 scan on Sooh failed if he's telling the truth about that is one of the mafia jailblocking her without her knowing about it, which would have explained why Snerk couldn't target her and also why atheotes didn't see Sooh target Renata. That would mean Mafia night actions N1 would be:
Al: do something to Renata
Visor/Unknown: Kill BSmith, Jailblock Sooh.
But that's just a totally bizarre set of night actions to use. Why would the mafia Jailblock Sooh on night 1? She barely said or did anything during the day, it would make more sense for them to target someone like Renata, or Monty, or me.
Updated list of claims (N1):
Monty: Commuted
Winston: Failed watch on Monty; can multicast
Arakhor: Watched Zack, no visitors
Snerk: Failed scan on Sooh; confirms existence of alignment spell
Zack: Scanned Winston non-corrupt
Lewwyn: Redirected from Choxorn to Sooh
Renata: Jailblocked Montmorency, no success
Atheotes: Watched Renata, only Al Sipsclar visited
Csargo: Scan ("Detect Corruption") on GH, not corrupt
Sooh: Protected Renata
Choxorn: Vigged Al Sipsclar
GH: Nothing impactful
BSmith (from Monty's deadscan N2): Scanned Winston non-corrupt
Al (From Atheotes' watch): Something targeting Renata
Visor: ???
Updated list of claims (N2):
Montmorency: Dead scan BSmith, BSmith scanned Winston uncorrupt N1
Zack: Scan Sooh, not corrupt
Choxorn: Watch Renata, no visitors
Csargo: No action
Snerk: Block Lewwyn, attempt failed
Arakhor: Manadrain atheotes 'for a low amount'
Lewwyn: Commuted/Invisibility
Renata: Blocked (JK?) Hankerchief
Winston Hughes: Watch GH (Renata and atheotes visited), block Snerk
Sooh: ???
GH: Nothing impactful, was JK'd by Renata anyway
atheotes (from Winston's watch): Something targeting GH
I think at this point the most likely thing is that Sooh is lying about what she did N1 and is scum, because her having some kind of scan immunity seems more likely than anything else. I guess Snerk could always be lying about what he did N1, and I guess I could plausibly see Arakhor or Lewwyn or Csargo lying about something over one of the past two nights, or maybe one of the scum can take multiple night actions like Winston can, but that's about all the reasonable scenarios that I can see.
It's just hard to see most of the thread being mafia at this point. Renata and GH both seem about >99% town at this point, with Monty and Winston just below them. Zack's either town or playing an A++ scum game and doing all sorts of things that make absolutely no sense for him to do if he's scum. I could certainly see Arakhor or Lewwyn being scum, but neither of them seems likely.
At this point I'd say Sooh is probably scum unless she has a really good explanation for what happened night 1 and can show up today and stop acting like a scum with low wim who's resigned to defeat. If not her, lynch Snerk, if not either of them, lynch Csargo.
Vote: Sooh
Sooh was sort of after Zack on day one. I guess if anyone had motivation to block her, Zack did. It's thin though.
Winston Hughes
02-11-2017, 22:26
If GH didn't do anything impactful, that means he didn't vig BSmith, then assuming no townies are lying about their N1 actions (which, why would they have), he was the mafia kill N1. I don't know why they would have decided to kill him, but it seems they must have. That or they tried killing someone else and there's a third-party role out there that killed BSmith, but I see no evidence of that.
Best guess is they were worried about being caught by a watcher or stopped by protection if they went for a more obvious target.
Fits with the low confidence thing.
Winston Hughes
02-11-2017, 22:28
Also possible they had two shots and went safer (BSmith) with one and more risky (Monty) with the other.
GeneralHankerchief
02-11-2017, 22:33
Speaking from personal experience, morale definitely has an impact on kill choices as mafia. After a certain point has been reached (which, IMO, it has and then some for the mafia at this point in the game assuming we're not totally off base) you just want to get a kill, any kill to go through. Hence going with a suboptimal but likely-to-be-unprotected target as we've (potentially) seen here.
Yeah so, it's my birthday today. That's why I haven't been around.
From the looks of it, I don't need to be around either. Your minds are made up. Happy playing the rest of your game.
GeneralHankerchief
02-11-2017, 22:35
Happy birthday, Sooh! :medievalcheers:
Winston Hughes
02-11-2017, 22:47
Happy birthday!
Big pile of votes is a crappy gift, I know, but we also got you these:
https://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll235/WinstonHughes/boxokitteh.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/WinstonHughes/media/boxokitteh.jpg.html)
Ok, I don't care what role Winston has this game. He will not be lynched or murdered! He brought me kittens!!!!!
*dies happy*
A whole box of kittens! That's really going above and beyond. Happy Birthday, Sooh. :)
GeneralHankerchief
02-11-2017, 22:57
Ok, I don't care what role Winston has this game. He will not be lynched or murdered! He brought me kittens!!!!!
*dies happy*
So murdering people is within your capacity to control, eh?
(I kid, I kid sort of, enjoy your weekend!)
I'll vote for Sooh as well, because I'm all out of ideas otherwise. ~:(
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 23:11
You bustards, gg gg :party2:
So murdering people is within your capacity to control, eh?
(I kid, I kid sort of, enjoy your weekend!)
How would you even
never mind.
You're annoying me now.
Have fun analyzing the train on me in order to find the scumbags you guys.
Come on Sooh, if you're really not scum, at least try to convince us to lynch someone else.
Have fun analyzing the train on me in order to find the scumbags you guys.
Nah I think we analyze the train on Visor in that event.
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 23:57
In the case of Sooh flipping town:
1. Go ahead and say Monty, Choxorn, Renata, GH, Winston, and Zack are lock town
2. Csargo top suspect - Lewwyn, please JB him
3. Snerk, Arakhor, what are your remaining powers (e.g. scans, watch/tracks, JB)?
Montmorency
02-11-2017, 23:58
I mean JK.
For the final arrangement of actions, I will probably be tracking someone to ensure compliance.
In the case of Sooh flipping town:
1. Go ahead and say Monty, Choxorn, Renata, GH, Winston, and Zack are lock town
2. Csargo top suspect - Lewwyn, please JB him
3. Snerk, Arakhor, what are your remaining powers (e.g. scans, watch/tracks, JB)?
1. Are you locking all those players town for sake or argument or do you really believe there is zero chance of foul play?
3. Explain why you want to know first. I may have reasons not to indulge in that. Consider the scum play up til now, I might well be targeted, it's not like anybody is going to protect me at this stage. (nor should anybody btw)
Vote: Snerk
Happy b-day Sooh ~:wave:
Revealing what powers I may have left seems a foolish thing to do, especially as no one is doing so. We might as well just hand the scum our spell books if we're all going to do that.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 00:50
1. Are you locking all those players town for sake or argument or do you really believe there is zero chance of foul play?
3. Explain why you want to know first. I may have reasons not to indulge in that. Consider the scum play up til now, I might well be targeted, it's not like anybody is going to protect me at this stage. (nor should anybody btw)
Renata has already been very town since EOD1, and she revealed GH is her mason. Zack scanned Winston town, and BSmith scanned Winston town. This is very strong evidence that Winston is town, that Zack and Winston are not Mafia together, and if Zack were scum alone announcing a town scan result on a townie on D2 with half his team dead wouldn't be so useful. Choxorn has been in his stride throughout the game, and he claims vig against Al Sipsclar.
And I'm me.
Why would announcing your remaining powers get you killed by Mafia, or why would not announcing them avert their kill?
Even if you die, given the town roster and the watches, tracks, and jailkeeps going through, triangulating your killer would not be difficult.
So tell me: you don't seem to have a buyback option for spells, and you've already used a scan and a jailkeep; I assume you still have a watch and a track. Is that right? Is there anything else useful?
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 00:51
Revealing what powers I may have left seems a foolish thing to do, especially as no one is doing so. We might as well just hand the scum our spell books if we're all going to do that.
And how would that help them? The idea is to incapacitate and isolate them tonight (if Sooh is not the end).
Here are my powers, for reference:
Watch
Track
Bodyguard
Jailkeep
Lewwyn has announced his own JK.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 01:21
Lewwyn will jail Csargo. I will track Lewwyn. Arakhor and Snerk need to be scanned, tracked, or watched. No redirects or (other) jailings on anyone mentioned above. No vigs.
Join together and end the tyranny of the Magafia once and for all.
Lewwyn will jail Csargo. I will track Lewwyn. Arakhor and Snerk need to be scanned, tracked, or watched. No redirects or (other) jailings on anyone mentioned above. No vigs.
Join together and end the tyranny of the Magafia once and for all.
Magafia. Heh. Thanks, that brought a genuine laugh.
Neither of you will ever entertain the idea that I'm not scum this game at all. What? Did you think that top 2 trains on D1 and D2 were all 4 scum? Seriously? You're good, but you're not that good. You're lynching me, because I haven't had much of a profile this game. There are reasons for that, but who cares. I'm voting where I believe the scum is, whether it's the final one or not. You can entertain the idea, or you can flat out lynch me and then perhaps entertain the idea if you remember.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 03:28
Why are you voting for Snerk in particular? You don't have opinions on anyone else? Is he scum with Lewwyn somehow?
What? Did you think that top 2 trains on D1 and D2 were all 4 scum? Seriously? You're good, but you're not that good.
That's what the big boss usually says to the team before it's revealed they were the bad guy the whole time.
I don't really have any input into potential night actions right now. It's not something I'm good at. Maybe GH will have some ideas when he comes by.
GeneralHankerchief
02-12-2017, 03:48
I will not assign nor recommend specific night actions for anyone. Everyone should do what they think is right. It's harder for the mafia to predict this way and allows for more ample discussion during the day phases, which is always a good thing for the town.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 03:57
The time for ample discussion is past. The time is here to foreclose on, or at least control to parameters, all possibility of mafia even acting tonight.
Neither of you will ever entertain the idea that I'm not scum this game at all. What? Did you think that top 2 trains on D1 and D2 were all 4 scum? Seriously? You're good, but you're not that good. You're lynching me, because I haven't had much of a profile this game. There are reasons for that, but who cares. I'm voting where I believe the scum is, whether it's the final one or not. You can entertain the idea, or you can flat out lynch me and then perhaps entertain the idea if you remember.
I'd entertain the idea that you're town, but you don't seem to be entertaining the idea that you're town. You're just resigning to being lynched, not even trying to argue your way out of it or say who you think is scummy or who should be lynched instead.
You're acting exactly like I'd expect a mafia to act if they were the last living scum on day 3, the game had been going horribly for them so far, and you were just resigned to defeat.
Up to date tally. Accurate to post 1190.
Sooh – 8 (GHC, Montmorency, Lewwyn, Csargo, Winston Hughes, Renata, Choxorn, Arakhor)
Csargo -- 2 (Kcaz, Snerk)
Snerk -- 1 (Sooh)
Voting History
Arakhor Sooh 1170
Choxorn Sooh 1158
Csargo Sooh 1122
GeneralHankerchief Sooh 1047
Kcaz Csargo 1032
Lewwyn Sooh 1104
Montmorency Sooh 1102
Renata Sooh 1155
Snerk GHC 1130, Csargo 1143
Sooh Snerk 1164
Winston Hughes Sooh 1154
Day three ends in
Renata has already been very town since EOD1, and she revealed GH is her mason. Zack scanned Winston town, and BSmith scanned Winston town. This is very strong evidence that Winston is town, that Zack and Winston are not Mafia together, and if Zack were scum alone announcing a town scan result on a townie on D2 with half his team dead wouldn't be so useful. Choxorn has been in his stride throughout the game, and he claims vig against Al Sipsclar.
And I'm me.
I agree with all of that but a lock is a lock.
Tinfoil on the lot:
Monty: Al and Dp realise they had a rotten opening and decided to wagon a third scum d1 for maximum wifom payoff
Renata: Jabbz made one of the masons scum to balance out the flurry of abilities town has.
GH: Same as Renata but also able to counter a scan against him with godfather/busdriver/whatever
Winston: Godfather, either permanent or just ability used d1. Multicaster, might be shifty.
Zack: He decided to play a more risky scum game than normal and it pays of in tenfold
Choxorn: Al accidentally suicides from casting a dangerous spell or something leaving Chox able to claim a vig on him uncontested. Vigging Al n1 is oddly sharp play, even for Chox.
Why would announcing your remaining powers get you killed by Mafia, or why would not announcing them avert their kill?
Knowing my spell inventory could easily make more more or less attractive as a target. F.ex. let's say I'm using bulletproof. Then I don't want the scum(s) to know.
That said, I'm not necessarily against more spell openness at this stage of the game. Town could gain more from it than that scum(s). Lemme think about it.
Even if you die, given the town roster and the watches, tracks, and jailkeeps going through, triangulating your killer would not be difficult.
Depends, could easily prove tricky. Also, full disclosure, I don't want to die.
So tell me: you don't seem to have a buyback option for spells, and you've already used a scan and a jailkeep; I assume you still have a watch and a track. Is that right? Is there anything else useful?
After picking for first two I each night I gain a seemingly random spell and a seemingly random mana boost. For most of the game I thought this was the same for everybody. Anybody have a similar set-up to mine?
After picking for first two I each night I gain a seemingly random spell and a seemingly random mana boost. For most of the game I thought this was the same for everybody. Anybody have a similar set-up to mine?
Not for me, no. Not even close.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 12:23
Monty: Al and Dp realise they had a rotten opening and decided to wagon a third scum d1 for maximum wifom payoff
Renata: Jabbz made one of the masons scum to balance out the flurry of abilities town has.
Choxorn: Al accidentally suicides from casting a dangerous spell or something leaving Chox able to claim a vig on him uncontested. Vigging Al n1 is oddly sharp play, even for Chox.
Interesting snap judgement on their parts then, scum mason is bastard as hell, and Al, the runner-up wagon, getting vigged makes basic sense in a game with vigs.
Winston: Godfather, either permanent or just ability used d1. Multicaster, might be shifty.
Zack: He decided to play a more risky scum game than normal and it pays of in tenfold
Why don't you track or watch one of them then?
Knowing my spell inventory could easily make more more or less attractive as a target.
Not really. The only spell that might even slightly shift the balance here is a scan, and if you have a scan you should be using it anyway.
F.ex. let's say I'm using bulletproof. Then I don't want the scum(s) to know.
Why would you use bulletproof, then? The idea is to out information-gathering spells and coordinate them. I don't care about your bulletproof/hide, and prefer you don't use them if you could be playing an active role.
After picking for first two I each night I gain a seemingly random spell and a seemingly random mana boost. For most of the game I thought this was the same for everybody. Anybody have a similar set-up to mine?
Are you pulling my leg? Come on. "There will be no opportunities to recharge spells or mana, except for all those bonuses I have given out". Don't I even get a coupon towards future-game purchases?
Why are you voting for Snerk in particular? You don't have opinions on anyone else? Is he scum with Lewwyn somehow?
That's what the big boss usually says to the team before it's revealed they were the bad guy the whole time.
I have my reasons. Idk if there are more scums beyond him, but I'm pretty sure he's it.
I'd entertain the idea that you're town, but you don't seem to be entertaining the idea that you're town. You're just resigning to being lynched, not even trying to argue your way out of it or say who you think is scummy or who should be lynched instead.
You're acting exactly like I'd expect a mafia to act if they were the last living scum on day 3, the game had been going horribly for them so far, and you were just resigned to defeat.
No, I just don't have the energy to fight myself up from this slump.
Can you say why, please.
And I thought Jabbz said specifically there was no way to get mana recharged.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 14:33
Can you say why, please.
And I thought Jabbz said specifically there was no way to get mana recharged.
So far, we've heard:
*Pay more to dual-cast (Winston)
*Buy one, get another same price (Zack, GH)
*Random bonus mana/spell (Snerk)
That's off the top of my head. Maybe it's not an "opportunity to recharge" if it works as an innate or starting trait itself.
The least privilege I can be extended is your lives teamwork.
GeneralHankerchief
02-12-2017, 15:16
I agree with all of that but a lock is a lock.
Tinfoil on the lot:
Monty: Al and Dp realise they had a rotten opening and decided to wagon a third scum d1 for maximum wifom payoff
Renata: Jabbz made one of the masons scum to balance out the flurry of abilities town has.
GH: Same as Renata but also able to counter a scan against him with godfather/busdriver/whatever
Winston: Godfather, either permanent or just ability used d1. Multicaster, might be shifty.
Zack: He decided to play a more risky scum game than normal and it pays of in tenfold
Choxorn: Al accidentally suicides from casting a dangerous spell or something leaving Chox able to claim a vig on him uncontested. Vigging Al n1 is oddly sharp play, even for Chox.
Knowing my spell inventory could easily make more more or less attractive as a target. F.ex. let's say I'm using bulletproof. Then I don't want the scum(s) to know.
That said, I'm not necessarily against more spell openness at this stage of the game. Town could gain more from it than that scum(s). Lemme think about it.
Depends, could easily prove tricky. Also, full disclosure, I don't want to die.
After picking for first two I each night I gain a seemingly random spell and a seemingly random mana boost. For most of the game I thought this was the same for everybody. Anybody have a similar set-up to mine?
Vote: Snerk
I understand that Sooh is the lynch today and I don't disagree with it. But I really don't like this post, it's getting way too tinfoily too early on and it could be Snerk laying early groundwork for otherwise-difficult mislynches further down the line instead of him.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 15:36
Excellent. You and Renata take measures against Snerk, I will handle Csargo.
Re Snerk: There's something about his claim that he was checking me N1 that doesn't add up. I don't think he was trying to check me at all. I think his action was entirely different from that.
Vote: Snerk
I understand that Sooh is the lynch today and I don't disagree with it. But I really don't like this post, it's getting way too tinfoily too early on and it could be Snerk laying early groundwork for otherwise-difficult mislynches further down the line instead of him.
Well this is an interesting reaction. It's almost like I hit a nerve or something. ~:cool:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with riffing on tinfoilage at this stage of the game as long as votes and abilities are put to more down to earth usage.
If I'm scum then the game is lost, trying to set up mislynches of everybody with townsmear would be futile.
Re Snerk: There's something about his claim that he was checking me N1 that doesn't add up. I don't think he was trying to check me at all. I think his action was entirely different from that.
Oh I was checking you out alright! Well, trying to at least.
Re Snerk: There's something about his claim that he was checking me N1 that doesn't add up. I don't think he was trying to check me at all. I think his action was entirely different from that.
Have you clarified your n1 and n2 actions?
Not N2.
N1, protect Renata
N2, vig Atheotes.
If you're still here, can you please offer your full argument on Snerk?
This is probably stupid but I'm tempted to believe Sooh right now. I hadn't thought about it this way before, but her killing atheotes is borderline suicidal if she's last scum standing -- she doesn't want to resolve that either/or situation.
Unless she really is suicidal due to hopelessness of course and this just ends it faster.
The one thing that makes me want to lynch Sooh almost regardless of her alignment is that if shes town the Sooh/Visor wagons all of a sudden become meaningful. Lynching someone else first leaves that day unresolved.
GeneralHankerchief
02-12-2017, 19:18
Nobody's claimed redirect on N2, right?
This is probably stupid but I'm tempted to believe Sooh right now. I hadn't thought about it this way before, but her killing atheotes is borderline suicidal if she's last scum standing -- she doesn't want to resolve that either/or situation.
Unless she really is suicidal due to hopelessness of course and this just ends it faster.
The one thing that makes me want to lynch Sooh almost regardless of her alignment is that if shes town the Sooh/Visor wagons all of a sudden become meaningful. Lynching someone else first leaves that day unresolved.
So you need to lynch me to find out that I'm town, despite my saying I was the one to kill Atheotes because I thought he was lying about watching Renata and not seeing me.
If you're still here, can you please offer your full argument on Snerk?
Fine. I had a BPV from the start of the game. After N1 I was told it was shattered. Then Snerk comes and tells everyone his action on me failed.
Then why on earth don't you claim that and out Snerk as a liar right then? He said he scanned you.
I gues it's possible that Lewwyn's n1 redirection from choxorn to you meant that you ate a bullet that was meant for choxorn. But then that doesn't actually implicate Snerk. And it still doesn't explain why atheotes didn't see you. Unless choxorn also collected a roleblock or something?
To be fair, this actually makes some sense. But it doesn't implicate Snerk. Maybe Csargo -- a green peek is easy enough to fake.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 20:11
The claim of starting with a passive BP that is shattered N1 is too much. Stay the course.
The claim of starting with a passive BP that is shattered N1 is too much. Stay the course.
It's the absolute truth.
I can't make you believe me, but I'm not lying.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 20:18
Do you have any flavor to back that up?
vote: Csargo
Shrug.
:rolleyes:
Up to date tally. Accurate to post 1214.
Sooh – 6 (Montmorency, Lewwyn, Csargo, Winston Hughes, Choxorn, Arakhor)
Csargo -- 2 (Kcaz, Snerk, Renata)
Snerk -- 1 (Sooh, GHC)
Voting History
Arakhor Sooh 1170
Choxorn Sooh 1158
Csargo Sooh 1122
GeneralHankerchief Sooh 1047, Snerk 1199
Kcaz Csargo 1032
Lewwyn Sooh 1104
Montmorency Sooh 1102
Renata Sooh 1155, Csargo 1213
Snerk GHC 1130, Csargo 1143
Sooh Snerk 1164
Winston Hughes Sooh 1154
Day three ends in [/QUOTE]
Do you have any flavor to back that up?
Flavor? You mean in the writeups that Jabbz has been writing? I can't say I read the first one very thoroughly. Also I thought he said they were all for fun and not to be read into?
I knew there was no chance in trying to talk anyone down.
All details about how a player died will be strictly flavor, with the exception of the disclosure of their faction and role.
This is all it says. And no, there's no trace of a botched attack in the N1 writeup.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 20:31
Flavor? You mean in the writeups that Jabbz has been writing? I can't say I read the first one very thoroughly. Also I thought he said they were all for fun and not to be read into?
To start with a passive BP, when it is available to the rest only as as an active purchased power, you must be one extra-special role. Perhaps you are our Grandmaster? No?
You have given no reasoning to explain why Snerk is the scum, other than that you "have your reasons". You have not offered any explanation of why you have been taking your claimed actions or acting the way you have in-thread.
I guess it's because the implication is Snerk shot at her instead of doing whatever else he said he was trying to do. But I don't really see why a town Sooh wouldn't out that immediately and put Snerk under suspicion for it instead of waiting this long.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 20:46
I guess it's because the implication is Snerk shot at her instead of doing whatever else he said he was trying to do. But I don't really see why a town Sooh wouldn't out that immediately and put Snerk under suspicion for it instead of waiting this long.
No account of the events around her, such as how Snerk could correctly deduce that Lewwyn would be hiding N2 (or create an account that would match with this claim).
Townies should not try to pull massive CFDs away from themselves in obscurantism and the absence of stakes.
No, of course not. Why would Town-Sooh try to make Snerk reveal the rest of his connections before outing him? Why would Town-Sooh wait until N3 to attempt to vig him? Makes no sense, right?
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 20:49
What?
I need more than that to respond. What are you "what"-ing about?
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 20:53
I need more than that to respond. What are you "what"-ing about?
Your entire last comment was nonsense with no clear relevance to the situation.
No, of course not. Why would Town-Sooh try to make Snerk reveal the rest of his connections before outing him? Why would Town-Sooh wait until N3 to attempt to vig him? Makes no sense, right?
Not really?
I mean, if I got a red peek on Winston n1 I wouldn't have held onto that for a few days.
Winston Hughes
02-12-2017, 20:56
I mean, if I got a red peek on Winston n1 I wouldn't have held onto that for a few days.
Just long enough to allow me to make a fool out of myself, amIright?
Probably hound you about all of your reads before dropping the bomb.
As sunset approaches it becomes clear that the will of the council has decided that it is Sooh that must face the Trials of Purification. The moment that happens Sooh drops her act of viewing the rest of you as equals, or even worthy of her time. She stares at each of you.
"You are all unworthy of the titles you hold. You snivel and crawl beneath the Archmage, who himself begs for approval for those worthless cowards that cling to leadership. YOU NEED ME. I'm stronger than all of you. I always have been. Even the Archmage himself feared my power. I will submit to your Trials, but when I return I will leave, and if you try to stop me this council will be destroyed."
Somehow you believe her.
Sooh steps up to the podium, haughty disdain clear on her face. For the first time since this horror began, the ritual succeeds without flaw. As it comes to a close Sooh is encased in crystal, where she will reside until the trials pass. Only a fool would believe she would not return, but that would be a problem for another day.
Sooh has been Lynched. She was a
Betrayer. (Serial Killer)
Night three Begins. You may resume Posting.
End of Day Vote Count
Sooh – 6 (Montmorency, Lewwyn, Csargo, Winston Hughes, Choxorn, Arakhor)
Csargo -- 3 (Kcaz, Snerk, Renata)
Snerk -- 2 (Sooh, GHC)
Voting History
Arakhor Sooh 1170
Choxorn Sooh 1158
Csargo Sooh 1122
GeneralHankerchief Sooh 1047, Snerk 1199
Kcaz Csargo 1032
Lewwyn Sooh 1104
Montmorency Sooh 1102
Renata Sooh 1155, Csargo 1213
Snerk GHC 1130, Csargo 1143
Sooh Snerk 1164
Winston Hughes Sooh 1154
Night three ends in
Whelp. That wasn't really on my list of possibilities but I guess I'll take it.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 21:13
Right then. Lewwyn, sound off: jail Csargo?
Renata and GH, Snerk is up to you. Snerk, sort it with them.
Arakhor could use a scan if anyone has one.
GeneralHankerchief
02-12-2017, 21:18
lol
I don't doubt that Sooh did in fact kill atheotes, no reason to claim that if she didn't. She probably also killed BSmith, because what else could she have been doing N1? She certainly wasn't actually protecting Renata.
It certainly makes more sense that she'd kill BSmith than that the mafia would, even if it doesn't really make sense for either of them.
Notice
I will try to get updated spellbooks out before end of night. I underestimated my workload on this setup, so I'm constantly behind :P Feel free to submit your actions, if you were being careful you probably have your setup correct. I also get pinged to my phone every time I get pm'd so I can check them on an individual basis the moment you submit, and will try to respond immediately if something is not matching up between us.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 21:22
She probably expected the Mafia to take on higher-profile targets. Mafia seems to have been taking on no targets. :P
TBH I had a genuine fright minutes before EOD that Sooh was so noncommittal because she had a lynchproof.
So my guess is: Mafia really did shoot at Choxorn night one (redirected to Sooh by Lewwyn), due to Choxorn's skepticism of Al Sips most likely. Sooh killed BSmith. No one was protecting me night one, so Al Sips' visit may have been a roleblock or other non-lethal action.
I think Sooh only gets shot at directly if Zack is the last scum (and maybe not even then) but we're not worrying about that now.
So provisionally Lewwyn is clear mechanically along with Choxorn; GH and I are clear due to mason status, Monty is best provisional clear in the game due to the aborted CFD, followed by Winston with all that Dp stuff day one. Remaining players are just Arakhor, Snerk, Zack, Csargo.
If it's 9-1 right now, 8-1 in morning. Mislynch 7-1, NK 6-1 Mislynch 5-1 NK 4-1 Mislynch 3-1 NK 2-1 LYLO so in an normal game we'd have this locked if all my above clears are correct. Of course, this isn't a normal game and we have more or fewer kills at any time. Any in a really bad world my assumptions are not correct.
My instinct says that vigs in that group of four (I'd prefer Csargo, then Snerk right now) can only help us if anyone has any left. Monty what is the reason you do not want vigs?
Well, I guess that explains the no corruption.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 21:33
So my guess is: Mafia really did shoot at Choxorn night one (redirected to Sooh by Lewwyn), due to Choxorn's skepticism of Al Sips most likely. Sooh killed BSmith. No one was protecting me night one, so Al Sips' visit may have been a roleblock or other non-lethal action.
I think Sooh only gets shot at directly if Zack is the last scum (and maybe not even then) but we're not worrying about that now.
So provisionally Lewwyn is clear mechanically along with Choxorn; GH and I are clear due to mason status, Monty is best provisional clear in the game due to the aborted CFD, followed by Winston with all that Dp stuff day one. Remaining players are just Arakhor, Snerk, Zack, Csargo.
If it's 9-1 right now, 8-1 in morning. Mislynch 7-1, NK 6-1 Mislynch 5-1 NK 4-1 Mislynch 3-1 NK 2-1 LYLO so in an normal game we'd have this locked if all my above clears are correct. Of course, this isn't a normal game and we have more or fewer kills at any time. Any in a really bad world my assumptions are not correct.
My instinct says that vigs in that group of four (I'd prefer Csargo, then Snerk right now) can only help us if anyone has any left. Monty what is the reason you do not want vigs?
Because then it throws the calculations until full reveals the next day - who died from what? Stating vig targets during the night could also lead to wasted vig from targets protecting themselves - better to use jailkeep for that.
I will say this: let me see what I can arrange first, then vigs can use their discretion if necessary. If you're talking about Snerk, do whatever you want with him and call for any help if you need it.
My plans are to focus on Csargo tonight, with Lewwyn's help (and another?). Arakhor could use a scan, as I said. Maybe a track, too. Someone should have a track, right? All we've seen are watches in action. Commit that track power now, people. I will be tracking to ensure that people are doing what they claim.
Day Two end of day vote count:
Visor -- 6(Renata, WInston Hughes, GHC, Choxorn, Arakhor, Sooh)
Sooh -- 5(Atheotes, Snerk, Lewwyn, Montmorency, Kcaz)
Lewwyn -- 1(Visor)
Atheotes -- 1(Csargo)
So that's a bad look for Snerk and an iffy one for Csargo (who was defending Visor at one point). We're not going to speak of what the other living people on Sooh at end of day does to my paranoia.
Masons don't have a vig, probably for balance.
Montmorency
02-12-2017, 21:34
Winston, Choxorn, Arakhor, Zack, are you willing to help?
Winston, Choxorn, Arakhor, Zack, are you willing to help?
I think coordinating actions before night is the best way to help the corrupted mage manipulate them.
Masons don't have a vig, probably for balance.
Did you and GH get the same spellbook?
Day Two end of day vote count:
Visor -- 6(Renata, WInston Hughes, GHC, Choxorn, Arakhor, Sooh)
Sooh -- 5(Atheotes, Snerk, Lewwyn, Montmorency, Kcaz)
Lewwyn -- 1(Visor)
Atheotes -- 1(Csargo)
So that's a bad look for Snerk and an iffy one for Csargo (who was defending Visor at one point). We're not going to speak of what the other living people on Sooh at end of day does to my paranoia.
I thought they were both wolves and didn't much care which was lynched.
Is there an updated night action chart?
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