Small Mafia Game XCOM Mafia [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 5

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 10:09

http://img.archiexpo.com/images_ae/photo-g/55303-6076121.jpg

Looking for counter-indications to my scum lean on Fredwood, from this phase:

So don't make wall posts cus none of you moths read them, because I've cleared like 4 people already, and have said I'd like to clear a few more but have concerns.

I doubt I'll be scum hunting this phase cus you guys are meanies and the last time I scum hunted I was treated like the lady at the Supermarket that starts yelling about the potatoes not being arranged properly.

BRB going to therapist.

"Anybody know a good therapist?"

So had a mod moment. Could the lack of the NK be kind of representative of the XCom game. So much of the game is about setting up the ambush and getting the positioning just right. Maybe they couldn't kill N1, and will have multiple kills on other nights. That's more of a "this would be cool" workshop type thing then really a helpful thing, but it was a thought.

I had the point on DP, (1) but felt the Bart's vote on him cleared DP for that phase and that post was just a bad one.

I also had Csargo as a town lean, (2) and you specifically on your insistence that you were forcing yourself to go to bed but still kept posting. Tonally felt like genuine excitement about the game.

It was a lengthy post where I said them, so formatting the names in bold in big posts is probably advised.

I tend to give more credit to my town reads then my scum reads in general though.

I also posted a bit of a wall after the Jowy flip where I TR a few more.

Also my definition of clearing may be different then yours, my process is more looking for positive then negative, so if I'm mentioning positive leans or even if I say slight leans I'm typically clearing them for that phase.

I did get pinged by Bart and tried something a bit foreign to my playstyle, maybe it contributed to the awkwardness of the interaction, maybe it didn't and Bart is actually scum and I just broken clocked him.

Maybe but at the time you said 0 solving. Semantics aside I was not going to vote for you, CS or DP last phase. I don't see how it's exaggeration, especially with the caveat that I didn't have a lot of reads because Day 1 was a lot of meta analysis that I didn't have enough reference to weigh in on. so from my POV it's rather significant given the both the situation and the nature of most day 1's. So I do think the reverse of what you say about me and exaggeration can be said in regards to you about (3) minimizing a person's contribution.

As for DP, to me as long as Bart is alive, I will not vote for DP. Yes it's not a town read per say, it's a contingent town read I guess.

I wasn't posting my post Jowy flip post as justification I was posting it as reference to what I view as a similar post even after you said I had done 0 solving, why would I ever lynch even my slightest of town leans? I doubt I'll be hardclearing many people this game non-mechanically because this is my first time playing with all of you.

Also, I just like arguing and talking about me. Answering this has less to do with me viewing it as pressure as much as it does with me being full of myself.

Aside from sleep and just buying CIV VI no, not really...I have an eclectic sleep schedule because of my work, so I tend to be active when I am active.

The game state as in what, in regards to other places I've played? P. standard day 1 more meta dependence then usual which is why the low post count (though I could have probably had like 10 more if I broke up my walls). That probably dies down as the game goes on though, which would mean I have more things to post about.

(4) Well it's early? Good position, day 2 and we're only down 1 townie. Why has yet to be seen, I'm going to tinfoil my mod workshop thought though. You're leading the phases but have enough pushback on you so you're not uncontested so it's a balanced domination, which is my preferred scenario. Good amount of info out there to dissect once we get that scum flip.

Well, tbf it's just been me you and novice having a cas q&a sess for the last few hours, so nothing has changed aside from enforcing what I felt. I read the EOD 2 times, probably 3 times while I was compiling my thoughts. I had no interaction or read on Jowwy before he was even voted for. But I'm afraid I'm already suffering from a little group think and would be parroting there, so I'll observe with interest DP's and Novice's threads about that.

Novice has graduated to probably my strongest town read currently. I'm still paranoid about buddying, so that's in the back of my mind when seeing some of his posts. I do feel the effort is genuine and is less likely to be a case of buddying the new guy then Sooh because his content has been high effort this phase.

My plan is to try to get a better read on nulls, primarily Manasi (though I have a feeling that might be a lost cause) and logic, which I think won't be.

Oh and if in regards to you, I don't know I'm at a weird place. I'm still giving you a ton of credit for the tonal read I got earlier, but have concerns about your reads borne out of what I think was an (5) inaccurate representation of mine and possibly a few others

There goes Bart, misrepresenting and conveniently leaving out contradictory data again.

You're really bad at setting up mislynches huh? Literally said I was going to focus on townclearing and not try to scumhunt.

I can tell you one person who I haven't cleared.

I feel better about Sooh, (6) at the very least there's effort in appearing townie which could be exploited. Manasi still is a bit null but I have a feeling she's the queen of null reads. There is the push on Sooh, but the pressure isn't aggressive or confrontational enough to eliminate the possibility of a W/W scenario and just setting up a contrarian IG relationship. So not willing to extrapolate a read on the other based on one's flip.

Winston and Montgomery seem null but have context and content that's been generated, (7) Winston seems to be more analytical of the meta but did self-clear Pizza and Cuth in a concise and specific manner, so giving him pluses.

The Monty interactions have been interesting this phase. Amusing at the very least.

I should have questions, the only ones I have are to someone I'm washing my hands of. So, I'm just kind of blankly staring at the screen currently.

You're literally quoting the reaction test to see Bart's response. (8) I was purposefully exhibiting what I thought was scum behavior to try and read his response for something that felt off to me. There was none, not even a mention and later switched. The reaction, or the lack of one, is the basis for my scum read on him, within the thread the progression should be obvious.

None...I have a tinfoil mod brain theory about trying to incorporate flavor into the game, and think N1 was a ambush set up phase. I'm hoping i'm wrong but it would mean multiple kills in a single night phase.

Ok before I get into what's good about the above, the concerns I still have.

a) "Not going to scum hunt this phase" - mild but real lingering concern. Still, that's bold and I can see how it can be a real thought. It was initially very problematic though.

b) Still feels a bit reachy in terms of "clear" versus "slight town lean". The initial post where claims credit for 3 clears was definitely inaccurate and read hugely scummy to me at the time. However, seeing more of fredwood's process is helping to manage that concern, even if it hasn't vanished.

c) I feel like Fredwood is under-performing what he could be doing as town. He was more engaged in his champs game, but that being said, this is a crappy meta-read. I don't know Fred and he's not matching some of my snap impressions of him, and that's one game, and it's also one unusual game for him. I'd say he's doing about 1/4 of his effort in that game, but it looks similar in style. I did not finish the iso of him because I got extremely tired and I knew at that point the read wouldn't be very accurate. Besides, it's only meant to supplement my impression of his style and methods. Comparing involvement levels to a champs game is a bad metric.

I feel like if he's scum he could be caught by those kinds of tells. So that's where a lot of my general suspicion on him comes from and I have yet to see enough from Fred to do a full reverse to a strong town read. I don't know if I ever clear fredwood non-mechanically.

Being said, here are the counter indicators.

1) That matches what I've seen of his process. I sometimes do something similar, like backing off dp for a phase to see what he does with it, or choosing between pairs until one has flipped. The fact that it seems to be something he does with several people indicates this isn't just something he was pulling out of nowhere. It's probably really part of his actual process. He would then of course know to fake it when wolfing, I'd imagine. But it's a townier process that doesn't make itself apparent at first glance because it's subtle. And at the time, looked like fence-riding which is often scummy.

2) That's a real method I've used before. Basing his read of me off of that specific thing resonates with me as a real process with real weight, not just a scum checking off generically townie things a person does in order to look like they're forming town reads. This is weighty for me.

3) I do that, deliberately. I have to be an especially harsh critic of someone's work when I'm pushing them as a scum-read, because often times, scum mistakes are subtle and I want people to psychologically feel as though they've been caught dead to rights. Sometimes I even believe it because it's a tinfoil. I want to be right, so I'm a bit invested in it.

4) That was the correct feeling a townie should be having. This post might have been my strongest indicator so far that I'm being a dope about Fredwood, if he's town.

5) see (3). Note how he's not using it as an excuse to flip his read of me and push me. It's so easy to fake a case against someone based on such a concern. If I'm scum in Fredwood's slot, I would almost always push the guy in pizza's slot based on misrepresentation accusations, which can convince some people it's scummy, and best of all, gives Fredwood an excuse to leave less spew in case he still dies. Maybe he's got a whole different approach to scumming but I'm expecting scummy behavior here because it's so tempting if he's scum, and I'm not seeing it.

6) Is a townie thought, approach, and phrasing.

7) "Self-clear" X in "concise and specific" ways are two things that ring true to me of what Fredwood-as-town would use as a metric. He can fake this as scum but this, like his read on me, both ring true, because it's a specific thing that resonates with him way more than most things in the game. Instead of a scummy gradient of "This guy's really town, this guy's kinda town, this guy's a little town...." He has a few very specific strong reads and not a smooth gradient at all. That indicates it's more natural and less artificial, to me.

8) Often times I find the "I was reaction testing" thing to be a terrible excuse for explaining actually scummy behavior. By default, I'd be lynching Fredwood here based on that, and the above (a+b+c) concerns. If I was at all interested in causing a mislynch, I could bury Fredwood here in a heartbeat, without any question. He'd be dead as a doornail. If only because I took the time to look for reasons he's townie do I hesitate and ask, is it scummy here? This is tough, but I think it might actually somehow be part of Fredwood's day one process. He got voted by Barto and decided to feel out his accuser. I know I am always interested in the folks that vote me d1. I don't really do reaction testing of the kind where I act deliberately scummy, as I feel that's harmful to the team. But here, I think it's quite plausible this is a real process, and I don't say that often. So that was extremely difficult for me to read as townie. It goes against a ton of experience.

Tl;dr:

Fredwood is not lock town, but has successfully and ably cleared the hurdle, and has cleared the hurdle by more than the minimum.

Fred, if you want me to lock you town, I need more. Make this your second chance at Champs glory, if you feel like investing that much.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 10:10

Next scummy in line:

Vote: Novice

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 10:11

I will roomba the ever living fudgsicles out of this game if people keep engaging.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 10:13

I feel specifically pocketed by Manasi.

I cannot tell if it's because she's scum or if because she's just easily read me town and is also town. It's a bother.

Sooh

06-25-2017, 10:17

Novice?

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 10:46

You're right, that is awkward.

Hi though. How and where do you normally play this game?
The start of novice's bad opening. Should have been followed up with a vote.

Epic. :2thumbsup:
And you just demonstrated enough self-awareness that it's completely NAI. Hugely entertaining, though. :)

This post makes me feel like he knows I'm town, but can't admit it.

You should be careful with irony in multicultural communities...
Telling townies how to play the game is scummy.

How do Night 0's work anyway?
Yes, agreed on both counts.
And if he isn't joking, he's scum because...?
Click for context. Particularly the third line made me feel terrible about novice.

So everybody's awkward, but it means different things?
In consecutive fashion, he's looking for weaknesses or distancing. Too many small suspicions or picking-at questions in a row. Also it seems like he's defaulting to critical impressions of people, not looking for positives.

Then he picks Logic as his target and invests in that. By page 3 and 4. he drops off. So, a flurry of activity which doesn't look very townie to me, is how novice opens the game.

Page 5 puts Jowy as townie and I don't see how he arrived there even if it was right. Of the people who read Jowy, novice's conclusion always felt artificial or PIS. He just said Jowy "felt normal". That's not specific, and he put Jowy as one of his top town reads. Crimson and Jowy were his top 2. Crimson was at that point a gimme read, imo.

The Jowy read is correct, but formulated incorrectly.

I'm going to Vote: Cuthilius for that misrepresentation of Monty, for lack of better ideas.

By now I can tell that novice's impression of the game is mostly critical of like 7 people, and he's struggling to find new town reads that look natural. I'm going to be cruel and say that Jowy was his only town read that wasn't a gimme, and it was formed badly.

He's also deliberately uncharitable in interpretation to most people in the game so far.

For me it's that he's interacting intelligently with the thread. Maybe it shouldn't be alignment indicative, but it's giving me warm fuzzy feelings.

What's so scummy about Jowy?

Not specific enough, and for such a "strong" town read, he should be more convinced of his own read. Even my shitty Champ snap-read had a specific reason I could give. Novice says the behavior of his strongest town read shouldn't be alignment indicative, which is kinda early to be backing off of it.

Instead of finding positives and pushing them convincingly, he trends negative toward too many people and is generic with his positives.

Then his vote on Cuth he's easy to push off of, not grounding himself firmly invested in any scum read.

The pattern so far is that he'd like to have reasons to vote people, not reasons to clear people definitively, and not cases on scums that he fully owns the consequences of responsibly.

Not quite the riposte I was expecting from Jowy, but close enough I suppose.

Actually let me mediate a bit here. Or fuel the fire, we'll see what transpires.

Jowy, explain how your behaviour matches your process. How can you scumread Dp, taunt him as he tries to defend, and then decide that we're done bullying him? What is your agenda?

Seemingly deliberately playing both sides against the middle here. Now his "top town read" is one which he's throwing some pizza-supplied fire at, without voting him.

Actually I get the feeling that Pizza is overreaching a bit.

Both sides against the middle.

I never got the Csargo townread either, not that I'm sure anyone but Pizza has actually townread him? Maybe Champ did?
Apparently he's very towny compared to his history of games.

Not giving his own impression why he thinks Csargo shouldn't be townread and not giving him a scum read either.

champ is suboptimal low-info lynch todayBut oh so satisfying.

Cuth much townier than Novice. Champ townier than novice, tbh.

we're still not doing it
Cuth looks pretty good here especially if Champ/GH is town. He's got no reason at all to buddy the Champ slot or defend it. That slot should be an easy mislynch because it can't defend itself or town clear itself. No offense champ.

Cuth may not know how to read me, the newspaper that says "Pizza gah-zette" is entirely blank, but he looks town this game.

Okay, El Barto: Not much to say, keeping things fun, but his Dp vote really is bad. Both for reasons outlined by Fred, but also because of poor justification, and the timing seems aimed at pushing Dp over the edge.
Looks like buddying dp and Fred and playing both sides against the middle.

Csargo vote is terribad.

Ok, I agree with this.
Vote: Csargo
This is a really limp way of offing Csargo during the best day one Csar has ever had. Click for context, he basically just took Cuth's justifications and ran with it.

It's the scummiest way of killing townies by lynch.

And that puts Csargo in the lead with 3 votes, by the way. The 2-2-2 tally must have been uncomfortable.

And as soon as he does that, he says good night and dips out.

That's Novice's really scummy and not at all a little bit townie day 1.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 10:59

(snips)
Question/analysis task for everyone, really: How did we end up lynching Jowy after Pizza repeatedly promised to vote Dp101?

Why am I the only one who engaged with Fredwood regarding his theories? I think his case on El Barto was perfectly valid, but it seems people are trying to hush it up.
That question should have been directed at me. Instead he's playing to the crowd.

Next, buddying Fredwood, someone I suspected.

Playing people off of each other.

Two townies and a town lean, nice. Waiting for people to go offline and then starting lynch wagons on them is not the best process.
More buddying of Fredwood, and his undercutting is passive-aggressive, just as the rest of his game has been.

After a lot of collective hand-wringing regarding Jowy, you repeat your lame defense of him. Surely you knew he was up for a lynch?
After undercutting me, he's using my own critique of Manasi against her.

He's just being a scummy parrot.

I completely agree with this description also, which is probably what's feeding our paranoia. But there's a strategic difference between scumming like this on day one and in the late game. Early days you generally want to narrow your footprint as scum. (I guess I'm parroting Winston here but whatever.)
He's even self-conscious about being a scummy parrot.

Vote: El Barto
Don't like him brushing off Fredwood, and if Dp is town his behaviour towards Dp on day one is bad also.
Buddying 2 people at once.

That's Novice's day 2.

He should not get a day 3.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 11:02

Teal deer summary for the wall-impaired

1) Terrible opening flurry for reasons stated above.

2) Parrots many people's reasoning so he can hang in the background in plain sight, not be responsible for other people's pushes while supporting them.

3) Buddying

4) Awful process arriving at his "top town read" Jowy for utterly generic reasons, a townread which he then doesn't defend, but helps me attack.

5) Vote Csargo, peace out, using Cuth's justification.

6) Nothing at all townie about him found.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 11:07

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 11:11

I think the 1/4 effort as opposed to champs is accurate, if not completely correct by the percentages. I was tryharding in champs and I'm more casual now, when I nomad I experiment more and try to learn things from the experience. On top of that everyone in champs was in the same boat I was.

To the reaction test, there would be validity to that push if I wasn't the first person to even mention the post and say that it was a test. It was a gamble; I was lucky no one paid attention to it at the time. I will say this was my first significant reaction test, so it's not an existing part of my process.

Snap impression of my wall on novice?

I'm about to call for a Megazord comprised of myself, Barto, Autolycus, and Csargo. I have no idea how many power rangers there are and I had to look up what the term was for the Megazord, but if you wanna be number five let's do this thing.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 11:12

Monty can be the purple one.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 11:15

Snap impression of my wall on novice?

I'm about to call for a Megazord comprised of myself, Barto, Autolycus, and Csargo. I have no idea how many power rangers there are and I had to look up what the term was for the Megazord, but if you wanna be number five let's do this thing.

Before it he was town lean. Have I told anyone in the last 5 minutes how scared I am of buddying (Probably the biggest weakness in my game is being susceptible to it), but I didn't catch the DP buddy. I'll have to do an ISO to see if I can confirm or contradict....if only I knew how to do an ISO here.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 11:17

Go to the gameroom page, click on the number of posts in the thread, it becomes a pop-up listing everyone's post count.

Inside that pop-up, click on the number of posts by the individual. That becomes a search iso for that person for that thread.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 11:17

Also:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hf--Kj5yIqA/UtHv1AFWMvI/AAAAAAAAAgI/z3Te1efnGIY/s1600/dinozord_megazord.jpg

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 11:18

Also why Auto?

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 11:19

Multicultural? We are a multi-species community, not merely a multicultural community. You must be XCOM :P !

Vote:Novice

Because autolynchus voted a scum in 100 percent of his posts so far, making him the best townie in the game.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 11:39

Yeesh, Finished the ISO, you missed the quotes, it looks even worse in some cases. Though in some cases it makes some of your points a little less salient.

(Building a multi-quote, but have to do a few things, should be in an hour so)

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 11:43

Askthepizzaguy- 100
Csargo- 80
Dp101- 60
crimson_snow- 70
Cuthillius- 60
El Barto- 50
Fredwood- 60
Winston- 55
Autolycus- 80 on Novice scum flip
------------------------
Monty (Leaning not scum)
------------------------
Manasi (one of Sooh and Manasi, I think)
Sooh (see above)
------------------------
Logic best of the remaining 4
Champ/GH- give space. Lynch at final 3 if alive.
Bsmith- Too lazy for a town read.
Novice- Too scummy to be town.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 11:44

I threw that together as a snapshot of my current feelings. It's not fancy and it's not in order, I just grabbed people's names from the postcount list.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 11:49

Also I'm going to throw in a Jowwy ISO as well, because so much revolves around whether or not his townie read on Jowwie was legit or not.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 11:54

Also I'm going to throw in a Jowwy ISO as well, because so much revolves around whether or not his townie read on Jowwie was legit or not.

Note the timestamps when you do. It's important to developing such a read.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 12:14

Isoing everyone else again.

Yeah. Sorry about lurking today. I'm on vacation through this weekend so things are a little off. That and I am never that talkative let alone on D1 when there really isn't much solid to go on other than tone and meta analysis, which absent gross incompetence usually isn't indicative. Most of my time is just going to keeping up. But at least the noise ratio is lower this game than other recent D1s. Don't expect much from me the next couple of days.

He's on vacation. Forgot about this.

Ok, will wait until day 3 to attempt to start reading him. Still would have appreciated a check in post if he's following along.

Sorry I called you lazy.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 12:28

I also somehow missed the "unclaim" in my first read-through.
One of the first things that read town to me about Logic, I think it still holds up.

Forum ate my post, so here is the shorter version:

-quoted post here

This pings to me as scummy. I can't put my finger on the "why"

Csargo's "I just wana eat" gif pings to me as scummy.

Dp101 isn't doing himself any favors, but I don't have him as near wolf as you guys do. I think his defensiveness is well within most the town range of most people

Crimson_snow was initially voting for no lynch. Pinged me later with this:

-quoted post here
-quoted post here

While "contrarian" isn't exactly a wolf-tell, it is a bit anti-town.

I was considering placing a vote on the next highest wagon behind DP101, then I saw it was El Barto, being voted on by Fredwood and Crimson snow, and then immediately declined. Fredwood and Crimson Snow I think are much higher wolf candidates than Barto. Not sure who I'm voting for just yet, but I am going to Unvote: Winston Hughes while I am thinking about it.

I liked this post from Logic, still.

Specifically his reasoning for not voting Barto. I also think Logic unvoting Winston at all is townie of him. He could easily get away with skating through the round on that vote, so this is hurdling my expectations well enough.

As I'm finding more townies and as Logic has been absent, he's slid down in town-prob. Still like him more than almost all my nulls but I'm at maybe 45 percent confident now.

novice

06-25-2017, 12:29

Pizza, I'm not playing against the middle, I'm being objective and keeping an open mind. Something I always (try to) do. And I always interrogate people on the slightest of things. You should know this, you saw me play this game from the GM perspective recently. I was all over the place and didn't home in on scum until LyLo. If I haven't found as many town leans as I used to, maybe people are less towny this game.

The Csargo vote was meant specifically to empower Cuth, but he didn't run with it.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 12:40

Monty aside, I've got Manasi, Logic, and Cuth all needing close attention on my read through, plus autolycus looking a fair bit scummier than usual for his quietude, simply because he showed in his champs game that he's capable of so much more.

Think this was an okay spread shot from the game state at the time, even if it's on two of my townies.

Nor would I, but he hit ~60 posts in his one day there iirc, with plenty of good juicy content. Reverting to form here doesn't mean he's scum by any means, but it'd be an easy place to hide if he was.

Could easily vote Auto anytime d1 using such logic and not give away much of his hand if scum.

I only have a two game sample on Jowy iirc - one scum, one town (neither of which I played in, btw) - but I read him correctly in both, and this seems a lot more like the latter.

This was about a year ago, though, so his scum game might well have improved considerably in the meantime.

While not specific specific, this is maybe the best supported Jowy town-read given in the game. The phrasing "his scum game might well have improved" is a particularly townie thing to say.

Vote: Logic

The background is that he was the host of the recent game where I randed a miller-type role, in which I opened with the same hardclaim bit as I opened with here. Discussions around that claim ended up dominating the whole first day, culminating in me getting mislynched, but not before I correctly picked out several townies and scumbags based on their reactions. He and I then spent a while talking about the day's events in dead chat.

In this context, his reaction here looks bad to me. It was like he felt he needed to react in some way, but got caught between playing along with the claim and showing that he knew it wasn't for real.

Then there was Manasi's reaction, which felt like he was giving us both town credit far too cheaply, and made me wonder if he'd got some inside line from scumchat.

And looking at their ISOs - and Manasi's weak (and delayed) response to my question - I'm not seeing any great reason to townread either of them, or to doubt that they might be scumbuddies.

I believe this vote and supporting argument. It's also well-argued and I think Winston is never scum with Manasi or Logic this game. And I think I'm actually leaning Winston over Logic if it ever came down to the two of them. Logic goes, Winston stays.

I'm back and caught up, with a bottle of cognac at hand and a free pass for the morning from my good lady wife.

First take is that pizza is breaking new ground, whatever his alignment. Extreme lucidity, convincing progression, agenda either super-obvious or exceptionally well disguised. The Jowy lynch was terrible in a way that speaks of either genuine misread or remarkably brazen scumming. If this was D4, paranoia would be kicking in hard, but at this stage he looks really good, simply because I can't see why he'd play the early game this way as scum.

Second take is that my suspects from yesterday still look scummy. Neither Logic nor Manasi responded to my suspicions, and neither has broken out to give me that townie goodness I'm looking for.

Third take is that Cuth and Csargo have moved in opposite directions. I really like how Cuth has been posting. If he's faking that flow, then it's very well done. By contrast, Csargo has carried on with the same reactionary bit he started the game with, which is townie enough on the surface, but starts to look a bit weak and easy when there's more substance to engage with.

Solidly presented in every way and quite believable.

This is basically why Winston gets a pass from me for underachieving post-count-wise. The quality of each post is remarkable.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 12:52

So I'll start with Jowy, it's difficult not to read his posts with a towny slant now that he's flipped. But knowing that I read him almost completely null real time helped. My feelings on Jowy post flip pre-iso was that it was a bit of a low info lynch.

Here's what I would think is his best town post

Alright that's a bad move. When you start your wagon with an excuse for when the target flips villa, it probably won't be taking off any time soon. Oh and it's suspicious.

Novice does an ISO of Jowy and does mention this post, but doesn't emphasize it, it's at the end of a long line of other Jowy's post. Maybe he was giving him credit for the whole performance in the thread.

The biggest issue I had with Jowy's ISO is the lack of progression, he self-clears Barto early in the phase, and then with no explanation he's okay with Barto's lynch a couple of hours later. Drastic switches like that should be explained, period, it's a huge pet peeve of mine when townies don't explain drastic shifts in their reads.

Similarly but to a less drastic degree Jowy does it with DP as well. Particularly that post I quoted earlier, was a very good insight and explanation to point out scummy behavior. But he goes to bead and wakes up and decides that DP's now 6th in order of optimal lynches. He mentions that "if we're done bullying DP' but there's no specific reason for the shift on the read. Though he does clarify it a bit later, but it has a tinge of hedging on DP.

So what do I take from this? Pretty much where I was, He's null, but now because he's got things I like and things I don't.

What does this mean in regards to Novice...From a certain perspective, one could say the read is legit.

For me it's that he's interacting intelligently with the thread. Maybe it shouldn't be alignment indicative, but it's giving me warm fuzzy feelings.

What's so scummy about Jowy?

That's his pushback on Pizza mentioning Jowy.

Some ISO'ing of my own then. Jowy just seems to the point, although I see now that he pocketed me nicely with his first few posts.

To the point:

Pocketing me by voting my voter:

Pocketing:

To the point:

To the point:

Mindmeld:

To the point:

These next two post are exactly what I would have been thinking and doing at that point if I has been awake. Well, except I wouldn't have picked Autolycus as an alternative.

To the point:

There's is ISO of Jowy. He repeats To the point 4 times. I'm not in a position to judge Novice's typical ISO behavior, but I've seen higher thought out effort ISO's from him in this game alone...it's why i was giving him some town cred earlier. On top of that, aside from mentioning possible pocketing, he eliminates all the warts from the ISO. There's no mention of Jowy's lack of progression on a number of his reads.

So the conclusion?

There's some room for a legit read on Jowy here. However there's just as much room for representing a town read. If he'd mentioned more of Jowy's problematic points, I'd be inclined to think it was legit. So I can't give him credit for the town read, it's almost null in a wolf or town scenario.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 13:04

As much as I would enjoy roleplaying as the leader of a faction determined to cast out aliens and their evil mind-slave armies from the good old U.S. of A., no.

You were a member of the mafia last game. That's put a bit of a damper on things. Sometimes slow is good.

This and the rest of his page 1 felt iffy to me at the time.

By now, I should have a better handle on things and value that initial impression with a lot less weight.

Oh, so you are trying to be the Devon Banks to my Jack Donaghy.

Day One. Spamming is in the order of business.

Oh, I do love Eddie Izzard.

I hope you have noticed that I am voting for you to be hanged from the neck until you die.

Really? This would diminish our probability of catching any mafia or, indeed, procuring any information.

Redacted edition:

I will hazard a diagnosis of Perfect Information Syndrome.

So you aren't announcing yourself as town?

Second page. Tone is a bad way to read Barto I think. He's comfortable as scum I think. Comfortable enough to be difficult to catch anyway. His meta is the perfect scumminess shield.

Let's quasi-bookmark this for information on El Pizzahombre.

Yes? Hello there, ma'am. What a nice… hat you have.

Third page. I still have no idea if this is really a thing Barto does. It seems off, more organized and planned than I imagine his town game is.

You see…

(!)

FfoS: crimson_snow

Interesting.

I suggest that more lucid minds than mine examine a possible link between Jowy and crimson_snow and rebellious human scum.

1) I will concede that that is an ever-present possibility.
2) We can always get Csargo to bus somebody.
3) I… what? I am a civilised person who eats away from the computer.

Enough is enough.

I would have voted crimson_snow first as a matter of policy, but you do not get to do this and live.

vote: Dp101

4th page, click for context. I like this post for Barto-town specifically because of this highlighted bit.

Townie behavior in general is that he was rattling the cages of several folks with way more posts and townie-reads on them than himself. That's something you want to avoid doing as scum most of the time.

Why are you not voting for him?

Click for context again. This looks like a genuine misread of what Csargo was saying in that post, and that's an easy mistake to make.

@Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=23872): look for the proposed Jowy-crimson_snow link when you return to this forum.

He's only pretending to sleep.

Probably the best post from Barto in the game. This tinfoil is so Barto-y that it defines Bartness. And him pushing it the way he's doing it feels right in his town zone. The comment about me pretending to sleep is also great. He's in a very relaxed place and just spitting truth out.

I can't explain why any better than that, why that comment is great. It's just behavior I don't imagine him doing here as scum, even if he were trying to pocket me.

Maybe he's really trying hard to pocket me.

*jumps in his pocket*

It's nice in there, though.

First log off, then re-read the game.

Your being wrong about something proves you a townie? This is most perplexing.

Townie in tone.

I shouldn't do it but I can't help it, it's too good.

Not on my watch. vote: Jowy

Hah! I *TOLD* you people that he wasn't asleep.

It is meant to be pronounced as [t͡s], actually. It's from the Russian ‘царь’.

Pressure, sir? My vote in these games is always, by definition, a random vote.

Not even I would go to such ridiculous lengths to justify a belated OMGUS-type vote.

Are you admitting to being, as they call it, ‘high’?

Yes, you are.

This 3rd on the wagon vote way less scummy than novice's. Even with Jowy's flip of town. Click for context.

If this is scum his poker face is real good.

Note well: Champ crossposted the 4th vote. It could very well have been the third vote and Barto sniped him by seconds.

Vote: Jowy

I don't have issues with either vote. I don't think Champ had to vote Jowy there if he was scum. It doesn't clear him, I just don't see this as the typical last minute scum move to cap a wagon.

Even if it was, Csargo wouldn't be the one who is scum, of the two. It could be GH-scummy "chaos chaos chaos" and get away with it maneuver, to muddy the waters, coincidentally before Champ got replaced out with the man himself. That's funny to me, in a ha-ha kind of way.

I dunno. I don't think Champ was going to get as much attention before this move as he did after it. Attention's bad, mkay?

Getting sidetracked.

Barto not clear, but looking much better than most of his accusers.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 13:32

hey fred

hey everyone else

happy day 1

....
Jeice:
Errr, Captain... You're here. (https://youtu.be/TKl02m4lkJc?t=308)

Captain Ginyu:
Well, look what the Space-Cat regurgitated.

Goku:
Hey Gohan, hey Krillin, hey Goku.

Manasi and Champ as of this post

with a big disclaimer that those are both pretty thin

Those are interesting choices. But it's 300+ posts in, and I think both of them had strong starts at least.

vote:monty for this and followup

was not super fond, felt like took advantage of longish dp post, not hugely natural feeling

/shrug

Cuth-y reasoning, for sure.

csargo, pizza, jowy all town

cs excellent tone, reads i agree with, feels right during discussion with atpg

pizza fairly similar, agree with csargo that i disagree with pizza on barto

jowy a nice free-flowing game BUT going in the right directions, has a mildly cocksure aura to him that i like

Yeah, I think all of this adds up. I like his strong solid town core as soon as possible in the game, which by then was fairly possible.

It looks like solving to me.

HOWEVER

i also kinda think dp is town

i think he's being pushed for bad reasons, and i like his responses

he's reacting in a towny way, exactly like i'd expect, i think he'd be a bit more deflecting contrasted with some aggressive posts

here it just feels pretty natural

with that in mind i'm not putting aside the option of something like pizza scum ?maybe csargo? in there and possibly another person i townread

as of right now again i do like all of the listed

would most like to lynch monty, curious what you people, including dp, have to say about him

struggling a little to find wolves as of right now which is why i'm sideeying my townreads

but eh we'll see

Believable.

since i said that pivoted a little

i don't know exactly how to feel about him

i'm not a HUGE fan of the dp vote from him, buut at the same time it's gutsy as scum

i have no real idea how to read him in general though

so imo wait until some people around interactions with him flip

or something

and i was actually talking about csargo, not you

sorry

Town-reading this post.

except not even

it's just lazy

Novice scum kinda makes Cuth look very good for this exchange with him. Click for context. I don't think Novice-Cuth has this exchange.

noting, for the record, that novice has never played with me when i was scum

Excellence.

...

i have no idea how you reached this conclusion in any way

Utterly normal response to what I said.

this is the sequence

pizza asks people for townreads

dp gives a longish thought out reply

monty says dp town

when asked why, given the out of "tone"

he seizes it with vigor

monty usually at least provides curt replies with reasoning

here it just feels like

there was a post by town that looked towny

he said man i need to find a towny post that looked towny

so he called the guy who made said post town

and had no real justification for doing so otherwise

like legit i don't doubt that the read is... real

it just feels easy, it feels lazy, he does the "all we've got babe" thing instead of literally anything else

ech

Not fake.

vote:csargo

Not a scum vote.

reassessing, i think he's scummier

in the light of a new day, i dislike his continued push on dp

i'm not mindmelding with him as much or at all now

i think it makes sense from a perspective/gameplay pov as of right now

monty has that strike against him, but it's really not THAT much and i'd still like to hear more from him before considering lynching him in an ideal world

i also am not super fond of people's reasons for townreading csargo, pizza in particular, and think that independently he doesn't have a ton going for him aorn

Not fake.

I think we can stop here.

Cuth just town this game. His process is Cuthy and he's not finding scum pizza this game, as much as he'd like to. That's a nice get if it ever happens.

Sorry to disappoint, Coof.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 13:57

I thought Advent were the new XCOM.

Vote: No Lynch

Are you claiming SK, then?

These two opening posts from Monty feel like signaling to the scum team that he is in fact neutral or third party.

No Lynch is not threatening to scums. It's also not very townie, although crimson also did this for reasons that look off-board-culture-y and most definitely not scum or 3p.

Monty talking about Sk/3p immediately means it's on his mind.

Why I have such a massive neutral/3p read on him, right away. Those first 2 posts.

No death last night means to me that neutral survivor or other third party hostile is likelier than straight up SK.

Under such a metric, he's gotta at least keep an eye out for scums, but his goal isn't necessarily to lynch them off. Just not die from them.

Or maybe he.... holstered as SK. That seems like a super Monty thing to do. Only Monty, really, would ever. :laugh4:

I might do it as SK to claim vig later, but not the way I've played this game. Not by a long shot, or a holstered one. I like to kill the scums too much, too, especially if I have a scum read and I definitely did. Fredwood would be dead today if I was either SK or vig. That seemed really decent at the time.

Unvote; Vote: Pizza

Should be ovbs

Monty behavior.

Scan me.

3p/survivor alone can have godfather powers and/or bulletproof to give them weight comparable to scum team.

As such, a good strategy for such a role would be to ask to be scanned, and hope that the mafia team gets dead or pocketed before they ever wear through the bulletproof vest.

Page 6, a lot of time has elapsed.

To those upset that I haven't shown myself enough, see the last game. The burst in activity around midday leaves me cold.

As of page 6, my impression is this is super-scum Pizza and DP is town. I don't want to antagonize potential scum Pizza, especially with unread content, so I've stayed away from the game for the last day.

If we have 3.5 hours, I guess I can catch up, but whatever.
It sure looks like he's doing what I said he was doing since he's just saying it outright.

He'd be really on the ball if I was scum. And even though I'm not, it still sends the right signals to the right people, and this is not Monty towning it up, I don't think.

Does he have to be non-town? Can he just be weird? You bet. This is Monty we're talking about.

I wouldn't put it past him to act neutral on purpose. Seems like a Monty thing to do.

I've had some experience over the last game, scumming with you twice, once cursing you from the dead town bench, and once working together as town.

What you looked like today is scum Pizza shock-and-awe flitting between a swarm of commitments and evaluations, with intent to confuse the landscape and prime one of any number of future gambits. :shrug:

I'm reading that you have been.

I believe he believes his read. PPSD.

I don't know what I'm doing, so I won't tie it.

If he's town and believes the scumpizza tinfoil, maybe he should be voting against me here. Just think he's a newt or playing as such.

I won't tunnel you, just work with me to find scum. What do you think of DP right now?

Abrupt change of tactics.

Roleblock, bulletproof, MAFIA HOLSTER

But yeah, maybe.

Lol the holster comment. Bulletproof comment tho

I feel like his contributions on day 2 are standard for him, even though this is a non-standard game he's giving.

Neut or Monty townie. Monty is his own alignment, and can live in a town made of tinfoil.

Scum monty? I don't know how his behavior matches a scum game. Maybe it's that bizarre but I don't think so. I think his odds of alignment are neutral highest, 3p/sk next, townie next, mafia lowest.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 14:39

As to Novice's actual ISO.

I think the first handful of posts, even the one's quoted by Pizza are pretty NAI. His first post was in response to me, which was a stupid introduction joke post. Voting there might have appeared as bullying that early in the phase.

His interactions later with Pizza that were referenced in the ISO, and his jab about irony in multicultural settings also feel NAI, I don't think Pizza should be scum reading him for these, or even mentioning, as they clutter up the meat of Pizza's read of Novice.

How do Night 0's work anyway?

Yes, agreed on both counts.

And if he isn't joking, he's scum because...?

This is the first part of Pizza's ISO of novice where he get's down and dirty.

The context really isn't doing it for me, I'd need a further explanation, right now it looks like he's following a thread. Logic voted for someone even though he thought it was a joke. It's not a good reason for a vote IMO, so I could see why he would bring it up, even though I wouldn't at that stage in the game. I agree he wastes a ton of time on his interrogation of Logic and those that comment on the interrogation. Don't think that's indicative as scum on it's own, maybe cumulatively.

Pizza next moves onto Novice voting for Cuth. I diverge on this because the initial push back on Cuth read genuine. I said as much at the time when I read it real time.

Fact checking, that's not what he did, though?

He gives a reason, namely tone - which is all we've got at this point, according to him. Where's the joke?

I think this part of his interaction with Cuth looks good for him (there's a doozy that I'll get to later), the fact that it's misinterpretation of the read hurts the town cred, but not enough to dismiss it.

Thanks. And calling Monty's vote a joke was just shorthand for a vote with minimal justification?

The 3rd time he misunderstood, misread, or mistook something in the Cuth v Monty interaction alone. In fact Novice had to be corrected a number of times during day 1. Don't know what it means, but it's worth noting of a trend.

Where pizza says Novice is playing both sides of the fire is problematic. I think Pizza is assigning too high of a value to Novice's read of Jowy. Novice never locktowned Jowy, and I don't think he ever had a clear favorite townie. In the scenario that Novice is scum he's representing that he's open to changing his read on Jowy.

In a situation where it's Jowy v CS I can understand the CS vote. However Barto did have 2 votes, could have gone there, otherwise his reason voting for CS was very similar to your reason for voting Jowy.

I'll say the way Pizza framed his Day 2 ISO is really bad. The buddying is problematic, but it could just as easily be Pizza exploiting my fear of it as it is Novice exploiting my weakness to it.

Pizza missed the post right before he voted Barto though. My issue with his questioning of Barto, it's a question that Barto has exhibited no intention to answer with any level of sincerity. To keep belaboring the point isn't terribly productive. I don't have the issue with the vote I guess, just the line of questioning. Is that whole vote and read genuine...maybe, but it's also possible that he's a player not familiar with my meta to know that I don't tunnel, especially across multiple phases.

In fairness to him though Pizza left out this question to Manasi, which I liked.

What flip did you think Pizza was waiting up for then?

Granted it wasn't that confrontational, it could be staged to some extent in a W/W scenario, but I still liked it.

Now onto the parts that Pizza left out of his novice ISO. He left out a bit, out of necessity. But there was some positives that were overlooked. There were many times where he said I'm going to ISO X and then came back and posted a snippet, or a confirmation about it and adjusted his reads.

The one that stood out the most was him going back to confirm Pizza's assessment of Champ's entrance to the game, though later he double backed on it and voted Champ siting I believe Jowy's and/or DP's logic about Champ having a good entrance but then bugging off afterwards. So that's the caveat to that whole behavior. There is quiet a big of white-noise questions, which I do a lot as scum to appear to the person I'm asking these questions that I'm engaging them, but for me to read that as AI is projecting because I don't have a reference point to novice.

But to me THIS looks very bad for him, worst thing I found in the ISO that I don't have an explanation for.

I'll probably move my vote after Cuth addresses it.
I like this post by Cuth, the rest seem well within his scum range.

noting, for the record, that novice has never played with me when i was scum

This reads as a genuine slip. Novice is active during this time, and even interacts with Cuth later, but avoids Cuth's statement all together. It is a bit surprising that Cuth didn't pursue this further at the time, but looking at this in the context of novice being scum, it looks rather damning.

I'm not ready to jump down on this and negate the other things about his post, I really want other's, Cuth especially about it, and why he didn't jump on it at the time to get some context.

So all that, what does it mean? Pizza definitely dinged my Town lean of novice all to hell, and I couldn't buff it out. I don't know if I'd go and see he's a scum lean, but I do think he's a lynch candidate. His flip will tell us a lot, especially about Manasi, Pizza, Bart and CS, to a lesser degree about the Champ slot, DP and Cuth.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 14:40

Sorry that took so long, in the middle of it I literally hit a bookmark and lost the whole thing...was much pain in my heart.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 14:43

But to me THIS looks very bad for him, worst thing I found in the ISO that I don't have an explanation for.

This reads as a genuine slip. Novice is active during this time, and even interacts with Cuth later, but avoids Cuth's statement all together. It is a bit surprising that Cuth didn't pursue this further at the time, but looking at this in the context of novice being scum, it looks rather damning.

I'm not ready to jump down on this and negate the other things about his post, I really want other's, Cuth especially about it, and why he didn't jump on it at the time to get some context.

Man screwed that up, that should read I don't want it to negate all my positive reads from the iso, but want other's, especially Cuth, to weigh in on it. (It being if they think it's a slip) and why Cuth didn't pursue this at the time.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 14:52

Snap impression of my wall on novice?

I'm about to call for a Megazord comprised of myself, Barto, Autolycus, and Csargo. I have no idea how many power rangers there are and I had to look up what the term was for the Megazord, but if you wanna be number five let's do this thing.

I have a hard time with you Townclearing Auto for an early joke vote lynch. I agree that Barto is cleared as far as X-COM goes if Novice flips X-COM.

Also, I'm surprised people are saying that Pizza and CS could possibly be W/W, I think the probability that both are wolf are slim, I can buy one being scum.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 14:54

Manasi iso superwall:

Are you claiming wolf, then?

Kind of like this the best out of her opening posts. Probably NAI though.

Townie tone, probably easy for Manasi to fake.

Wolf.

Snap response to dp101's opening is about the same as mine. Mindmeld.

Not really liking the tweaking out from ATPG, but that's a personal thing and not a reads thing, probably almost lock town for now.

Can be pocketing.

Hm, what else.

I think that was a really forced joke by Sooh - it just read as really awkward.

Winston's entrance towny, Logic's reaction also towny.

Manasi-Winston unlikely. Think Sooh-Manasi as a pair unlikely now that time has passed and I've thought about it more.

Waiting for novice to post himself clear, because that's basically what happened in Pokemon.

Manasi-novice possible but this may just be coincidence.

First semi-wolf read would be on Crimson, super weird posting and not a fan of what they're saying.

Surely the voting no lynch was a joke but like..

Seemed to be posted for the sake of posting.

In other news, I need a new avatar. Taking suggestions.

Manasi-crimbo unlikely.

Vote:Manasi

(gif)

Manasi-Csargo goating it up this game, if it were the case. Csargo moreso than Manasi. Unlikely to me.

You/Jowy.

Dunno about that Jowy read but I'll keep looking.

Reread is occuring. I think Novice is slightly towny, but only slightly, and I already know he's capable of that kind of thing. Manasi seems more forced than normal, and the early comment about the difference between neutral and third-party makes me think some kinda anti-town third party role. I am terrible at reading spamposters however, which is why you won't see a Champ read in here. Logic was decent once he stopped spamming, but could do with more posts. Winston objectively towny with his jokey attitude, doesn't feel forced at all. Monty is Monty, I really don't know how to read him, at all. Maybe slight town for doing the same kinda snap read on me that he does every game (or at least, it felt like a snap read last time)? But he does that as scum as well, I dunno. Everyone else needs to post more.

Manasi-dp unlikely.

This is one of the fastest org games I've ever played sos.

Anything worth catching up on? I skimmed through ATPG isos.

Surprising reaction. Kinda iffy.

What is this you're 3rd? Join me at the top.

Manasi-Csargo possible if Csargo is scum somehow here. Strategy is to deliberately blow townies off the board with WIM?

I dunno I think Manasi'd be posting even more if that were the case. :shrug:

Granted, I'm pretty sure that was like 24 hours ago.

Vote: Sooh

Manasi-sooh unlikely. Manasi not going to carry it with a d1 bus. Could be high risk distancing of a less active wolf, to get as much equity out of Sooh-slot as possible. I've done that before several times, it's probably the only reason I'm even tinfoiling this a little.

...and?

i'm not lynching a one poster, and she did leave a legit excuse

Manasi-Cuth unlikely.

I'm not...sure how productive that is going to be.

I'm fully aware my own vote might not be productive either, just there is a difference between Champ's drop off and someone not really posting at all due to real life things.

Manasi-crimbo still looks unlikely.

Vote: Logic

The background is that he was the host of the recent game where I randed a miller-type role, in which I opened with the same hardclaim bit as I opened with here. Discussions around that claim ended up dominating the whole first day, culminating in me getting mislynched, but not before I correctly picked out several townies and scumbags based on their reactions. He and I then spent a while talking about the day's events in dead chat.

In this context, his reaction here looks bad to me. It was like he felt he needed to react in some way, but got caught between playing along with the claim and showing that he knew it wasn't for real.

Then there was Manasi's reaction, which felt like he was giving us both town credit far too cheaply, and made me wonder if he'd got some inside line from scumchat.

And looking at their ISOs - and Manasi's weak (and delayed) response to my question - I'm not seeing any great reason to townread either of them, or to doubt that they might be scumbuddies.

Manasi-winston unlikely.

An excuse that excuses one day of a 48h phase is fine

never coming back is the issue.

K i n d a r i d i c u l o u s i m o

Also COMPLETELY not okay with a Monty lynch.

If we're lynching a low poster, it's gonna be Sooh and not Monty.

Not very comfortable with this post.

Monty def your scumbuddy huh. I see.

Manasi-Csargo showboating if scum together.

Manasi prolly town.

El Barto ehhhhh

Manasi-Sooh can't be mutual bussing. Manasi slot was going for the town creds for bussing Sooh if Sooh-Manasi, I don't think you ever push Manasi back in such a situation. It's really bad if you somehow made it happen. You'll never explain how you lived through to final 3.

So, not pushing back on Manasi makes sense even if both are scum.

Don't think the team is Manasi-Sooh-Novice so I don't like this tinfoil. I think one at most between the two.

Sooh scummier between the two? Still need to look over Sooh again.

You know what his personality is like though. Why are you suddenly jumping on him for being exactly himself?

I think brain is tired, I'm not getting a lean one way or the other here.

Manasi should be a stronger town read from me, and it all feels like how cardboard tastes. Not sure if it's Manasi causing it, or my sucking at reading her.

I thought I completely blew away the Manasi town read last time and it was super pure. Not feeling that here.

Zack plz count it

Vote DP101

Too many sites too many voting formats

This is normal for Manasi. Voting near end of day to explicitly lynch someone is how Manasi towns.

Jowy peeked me he can't be scum.

Don't like this post for reasons already stated. Manasi addressed it, just noting it for thoroughness.

Where did Barto disappear

Manasi-barto maybe? My reads would be pretty terrible to make this happen.

I think I've now mentioned Manasi's name more than anyone else ever has combined. It's frustrating me that I don't have a stronger lean. I should have one by now.

lol atpg/crimson are just clear i cba to read that

The problem is Sooh's "Oh nice guys when you push scum on me I wanna try soooo haaarddd" sarcasm/AtE/plea is not something I see coming from a villager.

Or at least, I don't do it as a villager and I'm bad so it must be a horrible play lol.

Fun.

Feels true enough. I feel like Manasi-scum would be reacting to me by now, like someone swatting at a stinging bee.

I think town Manasi has me town and therefore I'm just invisible to her.

fzzt

But of course.

Noted.

Really? Manasi seems much more focused this game. Last game you were both quite flighty and lolcatty, not just under pressure but overall. Manasi's activity is more grounded in the game course - isn't yours as well?

Hmm. I kind of want to sheep this.

__________________________

Manasi townish with mixed feelings, but I should be doing better at town-reading her. Feels like how I felt toward Zander when he was scum.

Manasi-scum makes a ton of people look amazing though. I think several folks are not scum with Manasi.

Don't feel great about pulling the trigger on that when I have a scummier novice and many more probable options.

Yeah I would like to see Manasi's response to this.

Manasi-novice still not discounted.

My plan is to try to get a better read on nulls, primarily Manasi (though I have a feeling that might be a lost cause) and logic, which I think won't be.

Manasi-Fredwood unlikely, imo.

Holy moly Cuth, that post.

Regarding my lame defense of Jowy, I wasn't paying enough attention to see he was actually on the table for a lynch. Y'all know I'm a very jokey person in game and I thought the peek claim, however horrible misplaced and obviously fake, was a funny thing to ride out.

Mostly a joke between friends I suppose, nothing alignment indicative. I get why people are reading into that tho.

lolmafia
I feel like I'd be getting more pushback if Manasi-scum was correct. Maybe she's just good.

Sooh's iso results just seem like a lot of recap.

Where she does give reads/leans, they seem like.. hesitant, almost?

Fair.

Yes, because town me is always sure of her reads.

This is also quite true.

Vote: Sooh

just gonna keep this here from yesterday

Seems fine.

Glad to see that it didn't matter either way what I did today.

Sooh can post this thought as town easily.

You missed the questions I had in some of them then. Or is it better when it's not just a link but an actual quote? What is it you want exactly?

Best way to find scum-sooh: treat her fairly, give her space to work, take her seriously, encourage her to engage. The more she gives you the more accurate the read. Even if you suspect Sooh, draw her out and see about the depth in her thought. She will not do well with unfair/unjust suspicions as town, and especially not being ignored. Will taint your read of her.

Wait, what? You seemed very present and attentive at end of day. Here are some sample posts:

After a lot of collective hand-wringing regarding Jowy, you repeat your lame defense of him. Surely you knew he was up for a lynch?

Looks like possible distancing, or novice just scum. I can't clear Manasi based on this even if novice flips scum.

I'm back and caught up, with a bottle of cognac at hand and a free pass for the morning from my good lady wife.

First take is that pizza is breaking new ground, whatever his alignment. Extreme lucidity, convincing progression, agenda either super-obvious or exceptionally well disguised. The Jowy lynch was terrible in a way that speaks of either genuine misread or remarkably brazen scumming. If this was D4, paranoia would be kicking in hard, but at this stage he looks really good, simply because I can't see why he'd play the early game this way as scum.

Second take is that my suspects from yesterday still look scummy. Neither Logic nor Manasi responded to my suspicions, and neither has broken out to give me that townie goodness I'm looking for.

Third take is that Cuth and Csargo have moved in opposite directions. I really like how Cuth has been posting. If he's faking that flow, then it's very well done. By contrast, Csargo has carried on with the same reactionary bit he started the game with, which is townie enough on the surface, but starts to look a bit weak and easy when there's more substance to engage with.

Manasi-winston not likely still.

So, some reads cobbled together on gedit:

Manasi is posting too much fluff. See post #858!

snip

I find this line at the bottom of my text file:
Csargo-Manasi-Champ for trio of mafiosi?

Not pushing Manasi hard enough to discount distancing.

I mean if you actually wanted to lynch Dp101 you would have moved your vote. I made it pretty clear throughout D1 what I wanted, and when it became unlikely I sheeped ATPG, because I think he's town. Then I moved back because Manasi voted Dp. I dunno what to say honestly, generally I don't think, and just react. I just figured you were happy with lynching Jowy.

Manasi-Csargo goatest team of all time probably doesn't let Csargo hang with vote switches to dp and hoping for a miracle.

Too goat if so. It's a nice tinfoil and gg if that's the solve. I'm going to stick with likelier and saner scenarios.

This is me tapping out. I lean town slightly on Manasi. I should be reading her much stronger townie though at this stage... but that might be my too high expectations of myself.

If she happened to be scum, look here for partner analysis. It spews too many people town I think, mafia will lose.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 14:56

Sanity break. I can't read any more isos or posts right now. If I can't catch scum and find town given how much info day 1-night1-day 2 has given me, scum deserve it.

It should all be there on paper unless it's Bsmith. Plus I got enough townies that if they were all correct, it should be POE'd out.

Not that confident yet to POE it out. Instead, kill Novice.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 14:57

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 15:11

This is me (https://tenaciousbitch.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/burnt-pizza-2.jpg) right now.

I have a hard time with you Townclearing Auto for an early joke vote lynch. I agree that Barto is cleared as far as X-COM goes if Novice flips X-COM

Something you gotta know about Autolycus is that the first vote he places in any round is often his last.

He doesn't do joke votes. Even if his vote is random, he's fine lynching people on that random vote.

Auto has lower value to a scum team than novice, in my opinion. Novice can push people's minds all around, Auto is just Auto.

My first vote, on d1, unlikely to lynch, always looking for something better, unless they feel like they're slipping hard. Then I push things longer than I normally would.

Novice scum is an Auto town read, solid.

Logic

06-25-2017, 15:15

Logging in for the first time all weekend. Sorry folks, I forgot u had plans. I am caught up to #874, and my only new reads are that I think sooh and cuth might be wolves.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 15:16

So general question to the thread. How many have played with Pizza when he's been a LMS/SK/3rd party or whatever you called it?

Could his genuine scum hunting be genuine but still be 3rd party? Going back through the ISO he's mention 3rd party neutral more then once, so it could be said that it's on his mind subliminally. Leading town and lynching X-COM could explain both the tonal reads I had on him, the actual effort because he enjoys scumhunting and some of his problematic reads from a bad guy perspective.

I'm gonna ahead and throw that tinfoil out there. Unless he has some sort of avoidance or protection someone in that position doesn't make himself that big of a target though.

I have to stay alive if third party, neut, or survivor.

Unless it's capo and I'm likely to have town defending me with some kind of protection ring, I'm going to try to look townie but not too townie.

If it's the situation where I have a ring of protection I will brutalize scums and call their mammas fat because winning that way is way more fun than doing things the timid way, and it's also smart.

If I'm 3p I generally win when scums all die, assuming this is anywhere close to end of game. Neutral survivor same thing, but I probably make townie-looking pushes midgame, not burnout levels of it d1 and d2. Expect me in the top 5 posters but not top by leaps and bounds as neut survivor. And my impact and footprint and uh... machismo? All would be a lot smaller.

Don't know what else to call it. This is my town machismo unless I had guaranteed night protection. I still randed town though.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 15:20

SK sorry. Neut and survivor is almost redundant.

I'd have definitely blasted someone last night with killing power, trying to hit a scum. I would want some kind of town cred to avoid a lynch, even if I don't claim right away, that's a hard claim that saves my ass as vig or sk.

No nightkill, practically guaranteed I'm not SK. Doctors never stop me.

Askthepizzaguy

06-25-2017, 15:22

Stepping away for sanity and for food cooking / eating / relaxing.

I'll be back but not for tons of time this phase.

If you mislynch, do not mislynch inside my town core. A mislynch can be useful if it was someone we'd always have mislynched, but hit a scum today, try hard and make sure that happens.

Don't lynch Auto today. Pretty sure he gets clear with a novice flip.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 15:23

This is me (https://tenaciousbitch.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/burnt-pizza-2.jpg) right now.

Something you gotta know about Autolycus is that the first vote he places in any round is often his last.

He doesn't do joke votes. Even if his vote is random, he's fine lynching people on that random vote.

Auto has lower value to a scum team than novice, in my opinion. Novice can push people's minds all around, Auto is just Auto.

My first vote, on d1, unlikely to lynch, always looking for something better, unless they feel like they're slipping hard. Then I push things longer than I normally would.

Novice scum is an Auto town read, solid.

So he's gonna get that strong a read off like 5 novice posts, and actually land scum...most efficient mafia player ever.

I wouldn't put too much thought into my Tinfoil, I was just trying to think of reasons for the disparity between the two Pizza's I see, I don't think it's very likely.

Logic

06-25-2017, 15:34

Cuth's post #874. It starts out making little sense. His 3rd and 4th paragraphs directly contradict each other.

Sooh is definitely tunneling pizza. Maybe she's roght, but that isn't what is pinging my radar, it's that her posts (all prior to #880, where I am currently reading) don't seem to be as much of a solving, but a rehash, and kinda flimsy arguments on every case she is makinh.
novice can i get back to answer your question in #851 when I am not on a mobile device? I've looked through 3 pages and I can't find the post of yours that I am looking for. I am positive you and Dp101 are not BOTH scum, but I don't remember what post of yours convinced me of that.

Starting in on reading page 12 now...

Logic

06-25-2017, 15:47

I'm pretty sure Winston is town. Post #519 looks really good, even if he is pointing at me. (There, I answered you!)

The only thing I'm worried about is that I may have toed our fates together, because from an outsode perspective, the Miller claim incident could be viewed as a (bad) performance on my part to get a pair of scum townie points.

Logic

06-25-2017, 15:52

Drunk reads ftw.

In vino veritas.

Logic

06-25-2017, 15:56

There goes Bart, misrepresenting and conveniently leaving out contradictory data again.

You're really bad at setting up mislynches huh? Literally said I was going to focus on townclearing and not try to scumhunt.

I can tell you one person who I haven't cleared.

I feel better about Sooh, at the very least there's effort in appearing townie which could be exploited. Manasi still is a bit null but I have a feeling she's the queen of null reads. There is the push on Sooh, but the pressure isn't aggressive or confrontational enough to eliminate the possibility of a W/W scenario and just setting up a contrarian IG relationship. So not willing to extrapolate a read on the other based on one's flip.

Winston and Montgomery seem null but have context and content that's been generated, Winston seems to be more analytical of the meta but did self-clear Pizza and Cuth in a concise and specific manner, so giving him pluses.

The Monty interactions have been interesting this phase. Amusing at the very least.

I should have questions, the only ones I have are to someone I'm washing my hands of. So, I'm just kind of blankly staring at the screen currently.

I don't like this post. This does not feel genuine.

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 16:31

on that note

i think fred is a fairly solid town now

i don't think all of the angles he's pushing are correct or ideal

but he maintains a consistent tone with towny flashes in a way that would be extremely difficult as scum

he feels like he's actually looking for town, and then keeps that same feel up over a prolonged period of time

again, not about methods but more overall feel and consistency

Logic

06-25-2017, 16:33

After reading Pizza's summed up ISO of cuth, I feel less solid about my hesitation on cuth. Still confused by the direct contraction cuth made, but I'm giving it less weight than I previously did.

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 16:33

also a few more things, before i get to the promised meat

as it were

yes, i know

but looking at this in the context of novice being scum, it looks rather damning.

have you ever heard of confirmation bias?

good

don't do it

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 16:34

You missed the questions I had in some of them then. Or is it better when it's not just a link but an actual quote? What is it you want exactly?

Logic

this is post 874

what are you talking about?

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 16:38

i find it super unsettling

that pizza didn't reply to the wall i made at all

moreover, the only MENTIONS he made of it were consistently repeating that I'm wrong on him, though still town, throughout other topics, and once, said that "there was nothing to" that post

now i'm not saying it was a logical deconstruction of his posts with quotes and examples that he could really reasonably respond to in an ideal way

but

idk

maybe i'm hopelessly stuck in a tunnel on town, but I don't think so

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 16:40

maybe i'm hopelessly stuck in a tunnel on town, but I don't think so

said every person hopelessly stuck in a tunnel on town ever

Logic

06-25-2017, 16:40

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 16:41

also a few more things, before i get to the promised meat

as it were

yes, i know

have you ever heard of confirmation bias?

good

don't do it

I know what it is. Why I asked what your take on the interaction. During the ISO i was more likely to confirmation bias him town because he was my strongest town read at that time of pizza's post. You're saying it's NAI?

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 16:47

Ok Fred. Post #1034 tells me you are town, or bussing novice. The former seems far more likely, because I don't think most wolves would parrot Pizza to bus a comrade.

Note: I will probably be voting for novice by the time i am all caught up, but I want to read the whole thread first, and probably novice ISO myself. I still have a question of his his to answer, and I feel that would be the courtueos thing to do before voting for him.

Parrotting? I disagree with quite a bit of Pizza's ISO of Novice. On top of that my biggest red flag of my own ISO of novice wasn't even mentioned by Pizza in his. I still have issue with Pizza but he did make a convincing enough argument to get me re-evaluate and get more input from outside sources.

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 16:48

Logic, when you have a minute free from GIF hunting, I have a question for you in post 82.
asking questions

And how did you weigh the likelihoods of scenarios 2 and 3?
following up on questions

Fact checking, that's not what he did, though?

He gives a reason, namely tone - which is all we've got at this point, according to him. Where's the joke?
following up on things, attacking me, but not continuing using that as justification for too long

Pizza's read on Champ checks out. Champ did start posting immediately and then commented on the night posting rule afterwards.
this is what makes me stop and think the most

look at this

as scum, WHAT MOTIVATION DO YOU HAVE to say that one townie's read on (probably) another townie checks out

this is just

extra points galore for novice

For me it's that he's interacting intelligently with the thread. Maybe it shouldn't be alignment indicative, but it's giving me warm fuzzy feelings.

What's so scummy about Jowy?
he defends JOWY

who was TOWN

from PIZZA

Some ISO'ing of my own then. Jowy just seems to the point, although I see now that he pocketed me nicely with his first few posts.

To the point:

Pocketing me by voting my voter:

Pocketing:

To the point:

To the point:

Mindmeld:

To the point:

These next two post are exactly what I would have been thinking and doing at that point if I has been awake. Well, except I wouldn't have picked Autolycus as an alternative.

To the point:
and then he puts in an insane amount of effort if wolf defending one towny townie from pizza

like, post after post, with ISOs

tell me the motivation for this as scum

because i am not seeing it at all

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 16:51

I know what it is. Why I asked what your take on the interaction. During the ISO i was more likely to confirmation bias him town because he was my strongest town read at that time of pizza's post. You're saying it's NAI?

what?

i'm just saying that your "looking it in the light of him being scum" was unhelpful

my take on the interaction is null to towny

i don't think it was a slip, i don't think the vast majority of things that are called slips are slips, and i think that most people have an idea in their mind of "slips" because they happened to confbias when they saw a scum or two "slip"

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 16:53

Parrotting? I disagree with quite a bit of Pizza's ISO of Novice. On top of that my biggest red flag of my own ISO of novice wasn't even mentioned by Pizza in his. I still have issue with Pizza but he did make a convincing enough argument to get me re-evaluate and get more input from outside sources.

In fact my assessment of Pizza's ISO is pre-parroting Cuth's

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 16:55

what?

i'm just saying that your "looking it in the light of him being scum" was unhelpful

my take on the interaction is null to towny

i don't think it was a slip, i don't think the vast majority of things that are called slips are slips, and i think that most people have an idea in their mind of "slips" because they happened to confbias when they saw a scum or two "slip"

switched to another computer

not to say that slips don't exist

nevertheless

that was not one, he may have misremembered or just assumed my scumrange from playing with me several times as town and hearing pizza talk about my scumrange a couple games back

i don't love it, but it's definitely outweighed by other things in his posting

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 16:57

also one thing i've noticed from reskimming the game to iso novice

pizza has been setting him up as a scumread/lynch this entire game

as well as jowy, rip, and fred

they've been consistently there

my issue with that isn't having consistent scumreads, though they are unusually consistent

my issue is that i believe they're all town

anyway

for anything that's worth

Logic

06-25-2017, 16:57

My plan is to try to get a better read on nulls, primarily Manasi (though I have a feeling that might be a lost cause) and logic, which I think won't be.
Fredwood
Could I get more of an explanation of this, please?

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 16:58

what?

i'm just saying that your "looking it in the light of him being scum" was unhelpful

my take on the interaction is null to towny

i don't think it was a slip, i don't think the vast majority of things that are called slips are slips, and i think that most people have an idea in their mind of "slips" because they happened to confbias when they saw a scum or two "slip"

He said something was in your scum range, but you point out he's never played a game with you as scum.

The interaction is concerning not 100 percent damning, and you yourself thought enough of it to make a note of it. It's why I wanted you to weigh on it specifically.

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 16:59

I don't really trust Novice that much, but his process on Jowy matches what I've seen him do as town. He gives a reason or two to back off the town read, and I think he can fake all this as scum, but if he is scum he's not being caught by any of his behavior toward Jowy, I don't think. It all looks on the level, pretty much.

Pizza

talk me through what changed since this post, please

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 16:59

Fredwood
Could I get more of an explanation of this, please?

What about the null read on you or the process?

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 17:00

He said something was in your scum range, but you point out he's never played a game with you as scum.

The interaction is concerning not 100 percent damning, and you yourself thought enough of it to make a note of it. It's why I wanted you to weigh on it specifically.

given we've played probably about 5 times and people have talked about my scum game itt

it was more of a note than a hey i think this is particularly bad in any way

like

i see where you could come to that conclusion, but by far the easiest answer is just that either he forgot i hadn't been scum in a game with him yet or extrapolated it from my play/what he's heard

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 17:01

given we've played probably about 5 times and people have talked about my scum game itt

it was more of a note than a hey i think this is particularly bad in any way

like

i see where you could come to that conclusion, but by far the easiest answer is just that either he forgot i hadn't been scum in a game with him yet or extrapolated it from my play/what he's heard

Alright cool, thank you.

Logic

06-25-2017, 17:04

What about the null read on you or the process?

Specifically: the reason you think Manasi (would) be a lost cuase, and why I would not be.
Cuthillius: your post was #847, not #874.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 17:07

and then he puts in an insane amount of effort if wolf defending one towny townie from pizza

like, post after post, with ISOs

tell me the motivation for this as scum

because i am not seeing it at all

Are you concerned about this as a defense considering you're also suspecting Pizza?

Like this is what I keep coming back to, I can't effort clear Novice if I can't think of a reason not to effort clear Pizza.

I do agree with your other post about Pizza, and I did mention it during the night chat that it felt like he spent day 1 setting up what he thought would be easy mislynches.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 17:10

Specifically: the reason you think Manasi (would) be a lost cuase, and why I would not be.
Cuthillius: your post was #847, not #874.

Manasi, I have a feeling excels at maintaining a null persona regardless of alignment. While I have a null read on you, I don't think I won't ever get lean on you.

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 17:11

Skimmed to the end, caught up to page 7.

The initial enthusiasm followed by not playing, Crimson described it, IS atypical though.

What made you come around so quickly on this by the way, in post 500 you say:
"You know, I'm actually becoming gradually mroe ok with a Champ lynch. Him just popping in really does not feel that typical of his play."

Are you saying I made a convincing case on Dp101? Where?

Agreed.

Question/analysis task for everyone, really: How did we end up lynching Jowy after Pizza repeatedly promised to vote Dp101?

Why am I the only one who engaged with Fredwood regarding his theories? I think his case on El Barto was perfectly valid, but it seems people are trying to hush it up.

again, this is another thing

he has no motivation to do this as scum

mostly the latter two bits

but he's engaging the thread, trying to get everyone involved, trying to get people to actually read and be immersed in the game

this is plainly something HE DOES NOT NEED TO DO as scum

on a more than basic level

Two townies and a town lean, nice. Waiting for people to go offline and then starting lynch wagons on them is not the best process.

reasonable point that pizza ignores

I thought Dp's posts on Jowy had a natural progression:

(In response to Jowy voting Csargo)

(In response to Champ voting Jowy)

yet again, novice defends a (imo) townie from pizza's pressure

this is a ridiculous amount of white knighting, again, and i see no motivation for it as scum

a couple could potentially be excused as relieving pressure from scum buddies and that'd account for maybe one or two of these

but he has townreads on people that i legitimately think are town and he's consistently defending them, going way above and beyond what he needs to
Yeah I would like to see Manasi's response to this.

This is strangely formulated though, what are you trying to say? It's a little late to cross-examine Jowy, and if Manasi is scum we should lynch her, right?

again, a towny mindset

he's not just AGAINST pizza, though he's been doing a lot of that by this point, but he's actually engaging with him as well, talking through things with him, following up, etc
Wait, what? You seemed very present and attentive at end of day. Here are some sample posts:

After a lot of collective hand-wringing regarding Jowy, you repeat your lame defense of him. Surely you knew he was up for a lynch?

again

following up, pushing scumreads, engaging them, asking questions, probing

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 17:13

[spoiler]
talked about it a bit yesterday, liked a bit of the tonal stuff afterwards

still not sure how i feel about it

i'm at the point where i'm almost sure there's at least one scum in pizza/csargo

but i'm not quite sure there's one scum in pizza/csargo

i think IF csargo is scum there's quite a solid chance of pizza being such along with him, what with his defense and townreading of csargo being to an unusually disproportionate level compared with the rest of the game

like you look around thread and say, yo, who really thinks csargo's town

and that's mostly pizza, but then some people seem to be taking that and running with it because pizza said it

if y'know what i mean

reverse i don't think is NECESSARILY as likely

but

they COULD both be town

i'm just looking around the game nonplussed

if they ARE, then i'd be looking more at barto/sooh/manasi/auto/winston group

if they aren't everything makes more sense buuut at the same time

hrmhrmhrmhrm

i do get the sense that pizza's been misrepresenting people and cases he's talked about in ways that seem ??? as town, but

i don't KNOW the inner workings of his mind

it just seems like he's creating a framework of people and townies and scums and pushing it super aggressively

which could be fine, could be town leading, could be great

but on the whole i'm not too fond of the way he's been going about doing that or reading people to achieve said framework

yesterday when he picks up on jowy, he's all hey i think he's scummy, and then ASKS THE THREAD AT LARGE why they think jowy's town, ignores, gets any people together he can, and today makes lame excuses about "at least he feels good he lynched there"

he frames things like my colored votes in a very odd way

rather than something like "people could have gotten paranoid" he was all "that could have made me tinfoil you and something something GET LYNCHED"

it was completely blowing everything out of proportion in a way that just didn't really make sense

i think the meta arguments are wholly wifom, highly variable and undependable, and a waste of time

anyway, this is where i feel most comfortable today

vote:askthepizzaguy[/quote]

looool

ok so

logic did you just say

that i contradicted myself in the third and fourth lines and that's what you find scummy about this?

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 17:13

lolme

rip formatting

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 17:15

Are you concerned about this as a defense considering you're also suspecting Pizza?

Like this is what I keep coming back to, I can't effort clear Novice if I can't think of a reason not to effort clear Pizza.

I do agree with your other post about Pizza, and I did mention it during the night chat that it felt like he spent day 1 setting up what he thought would be easy mislynches.

for the record

pizza and effort are synonymous

like

he vomits forth paragraphs as any alignment, some of them being pretty good, and just is always in thread and talking

that is what and who he is

pizza is first and foremost an actor, a personality, an entertainer

novice is a different creature

he doesn't do this just for the kicks and grandiose stage value

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 17:16

anyway

didn't specificallyget to the pizza things i was asked for, will do my best later

right now gotta dash

it's been fun

Logic

06-25-2017, 18:06

[spoiler]

looool

ok so

logic did you just say

that i contradicted myself in the third and fourth lines and that's what you find scummy about this?[/QUOTE]

I simply don't get what you are getting at. I'm not sure if you started a case one way, and then changed your mind, or if there is something else entirely that is going over my head.

BUT...
If novice is a wolf, you are doing an awful lot of work to be defending a wolf buddy. I find it unlikely that you are both wolves.

Logic

06-25-2017, 18:08

looool

ok so

logic did you just say

that i contradicted myself in the third and fourth lines and that's what you find scummy about this?

I simply don't get what you are getting at. I'm not sure if you started a case one way, and then changed your mind, or if there is something else entirely that is going over my head.

BUT...
If novice is a wolf, you are doing an awful lot of work to be defending a wolf buddy. I find it unlikely that you are both wolves.

novice

06-25-2017, 18:31

He said something was in your scum range, but you point out he's never played a game with you as scum.

I've hung around here a lot, enough to have an opinion about his scum range.

novice

06-25-2017, 18:33

I simply don't get what you are getting at. I'm not sure if you started a case one way, and then changed your mind, or if there is something else entirely that is going over my head.

How do those two lines you're referring to contradict each other?

Manasi

06-25-2017, 18:35

Wowee you guys are talkative.

I should be around for the rest of the day.

Did Fred call me hopeless wtf?

Skimmed the last two pages and have pretty confident town leans on Fred/Cuth.

Novice isn't understanding the undeniable fact that I'm an airhead.

El Barto is so much quieter this game than I would have ever expected. Might be a scum lean eeeee.

novice

06-25-2017, 18:39

I took the bullet of a three-hour child's birthday party today, so I'm sitting pretty right now.

I just assembled and filled two IKEA wardrobes and five IKEA bookshelves. The birthday party wins though.

Logic

06-25-2017, 18:41

I don't think I have any more time for posting and analysis until about this time tomorrow. I will be reading, but for now I do think novice is the best lynch today.

Vote: Novice

Dp101

06-25-2017, 18:43

Ok, I'm awake now. I feel overall that in the ISO spam phase while I was gone, Cuth came out as towniest, with Pizza as scummiest, and Fred probably town. Maybe I'm just getting pocketed really hard by Novice/Cuth, but I can't recall a single post by either of them that seemed overly-constructed or that I actually disagreed with. Fred has good intentions/tone, even though I disagree with his conclusions he's probably good. Logic still feels excessively null to me, and I don't know how to feel about that. Pizza is IMO agenda pushing with his leaving out of good Novice posts, so Vote: Askthepizzaguy

Logic

06-25-2017, 18:46

talked about it a bit yesterday, liked a bit of the tonal stuff afterwards

still not sure how i feel about it

i'm at the point where i'm almost sure there's at least one scum in pizza/csargo

but i'm not quite sure there's one scum in pizza/csargo

i think IF csargo is scum there's quite a solid chance of pizza being such along with him, what with his defense and townreading of csargo being to an unusually disproportionate level compared with the rest of the game

like you look around thread and say, yo, who really thinks csargo's town

and that's mostly pizza, but then some people seem to be taking that and running with it because pizza said it

if y'know what i mean

reverse i don't think is NECESSARILY as likely

but

they COULD both be town

i'm just looking around the game nonplussed

if they ARE, then i'd be looking more at barto/sooh/manasi/auto/winston group

if they aren't everything makes more sense buuut at the same time

hrmhrmhrmhrm

i do get the sense that pizza's been misrepresenting people and cases he's talked about in ways that seem ??? as town, but

i don't KNOW the inner workings of his mind

it just seems like he's creating a framework of people and townies and scums and pushing it super aggressively

which could be fine, could be town leading, could be great

but on the whole i'm not too fond of the way he's been going about doing that or reading people to achieve said framework

yesterday when he picks up on jowy, he's all hey i think he's scummy, and then ASKS THE THREAD AT LARGE why they think jowy's town, ignores, gets any people together he can, and today makes lame excuses about "at least he feels good he lynched there"

he frames things like my colored votes in a very odd way

rather than something like "people could have gotten paranoid" he was all "that could have made me tinfoil you and something something GET LYNCHED"

it was completely blowing everything out of proportion in a way that just didn't really make sense

i think the meta arguments are wholly wifom, highly variable and undependable, and a waste of time

anyway, this is where i feel most comfortable today

vote:askthepizzaguy

How do those two lines you're referring to contradict each other?
It reads really wishy washy to me. Lime something he can point to when he backtracks.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 18:52

Dp101

06-25-2017, 18:53

Says he disagrees with my conclusions but says things that I concluded. Cuth literally did the same thing.

https://media.giphy.com/media/6FrPhLdvxkphK/giphy.gif

I could have sworn that you were scumreadingn Novice at the end of that, sorry, I really need to reread again when I'm more awake.

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 19:00

Nah I just had questions that I wanted answered, one specifically, it's been cleared up. I did say a Novice lynch would give us the most information of any lynch currently, still not a good lynch.

Voting Pizza means I would have to sheep the meta on the meta of his meta...meta.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/9cd1fc2d3d56924660c18b365631dc0f/tumblr_onr52beSr31qh5brqo1_500.gif

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 19:01

Csargo

06-25-2017, 19:04

Csargo

06-25-2017, 19:05

I'd like to see a complete iso from ATPG before he's inevitably lynched by paranoid people tbh. It'll be useful to me.

Dp101

06-25-2017, 19:08

I need more sweet reads Dp, give them to me. Sooh, Manasi, ect.

I don't think Sooh is teamed with Pizza, but she still seems moderately independently scummy, mostly because it felt like she had an agenda behind her posts more that just letting them develop naturally over time. Manasi is rather null, not enough posts and most of them are pretty bland. I need to reread both of them though, most of their posts are from a while ago. Winston is still strong town for me. GH is pretty meh and awkward, but I don't think that's AI.

Csargo

06-25-2017, 19:09

I don't think Sooh is teamed with Pizza, but she still seems moderately independently scummy, mostly because it felt like she had an agenda behind her posts more that just letting them develop naturally over time. Manasi is rather null, not enough posts and most of them are pretty bland. I need to reread both of them though, most of their posts are from a while ago. Winston is still strong town for me. GH is pretty meh and awkward, but I don't think that's AI.

I'd mostly agree with this assessment. Manasi slight town for me though, only difference.

Logic

06-25-2017, 19:14

The more i read on it, it looks like cuth has been pretty consistently disagreeing with pizza.

Meanwhile, I feel like I have been playing "follow the pizza." I'm agreeing with him far more often than I should be, so I think I am going to read the thread and skip his posts to see if I can form my own opinion based on what everyone else is saying to each other.

And yes, I am aware i need to put in more effort than I did in my last Org game. I will be responding to mentions, so if you need my attention specifically, that is probably the best way to do it.

El Barto

06-25-2017, 19:25

You're literally quoting the reaction test to see Bart's response. I was purposefully exhibiting what I thought was scum behavior to try and read his response for something that felt off to me. There was none, not even a mention and later switched. The reaction, or the lack of one, is the basis for my scum read on him, within the thread the progression should be obvious.
Purposefully behaving as scum? Why would you ever do such a thing?

El Barto, I still haven't seen you explain this: Why did you specifically call Fredwood's attention to your vote on him, but then not follow up his (intentionally scummy, according to him) response afterwards? Instead you moved on to Dp without further comment.
See post #1031 where atpg quotes me
>Day One. Spamming is in the order of business.

I specifically mentioned that I was not to be taken too seriously on Day One. For some reason, Fredwood did.

I like how Manasi's vote is on me and she's ignoring everything I say in the game.
(!)

Novice?
Gotta be careful when allowing Snorwegians into the game.

Snap impression of my wall on novice?

I'm about to call for a Megazord comprised of myself, Barto, Autolycus, and Csargo. I have no idea how many power rangers there are and I had to look up what the term was for the Megazord, but if you wanna be number five let's do this thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wt6XlVob_E

Pizza, I'm not playing against the middle, I'm being objective and keeping an open mind. Something I always (try to) do. And I always interrogate people on the slightest of things. You should know this, you saw me play this game from the GM perspective recently. I was all over the place and didn't home in on scum until LyLo. If I haven't found as many town leans as I used to, maybe people are less towny this game.

The Csargo vote was meant specifically to empower Cuth, but he didn't run with it.
How would Cuthillius have been ‘empowered’?

So all that, what does it mean? Pizza definitely dinged my Town lean of novice all to hell, and I couldn't buff it out. I don't know if I'd go and see he's a scum lean, but I do think he's a lynch candidate. His flip will tell us a lot, especially about Manasi, Pizza, Bart and CS, to a lesser degree about the Champ slot, DP and Cuth.
Do you want to lynch novice just to actually get info? We should be getting around to a consolidated vote, and I have always been supportive of lynching people who vote for me.

Wowee you guys are talkative.

I should be around for the rest of the day.

Did Fred call me hopeless wtf?

Skimmed the last two pages and have pretty confident town leans on Fred/Cuth.

Novice isn't understanding the undeniable fact that I'm an airhead.

El Barto is so much quieter this game than I would have ever expected. Might be a scum lean eeeee.
I am sorry, lass, but I am engaged in exams. Just catching up to the thread every day takes half an hour or even more.

Nah I just had questions that I wanted answered, one specifically, it's been cleared up. I did say a Novice lynch would give us the most information of any lynch currently, still not a good lynch.

Voting Pizza means I would have to sheep the meta on the meta of his meta...meta.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/9cd1fc2d3d56924660c18b365631dc0f/tumblr_onr52beSr31qh5brqo1_500.gif
You insist, then…

Day One. Spamming is in the order of business.

El Barto

06-25-2017, 19:26

Also, why are we not allowed to quote more than 6 posts?

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 19:31

I simply don't get what you are getting at. I'm not sure if you started a case one way, and then changed your mind, or if there is something else entirely that is going over my head.

BUT...
If novice is a wolf, you are doing an awful lot of work to be defending a wolf buddy. I find it unlikely that you are both wolves.

i basically said

at the same time i strongly feel there's a wolf in there and feel like there might not

Logic

06-25-2017, 19:32

Purposefully behaving as scum? Why would you ever do such a thing?
From time to time, I find that it can be a good way to gain information for the rest of town, specifically if you find you aren't very enthused by the game early on. Especially if you play the game with the belief that vanilla townies are expendable (a theory I personally hold myself to, but don't expect it of others.)

I call it a personal win if I am nightkilled, but if I can't manage that, then I at least hope my lynch gains more info for town than my continued presence does. Acting slightly scimmy when you have no reads can sometimes accomplish that.

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 19:32

Says he disagrees with my conclusions but says things that I concluded. Cuth literally did the same thing.

https://media.giphy.com/media/6FrPhLdvxkphK/giphy.gif

i disagree more with your process than your conclusions tbh

Fredwood

06-25-2017, 19:34

When is EOD?

Csargo

06-25-2017, 19:43

i basically said

at the same time i strongly feel there's a wolf in there and feel like there might not

Such a great dichotomy it's awesome. There's a wolf there, but also maybe not. I guess you've already made your decision though.

Csargo

06-25-2017, 19:46

Official Tally as of #964

----

Day 2 ends in: tunnel snakes rule

----

1 Askthepizzaguy (Cuthillius)
1 Fredwood (El Barto)
1 GeneralHankerchief (novice)
1 Montmorency (Sooh)
1 Sooh (Manasi)

----

Not Voting: Askthepizzaguy, Csargo, Dp101, Fredwood, GeneralHankerchief, Montmorency, Winston Hughes

Not Posting: autolycus, BSmith, crimson_snow, Logic

----

If you notice anything wrong, PM me.

tunnel snakes rule lol

El Barto

06-25-2017, 19:53

From time to time, I find that it can be a good way to gain information for the rest of town, specifically if you find you aren't very enthused by the game early on. Especially if you play the game with the belief that vanilla townies are expendable (a theory I personally hold myself to, but don't expect it of others.)

I call it a personal win if I am nightkilled, but if I can't manage that, then I at least hope my lynch gains more info for town than my continued presence does. Acting slightly scimmy when you have no reads can sometimes accomplish that.
You say that Fredwood was being a decoy? I am tempted to believe that.
unvote.

Also, I will endeavour to make you a winner next time I am mafia.

When is EOD?
9 hours from the time you made that post, by my reckoning.

Logic

06-25-2017, 19:56

tunnel snakes rule lol

Ok, csargo and I can be friends. He seemingly likes both Fallout and The Office?
/tangent

Buuuuut....
I want more from you before I call you clear. I think you are the only place I have definitively disagreed with pizza.

Csargo

06-25-2017, 20:12

Ok, csargo and I can be friends. He seemingly likes both Fallout and The Office?
/tangent

Buuuuut....
I want more from you before I call you clear. I think you are the only place I have definitively disagreed with pizza.

Did you see my sweet isos? I'm still working on them, but there's some that nobody has commented on :(

Go quote Zack's vote tally and look at the timer in the quote.

El Barto

06-25-2017, 20:20

9 hours from the time you made that post, by my reckoning.
Make that 10.

Ok, csargo and I can be friends. He seemingly likes both Fallout and The Office?
/tangent
I have an important inquiry to make: Is this the English or the USian version of The Office?

Buuuuut....
I want more from you before I call you clear. I think you are the only place I have definitively disagreed with pizza.
How can you disagree with pizza? It has cheese and olives on it.

Unless it is the poster.
I wonder why he's so vehement about my being cleared.

El Barto

06-25-2017, 20:25

BSmith

06-25-2017, 20:32

I've been in the car the past two days and have a ton of catching up to do. Can anyone give me the Cliff's Notes version of D2 so far?

Csargo

06-25-2017, 20:36

I've been in the car the past two days and have a ton of catching up to do. Can anyone give me the Cliff's Notes version of D2 so far?

Cuth, Dp going after pizza. Pizza going after novice with a side of Logic. idk what else.

Csargo

06-25-2017, 20:38

Also, GH in the game now.

Cuthillius

06-25-2017, 20:39

I can't say that I think sooh is massively towny

by herself i would possibly vote her

the only thing is that i agree with all of her reads and conclusions, even without considering atpg

therein lies the difference

novice

06-25-2017, 20:46

See post #1031 where atpg quotes me
>Day One. Spamming is in the order of business.

I specifically mentioned that I was not to be taken too seriously on Day One. For some reason, Fredwood did.
But you also specifically called Fred's attention to your vote on him.
Should we just discount all of your day one?

How would Cuthillius have been ‘empowered’?
His impact on the lynch increased. His chance of getting Csargo lynched improved, and if he chose to vote elsewhere he couldn't claim lack of support as a reason.

Zack

06-25-2017, 20:53

Official Tally as of #1114

----

Day 2 ends in: tunnel snakes rule

----

2 Askthepizzaguy (Cuthillius, Dp101)
2 novice (Askthepizzaguy, Logic)

1 El Barto (novice)
1 Montmorency (Sooh)
1 Sooh (Manasi)

----

Not Voting: BSmith, crimson_snow, Csargo, El Barto, Fredwood, GeneralHankerchief, Montmorency, Winston Hughes

Not Posting: autolycus

----

If you notice anything wrong, PM me.

BSmith

06-25-2017, 21:00

Thanks Caargo. Trying to catch up but afternoon is filled with unpacking, etc. I will get a vote in before EoD.

Sooh

06-25-2017, 21:00

Vote: Manasi

Logic and Monty showing signs of reassessing reads, which is a good thing.

Dp101

06-25-2017, 21:03

More votes from everyone pls.

El Barto

06-25-2017, 21:08

But you also specifically called Fred's attention to your vote on him.
Should we just discount all of your day one?
No, but take it with the proverbial pinch of salt.

His impact on the lynch increased. His chance of getting Csargo lynched improved, and if he chose to vote elsewhere he couldn't claim lack of support as a reason.
OK. So why give this power to Cuthillius specifically?

Vote: Manasi

Logic and Monty showing signs of reassessing reads, which is a good thing.
I would much prefer this waggon to the pizza-novice dichotomy.

vote: Manasi

novice

06-25-2017, 21:27

So why give this power to Cuthillius specifically?

He was trending up in my eyes and seemed to have a suspect set overlapping mine. I chose him as person most likely to make sensible decisions in my sleep and found a place for my vote that worked for me and worked for him.

I'll have to do something similar today probably, I get the feeling this current tally won't resemble the final tally at all.

novice

06-25-2017, 21:29

Ok, let's see where this goes.

Vote: Manasi

Sooh

06-25-2017, 21:33

This is interesting.

El Barto

06-25-2017, 21:35

He was trending up in my eyes and seemed to have a suspect set overlapping mine. I chose him as person most likely to make sensible decisions in my sleep and found a place for my vote that worked for me and worked for him.
Hmm… That doesn't sound quite right. Cuthillius might very well have ended up not paying you the slightest attention.

I'll have to do something similar today probably, I get the feeling this current tally won't resemble the final tally at all.
You might just dispense with sleep and a normal life, as askthepizzaguy does.

Ok, let's see where this goes.

Vote: Manasi
Your self-saving vote is noted. :clown:

This is interesting.
It is!

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 21:36

These two opening posts from Monty feel like signaling to the scum team that he is in fact neutral or third party.

No Lynch is not threatening to scums. It's also not very townie, although crimson also did this for reasons that look off-board-culture-y and most definitely not scum or 3p.

Monty talking about Sk/3p immediately means it's on his mind.

Why I have such a massive neutral/3p read on him, right away. Those first 2 posts.

No death last night means to me that neutral survivor or other third party hostile is likelier than straight up SK.

Under such a metric, he's gotta at least keep an eye out for scums, but his goal isn't necessarily to lynch them off. Just not die from them.

Or maybe he.... holstered as SK. That seems like a super Monty thing to do. Only Monty, really, would ever. :laugh4:

I might do it as SK to claim vig later, but not the way I've played this game. Not by a long shot, or a holstered one. I like to kill the scums too much, too, especially if I have a scum read and I definitely did. Fredwood would be dead today if I was either SK or vig. That seemed really decent at the time.

This has been the first game in a while where No Lynch was permitted. :shrug:

If I holstered a kill, where did the Mafia kill go? Where did your suggested protection go? Maybe you attacked Fredwood and someone protected him? Or as I mentioned, someone was blocked? Jailed? Bulletproof vests? There are many possibilities, and it's interesting which ones you avoid.

He'd be really on the ball if I was scum.

Would I really? Tunneling Pizza from D1 is not just a bad idea for Town, it's a good way to get nightkilled whether or not Pizza is scum, and a good way to have Pizza lynch you fast, directly or indirectly. Maybe I was just demoralized by my read: if I immediately scum-read scum last game and couldn't do anything with it, what can I hope to achieve against scum Pizza now?

Askthepizzaguy- 100
Csargo- 80
Dp101- 60
crimson_snow- 70
Cuthillius- 60
El Barto- 50
Fredwood- 60
Winston- 55
Autolycus- 80 on Novice scum flip
------------------------
Monty (Leaning not scum)
------------------------
Manasi (one of Sooh and Manasi, I think)
Sooh (see above)
------------------------
Logic best of the remaining 4
Champ/GH- give space. Lynch at final 3 if alive.
Bsmith- Too lazy for a town read.
Novice- Too scummy to be town.

Auto can't be mostly cleared in event of novice scum with such an early vote, as you know he is prone to leaving votes like that even if it puts partners at risk without him around to change it; you did the same at least once. BSmith should be nuller. GH lynch should be sooner. DP may be a bit lower, Csargo considerably so. I should be town overall. Otherwise endorse these leans.

Monty can be the purple one.

It does strike me that novice has made more snipes than connections.
As an aside, since novice's vote onto Csargo, third on wagon, precipitated the final EOD flurry, who would you say he was trying to save? You liked Barto there, and shouldn't be Csargo unless superbussing to save yet another partner, and Jowy flipped town - so what was novice doing? Your logical conclusion would be that Sooh is novice's partner and he moved to sve her, right? And since you mentioned Champ crossposting Barto for both voting Jowy, your alternative in case of novice town would be that Chamop was trying to save partner Csargo, right? A lot of your D1 activity analysis rides on the assumption that Csargo is town. So I'm willing to see clarification by lynching novice. And the case is neat, I guess.

Let's see who you really are, Pizza.

Vote: novice

(Note that vote may be subject to change onto Pizza at any time or administrator's discretion.)

Only people today I will consider voting: Novice Pizza GH, also several others (!)

Csargo

06-25-2017, 21:44

This is interesting.

Why?

Csargo

06-25-2017, 21:44

I like Monty's post. Feels good.

Sooh

06-25-2017, 21:44

Why?

Surprising that I'm getting two people to follow me when I'm so widely sussed.

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 21:46

I like Monty's post. Feels good.

E-evil?

Surprising that I'm getting two people to follow me when I'm so widely sussed.

Could be the scum counterwagon, as always.

Sooh

06-25-2017, 21:48

Could be the scum counterwagon, as always.
So you think everyone on Manasi currently are scum?

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 21:49

So you think everyone on Manasi currently are scum?

No. But it is a possibility which addresses your question.

Sooh

06-25-2017, 21:50

No. But it is a possibility which addresses your question.

Who are scum and who are not?

Novice and I are and El Barto is not?

El Barto

06-25-2017, 21:50

Surprising that I'm getting two people to follow me when I'm so widely sussed.Could be the scum counterwagon, as always.
It is a three-person bandwaggon, now that I think of it.

Zack

06-25-2017, 21:51

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 21:53

Who are scum and who are not?

Novice and I are and El Barto is not?

You and novice? Why?

Csargo, Barto, DP, Sooh, and I suppose Manasi are all in a murky category that isn't neutral but holds a fluidity of positives and negatives. I could defend these people strongly, or I could vote to lynch them. In absolute terms however, right now I want to thunderdome Novice-Pizza, or just lynch General Champerchief and save the Dome for tomorrow.

Logic

06-25-2017, 21:54

Only people today I will consider voting: Novice Pizza GH, also several others (!)So, you will only consider your top 3, plus unnamed others? What gives? This sounds like a non-commital to me.

Csargo

06-25-2017, 21:58

Surprising that I'm getting two people to follow me when I'm so widely sussed.

Manasi ez lynch, not surprising. Given her play up until this point. novice vote is questionable, much like his others imo. Barto hard to say...

Csargo

06-25-2017, 21:59

I really want to vote GH at this point, which conflicts with my gutread of Champ, conundrum.

Sooh

06-25-2017, 22:03

You and novice? Why?

Csargo, Barto, DP, Sooh, and I suppose Manasi are all in a murky category that isn't neutral but holds a fluidity of positives and negatives. I could defend these people strongly, or I could vote to lynch them. In absolute terms however, right now I want to thunderdome Novice-Pizza, or just lynch General Champerchief and save the Dome for tomorrow.

I was referring to your post where you were theorizing about me and Novice being a team.

El Barto

06-25-2017, 22:04

Csargo, I am beginning to think that you use such poorly constructed English in order to

Who are scum and who are not?

Novice and I are and El Barto is not?
I am no mafioso. I followed you so I think that you are not either (provisionally, of course). Novice… I wouldn't be that sorry to lose him, not least because having someone perennially delegating his votes isn't the best option (this is the MU me coming to the surface).

You and novice? Why?

Csargo, Barto, DP, Sooh, and I suppose Manasi are all in a murky category that isn't neutral but holds a fluidity of positives and negatives. I could defend these people strongly, or I could vote to lynch them. In absolute terms however, right now I want to thunderdome Novice-Pizza, or just lynch General Champerchief and save the Dome for tomorrow.
OK, why novice-pizza, why General Champerchief? You might convince me on any at this point.

Logic

06-25-2017, 22:05

Ok, let's see where this goes.

Vote: Manasi
Wht switch from one bandwagon of 3 to make Manasi a 3 with your vote?

Hmm… That doesn't sound quite right. Cuthillius might very well have ended up not paying you the slightest attention.

You might just dispense with sleep and a normal life, as askthepizzaguy does.

Your self-saving vote is noted. :clown:

It is!Moving from one tied wagon to make a different wagon tied doesn't seem like much of a self preservation vote. Just because the Manasi wagon is newer doesn't mean it will gain more traction. Unless you've got a reason to think that Manasi will draw more addtional votes than Pizza.

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 22:05

I was referring to your post where you were theorizing about me and Novice being a team.

Remind me?

Sooh

06-25-2017, 22:05

Csargo, I am beginning to think that you use such poorly constructed English in order to

Did this sentence have an ending?

Csargo

06-25-2017, 22:06

Csargo, I am beginning to think that you use such poorly constructed English in order to

:shrug:

GeneralHankerchief

06-25-2017, 22:06

I really want to vote GH at this point, which conflicts with my gutread of Champ, conundrum.

Why? Have my myriad contributions since I subbed in been scummy enough to get you to reverse course? IIRC the only thing that didn't sit well with you was my townread of Monty - so why not vote Monty instead?

Also I'm probably just going to catch up over the night phase, but I'll try to get in the current flow of things in the meantime.

Sooh

06-25-2017, 22:07

I guess I misread this. You were voicing your interpretation of someone else's thoughts and theories?

As an aside, since novice's vote onto Csargo, third on wagon, precipitated the final EOD flurry, who would you say he was trying to save? You liked Barto there, and shouldn't be Csargo unless superbussing to save yet another partner, and Jowy flipped town - so what was novice doing? Your logical conclusion would be that Sooh is novice's partner and he moved to sve her, right? And since you mentioned Champ crossposting Barto for both voting Jowy, your alternative in case of novice town would be that Chamop was trying to save partner Csargo, right? A lot of your D1 activity analysis rides on the assumption that Csargo is town. So I'm willing to see clarification by lynching novice. And the case is neat, I guess.

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 22:08

Csargo, I am beginning to think that you use such poorly constructed English in order to

I am no mafioso. I followed you so I think that you are not either (provisionally, of course). Novice… I wouldn't be that sorry to lose him, not least because having someone perennially delegating his votes isn't the best option (this is the MU me coming to the surface).

OK, why novice-pizza, why General Champerchief? You might convince me on any at this point.

The case is not bad, and gives information. I want to see Pizza get scum, because if he does then at this point its less likely to be bussing than it would be at a future round. Champ was a decent enough basic lynch, and GH's initial questions seemed like a facade to convey the impression of a townie asking for a briefing, the way they were constructed.

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 22:09

I guess I misread this. You were voicing your interpretation of someone else's thoughts and theories?

This was gaming out spew re: D1 based on prospective D2 flips.

Csargo

06-25-2017, 22:09

Why? Have my myriad contributions since I subbed in been scummy enough to get you to reverse course? IIRC the only thing that didn't sit well with you was my townread of Monty - so why not vote Monty instead?

Also I'm probably just going to catch up over the night phase, but I'll try to get in the current flow of things in the meantime.

This is also concerning.

Sooh

06-25-2017, 22:09

This was gaming out spew re: D1 based on prospective D2 flips.

kk, yeah, I misread that.

GeneralHankerchief

06-25-2017, 22:10

This is also concerning.

No it isn't, what's concerning is you dodging the relatively simple question I just asked you.

GeneralHankerchief

06-25-2017, 22:11

The case is not bad, and gives information. I want to see Pizza get scum, because if he does then at this point its less likely to be bussing than it would be at a future round. Champ was a decent enough basic lynch, and GH's initial questions seemed like a facade to convey the impression of a townie asking for a briefing, the way they were constructed.

How on earth do you get that out of my entry posts? Please use specifics.

Csargo

06-25-2017, 22:13

No it isn't, what's concerning is you dodging the relatively simple question I just asked you.

I don't like your tone, and I don't want to lynch Monty.

GeneralHankerchief

06-25-2017, 22:14

Vote: Csargo

Probably parking this here.

Csargo

06-25-2017, 22:17

Vote: Csargo

Probably parking this here.

We got a game! I'm super excited!

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 22:18

How on earth do you get that out of my entry posts? Please use specifics.

Your SoD posts, then:

Hey guys.

Haven't read a thing, probably won't before tomorrow. Can I get a quick summary?

Asks for summary.

Without having read a single thing, all these reads [from Fredwood on Manasi, Sooh, Montmorency, Barto, and Winston] appear to check out in terms of people acting in line with expectations.

Already establishing commentary on reads.

Jowy flipped town I take it?

Who else died?

This third post is what really struck me as a faux-town thing to say.

No nightkill?

We get any leads from that?

blaring sirens

This sounds like you don't want to appear to be fishing, so you broach it more obliquely.

I said I haven't read a thing in the first post I made after subbing in. I meant what I said.

But congrats, you get my first townread of the game.

Again, faux-town excuse, but in reality town GH wouldn't skip reading the basic game-setup and rule posts from the host, and he wouldn't make light of doing so in the way you did.

Zack

06-25-2017, 22:18

I won't be around until close to EOD. If the deadline passes without me being here, everyone still needs to stop posting when the timer runs out. (It's in roughly 7 hours and 40 minutes from this post, 12:59 am edt. :59 good, :00 bad and don't post.)

Winston Hughes

06-25-2017, 22:18

Pro tip: pizza first, then cognac, and never the other way around.

I woke up on the sofa in daylight, feeling like I'd attempted self-lobotomy with an angle grinder.

Csargo

06-25-2017, 22:19

Oh, I forgot:

Vote:GH

Csargo

06-25-2017, 22:20

Pro tip: pizza first, then cognac, and never the other way around.

I woke up on the sofa in daylight, feeling like I'd attempted self-lobotomy with an angle grinder.

It's a good tip.

GeneralHankerchief

06-25-2017, 22:25

Your SoD posts, then:

Asks for summary.

Already establishing commentary on reads.

This third post is what really struck me as a faux-town thing to say.

blaring sirens

This sounds like you don't want to appear to be fishing, so you broach it more obliquely.

Again, faux-town excuse, but in reality town GH wouldn't skip reading the basic game-setup and rule posts from the host, and he wouldn't make light of doing so in the way you did.

LITERALLY NONE OF THIS IS SCUMMY.

Did Champ beat both you and Csargo over the heads or something?

El Barto

06-25-2017, 22:28

Moving from one tied wagon to make a different wagon tied doesn't seem like much of a self preservation vote. Just because the Manasi wagon is newer doesn't mean it will gain more traction. Unless you've got a reason to think that Manasi will draw more addtional votes than Pizza.
Given that we know Pizza will be around later tonight and has a far greater power of persuasion, as well as vindictiveness, to attack

Did this sentence have an ending?

:shrug:
Yes, it was minced by an accidentally-clicked send button.

I was going to state that I was beginning to think that Csargo uses such poorly constructed English in order to… leave his posts open to interpretation and then fill in the blanks as required.

The case is not bad, and gives information. I want to see Pizza get scum, because if he does then at this point its less likely to be bussing than it would be at a future round. Champ was a decent enough basic lynch, and GH's initial questions seemed like a facade to convey the impression of a townie asking for a briefing, the way they were constructed.
I think he really was asking for a briefing. Are you going to behave cunicularly against him as you did last game?

Pro tip: pizza first, then cognac, and never the other way around.

I woke up on the sofa in daylight, feeling like I'd attempted self-lobotomy with an angle grinder.
Do you mean reading pizzaguy, or the eating of the actual foodstuff?

Oh, I forgot:

Vote:GH
Oh your God, he sucks!

Logic

06-25-2017, 22:29

Your SoD posts, then:

Asks for summary.

Already establishing commentary on reads.

This third post is what really struck me as a faux-town thing to say.

blaring sirens

This sounds like you don't want to appear to be fishing, so you broach it more obliquely.

Again, faux-town excuse, but in reality town GH wouldn't skip reading the basic game-setup and rule posts from the host, and he wouldn't make light of doing so in the way you did.

Blaring sirens, and yet you don't move your vote? Are you being overly dramatic intentionally?

El Barto

06-25-2017, 22:31

Blaring sirens, and yet you don't move your vote? Are you being overly dramatic intentionally?
Montmorency, of all people? Never, I say, in a thousand years!

Winston Hughes

06-25-2017, 22:31

Do you mean reading pizzaguy, or the eating of the actual foodstuff?

I meant the latter, but now you mention it... :laugh4:

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 22:32

Blaring sirens, and yet you don't move your vote? Are you being overly dramatic intentionally?

Nope.

1. Pizza-novice more important
2. I want Pizza's input.
3. GH should receive the courtesy of being permitted to catch up.

GeneralHankerchief

06-25-2017, 22:36

Here's Csargo's progression on Monty (with a slice of Monty and myself) from the time I subbed in until now:

Monty thinks scum holstered.

Congrats, you played yourself. 1st townread for Monty all game. That's not a good start.

The first two posts are already problematic. The first post is in response to my asking if there were any leads on there not being a kill on N1, and Csargo volunteered the information saying Monty thought scum holstered without further commentary, which to me implies Csargo has some degree of belief/trust towards that information.

But in the second post, he says my giving a townread of Monty is a bad sign, implying that Csargo is scumreading him. This further continues later on:

You can't count yourself.

Who else townread you?

----

The argument withers on the vine until we cut to later on, in which Monty makes an analysis post:

This has been the first game in a while where No Lynch was permitted. :shrug:

If I holstered a kill, where did the Mafia kill go? Where did your suggested protection go? Maybe you attacked Fredwood and someone protected him? Or as I mentioned, someone was blocked? Jailed? Bulletproof vests? There are many possibilities, and it's interesting which ones you avoid.

Would I really? Tunneling Pizza from D1 is not just a bad idea for Town, it's a good way to get nightkilled whether or not Pizza is scum, and a good way to have Pizza lynch you fast, directly or indirectly. Maybe I was just demoralized by my read: if I immediately scum-read scum last game and couldn't do anything with it, what can I hope to achieve against scum Pizza now?

Auto can't be mostly cleared in event of novice scum with such an early vote, as you know he is prone to leaving votes like that even if it puts partners at risk without him around to change it; you did the same at least once. BSmith should be nuller. GH lynch should be sooner. DP may be a bit lower, Csargo considerably so. I should be town overall. Otherwise endorse these leans.

It does strike me that novice has made more snipes than connections.
As an aside, since novice's vote onto Csargo, third on wagon, precipitated the final EOD flurry, who would you say he was trying to save? You liked Barto there, and shouldn't be Csargo unless superbussing to save yet another partner, and Jowy flipped town - so what was novice doing? Your logical conclusion would be that Sooh is novice's partner and he moved to sve her, right? And since you mentioned Champ crossposting Barto for both voting Jowy, your alternative in case of novice town would be that Chamop was trying to save partner Csargo, right? A lot of your D1 activity analysis rides on the assumption that Csargo is town. So I'm willing to see clarification by lynching novice. And the case is neat, I guess.

Let's see who you really are, Pizza.

Vote: novice

(Note that vote may be subject to change onto Pizza at any time or administrator's discretion.)

Only people today I will consider voting: Novice Pizza GH, also several others (!)

It's a decent post, but certainly in Monty's scum range, and nothing that I'd consider alignment-indicative without having read. However, Csargo apparently considers it enough to treat it as worth him doing a full 180 on Monty:

I like Monty's post. Feels good.

He clarifies this later on to me.

I really want to vote GH at this point, which conflicts with my gutread of Champ, conundrum.

Why? Have my myriad contributions since I subbed in been scummy enough to get you to reverse course? IIRC the only thing that didn't sit well with you was my townread of Monty - so why not vote Monty instead?

Also I'm probably just going to catch up over the night phase, but I'll try to get in the current flow of things in the meantime.

This is also concerning.

Conclusion: Csargo's progressions on Monty are all over the map and have some pretty shaky jumps. I don't see them coming from town.

Logic

06-25-2017, 22:39

Montmorency, of all people? Never, I say, in a thousand years!

I don't know him well enough to make that call.

I can't criticize what he finds scummy, but the degree of suspicion does not match his actions. No vote, no call to arms, nothing of the sort.

Granted, I don't think Champ/GH has given us enough to work with.

GeneralHankerchief

06-25-2017, 22:40

Csargo

06-25-2017, 22:41

Yes, it was minced by an accidentally-clicked send button.

I was going to state that I was beginning to think that Csargo uses such poorly constructed English in order to… leave his posts open to interpretation and then fill in the blanks as required.

?

Oh your God, he sucks!

Oh, I thought you were just making fun of me. You wouldn't be wrong I don't guess. I enjoy weirdly structured sentences, etc. I can speak more formally if you'd prefer that, but it's a lot less fun.

I enjoyed GH's indignation, that was good. I hope we get to see more of it in the future.

Logic

06-25-2017, 22:41

Nope.

1. Pizza-novice more important
2. I want Pizza's input.
3. GH should receive the courtesy of being permitted to catch up.

Cross posting:

Fair on all three points, but I think Item 1 is less significant than the other 2.

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 22:43

It's also worth noting that despite Csargo's jumpy progression on Monty, his stance on me remains rock solid, despite the majority of my time in the thread being engaging with Monty - so you think that would change a bit.

Go ahead and read some of D1 now. Pizza describes Csargo in this game as "turbocharged", and as having either his best town game of all time, or his best scum game of all time.

GeneralHankerchief

06-25-2017, 22:44

Go ahead and read some of D1 now. Pizza describes Csargo in this game as "turbocharged", and as having either his best town game of all time, or his best scum game of all time.

I'm not going to read any of the game until the night phase, assuming I live that long. That's just something people are going to have to deal with. What's your actual stance on what I just laid out?

Csargo

06-25-2017, 22:46

This is an interesting progression from GH, I wonder what he'll think when he gets the full picture.

El Barto

06-25-2017, 22:46

Go ahead and read some of D1 now. Pizza describes Csargo in this game as "turbocharged", and as having either his best town game of all time, or his best scum game of all time.
Note the bolded.

Logic

06-25-2017, 22:48

I'm not going to read any of the game until the night phase, assuming I live that long. That's just something people are going to have to deal with. What's your actual stance on what I just laid out?

Now THIS i find a tad on the scummy side.

Why intentionally deprive yourself of information? If you are indeed town, that is all you have to work with. But a scum could easily get a summary from the wolf-chat, and be able to faux-try and point to a post like yours in the event any errors have been made.

Monty, I agree that GH is looking very suspicious.

Winston Hughes

06-25-2017, 22:50

Vote: Manasi

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 22:57

I'm not going to read any of the game until the night phase, assuming I live that long. That's just something people are going to have to deal with. What's your actual stance on what I just laid out?

I don't think there's any particular jumping around, rather that he didn't have a particular stance on you (in thread). Maybe you could argue his progression on me is thin, but you haven't really seen his progression by your own admission.

GeneralHankerchief

06-25-2017, 22:58

Now THIS i find a tad on the scummy side.

Why intentionally deprive yourself of information? If you are indeed town, that is all you have to work with. But a scum could easily get a summary from the wolf-chat, and be able to faux-try and point to a post like yours in the event any errors have been made.

Monty, I agree that GH is looking very suspicious.

Because I have neither the time nor the motivation to go through a thousand posts at the moment.

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 22:59

Because I have neither the time nor the motivation to go through a thousand posts at the moment.

Which is fair. I haven't even fully read the second-half of D1 yet.

By the end of D2, this game is shaping to exceed FrenchRev's post count.

GeneralHankerchief

06-25-2017, 22:59

I don't think there's any particular jumping around, rather that he didn't have a particular stance on you (in thread). Maybe you could argue his progression on me is thin, but you haven't really seen his progression by your own admission.

All I know is what I've seen, and his first two posts regarding Monty that I quoted above were pretty damn contradictory. At least his later shift on you had a small amount of cover.

Csargo

06-25-2017, 23:02

It's also worth noting that despite Csargo's jumpy progression on Monty, his stance on me remains rock solid, despite the majority of my time in the thread being engaging with Monty - so you think that would change a bit.

You have no idea what my thoughts on Monty are, since you have so little information to work with. Just because I liked that one post doesn't mean I have him as town, nor do I have him as scum. There's always another option GH, always. I wanted something from you and I got it, and it's not terribly positive. I can't say I'm impressed with your performance so far, you're all over the place. My Champ gutread was because I had literally nothing to go on except past style, and that doesn't apply to you. Fresh start.

Logic

06-25-2017, 23:02

Because I have neither the time nor the motivation to go through a thousand posts at the moment.

Ok, but I think being upfront with your reasoning would be in the beat interest of everyone. Especially the think-skulled players like myself.

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 23:02

All I know is what I've seen, and his first two posts regarding Monty that I quoted above were pretty damn contradictory. At least his later shift on you had a small amount of cover.

The first post of his you quoted wasn't a serious endorsement of my alleged position but a jibe wrt to this post, that several others also found funny for whatever reason. So it's perfectly in line with a dismissive attitude toward town Monty from Csargo, if not a belligerent one.

No death means it's very likely someone townie-looking got doctored properly.

Which means I am going to reiterate my point about the top 4 posters not needing to be pushed today.

Also Sooh, my love, my decision about you today will be based on what you put into it. Pre-emptively deciding you're not going to try looks bad.

Just find townies and find scums. I won't even deluge you with accusations. Have some space. Do your thing.

Then I'll judge.

It's as fair as I can be.

Same with Fredwood. On the chance his behavior is self-focused townie, my advice to him to break our deadlock is to have a better day 2. My feelings are on record, I don't have to reiterate them.

Roleblock, bulletproof, MAFIA HOLSTER

But yeah, maybe.

GeneralHankerchief

06-25-2017, 23:06

The first post of his you quoted wasn't a serious endorsement of my alleged position but a jibe wrt to this post, that several others also found funny for whatever reason. So it's perfectly in line with a dismissive attitude toward town Monty from Csargo, if not a belligerent one.

Okay, that makes a little more sense then.

Csargo

06-25-2017, 23:06

All I know is what I've seen, and his first two posts regarding Monty that I quoted above were pretty damn contradictory. At least his later shift on you had a small amount of cover.

Does viewing one post in a positive light, greatly change an overall view? I'm not sure what you're arguing, because it doesn't make sense to me.

GeneralHankerchief

06-25-2017, 23:08

Does viewing one post in a positive light, greatly change an overall view? I'm not sure what you're arguing, because it doesn't make sense to me.

Before Monty clarified that you were sort of making fun of him/referencing an earlier thing, my impression of your progression on Monty was:

Positive - Negative (very next post) ----time passes----- Monty NAI analysis post - positive

So you see why I didn't like it from my POV.

Csargo

06-25-2017, 23:10

Before Monty clarified that you were sort of making fun of him/referencing an earlier thing, my impression of your progression on Monty was:

Positive - Negative (very next post) ----time passes----- Monty NAI analysis post - positive

So you see why I didn't like it from my POV.

You should always question the seriousness of my statements.

Montmorency

06-25-2017, 23:15

In this exchange GH slightly towny for appearing not to avail himself of more info to improve his position, but as we saw last game GH is perfectly capable of combining misdirection with indignation, so it doesn't count.

crimson_snow

06-25-2017, 23:47

Hi.

Crimson popping in for a bit.

I've read virtually none of D2, will try to fix that over next few hours.

If someone wants to give me a breakdown of things I'll probably use it to get a read on you.

Askthepizzaguy

06-26-2017, 00:36

1:35am

burned out pizza.

LolCuth

Vote stays on Novice the obvious scumbag.

Good night all!

El Barto

06-26-2017, 00:40

Vote: Manasi
I find it very odd that you suddenly come out to reinforce the Manasi counterwaggon.

Logic

06-26-2017, 00:40

There is a very good chance I won't be online again before EOD. I will try to check back and read what others post, but roght now, I am happy with where my vote is.

El Barto

06-26-2017, 00:42

Nope.

1. Pizza-novice more important
2. I want Pizza's input.
3. GH should receive the courtesy of being permitted to catch up.
unvote

and then

vote: novice

If anything, we'll force atpg to look at others tomorrow.

Montmorency

06-26-2017, 00:47

Official Tally as of #1132

----

Day 2 ends in: tunnel snakes rule

----

3 Manasi (Sooh, El Barto, novice)
3 novice (Askthepizzaguy, Logic, Montmorency)

2 Askthepizzaguy (Cuthillius, Dp101)

1 Sooh (Manasi)

----

Not Voting: BSmith, crimson_snow, Csargo, Fredwood, GeneralHankerchief, Winston Hughes

Not Posting: autolycus

----

If you notice anything wrong, PM me.

Then:

1. GH and Csargo vote each other
2. Winston votes Manasi
3. Barto unvotes Manasi and votes Novice

UPDATED TALLY

----

4 novice (Askthepizzaguy, Logic, Montmorency, Barto)
3 Manasi (Sooh, novice, Winston Hughes)

2 Askthepizzaguy (Cuthillius, Dp101)

1 Sooh (Manasi)
1 GH (Csargo)
1 Csargo (GH)

----

Not Voting: BSmith, crimson_snow, Fredwood

Not Posting: autolycus

----

Manasi

06-26-2017, 00:48

Sup y'all.

Glad you decided to join Sooh in the "Let's vote on a villager bc we don't know what else to do" wagon.

Got a sudden urge to cook so I'm in and out of the kitchen for a little bit.

I think the GH outbursts are super towny.

Don't know what to think of Barto's vote/unvote because I think he has been a bit different this game.

Manasi

06-26-2017, 00:49

lol at winston coming out of the woodworks to lynch me glgl buddyboi

El Barto

06-26-2017, 01:00

Don't know what to think of Barto's vote/unvote because I think he has been a bit different this game.
It's the hair.

El Barto

06-26-2017, 01:13

lol at winston coming out of the woodworks to lynch me glgl buddyboi
Yes! That was an interesting intervention by him. He had never posted anything related to you or to novice (either to justify lynching you for yourself or as a byproduct of saving novice whom he'd be townreading). He's only made sociable posts. Even my Day One posts have had more game-related content than his. But the clearness of his vote belies his claimed drunkenness/hangover.

Montmorency

06-26-2017, 01:19

Yes! That was an interesting intervention by him. He had never posted anything related to you or to novice (either to justify lynching you for yourself or as a byproduct of saving novice whom he'd be townreading). He's only made sociable posts. Even my Day One posts have had more game-related content than his. But the clearness of his vote belies his claimed drunkenness/hangover.

I wouldn't say that your posts - adjusting for relative count - have had more game-related content than his.

It's certainly an interesting move, reminiscent of old Org culture. Are you eager to call it a "slip"?

El Barto

06-26-2017, 01:25

I wouldn't say that your posts - adjusting for relative count - have had more game-related content than his.
I was speaking in overall terms, rather than in content density.

It's certainly an interesting move, reminiscent of old Org culture. Are you eager to call it a "slip"?
A possible slip, right now. :)

El Barto

06-26-2017, 01:40

Sup y'all.

Glad you decided to join Sooh in the "Let's vote on a villager bc we don't know what else to do" wagon.
You missed this bit:

I like how Manasi's vote is on me and she's ignoring everything I say in the game.
Still outstanding.

And do tell us what you're cooking.

Manasi

06-26-2017, 01:43

You missed this bit:

Still outstanding.

And do tell us what you're cooking.

I've told Sooh that all of her isos seem like just recap and inconclusive.

That being said, her interactions with Pizza seemed relatively normal so there's the slight chance I could be stuck in a tunnel.

I do think that Day 1 their interactions were weirder than Day 2, but I don't really think that she has done anything between those to warrant any sort of switch in a read.

As for what I'm cooking, I'm trying out this (https://www.justataste.com/slow-cooker-crock-pot-honey-garlic-chicken-recipe/) and this (https://www.gimmesomeoven.com/sesame-noodles/).

The house smells divine.

Manasi

06-26-2017, 01:46

Also since working full time has accelerated the aging process, the chances I will be awake for this EOD are slim to none.

El Barto

06-26-2017, 01:54

As for what I'm cooking, I'm trying out this (https://www.justataste.com/slow-cooker-crock-pot-honey-garlic-chicken-recipe/) and this (https://www.gimmesomeoven.com/sesame-noodles/).

The house smells divine.
When can I move in?

(the rest is snipped out, for Sooh to read when she gets back).

Csargo

06-26-2017, 01:56

I've told Sooh that all of her isos seem like just recap and inconclusive.

That being said, her interactions with Pizza seemed relatively normal so there's the slight chance I could be stuck in a tunnel.

I do think that Day 1 their interactions were weirder than Day 2, but I don't really think that she has done anything between those to warrant any sort of switch in a read.

As for what I'm cooking, I'm trying out this (https://www.justataste.com/slow-cooker-crock-pot-honey-garlic-chicken-recipe/) and this (https://www.gimmesomeoven.com/sesame-noodles/).

The house smells divine.

I wasn't even invited :sad:

Csargo

06-26-2017, 01:57

Also since working full time has accelerated the aging process, the chances I will be awake for this EOD are slim to none.

u gonna get lynched, I should vote you for calling GH super townie.

When can I move in?

(the rest is snipped out, for Sooh to read when she gets back).

What kind man!

Cuthillius

06-26-2017, 02:15

oi pizza

are you serious right now

i just make a bunch of posts about why i think novice is town

and you're just lol that's great

and don't even address them at all

come on, that's just

pathetic

as either alignment

carry on ignoring everything that you disagree with while making small remarks about how you don't think it's of any importance all the same, though

if that's really how you want to play this game

El Barto

06-26-2017, 02:17

u gonna get lynched, I should vote you for calling GH super townie.

What a strange post.

Dp101

06-26-2017, 02:20

Popping back in, although not for long. I really feel that Novice is a terrible lynch, mostly because Pizza's case on him really misrepresents his play thus far.

El Barto

06-26-2017, 02:23

Popping back in, although not for long. I really feel that Novice is a terrible lynch, mostly because Pizza's case on him really misrepresents his play thus far.
Any other candidates?

Csargo

06-26-2017, 02:29

What a strange post.

??? I like the name change ???

Csargo

06-26-2017, 02:30

Manasi

06-26-2017, 02:42

When can I move in?

(the rest is snipped out, for Sooh to read when she gets back).

Sry I'm a loyal woman.

to csargo

Manasi

06-26-2017, 02:43

I wasn't even invited :sad:

I was getting ready to bring it over relaaaaaax.

I'm not getting lynched lol.

Montmorency

06-26-2017, 02:46

This distribution feels advantageous to scum. Askthepizzaguy time to wake up and deploy that fire.

Obviously don't forget that this is a thunderdome, and Pizza can't survive a novice town flip.

Csargo

06-26-2017, 02:46

I was getting ready to bring it over relaaaaaax.

I'm not getting lynched lol.

:love:

El Barto

06-26-2017, 02:46

??? I like the name change ???
I am calling your behaviour scummy. Deal with it.

Sry I'm a loyal woman.

to csargo
Ohhhhh. I am disappointed.

El Barto out.

Csargo

06-26-2017, 02:47

I am calling your behaviour scummy. Deal with it.

Ohhhhh. I am disappointed.

El Barto out.

I'm not terribly impressed by you either friend.

Csargo

06-26-2017, 03:16

WH's iso:

I feel like he's a strong town lean for me. Excellent tone, flow, reads feel like a logical progression and they're similar to my own so far. Don't like the naked Manasi vote, but he's expressed concern with her for a while, so it makes sense. Nothing really stuck out as scummy or poor logic/tone. He's probably the most my strongest town read so far, and I'm pretty confident in that assessment.

crimson_snow

06-26-2017, 03:16

So, having some medical/real life issues right now, but since it looks like we die without our role showing, I'm going to claim.

I'm town bulletproof, and 99% sure I was the kill on N1. Wolves know they shot me, and there may or may not be a second component to my role. Maybe it's my own setup design leaking through, but I consider it pretty unlikely to have a full doc + bulletproof both in the setup, so in case they decided to shoot me again tonight wanted to give out the setup info I had.

My first post of game was an attempt to dumbtell a power role, I planned to role play as a newb derp to bait roleblocks/night kills, but I got sucked into the game a bit and it became pretty obvious it wasn't serious.

I'm not fully caught up, and won't be caught up anytime soon (maybe at night, or maybe not until next day phase, assuming everything goes alright), but I'm pretty sure Champ is a wolf, and I'd bet quite a lot on one between El Barto and Manasi, leaning towards the former. I'd also bet a fair bit on there being 1+ in the inactives because I have a lot of town reads on fairly active players - that makes Autolycus/BSmith targets to keep a close eye on.

I think Pizza is town, I think Novice is town, I think Cuth is town, I think CSargo is town, I think Fred is town, I think Sooh is town.

Winston and DP are the lightest of town reads.

Champ
Manasai
El Barto
Autolycus
BSmith
Logic
Montmorency

That's my PoE, with some obvious pairs not knowingly aligned in there.

Vote: Champ in spirit, but not comfortable placing a real vote without having fully caught up.

Won't be around rest of day, glglgl.

Montmorency

06-26-2017, 03:17

crimson_snow

06-26-2017, 03:19

More than Fred or Pizza or Csnow?

Is this WIFOM?

Why do you have me as such a strong town read given I haven't posted at all D2?

Part of what I wanted to do was look at who town read me despite me not being able to post, to look for that inside knowledge of having shot me N1, and that coming clean eventually as to where the bullet went. This makes me suspicious given that, but if you can cite previous town read on me/reasoning I'd be much obliged.

I do need to go now though.

Montmorency

06-26-2017, 03:20

Csargo

06-26-2017, 03:22

More than Fred or Pizza or Csnow?

Is this WIFOM?

Yeah, I'd say so. Csnow I haven't gotten to yet, but initially I never felt particularly confident in people's townreads. I just didn't really like his opening to the game, and thought it was odd. I already talked about Fred earlier. I'm losing confidence in pizza, because he's basically ignored Cuth's posts, and for general paranoia/pocketing reasons. I really like Winston's iso, nothing struck me as anything less sparkly clean, maybe I should be concerned about that?

Montmorency

06-26-2017, 03:23

Why do you have me as such a strong town read given I haven't posted at all D2?

Part of what I wanted to do was look at who town read me despite me not being able to post, to look for that inside knowledge of having shot me N1, and that coming clean eventually as to where the bullet went. This makes me suspicious given that, but if you can cite previous town read on me/reasoning I'd be much obliged.

I do need to go now though.

Here was my read on you at StartofDay:

If you want a read, here's one: CSnow is the towniest player in the field so far, but he's not pure, so you can't trust it.

Csargo

06-26-2017, 03:25

You gonna explain the 'he's not pure bit'?

Csargo

06-26-2017, 03:26

Yeah, I'd say so. Csnow I haven't gotten to yet, but initially I never felt particularly confident in people's townreads. I just didn't really like his opening to the game, and thought it was odd. I already talked about Fred earlier. I'm losing confidence in pizza, because he's basically ignored Cuth's posts, and for general paranoia/pocketing reasons. I really like Winston's iso, nothing struck me as anything less than sparkly clean, maybe I should be concerned about that?

Wowee

Dp101

06-26-2017, 03:30

Any other candidates?

Manasi isn't the worst, but I would prefer one with more info.

BSmith

06-26-2017, 03:30

Mostly caught up, I'll admit I skimmed a lot so some of the finer nuance may be lost on me. I'm going to go with vote: pizza here. I frankly find Cuth's logic and counter to pizza's push much more convincing and the fact that pizza has been ignoring it tips the scales for me.

Montmorency

06-26-2017, 03:30

You gonna explain the 'he's not pure bit'?

As he admitted with his full-claim just now, he was putting on something of a show, and I think it bled over into his serious townie work. He looked overly interested in the environment and his own presentation, which isn't exactly anti-town - I'm guilty of it right now as well - but it contrasts with ingenuity and "pureness", something people have also have faulted me with today.

Manasi

06-26-2017, 03:35

I rly need a post votecount button.

Csargo

06-26-2017, 03:36

As he admitted with his full-claim just now, he was putting on something of a show, and I think it bled over into his serious townie work. He looked overly interested in the environment and his own presentation, which isn't exactly anti-town - I'm guilty of it right now as well - but it contrasts with ingenuity and "pureness", something people have also have faulted me with today.

Yeah, okay. I missed his claim post initially. How are you so good Monty? omg.

Csargo

06-26-2017, 03:37

I rly need a post votecount button.

4 novice
4 pizza
3 Manasi

iirc. Don't worry, I won't let you down. I'll save you promise.

Csargo

06-26-2017, 03:40

Actually, it might be 4-3-3.

Manasi

06-26-2017, 03:41

4 novice
4 pizza
3 Manasi

iirc. Don't worry, I won't let you down. I'll save you promise.

I don't like either of the other wagons though.

Wsfahuifqhweg.

Csargo

06-26-2017, 03:44

No, they're not particularly great. novice probably the best out of the three imo.

Montmorency

06-26-2017, 03:46

Actually, it might be 4-3-3.

Dude.

----

4 novice (Askthepizzaguy, Logic, Montmorency, Barto)
3 Manasi (Sooh, novice, Winston Hughes)

2 Askthepizzaguy (Cuthillius, Dp101)

1 Sooh (Manasi)
1 GH (Csargo)
1 Csargo (GH)

----

Not Voting: BSmith, crimson_snow, Fredwood

Not Posting: autolycus

----

And CSnow is voting Champ.

Montmorency

06-26-2017, 03:47

Oh yes, 4-3-3 with Bsmith's vote after my tally, I missed that.

Cuthillius

06-26-2017, 03:48

I think Pizza is town, I think Novice is town, I think Cuth is town, I think CSargo is town, I think Fred is town, I think Sooh is town.

Winston and DP are the lightest of town reads.

Champ
Manasai
El Barto
Autolycus
BSmith
Logic
Montmorency

That's my PoE, with some obvious pairs not knowingly aligned in there.

Vote: Champ in spirit, but not comfortable placing a real vote without having fully caught up.

Won't be around rest of day, glglgl.

see

i kinda like this

and i kinda think this COULD be the case

but it just seems

too easy

those are the low posters, and more to the point the low-impact posters

i don't think this is that sort of game

Cuthillius

06-26-2017, 03:49

No, they're not particularly great. novice probably the best out of the three imo.

while i'm addressing your bit, do you want to talk to me about my case on novicetown

convince me i'm wrong?

Cuthillius

06-26-2017, 03:52

that said a champ/generalhankerchief lynch would be my second choice in an ideal world

Csargo

06-26-2017, 03:57

while i'm addressing your bit, do you want to talk to me about my case on novicetown

convince me i'm wrong?

Yeah, I'll go back and find it.

Oh yes, 4-3-3 with Bsmith's vote after my tally, I missed that.

:P

Cuthillius

06-26-2017, 04:00

ok

so i just grabbed some posts from a random page, 9 in this case

first off

Just reading the room since I had dinner and a nap, the climax of this day was my pushing Jowy and mentioning fredwood.

Neither one of them handled that push well.

Then, after I was gone, look at their behavior. You all let them go, and the tension all vanished.

Neither one of them did anything at all, really. Jowy's back on low-hanging fruit that won't fight back, and Freddo didn't do anything. Literally.
confirmed town/very likely town

focusing game on potential mislynches

on low-hanging fruit that won't fight back, as it were

In any case, time is basically up for a lot of people this round.

Sooh and I are not going to be around I'd imagine, just due to where we live on the earth.

A lot of people have already peaced out for the round, and many of them were my suspects, and those people looked super comfortable with the tally.

I think this is a mislynch or non-scum lynch in progress, just by reading the room.

I think those of us who are here need to throw our weight around and push a scum now.

If you're not following me then I need a scummy candidate I can lynch. And most of the folks with votes ain't cutting it.
"the people who are here, which include me, but not a bunch of my suspects

well, i thought my suspects looked comfortable with where votes where, so everyone here needs to cfd"

editor's note: this is cow feces

pulling up different mislynches

Csargo I'd lynch Jowy, Fredwood, Novice, and very few other people.

I gotta go. What's the call?
still looking at >confirmed town, probably town, probably town, ???

he's literally focusing the game

and i'm not saying that that'd never happen as town

just in this case IT IS ON TOWN

that is SOMETHING THAT IS SIGNIFICANT

he is giving out a level of confidence that is THIS BIG and pushing town, and focusing on people who are super towny, in particular people who aren't around, as he admitted himself, going into eod

this is not the towniest approach i've ever seen, but i don't know about you

Monty, you want to lynch an actual scumbag, one that would have been fine picking you off today, lynch Jowy.

You want to stop tinfoiling me? If I lynch a scum day one, you can call it bussing tomorrow. But a dead scum will still have happened.

Lynch me and I flip townie, and you'll never push Jowy because I've read the room and no one's paying attention.
important context: jowy was town

so here we have pizza offering two choices

either lynch scum and call it bussing

or lynch pizza and he's town and jowyscum will survive until endgame and ??nobody is paying attention??

first off, there are a couple of false claims in there, in particular that jowy was either scummy or actually scum, and that nobody was paying attention

in this case, there were several people actively trying not to lynch jowy, and being in the thread and trying to solve

this is unfounded

in addition, he never offers the option of jowy potentially being town

again, he doesn't want attention to go there

again, that could happen as town

again, it's a strange juxtaposition of confidence levels

either he's confident about his thoughts which are bad, so much so that he deliberately spends all his effort focusing everything on this small pool of towny people

or he's scum

And that's it.

It's 3am and I have school in a few hours.

I put in a monster day one and all my reads and suspicions are posted. There's also night chat, so you can ask me stuff before day 2 even happens.

But that's all I can do.

You remaining folks that need to have every little thing wrapped up in a bow aren't going to get it. Make a gutsy call.

Good night.
and now he calls it a gutsy call, rather than obviously lynching the obvious scum

he says look at the effort i did, look at me, ask me questions

he doesn't ever try to engage people, draw them out, unless it lines up with his agenda

and that's kinda pizza's mojo anyway

but

it just drips of insincerity and misdirection to me