And this is the post that I would have nailed Ladd with if it was f3 between sui ladd and myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
(easier to search because same alignment is a rare wording in this game :D )
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And this is the post that I would have nailed Ladd with if it was f3 between sui ladd and myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
(easier to search because same alignment is a rare wording in this game :D )
My only little holdback in regards to Ender right now is setup-based.
1-shot vig
a-shot vest
compliment each other very well regarding changing one kp from wolfside to village side.
Which if you assume 15 players mountainous as balanced would work for a 13-player game.
But it kind of gives the village 2 confirmed villagers, maybe 3. (that is if the village believes in claimed roles)
Which is a huge swing.
And I am unsure what the wolves would have as counterplay.
Nothing of use comes to mind because you really just use either 1-shot on n1 so rolecops and roleblocks are basically useless.
Gemma has played games under Eidos/Voxxs wing for a while and Voxx really enjoys the odd wolf-doc in his tiny setups.
Adding the vig still moves 1 kp overall to the village side.
The vest from a wolf role is only for playmaking.
But like - why would anyone kill tammy n2?
The wolves know how strong their power is and visor confirmed the existence of both sig as well as ender (not alignment ofc).
If both of them are villagers which wolf thinks that tammys claim is not fps?
Wolf ladd would need to be an actual powerhouse role to think tammy is the right kill.
This has been fucking me for days and if this is me being an idiot and losing the game for the village I am truly sorry, but I need to talk it through and the only person I can talk it through is the fucking main wolf candidate @ladd .
(Sorry Ender unless you have a genius idea for why you are always real this little part is something Ladd and I have to chew through trying to clear or condemn you based on it)
I don't have much I can say tbh. I feel like "Vesting and shooting someone N1" isn't something I'd do as wolf but also you don't know me so eh.
Also given both Syn and I are 1-shots and gave that away I feel like Taffy as a kill makes sense from either of you if you wanted to avoid any chance of surviving too long. (Killing Taffy leaves alive enough people who would die over you to reach F3)
But neither of those are slam-dunks. My job is to keep solving and work out who correctly to vote. And then convince who-ever is the town of you to vote with me.
And it's my fault I've been lazily expecting to die tbh.
Yeah that is why I am saying that is something Ladd and I have to talk about and be sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
It is very much a thunderdome between us and you are just clear or we think you are the wolf based on mechanics and both vote you.
And I am very aware that me putting this out there is you are a villager fucks up my position in a possible thunderdome that follows.
But it is final 3 and I am simply not willing to lose because my paranoia was correct.
Vesting and shooting someone n1 is a really great play if you know what is happening next.
It is an odd play for you to do n1 without the knowledge of the moving parts.
If you are wolf it has to be a hail marry desperation move.
You are the last voter on monty the cw to the d1 wolf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemma
Which in your defense was always the vote you were going for that day you were just being silly until then.
As wolf with sleep and barto on your team and knowing you will get some heat (and you got forced to claim d2 which means it was the perfect play in hindsight as either alignment) going for a weird hail marry is somewhat reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
The problem is that you have to find a way to stay alive until f3 and nobody sussing you out for it.
Which is a fairly hard prediction to make n1 when you take that action.
This is not helping me as much as I was hoping it would.
Why do I have to be the one doing the due diligence in final 3?
Why can't you be a proper pr and just die in the night?
This is either the biggest waste of my fucking time or the only way for us to win the game.
And this game felt like it should have been won days ago.
Do you want to know the worst part?
All of this explains :
Who shoots visor?
It was never about visor and always a play and everyone knows he is the right person to get played.
I love you visor and you know this, but this is too funny to not bring up.
But also Ladd shoots visor because Ladd is a natural-bornkillercoward.
*shrug*
I was actually gonna snap tammy over you after the last post you made lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Jan
Now i am just confused
Back to sleep
If jan just kills ender in the night he probably wins?
Otoh its hard to vote ender mechanically...but man ender being a wolf makes so much sense based on play while jan being a wolf makes little sense
Dude is fucking villagery
I ll think about it tomorrow, adieu
I went through d1 searching "ender" and took all the posts that either included confirmed wolves or stayed in my head.
All the interactions between sleep and ender d1.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Enders main reads on myself and Ladd on d1.
Not really important, but since we are the final 3 it felt correct to include.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
This is just visor having ender as his main wolfread d1 and then getting vested by ender the following night.
I'll be honest. I am less likely to vest someone that is not even capable of reading me correctly this game (just increases wolf equity).
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Important to note is that both ender and sleep voted wisdom until the very last second at which point Ender tied the monty wagon with El Barto.
none of this is clear cut w/w but also just never unaligned which was honestly the reason I was doing it.
I believe anything after n1 does not matter for wolf interactions because it basically became a lone wolf versus world kind of game.
I will likely be here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Eating my nails.
The fact that there is just a chance that I am going from undesirable to undeniable in f3 after the last two days of watching the insane clown pose (cape/rask/ender) trying to burn me alive is fun.
But also it does not help me solve this mess.
To anyone who cares:
Enders interaction with sleep ~feels to me similar to poking your partner but letting them go easy. just a little non-threatening dance
just like - prod your partner in public to
a. force them to play
b. force an interaction
c. look like you are solving
The last gif is the only part that feels slightly too much. Because it is kind of officially ending the interaction.
If I were a wolf then my early vote on El Barto would have been the same but he never showed up again.
But like this is honestly nothing.
And all I need is to figure out the mechanics because that should simply solve this game.
Its just that for ender to be a wolf he d need to haveQuote:
Originally Posted by Jan
A) shot and vested visor on the same night
B) village only has 1 pr and wopves have tge exact counter to it (doesnt seem impossible i guess?)
The funny thing is that i am somehow still leaning on him being the wolf lol
His d1 was so wolfy
Think about it for a while but the question here is really what pr could wolves have to even out this setup (that has not been shown so far)?Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
I agree that it is very much a Hail marry play to make.
When you design this setup you really have to assume that both prs use their one-shot ability on n1.
Rolecop or roleblock are borderline useless.
They clearly did not have their own extra KP because the game is still going.
I hate trying to solve this game based on setup but with ender alive we simply have to question this.
And yes a vest is a possible counter to the vig but that is very much why it has actual use for wolves outside of confirming a wolf.
You can either take away 1 kp from the village if you have a wolf under pressure and have somewhat lucky timing OR you can play it for the cred and buy yourself a reason to survive.
I don't remember you having that read d1.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
you read his initial post v d1 and then switched it here.
this is what you said when prodded by visor d1:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visor
I will look if you had that read on his eod on d2.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
okay, fuck me. your first post d2 is this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
you're not trying to play me. good to know.
Just as a heads-up - I have no intention of playing this out over 48 hours.
I get timezones and people being busy but I myself will not spend 48 hours on this game before rolling the dice and letting fate decide.
Yea i will vote earlier too
I may be tempted to vote right now tbh lol
Yea i wrote a fairly big case on him d2 that i think made a ton of senseQuote:
Originally Posted by Jan
If it was not for mech id kill him in a heartbeat
I wanted to wake up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Make a single post to unload my brain.
Then vote.
But that was when I expected Tammy to be around.
Do you think two village prs versus only goons is a reasonable setup at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Because I cannot come up with any wolf power that fits this setup in any way and would still be hidden.
I am reading jan posts and i just dont see a wolf
If he is, then he has me completely fooled
Now i dont think i am jan #1 friend or anythjng but i gotta have played at least 50 games with him at this point and i juust dont seem him as a wolf
Congrats to him if so cause ender voting is prob comjng in next post
Sorry if its wrong but to me the difference in villageriness overcomes the mech
I dunno setup is weird to me regardless of what ender is?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan
But i think gemma comes froma different background than me so i am just not used to it
I have seen similar setups by voxx on dlp and gemma has played a long time over there too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Voxx loves to give wolves a power that feels useless like wolf doctor in a low power game.
Vest goes one step further but it also is so much more confirmable than a doc.
vote:enderwiggins
Sorry if its a throw. I am not finding jan wolf this game
My bad if he is one
Post something plz
Our shared games are mostly mashes and some invitational/anon games.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
I am a villager and I am just not sure.
I can see a perfect narrative for either of you and both just make so much sense.
Ender being allowed to live in the shadows of the town as confirmed until now.
You playing the endgaming lone wolf knowing you have to bus your partner sleep.
The big difference is that your vote on el barto could be easy distancing, but I think you would maybe be more decisive on that one if you re a wolf with el bart and sleep on your team.
Because all of us had you as the low accountability bus vote on that wagon. And that is exactly what you don't really want to be as a good wolf.
you are fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
I on the hand am still fucking lost.
Votal 6.1
Ender (1) - ladd (#1310)
Votes are locked.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Thank god lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Jan
Wait a sec i ll get to the pc and convince you
I have lost count of how many times i have posted
Objectively you are 10x more villagery Ladd.
The problem is that I respect your wolfgame a lot and your ability to sound villagery and this game has been a lone wolf mess d2 onwards.
Which makes this really hard.
I think going into the day as a wolf you would have doubled down on voting me.
With me questioning ender I kind of gave you a curveball to consider if you're a wolf.
I don't really think that would have been high on your list of expected plays.
So have I. But this is final 3 and I should still be less than 25, I hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Also just to be sure and out of respect to him regardless of what you say I will always give ender time to return and post as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
As much as I don't want this to go 48 hours I simply cannot throw this by voting him while he is asleep.
yea, your posting f3 honestly saved the game (kinda)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan
I had you as a villager after your last post of ysterday but i still would have found it hard to vote for ender today if you had not posted so well in f3
idt i vote so early as a wolf tbh, ender was on you yesterday after all. I can just wait and maybe he misvotes
as for why ender is a wolf, i'll ust requote my case from d2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
actually 32 posts. well since I don't have to convince anyone anymore that should be enough to put down a vote.
i am cool with bussing but
1) i hate having to explain why i am alive in f3, now it lined up nicely cause of the PRs and visor stuff but ya
2) i still vastly prefer to win before F3s cause while I don't HATE wolfing, i def ratehr end the game earlier
3) i don't buss both wolves in the same exact way lmao
4) me and visor were the only 2 players to vote both wolf wagons
5) ender's eod1 is the wolfiest thing in the game
6) i have tried to revalaute every step of the way, i have given the villagers who have been mislunched this game basically eveyr possible beenfit of the doubt (just check how many time si went back and forth on rask, i had wisdom as a slightl villa lena before the ender/visor stuff, i was a bit unfari to cape the last day i guess but otherwis emostly had him as villa)
7) i have made the suboptimal mislunch every step of the way if I am a wolf - d4 people came out gun abalzing to mislunch suibian after sleep flip and i defended them when suibian is obviously a far better mislunch for me
8) i truly believe my find yesterday to clear suibian was sick and something i would not find as a wolf
9) sleep was TMIing me villa d2 and leaning on me in a way wolves do on villagers (see their vote on ender sheeping me)
also looking back this was an extremely wolfy post lolQuote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
i went back and forth on this post a ton d1 but lesson learned for the future
i'll go have breakfast
if you plan to ever vote me plz ping me before and wait for me to return
adieu
There is a part of me that wants to slam the vote just to get the reveal.
This town is colder now
I think it's sick of us
It's time to make our move
I'm shakin' off the rust
I've got my heart set on anywhere but here
I'm staring down myself, counting up the years
Steady hands just take the wheel
Every glance is killing me
Time to make one last appeal for the life I lead
Stop and stare
I think I'm moving, but I go nowhere
Yeah, I know that everyone gets scared
But I've become what I can't be
Stop and stare
You start to wonder why you're here not there
And you'd give anything to get what's fair
But fair ain't what you really need
Oh, can you see what I see
I don't even think this song is all that great, but I had some lines stuck in my head thinking about this game.
i pinky promise i am a villager
(but really ama, i am not often in f3s as a villager so genuinely am not sure what to say now that i voted lol)
Votal 6.2
Ender (1) - ladd (#1310)
Votes are locked.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I don't need you right now tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
I need Ender to check in, vomit anything he can think of in here, and then I need to decide which side I fall on.
I just owe it to everyone who signed up for this game villagers and wolves alike to let both sides speak.
I hate this situation as much as you do, trust me.
I am curious what he comes up with cause i think i am pretty impossible to case this game unless you just lean into the paranoia
Btw the vest play was pretty sick and i appreciate these type of plays, def made a game thatvwould have been over a lot sooner way spicier
Friday is a terrible day for me to deal with F3. Literally work into after-work things and now it's 3am.
Vote: Ladd
Has made it easier on me but I am glad that my day start thought was right.
Tbh I prefer being in the face off for f3, makes me less stressed overall lmao.
Why would Taffy die N1 as wolf if wolves had reason to believe that she could be false hmmmmmmmQuote:
Originally Posted by ladd
I had thoughts on Ladd's D1 sus changing around being sus if you remember.
Also if I was wolf I feel like playing "Keep Visor alive to create paranoia" would absolutely be something I do. Also because it becomes less of a me thing then.
I also don't just case Sui/Sleep > Lead on Sleep > Drop the Sui side of the case later.
I can't say much about my posting because I seem to be easily sussed as town in the first place (Ladd has used me as ml bait in games he got wolf and I randed town. I mentioned it earlier because him D1/2 pushing me is exactly what he did last time he randed wolf too. He knows I'm not the greatest at reading people who pressure him and I also just tip over randomly because I don't have the ability to defend myself super well. But that's all meta so means tosh and all.)
Feeling kinda frustrated I just gave up on that push earlier when he told me off for sussing him just because he pushed on me tbh
I also want to point out that Ladd really wants cred for how Sleep "TMI'd him as villager". Which is actually something I see wolves do where they do something specifically for x reaction and when they don't get that cred or reaction they keep pointing at it.
And he also has tried very hard to buddy up to you with his "Your posting really solidified this f3 for me, you posted so well in f3".
Which is how he's treated you a fuck ton this game.
I also feel like if I was wolf I would've picked one of you to target overnight and actually prepared stuff instead of sitting here trying to work it out.
But again, that's not really something that helps you here. Metametametameta.
I need to sleep tbh. I'll be back after sleeping. Sorry. ><
Oh thanks for the reminderQuote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
Having 2 roles able to protect on n1 was a bit weird so wolves would have an easier time buying taffy claim if they knew ender wasnt real :curtain:
Suibian was generally considered the clearest. Why would you pick me or jan?Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
i'll pop in once more in a couple of hours real quick, otherwise i'll be back tomorrow morning
adieu
Pick you or Jan to target during the day, not kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
As in I would've prepared material.
I also have played a lot with Taffy and could've told you that claiming like that wasn't really her style as actual PR.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
So if I was wolf I'd probably be more worried about another pr that hasn't claimed at all.
Tbh with you if I was wolf idk why I don't just start with Jan/you because the game comes apart a lot more if the claims come into question and stay alive and I get a lot less of "why is the pr not dead yet".
Pointless musing but an interesting thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
This is just into D2.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Every post was either the first post where Ladd says you're obvious villager, until last day phase where he floated the idea you might be wolf.
At that point you aggressively accused him of being wolf if he swapped and he backed down hard and then went back to being all "Look at how villagery Jan is being!" this day phase.
Like I understand y'all have meta between you but even before the end of d1 he was parroting it.
Directly calls out the idea of changing votes/shaking wagons when making the el barto post. Didn't properly show up for EOD and may not have seen the wagon turn into an actual wagon given it was stuck on 2 votes for a lot of the time. (I need to check this but trying to get as much as I can done before I need to get into things I have scheduled today.)Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
This post on Ladd from sleep is very lol-partner tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleep
Also Sui pointed out that Sleep's laziness indicated it might be that he just trusted his partner to go the distance. Would that really be the case if he just lazily sheeped Ladd onto me and made me a top wagon?
Oh yeah taffy super townread me lmao. Yeah idk why I'd N2 that.
Zoned out and don't have any more time. I wanted to make some closing remarks but I just... am really annoyed I let ladd go when I was sussing him correctly. (Read changing was around the way he moved me down/sussed me the moment I started getting heat from other people and moved Rask down after he started getting heat. Both were people he called town and then was just like "I thought about it and changed my mind.")
A heads up that I will end this game in 8-10 hours.
If you have anything of importance to present do it.
Not certain what will sway me more and will look through some more stuff in the morning.
glgl
sadly not true. taffy wanted you dead until you claimed pr. after that everyone townread/ignored you.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
and if you killed taffy you did it to make sure you have a reason to be alive later in the game.
If sleep is your partner that knows you have a claim clearing you today then the answer is yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
and if ladd is a wolf then they didn't know for sure and it was a fine pile-on.
yeah this is why I said d2 that ladd was the most likely bus vote on el barto.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
You both had eod1 that easily could be from a wolf. you voting monty last second to protect el barto and ladd with the easy distancing vote before el barto became an actual wagon.
I think that you as a wolf would feel reasonable to simply get the hammer today as long as people believe tammy dying was okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
I think the later half he would do as either alignment because if he is a villager it is simply the truth and either way he wants to get me on his side.
A little bit of brownnosing never hurts there.
The sleep tmi is something I have noticed.
With all of this critique to your posts don't get me wrong I am still unsure. I think as a wolf your perception of your own game would be less off.
And I somewhat believe what you're saying and your frustration.
I am just not sure if your frustration comes from ladd turning on you today and you having to play or from you being stuck in f3 when you expected to die etc.
I think my best way to solve this is to either get a villa read on you or not.
Ladd to me is good at mimicking his playstyle as wolf (if he wants to) and the best way is to find his reads and if he was pushing wolves or villagers etc (and more importantly clearing wolves for bad reasons).
But this was basically a lone wolf game which means I simply cannot use that tool.
But if I can lock you as villa within the next couple of hours then my read on him is less important (and neither is the mechanical view)
I am here in 20 mins
23
idk i think my case i already quoted from d2 on ender is petty spot on but i'll try to expand a bit:
he calls every single monty post wolfy, while everything started from this:Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
which he then claimed was a serious voteQuote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
again, this is the classic example of a wolf turning a rvs vote in a full push
also, his push on monty is the same to the one he made on syn in this game (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...er-GAME-THREAD) where they just stuck in a tunnel on a vilager and called everything from them wlfy
(i am sorry i tried to find the post but with this iso function it was impossible and i was wasting too much time)
24
Eod1:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemma
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visor
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
thats all ender posted before sniing monty at :00
he did not ackwoledge the bart wagon AT ALL (and he had at least 5 minutes to do so, since barto was tied last 5 mins of the day)
he votes wisdom/monty, ackwoledge the vots on rask but says nothing on barto
again, classic wolf defending their teammate by attacking another villager instead of getting their hands dirty with a defense
other point:
ender voting you out yesterdy was optimal fo a wolf becaus ethen you have rask in f3 AND you break up the jan/suibian that are hard v reading each other
me voting out rask was suboptimal, i was gonna get into a super hard f3 regardless. i was prob gonna lose you/me/suibian and if i brought ender to f3 i coudlnt really imagine you would turn on him (i guess i could have hoped ender would vote you but i mean if that was the case...why did i vote him 6 hous into the day lmao). if i bring rask in f3 and mislunch you in f5 its a lot easier for me
i think ender said i didnt cause of you last post, but that was post was like at 2 am, i def had no plan on showing back up to change my vote lol
26
and still on the argument of f3 votes - ender was probably 50-50 to vote me/you
i could have just waited and there was a chance i win by doing nothing
27
w/w ehehQuote:
Originally Posted by Sleep
i dont think sleep would out of their way to call me specifically null when i was getting villa read (mostly) but ymmvQuote:
Originally Posted by Sleep
"sheeping ladd" is pretty unlikely to be w/w iyamQuote:
Originally Posted by Sleep
and they sheeped me on ender because they KNOW that ender has the claim so this vote probably gives them credit for end game(in fact i fell for it and called them not w/w d2)
again with the pocketQuote:
Originally Posted by Sleep
29
yes because you had the claim lolQuote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
they died cause they claimed joat ldoQuote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
my change on you was correct so i won't comment on it. it only makes sense to consider from the pov of villa you which isnt a real povQuote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
but jesus, i gave rask every possible benefit of the doubt all game while they were pushed (i am sorry for the mislunch btw, i think you were super findable but i was just not getting to ender until f3). if you read my iso i changed my mind on them a ton of times and said both d2/d3 that i don't want them lunched at the end
30