Converting Civilization3 unit animations

I know there is already an unit anim thread but I think this is important so I start a new thread.

Before BG can find some time to draw his landskenchts for PMTW, I decide to try to convert my favourite landsknecht unit by Kinboat(from the CFC forum) from Civ3 to MTW, thanks to my experience of converting Civ3 unit to EU2-ftg, it is not too difficult to me.

Let me show a quick test, just one standing frame of the landsknecht:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...0&d=1455985465

Two screenshot in game, the first one shows the unit anim at its original size, while in the second one I increase the size to 220 using the gnome editor:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...1&d=1455985465
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...9&d=1455985465


As you notice, it has no faction colour now, but I think it is possible to add later by replacing the colour plate.
And the height of the landsknecht is just about 4/5 to 3/4 of the PMtW unit anim left to him, though I increase its size too 220. Nothing more I can do to this…

Generally speaking I'm statisfied with its performance in game. What do you think of it? Making a full animation cost many time, if you think it is worth to do so I would like to finish at least the landsknecht graphic.


One question: the Civ3 anim use 15 frame per action while MTW use 12, how should I deal with this? (though it would not be a problem for standing action)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

And the height of the landsknecht is just about 4/5 to 3/4 of the PMtW unit anim left to him, though I increase its size too 220. Nothing more I can do to this…

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You can increase the soldier size (texture) 2 times and then scale them down to appropriate size via SCALE factor in UNIT_PROD. Of course, it can be a problem to fit all soldier poses in one texture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

Generally speaking I'm statisfied with its performance in game. What do you think of it? Making a full animation cost many time, if you think it is worth to do so I would like to finish at least the landsknecht graphic.

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Could you upload any unit animations form Civ3? I'd like to see the format they use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

One question: the Civ3 anim use 15 frame per action while MTW use 12, how should I deal with this? (though it would not be a problem for standing action)

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I'd drop 4, 8 and 12th frame. It will cause a little jumps in animation but probably unnoticeable.

I'm not at my computer now so can't upload anything. However, you can find civ3 units here:http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60

They're in flc format, and there is a tool to convert them into pcx.
Please read these two thread, they explain a lot about them:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...st-hour.679417
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...n-units.741529

Brilliant. I planned to do it myself and got permissions for that from CIv3 forum.

Sadly my graphics skills are almost non existent and I've barely managed to deal with icons and info_info pics.

Those animations would be perfect.

-DELETE-

Edit:OK, I fix it, It is becasue the way I calculate x0, y0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

One question: the Civ3 anim use 15 frame per action while MTW use 12, how should I deal with this? (though it would not be a problem for standing action)

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Just checked it and animation without 4, 8 and 12th frame still looks good enough for me.

15 frames
Attachment 17585

12 frames
Attachment 17584

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stazi

Just checked it and animation without 4, 8 and 12th frame still looks good enough for me.

15 frames
Attachment 17585

12 frames
Attachment 17584

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Thansks, I did that!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stazi

You can increase the soldier size (texture) 2 times and then scale them down to appropriate size via SCALE factor in UNIT_PROD. Of course, it can be a problem to fit all soldier poses in one texture.

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I check them in battle and found that the size is acceptable if I increase the scale to 225. Don't need this method, but thank you anyway!

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Ok, the full landsknecht animation is done. Anyone want to test it ingame can download it from the attachment of this post.
But still no faction colour yet, haven't find a way to add it.

The Screenshots show that Bavarian Doppelsoldners fighting the Saxon Pikemen:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...7&d=1456040863
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...8&d=1456040863

Quality not good enough, as I expected.

And sadly, civ3 anims don't differentiate Walk, Run and Charge action, so they use the same in game.

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Edit:

Re-upload the Doppelsoldner.RAR file.

Attachment 17592

It works ok, only shadow it's too big IMHO. But you can leave it for now. Details like this can be changed in the end when we will have nothing else to do.
Soldiers are still too small so reducing the size of other units is a must.

EDIT
It's strange. On your screens they look nearly the same size but on mine they are way too small although I set scale to 225.

EDIT2
They are ok. Forget all about the size I wrote above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stazi

Attachment 17592

It works ok, only shadow it's too big IMHO. But you can leave it for now. Details like this can be changed in the end when we will have nothing else to do.
Soldiers are still too small so reducing the size of other units is a must.

EDIT
It's strange. On your screens they look nearly the same size but on mine they are way too small although I set scale to 225.

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I suggest you to use this BIF, which I haven't change to blue palette to green... I upload the green one by mistake, will reupload it.

Any way to add faction colour?

Alright, a faction colour version is done! Not perfect though.


http://images.akamai.steamuserconten...C43991F2D3FE7/
http://images.akamai.steamuserconten...FF7111790CD63/
http://images.akamai.steamuserconten...52068DBA02693/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

Any way to add faction colour?

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My method is probably not very professional but works for me. btw I use Photoshop CS6.

Start with creating two palettes - one for pinks only and one for greens only. Something like this:
Attachment 17594

1. Select the area you want to change into faction colors.

2. Make a new layer with the selected area

3. Duplicate the layer to the new file

4. Change the image mode (of the new file) to the indexed color. In the popup window choose Custom palette and find one of those two palettes you created. Photoshop will change and remap colors automatically.
Attachment 17596

5. If the result satisfies you copy the selected area again and paste it into the layer you created in 2nd step.

6. Repeat steps for all green/pink areas.

7. When done you will have to flatten the image and change to indexed color. Of course, you will need full palette containing all the colors to properly transform the image to the indexed mode.

Thanks Stazi!
I found that colours in the last two line of the colour table will show as faction colour ingame, no mater they're Green/Pink or not:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...2&d=1456054984
My method to add faction colour is: open the frame 1.bmp with GIMP, open the colour table, drag the colours you want to show as faction colour to the last two line, save this bmp. Use this bmp as the tamplate, copy other frame on it and save.

I like your method. It's certainly faster than mine. Good work!

Very good.

I usually copied/pasted to opened .BMP files extracted from the game replacing old animations.



About the mounts - Stazi could you check if mounts added to those larger files cause problems with new factions? Some files tended to cause CTDs when used by added factions and I'd like to be sure.

If there are no problems some files used by horses/camels can be spared and at least to could be assigned to Landsknechte units which have to be available to new factions.


@zweihander

If mounts give us free graphic entries to use it is safe to give the Landsknechts two animation directories occupied by mounts Stazi will clear.

If you really need more tell us, but two is rather generous.


CiV3 animations give a number of interesting options. Personally I am interested in armoured handgunners in a Russian pack.

It will be useful for a number of units in E Europe esp. Russia and Georgia, perhaps even Persia.

Attachment 17604

If you don't know which pack it is from I'll try to locate it.


Overall if we can clear some directories they can be used. Perhaps even one for more than one type of animation. Seems to be easier with handgunner/musketeer units and we really need some diversity - something for the Balcans (Albania, Greece) and Turkey, something for Scotland and something more for muslim states. If we could use larger frames they all probably could fit into one or two directories.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

About the mounts - Stazi could you check if mounts added to those larger files cause problems with new factions? Some files tended to cause CTDs when used by added factions and I'd like to be sure.

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Quote:

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Now, the problem was that game crashes occured as the newly defined faction left the campaign
map for the battle map--oddly this crash would only occur with certain units (e.g., peasants,
highland clansmen, kerns, etc.). I discovered that only those units which were culled from texture
folders associated with face-shields caused the crash. Units drawn from texture folders which are
Adding New Faction Guide for Viking Invasion
21
not associated with face-shields (e.g., archers--which use the texture folder "Pestunic")do not
cause a battle crash. Therefore newly defined factions, such as FN_FREE21 //WELSH, cannot
utilize units which are drawn from the following bif texture folders, as they are associated with
face-shields:
"Peasant"
"ChainHlm"
"HlPlArSH"
"LArmWCav"
"MKnight"
"MSHelm"
"PlateS"

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-----Adding New Faction in VI guide, By starkhorn

As I know, only these 7 folder will cause CTD.

Currently, I simply place the new landskencht anim into LtOpHelm, which is the currently folder for Doppelsoldner unit, the other units in PMTW also using this folder are Gallowglass and Opolcheniye. I move Gallowglass and Opolcheniye to use the 'Peasant' anim. No idea you would like this idea or not...

Here is a unit I want to convert(and I have already converted it to FTG! which will reduce my work to convert it to MTW), the Estalian Swordsman, it would be useful for those Sword&Shield units in PMTW.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo..._Y30_thumb.pnghttp://ww4.sinaimg.cn/large/81279371...208c08xglw.jpg
But unfortunately, converting the landsknecht cost me a whole day, as school days begin, I would not have time to convert Civ3 uits anymore, at least recently.

Actually, converting civ3 units is not very difficult but need time and great patience. If any one want to learn how to convert, I can tell you the key progress.(but only to those who already have some experience of dealing with unit animations BIF files of MTW, I have no time to write a complete tutorial for beginners, sorry)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

About the mounts - Stazi could you check if mounts added to those larger files cause problems with new factions? Some files tended to cause CTDs when used by added factions and I'd like to be sure.

If there are no problems some files used by horses/camels can be spared and at least to could be assigned to Landsknechte units which have to be available to new factions.

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Ok. I'll check it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

If any one want to learn how to convert Civ3 units, I can tell you the key progress.(but only to those who already have some experience of dealing with unit animations BIF files of MTW, I have no time to write a complete tutorial for beginners, sorry)

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Please, write it as detailed as you can. I hope I'll get the idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

-----Adding New Faction in VI guide, By starkhorn

As I know, only these 7 folder will cause CTD.

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I know, but with so many discoveries we might also meet new problems and I want to be true with the horses/camels before we clear those directions for our needs.

Quote:

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Currently, I simply place the new landskencht anim into LtOpHelm, which is the currently folder for Doppelsoldner unit, the other units in PMTW also using this folder are Gallowglass and Opolcheniye. I move Gallowglass and Opolcheniye to use the 'Peasant' anim. No idea you would like this idea or not...

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Yes, it is fine. Opolcheniye will be altered somehow anyway, right now it appears way too often. Gallowglass might need new animations if we find time and space - could be useful for some Georgian and Circassian units, perhaps even for something in the Balcans and elsewhere.

Quote:

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Actually, converting civ3 units is not very difficult but need time and great patience. If any one want to learn how to convert, I can tell you the key progress.(but only to those who already have some experience of dealing with unit animations BIF files of MTW, I have no time to write a complete tutorial for beginners, sorry)

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Oh, yes - the end of the New Year break. I've forgotten about it.

We have time for the animations. If the Dopplen. animations are done we can have them in 1.6. - the rest can wait so no hurry.


I'll stick the thread because it deserves to be close to the top.

This is a guide of CIv3 unit conversion.

1,Basic infomation about Civ3 unit graphic:

First, you can find civ3 units here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...p?do=cat&id=23
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60

the unit graphic of Civ3 are in FLC format, now, download the FLICster. And open the FLC file with FLICster, you can view the animations in this program:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...9&d=1456119403
Now export them into PCX format, click Export, click Export Type, and use this setting:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...2&d=1456125282
Then set the Output Directory and click 'Export', you get 8 PCX file now.

2, See the PCX file
The PCX file looks like this:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...1&d=1456119701
Now, we have 3 problem that hinder us to turn the PCX into MTW bif format:
1, the background colour is not 0,128,0
2, the shadow colour is not black
3, this is most important, the Civ3 engine allow the edge of the unit surround by many semi-transparent magenta pixels, which represent shadows in Civ3 engine. But the MTW engine doesn't allow this, the edge of the unit must be 'sharp' in MTW engine.

3, Get rid of the problems
Now let's get rid of these 3 issues.

Open the PCX with GIMP

Change the picture to RGB mode (it is in IMAGE > MODE)

Set the Foreground color to 0,128,0 , and set the Background color to black.

Choose the 'select by color tool' on the Toolbox.

Further down on the Toolbox, uncheck the Edge Smoothing and reduce 'Threshold' from the default value of 15 down to zero. This will allow you to choose a single colour on the image instead of several similar ones.

Use the 'select by color tool', and click the center part of the shadow of a unit frame. Now you select the main part of the shadow, but still some shadow pixels around in lighter colour are not under your selection.

press Shift, and select the lighter colour shadow pixels around to add them in your selection, continue doing this until all shadow pixels of this PCX are under your selection.

now, press 'ctrl' and '.' at the same time, now all pxiels under your selection are fill with the Background color(black).

Use the 'select by color tool' again, this time we frist click the pink background. Now you select the main part of the background, but still some shadow pixels around the unit in lighter pink are not under your selection.

press Shift, and select the lighter pink pixels around the unit to add them in your selection, continue doing this until all pink pixels of this PCX are under your selection.

now, press 'ctrl' and ',' at the same time, now all pxiels under your selection are fill with the Foreground color(0,128,0).

Until now we're get rid of all the 3 issues we have mention above, save the PCX in a format you prefer.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...3&d=1456125776
4, Next step?
I want to say nothing more about the next step, chop up the image you have already deal with, create a new BMP file, and put the units into the correct place of the 12 frame of BMPs...

Please ask me if you meet any problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

I know, but with so many discoveries we might also meet new problems and I want to be true with the horses/camels before we clear those directions for our needs.



Yes, it is fine. Opolcheniye will be altered somehow anyway, right now it appears way too often. Gallowglass might need new animations if we find time and space - could be useful for some Georgian and Circassian units, perhaps even for something in the Balcans and elsewhere.




Oh, yes - the end of the New Year break. I've forgotten about it.

We have time for the animations. If the Dopplen. animations are done we can have them in 1.6. - the rest can wait so no hurry.


I'll stick the thread because it deserves to be close to the top.

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Thanks for stick the thread!
The doppelsoldner unit anim is finished, the file in the #10 post is the final version.(Edit the file in post #30 now)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

About the mounts - Stazi could you check if mounts added to those larger files cause problems with new factions? Some files tended to cause CTDs when used by added factions and I'd like to be sure.

If there are no problems some files used by horses/camels can be spared and at least to could be assigned to Landsknechte units which have to be available to new factions.

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For tests I chose Mousquetaires Du Roi because the unit uses "critical" MSHelm folder. For horses I chose the most popular LiHorse forder.

First, I gave them to ALL_FACTIONS and started a few custom battles. Unfortunately, this unit cause CTD with new factions like Khazan, Livonia, etc. The new 1024p textures, obviously, cause CTD too.

Second, I changed the texture in LiHorse and MSHelm folders (leaving Mousquetaires Du Roi to FN_FRENCH as intended). This time all worked smoothly. No crashes.

Both steps were tested with several different units and faction setups.

Conclusions:

1. Technically, 1024p textures works the same as 512p. CTDs are caused by "critical" folders and new factions, not textures.

2. Resizing mount textures to 1024p have to be followed by resizing all riders' folders (they have to be proportional because mounts don't have their own SCALE parameter). It involves changing/tuning all animations rectangles. Weapons and shields too. The whole procedure makes cavalry smaller so all infantry has to be scaled down accordingly or changed to 1024p too. Smaller models need also changes in UNIT_PROD (parameters like: RADIUS, FORMATION_WIDTH_SPACING, FORMATION_LENGTH_SPACING). Without it all units looks like in loose formation all the time. It looks the same like reducing a unit SCALE - leaves too much space between soldiers.

The whole process is quite easy but very time consuming. It can be done for 2.0 but probably not for 1.6.
All this testing thing gave me some new ideas. I let you know if I find something interesting.

Ok, so we cannot use this approach unless ALL graphic files for units are changed as well? Is that right?

Have you encountered any problems with the palette e.g. some animations are impossible to import to the same, larger file with other animations? I think it could be a problem in some cases.


There are units in the game which are using Shogun TW and Middle Earth mod graphics - almost only for Tartar cavalry.

I wonder if LiHorse horses and those animations where the WHOLE horse & rider is placed can be thrown into the same file (similar colours should help) and used as a testing subjects.
I wonder if in the case of combined horse & rider supported by imported LiHorse graphics animations manipulating the scale will be easier and give us something which can be fielded side by side with the older graphics.

Original LiHorse would stay where it is right now, but this new file could include Tartars and horse animations from LiHorse (besides it is necessary for Tartar units with two steeds) - this way it could work better and won't require too many changes + could serve us well in the future saving space and in the end clear original LiHorse directory for something else.





BTW I realise how time consuming the process is, but perhaps in thise unique case results will be easier to implement without the need to change all animations in the game.

Also, does Middle Earth or Napoleonic TW have other mount animations? I mean white or black horses. If in the end we will find ourselves with so much space in graphic files and all cavalrymen animations will have to be changed anyway we could add some variety also in this department.

Just to be clear I have permission to use NTW animations, but not LOTR graphics except the single one PMTW uses already.

Anyway that is for the much, much later stage.


I am looking forward to the new ideas if there are any. New graphics can wait, but if we learn more about those files it will save us some trouble in the future.

If for example we get rid off the 'troublesome', CTD causing directories because we won't need them anymore that would be a nice bonus, even though the units which use them are meant to be rare and unlikely to be received by bribery.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

Ok, so we cannot use this approach unless ALL graphic files for units are changed as well? Is that right?

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Generally, yes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

Have you encountered any problems with the palette e.g. some animations are impossible to import to the same, larger file with other animations? I think it could be a problem in some cases.

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I haven't encountered any problems till now. What do you have in mind exactly?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

There are units in the game which are using Shogun TW and Middle Earth mod graphics - almost only for Tartar cavalry.

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Yes, I saw them. Not all of them are used right now (in 1.5). IIRC textures from folders: MONGHCAV, PLATECAV and PLATES are not used at all in any of the 3 campaigns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

I wonder if LiHorse horses and those animations where the WHOLE horse & rider is placed can be thrown into the same file (similar colours should help) and used as a testing subjects.

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Do you mean like that mongol heavy cavalry from MONGHCAV folder combined with LiHorse texture? I think it'll work. You already use KHorse and EHorse folders for something totally different than horses. btw We have to remember that some horse folder names are linked to special features like ArmHorse and EHorse being armored and thus more resistant to enemy fire (I'm not sure about camel because there is a special column in UNIT_PROD file that specifies HORSE/CAMEL/NONE). But I think it only works that way when those folders are used for mounts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

I wonder if in the case of combined horse & rider supported by imported LiHorse graphics animations manipulating the scale will be easier and give us something which can be fielded side by side with the older graphics.

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Hmm.. nice idea. You mean like placing rider over a horse in one texture, in the same frame, right? This can work but rider combined with horse will make much bigger frames and thus less space for other units in texture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

Original LiHorse would stay where it is right now, but this new file could include Tartars and horse animations from LiHorse (besides it is necessary for Tartar units with two steeds) - this way it could work better and won't require too many changes + could serve us well in the future saving space and in the end clear original LiHorse directory for something else.

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If I understand it right, horses combined with riders won't save us that much space. As I said above, such animations will have much bigger frames, especially that you'll need to resize htem up at least 50% to have some space for SCALE manipulation. When you put 512p textures into 1024p texture, soldiers are always too small comparing to old ones (even with maxed SCALE). Hmm.. I'll make one unit in 1024p and you'll see how it looks.


BTW I realise how time consuming the process is, but perhaps in thise unique case results will be easier to implement without the need to change all animations in the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

Also, does Middle Earth or Napoleonic TW have other mount animations? I mean white or black horses.

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LOTR has one black horse. It's just recolored LiHorse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

Just to be clear I have permission to use NTW animations, but not LOTR graphics except the single one PMTW uses already.

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A few years ago I sent PMs to all creators form Middle-Eaath team I found. The one that answered said me something like "do whatever you want. No one really cares now".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stazi

I haven't encountered any problems till now. What do you have in mind exactly?

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Some files in PMTW include animations which were set to very specific colours, I do believe that if four different animations will be used in a single file it can cause some problems.

I'd suggest to try it in some cases - a single pose from a file each should be enough to see if the animations can 'co-exist' in the same file.

Quote:

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Yes, I saw them. Not all of them are used right now (in 1.5). IIRC textures from folders: MONGHCAV, PLATECAV and PLATES are not used at all in any of the 3 campaigns.

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They are in 2.0 and will be used in 1.6.

Quote:

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Do you mean like that mongol heavy cavalry from MONGHCAV folder combined with LiHorse texture? I think it'll work. You already use KHorse and EHorse folders for something totally different than horses. btw We have to remember that some horse folder names are linked to special features like ArmHorse and EHorse being armored and thus more resistant to enemy fire (I'm not sure about camel because there is a special column in UNIT_PROD file that specifies HORSE/CAMEL/NONE). But I think it only works that way when those folders are used for mounts.

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Something like that, but also in general files which right now feature a whole rider on a horse, and combined with a separate horse animation (LiHorse) on this 4 times bigger picture.

Quote:

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Hmm.. nice idea. You mean like placing rider over a horse in one texture, in the same frame, right? This can work but rider combined with horse will make much bigger frames and thus less space for other units in texture.

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Actually I thought about using the same file for four animations - including one of a horse and another with a rider on a horse (Tartar animations from STW) - placing them in the same 1024x1024 file could serve as a nice field for testing - to see how rider on a horse looks like compared to cavalry using old, 512x512 files.
Because this cavalry animation sometimes has to use two mounts (one unit) as I wanted it would be a nice place to keep LiHorse animation intended for future cavalry.
Right now it could be used to check if the problem with the scale can be solved by placing horse animation in the same place as rider animation and only by manipulating with numbers in unit_prod file.

Think of it as a temporary solution and a way to test something.

Quote:

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If I understand it right, horses combined with riders won't save us that much space. As I said above, such animations will have much bigger frames, especially that you'll need to resize htem up at least 50% to have some space for SCALE manipulation. When you put 512p textures into 1024p texture, soldiers are always too small comparing to old ones (even with maxed SCALE). Hmm.. I'll make one unit in 1024p and you'll see how it looks.

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I had to cut stuff from Shogun TW animations because STW graphics use two files for cavalry instead of one, so Tartars do not use all of moves available in STW, but about half of them (it was very had to choose).

On bigger 1024p files ALL STW graphics could be used and would take just a half of 1024p file. But it is perfectly enough if only current Tartar riding horse animation is imported and tested to see how a rider on a horse looks like and how much different can it be with different scale compared to the current cavalry.

Quote:

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LOTR has one black horse. It's just recolored LiHorse.

A few years ago I sent PMs to all creators form Middle-Eaath team I found. The one that answered said me something like "do whatever you want. No one really cares now".

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This means that black horses are available. White/grey ones can be used from NTW.

If one 1024p file will be used eventually for four mounts one LiHorse directory will give us a dazzling variety of unarmoured horses and will help in making some units visually different from others which use the very same rider animation.

In such a case:

Quote:

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btw We have to remember that some horse folder names are linked to special features like ArmHorse and EHorse being armored and thus more resistant to enemy fire

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one of those two directories could be given to better protected mounts or for units which had more than one mount kept in a reserve - something which doesn't have to be visable.

P.S. When it comes to PMTW animations we were trying to squeeze as much as possible in a single file.

This means that sometimes various units use various parts of a file. Could be a nightmare to convert to 1024p.

I'll better post images of the new map how I see it and upload the files.

It should be ready to Friday. I'll have to compare it to the event list before it is done.
It is better to use as many useful & meaningful event features as possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

If one 1024p file will be used eventually for four mounts one LiHorse directory will give us a dazzling variety of unarmoured horses and will help in making some units visually different from others which use the very same rider animation.

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Horses can have faction coloring like any other units. We can recolor some parts like harness or blanket under the saddle so every faction will have their own, slightly different looking horses.

Of course, but a variety of horses would be a nice thing.

Not now, but in the end when the conversion to 1024p is complete.

We have nothing but time for that if Civ3 animations can be converted relatively easily.


Easily compared to what we had to do before with YanTraken - he was drawing the poses and I've been copying/pasting them into .BMPs frame by frame and setting that in the game. Wonders of Windows Paint and MTW modding tools.




If even 8 new animations are added in the end it will be huge.

Hell, maybe I'll try to learn how to import Aztec and Inca warriors for custom game/MP game only factions.

Thanks to your discoveries we have at least a possibility and that is a lot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegorach

Easily compared to what we had to do before with YanTraken - he was drawing the poses and I've been copying/pasting them into .BMPs frame by frame and setting that in the game. Wonders of Windows Paint and MTW modding tools.

---

I know many unit anims in PMTW such as the RussianMusketeer(Str…), CossackMusketeer(Zapo…), Janissary, Free Lancer, Men at Arm etc. are obviously made by hand-drawing. But I'm curious about the Winged Hussar, which is the best quality unit anim and even better than the original MTW's, are they hand-drawing or convert to 2d from a 3d model?
(p.s. IIRC once I have saw a early Winged Hussar with only one wing animation in a directory(forget which one now), but I never see them in game? )

And as I said before, I have ask BG to draw some landsknechts(but he is quite busy right now), so I would just consider the Civ3 Landsknecht a tempory solution of the Doppelsoldner unit for 1.6--after all it is not in the best quality due to the original image's small size. What I have not mention brfore is that I ask BC to draw 4 kinds of landsknecht(Doppelsoldner, Forlorn hope, armoured Pike/Halberd/Musket, unarmoured Pike/halberd/Musket), and I was worry about there are no enough directories for them before. But not a problem right now! Once the 1024p method is done, I can easily put the 4 landsknechts in one bif, since they would be in similar colour it would not be hard to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegorach

Hell, maybe I'll try to learn how to import Aztec and Inca warriors for custom game/MP game only factions.

---

Well… Not a good idea IMO. Just think it is ridiculus to see Native Americans fighting in Europe…

---------------------------------------------------

Another problem I met is, if you want to add dead bodies in PMTW, and you use the 1024p method at the same time, you will find that when you increase the unit scale to 225, its dead body is increase to 225% size too, it means that a small man died on the battlefield would leave a giant dead body… Edit/remake the dead_bodies.LBM is necessary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

But I'm curious about the Winged Hussar, which is the best quality unit anim and even better than the original MTW's, are they hand-drawing or convert to 2d from a 3d model?
(p.s. IIRC once I have saw a early Winged Hussar with only one wing animation in a directory(forget which one now), but I never see them in game? )

---

Eastside Character made the original drawing (no poses, 4 angles) and YanTraken improved it.
One-wing Hussars are available in one campaign for P-L Commonwealth. It was designed with historical battles in mind.

Quote:

---

And as I said before, I have ask BC to draw some landsknechts(but he is quite busy right now), so I would just consider the Civ3 Landsknecht a tempory solution of the Doppelsoldner unit for 1.6--after all it is not in the best quality due to the original image's small size. What I have not mention brfore is that I ask BC to draw 4 kinds of landsknecht(Doppelsoldner, Forlorn hope, armoured Pike/Halberd/Musket, unarmoured Pike/halberd/Musket), and I was worry about there are no enough directories for them before. But not a problem right now! Once the 1024p method is done, I can easily put the 4 landsknechts in one bif, since they would be in similar colour it would not be hard to do so.

---

It is A LOT already. One of my favourite units actually, so nice somebody did the actual work.

Quote:

---

Well… Not a good idea IMO. Just think it is ridiculus to see Native Americans fighting in Europe…

---

Just for custom battles, much like Iroquis or Uzbeks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

Another problem I met is, if you want to add dead bodies in PMTW, and you use the 1024p method at the same time, you will find that when you increase the unit scale to 225, its dead body is increase to 225% size too, it means that a small man died on the battlefield would leave a giant dead body… Edit/remake the dead_bodies.LBM is necessary.

---

That's why I'm think we shouldn't try to keep the original unit size but rework all units to 1024p and leave them smaller (without changing the scale or eventually setting the same scale for all units). If we try to manipulate the scale of certain units, some bodies will be always bigger than others.

Update the Civ3 Doppelsoldner unit graphic. I fix some missing pixels manually, it should performs better ingame now.

http://images.akamai.steamuserconten...710A34216C527/
http://images.akamai.steamuserconten...97CDAA8F4A814/
http://images.akamai.steamuserconten...24C28A9B99787/


Edit: Ah... Sorry, fix a little bug, please download again...

Edit2: oh no, the attachment contains the wrong file, please download again... I promise this is the last edit...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stazi

CTDs are caused by "critical" folders and new factions, not textures.

---

I've done some tests and it appears that the problem persists no matter what tricks I try. The problem is not directly connected with new factions. First, 20 factions declared in startpos work flawlessly. This includes Scots (19th) and Moldavian (20th) which are new factions. All the next factions (21-30) have about 90% of causing CTD. Sometimes they work, especially when one of those 20 factions used the problematic unit folder before. So, it looks like some hardcoded limit form MTW 1.0 that devs forget to change in later, more mod friendly versions.

IMHO factions 21-30 should be the smallest and poorest of all to minimize the chance of bribery and CTD.

I think it would be more efficient to convert Civ3 units if we can cooperate together.

I already export the Estalian Swordsman(made by T-mun) into BMP format(files in the 'Custom6.rar' attachment) and already get rid of the background/shadow/semi-transparent pixels obstacles. The files are look like this:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...6&d=1456239869

The only remained step is to cut and paste these pieces into 12 BMP frames and import them into a BIF. Anyone like to help?:pray:

Hope someone can help with this, it would reduce my workload.:grin: If no one want to do this, I would find some time to finish the frames later.

I'll be glad to help but I have limited time too. I'm still working on those 1024p textures. I have some problems with weapons and shields placement as they are not as easy to define as animation frames. When I have more free time I'll let you know.

More tests and more results. First the file I've prepared:
Attachment 17632
LOTR black horse on the bottom right. Not as black as original mongol horse but I think black enough.


I declared Atli Tatarlar as "LIHORSE, YES, YES, LiHorse" and here are results:
Attachment 17631
A you can see spaces between soldiers have to be reduced.


How they look comparing to the size of Tatars from old 512p texture (below). You can see that old/big Tatars already use additinal small LiHorse (they use the same LiHorse folder for their mount). This is how they look without touching the SCALE.
An advantage is that smaller soldier sprites don't get anti-aliased and blurred that much as old, bigger units. They look sharp despite their low resolution.
Attachment 17630

So, i think we can use any combination we want. Using the same folder for horse and horse+rider is not a problem.

Good to see how it looks. Can you post images after you manipulate the scale of the models? Comparison with 'normal' animations will be nice to see.

Similar with cavalry which uses weapons - I suspect moving those spears can be tricky in 1024p file.


For now no need to convert the animations, that will take a lot of time which right now can be used for something more valuable.

Animations can wait as long as necessary to make them and as long as confortable it is to find time for this work - hardly most pleasant activity give the number of files to convert, in my opinion.

I think that if there are any ideas for new animations those can be made in 1024p files - won't be available in 1.6, but it will save the effort to rework them for 2.0.



It is a small wonder how much can be done with this game. Outstanding how much space for modding was left by the creators, I guess they never suspected we could use those possibilities whenever they've left those by mistake or intentionally...
after all all this stuff actually works in the game even if it is so far from the original.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegorach

Good to see how it looks. Can you post images after you manipulate the scale of the models? Comparison with 'normal' animations will be nice to see.

---

Scale set to max (225). On the right is new Atli Tatarlar, on the left old Izci Tatarlar. Surprisingly, they look exactly the same as the old ones. Usually there is a 20-30% difference.
Attachment 17634

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegorach

Similar with cavalry which uses weapons - I suspect moving those spears can be tricky in 1024p file.

---

I'll make one tomorrow. Yes, it's tricky because I can't use Excel to automate recalculation of frame rectangles. Readbif is a little cumbersome to use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegorach

It is a small wonder how much can be done with this game. Outstanding how much space for modding was left by the creators, I guess they never suspected we could use those possibilities whenever they've left those by mistake or intentionally...
after all all this stuff actually works in the game even if it is so far from the original.

---

Exactly! That's the main reason I enjoy digging in this stuff over and over again. Nearly, every time I found something I didn't know before. For example we use resized to 31px width (and thus distorted) EU2 shields for campaign map pieces while we can use use them as they are about 50px width. It's a small thing but ugliness of those shields really bothered me.

A question:
For example, if I put a unit animation into a 512p bif and set its scale too 100. Then I put the same unit animation to a 1024p bif and set its scale to 200, but no other changes, the colour table remain the same.
In this case, is there any difference between these two unit in game? any anti-aliased/blurred difference?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

A question:
For example, if I put a unit animation into a 512p bif and set its scale too 100. Then I put the same unit animation to a 1024p bif and set its scale to 200, but no other changes, the colour table remain the same.

---

They look very similar. Difference is very small if any.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

In this case, is there any difference between these two unit in game? any anti-aliased/blurred difference?

---

Image quality looks he same too.

But, as you mentioned before, their bodies will be different (twice as big for scale 200) because we have only one file with all bodies of the same size.

Thanks!

To those weapons and shields, I think move them to a 1024p bif only need to edit the CustomX/Weapons.txt, but don't need to edit the Items/WeaponX/UnitName.txt, is this right?

Got the permission from T-mun today and I finished the idle pose and test it in game.

Obviously, it is smaller than the Landsknecht I converted before though I increase its scale to 225, because Civ3 unit graphics are made in different size by different modders. But if we use the 1024p method in the future and all units are a bit smaller, this would not be a big problem IMO.

http://images.akamai.steamuserconten...E4317FEB1D363/
http://images.akamai.steamuserconten...5B388F0FCA19A/

[QUOTE=Stazi;2053687184]Scale set to max (225). On the right is new Atli Tatarlar, on the left old Izci Tatarlar. Surprisingly, they look exactly the same as the old ones. Usually there is a 20-30% difference.
Attachment 17634

So those odd, small horses are from which file - I assume the new one, right?

Quote:

---

I'll make one tomorrow. Yes, it's tricky because I can't use Excel to automate recalculation of frame rectangles. Readbif is a little cumbersome to use.

---

That makes all those unit animations where soldiers appear with weapons in their hands (most of infantry in PMTW) considerably easier to convert to 1024p. Good. There is a large number of those which could be easily (but time consuming) imported to bigger files. Good.

Quote:

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Exactly! That's the main reason I enjoy digging in this stuff over and over again. Nearly, every time I found something I didn't know before. For example we use resized to 31px width (and thus distorted) EU2 shields for campaign map pieces while we can use use them as they are about 50px width. It's a small thing but ugliness of those shields really bothered me.

---

Yes, the shileld problem really bothered me too, but I didn't want to test the engine with something like this. All the better it can be done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stazi

Scale set to max (225). On the right is new Atli Tatarlar, on the left old Izci Tatarlar. Surprisingly, they look exactly the same as the old ones. Usually there is a 20-30% difference.
Attachment 17634

---

In such a case we might be able to include them in 1.6 - solely for those couple of Tartar units (heavy cavalry can use old directory, no need to change it).
Mount files do not need to use old horse graphic directories? In this case no need to change LiHorse .txt, just add another one using the mount in re-scaled Tartar file.

By keeping the Tartar animations in the same animation directory they are now we'd avoid many problems - much less work with Unit.prod files, unit .txt files changed, but only those very few which alread use Tartar cavalry animations.
At the same time we could use the opportunity to test the graphics in the game a little earlier and it would spare some work in the future since the file will be already there.

Current LiHorse can stay the same right now and will be a useful directory to explore when/if all cavalry graphics are changed for 2.0.

BTW Here is the grey horse from NTW. I have a permission from years back so it can be used by us in the future.


graphics

Attachment 17636

action page

Attachment 17637

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

Thanks!

To those weapons and shields, I think move them to a 1024p bif only need to edit the CustomX/Weapons.txt, but don't need to edit the Items/WeaponX/UnitName.txt, is this right?

---

I have to edit every single charge, walk, fight.txt files. If I don't, weapons and shields float above soldiers heads. X,Y origin for weapons is related to a frame rectangle. 1024p textures have smaller frame rectangles (half height, half wight) and that's why all those weapon/shield animations have to be recalculated. But don't worry. I've found that they can be recalculated via Excel too. They just need different formulas.

There is also one more little issue about weapons in 1024p. It looks like this:
http://www.runners-world.pl/forum/up...1378806454.jpg

Poles are simply too thick. We'll probably need to manually edit texture and thinner them a bit. That's something I need to test.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegorach

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stazi

Scale set to max (225). On the right is new Atli Tatarlar, on the left old Izci Tatarlar. Surprisingly, they look exactly the same as the old ones. Usually there is a 20-30% difference.
Attachment 17634

---

So those odd, small horses are from which file - I assume the new one, right?

---

Izci Tatarlar on the left uses old 512p texture for soldier (MOCOSCAV) and new 1024p texture LiHorse folder for mount - "MOCOSCAV, YES, YES, LiHorse".
Atli Tatarlar on the right takes all graphics from the same LiHorse folder so horses have the same size - "LIHORSE, YES, YES, LiHorse"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegorach

That makes all those unit animations where soldiers appear with weapons in their hands (most of infantry in PMTW) considerably easier to convert to 1024p. Good. There is a large number of those which could be easily (but time consuming) imported to bigger files. Good.

---

I suggest to move Custom7, CUSTOM8, HUSCARLE and LgTuCnHi into one 1024p BIF if possible. These 4 are all hand-drawing infantry unit in similar colours and without weapon/shield items.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stazi

I have to edit every single charge, walk, fight.txt files. If I don't, weapons and shields float above soldiers heads. X,Y origin for weapons is related to a frame rectangle. 1024p textures have smaller frame rectangles (half height, half wight) and that's why all those weapon/shield animations have to be recalculated. But don't worry. I've found that they can be recalculated via Excel too. They just need different formulas.

There is also one more little issue about weapons in 1024p. It looks like this:
http://www.runners-world.pl/forum/up...1378806454.jpg

Poles are simply too thick. We'll probably need to manually edit texture and thinner them a bit. That's something I need to test.

---

Oh no, editing those files is a nightmare...

About the width of the weapons, I have a little discovery, tell you later when I back to my own computer tonight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

I suggest to move Custom7, CUSTOM8, HUSCARLE and LgTuCnHi into one 1024p BIF if possible. These 4 are all hand-drawing infantry unit in similar colours and without weapon/shield items.

---

A fair point, no hurry, but directories worth remembering for the future.

A short summary of animation directories which cause CTDs:

"Peasant"

Used by Spanish Archeros, Russian Oprychniki and Turkish elite cavalry.


"ChainHlm"

Solely for armoured steeds used by Mamluks and perhaps by Turkey.


"HlPlArSH"


Only for Imperial ( German_HRE) dragoons.



"LArmWCav"


Solely for French dragoons in later XVII century.



"MKnight"

Skii infantry only.



"MSHelm"


One-winged Polish Hussars, Spanish light cavalry, French royal musketeers.


"PlateS"


Only for Polish infantry/dragoons of late period, can be used for Russian elite infantry/dragoons in blue uniforms.

I suppose you haven't seen the last one? I am not sure I have ever posted their image, but there was some work involved and I am not 100% sure I have finished this unit. I'll have to check soon.

EDIT - yeah, they are ready:

https://i362.photobucket.com/albums/...20infantry.png

The unit in game, next to Lithuanian Hussars (no wings).

The animations are altered Russian Streltsy with different faces, caps, berdishes and blue uniforms.

https://i362.photobucket.com/albums/...a/late%202.png

Quote:

---

"Peasant"
"ChainHlm"
"HlPlArSH"
"LArmWCav"
"MKnight"
"MSHelm"
"PlateS"

---

A number of those can be easily combined as long as the palettes allow that. Blue uniforms is something I really want to save for those guys who are using them, same for colourful uniforms of certain units.

All those animations are assigned to rare units used by main factions, so very unlikely to cause CTDs, but if they are combined it will take no more than 2 directories to make the units safe to use, all of them.
This way some could find different uses if we want to, not many though because they were made often for very specific units and nothing else.

You have already shown it here.~;p
And I'm interested in another unit anim showed in the same post, the Bavarian cavalry charging with a longsword(an estoc?), is it already in 1.5 or will be in 1.6, or 2.0?






@Stazi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

About the width of the weapons, I have a little discovery, tell you later when I back to my own computer tonight.

---

For example, this is a weapon's code in the WEAPONS.TXT:
53,190,87,204,3,4
as you know, it is x1,y1,x2,y2,length,width
if you change the number of y1 smaller and y2 bigger, such as:
53,180,87,214,3,4
then, the weapon will looks much thiner in game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

For example, this is a weapon's code in the WEAPONS.TXT:
53,190,87,204,3,4
as you know, it is x1,y1,x2,y2,length,width
if you change the number of y1 smaller and y2 bigger, such as:
53,180,87,214,3,4
then, the weapon will looks much thiner in game.

---

Ha! It's so obvious when you know about it. Thanks a lot!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

You have already shown it here.~;p
And I'm interested in another unit anim showed in the same post, the Bavarian cavalry charging with a longsword(an estoc?), is it already in 1.5 or will be in 1.6, or 2.0?

---

Oh, well at least the dragoon pose is here to see.


Bavarians are the famous 'one angle trick' used so often in the mod.

https://i362.photobucket.com/albums/...a/late%203.png

Cegorach, it is possible that add weapons(swords/sabers) on the body's hand in the fighting anim for all hand-drawing cavalry unit animations, just like the winged hussar's fighting anim?
You know, the 'item' swords/sabers always floating on the sky when fighting...:wall:

Depends on space and what weapons are in use.

As you can see there wasn't enough of space for weapons in hands, but I suppose with 1024p it is doable as long as there is someone willing to do it.

Obviously not every single weapon can be added/used - spears, lances and pikes have to be kept separately.
Swords, sabres, rapiers etc are easier.

Cavalry animations usually use something like three-four poses for attack moves and repeat them as many times as it is necessary.
So it is a question of 12-16 small images for each cavalry unit which uses such weapons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

Oh no, editing those files is a nightmare...

---

I've just tested it. All you need to do is divide all x,y pairs by 2 (it takes like 1 second in Excel). Generally, all the numbers except the last in each line which is always 0 or 1. For weapons it looks like this:

Code:

---

x1    y1    x2    y2    z

-1    -27    -5    -30    0
0    -26    -4    -32    0
0    -22    -2    -28    0
1    -22    -2    -28    0
0    -24    -2    -31    0
0    -24    -3    -31    0
-1    -27    -5    -30    0
0    -27    -5    -27    0
-1    -27    -6    -27    0
0    -27    -5    -26    0
0    -26    -4    -27    0
0    -26    -4    -27    0

---

I pretty sure similar approach will work on shields.

1024p Mongol Heavy Cavalry in all its glory. :yes:

Attachment 17649

Those spears rendered before the soldier don't looks that good. Maybe I should move them behind the horsemen?

So, because we sorted out most of the problems concerning 1024p textures I'd like to know what to do? Which animations go to which folder - that kind of things. I'd like to start making a real progress on this. Except the map, new/renewed units are probably the most important part.

I thought it could wait, but if you wish to start I'll have a look tomorrow. It will require checking the palettes so that certain colours aren't lost.


It was sensibly suggested to combine Custom7, CUSTOM8, HUSCARLE and LgTuCnHi in one directory - I'd pick Custom7 for simplicity, but you can choose if you wish.

It is all infantry with handguns and no weapons, so should be easier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stazi

Those spears rendered before the soldier don't looks that good. Maybe I should move them behind the horsemen?

---

Yes, in this case it will make it look much better, at least from close distance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegorach

I thought it could wait, but if you wish to start I'll have a look tomorrow. It will require checking the palettes so that certain colours aren't lost.

---

Don't worry. I'll take care of the palettes. Just let me know what goes where. If there be any chance of losing something I'll ask you what to do but judging on what I've seen the new, hand-drawn units don't use as much colors as the old ones.

But if we want to wait with those units so what should I do now? GUI certainly can wait as we already has one. A totally new units from CIV3?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stazi

But if we want to wait with those units so what should I do now? GUI certainly can wait as we already has one. A totally new units from CIV3?

---

Ok, so let's begin with the conversion.

It will have to happen sooner or later and new animations from CiV3 should be imported to 1024p files because they will end like ones anyway.



Please start with those four units, just tell me the file where they will be. I'll build a list who goes were soon.



Also, since you have the permission why not import some graphics from LOTR?

I had a look and

Dervish can work well as Gallowglass,

Janni are all right for some sneaky highland guerillas,

PesTunic - are necessary for dismounted nomads,

and even MongCost could be useful if we need rangers in hoods and armed with bows and swords. The last one is rather unlikely to find any use, so is unnecessary, but the rest seems pretty good.

I'll use this post for the list of combined animations showing which directories will be available.



LiHorse - done and full

Mocoscav

MonghHkav

are empty




Custom7, CUSTOM8, HUSCARLE and LgTuCnHi

go to ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegorach

It will have to happen sooner or later and new animations from CiV3 should be imported to 1024p files because they will end like ones anyway

---

Ah, you forget about the size of the civ3 units… if they're imported into a 1024p bif, that they will become extrmely small. They can only imported into 512p bif IMO.

Excuse me, can someone provide a download link of LOTR mod?

Edit: is it the 'MetwBeta7.0.exe' on the ORG's download database?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

Ah, you forget about the size of the civ3 units… if they're imported into a 1024p bif, that they will become extrmely small. They can only imported into 512p bif IMO.

---

Ok, there will be many empty files they can use. Not a problem.

LOTR mod - yes, I have used this install to check what is useful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

Ah, you forget about the size of the civ3 units… if they're imported into a 1024p bif, that they will become extrmely small. They can only imported into 512p bif IMO.

---

I'm just working on this. It seems that doubling the image size will do. Of course, images are generally low-res and doubling the size doesn't improve that. Maybe there is a different game with better animations? But I doubt there is one with such rich unit selection as Civ3.

I against the idea of doubling the size of a Civ3 unit, this would damage its image quality. I think put them in a 512p bif is just ok. There are enough directories. And since the size of civ3 units is small. we can even put more than one units into one 512p BIF if we find some units in similar colour.


Edit:Forget it, this would not damage the quality. It worth a try.

Edit2: I test it, doubling the size of a Civ3 unit would make it looks 'sharper' in game, as the image quality is not very good, it doesn't make it looks better IMO. I still prefer to put them in 512

--------------------------------------------------

Anyway, the Swordsmen by T-mun is fully converted, see the screenshots and download it from the attachment.

http://images.akamai.steamuserconten...9A3651E90D61A/
http://images.akamai.steamuserconten...8CC587B91D017/
http://images.akamai.steamuserconten...0F1D57AB2BA7A/

@Stazi & @zweihander

Could you use one post for all animation changes you are making/importing?
I'll track the changes and post where is what in a single post.

This should make it easier for all of us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stazi

I'm just working on this. It seems that doubling the image size will do. Of course, images are generally low-res and doubling the size doesn't improve that. Maybe there is a different game with better animations? But I doubt there is one with such rich unit selection as Civ3.

---

One small suggestion - for the sake of making it easier for everybody when compiling animations into 1024p files please use directories other than Custom1-9.

At least for now let's leave those for new animations.

For obvious reasons directories likely to cause CTDs should be left alone. They can have their uses for unit which are MP/custom battles only such as the Iroquis' units.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegorach

@Stazi & @zweihander

Could you use one post for all animation changes you are making/importing?
I'll track the changes and post where is what in a single post.

This should make it easier for all of us.

---

Should I start a new thread in which only post completed new unit animations?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zweihander

Edit:Forget it, this would not damage the quality. It worth a try.

Edit2: I test it, doubling the size of a Civ3 unit would make it looks 'sharper' in game, as the image quality is not very good, it doesn't make it looks better IMO. I still prefer to put them in 512

---

I'd like to have dead bodies of the same size (no lilliputs and giants lying around). To achieve this we need to make all soldiers textures the same or similar size to avoid SCALE manipulation because different scales make bodies size different. This is all or nothing situation. We have to rework all units into 1024p AND keep their size as similar as possible OR leave everything as it is in 512p. But If you decide to not have dead bodies at all then we can mix 512 and 1024 textures. I don't want to force my point of view but that's how I see it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

Should I start a new thread in which only post completed new unit animations?

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Yes, that would be a good idea.

One post per finished unit would be all right.

In this case editing one post will not help - we need to show that there is some progress.

Also I'd like to leave all discussions to THIS thread, the new thread should be only about final results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stazi

I'd like to have dead bodies of the same size (no lilliputs and giants lying around). To achieve this we need to make all soldiers textures the same or similar size to avoid SCALE manipulation because different scales make bodies size different. This is all or nothing situation. We have to rework all units into 1024p AND keep their size as similar as possible OR leave everything as it is in 512p. But If you decide to not have dead bodies at all then we can mix 512 and 1024 textures. I don't want to force my point of view but that's how I see it.

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Since I don't care much about dead bodies as long as there are new animations I'll leave the decision to the both of you.

Here are some units from Civ3 which could be necessary. Eventually, so can wait.

Animations are very good and include two modes of attack in the case of a musketeers.

Highland Clansman

Attachment 17651

Scottish Musketeer

Attachment 17652

movable artillery if we decide that it is necessary

Attachment 17653

French Guard Musketeers on foot

Attachment 17654

Italian musketeer - perfect for western irregulars/light infantry with firearms

Attachment 17655

Ottoman and Bosniak infantry units with firearms to give several animation options for muslim countries

Attachment 17658

Attachment 17657

Attachment 17656


@zweihander

Can you have a look? They look pretty well in my opinion. I am not sure if you can find something better.

Just an idea but why not try to ask guys who created those units about exporting animations to higher resolution? Sprites were surely made form 3d animated models so it shouldn't be much of a problem for them. I know nothing about Civ3 community but I can ask those guys if you point me to a thread where you found a unit. Many of them maybe out of business now but I think its worth a try. They're all moders like us so I'm sure they'll understand why we're asking about it. Units are IMHO the most important part and we'd be aiming for the top quality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stazi

I'd like to have dead bodies of the same size (no lilliputs and giants lying around). To achieve this we need to make all soldiers textures the same or similar size to avoid SCALE manipulation because different scales make bodies size different. This is all or nothing situation. We have to rework all units into 1024p AND keep their size as similar as possible OR leave everything as it is in 512p. But If you decide to not have dead bodies at all then we can mix 512 and 1024 textures. I don't want to force my point of view but that's how I see it.

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My opinion is:

Mix 512 and 1024 textures, for better performance of living soldiers, which is more important than deadbodies IMO.
But this doesn't mean that I abandon the deadbodies. We can modify the DEAD256.LBM, for example, as the original LtOpHelm animation is replace by Civ3 landsnkencht now, we can also modify the DEAD256.LBM, replace the original LtOpHelm dead body by a 50% size landsknecht dead body on the DEAD256.LBM.

This is my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

My opinion is:

Mix 512 and 1024 textures, for better performance of living soldiers, which is more important than deadbodies IMO.
But this doesn't mean that I abandon the deadbodies. We can modify the DEAD256.LBM, for example, as the original LtOpHelm animation is replace by Civ3 landsnkencht now, we can also modify the DEAD256.LBM, replace the original LtOpHelm dead body by a 50% size landsknecht dead body on the DEAD256.LBM.

This is my opinion.

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Reducing the size of dead bodies which are already very low 256p quality? It'll make them an unrecognizable groups of pixels. But.. ok. If you both don't care about dead bodies we go the mixed way.

@cegorach, @zweihander - let me know what you think about my previous post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stazi

Just an idea but why not try to ask guys who created those units about exporting animations to higher resolution? Sprites were surely made form 3d animated models so it shouldn't be much of a problem for them. I know nothing about Civ3 community but I can ask those guys if you point me to a thread where you found a unit. Many of them maybe out of business now but I think its worth a try. They're all moders like us so I'm sure they'll understand why we're asking about it. Units are IMHO the most important part and we'd be aiming for the top quality.

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Good idea and worth a try, but as I know, it may not be an easy task. Like MTW, Civ3 is a quite old game. Many old modders are not there now...For example, Kinboat doesn't login on the CFC forum since 2006, Steph quited modding, Imperator lost his old file because of an accident of his computer....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stazi

@cegorach, @zweihander - let me know what you think about my previous post.

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It is a nice idea, but unlikely to work - these are old, very old files so unlikely to give us any results.

Is it possible to enlarge the images without losing quality e.g. before they are converted into .bmps?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

Is it possible to enlarge the images without losing quality e.g. before they are converted into .bmps?

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Sadly, impossible.

I suggest to PM imperator1961, who is one of two modders who made many units during Renaissance era(the other one is Sandris) and he still login these days, to ask if he can help.

Edit: if you think this is a good idea, I would like to try to make a contact with Imperator.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

Here are some units from Civ3 which could be necessary. Eventually, so can wait.

Animations are very good and include two modes of attack in the case of a musketeers.

Highland Clansman

Attachment 17651

Scottish Musketeer

Attachment 17652

movable artillery if we decide that it is necessary

Attachment 17653

French Guard Musketeers on foot

Attachment 17654

Italian musketeer - perfect for western irregulars/light infantry with firearms

Attachment 17655

Ottoman and Bosniak infantry units with firearms to give several animation options for muslim countries

Attachment 17658

Attachment 17657

Attachment 17656


@zweihander

Can you have a look? They look pretty well in my opinion. I am not sure if you can find something better.

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They're good enough, but I have to remind you, nearly all of them are in pretty small size, a bit smaller than the two units I have converted. And, could you please also list the author of the units?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

I suggest to PM imperator1961, who is one of two modders who made many units during Renaissance era(the other one is Sandris) and he still login these days, to ask if he can help.

Edit: if you think this is a good idea, I would like to try to make a contact with Imperator.

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@Stazi @cegorach
What do you think of this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

It is a nice idea, but unlikely to work - these are old, very old files so unlikely to give us any results.

Is it possible to enlarge the images without losing quality e.g. before they are converted into .bmps?

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Here. It's how it looks when you double the size:
Attachment 17663

It's the best we can do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

They're good enough, but I have to remind you, nearly all of them are in pretty small size, a bit smaller than the two units I have converted. And, could you please also list the author of the units?

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I have no idea. It was downloaded years ago and there is no such information in the downloaded folders.

I suppose you could ask him what can be done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stazi

Here. It's how it looks when you double the size:
Attachment 17663

It's the best we can do.

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Not great, but better than what we have. Would be less of a problem if we could combine 1024 and 512 files.

At least I think it would, but that means all sorts of other problems... hmm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

Edit: if you think this is a good idea, I would like to try to make a contact with Imperator.

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Sure, go for it. It won't hurt even if he says no.

EDIT

@cegorach - I wonder if I should replace Mongol Heavy Cavalry with that NTW grey horse so LiHorse would be our light mounts only folder? I think it'd be better to put MHC in EHorse folder as their horses are armored.