My next game: Epeiros as Pergamon

[QuintusSertorius]

I'm thinking ahead to my next game, once my massive Roman campaign is done, and for once it's not of "another Roman game". In my present game I've been having a lot of fun roleplaying out Pergamon as a Roman ally, rather than just another Roman province with Roman troops. So there's been a client ruler in the city for over 70 years, and it has two armies of regional troops and mercenaries, which I've used to great effect.

So for my next game, I want to play a migrated Epeiros campaign as the kingdom. I'll probably still do the whole business of trying to keep most factions relatively historical, though I might struggle a bit with Roman expansion.

Plan is thus; use Force Diplomacy to stay at peace with Koinon Hellenon and Makedonia, so that I can ignore my starting location for the most part. Or perhaps take the Illyrian coast initially for the money, and to give them to Rome later.

Otherwise it's focused on Asia Minor. Take Pergamon with a transported army as soon as possible, and start building it up. Then my targets are Halikarnassos, Ipsos, Sardis and Side to begin with. Take Galatia and give it to a Gallic faction. Byzantion might be a good early choice since it then stops anyone from Europe crossing into Asia Minor and vice-versa.

I'll probably be at war with the Seleukids (especially since they have Ipsos, Sarsis and Side) and Pontos for a goodly long while, any tips for facing them?

For armies, I've had good results with Classical hoplites as the rock in the centre of my line, possibly with some pike phalanxes in the very middle and them either side. Then Celto-Hellenic spearmen on the flanks, with peltasts on the wings. Kretan archers and Celtic slingers for long-ranged harrassment and enemy skirmisher-killing, and whatever mercenary cavalry I can get my hands on (preferably Thracian and Illyrian). Along with those brilliant Asian skirmishing horse.

I might take Byzantion as well, possibly try to recreate the Thracian Kingdom (expanding out from Byzantion).

Does this sound viable?

[overweightninja]

Does this sound viable?

I certainly hope so, sounds very simmilar to what I started doing with the Maks yesterday.
Anyway my "Argeade Kingdom of Pergamon" has had a nice little start, abandoned all of mainland Hellas and most of my FMs, shipped them to Mytilene then stormed Pergamon itself. Then attacked Bithynia and following that Ankyra.
Seleucids weren't too pleased with that and tried to break the siege at Ankyra kicking off our war.
Current situation is those four settlements. Only had a half stack army comprised of Deutoroi phalanx, Lonchophoroi, Theuros and skirmishers, but I've still got a few thousand mnai going spare each turn (Anatolian economy is looking very good so far) which I'm currently investing in some more supporting inf (ie peltasti and more theuros).
Seleucids have sent very "fair" stacks at me so far with nice balances of troops roughly equivalent to my own stack. They've been shipping in a lot of troops recently though so trying to build my strength up before I go for Ipsos and Sardis (and keep them off Nikaia at the same time, although these are very small stacks).
Fortunately the Ptolies and Pontos have both taken pity on me for the time being so as long as my Alliances with them hold out, my plan is to kick the Seleucids out of western anatolia, and close off the land to them by taking Mazaka and giving it to Pontos. Then it will be a case of either returning to Makedonia proper to retake the homelands, or kicking whoever backstabs me out of Anatolia as well.
Anyways I'll keep you updated if anything interesting happens, looks like things are just warming up
Cheers

[delra]

You won't be able to get any decent phalanxes as Epeiros in Pergamon (AOR)...

The sanest army I can think of is a solid line of classical hoplites along with thracian units as flankers (they are recruitable in Asia Minor as Epeiros). You have thracian pelstats there with their insane swords, also good medium cavalry. Should be enough for flanking power. Especially after you get some chevrons. Some galatians might be priceless too.

Add to that some heavy mercenary cavalry (Thessalians?) and you're fine for most of the game. Classical hoplites + thracian peltasts can take any heavy phalanx out there without even getting tired. And phalanxes is what you will be fighting against most of the time.

Resign from archers, they are hardly ever useful against all the heavy stuff you're going to fight against and you can't really retrain them. I'd stay with thracian pelstats for most of the game as missile support for they are deadly.

On second thought, you could make a trip and create a colony in Crimea where you can train those awesome armoured archers. It's short way shipping them from there...

On strategic level, I advise using units you can retrain, you will be tight with cash for most of the game so housing depleted units might help a lot. Also, you could consider leaving your historic house rules for a while and really consider taking some places that might be very useful for you but weren't actually Pergamon's subjects back then. Like Rhodos (for slingers), Crete (for archers), Lesbos (to get rid of Makedonia), Crimea (for archers), Nikaia and Byzantion (to seal your lands from Greek incursions)...

[Swordmaster]

Quintus won't be leaving his house rules.

I think it's gonna be hard, especially if the Seleukids are faring well. I'd advise on making peace with them before you take Pergamon, so that you may have some time building it up. You can take Pergamon with your starting army, though. But... are you gonna let yourself being conquered by Rome in the end?

[QuintusSertorius]

I don't use Kretans to attack the enemy line, they're brilliant for wiping out their skirmishers and anyone unarmoured (like annoying skirmisher cavalry). Especially for getting rid of their skirmishers before the lines close. Same goes the slingers.

Not fussed about lacking native phalanxes, I don't like them anyway. I've found a centre of one or two merc phalangites with lots of classical hoplites more than does the job. I'll be modelling those armies on the ones I've been using while roleplaying as Pergamon in my Roman game. Which usually means a phalanx in the centre, two classical hoplites either side, one Celto-hellenic Hoplites either side of them and Peltasts on the outside. Then archers behind the line, akontistai and slingers out front and whatever cavalry and other troops I can manage to fill it out.

Quintus won't be leaving his house rules.

I think it's gonna be hard, especially if the Seleukids are faring well. I'd advise on making peace with them before you take Pergamon, so that you may have some time building it up. You can take Pergamon with your starting army, though. But... are you gonna let yourself being conquered by Rome in the end?

I'll be using FD as usual, and possibly a lot of moving armies around at the start. I'll give Epirus away in the 160s, and I do plan to end the scenario in 133BC. That's more than long enough to play anyway.

[Irishmafia2020]

Hhmmmm.... I didn't think you had it in you to play a non-Roman faction. I hope that you will enjoy the scenario that yo have planned!

[QuintusSertorius]

Hhmmmm.... I didn't think you had it in you to play a non-Roman faction. I hope that you will enjoy the scenario that yo have planned!

It's because I've had a lot of fun using Greek armies while roleplaying as Pergamon in my Roman game. Classical hoplites are brilliant at the centre of a line, and will fight forever, it seems. And I like a lot of the regional Greek lineup, lots of useful units there. I chose Epeiros as the most disposable Hellenic faction, them not being in Greece doesn't matter historically.

Course this scenario could come about much sooner than planned if I can't find a way around the CTD in my Roman game.

[Kromulan]

I wouldn't be surprised if you found yourself facing a united (allied) front consisting of AS, Ptol, and Pontos at some point. Plus, you'll most likely be at war with KH, Maks and Getai if you're planning on expanding into Thrace.
Some of those Thracian elites will certainly come in handy dealing with all the Galatian heavies Ptolemy will throw at you. Sounds like fun. Good luck.

[QuintusSertorius]

Not if Force Diplomacy has anything to do with it, I won't. :D

[QuintusSertorius]

The game hath begun! I know some people aren't going to like the fact that I cheated at the start, but let's have the debate shall we?