Space strategy roll-call!

[drone]

I can recommend both the Balance of Power Mod (BOP) and/or the Ultimate Dominion Mod 3 (UDM3).

The former is often described as BOTF as it *should've* been, and I agree with that assessment -- it just feels much better balanced overall (hence the mod's name), and the major races now tend to play a bit more like they should. Of course, UDM3 alters the game even more dramatically since it replaces the Ferengi with the Dominion (although the Ferengi are still in the game as a minor race), and it radically redoes the shiplists for all 5 powers (including new ship graphics, which look incredible).

Either way, you can't really go wrong with either one.

Did the mods sort out the problem with upgrading factories? That takes forever due to how they compute production. And will the Borg show up on turn 10 and wipe everybody out still?

[frogbeastegg]

GalCiv2 + expansions
Sins of a solar empire
Sword of the stars collectors edition (includes expansion plus other goodies)
Space empires V
Star Wars: empire at war
Imperium galactica 2
Star Wars: supremacy
Star Wars: galactic battlegrounds (the game which let me know I'd had enough of RTS games)
Star wars: force comander
Homeworld
Freelancer
If freelancer counts then X: beyond the frontier and X3: gold probably do too.

Some of those have yet to be played (SE V, SotS, X3, empire at war) Others have been played to death and beyond

I played the demo of BotF heavily yet never owned it. I couldn't afford it when it first came out, and couldn't find it later.

Sword of the stars was panned when it first came out so I ignored it totally. Then a bit ago I saw the announcement of the expansion on the quartertothree forums. The thread filled up with people declaring their love for the fully patched game plus first expansion. Can't wait until I get chance to settle down, read the lengthy documentation, and install the thing.



Sins wasn't all that for me either. It felt too much like age of empires and those other RTS games I got sick of many years ago. Start small, spam research and resource gathering, build flash army, skirmish while you build uber army, slowly stomp all over your enemy's base and win. Not enough to do away from that line, not enough variety from game to game. I haven't tried it with that big patch they released a bit ago; that's supposed to alter a lot.



[quote=Since I'm currently playing vanilla GalCiv 2 (I'm waiting/hoping for a full bundle to be released in an actual box), I have to ask: How does the AI compare? I know it received a major upgrade in Dark Avatar, and again with Twilight of the Arnor.[/quote]
It's been ages since I played vanilla Galciv2, and I'm not terribly aware of what AI tweaks have been done on it since Dread Lords release, so take this view with a measure of salt. It's a good improvement. The AI is less vulnerable to typical cheese, and has fewer senile moments. New strategies have been added to its book. I think it processes its turns faster. Obviously there's a lot which has been added specifically for the new features such as the race specific tech trees.

[Martok]

Did the mods sort out the problem with upgrading factories? That takes forever due to how they compute production.

They're both certainly better in this regard, yes. Whether they're enough of an improvement for your personal tastes, however, I obviously couldn't say. Best to judge such things for yourself.


Balance of Power Mod

Ultimate Dominion Mod III

And will the Borg show up on turn 10 and wipe everybody out still?

The Borg's stats have been changed (in both mods) so that they're not so ridiculously overpowered. A fleet will now usually be able to take down a single cube with more reasonable losses than in the vanilla game.

They're still a problem, however, because their ability to spawn multiple cubes is apparently hard-coded and can't be changed. Thus, players on harder difficulty setting can (and do) see five or more cubes running around killing everyone. It can be an effective way to win the game if they're picking on your enemies, but it also then can end up making it way too easy -- you can just follow the Borg and colonize the empty systems they leave behind. And even with cloaked warships, you'd still need an awfully big armada to take down that many Borg vessels (even if it was in succession and not all at once).

It's for that reason that I've always played with Random Events turned off....and continue to do so. One cube I could handle, but half a dozen? Not so much. Both mods alleviate the problem somewhat, but not completely. Unless the BOTF modding community were to ever get access to the hard-coded files, the Borg will continue to be unbalanced.

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So, can a list of recommendable games be made upon a limited level of agreement? My hibernation time has arrived and I'm thirsty for good games, namely strategy and RPG.
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Is there anything you particularly like or dislike in space strategy games? Knowing that would help in making a recommendation.

Sword of the stars was panned when it first came out so I ignored it totally. Then a bit ago I saw the announcement of the expansion on the quartertothree forums. The thread filled up with people declaring their love for the fully patched game plus first expansion. Can't wait until I get chance to settle down, read the lengthy documentation, and install the thing.

I would be very interested in hearing what your take is. Despite the lack of planetary conquest, I remain rather intrigued by the game's overall premise and design, and wouldn't rule out getting it if it's otherwise good.

It's been ages since I played vanilla Galciv2, and I'm not terribly aware of what AI tweaks have been done on it since Dread Lords release, so take this view with a measure of salt. It's a good improvement. The AI is less vulnerable to typical cheese, and has fewer senile moments. New strategies have been added to its book. I think it processes its turns faster. Obviously there's a lot which has been added specifically for the new features such as the race specific tech trees.

Appreciate the feedback, Froggy.

[frogbeastegg]

I would be very interested in hearing what your take is. Despite the lack of planetary conquest, I remain rather intrigued by the game's overall premise and design, and wouldn't rule out getting it if it's otherwise good.

It's probably going to be a while. Currently I'm playing games like "Interview tycoon II, the search for a part-time supervisor " and "Stock overload: where shall I put these next 300 books?" When I get home I'm all strategied out.

I'll give you a link to the thread which got me interested in the game. The people on that forum are a mature bunch and I've found their collective opinions on various titles well worth reading.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Is there anything you particularly like or dislike in space strategy games? Knowing that would help in making a recommendation.

Well, it will be my first time with Space Strats. But you can count me in with AOE-style unlovers.
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[Togakure]

I bought BotF back when it first came out, and for the most part I really liked it. I remember taking screenies of my Romulan War Birds in an exploding formation and making a desktop out it which looked really cool.

I got frustrated because I had an aging computer, and if my memory serves me right, as the game progressed it took longer and longer to process a turn, to the point where it became nigh unplayable. With regret, I retired the game. That was about when Shogun hit the market and it was bye bye space games until SFC Orion Pirates and eventually, MOO III.

Last August when I went back west to liquidate a majority of my things, I tossed SFC OP, BotF and Imperium Galactica I and II into the trash bin. I'm regretting that now, having just visited the BotF mod site. Gah.

[drone]

I got frustrated because I had an aging computer, and if my memory serves me right, as the game progressed it took longer and longer to process a turn, to the point where it became nigh unplayable. With regret, I retired the game.

There's a memory leak in there somewhere. The longer you play the game, the longer it took to run through the end-turn phase and the better the chance for a lockup. Once my empire got big, I would basically save and exit every 5-6 turns just to make it playable. There were also serious problems in LAN multiplayer, games would hang fairly regularly, but the multiplay game itself was pretty decent.

[Martok]

.But you can count me in with AOE-style unlovers.
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Well at least that rules out titles like Homeworld, Nexus, and Sins. Do you have particular preference for turn-based strategy games (such as the Civilization series) or real-time strategy games (like the Europa Universalis series)?

I bought BotF back when it first came out, and for the most part I really liked it. I remember taking screenies of my Romulan War Birds in an exploding formation and making a desktop out it which looked really cool.

I got frustrated because I had an aging computer, and if my memory serves me right, as the game progressed it took longer and longer to process a turn, to the point where it became nigh unplayable. With regret, I retired the game. That was about when Shogun hit the market and it was bye bye space games until SFC Orion Pirates and eventually, MOO III.

As drone said, there's a memory leak that causes a significant slowdown between turns (usually around Turn 120). It's easily the worst bug in the game, and of course it can't be fixed because the problem is in the files that are hard-coded. (Incidentally, this is another reason I would love to see BOTF on Good Old Games -- maybe they could finally fix it.)

Last August when I went back west to liquidate a majority of my things, I tossed SFC OP, BotF and Imperium Galactica I and II into the trash bin. I'm regretting that now, having just visited the BotF mod site. Gah.

Sorry to hear that, man.

Yeah, I think a big reason BOTF has retained such a loyal following over the years is because of all the mods that are available for it. The BOP & UDM3 mods are only two of the most popular -- there's also the Ultimate Mod (currently in its 4th version), the Uncivil War mod, the Planet & Building mod, etc. There's supposedly even a mod that allows you to play as the Borg (although I'm not sure how playable it is).

[Mouzafphaerre]

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I have no TB vs. RT preference.
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[Martok]

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I have no TB vs. RT preference.
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All righty then! Here's my personal list of what I think you might enjoy (in approximate order of most to least recommended):


1.) Galactic Civilizations 2 (with Dark Avatar & Twilight of the Arnor expansion packs)

2.) Master of Orion II

3.) Imperium Galactica 2

4.) Birth of the Federation

5.) Star Wars: Empire At War

6.) Lost Empire: Immortals

7.) Space Empires V


Addendums: It should be noted that some of these games (particularly IG2 and BOTF) are older and somewhat hard to find. (I might be able to help you out with getting a copy of BOTF if you're interested, however.)

Also, if you're a big Star Trek and/or Star Wars fan, then BOTF and SW:EAW might very well go to the top of the list -- both titles capture quite well the feel and atmosphere of their respective franchises.

[Crandaeolon]

Sins of a Solar Empire was boring as hell if you ask me, no variation between factions, no story/campaign.

I didn't feel these were particularly hate-worthy points, but yes they could be considered weaknesses. The different playstyles of the factions open up only after some time of playing, but then you'll encounter the general shallowness and lack of balance (at least until versions 1.03-1.04, when I stopped playing.) The lack of campaign is a non-issue to me (how many RTS games have campaigns actually worth playing?), but it's quite understandably a weakness of Sins.

The UI seemed weird and unintuitive

This is somewhat baffling, though - the UI is generally considered one of the strong points of Sins. Could you elaborate a bit?

I would argue that the Space Empire games have too much stuff -- I always feel overwhelmed by the enormous number of ships, buildings, and technologies at my disposal.

Yes, Space Empire series is a bit too complex for its own good. It does try to alleviate the complexity with a lot of automation options, but doesn't do it very elegantly.

Maybe it's time to give Sword of the Stars another whirl. The lack of peaceful options never bothered me - gotta bomb 'em fugly tentacle dudes to oblivion anyways - but the shoddy combat interface and unsuitability for multiplayer did.

[Martok]

The AI is noticeably better overall in TA compared to the original. Although, it's somewhat complicated by the way each faction AI now has to optimize a different (and in some cases radically different) tech tree. That was a little shaky at first, but it seems to have settled out now. And Brad is still doing small tweaks AFAIK. You'll notice the difference if you get the TA expansion. It's really a whole new game.

Gah! I forgot to respond to this. Thanks Zen; that's good to know.

Now if only Stardock would release the Expansion Bundle in a box (instead of just as a download). I know it's maybe a little silly, but I always prefer owning an actual physical disk along with a box.

Maybe it's time to give Sword of the Stars another whirl. The lack of peaceful options never bothered me - gotta bomb 'em fugly tentacle dudes to oblivion anyways - but the shoddy combat interface and unsuitability for multiplayer did.

I decided to download the demo (link courtesy of CBR) to see what it's like. Who knows? Maybe I'll be proven wrong and/or my stubbornness made to look foolish -- goodness knows it's happened before.