Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 91 to 120 of 214

Thread: The Palestine Papers

  1. #91
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Between the Mountain and the Sound
    Posts
    11,074
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Well I'd use this for percentages:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...n_Israel,_2010

    In 2010, there was a dramatic drop in rocket attacks, down from 569 in 2009 to 150 in 2010. In 2008, in comparison, 2,048 rockets were fired into Israel from Gaza.
    It seems likely that Palestinian 'defensive actions' that aren't acts of terrorism are less than 1% when the IDF isn't invading in retaliation for rocket attacks.

    You say you don't support targeting civilians, but that is almost all the Palestinian groups do. If you really didn't support attacking civilians, you can't support whose primary actions are targeting civilians. Nor can you support the Palestinian people, who voted those groups into power.

    You'll excuse all the terrorist acts by saying Israel has given the Palestinians a lot of reasons to hate them. And Israel has given Palestinians a lot of legitimate reasons to hate them. That doesn't excuse attacking civilians.

    However the Palestinians can stop the rocket attacks and other terrorist acts and begin the transition to a more peaceful era.

    But that would require them to love their children more than they hate Israel.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  2. #92
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    I don't care for national borders, so fighting for some national identity is pointless and this talk is just rhetoric, . . .
    Agreed. So let's tell the Israelis to dump their national identity and borders and we'll go back to calling the place Palestine and everything will be fine.

    That was easy.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  3. #93
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Well I'd use this for percentages:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...n_Israel,_2010

    It seems likely that Palestinian 'defensive actions' that aren't acts of terrorism are less than 1% when the IDF isn't invading in retaliation for rocket attacks.
    So you are saying the Palestinians have a right to kill IDF soldiers in Gaza because it is self-defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    You say you don't support targeting civilians, but that is almost all the Palestinian groups do. If you really didn't support attacking civilians, you can't support whose primary actions are targeting civilians. Nor can you support the Palestinian people, who voted those groups into power.
    I don't support the targeting the of civilians. I think the Palestinians should target the Israeli military and government, not Israeli civilians.

    And yes, I do support the Palestinian people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    You'll excuse all the terrorist acts by saying Israel has given the Palestinians a lot of reasons to hate them. And Israel has given Palestinians a lot of legitimate reasons to hate them. That doesn't excuse attacking civilians.
    You continue to imply that I support terrorism. I think in the interest of fair play you either quote me as saying such a thing or refrain from saying it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    [B][U]However the Palestinians can stop the rocket attacks and other terrorist acts and begin the transition to a more peaceful era.
    However the Israelis can stop the brutal subjugation and other terrorist acts and begin the transition to a more peaceful era

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    But that would require them to love their children more than they hate Israel.
    That's a cute tagline but it doesn't mean anything other than a Palestinian should hold hands with his child while in his other hand he holds a flower all the while IDF jets are straffing his house.

    It might make for a cute poem in the Tao Tse Ching, but in real life, it's meaningless.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  4. #94
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Albion
    Posts
    15,930
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    Agreed. So let's tell the Israelis to dump their national identity and borders and we'll go back to calling the place Palestine and everything will be fine.

    That was easy.
    Legal framework. Since Israel already has one and it works, it is easier just to merge 'Palestinian' territories back in than vice-versus.
    Days since the Apocalypse began
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."

  5. #95
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Legal framework. Since Israel already has one and it works, it is easier just to merge 'Palestinian' territories back in than vice-versus.
    But since it was the creation of Israel that started all the trouble, and all we want is an end to the fighting, I think it best to go back to everyone being Palestinian. Wouldn't be but a small clerical effort to get the paperwork done.

    And since you said you don't really care about the details of national identity, we'll let the Israeli identity go. I'm sure we can agree on this.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  6. #96
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Forever adrift
    Posts
    5,958

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    Agreed. So let's tell the Israelis to dump their national identity and borders and we'll go back to calling the place Palestine and everything will be fine.

    That was easy.
    ain't going to happen.

    i think CR was trying to point out that indiscriminately firing rockets into israeli town is in fact terrorism.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  7. #97
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    I think CR was trying to point out that indiscriminately firing rockets into israeli town is in fact terrorism.
    Agreed.

    They should be aimed.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  8. #98
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Between the Mountain and the Sound
    Posts
    11,074
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Argh. For the second time today the board ate a reply of mine by logging out in between me starting a response and posting it.

    So he's the condensed version:
    So you are saying the Palestinians have a right to kill IDF soldiers in Gaza because it is self-defense?
    No, only that fighting a military force is not terrorism.

    I don't support the targeting the of civilians. I think the Palestinians should target the Israeli military and government, not Israeli civilians.

    And yes, I do support the Palestinian people.
    That's like saying you support a football team but not the playing of football. Almost everything the Palestinian 'leadership' does is terrorism.

    You continue to imply that I support terrorism. I think in the interest of fair play you either quote me as saying such a thing or refrain from saying it.
    No, only that you will always give excuses for it, as exemplified in your next quote:
    However the Israelis can stop the brutal subjugation and other terrorist acts and begin the transition to a more peaceful era
    You also say both sides could end it, but seem to think Israel is evil while Palestinians deserve your support. The Palestinians are the ones who actively target civilians, though.

    And what would happen if Israel pulled out of the West Bank and Gaza and opened the borders? Do you think Hamas would suddenly become peaceful and forget their goal of destroying Israel? Do you think the Palestinians would not send suicide bombers to attack Israeli civilians, as they did before?

    Nor do I think a Palestinian state covering the entire area of Israel and Palestine would be good for the homosexuals who might be killed for their sexuality under the Palestinian regime.

    That's a cute tagline but it doesn't mean anything other than a Palestinian should hold hands with his child while in his other hand he holds a flower all the while IDF jets are straffing his house.

    It might make for a cute poem in the Tao Tse Ching, but in real life, it's meaningless.
    And what would happen if Palestinians held flowers while Israelis attacked? That was what the civil rights movement in the US did, and it worked for them. In fact, anything would work better for the Palestinians because even with all their attempted terrorism they fail miserably at achieving their goals.

    Since basically all the Palestinian 'resistance' is terrorist acts, why not support a cessation of their violent resistance? Israel would be forced to at least slowly loosen their grip if the Palestinians were peaceful. And progress towards peace might actually be made.

    The Palestinians have a choice; to be ruled by their hatred or to make a better life for their children.


    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  9. #99
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    Agreed.

    They should be aimed.
    Ow! If that's supposed to be not supporting terrorism you are doing it all wrong imho

    edit: may have misunderstood your post, sorry if so
    Last edited by Fragony; 01-31-2011 at 02:38.

  10. #100
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Argh. For the second time today the board ate a reply of mine by logging out in between me starting a response and posting it.
    Been there - done that. Very frustrating. It's happened so often on several boards that I copy the text of my post before posting if it's longer than a single sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    No, only that fighting a military force is not terrorism.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    That's like saying you support a football team but not the playing of football. Almost everything the Palestinian 'leadership' does is terrorism.
    I don't think I have spoken of the Palestinian leadership. I speak of the people.

    Also, the actions that you describe as terrorism, I believe, are temporary in that as circumstances change, so will the nature of those actions. Nelson Mandela was a dangerous terrorist and spent 26 years in prison. Look at him now, Ghandi reborn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    No, only that you will always give excuses for it, as exemplified in your next quote:
    I will say it again: I never once said I supported terrorism or the targeting of civilians.

    So unless you are looking to have this conversation degrade into an entire series of false accusations, perhaps you might want to reconsider your choice of words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    You also say both sides could end it, but seem to think Israel is evil while Palestinians deserve your support. The Palestinians are the ones who actively target civilians, though.
    As Israel has killed far, far more civilans than the Palestinans ever have, I would be inclined to say, then, that the IDF is either directly targeting civilians or are simply so incompetant in the use of their weapons that they are hitting everything and everyone except who they are shooting at. Take your pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    And what would happen if Israel pulled out of the West Bank and Gaza and opened the borders? Do you think Hamas would suddenly become peaceful and forget their goal of destroying Israel? Do you think the Palestinians would not send suicide bombers to attack Israeli civilians, as they did before?
    Isreal taking the jackboot off the neck of the Palestinians and allowing them actual freedom is a complete game changer. If the Palestinians were free, really free, and continued to attack the Israelis, I would be the first person to say Isreal should drop a great big bomb on Gaza.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Nor do I think a Palestinian state covering the entire area of Israel and Palestine would be good for the homosexuals who might be killed for their sexuality under the Palestinian regime.
    Yeah... put on hot pants and a pink t-shirt and go for a walk through an orthodox neighbourhood in Israel. See how many rocks bounce on your head on that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    And what would happen if Palestinians held flowers while Israelis attacked? That was what the civil rights movement in the US did, and it worked for them. In fact, anything would work better for the Palestinians because even with all their attempted terrorism they fail miserably at achieving their goals.
    I guess the palestinians have more George Washington than Ghandi in their blood.

    Besides, even if the Palestinians didn't throw a single rock for a whole year, they would still have the Isreali jackboot on their necks. The Isrealis don't subjugate the Palestinians because they have to, they subjugate them because they want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Since basically all the Palestinian 'resistance' is terrorist acts, why not support a cessation of their violent resistance? Israel would be forced to at least slowly loosen their grip if the Palestinians were peaceful. And progress towards peace might actually be made.
    I support an increase in their violent resistence. I just want that violence targeted with more discretion. I don't think people who enslave others, who murder others, and who torture others should be met with flowers.

    As I said, the Isrealis don't subjugate the Palestinians because they have to, they subjugate them because they want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    The Palestinians have a choice; to be ruled by their hatred or to make a better life for their children.
    Yeah, that might sound great on Oprah, but in real life where the Israelis will murder youf if you try to bring food and medicine to suffering people, those flowery words come off a bit... weak.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  11. #101
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    They will always have a jackboot in their neck as they are just a tool, Hamas is getting softer et voila! presto the IJ

  12. #102
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Between the Mountain and the Sound
    Posts
    11,074
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    I will say it again: I never once said I supported terrorism or the targeting of civilians.

    So unless you are looking to have this conversation degrade into an entire series of false accusations, perhaps you might want to reconsider your choice of words.
    I'm not saying you support terrorism, or that offering excuses is the same thing as supporting it.

    As Israel has killed far, far more civilans than the Palestinans ever have, I would be inclined to say, then, that the IDF is either directly targeting civilians or are simply so incompetant in the use of their weapons that they are hitting everything and everyone except who they are shooting at. Take your pick.
    Probably a mix of more powerful weapons, incompetence, and the fact that the Palestinian terrorists they target live among civilians, not on army bases.

    Yeah... put on hot pants and a pink t-shirt and go for a walk through an orthodox neighbourhood in Israel. See how many rocks bounce on your head on that one.
    Indeed. But thrown rocks are different from regime supported killings, and Orthodox neighborhoods make up only part of Israel.

    Besides, even if the Palestinians didn't throw a single rock for a whole year, they would still have the Isreali jackboot on their necks. The Isrealis don't subjugate the Palestinians because they have to, they subjugate them because they want to.
    They want to? They want a constant state of strife? I find that hard to believe.

    I support an increase in their violent resistence. I just want that violence targeted with more discretion. I don't think people who enslave others, who murder others, and who torture others should be met with flowers.
    And I don't think the bigots and racists who denied Black people their God-given rights should have been met with non-violence.

    But that approach worked. It showed the righteousness of the civil-rights movement, and the barbarity of the bigots.

    The violent resistance by Palestinians accomplishes nothing. Violence targeted at the IDF will accomplish nothing, because the Palestinian leadership is incapable of attacking the IDF in any significant way.

    Yeah, that might sound great on Oprah, but in real life where the Israelis will murder youf if you try to bring food and medicine to suffering people, those flowery words come off a bit... weak.
    Surely you aren't referring to that 'aid ship flotilla' which turned out to be a bunch of activists looking to provoke Israel and waiting to ambush the IDF forces once they boarded.

    I'm not saying non-violent resistance is easy. But the Palestinians haven't tried it. But Israel could not continue if the world saw them really murdering people just trying to deliver food and medicine.

    The words aren't weak. To follow through on them would, in fact, require great strength of character.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  13. #103
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    I'm not saying you support terrorism, or that offering excuses is the same thing as supporting it.
    Well, if that is the road we are going to travel then I could say you excuse the murder of Palestinian children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Indeed. But thrown rocks are different from regime supported killings, and Orthodox neighborhoods make up only part of Israel.
    And yet Israel conducts regime supported killings and they have no-go neighbourhoods for homosexuals. Hmmmm... that looks pretty bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    They want to? They want a constant state of strife? I find that hard to believe.
    It works to their advantage. They get to play their decades-long victim routine, and they hide behind that as an excuse to (continue to) steal land and resources from the Palestinians. Treat the Palestinians like animals in the hopes they behave like animals because no one cares what you do to animals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    And I don't think the bigots and racists who denied Black people their God-given rights should have been met with non-violence.

    But that approach worked. It showed the righteousness of the civil-rights movement, and the barbarity of the bigots.
    In that case the US bigots were in the minority. The Palestinians have to face Israel and the US and Canada and all the other puppet countries that toe the Israeli line no matter what Israel does. That's a big enemy for the Palestinians to go toe to toe with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    The violent resistance by Palestinians accomplishes nothing. Violence targeted at the IDF will accomplish nothing, because the Palestinian leadership is incapable of attacking the IDF in any significant way.
    Better than just sitting back and letting them murder people and keep the rest imprisoned for life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Surely you aren't referring to that 'aid ship flotilla' which turned out to be a bunch of activists looking to provoke Israel and waiting to ambush the IDF forces once they boarded.
    Bringing food and medicine to suffering people. Such a provocation!

    I wonder if I'll be shot for donating canned soup to the local food bank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    I'm not saying non-violent resistance is easy. But the Palestinians haven't tried it. But Israel could not continue if the world saw them really murdering people just trying to deliver food and medicine.
    Isreal has been murdering innocent people for decades. But since the US and Canadian government's noses are so far up Israel's keester, Isreal gets away with murder because our idiot governments back Israel up no matter who they kill.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  14. #104
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Albion
    Posts
    15,930
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    Well, if that is the road we are going to travel then I could say you excuse the murder of Palestinian children.
    No.

    And yet Israel conducts regime supported killings and they have no-go neighbourhoods for homosexuals. Hmmmm... that looks pretty bad.
    No. But I heard 'stone a homosexual' is a Palestinian favourite. Palestine is far more backwards than Israel is by a mile so your comments are pretty redundant.

    It works to their advantage. They get to play their decades-long victim routine, and they hide behind that as an excuse to (continue to) steal land and resources from the Palestinians. Treat the Palestinians like animals in the hopes they behave like animals because no one cares what you do to animals.
    No.

    In that case the US bigots were in the minority. The Palestinians have to face Israel and the US and Canada and all the other puppet countries that toe the Israeli line no matter what Israel does. That's a big enemy for the Palestinians to go toe to toe with.
    No. Israel has to face the other countries in the region who want to wipe Israel "off the face of the world", it is a good thing that more enlightened nations are able to support Israel.

    Better than just sitting back and letting them murder people and keep the rest imprisoned for life.
    No. Because I thought you was meant to be commenting on Israel and not Hamas here?

    Bringing food and medicine to suffering people. Such a provocation!

    I wonder if I'll be shot for donating canned soup to the local food bank.
    No. The whole 'aid' was a publicity stunt and they were carrying weapons and illegal contraband. Even a BBC (who is pro-Palestinian if anything) during a Panorama investigation revealed this. The whole thing was a plot to discredit Israel.

    Isreal has been murdering innocent people for decades. But since the US and Canadian government's noses are so far up Israel's keester, Isreal gets away with murder because our idiot governments back Israel up no matter who they kill.
    No. Because you are simply just talking nonsense.

    You are clearly not knowing what you are talking about and there is no 'debate' when you just regurgitate nonsense. On the other-hand, there are posters here with "more of a clue" because they actually been to Palestine and Israel first-hand and actually knows what is going on more indepth. I have visited Palestine and Israel, I do know what the conditions there are like. Things were actually far better off for the Palestinians before they turned to terrorism. Palestinian used to be the bulk of the labour force in Israel, now Israeli's have to look towards the Far-east like the Philippines for immigrant labour. The Israel has valid justification for the territory and even attempted to please the Palestinian and Arabian nations. however, they are unwilling to ensure security and that is something Israel wants, due to the muslim-backed terrorism in the area.
    Last edited by Beskar; 02-01-2011 at 21:36.
    Days since the Apocalypse began
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."

  15. #105
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    No.
    Yes. And I don't think I was talking to you anyway, though I always enjoy your posts. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    No. But I heard 'stone a homosexual' is a Palestinian favourite. Palestine is far more backwards than Israel is by a mile so your comments are pretty redundant.
    Yes. And there are similar Jewish religious quotes like the one you used. And there are parts of Israeli society where women's rights are stone age to say the least. So "backwards" is everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    No.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    No. Israel has to face the other countries in the region who want to wipe Israel "off the face of the world", it is a good thing that more enlightened nations are able to support Israel.
    Yes. Isreal has massive support and uses every opportunity, through coercion, to make sure that support is loud and generous. The myth of Israeli fragility is a myth used, to good effect, as camouflage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    No. Because I thought you was meant to be commenting on Israel and not Hamas here?
    Yes. I was commenting on the inhuman brutality of the Israelis towards the Palestinians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    No. The whole 'aid' was a publicity stunt and they were carrying weapons and illegal contraband. Even a BBC (who is pro-Palestinian if anything) during a Panorama investigation revealed this. The whole thing was a plot to discredit Israel.
    Yes. People were ambushed and murdered by Israeli forces for the crime of bringing food and medicine to suffering people.It's as simple as that. Might as well blame Martin Luther King for being beaten while marching for civil rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    No. Because you are simply just talking nonsense.
    Yes. I am speaking the truth. You may not want to hear it, but I cannot help that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    You are clearly not knowing what you are talking about and there is no 'debate' when you just regurgitate nonsense. On the other-hand, there are posters here with "more of a clue" because they actually been to Palestine and Israel first-hand and actually knows what is going on more indepth. I have visited Palestine and Israel, I do know what the conditions there are like. Things were actually far better off for the Palestinians before they turned to terrorism. Palestinian used to be the bulk of the labour force in Israel, now Israeli's have to look towards the Far-east like the Philippines for immigrant labour. The Israel has valid justification for the territory and even attempted to please the Palestinian and Arabian nations. however, they are unwilling to ensure security and that is something Israel wants, due to the muslim-backed terrorism in the area.
    And all this time I thought it was you regurgitating nonsense. ;)

    The situation is as clear as the summer sun; a nuclear superpower aided and abetted by the world's superpower, is keeping an entire people locked up and beaten down under the most brutal and inhumane conditions. Israel can pump out all the PR and excuses it wants, but in the end it is guilty of running concentration camps and violating the human rights of millions with illegal detentions, torture, theft, and murder. Candy coat it all you want, Isreal is guilty as sin.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  16. #106
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Albion
    Posts
    15,930
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    Yes. People were ambushed and murdered by Israeli forces for the crime of bringing food and medicine to suffering people.It's as simple as that. Might as well blame Martin Luther King for being beaten while marching for civil rights.
    Hahah, no they didn't. Israeli forces were ambushed and were shot at by "Peaceful Protestors", which forced the Israeli to completely change tactics and end up fighting back.

    Yes. I am speaking the truth. You may not want to hear it, but I cannot help that.
    No, you are not saying the truth at all and it is nothing to do with me hearing it. Infact, I used to have a position similar to yours until I visited Palestine myself and actually discovered the truths about the situation, ask the other users here about that. I am not "deaf" to anything, I realized I was wrong and changed opinion.

    The situation is as clear as the summer sun; a nuclear superpower aided and abetted by the world's superpower, is keeping an entire people locked up and beaten down under the most brutal and inhumane conditions.
    Except they are not locked up and beaten down under the most brutal and inhumane conditions. I have been there, spoken and walked with Palestinians there, while you are sat in your armchair in Canada being spoonfed biased information.

    Israel can pump out all the PR and excuses it wants, but in the end it is guilty of running concentration camps and violating the human rights of millions with illegal detentions, torture, theft, and murder. Candy coat it all you want, Isreal is guilty as sin.
    Israel is no knight in shining armour and I have never said that, but it is definitely the lesser of the two evils.
    Last edited by Beskar; 02-02-2011 at 00:15.
    Days since the Apocalypse began
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."

  17. #107
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Hahah, no they didn't. Israeli forces were ambushed and were shot at by "Peaceful Protestors", which forced the Israeli to completely change tactics and end up fighting back.
    Change tactics? You mean the heavily armed Israeli soldiers who conducted a surprise helicopter attack on that boat went there with love in their hearts and then, seeing that some people won't put up with their Gestapo tactics, had to - wait for it - "change tactics", and the soldiers actually had to use the weapons they brought with them?

    How terrible for those poor soldiers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    No, you are not saying the truth at all and it is nothing to do with me hearing it. Infact, I used to have a position similar to yours until I visited Palestine myself and actually discovered the truths about the situation, ask the other users here about that. I am not "deaf" to anything, I realized I was wrong and changed opinion.
    And you will realize once more that you are wrong and change your opinion again, that's the beauty of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Except they are not locked up and beaten down under the most brutal and inhumane conditions. I have been there, spoken and walked with Palestinians there, while you are sat in your armchair in Canada being spoonfed biased information.
    So the decades long incarceration of the Palestinians is a myth? The thousands of innocent Palestinians killed by Israel never existed? The countless hundreds of bombed out building in Gaza aren't really there? So we're free to bring food and medicine to the Palestinians without being murdered by Israeli special forces?

    Next time your in Gaza, tell the Palestinians that. They'll be greatly relieved to hear your version of the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Israel is no knight in shining armour and I have never said that, but it is definitely the lesser of the two evils.
    The Zionists started the evil and the Israelis perpetuate it. The Palestinians are the victims of Isreal, Isreal's puppets in other countries, and of the Arab states. The Palestinians are treated worse than animals and under Israeli orders, they are told to be seen as animals as well. I ain't buying it.
    Last edited by Beirut; 02-02-2011 at 02:15.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  18. #108
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    The second fattest people of the planet get free food, free electricity, free medicine, and wish I had that much choice when looking for a 5 star holiday resort nearby. And still they can't control their need to kill. Here we would say thanks for the food, the medicine, the electricity, the pools, the huge manors

    edit: unlike Beskar I haven't been there, but I do know people from there, including ex Hamas, who do you think they are really scared of.

    You pleasantly surprise me Beskar Israel is no knight in shining armour indeed, but it really does not deserve the hate.
    Last edited by Fragony; 02-02-2011 at 10:52.

  19. #109
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    5,352

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    No, the Palestinian territories (including Gaza) is not the second fattest country in the world.
    This space intentionally left blank.

  20. #110
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Arab View Post
    No, the Palestinian territories (including Gaza) is not the second fattest country in the world.
    Nor are they a country, doesn't change that they are pretty well fed. Too well without aid they would starve. I would be infinitely be more cruel towards them then the Israeli's would ever dream of, I would simply let them to their own devices. They can't, they will die, and I couldn't care one bit. Byebye

  21. #111
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Forever adrift
    Posts
    5,958

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    And you will realize once more that you are wrong and change your opinion again, that's the beauty of it.
    ah........ the very definition of inquisitive human endeavor. intellectual inflexibility combined with ideological purity is not a happy combination.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  22. #112
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    ah........ the very definition of inquisitive human endeavor. intellectual inflexibility combined with ideological purity is not a happy combination.
    If you have any love for humanity how about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL0C2QvqIlo I'm a humanist at heart, that's why I want to kill a few

    edit, she doesn't even know her own religion, that lamb was poisened to make sure teh mo was really a prophet, and it came back to life to warn him gawd. I know that. and I'm a europian
    Last edited by Fragony; 02-02-2011 at 11:48.

  23. #113
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    The second fattest people of the planet get free food, free electricity, free medicine, and wish I had that much choice when looking for a 5 star holiday resort nearby. And still they can't control their need to kill. Here we would say thanks for the food, the medicine, the electricity, the pools, the huge manors
    And what planet might that be, dear sir?
    Unto each good man a good dog

  24. #114
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    If you have any love for humanity how about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL0C2QvqIlo I'm a humanist at heart, that's why I want to kill a few
    Here are a few more humans for you to love: The Gestapo of the Sea.

    Unto each good man a good dog

  25. #115
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    Here are a few more humans for you to love: The Gestapo of the Sea.

    Nice try, what about the Fotillas, you aren't onto me in any argument as I'd shoot them and watch them drown. Whithout feeling all that bad at all. Want to kill, fine if you do, your choice not mine but not rolling over, that is Israels take on things

  26. #116
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Nice try, what about the Fotillas, you aren't onto me in any argument as I'd shoot them and watch them drown. Whithout feeling all that bad at all. Want to kill, fine if you do, your choice not mine but not rolling over, that is Israels take on things
    What?

    That video shows the Israeli navy bullying and threatening some fishermen, they don't even attempt to board and search the ship.
    It doesn't matter where those fishermen are from, if the Navy has a problem with them being there they can board the ship, show some kind of document that says you can't fish here and then send them away.
    There is absolutely no excuse for this kind of thing they pull off in the video except that they're a bunch of trigger happy hateful .

    Israel's take on things may be not to roll over but the Palestinians have the same take on things since it has been shown again and again that Israel builds settlements in Palestinian areas, what's not to understand about the fact that that is illegal and wrong? I certainly don't want Israel to vanish but if a government starts to sanction and encourage bullying, violence and breaking laws then something is horribly wrong in that country. The same goes for every country of course, it's not like the Hamas government is any better with all the firing of rockets into cities.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  27. #117
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Nice try, what about the Fotillas, you aren't onto me in any argument as I'd shoot them and watch them drown. Whithout feeling all that bad at all. Want to kill, fine if you do, your choice not mine but not rolling over, that is Israels take on things
    So you are saying your inclination towards cold blooded murder is what puts you on the side of virtue?

    That's very Al-Queda of you.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  28. #118
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    So you are saying your inclination towards cold blooded murder is what puts you on the side of virtue?

    That's very Al-Queda of you.
    So? Screw them, haters killed np

  29. #119
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    So? Screw them, haters killed np
    Sounds to me like you are as full of hate as any of the "haters" you say should be killed. And not only do you sound like you are full of hate, but you have expressed a willingness to kill civilians for no other reason than you don't like them.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that the exact same ideological stance taken by those who dress up in C4 and go for rides on buses full of woman and children?

    Don't we have a name for those people?
    Unto each good man a good dog

  30. #120
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    Sounds to me like you are as full of hate as any of the "haters" you say should be killed. And not only do you sound like you are full of hate, but you have expressed a willingness to kill civilians for no other reason than you don't like them.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that the exact same ideological stance taken by those who dress up in C4 and go for rides on buses full of woman and children?

    Don't we have a name for those people?
    Ha, you sympathise with haters and accuse me of hate, a lack of of sympathy yes, preciously little

    edit: the transports and gas, who's idea was it anyway? Call me nazi all you want, at least I would be a relaltiively good person when compared. Hitler and the Mufti both agreed they were put on earth for a reason, there is also a reason he's still so popular in camelland. Do I hate, yes, until the molecular structure of their bones
    Last edited by Fragony; 02-02-2011 at 19:43.

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO