EB II Mechanic and M2TW AI (and other stuff)

**Ichon** · 08-16-2011, 01:47

The only solution I've seen for phalanx is a very large shield value. That way fighting to the front and blocking arrows is great, sides somewhat weaker, while the back is much more vulnerable. Of course its hard to do that and stay consistent if you are trying to make stats follow some rules but sometimes the effect trumps the consistency- at least I think so. Not sure how the EB team will do it. I can think maybe HP could be used but HP and effective against armor are difficult to balance since they don't scale as well as other stats.

I've recently played around a bit with different stats helping test some mods and it can be interesting results. IE- 1 HP unit vs 2 HP is very stack difference and makes the rest of the states very secondary. However 2 to 3 HP or more improves that alot but does still make balancing difficult as to make the battles not take forever it requires some large offensive stats and is basically a huge amount of work since it starts to make armor and some other things relatively less important. So to model skirmishers without much armor or a shield requires 4 HP while high armor elites with high defense skill and a shield might get 3 HP and then the skirmishers don't die to some things so quickly but get them into melee with that elite unit and even with much lower stats they do a bit too well just because of the 1 extra HP.

**antisocialmunky** · 08-16-2011, 14:41

I could see the shield stuff but the main issue is attacking from behind because men in RTW/M2 engine just kinda turn and then the shield value applies and poos all over the AP trait. Of course we haven't really seen the phalanx yet (Macedon Preview Plz?) so its too early to judge. Is it not possible to just increase the poke animation fast enough that people get poked away like in RTW?

**Titus Marcellus Scato** · 08-17-2011, 11:50

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Is it not possible to just increase the poke animation fast enough that people get poked away like in RTW?

Pokepokepokepokepokepokepokepokepokepokepoke...... it's a poke phalanx! ;)

**Arjos** · 08-16-2011, 15:07

Originally Posted by Ichon

The only solution I've seen for phalanx is a very large shield value. That way fighting to the front and blocking arrows is great, sides somewhat weaker, while the back is much more vulnerable.

This could work if they wouldn't turn to face the enemy even if engaged, not to mention the switch to secondary weapons...
Maybe a solution is to have the AI with phalanxes in guard mode, and the player should avoid exploiting that XD

**Centurio Nixalsverdrus** · 08-17-2011, 00:06

Originally Posted by Arjos

Maybe a solution is to have the AI with phalanxes in guard mode, and the player should avoid exploiting that XD

I always leave my phalanxes in guard mode since they just behave to odd if you let them loose. That said I'm an old guard-moder anyway hehe. I would definitely welcome the AI using guard mode.

**Gustave** · 08-17-2011, 11:23

Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

I always leave my phalanxes in guard mode since they just behave to odd if you let them loose. That said I'm an old guard-moder anyway hehe. I would definitely welcome the AI using guard mode.

They are in guard mode by default, so the AI will use it.

We'll probably remove the swords an give a very low attack value to the spears (1 or 2). Many mods did that, third age TW for exemple. It's actually not so bad.

**Arjos** · 08-17-2011, 11:54

Originally Posted by Gustave

They are in guard mode by default, so the AI will use it.

We'll probably remove the swords an give a very low attack value to the spears (1 or 2). Many mods did that, third age TW for exemple. It's actually not so bad.

The axes as secondary were very useful, pitty to lose them :P

**Titus Marcellus Scato** · 08-17-2011, 15:30

Originally Posted by Arjos

The axes as secondary were very useful, pitty to lose them :P

Yes, that is a problem. Phalanxes will be even less useful in flanking maneuvers and in towns. But in a way it's good, getting away from town battles is good.

**LusitanianWolf** · 08-17-2011, 15:35

Originally Posted by Titus Marcellus Scato

Yes, that is a problem. Phalanxes will be even less useful in flanking maneuvers and in towns. But in a way it's good, getting away from town battles is good.

A wall of pikes with flanks protected by walls? Thats how I defended towns from entire stacks with just 3 units of hoplites in vanilla. Less usefull where? =P
Maybe less versatile but thats ok at least for me :P Anything is best than having them kinda like the Iphikratous Hoplitai in EB 1.2, phalanx only the name and when standing still in guard mode.